Lilo and Stitch with Lily Hi'ilani Okimura

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechde cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
best start changing it with the Bechdel cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Ra rah rah raha. I'm Stitch. By the way, that
was me Stitch.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh okay. I knew it was gonna happen. I was like,
where's where are they going with this one? I feel
like everyone has m not to I guess I'm trying
to think of like impressions that middle schoolers liked doing
that swept the nation, and I feel like I feel
like the Stitch impression was a real inflection point for

(00:41):
some annoying twelve year olds.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I think they really were like, here's my moment to shine.
I'm gonna find someone I have a crush on and
go hi, just and I'll do that for a year
and then surely it'll work and they'll fall in love
with me. Oh baby, it's I mean, it's better. There's
there's certainly worse middle schooler impressions that have swept the nation.

(01:06):
I was in middle school when Borat came out. I
was just gonna say, Bora, that was that was that
was a difficult year and where was the what I mean?
It was like hard enough being in the eighth grade.
And then also everyone's going to do a Borat impression.
It's too much. Yeah nothing, I would take stitch At
any day. Yeah, Stitch is okay. Stitch rocks well, he

(01:29):
really does. I kept laughing when I don't know why.
I was cackling. I feel like I am running a fever,
so at this could factory into any opinion I'm about
to share. But every time he rolled up into a
ball and rolled away, I was cackling. It's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
There's a scene.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Why is that the funniest joke in any movie I've
ever seen? It's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
There's a scene where and it's just kind of like
a throwaway moment. It has nothing to do with anything, really,
it's just to show that he's a rambunctious little guy.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
He's a little stinker. I mean, he's kind of like
the littlest stinkerst It's true.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
But there's a scene where he starts blending something in
a blender and then the lid flies off and it
all shoots into his face. And it's I don't know why,
but the funniest thing I've ever seen. I'm like, this
is comedy genius. Like we should all just retire because
like we're never going to top this hilarious physical gag.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
And then the Minions came along. Oh wow, my god,
progresses yet again.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
I think that was more around my time, where like
a lot of the middle school kids would try to
impersonate minions Bello for example.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Wow, that actually must have been a nightmare. That must
have sucked.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
I used to like them, and then I started hating
them after like one everyone tried to impersonate them. They
also made like twenty more Minion movies and I'm like, okay,
this is there's a lot. This is too much.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
I can't get enough. But I don't want a middle
schooler doing an impression at any point in time. It
will sour I feel like that'll sour you on almost anything,
being in middle school, when someone's doing an impression aggressively. Yeah, well,
welcome to the back of cast.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah that was I think our longest tie ride before
we actually introduced the show.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
It's a rich text, Kate. I know. My name is
Jamie Loft.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
My name is Caitlin Durante, And this is our show
where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point to
initiate a much larger conversation. But Jamie, what is the
Bechdel test? Tell me, I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
I'll tell you, Caitlyn Durante, Here's what it is. It's
a media metric created my queer cartoon is Alison Bechdel
in her comic collection called Takes to Watch out For.
Originally made as a sort of one off joke in
a strip, but has since been kind of used as
a media metric that we use. There's a lot of
versions of it. The one we use is this version

(04:00):
of the task requires that there be two characters of
a marginalized gender with names who speak to each other
about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue.
And I do feel like Stitch is male coded that
this includes Stitch. Yes, and it has to be an
impactful I mean not that this movie has an issue
with the Bechdel test. We're not going to have to

(04:22):
really split hairs, fortunately, but yeah, and it should be
an impactful sort of exchange. Yeah, that's what it is.
Do you remember now?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yes, thank you so much for the reminder. I really
need it.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
You're so welcome. We say it every single week for
seven years, but it's like someday it's really going to
like take for both of us.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, one of these days, I can feel it. Anyway,
this is our Lilo and Stitch episode, and we.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Have highly demanded, highly requested Yes.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
And we have a highly requested guest as well. She
is an actress. She's about to graduate with an MFA
and Hawaiian theater. So I'm not the only master's degree
hafer in the room.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Okay, feeling like shit.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
I would never mention my masters though, So it's fine.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
She's an aspiring educator and teacher. You've seen her on TikTok.
It's Lily he Elani Okima.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Aloha, my cow cool. Thank you for having me, welcome,
Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
We're excited to have you.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I'm excited to be on here.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I wasn't expecting us to get to the minions so quickly,
but now it just feels like we're old friends.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yes, indeed, So, Lily, tell us about your relationship your
history with Leelo and Stitch.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
Oh, well, I've been watching this film since I was
in diapers. I well, because it takes place in Kawai
in you know, CAPI. I know it's a very beloved
popular film here amongst not only like native Hawaiians, but
just like you know, local residents here as well. Yeah.

(05:57):
I've been watching this film since I was a kid.
I loved it, and I just kind of really appreciate, like,
you know, the representation of my culture and my people,
even though I'm not from Kawai. I remember, like there
was a Lilo and Stitch episode because they had a
series on Disney Channel and Nanny was on Oahu and

(06:18):
I saw in the background like Leahi or like Diamond
Head and some other landscapes like that I could recognize,
and I was like, oh my god, that's my home,
and it was just really exciting.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
So cool.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, and just you know, seeing the hula and hearing
Hawaiian language and yeah, just all of that. It's a
very beloved film here. A lot of people love it.
I still see like kids singing the songs and you know,
dancing the hula and whatnot. I'm in I'm actually a

(06:50):
hula dancer myself, I've been dancing for that long. But
my umuhula, my hula teacher knows the hula teacher that
was hired to do the songs in the Yeah, so
kum Mark Klimalu, He's so known Kumahula in Hawaii, but
I think right now his helu is in California, so yeah,
he mostly teaches there. But yeah, my kuma Hula knows him.

(07:13):
And it's a small community.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
So awesome.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
That's what I loved. I'm excited to talk about that
later in the episode of just like how the collaboration
happened between him and Alan silvest It was so interesting. Yeah,
oh that's so amazing, Jamie.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
What's your history with the movie?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
I was, I mean it was I think it was
in like third grade when this movie came out, and
so I was like the target audience, and I remember
seeing this movie and going like just going ape shit
for this movie. I loved it so much. It was
one of my favorites. It felt like I'm trying to remember.
I think that like at the time, what I liked

(07:51):
about it more than I mean I was, you know eight,
I liked all Disney movies.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
But same.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
It was a shrewd media critic at the time. I
was like ti pe pe poo poo. I just remember
connecting really strongly with Leelo as a kid because we
were supposed to be about the same age, and she
was just like a weird kid and it was so
cool saying I mean, I feel like a lot of
you know, like young Disney characters are coded as misfits,

(08:23):
but with Leelo, it's like she's like, she's got the goods.
She's got, she's got a friend, she knows a fish
who controls the weather. Like she just like she's got.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
A doll that she was like, Oh, the head's too big,
so I pretended like a bug lady eggs in its ears.
That's so funny.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
I love I Yeah, I really loved Leelo because it
was like I feel like sometimes you're told like, even
with like earlier Disney movies, you're like this girl. I mean,
I feel like, actually, Belle is a good example where
they're like she's so weird she can read, and you're like, well,
you know, maybe historically that was weird, but it's not
for a contemporary audience. You're like, well, I don't know,

(09:02):
it just seems kind of like a hot, regular person,
and it's like, I mean, I loved that movie too,
but it was like there, you know, she didn't have
the goods to back it up. She didn't know anyone
who controlled the weather. I know. I just I loved
Leela's so much. I loved this movie. And then as
I because I rewatched this movie, I think maybe like
once a year, you know, as I got older, it

(09:23):
was like, oh, Nanny is such an incredible character, and yeah,
I'm really excited to talk about it. It was definitely,
I mean, I grew up in Massachusetts. It was definitely,
I think, my first meaningful exposure to Hawaiian culture of
any kind. And I'm excited to talk about how well

(09:43):
it holds up. I guess, but yeah, I'm I'm a fan.
Nice Caitlin, Wan's your history with this movie.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
I had only seen this movie once before prior to
prepping for this episode. I know what. It came out
in two thousand and two. I was in high school
and I thought I was too cool for Disney movies.
I felt I had aged out of Disney animated movies
around probably like ninety seven. Titanic came out and I

(10:11):
was like, I'm an adult now, Boots. I wasn't even
born then, oh brag welp, Well, I was a full grown,
twelve year old adult in nineteen ninety seven because I
had seen the movie Titanic and it was really coming

(10:31):
of age moment for me. And so I saw those
later Disney movies from the late nineties and early two thousands,
but I just didn't gravitate toward them the way I
did for like the earlier Disney Renaissance movies of like
the late eighties and earlier nineties. So yeah, i'd only
seen Leelo and Stitch once and I remember liking it,

(10:53):
but I just I don't know, I never revisited it.
But it's another one of those movies that I wish
I had because I was like sleeping on it this
whole time. This movie's so funny, it's so heartwarming, it's
so endearing, Like it's just it's really lovely. And yeah,
I feel like I missed out on two decades worth
of Lelo and.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Watching this movie delight. If I was not touring right now,
I would have my Stitch T shirt on Wow, which
is a hand me down from my younger brother who
is also a big Leelan Stitch fan, and we also
watched We also watched the animated series on the Disney Channel.
What a moment where it's like you could just I mean,

(11:35):
there was a million. There was like a bunch of
directive videos. I remember watching Stitch, Leelo and Stitch two.
Stitch has a glitch. I don't remember one thing that
happens in it, but it happened.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
That one was sad. Oh no, even the first one.
The first one was sad too. I forgot how sad
these films are.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
There were cry moments for sure. Yeah. And then there's
also Leelo Sorry Leroy and Stitch.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Oh, I didn't see that one.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
And then there's something called Stitch the Movie, So Stitch
gets his own spinoff.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
I guess there's also an anime version.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, oh no, kidding with it with no Lelo.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
Yeah, they have it take place in Okinawa, so instead
of it lee Lo. I don't know where her name is,
but yeah, it takes place in Okinawa.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Got it.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
The history, the history of this movie is fascinating. There
was a recent YouTube video that came out from a
YouTube where I like, I don't know what her real
name is, but her user name is Modern Girls, and
I think it was in light of the all the
casting announcements for the live action movie, which I would
also love to talk about. But she sort of did

(12:36):
sort of a history of the Lulu and Stitch franchise,
and it I didn't realize because I think I aged
out of it somewhere in the middle. But as you
go on, they slowly phase out Lilo to the point
by the time you get to Lee Roy and Stitch
you're just like worked as I don't know, she slowly
kind of moved out of the franchise, which sucks because

(12:57):
she's like, how.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
The minions are taking over and those three orphan girls.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
I mean no offense to the three orphan girls, but
it's like they're no Lilo. They're trying to do what
Leelo is doing, but they're not they're not really doing
it anyways.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Well, shall we get into the recap and go from there?

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Actually, let's take a quick break and then we'll do
that recap. We'll be right back, Okay, So Lelo and
Stitch we open on planet Touro at the Galactic Federation headquarters,

(13:38):
where an alien scientist, doctor Jumba is on trial for
illegal genetic experiments. You can really not remember. This is
how this movie opens.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
The first ten minutes of this movie, I totally blacked out.
It's fun, but you're like, it is what. I also
just like there's all these little things in these movies,
or at this movie in particular, where it's like, oh,
whoever wrote this movie clearly grew up during the Cold
War because the alien is Russian coded.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, and oh that was German first. I get those
accents mixed up.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
It's kind of vague, but it's yeah, some Eastern European,
vaguely Eastern European.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah. Yeah, I was like, wow, even in Disney Alien Land,
we're not over the Cold War. Cool. There's also that
where did did either of you read about like the
nine to eleven shift that happened because of this movie? Ye?

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yes, that was They had to completely change a scene,
which also makes sense because like even in the sorry spoiler,
but like in the film, Lelo even said like, there's
no big cities there, so why would you animate a
big city on k Like it would make sense on
OHU because we have the big cities here, but Qua
is a little bit more like smaller town. So I'm

(14:56):
glad that they like changed it, but also I wasn't aware, Like, yeah,
I think if you were to animate like an airplane
flying through buildings, especially after nine to eleven recently happened,
I think it's gonna like kind of shock people in
the wrong way, poor taste. But I feel like I
remember watching that when I was a kid at one point.

(15:16):
Maybe I had some like special DBD that showed it.
I don't know, but maybe like deleted see or like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
The history of nine to eleven, I mean, well, we're
not going to get into the history of nine eleven,
but like nine to eleven movie facts are always fascinating
to me because it's like the change in Lilo and Stitch.
The fact that during the movie The Master of Disguise,
they were shooting the turtle turtle scene on nine to
eleven and then they took a ten minute break and

(15:45):
then resumed shooting the turtle turtle scene. And the fact
that cartoons are allowed to hijack commercial planes again because
that happens in Minion's two Rise of Grew. They they
don't hit anything, it's a safe flight, but the Minion
should not be flying the plane.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
No, I'm just I'm laughing at how often we've brought
up the Minions. Sorry, sorry, twenty minutes in.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Okay, okay, So they're at the Galactic Federation.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, So this doctor Jumba has created
a new species, this little six legged blue guy who
we will come to know as Stitch eventually. He is fireproof, bulletproof,
He has super strength and the brain of a supercomputer,
and his only instinct is to destroy everything it touches. Also,

(16:39):
this creature is voiced by Chris Standers, who co wrote
and co directed the movie along with Dean deploy If
you're wondering if those are two white guys, yes, they
sure are.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
As with every Disney movie about in non white culture,
it is inexplicably directed by two white guys. Last minut
I promise.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
I'll allow it.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
The director of Minions also does all of the voices
of the Minions. Interesting para. Right, all right, that's that
would be the end of my contributions, Mini and wise.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yes, yes, okay. So the Grand Councilwoman of the Galactic
Federation has Doctor Jumba arrested, and she arranges for the
creature to be banished to a desert asteroid far off
in outer space. But before this can happen, the creature
hijacks the ship, escapes and crash lands on Earth, specifically Hawaii.

(17:40):
The Grand Councilwoman is trying to figure out how to
extract the creature from Earth and bring it back to
planet Touro, and there are a lot of fun jokes
about how humans are weak and fragile and not very smart,
and how these aliens are using Earth to rebuild the
mosquito population. He's so funny. The Grand Councilwoman sends doctor

(18:05):
Jumba to extract the creature, saying that if he's successful,
he can have his freedom back. And she also sends
along this guy Pleakly, the resident expert on all things
Planet Earth, to accompany doctor Jumba. He's such an icon,
truly very funny. Voiced by Kevin McDonald.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Kids in the Hall Canadian legend.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, cut to Hawaii, where we meet Lilo voiced by
Davy Chase, a young girl who is late for a
dance rehearsal because she was feeding Pudge the fish a
peanut butter sandwich. She has a very active imagination and
she's a bit of a misfit among the other girls.

(18:52):
We then meet Lelo's older sister, Nanny, who I think
is around like eighteen nineteen twenty.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah, he's supposed to be like late teens early twenties.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Voiced by TiO Carrera. Leelo is in a bad mood
and has locked Nanny out of their house right when
a social worker named mister Bubbles voiced by Ving Raims doing.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Like a pulp fiction bit question Mark, Yeah, like doing
his character from pulp Fit.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
He looks more like secret service than a social worker.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
In my head, that like had some sort of meaningful
like that came all the way. I guess it does
come all the way around. But I'm just like why.
I mean, it's a cartoon for children, is the answer.
I'm like, why is this man wearing a suit like
a fucking tuxedo to be a social worker? And why
does he only and the least. I mean, it's like
and it's so unrealistic that he, as a social worker,

(19:49):
would only have one case that he's working on. Social
workers are famously overworked, but he is seemingly I mean,
we'll talk about this later, but like of how this
he sort of deals with portraying social work and the
government's attitude towards social work. But he seemingly just like
kind of stalking Nanni, waiting for something to go wrong,

(20:11):
as opposed to offering any sort of meaningful support. And
it's like, well, clearly you have the time to be helpful,
but instead you're just sort of maliciously following this nineteen
year old who is doing everything she can around good
use of government funds.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Love that, right, Yeah, So mister Bubbles shows up to
observe them. Nanni is Leelo's guardian after their parents died
in a car accident, and she's like Lelo's sole caretaker.
Mister Bubbles is not impressed with Nannie's parenting and basically says,
you have three days to show me that you're a

(20:50):
fit guardian, and then he leaves. Nanni and Lelo argue.
Nanni is upset with Lelo for misbehaving and making her
look bad in front of mister Bubbles, is upset that.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
No one wants to look bad in front of ving
Raim's I understand.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Leelo is upset that people treat her differently and don't
want to be her friend. But that night the sisters
make up and then something falls out of the sky
and lands near their house. Lelo thinks it's a shooting star,
so she makes a wish that she will finally make
a friend an angel.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Lapping moniacally.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right, because the thing that fell out of the sky
was stitches spaceship, and he's immediately captured and winds up
in the pound or like a like a pet adoption
place where Lilo and Nanny are there to adopt a dog, because.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, because Nanni overheard Lilo really wonding a friend, wanting
a friend, and better friend, I'll get you a dog friend,
a radioactive dog.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yes, So Stitch makes himself look more like a dog
so that Lelo will adopt him, and Lilo loves him,
and she names him Stitch.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
I love that she gives no explanation. I'm just like, yeah,
his name is clearly a stitch. She was so right
to say that.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
I figured it must have been something from maybe like
something relating to her parents, because when the like pet
adoption lady is like that's not a name, Nanny goes
like shut the fuck up, like in Iceland. So I
figured it must have some special significance to Lilo. Based

(22:44):
on Nanny's reaction, true.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
Also, kids just like name random things. I've taught kids,
and I actually did like a little vet school lesson
and they all had like little stuff dogs and I
was like, okay, pick out whatever names. And they came
up with the weirdest names ever. And of course I'm
not gonna be like, those are not real names. I'm like, yeah, sure,
just write it down. And they're like, how do you

(23:06):
spell it? I'm like, I don't know, it's your.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Name, made it up.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Guess that's so fuzz.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
But Stitch is a really good, like symbolic name of
like tying the ohana together exactly. Whoa.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
I didn't even think of that. I was just like, wow, yes,
he's so Stitch. Wow, Yeah that's true.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
It's so deep. Okay, so Lilo adopts Stitch, but oh no,
Doctor Jumba and Pleakly have arrived on Earth and are
tracking Stitch. They're also trying their best to blend in.
It's hilarious. Meanwhile, Lilo and Stitch are hanging out. They're
getting to know each other, but Stitch is very badly behaved.

(23:45):
He's frustrated that he's stuck on this island, and he
keeps trying to find his way back into outer space.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Well, because he's using he's essentially using Lilo as a
meat shield when they first meet, because they can't the
aliens can't capture him when he is near lil because
something something mosquitoes.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
But there.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
I love the early I don't know. This movie is
just so thoughtful in the way it shows their relationship building.
And you see Lelo treats Stitch though, kind of the
way that Nanny treats her, and it's just like a
lot of good kids stuff. Yeah, and I for I
didn't remember this from since the last time I watched
it maybe two years ago, but that scene where she
draws a picture of Stitch and then it's like very

(24:28):
red and she's like, your badness level is here, we
need to work on that.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's so high. I love it was so funny.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Oh, she's the best.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I also like how they set up that Lelo and
Stitch are similar and compatible, Like there's a reason that
she at least is drawn to him because he bites
whatever Captain gone to or I'll bring him up later.
But there's this other like alien guy who was responsible
for trying to like exile Stitch, but he messes up,

(25:00):
but Stitch bites him and then Leelo bites one of
her classmates Myrtle.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Yeah, she deserves it.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
She is bad.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
I liked that they I feel like Disney movies now generally,
and I'm like, so dubious about Disney reboots. I'm like,
I bet they'll change it for the reboot. But the
movie did not bother to like redeem Myrtle. By the
end of the movie, you're like, yeah, this kid's kind
of an asshole, and sometimes that's just true.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
Well I know why it's because I well, I think
it's in the Stitch has a glitch film. It's like
we kind of here. I forgot what exactly the occupation
her dad works. But Myrtle and her family are supposed
to represent a very like how they family here, like
you know, the hell the family that thinks like they
can do whatever they want, they own the place. They're

(25:52):
very rude. I've I've had a deal with a few
Myrtles in my life growing up, and I wanted to
scrap them as well, but my parents were like, no,
you're gonna get in trouble. But they were lucky. Yeah, yeah,
not a fan fuck Myrtle.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Okay, so One day, Leelo and Stitch visit Nanny at work.
She's a server at a Luau style restaurant. Also, there's
a guy named David, voiced by Jason Scott Lee.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
I love Dave David.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
I had a crush on David.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
He's very sweet. He has a crush on Nanny.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
And so does she because Leila read her diary and
she said that he had a nice butt and fancy hair.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
And I love how he does not care about the
butt parp. He was like, my hair's fancy. It's like
he knows, he knows that his butt looks fine. He's
just yeah, he's surprised about the hair. He's stress, he's conscious.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
About his hair. So he asks Nanni out, but she's like, now,
it's not a good time. Then Nanny gets fired because
Stitch causes a bit of a commotion at the restaurant,
but only because.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
It is Kevin McDonald in his mouth.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, it's they're trying to capture him. Yeah, So Nanny
goes to take Stitch back to the kennel, but Lelo
is like Dad said that Ohanna means family, and family
means no one gets left behind, and Stitch is part
of the family now, so we can't abandon him. Yeah,
gets left behind or forgotten.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
There's so many sequences in this movie where you're just like,
all right, I guess I'm just gonna cry for twenty minutes.
That's good.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
So then mister Bubbles shows up again, knowing that Nanni
lost her job. He sees Stitch misbehaving and he's like,
the next time I see y'all, you need to have
a job and your pet needs to be a model citizen.
And then there's a montage where Nanni applies to a
bunch of jobs and Lilo teaches Stitch to be like

(27:52):
Elvis because she thinks Elvis was a model citizen. But
everything goes wrong. Stitch is still misbehaving and Nanny still
can't find a job. Then David takes them surfing to
cheer them up, and it seems like Stitch is starting
to learn to be less destructive and better behaved. But

(28:14):
while they're surfing, the aliens try to capture Stitch, and
Nanny thinks that Stitch drags Lelo underwater, and mister Bubbles
sees this like near drowning.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Because he has nothing else to do with his goddamn.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
Life and just so happens to like avoid the aliens.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, it's like open your eyes, mister Bubbles.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
He's full tuxedo on the beach. He stresses me out,
like he's not remotely incognito at any point.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
So, because he sees all this catastrophe happening, he tells
Nanny that he's going to take Lilo away. The following morning,
Nanni is devastated. Back home, she sings Leelo a song
to say goodbye Aloha Oi. Meanwhile, Stitch realizes this whole
thing was his fault and he feels bad, so he

(29:09):
leaves in search of a new family. But doctor Jumba
finds him in the forest and starts chasing him, so
Stitch runs back to Lilo and Nannie's house. Meanwhile, David
has found Nannie a job, so she goes to check
it out with him and leaves Lilo at home, right
when Stitch and Doctor Jumba come crashing in and destroy

(29:32):
the house. Mister Bubbles shows up to take Lilo away,
but oh no, she and Stitch get captured by that guy,
Captain Gonetu.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
They're put into like an evil space tic tack, and
they disappeared.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Right because the Grand councilwoman sent Gone to to Earth
to get the job done because doctor Jumba completely we're
so incompetent.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, this movie does sort of assume that we're like interesting,
I guess, much like the Star Wars prequels. It's they
think that we're interested in like intergalactic politics in a
way that I'm like, yeah, I don't care if Captain
Gantu gets his job back. Who the fuck is that?

Speaker 2 (30:16):
I want more?

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Nanni, mm hmmm, whatever, he's there.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
He is there, and he loads Lilo and Stitch on
his spaceship, but Stitch manages to escape just before gone
to blasts offt into space with Lilo, and Nanny sees
this and she goes to Jumba inmpletely and tells them
to bring Lilo back, and they're like, hmm, we can't.
We're just here for the creature. Also, they call Stitch

(30:42):
Experiment six six, so they're like, we're just here for
Experiment six to six. But then Stitch convinces them to
help and they go on a rescue mission and Stitch
saves Lilo by hijacking a fuel truck driving it into
a volcan hano, which creates a huge explosion that blasts

(31:04):
him onto Gontu's ship, where Stitch is able to release
and rescue Lilo.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Like.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Some don't agree with his methods, but they but he
was it is.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
It's very destructive too.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
He was effective.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, So then the Grand councilwoman shows up and is
about to take Stitch away, but she realizes that he's
not the monster she thought he was, that he belongs
to this family and they all love each other, so
she lets him stay on Earth, and the movie ends
with Lelo, Nanny, and Stitch all being reunited and with

(31:41):
the help of Jumba pleakly mister Bubbles, who are all
like in their friend group now and David.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
I feel like they really let jumpa off the hook ultimately. Yeah, sure,
sure he's there, but he looks funny because he's a monster.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
He's nice now or something.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
He completely or married.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, and they all rebuild Lil and Nannie's house together,
and then we get this like kind of credit sequence
where there's a bunch of like photographs of them doing
different things, celebrating different holidays, traveling to different.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
Places, dancing, and Mary Monarch, which I'm like, wow, we
also just had Mary Monarch recently, like a couple of
weeks ago, and I'm like, I cannot imagine them allowing
an alien on there. Hey why not?

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Well, you know, you never know. Yeah, And so that's
how the movie ends with them as if as a
happy family. So let's take another quick break and we'll
come back to discuss.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
And way are back, Lily, Is there anything that you
would like to talk about right off the bat. We'll
sort of let you lead us and we'll sort of
jump in.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Yeah. So obviously I watched this film a lot when
I was a kid, and I didn't really think about
like kind of the deeper messages behind it and the
symbolism and all of that. I just thought, Oh, this
stitch is so funny, and oh it takes a place
where I live. This is so cool. That as I
got older and I would rewatch it, I really like
appreciated seeing kind of the race they clearly did research

(33:25):
and the details that they put in the film. Of course, again,
and this is a film directed by two white men,
and this was made in like two thousand and two,
when we don't really have kind of this awareness of
like authenticity and representing, you know, BIPOC communities and cultures.
But I would say for its time, it did pretty good.

(33:45):
I mean they I remember I was sharing these videos
on my TikTok a while ago about because like there
was like this trend going on TikTok where people were
dancing to the Kalaka or himel Nolilo song, which it
is a real chant, but they turned it into like
a song in this film. So how you would actually

(34:06):
chant the oh cola is very different. It's more like
kahiko traditional style. But anyways, there was like a trend
going on where people were like dancing to that song
on TikTok, but they were just like doing whatever the
hell they wanted to. They weren't dancing to like, you know,
actual like lyrics or they were they were just like
doing random movements that weren't even hula. Some of them

(34:27):
were like Tahesian movements as well. I'm like, that's not.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
What we do.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
And I was trying to tell people, like hula, you
dance to the words. It's not the movements, you know,
bring the words to life. So you can't just like
make up whatever movements you want to and call it
hula because that's not hula. And of course people were
saying this is just a movie, it's not real, and
I'm like, well, it's depicting my culture, so it is real.

(34:52):
And they were like, well, that's how they danced in
the movie, and I'm like, no, they did it. And
so I pulled up the receipts of the directors like
talking to kumuam mar ke Lei Ujomalu, and they were
like visiting his hello animating how he would play the
ipuhke so that like double gored that they played to
like keep the beat. And then also like videotaping the
hula dancers and they like would draw like they drew

(35:16):
like over like the video or I think they drew
it like you know, by like looking at it. But yeah,
you know, they wanted to like see the actual movements.
And again, if you look at that film and you
look at the movements, it corresponds to like the words
you know, claka hey, no, his name is klawkoa and
then so on and so forth, like PUA's flowers. So

(35:36):
you see them doing like this kind of movement where
this is supposed to signify flower. So it's trying to
show people like they did their research, like they were
trying to depict our culture for a reason. It's not
random but whatever. But yeah, I was rewatching it again
and just looking at Oh, they showed this so well.
And then I was listening to like I think there

(35:58):
was like one part in the film where the hula
teacher was speaking Hawaiian to the students, like the kids,
and I kind of found like a little kind of
a funny translation that they did. I think. I don't
know if there was like Hawaii language experts on the
film that kind of doubled and triple checked some of
the translations. So after Lelo started scrapping myrtle and like

(36:21):
you know, punching her, and he was trying to tell
every the kids to calm down, and then he tells
he tries to tell the kids like stop talking. But
how he said it, it was so weird. He says, which
doesn't mean like don't speak. It just says like doesn't speak,
like you would use that for like, you know oli,
you know, like they don't speak. If you want to
tell someone like don't speak, you can say like may valla, oh,

(36:44):
like don't speak, or you can say hamo, which we
mostly say that to children, like hamo, which means like
silence or you can say like om a lie, which
means to calm down. So I just thought it was fun.
It was like, this is like a very very literal translation,
but it's not a command, but.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
The grammar is quite there.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
Yeah. But I was also excited because I'm, you know,
a new Hawaii language speaker. No one in my family
speaks Hawaiian, so I'm like the first of my family
to learn it. Especially with my degree, we had to
learn Hawaiian. So I was really impressed that I was
able to watch this and think, wow, I can correct
them ooh Disney, but they did some like you know,

(37:23):
the other Hawaii language was pretty spot on. And also
appreciated hearing the pigeon speaking. So I'm Tia Carrera voicing
nanny speaking in a pigeon accent, and then the guys
who like ran over Stitch and how he ended up
in the animal shelter. Although I will say that's probably
the most forced pigeon I've ever heard, but it's okay.

(37:44):
I think some of them might be. But I think
that was like a first take or something like, well
we went hit. I'm like, Okay, that's very very forced,
very theatrical, but but yeah, I loved hearing just like
Pigeon being spoken in a Disney film, because not so
much when I was growing up, but when my parents

(38:04):
were growing up, and even like my grandparents. First of all,
speaking Hawaiian wasn't allowed. It wasn't until I think like
the early nineteen eighties that they started offering Hawaiian language
like in schools, and they started they started having like
Hawaii language emmergion schools, but before then there was a band,
so you weren't allowed to teach her speak Hawaiian after
the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom. And also like if

(38:25):
you spoke pigeon, which is our creole language, so it's
like Hawaiian English has some like Japanese, Filipino, Korean, Chinese
influences there. If you spoke pigeon, you were seen as
like unintelligent, you were seen as illiterate, ridiculous. So it
was just basically like English only So hearing in like
a Disney film like Pigeon being spoken and like Hawaiians

(38:49):
even though it was like kind of like little not
so much it was, but it was like really amazing
just hearing that because I don't know, it's like validating
our language and showing that it can be beautiful and
that we speak it here and just because we speak
pigeon or speak quin doesn't mean that we're not smart.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
I was also kind of struggling to see because there
was a really great oral history of Leelo inst that
came out a couple of years ago, and then there
was also a documentary, but it was tragically two hours long.
I did not finish it before we started recording. But
I was interested in what the research process was like

(39:36):
for the Unity, and I wasn't able to find. Yeah,
I also was not able to find specifics on language.
The most specific information I could find was that Tia
Carrero was really informative and it was more that like
there were not exclusively because David Chase. It's not her fault.
She's a kid, and she was also the girl from

(39:58):
the Ring, so good for her while two thousand and
two for her.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
She also voiced them Shihiro and Spirited Away, which is
like my favorite, right yeah, in English dub.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
But they you know, they did not cast a young
Hawaiian girl to voice Lilo, which they acknowledge in that
because the the oral history was done twenty years later,
and they acknowledge it, but they still are sort of
like skirting the subject.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
In a way.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
I found a little funky where they were like, well,
I agree there were no child actors in Hawaii. I
was like, that's just not true. That's just not true.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
So you find them, you find them. Yeah, I think
the only I think the only Native Hawaiian voice actor
in that film is Jason Scott Lee who voices David,
and I'm pretty sure also the voice actor for the
hula teacher and some like background characters also. But yeah,
Tia Carrera, even though she's born and raised here, she's
a local, she speaks pigeon, she is not Native Hawaiian ethnically.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Which is something that we see all that time, especially
in movies from this era, where this movie, for example,
characters who are Native Hawaiian are for the most part
not especially like the main characters, like the core group
of people who you spend the most time with, you
get to care for, they are for the most part
not voiced by Native Hawaiian actors, which is just frustrating

(41:22):
for a number of reasons.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, and it's like still going on, right, I mean,
that's been a and I'm curious on your thoughts on this, Lily,
Like that's a conversation that is going on in a
slightly different but not very different way with the live
action reboot of this movie, where every casting announcement has
very understandably sparked another conversation about Disney whitewashing and colorism

(41:47):
in their casting.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
Well, when they casted Maya Kaaloha for Leelo, of course,
I was like, she's so cute. She looks just like Leelo,
and she dances hula. She is native Hawaiian and so
we were all like really excited for her, and you know,
she's like, she's not an actress. I say this as
an actress myself, Like anyone can act, it's just you know, obviously,
the more experience you have, I think, the more confident

(42:10):
you are. But when it comes to like acting and
using your emotions, like anyone can do.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
That, especially with like children, I mean, like, yeah, they
have to start somewhere.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
Especially like if you're playing a character that you can
relate to, like culturally wise or whatever, then it doesn't
feel like acting. It's just you. You know, I would
prefer to cast someone who is connected to the character
than like.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
An actor, right, the idea of like an eight looking
at an eight year old and being like she's too green,
and you're like, yeah, she's she's she's talking about Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
Then they released the casting of Nanny, which, of course
a lot of us were like, she looks nothing like Nanny,
but a lot of us thought she was part Native Hawaiians,
So we were like, at least they casted someone.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Who is Native Hawaiian.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Would have been nice if had someone that looked more
like Nanny, especially because you know, the animators designed her
to look like that for a reason. You don't see
that kind of like especially in the previous Disney films,
like a lot of like the brown Disney girls, you know,
had like tiny noses, skinny bodies, very like.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Petite European centric features centric.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yeah, so Nanny is kind of one of the first
very indigenous looking characters or they embraced her like curvy
features and her indigenous features. And even though she's on
official Disney Princess, a lot of us call her like
our first Hawaiian Disney Princess. She's gorgeous and helped me
a lot with like loving my own features. But you know,

(43:45):
we thought, Okay, would have been nice to have someone
who actually looked like her player, but at least she's
Native Hawaiian. And then my friend released those receipts in
her TikTok that she is at native Hawaiian and we're like, welp,
that's an issue. It's like Doggie kamea Loja all over again.
Just cast the half white, half Asian girl to play
a native Hawaiian character instead of, like, I don't know
an actual native Hawaiian. Because they were able to find

(44:07):
Maya kaala hus. I'm like, why can't you find someone
for Nania? You would think, yeah, but I know Sydney
is born and raised in Kawai and you know she
grew up there, and I have friends who know her
that like went to school with her and all that.
It's a very small community here, so people know her.
And I guess like some people thought her family was Hawaiian,

(44:28):
but it would be kind of unfortunate to like know
that she lied about being Hawaiian to get this role.
Because I also have friends who auditioned for Nanny and
the casting directors told them specifically they were looking for
a native Hawaiian actress. Or like a Polynesian Pacific Islander actress.
So I think it's kind of like there's both parties
at fault when the casting directors for not like properly

(44:50):
looking at Sydney's background to see if she is Native Hawaiian,
but also like Sidney going for a role that's for
a Native Hawaiian actress. Especially again, like you look at
Doogie Kamalojo, you look at like other you look at
like Emma Stone in Aloha as well, where yeah, and
you look at other films like I know in White Lotus,
like they actually have Native Hawaiian actors play the men.

(45:11):
But it just seems like in a lot of films
or TV shows when they have like a Native Hawaiian
character who's a female, like they can't find a girl
to play her. It's like they want to have like
a Asian person with a tan or like I don't know,
just someone who doesn't like isn't Native Hawaiian. Which and
there's some discussion going on in our community where it's like, well,
at least she's from here, so we should give it that,

(45:33):
and we should be you know, not getting too upset
about it.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
But that just still takes opportunities away from actual native
Hawaiian actors and people.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Yeah, and I'm not denying that, like Sydney can't be
culturally Hawaiian because she did grow up here. I think, yes,
there's like you can be Hawaiian like genetically, and you
can be Hawaiian culturally, or it could be both. Like
I know a lot of people here who aren't genetically
native Hawaiian, but they grew up with Hawaiian culture. They
speak Hawaiian and all that. So I'm not going to
say like you can't be Hawaiian, but I think for

(46:03):
the sake of just casting, this character should have gone
to like someone who is native Hawaiian, because again, we
are very barely represented. And my friends who go to
auditions and they try to like get roles for them
and they never get them. There's clearly an issue going
on with the casting. And now on to David So.

(46:24):
I actually know both of the actors who were up
for David. So there was Cahio and then now Kaipo
was playing him. I was in like university classes, like
acting classes with them. I did like some acting stuff
with them. Yeah, I know. At first Cahio was casted
for David, and some people also were criticizing that because

(46:44):
of colorism, but also his features were not really looking
like David's. And then all of you know, the news
of him using the Ensler, you know, back in twenty thirteen,
but then also on the Spotify playlist, which I didn't
know those are reacent because I don't use Spotify. So
I'm like, I remember when I was looking those up.

(47:05):
I was trying to look up the playlist and I
couldn't find it, and I was trying to look up, Okay,
what year was this made? Because for the twenty thirteen
one he was like a minor during then, which I'm
not excusing, like miners who say that word are off
like horrible, but sure, you know, if you was like
saying this now as an adult, then I'd be like, okay, right,
and I could just speak from like living here, like
people aren't very aware of a lot of things outside

(47:28):
of I e. It's not really like they don't really
care about these things, which they should care. I'm not
saying like that's a excuse, but there are people here
that don't know a lot about like US history, or
they don't know about like the very apparent, like anti
black racism. I mean, it's like taught here, but not
to like the biggest extent, especially if it's a public

(47:48):
school here, it's awful. I can't go on that tangent,
but that's.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Fairly taught on the mainland United States as well.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Like, yeah, there is just a lack of awareness here.
But nowadays, with you know, more access to resources and
social media and more education, I definitely hear less kids
and less people using those kinds of racial slurs or
even in general just saying very insensitive things now because
I remember when I was a kid, people would say
so much insensitive things and I'm like, don't say that.

(48:16):
That's bad, and they're like, oh, are you like an
American or whatever. I'm like, no, you should just care.
But yeah, so they fired him because of those things,
and I completely understand that. But my friend Kuypel is
now playing David and I'm excited for him as well.
He's a very good actor. It's kind of funny. I'm like,
I read all like the news articles that show him

(48:39):
and just seeing a lot of people like thirst after
my friend, I'm like, I mean, I don't blame them.
He is a very handsome guy, but it's just so
funny because they're like, oh, he's so handsome, he looks
so much like David. I'm like, wait till they know
how much of like a goofball he is.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Because David is also a bit of a good Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
I was like, perfect, perfect David.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
True, but he is. He's a major goof all but
in all the right ways. Kype Off, you're hearing this,
I love you.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Thank you for that insight. I mean, I feel like
it is I don't know, it's like, that's such a
good point about just how Native Hawaiian actresses in particular
are just like erased and so easily erased, even in
two thousand and two of just like well we couldn't
find anybody. And I feel like that is almost preying
on other people's ignorance, where they're like, well, maybe that's

(49:32):
true when it's so demonstrably untrue, like you yourself are
a living proof that it is not true.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Yeah, And Disney has so many resources, like they were
able to find a Lak Cravao for Moana in twenty sixteen,
and she didn't do any like films prior to that.
I think she probably did some theater, but she went
to come to my high school. So of course she
knows how to sing, and they're all about like the
music and the singing there. But yeah, they like found

(50:01):
her and now she's an established actress and she's doing
other projects. So they have the resources. They just don't
want to use it sometimes.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yeah, they just don't like to be bothered.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just imagine how many talented people there
are out there that they can you know, it's good
for them too, business wise, like they can be like
we find so many like talented people. I'm like, just yeah,
just do it.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Just do that, put in the effort. Similar to the
missteps in casting, and like again like Tia Kuerra, like
she's a great actor. You know, we're not impugning her
talent or anything like that. It's just like native characters
should be played by native actors. Similar to that is
the conception.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Of this movie and who it was made by not
specific to Hawaii at all. Right, they originally wanted to
set the movie in Kansas.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Oh yeah, Oh I didn't read that. Yeah, So I
I'm pulling a lot of this from an oral history
of Lelo and Stitch from Vulture. So basically, co director
Chris Sanders had an idea for a story about an
alien who lived in the forest among animals, and then

(51:15):
a creative director at Disney, Thomas Chumaker, was like, okay,
but what if you made it an alien living among people.
That's more interesting than an alien living among animals. And
also the forest is just too much green, so we
need more color. So Chris Sanders responds to that in

(51:36):
this Oral History by saying, quote, I had a map
of Hawaii up on my wall. I'd been on vacation there.
One day. I thought, wait a minute, why couldn't I
just set it there. I didn't know anyone at that
point who was Hawaiian that I could consult with, so
I turned to a road map and I just started
pulling names. I found Lilo Lane, and I found the

(51:58):
word nanny on there, and these sounded like names to me.
Then I went away to Palm Springs and spent a
week hold up in a hotel room unquote. And then
it was there that he, I think, started developing the
story and then like created the design of Stitch. He
like did sketches and build a model and stuff like that.
So basically he was just like, hmm, I've been to

(52:18):
Hawaii on vacation. What if I just pull random names
from a map and then I make a movie about it.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
We got half of that correct. Nney is like a
very common name here. I've never met anyone named Lilo.
That's a very unique name. Also, I love like reading
online where people like say, oh, Lilo means lost or
to become lost, and she kind of becomes lost. Well,
there's another meaning to lelo, and it means to like
transform or to become something. So if I say, like

(52:48):
ualilo vau e koca, that means I became a doctor,
so like becoming something. So I think that's kind of cool.
I don't know if they like named her that because
of those meanings. I think again, just ohlo Land. Yeah,
Lelo is like a verb, so I'm like, huh, you
name your well Actually, you know, in our language, like
verbs can be nouns and nouns can be verbs depending

(53:10):
on like how you use them. But yeah, I've never
met I know a lot of nunnies, but I don't
know a lot of Leelo's. I don't think I know
anyone named Leelo.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Yeah, it did seem like a kind of randomly lucky guess. Yeah.
The documentary I watched also expanded on the fact that
they were looking for up until this decision to set
it in Hawaii was to put it somewhere that there
just wasn't a major city, or like there wasn't a
huge commercial airport so that Stitch could sort of not

(53:43):
be detected for a while, I guess. But they originally
said it in Kansas, but apparently they were like, that's
too much like the Wizard of Oz. Pick another location,
and that's how this so it is like it's so
I mean, I'm certainly very happy that they landed on
the location that they did, but it was so yeah,
just white director randomness, just looking around being like well,

(54:07):
and it's like those are generally the people making some
of the more big creative decisions in children's media, and
like we've talked about a million times on this show,
even when I mean these these moves, I guess, like
this era of Disney is so wildly hid and miss
and it's clear that Disney's priorities are still based on

(54:29):
all of these recent controversies, not in the right place,
because they're never the first option is never to hire
a native Hawaiian director. For a project like this, which
is the clear answer is like a native Hawaiian director
who is excited about doing this, like that is it's
the easiest thing in the world, and.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
They have resources to look for a native Hawaiian director,
Like I was actually talking to my husband about this,
I'm like, why don't they because we have I don't
know if you guys have heard of HIFF before. Are
at the Hawaii International Film Festival? Oh yes, yeah, I
don't know why they can't find directors from there who've
like I don't know, I think there's an award show
for him. I'm sorry, I've never watched a lot of

(55:10):
it because always.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
It's like it's almost like they definitely could.

Speaker 4 (55:14):
Yeah, they could do that, or if they wanted to
have a more like established director that has more experience
and all that, that is like Pacific Islander. I was
even saying, why didn't they get Taika why TD to
direct this? Because he he's Pacific Islander, he's Maudi and
he is definitely aware of Hawaiian culture and more culturally sensitive,

(55:35):
and but I think it would have been nice to
have like a native Hawaiian director or someone who is
like Pacific Islander.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
But spoiler alert, it's directed by.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
A white guy again, anyah, like director, screenwriter for an
animated film, like I don't know exactly who all is
responsible for like character design, but whoever's like designing characters
like these should be native Hawaii people and Okay, So
Chris Sanders another quote from him, Dean and I have

(56:05):
no business telling a Hawaiian story. You can tell stories
like that, but then you find people who do have
a business there. So we reached out to as many
people as we could that lived there, and it's like, yeah,
you're right, you don't have a business telling a Hawaiian story,
but you did it anyway.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Why Well, I guess that's a I'm interested in your
feelings on that, lily, because I feel like there's so
many like especially because this is like two thousand and
two where there's like Disney is not hiring native Hawaiian
directors to direct any project, and so it's like it
feels to me as I was researching it, it's like

(56:44):
the only way that a major Disney movie would take
place in Hawaii in this era is if one of
these random white guy directors chose that and then tried
to allocate research towards it, which is absolutely not shouldn't
be the practice or the solution. But it feels like
for the time that is the most that was being

(57:05):
done within the major Hollywood system. So I don't even want, like,
I like, obviously the co directors of this movie, no,
they have no business making a Hawaiian movie, but they
I don't know, Like I don't. It's such a weird,
fraught topic because I do. I was honestly surprised based

(57:27):
on other, you know, Disney movies we've covered that they
did research at all and the bars on the absolute
fucking floor, it's beneath the floor at the bars in
Hell for this sort of research. But I don't know. Yeah,
I'm interested in both your opinions on that because it's
I totally agree with that you're saying, Kaitlin, And I'm

(57:47):
also like, I don't know how else a movie like
a Disney movie would have taken place in Hawaii in
two thousand and two.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah, I think a lot of it is just it's Hollywood.
It's like a there's a certain network of people, so
they want people that they know to direct. I also
think a lot of it is like white savior complex
that they think, like, we don't have the right to
tell this Hawaiian story, but we're gonna try really hard
and really like we respect it so much. I'm like, well,
if you really respect it, then you would know that

(58:16):
it's not your place, and that you don't need to
be the center of attention, and that you can use
your resources to let someone of that culture, of that
place tell it. But yeah, I noticed, especially within my
studies in Hawaiian theater versus like I grew up with
a very Western like theater background, you know, I did
a bunch of Shakespeare, learned Tennessee Williams all of that,

(58:40):
and just with my upbringing in Western theater, it's very
much about like I'm the star, I want to be
this main character. I want the lights on me, I
want you know, I want the attention. But then in
Hawaiian theater, it's all about telling the story. It's about
the characters. What is the message you're trying to convey? Why? Now?
Why me? All of that and a lot of in

(59:02):
Hawaii theater, we're telling stories about our ancestors or like
our home. So it just kind of made me rethink about,
like why am I an actress. Why do I perform?
Is it because I want to be the attention or
is it because I want to help tell meaningful stories
to help inspire people? And I think it would be
great of a lot of like you know, these like

(59:24):
Western media companies like Hollywood and Disney focused on that
focused on the storytelling and not about the fame and
the fortune, which they're not the ego, but they're not
going to do that, yeah, because the part of that
they have to like reflect and think, maybe I'm not
the best person to tell this story, so whop, I'm
not going to get the oscar for this film. But

(59:46):
I mean it's like you can still be a part
of it, but just you should have like.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
You can finance it.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
Sir financed it, or like you know, if you want
to have like multi because like also I think about
in Hawaii theater, there's not always one director. There's always
like multiple directors having like multiple different perspectives. And I
don't know why like we need to have like films
with just one director. And I would love to see
more films where they have like it's more of like

(01:00:13):
a collaboration and like a team. You don't need to
have like, yeah, the director, because again it's about ego.
It's like I want to win the Oscar for Best Directing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Not me.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Yeah, it's like, well, why why do you care about
an award and not about the movie you're trying to tell.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Telling the best story you can tell, right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, and they absolutely should have advocated
for a native Hawaiian director, and even, like you're saying, Lily,
even as a co director, that would have made worlds
more sense then, because I feel like that became the
Disney formula that did carry through if I'm remembering correctly,
that carried through to Mowana as well. We still have

(01:00:53):
two white co directors directing an animated movie about Polynesian culture,
but the sort of safe guard, which I'm glad it's there,
but it can't be the like the only way that
Native cultures are involved in the portrayal of their own
culture is like they're like, well, we allocated a lot
of money and time to research, and it's like but

(01:01:14):
but it always has to be inclusion at the top
levels or it doesn't sustain like.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Ever, Yeah, they definitely in Mowana, they definitely did like
a lot better. I remember watching like this a lot
of document about their creation of it, and I do
I do appreciate that they actually spent years traveling to
I don't know if those months or years, but like
traveling to the different Pacific islands and meeting with the
community and learning how to wayfind or learning how to

(01:01:41):
make tapa, making food, fishing, performing arts and stuff. Again
too white directors and all that, But I actually was
really surprised that in their whole team they actually also
had like Pacific Islanders in their trying to help make decisions,
although they weren't allowed to make like final decisions. And
I think there were some parts where they were trying
to like push really hard to have these certain things.

(01:02:03):
But Disney, of course is like new but whatever. And
then for the music, I love how they had Tevoka
in there, and of course lind Manuel Miranda, which I'm like, Okay,
that's random because he's not Pacifica at all, but I mean, yeah,
he makes good music, so why not. I would have
been nice in like, we know the way, if I

(01:02:24):
didn't have to hear his voice, I would have loved
to hear, like hear Opataia's voice, an actual Pacifica in there.
But that's why I listened to the Hawaiian dub or
like the Maudi or Tsan dub of the films because i'mlike,
this sounds nicer, you're actually hearing the music in there.
But yeah, I remember that like Mwana kind of especially

(01:02:44):
with the casting of like All Pacific Islanders, with the
exception of like what's his name who plays Hey, Hey,
it's like that Tutic guy forgot oh Alentudic.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Yeah he's great, he's great.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
But that's the standard, like wanna really set the standard
of like, Okay, when you're gonna make these films that
have cultural like depictions, you should cast people accordingly. So
they did that with like Cocode, they did that with
like Encanto. They did not do that with like Ryan
the Last Try Again famously, But yeah, like you said,
it's kind of hit or miss. It's like you think

(01:03:20):
they're doing really well, but then they like flop, and
then they do really well and then they like flop again.
I'm like, they just need to find the correct formula
and just go with it, like stop trying to I
don't know. But and then I was really looking forward
to like the live action because I thought, oh, well,
I mean, this could have been a great opportunity to

(01:03:41):
correct some of the mistakes in the animated film and
to cast native Hawaiian more Native Hawaiian actors and actresses
in here. But then of course all the casting controversies
and then who's directing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
It and all that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
I'm like, okay, no, this is this is not it.
I'm just gonna keep watching the animated film.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
And yeah, it is frustrating to think that the two
thousand and two version may very well be done more
thoughtfully than a twenty twenty four version. But it goes
back to like, if there was inclusion, I feel like
Disney would not be so consistently flopping on these issues
all the fucking time if there was inclusion at the

(01:04:20):
highest levels. But because it's still a bunch of largely
mostly white men, but also why women in these positions
that they're never gonna stop flopping And it's like it's it,
It drives me absolutely up a wall, and it's like
you're literally doing worse that the business you want to
be in charge of because you're so fucking like eurocentric weirdos.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
Yeah, they should have done it, like turning red for example,
like having a Chinese actress, and she has done I
think that ball picks our short. It's with a dumb
blingh Oh my god. That was so cute. But like,
you know, taking someone who is like a smaller director
and then giving her an opportunity and really depicting the culture,
having someone of that culture also with the same lived

(01:05:06):
experiences being a immigrant in Canada Canadia to tell the
story and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
And it shows in the mood like movies.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Yeah, still one of the biggest crimes of twenty twenty
two that Turning Red didn't get like a huge theater release. Yeah,
them putting that right on Disney. Plus, I was like,
I will never forgive ever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Come on. I loved it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
I watched it so many times though, I'm like, it
was so good. And of course people hated it because
it was about teenage girls and anything about girls as
poopy and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
I'm like, a movie about periods, and it's like, that
is not what the movie's about. Even Yeah, it was
like metaphors.

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
It was like two minutes talking about pyramids, pyramids, periods. Sorry,
we in some pigeon we'd call periods like pyramids. I
hear my mom call it a lot. Oh let's get
your pyramid.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
That I was babysitting a kid during my friend's wedding
last year who's loved churning Red And I was like, hey, Maya,
I was alive in two thousand and two, and she
was like, oh, she's disgusting. I was like, all right, cool,
never mind, I will see myself out.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
Oh that's interesting. Yeah, it does take place in two
thousand and two, the same yeah year that Leelo and
Stitch I think also takes place as well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, Wow, it's all connected, Lily.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Since you brought up the music in Mowana, I was
curious on your thoughts on the music in Leelo and
Stitch because there's also some interesting kind of like behind
the scenes things happening there where. So Alan Silvestri was
hired to be the composer for this movie. You'll never
believe it. Another white guy who I'm actually a big

(01:06:56):
fan of. He what is he fam for me? I
would say he's most famous for the Back to the
Future score, but he's got a pretty prolific career. He
works with Robert Semechis a lot, but you know, probably
not the right person to compose a film with a
lot of native Hawaiian music in it. No obviously, and

(01:07:21):
it seems like the directors were like trying to do
some research and people were like trying. But when you
read this oral history, you come upon a lot of
comments from the composer and the directors who were like,
oh I went to a Virgin megastore looking for music,
specifically Hawaiian music, and you could find like two CDs

(01:07:45):
of Hawaiian music. Oh see.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
I felt like that quote. I mean, not to excuse
any of their behavior or hiring away guy, but I
feel like that was intended to illustrate the fact that
Hawaiian music was extremely underrepresented in in the mainland US
at that time. It was like he was trying to
do research and like literally could not because it was

(01:08:07):
so underrepresented.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Which is probably why they should have just went to
Haveaii and find native native Hawaiian musicians, which they did,
because yeah, I mean they did for like the Kamehameha
Children's Choir. I really liked that they were in there
because again, Kamehameha schools are all about the music and
the singing. They always have like a song contest like

(01:08:31):
every year, which if no one knows that I highly recommended.
These kids are so talented and you know, singing Hawaiian music,
dancing hula, just honoring the culture. But yeah, I find
that definitely. I mean, I liked the music. I like
the music. It's very catchy. It's definitely very Elvis Presley,
which I know a lot of people kind of associate

(01:08:53):
Elvis Presley with Hawaii for some reason because of that
movie or something Blue Have II and all that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Honestly didn't know that because I hadn't seen I mean,
I haven't seen I don't know if I've seen any
Elvis movies. But I was because that always felt very
random to me. But then when I was researching for
this episode, I was like, I don't, I mean, I don't.
Maybe did did that feel like a choice that made
sense to you?

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
It's a very it's a very boomer way of thinking
of like music, because I'm like, not a lot of
I mean, again, Elvis is a very talented guy. We
grew up listening to his music. It's very catchy. But
you know, he's also racist and you know, has a
very problematic history, So I would not really associate with

(01:09:36):
them with Hawaiian culture. I'm surprised they didn't like put
Israel Kamako Vivole on there, butrough it is. He's the
one that sang like Somewhere over the Rainbow and all that.
He was the big guy, beautiful singer. My father in
law actually went to school with him, which is really funny.
I'm like small community here. He was always playing the ukulele,

(01:09:56):
always singing. So rest and peace esparta is. But but
we have musicians here. I don't know why they didn't
like put like our music on there, especially like when
you come to have III and when you go to
like Waikiki and other touristy areas, it's like you get
some of like the Elvis Presley or like Hapa Howle
like music, but you also get a lot of Hawaiian

(01:10:20):
musicians in there, and I noticed that the tourists really
like listening more to like the Hawaiian music. And it
would have been a great opportunity to represent Hawaiian musicians
and Hawaii music. But I think the only extent was
again the Kamehameha School choir. I watched it behind the
scenes of them like singing in the studio and it
was really cute. I'd mentioned earlier the beginning song with

(01:10:42):
Himele Nolilo that's an actual song or a chant in
honor of King Kalakkawa. But Kumu Markeli Homalu like changed
the tune and all that and the music to make
it more like I think palatable. Big quotes palatable for
like an American because they don't want to hear like

(01:11:02):
chanting or whatever. But that would have been cool to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
That been so cool. Yeah, Well the rest of that
quote was that, so this is Chris Sanders talking where
he's like, we went to a music store and tried
to find Hawaiian CDs uh and then he goes on
to say we found out that like that, there were
so few because the parameters are very clear as to
what you can and can't do with this music. We

(01:11:25):
wanted to orchestrate this music. We wanted to take these
Hawaiian themes and make them movie scale, and that's a
bit of a no no. And then Alan Silvestri says,
we wanted to bring in this more traditional Hawaiian influence
to some of the songs, and we discovered there is
a very deep sacred aspect to real traditional Hawaiian music.
It's a very cared for tradition from Hawaii. And it's like,

(01:11:48):
so if these are things that you discover after you've
decided to set the movie in a certain place and
depict a certain culture, like that means you're out of
your element.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
Yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with like knowing that
you don't know everything and that it's okay to allocate
like certain duties or like have other people like help
with it, because guarantee there would have been like a
lot of kumuhula here or like you know, Hawaiian music
practitioners and women like yeah, we'll tell you what songs
you can use, what you can't use and all that

(01:12:20):
because they've worked on films before, they've worked in TVs,
like they they know what is like Kapu forbidden or
Noah more free.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
And it's all the more frustrating to know that that
is still actively happening. I don't I don't know much
about what the situation is with music composition for the
live action, but it's like the problems are still the same, Yeah,
and it yeah, it's it's it's really frustrating, and especially
to hear in the especially in the twenty years later

(01:12:53):
oral history that it's like, Yeah, I just wish that
it's like, I don't know, there's like a defensive nature
to the way that the talking and it could have
just like the sentence can.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Just end it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
We didn't really have a right to tell this story,
and maybe even an expression of have you reflected on that,
how would you do it differently?

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Like that can be instructive, but they just sort of are,
like it felt more defensive than reflective, which is always
sort of like a frustrating thing to come up against.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Right, Can we talk about the characters? Yeah, I love
them Lelo and Nanni. I mean just from a representation standpoint,
and I'm curious to hear your thoughts, of course, Lily.
But I think there's like interesting things happening in this
movie where you know, you have indigenous characters living in

(01:13:50):
the modern world and dealing with everyday issues, which shouldn't
be that rare of a thing. But so many movies
about Native people are set in the past, and of
course those stories are important too, but I think that
contributes to a tendency that I think a lot of

(01:14:11):
non native people have where they just don't really know
anything about the lives and experiences of Native people, or
even worse that they are not even really sure that
Native people exist like in the US special.

Speaker 4 (01:14:26):
Yeah, they talk about us like we're part of the past.
And what's even worse is when I hear a lot
of non native Hawaiian people say like, well, you guys
are mixed, so you're you guys are not pure Native Hawaiian,
so you guys don't count. And I'm like, that's a
very colonizer mindset because a Native Hawaiians never cared about
blood quantum or even like phenotypes, about what you look like.

(01:14:48):
It's about genealogy and how connected you are with the culture.
Are even our elite are like royal members didn't care
about blood quantum. The next Queen of Hawaii would have
been Princess cut you Aleney, who is half Hawaiian and
half Scottish, and they're not like, you can't be the
queen because you're only half. And then we had Prince
Kuhio who created the Hawaiian Homesteads Act where he wanted

(01:15:11):
to give like land to Native Hawaiians and at first
he didn't set a blood quantum because he didn't want to.
It's just it passes down in your family. But of
course the US government was like, you need to put
a blood quantum, so he thought of like the lowest
one possible. He was like, okay, one and a thirty
second then and they said that's too low, so they
basically forced him to go half Hawaiian. So like, even then,

(01:15:34):
I wouldn't be I'm not qualified to apply for homestead
land because I not enough. But again, like we don't
care about blood quantum. It's it's a colonizer mindset. So
I've had conversations with non Hawaiian people who say, like, well,
you guys are only mixed, so you guys aren't even
considered native Hawaiian.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
I'm like, ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
You don't know our lives and how we connect with
our culture. Culture is more deeper than that. If we
just start telling people that they can't learn their language
or their culture because they don't look a certain way
or because their percentage is too low, then you would
see a bunch of cultures going extinct today because people

(01:16:18):
are people are going to mix. People are going to
be mixed in the future, whether people like it or not.
But culture gets passed down.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
It's almost like blaming people for being colonized.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Like it's like, yeah, like my aunts, I didn't choose
first of all. I mean, I didn't choose to be
mixed fall So I love that I can come from
different cultures and that they're all part of me. I'm
not only this much Hawaiian or I'm not only this
much Korean or this much Filipino. I am Hawaiian and
Korean and Filipino and this and that and whatnot. And

(01:16:54):
that's that's how we think here. And I mean, I'm
married to a Japanese man and our kids are probably
going to be like more Japanese, but like how I
raise them is still going to be Hawaiian. They're still
going to live here, They're still going to be of me.
So yeah, it's it's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
So yeah, like there should be no punitive aspect to
who you are, Like that's just yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:17):
Yeah, it's like I'm sorry, it's my right arm Hawaiian then,
and I think like my pinky toe is Irish or
something like. It's yeah, if you think about it that way,
it's silly. It's like it's all of you. Your ancestors
live through you fully, and you are the representation of
your ancestors. So don't say that you're only this much

(01:17:38):
or only this much. You are that much and you're
still that, You're still you. Yeah. Other than that, yeah, representation.
I think they're beautifully animated. I love how they look,
and you know, I feel like they really much represent
real people who live here. I remember one time I

(01:18:01):
was watching Lelo and Stitch with like my friends in
high school, and there was a scene where like when
Nanny's trying to find Lilo and then she almost gets
run over by cobra bubbles and she was like, what
do you go? You stupid and then like kicks the
car and my friends kind of looked at me, they
are like, you are so like that. I'm like, what me,

(01:18:22):
I don't have anger issues? I kind of do, but
I love that. It's like, how, you know, yeah, we're
very It's kind of a running joke here about like
how Hawaiian women are, like Polynesian women are very scary
and like hot headed, but like not in like a
negative way, like but like as in they're powerful, don't
mess with them sort of way. And I am proud

(01:18:44):
to reclaim that my husband knows don't mess with me.
People know don't mess with me.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
I love and with Nanni's character. I mean, it's so
I really love how she's written and how she's performed
in spite of everything we've talked about so far, because
it's like she is. It's so weird because in moments,
like there's some moments where we were like, oh, yeah,
she's nineteen, and I feel like that comes through in

(01:19:12):
certain moments where she's doing everything she can to protect Lilo.
She has to said Leo, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
Not Leroy, No, not Leroy and Stitch inferior, but Nanni's character.
I mean Lelo and Nanni. It's kind of like it's
I don't want to have it be a contest because
they're both so wonderful in such different ways. But like Nanni,
I feel like it's one of the more complex Disney

(01:19:42):
characters that we encounter period because we're like watching her navigate,
not only her and I feel like this didn't resonate
for me when I was a kid, because I was
so like, it's the Lelo show, baby, because you see
Lelo active mourning her parents, who it seems has died

(01:20:04):
fairly recently. Yeah, and that also ties into why she's
not fitting in at school at this time because Nanni says,
they don't know what to say, like they don't know
how to communicate with her, and.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
Yeah, kids give me mean, oh my god, like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
They Myrtle alert.

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
Yeah see it with.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
Myrtle Myrtle and her little mean girl minions.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Sorry I brought opinions again.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Yes, but but I mean, but Nanni is also having
to deal with this loss. But she can't even really
she doesn't have time to grapple with that grief because
she has to navigate this abrupt switch from sibling to parent.
And I feel like it's just done so well where
their sibling moments are so sibling, and then you see

(01:20:51):
like Nanni almost have to like remind herself of like,
oh no, I have to be a parent now.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
And she's so nurturing, like she is so loving, and
just the sacrifices she has to make, Like when I
was rewatching it with my husband, I pointed out, like
she has like surfing trophies in the bag. She was
like a professional surfer and she had to give all
of that up so she can take care of her sister. Yeah,
and it's just yeah, just imagine being like a nineteen

(01:21:18):
year old, you know, just kind of living your life,
like you have a six year old sister whatever. Your
parents are taking care of her, but you know, you're
like at that age where you're more independent and you
do things, and then all of a sudden, now you
have to like drop everything and take care of your
kid's sister because there's no other adult that can take
care of them, which is kind of sad to think about,

(01:21:40):
Like they don't have like aunties or uncles that can
like help, or grandparents or anything, kind of showing like
how small their family is. But yeah, and like her
just kind of being the only one who understands le
Lo as well, Like how we mentioned earlier with like
her wanting to name Stitch Stitch and then the lady

(01:22:00):
tried to tell her that's not real name Nanny, Like
you know, she protects her also, like when Nanny gets
fired from the LUO and Lelo was like concerned that
it was her fault, but then Nanny was like, oh no,
the manager is part of the evil vampires that wanted
me to join their legion. I'm like she does so
much for li Lo and protects.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Her, and which also shows that they're like it's so
clear that they're sisters because they both have these like
weird little like they're they're goofy, they're silly, they like,
they're very creative, they have like a very active imaginations.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
And then was like I knew it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
I love Oh, such a good joke.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
It's like, yeah, it reminds me of like my relationship
with my sisters too, Like we'll be fighting and we'll
be hating each other's guts, but then when one of
us is in trouble, we drop everything to be there
for each other. So really depicting that, you know, sister
relationship very well. And yeah, and just also shedding light

(01:22:58):
on a lot of issues that we face in our
community with you know, over tourism, environmental damages, separating Indigenous
children from their homes, the foster care system, the whole.
Like again like cobra bubbles approaching us like an American
government official.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of weird pros. It's I guess
that's something that hit weird for me is that cobra bubbles.
I mean, I guess it feels very two thousand and
two also, but like how cobra bubbles and and I
guess the Russian scientist alien they get to be a

(01:23:40):
part of the family at the end, and I'm like,
I feel like they haven't really earned it. I don't know,
I don't know if I would want them around, But
I mean, especially Cobra Bubbles, who is like this representation
not just of the CIA, it turns out one of
the most easily hated organizations on the planet, but all
so the fact that he represents the foster care system

(01:24:03):
and is still treated pretty like more than neutrallly, like
under sympathetically in the end, even though he was about
to like take her a separate in an indigenous family permanently,
and you I mean not that this is like an
accurate way that a social worker would spend their day,
but the fact that he clearly had time and resources

(01:24:26):
to help them and instead use the same time and
resources to separate them, which I know is something that happens,
but if you're going to like portray that, I feel
like it should be with the appropriate amount of criticism.
But instead they're like, and then he just sort of
kept coming over and hanging out, and You're like, I

(01:24:48):
don't know, yeah, I mean, he seems I loving rams,
but it just was weird, right. It seemed like he
was framed as a as a villain, not the villain necessarily,
but like as a an antagonistic force throughout the movie.
But he gets that redemption at the end out of
nowhere for no reason, which yeah, I didn't understand why.

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
Yeah, Like it would have been nice if he could
have acknowledged something like, wow, none of this was your fall.
It was literally aliens just coming in and like making
it more difficult for you, which I think it's a
pretty I was talking about this with my husband, a
very interesting like kind of symbolism of just like indigenous
issues where we often get blamed for our problems, like

(01:25:32):
for poverty, homelessness, unemployment and all that, but not knowing
just kind of the deeper issues in society, which is
like capitalism, which is white supremacy, you know, settler colonialism,
and when you look at how Viti over half of
the homeless population is Native Hawaiians and we would often
get blamed for it. It's like, oh, well, they're just

(01:25:54):
lazy or they just don't try hard enough, or they
want to spend all their money on drugs or whatever, like, well, no,
it's because you forced an American style of government and
American way of living on an indigenous nation that has
been living fine for years prior. But yeah, but it
would have been interesting for I don't know, gone to

(01:26:17):
and Cobra to be like, hey, we're sorry for one
messing things up, but to also jumping to conclusions for
things that were entirely out of your reach, not your faulty,
love stitch, but it was kind of his fault. But yeah,
he apologized, he did, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Yeah, but yeah, I did think it was interesting how
much is brought up, because there are issues that I've
never seen in Disney movies or really much kids media
in general, brought up in this movie. And so it's like,
because it's happening, I guess, I mean, you would want
a stronger commentary on it. And I feel like it
would completely fit within the formula of what these movies are,

(01:26:59):
and it would fit within the story and it would
sort of serve I think, everyone better.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
But I don't know, And I think the movie strikes
a nice balance of characters dealing with adversity, dealing with
the effects of systemic issues that again are not at
all their fault, particularly related to class and colonialism, but

(01:27:28):
also seeing the main characters experience joy and love and
happiness and just like that nice balance of like acknowledging,
you know, injustices and systemic issues that bipoc people often
deal with, but not like skewing so far into that

(01:27:48):
where it becomes like tragedy porn, which a lot of
movies go into that territory when it comes to stories
about marginalized people.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
So yeah, and I love the moments where they have
joy is always tied back to Hawaiian culture, like with
hula and surfing and singing Hawaiian music. Yeah, just those
things that really ground us and connect us as people
to our ancestors and just kind of remind us like
who we are and where we are and what our

(01:28:19):
purpose is. Yeah, Like when Lilo was scared that she
might not dance hula after she punched myrtle, like she
was like so remorseful, like hula is, especially knowing that
her mom was a hula dancer as well. So that's
how she connects to her mother is through hula dancing. Yeah.

(01:28:40):
In Hawaiian culture, it's like very patriarchal. A lot of
the cultures passed down from the mother's side.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess going back to the sister relationship,
I mean, I don't know. I also think it's like
very it's very rare to see sister relationships focused on
in kids media, especially kids media of this time. We
joke on the show all the time that ultimately every
movie is somehow about fathers and sons. It's still basically true.

(01:29:09):
I hear that that's what the New Mario movie is
about somehow, which was like, oh my god, oh I
haven't seen it. But someone was like, it's about fathers
and sons. I was like, I guess, of course it is.
It should just be about plumbers and plumbers. But anyways,
but this movie I think meaningfully diverted from that. Again,

(01:29:29):
not the original plan of the movie. The original plan
of this movie was Stitch and a Little Boy in Kansas,
but early I think, before the setting of the movie
was switched. The gender of the child was switched, which
again was unusual because I feel like we get with
unless unless there's examples I'm not thinking of off the

(01:29:52):
top of my head. You see, like teenage girls often
and they're almost always white, and if they're not white,
they're usually heavily sexualized in the Disney Princess kind of space.
But you don't see just like kids who are girls
very often. And I love that Leelo is such she's
just like the most kid to ever kid. She's such

(01:30:15):
a goofball and she's like so I don't know, she's
like such a in some moments, she's such an open wound,
but she's just like so emotionally like I just I
just love her so much. And I like that they
just feel very authentic to like how old they are
and how they relate with each other, and their sisterhood
drives this story and I feel like that's really rare

(01:30:38):
and beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:30:38):
People try to say that Frozen was the first film
that depicted like sister relationships, Like no, it's Leland and Stitch.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
Yeah, go back thirteen years.

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Obviously very biased, but like Frozen is not doing what
Leelo and Stitch is doing or what Leelo and Nannie
are doing, rather like it's just not that it's a contest,
but it is. That is true, But Lula's ditch the
movie did win. I wanted to talk character design in particular.

(01:31:10):
There's one scene where it's the scene where Leelo comes
in after having fed pudged the fish a peanut butter sandwich.
And so she comes into the rehearsal and there are
the four other small girls that she's trying to be
friends with, and then there are five like teenage or

(01:31:32):
young adult Native Hawaiian women who are all seemingly the
same exact design.

Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
Yeah, with slightly.

Speaker 3 (01:31:40):
Different skin tone and hair color slash length. But I
was like, that was pretty lazy, right, That's there's no
body diversity in that group of women at all.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
Definitely not And I found that to be I was
noticing little things like that throughout the movie. Oftentimes, unless
there was an elderly Native woman, a lot of the
Native Hawaiian characters who are like, you know that kind
of like twenty ish years old, all seemed to have
almost the same exact It's like they designed Nanny and

(01:32:16):
then they just sort of like copy paste, copy pasted.

Speaker 4 (01:32:20):
I also want to make a comment on the hula
attire that the Kai like the little girls wear. I
will just say, no way would they be able to
wear like a small tube top that shows their mid drift.
That is not I would say like what the older
women wear was a little bit more accurate, because like

(01:32:41):
it's like covering their mid drift, but especially because when
you're doing like Cohico traditional style, like you don't show
your stomach. But yeah, I just thought, like, Okay, what
the girls little girls are wearing is very kind of
a white person's perspective, like touristy like postcard with the
hula girl there. I'm like, that's not what we wear.

(01:33:03):
Like the tea leaves, the tea leave skirts were good,
and like also like they're they're lepol the head lay
and like they're kind of the bracelets and the anklets.
But yeah, at the red tube top. I know it's
an iconic look for her character, but I'm like, never
seen a child wear something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
Probably for the best, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
Yeah, but I do agree, But I also kind of knows,
like in general, like nowadays, like I think when Disney
makes like a lot of different characters, they do better
at like kind of diversifying the faces. But I've just
noticed like older Disney films like they would kind of
use like the same face model for a lot of things,
like the the Blue Fairy in Pinocchio has like the
same face as Snow White.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
So yes, they actually they like recycled a lot of
animation just because it, like, I mean, I get why
like animation, especially when it was like hand.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
Drawn, which this movie is. I think that this is
like the last major Disney movie to be almost completely
two D animation. Dork, so I'm like, and the backgrounds
were watercolors. Water color never happens and it's so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
Yeah, Princess and the Frog was a few years later,
and yeah, I think there was like the last one
in that kind of traditional the TWD and then then
Entangled came after with.

Speaker 4 (01:34:18):
The three D. But yeah, it would have been nice
to like see because when you go to like a helal,
when you go to like a hula school, like, there
are many different kinds of dancers there. Not all of
them are Native Hawaiian as well, because anyone can dance
hula as long as you just learn it properly. But yeah,
you get plenty kind of dancers there, and if you

(01:34:39):
watch like Marry Monarch as well, you see the performers
not all of them look the same. Like you have
very different looking dancers. But even just for Native wines
in general, we come in different shades and appearances and
different facial features, especially because like I said, a lot
of us are mixed, so some of us will look
more Asian, some of us will look a little bit

(01:35:00):
more like white, some of us will look more Hawaiian. Whatever.
That's kind of the beauty of it being here. It's
just how unique and diverse it is. But yeah, they
really set copy paste on the face.

Speaker 3 (01:35:14):
It's like egregious, and I'm like, yeah, I know what
you're saying. It's like, yeah, they do that on like
a lot of animated movies, where it's like, I think
this movie was fairly low budget for how compared to
it is, and they made it entirely in Florida, which
can have been fun. Well Florida, oh boy, Yeah, they

(01:35:36):
didn't even like they outsourced that. I saw like a
lot of internal This was like the part of the
oral history that isn't super relevant to our show, but
I was like interested in it where they're like, yeah,
we think the only reason this movie is good is
because we didn't have to make it in California, so
kind of no one was paying attention and like we
were sort of left to our own. We were like

(01:35:57):
marooned in Orlando, which sounds miserable, but I guess it.
I guess it sort of worked out again, You're like,
why were we not in Hawaii but they were, in
fact in Orlando.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Yeah, whoops. But yeah, just going back to the character
design a little bit. I do appreciate that that Nanny
and lie Low, and particularly Nanni because she has you know,
she's an adult, that she's not designed like so many
of the other Disney female characters of the past. We
touched on this a little bit already, but you know,

(01:36:31):
you have so many Disney princesses like Jasmine and Ariel
and you know, so many others who were just like
designed to be unrealistically thin.

Speaker 4 (01:36:43):
Oh yeah, like their waist is the same size as
their neck their.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
Neck, yeah, and like you mentioned Jamie, like so often
hyper sexualized. So Nanni was not designed that way. And
that was like a deliberate effort on the part of
I guess to give the director, the co director, Chris Sanders,
a little bit of credit. This is a quote from

(01:37:07):
Pam Coates, who's the senior vice president of creative Development
at Disney. She says, quote, I remember Chris Sanders when
he was drawing Nanny. He asked our production supervisor to
pose for him. Can you pose? Because I want to
draw your legs on Nanny, which also is maybe a
weird request. But anyway, she said, Chris just went there

(01:37:29):
as opposed to having.

Speaker 3 (01:37:30):
Two weird for animation. But it depends on who's doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Yeah, and yeah, it depends on I guess the tone
that you're asking with.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
Yeah, I've worked in animation and sometimes you're like, well,
not for you, but sometimes you're like yeah, sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
Yeah. So she goes on to say, Chris just went
there as opposed to having to have conversations about, hey,
can you make a woman look like real women? So
it seems like Chris Anders just instinctive was just like,
I'm gonna like design a character who looks like a
human and not like a Barbie doll kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:38:08):
Yeah, and I love like her. I love her big
calves because that is a very common trait among Pacific
Islander women as well. We're not skinny, and a lot
of my Native Hawaiian friends and just Pacific Islander friends
in general, we talk about like how when we saw Nanny,
we like, we're like, oh my gosh, she's so beautiful.

(01:38:29):
She looks like us, Like we actually felt beautiful because
you know, growing up we were insecure about how we looked,
especially me. I went to like a predominantly like white school,
especially like East Asian school as well, and all the
girls there were tiny and skinny and short, and I
was like this tall, curvier, brown Hawaiian girl, and I

(01:38:50):
always felt like I was ugly and why couldn't I
look like them? So just having that representation, which they
also did the same with Muana as well, I really
appreciate how they animated her to be actually proportioned and
not have like a tiny neck and tiny waist and like,
I don't know, risks that look like they can like

(01:39:10):
snap off any moment of yeah, and just depicting like
how they look like. And it makes sense because Nanny
is a surfer. You know, she's not she's gonna be strong,
you know if you've seen the women's surfers here and
have II like they're they're strong, you know, they're muscular.

Speaker 3 (01:39:27):
Yeah, it's like and and the bar is still on
the floor for stuff like that, but I really like
it does. It makes a huge difference. And I'm very
glad that they just drew it's so wild to still
to be like and they drew people to look like people,
but it's still just barely done.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
It's like when a movie feels like a movie.

Speaker 3 (01:39:50):
Yes, and that, and then also the way that Nanny
is dressed I felt was more intentional than other than
other women Disney movies where we do I mean we
see her. I think the most like the quote unquote,
like the most sort of like revealing outfit she's in
is when she's working at the resort.

Speaker 4 (01:40:10):
Which makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Yeah, does the resort that caters to mostly white Yeah, vacations.

Speaker 4 (01:40:17):
They're very sexualized. They're even like the dancers again, like
I said, like they would wear like the tiny little
coconut bras or tiny little songs for their outfits, which
I'm like, first of all, coconut bras are not from Haaii,
that is not Hawaiian, but they still put them in
that anyways. But yeah, I really liked how she's dressed,

(01:40:41):
you know, in like shorts and a T shirt and
like boots, like she's active and knowing how hot it
gets here. It's like, yeah, I don't expect her to
wear like long sleeve you know, anything, because no one does.
I mean, I'm wearing it now, but it's cold in
my house. But like yeah, I'm wearing shorts though, but yeah,
it's very common. But yeah, like you said, like with
the exception of the the Luau uniform, like everything else

(01:41:04):
she wears is like pretty. It's it's nice seeing that
you're not like focused on her middriff or like her
i don't know, clavicles or something like the other characters
like Princess Jasmine. You have to remember she's like supposed
to be fifteen in that film, which.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
The way, yeah, we still have not gotten justice for
Princess Jasmine and that. But also the fact that she
is like she dresses in a way that is like logical,
it makes sense, and that her body not constantly being
fixated on doesn't preclude her from a romantic storyline, because

(01:41:43):
I feel like that's another thing that if there is
a in really and in live action rianimation, if like
usually a woman's body is not if the sexiness of
a woman's body is not had, like your eye isn't
constantly drawn to it, that's not a character that's going
to have a romantic dressed or a romantic plot line.
But Nanni, I like I think that again, it's like

(01:42:06):
and we can talk about the relationship as well we should.
But like the I appreciated that where it's like she
is quote unquote a normal girl in that like she
dresses in a way that makes sense, she's a job,
she has a lot of shit going on in her life,
and I I mean, I think that there were maybe
more interesting lines to fill out Nanni's story outside of

(01:42:30):
just kind of going straight to love interest. Like you're saying, Lily,
she has her surfing career. She is also actively warning
her parents. I think it would have made a lot
of sense to give Nanni a friend and someone to
talk to and confide in, but David also sort of
fills that role. It seems like, I don't know, let's
talk about that relationship because I'm like biased because I

(01:42:53):
love data, but you know, let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
Yeah. I appreciated how that unfold for the most part,
where he is like, first and foremost a friend and
yes he does have a crush on Nanny, but but.

Speaker 3 (01:43:08):
They talk on the phone at night. It's cute.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
Yeah, they like he's supportive, he seems to respect her
boundaries when he says like, hey, what are you doing
later and she's like, now, it's not a good time.
I have a lot on my plate, and he doesn't
try to push it. It doesn't seem like he holds
it against her that she can't date him right now. Anything.

Speaker 4 (01:43:29):
He tries to help her, like he's you know, he
finds a job for her, and he like you know,
helps her with taking care of Leelo as well, because
that's you know, like her priority is taking care of
her sister, and it takes a village to raise a kid.
So I think him just also like acting like kind
of like another adult and guardian figure in her life

(01:43:51):
is really helping nanny. And yeah, and he's doing this
because he genuinely like cares cares for her.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
Yeah, he does make it seems to be a joke
where after he's found her job, he says something like,
you can just date me and we'll call it even.
And it's not the best joke. And if someone said
that to me, I would probably feel uncomfortable if especially
if I didn't want to date them. But he's never
like predatory, which is like, wow, the bar is so

(01:44:19):
low for men's behavior, But it's.

Speaker 4 (01:44:23):
A good thing. She likes his button, fancy his bar.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
No, and he does know that, so it felt more teasy,
But still your Yeah, not the best line, but in general,
I loved the relationship and I like that he. I mean,
I'm always pro like, let's give her like a female friend,
Let's give her a best friend to like bounce it
off of, especially because it's like, not only are you
going through a lot, you're also nineteen and that's such

(01:44:49):
a critical friend time. But but I mean I like
that David, like you're saying Kulan like he is a
really good friend to her, and then it's like we're
seeing it turn into something more. And then they go
on a million vacations at the end of the movie,
and you're like, whoo, that's so nice.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
Here's my the I think you could if if you
wanted to read it that because it didn't even occur
to me that they got together on my first viewing,
because you.

Speaker 3 (01:45:18):
May I was like biased. I was like, whoo, I
love that they're together.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
Now, well, you only really see it in the like
still images there. Maybe I'd like stop the movie too soon,
and like as soon as the credit started.

Speaker 4 (01:45:30):
I think in the other films in the series they
kind of established their relationship more.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
Okay, right, that makes sense. Yeah, because I was like, oh,
I guess they do get together, because at first I
had written in my notes like, oh, you know, he's
like kind of presented as this possible love interest, but
it never culminates, which is like, you know, something that
I appreciate seeing as far as because I mean, in
most things where that's set up, it's definitely gonna culminate.

(01:45:59):
In like a head or love story, you need.

Speaker 4 (01:46:02):
To have the kiss at the end as the car
which rolls away.

Speaker 2 (01:46:05):
Exactly, which doesn't happen in this movie. And again the
only indication that they got together, but also maybe they
just go on a bunch of friendly vacations. I don't know,
it's not the most clear.

Speaker 3 (01:46:15):
But they're making out on vacation, and you know it fine. Yeah,
I appreciate Lila's like I read the diary.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
I know, at the very least, I appreciated that their relationship,
whether it be platonic or romantic or some combination of
the two, that it doesn't like overpower the story the
way that like a lot of hetero love interest narratives
will like, especially for Disney movies, like that's the core

(01:46:45):
focus of the story.

Speaker 3 (01:46:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's because we've been We've
been betrayed by so many movies in the past that
are about one thing for most of the movie, and
then in the last twenty minutes, all of a sudden
is about a relationship that you barely care about.

Speaker 4 (01:47:00):
And this is a little Mermaid.

Speaker 3 (01:47:02):
Yes, And it's like in this one, at least the
movie knows it's about Lelo and Nanny and Leelo and
Stitch and it stays there, which yeah, I was perfectly
happy with. And I love Leelo and Stitch. I love Stitch.
I love how we talked about this a little earlier.
But how Stitch, it's so like it's just so I

(01:47:26):
didn't recognize this when I was a kid. I was
just like he he blue dog funny. But but how
by knowing Stitch, Lelo is able to see herself in
a different way and like she's able to interact with
Stitch the way Nanni interacts with her, And she's frustrated

(01:47:47):
with Stitch in the same way that Nanni's frustrated with her,
but can come to him with a lot of empathy.

Speaker 4 (01:47:52):
Is this how I act like right.

Speaker 3 (01:47:57):
And and that she always I don't know, I'm just
like best kid ever where even when Stitch is like
tearing apart that weird. Like I did a Picasso joke
where she's like, that's from my blue period and I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:48:10):
Joel's I love that. When she immediately puts the lay
on Stitch, he like calms down and just kind of
I'm like, that is such a cool cultural tidbit to
put in there. Like lays do have like that calming
factor on them, and you give lay to people for
like a reason. It's like typically when you make it

(01:48:31):
or you like buy it that's been handmade, and you
give it to someone that you care about and you
want to give them that aloha. So I kind of
liked that. It's like this rampaging like alien that's destroying everything.
He puts on a fresh flower lay and then he's
just so calm. I'm like, dang, the power of the lay.
My cool was right.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
They're so like they're so good together, and I yeah,
and I love we were like referencing this early. But
so much of how Stitch learns to appreciate lelo is
through her sharing her culture with him. I just love
their relationship. It's very sweet and that he does unlike

(01:49:13):
most male characters throughout movies and also history. He does
apologize when he realizes that he has messed with the
family and wants to make it right. I like that
he and Nanny even get a moment together.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
Okay, she like, waks, I love.

Speaker 3 (01:49:34):
I know you can't talk, and then he says one
word and then she freaks out something. It's so great.

Speaker 4 (01:49:44):
She was like, we had a weird relationship. I still
don't know how to feel about you, but you rescued
my sister, so I guess we're okay. Just don't But
it's kind of cute because I remember also in the
kind of the ending sequence of the movie, when you
know they're adjusting to their new life in the new house, which,
by the way, that new house is beautiful, is definitely
worth like two million dollars in our standards. I'm like,

(01:50:06):
how did how does she afford that? Hopefully the aliens
help pay for it, but.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
The property tax is alone.

Speaker 4 (01:50:12):
Yeah, He's like doing the laundry and then he puts
on I think, like a bikini talk care and just
starts like going around as a superman, and she's looking
down at him, like what are you doing. I'm like,
She's like, I have another damn child, I have to
take care of.

Speaker 2 (01:50:27):
It's great.

Speaker 3 (01:50:28):
Cleilo and Stitch are the best best friends in all
of movies.

Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
One of my favorite jokes in the movie is when
Nanny is saying, oh, the thing's creepy. I won't be
able to sleep knowing it's loose in the house, and
then Leelo says, you're loose in the house all the time,
and I sleep just fine. Oh that's great. Does anyone
have anything else they want to talk about?

Speaker 3 (01:50:54):
This is a very goofy observation, but I was thinking
about movies that because they're not a lot of movies
that feature adoption or the foster care system. And this
is the worst comparison of all time, But because we
just covered it on the show, there are parallels between
meg Leelan, Stitch, and Megan. It's just true. It's just true.

(01:51:15):
But Stitch is fortunately he's rehabilitated. He doesn't go full Megan.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't kill anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:51:22):
Is Megan that movie about that robot girl that danceing
and yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:51:31):
Yes, the TikTok robot Girl. Stitch and Meghan have basically
the exact opposite arc where like Megan starts off like
creepy but not super threatening, but then she gets scarier
and scarier and more murdery as she goes, whereas Stitch
starts out very destructive and then becomes less and less
so by the end.

Speaker 3 (01:51:51):
Yes, I could talk about Leelu and Stitch's friendship and
how beautiful it is forever. I love the scene where
Stitch shows I don't know. It's like the idea of
showing yourself to someone and like trusting them enough to
show yourself, and Stitches like, here's my alien stuff in
all my extra arms and she's like what, and then
later she's like, I love you. It's just because all

(01:52:14):
she wants is to be accepted and that's what Stitch wants.

Speaker 4 (01:52:16):
And she doesn't care that he's an alien. She just
cared that he like lied to her about it. It
just shows like just how accepting she is and she
doesn't care. I want to talk about the A Little
Oi scene where Nunny is singing that to lil I.
Every single time I rewatched this film, I know that

(01:52:36):
scene is about to come up, I know what's going
to happen, and I still cry every time. I'm like
an emotional little ball of just like sadness and all that.
Like right as like Stitch is walking up the stairs
and the ducks are coming out, I was like, oh God,
here comes the water works. And then she has to
like tell her sister that I can't take care of

(01:52:58):
you anymore, and you're probably going to be taken away
to like a family, whether it be on this island
or who knows, she might have to go to like
a different island because you know, foster kids get moved
around so much. And just her singing like a lotta
oi to her, like just the symbolism because first that
song was written by Queen Lilli o'koleni. She was a composer.

(01:53:19):
She's composed many songs, especially when she was under house
arrest after the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom. She was
writing songs in the basement of the Lani Palace. She
first wrote alho Oi as a song for her like
lover and stuff and just dedicated to him and like
moments where they would be together riding horses in the

(01:53:40):
country and all that. But then the song gets recontextualized
during the overthrow and the forced American annexation assimilation, and
then later statehood. It gets recontextualized for Lilli Okoleni saying
farewell to her kingdom, and then in this movie it
gets recontextualized of her say that farewell to you alohoa

(01:54:01):
way like farewell to you until we meet again, and God,
it's just so sad and it just makes me think,
I think Lilo knows kind of what's going on, because
that's how they communicate, is through their culture. And I
just loved that touch they put there because that is
kind of the purpose. That is the purpose of our hula.

(01:54:23):
That's the purpose of our music is to like, it's communication,
it's oral traditions and storytelling. We have olo no ao
like Hawaiian proverbs. That's how a lot of us, like
we communicate with each other. She doesn't straight up tell
her like you're being taken away from me, it's she
just sings that to her, and I think that just

(01:54:44):
clearly tells the message. And I was surprised that Stitch
to it too. I was like, Oh, has he been reading.

Speaker 2 (01:54:49):
The Queen's book?

Speaker 4 (01:54:50):
Does he does.

Speaker 2 (01:54:52):
With the brain of a supercomputer?

Speaker 4 (01:54:54):
He is a super Yeah, he probably does. Yeah, But
it's just every time I watch that scene, I cry,
and I'm like, I know it's coming up, but why
do I keep crying?

Speaker 2 (01:55:04):
That's the beauty of cinema.

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
I also I read that or maybe it was in
the documentary, but that was allegedly that was Tia Carrera's
idea to put that song there, because she and her
grandmother used to sing it together, and that that place
in a way that you're like, oh, it's a Disney movie.
Of course they were going to do that. They were
going to put some like weird original song in there.
And then when Tia Carrera read the script this like

(01:55:29):
came out years later. She was like, well, I think
this would actually fit much better, and this is a
song I would sing with my grandmother. And then when
she was in the recording booths, she called her grandma
to make sure she was getting the words right, and
it was just like a family moment. That was very sweet.

Speaker 4 (01:55:44):
I'm glad that they let her do that. I'm surprised
they weren't like, now, we are the Disney overlords. We
choose what goes on. You can't now, but good choice
on them, because I can't imagine any other song put
in there. And she does a beutiful job she's an
amazing singer.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
And yeah, definitely the last thing I wanted to touch
on real quick, kind of back to the conversation about
bodies was related to Lelo's photography collection, because she seems
to take pictures of white people who are in Hawaii

(01:56:24):
on vacation, as if to say, like, these outsiders are
coming to my home, like treating my home as a
tourist spot, probably not respecting the culture or the land.
Because there are so many accounts of that happening unfortunately,
So that's all very valid, but there is this like

(01:56:46):
fat shamy element to it because it seems like all
the people she takes photos of are fat. It's not
directly said in the movie, but the implication feels like
it's shaming these people for various things, including their bodies
and their size. But other than that, there weren't any

(01:57:08):
like well, I guess there's one other. I felt kind
of ageist tropes being used with a character who only
shows up in a really quick scene, Missus, because she's
an old woman who is portrayed as being like oblivious,
she doesn't really understand what's going on around her, who,

(01:57:29):
by the way, is voiced by Amy Hill. Who he
talked about recently on the fifty first Dates episode. Because
she plays Sue, She's also been cast in the live
action remake.

Speaker 4 (01:57:44):
Oh yeah, I think she's playing Tou Tou or something.

Speaker 2 (01:57:47):
Yes, who is the grandmother of David according to early
journal Wikipedia, so.

Speaker 4 (01:57:54):
They kind of have new characters in there. Yeah, I
can understand the criticism of Missus hasse Gaua's depiction. I
will say though, like I know a lot of Missus
hasse Gauas and a lot of people here know, like
we all have that one like old Grandma or Auntie
and her family that you have to kind of yell
at them because they can't hear what you're saying. And

(01:58:16):
so I mean from again, from my perspective, just born
and raised here, growing up here, I saw it as like, oh,
that's funny because we all know that one Auntie who's
like that, and it's kind of like more endearing. But
I can also see the criticism of just like her
kind of being like the butt of the joke because
you know, because you know who knows she's you know,

(01:58:36):
these even though they can't hear very well, you know,
they have a lot of experience and a lot of
knowledge in them. And yeah, I do feel that because
I always laughed.

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
At her scene.

Speaker 4 (01:58:48):
She's like, what, I can't talk, I'm waiting for the application.
Oh that's my that's my ad in the newspaper. It's like, yes,
that's why I'm here.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
It is funny, but yeah, yeah, it's open to interpretation perhaps, Yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (01:59:07):
Does this is kind of this? I love that this
is a no brainer. Does this maybe pass the Bechdel test?

Speaker 4 (01:59:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:59:13):
Yes, like for I think the better. I mean, I
guess that the main passes are between nney and and Lilo,
but there's plenty of conversations between I mean even they
don't have to be positive interactions. It passes between Myrtle
and Leelo. It passes between I'm trying to think of

(01:59:34):
other combinations that there might.

Speaker 4 (01:59:36):
I guess Sunny and that beautiful lifeguard when she was
trying to get the job. Yes, yes, yes, yeah they would.
They would have been good friends. I think they do
have interactions in like the series or some I have
to rewatch the series.

Speaker 3 (01:59:49):
But I haven't watched it forever, but I loved it.
It was like after School Staple, the only other main
character who's a who's not a man in the story
is the person in charge of space.

Speaker 2 (02:00:06):
Oh, the Grand councilwoman.

Speaker 3 (02:00:09):
And I also just wanted to shout out every I
see this on Twitter every so often, just images of
Plekly disguised on Earth, because normally they're like disguised as
a like hetero turist married couple and Pleckly, you know,
uses he hymn pronouns, but is dressed in drag for
those scenes, and he goes viral pretty often being you know,

(02:00:33):
being praised as an icon. And I just wanted to
shout out and agree with that.

Speaker 4 (02:00:40):
Yeah, he knows that he's a baddie. He's gonna rock
that out. He's like, gone to You're not not was
his name again? Not gone to.

Speaker 3 (02:00:49):
Jama.

Speaker 4 (02:00:50):
Look at me mixing up the names. But I'm like,
he's like, Drama, you are not wearing that dress. It
looks better on me. You wear the mustache, you wear
the old dad hat. You're gonna be that I'm going
to be the star.

Speaker 3 (02:01:03):
And it seems like I'm like, Wow, I think that
they're kind of together by the end of the movie,
although jump On must pay for his crimes, but yes,
but also I just I love when characters are in
are in drag or just like not wearing gender nonconforming clothing,
and it's not like super like what is happening, Like

(02:01:26):
that's just a part of the story and that's I
think what it holds up.

Speaker 4 (02:01:29):
Yeah, the other characters like don't care at all. They're
just like okay, they're they're.

Speaker 2 (02:01:33):
They're they're like you do you exactly plekly.

Speaker 3 (02:01:36):
I love it and pletely is going to do pletely
whether you like it or not.

Speaker 4 (02:01:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:42):
Okay, So our nipple scale, where we rate the movie
on a scale of zero two five nipples based on
examining the film through an intersectional feminist lens, I will
give this four nipples. I'm taking a little bit off
for mostly just like the kind of behind the scenes things,

(02:02:07):
like the kind of missteps in casting, the insistence of
all of these white men who are like, yeah, I
acknowledge that this is not my story to tell, but
I'm gonna do it anyway.

Speaker 3 (02:02:22):
Yeah, and the fact that those same I mean, I'm
pretty sure that like all these guys are still alive,
kicking and working, and like if you did feel genuine
like it was wrong of me to take that project
on or even take that project on solo without being
more inclusive. Then you would think that would be the
sort of person you would want to speak out against

(02:02:43):
another white guy directing the newly lowed Stitch, like demonstrate
it with your actions and not just like trying to
sound good in an interview. I hate that, Genni.

Speaker 2 (02:02:53):
Okay, people are so bad at holding themselves accountable.

Speaker 3 (02:02:57):
They're liars anyways.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
So yeah, I mean, there was just and it does
seem like the filmmakers did a fair amount of research
and wanted to be careful about representing the people and
the culture authentically, and it seems by and large they
were successful. You know, Lily, you pointed out some things

(02:03:20):
that did not feel authentic, or that felt a bit
cartoonish or exaggerated or just incorrect in general. So as complicated,
I mean, you know, they put in some effort, but
not enough, because if they actually put in the right
amount of effort, they would have relinquished creative control and

(02:03:41):
hired Native Hawaiian directors, screenwriters, composers, costume designers. Yeah, exactly.
But otherwise, like the movies is lovely. It's featuring characters
who I love their relationship. I love that they are
just like such fully fleshed out, distinct characters. The movie examines,

(02:04:07):
you know, them dealing with issues that a lot of
Native Hawaiian people and marginalized people in general deal with,
while also again like showing the joy and the love
not just kind of you know, negative struggling aspects of
their life, but also like the positive, loving parts of

(02:04:29):
their lives as well. And so yeah, I'll give it
four nipples. I will give Tuta, Lilo and Tudor Nanny
as simple as that.

Speaker 3 (02:04:40):
I'll meet you at four nipples. I agree with everything
you're saying. Yeah, I think that this movie made many
mistakes that I don't mean it just sound like it's
dismissal by saying like it is extremely of its time,
and the fact that this movie is doing above average
in terms of research for being of its time speaks
poorly of that time time. And I think that it

(02:05:03):
is extremely frustrating that I mean necessary, but still frustrating
that these conversations are so similar to what they were
in two thousand and two, and that the same poor
decision making that's like, I mean, just institutionally white supremacist
driven decision making is still taking place at the same company,

(02:05:25):
even though the company seems like they have a supposedly
vested interest in not fucking up to the extent that
they seem to constantly fuck up. It's almost like it's disingenuous.

Speaker 2 (02:05:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:05:37):
I would love for the new Lulo and Stitch live
action movie to be good. I guess we'll see what happens. Yeah,
I guess we'll just leave it at that. But originallylo
and Stitch, it's it certainly has its issues. I'm very
I'm so glad you were here, Lily. I like, we're
huge fans of your work, and I us like we've
learned so much from you, and I highly recommend all

(02:06:01):
of our listeners check out your work as well because
it's also very funny. I really enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (02:06:06):
Thank you. I was happy to hear that your viewers
wanted me on this podcast. I was like, oh wow,
that's so cool.

Speaker 3 (02:06:14):
People know me number one suggestion truly, and we're krusty
and we're not on TikTok very much, so we were like,
oh great, and then we found your work and we're like, well, like,
you're just.

Speaker 4 (02:06:25):
Zing always on TikTok. I don't know how I'm getting
my Masters. With the amount of time I spent on it,
I had to like I had to like put my
phone down and just be like, Nope, got to do
my thesis. You can scro You'll have plenty, You'll have
the rest of your life after you graduate to scroll
on TikTok.

Speaker 3 (02:06:42):
It's that's the beauty of it can confirm. But but yeah,
I mean I but but I'll give it four because
there are things that this boofy does that still really
I think resonate the focus on sisterhood, prioritizing we didn't
really talk about this, but prioritizing like a young girl

(02:07:02):
like figuring out how she sees herself. And I love
that she. The two relationships are with a sister and
then a friend.

Speaker 2 (02:07:10):
I just love them, both of whom are very supportive
in the way that Leelo wants to express herself exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:07:17):
You're like, this is a beautiful family. Okay, So I'm
not crying, and I'm going to give two nipples to
Lilo because she's just the MVP, and then I'll give
one to Nanny and one to stitch nice Lily.

Speaker 2 (02:07:32):
How about you.

Speaker 4 (02:07:34):
I agree with you, guys. I give four chee cheese
to Lilo and Stitch as well. And yeah, I'll give
one to Lilo, one to Nanny, one to missus Hasegau,
and give one to David because we all need a David.
We all need that supportive friend.

Speaker 2 (02:07:53):
Fancy hair.

Speaker 3 (02:07:55):
Yes, maybe we all have that supportive a friend with
good butt and good hair. What a beautiful thing, Jamie,
I'm right here. Oh sorry that that Caitlin is that
friend for me. And that's why I'm going to tell
you on the show. I'm in love with you.

Speaker 2 (02:08:13):
Right, I keep forgetting that they get together at the
end anyway, So who knows, Jamie, anything could happen like
never say never. Well, Lily, thank you so much for
joining us. This has been an absolute treat. Come back
anytime for any movie you'd like to discuss. Yeah, bring
us far movies A yeah, and where can people follow
you online? Check out your work?

Speaker 4 (02:08:35):
You guys can find me on TikTok at. He E
Lily Lunney. So that's h I I l I l
y l A n I. So it's like a combination
of my Hawaiian name he E Lenny and my English
name Lily. So he E Lily Lenny. My friend Crystal
came up with that, so I just kind of went
along with it. I think it's cute. I'm also on
Instagram at Eluney Lily because I don't know why didn't that,

(02:09:01):
but yeah, I'm very active on those two social media accounts. Yeah,
so you can find me on there. And also if
you want to see some of my acting work, look
up the University of Haama Hawaii Theater program Kahala Hanakayaka.
There's a couple of YouTube videos of some Hawaii theater

(02:09:22):
shows that I did. It's one of them is called
hey leo Aloha h e l e oh aloha, and
then there's whole Oilina so h okina oh i l
i n a Yes I can spell. So yeah, where
you can see some of my acting work, and you
can also watch theater made by native Hawaiians for native

(02:09:43):
Hawaiians also in our language.

Speaker 2 (02:09:46):
Yeah amazing, And we'll link that stuff as well on
our social media and stuff so that people can easily
find it. And yeah, you can find us on Instagram
and Twitter at Bechdel Cast I almost said my own name,
oops at Bechdel Cast. And you can subscribe to our

(02:10:10):
Matreon at Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you
get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access to
the back catalog of over one hundred bonus episodes. This
month is May, so we have done Back to the
Future and Office Space because those were my birthday month picks.

Speaker 3 (02:10:32):
And that's why I had Megan on the brain, because
we did Megan and Life Size in April with dolls
that are doing too much month. It's what I'm calling you,
Lifeline life Size is so good. Yes, And you can
get our merch over at tea public dot com slash
the Bechdel Cast. And with that, let's get in the

(02:10:57):
space tic tac and uh and and something something blessed
off got a blass that's mean.

Speaker 2 (02:11:07):
Wow, amazing, dismount. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:11:10):
I'm sick, Bye bye, Helloha

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Lilo and Stitch with Lily Hi'ilani Okimura