Kiki's Delivery Service with Joelle Monique

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef
invest start changing it with the bec Del cast. Hey,
Mr Rante, Yes, Miss Loftus, we had one very very

(00:23):
brief encounter. Now you have to be my best friend
forever until I die. Well, I think you're rude because
you didn't properly introduce yourself. All right, I guess I'll
just keep showing up until you change your mind. And oh,
look at that. It worked. We're best friends and now
I'm going to save your life. It's because I was
falling off of a plane, you know. It's it's complicated.

(00:47):
It's complicated. Well that was sure at intro. Welcome to
the back Tell Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My
name is Caitlin Darante. I hesitated because I was like,
am I gonna like call myself miss witch or something?
But then I did, I didn't, and then it just
made it sound like I didn't know what my name was. Look,

(01:07):
it's good, everything's going great, everything's going great. It's fine.
You can call yourself miss which why not. Yeah, um,
this is the Bechtel Cast, where we examine movies through
an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Test as a
jumping off point. The Bechtel Test being a media metric
created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel

(01:31):
Wallace Test. There are many versions of the test, but
the one that we use currently requires that two characters
of a marginalized gender must have names, they must speak
to each other, and their conversation has to be about
something other than a man, and ideally it is a

(01:52):
narratively meaningful conversation and spoiler alert today is gonna have
no problems the first seen passes. I think. I don't
think two male characters speak to each other at all
in the entire movie. No, I know that they make
eye contact. But also I was really interested in Um,

(02:16):
usually we're having the reverse discussion, but I didn't know
until because I'm a big fan of this movie, but
I'd never really researched the adaptation changes before. It's the
Kiki delivery service episode, by the way, but I didn't
realize that the gender swapped. Guh gig in the Japanese
dub is a lady cat. Uh, and I guess that

(02:39):
cats in UM Japanese fiction are traditionally presented feminine. UM.
And they switched it to Phil Hartman, which I don't
hate it all. Like, I think if the Phil Hartman
UM gig performances a delight, you know, it brings us
certain newsies, genesee whatever to to the part. But originally, yeah,

(03:03):
I think that the only a tent they could find
men interacting is when a Sona's husband looks at Gig.
But I guess in the original movie that wouldn't have
even applied because g is in the original movie. How
about that? Things I learned today, I do like that
They're like, let's make this cat sound like he's from
Long Island for some reason. You're like, all right, I'm

(03:25):
okay with it. Does that mean the romance between the
two cats, because the other cat seems to be coded
quite feminine, does that mean it's a queer cat relationship.
Let's say yes, Yes, Let's say yes. Let's say that. Okay, great,
I love that. Anyways, welcome to the factel cast. This

(03:47):
movie is about women. Uh, and we have an amazing
returning guest today. Let's get her in the mix. Yes,
she is a pop culture critic. She's an executive producer
at I Heart Podcast. She's an executive producer and co
host of a new show, comic con Metapod. And you
remember her from our Little Princess episode. It's Joel Monique.

(04:09):
I love that I could just talk about all my
girlhood favorites with you. I just get to come in
here and talk about the women that shaped me. Last time,
we're really embracing all of my virgo libra aspects. Okay,
it's girls doing princess e things with pinkies up, and
today we're going to embrace my power of no girl
who I really love I'm obsessed with. Kiki were the

(04:31):
same age she came out in eighty nine, as did I. Um,
and my cat relationship is absolutely clear in my head now.
I didn't know that. In the Japanese prison it was
two lady cats, but now lesbians and one is just
very mask and I think that's okay, and I love it.
I love it. Joel. What is your history with this
movie other than you and Kiki both dropped the same year. Yes, yes, okay,

(04:57):
So aroundabout I would like to say a mid to
late nineties. Early two thousand's Cartoon Network introduced me to
the world of anime and Kicks Delivery Services, a movie
they would play on Sundays, sometimes Saturdays. Maybe we'd come
on a late Friday night, usually not usually it was
like a mid afternoon thing. And that's Swindwell was at
home watching TV. And wow, did I fall in love

(05:20):
really fast? Um? You know, Spirited Away came out when
I was older, and it came out in theaters and
I have like a much longer in depth interaction with
that film, just because it was advertised to me at
the right age. This movie was like, here's an old film,
you might like children, and I really did. And it
was so cool because it really took I like to

(05:42):
call it a reverse fairy tale where there's a lot
of magical elements, but it's completely grounded as opposed to
a lot of the other things I was consuming, which
is super high fantasy. And you know, very like almost
all of the stories are Romeo and Juliet inspired, but
they get together at the end, they don't die. It's
totally fine, kids risk at all the rebellious no consequences

(06:06):
or is this you know? It was very much about
a young girl just trying to figure it out, and
especially because I was the type of thirteen year old
who was like, I'm pretty sure I could move to
New York and pay rent and do it. I think
I could live by myself. I don't need these other people.
And Ki really spoke to me on that she was
like just out there doing it for herself. Um. I

(06:27):
feel like it was my working girls before I became
of age to watch that movie. And I feel like
so Ya supposed to my history of Saw on Cartoon
Network a lot. And then I got into college and
I was able to stream it a lot. Shout out
to lime Wire. Oh my gosh, I forgot about lime Wire.
Never forgot a class I heard for Classic definitely destroyed

(06:49):
my first dell with Wire does. Yeah. I ended up
with some real disgusting things on my family's computer as
a result of Um, but you know it was all
in the interest of bringing music to the people or something.
Or Oh that's beautiful though, Jamie. What's your relationship in

(07:13):
history with kikiS Delivery Service? Uh? This is the Miyazaki
movie that I have the longest and closest history with.
I think I saw this movie. I remember my friend
Samantha Honeywell shout out because I was always like, that's
the coolest name I've ever heard. Um. The Honeywells had

(07:34):
this on vhas the English dub um sometime when I
was in elementary school. My whole family was very into
U witchy stuff. My aunt and uncle practiced witchcraft, and
so I was always really into witchy movies, especially when
they were young girls. I had a black cat, so

(07:57):
it was just it was very easy to play get
to the Kiki fantasy and also like just I mean,
I haven't seen this movie, and I want to say
at least five years, but probably longer because there was
a time where it's in the US unless you owned
mi Azaki movies. They weren't like the most streamable stuff.
It was a big deal when they were put on HBO,

(08:19):
and so I hadn't seen it in a long time.
And it's just like watching it back as in my
at my advanced age. I just it holds up so
well Kiki experiences burnout. I was just like, wow, okay,
like this is they really get into it. Um. I
adore this movie and I can't wait to talk about it. Uh,

(08:44):
what's your history with Kiki Delivery Service not a long one.
I hadn't seen it until about a year ago, not
long after they became all the Muzaki movies became available
on HBO, and this one was at the top of
my list to watch, so I did, and I really
loved it. And there are elements about it that are

(09:08):
so relatable to me as a full adult, such as
the burnout. I'm choking, such as the burnout, such as
there's a line of dialogue where Kiki says something like, yeah,
I used to think flying was fun until I started
doing it for a living, and I was like, oh,

(09:29):
that is a thing that I can relate to. But
also my job is still fun, still fun. But anyway,
Uh yeah, I I really I think this movie has
so much to offer. And I know I sound like
I'm crying right now, but it's just because I'm choking
on my own saliva. I'm having a I'm having a day,

(09:50):
I don't know what my name is, choking, crying, so tired,
you need Ursula to kind of intervene and be like, look,
we're going to go to a cabin for a couple
of days. We're just gonna talk out, like use my bed.
Cottage core elements. Oh my gosh, yeah, it is just
a full cottage core sequence. The sweet like friendship intimacy

(10:14):
of Ursula letting Kiki use her bed. I feel like
that was always my, like my favorite moment in the
movie ever since I was really little, because you're like, WHOA,
a cool girl let you sleep in her bed? And
I still feel the same way. The cool girl vibes
throughout this movie are off the chart. The first which

(10:35):
she runs into you on the way over. I terrified
of her to this day. Her accessory game alone crushes me.
And then to just be so cool as to say,
I can't even listen to music. I'm flying. She's a
light because she's sweet. I just can't with this movie,
she said. And then she's like, I can tell like
love fortunes and we never find out really what that

(10:58):
means or what that entails. And then she's like goodbye forever,
and you're like, yes, yes, What it tells us is
that she knows everything and she's too busy to deal
with us because she's cool. She's cool, she is snooty.
There are a lot of snooty characters. I feel like
snootiness is a motif in this movie. But she's like, yeah,
I'm sure that town seems really big to you, but

(11:20):
to me, it's just whatever. And then she goes down
and then you get like a classic Phil Hartman reaction shot. Yes,
he's just like, well she sucked. Yes, if side I
were a voice like perfection, it is very funny to
be how like like, I don't know, I did a

(11:41):
little bit. I just was like, I'm very fascinated with
how Miyazaki movies were adapted by Disney for distribution and
how there's like there's always like these little changes that
are made. And the Gig character also like they sort
of disneyfied his role in the story as like he
appears as an animal familiar in the way that like

(12:02):
a Disney princess is animal familiar, would appear in like
the dialogue Cadence, Like obviously Gigi was always there for Kiki,
but was like not as sarcastic, not as like like
a lot of the dialogue lines for Gigi changed where
the spirit of the line is the same, but they
sort of like, you know, rewrite it for an American comedian,

(12:24):
is it coded more so? Okay, so coded a little
Salts here, you're getting a little bit of your Iago
from uh, you know, pre in this pre days Iago.
So maybe this is this is the foundation the build.
But I feel like, man, I really love Gigi, and
now I'm trying to imagine I would still I still
want the comedian aspects. I still want like assaulting late

(12:47):
even if they decided to gender flip it back, I
think I would still be looking for a Wanda Psykes
esque like Saltic. And this would have been post yago too,
because this the dub, at least the dub that's on
HBO wasn't made until mind Blown. Yeah. Yeah, so then

(13:09):
it had to be like early two thousands that was
seeing it. It's really wild. Sorry, I'm figuring out the timeline.
Um wait there I found a little passage on gig
just because I I love learning about adaptation. It's fascinating.
Um okay, so this is from Scarlett Journal Wikipedia. Of course,
the depiction of the cat Gigi has changed significantly. In

(13:32):
the Disney version and the Japanese version, Gigi is voiced
by Ray Sakuma, a female actor, while in the English version,
Gigi's voice by Phil Hartman. In Japanese culture, cats are
usually depicted with feminine voices, whereas in American culture their
voices are more gender specific. A number of Hartman's lines
exist where Gig simply says nothing. In the original gis

(13:52):
personality is notably different between the two versions, showing a
more cynical and sarcastic attitude and the Disney English version
as opposed to cautious and conscientious in the original Japanese.
In the original Japanese script, Kiki loses her ability to
communicate with Gigi permanently. I guess the original cut of
this involved the Phil Hartman voice coming back at the end,

(14:14):
oh boo boom, but then they took that out the
original Japanese version, and like I guess, it was supposed
to be a sign of Kiki's maturity that she could
no longer talk to her cat. Excuse me, I think
that it's a mark of maturity for you to talk
to your cat, and your talk your cat to talk back.
So I don't know what that's all about. But I

(14:35):
literally watched this movie with Lee your black cat dead
ringer for Gigi. Not a lot of movies called his attention,
but he was. He was with me the whole time.
It was great. I marked it more as like if
you can. This movie is so grounded in reality. It's
the idea of like magical loss of childhood and this

(14:57):
idea that there's something else to be gained, especially if
it's considered under. This movie very much from the beginning
starts with a thesis statement of like, if you're going
to be a witch, she better be a good witch
and have a good heart. And I think she does
that so much throughout the movie, and eventually it sort
of becomes a it's hard. It's hard to be a

(15:17):
good friend. It it's hard to live up to like
your own ideals and standards, and she struggles with it
a lot. But she also loses part of her childhood
in gaining these responsibilities and these new friends and you know,
this new opportunity in this business. Some part of her
does go away in exchange for that, and I always
sort of view the cat's voice being gone as that exchange.

(15:40):
I think to leave it in is just what a
disservice to the story overall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I
guess that, Um, I don't. I I couldn't find like
if this was just like an organic decision or fair
or war complaints, but they re released the American dub
like a redux of it um with the same voices,
but they took out the last Phil Hartman line so

(16:02):
that the spirit stayed the same as it dead in
the original. And yeah, I agree, I think it's like
it's it makes me a little bit sad, but it's
supposed to. Maturing is sad, like so hard. Yeah, being
a kid is awesome. Also, I'm seeing that there was
another English dub I think released in from Streamline Pictures

(16:27):
Slash to Kuma, but I don't I don't think it
had the same kind of like mainstream availability as the
Disney dub. So it is possible that you heard that one, Joel.
I wonder if that one ever hit the air, because
if I think about it, the first Zaki film I

(16:48):
remember watching was um, a rip of what's the one
with the PI one? And okay, and I watched it
on a PC at my mother's office. Um, and so
that's two thousand. Yes, yes, it was fifth grade. I
was ready to go home and it was amazing. And

(17:09):
then I'm pretty sure not too long after that, Spirited
Away comes out, and then somewhere immediately after that, I
find Hell's Moving Castle and kikiS delivery service. It's all
sort of very jumbled up in those early junior high,
you know, late elementary years, but I definitely remember thinking
like where are the American cartoons with girls like this?

(17:33):
The fact that there were like young girls just being
girls interested in maturing but not being grown ups, you know,
actually addressing the PG thirteam like element of life that
that time period, and being like this, these are people
I can actually relate to, and being sort of blown
away first by them and then obviously by the art.

(17:54):
Oh my god, it's like gorgeous. It's uh yeah, and
I think it's like it is wild to like I
don't know, it wasn't until I was like halfway through
the movie. They'm like, oh yeah, this movie came out
the same year as The Little Mermaid, and the differences
are quite clear. And I love The Little Mermaid, but
you know, like, yeah, I mean you love it because

(18:16):
you get to be dramatical with it. But I love
him Daddy, And it's like a lot of like throwing
your shoe and running, um, which is fun. It's fun
to sort of embrace that, but as a story that
actually speaks to the conditions you're living under. I think
there's there's just no comparison. But I mean, at the
same time, though, the premise of the little like Disney's

(18:39):
a Little Mermaid and Kiki's delivery surface is like pretty
similar in the sense that they're both fish out of water,
striking out, you know, trying to figure a little more
literal than the other. Yeah, right, right, But the execution
is like so different and in like very fascinating ways.
Before we get too deep into the discussion, let's take

(19:00):
a quick break and then we'll come back and recap
the story. And we are back. So here is the
recap of Kiki's delivery service. We meet Kiki, voiced by

(19:22):
Kirsten Dunce in the Disney dub. She is a young
witch I believe years old, who, as per which tradition,
must leave home for a year to begin her training.
And that night is the perfect night for her to
leave because it's both a full moon and there are

(19:45):
clear skies. So Kiki says goodbye to her mom and dad,
she packs up her belongings, she takes her mom's broom,
and she sets off with her talking cat. Gig Again
Boy by Phil Hartman in the Disney dub, very sadly
Phil Hartman's last voice for all before he has no

(20:09):
which we don't have to go there today. This is
a happy episode. I did think it was funny even
when it was little how abrupt, Like the movie just
like starts and Kiki is like, oh, I'm leaving home today.
Like I feel like in a I'm used to in movies,
like when you know kids and parents are separated, there's

(20:30):
this like long like I love you so much bo
and they do, like the family obviously loves each other,
but it's just like k He's like, I'm leaving and
then they're like, I don't know, should it be today?
And she's like yes, And then two hours later they're
like all right, like they respect her decision, and they
are like, well, best of all. Like, I just thought
it was really funny. It was really interesting about the

(20:52):
way that this entire film is that first of all,
kudas to me is Zachie for just being like, no,
I'm gonna set this up like story time, because I
feel like if you got like Looney Tunes beginning or
even a Disney it's like a lot of loud, crashing
music to let you know, funds about to happen, like
strapping kids, like we're about to sling some jokes at you,
and you start completely in silence. And a Miyazaki film,

(21:13):
it's like, here's some bright colors there, Pastel's it's going
to be peaceful and calm, and uh, you're gonna learn
some stuff. And then it's underscored pretty quickly by just wind,
which we know Miyazaki is ossessed with, and you get
this sort of like natural orchestra going, and then it's
just radio waves. And I think so much about being
that age is about being alone and trying to figure

(21:36):
out who you are. You know, you have friends, you
have family, but it's a I mean, at least for me,
I spent a lot of time in my room being like,
who the hell I'm reading a book, I'm watching TV,
I'm looking at magazines, like someone please tell me who
I am? So I start doing this thing um and
for her to be listening to a radio and it
starts off like the spirit of freedom right, which sort

(21:58):
of becomes this banner for the entire higher film of
what does that mean, especially as you mature, If a
child for freedom is just like running around the block
and screaming your head off. But ideally when you're going
out and staking your claim and deciding who you are,
what does that look like? And then on top of that,
it's a clear night, and she's like, oh, I have
a perfect night to leave. And I love the idea
early of bringing superstition into a witch movie in a

(22:21):
casual way that I think a lot of girls do
origin at least I did very much like, oh no,
then we have to act. Now, conditions are perfect, like go,
and it's completely her decision to to start her life.
And I love the way it sort of bowls over
her parents, you know, her father is like how you're
growing up so fast? And then the duality of how

(22:41):
she treats her parents, like with her mother, very strict boundaries,
very much like I'm doing it and you need to
listen to me, and I'm setting the rules. And with
her dad, you know, the first thing she asked is like,
can you pick me up and spin me around? And
I was little, And I think it's such a beautiful
personification of like how she's divided as like to quote
the Great Britney Spears, I'm not a girl, not yet

(23:02):
a woman. She's in between. We're just quoting that the
other day. It is like they set up everything so
effectively and so quickly, and like, I like that you
find out that the mom is like president of Witches
or you like whatever whatever that means. I support it.

(23:22):
That's great, and that yeah, like it seems like her
mom is kind of like the breadwinner, you know. It
seems like a very matriarchal system they've got over there,
and that you see her relationship, like you see three
generations of Witches. And then it's I think Debbie Reynolds
is Grandma Witch, which Debbie Reynolds is canonicallylds the Madame.

(23:49):
Think like, here's a herring pie. She should have been Grandma,
which because then she could have been Grandma, which across
so many different Disney projects. Was that her grandma? Or
was that? I thought it was just like a neighbor
lady who was like, there was a neighbor lady. But
then her dad is like, hey, Mom, I just want
to let you know Kiki's leaving tonight, and there's a

(24:10):
second old lady in the lawn chairs outside right before
I know, we're only one paragraph into the recap. But
I also want to shout out, just like the world building,
and how just like seamless and subtle it is. Where again,
if you're comparing this to like a Disney Renaissance movie,
it would be like once upon a time there was

(24:32):
a family of witches and they started the tradition of
leaving home when you're thirteen years old to go, and
it would just be like this whole story, similar to
how Shrek opens like a storybook, like here's an exposition dump.
But this she's being Shrek critical interesting. So this is
not shreky In in the sense that it just like

(24:54):
drops you in this world and you just like go
along with the world building. But it's very easy to follow,
Like it's just I thought it was handled very in
like a very cool and interesting way. But it is
shreki In in that we love it and it's perfect obviously, yes,
of course, Okay, So she sets off on the broom

(25:16):
with her talking cat Gigi also talking cat shreky In
in the talking donkey talking cat. Yeah, there's a lot
of parallels between Kiki and Shrek. Thank you both have whiches.
Now I see where we're going both which is yes,
oh my gosh, Yeah, it's it's a fantasy paradise that

(25:38):
it's above approach. Both are set in a like very
nondescript European place. There is baking and Shrek, what would
the gingerbread man? And so forth? So yeah, deliveries have
to be made. Delivery deliveries do have to be made.
A rescue takes place, you know, like we could we

(25:59):
could keep going. This is extremely shreky. Movie is actually
very shreky. In yes um okay, So, Kiki is not
very good at flying on a broom, but she heads
south towards the ocean to hopefully settle in a city there.
On the way, she meets another young witch we already

(26:21):
talked about her. She's the very cool, snooty which who
has been developing her fortune telling skills. Kiki, on the
other hand, has not decided what her skill is going
to be yet. It starts raining, so Kiki and Gigi
take cover in a train, which starts moving and takes
her to a coastal city where Kiki decides to settle.

(26:46):
She hopes that witches don't already live in this city,
because it seems like there isn't a need for maybe
more than one or two witches. In each city, but
she learns that no witches live there yet. So Kiki
tries to make a good impression, but she almost causes

(27:06):
a traffic accident when she's flying around on her broom
and the locals are mostly ambivalent toward which is there's
also this cop who's who wants to reprimand her for
this near traffic accident from kiki delivery service. Okay, so

(27:28):
this cop gets distracted when someone in the distance is like, thief,
stop this thief, and the person who created this diversion
turns out to be this boy, Tombo. Tombo thinks Kiki
and her ability to fly are really really cool, but
Kiki thinks Tombo is annoying and rude. I love her

(27:52):
attitude towards time. It's very special. You don't see that
a lot in kids media in a way that's just
very straightforward. Yeah. So, while Kiki is trying to figure
out a place to stay, she encounters a son No,
a bakery owner who needs to return something that a

(28:14):
customer left behind, and Kiki offers to return it for
her on her broom, which she does, and a Sona
is grateful for Kiki's help and she lets Kiki stay
in a spare room in her attic. Another great line
where she brings Kiki to this room that is objectively
quite dirty, and she's like, well, i'd help you clean

(28:35):
it up, but as you can see, i'm greg nant.
So I'm so gregnt. Can have you with greg can't
really do much to help, Gotta go, and then this
place is disgusting yep. Uh. So she moves into the
attic room, and based on her ability to quickly trans

(29:00):
support things to people on her broom, Kiki decides to
start a delivery business. Um she gets settled into her
new place, she bumps into Tombo again, and then Kiki
gets her first customer. A woman wants her to deliver
a birthday gift for her nephew. The gift is a
toy cat that looks a lot like Gigi, and while

(29:23):
making the delivery on her broom, a strong gust of
wind blows Kiki off course and she loses the toy cat.
Did not listen to Geese and felt, para, I know
the right. The Viyazaki wind step is always so fascinating
because you're just like, wow, we're really these are very
specific natural rules that she's ignoring. Uh, that I don't

(29:44):
think completely scanned for me when I was a kid.
And then Phil Hartman cat gig, thinking it phil Harmon cat,
phil Harmon cats, like you should have listened to those geese.
I was like, who, I guess if you were a
witch and you're flying all the time, maybe you would
know to listen to he's I thought that these were
just you know, vibing up there. I don't know what
they were trying to tell her. He translated it perfectly.

(30:08):
He said, there's a big gust of wind coming, and
then they made a shield of themselves to protect her.
And then they were like that wind's gonna blow us,
and She's like what right in the face. I love
that Um is bilingual. He speaks goose, he speaks the
language of all birds. It seems like legend. So she

(30:31):
loses the gift and she has pretend to be the
toy cat until she can find the real one. So
she searches for the toy and finds it in a
house that belongs to an artist, and that's Ursela right.
Also to Ursela's that's a little mermaid synergy taking place.

(30:51):
Whoa yes, true, true, Yeah. The only reason I knew
it was her is because it's hello there we go
get over ginger offalo and she is the cool artist
lady you would want to spend long night talking to
you about what does the meaning of your life mean? Yeah,

(31:14):
that was that was cool casting. I was like, oh,
that that just like fits. That's like her character that
she plays. It's just her cool girl energy. So the
toys damaged its head is starting to fall off, so
Ursula offers to fix it for Kiki if Kiki helps
clean Ursula's house, so she does. Meanwhile, Gig is struggling

(31:39):
to pretend to be a toy, especially because there's a
very big dog in the house. His name is Jeff.
I love Jeff the dog. But Jeff ends up helping
Gigi escape, and he helps Kiki when she returns with
the toy cat. So Jeff is an ally and we

(31:59):
love Jeff. GE's pure astonishment and Jeff, he's a good boy,
totally took me. He'll do it. So it was amazing. Yeah,
there were so many moments in this movie where you
expect things to go south, and I kind of wonder.

(32:20):
I'm like, oh, maybe that's just like how American movies
were conditioning our brains to think things were going to
go because I remember very clearly watching this movie for
the first time, thinking that the older woman, who I
guess is voiced by Debbie Reynolds, was going to shove
Kiki in the oven like I just remember, like a
handsel and Gretel. I didn't think she was a witch

(32:42):
at first, because she's coated in such acting accidentally, because
you don't see her at first, like somebody comes to
the door and greets you, and then she's chilling them
back to the old voice you mean, her lesbian lover,
because those two obviously obviously very death on the nile
of them u um. But then she has that old

(33:07):
school stove where listen, if Handling Girl weren't getting shoved
into like a stove that's set on the floor and
made of like cast iron, they were getting shoved into
one of those brick wall of things. Maybe that's why
I thought it was going to have it, because I
was just like, wait, no, and she was an old
lady who wasn't like inherently her grandmother, so she must
be right. And that's yeah, another way that Western storytelling

(33:30):
that they're like if a woman is older and you
don't know her personally. She's about to kill you and
you're wants to eat you stuck your soul because she's
jealous of your youth. There are no children around her.
Evil Okay. Anyways, no one tries to coca. It's shocking
except for a few gusts of wind. Except the wind,

(33:53):
but the elements. So sometime later, Tombo comes by the
bakery to invite Kiki to a party that night at
the Aviation Club, and she's still not thrilled with him
at first, but she warms up to him and then
really wants to go to this party. But first she
has to make a few deliveries because her business is

(34:16):
starting to take off literally and figuratively. Wow wow, Kiki
is a girl boss. She is yeah. For one of
her deliveries, the pot pie is not ready yet because
the old woman in the credits, I think her like
she's just mad, madam, that's Debbie Reynolds. Um, her oven

(34:41):
isn't working, so Kiki helps her bake the dish and
then helps her around the house. But oh no, Now
Kiki is running late for the party and it starts
raining when she sets off to make the delivery. Also
Debbie Reynolds granddaughter is ungrateful for the pop pie and
Kiki is soaking wet and she's so late for this party,

(35:02):
so she just ends up going home and getting into bed,
which also so relatable, so relatable, and then she gets sish,
why did she just really quickly shout out the pie?
Because I don't know that we talked about this in
our last Miyazaki episode, but the like Miyazaki food scenes
are kind of like the stuff of legend, and that

(35:24):
pie in particular, Um, it's just like so like I
I feel like that I don't know, just like a
little more detail than it needs to be in a
way that is very exciting because there's like a crust
of fish. It's like a pie but there's a fish
on top, and you're just like, I don't know great well,
and then even detailing it with like the highest parts
of the pie got burned a little because it's a

(35:46):
full roaring fire and it's not going to cook evenly,
like the thought process that goes into food, the way
like the loaves of bread. The opening, um, silent husband
is I like to call him, like flips open the
pans and twirl them on his fingers for the cat,
and I just would love to Apparently there isn't mia
Zaki Land in Japan, and I heard the foods okay,

(36:08):
and I would like to go to there and just
eat my way through. I didn't know that existed. God,
that's incredible. Yeah, silent husband is exactly how And then
he says one line at the end and you're and
I just I was like, you can talk. That's not
how I thought he was going to sound. Yeah, I
just did. His voice is so much deeper than I

(36:28):
don't know what I thought he was gonna sound like,
but I was like, whoa okay, okay. So Kiki does
get sick for a few days after flying in the rain,
but then she starts to feel better. She makes a
delivery for someone who turns out to be Tombo, who
shows her his flying machine a k a. A bike
with a propeller on the front, and they get on

(36:50):
it and go to the beach where this blimp ak.
They keep calling it a dirigible. I had never heard
that word before. I'm going to keep calling it a blimp.
But on the way to see the blimp, they veer
off course and his flying bike breaks, but they laugh
about it until Tombo's friends show up and invite them

(37:13):
to tour the blimp, but Kiki doesn't want to go
because she feels like an outsider among them. She feels
that they look at her as if she's kind of
like an odd ball outsider. I like. I like that
they introduce kind of like Chekhov's Hendenburg. So if you
introduce a Handenburg like image, it's got a crash by

(37:37):
the end of the movie. It doesn't have to quite Hindenburg,
but I would say this did like a Diet Hindenburg.
There's definitely a catastrophe involved with pretty scary. I remember
being very scary because you like it almost felt like
a little Titanic. We're like, oh my god, they're gonna
get crushed like it. It's it's very scary. Anyways, check Offshindenburg,

(38:00):
write it down. New merch coming soon. Um. So, when
Kiki goes home after kind of abruptly leaving Tombo and
his friends, she discovers that she can't understand Gigi anymore.
So he just sounds like a cat meowing at her
and not Phil Hartman making you know, sarcastic quips, which

(38:24):
would be a big disappointment. It would be so devastating
if if my cat made slide comments all the time
and then just abruptly didn't, the heartbreak just a third
of my entertainment is gone. I kind of always imagine,
because you know, like if you're like Pet's voice in
your head. Of course, I do always kind of apply

(38:47):
a bit of a Newsy's accent to both of my pets,
and I wonder how much of that is like just
latent Phil Hartman Gigi from my I'm like, oh yeah,
of course, if you have a little black cat is
your animal familiar, it's gonna sound a little bit like
Phil Harp those are I have a giant dog and
she sounds dopey. She has the tuba that follows Jeff around.

(39:11):
I did have a little oh god, I was really
hoping Jeff would come back for more than a second.
But seriously, he made a meal of his time on screen.
It's a joy and a highlight. Okay, so she can't
understand Gigi anymore. Also, Gigi has a cat girlfriend who

(39:36):
again in the original Japanese version of this movie Lesbian Cats,
we've got lesbian old ladies. A lot of queer representation
in this film. So he also discovers she cannot fly
on her broom anymore, and she breaks her broom trying
to see if she can still fly. So she's losing

(39:56):
her witch's powers. She's really depressed. She doesn't want to
talk to Tombo anymore. But then one day, Ursula shows
up to visit Kiki and they take a little like
weekend trip together out in the woods and Kiki confides
in Ursula while she draws Kiki, and she tells Kiki

(40:17):
that the same thing happened to her as an artist.
She felt she couldn't really paint anymore, but she realized
what she needed was some inspiration and she needed to
discover her own unique style. So that scene really hit
for me this time around. I needed it. Then Kiki
returns home and makes another delivery for the Madam, except

(40:42):
it's actually a gift, a cake from her for Kiki,
and she's so touched and she starts crying, and they
are going to celebrate their birthdays together and it's so beautiful,
but meanwhile, oh no, there's a terrible accident with they're like,
oh no, Chekhov's Hindenburg and it's blowing away because of

(41:05):
strong winds, so really the wind is the antagonist of
this movie, and the blimp is taking Tombo along with it,
so Kiki rushes off. She grabs a man's push broom
and is able to fly on it again, but she's
very rusty and wobbly on the broom. The blimp crashes

(41:25):
into a clock tower. Tombo is about to fall off
and die, but Kiki manages to get there in the
nick of time, and she saves Tombo. And everyone is
so proud of Kiki. She's a she's a national hero.
And I don't know about anyone else, but I legitimately
burst into tears, like when she grabs him and then

(41:47):
like lowers him down onto the I was like, oh,
it's beautiful, and it's like it builds a suspense so well,
like you don't know if she I mean you do,
but you do, and then she lowers him so slowly,
and it's so beautiful. Kay, I guess that that is
a that's a little Mermaid parallel where Ariel does save

(42:08):
Prince Eric it um. I think a few points in
that movie, but it's it is such a beautiful conclusion
and then she and then and then you find out
and then I get curious about the timeline of the
movie at the end because it's like she's supposed to
be gone for like a year, right or so, and

(42:29):
then like how long has she been gone? Because at
the end of it's like I was like, Oh, yeah,
I guess maybe it's been like two months. Maybe this
she became a celebrity, like two months into her year,
her semester abroad. That's kind of where I thought the
timeline was. Because so the movie ends with Kiki and
Tombo flying together, Kiki on her broom and Tombo on
his new and improved flying machine, and then we get

(42:50):
the credits, and we get a few we you know,
we check in with different characters, and then there's a
scene at the very end of the of that like
credit sequence where kiki parents receive a letter from her
saying how she loves the city and now she has
all this confidence and she's like doing great. And I'm like, oh, well,
so she's still, you know, abroad and like on her

(43:13):
year abroad basically, So yeah, I think it's only a
few months into her adventures wild. So that's the story.
Let's take a quick break and then we will come
right back to discuss and we are back. We're back

(43:35):
on our brooms, baby, and we're ready to soar into
the discussion. Where to begin? I feel like we've already
It's it's hard to like, um, keep your feelings at
bay when discussing I'm discussing, kikiS um, where shall we go?
Can we talk about how this reflects just so many
points in our lives. We've sort of been talking a

(43:57):
little bit about it, Like for me, is very into
gative of the year between junior high and high school,
Like it sort of felt like that summer of like
who am I going to be in this new school?
And there's gonna be so much less like parental and
individual oversight, and I'll be making a lot more decisions
about like what kind of or is I want to
be a part of and all this stuff. And then
it also sort of reminded me of like when I

(44:20):
moved out of the dorms in college, which for me
was like the second half of freshman year, and I
got my first apartment and I was like, I could
totally have so much money shopping spree. Looks like all
I can eat is pancakes, damn um. And then even
now sort of the aspects of like burnout and definitely

(44:41):
female friendships. At this point in time, my life is
somebody who's like not in a very seriously committed relationships.
My female friendships are like the most grounding, structural feature
of my daily life. And I think she's surrounded by
so many incredible women who see her so authentically. And

(45:01):
I love that this movie sort of embraces all of
those moments and ask you, if you're envisioning yourself as Kiki,
you don't need to change. There's so many times when
this could have flown off into like, uh, makeup montage.
She's practically begging for one the whole movie. She's like,
my shoes aren't right, like these pretty red shoes, maybe
I'll get those. And I my dress it's not right, mom,

(45:24):
Like it's just dark and I would look better. And
Lilac and the woman she lives with, and she's like,
I got back to a party. You don't twear. She's like, well,
that's not really a problem because it looks great and
cool and mysterious and this dope dress you have. Anyone
else would have been like montage girl, let's fix you
so people will like you. And I love the idea
that all these women essentially just encourage her to like

(45:46):
be herself and take her time and get some rest
and all the great advice you get from your girl friends.
And it's so oh man, it's the kind of movie
you instantly want to share with the little girls in
your life. You're like, please watch and consume and like
internalized as quickly as you can. I mean, and like,
this has been on my mind for you, and I
guess I hadn't thought about how Kiki is like such

(46:06):
a unique, shining example of just like the value of
teaching kids in general, like when to say no, but
in particular teaching young girls when to say no because
Kiki is like and and also seeing that not result
in some worst case scenario where Kiki is like she burnt.

(46:27):
Part of the reason she burns herself out is because
she's so she works really hard, Like she is very
very very accommodating to other people in a way that
I feel like girls are often like conditioned to do,
and like she's always doing the most for other people
in a way that is like speaks to how good

(46:48):
her heart is. But when she has to, like when
she hits a wall and she like is completely burned
out and has nothing left to give. No one's set
with her. Everyone's like, yeah, of course, like we appreciated
everything you're doing for us, but like you don't have
like don't hurt yourself, don't kill yourself on behalf of
like practice some self care, like I didn't get back

(47:11):
on your feet. Yeah. Well, and the thing that really
burns her out is the lack of appreciation, right, Like, yes,
it's the rain and it gives her a cold and
all that, but it's your grandmother and I worked really
hard to make sure you could have this thing that
she thought you would love in your against snootiness and
complete rejection of this you know, gift aide with so
much love, Like it's so disheartening to her that she

(47:32):
can't because I feel like before this, Kiki is always
seeing the bright side of things, you know, when they
arrive in the town. Her is like, you know, if
there maybe which is like and there might not be,
we just don't know yet. We have to go ask
some questions. She's like always a glass half full kind
of gal. But everyone's been accommodating and appreciative and supportive

(47:54):
up until that point, even her first customer as a woman,
and she gives her way more money than she's like
I didn't even think a proud of and they're like
a poor girl, Okay, this is what you want to be.
Just overpaid a couple of times and you're like, yes,
people appreciate her work. And then literally like Debbie Reynolds
is like, you know, Kiki's like, you don't have to
pay me if if your pie isn't done, and Debbie

(48:16):
Reynolds is like, no, you came here, you worked, and
it's like, wow, Miyazaki and you know that, like Miyazaki
has been involved in like workers rights and labor rights
throughout his career too, so it feels very like intentional
and yes, yes, yeah, that's something that really struck me
to where like a recurring theme slash motif is this

(48:38):
idea of like Kiki isn't really sure what her work
is worth, and like is part of me was like,
I don't even know if she's being overpaid by these people.
It's probably just that she's been conditioned to like not
know her value, which is another thing that girls are
not ever taught how to negotiate for themselves or like

(48:59):
not taught like how to know the worth of their
labor and skills and stuff like that. Absolutely, and her
mom even makes such a big point of like she
barely knows how to fly, which sort of hit me
on two points is like, one, you did this at
thirteen as well, your daughter is like clearly very capable.
She's like checking the night to make sure you're like,

(49:19):
I mean, thirteen is very young to be like out
on your stars as far as like, but as far
as tradition goes, Just like I think parents often are
like my babies when they were often doing things either
you know, more intense or just about as intense when
they were their kids age, and it wasn't necessarily harmful, um,

(49:39):
but it was also sort of this idea of like
Keys sort of been I think only child syndrome, where
she's just around a lot of adults, so she's very mature,
and she's running around and doing her own thing, and
she hasn't had the time to like learn potions or
learn a trade really so that she's fully prepared for
this journey. And I sort of like that so much
of her action is just omption. I just want to

(50:01):
go to the ocean. Let's just go see what that's like,
we could probably this sound looks good, like the train
dropped me off here, Maybe that'll work, you know, like
I could take the pacifier back, and then doesn't think
about at all making that her job until again, here's
this older woman who's like, well that could be a business,
and you don't have any place to say, like, let
me give you a room, you poor child out on
the street. I love when you go to the hotel,

(50:24):
which again I just think about if I was their
team trying to do it on my own and be like, yeah,
I'm gonna check in. Is your parents around? Like who
are And she's like who's responsible for this child? Which
is also relatable to like as a thirteen year old,
but also just as like a person of any age,
like doing a new thing, going to a new place.
I think there's a lot of like I mean, there's

(50:45):
a lot of metaphors you can map on two Kiki's experience.
Like I was reading a Twitter thread on our Twitter
when we were posting about wanting to cover this movie,
and a listener was like, this movie gave me the
confidence to like go abroad when I was like a
young adult and like live abroad and other people were

(51:08):
commenting things like, oh, like I saw this as a
metaphor for like pursuing art as a career, and like
how people generally respond to that, but like how you
have to, like you know, just kind of keep doing
it and messing up at it until you kind of
finally figure it out and and then just I also

(51:28):
think that similar to Paddington, you can kind of map
like this is similar to an immigrants experience, and there's
all these just like relatable experiences, and yeah, we were
already talking about some of them, but there's also you
rarely see a female character, like a girl of this

(51:48):
age in a movie being allowed to just kind of
fumble through what she's trying to do and like make mistakes,
but like learn and develop her skills and show emotional
vulnerability but also show strength. We've had a very similar
discussion on the Spirited Away episode two. Yeah, because this

(52:10):
is like something that Miazaki is like known for being
really good with, and like I love that it's like she, yeah,
similar to Tahiro Kiki, is not great at everything the
first time she tries it, and you see her like
get better in a way that feels like you're saying
Joel like very very grounded for the fantasy world that

(52:30):
we're in. And I think that also makes her more
like accessible to kids that are watching the movie, because
it's like most kids are not going to be amazing
at something the first time they try it. And like
the way that Kiki, like, I don't know it stood
out to me, especially on this viewing. The way that she,
like her strength is that she approaches the world with

(52:52):
all this positivity and confidence and just like trusts that
she's going to find her place. And it's like when
she feels rejected enough times, that's when she loses herself
for a little bit and loses what makes her so special,
which is that she is able to like just have
this faith in herself that kids are very often able

(53:14):
to have in themselves, and that sometimes, you know, like
at the age she's at, when you're when you're thirteen,
that's when you kind of start to question that and
lose that. And the fact that she questions it and
loses it and then like meets this amazing big sister
who Another really great moment that I remember thinking was
really sweet when I was a kid too, is the

(53:37):
you know, Kiki says I think something that a lot
of thirteen year olds, I mean, regardless of gender say,
where they're like, why would you want to draw? Like,
why would you want to draw me? I'm like, I'm
not pretty, I'm not cute, and because I mean, think
of a time in your life where you feel less
cute than being thirteen years old. Oh my god. And
then her reaction to not be like, oh no, you're beautiful,

(53:59):
to lave laugh, to laugh so fully, and just being
like it's not even a rejection of that idea, it's
a complete understand of course you feel that way, but no,
let me tell you all your face is beautiful. So
it's like that sort of like constant love and positivity
and not over dramatizing a moment, which I think often
happens for like like oh you feel bad, to stop everything.

(54:21):
We need to make sure you feel good about yourself
instead of just sort of embracing that that feeling is
real and that you can sort of stay with that
feeling and still recognize that there is beauty in you
and that you know you look good kid, like you're fine.
I just think there's there's so much um just support
and sort of the ideal support that you would hope

(54:42):
young people would gravitate towards um and none of the
negative to really counterbalance at all. That it's like there's
no need, like we're going to keep it two thousand
percent positive, even if we compare her final heroic scene
to any other movie's heroic moment, which is always I've
mastered my skills and now I can do the job

(55:04):
that needs to be done, which is ludicrous. I mean,
if you talk to anybody working in literally in the
field who's sane and not a complete narcissist, they're like, Oh,
I still have so much to learn. There's I'm constantly
messing it up. I'm constantly questioning whether I'm doing it right.
I have no flicking clue how I'm gonna do this
next step that I need to do. And so to

(55:24):
show her fumble the whole way until the very last second,
like there at the moment where you're like, is he
gonna let this kid just splat on the ground? Is
he gonna die in front of all these people you
don't know, not really, and and for it to be
sort of this great moment and still be so celebrated
and so not you know, I think again. It could
easily be like, oh, she almost dropped him most scary.

(55:45):
Instead I was like, oh my god, you did it,
Thank God. And it's it's just all constant love and support.
And this movie feels like a warm hug. Guys, if
you need one, like you can watch this movie. It's
getting me all teared up just describing, like it's so
thoughtful and like that night with Ursula is so special.
We're like the only Joel. I think you said this earlier,

(56:07):
Like she's begging for a makeover in the way that
you would expect in a movie like about young girls
in general the whole time, and the only thing that
changes about her is like her mindset and that trip,
Like it's so nice, it's perfect. Even the way that
scene is scored, there's an entire crescendo until she turns

(56:29):
off the light, which I've never noticed before until this screening,
and so it's like almost mirrors when she's about to fly.
So when she's about to fly, it's like all the
sound cuts out and then there's that wishing wrestling, and
then she takes off and goose bumps. By the way
in the final scene where she bought like I'm just
doing that, like you're like, oh, God's happening. But in

(56:49):
this scene it's sort of the opposite, where it's all
the magic is in the actual notes of the music,
is not something that has to be concentrated on or
really ex breast. It's just naturally there. And when she
turns off the light, it's even more magical because you know,
if you've been at a sleepover, when the lights go off,
that's in the real conversations. And now we're just two

(57:10):
voices talking in the dark and and like being somehow
even more honest and intimate than we were before. When
the lights are on. It is like such a perfect
encapsulation of just those girlhood sleepovers, and I really love it.
It's so special. Speaking of I mean, we already touched
on this a little bit, but I wanted to do

(57:32):
a deeper dive into Kiki's relationships with other girls and women,
because you have scenes at the beginning where it's clear
that she has a good relationship with her mom. We
see her say goodbye to her like group of female
friends that are like her age. Everybody seems very supportive

(57:54):
of her, you know, they're all wishing her well and
like so excited for her to embark on this journey
than when she gets to the city, she befriends a
son No, she befriends Ursula, the lesbian couple. No woman
betrays her in the hall, like there's no and there's
no real like villain of this movie either, like the Wind. Yeah,

(58:18):
the Wind is the sole villain of the Like there's
the only villain. She's a challenger. It is just something
she has to work with. Yeah, yeah, Like the only
villain is like her, like loss of confidence, and like
the forces that cause her to lose her confidence is
the real enemy. And then so she has all these

(58:41):
like just wonderful, supportive relationships with women, and you know,
they kind of take on different roles where like a
son No kind of becomes sort of like a mother
figure but also a bit of a mentor, like a
business mentor almost. Ursula is sort of like taking on

(59:01):
this big sister also mentorish role where she's like, yeah,
I experienced something similar. You can confide in me. I'm
going to give you some advice on how to get
through this. Um you've got madam and what is her
lover's name? And again, I don't think they're not like
canonically necessarily lovers, but they definitely call her by a name,

(59:24):
Yea Barsa maybe, yes, yes, that is absolutely correct. Are
we supposed to think that Barsa works for her? I
feel like there's like a line of dialogue that indicates that, yeah,
she might be like an employee, but it seems like
they're in love. That's probably what it's supposed to be.
So very unprofessional of Debbie Reynolds to be dating her employee.

(59:45):
It's very definitely now, this is how they could be together. Okay,
she has to pretend to be the employee so they
can live their lesbian lifestyle without judgment. Because it's also like,
I don't know what era we're supposed to be in,
but it seems like, based on the horrors, it might
be like the forties or fifties. I felt like when
I heard aviation Club, I'm like, World War two write

(01:00:09):
aviation Club, that boy and striped hat and propeller hat,
and you know, everything happens in Miyazaki's childhood or present day,
and that's pretty much it. So I feel like I
feel like this is probably just around the time he's
like in his mid teens, which would be a little
bit post World War. In any case, she's got all

(01:00:30):
these just wonderful, supportive relationships with these women. And then
the one person her age who she be friends is Tombo, who,
as we joked about at the very beginning, does do
that like I'm gonna wear you down until you agree
to be my friend. And I think you can kind

(01:00:52):
of assume that he has a crush on her, but
also it might just be like, you know, he thinks
she's really cool because she can fly and he loves
to fly, and maybe he just wants to be friends.
Either way, no romance emerges, which again, if you're comparing this,
and maybe it's not fair to compare like a Studio

(01:01:13):
Ghibli movie to a Disney Renaissance movie, but like, because
Disney Renaissance movies are the animated movies that I was watching.
Is a kid in the US in the nineties, you know,
even though a lot of those movies had a female protagonist,
it was stuff like yeah, but she never had a mom,
She never had any female friends. If she met a boy,

(01:01:37):
he became her boyfriend. If she had an animal sidekick,
the animal sidekick was there to help her get that boyfriend.
You know, stuff like that. I mean, I think that's
a very fair comparison because it's the same years and
and the Disney Renaissance movies were borrowing so heavily from
Miyazaki movies, just way less affect, like borrowing all the
wrong stuff that not borrowing anything thematically that would have

(01:02:00):
been helpful. But like that art is gorgeous. Fuck a
message though, right, we got that unlock. Not interested in
evolving there, but beautiful art. I also think like this
is a this film really sort of challenges the idea
of like I don't even want to say challenges, that's
the wrong wording. This film sort of really highlights like Okay,

(01:02:23):
she wants a boyfriend, but has no idea like what
that actually means. She just sort of sees like there's
that moment where she's in the shop and it's a
slow day and she's bored, and she sees like a
very elegant girl in her very large floppy hat and
her son dress hop on the back of a boy
scooter and she's sitting side saddle. How do they do that?
It's so elegant, and you know, just one hand brace

(01:02:44):
gently on the back and the other around her guy's
waist and they zoom off and it's all very romantic,
and she lets out this sort of like deep sigh
and then when she has a chance to recreate this,
she street doesn't She She's like foxingting side saddle. She's like,
I this is how I ride my broom. I know
how to fly. And she's completely in her element of like, oh,

(01:03:04):
I know how to fly, like I can get really
low into the ground, and I know how to hit
these words and you instead of guiding me, and their
relationships entirely built on their desire to like fly and
be up and move. And it's sort of really interesting too.
It's a sort of challenge idea of like she might
want a boyfriend, but she's not ready for no nothing,
she's thirteen. Like she just gives this opportunity to be friends.

(01:03:27):
And I think, again, what an aspirational thing for young
girls to have is just this idea of like you
can just be friends with the boys, and that's pretty
awesome too, Like, and they can treat you fairly and
respectfully and never try to objectify you or challenge you
or make fun of you, which I think, especially coming
out of like late eighties movies like Porky's and a

(01:03:50):
much better film but with somebody themes fast times Richmond
High this idea of like boys are constantly just laughing
at girls, and I I think the idea that none
of that happens here is it's kind of great. Yeah,
he like appreciates her, like initially for her flying skills,
and then when he gets to know her better, it

(01:04:10):
just seems that he likes her character, her like kindness
and and positivity and stuff like that. And again, like
comparing it to a Disney Renaissance movie, those plots are
usually revolving entirely around the head. A ro romance versus

(01:04:31):
Keys Delivery service is about like a very just like
internal struggle of Kiki, like growing up and coming of
age and learning how to be a person in the world.
And she makes some friendships along the way and those
inform and inspire her. But yeah, it's just like it's

(01:04:53):
not common that you'd have just a story like that
about a girl, like a team girl. Imagine so very cool. Yeah,
it's it's very it's very beautiful. I think I will
say that that that the Tombo stuff, the way it's
developed is a little bit that's the only thing about

(01:05:13):
the movie then, like it's a little clunky. At some
points he is following her around. She does repeatedly say
I don't want to be your friend and it works
out for them, and like, I don't know, it's a
perfect movie. Uh. That did stick out to me for
a second where I'm like, Tombo, take the hint for sure.
She doesn't want to hang let her like if she

(01:05:35):
wants to, if she changes her mind, let her come
to you. She'll let you know. It's like the most
respectful level of because it's so I think, because it's
framed as being very inty, like she's so cool? Are
you mad at me? Still? Why can you explain it
to me? I don't understand what happened? I want to
hang out. Why are you sad? What's going on? Like
it's so much about like what what can I do

(01:05:55):
to make it better? Like I just I just want
to hang out here. And it's never you know, aggressive
or and again never blaming or like she's like she's
so frigid, she won't talk to me. I don't understand her.
It's just constantly going back to you, like you just
tell them what's going on? And I think it's it's
sort of the sweetest way you could be hopelessly I
don't even want to say hopelessly in love, but sort

(01:06:17):
of like attracted to somebody and again not even in
a romantic way, but just attracted to that person. But
who is this person? Please talk to me. I feel
like they could be good friends. It's precious, right. Yeah,
I agree Jamie that like the way it's handled is
a little like especially because like it works out for
them and they become friends, even though he did wear

(01:06:38):
her down and not not really like take her hints
and stuff like that. But Joel, you're also right in
that he's not really displaying aside from like some light stalking. Uh,
he's not. He's not engaging in other toxic behaviors that
also usually get rewarded in movies. So the only thing

(01:06:59):
I wish is that Anna hadn't sent her to his
house that I was. I guess the woman does betray
her for a second, like you don't know what he's like,
You don't know this boy? Is he good? Right, especially
because Kiki's reaction is like so know, how did how
could you do this to me? And it's like, yeah,
like you're throwing Kiki under the bus right now like

(01:07:20):
a lot. That's truly like the only element that felt
late eighties to me. Everything else was like timeless, perfect,
no notes, But that that part, that little element, It's like, oh,
I bet that that if that was written now, would
be done a little differently. The only other example of
something like that for me was um. So there's a

(01:07:42):
pancake motif as well, and this I love a motif,
And there's so many motifs in this movie. One of
them is a pancake motif. Um. It's initially introduced when
she is worried that she is only going to be
able to eat pancakes because that's all she's going to
be able to afford. So it's kind of this like
class thing and she's like getting her business off the

(01:08:03):
ground and like not really earning money yet. But then
later she's a girl building her empire, which like we yeah,
we have joked about that before, and I think there
is like a possible like capitalist read to this, but
I choose to view her enter into Yeah, I just think,

(01:08:24):
you know, she's she's not starting a business so she
can get rich and exploit other people. She's just like
I have a skill that most other people don't see
them to have because most other people are not witches
who can fly on a broom. And I'm going to
use this skill and provide a helpful service in order
to support myself and learn independence. Yeah, I have to

(01:08:44):
live in a capitalist society. And it's not her fault.
She does have to live through it. It's tradition. It's
tradition that you need to start a business on your
thirteenth birthday. Yes, um okay. So she's talking about how
she's only ever going to be able to afford to
eat pancakes, and then at one point she says, if

(01:09:04):
I don't get customers, I'm going to have to eat
pancakes forever, and then I'm going to get fat, fat, fat.
So I didn't appreciate, but but then I'm like, well,
that is a very like thirteen year old girl thing
to say, because she's been conditioned to Yeah, I think
that fatness equals bad. But I think if this movie
were to come out today, a line like that would

(01:09:25):
be eliminated. It's very little stuff like it. It is
kind of wile that the grapes we have are like comparatively.
I mean compared to like Disney movies of the same
era we've covered, where it's like cracking your knuckles being like,
all right, where do we begin, like our sleeves. Yeah.

(01:09:45):
The last kind of thing I wanted to talk about
is we have discussed on the podcast before the representation
of women or girls as witches in media and how
which is are often portrayed as villains. They're scary, evil seductresses,

(01:10:06):
or they are like old body horror hags or some
other version of bad scary witch lady, um, and how
that was born from a historical fear and misunderstanding of
women's sexuality, women's bodies, women existing in the world period.

(01:10:29):
But this movie doesn't do anything like that. It's borrowing
some like iconography from which stuff such as a black
cat and flying on a broom and like potions mixing
that like we see her mom doing at the beginning
and end. But other than that, it's just like she's
a witch and that's actually really cool and um most

(01:10:52):
people are fine with it, except for that one cop.
And I found a great essay by Christine John Baptiste
on bitch media from a couple of years ago that
like does a great job of fully unpacking like Kiki's
place in which culture and also like Japanese magic girl
culture is really good. The passage that stuck out to

(01:11:14):
me goes a little something like this hit it quote.
Like Witchcraft itself, the film centers on the bonds between women,
though the male savior remains a common trope incoming of
age movies. Girl Meets boy, Girl falls in love with boy.
Boy makes girls lives better. It's women whom Kiki can
trust as she learns about herself and rediscovers her strength. Uh.
And it goes on to just kind of unpack how

(01:11:37):
traditionally which is you know, it's a way of of
making women who are empowered and uh sustaining themselves and
often engaging in like sisterhood and solidarity with other women
seem like an evil and terrifying thing that is worthy
of violence. And this is this movie is saying the

(01:11:58):
exact opposite, Like it's strength. Keiki is using her powers
for good while also knowing her own worth. She like
gets self esteem and gives self esteem to the women
around her, and they're all kind of in it together.
There's no and there's no villain in this story. And
she's like she's accepted. It's it's very beautiful. Um, is

(01:12:24):
there anything else? Uh, we want to talk about? Actually,
one thing that I was curious about, because this is
something I noticed a lot in my neighbor Toto and
this movie in Kiki Delivery Service, was that you see
young girls underwear a lot, which in animation is a

(01:12:46):
very deliberate choice. You have to like very deliberately animate
that animation famously not real. Yeah, correct, And I was like, Okay,
is this just sort of like my puritanical American point
of view where I was kind of weirded out by

(01:13:07):
the very frequent shots of young underage girls and seeing
their underwear, or is this maybe a cultural thing that
I'm just not fully aware of, especially because these movies
never like sexualize the characters in any way. There's never
any kind of like predatory camera work happening. But at

(01:13:29):
the same time, I was like, why do we see
their underwear so much? It's a good question. And and
so we consulted our guests on the Spirited Away episode,
Aomi Shionazaki, and I asked if she had any insight
about this, and she sure did, and she sure did,
and we are so grateful and this is what she

(01:13:51):
had to say, Jamie, would you do the honors? Sure, so,
Aaomi says, regarding kikiS delivery service and my neighbor Totoro.
Let's start with this unfortunate panti question. I'm not even
someone I would consider a historian of Japanese animation as
a whole, but since Magical Girls have been around a
long time, and I've watched a lot of shows from
across the decades, I'm unfortunately very familiar with this topic.

(01:14:14):
I do have to admit that, as someone who has
taught very young Japanese children for years, kids who were
addresses often end up showing their panties without realizing it
because their children and they play and they're literally not
thinking about stuff like that yet, and I wouldn't want
them to have to, which obviously true of all kids. However,
there is a reason why we never see panties and
spirited away. After Miyazaki paid attention to media for young girls.

(01:14:37):
Even now, it's an audience whose comics and cartoons are
generally panty free. But also there were major changes made
to regulations in children's media in the nineties, which, from
my understanding, occurred after the Pokemon seizure fiasco. I don't
know what that means either. The Pokemon cartoons back in
the day had so much flash animation that they would

(01:15:00):
occasionally caused kids to have seizures, so they were like
heav we edited before they came over to America. I
don't know much about what happened on the Japanese side,
but I do know they want to started airing over
here and people caught win that that had happened. That
there was a lot of concern among parents about their
kids watching the show. That is why I was thinking,
seizing Pokemon cards happened at my school. If you had

(01:15:24):
Pokemon cards, they were seen. That is how I interpreted
that as well. Okay continuing, I want to look into that.
That's wild um continuing with Ayomi. When it comes to
the concept, we can blame Osamu Tezuka, the god of manga,
who began work in comics and animation from the nineteen fifties.
He began to drop panti shots in Astro Boy for

(01:15:45):
the character of Iran, who was a child and went
really wild with the marvelous Melmo. In the early seventies,
a Magical Girl series about a nine year old girl
who gets magical candies that aged her up or down
and whose panties can be seen just all over the place. Well,
earlier magical girl shows had been for girls and was
thus largely panty free. This was the show focused on

(01:16:06):
teaching sex education to children. For the record, parents complained
about the show, but primarily about the sex education part,
not the panti shot part. Confusing world we live in.
I know, boomer parents really really uh wow? Okay, or

(01:16:26):
I guess this would be the boomer parents parents. Anyways,
Later on in the seventies, we also got the first
fighting magical girl, Cutie Honey, who has rendered nude all
the time despite being seventeen years old, and parents definitely
complained about that nudity fair her series has been a
lot of variations in terms of levels of sexualization depending

(01:16:47):
on the intended audience. As she's been rebooted, panty shots
had become extremely normalized in media not targeted to girls
in Japan, to the point where some viewers might be
numb to it. But it's not just you. I did
some googling in Japanese and found a lot of parents
and or feminist blogs and social media posts asking if
it's okay to still show these two movies to kids,

(01:17:08):
often only realizing the panti shots were weird in the
context of hearing non Japanese insight on the films. If
these movies were made today, I think they'd have either
very few panti shots or none at all, due to
that change in regulations of children's media in the nineties.
Improvement can be seen in Pano to be Sure, where
she is designed with adorable poofy white shorts. Oh yeah

(01:17:28):
she is. Um. The regularity of panti shots and media,
especially media for teen boys and young men, is so
normalized that it's often celebrated or shocking when a show
doesn't cross that line. Luckily, I mostly watched shows for kids,
so I don't have to be subjected to that most
of the time. Um, it goes on, It goes on
for their but it First of all, thank you so

(01:17:49):
much Aumi for that truly contextualization. What a wild history, Uh,
what a world? And also I think, as Aumi points out,
another example of a male tour filmmaker realizing kind of
the implications of what he was doing, or sort of
like connecting some of the dots and and seeing how

(01:18:12):
his work could be interpreted or the similarities of far
more troubling depictions of uh young girls in media and
then course correcting as a result. So another shout out
to Miyazaki for kind of recognizing that. But yeah, that
is something because I grew up watching Toto. That was

(01:18:35):
the only um Miyazaki film that I had exposure to
as a kid, and I remember thinking as a kid like, wow,
there's a lot of underwears in the movie and that
and that's weird because I try to hide my underwear. UM,
So yeah, I was just curious about that. So once again,
thank you Aomi for um providing all of that insight

(01:18:57):
and context, very very helpful. And I want to learn
more about the Pokemon. Thank you Joel for telling us
what the Pokemon seizure scandal is. There's so much, god,
so much, so many, so many bizarre things to know
in this world. So is there anything else said we
wanted to touch on. I think that's it from me.
I'm good. I feel thank you guys for this. I

(01:19:20):
really appreciated taking a this trip back. I watch How's
Moving Castle like three times a year. It's my favorite
Miyazaki film. Unfortunate, I'm so sorry. I want to be
better best. But every time, like look at Howl and
then she's old and she learning life lesses is so great. Um.
I mean we have so many requests for all of

(01:19:41):
these movies. Like when we announced we were doing it's
going to take us years. Yeah, so we're going like
everyone's like, well, why aren't you doing Princess Mononoke? And
I was like, we will just give us we will
get there at a time, please, But if you haven't
already done Howl's I will two thousand percent come back
for House because it is oh so pretty good. Um.

(01:20:03):
And it does have a bad language, but we can
talk about her later. Um. But yes, it's only back
to Kiki and it just what a way to honor
your inner thirteen year old child if you're doing that
kind of work in therapy, like I am. Um, I
was like, look at her, she serves to be loved
and just supported, and look at how great things turned
out when she trust her heart and herself. And oh god,

(01:20:25):
what a beautiful movie it probably it is. I forgot
how episodic it was in It's I love an episodic movie.
I just Kiki. I I can't wait to show Kiki
to my niece when she's also shout out to the
children's book that this was adapted from book by Ko Kadono,

(01:20:52):
which I read that there were pretty significant adaptation changes
that Muzaki made in the script and the Originally the
author was not thrilled with those changes, and the project
almost got shut down because of it. But eventually the
author was like, actually, go go ahead. Um. Some of

(01:21:13):
the more cinematic moments, such as the Hindenburg crashing, was
not in the source material. That felt like a movie momentum.
But the book was also kind of episodic. Uh, And
I think that's probably where that structure in the movie
comes from. But yeah, I just wanted to shout out

(01:21:34):
the source material. I haven't read it. Oh my gosh, guys.
One of the notes from the author is this Kiki
delivery service was inspired by one of my daughter's drawings.
It was a picture of which Blancus guy listening to
a radio musical notes dance around her reminded me photos
of New York from a bird's eye view that I
had seen in Life magazine. They were beautiful images and

(01:21:54):
I felt like there was a story there. Oh God,
I love this so fret, everything about this is so wholesome,
and thank you, thank you for noting that the source
material is by a woman, because I feel like that
very much. I mean always always happy to like give
Miyazaki his flowers for being exceptionally good at taking great

(01:22:18):
care with his characters who are women. But also shout
out to Igo Kadono, and also just a quick shout
out because this is the dub that I and I
think all of us are very emotionally attached to. Kirsten
dunst Man, What what a run, what a career? Holy shit?
The fact that kikiS delivery service the Disney dub is

(01:22:42):
like the fifties coolest thing she's ever done, is just
a testament lover r I p. Phil Hartman, Gene Garthell
Drill I funked it up to and of course Jeff
the Dog Jeff and Jeff the Dog as himself feminist icon.
Jeff the Dog does this movie past the Becco test? Yes,

(01:23:05):
it does, almost constantly mentioned from scene one your perfection,
and that brings us to our nipple scales zero to
five nipples based on how the movie fares. Examining it
through an intersectional feminist lens. I'm gonna go like four
and a half, maybe four point seven five. Even the

(01:23:29):
only thing I'm really docking it for is how the
Tombo character does that I'm gonna wear you down and
I'm gonna not respect to your boundaries, and that's not
really interrogated in any meaningful way, and it ends up
working out for everybody because they become friends. And that

(01:23:49):
behavior should not be encouraged or portrayed in such a
way that it yields good results or at least without
a significant like having to reckon with that behavior, because
I'm all for it, Like I think it actually could
be really valuable for boys watching movies to see that
behavior and then see of like, oh, I can't do that,

(01:24:10):
and I will not be rewarded with friendship if I
do that, And like watching a character learned that could
have been it just it feels like the only missed
opportunity of the movie because it does take her a while,
like she's like, oh, you're rude and you didn't introduce
yourself and you don't even know my name, and you know,
like she's not receptive to it for a long time.
But I wish there had just been more of a

(01:24:30):
clear when she does switch, and like she gets excited
to go to the party after he invites her. I
don't really know why, what inspired, Like what's the catalyst
for So I wish, yeah, he had been like, I'm
sorry for stalking you. I won't do it again. Here's
an invitation to my party. Something like that would have
worked a little bit better for me. But um, otherwise, like,

(01:24:53):
there's just so much to love about this movie. There's
so much that it's doing well that media that's like
appropriate for children, like a you know, kids and family
movie that especially in mainstream American cinema, was not doing
at all. So I love the relationships between female characters

(01:25:15):
in this movie. I love that it's an exploration of
a girl who's figuring things out and exploring what she
likes and what she wants to do, and what her
skills are, and who she is and what type of
person she wants to be and how the world and
you know, like external factors and other people that you

(01:25:37):
encounter are going to maybe put a damper on your
attitude sometimes, but like learning how to deal with that
and overcome those obstacles and just like the whole character
arc and just like exploration of her character that happens
in the movie is just like so wonderful. We're in

(01:25:59):
desperate need of more of those types of stories and
characters still to this day. Four and three quarters nipples
one Takiki, one to a son, No one to Ursula,
one to the lesbian couple, and my three quarters nipples.

(01:26:19):
I don't know if I should do Gigi or Jeff
the dog because I know so much. Add silent husband
and they each get a part of the quarter. Okay,
true look and then and then you know Greg at
the end, Greg is there at the end. There is
a Greg born from the Greg Nancy and we have

(01:26:41):
to acknowledge that young Greg cousin Greg Um. Anyways, I'm
going to meet you there at four point seven five.
I do think the tambo Uh story was a missed
opportunity to completely subvert literally everything else going on in
children's media at that time, at least in the West.

(01:27:02):
And I do I'm very into right now learning about
the Disney Studio Jeebli relationship and how it seems it
also seems like Studio Ghibli movies had a huge impact
on how Disney animated movies look but how Pixar animated
movies are written with you know, point on like a

(01:27:24):
strong emotional stories and like subverting what you're used to seeing,
and just I just think that that interaction between the two, um,
the two studios just really fascinating and speaks to Studio
Ghimbili so much, because it's like Yazaki's movies are so
good that they made Western movies progressively better over time
because the bar was simply so high come on icon

(01:27:47):
on influencer, influencer, and that like Miyazaki was inspired by
Disney originally, so it's like this weird like back and
forth relationship. For sure, you know, not to hand it
to men, but it's just interesting. Um Kiki is just
I loved her when as a kid. I love her now.

(01:28:09):
I think it's like the law. The more time that passes,
the more I'm astounded that there's a story about a
young girl learning her own worth and like not you know,
learning things over time and like discovering what makes her
special even if she her skills are not honed yet
she's a kid like of course, and finding these supportive

(01:28:32):
figures that are rooting for her that she can be
vulnerable and emotionally honest with and even just like simple
writing choices. I don't know if this is the writer
of the original book or if this is a Miyazaki choice.
Don't know, but um, but just the fact that I
feel like a lesser movie would have Kiki rediscover her
confidence through Tombo. But it's Ursula. This character who was

(01:28:54):
in the movie for like three minutes comes back, and
it has this incredible arc and teaches Kiki awesome big
sister stuff. Another Titanic parallel is Ursula draws not like
one of her friends. No no, no, no no, but

(01:29:15):
it would have caught this compares. It's not any romantic thing,
but a sort of serve the same purpose of being
like you were, independently of everything else going on, beautiful
and yourself and I care about that individual. Yeah, in
that moment, they were both completely at ease and uniquely seen. Yes,

(01:29:37):
there's no denying Okay, the parallels, they're the Titanic, the
Shrek parallels, I mean, the Shreky in nature. I mean,
there's no denying it. Um. Yeah, I just it's it's
an incredible movie, and I am excited to watch it
more frequently now because now it's like, I don't know
as an adult that makes stuff for a living. That

(01:29:58):
scene with Ursula, I'm like, gotta return to that more often.
I think to the woods, it's really good way to Joel,
what say you? Wait, I gotta give my nipples along.
I'm sorry, yeah, sorry, sorry, s all right. I'm given
one to Ursula. I'm getting too Tiki Ki giving one

(01:30:20):
to Gigi, the Japanese Gigi, the girl Gigi. How many?
And I'll give the remaining point seven five to fill
Heartman Gigi because I appreciate both of them, and I
think that full Heartman Gigi is um an excellent ally
and an Yago style hilarious animal sidekick. Yes, Joel, what

(01:30:45):
to say? Um? I agree with you guys entirely. I
can't go above or below this ratings for the obvious
reasons already stated. Um, I do wish um Tombo, which
now that I'm saying it is too close to Sambo,
so I would chee into that name. And I feel
like the reason Keiki accepts his invitation to the party

(01:31:06):
is just She's been accepted by so many adults and
has his career. This is her first opportunity to like
hang out with kids her own age, and I sort
of wish that had been hit harder. Who else is
going to be there? Is that mean girl who doesn't
like her grandma going to be there? Because I could
skip that. Um Also, um, the car they drove around
in would terrify me too. She was very right to

(01:31:26):
be afraid of a car filled with mad children with
the word monkeys scribbled on the side. I don't know
what you're getting into, but nothing good happens in that car.
I promise you not a seatbelt in sight. Um Ursula
obviously gets one. Assano totally gets one. I'm going to
give one to her mother because he has such a
beautiful line, which sort of see her trying to not

(01:31:46):
even though she's not like a bad kid. She's not
trying to contradict her mother, but she is trying to
create space that's just her own the whole time she's
around her mom. And there's this like iconic moment for
me anyway, where she gets away from her mother and
she's like, my mom has been teaching me to fly
since I was a baby. She taught me to never
be afraid. And I was like, moms are the best.

(01:32:06):
They're just the best. Like there's so much love and
respect in that line that she doesn't get to necessarily
show her mother when she's around her, because you don't
when you're thirteen. Um, and I thought that was such
a lovely tribute to the woman who sort of shaped
her before we get to meet her. So one goes
to mom, Um, I'm gonna give one just to Debbie

(01:32:28):
Reynolds for being Wie Reynolds. Um. Yeah, and then one
of the dog and wanted the cat because obviously they
have supported and uplifted this story and you know, way
to hold it down for the kids when the parents
are distracted, really appreciate making sure everything goes smoothly when
adults are doing adult things. Shout out to pets, pet,

(01:32:49):
it's incredible. And then I that when when you said
the thing about her her mom, it is like fascinating.
In the Miyazaki movies we've covered so far, so Kiki's
in Spirited Away, theyre is like this interesting needle he
seems to thread with his characters where it's never like
a reject tradition, embrace modernity or reject modernity, embrace tradition.

(01:33:12):
It's always like embrace a little bit of both. And
like even in Kiki's outfit where like she has the
bow as hers and that's her like modern girl thing,
but she's wearing the traditional dress and like sticks by
it even when she's like teased for it. And I
like that kind of thematic blend of like there's always
some old and some new, and his character is like

(01:33:34):
see the value in tradition, but also like leave the
ship they don't like behind and it's a it's a
good way to live your life. Well, and that's Kiki's
delivery service. Yes it is, Joel. Thank you so much
for joining us. This has been an absolute delight. Thank
you guys so much for having me. I need and
seriously come back for house moving castle. Where can people

(01:33:57):
follow you on social media? Check out your stuff, support
your stuff. You guys can find me all over the
internet at guama Nique. That's j O E L L
E m O n I Q you E please please
please go check out my new podcast. It's called Comic
Con Meta Pod. There are no dashes in there, don't
worry about it. Comic Con Meta Pod for separate words. Um.

(01:34:20):
I'm really excited about it. We have some great interviews
for you. We just did the most chaotic interview of
my life with Seth Green and Donald phase on. Um
it's I think we're gonna release it, uh this coming Wednesday.
Whatever that is to talk about being two of the
members of jour from Joe and Putat, we don't even
get to do. They're supposed to come on for fifteen minutes,

(01:34:42):
and they stay for an hour and halfway through there
just talking to each other, and we were like, what
the tape roll? And it was so much of Seth
being like here, like Donald will start talking in a
negative tone about himself, stuff to be like, don't you dare,
don't you do it? He's like, you're really out here
working and trying. The are such good buddies in real life.
We tried to make them debate, but they had all

(01:35:03):
of the same feelings about everything, and so the debate
totally glad. It's very chaotic but so much fun. And
we had Um, John Carlo is supposed to go on,
who is as kind and warm as you'd want him
to be the absolute opposite of Gusts his character I'm
breaking bad um not all a bad guy, totally like

(01:35:24):
good human from the like twenty minutes that we got
to interact with him to the point where we were
crying over fandom, which if you followed me on any
of my other shows, you know, like fandom is everything.
I love fans, um not the toxic kind, but the
kind that are just really loving their content and get
into theories and you know, media has the power to
change lives, as you guys so know. And to see

(01:35:47):
somebody who you know makes it valuing their fans and
these very precious interactions, you know, and then to the
point where he is actually shedding tears, I mean transformational.
We felt so much lighter and we were like just
in disbelief. My co host Hector and I were just like,
I can't believe this happened. It's the most like just uplifting,

(01:36:08):
positive interview we've had in so long. Um So, there's
a lot of great stuff out there, and if you
know anything about Hector, he's just wonderful, brilliant, treasure, adorable human.
Um So, I hope you guys will calm check it out.
It's available wherever you get podcast, comic con, metapod, hell, yes,
check it out. You can check us out on Instagram

(01:36:30):
and Twitter at Bechtel Cast. You can check out our
Patreon a k a Matreon at patreon dot com slash
Bechtel Cast, where you get to bonus episodes every month
and access to the entire back catalog of bonuses, of
which there are over one hundred. Can you believe it?

(01:36:51):
The passage of time is wild? Like that? Wow? Wow? Yeah?
This this month, the month of May, were doing Face
Off and Top Gun. So if you want a very
different vibe, head over there, because oh guys, it is
very follow up chaos. I want to be grapple with

(01:37:13):
the fact that I think Face Off is an amazing movie,
so good. No shame they took the face all the
way off when they shocked and put it on to
someone else the amount. I just wasn't expecting to see
the faces off quite so much, and I was like,
so as a big body horror fan, oh, I love
when those faces are not on. Um anyways, head over

(01:37:35):
there for that. You can check out our merch at
t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast, follow us
on Twitter Instagram at Bechtel Cast and uh, what do
you say, gang, why don't we get on our brooms
and brooms and zoom to kick off with zoom on
those brooms

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Kiki's Delivery Service with Joelle Monique