Jawbreaker with Crystal

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph
and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I killed her, I killed the teen dream. Deal with it, Jamie.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Oh. I was thinking that whole time. Wouldn't it be
awesome if that was in a build a bear?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Like?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's where I wanted it, because did you ever have
like I remember I had like a friend at school
who it was like a teenager's dating thing, and the
guy gave the girl a build a bear that was like,
I love you, Megan.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I never had one as a youth, but when I
had the whole sludge debacle and I got my gall
bladder surgery, my friend Nikki gave me a build a
bear and when you like, press its little paw, she
had it make me ups So it's a teddy bear
that he's like.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Now you used to be able to. I mean it
sounded horrible, but you could put your own voice in it,
much like the uh Chekhov's card that we have yes
in Job Breaker. That's my one note for Job Breaker
the rest is perfect, The rest is flawless. It should
have been a Build a Bear. Agree, Yeah, we should
start putting more murder confessions in Build a Bears. I'm

(01:25):
gonna smile that away.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Honestly, I think we should record the Bechdel Cast on
Build a Bears.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
And just distribute it that way. We're getting back into
tangible media because the digital revolution's gone too far.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if you want to hear any more
episodes of the Bechdel Cast, you have to. I don't know,
we'll send them to you. We'll send you a bear.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
It would get really expensive, really fast. Yeah, but one
of us will confess to a murder in every episode,
and that's the beel Cast guarantee. Whoa yeah, okay, yeah.
I think my favorite lene in this movie is you
know how girlfriends kidnap their girlfriends on their birthday? Well,
we did that.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
You're like, yeah, time old tradition that we all know
and love.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Oh it's the best, I guess. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast.
I derailed your very funny intro immediately.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I loved it. Well, I'm Jamie Lott, I'm Caitlin Dorante,
and this is the Bechtel Cast, our show where we
examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel
Test simply as a jumping off point. And you know,
we have limited time today. If you want to know
what the Bechdel test is, listen to another episode, look

(02:41):
it up. I feel like we just have to get
right into it today, truly.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
I mean spoiler alert. Don't worry about the Bechdel Test
for this movie. There are women and people of marginalized
genders talking to each other the entire movie and it's
all horrible. So it has a lot of fun passes
in this movie.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Very much so. Oh the movie we're talking about today
is Jawbreaker nineteen ninety nine. Call classic, long time request.
It's like a request we've been getting since the beginning
of the show.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
And our guest today, returning guest. You know Crystal as
a drag artist who's known for RuPaul's Drag Race UK
Season one Ever heard of it, and more recently for
successfully suing right wing troll Lawrence Fox.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
It's Crystal, Hi, welcome back, thank you. I'm so happy
to be back.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Oh my gosh, you've gone through a legal saga since
you last appeared on the show.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Congratulations, I sure have putten the in litigious, as they say,
love for that.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
That was great. So you've brought us Jawbreaker. What is
your history and relationship with the movie.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
I've been trying to remember that all week, but I
definitely I think I saw the movie when I was
around twenty, but like I would have seen it posts
mean Girls as kind of like one of those movies
that you get shown when you come out. It's like
someone sits down AND's like, you're gonna need to watch this,

(04:15):
and heathers and you're gonna need to watch But I'm
a cheerleader and we're gonna watch the first season of
ab fab and then you'll be complete as a homosexual.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Man's part of the starter kit that's distributed.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, it gets handed out along with a bottle of
poppers and Madonna's greatest sts. I don't know. So that
was kind of when I saw it, and then I've
watched it probably a few times in the intervening period,
but it's been a long time since I watched it again.
And I did that yesterday, which was interesting. Basically, I

(04:50):
suggested this movie just because I'm desperate to hear what
you both think about it. I kind of need I
needed some outside I need some outsided butts.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Honestly, I was relying on you to be like, what
are you.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Think about this?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Because I don't know what to make of it exactly.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, we get to the bottom of it today.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, yeah, Jamie, what is your relationship with the movie?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Weirdly had not seen it. I don't know why it
had been missing me for so many years. I love
this genre of movie. I love a violent click. I
love it. Yeah, I'd never seen it and it was
I mean, it's tricky. I like it. I like it.
I think it is very funny. We'll talk about because
there's been like two oral histories written about Jawbreaker in

(05:35):
the same three year span. Who can say why, But
I do think it's very funny that the director of
this movie is very defensive about being like, it's not Heathers,
and You're like, Darren, but not.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Only that, it's like, it's not Heathers, But what's this
Mean Girls all about? It's so derivative of my.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
I know, he's like, Mean Girls is ripping me off.
I was like, Darren, every thing I read from the director,
he kind of he was cracking me up because I
was just like, sir, come on. But but the movie itself,
I mean I thought it was like it's very dark.
I thought it was like super funny at times and
then other there's I don't know. For a lot of
this movie I was thinking about, like, wow, I really

(06:18):
have to rewatch Heathers. But I feel like Job Breaker
does mostly does a thing that I appreciate where it's
like women are running the show the whole time. There
is one plot boyfriend, who I think we could have
done without. But outside of Zach, I do like that
this is a world mostly devoid of men at all

(06:41):
in terms of like power, influence, And I mean, you
can't hate too hard on a movie that features detective
Pam Greer doing some like career worst detective work, doing
just a really bad job. Pam Gregor's doing great, yeah,
but her character is useless.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Pam Grier's hair, especially.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Oh my gosh, the bangs.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Doing the most thes.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
My head canon is that she is like, the cops
are fucked a cab. I'm deliberately doing it.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
You're really gonna not solve this murder.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
She actually just knew what was coming from Marilyn Manson
and just wanted to lock him up.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh my gosh, that plot points specifically ages stunningly well.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
You're like, leave him there, leave him, no need to
revisit that.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
I honestly didn't even recognize. It wasn't until I was
like reading through the fun facts about this because I remember, like,
I don't know, he's prominently featured in the opening credits
and you're like, oh, and then at the end, I
was like, I don't think I know what he looks.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Like without his like makeup, right, because he's not in
his makeup in the movie. You're just like, that is
I guess that is Marilyn Manson, but a bummer I
devember to tad to see him. Anyways, I hadn't seen it.
I have mixed feelings about it, but like not feelings
that are so negative that I mean, it looks amazing.
You have the same costume designer as like Rome and

(08:09):
Michelle and clueless, like, there's a lot to love about it,
but I'm excited to get into it.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Caitlin, had you seen this movie before?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Okay, I don't know. I thought I had seen it
the whole way through. I had a friend my freshman
year of college. Shout out Tina, who exposed me to
some of my still favorite movies. She showed me Josie
and the Pussycats, she showed me American Psycho a few others.

(08:37):
But she had this very like eclectic taste in movies.
And some of it was like, you know, fun mainstream
bops that I just hadn't seen. Some of it where
were your things like Jawbreaker, which have a cult following.
Some were like movies that most people have never heard of,
such as Happiness of the Categories. Like o any Bechdel

(09:00):
heads out there are familiar with the Happiness of the Categories,
please let me know. Anyway, all this to say that
she showed me Jawbreaker, or at least I thought we
watched it all the way through together, because I have
the image of the trunk popping and Liz in the
trunk dead with like the bulge of the jaw Breaker

(09:22):
in her throat.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Like that image whoever was doing the practical effects in
this movie ooh, like truly one of the most bone
chilling corpses.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yes, And that image was like seered into my brain
and my memory for all times. So I was like,
of course I've seen this movie. I remember that very well,
but that happens in the first five minutes, and I
didn't remember any of the rest of the movie. So
I don't know if we like started watching it and
then we just started like talking over it and not

(09:53):
really paying attention. I don't know if I did sit
through it and just didn't remember anything except for that
one image.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
I don't really know.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
I feel like you'd remember the last shot as well,
if you'd seen.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
It all right, you would think, yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Those are the two that like are the most memorable,
the top and tail for sure. The middle of what
happens Who's I'm still not sure, YadA YadA.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Zach.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I will say that the scene that's like a flashback
when like Rose McGowan is having sex with Marilyn Manson
and the dead bodies under the bed, I was like, well,
I kind of remember that too, So maybe I just
I simply don't know how much of this movie I've seen.
All this to say, I've had some exposure to it before,

(10:38):
but not much, and watching it this time for the
podcast was basically like I was watching it for the
first time. So I'm excited to talk about it again.
I really don't know quite what to make of it,
both from a like personal taste point of view and
a like talking about it for the podcast point of view.
But again, we're gonna crack the case.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
We're gonna get to the bottom of it. I can
just feel it.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
We're going to get to the center of it some much.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh the job. I wanted to go get some like
gobstoppers to be you know, rattling around in my mouth
during this time.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
But I've never understood the appeal of those candies. I'm
a soft candy girl all the way. It's candy corn season.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
We do like candy corn. Sorry to say that with
so much judgment, but it is the.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
So bitchy the way you said that.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
I am the Rose McGowan of this episode.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, grow up, bitch. There is like a little baby
I do. I love the pumpkins. I just bought the
amount of like bad for you things I've had before
nine thirty in the morning. I'm finishing a root beer. Yeah,
I'm going to stop talking about personal taste at this time.
I'm realizing.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Okay, yeah, sorry, sorry to be so mean about it,
but candy corn is objectively the worst thing that was
ever invented.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
You're out of your mind. That is a really sick thing.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
That I'm not waiting into this one. You two are on.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Fair well. I guess we got to talk about Jawbreaker.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll come
back for the recap.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
And we're back, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Before the recap, I will place a content warning for
rape and specifically false rape accusations that will come up
in the recap as well as our discussion. So we
open on voiceover narration from a teen girl talking about

(12:51):
this group of the fore most popular girls at her
high school. They are Marcy played by Julie Ben's played
by Rebecca Gayheart, Courtney played by Rose McGowan, who is
the queen Bee and the meanest one of the group
and the nicest one, the most like quote unquote perfect

(13:13):
one is Liz Perr played by Charlotte Ayana. Now the narrator,
who is a character who we will soon meet named
Fern Mayo played by Judy Greer. Great character name, I think.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Oh my god, Formeo great early Judy Greer role great.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
But Fern Mao seems to be infatuated and obsessed with
Liz purr saying how she dreams of what it would
be like to be Liz because, unlike these four girls,
Fern is not popular. She goes unnoticed by her peers.
She's you know, nerdy. So then on Liz's seventeenth birthday,

(13:58):
she's kidnapped from her bed a huge jawbreaker, the titular
jawbreaker in fact, kind of.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
A character in the story when you think about it.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Okay, Also, when you think about it, it passes the
Bechdel test when this jawbreaker is shoved into the mouth
of one of the.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Characters, silencing women. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think it's like intellectual discourse to be sucking on
a job breaker.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
So that's my take on the matter, classic non candy
corn eater take. Okay, So a jawbreaker is shoved into
the mouth of Liz and covered with duct tape, and
then she's thrown into the trunk of a car, and
then we get a reveal that the three kidnappers are

(14:50):
actually just her three best friends, Marcy, Julie, and Courtney,
who are playing a little like surprise birthday prank on Liz.

Speaker 4 (14:59):
And this the thing you both did right like this
is all teen girls have kidnapped their friends.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, all teen girls.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
In more and more elaborate ways every year.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Right, right, right, and more dangerous. I will say that
one year and I don't remember. This would have been
I think my sixteenth or seventeenth birthday. My friends they
didn't kidnap me. I knew they were coming, but they
did then linefold me and drive me to I forget
which mall but a mall a few tons over, and
then we went to I want to say Spencer's Gifts

(15:33):
because I had never been to Spencer's Gifts before.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Wow, a little naughty, Caitlin. I know I've went into
a Spencer. There's a Spencer's Gifts on the third floor
of the Glendale Galleria. You have to really like navigate
carefully to find it.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, I don't know about this.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
I've been to the Glendale GALLERYA and I've Spencer's Gifts.
A sex shop.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
No, it's more it's like the idea of a sex shot.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
Right. They sell draws that are shaped like penises.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, it's more like it's like a jokey shop.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
For like dude brosh. Yeah, it's about a.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Twelve year old.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
There's a lot of stuff for they've really diversified their
perverted things. And I could say having been there recently. Anyways, Yeah, wait,
so you were brought blindfolded to a Spencer's kid.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, and then I took off the blindfold and I
was like, oh, this is cool. I actually probably really
enjoyed it at the time.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
As a whatever sixteen year old, I used to love
getting in the trunk of my friend's cars and scaring them.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Okay, I've never done that.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
Like after dance rehearsal, classic hilarious joke. I would Yet
I was the Captain Bragg woman and there was this
girl who's a year younger, and I would just get
in the trunk of her car because you don't leave
her car unlocked. Again in the trunk of her car,
it surprise her when she put her stuff away.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Wow, I feel like that could have gone really badly
for you.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yes, yes, but it's but I want everyone to know
that I'm willing to put my body on the line
for a bit.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I mean I've seen it before. I'll see it again,
I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah. I mean if I make it, we'll see. Anyways,
they do kill their friend, and this is I think
that's like one of the best jokes of the entire
movie that they're like, of course everybody does this, this
is what girls do.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
It is very funny, right, So what happens They throw
in the trunk with no nefarious intentions or anything, but
when they open the trunk, they discover that Liz is dead.
Apparently she had swallowed and choked on the jawbreaker, which
was Courtney's idea to shove into Liz's mouth. So Courtney
is the most culpable in Liz's death. They start panicking.

(17:45):
They try to figure out what to do. Julie wants
to go to the police and tell them about this incident,
which is effectively an accident. You know, they didn't mean
for her to die, but Courtney knows it's her fault
and she doesn't want to get in trouble, so she
coerces her friends into just going along with this plan
to keep it a secret, to go to school and

(18:08):
pretend like everything is normal. Courtney suggests that to get
them off the hook, they put Liz back in her
bed and make it seem like she was raped and
gagged with a jawbreaker and that's how she died. Unhinged again.
Julie tries to object, but Courtney is like, no, we're

(18:29):
doing this.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
It is so wild to me. Like one of the
more bizarre elements of the job Breaker world that I
feel like Heathers and mean girls does and this doesn't,
is like give you a sense of like the other
people in this world. You meet a couple of characters
outside of the main characters, but it's like with Courtney especially,
you're like, where did this girl come from? Like I

(18:52):
feel like part of the reason that the Heathers and
Regina George are so like they're horrible, but you at
least know that they have like some like core wound.
And you meet Regina George's mom, You're like, oh, of
course she's fucked up like this environment. But Corney just
like exists in this evil void. It's weird, yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
But everything about it is very dreamlike, like the fact
that Fern is somehow the captain of the cheerleading.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Squad, but when did that happen?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
How and when.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
When did that happen? And who was involved in that?
And like it all exists in this kind of like
the way a dream almost works, where you're like, I'm
popular now so now these things have happened to me,
but we didn't have to go from A to B.
We just magically transported ourselves there.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, there are many scenes that feel like they should
have taken place on screen that just happened off screen,
such as like Julie deciding not to be their friends anymore,
which is about to happen, right. You think you would
have like seen a confrontation where Julie's like, I'm not
going to be a part of this, but that just
suddenly she's like not walking with the popular girls anymore.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
It's just visually communicated to us by the fact that
she starts wearing Denham, and that's like how we understand
that she's no longer friends with them?

Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yes, exactly is your friend wearing Denham? Check on them?

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Right? They might have accidentally killed someone and don't know
what to do.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Okay, So they go to school, and at school, a
teacher named Miss Sherwood played by Carol Kane asks Courtney
to pick up Liz's assignments at the end of the day,
knowing that Liz isn't in school, though she doesn't know why,
of course, but Courtney is late in picking up the assignments,

(20:42):
but the narrator, Fern Mayo, happens to be right there,
so Miss Sherwood asks Fern to take the assignments to
Liz's home. The other girls find out about this, so
they race to Lizz's house before Fern can get there
to set this like a Lie Jude rape scene up.
It's very chaotic. They're kind of freaking out.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Sorry this is I was just thinking about Carol Caine.
I was like, where have we seen Carol Caine play
a kooky teacher before? And the answer is Confessions of
a teenage drama Queen. Oh my gosh, anyone else. I
was like, I've seen her play this exact character and
it's a couple of.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Years later in a Lindsay Lowhand role that is not
Mean Girls.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
But did come out in two thousand and four. Makes
you think the Matrix.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, yes, okay. So anyway, they're setting up this scene.
It's very chaotic. Julie finds this birthday card with a
recording of Liz's voice that's saying, what are you doing
to me? And then Fern comes into the house and
overhears Courtney saying that she killed Liz. Then Fern sees

(21:54):
Liz's dead body.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Which is looking rough so bruised.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
I don't know how it got bruised after her death.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I hadn't a jobbreaker was like full of battery, acid
or something.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, So Courtney coerces Fern into not telling, saying that
if she doesn't rat her out, they'll turn her into
one of the pretty and popular girls just like them,
which is what Fern has always dreamed of. So they
give Fern a makeover. They give her a new name, Violette,

(22:30):
and everyone thinks she's a new student. No one realizes
that this is actually Fern who has been transformed. Meanwhile,
Julie has left the group off screen. She wants nothing
to do with this.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
She bought a jacket at the gap and she's just finished.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Uh huh uh huh.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
And for some reason, another one of the more dream
logic key elements of this movie is like, at some point,
I really don't understand why Julie doesn't just tell, I.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Know, like because Courtney threatens her.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
Courtney says they'll all gang together and say it was
all It was all Julies Yeli, who did it?

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yes, that's right, which I understand is scary, but I'm
most like, if Courtney's outed as a murderer, she can't
do shit like anyways.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
But yeah, I guess that's why Julie stays quiet for
a while. Meanwhile, Courtney teaches Fern slash Violette how to
be cool and popular like them, and violet is loving it.
Then Liz's parents come home from whatever trip they were on,
discover their daughter's body and call the police. Enter Detective

(23:45):
Pam Greer. So we've got several Greers. We've got Judy Greer,
We've got Pam Greer, David Allen Greer, though, where is he?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Nowhere to be seen? Nowhere to be seen? And I'm
glad you brought that up.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Also, my other big criticism of the movie that it
lacks David Allen Greer.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Come on, Darren, it's the rule of threes exactly.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
I'm googling David Allen Green.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Oh you might know him from Jumanji.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
Okay, you might know him.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
He had a show, his own show for a while
that I think was called DAG which are his initials,
and then he's in other stuff that I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Anyway.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Well, I'm with you so much.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Okay, So Julie starts hanging out with this guy named Zach.
She also tries to connect with Fern slash Violette, presumably
to kind of help her get out from under Courtney's clutches.
It seems like they used to be pretty good friends
in elementary school, but again, Courtney's tyranny is not letting

(24:51):
that happen. Then there's a scene where Courtney is fooling
around with her jock boyfriend whose name is Dane, I think,
and then makes him fulate a popsicle, And that's that scene.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Then I guess we'll circle back to that.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, I guess. Then Detective Pam Grier starts questioning Courtney, Marcy,
and Julie, but they deny everything. Meanwhile, people are noticing
and wanting to befriend Violette, and still no one realizes
that she's Fern Mayo who's been transformed. Courtney tells her

(25:34):
she needs a boyfriend, and she picks someone out for
violet Zach Tartak, the guy who Julie has been seeing.
He's a drama kid. So Courtney signs Violette up for
the school play and she like gets cast in the
lead role. She's also the lead cheerleader. Now again, we

(25:54):
don't know quite how these things happen.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, I think so. I think you're that the dream
logic is just like, oh, yeah, she just becomes what
everyone thinks of being popular, and like, don't worry about
how she's don't worry about the fact that she's twenty
five years old. It's fine, right.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, Also, this movie's a satire, and you can get
away with a lot of things when you're doing satire.
So yeah, anyway, then Courtney goes back to Detective Pam
Greer and tells her that Liz was actually into some
very kinky stuff. You'd never know from her sweet and
innocent demeanor, but she used to go to bars and

(26:35):
take home random guys and one of them must have
gotten too rough and that's why she's dead.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Courtney is so diabolical, just slutshaming from like beyond the grave.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Right, because as she's saying this to Detective Pam Greer,
we are seeing a flashback of Courtney doing exactly what
she's describing Liz to have done. Where Courtney goes into
a bar, she picks up Marilyn Manson, who was Rose
McGowan's then boyfriend and She's like, do you want to
be in the movie, and he's like sure. So Marilyn

(27:09):
Manson is there and she takes him to Lizz's house
and has sex with him on Lizz's bed while Lizz's
dead body is hiding under the bed, or has been
hidden under the bed. It's not like her dead body
got up and hid that.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
So like, yeah, I was confused about the timeline of
that for a while. Did she do that? So she
did that before Lizz's parents got home? I think so.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
Yeah, seems like there was maybe an extra night. Was
it the day she died? Maybe she did it that night.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, I think she went back.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I was reading in the production about this, like that
that sex scene in particular, like nearly got the movie
in NC seventeen ratings. I think that they like maybe
the editing around it is a little confusing so that
people could see the movie right.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah. So it's at this point that Violet starts just
kind of wiling out with all this newfound popularity and power.
She gets a guy to give her a red Corvette
convertible again. She's been cast as the lead in the
school play and tries to seduce Zach, but it doesn't work,

(28:19):
and then Zach goes to Julie and is like, who's
that Violet girl? She's weird, what's up with her? And
then Julie proceeds to tell him about the whole situation,
how Courtney killed Liz and Fern Mayo found out about it,
so Courtney gave Fern all this social status and transformed
her into Violet so that she wouldn't tell anyone about

(28:42):
this death, this murder.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
And then out of nowhere, this random guy has become
the moral compass of the entire movie.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
You're like, this right, and the fact that they give
him like the big thing. I'll get to it, but like,
I'm like, that should have been one of the girls.
Why does he get to do the thing with the
sound recording anyway? So Zach is like, well, you have
to tell someone, Julie, so she agrees, and they try
to find evidence, like the polaroid photo that Courtney snapped

(29:10):
of Liz when they opened the trunk, but they can't
find the photo anywhere.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
They look really hard, though, they.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
Don't hard the parking spot, and they're like, wow, Wow,
I don't know, meanwhow I honestly though, I don't know
that Pam Greer's character would have done much better.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
I don't. She's like, yeah, some guy, we've got Marilyn
Manson in custody, and uh yeah, another hard days work.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
So what happens next is Julie ends up going to
Detective Pam Greer anyway and is about to tell her
what happened, but Pam Greer is like, well, we already
have Marilyn Manson in custody, so don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
And in retrospect, yeah, keep him there, right, But there's
also an evil Rose McGowan character on the.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Loose, right, So Julie realizes that Courtney must have done
this thing where she went back to Lizu's house and
framed Marilyn Manson more or less, so it's up to
her to take Courtney down. Meanwhile, Courtney doesn't like how
popular and beloved Violette has become, so she decides to

(30:24):
expose violet by posting all these photos of her when
she was still Fern Mayo.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
I love that The breaking point for her is Violette
sitting on the car and like dancing. She's like, that's it,
this is gone too far. Violet's bobbing.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
It's so funny that like that has everyone again just
like the idea of hero worship, because you're like, I
loved it. When Judy Greer comes to school with a
vanity plate that says bitch and also a T shirt
that says bitch, I'm like, yeah, yeah, exactly those scenes.
I'm like, this is the greatest movie ever made. And

(31:06):
then like, based on the Judy Greer aesthetics alone, it's great.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
For sure.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Courtney is in the bathroom with Marci and Marcy's like
she's gone too far, She's out of control, and Courtney's like, no,
everything's fine, and then literal seconds later she's like, this
is it. We're over just because we have to kill
Violet's on the hood of her cars, like you're you
were right, this is all it's all gone too far.
I must destroy her.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
The fact that like Violette is basically like Courtney's Frankenstein's monster.
I guess she's Courtney's monster, and then she decides that
she has to kill her own monster. That is at least,
you know, different from Heather's in Mean Girls, where it's
I guess if we're thinking Mean Girls. This movie also

(31:53):
was like I got to rewatch mean girls. They like
Katie is kind of Janice's monster. She's not really Regenis.
She's kind of like planted in there by the uncool kids, right,
but this one is just the calls coming from inside
the click. They're like, you're just the new girl.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
More like clueless. I guess where. Well, Alicia Silverstone is
like hey, Brittany Murphy, right, but like Alicia Silverstone is
nice and not mean like Corney's.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Did you see the weird I think it was like
a TikTok thing or maybe an Instagram thing where Alisa
Silverstone was recently like walking around and ate poisonous berries
like out of someone's yard.

Speaker 6 (32:37):
She was like, it's so funny, kayle, it's funny. She's okay, okay, okay,
but like I don't she's I don't know where she is,
but she's just she's like making this like really puckered
face and she's like, hey, guys, I just ate these berries.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Off of someone's tree and they tastes weird. Can anyone
tell me? Am? I sick? Like it was so bizarre, and.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Then she just went quiet for like twenty four hours,
and I was like, is she dead? Is she dead?
From berries.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Thankfully, the berries didn't get her, and once everyone found
out they were alive, they're like, why would you just
eat berries off of Like do you have no self
preservation instincts? It's why?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Well, there is that like I don't remember what it's called,
but like there's this movement where people are like, yeah,
we should eat the food that's on the trees grow,
especially in like La where they're like avocado trees. There's
citrus trees all over and people are like, we should
be allowed to eat this ray food. And so maybe
she's just like a part of that movement where she's like,

(33:44):
I'm going to eat.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
The street, but also like no one's like and you
should eat food off the trees and not confirm what
it is before I eat.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
People who were doing that know what they're eating all
berries famously fine according to her.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
I guess it's like a parable anyways.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Anyway, Okay, so what happens in the movie is that
Courtney exposes Violette as the nerdy, unpopular Fern Mayo, and
everyone is like ew yucky, gross, and Fern freaks out

(34:22):
so hard that she passes out. Been there, but Julie
and Zach come to Fern's aid, and they team up
to take Courtney down, but they don't really know how
until Julie's mom is like, hey, Liz's mom dropped off
some stuff that she wanted you to have, and one

(34:42):
of the things is that birthday card with Liz's voice recording,
except now it has a recording of Courtney's saying I
killed Liz. I killed the teen dream deal with it, which.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Does explain Earlier I was like, why are they why
and it's like, oh, because that's the evidence. It needs
to be really, it has to be admissible in the
cord of Pam Greer, which that is.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yes. So that night is prom because every teen movie
has to end in prom. So Julie, Zach, and Fern
go to Prom. Zach rigs up the sound system to
play that recording of Courtney's confession over her prom queen
speech when she inevitably wins prom Queen and everyone hears

(35:32):
this and they're like, oh my god, Courtney is such
a bitch from murdering Liz, and they're throwing their corsages
and stuff at her in a scene that reminds me
of Serce Lanister in Game of Thrones, like, oh, Wow,
I don't remember what happens in that show, even though
I've watched every episode, but she's been disgraced as queen

(35:53):
or something, and so everyone's like throwing stuff at her
as she walks through the town naked, and I was like, hmm,
it's like that.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
It's like that. I was thinking of the aesthetic of
that looks a lot like the cover of that whole album.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
M Yeah, Live through This. Yes, And actually Courtney is
named after Courtney Love, according to Darren, So okay, Darren,
maybe that's on purpose.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I see you, Darren.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
It's obviously also very Carrie, isn't it very Carey?

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah? God, I mean, Caitlyne. I know you hate a
prom scene. This one worked for me, though at least
it ended. I hate when the prompt scenes when they end, well,
I'm bored when they end terribly. I like, Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Don't automatically hate any movie that ends in prom or
any movie that ends in a wedding. I know, I
like bring it up a lot, but it's more that
I hate that it's become a trope because writers don't
have enough imagination to think of another way to end
a movie. But if there's like narrative purpose for it,
or it makes sense in the context of the story.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Fine, in the context of all that is.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
But the point here is that Julie got her ass,
and Courtney is disgraced and her empire is over the.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
End, and you're just not supposed to think about like,
so are Julie and Marcy on the hook for this
at all?

Speaker 2 (37:18):
I don't don't know, doesn't matter, I guess, yeah, but
that's the movie. So let's take another quick break and
we'll come back to discuss.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
And we're back. Yeah, where do we want to start?
What's jumping out?

Speaker 4 (37:42):
I feel like there's so many ways to cut this cookie.
I don't know. I forgot how bizarre it is, just visually,
like the way it's edited, the way the dialogue is.
There's so many things about it that are very unique
and that was fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
It's more visually stylized than a typical teen comedy.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah, I guess it owes something to Heather's for all
of that, like this overstylized costume and the bizarre affected speech.
I think a lot of this movie kind of doesn't work,
but it's almost got like so many other things that
are so great that they kind of balanced themselves out.
But I can imagine watching this, especially if you're not

(38:26):
like queer or have never really been in any way
exposed to queer stuff, that you might just be like,
this is a terrible movie. This sucks. I don't feel
that way, but I can kind of understand why you might, Right.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, like I feel like a
lot of what was helpful, like just learning more about
Darren Stein and like he was first of all, in
his twenties when he made this movie, which always makes
me feel very depressed about my own life. But this
is the second movie. He had made another movie called
I Believe Sparkler before this, and was very inspired by Heathers,

(39:08):
even though years on he was like, who's that what?
And I don't know. He's like an openly queer filmmaker
in the nineties, which was not a common thing. And
going back into it, there's two oral histories. One was
in Vice, one was in Entertainment Weekly. I'm mostly pulling
from the Vice one since it is kind of redundant
between the two, but the fact that you know in

(39:30):
Rose McGowan sort of speaks to this point that he
was sort of pigeonholed as a queer filmmaker and like
sort of is like, oh, well, he's like on the Fringes,
But really the only reason that that was was because
he was openly gay at a time where it was
just less common to be. So I don't know. I mean, like,
I can appreciate where he's coming from the movie looks amazing,

(39:53):
and there's things I don't know. I wanted to get
your opinions on this where I kept going back and
forth on like I wish I knew more about these characters,
But then I feel like, do I wish I knew
more about these characters? I'm not sure because it's like
the Courtney example of like she is just absolutely evil.
We don't know why, we don't know how she got there,

(40:16):
we don't know how she maintains it, but she just is.
And I'm like, do I want more? I don't know.
There's movies where you get more and I like them,
but I don't know what did she think of, like
how the characters are set up, because you just get
so little about their lives outside of this situation.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
I would say, Yeah, they're all kind of archetypes, aren't they.
They're like caricatures their art. They're not like anyone you
actually know. And I saw a quote from Rose McGowan
saying that, you know, if this movie were made now,
you would have Courtney's backstory and she wouldn't be allowed
to just be evil for no reason. It would have
to be like the story behind it. And so I
kind of like that she's just a villain just for

(40:54):
villain's sake, and it's all quite cartoony. But then the
movie also tries to give you some emotion old beats,
which then don't work, I think, because these characters aren't
kind of real, And so like the relationship that Julie
ends up having with Zach, you're like, what the hell
is this about the scene where she's like at the
pool and she's thinking about Liz, were you friends? Because

(41:17):
I don't know, it seems like the day she died
you started dating someone. So I don't know how sincere
your relationship really was. Yeah, So there's kind of problems
as a result of these characters being kind of underdeveloped,
But then there's also benefits to it as well, which
is kind of the cartooniness of it, I think, right.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
I was also thrown by the like Liz and Julie
were best friends because and I feel like it's stated
after that scene too, where she's like I think she
tells Zach, you know I was closest with Liz. You're
like news to me.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Didn't know right well, because Fern Mayo's voiceovers like Courtney
and Liz were best friends, but Courtney hated her actually
because she was so perfect and sweet and it's just
like what is going on here? And then to me,
Julie felt kind of all over the place where you

(42:10):
think she's gonna be a Courtney type in the sense
that she's mean and dismissive of her peers who are
less popular and have less social status, because you see
that image of them walking down the hall at the beginning,
and Fern Mayo has like dropped her books and they're
scattered all over the floor, and you see Julie just

(42:31):
like stepping over her very callously. But then as the
story goes, you find out that they used to be
friends in elementary school and they'll say hi to each other,
where Courtney will be like, get out of the bathroom,
this is our space, and like is like extra cruel
to Fern, And then you know Julie is the one

(42:51):
with the moral compass, and she's the one who's like,
I'm not gonna be a part of this. We should
tell someone. She's the one who tries to be friend Fern.
So I didn't really have a handle. It feels like
a little inconsistent in the way that she was characterized.
But maybe that's just like part of this satire again,
like satire kind of in this case at least like

(43:12):
muddles the story and the characterization.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
I feel, yeah, I was confused by jul I think
Julie's character maybe worked the least well for me because
I agree with the crystal like Courtney being of Vartex
of evil like at least it didn't really ch like
whatever the most evil thing to do in the scene
is Courtney is going to do that, or perhaps think
of something so evil you yourself could not conceive of it,

(43:38):
like all of the horrible things she does to Liz
immediately after her death. But Julie, Yeah, Julie being positioned
as like quote unquote the good girl. I mean, there
was like good girl, bad girl broad tropes that were presented,
but I didn't feel like really, I feel like they
were just presented, it didn't even feel like they were
really being satirized, where like Courtney is hyper sexual and

(44:03):
kinky and she's the world's worst person, and then when
it comes up later in the movie that actually Liz
was a virgin, Like, I don't know, I just feel
like it's these classic ways of characterizing who is good
and who is bad and how it's connected to promiscuity
in a way that like some parts of the movie
felt like I feel like the Fern Violette story that

(44:25):
felt like clearly satirically, you know what he's going for.
But there were other ways that the girls were talked about,
or like their morality was evaluated that felt like really
undercooked and just here's this trope the good girl was
a virgin and the bad girl has a lot of
sex and those elements, and I feel like Julie would

(44:46):
often sort of be involved in those if like she's
dating a nice guy from the drama club, she's good
or even though if you like like you're both saying
if you look at what Julie does, you're like, is
she good?

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Like it's that's kind of one of the issues when
you're making a movie that's very pastiche e and it's
like referencing Grease, and it's referencing Rocky Horror, and it's
referencing Heathers And you know, how do you avoid those pitfalls?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Right?

Speaker 4 (45:13):
You know, you're winking and nodding to those things, but
you're also trying, I don't know, how do you make
it also fresh or avoid the yeah, the slut shaming
ideas or making a movie that's almost entirely white in
nineteen ninety nine. You know, lots of things like that
that you're like, you forgot to think about this.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, yeah, there's just elements of it. I mean, it's
like he was like twenty eight when he made the movie.
But it does feel kind of undercooked in a lot
of areas or just like kind of confusing, where it
felt like the like style was like eclipsing me understanding
what was happening in the story, which also, if I'm
not watching a movie for this show is totally fine,

(45:55):
But yeah, I did find it a little tricky. The
stuff that did work for me was, you know, and
it's like a very dark view of teenage girls. But
the like narrative of like Fern of like how much
are you willing to compromise yourself to be socially accepted,
and like, I mean that, I felt like the style

(46:18):
and the script were like cooking together. I don't know
what did everyone make a Fern she's evil. I think
she's also evil, and I feel like she and Julie
kind of scooed out of this story like we did
it and you're like, you guys are also terrible, like yeh,
friend can be on the hook for withholding information from
the authorities.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Right and it, Yeah, it seems like she's just as
corrupt as Courtney potentially, but just like hasn't been given
the power and social status to enact any horrible evil things.
But yeah, she's seduced by the idea of popularity and
status and she doesn't hesitate to take it and only

(47:05):
when she's exposed as like being a fraud and oh
she's actually Fern Mayo and she's kind of left with
no choice but to And she doesn't even like revert
back to her old style. She like maintains the esthetic,
at least of Violet.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
She's like, I'm keeping the die job, I'm kissing the
die job.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
They kept complimenting her hair, like different characters, and I'm like,
I mean, I guess that was a popular style in
the late nineties, but I was like, I.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Feel like this movie is like intentionally kind of takes
place out of time because it's like the outfit we
see Fern in at the beginning of the movie felt
the closest to like actual nineties like grunge aesthetic closed.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
When had never been kissed come out.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
I think also ninety nine.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Okay, because I feel like Drew Barrymore is basically dressed
as Violette. Everyone's like, everyone's like, what the fuck you
wear it, which is a more accurate take on what
they're all dressed. Like like imagine seeing a girl in
a hot pink rubber skirt at your high school. You'd
be like, this is weird. Yeah, but I love I mean,

(48:14):
obviously the costuming is incredible, incredible, but it helps to
show that like this isn't real, right, right, what you
were saying about Violette though, Like I totally agree. I
think there's a lot of handwaving, like she's learned her
lesson and now she's good again. We don't actually see
any of that character development take place. She just gets
knocked over and has a bump on her head and

(48:35):
like that's enough, and we're supposed to just accept that
she's like learned her lesson, I guess, right, But I
think I think she is a really interesting character, and
I think there's a lot of the drag queen in
her and I can see a lot of myself in her,
where when you're a gay man and you're twenty, you
idolize the Courtney and you think that's who I want

(48:55):
to be because I want revenge and power on all
of the people who've wronged me as a weird teen.
And then you realize that you're actually the Marsie and
you're not doing anything particularly original. And then you realize
you're actually the Fern, and you've like created this thing
around yourself and you've got to kind of work to

(49:16):
figure out what the real you is under that. I
think there's a lot of like probably a lot of
like trans allegory in there as well, but it's something
that I kind of definitely relate to as like someone
who's actively built an alter ego. M right, and then
you have to kind of take a look at that
alter ego you've built and be like, what is that
informed by and like, is that okay, have I just

(49:38):
absorbed a lot of misogyny and like I'm now projecting it?
Or is it like is there some kind of balance
between all of those things.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Well, it's tricky because, like, on one hand, because social
status is like such an important currency for so many teens,
because of the emphasis we have placed on that cultural
you understand to some degree why Fern would be seduced
by that and intrigued by that, and the context for

(50:09):
why she ends up doing it is obviously like, oh god,
it's not worth it. You're covering up a murder. But
because this movie is very heightened and again fantasyish and
dream like and satirical, you're like, okay, I feel like
it works knowing the tone of the movie, but it

(50:31):
does make it hard to then talk about her or
the characters.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
I wonder I'd be curious to see like previous drafts
of this script because it seems like it changed a lot.
It used to be more overtly like Hoarry, and then
it sort of transformed into a black comedy. I feel
like Darren Stein couldn't decide which way. The ending for
Fern was really confusing for me because it's like, if

(50:58):
the core message of this movie is the very dark,
like anyone could be seduced by Courtney's offer, and that
like within every teenager is the capacity to like turn
into a Violette, then okay, stick with that, because at
the end it felt like Julie and Fern had turned

(51:19):
into the good guys in a way that like didn't
really track for me. I feel like it would have
been more interesting and still a consistent move at the
tone of the movie is to like have another beat
after the prom and have them all realize like, oh,
like right, we're all fucked. And speaking to your point, Crystal,
I'm curious, like what Fern is gonna do now in

(51:41):
terms of like does she want to maintain this persona
It seems like she does to some extent. What does
that mean for her? And like in whatever broad satirical way,
But it was I just felt at the end like
it was turned into a very clean ending where it's like, Okay,
we've we've killed the villain basically and not the Courtney
doesn't have a coming. She absolutely does, but everyone else

(52:03):
sort of went under examined that point was emphasized versus
having a clean dismount for anyone else, and Marcy too.
I thought Marcy was for the most part, she's not
really allowed to do much except be like ha ha
yeah exactly, which is her? Like she's like the Gretchen Wieners,

(52:24):
I guess at the operation, right, But you get one
scene of background for her, weirdly, which like her single
down interesting. I was like, more of whatever that was, please, Like, yeah,
can we talk about that scene? Because of all of
the girls, to get a family background scene, I mean,

(52:46):
you do see Julie's mom in passing, but like very briefly,
but you get a whole scene with Marcy and her
famously single dad and it's a really good, really.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Weird scene yet almost doesn't make sense within the context
of the rest of the story. But I was like,
it makes her look worse, but right, I guess it
characterizes Marcie a bit more. But yeah, I was like,
why is this scene here? Exactly? Similar to like why

(53:18):
is the scene where Courtney makes her jock boyfriend, yeah,
give oral sex to a popsicle? I guess to show
how twisted and sick she is.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
She kind of coerces him into doing it.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Too, Yeah she does.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Yeah, I feel like.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
This further proves that this movie is meant to be
consumed as vibes only, because why we cut from that
scene with Marcy and her dad to Liz emerging from
the pool and apparently she and Julie were best friends,
and you're like, huh what Anyways, I really enjoyed the
scene with Marcy and her dad. It felt like it

(53:58):
was so weird that she sort of the like lowest
ranking character on the like character I need to know
more about tier gets this scene. But I really enjoyed it.
I mean, the dad being like I was watching Oprah
and I think you might be a follower and she's like,
shut up, dad, Like it was cool. I don't know,

(54:19):
Like having that scene made me realize and just think,
like how the movies this movie is compared to has
more of that and has more of the like the
heightened entire society. And like then I was thinking of
the funeral scene at Heather's. Why didn't we get to
go to Liz's memorial, Like just stuff that you think
would be there that just sort of happens off screen

(54:40):
and isn't really referenced.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
Well, it's possible that this entire movie takes place in
like three days.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I think, so true.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Yeah, maybe the memorial hasn't happened.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
Yeah, it's like it's very hard to say how much
time has passed. Like it's simultaneously been enough time for
Violet to become the queen of high school, but all
so like not enough time for there to have been
a memorial or like a proper investigation. I don't know.
It's confusing. It's stretchy movie logic time.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Yeaheah. I'm sure someone's made a seven hour YouTube video
about it, Like I've cracked the timeline and I would
watch that.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
What do we think about Courtney and that sex scene
with her boyfriend, not the Marilyn mensenone.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
I agree with Caylin. I don't know why it's there.
I mean, I get it. It's like making the point
of like she is hyper sexual, and that is like
a part of why I feel like we're kind of
encouraged to like celebrate and judge her at the same time,
because it is fun watching Rosmagowan be evil. Yeah, but
also I think she is like coercing the other character.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
I mean, I guess the function of the scene is
to reinforce how coercive she is not only with her
like girlfriends, but with her like hetero man partner, and
he he doesn't protest really, so it almost is suggesting maybe, like,

(56:06):
look at the power and control she has over everyone.
We already know that, though, So I don't really know
why we need to see another scene.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
I mean, I don't, like, I'm not like upset about
a sex scene itself, but yeah, the way it's presented
is like. The thing that I liked about Courtney's relationship,
if you could call it that, with that guy, is
that she is very clear headed about what high school
relationships are and she's like, he I don't care about
what happens to him in forty eight hours. He is

(56:38):
a status symbol for me. That's and I feel like
that was at least something I don't think I've seen
a lot in teen movies, is like teen girls in
these like very movie hetero relationships, treating the guy like
garbage an accessory. Yeah, yeah, true, So there's that.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
This was the first time I watched it, and I
wondered if Courtney was maybe gay.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
I mean, Fern is very maybe gay, I agree, yeah,
but maybe Courtney too, And like, but maybe she hasn't.
She's even like deeper in the closet in a way. Yeah,
but like the creating of a woman and using sex
as like a tool rather than like seeming to have
any real interest in using a man as like a

(57:24):
social status tool. I don't know, there's there's kind of
lots of that. And then like having her own fallis
with that popsicle.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, it's like this is this is.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Really gay for Courtney, this whole scene.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Yeah, with the dynamic with Fern and Courtney too, where
I mean Courtney is obsessed with control no matter what.
But it's like when her creation is out of her control,
she that's where it seems like it becomes personal for
her in a way that we rarely see things be personal. Yeah,
I buy into that theory. And also, yeah, Fern is
like heavily. I mean, I don't even know if you

(58:02):
could really call it coating. It's not like I don't know,
I mean, we don't see if Fern have the only
love interest she pursues that is a man, is because
Courtney told her to do it. It wasn't because she
had any actual interest. She was just doing what her
Frankenstein said to do. Right.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Meanwhile, she's telling Detective Pam Greer like I used to
smell Liz's hair and look at the birthmarks on the
back of her neck and salmon, salmon and the sea creatures,
and so you know, it seems like she's very like
amorously infatuated with Liz.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Which is like a fine I like that. You know,
everyone in this movie is evil, so it's not like
she's being set up to be a queer villain necessarily,
but that, just like that also just gave me a
story problems where I was like, why wasn't she more
upset that Liz died if she was with her?

Speaker 4 (59:01):
Yes, but it's the constant gay conundrum of like am
I in love with you? Or do I want to
be you? And so someone's now giving you you've only
got one choice left because she's dead, and someone's saying, well,
you could be her, you could be Well, I guess
we'll try it.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
The next best thing.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
Yeah, brutal. I mean those line reads that Judy Greer
gives Detective Pam gear Wow, two geers. Yeah, the Greers,
two Geers, one room about you know, like their version
of It's Chinatown Jake, Like they're like it's high school.
No One is a Friend? Really good reference, Janie, thank you.

(59:38):
I've never seen that movie, but I do. Let me
be clear, I haven't seen If you've.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit, you've basically seen Chinatown.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Great, then I've that. I have definitely seen then I've
seen it one hundred times. But yeah, I mean, like
you get those lines of like is anyone in high
school really a friend? Which is a very dark I
don't know, like all the click movies have to sort
of abide by that logic, and it's especially if you
like had a hard time in high school, is very

(01:00:09):
cathartic and fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
That relates to a separate, kind of broader issue. I
have with the idea of like mainstream movies about teen
girl friendship, because so many of them have a premise of,
like they're very mean and cruel to each other, if
not violent and murder each other. And this is one

(01:00:32):
of those movies. You know, Obviously Mean Girls is another one,
Obviously Heathers is another one. They all exist in the
same like they're all kind of inspired by each other.
And then you've got like more contemporary examples like Do
Revenge and I'm just sort of waiting for teen girl
movies that center on their friendship, because another version of

(01:00:55):
teen girl movies is their hetero love interest.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
I mean, they do exist. So you've got your Sisterhood
of the Traveling Pants, you've got your guys, like yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
But those people are just kind of few and far between.
Like I'm always like, why aren't there more stories that
celebrate female friendship and don't have them be outwardly cruel
and or violent to each other?

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
So I don't know, I mean, I agree with you,
but I do think those movies are out there, and
I find them more boring.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Well, there aren't enough of them. There could be more
fun ones, and like they could be in different genres.
They could be fun like adventure movies, they could be
you know anything. I guess there's quite a few horror
movies to that effect. But again, like ones that center
on friendship and like girls working together, and sure there's
gonna be misunderstandings or arguments along the way. That's how

(01:01:50):
friendship works.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
I'm going to see Harriet this by this weekend. I'm
so excited. Oh nice.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
Basically you're pitching this movie, but it turns into weekend
at Bernie's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yes, actually a movie I've never seen also, but I
know the premise.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
They just have to they have to get Liz to
graduation hijin.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Yeah, they gotta get her to troum.

Speaker 7 (01:02:12):
She's got to win from Queen anyways, just put some
sunglasses on, a scarf around her neck, a little cravat
if you will, and uh yeah, I mean more dark
high school comedy is revolving around functional, well not functional,
but like common goal friendships between teen girls.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Like I think one thing that I wish, I don't know,
if I could change one thing about Job Breaker, I
would replace Zach with another teenage girl like Plant, a
character that Julie can become friends with, someone who can
be you know, like it plant her earlier in the movie,
Does fern have one friend who she's completely bailed on

(01:02:55):
who is now like where the fuck is Fernad and
Julie can connect with her, Like I feel like there
is space to sort of address what you're not completely
because Courtney is going to Courtney and Marcy's going to
Marcy all that, but to have at least a positive
connection between teen girls in this movie, or a functional
connection between teen girls, because I agree that like Zach,

(01:03:17):
I don't mind being in a world where it's like
everyone hates each other and its evil. But if that
world is if the only person who is not that
is a random boyfriend, then I feel like you've kind
of got a problem right where because Zach all of
a sudden, has a ton of agency and is like
the moral center of the movie, and almost everyone else
you see is an evil woman, Like you're just like, well,

(01:03:41):
what is this? You know, I feel like replacing him
with a teen girl that Julie can genuinely connect with
instead of just being told that she was Liz's friend.
Like we're told about positive connections between these girls, but
we never actually see it and it never has any
narrative consequence, right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Yeah, And it still bugs me that he's the one
who like rigs up the whole sound system thing, Like
that's not his victory to accomplish, Like he again, he's
just like this random dude. And to give the boy
like a like technical technology thing to do, kind of suggesting, well,
girls don't know how to do technology. It just annoys me.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
Yeah, maybe the problem I feel with this movie, which
is also its strength. You know, we've talked a lot
about how these are kind of cartoon characters, and therefore
they're kind of missing what you've been looking for, Caitlin,
which is like deeper connection. And I think that's basically
going to be a limitation of a man writing a
movie about teen girls. This is true, and he's got

(01:04:47):
a leg up because he's gay, and so he's kind
of hitting some of the marks, but he's not hitting
all of the marks. And I think there is a
bit of a feeling that I come away with with
this movie that all of the women in this are
kind of being treated like barbies or dolls for him.
They're acting out these tropes and these scenes and these

(01:05:09):
ideas that he's got, but there's a little bit missing from,
you know, the meat, And I think that's what makes
me feel a little bit of a lack. On the
other hand, like I don't know anyone other than a
gay man who could write a Courtney, And it's like
she is a gay man's revenge fantasy, power fantasy. She's

(01:05:31):
like the Frankenfurter. She's got so much to her that
I'm so glad exists, and it's like fun to see
villains like that who exist. So I don't know that
I necessarily want anything to change. But like, as you say,
it's almost like a different movie made by a different
person would solve some of these problems and potentially over
correct some of the good things.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Right, Yeah, it's tricky. I do feel like it's possible
to make movies in the like dark teen comedy John
that avoid some of these mistakes. But I think like
viewing it as playing with Barbies actually kind of does
even with the dream logic aspects, this could be staged
by barbies. And yeah, there's like certain parts where it's

(01:06:15):
like Rose McGowan is just going like full Joan Crawford
and it's great. I don't know, I don't know what
I want this movie to do that it's not doing.
It doesn't feel like a movie that can really go
another way. But yeah, I agree with you, Caitlin that
like having some sort of functional or just like more
layered relationship between women, because I would say, like Mean

(01:06:39):
Girls has a lot of the similar problems of this,
but at least we like do understand why these friendships
aren't functioning and that they're not like just inherently evil.
It's like you understand what the communication breakdown is between
Katie and Janis or like whatever it is, which does

(01:06:59):
just feel like something that comes from experience.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Probably Yeah, and like more money and more time with
this script and right edits and a big red marker
and lots of that. You kind of do all of
that to Jowbreaker and you get mean girls.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Yeah right. I don't know, I feel that because it's
like I really did enjoy this movie and I know
how like beloved it is, and it's like a classic
like bombed at the box office and then found its
footing at sleepovers, which is like as it should be.
It is tricky. I don't know. The biggest swing for
this movie that I was like was that necessary? Was

(01:07:38):
just the fundamental plot element of like we need to
make it seem as if she's been raped. Yeah, because
again it's like, yes, that is something that is the
most evil character in the world, who is Courtney would do?
But again, it just like makes all of the other
characters that we're supposed to be rooting for look really terrible.

(01:08:00):
And like I understand why Darren Stein is taking that swing,
because it is like it's an edge lord writer decision.
I feel like, of like, what is the most extreme,
potentially offensive thing I could make this character do. But
I it could have been literally anything else. It could
have been something else bad. I just didn't I don't

(01:08:20):
know that decision just like didn't sit well with me
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Me either, because it's movies like this that contribute to
the perpetuation of the idea that reports of rape are
actually often false and made up and you can't trust
anyone who says they've been raped, when in reality, it

(01:08:44):
is not very common for a rape allegation to be false,
and it is statistically far more likely for a rape
to happen and not be reported than it is for
a rape to be reported and have it be a
false accusation. But there's all this media like this movie

(01:09:05):
that supports this idea that rape accusations tend to be
bogus and that has like really horrible real world consequences,
And so that is the big thing for this movie
that rubs me the wrong way. I feel like, kind
of similarly Courtney, and again, this is like the evil

(01:09:25):
character having this behavior and having these ideas, but that
she tends to kind of conflate kink with rape. And
I can't really tell how the movie feels about it,
or if it's just like, oh, this is the evil character.
But because to me, that distinction isn't very clear as
far as like how the movie feels about it, and

(01:09:47):
that should be a clearer distinction. I don't know. It
just we've covered a lot of movies from this exact year.
It's a big year for movies for lots of movies,
and then specifically teen movies that have like at least
one fundamental, highly problematic element. I'm thinking, like cruel intentions

(01:10:12):
and she's all that and never been kissed and stuff
like that. But you'll have characters in those movies who
are just dropping very of the era, like casual homophobia,
casual racism, and the movie's not challenging it, and it's
just like, yeah, this is just reflection of the culture
of the time. In this movie, you do have characters

(01:10:34):
making disparaging remarks about like girls how much they weigh
and having eating disorders, and disparaging remarks about queer people,
about people with disabilities, but I think those are always
like the evil, mean girl characters, and the satire of
the movie I feel like suggests, oh, well, the movie

(01:10:57):
is not endorsing these attitudes. But I don't feel the
same way for how it handles this like false rape
accusation component of the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Yeah, I just feel like he was not the writer
to even attempt something this extreme, just based on how
it's executed and the fact that, like it could have
been something else and the movie would not have had
to change, right, I think that honestly, going for a
more Weekend at Bernie's gag there is like still tonally consistent,

(01:11:29):
can still be really dark and would not yeah, make
a pretty like broad negative statement about rape allegations, especially
in a movie that you know, it's not that anyone knew,
but that prominently features Marilyn Manson. You're just like, ah
yea yui. Yeah, feels like a good reminder. Yeah, I
just wish that they had done a Weekend at Bernie's

(01:11:49):
style gag instead of that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
Yeah, It's like so many of the choices in this
movie are silly or campy or over the top or
like you're clearly kind not meant to take it that seriously,
and then they throw in this like actually, really, I
don't know why I feel that like a death is worse,
but it doesn't feel as bad because it's it's also
portrayed in this really silly way, and that actually Courtney's

(01:12:15):
sex scene with Marilyn Manson, it's like all of that,
it is all hard to watch. And yeah, maybe maybe
Darren wasn't quite the right person to be taking on
that topic, but.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Yeah, I mean it's like this isn't like a specific
problem with Darren Stein. I mean, like Kitle, like you
were saying, in this year alone, there were a lot
of big swings and teen movies that just aged spectacularly bad,
and this is the one that this one does exactly.
I do think I wish that Darren Stein. I mean,
he should have been directing more stuff. I'm kind of

(01:12:47):
surprised that we haven't seen as much from him, and
that always kind of especially when you have a marginalized director.
I'm always kind of like side eyeing, why haven't they
made more? When they made Sure it didn't do great
at the box office, but it came this big iconic movie.
And you know, whenever if you have a straight white director,
how many flops are they permitted to unleash upon the world.

(01:13:09):
I don't know what this story there is. Maybe he
took a step back. I'm not totally sure, but I
always do just kind of side eye that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
Totally, especially when he's clearly got so many ideas. Yeah,
so many choices are made in this movie that like
it needed someone creative and visionary to do. You know,
the way the sound editing is is just like one example,
it's like someone was really like creatively running on both
cylinders when they made this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
There's so many goofy like yeah, sound effected during like
scene transitions.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
And this is the second movie we've covered recently that.
We also recently covered sixteen Candles, which he does side
like the John Hughes teen movies as an influence. But
we just covered sixteen Candles the other day for the
Matreon and there is boy is the Howard Stern soundboard
out on that movie kind of on this one too. Yeah,
the sprayings. There's like one time when the jock is

(01:14:04):
like learingly looking over at Courtney and you hear like
some creepy I don't know noise.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
That could work. I wasn't going to try that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
I've seen Roger arrive at one hundred times and it
just kind of comes to me naturally.

Speaker 4 (01:14:23):
But even like the wooshes for like the wipes as well,
so silly. Yeah, and the whole makeover scene, which is
like something out of poor things like gothic Frankenstein in
vibrant jawbreaker colors, Yeah, potions and spinning chairs and like, yeah,

(01:14:43):
it's so psychedelic. It's really cool. So I totally agree. Basically,
he should have been allowed to do more and make more.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
Yeah, and he's like in his early fifties. I hope
that happens.

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
Yeah. There is a movie called GBF, which my friend
actually wrote and Darren directed, which is kind of of
oh wow. Yes, it's almost the gay version of your
teen movie, and it's got gay protagonists in high school
and it's exploring the idea of popularity as well. But
you don't need to imagine yourself as Courtney. You can
just see yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
That's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
I remember hearing about that movie. I haven't seen it, though.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
It says for Gay Best Friend, right, yeah GBF. Yeah, yeah,
I remember when it came out. I feel like it
may be worth at least briefly acknowledging Rose McGowan and
the history she has with being a turf where if
anyone's not familiar. Back in twenty seventeen, she went on

(01:15:40):
RuPaul's podcast and said some very turfy transphobic things. I
didn't know that, although even before that I was reading
that she a couple of years earlier said some remarks
either too or about Caitlin Jenner that were also transphobic. Then,
at a book event few months after this podcast appearance

(01:16:03):
in early twenty eighteen, a trans woman confronted her about
her remarks, and Rose McGowan told her to shut up
and then proceeded to go on a transphobic rant. Sometime later,
she gave what I feel is not a great apology.

(01:16:24):
Others might feel differently. You know, who of us can
actually know how a celebrity who has a very like public,
performative kind of life how they actually feel personally. But
I feel like she realized that being transphobic wasn't great
for her image, so she walked back a lot of
her comments in order to restore her image. Or maybe

(01:16:47):
she genuinely learned and listened and feels differently. We haven't
really heard anything about it since, I don't think, because
the following year it was when she was in the
news again, but this time revolving around the Me Too movement.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
Thank you for sharing that because I was not aware.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Oh I remembered when it happened, So I like that
was just in the back of my mind as I
was watching the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
I've just skimmed her apology from twenty nineteen. I don't
know if that's the one you're referencing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Yeah, from I think Pink News.

Speaker 4 (01:17:21):
Yeah, and you know it's not certainly not my apology
to accept, but I don't mind it. It's an apology.
But I am skimming while we're on the.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
In real time.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
So yeah, I completely forgot all about that. Yeah, I
mean she's put her foot in it a few times,
I feel, yes, And she's also done a lot of
really cool and brave stuff, so she's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
A complicated figure. Well she has leave it at that,
I suppose, yeah, she is. Do we have any other
thoughts about the movie?

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
I don't think so. I mean I wanted to echo
what Crystal said earlier and that like, this is a
very white movie. I think the only people of color
who have any I mean, it's really just Detective Pam
Greer and she's doing a terrible job. And there's a
Tatiana Ali character as a Tatiana Ali fan named Brenda,
who appears for a hot second.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Oh, she tries to befriend Violet.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
Yes, and she's just like, you're so awesome. Also, my
name is Brenda, and then she's gone, your your.

Speaker 4 (01:18:21):
Like she was in Fresh Prince right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Yeah, yeah, she's a Titan of Nicked Knight to me.
But yeah, outside of that, it is like a very
very white movie in a way that is in no
way necessary, Like not that it's ever necessary, but there's
no like historical context. We have no idea where this
movie is necessarily taking place, Like it should be a

(01:18:44):
more diverse world with a more diverse cast, and instead
it is nineteen ninety nine, and these kinds of creative
decisions were made all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Yes, as far as the Bechdel test goes, not a problem,
not a problem, passes a lot. In fact, they're rarely
talking about boys. They're almost always talking about how do
we cover up the murder of our friend that we did?
And I'm gonna make you a star?

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Yeah, why do we hate each other? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Yeah, so that is nice. I do appreciate that boys
are not the center of their worlds, the way a
lot of media about teen girls like presents boys as
being so much of their focus and every thing. But
like the prom king character, this good looking jock boy

(01:19:39):
is like an afterthought in most scenes if he appears
at all, and the only time he gets prominently featured
is when Courtney kind of forces him into filating a
popsicle and you know, feel about that how you want.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
But outside of Zach, though, I I mean, yeah, men
really have no consequence in this world exactly, And that's
a rare thing to see in a movie's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
As far as our nipple scale, man, this is another
one of those movies where I'm just like, I don't
know two and a half. I'll just do again the
backdol cast cheat code, which is just split the diffs,
split down the middle two point five. I appreciate its
legacy as a cult movie with a following that is

(01:20:34):
largely She's the A's and gays kind of thing. It
does center women by and large. The women are misbehaving,
and I do appreciate that. I like to see girls
doing bad things sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Wow, that's really brave stance to take.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
Girls gone wild if you will.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Yeah, I love it when girls go wild.

Speaker 3 (01:20:58):
Yeah, rarely behaved women history make make said somebody.

Speaker 4 (01:21:04):
Yeah, Fritz magnet.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
So I do appreciate that, and I don't mind that
it's like an entry into the like ouvra of mean
girls being mean to each other in high school. I
just wish that there were more examples of that not
being the case that do center teen girls having like

(01:21:29):
solid friendships. But it's an interesting movie. It's way too white.
The way it handles the concept of rape allegations and
false rape allegations is very, very messy, and the thing
that holds up the least well about the movie, I
think because of that, I'll drop it down to two nipples.

(01:21:52):
I'll give one to Pam Greer and I'll give the
other to Judy Greer. The Greers get my.

Speaker 3 (01:21:58):
Nips, I'll do two and a half. I think that
this movie is like taking a lot of big swings.
It is. I wish it had done better at the time.
I understand maybe why it didn't, because there were a
lot of movies like this and just such a glut
of teen movies in this particular year. But I also
think that you know, very often with marginalized directors, they
don't get the marketing power behind their work that they deserve.

(01:22:21):
And I admire what Darren Stan's going for here. I
think that there's a lot of the big swings do
not connect for me, but you know, I think it's
earned its place in the Sleepover pantheon. So I'll go
two and a half nipples. I'm gonna give I'm given
a full set to Pam Greer because she just was
cracking me up. Her character also wildly inconsistent, where she's

(01:22:44):
like really onto the girls and then just drops it
for what who knows, And I'll give my final half
nip two. I guess I'll give it to the Denim
Jacket that Rebecca gay heartwars because it does a lot
of narrative heavy lifting. The jacket didn't know it had
to work that hard, and I respect that.

Speaker 4 (01:23:05):
Yes, I'm going to go a little higher. I think
I'm going to go three and a half nipples, And
that's partially, I think because of the nostalgia I have
for this movie. But I agree with everything that you've said.
You know, a lot of the swings don't connect, but
I think a lot of them do, and I think
it's kind of a really important stepping stone movie for

(01:23:27):
a lot of what we've got today. So I'm really,
really happy it exists, and it's been a formative movie
for me in lots of ways, so I'm glad about it.
I'm going to give a half nipple to that stillborn chick.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
Thank god. Dad is great.

Speaker 4 (01:23:47):
Yeah, and I'm going to give the three nipples to
the goth girl. Oh yes, who puts her finger in
the ball.

Speaker 3 (01:23:53):
Yeah, bless her heart.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Yeah, Oh my gosh. Well, Crystal, thank you so much
for joining us.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
Thank you for I don't know if we cracked it,
but we kind of did. It turns out it's complicated,
it's tricky, it's chicky.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
We didn't break the jawbreaker, I would say, but we
gave it.

Speaker 4 (01:24:10):
Are all we peeled off a couple layers.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
Onions have layers, jaw breakers have layers. What would you
like to plug? Tell us where we can find your stuff?

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
Ah, thank you. You can follow me on all the
channels at Crystal We'll see you now. And I've got
all kinds of content all the time, So check.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
It out, please do. It's great, and you can follow
us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to
our Patreon aka Maatreon at patreon dot com slash Bechdel
Cast where you'll get two bonus episodes every single month
with Jamie and myself. We're talking really cool themes, we're

(01:24:57):
talking really sassy sex. See episodes. You know you don't
want to miss them.

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
It's a friggin blast. I'll say it. I'll say it. Yeah.
In this month, I mean, we're obviously getting into scary
movie season, so we are covering Pearl and the Exorcist,
and you also get the backlog of over one hundred
and fifty episodes going on two hundred at this point.
I think so join the Matreon. It's a fun community,
and if you're looking for a way to support the show,
that's the best way to support the show truly. You

(01:25:24):
can also get our merch at teapublic dot com. Slash
the Bechdel Cast, get all your holiday needs whatever. None
of our business. It's none of our business. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
Oh, we have spooky seasons coming up, and so you're
gonna want our beetlejuice wet scabs, dry scabs shirts.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
Yeah, I was thinking a suspicious lack of what scabs.
We should have been pushing those shirts ahead of the
new movie.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
But beetlejuice, beetlejuice.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Slip laugh love with that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
Shell, we get in the trunk of our friend's car
on per.

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
I'm getting on the hood, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
And then we'll have a little fun road trip.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
We'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Game by Hi. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,
hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman,
edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by
Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in
merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

(01:26:30):
to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please
visit link tree slash Bechdel Cast

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