October 26, 2017 • 60 mins
Not only are Caitlin and Jamie podcasters, they are also spell-casters! Listen to this Hocus Pocus episode with special guest Danielle Perez or they will turn you into an eight-nippled cat!
(This episode contains spoilers)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef in
best start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hey,
beck Tol Cast listeners, It's me Caitlin jam and we're
here to once again remind you about our new Patreon.
(00:23):
That's right, we started a Patreon page, which, if you
haven't heard of, it is a subscription service that allows
you to pledge us five bucks a month and get
to you to telling them to extra episodes of the
Bectel Castle for patrons only. What a damn good special.
That's a damn good special. Fund Twin Peaks reference. Yeah,
(00:43):
and if if you're not subscribing to that, you were,
I mean, you're missing out. Like you'll still get access
for free to our regular Thursday episodes. That's great, right,
But it's five bucks. That's like one overpriced coffee back
ridge a month. Yea, just just don't buy that from
your life. That's one tall boy PBR at an event
(01:08):
you don't even want to be at. It's too Mike's
hard lemonades. It's that's I mean, to be fair of
Mike's hard lemonades very easily, right, So you can either
I mean splurt, treat yourself, have two mics, and subscribe
to our Patreon. It's an amazing deal. We want it
helps us fund our show. We so far, I've been
(01:28):
putting our own money into the show and volunteering our
time because we love you and we love the podcast.
But we'd love to also see the podcast at festivals
and on the road. Let's say you live in Bloomington, Indiana, Sure,
and you want us to come to you if you
subscribe our Patreon, we might have money to do that.
And it's only because you get bonus stuff and we
(01:50):
get to make more episodes, and just consider it. We'd
appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Enjoy the hocus Pocus episode the
Cat That's cough Syrup, which basically tastes the same as
Mike's hard lemonade. True, that's the line I have ready today.
(02:10):
I'm sick today, and my name is Jamie and my
name is Caitlin, and this is the Bechtel ship Man. No,
it's okay, you started it going go ahead. Oh, I
was just gonna say it's the Bechtel Cast. And it's
our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. That
there's no there's no getting around it. There's nothing else
(02:30):
that could be about. God, what a day? What a
dramatic day. So you're sick, I'm sick. I'm like and
I'm like in a floaty phase of sick where I'm
just like, I'm googling Cathy and Jamie anywhere and everywhere.
I'm not sick, but I mean physically, emotionally and mentally,
I'm not doing great. But who is Hey, you know
(02:53):
has been a trial? A trial? You said, there's there's
two shows on television right now with Kevin in the title.
You know, we're all suffering, suffering. What is it? Kevin
Can Wait? Kevin Can Wait a season two which actually
apparently is supposed to be kind of wild because they
kill off Kevin James's wife at the end of season one,
(03:15):
and then season two there's a time jump in there
and it's like, now he's dating Leah Remini. It's like, oh,
it's just King of Queen's again. But there and then
the other one is called Kevin Save the World. Probably
that's not exactly what it is, but it's about something
about it's a white guy and they're like your God,
which is like, do we need to be perpetuating that?
(03:37):
Probably not anyways, lots of Kevin based entertainment, No thanks
said before. Yes, not a big fan of most Kevin's.
I'm sure there are exceptions. We as a nation don't
respond well to Kevin's. I don't know why they keep trying.
Kevin Spacey is the worst actor available and any given time.
(03:58):
I liked him in seven, but mostly because you don't
see him from most of the movie. Anyway, Um, let's talk.
It didn't pass the backtel Castle. I was literally lifted
it from us. Let's introduce our guest. Let's do it.
She is a member of five Gap Comedy. She runs
(04:19):
a show called Gentrification. She's a hilarious comedian. Danielle Perez. Hey, ladies,
thanks for coming. Oh man, that intro was intense. Well, yeah,
there's a lot. We're all mentally ill or maybe I
don't want to project mine everyone, but I think we are.
(04:41):
We're all dealing with PTSD in some way, shape orfore
very sick. The proliferans proliference. Wow, there it is. Let's
just sure. Lots of Kevin's that's too much. And then
the Chris is like, don't even Pine, get out, like
(05:01):
we gotta getta you have nice teeth, more like Hen's
worth list. There you go, there you go. That is
another Chris. We don't need Chris, come on, Chris's Kevin's
con sit down, Conna leaves Kevin Kevin conn Kevin, who's
that Entourage? Right? Too many? And I think his name
(05:21):
was I his name was e No, it was like
I thought it was another scene. It was like, you
know what, Eric, Eric whatever. The fact that I know
any Entourage character makes me want to die. Kevin James, Kevin,
Kevin Costner, Kevin's Ken of all time, Kevin Costner. You
(05:43):
think I hate Ken? I really spacey? I say, I'm
a I'm way more of a fan of space You.
Len Klein, I like, oh, I do like Kevin and
his daughter is like one of my favorite musicians, which
ones Kevin. Kevin Klein is the voice of Phoebus in
A Hundredbag of Notre Dame. Why other things I know
I'm from. He's in Sophie's Choice, He's in a fish
(06:08):
called Wanda good for him, some other stuff. Anyways, let's
talk about movies, like specifically the one that we're supposed
to be talking about, spooky creeky door Halloween months, I'm
going to make a Jack olint or no, Alfred Molina
(06:29):
with a fever. I shouldn't have a knife. You're like,
this is the Halloween. We just end it all. Let's true,
this is probably the last Halloween. So well, it's been
pressing episodes. So thinking by yourself this time last year
(06:50):
and you're just like, what, who is that? Oh my god?
I was in such a better place. Yeah, I was
in a horrible place this time last year and somehow
still better. Like, yeah, I was in Portland for a week,
and then I was in Minneapolis for a week. I
was I was on the road traveling, and now I'm
just sleeping in my car because I gave someone a
(07:13):
ride and then they put my wheelchair in the back
seat and I was like, oh, well, I can't get
out of my car now. Oh my god, Like scho
why didn't you call someone because it was like one
in the morning. I guess, yeah, that's true. Caitlin is
so irritated. She's like, we're very off track. We're very
off bab I know that that's the vibe I'm giving off. Hey,
(07:36):
what a time to talk about hocuspoke Focus. Daniel, what's
your relationship your history with this movie? I liked it
a lot. I don't think I saw it in theaters
because I was like, it came out of ninety three,
I was like eight. I think I just saw it
at a friend's house or something like that. But I
remember seeing it when I was like little and liking
(07:57):
it a lot because I liked Witches. Sure, which, when
did you foresee it on Disney Channel in middle school
at a sleepover, saw it again sometime in high school,
then saw it again at your house law side. Yeah,
that's cute, so it was fun fun viewing. Yeah, I
(08:18):
didn't see it for the first time until well into adulthood.
I saw it for the first time like four years ago.
What was the situation? Um put us put us there?
My my my best pal j T, who you might remember,
friend of the episode. He's like, how have you never
seen hocus Pocus? I think he had it on DVD
(08:40):
and we're like, I don't remember if it was Halloween
time or not. But he was just like, there was
a sense of urgency that I needed to see it.
Right away, I like around Halloween time as an adult. Yeah,
all right, here's the recap for hocus Pocus. There are
these three witches, their sisters that Middler, Cathin and Jamie
twenty nine year old Sarah Jessica Parker Sanderson sister there,
(09:05):
which is in the height of like Salem witch Child,
like seventeen century Salem, Massachusetts, and they're conjuring this spell
so that they can live forever. It literally sounds like
a biopic of Madonna. I'm going to drink the blood
of young people so as to live forever. And so
there's this one child who they've kidnapped and they have
(09:27):
this potion and they're about to like try to live forever.
But all these people come they're like, no, we're which
is well, it's her brother. Her brother tries to be
like hero, tries just save her. But then all the
townspeople are like wearing a white blouse like everyone. That's
how you know everyone's wearing a blouse is which is
very nineties of him, even though it's coppening at it's weird.
(09:51):
This is the nine version of He's like a JTT
but olden times that's what talking. And I was like,
wait is that? Because I was thinking I was like, yes,
it's Devon's all on this. I was like, no, it's
another adorable white boy with like that same kind of
bowl hair. It's the dirty bond hair and the blue
eyes that was if you didn't features, yeah, like a
(10:12):
sheer blouse. So like, what is going on? Like? Am
I turned on right? Like this is happening? I know?
It's like it's like I'm an adult woman when he's
so clearly a child. But it's like he's a cuteiet cute,
he's cute. Yeah, he's fine. Um wow, Okay, it's too
good for So the townspeople come and they hang the witches,
(10:38):
but they cast this spell that if a virgin lights
a candle on All Hallows Eve, they'll be able to return.
So and then they turned to the boy who tries
to save his sister into a cat Sachary Banks. He
goes from having two nipples as a human to eight
nipples as a cat. This has been cat facts with
Caitlin early and then so she's like, don't give me
(11:01):
that blast because those sweetness done by the cat version
of the twelve year old boys as a cat? Are
you were you also into the robin Hood, the Disney
animated robin Hood where their foxes. No, I'm not animals
name let's tell how Yeah he was. Let's get the
(11:24):
record straight. I'm not attracted to animals. Just became the first.
I can't believe I have to clarify this, but I
want you all to know. I literally for talking about
cat nipples. That's like a really hard argument today, fair point.
I'm just explaining scientific facts. Okay. So that's the first
(11:47):
seven minutes of the movie. Flash forward to three years later.
It's still set in Salem, Massachusetts. There's this boy, but
this time they're time's laid back in from cat He's
Los Angeles? Was that l a Hollywood? I like it?
Then then they got those little meathead Massachusetts boys are
(12:08):
like California, California anyway. So the new kid, Max Dennison,
moved to town. He's like, oh, this Salem, which stuff
is stupid, but he there's a hawkerl in his class
who likes it. So he's like, Okay, I'll be into it.
And he has a little sister, Danny, who she's like birch, Yeah,
just adorable lipstick. She's got the he looks so good
(12:34):
throughout the entire film. I'm like, stop it. Who did
her hair man? Who did her makeup? Litick banana, angelic
and beautiful. Yeah, I didn't tussle, just perfectly tussled throughout
the entire film. I never realized, like the last time
I saw this like ten years ago, like I wasn't
able to appreciate it was thora Bert. Now we know
(12:56):
she steals the show. She's so good. Yeah, she's really
still the show. She's great. Man. So Max is like,
I'll fine, I'll take you trigger treating because it's Halloween night,
and they stumble upon the Allison Hot Girl's Hot Alison's
house and waiting the staircase is a ball Gownd saying, oh, hi,
(13:19):
like this is would you like some cider? Like okay, question,
we've all been trigger treating. Who the funk gets invited
into a people's homes when they do that and asked
if they want cider? Like that just like it happens
at all. There's that moment where it's like, oh, they're
rich people that probably make us drink cider and sure enough,
(13:41):
like is that a stereotype for rich people? People off
the street drink of their cider. Why are they and please?
I saw their house and they were unpacking. They look
pretty loaded to me too. Has a staircase in his
bedroom right a drum. He has a new Nike cross trainers.
(14:04):
They're facts. Salem is a very wealthy town, is it? Yeah?
So anyway, I guess it was really funny finding out
what Disney thinks like rich people are like when when
the baseline of all their families is already wealth Anyway,
so they convinced. Max is like, oh, what an opportunity
(14:26):
for me to bond with hot Allison. If we go
to the witch's house. Do we talk about how he
humped humped the pillow? He did not know? That's a
great entrance in this movie is so crazy. She's hiding
in the closet and then she walks in on Max
because he gets home. Alison local history is so interesting
(14:49):
out comes story and she's like, I was like, are
you guys going to hook up? What's happening? That was wild?
She gets like where the pillow was? Just like I'm
Alice and used me like, oh no, that's your brother.
Thora is very horny in this movie. It's everyone this
is dead well horny dead well, but because it's a
(15:12):
Kenny Ortega joint for his horny depth. He's known for
the High School Musical Trilogy of pretty Horny Trilogy, I'd
argue I was reading theories about him on the internet today.
Some people say he's hooked up with Gene Kelly, Kenny Ortega.
I know he's amazing. He's alleged. Is he sixty seven
(15:33):
years old and so well preserved? Yeah, I haven't aged
a day. He's drinking potions. I want to know what
children he's been drinking the blood of Yeah, Like, let's
zach Efron. That's why he has him in all the movies.
He's like took his fans to Zach. It sucked out
(15:58):
a couple of years out of the Definitely we kind
of zach A just aged all of a sudden. It
could have been, Yeah, it's just what we're seeing like
pre pubescent, like to like, I'm going, yeah, what was
the movie where that happened for him where it was
like I'm I'm hot. I think like Neighbors. There was
(16:19):
like a Grandpa movie, Bad Grandpa. I've never seen a
friend movie that's totally watched every single movie that he's in,
really love zach Efron Zach, if you're out there, we
want we have I have a question, which is to
your nex suck your blood. Hey, look back to hocus
a pokish. Sorry. They go to the witch's house. Virgin
(16:44):
Max light hands no one like. They all make fun
of him for being a virgin, but he's fine. He's
like okay, He's like, yeah, virgin Like. He offers it
to the hot girl Allison, to light and she's like
nothing because she's like yeah, not like you lose theer.
(17:06):
He's like, okay, I'll do it. I'll don't it. So
he lights the candle and it brings back the three
witches and then they recap. So there, Oh, there's speaking
of horny nous. Here's who is everyone? Who's horny? Max
for Alison, maybe Thor Birch for her brother, Bett Middler
for her book she wants, and then Sarah Jessica Parker
(17:33):
for everyone everyone. Yeah, I like the horny bust driver too,
Horny bust driver, Horny Satan. Yes, everyone is extremely horny.
There's got to be someone out there named Horny Sade.
You're out there all right, let me get through the
rest of the story very fast. So the which has
(17:53):
come back. They're like, crap, we are only gonna be
able to stay alive for a day unless we can
make this potion again. But the book has stolen from them.
They try to get the book back because it has
a recipe for the potion that lets them live forever,
and then just like they don't remember. Yeah, it's like
you're a witch. I don't really get that reliance on
the book. It's at what point do you for so
(18:16):
many hundreds of years time it's go time, it's show time.
Like you can't just say, oh, the most important spell.
I haven't written down something that's going to keep me
alive forever, which really matters. So that, yeah, it doesn't
make sense that they haven't memorized. I remember like half
(18:37):
of it. It wasn't a long spell. It was a
toe of a of a dead man. And then they
like spitting it part of their stuff. Yeah, thirty minutes
or less. Rachel Ray like just live forever anyway, So
they're trying to get their book back and then they're
(18:57):
like no, and then they try to burn the witches
and that doesn't work, and then finally they're able to
defeat them. That facary binks comes back as a cat
and he talks, He talks and then which is scary
to me. You right, we learned from the Men in
Black episode that's not you're not a fan of I
was kind of horny for him as a cat to
the cat, really, ocar two are you saying? In addition
(19:20):
to me, I still want to clarify I'm not horny,
you know. We're actually just like sitting there and Kayle
was just like, it's crazy how much I want to
fun this cat? Like can you not? It's like, well,
I'm right next to you. Please keep your horny thoughts
to yourself. A lot of horny day this is Is
this an actor's film or is this a tone poem?
(19:43):
That's what I have to ask myself. At the beginning,
I would say, ken you or take a body of
work is more of a tone wol you say that?
But when Bette Midler's and it suddenly it's an actor's
hidden She's giving us range and depth. I know because
there's her ugly before they drink of the potion and
(20:03):
then different they look. How different to their hair is
just a little bit more, but their hair is better
like this shape. But they also it is it's like
they took all the really poorly applied special effects makeup
and prosthetics and just kind of sleft it off right right,
so it's still unattractive. Someone took a baby wipe to
(20:27):
them and they're like, we did it. We killed a child.
Now we looked two percent nicer. Maybe it's a bones thing.
Maybe their bones hurt. And then I'm just throwing it out. Sure,
which is have bones? Yeah, but isn't that the whole
thing about them? Like floating? Oh maybe they have hollow
(20:48):
bones like bird bones, but they're so strong. Look, I'm
not writing the rules of which is I don't know.
She res so finely. They destroy the witches and everything's
fine and Tha Gary Banks gets to return to his
like ghost form and everything's great and uh and then
is there a kiss? At the ages to die? Which die?
(21:12):
There's kiss? There's a weird spooney thing we were taught. Okay,
we were saying, what's his name? Max? Max must have
been doing some serious, like the Secret style manifesting, because
this day in the afternoon, he's like humping his pillow
thinking about this girl. Fast forward like eight hours later,
(21:32):
she's in his freaking arms. It's been and it's been
taking a little nat reclining on the formerly humped pillow question. Okay, ladies,
we were all sixteen year old horny girls. Have you
ever taken a pillow and been like a person at
school who I really like tried that yesterday? There. Yeah.
(22:01):
I was kind of surprised they like did it because
it's a Disney film and it's if it is something
very high school that you do. It was weird. I mean,
I do not to talk about a twelve year old
characters sexuality. He's probably like fifty. I think he's like
SIXTI oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, I feel better. Okay,
(22:21):
so let's talk about his sexual developing manhood. I it
looks so upset. She's like, let's go back to catball. Hang.
I know that Catlin would rather be sucking on a
cat now, But I think we need to talk about
masculinity there or in Trouble Today or okay, okay, but
(22:49):
but truly we I mean, obviously point of this podcast
is to talk about female characters, but I think portrayal
of masculinity also is super important, and this was I
thought a pretty good one in terms of like Max
is a sixteen year old and a version which is
not uncommon like and on average, I think men tend
(23:11):
to lose their virginity later than women do. But I
thought it was kind of cool to see a young
male character who was like, I'm a virgin. I'll light
this candle whatever I'm I'll do the inciting incident of
the movie because I've never fucked before. I thought that
was nice. And even when people were giving him shit
about it, he never got like like I'm gonna go
(23:32):
I'm a monster now. But I thought that that was
like a pleasant part of this movie. It's like, we
have a virgin male and everyone like even when people
aren't cool with it, like the guy who's the guy
who's talking to the fake police officer, he was like,
but that was a weird interaction where he was like, yeah,
I'm a virgin and the police officer was like really
(23:53):
and then like, how are you not inside a woman
right now? Like the application was weird, Like he wasn't like,
oh you suck you was just like, but you're so hot.
It was But anyways, I liked Max's character for that. Yeah,
because you see so often in media where like young
boys are like I gotta lose my virginity. It's like
(24:15):
this thing and being a virgin's name, and it's makes
me a loser. So it's nice to see him like
maybe not necessarily embrace it, but to be okay with
it and corny virgin and he doesn't care. Yeah, because
it gets brought up like four or five different times
in the movie where you're a virgin and he's like, huh,
I mean he got a lot accomplished by never fucking
(24:36):
in that movie. Yeah, you see that like portrayal of
like virgins being lame. So I'm like, yeah, a good
point in this movie. Like he's it's fine with it.
It's weird. It's nice to see it around the hero, right,
And I was just at the end of the day,
he's still like a hot kid. He's going to be
fine though that I should the beginning, not not top
(25:02):
it much. I like and I like them. I mean,
I'm just I'm DNA programmed to love little meathead Massachusetts
boys like what you liked ice in the back roum
literally people I went to fourth grade with, Like did
you ever did you go to school with kids who
(25:23):
would have the Nike swoosh just shaved and that are
like a lightning bullet. Yeah. Now, I went to school
in Los Angeles, California Callie Boys. Maybe that's why I
like it's okay right right, because you know, because you
know that laid back Callie vibe. Man. I still I
still kind of find it exotic and exciting. And then
and then whereas like I'm used to ice, sure dumb
(25:47):
dumb like you won't go watch a hockey game like dumbass.
So I know we've only talked about men's so far,
the bail characters, but I'm going to do it some more. Um,
So we were like, okay, who is the protagonists movie?
Is it? Winnie Sanderson? Bette Midler's character not really choose
the main antagonist. The protagonist is Max, which means this
(26:10):
is like a boy's story told from a boy's perspective.
There are right, he doesn't have like another boy except
for Thackeray the Cat and Billy Butcherson the Zombie. Well,
but then you've bat the argument that it was that
Grey the Cat's movie. Yes, well, each character is pretty
active arguments. Things are about to get very serious. Whose
(26:34):
movie is focus? Ultimately? Is Kenny Ortegas Ultimately but I mean,
the movie is remembered for the three Witches, but they
are the antagonistic force of the movie. We're not rooting
for them. Rights is barely in Beetle Juice. Yes, you
can come in minutes in. Oh, that's a strong case
(26:56):
to make me watch it. Yeah, Beatlee feminist icon. So
we yeah, we remember this story for like the three
Witches mostly, but it's like Max's story, which is kind
of weird to think about. But I would make the
argument that all of the female characters are just as active,
if not more so than him, and moving the story forward.
(27:19):
She doesn't watch, and Alice actually does a lot because
she in the very beginning, whenever they conjure the witches back,
she like hits one of them with a broom and
then a frying pan and actually like saves the two
girls have to save Max, and that he doesn't. It's
been established that Max the Virgin cannot fight. Yeah, held
(27:41):
up in a cemetery for his Nike Cross trainers. But
his buddy, your boyfriend, he's actually on his way. I
wish I could say that said, seriously, my boyfriend Ice
is like picking me up, so I can't stay. I
(28:04):
was so happy for you. It is so really happy
for you both, but like, yeah, he doesn't, like he
gets like shook down for his shoes, and then a
contrast of like toxic masculinity versus like whatever whatever, the
don't know. But then they're like trigger treating and then
it's like Ice and like a larger group, And I
(28:26):
do love that thora Birch's character. It's like my I'm
here with my big brother, so even to watch yourselves
and the big he's actually just take my candy and
please listen. Because Ice is an extremely strong female protagonist,
(28:47):
so that we see the trope over and over of
men having the same women, which happens in the beginning
with Thacary trying actually failing to save his little sister Emily.
But then the next time we see a thing like that,
it's Allison and Danny having to save Max and then
he like gets his composure whatever, and he's like, oh,
the burning reign of death and like they're able to escape.
(29:10):
But like it was cool to you see Allison and
Danny like save they are, yeah, the team exactly. But
then it's also later on it's Allison who comes up
with the idea to burn the witches, which proves unsuccessful,
but she was at least like active women tearing down women.
(29:30):
She is, Um, how do we feel about them wanting
to deny the witches and what they want? They're fully
actualized women, I mean, but they're doing it at the
expense of the lives of children. So do we cares
(29:53):
a culture? Do we need children? At this point? It's
just cruel to keep having them? Right? Yeah, Like, well,
you know, shout out to all those newborn babies. Are
we going to talk? Are we talking about the wishes?
Well yeah, yeah, yeah, Well one last So Alison has
the idea to burn the witches, and then she at
(30:13):
the end figures out what the witches are trying to
do with like conjuring on the children to suck the
life force out of them or whatever. So like she's
not the protagonist necessarily, but she plays an active role.
So it's nice because a lot of times you see
a supporting character like that pretty much just tagging along
and not doing anything. So you see her doing stuff
and like influencing the story. So I like that a lot.
(30:34):
I know I didn't appreciate because like she is the
brains of a lot of what's happening because like her
mom worked at the Witch right, And there's that scene
in the classroom where he's like, Halloween has invented by
the candy companies. I'm wearing a T shirt on the
hippie and she's like, yeah, actually, drop some knowledge on you.
Actually you live in Salem, Massachusetts. You fucking lit really
(31:00):
Halloween times women have died. Yeah, people are dying, Okay,
But I didn't like how the cat Thackeray was the
one that like led them to the cemetery and was like,
which is can touch hallowed ground? And it's like she
would know that. I feel like he stepped on Allison's
fact knowledge and that just she probably knew that already
(31:22):
because she knew about the salt well, she had to
read it from the book. She didn't learn about that
until they opened up the book at the end. Yeah,
you would think Alison would know more because of that museum.
And then she told Danny, like Flora Burges's character, like
I love witches and it's like I don't know more
about it, right, look it up. Kind of crystals are
you working with? I don't. I can't imagine anything that's strong, right,
(31:47):
So the Witches Kathy and Jamie who Okay, I have
a little bit of a problem with her character because
she's basically she's like very horny and she basically does
not thing. And then she's just like she's like perpetuating
like the dumb blonde bimbo stereotype. Yes, and an egregious wig.
(32:08):
No less than you. But she does get to use
her Broadway singing voice to conjure the children. Oh yes, yes, no,
well Sarah did she She got cast in Annie when
she was really young. Of course she's an Annie. Sarah God,
(32:32):
I like Sarah a lot. That's her character's name too.
It is that is fully betting out Kenny Artego is
just like here's some fake teeth, do whatever you want,
fake teeth in a wig. Go crazy and she is great.
And another thing is that it drives me crazy when
(32:54):
Broadway stars are put in movies, and it's like, it
would just be so so easy for you to give
us one scene them singing just a little bit, and
we get it. We get it, Yeah, we got it,
And it's so good remembered about the movie, it's pretty great.
But in terms of like their characters, I mean, like
obviously Winifred Sanderson. Bette Mallard's character is like the brains
(33:18):
the operation. The other two are just sort of like her.
Can't taste right. It's so between the three of them, Yeah,
they can't even do any memorize. Okay, let's try the
three of us right now to memorize a spell. We can't.
I mean, well, that's like my whole issue with Charmed.
It's like, there's three of you. You guys can't figure
(33:40):
out one spell between the three of you. Is your favorite?
Which on Charmed? I liked Rose McGowan just because I
liked her to She's great. She's great, I did. I
love Piper and then and I love her own Pretty
Little Liars as the mom too. She stars I'm Pretty
(34:00):
Little Liars every it's like Piper your Magic. Would it
surprise you to know that I've not seen either of
those shows. I don't ever seen charts. I don't we
have a TV podcast. I watched a lot of TV.
I can talk to you about sex in this City. Yeah,
I haven't seen so upset, I so distraught. You're ringing
(34:23):
at the thought of a Samantha. I'm in, I'm a Miranda,
You're you're a Charlotte Bird sick Bird. I'm actually a
Raphael because as far as I'm concerned, I'm Chris, no teenager.
(34:45):
And Turtles is a better version of Sex in the City. Okay, God,
they're all in New York. We're going to let you
on fire. I made a sketch called sex in the
Stewart and it's all of the Ninja Turtles as Sex
in the City characters and we just talk about turtle
sex pond. I'll share it on Twitter. It's probably the
best thing I've ever the world contest. Wow, that's honestly amazing.
(35:10):
Last meeting, I want me back, all right. I want
to talk about witchcraft and how it's a thing that
like men in history have been like, oh no, a
woman with agency and like identity, fuck her, she's a witch. Um.
I was trying to read it up on like the
(35:31):
Salem witch trials and stuff like that, and then I
forgot to finish. So I don't know if I will
be making any useful points, but I think it's worth Okay,
starting No one, Act one, Seen one, but yeah, I
think it's just worth noting that throughout history women have
(35:53):
been persecuted because they were thought to be witches, And
it was mostly just because they were like maybe practicing
some like pagan rituals, but like what like who can
like like they were maybe vegans, they gotta die. It
was like a lot of midwives. So it's like women
who were older, maybe didn't have children, but who had
(36:16):
like knowledge of like the female body and like what
it could do and how to like help it and
so yeah, it's like this knowledge that we don't possess,
and I'm scared of it now and I got to
have someone to blame. Isn't it funny how that's still
happening right now? The GOP is like, hey, no abortions,
no birth control, no health care. Literally, I feel like
(36:40):
I know that there's currently no tests for like congress
or presidency, but like they should be having to take
at least like some sort of like sex one oh
one because they don't. I don't think many of them
even know how like the female reproductive system works the
way just the things they say, it's great. Like there's
(37:03):
a senator I don't remember which one, but who see
the one that's like, well, you know, the body is
a way of showing that whole rape thing down. Yeah, yeah,
what are you what? What do I have? Venom? Like?
What is what is the thing that you know that
I don't know? It was a senator who had just
voted that, you know, women can't get abortions anymore, and
(37:24):
then asked his mistress to be like, actually you need
to get another planned parenthood that I'm actively trying to
shut down, Like fuck off. Yeah, oh this is the
worst timeline gang, this is it. This is the darkest one.
But his focus right, Um, So that and then I
wanted to mention that a lot of female movie villains
(37:45):
are witches, which, like, you know, maybe perpetuating this idea
that like, well, because witches are like vilified. I mean
I've seen as like an evil yeah, but a dark
sided cream, which is bad, but it's also just like uncreative.
It's like, oh, we need a female villain and she's
a witch. It's like we don't save the day. Yeah.
(38:06):
Well there's good witches in film and TV, but it
is really good get rules. Anyways, It's weird that it
just occurred to me. I'm like, oh, so for this
whole movie. Weird to assume that a the Salem witch
trials were totally legit because the witches were actually that
in drinking the blood of children. I was like, whoa,
(38:27):
that is actually an insanely backwards thing to open the
movie with. It's like, well, clear as we all know,
the Salem witch Trials were a glowing moment in American history,
and we were right favorite like what that. I didn't
even think of it that way. I just wanted to
see Ben Middler in an I party. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
that's wild. It's weird. It's really wild. Yeah, where it's
(38:48):
a couple they deserve to die. Yeah, they were trying
to eat those children, right, Like, what were they doing
in that cabin? They're probably trying to kill a kid. Uh,
we better and then we see them get hey, that
is weird, Kenny, Yeah, me, what the heck? Kenny? Who
wrote this movie? It was Mick Garris and Neil Comfort
to a man named Mick. Honestly, there's a sort of
(39:12):
like throwaway moment in the movie where so Billy Butcherson
is the zombie who gets brought back to life. I
like him. You had a crush on him. I didn't
think you had enough for Caitlin. Ye for all the
words you're putting in my mouth, but it was like
dirty about he's a dirty you know what he was
(39:33):
mad at like a dog. I got it. I do
not want to zombies and I don't want to catch
but you you like, this is my love it Wait,
but he was look at her glowing, there's feels rubbing
(39:53):
her hands together like she's about with excitement. Oh god, anyway,
a horny energy in this room. Because I'm a witch,
I'm casting a horny spell. I'm gonna look up some spells. Okay,
I look up a horny spell. I'm totally which because
(40:15):
I'm bleeding right now because we were talking about which
is no, It's okay. Literally every month I bleed through
my tamp on it. I'm like, this is the month
I'm going to get a Diva Cup and I never do.
What about the period panties? Thinks? Hey, sponsor us sponsor
this very important feminist podcast, thinks if you're out there,
(40:37):
I still think you know we're all in the besality. Yeah,
you're gonna want to skip large. I don't know. I
want to do Diva Cup, but then I just never.
I'm like, every time it occurs to me, I'm like,
oh wait, but I should get Amazon Prime, and then
I don't and then on this I can't do that.
(40:58):
I'll forget to sign up for the free trial. I
just have that birth control implant in my arm that
makes you not have a period for three years. And
I'm not bleeding. I can't be a witch if I'm
not bleeding. Ever, that sounds like a witchy as I'm bleeding.
I'm bleeding right now. To cool as a lot of
(41:22):
blood flowed. I like the word all in the same
moon cycle. Yeah, I'm like, oh man, it's it's nice.
We're all sinking that. I'm gonna go get some crystals
after this, Like have you ever bought I've never bought crystals.
All right, back to Hocus Focus. So Billy Butcherson, there's
a moment where they get to the cemetery for the
(41:43):
first time. Sachary Banks is all like, oh, this is
the grave of Billy he was when he's lover but
she caught him sporting with her sister and she poisoned
him and tied his mouth shut with a dull needle.
That I'm on board with, yes, because that's got to happen.
Sure a lot of times when if there's like an
(42:04):
infidelity that happens and a woman finds like her man
partner has been unfaithful. The other woman is vilified rather
than like the man like usually gets off the hooker.
She might be mad at in but like you know,
but I mean like her sister, i'd be pissed, but
I wouldn't. But I feel like, but she's like, that's
my sister yea, And it doesn't even seem like they
(42:27):
have any like I mean, they like all kind of
insult each other, but she never brings it up. First
of all, what is sporting with Like she's like, oh,
that Cott Disney looking in her house? Which sister was?
He supposed to was? Right? Who so horny that she?
(42:51):
That character is weird because it's just like, oh, she's
so horny, she doesn't have control over herself her broomstick, Yes,
she's it's a lot. It's like it's a more graphic
version of Max with a billow. It's a cast the
horny spell on her. But I do, I do like
(43:11):
So there's like five main male characters. I used to
mend his friend where then his name is Billy Butcherson,
Thackary Banks and Max of like the good guys, which
you find out that Billy Butcherson is like a good guy.
At the end, two of them are a zombie doesn't
talk for most of the movie, and when he does talk,
he tells a woman to go to hell. Not feminist.
(43:38):
I've been there. I found it quite lovely good. But
you know what, it's a pretty badass of her to
like come back from the dad, summon this dude who
fucked her over and she still won't let him speak,
and it's like do my bidding. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Yeah,
I gotta respect her for that. I like, I mean,
I Whinnie is the eater, she's the leader, follows the
(44:02):
rule that the woman with the shortest hair is in charge.
She is she has the shortest hair. I'm pretty sure.
Trying to tell it's been like a big up. It's
in two piles of her head there. But and then
Kathy and Janie her. I feel like she's under used
in this. She is she just really she spends most
of her time just contorting her mouth. Yeah, she's had
(44:24):
some sort into some sort of weird half smile. It
was weird. I mean, it's a very interesting character choice.
It was I don't know, Yeah, I was like, I
wish she had more to do, more to do or
just like I mean, at least we remember Sarah Jessica
Parker's character for being so horny, Like what do we
remember she's Oh, she smells children a lot. But from
(44:45):
her story, from a story standpoint, not a feminist standpoint,
we don't super need two of the witches. Like you're
really just but you gotta have a witch crew. That's true. Well,
yeah I don't have. You got to have backup. That's
but they're not helpful. But yeah, they're not that helpful.
Which but also it's hocus Pocus, and you know it's
(45:07):
hocus Pocus. There's three witches threes true and hilarious comedy
in core for children. Yeah, just storytelling in general. I
have a spell. Okay, I googled horny spell is what
came up. Oh my god. Okay, So this is called
a coda's love and lust spell. Visualize the person having
(45:30):
sex with you and then say I have wanted you,
I have wanted you, Now you shall want me, Now
you shall want me. This is my will, This is
my will. So mote it be, so mote it be? Congratulations?
Were all getting laid? If that was a man saying
(45:51):
that to a woman, that would be the rapiest thing
in the entire world. You're not supposed to say that
were women. So we're witches and it's okay. You're supposed
to say as while you're quietly humping your pillow in
the pillow and hump it, well you're saying, and then
you'll manifest and he'll be in your arms before you
(46:12):
know it. So okay, what does what does mean? I
don't know. I feel like she just like to use
her heart like modd like done, you know what I mean?
Just punctuation really nineties terms. Yea, yeah, because she's it's three.
(46:33):
Oh yes, thora birch sasitely delivers the year. Do we
talk much about her character? I mean she's eight, so
like what really, she's pretty, she's a spitfire. She's not afraid.
I mean she does get a little scared, but she's
just like active, she's smart. She's not like there's an
(46:53):
unusual sibling dynamic where her brother kind of tends to
roll over and do whatever she wants. Yeah, she's kind
of an alpha. She's in charge. Yeah, she's totally in
try and she she is making fun of him for
being a virgin all the time, and she apparently knows
what's sexy. It's like she's wearing she's in full makeup.
She's a woman of the world. She's from Los Angeles,
you know she she's an l a gal like girl. Yeah,
(47:19):
she's taking over New England. Yeah, I mean I like
that character. And and also she's a good actress. Yeah,
because children get me started on an issue. Child I
mean I do too. I don't care for them a do. Yeah. Well, Also,
they're just roaming out in the wild here too, just
(47:40):
frothing at them out there's too many. I like, what's
happened to the girl that plays Sally Draper. She seems
like she's developed into like a decent, like normal, like
not traumatized right outside anyway. Rights, it happens well because
Hayley Joel hasman. Oh okay, my boyfriend Ice, that's my cook. Okay.
(48:02):
Do you guys know who Aeriel Winters? Is She a
nerdy daughter on on Modern Family? Yes? I did? She
and her internet presence let me tell you, is it wild?
She dresses so slutty on every red carpet. It is
(48:23):
hilarious to be like, I'm just botty as fuck. Just
like showed up to the Smurfs movie, just like full cleavage,
like ass crack out, just like tiny barely covering her crotch,
and like her family drama is like very there's like
I think she actually got emancipated from her mom. Yeah,
(48:43):
like so her family dynamic is really messed up. She
just so out there and over the top. It's pretty hilarious.
I encourage you all to follow Aerial Winters followed on
Instagram and the word fuck is in her bio. She
(49:03):
does not post pics from Modern Family. Oh except when
it's ty Burrell's birthday. Then she whips up the Modern
Family fix. Ty Burrell went to Penn State University, which
is a place that I have one of two degrees
from the second one being a master's degree in screenwriting
from Boston University. And you know that I hate to
(49:24):
bring it up, but the opportunity was there, so ill hot.
Yeah of course, Oh my god, she's kissing a tall
man on a boat in this picture. To her, she's
gone out and getting what she wants to let everyone,
She's like, I'm the nerdy girl from Modern Family. But yeah,
make no mistake. But thora Birch thriving. Excellent example of
(49:48):
a child actor who ended up being like a wonderful adult.
Now she's an indie darling. Thora Birch was later in
the worst movie of all time American Beauty. Huh. Yeah,
a great movie, Ghost World. Uh. And then now she's
a she's you know, an indy darling. Cool, good for
her people. Yeah, and she's Max do oh interesting question.
(50:13):
Just google Horny spell again. We're okay, I'm about to
find out what happened to Armory Cats whoa he aged
very well? Well, he's only four to what a little hottie.
I know, but sometimes child stars end up looking kind
of kind of rough. See, Haley, Joel, don't you dare there?
(50:33):
We all have eyes literally, Haley Joel, Haley Joel, I'm
on your side. Danielle put it on a coffee bag. Okay,
So what is he doing now? No one knows the
last time anyone saw this man who was in General
Hospital in two thousand, where he played a bit part
as a tattoo artist. Well, Armory, if you're out there,
(50:55):
if you're a friend of the cast, if you're listening us,
know what it was like to be in a movie
with so many strong, powerful women, and I have to
say you're a virgin over and over. Hey, does anyone
have any final thoughts about the movie that we're talking about?
Focus that Thatt Miller's character is the Greenwich Kathena, Jimmy's
(51:19):
character is the Red Witch, and Sarahdesca Parker is the
Purple Witch. And Caitlyn your microphone is great. Jimmy, your
microphone is rat and mine is a blue which is
we were? We were? What any thing to say? He
just throw that, Did I feel like I'm not the
(51:43):
Winnie of the group If I'm a Charlotte, I'm for
sure not the Winnie. That's that's a mean thing to
say to your friend. Ye agree, I'm glad you're not
a Charlotte. We should talk about whether or not the
movie passes the Bechtel test the Doe. Yeah, it sure does.
(52:07):
All the sisters talk to each other pretty much in
every single scene that they're in, and usually not about
a man, although like Billy Butcherson gets mentioned, that Gary
Bins gets mentioned, but like mostly talking about that little Danny. Yeah,
they're talking about her or children general, children in general,
wanting to stay young forever, the potions that spells like, yeah,
(52:28):
talking about all kinds of stuff. Alten, did Danny talk
quite a bit? Yes, Danny talks to her coke head
mom that we didn't talk there, just like I'm a dad,
don't you tell, isn't it? And just like man, their
parents were fu up? Like that was like man, still
in love after all these years? Inspiring. Yeah. Yeah, so
(52:51):
a lot of different exchanges between women who have names,
So for sure the movie passes the Bechdel test. Let's
rate the movie on her nipple scale. We rate on
a scale zero to five nipples based on how the
movie treats its female characters. I'm going to give it.
I'll say like a three and a half, maybe even
a four. I think it does pretty well. I would
(53:12):
say the main female characters outnumber the male characters, especially
like if you're talking about human males, there's pretty much
Max and then us two like stupid bone headed Salem
Massachusetts dudes, but Ice AND's friend sorry but yeah. The
other ones are either a cat or a zombie who
(53:34):
doesn't even talk for most of the movie, and then
the Yeah, the rest of the characters are pretty strong,
active women who play a significant role in the story.
You know, I've got to take points off for like
the two side, which I mean, but that's fine. It's
just that those characters are very well developed. Like one
of them, her main thing is that she's corny, and
(53:55):
the other one is that she on Sarah Jessica Parker
duration of this movie. Sure, we just got some right
or something. And so if we're comparing, like, so, let's
assume that Allison's character is roughly the same age as
like Megan Fox's character in the first Transformers movie. She
doesn't get all grossly objectified the way that Megan Fox does.
(54:18):
So Kenny Ortega is maybe he's objectifying feminist iron Kenny Ortega.
Maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say that. No,
not Kenny Artaga. No, we're saying that Michael Bay, the
way he chooses to frame like Megan Fox's character in
the Transformers movie is like severely objectifying in lingery, like
(54:39):
look at her boots. But I mean, isn't that the
pinnacle of like what American cinema male gaze is? Michael
Bay totally literally this camera. So I'm giving points to
I suppose Kenny Ortega, but to the movie Hocus Focus.
We're not objectifyinging the like hot teen girl in that
(55:03):
movie the way, Yeah, she doesn't show any clevland. She's
been like an ugly brown sweater for most, like a
big up top. Yeah, and he likes well in that's
scene where she's like got the oh but they called
that out where in the beginning when she's like Danny's
like I could never wear a dress like that. I
don't have the what do you call them lobos or something?
(55:23):
He loves your boobies. I forget what word she using
your bankas or thora settled down. So yeah, that the
two like sidekick witches are like not super well developed,
but you know, not everyone gets the most perfectly fleshed
out character in a movie. So that's like kind of okay,
(55:45):
And yeah, I just like the It is weird to
me that like it's Max's story that it's like framed
around like a boy's perspective and point of views. It
seems like such a it feels like the male characters
and kind of guy I forget, like, oh, he's important
part of this, because you could like boil it down
to like the three women being like those are the villains,
(56:07):
and then the love interest and then the little sister
that needs looking after. But because they are active in
like pushing the story forward, it doesn't feel like that,
like the story is told from his perspective for the
most part, but he's like not doing all that much
more or even more than anybody else. Right, Yeah, I'll
go I'm gonna stick with three and a half. And
(56:30):
they belong of course to Thachary Banks the cat And
please don't say again that I fuck cats. That was
a nipple sacket. That a cat coming, Daniel. How many
(56:53):
nipples do you give it? I give it four? Yeah,
it was a fun I mean, Bette Midler, Sarah just
of Parker catheen to Jimmy, they're having fun. I know
that those two whiches don't get much to do, but
they do seem to genuinely like be having a good
time and having a blast on screen. And it's kind
of rare you get to see women, older women, women
(57:13):
for me to look ugly right for the screen, kind
of just having a blast, kind of children and kill children.
I love it. Yeah, Worth mentioning that this is an
extremely white movie, yell people of color with speaking roles
and barely even like there might be an extra or
two who's a person of color everyone else. I did
(57:35):
see an ex straw and crutches, and I was like,
what a lot disability. But other than that, yeah, a
very very white movie. Is that Massachusetts? Is that Salem? Though?
That is that is Salem? But that is also a
major cop out. But I'm sure that they could make
that argument because Salem is full of like rich white people.
(57:58):
I'm going to give it four as well because even
though and this is such a low bar to set,
but it's like, even though not all the female characters
are really fleshed out, I feel like it's just kind
of a sloppy movie in general. Like from a story standpoint,
it's not a cinematic masterpiece. There's there's effects. Do not
age well, No, there's just like a little bit too
(58:20):
much going on. There's like a few too many characters
maybe in the movie. But the female characters, I mean,
with the acception of the fact that they're trying to
kill the witches, but they're not being like constantly beaten
down by the story. They're not being punished, you know.
It's like it's fun, it's good. Can you rotega? Generally,
I would say, and hopefully We'll discuss it further in
(58:40):
our Inevitable High School and musical. Cantega makes good star
like is a good director for women. It seems like
most of his female characters are treated with respect in
his body of tone pumps, so remains to be seen
true True. I'm going to get so four nipples tour
(59:01):
tour for Kenny, and I'll throw to back to Caitlin
for her to throw in that catchres and loves. This
is the end of cat facts with Caitlin because we'll
not stand for this. How did it go on for
so long? She won't stand down below with you? All right? Well, Danielle,
(59:27):
thank you so much for being here. This has been
so much fun. Thank you for having me. This has
been a treat in a joy trick or tree, Happy Hello,
Happy Halloween. Where can people follow you online? Follow me
on Twitter and Instagram at Diva Deluxe No he at
the end, and then friend me on Facebook, Danielle Perez
(59:48):
super okay. You can follow us at bechtel Cast on Twitter, Instagram,
beactel cast dot com. Facebook are the other things? Yeah,
we'd also like to plug Ariel Winters on in presence.
Check out Aerial Winters Ariel, We're here for you. Cohen
the Podcast, anytime hi
On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef in
best start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hey,
beck Tol Cast listeners, It's me Caitlin jam and we're
here to once again remind you about our new Patreon.
(00:23):
That's right, we started a Patreon page, which, if you
haven't heard of, it is a subscription service that allows
you to pledge us five bucks a month and get
to you to telling them to extra episodes of the
Bectel Castle for patrons only. What a damn good special.
That's a damn good special. Fund Twin Peaks reference. Yeah,
(00:43):
and if if you're not subscribing to that, you were,
I mean, you're missing out. Like you'll still get access
for free to our regular Thursday episodes. That's great, right,
But it's five bucks. That's like one overpriced coffee back
ridge a month. Yea, just just don't buy that from
your life. That's one tall boy PBR at an event
(01:08):
you don't even want to be at. It's too Mike's
hard lemonades. It's that's I mean, to be fair of
Mike's hard lemonades very easily, right, So you can either
I mean splurt, treat yourself, have two mics, and subscribe
to our Patreon. It's an amazing deal. We want it
helps us fund our show. We so far, I've been
(01:28):
putting our own money into the show and volunteering our
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But we'd love to also see the podcast at festivals
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subscribe our Patreon, we might have money to do that.
And it's only because you get bonus stuff and we
(01:50):
get to make more episodes, and just consider it. We'd
appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Enjoy the hocus Pocus episode the
Cat That's cough Syrup, which basically tastes the same as
Mike's hard lemonade. True, that's the line I have ready today.
(02:10):
I'm sick today, and my name is Jamie and my
name is Caitlin, and this is the Bechtel ship Man. No,
it's okay, you started it going go ahead. Oh, I
was just gonna say it's the Bechtel Cast. And it's
our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. That
there's no there's no getting around it. There's nothing else
(02:30):
that could be about. God, what a day? What a
dramatic day. So you're sick, I'm sick. I'm like and
I'm like in a floaty phase of sick where I'm
just like, I'm googling Cathy and Jamie anywhere and everywhere.
I'm not sick, but I mean physically, emotionally and mentally,
I'm not doing great. But who is Hey, you know
(02:53):
has been a trial? A trial? You said, there's there's
two shows on television right now with Kevin in the title.
You know, we're all suffering, suffering. What is it? Kevin
Can Wait? Kevin Can Wait a season two which actually
apparently is supposed to be kind of wild because they
kill off Kevin James's wife at the end of season one,
(03:15):
and then season two there's a time jump in there
and it's like, now he's dating Leah Remini. It's like, oh,
it's just King of Queen's again. But there and then
the other one is called Kevin Save the World. Probably
that's not exactly what it is, but it's about something
about it's a white guy and they're like your God,
which is like, do we need to be perpetuating that?
(03:37):
Probably not anyways, lots of Kevin based entertainment, No thanks
said before. Yes, not a big fan of most Kevin's.
I'm sure there are exceptions. We as a nation don't
respond well to Kevin's. I don't know why they keep trying.
Kevin Spacey is the worst actor available and any given time.
(03:58):
I liked him in seven, but mostly because you don't
see him from most of the movie. Anyway, Um, let's talk.
It didn't pass the backtel Castle. I was literally lifted
it from us. Let's introduce our guest. Let's do it.
She is a member of five Gap Comedy. She runs
(04:19):
a show called Gentrification. She's a hilarious comedian. Danielle Perez. Hey, ladies,
thanks for coming. Oh man, that intro was intense. Well, yeah,
there's a lot. We're all mentally ill or maybe I
don't want to project mine everyone, but I think we are.
(04:41):
We're all dealing with PTSD in some way, shape orfore
very sick. The proliferans proliference. Wow, there it is. Let's
just sure. Lots of Kevin's that's too much. And then
the Chris is like, don't even Pine, get out, like
(05:01):
we gotta getta you have nice teeth, more like Hen's
worth list. There you go, there you go. That is
another Chris. We don't need Chris, come on, Chris's Kevin's
con sit down, Conna leaves Kevin Kevin conn Kevin, who's
that Entourage? Right? Too many? And I think his name
(05:21):
was I his name was e No, it was like
I thought it was another scene. It was like, you
know what, Eric, Eric whatever. The fact that I know
any Entourage character makes me want to die. Kevin James, Kevin,
Kevin Costner, Kevin's Ken of all time, Kevin Costner. You
(05:43):
think I hate Ken? I really spacey? I say, I'm
a I'm way more of a fan of space You.
Len Klein, I like, oh, I do like Kevin and
his daughter is like one of my favorite musicians, which
ones Kevin. Kevin Klein is the voice of Phoebus in
A Hundredbag of Notre Dame. Why other things I know
I'm from. He's in Sophie's Choice, He's in a fish
(06:08):
called Wanda good for him, some other stuff. Anyways, let's
talk about movies, like specifically the one that we're supposed
to be talking about, spooky creeky door Halloween months, I'm
going to make a Jack olint or no, Alfred Molina
(06:29):
with a fever. I shouldn't have a knife. You're like,
this is the Halloween. We just end it all. Let's true,
this is probably the last Halloween. So well, it's been
pressing episodes. So thinking by yourself this time last year
(06:50):
and you're just like, what, who is that? Oh my god?
I was in such a better place. Yeah, I was
in a horrible place this time last year and somehow
still better. Like, yeah, I was in Portland for a week,
and then I was in Minneapolis for a week. I
was I was on the road traveling, and now I'm
just sleeping in my car because I gave someone a
(07:13):
ride and then they put my wheelchair in the back
seat and I was like, oh, well, I can't get
out of my car now. Oh my god, Like scho
why didn't you call someone because it was like one
in the morning. I guess, yeah, that's true. Caitlin is
so irritated. She's like, we're very off track. We're very
off bab I know that that's the vibe I'm giving off. Hey,
(07:36):
what a time to talk about hocuspoke Focus. Daniel, what's
your relationship your history with this movie? I liked it
a lot. I don't think I saw it in theaters
because I was like, it came out of ninety three,
I was like eight. I think I just saw it
at a friend's house or something like that. But I
remember seeing it when I was like little and liking
(07:57):
it a lot because I liked Witches. Sure, which, when
did you foresee it on Disney Channel in middle school
at a sleepover, saw it again sometime in high school,
then saw it again at your house law side. Yeah,
that's cute, so it was fun fun viewing. Yeah, I
(08:18):
didn't see it for the first time until well into adulthood.
I saw it for the first time like four years ago.
What was the situation? Um put us put us there?
My my my best pal j T, who you might remember,
friend of the episode. He's like, how have you never
seen hocus Pocus? I think he had it on DVD
(08:40):
and we're like, I don't remember if it was Halloween
time or not. But he was just like, there was
a sense of urgency that I needed to see it.
Right away, I like around Halloween time as an adult. Yeah,
all right, here's the recap for hocus Pocus. There are
these three witches, their sisters that Middler, Cathin and Jamie
twenty nine year old Sarah Jessica Parker Sanderson sister there,
(09:05):
which is in the height of like Salem witch Child,
like seventeen century Salem, Massachusetts, and they're conjuring this spell
so that they can live forever. It literally sounds like
a biopic of Madonna. I'm going to drink the blood
of young people so as to live forever. And so
there's this one child who they've kidnapped and they have
(09:27):
this potion and they're about to like try to live forever.
But all these people come they're like, no, we're which
is well, it's her brother. Her brother tries to be
like hero, tries just save her. But then all the
townspeople are like wearing a white blouse like everyone. That's
how you know everyone's wearing a blouse is which is
very nineties of him, even though it's coppening at it's weird.
(09:51):
This is the nine version of He's like a JTT
but olden times that's what talking. And I was like,
wait is that? Because I was thinking I was like, yes,
it's Devon's all on this. I was like, no, it's
another adorable white boy with like that same kind of
bowl hair. It's the dirty bond hair and the blue
eyes that was if you didn't features, yeah, like a
(10:12):
sheer blouse. So like, what is going on? Like? Am
I turned on right? Like this is happening? I know?
It's like it's like I'm an adult woman when he's
so clearly a child. But it's like he's a cuteiet cute,
he's cute. Yeah, he's fine. Um wow, Okay, it's too
good for So the townspeople come and they hang the witches,
(10:38):
but they cast this spell that if a virgin lights
a candle on All Hallows Eve, they'll be able to return.
So and then they turned to the boy who tries
to save his sister into a cat Sachary Banks. He
goes from having two nipples as a human to eight
nipples as a cat. This has been cat facts with
Caitlin early and then so she's like, don't give me
(11:01):
that blast because those sweetness done by the cat version
of the twelve year old boys as a cat? Are
you were you also into the robin Hood, the Disney
animated robin Hood where their foxes. No, I'm not animals
name let's tell how Yeah he was. Let's get the
(11:24):
record straight. I'm not attracted to animals. Just became the first.
I can't believe I have to clarify this, but I
want you all to know. I literally for talking about
cat nipples. That's like a really hard argument today, fair point.
I'm just explaining scientific facts. Okay. So that's the first
(11:47):
seven minutes of the movie. Flash forward to three years later.
It's still set in Salem, Massachusetts. There's this boy, but
this time they're time's laid back in from cat He's
Los Angeles? Was that l a Hollywood? I like it?
Then then they got those little meathead Massachusetts boys are
(12:08):
like California, California anyway. So the new kid, Max Dennison,
moved to town. He's like, oh, this Salem, which stuff
is stupid, but he there's a hawkerl in his class
who likes it. So he's like, Okay, I'll be into it.
And he has a little sister, Danny, who she's like birch, Yeah,
just adorable lipstick. She's got the he looks so good
(12:34):
throughout the entire film. I'm like, stop it. Who did
her hair man? Who did her makeup? Litick banana, angelic
and beautiful. Yeah, I didn't tussle, just perfectly tussled throughout
the entire film. I never realized, like the last time
I saw this like ten years ago, like I wasn't
able to appreciate it was thora Bert. Now we know
(12:56):
she steals the show. She's so good. Yeah, she's really
still the show. She's great. Man. So Max is like,
I'll fine, I'll take you trigger treating because it's Halloween night,
and they stumble upon the Allison Hot Girl's Hot Alison's
house and waiting the staircase is a ball Gownd saying, oh, hi,
(13:19):
like this is would you like some cider? Like okay, question,
we've all been trigger treating. Who the funk gets invited
into a people's homes when they do that and asked
if they want cider? Like that just like it happens
at all. There's that moment where it's like, oh, they're
rich people that probably make us drink cider and sure enough,
(13:41):
like is that a stereotype for rich people? People off
the street drink of their cider. Why are they and please?
I saw their house and they were unpacking. They look
pretty loaded to me too. Has a staircase in his
bedroom right a drum. He has a new Nike cross trainers.
(14:04):
They're facts. Salem is a very wealthy town, is it? Yeah?
So anyway, I guess it was really funny finding out
what Disney thinks like rich people are like when when
the baseline of all their families is already wealth Anyway,
so they convinced. Max is like, oh, what an opportunity
(14:26):
for me to bond with hot Allison. If we go
to the witch's house. Do we talk about how he
humped humped the pillow? He did not know? That's a
great entrance in this movie is so crazy. She's hiding
in the closet and then she walks in on Max
because he gets home. Alison local history is so interesting
(14:49):
out comes story and she's like, I was like, are
you guys going to hook up? What's happening? That was wild?
She gets like where the pillow was? Just like I'm
Alice and used me like, oh no, that's your brother.
Thora is very horny in this movie. It's everyone this
is dead well horny dead well, but because it's a
(15:12):
Kenny Ortega joint for his horny depth. He's known for
the High School Musical Trilogy of pretty Horny Trilogy, I'd
argue I was reading theories about him on the internet today.
Some people say he's hooked up with Gene Kelly, Kenny Ortega.
I know he's amazing. He's alleged. Is he sixty seven
(15:33):
years old and so well preserved? Yeah, I haven't aged
a day. He's drinking potions. I want to know what
children he's been drinking the blood of Yeah, Like, let's
zach Efron. That's why he has him in all the movies.
He's like took his fans to Zach. It sucked out
(15:58):
a couple of years out of the Definitely we kind
of zach A just aged all of a sudden. It
could have been, Yeah, it's just what we're seeing like
pre pubescent, like to like, I'm going, yeah, what was
the movie where that happened for him where it was
like I'm I'm hot. I think like Neighbors. There was
(16:19):
like a Grandpa movie, Bad Grandpa. I've never seen a
friend movie that's totally watched every single movie that he's in,
really love zach Efron Zach, if you're out there, we
want we have I have a question, which is to
your nex suck your blood. Hey, look back to hocus
a pokish. Sorry. They go to the witch's house. Virgin
(16:44):
Max light hands no one like. They all make fun
of him for being a virgin, but he's fine. He's
like okay, He's like, yeah, virgin Like. He offers it
to the hot girl Allison, to light and she's like
nothing because she's like yeah, not like you lose theer.
(17:06):
He's like, okay, I'll do it. I'll don't it. So
he lights the candle and it brings back the three
witches and then they recap. So there, Oh, there's speaking
of horny nous. Here's who is everyone? Who's horny? Max
for Alison, maybe Thor Birch for her brother, Bett Middler
for her book she wants, and then Sarah Jessica Parker
(17:33):
for everyone everyone. Yeah, I like the horny bust driver too,
Horny bust driver, Horny Satan. Yes, everyone is extremely horny.
There's got to be someone out there named Horny Sade.
You're out there all right, let me get through the
rest of the story very fast. So the which has
(17:53):
come back. They're like, crap, we are only gonna be
able to stay alive for a day unless we can
make this potion again. But the book has stolen from them.
They try to get the book back because it has
a recipe for the potion that lets them live forever,
and then just like they don't remember. Yeah, it's like
you're a witch. I don't really get that reliance on
the book. It's at what point do you for so
(18:16):
many hundreds of years time it's go time, it's show time.
Like you can't just say, oh, the most important spell.
I haven't written down something that's going to keep me
alive forever, which really matters. So that, yeah, it doesn't
make sense that they haven't memorized. I remember like half
(18:37):
of it. It wasn't a long spell. It was a
toe of a of a dead man. And then they
like spitting it part of their stuff. Yeah, thirty minutes
or less. Rachel Ray like just live forever anyway, So
they're trying to get their book back and then they're
(18:57):
like no, and then they try to burn the witches
and that doesn't work, and then finally they're able to
defeat them. That facary binks comes back as a cat
and he talks, He talks and then which is scary
to me. You right, we learned from the Men in
Black episode that's not you're not a fan of I
was kind of horny for him as a cat to
the cat, really, ocar two are you saying? In addition
(19:20):
to me, I still want to clarify I'm not horny,
you know. We're actually just like sitting there and Kayle
was just like, it's crazy how much I want to
fun this cat? Like can you not? It's like, well,
I'm right next to you. Please keep your horny thoughts
to yourself. A lot of horny day this is Is
this an actor's film or is this a tone poem?
(19:43):
That's what I have to ask myself. At the beginning,
I would say, ken you or take a body of
work is more of a tone wol you say that?
But when Bette Midler's and it suddenly it's an actor's
hidden She's giving us range and depth. I know because
there's her ugly before they drink of the potion and
(20:03):
then different they look. How different to their hair is
just a little bit more, but their hair is better
like this shape. But they also it is it's like
they took all the really poorly applied special effects makeup
and prosthetics and just kind of sleft it off right right,
so it's still unattractive. Someone took a baby wipe to
(20:27):
them and they're like, we did it. We killed a child.
Now we looked two percent nicer. Maybe it's a bones thing.
Maybe their bones hurt. And then I'm just throwing it out. Sure,
which is have bones? Yeah, but isn't that the whole
thing about them? Like floating? Oh maybe they have hollow
(20:48):
bones like bird bones, but they're so strong. Look, I'm
not writing the rules of which is I don't know.
She res so finely. They destroy the witches and everything's
fine and Tha Gary Banks gets to return to his
like ghost form and everything's great and uh and then
is there a kiss? At the ages to die? Which die?
(21:12):
There's kiss? There's a weird spooney thing we were taught. Okay,
we were saying, what's his name? Max? Max must have
been doing some serious, like the Secret style manifesting, because
this day in the afternoon, he's like humping his pillow
thinking about this girl. Fast forward like eight hours later,
(21:32):
she's in his freaking arms. It's been and it's been
taking a little nat reclining on the formerly humped pillow question. Okay, ladies,
we were all sixteen year old horny girls. Have you
ever taken a pillow and been like a person at
school who I really like tried that yesterday? There. Yeah.
(22:01):
I was kind of surprised they like did it because
it's a Disney film and it's if it is something
very high school that you do. It was weird. I mean,
I do not to talk about a twelve year old
characters sexuality. He's probably like fifty. I think he's like
SIXTI oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, I feel better. Okay,
(22:21):
so let's talk about his sexual developing manhood. I it
looks so upset. She's like, let's go back to catball. Hang.
I know that Catlin would rather be sucking on a
cat now, But I think we need to talk about
masculinity there or in Trouble Today or okay, okay, but
(22:49):
but truly we I mean, obviously point of this podcast
is to talk about female characters, but I think portrayal
of masculinity also is super important, and this was I
thought a pretty good one in terms of like Max
is a sixteen year old and a version which is
not uncommon like and on average, I think men tend
(23:11):
to lose their virginity later than women do. But I
thought it was kind of cool to see a young
male character who was like, I'm a virgin. I'll light
this candle whatever I'm I'll do the inciting incident of
the movie because I've never fucked before. I thought that
was nice. And even when people were giving him shit
about it, he never got like like I'm gonna go
(23:32):
I'm a monster now. But I thought that that was
like a pleasant part of this movie. It's like, we
have a virgin male and everyone like even when people
aren't cool with it, like the guy who's the guy
who's talking to the fake police officer, he was like,
but that was a weird interaction where he was like, yeah,
I'm a virgin and the police officer was like really
(23:53):
and then like, how are you not inside a woman
right now? Like the application was weird, Like he wasn't like,
oh you suck you was just like, but you're so hot.
It was But anyways, I liked Max's character for that. Yeah,
because you see so often in media where like young
boys are like I gotta lose my virginity. It's like
(24:15):
this thing and being a virgin's name, and it's makes
me a loser. So it's nice to see him like
maybe not necessarily embrace it, but to be okay with
it and corny virgin and he doesn't care. Yeah, because
it gets brought up like four or five different times
in the movie where you're a virgin and he's like, huh,
I mean he got a lot accomplished by never fucking
(24:36):
in that movie. Yeah, you see that like portrayal of
like virgins being lame. So I'm like, yeah, a good
point in this movie. Like he's it's fine with it.
It's weird. It's nice to see it around the hero, right,
And I was just at the end of the day,
he's still like a hot kid. He's going to be
fine though that I should the beginning, not not top
(25:02):
it much. I like and I like them. I mean,
I'm just I'm DNA programmed to love little meathead Massachusetts
boys like what you liked ice in the back roum
literally people I went to fourth grade with, Like did
you ever did you go to school with kids who
(25:23):
would have the Nike swoosh just shaved and that are
like a lightning bullet. Yeah. Now, I went to school
in Los Angeles, California Callie Boys. Maybe that's why I
like it's okay right right, because you know, because you
know that laid back Callie vibe. Man. I still I
still kind of find it exotic and exciting. And then
and then whereas like I'm used to ice, sure dumb
(25:47):
dumb like you won't go watch a hockey game like dumbass.
So I know we've only talked about men's so far,
the bail characters, but I'm going to do it some more. Um,
So we were like, okay, who is the protagonists movie?
Is it? Winnie Sanderson? Bette Midler's character not really choose
the main antagonist. The protagonist is Max, which means this
(26:10):
is like a boy's story told from a boy's perspective.
There are right, he doesn't have like another boy except
for Thackeray the Cat and Billy Butcherson the Zombie. Well,
but then you've bat the argument that it was that
Grey the Cat's movie. Yes, well, each character is pretty
active arguments. Things are about to get very serious. Whose
(26:34):
movie is focus? Ultimately? Is Kenny Ortegas Ultimately but I mean,
the movie is remembered for the three Witches, but they
are the antagonistic force of the movie. We're not rooting
for them. Rights is barely in Beetle Juice. Yes, you
can come in minutes in. Oh, that's a strong case
(26:56):
to make me watch it. Yeah, Beatlee feminist icon. So
we yeah, we remember this story for like the three
Witches mostly, but it's like Max's story, which is kind
of weird to think about. But I would make the
argument that all of the female characters are just as active,
if not more so than him, and moving the story forward.
(27:19):
She doesn't watch, and Alice actually does a lot because
she in the very beginning, whenever they conjure the witches back,
she like hits one of them with a broom and
then a frying pan and actually like saves the two
girls have to save Max, and that he doesn't. It's
been established that Max the Virgin cannot fight. Yeah, held
(27:41):
up in a cemetery for his Nike Cross trainers. But
his buddy, your boyfriend, he's actually on his way. I
wish I could say that said, seriously, my boyfriend Ice
is like picking me up, so I can't stay. I
(28:04):
was so happy for you. It is so really happy
for you both, but like, yeah, he doesn't, like he
gets like shook down for his shoes, and then a
contrast of like toxic masculinity versus like whatever whatever, the
don't know. But then they're like trigger treating and then
it's like Ice and like a larger group, And I
(28:26):
do love that thora Birch's character. It's like my I'm
here with my big brother, so even to watch yourselves
and the big he's actually just take my candy and
please listen. Because Ice is an extremely strong female protagonist,
(28:47):
so that we see the trope over and over of
men having the same women, which happens in the beginning
with Thacary trying actually failing to save his little sister Emily.
But then the next time we see a thing like that,
it's Allison and Danny having to save Max and then
he like gets his composure whatever, and he's like, oh,
the burning reign of death and like they're able to escape.
(29:10):
But like it was cool to you see Allison and
Danny like save they are, yeah, the team exactly. But
then it's also later on it's Allison who comes up
with the idea to burn the witches, which proves unsuccessful,
but she was at least like active women tearing down women.
(29:30):
She is, Um, how do we feel about them wanting
to deny the witches and what they want? They're fully
actualized women, I mean, but they're doing it at the
expense of the lives of children. So do we cares
(29:53):
a culture? Do we need children? At this point? It's
just cruel to keep having them? Right? Yeah, Like, well,
you know, shout out to all those newborn babies. Are
we going to talk? Are we talking about the wishes?
Well yeah, yeah, yeah, Well one last So Alison has
the idea to burn the witches, and then she at
(30:13):
the end figures out what the witches are trying to
do with like conjuring on the children to suck the
life force out of them or whatever. So like she's
not the protagonist necessarily, but she plays an active role.
So it's nice because a lot of times you see
a supporting character like that pretty much just tagging along
and not doing anything. So you see her doing stuff
and like influencing the story. So I like that a lot.
(30:34):
I know I didn't appreciate because like she is the
brains of a lot of what's happening because like her
mom worked at the Witch right, And there's that scene
in the classroom where he's like, Halloween has invented by
the candy companies. I'm wearing a T shirt on the
hippie and she's like, yeah, actually, drop some knowledge on you.
Actually you live in Salem, Massachusetts. You fucking lit really
(31:00):
Halloween times women have died. Yeah, people are dying, Okay,
But I didn't like how the cat Thackeray was the
one that like led them to the cemetery and was like,
which is can touch hallowed ground? And it's like she
would know that. I feel like he stepped on Allison's
fact knowledge and that just she probably knew that already
(31:22):
because she knew about the salt well, she had to
read it from the book. She didn't learn about that
until they opened up the book at the end. Yeah,
you would think Alison would know more because of that museum.
And then she told Danny, like Flora Burges's character, like
I love witches and it's like I don't know more
about it, right, look it up. Kind of crystals are
you working with? I don't. I can't imagine anything that's strong, right,
(31:47):
So the Witches Kathy and Jamie who Okay, I have
a little bit of a problem with her character because
she's basically she's like very horny and she basically does
not thing. And then she's just like she's like perpetuating
like the dumb blonde bimbo stereotype. Yes, and an egregious wig.
(32:08):
No less than you. But she does get to use
her Broadway singing voice to conjure the children. Oh yes, yes, no,
well Sarah did she She got cast in Annie when
she was really young. Of course she's an Annie. Sarah God,
(32:32):
I like Sarah a lot. That's her character's name too.
It is that is fully betting out Kenny Artego is
just like here's some fake teeth, do whatever you want,
fake teeth in a wig. Go crazy and she is great.
And another thing is that it drives me crazy when
(32:54):
Broadway stars are put in movies, and it's like, it
would just be so so easy for you to give
us one scene them singing just a little bit, and
we get it. We get it, Yeah, we got it,
And it's so good remembered about the movie, it's pretty great.
But in terms of like their characters, I mean, like
obviously Winifred Sanderson. Bette Mallard's character is like the brains
(33:18):
the operation. The other two are just sort of like her.
Can't taste right. It's so between the three of them, Yeah,
they can't even do any memorize. Okay, let's try the
three of us right now to memorize a spell. We can't.
I mean, well, that's like my whole issue with Charmed.
It's like, there's three of you. You guys can't figure
(33:40):
out one spell between the three of you. Is your favorite?
Which on Charmed? I liked Rose McGowan just because I
liked her to She's great. She's great, I did. I
love Piper and then and I love her own Pretty
Little Liars as the mom too. She stars I'm Pretty
(34:00):
Little Liars every it's like Piper your Magic. Would it
surprise you to know that I've not seen either of
those shows. I don't ever seen charts. I don't we
have a TV podcast. I watched a lot of TV.
I can talk to you about sex in this City. Yeah,
I haven't seen so upset, I so distraught. You're ringing
(34:23):
at the thought of a Samantha. I'm in, I'm a Miranda,
You're you're a Charlotte Bird sick Bird. I'm actually a
Raphael because as far as I'm concerned, I'm Chris, no teenager.
(34:45):
And Turtles is a better version of Sex in the City. Okay, God,
they're all in New York. We're going to let you
on fire. I made a sketch called sex in the
Stewart and it's all of the Ninja Turtles as Sex
in the City characters and we just talk about turtle
sex pond. I'll share it on Twitter. It's probably the
best thing I've ever the world contest. Wow, that's honestly amazing.
(35:10):
Last meeting, I want me back, all right. I want
to talk about witchcraft and how it's a thing that
like men in history have been like, oh no, a
woman with agency and like identity, fuck her, she's a witch. Um.
I was trying to read it up on like the
(35:31):
Salem witch trials and stuff like that, and then I
forgot to finish. So I don't know if I will
be making any useful points, but I think it's worth Okay,
starting No one, Act one, Seen one, but yeah, I
think it's just worth noting that throughout history women have
(35:53):
been persecuted because they were thought to be witches, And
it was mostly just because they were like maybe practicing
some like pagan rituals, but like what like who can
like like they were maybe vegans, they gotta die. It
was like a lot of midwives. So it's like women
who were older, maybe didn't have children, but who had
(36:16):
like knowledge of like the female body and like what
it could do and how to like help it and
so yeah, it's like this knowledge that we don't possess,
and I'm scared of it now and I got to
have someone to blame. Isn't it funny how that's still
happening right now? The GOP is like, hey, no abortions,
no birth control, no health care. Literally, I feel like
(36:40):
I know that there's currently no tests for like congress
or presidency, but like they should be having to take
at least like some sort of like sex one oh
one because they don't. I don't think many of them
even know how like the female reproductive system works the
way just the things they say, it's great. Like there's
(37:03):
a senator I don't remember which one, but who see
the one that's like, well, you know, the body is
a way of showing that whole rape thing down. Yeah, yeah,
what are you what? What do I have? Venom? Like?
What is what is the thing that you know that
I don't know? It was a senator who had just
voted that, you know, women can't get abortions anymore, and
(37:24):
then asked his mistress to be like, actually you need
to get another planned parenthood that I'm actively trying to
shut down, Like fuck off. Yeah, oh this is the
worst timeline gang, this is it. This is the darkest one.
But his focus right, Um, So that and then I
wanted to mention that a lot of female movie villains
(37:45):
are witches, which, like, you know, maybe perpetuating this idea
that like, well, because witches are like vilified. I mean
I've seen as like an evil yeah, but a dark
sided cream, which is bad, but it's also just like uncreative.
It's like, oh, we need a female villain and she's
a witch. It's like we don't save the day. Yeah.
(38:06):
Well there's good witches in film and TV, but it
is really good get rules. Anyways, It's weird that it
just occurred to me. I'm like, oh, so for this
whole movie. Weird to assume that a the Salem witch
trials were totally legit because the witches were actually that
in drinking the blood of children. I was like, whoa,
(38:27):
that is actually an insanely backwards thing to open the
movie with. It's like, well, clear as we all know,
the Salem witch Trials were a glowing moment in American history,
and we were right favorite like what that. I didn't
even think of it that way. I just wanted to
see Ben Middler in an I party. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
that's wild. It's weird. It's really wild. Yeah, where it's
(38:48):
a couple they deserve to die. Yeah, they were trying
to eat those children, right, Like, what were they doing
in that cabin? They're probably trying to kill a kid. Uh,
we better and then we see them get hey, that
is weird, Kenny, Yeah, me, what the heck? Kenny? Who
wrote this movie? It was Mick Garris and Neil Comfort
to a man named Mick. Honestly, there's a sort of
(39:12):
like throwaway moment in the movie where so Billy Butcherson
is the zombie who gets brought back to life. I
like him. You had a crush on him. I didn't
think you had enough for Caitlin. Ye for all the
words you're putting in my mouth, but it was like
dirty about he's a dirty you know what he was
(39:33):
mad at like a dog. I got it. I do
not want to zombies and I don't want to catch
but you you like, this is my love it Wait,
but he was look at her glowing, there's feels rubbing
(39:53):
her hands together like she's about with excitement. Oh god, anyway,
a horny energy in this room. Because I'm a witch,
I'm casting a horny spell. I'm gonna look up some spells. Okay,
I look up a horny spell. I'm totally which because
(40:15):
I'm bleeding right now because we were talking about which
is no, It's okay. Literally every month I bleed through
my tamp on it. I'm like, this is the month
I'm going to get a Diva Cup and I never do.
What about the period panties? Thinks? Hey, sponsor us sponsor
this very important feminist podcast, thinks if you're out there,
(40:37):
I still think you know we're all in the besality. Yeah,
you're gonna want to skip large. I don't know. I
want to do Diva Cup, but then I just never.
I'm like, every time it occurs to me, I'm like,
oh wait, but I should get Amazon Prime, and then
I don't and then on this I can't do that.
(40:58):
I'll forget to sign up for the free trial. I
just have that birth control implant in my arm that
makes you not have a period for three years. And
I'm not bleeding. I can't be a witch if I'm
not bleeding. Ever, that sounds like a witchy as I'm bleeding.
I'm bleeding right now. To cool as a lot of
(41:22):
blood flowed. I like the word all in the same
moon cycle. Yeah, I'm like, oh man, it's it's nice.
We're all sinking that. I'm gonna go get some crystals
after this, Like have you ever bought I've never bought crystals.
All right, back to Hocus Focus. So Billy Butcherson, there's
a moment where they get to the cemetery for the
(41:43):
first time. Sachary Banks is all like, oh, this is
the grave of Billy he was when he's lover but
she caught him sporting with her sister and she poisoned
him and tied his mouth shut with a dull needle.
That I'm on board with, yes, because that's got to happen.
Sure a lot of times when if there's like an
(42:04):
infidelity that happens and a woman finds like her man
partner has been unfaithful. The other woman is vilified rather
than like the man like usually gets off the hooker.
She might be mad at in but like you know,
but I mean like her sister, i'd be pissed, but
I wouldn't. But I feel like, but she's like, that's
my sister yea, And it doesn't even seem like they
(42:27):
have any like I mean, they like all kind of
insult each other, but she never brings it up. First
of all, what is sporting with Like she's like, oh,
that Cott Disney looking in her house? Which sister was?
He supposed to was? Right? Who so horny that she?
(42:51):
That character is weird because it's just like, oh, she's
so horny, she doesn't have control over herself her broomstick, Yes,
she's it's a lot. It's like it's a more graphic
version of Max with a billow. It's a cast the
horny spell on her. But I do, I do like
(43:11):
So there's like five main male characters. I used to
mend his friend where then his name is Billy Butcherson,
Thackary Banks and Max of like the good guys, which
you find out that Billy Butcherson is like a good guy.
At the end, two of them are a zombie doesn't
talk for most of the movie, and when he does talk,
he tells a woman to go to hell. Not feminist.
(43:38):
I've been there. I found it quite lovely good. But
you know what, it's a pretty badass of her to
like come back from the dad, summon this dude who
fucked her over and she still won't let him speak,
and it's like do my bidding. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Yeah,
I gotta respect her for that. I like, I mean,
I Whinnie is the eater, she's the leader, follows the
(44:02):
rule that the woman with the shortest hair is in charge.
She is she has the shortest hair. I'm pretty sure.
Trying to tell it's been like a big up. It's
in two piles of her head there. But and then
Kathy and Janie her. I feel like she's under used
in this. She is she just really she spends most
of her time just contorting her mouth. Yeah, she's had
(44:24):
some sort into some sort of weird half smile. It
was weird. I mean, it's a very interesting character choice.
It was I don't know, Yeah, I was like, I
wish she had more to do, more to do or
just like I mean, at least we remember Sarah Jessica
Parker's character for being so horny, Like what do we
remember she's Oh, she smells children a lot. But from
(44:45):
her story, from a story standpoint, not a feminist standpoint,
we don't super need two of the witches. Like you're
really just but you gotta have a witch crew. That's true. Well,
yeah I don't have. You got to have backup. That's
but they're not helpful. But yeah, they're not that helpful.
Which but also it's hocus Pocus, and you know it's
(45:07):
hocus Pocus. There's three witches threes true and hilarious comedy
in core for children. Yeah, just storytelling in general. I
have a spell. Okay, I googled horny spell is what
came up. Oh my god. Okay, So this is called
a coda's love and lust spell. Visualize the person having
(45:30):
sex with you and then say I have wanted you,
I have wanted you, Now you shall want me, Now
you shall want me. This is my will, This is
my will. So mote it be, so mote it be? Congratulations?
Were all getting laid? If that was a man saying
(45:51):
that to a woman, that would be the rapiest thing
in the entire world. You're not supposed to say that
were women. So we're witches and it's okay. You're supposed
to say as while you're quietly humping your pillow in
the pillow and hump it, well you're saying, and then
you'll manifest and he'll be in your arms before you
(46:12):
know it. So okay, what does what does mean? I
don't know. I feel like she just like to use
her heart like modd like done, you know what I mean?
Just punctuation really nineties terms. Yea, yeah, because she's it's three.
(46:33):
Oh yes, thora birch sasitely delivers the year. Do we
talk much about her character? I mean she's eight, so
like what really, she's pretty, she's a spitfire. She's not afraid.
I mean she does get a little scared, but she's
just like active, she's smart. She's not like there's an
(46:53):
unusual sibling dynamic where her brother kind of tends to
roll over and do whatever she wants. Yeah, she's kind
of an alpha. She's in charge. Yeah, she's totally in
try and she she is making fun of him for
being a virgin all the time, and she apparently knows
what's sexy. It's like she's wearing she's in full makeup.
She's a woman of the world. She's from Los Angeles,
you know she she's an l a gal like girl. Yeah,
(47:19):
she's taking over New England. Yeah, I mean I like
that character. And and also she's a good actress. Yeah,
because children get me started on an issue. Child I
mean I do too. I don't care for them a do. Yeah. Well, Also,
they're just roaming out in the wild here too, just
(47:40):
frothing at them out there's too many. I like, what's
happened to the girl that plays Sally Draper. She seems
like she's developed into like a decent, like normal, like
not traumatized right outside anyway. Rights, it happens well because
Hayley Joel hasman. Oh okay, my boyfriend Ice, that's my cook. Okay.
(48:02):
Do you guys know who Aeriel Winters? Is She a
nerdy daughter on on Modern Family? Yes? I did? She
and her internet presence let me tell you, is it wild?
She dresses so slutty on every red carpet. It is
(48:23):
hilarious to be like, I'm just botty as fuck. Just
like showed up to the Smurfs movie, just like full cleavage,
like ass crack out, just like tiny barely covering her crotch,
and like her family drama is like very there's like
I think she actually got emancipated from her mom. Yeah,
(48:43):
like so her family dynamic is really messed up. She
just so out there and over the top. It's pretty hilarious.
I encourage you all to follow Aerial Winters followed on
Instagram and the word fuck is in her bio. She
(49:03):
does not post pics from Modern Family. Oh except when
it's ty Burrell's birthday. Then she whips up the Modern
Family fix. Ty Burrell went to Penn State University, which
is a place that I have one of two degrees
from the second one being a master's degree in screenwriting
from Boston University. And you know that I hate to
(49:24):
bring it up, but the opportunity was there, so ill hot.
Yeah of course, Oh my god, she's kissing a tall
man on a boat in this picture. To her, she's
gone out and getting what she wants to let everyone,
She's like, I'm the nerdy girl from Modern Family. But yeah,
make no mistake. But thora Birch thriving. Excellent example of
(49:48):
a child actor who ended up being like a wonderful adult.
Now she's an indie darling. Thora Birch was later in
the worst movie of all time American Beauty. Huh. Yeah,
a great movie, Ghost World. Uh. And then now she's
a she's you know, an indy darling. Cool, good for
her people. Yeah, and she's Max do oh interesting question.
(50:13):
Just google Horny spell again. We're okay, I'm about to
find out what happened to Armory Cats whoa he aged
very well? Well, he's only four to what a little hottie.
I know, but sometimes child stars end up looking kind
of kind of rough. See, Haley, Joel, don't you dare there?
(50:33):
We all have eyes literally, Haley Joel, Haley Joel, I'm
on your side. Danielle put it on a coffee bag. Okay,
So what is he doing now? No one knows the
last time anyone saw this man who was in General
Hospital in two thousand, where he played a bit part
as a tattoo artist. Well, Armory, if you're out there,
(50:55):
if you're a friend of the cast, if you're listening us,
know what it was like to be in a movie
with so many strong, powerful women, and I have to
say you're a virgin over and over. Hey, does anyone
have any final thoughts about the movie that we're talking about?
Focus that Thatt Miller's character is the Greenwich Kathena, Jimmy's
(51:19):
character is the Red Witch, and Sarahdesca Parker is the
Purple Witch. And Caitlyn your microphone is great. Jimmy, your
microphone is rat and mine is a blue which is
we were? We were? What any thing to say? He
just throw that, Did I feel like I'm not the
(51:43):
Winnie of the group If I'm a Charlotte, I'm for
sure not the Winnie. That's that's a mean thing to
say to your friend. Ye agree, I'm glad you're not
a Charlotte. We should talk about whether or not the
movie passes the Bechtel test the Doe. Yeah, it sure does.
(52:07):
All the sisters talk to each other pretty much in
every single scene that they're in, and usually not about
a man, although like Billy Butcherson gets mentioned, that Gary
Bins gets mentioned, but like mostly talking about that little Danny. Yeah,
they're talking about her or children general, children in general,
wanting to stay young forever, the potions that spells like, yeah,
(52:28):
talking about all kinds of stuff. Alten, did Danny talk
quite a bit? Yes, Danny talks to her coke head
mom that we didn't talk there, just like I'm a dad,
don't you tell, isn't it? And just like man, their
parents were fu up? Like that was like man, still
in love after all these years? Inspiring. Yeah. Yeah, so
(52:51):
a lot of different exchanges between women who have names,
So for sure the movie passes the Bechdel test. Let's
rate the movie on her nipple scale. We rate on
a scale zero to five nipples based on how the
movie treats its female characters. I'm going to give it.
I'll say like a three and a half, maybe even
a four. I think it does pretty well. I would
(53:12):
say the main female characters outnumber the male characters, especially
like if you're talking about human males, there's pretty much
Max and then us two like stupid bone headed Salem
Massachusetts dudes, but Ice AND's friend sorry but yeah. The
other ones are either a cat or a zombie who
(53:34):
doesn't even talk for most of the movie, and then
the Yeah, the rest of the characters are pretty strong,
active women who play a significant role in the story.
You know, I've got to take points off for like
the two side, which I mean, but that's fine. It's
just that those characters are very well developed. Like one
of them, her main thing is that she's corny, and
(53:55):
the other one is that she on Sarah Jessica Parker
duration of this movie. Sure, we just got some right
or something. And so if we're comparing, like, so, let's
assume that Allison's character is roughly the same age as
like Megan Fox's character in the first Transformers movie. She
doesn't get all grossly objectified the way that Megan Fox does.
(54:18):
So Kenny Ortega is maybe he's objectifying feminist iron Kenny Ortega.
Maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say that. No,
not Kenny Artaga. No, we're saying that Michael Bay, the
way he chooses to frame like Megan Fox's character in
the Transformers movie is like severely objectifying in lingery, like
(54:39):
look at her boots. But I mean, isn't that the
pinnacle of like what American cinema male gaze is? Michael
Bay totally literally this camera. So I'm giving points to
I suppose Kenny Ortega, but to the movie Hocus Focus.
We're not objectifyinging the like hot teen girl in that
(55:03):
movie the way, Yeah, she doesn't show any clevland. She's
been like an ugly brown sweater for most, like a
big up top. Yeah, and he likes well in that's
scene where she's like got the oh but they called
that out where in the beginning when she's like Danny's
like I could never wear a dress like that. I
don't have the what do you call them lobos or something?
(55:23):
He loves your boobies. I forget what word she using
your bankas or thora settled down. So yeah, that the
two like sidekick witches are like not super well developed,
but you know, not everyone gets the most perfectly fleshed
out character in a movie. So that's like kind of okay,
(55:45):
And yeah, I just like the It is weird to
me that like it's Max's story that it's like framed
around like a boy's perspective and point of views. It
seems like such a it feels like the male characters
and kind of guy I forget, like, oh, he's important
part of this, because you could like boil it down
to like the three women being like those are the villains,
(56:07):
and then the love interest and then the little sister
that needs looking after. But because they are active in
like pushing the story forward, it doesn't feel like that,
like the story is told from his perspective for the
most part, but he's like not doing all that much
more or even more than anybody else. Right, Yeah, I'll
go I'm gonna stick with three and a half. And
(56:30):
they belong of course to Thachary Banks the cat And
please don't say again that I fuck cats. That was
a nipple sacket. That a cat coming, Daniel. How many
(56:53):
nipples do you give it? I give it four? Yeah,
it was a fun I mean, Bette Midler, Sarah just
of Parker catheen to Jimmy, they're having fun. I know
that those two whiches don't get much to do, but
they do seem to genuinely like be having a good
time and having a blast on screen. And it's kind
of rare you get to see women, older women, women
(57:13):
for me to look ugly right for the screen, kind
of just having a blast, kind of children and kill children.
I love it. Yeah, Worth mentioning that this is an
extremely white movie, yell people of color with speaking roles
and barely even like there might be an extra or
two who's a person of color everyone else. I did
(57:35):
see an ex straw and crutches, and I was like,
what a lot disability. But other than that, yeah, a
very very white movie. Is that Massachusetts? Is that Salem? Though?
That is that is Salem? But that is also a
major cop out. But I'm sure that they could make
that argument because Salem is full of like rich white people.
(57:58):
I'm going to give it four as well because even
though and this is such a low bar to set,
but it's like, even though not all the female characters
are really fleshed out, I feel like it's just kind
of a sloppy movie in general. Like from a story standpoint,
it's not a cinematic masterpiece. There's there's effects. Do not
age well, No, there's just like a little bit too
(58:20):
much going on. There's like a few too many characters
maybe in the movie. But the female characters, I mean,
with the acception of the fact that they're trying to
kill the witches, but they're not being like constantly beaten
down by the story. They're not being punished, you know.
It's like it's fun, it's good. Can you rotega? Generally,
I would say, and hopefully We'll discuss it further in
(58:40):
our Inevitable High School and musical. Cantega makes good star
like is a good director for women. It seems like
most of his female characters are treated with respect in
his body of tone pumps, so remains to be seen
true True. I'm going to get so four nipples tour
(59:01):
tour for Kenny, and I'll throw to back to Caitlin
for her to throw in that catchres and loves. This
is the end of cat facts with Caitlin because we'll
not stand for this. How did it go on for
so long? She won't stand down below with you? All right? Well, Danielle,
(59:27):
thank you so much for being here. This has been
so much fun. Thank you for having me. This has
been a treat in a joy trick or tree, Happy Hello,
Happy Halloween. Where can people follow you online? Follow me
on Twitter and Instagram at Diva Deluxe No he at
the end, and then friend me on Facebook, Danielle Perez
(59:48):
super okay. You can follow us at bechtel Cast on Twitter, Instagram,
beactel cast dot com. Facebook are the other things? Yeah,
we'd also like to plug Ariel Winters on in presence.
Check out Aerial Winters Ariel, We're here for you. Cohen
the Podcast, anytime hi
The Bechdel Cast News
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Caitlin Durante
Jamie Loftus
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