He's Just Not That Into You with Anna LaMadrid

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Anna LaMadrid are just not that into He's Just Not That Into You.

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in,
best start changing it with the beck del Cast. A
word of advice, Jamie, Yeah, if a movie makes sweeping

(00:22):
and reductive generalizations about gender and relationships, it's just not
that good of a movie. The end. Okay, anyway, Sorry,
I can't hear you. I've been locked in a closet
by Bradley Cooper. Actually, could you speak up? I'm trapped

(00:43):
in Bradley Cooper's office closet. There. Oh, here we go,
Here we go. Welcome to the Beck Dol Cast. My
name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Drante, and
today we're broadcasting live from Bradley Cooper's office closet. We're
a guest. It's getting crowded, impossible to socially distance in here. Yes. Uh,

(01:06):
this is our episode about He's just not that into you.
This is our podcast about looking at movies through an
intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel tests simply as a
jumping off point. And Jamie, I've i forgot what was

(01:26):
I will allow me. Let me ask Alison Bechtel. She's
actually in here too. I'm sorry before I say with
the backlasures I had, I think I just like ended
up just my soul was flying out of my body
when I was watching this movie and it was like,
you know, I was like watching myself watch the movie
from above, and it would have made me laugh so hard.

(01:49):
If Scarlett Johanson when she was being pushed into a
closet by Bradley Cooper, um, if there was like just
a skeleton in there from from another woman who advent
through the same thing, and then maybe he forgot and
then she you know, and this happened in like two
thousand two, and then he's like, oh my god, I forgot.
I pushed Jodie Foster into that closet seven years ago

(02:10):
and she never got out. The Bechtel test is a
media metric, as you said it for our purposes. It
requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names
speak to each other about something other than a man
for two lines of dialogue. We'll see, we'll see how

(02:33):
it goes, you know, and I guess you're going into
this time you know it's not. It's not a perfect metric,
you know, it's it's not if feminist text just because
it passes the Bechtel test, as we know, not saying
that for any protarget want to reason anyways, that is
the Bechtel test. This is the Bechtel Cast and we
have an amazing guest with us today. Yes, welcome to

(02:55):
the closet. She's an actor. You've seen her on Vida
Love Victor, Call Your Mother, and she is the founder
of Put Me On Self Tape, which is a self
tape and audition coaching studio in l A. It's Anna
La Madrid. Hello. I'm excited to be in the closet,

(03:16):
skin hat, but I'm here for it. Bradley is coming
back any second now, not to worry any time. And
I'm gonna walk out with my red Neglija and not
put my dress on while they're having sex. Two seconds
after Jennifer Connelly left, Like, wouldn't she not realize that
someone is kind? Also like they're going to run each

(03:37):
other in the elevator, right, yeah, yeah, Jennifer Connelly like
is that my husband? It's not my husband's seed. But
I'm also like girl put on your dress. Everybody in
the office is going to know we need we needed.

(03:57):
I just want to have a talk with every character
in this movie about uh, learning to love themselves. Yeah. Good,
so much this I have to say, like as awful
as all of these like ensemble movies of this era are,
because it's also like whatever, I would include this in
the expanded universe of Valentine's Day and New Year's Even

(04:20):
and they're all so bad. But it is. It is
kind of like Ben Affleck isn't in this movie for
a full hour. He just he just disappears, he goes away.
He's not about He's like he gets lost at sea.
Maybe we don't know. I mean one would hope it's
just like a nightmare. It's a nightmare. But um, but

(04:41):
I was very fully um engaged triggered activated fight or
flight response. Um, My fight or flight response was fully
activated by this movie. But let's talk about our personal histories. Anna,
what is your history with this cinematic text? Um, you know,
I remember watching it when it first came out, and UM,

(05:04):
I guess I've, like many of us, have been fallen
trapped into finding romantic comedies um enjoyable. When I was
ignorant and didn't know any better. Um, it was nice.
You know. One of the things that I do for
fun sometimes is I try to watch eighties movies and
then see how they hold up. Most of them don't. Um.

(05:25):
I haven't done this for like early odts movies. So
this was kind of like a revelation to me because
I'm like, holy sh it, there's so much toxic like masculinity,
toxic positivity, like are these girls actually really your friends?
Like yeah, so, um yeah, that's my relationship to it.

(05:46):
I can't believe that I enjoyed it and kind of
normalized these narratives in my head. I mean, two, it's
so depressingly like still feels too recent to would be like, wow,
we really we really did not question all that much.
The only the only thing that felt commonly accepted was

(06:07):
that the movie was bad, but the messaging kind of
wasn't up for debate. I don't know, Caitlin, what's your
history with this movie? Oh gosh, well, I slash book.
So I watched the movie some amount of years after
it came out and promptly forgot everything about it because

(06:28):
when I rewatched it to prep for this, I was
like well, I didn't remember that there were four thousand
Jennifers in this movie. I didn't remember Jennifer any of
the I love when it scenes where it's Jennifer and Jennifer,
You're like, right, my head hurt. I'm just like, where's
Jennifer Lopez? If you're going to get the romcom jen
Jennifer's in there, at least then we would have intersectional right, yes,

(06:52):
because where are the people of color in this film
that they are on the sidelines being the game best friend? Yeah? Yeah,
I was like, literally, it's it's like anyone who is
not white and not straight is not going to be
centered in this movie for even a second. They're just
gonna be there to tell Drew Barrymore how to send
an email. Like right. So I saw the movie at

(07:16):
some point, but I did read the book when it
came out because a roommate I had in college was like, Caitlin,
you gotta read this book. It's gonna change your life.
It's like my Bible. And I was like, oh, okay.
And I didn't like I wasn't a sex in the
City watcher, Like I didn't really know what I was

(07:39):
in store for, and and I don't remember specifics now.
I obviously did not reread it recently, um, but I
just remember the general takeaways of it, which are mostly
like because the book in the movie are are are
very different in the sense that, like the book is
a self help book, the movie is narrative vignettes, but

(08:03):
the themes are all still present. And the themes of
the book are men know what they want and they're
going to go out and get it, but women shouldn't
do that. They should not call a man first, They
should not initiate contact. They should never ask a man out.
Women should wait idly buy for a man to make

(08:25):
the first move. Women should surrender any and all power
and agency and just sit around waiting for a man
to take all the initiative. And I remember in it
like again two thousand five when I read this, when
my feminism was not sophisticated or you know, not really
barely there at all many of our Yeah, I still

(08:50):
was like, this book is the most sexist, regressive piece
of ship that I've ever read in my life. So
I've hated this pretty for a long time now, And
that's my history. That also around the same time that
that book, The Rules came out good question, I would

(09:12):
guess though it feels like the same era. That sounded
very similar to where she was like if they ask
you out on a Wednesday, that's a no. And then
and it was like going around about like how you
need to make yourself be the prize and that they
have to fight for you because that's what men want
to do and that you shouldn't. So that was another book,
So I remember that being passed around my circle. Yes,

(09:35):
oh that's that's from ninety five The Rules, Time Tested
Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr Wright written by
two women. So it's two women there are. And we'll
get into this today. Sometimes women can perpetuate sexism because
I don't because question mark, because they don't love themselves,

(09:56):
internalized misogny, etcetera. My street with this movie is that
I was taken to see this movie after my first
breakup ever and it I was This movie came out
when I was I think, like a sophomore in high school.
My boyfriend who had just dumped me to play the saxophone. More. Um,

(10:22):
I was like devastated. I was a mess. I was inconsolable,
and so my friends we didn't know I knew that
it was a book, but we definitely hadn't read it.
But my my friends were like, no, we're gonna We're
gonna cheer Jamie up. And we I think that we
went into it thinking this was going to be a
movie that was like fuck men, the Sack and then

(10:43):
hopefully also the Saxophone. Um but I remember we left
very disappointed. We didn't like the movie. And at the end,
my my friend shoutout Jenny hide Uh. She apologized. She's like,
I thought that was going to cheer you up, but
I don't think it did. And I was like, that's

(11:05):
it was worth the shot. And then we went to
eye hop and that was it. Turns out that was
the medicine I needed. Pancakes. Pancakes always win, true, like
pancakes over toxic masculinity. The movie, um so that was
my And then I revisited it when it was during

(11:28):
the pandemic just to be like, is this as bad
as I remember? And I was like, oh, it's actually worse.
Um and and here we are. So I've seen this
movie several times this year. Um and and hopefully for
perhaps for the last time. You know, we don't know.
So there could be a very sinister twist. Oh god, well,

(11:52):
should I get into the recap and then we'll go
from there. Let's do it. So the movie opened on
a little boy being mean to a little girl, and
then the little girl is told that the boy was
treating her badly because he has a crush on her,
and the voiceover explains how that is a lie that

(12:13):
girls and women have been conditioned to believe. And then
this is followed by a montage of women encouraging other
women saying like, oh, when a man is ignoring you,
it's because of this, or it's you know, let's make
excuses for the guy and all this stuff, or like
you're great, he can't dump you. Like yeah, it was

(12:35):
a sampler bladder of what we were going to suffer
through for the next two hours too, because I'm like,
oh my god, how dare this movie be longer than
two hours? I am furious hours and it really felt
like more hours than two And also, the little kid

(12:56):
just wasn't mean. He physically pushed this. I'm normalizing physical
abuse too. Great. Thanks thanks for letting us know if
he hits us, that means he loves us. Yeah. So anyway,
so you have all this like this montage and this
voice over at the beginning, and then, according to the movie,
the truth of the matter is when a man is

(13:17):
not calling you or paying attention to you, or he's
being a dick to you, it means he's just not
that into you. And then so the rest of the
movie is a bunch of vignettes that are all vaguely connected.
This movie is trying to be love Actually but worse,
which is also you can go back to our episode

(13:39):
on love Actually, I don't have the mental capacity for it.
No today. Also, for this recap, I'm going to use
actors names instead of characters names because there are too
many characters and who cares what their names are. But
most of the actors are famous, so that should just
help clarify things. Okay, So we cut to Jennifer Goodwin

(14:02):
and Kevin Connolly a k from Entourage, which is probably
what I'm going to call him this whole episode. They're
on a date. She seems to be more excited about
it than he is because he is in love with
Scarlett Johansson, who is a singer slash yoga instructor. I
was like, oh, we're hitting the tropes early early Yeah,

(14:25):
who doesn't have yoga pants? By the way, and that
scene where she's teaching people's sweatpants, I'm like, you didn't
even do your research, girl, whoa you know you should
be wearing Lula Lemons or some ship. Her character, her care,
I mean everyone's character. But good lord, this whole movie. Um. Yeah,
So Scarlett Johansson meets Bradley Cooper at a supermarket. Not

(14:50):
just any Bradley Cooper though, Frosty Tips Bradley prosper Tips
pre fame pretty like super super fame Frosty Tips uber.
This was his breakout role. Guys, let's just be honest.
I mean, who could forget him leering at someone in
the grocery line iconic and it would be several years

(15:11):
later when he would become another problematic he. I have
a lot of feelings on Bradley Cooper, most of them
are not very good. Um, but again another day, when
when my when my spirit can handle it, right, Um,
Bradley and Scarlett hit it off, but oh he's married,

(15:35):
but they exchange numbers anyway. He is also friends with
Ben Affleck, who is in a long term relationship with
Jennifer Aniston and she wants to get married, but he doesn't,
and it's a it's a point of contention in their relationship.
And yep, that's pretty much the whole thing, except he
doesn't believe in it. Guys, but he's committed. He doesn't

(15:58):
believe in it. But but don't worry, she's going to
change him because that's how that's how things work. That's
she's going to fix him. I loved so that is
basically their whole story. But just I like the like
sometimes I'll just throw a little bit of like spice
at a storyline that just something else happens that you're like,
like Chris Christopherson has a heart attack and you're like, huh,

(16:18):
why is that happening? And then it's immediately resolved, and
it's like, I feel like we didn't need to give
Chris christophers In a heart attack. Perhaps it's not necessary,
but I thought it was pretty I was laughing. I
was like, what is happen? Why? It was a really
roundabout way for Jennifer Aniston to be around her like

(16:39):
in laws, like her sister's husbands and and appreciate then Yeah,
which like again very roundabout way to go, Like you
could have done that in like a much tighter, more
efficient way. Anyway, how do they filled out those two
hours though they want to the things like, I mean,
I guess that the only the Chris Christophers and plot

(17:01):
heart attack. I was cracking up because I was just like,
what is this for? Like, you know, they're not going
to kill him, so what's happening? I messy? Messy. Meanwhile,
in the movie, Jennifer Goodwin who works with Jennifer Aniston
and also Jennifer Connolly, so all the Jennifers work together
at the same company. You can only what is their job?

(17:24):
They have never all they talk about is that one
nutmet copy, but like, who's the client? Are they? All
they do is sit around and get paid to talk
about guys the entire day. I'm like, wow, I want
to work in that office, which is also wild because
I'm like, ladies, this is a recession. I feel like
there would have been some positions cut if the three
of you are all trying to write one paragraph about

(17:47):
Nutmeg for several months. It just seems seems like, you know,
in the middle of the talk of a pitch meeting,
no stakes, where they're like, we just need to get
him in the same room, and women do be having
jobs these days, so Nutmeg, Yeah, and it's advertising. That's cool, right,
That's something women can do. It's actually the reason why

(18:10):
I studied advertising. I'm not gonna lie that was my
undergrad degree, but because I saw, like the mom on
Who's the Boss was an advertising like Amanda Woodard from
Meller's Place was in advertising. So I'm like, oh, that's
what women do. We do advertising. That's why I'm a journalist,
art curator. Slash there sash she owned a bakery slash Bakery,

(18:34):
a struggling bakery owner. Oh gosh, okay. So Jennifer Goodwin
is waiting to hear from E from Entourage, and when
she doesn't, she decides to go to a bar where
she knows he hangs out a k a stock him
and there she meets a bartender, Justin Long, who is

(18:58):
E from Entourages friend, roommate, I don't know, friend who
like just walks into his house unannounced. I'm like, yeah,
I'm mostly yeah. I was like, I was like, are
they roommates? Because I'm like, oh, you at keys? Or
does he just leave his door open? I was really
confused about Justin Long's character. I mean, first of all,

(19:20):
we've done the definitive Justin rankings before, and we as
a podcast take the stance that Justin Bartha is better
than Justin Long. So whenever I see Justin Long, I
think should have been Justin Bartham. That alone was distracting,
but on top of that, his his life was confusing
because it was like he's a bartender. But then he

(19:41):
was also seen in a large office at one point
that was his house. What everybody's house has like huge loss.
I'm like, where are you living? And what is the rent? Yeah,
everyone is is very wealthy and very wealthy, like his
parents paid for that house for sure, I mean, and
it's also they they have to keep reminding you you're

(20:02):
in Baltimore because there's no visual indication that you're in Baltimore.
And also it's like, oh it's Baltimore. That's like, but
like it's all rich white people in Baltimore with gigantic holms,
and it's like, how why stop confusing? So Justin Long

(20:22):
is telling Jennifer Goodwin, my roommate slash friend or some
guy who sometimes comes over e from entourage isn't gonna
call you because he's just not that into you. Meanwhile,
Scarlett Johansson, who is friends with Drew Barrymore by the way,

(20:42):
calls Bradley Cooper, who is married to Jennifer Connelly. You
see how all the threads are connecting. It's brilliant. The
payoff is so like every time I was like, oh,
like it was just I guess I know joy. No
joy does not spark joy for me. So Bradley Cooper

(21:05):
decides it will be okay and perfectly harmless to help
Scarlet with her music career. Is he a manager or
a lawyer? Right, we don't know, but somebody in his
office is going to help her. Yeah, but we don't
know any more than that. Drew Barrymore can't figure out
how to send an email for the whole movie, Like
she's or it's like just like her co workers being

(21:27):
like Drew Barrymore use my Space, and she's like, it's
so good for using Like she just she's trying to
send a message to someone that's her whole Like, what's
going on with her character besides nothing besides going to
MySpace dot com ads to eat. That's at least she

(21:48):
does one thing that's work related. What if she is
selling Nutmeg and it's all connected. That's it. We just
cracked it. Let's call him up right now, let's them
know that we need the sequel. Yeah, all about not Meg.
He is just that into you. That's my pitch for
the title. Um. Also, this movie was clearly written in

(22:13):
two thousand four or not two thousand nine, and the
screenplay was never updated to reflect two thousand nine technology,
because it acts like everyone still has landlines, everyone still
like leaves messages on answering machines. Nobody text messages each
other like my Space. My Space is dated. People knew

(22:34):
how to send an email by two thousand and nine,
Like they're just all this. Yeah, it's almost like, yeah,
it's so. I mean, the book was published in two
thousand four or two thousand five, I think, and then
the movie comes out in two thousand nine. But whoever
was writing these things, we're using technology from like two

(22:55):
thousand one, and I'm just like this. I was so frustrated. Anyway, Okay,
So Bradley Cooper is like, yeah, I'm gonna help Scarlet
with her music career, and then they start getting closer
and more flirty, and eventually they start sleeping together. And
then he lies to his wife Jennifer Connelly about it.

(23:19):
He's actively gaslighting her over in Jennifer Aniston Land. She
leaves Ben Affleck because he refuses to marry her, so
now she's single. And meanwhile, Jennifer Goodwin keeps calling Justin
Long and asking for more dating advice, and it seems

(23:41):
like maybe he's starting to like her, and he even
invites her to a party he's throwing, which she interprets
as him liking her, but then he's like, no, you
misread this. You've silly fool and she's like, well, at
least I put myself out there, you're gonna be alone forever,
and then she storms out, God, that's so messy. That was.

(24:04):
That was the moment of empowerment. Guys, What a feminist
text that was. That was when she stood up for herself.
That was I was like, oh, we were really supposed
to be cheering when I was like, I can't stand
both of you. You guys deserve each other. Yeah, true,
Like I hope you take yourselves off the market so

(24:26):
no one else has to deal with you. And then meanwhile,
Bradley Cooper finally does tell Jennifer Connolly that he cheated
on her, and she's upset at first, but then she's like,
wait a minute, I'm partly to blame. So she goes
to his office to try to like re ignite their

(24:46):
fire and to have sex with him, but oh, Scarlett
Johansson was already there and she's hiding in the closet
here with us high Scarlet, what's up. So she comes
back out afterwards and she's like, we're done, and she
breaks up with him, and then she goes back to
E from Entourage because they have this kind of like

(25:08):
on again, off again casual thing, but she doesn't sleep
with him anymore. Like she goes to him when she
needs to boost exactly, yeah, which is not a nice
thing to do, but I was like, oh why, I
understand this dynamic, right, So they like then they kind

(25:28):
of get together for a little while, but then she's like,
wait a minute, this guy was an Entourage I don't
like him. Gross, and so she breaks up with him,
and then Justin Long is starting to realize that he
does like Jennifer Goodwin, and then the movie ends with
Jennifer Goodwin and Justin Long getting together. Jennifer Aniston and

(25:50):
Ben Affleck getting back together because she realizes that she
doesn't need to be married after all. But then he
proposes anyway, and then they get married. Sorry, one of
the most one of the all time dufist proposals I've
ever seen committed to film. He put the ring in
his pants cargo, his disgusting cargo, and then she and

(26:16):
I was like, I was really hoping that that would happen,
and then Jennifer Anderson would be like, wait a second,
I'm leaving, like, oh, just the laziest look so gross.
It was horrifying. And then Jennifer Connelly and Bradley Cooper

(26:37):
split up, and then also Eat from Entourage hits it
off with Drew Barrymore and that is how everything concludes.
Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
to discuss, and we're back, Uh, well where should we? Okay?

(27:06):
I wanna I can see how I can kind of Okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna try to phrase this carefully, but
I can see how some of the things that get
examined in this movie or start to be examined, could

(27:27):
be empowering for some people because there are we see
examples of like women, you know, making their needs known,
their needs and once known in a relationship, you see
challenging of men's behavior, especially when they're being dismissive of
women's feelings. There's some voice over at the end where

(27:51):
Jennifer Goodwin's like, maybe a happy ending doesn't have to
include a guy. Maybe it's just you know, you on
your own, picking up the pieces and and freeing yourself
up for something better in the future. But the movie
only very barely scratches the surface of any of these things,
and um is terrible the rest of the time because,

(28:14):
like they're there are opportunities in this movie to explore
like why men mistreat or are disinterested in women, but
they really don't even touch on that. It's just like, well,
men are just look, I don't know, men are boys
will be boys. I mean there is an article that

(28:37):
I read, God, I'd probably around that was around the
time this movie came out that was titled like if
it's not a hell, yes it's a no, And it
was all and and it kind of mirrors what Justin
Long is saying, right, like, when men are actually interested,
they will show up in the ways like you don't
have to houm them to call you, they just naturally will.

(29:00):
And I remember reading that article and being like, that's
a good compass for me, because I think we do
hear a lot of narrative of like, let's excuse behavior
and make it about So in some ways I do
agree with what Justin is saying, like when guys are interested,
it doesn't mean that I can't approach a guy if
I'm interested, but it has to be reciprocal and I

(29:21):
can't be the one driving. So I do agree with that.
But there's a lot of everybody in this film needs therapy, yes, desperately,
like y'all everybody needs therapy. There's a lot of anxious
avoidant type attachment style. There's a lot of codependency. There's
a lot of lack of boundaries, and none of that

(29:43):
is addressed. Yeah, and I do agree it's it's so
it feels like a half step towards something that I
would agree with, where it's like, you know, I'm very
pro you know, people not playing games with each other
and be direct about how they feel. And I do
think that there there is kind of this tendency of

(30:05):
like I mean, it's it's introduced and like lightly criticized
the immediately walked back in the opening scene of the
movie where it's like if a boy is mean to you,
that means he likes you, which is one of the
largest fallacies that is uh spread to usually young girls.
And I think that it is like encouraging people, like
people of all genders from a young age to be

(30:27):
direct and encouraging when you are in the receiving end
of that to take people at their word. Um, and like,
if someone is being cruel to me, there is no
world in which you should you know, view that as
they like me and I should want to engage with
them further, Like that is such a toxic idea, and
so it's like, yeah, like like you're saying, and like

(30:49):
I do agree with justin long oh God, that sentence
to the extent that it's like, yeah, like if someone
is interested in you, they will make known. And you know,
this isn't like a mind game thing, but it just
has to go, you know, on both ends of a relationship.
Because I feel like where this movie lands is like

(31:11):
and it sounds like Caitlyn, based on what you're describing
about the book, that like men should be empowered to
be direct, whereas women need to be doing like this
calculus problem to figure it out, um, and and they're
not afforded the same amount of like emotional freedom and
directness that that men are agency. Yeah. Yeah, the movie

(31:37):
opening with this commentary about like how women are not
only programmed but like encouraged to think that if a
man is a jerk to you, it means he likes you.
And then so like challenging that notion is like totally legitimate,
but then the movie doesn't. Everything else the movie does
is just trash, so right, Like, there there are occasional

(32:01):
moments when it's I think it's Jennifer Goodwin's I think
she's supposed to be the protagonist question mark, but she
it's her. It's her voiceover saying like what a load
of crap blah blah blah, and it's like, yeah, agree,
totally agree. But then the movie does not really go
on to explore that idea in any meaningful way because

(32:21):
there's and there's also storylines that directly contradict that, because like,
if you think about Ben Affleck and Jennifer Aniston, who
I kept forgetting were never actually a real couple, it
just sounds like it was true, but it wasn't she didn't? Yeah,
were we ever so young? Butt? And then benefit was

(32:42):
him and j Loo? They're both single? Now what what? No?
They're both it's true right now? Yeah, because j Lo
and a Rod broke up. Telling me about my own people, like,
what's not on the up and up on this drama?
She just like showed her wedding ring like a few

(33:04):
months ago. Yeah, Aroon was cheating on her over Zoom
because pandemic get some fun ati here, I'm dead? How
do you cheat? How do you cheat on that woman?
How do you know? How do you change? People? Just
get bored and on zoom Triflin, All right, well I
learned something new, so so you know, benefit it's maybe

(33:26):
it's not too late. Maybe it's come back benefit part
two the sequel all that to say, you know, the
jen Andison ben Affleck storyline is all about him saying
and being direct, saying I do not want to get married,
which is like, you know, even if Jennifer Anderson disagrees
with it, like she should take him at face value.

(33:46):
There he doesn't seem like he wants to get married,
but the movie doesn't reinforce that he changes his mind
and he throws a dirty old ring into his dirty
old pants, and so that like directly contradicts what you're
told in the first seen that like, oh, you know,
when someone's being direct with you take them at their word,
which is not a bad message. But then it's not

(34:08):
always true in the movie. It's it's just because the
way women are written in this movie is that they
are generally just irrational or reactionary, or clueless or any
other number of like stereotypical negative traits associated with women.
The women are all written in these very broad stereotypes.

(34:30):
So even if Ben Affleck, who I can, I can't
believe I'm about to say this, but like, as someone
who like, for me personally, marriage is not something that
I care about doing. I don't really believe in it
as an institution for me personally. So the things that
he's saying about marriage, I was like, yeah, I agree

(34:52):
with you, Ben Affleck. Yikes, But I was like, yeah,
I see where he's coming from. It's it's a valid viewpoint.
And it's like if your partner feel is that way,
you know, it's like it's okay to feel either way.
But it's like, don't really like you're gonna come around.
I can feel it, Like that's so unhealthy. Yeah, and
it's like it's worth at least listening to and hearing
him out. But rather than Jennifer Aniston doing that, she's

(35:14):
just like, well, that obviously means that you don't even
love me, so we have to break up. And it's like,
that's not what he's saying, Like what it's The concept
of compromise in a relationship is completely absent from this movie,
which is bizarre because that is a big part of
being in a long term relationship is talking with each

(35:35):
other and sometimes finding compromises and establishing boundaries. But that
is just not where they're at. But I think again
therapy because Jennifer Aniston is being triggered by her sister's wedding,
which now has become a problem because everyone's perpetually like
her family is pressuring her to be like what are

(35:56):
you doing? It's seven years Like I'm sure if this
would have happened, don't think Jennifer would have been upset
about it. They lived together, they're sharing a home. He's
putting up a painting, like do you know what I mean?
Like he's doing housework. Yeah, So so it's like it's
not a problem until she let outside forces kind of
like dictate what her life should be and then listen

(36:20):
to those things. But then she also is like, I've
been harboring these feelings for five years, and it's like, maybe,
like again, therapy girl learned how to express herself early on.
Exactly do you think that Jennifer Anderson not being married
to Ben Affleck gave Chris Christofferson a heart attack? Is
that what set it off? Is it? He's like, oh

(36:43):
my god, seven years and then he keels over, keels over. Now.
I feel like they were probably like doing the Congo
line or something like they were going to dance, and
it was just too much. That was so out of
I didn't even rewind the scene. I'm like, because I
looked down to take a note for a second, I
looked back up and Chris Christofferson was in cortiac arrest.
I'm like, I can't, I don't, I don't acting to

(37:04):
check me out. It was so dramatic. He was like,
oh and then and then everybody rushed and I'm like,
somebody call the fucking like ambulance. They're all just like
talking over each other and no one's calling an ambulance.
It was yeah, and the music shift where was oh
there was Oh my god, there's so many This is

(37:24):
not related, but the mutes some of the music choices.
So the most two thousand and nine soundtrack I've ever
heard somewhere only we know playing. I was like, oh
that was that was a moment my morning jacket. Karen
Bailey Ray I was like, wow, sophomore year was what
a time. Wilco like just so so much, so much.

(37:49):
It takes you back to a terrible time. Yeah, it
really takes me back to being broken up with by
a saxophone player. Thanks for nothing. I want to talk
about the toxic female relationships in this movie as well,
because it's not just men on men, but I'm like
Jennifer Connolly's toxic positivity with Jennifer Goodwin, like, at some point,

(38:11):
stop telling her he's going to call. She's like, don't worry,
he's gonna call. And Drew Barrymore, girl, you sitting there
telling this woman to go for it for a for
a married man. Yeah, it's and then you end up
hooking up with e who you know slept with Scarlet.
So I'm like, are you all friends or acquaintances. Why

(38:31):
are getting your nails done together? I would never even
like have dinner with somebody who my friend had a
relationship with. I didn't even connect that. Yeah, where is
the loyal she? They're not friends. I don't know what
that is, but they're not friends. Yeah WHOA. I also
did not catch that because I simply could not keep
track of like who knew who in which storylines. But

(38:58):
to your point in it, like these characters are just
like hurling this toxic positivity at each other, which is
like not helpful. No one's being constructive, no one is
being critical about any of their thinking or behavior. Like
it's just like, that's not what I'm like lifting up

(39:19):
other women looks like by like lying to them and
making stuff up. That's not how you do that. And
also like hold space for Jennifer Goodwin to like spin
out and then be like, hey, let's talk about how
how we can make you feel better outside of this,
you know. Yeah, it's it's the the way that this

(39:40):
movie has written. It just has such aggressively rigid views
of what a man's behavior is versus what a woman's
behavior is that sometimes it's like it's just like there's
so much cognitive dissonance in the way characters act. It
feels like sometimes, you know, the writer was like, well,

(40:01):
women be like this, so even if it doesn't like
make logical sense in the plot, even though it doesn't
make sense given this relationship, um, women be like this,
so she would probably do that. Like it's just so
binary driven to the point where it's just I was like, what, huh,
Like what there's like a female writer and a male

(40:24):
writer right on the book and on the movie. Yeah,
different teams. So I just feel like, I don't know,
I feel like the woman was like, sure, that sounds right,
do it? Or maybe well, because nobody advocated for us
in this film in the writing process. They the writers
of the movie, Abby Cone and Mark Silverstein. They seem

(40:44):
to work together pretty exclusively, and they also wrote movies
like Never Been Kissed, Valentine's Day, and How to Be Single,
So they are real connoisseurs of this very specific brand
of poo um. And then the book was written by
Greg Burnt and Liz to Chiller to Silo, who were

(41:08):
like producers slash consultants, you know, behind the scenes people
on sex in the City. So uh, and you were
mentioning this off Mike Rape before we started recording. But
there is like it's always like a little it's frustrating
to see this kind of writing with with a female
co writer. But I think it is like a pretty

(41:30):
clear example that you know, like, representation is important, but
it's not the endgame because there's a lot of internalized
misogyny y. Yeah, especially for writers who have been in
the business for a really long time. And you know,
if you start out in the eighties, that kind of mentality,
it just stays with you. And unless you really challenge

(41:51):
yourself to start seeing storytelling from a different vantage point
versus like what you're used to working, um, it's it's
really hard to move forward. So I think the right
representation matters. And you know, it's interesting because the solo
show that I wrote, the Oxy Complex, kind of mirrors
a lot of the anxiety that comes with dating, but um,

(42:14):
I bring in the scientific facts behind it, and I
feel like that misses that's completely missed in this thing.
You know, like when oxytocin gets released, when we start
forming attachments, it does feel like a high. So I
was like, yeah, Jennifer Goodwin is behaving in a way
of somebody having a flood of hormones that's just kind

(42:35):
of taken over and it does make you a little crazy, right,
But how do you mitigate that without any awareness or
like the paradox of choice that is also a scientific
fact with online dating and having so much more, so
many more options for people to date that it makes
it either a impossible to make a choice or be

(42:57):
it makes you less satisfied when you do ake a choice.
So like, in so many ways right now, we're kind
of being set up not to thrive in relationships. Yeah, yeah,
check out the show. I mean I would love to
send you guys the link just to watch it. Are
you both single? I am always single, hashtag forever single,

(43:19):
as a Zay says famously single, I am bravely I'm
bravely not single, very brave of you. I am trying
to get that affleck to marry me. It's been seven years,
and you know, we're just going to see what happens.
I think I'm going to be on the lookout for

(43:40):
those cargo pants that are going to come in the mail. Yeah.
I can't get over it. It was like I was,
It's so not even close to the worst thing that
happens in the movie. But I was like, oh, so
the disrespect she did not change him if that is
the proposal, she did not change him. Yeah, I feel
we should get into like probably like girl, I don't

(44:02):
want to move my shut out again, so here's the ring. Yeah,
he's like, I don't. I'm I'm tired of fighting because
you know, my girlfriend always be fighting me. But yeah,
I think it might be worth just kind of going
through each um relationship and just look at it more closely.
But before we do that, I wanted to Yeah, I

(44:22):
mean to your point, and about the movie not acknowledging
a lot of the reason that like people behave in
certain ways in like romantic settings, and this movie specifically
hetero romantic situations because five white hetero people, right, But then, like,

(44:45):
there's also no exploration of why do some men tend
to behave in certain ways where they are like dismissive
or they act disinterested or they mistreat women, and it
just it doesn't ever explore that at all, even though
there's a whole wide array of reasons, including but not

(45:06):
limited to good old fashioned misogyny. Well and just like
extremes like social conditioning, like that, which is also it
always is so frustrating when you see these like broad
stereotypes about gender applied as if it is like inherent
to your DNA and not largely a result of environment
and social conditioning, right, and things that like people learn

(45:30):
from the media they consume. But it's yeah, it's like
things like men tending to think that women are disposable,
men valuing women mostly for their youth and looks, men
not trusting women's feelings or don't think they need to
be bothered with, men feeling intimidated or emasculated by women
who they perceived to be smarter or more professionally successful,

(45:55):
things like that, And the movie is just like I
don't know anything about that. To my girls, can we
fix this? I mean, we can't fix this in one podcast,
Like what's going to happen to us trying for five years?
You know, Um, let's take a quick break and then
we'll come back for a more discussion and we're back. Um,

(46:22):
so we I feel is there did anyone else have
anything else to add about the Jen and Ben relationship
that was wait, which Jeffer Jeffer, and there's Jennifer Jennifer
and also don't forget Jennifer. Um, yeah, I think. I
mean there's a part where Jennifer Anderson even acknowledges like, well,

(46:44):
I've been kind of like withholding these feelings because I
didn't want to seem clingy or demanding, which like fair. Again,
oftentimes in hetero relationships, if a woman like does like
make her needs and once known she has met with
resistance and you know, accused of being needy and being

(47:06):
quote unquote hysterical. But so like the acknowledgment of that,
I was like, Okay, maybe this is going somewhere. But
then again, the way she's written is just to like
not listen to reason, just like not be willing at
all to compromise jump to really irrational conclusions. Another thing

(47:27):
I wanted to mention was Jennifer Aniston's character being single
in the movie, Like the part where she is single
after she has left ben Affleck is treated by the
people around her as like being a fate worse than death,
which is something that happens to Jennifer Annister aniston characters

(47:49):
all the time in this era of her movies. It
seems like like thirty what and then they like turned
to dust. It's ridiculous to the point where in this movie,
not one but two different cousins of hers aggressively hit
on her. Yeah, which is disgusting and like why why

(48:12):
would that be in the movie, And like, to be clear,
being pressured from friends and family members to find a
romantic partner and to be in a relationship like that
pressure is a very real thing for a lot of people.
What struck me though about this movie is like she
doesn't really do anything to challenge that. It's not presented

(48:34):
critically at all. Yeah, the movie, it seems like the
movie kind of agrees like, well, this is what you
get when you leave ben Affleck, and you just like
make that choice, Like yeah, you're everyone's gonna think you're
a loser and your cousins are gonna hit on you,
so you better change your ways and get back together
with ben Affleck. The movie is so focused on the

(48:57):
end game of like the whole audience being like, oh, well, clearly,
Jennifer innocent Ben Affleck have to get back together that
if I feel like they take every lazy writing trope
along the way to like reinforce that like foregone conclusion,
and then that means like the takeaway for so many
of these storylines is just like this bizarro, like really

(49:20):
old fashioned, like like for this one, for example, is well,
being single is the worst possible thing that could happen
to you, so you better get back together with the guys.
Let's settle baby, let's do it. And then I like
on the flip side of that, for if you're like
looking at it from ben Affleck's point of view, which

(49:42):
like I just never like ideal, but you know, but
like at the end she comes back to him, she
was willing to compromise and say like, yes, we don't
need this formal legal commitment of marriage as long as
we agree to just to be committed to each other
in this relationship, like that is fine for me. And
he's like cool, great, awesome. But then he also folds

(50:06):
and he's like, no, actually we should get married, and
I just I feel like like this would have been
a good opportunity to show on screen like a you know,
not quite as traditional of a relationship on screen, where
like people do agree to be committed to each other
without the like bonds of illegal marriage. But instead this

(50:29):
movie was like, no hetero marriage that is legally binding
is the end game and should be for everybody. So
that's what's going to be like the conclusion. Yeah, they're
almost like de dey obvious. Yeah, so I just I thought, like, again,

(50:52):
I don't know why I had any expectations about any thing,
but I was like, oh, that could have gone somewhere
interesting there. We could have seen something nuanced here. But
then the movie just makes like the most basic, uninteresting
choice every time. And here's the thing, like why I

(51:14):
find an issue with these stories. I mean, it was
two hours long, but I still feel like when you
try to take on so many narratives, like I have
no understanding what that relationship is even about, Like we
don't know the history. And maybe that's inherent in like
the structure of romantic comedies like can they ever pass
the backdel test or like you know, because they're just

(51:36):
not structured that way, Like that's not what this is
about in terms of genre. But I just feel like
I don't know how they got together why, you know what?
I mean, I need more information, but I guess that
doesn't make it dramatic. I don't know, or maybe they
just like they're like we have been affleck for forty
five minutes total, Like what are we going to do

(51:58):
this in three days so that he can go shoot
the other film? They're like put him on a boat.
They're like, wait a second, what's Chris Christopherson supposed to do? Um?
I don't know. I have a heart attack. Did Um? Yeah,
I totally agree. It's like there there is like if
you're if if they really want you to take something
away from this movie that's like applicable. Um, you need

(52:19):
to have contacts for what this relationship is. And you
really don't get it. I mean I kindly you do,
because he says he says, hey, I kind of was
talked into this marriage. I didn't feel like I was ready.
So at least we hear from his point of view,
even though it's fucked up, like perhaps stand up for
what you want and be like, no, I'm not going
to do this. Because he says, uh, no, guy actually

(52:43):
wants to get married, and when he does get married,
he's just thinking about all the women he's going to
miss out on. And I'm like, paradox of choice, I know.
And I'm like, Bradley, was it your idea or Jennifer
Connolly's idea in regards to the Frosted Tips whose idea
was that? And this? How can we um? Yeah, it's

(53:03):
like I guess you you do get like stray lines
like that. But a character that I really could have
used that background for was Jennifer Goodwin because she has
all of these, you know, very kind of clingy behaviors.
I think she's my My feeling of how she was
written was kind of this very broad stereotype of like
desperate and and there's no context for like why might

(53:29):
she be this way? What is her history? Like there's
it's stuff that you really could use, but it just
seems like the way it's written and the way it
plays out, it just plays out like a very broadly
written character of like a single woman. Yeah, because when
she comes in with the with the diary stuff, like
she's cracked out and she's like, I've gone through all
of my stuff and I'm the exception, I'm the rule.

(53:50):
I'm not the exception, you know what I mean. And
she's like gone through like this type of behavior she's
been accepting for a long time. Right, that doesn't happen
in a void. But again, I don't know that these
are movies are set up to explore those issues. It's
just like, here's the problem, let's fix it with love. Yeah. Yes,
And then where her storyline goes with Justin Long, who

(54:15):
oh my god. I absolutely loathe his characters. Such a smug,
a little asshole. What a what a piece of ship.
He spends most of the movie like either be rating
her or being like down to her a lot talks
down to her. He tells her that, oh, women love drama,

(54:36):
they feed off it, which is another again just like
large generalization, like this is how women be. And he's
like just like treating her badly, not able to realize
that he likes her until it's like almost too late,
and he's like, wait a minute, I've have been dismissive

(54:57):
of women and I and so much so that I
didn't eve even know what it feels like to like
one of them. And then she's like, that's okay, let's
kiss and be together. And I'm like, it doesn't even
ask consent, he just goes for well. But she also,
I mean it's like that that goes both ways. Yeah,
she I mean that other thing, she like jumped on him.

(55:17):
We've got two surprise kisses. You're like, wow, wow, you
guys really are the worst. But they belong together. But
there I mean, and when you put it that way, Caitlin,
that's sort of another storyline that contradicts the opening scene
of the movie because he's being really mean to her,
and then it turns out he likes her. He did
like her the whole time. Yeah, I didn't even that

(55:38):
didn't even pain for me. Of like yet another central
relationship in this movie that contradicts what the opening of
the movie says. Yeah, Well was it that line when
they were at the bar where he's like, don't get excited,
I mean like you like a puppy. Yeah, And he's like,
I feel I pity you. I feel bad for you.
And then and then she comes to the conclusion after

(55:59):
that converse nation that he's into her because she was
watching a movie. I forget what the movie is now
Mary Stuart Masterson's in it. Kind of wonderful, Yeah, and
she's like influenced by the media that she's consuming, by
the rom com and she's like, oh my god, I
had it all wrong. He does like me, and it's

(56:21):
like like, that's this is not a good yardstick to you,
and then goes full throttle. It's like, what do you
know about him? Like, you guys haven't had any conversation
except him telling you about guys that you should leave alone.
Do you know how many siblings he has? Like like nothing,
She's just like he's it for me. Yeah. He just
talks at her for for weeks. And then she was like,

(56:42):
I think I'm in love. Also that her her behavior,
I just her behavior was so confusing to me at
different points where it's like, maybe if we had some context,
this could exist in at least there's some justification. But
when when she goes to his party and she's you know,
become convinced that he likes her, she immediately defaults to

(57:02):
like cleaning up and like being the mom at a
middle school party for some reason, does all these like
You're like, huh, what the I didn't understand because she's like, oh,
he wants me to co host it with him because
we're about to be a couple, and like that's her logic,
but like the jumping to conclusions her mind map of

(57:26):
how she got there, I cannot really follow her logic.
And girl like read the room at the end of
the party. She's sitting here with garbage bags and he's
playing video games with some hot chick like I would
have left two hours ago. Yes, save yourself the aggravation.
And then and you mentioned this earlier, but like that

(57:47):
speech that she gives after she does a surprise guest
lunge just at him. Uh, then she does this thing
that I think that we were supposed to be like
standing at the AMC cheering, she says, I made his
dissect each little thing and put myself out there too much.
But at least that means I still care. And you
think you won because women are expendable to you and

(58:08):
you may not get hurt or make an ass of
yourself that way, but you don't fall in love that
way way either. You have not won. And it's like
I see where they're going with that, but it's still
such a like binary thing of like there's only one
right way to be and like it didn't didn't hit,
didn't hit for me, It was a note. It was
a note for me on the on the lesson. But

(58:29):
I also feel like, you know, as much as the
women are victims in this, the men don't get complexity either,
do you know what I mean? Like I don't know
anything about Justin Long's characters issues and why he decided
to build a wall around his life. You know, he
has a completely code. I mean, he's Jennifer Goodwin's mirror
in the way that he's like lusting over somebody who

(58:52):
clearly doesn't want to be in a relationship with him,
and you know, like he pretty much tries to bait
her with a house. Yeah, you know, he's like, I'm
only gonna talk about an ultimatum. I'm only going to
buy this if you're gonna be with me, So think
about moving in with me, not right now, but like
I and it's like, what, dude, so manipulative. Yeah, I'm

(59:15):
at least glad that she wasn't like if she would
be like, wow, what a nice gesture. Okay, let's be
together forever, and instead she's just like, no, I'm good,
I don't want any of this, goodbye forever. I was like,
I didn't appreciate that, yeah, because I would have had
a panic attack of someone. I was like, do you
want me to what? No? Yeah, but now let's talk

(59:36):
about the ironing board. Oh my gosh. Just what He's like,
that's why I want this hop because it reminds you
of your childhood home. What's get out of here your
soccer but yeah, yeah, but very good. Yeah, I mean,
and you know, we we focus on, or we tend
to focus on the podcast about like how women are
represented in movies, but like men also being written in

(01:00:00):
these very broad, binary stereotypical ways is obviously also very
harmful and not doing anyone in any favors. And it's
just like another element of the patriarchy is the way
that men are there modeling behavior as well, and women
are consuming this media. Yes, so men in this movie

(01:00:24):
are like, oh, I hate commitment and oh I hate
my wife and blah blah blah, and then women are like,
he just hates Jennifer Goodwin. He doesn't think she's hot enough.
I hate him to like, yeah, he's the worst. He's

(01:00:47):
they're all the worst through such and can we talk
about him trying to dress Okay, yes, let's talk about
how this is treated. He's doing weird, weird grow stuff.
So yeah, like we already mentioned earlier, the heteronormativity that
that is running rampant in this movie is just gross.

(01:01:10):
The whole concept of the movie. You know, it's implying, like, well,
the only relationships worth exploring our hetero one man, one
woman kind of thing. The movie does acknowledge that queer
people exist, but but only, but but only in supporting
roles in very broadly written, stereotyped ways. Yes, very much

(01:01:33):
so um and then yeah, so this subplot we're talking
about is with e from Entourage Drew Barrymore places because
she's like works in ad sales or something like that.
She places an ad for his real estate business in
like a part of the newspaper that gets a lot

(01:01:54):
of like traction from gay men, specifically because I don't
even remember what the ads are, sex like sex act.
Yeah right, And he's like kind of weirded out by
it at first, and she's like, no, you can tap
into this new clientele, so they will come gentrify the neighborhood.

(01:02:15):
Even say that. He's like, this is a neighborhood in transition.
It's like, you mean white people are coming in and
gentrifying it. Cool. Ye, So to appeal to his gay clientele,
he starts dressing differently, and of course Justin Long makes
a bunch of homophobic jokes at his expense. Him just like,

(01:02:40):
altering his appearance is just a very It's just supposed
to be a hilarious homophobic gentrification joke, like you're just like,
what the fuck two thousand nine come. And then the
queer characters who use who are either made who are

(01:03:01):
either like explicitly queer or queer coded in the case
of like Drew Barrymore's like friends, Yeah there, their office workers,
Yeah yeah. They only exist in the narrative to give
advice to straight people about their straight relationships. But also
the buyers, the couples at the at at Ease open

(01:03:24):
house they were also like and then have their two
cents about what she ease straight relationship. And then some
of the guys that Drew Barrymore works with go to
Justin Long's party and give advice to Jennifer Goodwin. So
it's like three different occasions at least of queer characters

(01:03:46):
only existing in the narrative to give straight people straight advice.
Makes add up. I mean, the in terms of representation
this movie, it would be hard to do worse then
this movie does. Everyone. I mean you can if you have,
if you have been blessed by not having seen this movie.

(01:04:09):
Take a look at the poster. It's five hundred says
white people, and and then the few people of color
we see in the movie there's first of all, there's
nothing going on there or I mean you have one
scene with um, what is the relationship there is it?
Jennifer zo. Jennifer Connelly is like they're remodeling their house

(01:04:34):
because yeah, they're gentrifier house. Oh yeah, that was problematic
for me. Yeah, which she was like, we have so
many undocumented Why why you got to call him undocumented?
A has nothing to do with this story, and you're
accusing them of smoking in your house. I mean, talk
about cringe. She was a Karen back before there was

(01:04:56):
a Karen. I'm gonna say. I was like, wow, any
if you were holding on the any sympathy for the
Jennifer Connelly character, that's where it goes all the way
out the window. Yes, in a scene where she yea,
she just like lays into Luise Goosman and like his
sty criminal misuse of Luis Guzman. Okay, So this is

(01:05:18):
another example of like a quote rom com that has
absolutely no comedy in it. There are like they're not jokes,
or if there are, they like completely fall flat. They
never laughed, no, no, but there are well, actually I
left when Chris christoffers that was a hilarious, but there's
a there are a couple of lines that Louis Goosman

(01:05:40):
says that I was like, that's actually pretty funny, and
the rest of the movie is devoid of few. But
it's just because Louise Scuzman is funny, great and funny. Yes, exactly,
they were, but it's also he's highlighting the ridiculousness. He's like,
can I go to work? Can I get back to
work now? Because I do with you, like, obviously you're
projecting your marriage is shoes on me, and either you

(01:06:00):
pay me ninety dollars an hour to be your therapist
and you let me get back to work. It's real
simple anyway, So shouts out to Luis Gusman. Yes, but yeah,
every other BIPOC character in the movie is written in
a broad stereotype, very tertiary, barely has lines. You could

(01:06:22):
take all of them out of the story in the
movie would not be any different narratively, Like it's just
because the only other representation is those two black women
kind of talking about how many people were not even
people who are not even related to the plot, Like right, yeah,
they were, like I don't know what did they say,

(01:06:42):
Like they make it seem like breaking up was my idea. Yeah,
they're they're They have like the whole speech about like
how you know when you've been dumped. They're acknowledging inception
before Christopher Nolan's inception ever even came out. Just blew
my mind. Makes you think, Um, who else do we

(01:07:09):
need to talk about? Is there any can we talk
about the fact that at the end it's so Eat
Pray Love, but like those confessionals at the end, and
Scarlett's like, I'm going on a trip to India with
my I'm like, get out of here. Girl. You're supposed
to be a struggling singer. How you can afford a
trip to India? How long are you going for? Like what?

(01:07:31):
Yoga teachers don't make that much. I know, it's like,
what what are you making to She doesn't have yoga
pants and yet she has a ton of disposable in
Yeah what and you're teaching out a why psyeah? So
I know you're not making that much money to afford
a whole sabbatical. We haven't really talked too much about

(01:07:54):
Scarlett's character because it's just again a confounding character. A
lot of the choices I was like, I don't know,
like she is, uh, you know, it seems like she's
falling for Bradley Cooper who is cheating on his wife,
who is Jennifer Connelly, who is projecting her issues onto
Louise Guzman. It's all connected. It's all connected like Babel,

(01:08:17):
but which is like that's you know, that's a storyline, sure,
but but it's just I feel like you just don't.
I feel like I don't know anything about her other
than she's supposed to be a yoga instructor. I think
they don't show it because it's PG. Thirteen, but there's
that gratuitous like, oh, she's taking her clothes off and
jumping in the pool, which just feels exploitative in a

(01:08:41):
way that it's like, well, if you're if you're going
to do that, like can I know something about who
is this person? What she says you have an ass
so tight or whatever that it makes me want to
dry hump, and I'm like, I'm sorry what And then
he's like, I just fell in love honestly as a

(01:09:01):
seeing this movie as a like a sophomore in high school,
I was like, I can relate with that, but I'm
just like what you want to Like, what part of
him do you want to do? You want to dry
hump his ass? Like, what are you talking about? The
dry hump his ass? I think it's pretty clear I
want to I'm trying to picture that. What I would

(01:09:23):
love to do is like sit down with Scarlett and
talk to her about her process, Like how did you
make sense of these lines? How did you commit to
these lines? Like I would love to have that conversation
because listen, this was a job for her, bless her,
she had to do it, but damn, that's a hard
script to like stand behind it. She just yeah, she's

(01:09:46):
just ping ponging between and it's again, it's like there's
the like seeds of potentially an interesting story if you
know anything about the character, because if you had context
for Scarlett, you would be like, oh, you know, she
seems to be in this uttern of you know, like
pursuing men who are unavailable and then going back to
men she doesn't really care about but wants positive validation

(01:10:09):
from that is like reflective of a real life dynamic
that exists, but without context it just becomes too She
could have had her own film. Everybody here could have
had their own film and not be two hours, and
we could have gotten into some deep like healing romantic
comedy stuff, but the genre just wasn't there back then,

(01:10:29):
you know, um anything else. Oh, I guess we We
were referencing this at the top of the movie. But
Bradley Cooper does shove Scarlett Johansson in a closet, and
that is feminism, the most disrespectful thing ever it was. Oh,

(01:10:51):
I will say that back in my early twenties, I
was spending an night at somebody's house and a girl
that he was seeing showed up at three am and
I heard them arguing outside the front door while I
quietly stayed in the bedroom. So I guess I have

(01:11:11):
been Scarlett Johansson at some point. But at least I
wasn't at his job in the middle of the day,
do you know what I mean? Yeah, like like he's
still relinding playbook another groupers, Like, at least I didn't
go that long. Yeah. So many people do so money
inappropriate things at their jobs in this movie. Yeah. And

(01:11:35):
also he can't find a piece of paper there. He's
he's like in here somewhere, what are you doing? Like
go to the office next door and ask him again
for the piece of paper and be done with He's gross.
He sucks um. One last thing I wanted to say
was it felt to me like the Drew Barrymore subplot,

(01:11:57):
because she definitely gets less screen time than most of
the other women and him one day of availability right
her through line. I got the sense that it was
there mostly too shame people who use online dating, and
the whole thing was like, oh that grows anyone who
does online dating. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

(01:12:20):
What you need to do is go back to the
good old fashioned meeting people. I r L. Well, that's
a very I think that that's like a very of
the time attitude too. But again, like I think by
two thousand nine was a little outdated as well. Yeah,
because that seems like a like sex in the city thing,
Like when online dating was new, it was like perceived
as unsafe and desperate behavior, when now it's like the

(01:12:43):
norm norm. Yeah, I took it as like tech overwhelmed
in a way, which it can be a little bit.
And I don't know, ladies, but I'm maybe call me
on fashion, but I'm like, I want to get off
these apps, like if I want to. I'm to the
point right now where i'd if I don't meet somebody,
that's okay, and I'd rather it just happen in person

(01:13:04):
at some point because they are exhausting. As someone who
is also on the apps, I'd rather not to be.
But I just have someone just meet like a lot.
But I don't feel any like shame. Associated No, no,
that shouldn't be any shame. Absolutely no shame. But you know,
for my show, I took a lot of real profiles,

(01:13:26):
but had my friends who are actors give me an
image so that I didn't like shout anybody. But one
of them said my love language is dot dot dot
anal and that was out in the world. So you know,
there is a there is a terrible like wasteland of
things happening in these profiles that I just want to be. Yeah.

(01:13:49):
My Hinge profile says my love language is making you
watch Paddington too. You love it, You're gonna get snatched up,
you just want to cuddle. Hasn't happened anyway, Yeah, any

(01:14:10):
other any final thoughts from anybody? I just want to
say that I was hell is surprised because I've heard
of the Bechdel test but I just it's so minimal.
Do you know what I mean? That? When I see
the amount of films that don't meet it, I'm like,
what in the hell are you writing that you can't
have two lines of women talking about something other than guys.

(01:14:35):
That's just ridiculous to me. It's well that brings us
to our discussion of whether or not this movie passes
the Bechdel test, And I honestly did not pay close
enough attention. Did you? Did? They have one exchange where

(01:14:57):
Jennifer Connolly ask somebody if they want coffee and the
other one says yes, wow, oh, and then maybe that
the whole like, I can't write this copy about nutmeg,
And then one of them is like don't Maybe there's
there's that one coffee And I'm like, why is coffee
important right now? But I wonder if the writers were like,

(01:15:19):
we gotta pass with test, throw in the coffee sequence.
I'm also seeing that someone arguing on famous website backel
test dot com. Uh, someone says that the scene where
Jennifer Anniston and her sister who is named talk about
a bridesmaid dress to marriage, I agree, I agree, Yeah,

(01:15:43):
every single conversation between women in this movie is either
explicitly or implicitly about men or relationships with men in
the entire movie, even the montage where they're showing all
the women, I was like to Asian women talking about dudes.
So yeah, oh my gosh, that because it doesn't pass.

(01:16:08):
It doesn't, But like the coffee thing was trash. Yeah.
We've also been having discussions on the show recently about
sort of upgrade because because there's so many different versions
of the Bechdel test, and we've kind of been thinking
about upgrading ours to having it be like a meaningful
exchange which would exclude you know, just like hey, here's this, thanks,

(01:16:29):
or like exchanges like that, because sometimes I feel like
little things like that let really hitty movies get off
the yes. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that
this movie does not pass the Bechdel test. Um, I'm
on board, Thank you so much. Let's let's put it
to our test. Our nipple scale, a scale of zero

(01:16:52):
to five nipples based on an examination of intersectional feminism
as it applies to the MOVIEV. He's just not that
into you guess what. I'm just not that into this movie,
and I give it. I'll give it a half nipple,
because I think that it very very minimally begins to

(01:17:16):
think about starting some conversations that could be interesting about relationships,
but because of just how little follow through there is,
how there's only space provided to hetero romantic relationships. They

(01:17:39):
are all rich white people who are given any significant
storylines or actively gentrifying the entire to more yes um,
and just the very broad, sweeping, reductive stereotypes about men
and women the the characters are written within. It's just

(01:18:04):
so broad and binary and regressive, and I hate all
of it. And now I'm talking myself out of this
even half nipple. I think I'm going to give it
zero nipples. Yeah, I've I would feel I don't know,
because the only thing that I liked about the movie
besides Chris Christophers and I need to give it a

(01:18:24):
half nipple because I need to give that to Chris
Christopher shark on the movie. So I'll give it, Okay,
I'll give it. I'll give it a half half, No
no nipples, one half of Chris Christofferson's fictional heart hears um.
But it's it's it's like it's it's bizarre, like we've

(01:18:46):
been discussing there are these few like I liked the
beginning idea of the movie if like, here's a lie
we've been told our whole lives, it's bullshit. But then
the rest of the movie is not about that and
contradicts that, and there's so much it's just I don't know,

(01:19:07):
like this, this movie was not made to you know,
I hope, I mean, but that's maybe not true that
like this movie was it wasn't supposed to change anyone's
mind about anything or really challenge anything in a meaningful way.
And I don't know. It was very successful. It was
extremely so that's funny. Yeah, hundred and seventy eight million
dollars at the box office, which is quite a lot

(01:19:30):
for rom comps, especially was all Bradley Cooper though, be
honest that that was all the frosty tips. Baby, So
I'll give it. I'll give it no nipples and then
one half of Chris Christofferson's heart and know what about you.
I'm gonna give it a nipple ring, a nipple ring

(01:19:52):
a ring because um, it's shiny. It's nice to look at,
but it's completely unnecessary, just like the movie. Although the
movie is not just nice to it. So, I mean,
you know, it was shot nicely, you know, people put
effort into it, but then there's there are okay, they're okay,
I just have to get into Jennifer Connelly comes in,

(01:20:13):
tries to seduce her husband. He could not be less
interested in it, but he's like I guess, and then
they like have sex and then the camera like moves
over to the door of the closet that Scarlet is in,
but not like why wouldn't you see the camera in
the closet and look at her face instead of just

(01:20:36):
shows the door, And I'm just like, what the who?
Scarlett was not available that day, but it has to be.
Here's how much I was into the movie. I was like,
that's a nice boost tche Jennifer Connolly like it was
why to show up? It's classy, it's cute. And I
also had like those do you hear those straps from

(01:20:56):
the late two thousands that were kind of like fringe E.
They had had those like fringe E kind of uncomfortable straps,
but they looked cool. I was like, oh, Victoria's Secret
high School Edition. I remember these fringe straps. What what
a journey? You know? Thank you so much for joining us.

(01:21:17):
Thanks for letting me chat with you, guys. I had
so much fun. It's our pleasure. Tell us about your
show and tell us about other places that people can
check out your stuff and follow you on social media. Yeah,
my show is called The Oxy Complex. It's running streaming
virtually UM through April eighteen. You can go to I

(01:21:38):
am a theater dot com I A M a theater
dot com to get tickets. UM. It's set on the
five day of Quarantine, which I didn't think we would
ever get to but maybe we will. UM. And the
character Viviana is kind of dealing with insomnia and stress
and starts having hallucinations which kind of take her back

(01:21:59):
to look at her dating life and UM try to
heal some core traumas in her life in order to
maybe be a better partner in the future. And you know,
it's a dark comedy, so I'm gonna make you laugh. UM.
You can follow me on Instagram at the Underscore Analo Madrid.

(01:22:19):
And I'm also an acting coach, so if you're an
actor and you're looking for community, we created UM a
membership platform called the New Triple Threat UM because now
actors have to be kind of all about their business,
their craft, and their tech. So we have courses to
help you set up your self tape studio, auditioning craft.
We're gonna do like budgeting for actors, you know, all

(01:22:42):
the things that they don't teach you in school, uh,
the actual skills that you need to be a working actor.
And you can go to the new Triple threat dot com.
So for as little as like fifty seven bucks a month,
you get to access to all this information. Yeah, and
you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast.

(01:23:02):
You can check out our Matreon at patreon dot com
slash Bechtel Cast, which gets you two bonus episodes every
month plus the entire back catalog and it is five
dollars a month. Wowee wow, what a treat. What a
treat indeed. And then our merch is at t public

(01:23:22):
dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Crab yourself a mask,
crab yourself a shirt, other other wares of your life.
You know, well, we're not going to stop you. And
then yeah, I guess um, we're just not that into
He's just not that into you, r I P. Chris

(01:23:46):
Christofferson just kidding. He lives. Bye, bye,