Lion King (1994) with Naomi Ekperigin

Oh we just can't wait to be (tal)king about The Lion King (1994) with special guest Naomi Ekperigin!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and
welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dronte
and he's Jamie Loftiz. And here we are talking about

(00:22):
women in film once again. Wow, brave of us, honestly,
so brave, incredible. We should get awards. We got one
once oh yeah, that Female Comedy Award for Yeah. So
it's about damn time we have another one here that
wyah demand it anyway, So we talk about the representation

(00:44):
of women in movies, using the Bechtel test as a
way to initiate a larger conversation. Jamie, what's the Bechtel Test? Oh,
I'll tell you. I'm sorry, I was just burping off. Um,
I will tell you. The Bechtel test is a medium
match invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires of

(01:05):
a piece of media that there be two female identifying
characters who talk to each other about something other than
a man. They also need to have names. It is
also sometimes called the back to Wallace test because it
was a collaborative effort. How do I do? That? Was incredible?
I honestly was just holding on second Purp that whole time.
And if you could just take it away, I'm going
to take care of that. Sure. So today an anticipation,

(01:30):
thank you, an anticipation of the upcoming live action remake
of Disney's The Lion King. We are talking about The
Lion King. Blankang there. God. I mean, Disney is evil enough,
but the fact that they're making us cover every single
one of their fucking movies as a part of their
sinister world takeover scheme, I resent it. It's tiring. I

(01:54):
am excited to see this movie. I will be seeing it.
I haven't seen any of the live remakes in theaters,
but this is the one. I'm a loser. They're nice
because you have Amcy Stubbs there, but this, this, I
think is the one that's going to break me because
I love the link ship. So let's talk about the

(02:14):
one from nine and here to join us in that conversation,
We've got comedian actor co host of Couples Therapy podcasts,
and you know her from our when Harry Met Sally
episode and our Black Panther episode time. Yes, it's Naomi
comparagon and welcome. So you are making history right now

(02:37):
on the Bechtel Cast as our first ever three time guest. However,
this is the first time that it's just the three
of us all at once talking together. Because the first time,
if you recall for when Harry met Sally, I wasn't.
Jennie was on presidence. It's just you and I and
in the Mike's Hard Lemonade you drink in her honor,
that was I feel like a presence. I felt like

(02:59):
I was there. You were embodied in that Mike's Hard lemonade. Yes, yes,
And then the second time Jamie and I were both president,
but so was if you wadi Way was talking about
Black Panther with all of us history making anyways, so
welcome back. Thanks for being here so much for having,
of course, for Disney's first black film. We'll tell us

(03:22):
about your history in relationship with the Lion King. Well,
I do recall seeing The Lion King in the movie theaters.
What was that? I would have been ten. I would
have been ten prime time I saw it, and I
saw it with my cousin and the probably aunt took
us and I was like, did it come out over
the summer April? Okay, So we saw it together and

(03:44):
I remember my cousin who was um. She was always
like a cool tough girl, you know, and I remember her.
She cried during the Lion King and I was like,
and she was like, somebody's like. I was like, this
movie got us all. Wait it says jun Sorry, I
was looking at the soundtrack. Never mind that came out

(04:07):
so we can all get cromed. Because I started it
was like full of bops watching it was like single
soundtrack is and it's like all the most of the
songs are in the first half of the movie and
then there's not many songs in the second half this movie.
We're watching it back, You're like, there's some weird tone
ship going on, but I'm here for it. There's like

(04:28):
in the final battle scene, it's like timon and drag
cut to murder scene, cut to Rafiki is a ninja
cut to murder scene. Like it's so wild, totally inconsistent,
but I love it. Paste a little funky as well,
pasteball funky as well. I felt like in rewatching again
obviously at the age ten, I wasn't sitting here being like, wow,

(04:49):
these total shifts, but it did feel like, you know,
watching it grown, I was like, really, you've got thirty
minutes before it really pops off. And then everything happened
real fast, and they basically used two musical numbers to
cover the space of like ten years one of them right,
and then they use the other one to cover like romance,

(05:10):
like in the space of one song. Okay, I guess there, Okay,
I definitely have sex. There is a in the like
I like, I remember that. So that shot of Nala
being like sexy it's in the grass and she's like
I was like, how did they fake this lion look

(05:33):
like a coquette? You know what I mean? This is
you can tell this is a male dominated production for
many reasons. But the lion fucked me as is like
ship It's insane. That is that is I'm literally blown away,
Like I was like, how did they? And I just like,
we gotta get an animator on the horn. We gotta

(05:53):
figure out what that brainstorm this what's the brainstorming conversation?
It's like, how do I convey horny nos in this
lion's eyes and then what is the art technique? And
it creates the centrality and I was like watching there.
They released it on DVD at some point with a
ton of like extra features and some of them are

(06:14):
on YouTube, and like the animators really really studied animals
to be able to like animate them. So I'm like,
did they get a lion horny? Like is that based
on did they watch lions have sex? And they're like,
this is actually not gross, this is actually really helpful
for my job. Well, you know, they did legit go
to Africa, they went to Kenyan, was like, Okay, what's
going on here, Let's get boots on the ground. And

(06:36):
I believe part of that was watching animals fuck and
being like this is productive, guys, Yeah, this is actually
for art. Just the camera. They tell h R they're
taking the day off, but they're actually going to watch
animals have sex. What a messy? So in theaters did

(06:57):
you watch it much after that? Or is that like
the only time. I feel like I must have seen
it a couple of times after that, But that might
have been my peak of Disney, you know what I mean,
Like ten eleven years old, that's when I'm watching all
that stuff and I like them all and then I
kind of age outing, So that was so definitely. Lion
King from me is probably like the peak Disney when

(07:19):
that drone was amazing. Yes, Jamie, what about you? What's
your relationship? Oh? Man, I love this movie very much.
I might have. I think I was too young to
see it in the theaters. I was just one when
I came up there. When were you born? Was born
in August two? Okay, I have to go. I did
not sign up to doctor someone who didn't see Clue

(07:40):
listen to theaters. Originally, that's my rule for all human interaction.
You did not see Clu, listen to the theaters, I
can't with you. I might have. Might my mom went
and left me on the floor. She didn't do that.
She did that a few times, and I was a kid.
There's like a rated like PG thirteen or our movie,
and she'd bring me and then she'd just be like
here you go, and that I would just like sit

(08:00):
on the floor and listen. She definitely I think it
was the wedding planner that I remember sitting on the
floor and hearing but not being able to watch. Uh.
But I mean, I've seen this movie easily a hundred times.
Like we my mom ran a daycare out of our
house and so there was a VHS in at all times,

(08:22):
and like, this is a crowd pleaser. You can shut
up a house full of kids by turning on the
Lion King. Yeah, I loved it. We had I remember,
between me and my all of my cousins, they were
like McDonald's toys and they're like a little Finger puppets,
and everyone was allowed to go to McDonald's once a
week and we were trying to like crowdsource the full
set and I don't know, I just love it so much.

(08:44):
Sing along tapes we had, like those didn't even have
those Disney sing along Disney joints. Loved about Little Cricket. Yeah,
Gott and he'd be like, let's sing Lion King again.
And then my mom was like, cool, I'm going to bed. Um. Yeah,
I love this movie and and watching it back. What
what is interesting to me now is like the production

(09:06):
history of this movie, because it's like, I don't know,
it is genuinely hard for me to get excited about
these live action remakes just seeing them, but the production
aspects and like the stuff that they're updating and the
stuff they're not, and like that is interesting to me.
So like finding out about the history of this a
little bit was was cool. But man, Lion King Knight

(09:27):
forms the world to me, I love it so much
the same same. I was eight when it came out.
I think I probably saw it in the theater, promptly
got it on VHS, saw it probably eighty times throughout
my childhood. Yeah, I love it a whole lot, but
this is one of the ones that I haven't seen
that recently. It's probably been a good ten or more

(09:47):
years since I watched it. He was reminded when rewatching it.
The Stampede sequence is so visually just cinematically incredible, like
the music and the visuals and the animation and just
the emotion and oh my, it's I'm gonna cry, but
it's yeah, I'm so good. I mean we also just

(10:10):
like the opening, and rewatching totally forgot. I was like,
oh my god, nobody speaks for about four and a
half to five in that first three minutes, like just
literally setting a scene like Disney was like we in Africa, bitch,
you know what I mean? Honestly, how much the Black
panther take from Lion. We'll talk about that later, but

(10:31):
but it was like like they just really take like
hear all the animals, here are them coming across the
plane to this big moment, you know what I mean.
Like it just thought they took their time with setting
the scene in a way that maybe now because we're
so used to animated ship and everything is animated all
the time now, that like you don't need to do that.

(10:52):
But it just had the very like a there's a
majestic quality, a grandeur to it that I felt they
really leaned into. It's beautiful and it feels like one
of those like a movie that takes a very young
audience seriously and they're like, oh, kids will be able
to handle this, because I feel like they're like, it's
the animals. Kids like animals. But it is it's like
this beautiful grand set up in the animation in this movie.

(11:13):
For all of the criticisms I'm sure we all have,
is so beautiful and like I get I cry at
the beginning. I was crying the whole way through when
I watched it by myself, I was it really I mean,
it's a lot and like and the fact that This
is like the the movie that basically a whole generation
of kids learned about the concept of death from Whore,

(11:35):
like learned how to rationalize it if they had already
experienced it is like hoof, it's I can't I can't
think about Mufasa without crying, Like Disney off up. It's
like because they're always killing a parent, you know what
I mean, It's like always like either if not usually
the mom is already dead. That's either the background is

(11:55):
a dead mom or the insding incident is a dead parent.
But something about Mufassa and I was like, how dare
this one? I can't allow? This is one I can't
take the Shakespearean gravet talk. I mean, you know it's
a lot, don't you love they did to They're like, yeah,
why don't we just do like an African animal version
of Hamlet? Like would that be a little bit? There's Oh,

(12:19):
I can't wait to talk about the development of this
movie because Disney is evil always and so they're they're
just they love to steal and not give proper credit.
But I mean it is like the elements of Hamlet
that this movie uses. You're just like, why why did
you do that, but it's so good. But then we
get Rose and Cranson guilded Stern. The movie gets so

(12:45):
silly in the middle for like twenty minutes, and you're
just like, oh, this is great. We're like where all
of a sudden, we're in the rainforest. We're a totally
different climate. It's unclear how close the rainforest is to Pride,
for you were joking it might be like mile away,
because I think I was dead right. They think he
did right. But then but then at the same time,
not it got to him. So she was doing her

(13:07):
regular hunting and came upon them that I don't know, well,
I don't know, you know, I figure it out. Well,
today that's what we're doing here. Today, we're figuring it out. Okay,
So I'll do the recap of the film. Okay, So

(13:29):
we are somewhere in Africa where exactly unclear the African part.
We learn about the circle of life through a song
and all the visuals that Nami was describing. We also
learned about what do they call it when there's a
king and a queen, a monarchy. We also learned about monarchy.

(13:52):
We see a baby lion cub that has just been
born and that's symbol RAFFII, who everyone thinks, including the movie,
is a bad boon but is actually a man. Drill
holds him up to the sky his baby Simba Cub
and the light shines on r and his parents, Mufasa

(14:16):
and Sarabi are so proud. Then we flashed forward to
sometime later when Simba is a little bit older as
a kid. Now he's Jonathan Taylor, Thomas Darling, Yes Darling,
his uncle Scar, voiced by Jeremy Irons giving you high Camp.

(14:37):
Oh my god, the met Gala. Jeremy Irons. We were
talking about this where Caitlyn and I watched it last
night and we were I wish that, like every animated
project had like Bob's Burger's Rules, where everyone has to
be in the room recording together at the same time,

(14:58):
because I just want a video CEO of James Earl
Jones and Jeremy Irons yelling at each other. I don't
want them in different rooms, right, I'm pawing at each other.
So Uncle Scar is mean, he's jealous of Mufasa because
Mufasa is king and Scar isn't. He's and yeah, Scars

(15:22):
like he's he's slinkier. He's also darker, darker right on
the lot of coding happening with Disney villains including Scar. Yes,
we'll talk about that big queer coat in Comba to
be for sure. So Mufasa tells his son's Simba that

(15:44):
he's going to be king someday, and he tells Simba
about their kingdom and he will rule everything but this
shadowy area off in the distance. And then Simba finds
out from Scar that that place is an elephant graveyard
where the hyenas, where the hyenas live, and then Scar
kind of subtly coaxes Simba to go there. So Simba

(16:08):
sings a song about how he just can't wait to
be kings. Yes, and that's not Jonathan Taylor Thomas singing,
it's the older black. That's a black person. Don't get
me started what they do in this movie. And then
Simba and his best friend Nala go to the elephant graveyard,

(16:29):
but they are chased by three hyenas, who we learned
that Scar had sent to kill Simba. Mufassa shows up
and saved them, and Foss is like, Simba, you freaking idiot,
You put yourself in danger. You put Nala in danger.
You do it at James Earl Drones voice starting with

(16:50):
you freaking idiot, you freaking idiot. That's why he's the
only original cast member back baby, when you got it,
you got it? Yeah. Jerry Irons is twirling his mustache
and fury somewhere. So Simba's all sad because he messed

(17:14):
up to bed and now Scar has to figure out
a new plan to get rid of Simba, and he
sings what I think is the best song of the
movie about being prepared to introduce the third Reich into
his led to the community. Big Lenny Reef install vibes. Also,

(17:35):
I'm sorry, way too long with a song, maybe because
I don't like Scar. I was like, I think you
can pull it back, sweetie. I just think it should
go on longer. Oh my god, it should last the
length of titanicly hours and fourteen minutes. Green Fog, I
love it. So he decides to have the hyenas cause

(17:59):
a will to Best stampede, which Simba gets trapped in
the middle of and then Fossa has to go and
save him, which he does, but then as mufass is
trying to get back to safety, Scar sort of launches
Mufassa back into the stampede and kills him, and then
we all children learn that life is not fair. Yeah's

(18:20):
the most sobering moment of your childhood is when Scar
sinks his fucking claws and muf and he goes that
key and you're like, Jerry ares no, he throws him off.
It's and then the stampede moves on and Simba's looking

(18:41):
all around and we we know what's happening, and but
Simba's finds Mufassa and then he crawls under his big
pack and we are crying. It's really sad, and the
Scar comes up and he's like, Simba, if it weren't
for you, your father still be alive. We learned about
death and gaslight back to back a lot, and he's

(19:05):
like he makes Simba think that Foster's death with Simba's fault,
and he's like, your mom is going to hate you.
Everyone hates you now, so you just should run away
and never return. What do you think Simba's like eight Yeah,
at this point he's like a decade and then he
liked it becomes at eighteen year old. I think he
comes back with big college freshman energy. He's like, I'm back.

(19:30):
He's like coming back for thanksging like I'm a vegan.
Now I've studied abroad. I took a soology and I
feel ready to do because it's really eliminating. I was
raised by my two gay uncles and now I'm very cultured.
It literally came back after a semester at Oberlin, like
he's back. So Simba does run away and he is

(19:54):
found by Tomone and Pumba, a mere cat and a
wart hot. Now it gets fun. It's fun, really silly
for a while there's watching. It is kind of fun
because it is. I didn't realize what a major relief
it is. Went to Morrow and Pumba show up, but
you're just like an emotional rack and then you're like,
oh it's Nathan Lane. We're safe. Also Nathan Lane and
Matthew Broderick performing alongside each other in this and then

(20:17):
later in the Producers, I will say I have my
thoughts about Matthew Roderick in this role. I tell you
right now, I'm excited. I'm not I'm not married to
Matthew Roderick in this role at all. Yeah, I think
it should have been Alfred Molina. They're right. There's a
few vocal performances that I'm very attached to some studie

(20:41):
I mean really yeah, like James Earl Jones and like
Jeremy Irons, Black Nala serving Black Nala, the attitude, the
spunk givermore dialogue was that when I got into JTJ.
When I saw him love a black and looking back,

(21:01):
I mean I did love him, and now I'm looking back,
he was rough and tumble his sister and I am
a little attached to Mr Bean as Zazu. But I
think that John Oliver is a good stand in for
Mr Bean basically our generations, Mr Bean, maybe we'll see
what John oiveror does. John Oliver is goofy to me,

(21:23):
but it still feels like a restrained goofy. No, it
is an Areo died goof Do you see the goof
I'm doing? Whereas I think we all know Mr Bean,
I mean caution to the wind. Mr Bean has no
self respect. He's he's chaos, really and the way and
he and it comes out in Zaze. I think Zazo

(21:44):
is his most restrained role that he's ever done. So
I don't know, really funny, Okay, if you had to
choose Disney Birds. Are we going with Yaga? Are we
going with Zazo? I don't really don't. Boy is far
too grating, and I'm the first one to say that
you're welcome everybody. Caitlin coming through with hot taps, gilt voice,

(22:09):
I'm tea Iago And now I'm wondering. I'm like, is
that a Shakespearean reference to like they I don't know that, yeah,
because they're yeah, They're like, we're actually a little better
than your average cartoon, and I'm like, no, you're usually
stealing from sall like it stuff you can steal, but
it's like in the public domain, it's like stuff you
can steal from anything that they would have to pay

(22:32):
for it. Their like coincidence. Okay, tell us all the time. Okay,
this is a classic family drama. It is not okay,
so um Toman and Pumba tell Simba, hey, don't worry
about your past. Tokuna matata means no worries. There's that
greatest greatest song slash Montage Walk across the damn log

(22:52):
Age ten years I'm brilliant. That makes me tear That
made me. That makes me tear up a little bit too. Can.
My don't know. I think it's because my mom is crazy,
and she'd be like, that's wow, I feel about you
that She's like, you're growing up so fast. So it's
like the log, like, okay, my mom felt strongly about

(23:16):
the log. We had a framed My mom was really
into like putting framed Disney prints on credit cards, which
would later prevent us to go from going to college.
But she was really into purchasing framed Disney prints for
a while, and we had a picture of the log
in our house. Well, it's on that log that he
turns into the carefree adult that is not concerned with

(23:40):
his paths anymore, or at least not on a conscious
level of compartmentalize. Oh yeah, he needs some serious therapy,
that Simba. But he's an adult now. Then knowledge shows
up and she's like, oh my god, Simba, you're alive.
Holy sh it, you need to come back to Pride
Rock because Scar the hyenas have taken over and they've

(24:02):
ruined everything. She's like, Eve been gone ten years. It's
Nazi Germany. Now there is no water, the e p
A has been dismantled, and the environment has been Rock
is flitt and we need you back, we need you back,
not to keep poking the plot holes in there. But
it's like prod Rock doesn't have water, weird to believe.

(24:22):
It's sort of kind of nearby, and Simba's over here
with a lake and it's so much grub, so much food. Yeah, yeah,
confusing a lot of greenery. Maybe that's a weird scar
roll of don't go to the very nearby lake, probably,
And then Simba's like, I can't go back. My feelings
hurt too much. But I don't know how to talk

(24:43):
about that. I don't deserve to go back. I don't
deserve to go like he's doing a lot of that.
I don't think Broderick was too old for this. Sorry,
I haven't even got still still like Broderick, you know,
we want to think you so boyish, you know he
had is that boyish? I think he rode that boyish
wave well into his fifties, like and he's probably like

(25:07):
thirty something, but it's like a little too I don't know.
He is Steff White, you know. And when it comes
to vocal again, you gotta be coming through irons camp
drum off at all, and um, it felt like Matthew
Broderick was like a little too uptight, you know, so
it was white Notala. Yeah, for sure. I was like,

(25:29):
okay both for y'all, y'all giving me something like weird
like young and the restless multi kam moment, and what
I need is I mean, it's the vocal fund of
like Nathan Lane and um, I'm a blinking on Isabella,
thank you or Isabella. And obviously different characters, like different
types of characters, like obviously the word hog has got
to come through with raspy, jovial nous but a little

(25:52):
something the only seventeen eighteen, and it's like and especially adult,
I mean not in jen neural, I mean the voice
changes is infuriating. And and then also like she has
so few lines at all that it's like, you know,
you get to hire a local performer who can like deliver,

(26:12):
like make a live deliver the seven lines you give
her in the second damn meal of it. So Nala
is trying to convince him to return. He's like no,
but then Raffiki shows back up and imparts some wisdom
about how Simba needs to face his past and how
Mufassa is alive inside of him, and then ghost. Mufassa

(26:33):
shows up in the sky and he's right, yeah, Kimba
the wine line, oh gosh. So Simba is like, oh, ship,
I should go back home. I'm on spring breaks. I'll
go back. And then he returns to Pride Rock and Nala,
Tomor and Pumba also follow him and scars like, oh, Simbody,

(26:56):
you're alive. That's weird. And then Sarabi's like, oh my god,
you're alive, Simba, and everyone you know has varying reactions
to him being there. And then Simba challenges Scar in
a I wrote down Game of Thrones? Ever heard of him?
Scars like, oh, by the way, I'm the one who

(27:16):
killed Mufasa, and Simba's like no, and then they fight
and he throws Scar over a cliff and then the
hyenas eat him. But no, but remember though, it's like
literally first Simba comes back sensitive and scars like you
killed your father? Tell everybody, and like you did, Simba,
and then two seconds later scars like I killed your father.

(27:39):
Simba pushes him back and it's like tell him what
you child? Be just down my ear and he's like
I killed him, and they're like scars like it's like
literally how fast it And then and then like in
the middle of that, Timon and Boomba show up and
they're goofing up. You're just like, this is this is
a mess. It's like a very messy high school fight
of like tell them what you just said and then

(28:00):
he's like I'm saying and then you're like oh, and
then the two like clowns are over here, like I
love when Tom was like, what do you want me
getting dragon? Do? The hula cut to him and dragged
during the hula and then back to the brutal Game
of Thrones. That's also was like are you acon for

(28:21):
some bacon? And then smash cut to Simba punching Scar
in the face. It could be a big pig too, Okay,
So then Scar has been defeated, and then we flashed
forward to Pride Rock is nice again. The e p
a has been reinstated, finally clean the water, yes, they

(28:42):
remembered about the lake is like it's literally Nala knows
where it is. I don't know. And Nala had gotten
gregnant with a little baby lion cub who RAFFII lifts
into the sky just Extemba had been in the beginning
because it's the circle. And then we learned in the

(29:06):
second one that it's his daughter Chiara. They never watched
the sexte I've seen. I've seen the second one. It's
it's that one's basically Romeo and Juliet. But yes, his daughter,
Simba's daughter Chiara. Cute. We've got to go to a
quick break, but then we will come right back. I mean,

(29:30):
where to begin, Where to begin? What if we already
started talking about that, we can just pick up on.
We could talk about the Caucassity Present. Yes, let's do it,
because it is funny, like watching it like as a kid,
like to me it was black. I was like, oh,
we did get our first princess. And I was like, oh,
I know why I don't remember her because they made

(29:52):
her Moirachill later on. But I just because I was
like the voice of James Earl Jones, and just like
it's just interesting, you know, because like this all I do,
like talking white or talking black or sounding whatever. You know,
there's by no means a hard and fast rule. You know.
I definitely grew up being told I talked white for forever,
and now most of my stand up is just fucking
tackling back and forth between voices for the fun of

(30:12):
it and like code switching whenever I need to. But
it is just interesting how this was. This was a
movie to me where it was like, oh, that's a
black person, that's a white person, and like knowing that
in my ear even as a little kid, you know
what I mean. I just very interested in the whole
Like why would they not cast a black actress to
be Nala, Because I will say, sir, Robbie is coming

(30:35):
through with this regal realness in her cocoa vocals. Give
me another black woman. Madge Sinclair is the voice actor.
The voice of Robbie unfortunately also has seven lines total,
but but makes a meal of it. She's giving you something,
you know what I mean, a little something, And I
just thought that was like very um, I don't know,
just interesting some of those choices, you know what I mean,

(30:57):
you need to mean Jeremy Iron's perfection, Sure o Thomas.
What other star of that time would do it? But
it was just so funny how I was like, yeah,
that's out the deal of Thomas And when he's singing,
is Michael Jackson, you know, not literally Michael Howe would
just be that sound and you're just like like, um,
I think we know what happened here. It was just
so interesting. Yeah, the voice of young Simba Jason Weaver

(31:22):
who I remembered as the older brother and smartt that's
the singing voice. Singing voice. Yeah, and then so yeah,
white actor for the speaking voice, black actor for the
singing voice. Shouldn't they have just cast black voice actors
for every role in this movie? Well, I know, right,
that's kind of I know. But at the same time,

(31:42):
right there animals and so who are we to ascribe
race to animals? But when you start with James Earl Jones,
everybody else gotta brasiddication. That's the tricky Like that's a
tricky thing, you know what I mean, Like he's like
the patriarch, right, and he's giving you that gravitas, right,
Because it's kind of split down the middle in terms
of casting where you've got voice actors who are people

(32:03):
of color. We've got Mufasa Sarabi, Young Nala, Raffii, Shenzi
and Bondsy. So you've got like James Old Jones, mag
Sinclair what was the name, Robert Yeah, you know, Whoopi
Goldberg and teach Marin as to the hyenas, and then
Nikita Colamba Harris is young Nala, and then the white

(32:27):
voice actors young Simba. J. T. T. We've got adult Simba,
Matthew Broderick, We've got adult Nala. What's her name? Moira Kelly,
Kelly Scars, Jeremy Irons as we've discussed Zazoo as Rowan Atkinson,
Timon and Pumba are Nathan Lane and the name that
I also forget, Yeah, and then Jim Jim Cummings is

(32:47):
ed the the other the laughing ist Tyina. Let's yes,
the laughingest Hyena. Part of the issue with this movie
and with most Disney movies that are trying to portray
another culture, even if it even if the intentions are earnest,
is everyone in a major production role in this movie

(33:09):
is a white person, and so it's like it doesn't
seem like anyone was considering it. Yeah, because to me, also,
I look, it is animation, you know what I mean?
And I one of the things I love and keep
trying to break my ass in a voiceover is because
I don't have to deal with the same assumptions of
what I am allowed to play because of my face.
So I don't honestarily for me, it's like, no, you can,
you could give me, you know, some cross cultural moments.

(33:32):
I just an issue with the switching of vocals from
people in both like the and that that's a different
there's a different sup between Like obviously Matthew Broderick isn't
singing his parts. That's apparently the lead singer of Toto.
I think who's it's also John Williams's son. Oh wait,
wouldn't be funny though if it was, and that's what

(33:52):
inspired him to sing Africa. Joseph, No it is, he's
uh yeah, Joseph Stanley Williams fronted fronted for the lead
of the rock band Toto and son of John LANs
son of John Williams, who knew wild connection. But so
I get, like, you know, the actor can't sing necessarily,

(34:13):
but it's just like so jarring to go from like
scooky down on the Taylor Thomas to like motown moments.
It's just it's just such a shift. And the thing
I've never really understood now maybe more than ever, it's
about famous people and certainly if you're doing with live
action thing. But to me, the whole point of voice office,
like let the voice actors get a job I don't need.
It's like here Fred Savage to talk about Nissan and ship.

(34:36):
It's like, han't you got some money? What you're taking
all this stuff? But we don't like the fact you
need that star power for like even a cartoon. I say,
you get like a couple of recognizable names, maybe for
like the poster or whatever. But it's like maybe the
girl who was young, Nala was too young to age up,
but then you just find like an older like an adult.
There were were plenty to choose from, and you could

(34:59):
just like you just knew, I'm not gonna a little
black girl having fun, like you know that voice and
then you and then you like, like what do you
do with it? Just it just seems like no thought
was given to it, and it's it's frustrating. Luckily, the
live action remake seems to, of course corrected a lot
of this. Yes, but if you look at the production team,

(35:20):
it is still a majority white production team, white director,
white like it. It's that's the thing that frustrates me
about a lot of like it's it is like progress,
but if you like behind the camera representation is still
so low and you don't see it, and so no
one really well of course, and then also every if
you notice too, the black people in the movie are

(35:40):
the super blacks. Not an actual phrase, of course, but
this idea usually that like because you notice a lot
like people will allow a black musician who has reached
a stain level of fame. It's a cross over into
acting because like, Okay, I already know that black person,
so you can put them over here. But it's harder
for anybody just kind of crop up out of nowhere,
you know what I mean, Like it's Beyonce come town,

(36:04):
you know what I mean. It's like you picked the
best black woman around right now. Donald Glover were also
like a multi hyphen like if they were gonna put
black people and it had to be the like big
splashy names and not that obviously like they'll be good.
I'm not saying any of these people lack the ability
to do this work, but it is still that feeling

(36:26):
that like you're not giving like a newer performer a chance,
or just like you're nothing else onde the box. You're
like like it was just kind of like who's the
biggest black person we can get for this thing. Yeah, okay,
can we get her? Can we get her? Okay? Good, Okay,
now we're done. Okay, now we're done. Okay, now Beyonce,
just Beyonce into the microphone, into the microphone, will hit
record and then and then it's like you can have

(36:46):
Jon Favreau directed and people aren't gonna like raise in
that Like that. It really does bother me when when
it's there's like a lot of effort put into representation
in one area specifically, and then the rest is sort
of like, well, we can keep status over here, and
that's true and innim I mean that's true in a
lot of animation like It's and which is white boys

(37:07):
hadded but it's more white boys stealing ideas. Uh yeah,
do you want to talk about that? Yes, I have been.
I so this is like I vaguely knew about this,
but then I did a deep dive on it. There's
a YouTube channel I watch called yester World. It is
very long video essays about Disney theme topics and I

(37:28):
am ashamed. Uh, but he does great work. Anyways. They're
basically like short docs. But the Lion King part of
it's like claim to fame is being Disney's first quote
unquote original story that isn't a direct adaptation of something else.
So they're like, there's elements of Moses and Joseph, there's
elements of Hamlet, but it's an original story. It's our first,

(37:48):
like the first Disney Renaissance movie that isn't a direct
like old European story being adapted, right, and that doesn't
seem necessarily true. It bears a lot of resemblance to
an anime series that started as a comic book series
called kim Both The White Lion in Japan by a
very famous Japanese um animator named Osamu Tezuka, and I'm

(38:12):
not or Tessuka. It's it's the most frustrating story in
the world to unpack because it's just like peak Disney,
where it's like, if you can admit that you were
taking elements from this story and pay the people who
created it, no harm, no foul, all good because Tessuka's
whole um. He's a like super famous Japanese animator. He
invented Astro Boy and kim but with the White Lion,

(38:34):
like two huge Kimba Kimba sim you know, exactly like
Simbod and Tessuka idolized Disney was constantly citing Bambi as
the reason that he wanted to become an animator. Like
got to meet Disney once and was it just was
like very effusive about how there is and but I

(38:57):
mean it's I mean, I don't know what they're they're
lationship was, but uh, you know, Disney is not a
good person. But Tessiga makes Kimba the White Lion. It
is a big deal in Japan. His name is Leo
the Lion in Japan, but it's not in America because
the MGM Lion's name is Leo, so they changed it
to Kimba. So he's known as Kimba the White Lion

(39:17):
in America. Some people like, it's not a super popular
thing in America, but it is popular enough coming out. Uh.
The good question is the sixties. The sixties is when
the character was invented, or the fifties was comic books
and then there were movies in the sixties. Yeah, he
was like a well established Yeah, it's been a long time, right,

(39:38):
And so there is a lot of speculation that is
well founded that the Lion King rips off a lot
of elements of Kimba the White Lion. Most of them
are visual, but basically the the issue with it is
that here's this famous Japanese animator who absolutely loved Disney.
His company was willing to play ball and like lend

(40:01):
the rights because they're like, oh, you know, and he
he passed away by the time this movie came out,
but he's like, oh, Tessica would have loved that Disney
wanted to use his characters. But Disney firmly denied that
what they had done had anything to do with Kimba
the Lion. There, Lion Simba had nothing to do with Kimba.
There's a number of like things you can watch online

(40:23):
of side by side shots. The fight between Scar and
Simba is identical. The dead Dad in the sky scene
is identical. The stampede with the bird hovering above saying
don't worry help is coming as identical. Like visually. In
addition to story beats, the dead Father beat us there,
the stories aren't exactly one for one the same. There's

(40:46):
literally a farting ward hog in Kimba the way. It's
ridiculous it is, and Disney already has such a horrible
history of stealing from other cultures and never crediting and
being like, idea, we did it. And this is like
a particularly agregious because when the movie came out, Tessica's

(41:06):
company was like, hey, this bears a lot of resemblance
to our I P. We weren't paid for it, but
Tessica would have liked that, Like, they were still really
nice about it. And Disney responded by issuing a cease
and desist to the company and saying like, keep our
name out of your mouth, has nothing to do with
what you did, and funk off. So it's Disney. Are

(41:28):
we surprised? They're like trying to start a empire. No
one will be allowed to watch anything that does not
have their logo on it, and they're evil like there
and a lot of animators anonymously came forward because the
wrath of Disney, you can't A lot of animators and
honestly came forward and we're like, no, we definitely knew
about Kimba the White Line. It was talked about in
meetings all the time. The Lion King started as a

(41:51):
Kimba project, but then Tessica passed away and we had
already started concept arts, so we sort of just kept
a lot of it and like it's well document. Matthew
Broderick has said in interviews that he was telling everyone
he was going to be the voice of Kimba because
he was familiar with Kimba, and he was told he
was going to be the voice of Kimba, and they're like,
actually it's Simba. Never mentioned Tessica again, and and Disney

(42:14):
still to this day has not copped to it. But
they've basically stole a lot of visual inspiration and like
story beats. In addition to the Hamlet stuff that they
will admit to, they stole a lot from this very
famous Japanese animator. Disney is scar Basically Disney is a
gas lighting liar, but also not even good at their treachery,

(42:39):
you know what I mean, Like they have power, but
like they don't. They're not, Like you couldn't even make
that ship and not look alike. You just listed six
direct scenes. You change that one letter because that was
the thing was Scar too. It was like, okay, bitch,
you gas lit a child. Yeah, you ain't that clever,
And then you got in charge and then nobody had water.
You ain't even going to be in charge. Why did

(42:59):
you want to be in charge so you're just sitting okay?
Put a bird in a rib cage? Why did you
want to be in charge so bad? You're not good
at any of the things. He couldn't even keep the
secret up. I killed your father, wait till he's dead.
But he was like got a whisper in his here.
It's like like Disney is like not even good if

(43:20):
faked ship feeling ship. There's also hyenas and a raffiki
character in Kimba. It's this, Okay. The one thing that
this just makes me laugh. The one thing that was
included in Kimba the White Lion that it is actually
very good that Disney did not steal because it's scary,
is Kimba the White Lions. Dad also dies in the movie,
but instead of really devastating under the policyne what Kimba

(43:43):
the White Lion does is keeps his dad's high and
uses it as a disguise, and multiple points, girl does
not let other people know that the king is dead.
He just sneaks under his dad's corpse and hiss hello everybody,
Buffalo bills his father. So um. Those are fun scenes

(44:08):
to watch on YouTube too, because you're like, yaikes, this
is very dark. Um okay, so that's my that's my tiree.
Thank you for sharing all that. We've got to take
another quick break, but then we'll come right back for
more discussion. Alright, So we've covered the you know, intellectual

(44:31):
property theft from Disney, We've covered the upsetting casting choices.
Let's talk about the female characters. Yeah, but it's like
they haven't come up yet with good reasons, with the
reason because they are nearly inconsequential to the story. Did
you my nations count how many lines they have? Because

(44:54):
I literally feel like it has to be between the
does what we have a gender as a hyena? Because
I didn't think we ever like here? So like, so
I'm not counting whoopee. So I'm literally just counting Nala
and Sarabi, right, Okay, I swear to you they must
say less than twenty lines between the two of them
home moving, Oh ease. I didn't think that that is

(45:15):
like generous, most especially because most of Nala's interaction is
in a music montage where she sucks and she doesn't speak.
It's just that we're just like hearing like her internal
monologue and so You're just like it's like, why can't
he be the king I want him to be? And
then she's like I'm ready and it was just like

(45:37):
it was just like what because I loved because initially
I was like oh, I was like I forgot where
it's like, you're going to be married and she's like,
oh gross, and I was like, okay, I'm into romance.
Subplot is Zazu being like, yeah, you guys are betrothed
and they're like what the fund does that mean? And
he's like, you're going to be married and they're like gross.
We're friends. And then and then Simba disappears from her

(46:00):
for a decade thought he was dead. She thought he was.
But I do think it is important that, like her
life is more defined by him than his, his life
is defined by her because seeing him again means the
world to her because he equals no more Nazis, in
addition to fucking the hope for her future hinges on

(46:21):
this boy yeah, whereas he's just like oh' sup, Like
he's like, I got so good to see you. What
are you even up to? I thought you were dead.
It's like if I ran into my neighbor Brendan O'Connell
always have a crush on and like, oh my god, Brendan,
this horrible guy name him Trump is in office and
you have to get him out. And he's like, what's
up right now? Insects for the best and pig how

(46:48):
do you get so jacked eating grabs? He's got a
full body, he's he's dined on vick, He's he's swollen.
I'm interested in teen Simba. We only see him on
the log but for a moment, but he has a mohawks.
I'm like, that is styled his rebellious face. And that

(47:11):
was it. But then here's a question, due, did you
do you feel like Simon and Pumba were his parents?
I feel like at best they were like big brothers,
Like I don't think anyone was like raising him or
teaching I felt uncle vibes from them. I always felt
like an uncle vibe of like, yeah, you're taken care
of there. They're technically like your caretakers, but they're not
like making sure you're learning things, like they're not teaching

(47:35):
you much like literally, their whole life philosophy is don't care.
So what really can they be teaching him? And yet
in the montage. He learns everything he needs to know
about life and is ready to go back resumed. It is.
And then we learned in that and I never that's
never really registered for me. But in that scene where
they're all looking at the stars to mon Pumba and Simba,

(47:55):
you learned that Simba has never told them anything about
his background. Um he so they know very little about
him there. They've just kind of been feeding and bugs.
Maybe they're I'm like, I want to know what they're Well,
you have to see Lion King one and a half,
which is a class one and a half. Lion King
one and a half is I think of the two
directed video Lion Kings No Superior. It's just literally what

(48:20):
Timon and Pumba were doing during all the parts of
the Lion King that they're not in. It's really funny.
It's like and it's Nathan Lane and Ernie's about like
Matthew Roject. The whole cast came back for this two
thousand four directed video. It's really good. I haven't seen
that one either. It's classic. That's amazing. Yeah, and like
that they called it half yeah. Interesting. I thought it

(48:41):
was gonna be like a twenty minute video like a
twenty minute clip half for some reason, for some reason,
they made it a feature. I'm I kind of missed
direct to video. I guess like there are some Netflix
projects that are comparable to direct to video ship to
where you're just like, what is who is this for?
It's like it's much work for who? But I love

(49:02):
that stuff. Uh So anyway, So we've got Simba, who
is like emotionally repressed. We've got Nala coming back. Here's
Here's what really draws me nuts about this storyline is
that Nala comes back and she's like, Simba, you've been
gone all this time. Our homeland has been deteriorating. We're

(49:22):
living under this Nazi regime. Please come back and help us.
We're our only hope. And he's just like, no thanks.
And then a male character shows up, Raffii, and he's like, hey, Simba,
you should really like look inside yourself and then consider
going back. And he's like, you're right. A man told
me I should do that, So I'm going wait, but

(49:44):
the man showed him his daddy and the sky magic Man. Yeah,
I feel like riffy and he does no Raffii, RAFFICI
did the whole hold him on the rock. He doesn't
remember that. I don't think he knows Raffici actually when
he shows back up right because he's like I knew
your father, right, because he's like, who are you and

(50:06):
he's like, my father's dead, sorry to break it to you, dude,
Like so he doesn't recognize him at all. I know
what you mean though, But I think it's also like
I could have used a scene of all the lady
lions like trying to overthrow scar in some capacity and failing,
you know what I mean, Like just a pop of
what was going on back home, how they tried to

(50:26):
fight back and couldn't do it, you know what I mean.
I think that that would like help just logistically help
offset some of the tone stuff too, because you don't
know what's going on until you're seeing Dystopia right before
Simba gets back, and it would be and it's like
you get that one shot of Sarabi like holding her
head high as she's like walking through this like Hyena

(50:47):
held then, and you can sort of like you get
an idea of like she's been through a lot, she's
like retaining her dignity through this, but this isn't But
it's like, yeah, you could use especially because we see
Nala's mom for one line, or she's cleaning her child
exactly licking your child's ass, and that's literally always her. Yeah,

(51:07):
that would that would have been good for everyone too,
because it's because you are sort of like, how did
Scar pull this off? He's so out Well that brings
me to some some science facts what I have, So
we yes, we talked to Katie Golden. She is the

(51:30):
host of Creature Feature podcast right here on the network,
and she knows a lot about animals, and she told
us a thing or two about how lind behavior actually
works in nature versus how it's depicted in The Lion King.

(51:50):
So she says, female lions make up the core of
a pride, which we see in the movie um Males
come and go. Prides are often thought to only contain
one male and like a harem of females, but that's
not always totally accurate. Only Tsavo lion prides contain a
single male adult. Most other subspecies of lions have prides

(52:11):
in which they're up to four males, typically brothers, and
typically one dominant male is allowed to mate with several
females and then they all produce cubs. So in the
lion king Nala and Simple would be related because the
fossa would be both of their dads. Because we see
only one. We see my fassa and then we see Scar,

(52:33):
who we assume isn't he's an in cell. He's not
getting sucked. I was, yes, major in cell, like he
lives in a basement. Literally yeah. But then all the
other adult lions are females, so everyone Fassa is fucking.
So that now that's sexy time and jule um in

(52:58):
In real life and nature, this kind of inbreeding is
usually avoided by dispersal, so the male lions will move
away from the pride that they were born in and
seek a new pride or a new territory um, so
Simba returning to Pride Rock wouldn't have happened. In nature,
the dominant alpha male in a pride will eventually be

(53:18):
ousted by a younger, fitter male or several males, a
swoller male linum, who will take a tenure at the pride.
So the son of like the alpha male line would
not be the one to take over. He would instead
go off and find his own pride. So that's I

(53:38):
couldn't even go to someone's table at lunch, just literally
can I be part of your prod? Confidence? Yeah, the
confidence it takes to just be like, hey, can I
join your pride? Also, I'm in charge, so I'm the
leader big all about even that move? Um. So in

(53:59):
urns of female and male lions, it's hard to say
kind of who's in charge, as both females and males
have specific roles in their community. Because females rear the cubs,
they do the majority of hunting UM and they help
enforce the social structure, while males defend their territory from

(54:20):
other males. They assist in hunting a little bit, and
they are usually either ousted or they dispersed to other
prides UM. But typically prides or thought of as a
matriarchal society UM because the permanent social structure is maintained
by the females, whereas the presence of anyone individual male

(54:40):
is generally temporary. This is what we were just talking
about in the narrative. Females in nature in real life
will gang up on an intruder male who attempts to
take control of a pride. So if Scar tried to
take control of the mating or in this movie he
tries to become king, what he would do try to

(55:02):
kill all the existing cubs, So the females would try
to prevent this by fighting him off, and because Scars superscrawny,
they probably would have won and killed him because like,
what does Scar have? He just has some hyenas and
is it just I can't remember he has? Obviously the
three main was in there. There more than that, but
I was like a whole army. The whole army was
like but in actual nature, the lions wouldn't be afraid

(55:26):
of a hyena. Well, he's some and some more facts
coming through everyone listened to creature feature hyenas would never
work with lions. She whist lions eat hyena cubs and
steal their kills, while sometimes hyenas will steal a lion kill.

(55:49):
But hyenas are also matriarchal and they're actually more nepotistic
than lions. So in the Lion King, if Mufasa, Simba
and Scar were female hyenas, this would all actually become
more accurate narratively. I sort of don't understand what I
just read, but maybe I trust him. I trust right, Okay,

(56:13):
so some mistakes were made to avoid scenes with too
many women in them right there. I mean, yeah, that
would be such a that would be such a better scene,
and just to get to know a female character well enough.
But again, it's just like, if you look at the
lineup of people who made this movie, it totally tracts
that they would have no concern about, Like why isn't

(56:34):
Naled doing more? Does Nala do anything that has consequence
besides get pregnant? Right because she has the agency and
she's active enough to go looking for help, and in
so doing she finds Simba, yes, but her attempt to
convince him to return doesn't work. And it's not until
RAFFII is like, hey, you better go back that Simba's

(56:56):
like okay, so she could have never showed up, and
it really would have made a difference. Well if you
even go back when when they were kids. Nala is
following Simba to go to the eleven Graveyard. It's not
her idea. She doesn't have a lot of agency there,
and then she just sort of is like hanging out. Well,
Simba's being a fucking brat and she's like, I'm gonna
own everything and she's so entitled as a kid, god

(57:20):
fucking like rich kids in their entitlement a night. But
she is able to every time they kind of like
play fight. She always pins him so strong and she's
a good hunter. But then she does it later and
it's horny and yeah, and that's how he knows that,
Oh you're you're Nala, the girl who always used to
pin me because it was but also my grandfather. She

(57:41):
like licks his face a little, yeah, you're like first
she surprised kiss him though I don't know, I know
lins how the lines consent. We don't know. Um, I'm
considering he had never interacted with a female lion in

(58:01):
like a decade, you know what I mean. He was
really like he was like very stunned. But it would
have been a great great to see like a scene
with like Nala and Sarabbi like teaming up to try
to be like let's overthrow scar, like let's do something,
or even a conversation about again like the death of
her husband and son went through a lot, right, lots

(58:25):
over that. Yeah, and like even when Simba comes again,
it only last two seconds, but when she thinks, you know,
when scars like he's the reason why MUFAs is dead,
she said she does Simba, or like, is that true?
You know she has that, But I'm like, we should
have had Sir Robbie Faine at some point fall out
and get it back together. She should have been the

(58:46):
one to find him in the damn jungle where she
was like, I've left, I have nothing to live for
and have been on a walk about. Or it's like
we see the scene where like Scar comes back after
just having gas lit, Simba been like, hey, Sarabi, MUFAs
is dead. Simba's dead. Sorry, And then and then we
can see the aftermath of like Sarabi and then like

(59:07):
Nala finding out that her best friend is presumably dead,
and then like them trying to cope with that grief
and exactly and like we're just like, what is it like?
Because you say it's like you see for I can
see like Pride Rock is like black, correct, it's already desert,
So you're like, well, but then you see it looking worse.
But to see a moment, well, what does life look

(59:28):
like for the rest of the Pride But what is
actually going on down below? Are they doing like a
pussy march, like a pussy hat march like a women's march,
and they're like what are they doing? And especially like
I don't know, that's what I'm just kinda like wait,
what what's going on with them? And we can see
that there's a lot of like lioness like when you
see that shot of Scar being in terging, like there

(59:49):
there's there are enough women to stage in uprising him.
Oh god, but women to stage and uprising. I'm actually
because the the in real life female lions are the
more proficient hunters, which at least was Nala at one point,
but like you would think they would have been able

(01:00:10):
to like take out Scar and probably most of the hyenas,
like they would have been able to rip them going
to Kenya to get the answers if you're not going
to use them, right Disney, Disney producers and writers failure
A vision failure a vision there. This is like literally
if we were like waiting around to be rescued by

(01:00:31):
an eighteen year old boy, like it just doesn't make
any logical sense. Could we could just take someone down ourselves? Yeah?
I did. It's just busy laughing at fart there, But yeah,
I mean, like the really the only two female characters
we get here they exist in relation to the men
around them pretty explicit. And the fact that Simba Nala

(01:00:53):
start out as friends, it would have been nice to
see them just stay as friends. The fact that like
they wedge a romantic storyline in there doesn't need to happen. Yeah,
I feel like it could have. Just she could have
been used as like the moment of like the friend
that finally gets him to admit, like him thinking he
killed his dad, and then Nolle could have been the
one to be like Scar was lying to you, right,
don't mean make no sense simbo. Yeah, looking back, I'll

(01:01:15):
go back again. A black woman as grown has knowledge
like simple get it again? Right? Yeah? But yeah, nothing
nothing really adds up, simply does not. And so I'm
curious if any of this will sort of be kind

(01:01:36):
of course corrected in this remake, because Disney seems to
be attempting to do this with these live action remakes,
for example, not to back, but I did see a
Laddin twenty nineteen in the theater. Okay, I hope you
can get it as a text right off. Oh yes,
I'll be writing that. I use my AMC list stubs
and it was actually yeah, wow, okay, well somebody she

(01:02:00):
just gotta upgrade anyway, Um, are you telling me about
that movie? Upgrade? You like the Beyonce song who plays Nala?
Go ahead? And then you're trying to tell So in
this live action Aladdin, there seems to be an attempt
to make Jasmine a more meaningful and flashed out character.
She's given like political aspirations that she does not have

(01:02:22):
in the animated film from ninety two. She's also given
a couple of extra songs, so we learned a little
bit more about her character and her perspective. So there's
an attempt to flesh out female characters more. It's seen
there's still lions in this Yeah, so what are they
going to do? You know what I mean? Like you
can use that as a cover, right, I mean, but

(01:02:44):
there's but they're anthropomorphized as people basically, So I don't
think that's any excuse. I think they can still like
give female characters agency. We can learn more about their personalities,
their backstories, like all that stuff. I get. Yeah, I
mean that's like the test, Like that's the only thing
that most of the only value I see in these

(01:03:06):
cash grab movies is like can you improve upon the
material by adapting it well? And like can you you know,
like make the like diverse choices you should have in
the first movie. Can you like fix shady character ship
or like confusing like why is this person motivated? Why
don't we see this female character for an hour? Like

(01:03:29):
stuff like that, Like you could have that scene with
Sarabi and Nala's mom and all the lionesses in the
new one, and that would be like a cool adaptation change.
What's Seth Rogan playing? He's I object, yes, yeah, yeah, Okay,

(01:03:49):
So we've got we've got some updates including Amy said
there's plays a character whose name is Elephant. True. We
seem to have added a few what I'm guessing your
male characters. Who's like Eric Andre plays a character named
a Zz who I don't know. What I think is
they changed the names of the hyenas. That was well

(01:04:12):
because shen Z is the is WHOOPI Goldbrook's character in
the animated one and that remains, But I don't see
I think his name is like Bonzai in the animated one,
So maybe that's oh, oh yeah, who just keep playing?
Oh no, he plays Kamari, who's that it's kari okay,

(01:04:32):
It's a whole new world compare another out of transitation
change that it is rumored the movie is making, and
I think transitions well into Another thing we need to
talk about is the song be Prepared is allegedly not
going to be in the new movie. Um it is
like the one major song from the original that as

(01:04:53):
far as I can find, has been cut, the best song,
the one you want to last three hours, I'm so sorry,
and there's and I think that like that is a
very interesting like of this moment kind of choice to make.
There's a slight article written by Aisha Harris about this

(01:05:16):
creative decision. It was written last year, so it's possible
that maybe they just didn't announce it, but they released
the track list really early and be Prepared is not
on there. And it is interesting because that scene, there's
a bunch of whatever. You can go into the clickbait
universe and find the side by side comparisons of like
Lenny Reefinstahl movies of Nazi soldiers and a lot of

(01:05:37):
the shots are very deliberately identical, and the hyenas marching
and you know, the whole bit, like it is pulled
directly from this like very famous German World War two
propaganda movie, which I guess was a creative decision that
wasn't very controversial. But now that and and and Aisha

(01:05:57):
Harris argues in this article and she thinks it's a
bad choice to cut this number and kind of Disney
hedging their beds now route. We might as well give
him a number. But she she kind of makes the argument,
and I agree with what she's saying is that Disney
is so like wanting to please everyone that in saying
like Nazis are bad was not as hot a take

(01:06:19):
as it is in fucking two thousand and nineteen, and
so that that is most likely the reason why the
song was cut. The reason that they gave was like
that the I don't know the name of the actor
who's playing scar now Nazis ang will come to see
some black people signs in Africa anyway, I don't know.
I think I'll mispronounce it, but she would tell. So
the argument used was that he's not a singer by trade,

(01:06:41):
and Jeremy Irons was a singer, so they can't have it.
But clearly Disney pulls the ship all the like if
the actor can't sing, you hire another actor. But they
cut this, they cut the song, and yeah, I think
that that's kind of a first of all, my one
of my favorite songs in the movie. But also it's
just like if a Disney movie can give some anti

(01:07:02):
Nazi messaging, now I would be a great time, very appropriate.
But uh yeah, speaking of Scar, should we talk about
the queer coding of this and all Disney vieling. I
was gonna say, do you know that James Admian bit
James and he talks um he has a had a
very wonderful bit a few years back, but I think

(01:07:24):
it might still be in rotation about yeah pretty much.
I mean what you're gonna say that, like all Disney
villains are gay? Yes, it's yeah, every Well, we'll link
that in the description because it's like one of my
favorite the dummy bits. Ever. Yes, I mean, Scar is
one of the more notorious queer coded villains where, of course,
you know coding, it's never explicitly stated, but through the

(01:07:47):
way the characters speaks, moves, etcetera. Other coded queer Disney
villains include Ursula uh and include whor else who else?
We got again again from the villain from great Mouth,
Detective the Governor Radcliffe from Contest. There's I mean, most

(01:08:11):
Disney Renaissance movies follow this exact formula and have a
queer coded villain, which you know, it's like it conflates
queerness with evil. There's a lot of reclaiming that the
queer community has done of the Disney villains. And if
you go to like they have Disney villain Knights at Disneyland.
And I had a friend in Boston who would travel

(01:08:33):
in a pack of ten gay men would fly to
Florida to go to Disney viland like, there's a lot
of reclaim this's taken place, but it is, I mean,
it's it's, you know, a mostly straight group of writers, creators,
animators um demonizing queer people. And since these movies are
intended for children, children get the wrong messages about queer people.

(01:08:58):
Even if they don't realize what's happening, their brains are interpreting.
We talked about this a lot on the Aladdin episode,
so I recommend revisiting that if she wants more. And
then another thing that this and other Disney movies do
is that they the way they're designed is that they
tend to be darker, where all the lions except for

(01:09:20):
Scar are like beige, yellowy tan, right, and then Scar
has much darker for a much darker main. This also
happens again with Radigan, which I think, honestly, Great Mouth
Detective might be my favorite Disney movie. And it also
happens with Ursela. It was Ursula. She's purple and everyone

(01:09:40):
else is white, and canonically, like, they don't do that,
they don't funk with this in the in the Disney movie,
but canonically she's supposed to be King Triton's sister. Yeah
maybe half sister, yeah, but either way, like that is
fully at play in that movie as well. Yeah, so's
it's all black. She's rotund, which is supposed to be bad,

(01:10:01):
you know what I mean? Like everything, right. The the
the heroes in Disney movies are animated and designed to
be traditionally attractive by Western beauty standards. They're they're thin,
they're white or light skinned or furred. Uh. They are
young and pretty and all this stuff, and and straight.

(01:10:24):
While the villains, especially from this kind of specific era
and then even before that, were made to look darker.
They were queer coded, they had different body shapes. And
sizes and just yeah, all just demonizing anything that isn't
uh and and again this is like because there has

(01:10:45):
been a process of reclaiming these characters over time. It
is like a complicated issue too. There is another piece
that I read in uh Into that argues, because it
does seem like an adaptation choice, is that they're doing
away with the queer coding for Scar and this this
author argues that that is sort of erasure of the

(01:11:06):
only visibly queer character in the movie, and they're making
him a straight villain, which means that there's no queer characters.
And it's I mean, it's Scott doesn't have sexuality, but
to have him not play those stereotypes in a nefarious way, right, Like,

(01:11:29):
that's good to do, you know what I mean? Right,
I think there should be representation of queer characters, certainly
in Disney and all movies. Every movie should be more queer.
But again, so I'm saying, like an adaptation, you can
find another character to have some visibility to It doesn't
even have to be Scar. But right, it's almost like

(01:11:49):
whenever Disney tries to do it, it's so corny and disingenuous,
Like with fucking Lafu and Beauty and the Beast where
he's seen like dancing with another man and like we
did it. We did it Visibility win and it's just
like make yeah, make like tomone have a mere cat husband, right,

(01:12:10):
and then like them be like actually happy together to
be married. Some interspecies they are like literally life partners.
We put them in Boa together. They've got they've got
a condo. They're common law obviously, like a mere cat
and a word hog aren't. Just like they didn't just

(01:12:32):
fall together, they found each other. Yeah, you know what.
I think it's explained in Lion King one how they
first met and fell in UM. But yeah, I mean
the queer coding debate is complicated when and I mean
I don't envy the writer who's in the position of
deciding what stays and what goes UM, But there it is.

(01:12:55):
Scar is a heavily queer coded villain for sure. Is
there anything else anyone wants to talk about? I think
that the last thing I had was the Elton John
of it all. I was gonna ask you that when
we're talking about these kind of queerness and characters, and
you know, of course, to me, I can't even think
about Lin King now without thinking about the Broadway show, right,

(01:13:16):
you know, and that being so linked. So please Jamie,
what I'm saying is I'm ready. Oh I well, I
just went into I guess get everyone's opinions because I
don't even know how I mean, I know how I
feel generally, But this so the Elton John being the
composer and then Tim Rice does the lyrics. Um, Elton
John is a queer artist, but they're both white guys
who who do and and there's you know, well documented

(01:13:39):
like they did a lot of research into African music,
they hired some African musicians to sing, but they still
are the people getting the main credits and getting the
oscars and getting the majority for paying tribute to a
lot of the musical tradition. But it's still ultimately two
white guys who are getting the credit for it. I
don't know, Gland, know what I mean? We could have

(01:14:00):
just put Graceland underlying King and it would have totally worked. Well,
white people like working with other white people, do you
know what I mean? Like, just't gonna like who's who's
someone we know? Okay, I don't want to feel uncomfortable today.
I don't want to have to worry about saying the
wrong word. Just gonna be a white person and John
some one where I don't, I don't. I just don't
want to be scared, you know what I mean. You're like,

(01:14:22):
I don't want to have to engage in whatever it
could possibly be, you know what I mean, like whatever
it could possibly be, which is who knows. But I
mean he's he's a brilliant musician too, though he's I mean,
I saw a rocket Man, okay, off another racket to
see it. But I don't like biopics. Really, I'm a
Terran Edgerton stand though I like him. I think he's

(01:14:43):
like a cutie patuity. Only I did see all both Kingman,
if only for Taran Edgerton's thighs. You gotta see rocket Man?
Are they on display the whole time? Like he's wearing
He's wearing shorts for a lot of the movie. And
you're just like, like, I just I just want to
be closer to them, I say, al right, So can

(01:15:06):
you feel the love tonight? Great song, very sexy. Timon
and Pumba's parts of that song are basically about how
a man entering into a relationship with a woman will
ruin your life because women are the old ball and chain,
like they're just like your care free bachelor life is

(01:15:26):
going to be fucked up if you go off with Nala.
The lyrics the song closes with in short, I'm not
gonna say is due and then they burst into tears.
So the thought of like their single male line friend
like getting a girlfriend ruins them. I love it, but

(01:15:48):
also you have to realize it. It's been a decade
of a co dependent dynamic, right, It's really been just
the three of them hunting up grubs. And you're like, yeah,
I get why this is hard for you both. Sure
you know what, they haven't made a friend. I really don't, Simba.
I almost view of them as empty nesters. In that
song or there, it's like when you're when if your
parents are still somehow together when you when you leave

(01:16:11):
the nest, right, and they're like, oh now we have
to just like talk to each other again. So if
your parents are still somehow together when you leave the nest,
it was like personal backstory, let's unpack that. Um. But yeah,
just like they're they're gonna just hang out together again.
They're so quick to go back to like put themselves

(01:16:33):
in a harm's way when they're like, no, the third Friend, Well,
of course they want to go to Pride Rock because
of their queer pride. It's all symbolism, symbolism, title leaving.
I'm honestly excited to see the new movie. I am

(01:16:56):
so like whatever on reboot culture, but I am excited
to see it. I don't really need to see Lions.
If they only made it with people, i'd be interested.
But for some reason, I'm not here for like, like
I saw the animatronic Lion and it was like like
movies where it's like cool technology. Yeah, I don't feel

(01:17:17):
like that's like that for me does not draw me
into a movie. Usually, well what originally maybe when it
looked like it may be a Shot for Shot remake,
I was fully out, but like, at least they're making
some changes. It's because I'm more attached to Lion King
than any of the rereleases that have come out so far.
But Myles was showing me upstairs some of the early

(01:17:38):
like Beyonce as adult Nala and it looks like a
YouTube dub of like c g I Lions with a celebrity,
Like that's like what I'm not getting. Yeah, that's what
I mean. And then like again, the things we can do,
Like what I love about old Disney is that like
people drew that ship. Yeah, now it's like you got
ten computer programs. You know. Obviously I know there's some
computer involved, especially in the stand Pete scene and some

(01:18:00):
bigger scenes. You guys do not come for me. I
see it. It was all fucking hey and drawn. But
what I am saying is you see the artist handed
world and you can like see like it's just even
like in just there's no Uncanny Valley and like the
expressions that the animals have where I'm worried that it

(01:18:21):
will be Uncanny Valley City with this new Lion King.
I mean, I don't know. I want it to be good.
The only person I feel should be able to direct
motion capture movies is Andy Serkis. And if you I
am a big Andy Serkis stan if you haven't seen
his Jungle Book movie that's on Netflix because it got

(01:18:42):
pushed to Netflix because Disney pushed up the release of
their shittier Lion King during bro and fabs. So you know,
Andy Serkis, he's got m he understands mo cap and
you can make it look amazing. H he is the
entire planet of the apes. They it's just like, let
him handle this and let's just let's move on. Also,

(01:19:05):
this Lion King remake is a half hour longer than
so to everyone. I feel like the big the more
money they's in the movie, the longer they think it
needs to be right, you know what I mean. Don't
make a kids movie two hours long. I was watching it,
I was like, oh, it's like an hour twenty nine
minutes or something. The original and perfect. There it is,

(01:19:28):
And even then I felt the first thirty bit is
supposed to be blug. I will last thing I'll say
is that Poomba, when they're all talking about what they
think stars are, Pumba says that he thinks they are
giant balls of gas burning billions of miles away. Pumba
is a wart hog in Stem. He knows, he knows. Okay,

(01:19:55):
does this movie pass the Bechtel test. There is a
very quick exchange in the very beginning where there is
Nala's mom, so she's she's credit with the name, but
we don't know it. But Simpa's like, hey, Nala, let's

(01:20:18):
go to the watering hole, and then Nala's mom's like,
all right, I'll let you go. What do you think, Sarabi?
And then Sarabi says something like yeah, I guess it's okay.
But yeah, we never learned Nala's mom's name. And also
the context of the conversation is can Nala go with
a boy with a watering hole? And they line and

(01:20:40):
they're going to the elephant graveyard? Yeah, so I think
Sep does. Yeah, there so should have been a scene
between like either young Nala and Sarabi, like after they
learn about Mafassa and Simba's death, and or Nala as
an adult with Sarabi talking about like, hey, let's kill Scar.

(01:21:01):
We can do that. I'm gonna go try to find help.
Here's my plan for us. Yeah. If you don't hear
from me in two sundowns, I'm dead. So yeah, that's
a no on the Bactel test. Yeah, let's reade the
movie Zero to five Nipples based on its portrayal of women. Yikes, gang,
it's not too good. Sorry to say. The women are strong, yes,

(01:21:26):
so they don't do much with that strength. They don't. Yeah,
they don't get to really do anything. Yeah, I think
it's somewhere around there. I feel I'm feeling half a nip.
Just too bad because the potential for better use of
the female characters. They're they're, they're physically, they're What about
the sequel where it's a daughter the daughter, I I

(01:21:47):
don't remember enough in detail. I know a lot of
the story revolves around a forbidden romance with because if
there's a girl character, there's got to be a boy
character who she wants to kiss. I'm Kiara. I don't
know that she may have many wonderful qualities that escaped me.
I don't remember. Um. Katie Golden has something to say

(01:22:08):
about Lyon King to also she says, I have more
beef with Lion King too. In this movie. Covu Scarce
son also scar when I or he was like part
of scars had ten years to fuck. Covu teaches Chiara,

(01:22:29):
which is Simba's daughter, to hunt, which is ridiculous because
females are the more proficient and more frequent hunters, although
males do hunt some. So yeah, that's that's what Katie
had to say. So thank you very much once again,
thanks for all of that, and listen to Creature Feature
for for more more and also a couples therapist and

(01:22:51):
we're plugs of course, so yeah, I think like, yeah,
half a nip for me half and can get back
to young Nala same yeah, yeah, plug your stuff, Naomi,
thanks for being here. Oh thanks friends. You know Couples Therapy.
It's a podcast on the same network as Bechtel Cast.
You should be able to find it drop Every Tuesday

(01:23:13):
we have comics and sets together about their relationship Calen Jamie.
We're in a recent episode meeting their friend fan fiction,
so you can start there if you need something familiar
and then work your way out. Yes, you can follow
us at Bechtel Cast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. We've got
our Patreon aka Matreon, which is five dollars a month

(01:23:35):
and gets you to bonus episodes every single month. This
month in July, we've got America July, which includes American
Pie and American Psycho. Um, so tune in for all
that piping hot content, yes uh yeah, and then you

(01:23:57):
can check out our t public store for all of
our merch and so forth. And we are going to
be in London on September one doing two shows, Brave
and The Favorite, and I will I thought you're saying
we were brave for doing We're going to London so

(01:24:20):
close to Brexit, very brave um And so yeah, if
if you live in the UK, come to that show, yes, yes, please.
More details for that are on our website becktelcast dot
com and that's where you can find other information about
other upcoming live shows, including individual ones that both I
and Jamie are doing from to n Prefreinge and uh.

(01:24:44):
Other than that, I think we just just should all
remember about the circle of life, how it moves us all.
I love how yeah they the like opening sequence of
this movie is like momento more kids, you will one
day die here, like a lot of hard truths in landing,
a lot of hard truths that well you're gonna You're

(01:25:05):
all going to die someday. So thanks for blowing one
of your last hours on the effects of cast. Okay,
good night night