His Girl Friday

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy Zephi. Fast
start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, Caitlyn Duranday, Hey Jamie, do you have that article
for me? You're a reporter and I need you to
talk really fast to be so that we.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Haven't And I didn't do any research because I'm tired,
so I just made it up and here it is.
Let's put it in the paper.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well that's okay. Yeah, let's just keep overlapping and talking
like this so that no one can understand what we're saying.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Okay, then that's kind of the charm of the movie,
because yeah, I guess for me, but for me, and
it's my birthday. God damn it.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Not anymore, Jamie, not anymore?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh shit, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. Say, my name
is Jamie Loptis.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where
we examine movies through an intersecttional feminist lens, using the
Bechdel test as a jumping off point. But Jamie what's
the Bechdel Test.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'll tell you. I'll tell you what it is. I've
got it in this big old book right here. It's
a video metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often
called the Bechdel Wallace test because she co created it
with a dame named Oh abroad, a broad name less Wallace.
Oh no, sorry, Les Wallas. Lots of versions of the test.

(01:25):
The version we use is this, two characters of a
marginalized genders with names you hear speak to each other
about something other than a fella for for two lines
or more. Does it happen in this movie? I would argue, yes,
which kind of feels like a miracle. Uh oh does it?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
I didn't even notice because I didn't know who was
talking at any point.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
It's like there's conversations between women that eventually divert to
be about a man. There's not a full conversation that
passes the Bechtel test, but there are exchanges between Hildy
and Molly that pass the Bechdel test. Yeah, and other
than that, it's like two incidentals account But I do
think that there's a conversation between Hilldy and Molly that

(02:05):
passes and that's the episode folks. No, just kidding, yod
bye see Laos so long It's his Girl Friday week
on the backdel cast. I was originally going to choose
this as one of my birthday picks on the Matreon,
but we went another direction to learn about that direction

(02:26):
head over to the Matreon. Wow, but this is still
I think a movie that warrants discussion because it's a
very famous movie, and yeah, what's your history with this movie?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
I thought I had seen it because it's one of
those like classic Hollywood movies that you have to see
if you want to know about film, you know, say,
but twist. I thought I had seen it, and it
turns out I hadn't. I think I was getting it
confused with Philadelphia Story, which I have seen.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
This does feel, Yeah, I always kind of forget that,
which is unfair to Rassalin Russell, who I think gives
an unbelievable performance in this movie. I always sort of
code this in my brain as a Katherine Hepburn movie,
which it is not. But I also think that's somewhat
understandable given the fact that at the Howard Hawks movie
it feels like a Howard Hawks movie. And I just

(03:19):
associate those movies with Carrie Grant and Katherine Hepburn because
he did bringing up baby with her. Anyways, so this
was your first time watching.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
This was my first time watching it. I wasn't super
thrilled with it at the top. I generally like Carrie
Grant movies. Say, he's probably my favorite actor of that era, sure,
because he's sort of the only one who I know
about other than Gene Kelly. Jimmy Stewart.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Oh, I like Geen Kelly, you do, but you hate
Jimmy Stewart.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
I hate Jimmy Stewart.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah. Honestly, I think that you have slowly moved me
against Jimmy Stewart. Yes, yeah, there I said it.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, you're welcome. But anyway, I generally like Cary Grant movies.
This is not one of the ones I care for
very much, partly because his character is despicable. I think,
I mean, we'll have an interesting discussion about this movie,
but it just wasn't quite for me. What about you, Jamie,
what's your relationship with the movie?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
So interestingly, and I feel like this is just because
this show has been on for so long that we're
running out of genuine favorite movies to cover. So yeah,
I originally picked this as a birthday pick for the Matreon,
not because it's one of my favorite movies. This is
only my second time seeing it, but because I saw
it in theaters last year and I was not watching

(04:46):
it critically. I was just kind of letting it wash
over me and was like, Wow, that movie was I mean,
I also thought maybe I'd seen it in film school.
I didn't. I have seen like a couple Howard Hawk's
movie before and seen Bringing Up Baby. We've covered gentlemen
preferred blondes on this very show, so you know, I

(05:08):
sort of assumed that I that I'd seen this before.
I hadn't, and I kind of I mean, it's interesting
because I think where I generally come down on this
movie is I really enjoyed seeing it in theaters. I
really enjoyed seeing it with an audience. It was really
fun listening to jokes written eighty five years ago still
play in a theatrical setting. Like I was very taken

(05:30):
in by the experience. I was with people who I love,
who loved the movie. It was like it was a blast.
And then upon leaving the movie. I was like, Wow,
I really love the performances in this movie, and I
think that it is like a tricky movie for us
to talk about, which is why I want to try,
because it, you know, I think, fails as a feminist

(05:52):
story but succeeds as a satire, and if a few
elements were adjusted, it could be successful as both. And
then I did some more reading and it sort of
brought back this like latent. You know, early film school
talks of the Hoxian woman, and I don't. I honestly
don't remember. Listeners, you may be a better authority on

(06:16):
this than we were if we talked about the tropes
that are associated with the Hoxian woman, like the one
of the like a guy's girl, kind of like the
original guys girl in film tropes. But I don't know. Like,
I think this movie is a super fun watch. I
think as a satire it's like really successful and I

(06:36):
enjoy letting it wash over me. But if you are
watching it for a feminist hero, unfortunately you do not
get one, which is which is frustrating. It almost like
reminds me of I feel like these kind of like
Hoxyan women are in conversation with so many other tropes
around women that come up later in film, of like
the girl power girl who is doing all the cool stuff,

(07:00):
is saying all this stuff. There is the illusion of agency,
but it like collapses under scrutiny of like, well, no,
she is still very much being heavily manipulated by the
male protagonist or by the patriarchal system on the whole.
It's so tricky and it's like also quite evil to
loop in this brutal manipulation of Hildy with something that

(07:24):
she appears to be very good at and loves, which
is drill like it's just it's I don't know. It'll
be an interesting discussion for sure, because I'm not like
super attached to Like, I won't defend this movie. I
won't go to the map for it, but I do
understand why people still watch it.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah for sure. Yeah. Hmm, well let's get into it,
how we Alrighty, here is the recap, and I'll place
the content warning for a brief kind of mentioned slash
discussion of suicide. We open on the busy office of

(08:00):
the morning Post newspaper from what city I can't tell,
not New York, somewhere else ever, heard of somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
No me either.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
We meet Hildy played by Rosalind Russell, who is there
to see her her ex husband, Walter played by Kerry Grant.
He is the editor in chief of the newspaper which
Hildy used to write for until she quit, no longer
wanting to be in the newspaper business right.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Unclear why, because it's like this is where it gets
so fascinating already, where it's like she's like, it's corrupt,
and then you look at how they do business and
you're like, oh, yeah, true. But then you're like, but
that's but that's not why. She actually loves being corrupt.
It's her favorite.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, she doesn't mind it all.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
These two are just like there is something interesting about
watching two characters that you're like, hmm. These characters are
both kind of you're.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Evil, and they deserve each other.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
They found each other and they're really going to like
win a pulis or saying something very fucked up someday,
very true.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yes, So Hildy goes to see Walter. They talk about
their relationship, why it didn't work out. Then he plays
a little trick to try to get Hildy to come
back and work for him again, because he's always tricking people,
double crossing people, manipulating people, doing sneaky and shady stuff

(09:33):
to get what he.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Wants in life and at work.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes, and Hildy is like, I'm not gonna come back
and work for you. And if you're trying to get
back together with me, I'm not doing that either. I'm engaged,
I have a fiance and I'm getting married tomorrow. And
he's like, damn, that sucks.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
And then it's just like your first hint that something
is amiss is the fact that she's like, and I
need to do this in person, and you're like, no,
you don't, No, you don't. This could have been an email,
you know this. Yeah, why didn't she email him? That's
what that's us. This is our twenty fourteen feminist critique.
She should have texted him, Okay, So that's weird. I
also feel like there is a coding specifically during well

(10:19):
not even specifically during this, like throughout romantic comedies that
if someone if the like alternate romantic interest, is like
an accountant or works in insurance, he is fundamentally unworthy
of love. I think they're like this this trope carries

(10:39):
through the nineties weirdly.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yes, I think there's like a career coded thing and
then also a personality thing where if.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yes, were you kind right, if you're like you don't
deserve if you're romantic and sweet, or on the flip
side of it, like the other end of the spectrum,
if you're pure evil a la cal Hockley from Titanic
right right. There are exceptions, but it's like I just

(11:11):
moments ago listeners tested negative for COVID, but I have
been a part of a COVID movie club consisting of
me and my boyfriend. Who else who has COVID? And
okay really exclusive? But we watched Pretty Woman for the
first time last night. I'd never seen it, and I
mean we that's been a request on this show for years.

(11:32):
We've just been waiting for the right guess, the right moment.
But I just you know, it's so like the Richard
gear character, and Pretty Woman also like a very fundamentally
evil capitalist, yes, who like makes one good choice, and
then you know it's just like so bizarre. It reminds
like the Tom Hanks Jeff Bezos character. And you've got

(11:53):
male and you're like, we have to be rooting for
someone who's like I guess that. The thing with with
Cal Hockley is he's despicable, but he's not charming and
the whole like it's like if you have less RIZ
than the other guy. I mean you could say he's
not try.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean Billy Zane is trying, right, Cal, Yeah, you're right,
he's cow.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Is like a phony, and I feel like it reads
to people who are not millionaires. Sure, yeah, but it's
just like it's a RIZ contest. It doesn't matter what
Carry Grant's values are, He's going to have more RIZ
than the other guy, because that's like Cary Grant, right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, Well, in any case, she is engaged to a
different man now. Walter is clearly disappointed, but he wants
to meet her fiance. Bruce, an insurance salesman.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Parentheses will be fucked over and arrested forty times because
fuck him.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yes, yes, I mean insurance is a scam, so.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
It definitely is.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
But I don't feel feel bad.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I feel like the job is coded as quote unquote boring,
not like corrupt, because it's like Carrie Grant is corrupt
as hell, Like, yeah, that's why they love each other
because they're both. I mean, she's a less corrupt reporter
than the rest of them, but that's like grading on
a curve exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah. Yeah, So Walter insists on taking them out to lunch,
where he learns that Hildy and Bruce are taking a
train later that day to move to Albany Forever.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Which does, with all due respect to my Albany heads,
which does sound really really unpleasant. Yeah, wouldn't be me,
That's all I'll say.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
So Walter keeps trying to concoct a scheme to get
Hildy to stay, and he's talking about this unfolding news
story that he wants her to cover about a man
named Earl Williams who shot and killed a and who
is about to be hanged for it, but how his

(14:04):
life could be saved if the newspaper interviews him and
publishes the interview to show that he's not of sound mind,
which would get him off the hook because he has
been declared sane by a doctor. So if there's like
contradicting evidence to support he is not, you know, quote

(14:27):
unquote saying, they could save his life. Although there's going
to be another psychiatric evaluation of this man Earl Williams
right before the hanging, so keep that in mind, everybody. Now,
Hildy agrees to take the later train so that she
can do this interview with Earl Williams in exchange for

(14:48):
Walter buying life insurance from Bruce so that Bruce will
get a sizeable commission. And Walter agrees to this, and
he also names Hildy his beneficiary for the life insurance policy.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
And we're like, also, he's like topless in the same
like he's just like, it's so weird, Like this, okay,
we have not renamed it in five years, but this
feels like a Boushemi test thing to me, where it's like,
if it's not Carrie Grant getting like shirtless doctors examinations
in the room with this other guy and like doing
all this stuff that is clearly designed to make him

(15:25):
feel threatened and uncomfortable, if it's not like the sexiest
movie star in the entire world conventionally doing that, it
is like more transparently villainous behavior. But if like, because
it's Kry Grant, it's easier to sell in the time
it comes out like, well, it's kind of funny because
it's carry Grant, right.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
And all these dames watching the movie, we're so distracted by.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
His nipplesmaa humana.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right, So anyway this is happening. Then there's it's like
something something certified check that Bruce has to put in
the lining of his hat.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, there's a lot of YadA YadA with the money moneys.
I had to google. I'd googled bravely. I googled some stuff.
Whoa not about the money transfers, but about the the
nature of like what Earl Williams was listening to in
the park. I had to like check what that was.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yes, So there's another thing about five hundred dollars in cash,
which Hildy and Bruce have, and he gives that to Hildy, right,
And it's all because she suspects someone aka Walter and
his minions are going to try to like rob Bruce,

(16:40):
which does keep happening. Meanwhile, Hildy goes to see Earl
Williams at the county jail. The story with him is
that he had lost his job, tried to get another
one was not able to. He was living on the
streets and one night he found himself with a gun
in his hands and he shot a cop, claiming it

(17:03):
was an accident.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Which the movie we'll get to goes out of the
way to say it was a black cop, yes, which
we'll get to, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, And so Hildy, while she's interviewing him, is like, oh, well,
you heard a speech in the park about production for use.
You know how objects have use, and a gun's purpose
or use is to be shot, So that's why you
shot the gun. And he's like, yeah, exactly, and the
girl right, And so Hildy writes up this interview to

(17:35):
be published in the Morning Post, which again makes him
seem not quite of sound mind, but it's to save
his life.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, So she's lying for good question mark where she
is like basically saying he heard a socialist talk in
the park that confused him so much that he shot
a cop, right, and that's why he can't be yeah, executed.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, it was a.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Stretch, but you know, the pros from what we heard
was pretty compelling, right.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Okay, So then we also meet a woman named Molly Molloy,
a friend of sorts of Earl Williams. There's this group
of reporters at the Criminal Court's Office who have been
kind of like harassing this woman. They made up a
bunch of stories about how she's like desperately in love

(18:29):
with Earl in order to sell papers. In reality, she
barely knows him, but it's that she like showed him
kindness one night, and she's trying to advocate for him
to not be executed.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
And which would be impossible unless you were in love
with someone.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right according to all of these men. Yes, Hildy leaves
and meets up with Bruce, who has been arrested for
steel a watch. But it seems like he was framed
because Walter has a mister Lovejoy type of undertaker of

(19:08):
a man servant, if you will, this guy named Louis
who frames people for stealing expensive accessories, just like how
Cal framed Jack for stealing the heart of the Ocean.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
A wild guy to have on retainer.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yes, truly, and so Hildy finds this out and she
calls Walter to be like you double crossing, slimy, no good,
So and so I never want to see you again, right,
And she rips up the story and is about to leave,
but just then Earl Williams escapes from the county jail

(19:47):
during his final psychiatric evaluation before the hanging, and so
there's all this hubbub and a bunch of reporters are
trying to break the story of his escape. Hildy chases
down a guy named Cooley. I think he's the warden
of the jail.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I think. So it's really honestly hard for me to tell,
but it is really fun to watch hilde tackle his ass.
That was, like, I just I remember, like the first
time I watched it. I don't know, there are certain
subversive like I just was not prepared to see a
woman in a movie this old be that active, I know, right,

(20:27):
and like, but she like takes his ass down.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, like linebacker style tackles his ass.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, she Travis Kelsey. I don't know what position he plays.
Maybe she potentially Travis Kelsey's him. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
We don't know, and we're not gonna look at him.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Not that kind of show. It's not that kind of show.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
No. Anyway, she's trying to get the story about how
Earl Williams escapes, and she does, and she relays this
story to Walter. She also wants to be reimbursed for
the four hundred and fifty dollars she spent bribing, and
Walter does pay her back, but with counterfeit money rats

(21:06):
and then he frames Bruce and gets him arrested again.
He just keeps trying to put Bruce in jail and
it's working, but keep in mind the rule of threes.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's not brusus last time, and no it's not.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Then there are some scenes and I think this movie
is a bit guilty of getting too caught up in
the like logistics and plottiness of this case where it
should be I think, focusing more on Hildy and her
like skills as a reporter and journalists and stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
I agree with that. I feel like there's a lot
of like I mean, and I know that it's relevant
to the satire they're trying to get across, which is
like very rooted in the time, but yeah, it almost
feels like, I don't know, I feel like there's the
same with like a lot of classic novels where you're
like in the middle of like a really compelling story
and then it just switches to like agricultural law for

(22:02):
like forty pages. You're just like what you're like That
happens in a lot of Fressian novels. You're just like
reading about like a marriage that's failing, and then they're like,
and here's what that has to do with agrarian law
in eighteen forty, And you're like, I'm sorry, that's none
of my business. That's not what I'm here for.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah. So it's right around here in the movie that
there are scenes where there's the mayor, I think, the sheriff.
I think a bunch of men are talking about a
reprieve for Earl. I think this is like a pardon
and this guy named Joe Pettybone comes in to deliver

(22:46):
the reprieve that would get now Earl off the hook.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Now this guy is an MVP of the movie. For me, agree,
it is unreal how and then I had to like
look the actor up and like, was what a thrilling? Like?
Looking this actor up really delivers? Did you look him
up at all? No?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Okay, For first of all, he's Sneezy the dwarf. Whoa.
He's like he was in so many Like he was
a prolific famous character actor of this time. He was
in something I know I had to watch in college,
Laureln Hardy's The Music Box. He's the guy who hates Pianos.
He was in The Great Dictator this same year, like

(23:26):
he was just in a lot of hit movies, and
he got his comic timing is so good. He's so funny,
and then he comes back and everyone's like, I don't
know that. That was my favorite part of seeing this
movie in person was that when he comes back at
the end spoiler alert. Although it doesn't really make that
much of a difference, but he comes back at the

(23:47):
end and everyone's like, whoa, because he's so awesome. He's
such a good actor.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Great and Joe Pettibone is a great character name m hm. Anyway,
he comes in to deliver this reprieve to the Mayor,
but the may who wants Earl Williams to be executed,
bribes Joe Pettibone not to actually like hand over this pardon.
Then Earl Williams shows up at the Criminal Court's office

(24:15):
with a gun. The only other person there at the
moment is Hildy, and she's able to get the gun
away from him. She offers to help him, and she
hides him in a roll top desk and then calls
Walter and Bruce to let them know what's going on.
Shortly after a bunch of people show up, first Molly Molloy,

(24:38):
then all of those crime reporters that we've been seeing
throughout the movie, then Bruce's mother, and they're all yelling
about where's Earl, where's this guy? Yeah, and the reporters
are bullying Molly. So she jumps out of a window
to kill herself.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's weird. I've seen this like alternatively described as like
an attempt to kill herself. I've also seen it as
an attempt to escape the situation. Because she's jumping from
a window. That isn't far. I don't buy that, but
I just wanted to mention that I've repeatedly seen that
moment characterized that way. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, yeah, I interpret it as she was intending to
die by suicide.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
That was my original assumption as well. I don't know
where that's coming from. I don't know if that's like
something that's noted in the script. I don't know if
that's like something from the source material. And I agree
with you. I just wanted to mention that I saw
it mentioned that way. I don't know what that is
rooted in. Exactly interesting.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Either way, we never see her again. We don't know
what happens to her really.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
And the movie does not care, which is too bad
because what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah exactly, So this causes a bit of a distraction,
and right then Walter shows up with his Mignon Louis,
who kidnaps Bruce's mother and takes her away. So now
it's just Walter in Hildy and Earl hiding in the desk. Yeah,

(26:12):
Hildy wants to leave to get Bruce out of prison
so that they can take the train to Albany, but
Walter convinces Hildy to stay and help him break this story,
which is also about government corruption in the mayor's office
or something. These details were a little foggy for me.
In any case, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity

(26:34):
that would like make her career, so Hildy is convinced.
She starts writing the story. Then her fiance Bruce shows
up to be like are you coming with me or what?
And she's like nah. Turns out I do want to
be in the newspaper business. So he's like all right,

(26:58):
bye and he leaves a few moments later, after she
sees Walter trick and double crossed yet another person to
get what he wants. Hildy's like, wait a minute, what
have I done? I should be on that train with Bruce.
Then she finds out that Bruce's mother was maybe killed
in a car accident, and she feels responsible.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
I also feel like the joke of that scene is
that she is not upset about her almost mother in
law potentially getting hit. She is upset about herself. Yeah, yeah,
which iconically selfish character for.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Sure, and that's who she is as a character. Again,
she and Walter deserve each other.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
It's such a myra they But I also still feel
like Hildy's get getting a raw into the deal, you know.
But whatever that's I'll tell they're dead.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
They're fictional characters. Then a bunch of men storm into
the room, possibly the sheriff. I don't I can't keep
track of any of these people, the crime reporter. Probably.
They're demanding to know what's going on. They suspect that
Hildy knows where Earl Williams is and they start manhandling her.

(28:10):
So she pulls out the gun that she took from
Earl and the sheriff is like, wait a minute, that's
my gun that Earl Williams stole. From me, so you
must know where he is. And then Bruce's mother shows up.
She is not dead. She tells the sheriff that Hildy
and Walter are hiding Earl right there in the office.

(28:31):
So they find Earl, and Hildy and Walter are arrested.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Poor Earl has almost suffer suffocated inside of the desk,
which I do think is like, really, I don't know,
we'll get to like the commentary on journalism in this movie,
but like, you know, could there be a clearer slash
in like a screwball comedy, way funnier example of how
little the actual subject of the story matters to them
than the fact that they nearly let him suffocate inside

(28:58):
of a desk.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
But yeah, yeah, So in any case, Hildy and Walter
are arrested for harboring a murderer. But then that guy
Joe Pettybone shows up again.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
And everyone's like, who give him an oscar? He's so good?
Oh god, what an amazing and then he kills it again.
He steals the whole damn scene once again.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
For sure, because what happens here He has decided to
refuse the mayor's bribe.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Because of something his wife told him to do. Yes. Yeah,
missus pettybone feminist only feminist hero in the movie never
meet her.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Absolutely, He's there to deliver this reprieve pardon thing after all,
and to not accept the mayor's bribe. So now Hildy
and Walter know about this bribery attempt and that the
mayor wanted Earl Williams to be because he figured it
would get him reelected. That information lets Hildy and Walter

(30:06):
off the hook. They are unarrested, and then Walter tries
to kind of show Hildy away, saying that she should
catch that train and go be with Bruce, and she's like, well,
I want to stay and write the story. And so
she seems disappointed that Walter doesn't want her there. And
then Bruce calls he has been arrested for a third

(30:28):
time trying to spend the counterfeit money that they got
from Walter, which makes Hildy realize that Walter does love her.
He was trying to get Bruce arrested so many times
because Walter's trying to actually win her back.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
This is so confusing because I was like, read, they're
so messy, Like it's confused because There are analyzes of
this movie, and this is how I read it the
first time I saw it, that somehow Hildy has been
playing this game of like forty D Chess to yield
this result. But there's too many There's too many X factors,

(31:09):
like how could she count on the story of her
career falling into her lap at this exact moment, Like
I don't. I feel like it maybe is somewhere in
between or more likely the writers were thinking about her
motivations very hard, but like how she first of all
evil of her to be like I am willing if
it is her intention to almost get married to someone else,

(31:33):
to have Walter wake up and ask for her back,
which it seems like she there is some desire that
she wants that to happen, but she wants it to
come from her. She doesn't want to be the one
to come back to him, so she has to orchestrate this.
But I was like she in order to accomplish that,
she would have to be willing to ruin Bruce's life,
which she is. We know she is, yes RP. Bruce

(31:56):
rotting in jail for no reason. But and so even
if that's her plan, like it doesn't quite come together
as like this is a you know, I don't know,
and then he is I think he is very conniving
in all of the beats of what he does. Manipulative
stuff actually does track a little cleaner than to me.
Then what Hildy would have to do to oh for sure?

Speaker 3 (32:19):
But she I don't know. I don't know. I don't
quite understand what her plan is because what if he had, like,
wasn't at work that day, like, what would she do?

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I don't think. My read is that Hildy never has
a like, she has not premeditated trying to get back
together with Okay Walter, that she just gets duped the
way that he dupes everybody. I mean, I read it
as she was about to embark on a life that

(32:52):
she probably didn't actually want, but had convinced herself that
maybe I do want this, and then by being batter
in the newspaper business, she realizes, oh, I could not
actually leave this line of work in this lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Which would be an interesting story if it wasn't orchestrated
by her conniving ex husband, right, but it's not. It's
so weird. It's such a weird movie. See, I guess
I always put like a little more. Maybe it's because
I've conniving like tried to get Ment to say things
to me via a series of tricks in the past.

(33:28):
I'm willing to admit that it's true. It often doesn't worry,
usually doesn't work, but if it works once or twice,
it's like it's addictive. But I guess I sort of
that because and again, this might just be like the
movie that feels like a movie of it all, But
the fact that she goes in person to me says
that she wants some reaction out of him, that she

(33:49):
wants to witness, because this could all be handled over
the phone, but it isn't. And the fact that she
brings Bruce with her like means that she wants him
to bear witness to some dynamic as well. Like I
don't think what she's doing is healthy or like commendable,
but I do feel like she like wants some sort

(34:09):
of cathartic release from having shown up. Like, I think
you're totally right that I was giving an over you know,
like planning on her part to say that she would
expect the rest to happen, that she would expect the
day to end with her her fiance in jail and
her re betrothed to her ex husband. But it did

(34:31):
feel like she went there for some sort of catharsis.
And I'm not saying that critically because again I don't
know this stuff with Bruce that's like beyond the pale.
That's fucked up to bring someone who, for all intents
and purposes, as far as we can tell, worst crime
is being boring and just like wave him around and

(34:52):
sort of open him up to all of this like
ridicule and abuse for no reason. But I do feel
like her showing up with him something's afoot.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I think she has intentions that are maybe subconscious and sure,
but I don't think she's actively necessary. I think it's
more of a passive, subconscious thing that she's going for.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
I think she's I think she's brat summer.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Well, let's take a break to discuss. So the movie
ends with Hildy realizing that Walter was getting her fiance
Bruce arrested all these times because he was actually trying
to win her back, and he actually does love her,
and this is his way of showing that he loves her. Yeah, yeah,
He's like, you're right, let's get married again. This time

(35:41):
we will go on a honeymoon to Albany. And she's like,
sounds great, okay, bye.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
And then the movie's over so wild that the whole
time all she really wanted was to go to Albany.
It's anyways, Yes, let's take a break, say, and we'll
be back in a moment. You hear h.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
And we're back.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
You hear you see you see. Gosh, this movie is
so weird and fun to talk about. I would like
to start, with your permission, with what I think this
movie is successful at. Okay, on a story basis. What
I think this movie is very successful at, and sometimes

(36:32):
at the expense of certain characters or certain story logic,
is the satire of both politics and journalism of this time.
But I also think it's very applicable to current day
politicians and journalists, kind of an evergreen thing to be like,
the media and the politicians are corrupt, yes, and that

(36:54):
like occasionally justice can be achieved, but usually it's a
mistake or just happens to work in one or the
other's interest. I feel like that point is illustrated very
clearly in this movie, where there's no point in the
movie we're weird because I do think that there's a
lot of movies later on, I know, if we get

(37:14):
into like All the President's Men and stuff like that,
that present journalism as wholesale, a noble profession that people
don't fuck up, you know, that cannot be bought, you know,
all of this stuff where you know, journalism at its core,
of course, is a noble endeavor, but it is very

(37:35):
often not performed that way.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Because it's carried out by humans, and hungman's are often
not on their best behavior.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Well and even more so there there's a number, I mean,
there's two super famous movies in this one year span,
like This and Citizen Kane address the you know, not
exactly yellow journalism, well, I mean Citizen Kane does, but
you know, flawed get the story versus get the truth
style journalism that was very prevalent in the late eighteen hundreds,

(38:10):
and then there was another huge bout of yellow journalism
in the twenties and thirties, which I think it's more
likely these movies pulling from with you know, how much
of the Spanish American War was fueled by bad reporting,
and that bad reporting was fueled by making sales and
competition and all this stuff that we still hear about

(38:32):
today because this is what happens in capitalist societies, and
the you know, fallout is normal people, which in this
movie is illustrated through Earl Williams, and that portrayal is
also flawed, but I feel like that comes across very
clearly where our romantic heroes are journalists, and so we
side with the journalists more than the politicians because we

(38:55):
know them better, they're hotter, we like them, for sure.
But I appreciate about this movie that it doesn't, at
least for me, it doesn't really ever make any bones
about the fact that what they're doing is not true
or like ideal. Like they are kind of two con

(39:15):
artists that are very fun to watch and deserve each
other because you know they're both lying and in different ways.
And that's interesting where it seems like, you know, Hildy
generally is lying in favor or at least in the
case of this story, is lying in the hopes of

(39:36):
achieving justice in a roundabout way. But still it's not.
No one in this movie is doing good or like
laudable reporting. They're all lying, they're all making shit up,
and I feel like it's yeah, it's like a direct
commentary on the state of media at this time. Also
because this movie comes out at the very beginning of
World War Two, so of course people are thinking a

(39:57):
lot about media accuracy of a war that's taking place overseas.
And I don't know, I think that it works. And
the politicians are equally corrupt, and they try to, you know,
buy off our king and it doesn't work. And by
our King, I, of course do mean Joe petty Bone.

(40:18):
I do not mean Carry Grant. I mean Joe petty Bone,
the hero of the movie. Yes, you should have been
on the poster, but yeah, I mean I on that
level it works for me. But on a feminist level,
it very clearly doesn't.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
It sure doesn't. And I've got a lot to say
about it, starting with a little bit of context, which
is that this movie was adapted from a play called
The Front Page from nineteen twenty eight that was written
by Ben Hect and Charles MacArthur, which was also adapted

(41:00):
into a nineteen thirty one film of the same name,
The Front Page. Those versions of the story have it
so the person who had quit their reporting job and
who the Carry Grant character, tries to recruit back into
the newspaper business is a man his girl. Friday gender

(41:22):
swaps it so that the reporter is a woman and
the ex wife of, you know, the editor in chief
of the newspaper. So this was a pretty significant change
that critics loved, audiences loved, Like this movie was a success,
and so it's interesting that this story introduced a woman

(41:47):
into the picture and it was well received. But by
doing so and writing this character in the way that
she's written, leads to some problems.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yes, right, because like it sounds like an interesting choice
on it's I mean, it's weird. It's like a lot
of quote unquote gender swapped reboots of stuffing where it's like,
I see what you're going for, but it doesn't quite
come together.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Doesn't because what happens is she has convinced herself that
she no longer wants to be a reporter. She doesn't
want to work for her ex husband anymore. She has
found another man as a romantic partner, and she's going
to go off and live a different type of life.
So there's all these moments in the movie where people

(42:42):
are discussing Hildy quitting the newspaper game because she wants
to be a quote unquote woman, meaning she wants a
traditional domestic life. She wants to you know, make a home,
have babies, have like a far more traditional gender woman's life,
especially for this era, right.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Which seems to be like consistent with how Howard Hawks
talks about women in all of his movies, that like
the concept of woman is a job, which is like.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Huh, okay, yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting that
the movie is acknowledging this like traditional gender role of
what a woman is expected to do and how for
a while and then again later on or you know,
throughout the movie. She is subverting this expectation because in

(43:37):
the backstory she was a skilled reporter. This is how
she met Carrie Grant's character. They get married, the marriage
doesn't work out, and she decides, Okay, I'm gonna find
a more stable slash traditional situation for myself. But she

(43:58):
gets kind of seduced by being a newspaper man and
falls back into it. And we're led to believe, based
on how the story ends, that she is getting back
together with Walter and that she will continue to be
a reporter for him. Right, So you have this story
now that seems like at first, it seems like it's

(44:20):
being set up so that like a woman is prioritizing
her career over a relationship with a man, which, as
we've always discussed, like, isn't inherently feminist, Like feminism is
all about choosing what you want for yourself and.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Right, it's all which is really muddled at this movie
because we don't it seems as if based on even
like the first conversation she has with Walter, which for
all of its flaws, I love to watch. I have
no idea how you block and act a scene like this.
It's like how the fun Like, yeah, I guess I'll

(44:59):
just say it. Like the performances in this movie are
just so estere to me, where I just like don't
understand how they were physically possible. Right, But in that
whole first scene, like you kind of understand why they
got together. You definitely understand why they broke up, and
it seemed at least that in their marriage, like Hildy

(45:21):
wanted both but was not right. And you know, in
the very in the way that you know you're led
to believe it. You know, long after this movie comes out,
it's you know, it's almost a radical choice that this
movie presents that you could have one or the other. Usually,
you know, and in movies that come out ten years later.
And I don't know if it's because this is like

(45:42):
a wartime movie, that it's like a more palatable concept
for a woman to be a working professional, and the
fact that I'm sure that it makes it seem like
it's more palatable for her to be a working professional
because she's married to someone who's doing the same thing,
which you see a lot, But it seems like she's
always wanted both and is being forced to pick one
or the other and felt diminishing returns with her career

(46:03):
because of how her husband treated her and also her
opinions on how dirty a lot of the journalism was,
and so she's choosing quote unquote the other thing, which
is not fair but probably reflective of the time. But
it just seems like she, you know, she dumped him
because of his inflexibility to have both with her, which

(46:26):
is a great reason to get divorced.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
True And again, if what she in her heart of
hearts once is to be with Bruce and to it
seems like she would be. She's describing her future life
as though she will be a homemaker and if you know, again,
if that's what she wants, great, But there's this component

(46:50):
of this movie where you have all these men being like,
that's not what you actually want. You're a newspaper mayan.
Just accept it. And so there's this idea of like, oh,
a woman doesn't actually know what she wants and men
are telling her what she does want, and they turn
out to be right, and it turns out that she

(47:12):
was tricking herself. And this is something that women are
so often accused of and assumed to not know what
women want with their romantic or personal life, what women
want with their career, with their own bodies, like yeah,
and so that was very frustrating that all of these
men who kept telling her like, you're never gonna succeed

(47:35):
in that lifestyle of like a domestic homemaker, you're in
the newspaper business. Just accept it.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
And the ending is left fairly ambiguous as to what
I meant. And I would guess, based on what we
know abou him that Walter probably hasn't moved on that,
and that will be an unfortunate argument taking place in
front of Niagara Falls. But yeah, like I one of
the first things I wrote down, you know, like why
this movie critically, it is like all of the internal

(48:02):
logic of their relationship is based on no means yes,
And her coming to you know, for the divorce is
actually like a test and her you know and like
taking in you know, human weirdness and blah blah blah.
But like, yeah, the logic of the relationship depends on

(48:22):
when she says I don't want to be a reporter,
I don't want to be married to you, that she
actually means try and change my mind, and you know,
like and keep trying. And I mean she mentions repeated
like and it's like alluded to that he's heavily stalking her.
He's calling her NonStop or something. She is like actively
shielding her present life because he doesn't know Bruce exists,

(48:45):
you know, and it's like she's built this whole life
without him, and so you know, on its face, it's
just like he's again and if you BOUSHEMI test it,
It's like he's stalking her. He is not respecting her boundaries.
He is assuming his conception of her is more accurate
than what she is telling him to his face, like

(49:06):
it's just the whole relationship depends on him hearing no
and assuming yes, and then the fact that the logic
of that ends up to be basically correct is very
clearly demonstrated that this movie was men top to bottom
because it's like a fantasy. I feel like it's like
a you know, sort of a traditionally masculine fantasy that

(49:27):
no means yes and that your wife who divorces you
secretly wants to, you know, like test you and doesn't
actually you know, blah blah blah blah, and wants to
do exactly what you want her to do. And the
fact that this story ends, which you know, I know
is accurate to the time most likely, but that you know,
this still ends with she's his girlfrida. She is his employee,

(49:48):
his girl, Yeah, his girl, but like that's like his
go to reporter. She's his employee still, and so it's
just like she is. I don't understand other than a
re affirmation that I'm sure he's lied about the thing
is like, I don't know. I just feel for Hildy,
even though she is quite evil and like Bruce just

(50:09):
catches so many strays. That is, I feel for Bruce
big time. I'm like, buddy, buddy, he'll be fine or not.
Maye where he's in jail forever. Uh.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
He seems to get out and go off to Albany's movie.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Gel, but like, I don't know, It's just I feel
like he's duped her yet again. I mean, he has
duped her yet again. And I don't think that we
have any reason to believe that Walter wouldn't just say
anything he needed to to get what he wanted, which
is to get Hildy back. I don't believe that he's
like and yes, I am fully supportive of you being

(50:48):
a mother and a journalist, Like I just I just
don't see it.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
You know, it would be one thing if over the
course of this movie he realizes he needed to be
more flexible and less horrible as a person and more
respectful of her wishes and boundaries and stuff like that.
But he doesn't learn anything, and instead we just you know,
see him manipulating and exploiting and deceiving people. He makes

(51:15):
sexist remarks, he makes xenophobic, anti immigrant remarks, He threatens
a woman with violence on the phone, He makes ablest remarks.
You know, it's just the list goes on for all
of the horrible things.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Do I expect more from a nineteen forty movie. No, However,
I mean it's it's just so tricky too, because it's like,
I don't think that we're supposed to believe that these
are morally upstanding people, but because they're played by the
most charismatic movie stars of the day, you're still like
kind of permissive.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
You're rooting for You're meant to root for.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Them exactly exactly, and you know that's a complicate especially
when it's a movie for adults. It's like, yeah, you
can root for someone who kind of sucks because you
know your brain is fully developed you can handle it.
But but it is, you know, it is telling that
it's like you're told visually with time, with who's cast
with all this stuff, who is more worthy of being

(52:09):
rooted for when it's just like Bruce for sweep Beruce.
This this brings me to the idea of the hawksy
and Woman, which I'm pretty sure we did not discuss
in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, although.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
That was eighty four years ago, so we don't.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
It's true a movie I remember quite liking. I haven't
seen it in a while. Uh, and one that I
definitely feel like falls in under the category of Howard
hawks being like their job is woman because they're like
almost women in like a I don't know, they're just
they talk to each other like, I mean, like friends,
but also like weirdly like they're doing a job and

(52:47):
the job is a woman. We're right.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Were they dancers? I don't remember that movie at all.
I remember them being on like a cruise ship at
one point, but yeah, I could not say anything else
about it.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
That's okay, let me pull up. So there was a
great piece I read in Little White Lies Rip. I
believe that sort of unpacks this trope and why it
can be very frustrating for you know, feminists who watches
movies and feel like oh oh oh, because it's like

(53:17):
for nineteen forty Hilty does feel pretty remarkable in terms
of what you get. On the surface. She is very active.
She's like nagging the hell out of any man she
comes into contact with. She very often gets the upper hand.
She's an active reporter. She tackles someone like stuff that
you're not used to seeing, or it is stuff that

(53:38):
at least that I wouldn't expect in a movie from
nineteen forty where you know, and into the fifties and
on and on, where it's like you sort of expect
a degree of traditional wives and mothers, passivity and hysteria
quote unquote that you don't get with Hilthy and I
feel like it's almost like you're You're like, oh, then

(53:58):
she must be a feminist character. How Yeah. This is
a great piece by Sarah Cleary called who is the
Hawxyan Woman. I'd like to share a couple passages from it.
That also explains where this term came from, because the
term of the hoxy and woman didn't exist until nineteen
seventy one. So from this piece. Film critic Naomi Wise,

(54:20):
who coined the term Hoxyan woman in nineteen seventy one,
argued that in Hawks' cinema, quote, good girl and bad
girl are fused into a single heroic heroine unquote. This
assertion is certainly true of Bonnie, a different movie, whose
worldliness and irreverence might have easily marked her as a
fallen woman. In another film of the nineteen thirties, upon

(54:41):
her arrival in fog shrouded Baranka, she isn't at all
scandalized by the sexy dancing she happens upon in the
down and Dirty saloon. Instead, she sings along with the
band and shoots the dancers a cheeky aok hand gesture.
Despite the customary mid Atlantic accent, She's assault of the
earth girl from Brooklyn, moving on in the piece a
little bit. It's endings like this talking about the ending

(55:02):
of His Girl Friday, which usually put the kebash on
reading Hawks's heroines as feminist figures, tempting as those readings
may be. Quote, it's been said like there's a new
women's lib unquote, Hawks told a German documentary crew in
nineteen seventy seven. But they don't talk as much as
the people today do. Despite this characterization, Hawks's leading ladies
are usually rather for both articulate and witty, none more

(55:25):
so as Rosalind Russell and His Girl Friday. His Girl
Friday is frustrating when viewed from a feminist's perspective, in
that it comes tantalizingly close to being a feminist work.
Russell caughts a thoroughly modern silhouette, and one gets the
sense that Hawks sincerely believes that she's a tough nut
who belongs in a tough business. She ought to be there.
He does, not, however, trust her to make her own decisions.

(55:47):
She continually asserts and reasserts that she wants to quit
journalism to settle down with her new dul fiance, Bruce,
but Walter wants her back in his newsroom. Not to
mention his marital bed. Grant plays Walter so irresistibly, and
his chemistry with Russell is so sparky that one hardly
notices quite how cruel his manipulation of Hilty really is. Moreover,
we want to see Hildy' scuffle and snoop her way

(56:08):
to a big story. If we squint, it almost looks
like emancipation. The piece goes on, I would I would
recommend checking it out. But what the Hoxy and woman
kind of boils down to that really reminded me of
many movies we've covered that feel like kind of a
feminist bait and switch over the years, is that Hoxy

(56:30):
and women are generally guys girls. Which is Hilty to
a tea you know she's to some you know she
is She's a woman who is successful in a world
of men. She can hang with the guys, She can
walk into the room of like crooked journalists and say
like the boy, and she is accepted. She is respected

(56:54):
in this world, which is what is remarkable about her
in the opinion of the writer and the director, But
there's no follow through on like what is she like
with other women? We get very little and we get
again more than zero, which was surprising to me, but
like it's just very like proto guy's girl stuff. And

(57:17):
at the end she is still at the you know,
operating at the whims of a man in a patriarchal system,
whether she realizes that or not. So it's like the
illusion of feminism. It gets so like I totally get
because when I got when I walked away from this movie,
I was like, was that And then when you see
the end, you're like, oh, never mind, uh right.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
No, But I totally agree that if you're watching this
maybe only kind of half paying attention, or if you
don't know that much about feminism modern feminism, you'd be like, wow, again,
a movie about a woman who prioritizes her career that
she's really good at over a relationship with a boring

(57:59):
man whooh feminism, but because she ends up with a
different man who is way worse of a person and
who manipulates her and everyone around him. And again it's
like this idea of like, well, you know, women actually
can't have it all. So feminism looks like women in career,

(58:24):
not women as a homemaker or like woman doing domestic things,
and that is not what feminism is. Again, it's all
about choice, and it's all about choosing what works best
for you. But I understand why you'd have the notion of, oh, well,
choosing career over domestic things, Well, that's feminist because women

(58:46):
were expected to take on this role of traditional domestic homemaker,
and so choosing career, which is the opposite of what
women were traditionally expected to do under the patriarchy, well
that must be feminist. And that is not the case.
But that is sort of the logic, right, I think
this movie is operating under.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Totally like it's like and I understand, like, particularly if
you're a viewer of the time, why if you would
if you reactionally would be like this is way more
than I'm used to, Like, sure, she gets to talk,
but I mean, you know, also movies of this day,
it's weird, like how World War two movies and movies
of the forties like women generally do tend to have

(59:29):
more agency when like Katherine Hepburn is at her peak
of fame and all of this stuff, and then there
is like a pretty severe pullback of that in the
fifties as women's roles changed. So this kind of is
the most you know, agency you might see a woman
with in a big movie for some time in the
early forties. There's movies that are you know, still all

(59:52):
made by men, but you do have like more you know,
women that have there's a dual protagon. I would still
argue that Hildy is the protagonist of this movie. She
gets more screen time than Carry Grant. I would argue, like, so, yeah,
and she is driving the narrative more. You know, he
is doing his Greu shit. He's very gru code, he's
doing evil stuff. Grew interesting, nicer to his wife than

(01:00:16):
Carrie Grant is in this movie. Interesting. He does have
a Kevin yes, But yeah, that, like, she you know,
is driving the narrative. She has a job, she's good
at it, she's respected for it, she's desired professionally, not
just as a but all of that is undercut by
the fact that like that, you know, this movie does
not suggest any radical ideas in terms of like a

(01:00:39):
woman can have quote unquote at all. It just doesn't.
But I still think for nineteen forty it's it's doing.
It's doing a lot. I didn't think it was going
to do. Agree, But it's not a feminist movie. Sorry, folks, no,
it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
In my research about this movie because again, when Howard
Hawks got his hands on this play slash screenplay and
was like casting the movie, he originally intended for it
to be a pretty faithful adaptation to the original source
material as far as like having both the interesting editor

(01:01:19):
in chief and the reporter be both men. But when
he was doing auditions, Howard Hawks had his assistant, who
was a woman, read the reporter's lines in the auditions,
and he was like, wait a minute, I like the
sound of this. I like that it's you know, a

(01:01:39):
woman with those interesting these lines. And so it was
rewritten for the reporter to be a woman, and then
they made the changes that the backstory was that they
were formerly married now divorced, and which is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Also like, oh, you know, there's no other way to
get a woman into the story than his wife and
him to some extent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Right, So that's a little bit more of the context.
A little bit more is that in his comedies, Howard
Hawks would often let his actors improv some of their lines.
So this ability to improv allowed Rosalind Russell to basically

(01:02:24):
she hired a ghost writer to punch up some of
her dialogue because she felt that she didn't have nearly
as many like good lines or little quips or whatever
as Carrie Grant was given, because the screenwriters were like, well,
women are boring. The man should get all the good lines.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
And I didn't know this, This is so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yes, She talks about this in her autobiography entitled Life
is a Banquet. So she was upset that she wasn't
given as good of dialogue as the man. So she
hired a ghostwriter to punch up her lines. And because
they were allowed to improve a little bit, she would
not really improv because they had been pre written for her,
but she would slip in these lines. And the only

(01:03:06):
person who knew this was Carrie Grant, and so he
would like go to her on set every day to
be like, what have you got today? Meaning like, what
did the ghostwriter write for you for this scene?

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Oh? So, and so he was like supportive of it
and seem like he did.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
He didn't seem to like nark on her at least.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
That's so that's lovely mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
I mean sucks that she was not written to have
better lines in the original script, but cool that she
had the freedom to kind of and the instinct to
have better lines written for her.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
That's fascinating. I wonder how common a practice that would
have been. I mean that that makes a lot of
sense because you have so few women working as screenwriter.
I mean it speaks to completely to how much diversity
behind the scenes makes a difference that for the fact
that she had to out of pocket, I'm assuming hire
a ghost writer to write her better lines. I mean

(01:04:02):
money well spent ultimately shouldn't have been money she had
to spend. But like she I feel like, you know,
Carrie Grant, his character is evil and if you can
accept that, I think his performance is really really funny,
like there's like so many expressions or like Deliverered, I mean,
they're just both so good. The only person that is

(01:04:22):
better than them at any moment is Billy Gilbert Joe
Petty Bone, who just drowns them all and kills them yeah,
but I mean that's that's fascinating. And Rosalind Russell is
in another movie that we've been threatening to cover for
years that came out the year before The Women. She's
one of the women. Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah, we have

(01:04:47):
a couple other women in this movie, which again was
brave of the filmmakers. But now knowing that, that's fascinating
because you can tell that the rest of the women
in this movie are reading the dialogue is written, not
a criticism of them. No one should have to hire
another writer to write their lines better. But the other

(01:05:08):
three characters you have are I think the most prominent
is Molly molloy. You have Bruce's his mom, and you
have a character who appears very briefly named Evangeline I believe,
who is one of Walter's minions who he sends her again.

(01:05:29):
She's hanging out with the with Kevin's. It seems like
they're both minions on retainer for various illegal hijinks Walter
wants to pull.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Louis is the Kevin le Mignon. I think this other
this woman the not to reduce a woman to her
hair color, but that's what everyone else in the movie does.
But these she's blonde woman.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Yeah, hawks also has a whole thing about blondes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
I mean, gentlemen prefer them. Obviously, it's been said she
is I guess she's the Stewart or the Bob of
the group of the uncle. Yeah, and she I mean,
I guess I mean she is deployed in a gendered way, right,
because she is sent to seduce Bruce, seduce Bruce.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Bruce, Yeah, to get him arrested a second time, basically
like and I guess Hildy knows that this is a
part of Walter's minion playbook. Who knows if she has also,
you know, used It's unclear that because we only see
Hilldy returning to reporting, and we don't see what she
was like before, it's unclear how on board she is
with this stuff. I'm assuming, mih that's the feeling I

(01:06:37):
was gonna. Yeah, I still wouldn't say she's an ethical
reporter because the only reports we sear writing are fake,
but at least you know there is moral intent behind
them than a lot of the men she works with.
But yeah, we are given a name for this character.
Carrie Grant kind of mumbles it, so I had to
look it up, but her name is Evangeline. But then

(01:06:59):
she's just referred to as that blonde lady that is
paid to seduce people. So they go to jail question Mark,
So not much going on there. I would say Bruce's
mom's character is treated in a pretty ageist and gendered way.
You know, she's the hysterical mother even though she's right.

(01:07:23):
Obviously she's like which I mean it is? Is it
pity women against women? Yes, but Hildy is being despicable
to her son. Why would she side with Hildy in
this situation? She's just like, you are a little brat,
and she's like me, and then she gets kidnapped. She's like, well,
it's brat's summer, so what do you expect nineteen forty

(01:07:44):
brat summer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I would also argue that the way Molly Molloy jumps
out of a window is leaning into like women be hysterical.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Tropes, and that matches any read I think whether it
is being characterized as an attempt on her own life
or if it's being like as like a hysterical attempt
at escape, either way it leans into tropes around women.
And again I think that like Molly Malloy's character works

(01:08:16):
with the satirical bend to this story where she you
know her and earl her in a more gendered way,
which I feel like is at least an attempt or
maybe accidental commentary on how women are treated in reporting
of like, oh, she's a woman who he knew, so

(01:08:36):
of course we're going to make up that there was
like this whole affair and they're in love and blah
blah blah, and then they lie to her and say, well,
that's what Earle said when it's clear that that's not true.
Like and so she is. I can appreciate her character
where she is just beside herself that there is no

(01:08:56):
she cannot get anyone to take her seriously. She is
very much like upon in this narrative, a narrative that
she's on board with because she doesn't want Earle to
be killed, but you know, like no one is listening
to her, and the closest she can get to anyone
listening to her is when Hilty takes her aside and
takes her out of the room and sort of extracts

(01:09:17):
her from this really traumatic, upsetting situation she's in. But
even Hildy doesn't really do much to know. I think
she like calms her down, but doesn't do anything to
meaningfully alter that narrative. And we know because of how
you know like she what we know about Hildy. The
one thing I'll say for her is that she she

(01:09:38):
doesn't reproduce the sexist here's a woman, Earle knew, they're
in love, they have a loved as blah blah blah.
She does more accurately characterize Molly as someone who just
really cares about him and would be very upset if
he was killed by the government, which which is more true.

(01:10:01):
And that is like the I think, the most sort
of noble thing that Hildy does in the course of
the movie. But Hildy is still despicable in that, Like
her reporting is less bad than everyone else's, it's more
empathetic than everyone else's, but she still leaves this guy
to die in a desk, you know, after it makes

(01:10:23):
sense too, Like there's a part of like, at least
I like there there's a hyjinx portion where no one
can know Earls in the room because he'll be arrested
and then he'll be killed. Okay, fine, he has to
stay in the desk for that portion, but they also
leave him in the drawer while they're just having a
conversation about how she's going to win an award for
writing this, and while they're like hashing out their relationship,

(01:10:45):
like he is suffocating. So I don't know. But with Molly,
she's I don't know. Molly's just underwritten and under thought. Yeah.
I feel for her character because and I think that
like she is presented as a character who is worthy
of consideration, but like the writing just isn't there and
it falls into tropes around hysteria, and then ultimately the

(01:11:07):
plot does not care what happens to her after this
late And part of the reason that we don't know
what her motivation narratively is for jumping out of the
window is because we never hear about her again, right, yes,
because I think that all they say is like, oh,
we think she's going to make.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
It, Oh she moved, she wasn't killed, and yeah, we
don't know. We don't know if she survives or not.
I do like the monologue she gives to that group
of crime reporters where she's like, oh, you wouldn't give
me the time of day or listen to me until
it's like serving you and your story. Now you're listening
to me, that's some bullshit hypocrisy, and that's really cool.

(01:11:45):
But then again, two seconds later she jumps out of
a window and we never see her again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
So it's all very mellow, dramatic like the way it
plays at even though I yeah, I agree like that
what she's saying makes a lot of sense, and I
feel like, unfortunately, is still very applicable to true crime
reporting that you see today, which just is so largely
base and scary, with like the lack of consideration it

(01:12:11):
gives to anybody dead or alive. So it's definitely like
relevant commentary. But again it's like, because it's like written
and orchestrated by men, it just seems like they can't
help themselves. They as far as Earl himself goes, I
don't know. I feel like there are some tropes around

(01:12:33):
the working class in general at play, because the two
working class characters, or I guess the three working class
characters we get to know are Molly Molloy, who is
treated I think unkindly in a more gendered way, and
then with Earle and our boy Joe petty Bone, they're
just made out to be. They are made out to
be sympathetic, we're not rooting against them, but they're also
not made out to be very smart correct, and are

(01:12:56):
just being actively manipulated by politicians and journalists. And I
guess what I can say is that both of those
characters do seem aware that that's happening, because Joe Pettybone
comes back and is like, wait, no, fuck you, you
know I will I will not be bought.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
But he is presented as being like quite doofy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Exactly exactly I mean, And that's this actor's bread and butter.
And I do feel like the two working classmen that
we get to know are presented to be pretty malleable
and like easily manipulated and unintelligent, which is just never
a trope I like to see. It is I think
an attempt at commentary, but it certainly like rubbed me

(01:13:40):
very much the wrong way. The way that it's The
plot goes out of its way to say that Earl,
like we are led to believe that Earl, you know,
did shoot someone by mistake, but they go out of
their way to say that it was a cop who's
a person of color. I think we're led to believe
a black cop.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Yeah, the language they use, which is you know, very outdated,
but it's specific to black people, so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Right, And so they they mentioned that, and then the
attempt at commentary that follows is that politicians will want
to hang Earl whether he's guilty or not because they
value the black vote, which I don't know. I see
what they're going for, but it just is like, not,

(01:14:23):
it's not well done at all, especially because there are
no movie where no black people.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Black characters having any perspective on the matter whatsoever. Every
single actor and character we see is a white.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Person, so right. So it's like, you know, bringing race
into the conversation at all when there's not going to
be any attempt which I don't know, this is Hayes
code era, but it's still just like if if you
are unable or unwilling to cast any people of color
in your movie, that doesn't need to be there. I

(01:14:57):
don't know. It just felt like a throwaway attempt to
commentary that didn't sit very well with me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yeah, very of the era, Yeah, dud, do you have
anything else you wanted to talk about?

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Ultimately, I feel like the real tricky thing for me
with this movie is making Hildy's career that she does
seem to love inextricable with this marriage that she's being
coerced into re entering. Just makes this, you know, at

(01:15:37):
least from an analytical point, I still think it's a
blast to watch. I'll watch it again. It's a movie
to watch with soup, I think. But yeah, as a
feminist work, it just making those two things inextricable from
each other. It just, you know, it's unfortunate because I
think it is preventable.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
I think there could be a modern retelling of this
that using a lot of the same kind of foundational
story beats, could be a feminist text, but this was
nineteen forty, so it was never really gonna happen that way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Yeah, but I do. I mean, it's like I also
just like I'm a sucker for a movie about girl reporters,
girls spies, blah blah blah, Like I'd love it all.
I'm a sucker for it. And it's a bummer when
I mean, I guess, you know, going into nineteen a
movie made at this time, you don't really expect a

(01:16:31):
feminist masterpiece, but it's this movie feels like it's teasing
you with the fact that, with some adjustment, it could
have been way closer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Yeah, and for all we know, it might have been
considered a feminist masterpiece in nineteen forty.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
For the time it might have been, because I mean, yeah,
hard to.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Say, we're way too young, we would We don't know
if we were.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
We weren't alive in nineteen forty.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Yeah. So this movie, as we've already hinted at, does
pass the Bechdel test.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Kind of very fleetingly, but in a way that does
feel plot relevant because it's between Hildy and Molly, and
those those are consequential interactions, but they're brief.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Right, And then when Hildy speaks to her mother in law,
Missus Bruce whatever, Missus Baldwin, I think it's always about Bruce.
So yeah, that's never gonna work.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
As far as our nipple scale, where we rate the
movie zero to five nipples based on examining the movie
through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll give it like a
one point five, maybe a two, because of what it
seemed to be attempting to do. As far as like, look,

(01:17:51):
a woman can have a career but it's presented as
though she doesn't actually know what she wants, and it
takes a bunch of men to convince her what she wants,
because a woman can't be trusted to know what she
desires for herself and her life. Oh and the fact
that as I was watching this and seeing all of

(01:18:13):
the horrible things that Walter the carry Grant character does
and says repeatedly in every single scene he's in, I
was like, if she ends up with him, I'm gonna
be so pissed, even though I knew that was bound
to happen. And then she does, and I was so pissed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
But by the end, I'm not even convinced that she
deserves better. Now, that's not something she does deserve better,
But it's like she does so many garbage things. I
don't know. I don't know. It's the way she treats Bruce,
not me being team Bruce, but like unforgivable. The crime
of being boring does should not lead you in jail
three times in a day.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Yeah, and you know, left by the person who was
supposed to marry you tomorrow and all his money is
gone and his money's gone.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
The crime of being boring, unreal.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
The other thing I have to say about this movie
is so Howard Hawks was. He was very interested in
like overlapping dialogue. He thought it resembled the way people
actually speak more realistically, which is true. Yeah, but he
was determined to break the record for fastest film dialogue,

(01:19:20):
which was a thing I guess, the Olympics of film dialogue.
He wanted to get the gold medal. And I am
reminded of a quote from one of my favorite movies
which I just rewatched last night, Jurassic Park. And here's
what I'll say. The director was so preoccupied with whether

(01:19:40):
or not he could he didn't stop to think if
he should trying to break this record for fast It
gave me such a I had such a headache after
watching this. I didn't know what anyone was saying. I
couldn't parse out anything, so headache inducing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Different strokes Baby at think air Rocks bring it back.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
I don't mind like quippy, fast back and forth dialogue,
but there are some scenes where ten people are talking
all at once, and I just I was like, to
what end? I can't I don't know what any of
you say.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
Making Jamie smile, Marylyn frown. Wow. Another classic episode of
the Basketball Cast.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
So true anyway, I'll give it one and a half nipples.
I think it seemed feminist ish for the time, for
nineteen forty, but obviously nearly one hundred years later doesn't
really cut the mustard. Is that an expression?

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
I think it's an old timey It sounds like an
old timey expression.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Appropriate. And I'll give one nipple to Rosalind Russell, and
I'll give my half nipple to Joe pettibone.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
King of him, King Joe Pettybone. I'm going to get
I'm going to do this, but done the middle. I'm
gonna give this two and a half nipples. I think that,
you know, taking into consideration the time, the two and
a half nipples are cleanly cut off by the fact
that really the whole of this character's false, like Hildy's
false liberation is you know, her being kind of pulled

(01:21:18):
back in by this manipulative x husband and predatory system. However,
for the time, I think you're seeing so much of
you know, like women's agency and capability that wasn't considered
kind of verboten in a lot of earlier movies. There's
no time in this movie, which I feel like also

(01:21:38):
in any sort of I mean, this is a rom com,
but it's also a crime movie, which is interesting. But
we don't see Hildy ever damseled in any way. We
see her actively moving the story forward. She's really good
at her job. I mean, even though a lot of
this is surface level, I think for the time the
surface level is pretty subversive, and I like that Rosalind Russell.

(01:21:59):
I hate that she had to resort to having to
pay someone under the table to give her good lines,
but I love that her performance, I mean, almost against
the wishes of the creatives. She steals the show except
when Joe Pettibone is in the room, and then she
loses those scenes. But she, for me, like steals every scene.
She's in such an amazing performance. I love movies about

(01:22:22):
women journalists, so kind of a sucker for this stuff
plenty to be desired. You couldn't call it a feminist movie,
but I do think that it's subversive, and I want
to give it some credit for I think really effective
and unfortunately still relevant commentary around how politics and media
are inextricably linked in a way that makes it impossible

(01:22:42):
to get justice on fair terms. So I'm going to
give it two and a half nibbles. I'm going to
give one to Rosalind Russell. I'm going to give one
to Slim Keith, who Howard Hawks was married to, I
believe at the tie or he was dating at the time,
who was just a really fascinating historical figure who later

(01:23:04):
gets entrenched into the world of Truman Capote's Swans, which
was there was a terrible mini series about earlier this year,
but a really great book that I read. And she's
just like a fascinating person who was said to be
sort of an inspiration for a lot of haxy and
women as someone who was very self possessed and assertive

(01:23:27):
and cool. And I will give the other half nipple,
of course to King Joe Patty Bone, mister Sneeze himself.
We love him. It is ultimately his movie.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Yeah, no arguing that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
And that is his Girl Fridays, Wow Friday. I know
it's because I would say his his fems on Friday
was what I was going to say about us.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
I think it's about the restaurant franchise Fridays, His Girl Fridays.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Tgi Friday Wow Wow. And it makes you think it does.
You can watch this movie also. If you haven't seen
this movie, I would still recommend it. I mean, and
you can watch it really wherever because it's in the
public domain. I watched it on to b Wow. To
be or not to be?

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
That is the question.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
I just love watching eighty commercials, so I watched it
on to be. But you can watch it like ad
free in a lot of places. All right, Caitlin, I
guess that that that's that's a case cracked. Let's get
married in Niagara Fall.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
That's all, folks. This is not a Learney Tunes. I
don't know why I said that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Well, if you'd like to hear more of our basic
reparte right up there with Howard Hawks's Best, you could
follow our Patriot aka Matreon joined for five dollars a month,
which will get you access to two new episodes a
month with Kaitlyn and myself about frequently requested episodes, often

(01:25:02):
on a ridiculous the Way Makeup, and it also gives
you access to over one hundred and fifty episodes in
our back catalog. How do you like that?

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
I love that. Yes, thank you so much for listening.
You can also follow us on Instagram. At Bechdel Cast
you can buy our Little merch designed by Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Ever heard of her, The Little merch Maid. Yeah, I'm sorry,
I'm riding on this negative COVID test. Let's get silly.
I'm going to go see trap.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
Wow Yeah Merch at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel
Cast and we'll see you back here next week. Yes see,
so long, So long, folks, see yes see, bye bye.

(01:25:57):
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeart Media, hosted
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edited by Moe laboord. Our theme song was composed by
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(01:26:20):
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