Mamma Mia with Miel Bredouw

Dancing queens Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Durante invite special guest Miel Bredouw to their podcast / wedding to discuss Mamma Mia (2008). Here we go again.

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Do Do Do
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do. Caitlin started,

(00:25):
Oh wait, now we're seeing a different songs. Oh, I
don't understand it, and we're off to an excellent start.
My name is Jamie Loftis, my name is Caitlin Dronte,
and this is the Betel Cast. Will make a fan
of attack what is going on today? We started a
different way and it threw us all off. No no, no,

(00:47):
no no no. I'm willing jump on drums Fernando. Okay,
so this is the Battel Cast start podcast about the
portrayal of him in the movies. We use the Bechtel
test as our jumping off point. If you're joining us
with the first time welcome. I have a question for Caitlin,
and this will pass the Bechtel test. Maybe, well, I
don't know. It depends on like Abba. We know that

(01:08):
includes some men. What is your favorite abason? Well, this
won't pass the Bechdel test because my favorite Abason is
Fernando Mine super Trooper. Okay, I feel like that's is
that a B side or is that any side? I
don't know. Abbess like catalog enough to really be able
to tell, but so Fernando is my favorite Abbas song.

(01:28):
That means that conversation does not pass the Bechdel test
because the Bectel test requires that a movie that you're
watching has two named female identifying characters. They have to
speak to each other in the movie, and their conversation,
which only by our standards, has to be a two
line exchange, but it cannot be about men. So Fernando doesn't,

(01:50):
and technically Abba doesn't because Abba is comprised of who
who all is in Abba? Uh, bunch of bunch, the
whole gang, the whole gangs here, okay, gang is in it,
and we love them all except maybe some of them
are bad. We don't know. I bet I would say
I think ABBA's four or five people. I would say

(02:10):
probably it's four people, super producer Sofie is saying, so
I would say four people. Probably at least one of
them is not a good person, just statistically where people
are bad and then their names are and if we're
we have Swedish listeners, first of all, good for us,
and second of all, I'm about to really destroy the

(02:30):
pronunciation of these Swedish names. But it's Agnita faults cog,
bjorn ol vs Benny Anderson love that and Annie fred Lingstad.
So do you know some guys and some gals and
they're all fully arian and they're their hair preer entertainment.

(02:51):
Let's get into the podcast. Let's do it. So today
we're talking about Mama Mia, the first one Do do
Do Do? Do? Do you? The dancing? Oh my god?
And here with us to join our discussion is a
very wonderful person, co host of Punch Up the Jam podcast,

(03:14):
me Albreto. Isn't abba to married couples, or it was
really I thought it was. I didn't know that. I'm
like a low key Abbastan, just know enough to be dangerous,
don't actually know what I'm talking about. I totally believe
that they look like they're two couples the way that
they're photographed. But the guys get the executive producer rights
on these movies, and I don't see the girl's names

(03:36):
in there. I wonder. I think maybe the guys wrote
the songs, but the girls sing all of them, so
it's very confusing. I don't know what's happening, but you
don't really think of male voices at all when you
think of Abba. It's the gals that's it. As person

(03:56):
repeating the name of the song in the background is
usually the Also shout out Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson,
who are executive produce these movies. I this is okay,
Mom and Mia is one of my favorite kinds of
cheesy Hollywood movies where it's so clear that's like everyone
wanted to go on vacation. Quality was not the priority here.

(04:19):
Everyone wanted to go on vacation. I'm sure like all
these actors vaguely at least knew each other and they're like, yeah,
vacation with this seems fun. They all look like they're
having so much fun, even when the movie is like,
so it's an annoying movie and I love it. What's
your history with this movie slash musical? Okay? I think

(04:42):
I probably first watched it when I was like sick
at home eight years ago and it just kind of
was on and I was too weak to change it.
That's all great, movies are seeing for the first time.
I definitely did not seek this out. It happened to me,
and then it kind of stuck with me, and then
probably a couple of years there, I was like, I
want to watch it again. So he did, and I

(05:03):
was like, this is trash in every sense of the word,
and I love it so And then they found out
being a second one. I was like, are you fucking
kidding me? Yes, and I went out opening already. Oh yeah,
And obviously we're not talking about the second one. But
in case you were wondering if it makes any sense,
it does not. The first one betrays so many things

(05:26):
they said up. There's so many continus. They say, the
mom is dead outright in the first one and a
pink share right, whoa, it's very insane. That does not
make any sense. Yeah, there's a lot of continuity errors.
I'm just gonna treat it like Spider Man, like when
they just started over here. That's so fun. It's fun though.

(05:51):
I love it. It's trash and a good way. It's
the movie and killen. You made this point the other
night because we tried to watch the movie together and
then it was like, literally twelve minutes and we're like,
we actually all have to go to bed. We went
to super producer Sophie's house to watch it, and we're
just like, you know what, it's not going to happen.
There's just the lighting, is you put? It is so

(06:13):
horrible really Like so, I'm not usually that much of
a snob when it comes to like the visual aspects,
which is I do have a master's degree in screenwriting,
though not in film production, so I'm not inclined to
like pay as much attention to the more like mechanical
side of filmmaking. I'm all about story. But this movie

(06:35):
does everything so badly that you can't not notice it. Like,
the lighting is extremely bad. The cinematography is so boring.
This is the most static movie I've ever seen in
my life. You have to give a shout out to
the one continuous shot when they're walking up the hill
to the church at the end. That is fucking insane.
That is pretty. But I'm with you because they do
Day for Night the worst I've ever seen it. It's

(06:55):
funny Day for Night. The editing is also really boring
and bad. I wouldn't say boring, would say is really
bad too. No, come on. No, I can't come on
at this time. It's so bland. Oh it's there. I
do the whole first scene with Amanda. Cyfrid and her

(07:18):
shitty friends don't have names. I don't think they the
friends have names. They like saying. They shouted at each
other where they're like tiny, Say we're Sophie, Ali, Lisa,
and we're the greatest, bestest mate. I'm tough, I'm taller,
I'm tiny, and we're going to rock this place. That's
the only time they say. That's what Galen and Sophie
do every time. That whole first scene is like Amanda's

(07:43):
is it Cyfred or Sea Freed or does it matter?
Not sure? Whatever you believe it. She has flesh colored
hair freaks me out, but I do have a thing
with flesh colored hair. But she she's like squinting and
the sun is in her eyes for the whole first
scene for honey, Honey, She's like, honey, honey, But you
guys like sunny, sunny. Your eyes are way more sensitive

(08:07):
to light when they're blue. I can attest to this.
I can't go outside without sunglasses and I literally can't
see whoa yeah, because nobody pigment to help you filter
sun light. We have strong eyes your evolution, sturdy eyes,
a pretty hefty eyes. Uh there, but like all three

(08:28):
of them seem like they're in pain. First number where
they're like, it's clearly very hot. Yeah right, Oh god,
the lighting, Jamie, what does your history so it? This morning?
Loved it? Oh, I loved it. I wish I had
seen it when it came out? Have you never seen
it before this morning? And it's something that I was like,

(08:49):
I knew I was gonna really like it. You predicted
I would really like it. I love. I love a
big dumb musical, I really do. I love especially I
love Hollywood musicals where O whe can sing, but most
of them, with the extreme accepted of Peters President, most
of them can act. None of them can sing. That's
my favorite kind of Hollywood musical When they can't sing

(09:11):
or act. That's scary. When they can sing and can't act,
like when they bring Broadway people into movies and it
doesn't translate, that makes me sad. This is my favorite,
like permutation of this format where it's like Meryl Streep
is merrolling out. She does a great job acting and
the secondary starts to sing, You're like, whoa, she's really bad.
But this is like everyone's having so much fun. They

(09:32):
don't even seem to care that they suck. I bet
that most of these people, if asked, would be like, yeah,
I'm not a great singer, would great time in Greece.
They do look like they're having fun. So my history
with this movie is I saw the stage production when
I was in college, so somewhere around probably like two
thousand five in New York City Stavor Dreams Come True. No,

(09:55):
this would be in a state college, Pennsylvania, home of
penn State University, where I did get my first film degree.
That's another city where true and known for their Broadway shows,
big touring production town. Exactly so I thought, and I
I really liked it. I liked the stage production. Is

(10:15):
everyone in the stage production white? Also, as far as
I can remember, it was a predominantly white cast. Yes, um.
And then I didn't see the movie when it came out.
I didn't see it until earlier this year. I went
to Boston to visit a friend of the cast, J. T. Taylor,
and he made me watch it, and I kept protesting,

(10:39):
and I said, I really don't want to and he
said please, and I said, okay, fine, because he's like
the new ones coming out, you have to be prepared.
So yeah, it's good when a friend looks out for you. Yeah. Yeah.
So we watched it and I was like, man, this
movie is rooting. Is not good. I'm sure if I
liked musicals, I would like this much better a bit.

(11:00):
I have a very very low threshold for liking movie
musicals that you would be movie musical right, because they're
usually better than I don't know, already have to get
over the hump of it's a jukebox musical where they
tried to string a storyline through songs that already were written.

(11:20):
That's crazy, that's what the This is why I don't
like this movie. The story makes no sense because they
reversed engineered a story around across the Universe, right, so
it is there's unless there's And I'm pretty sure this
was like the O G musical of this nature, or
maybe at least one of the first really popular ones
were stuff like Across the Universe, which is not nearly

(11:42):
as good. I don't know why I think this movie
is so good. I don't know either is good, but
it is on that spectrum. There's a word. We're going
to find it. It is not good, it's enjoyable, it
is popular. I think it's a word that doesn't exist yet. Okay,
we're going to create it. There this. I bet this
got nominated for an oscar for like costumes, I doubt maybe,

(12:05):
but the costumes are all the same. One pair of overalls,
one in those overalls. I like waiting for those overalls
to result into camel too. I was in full Meryl
streep camel toe watch and because they seemed inevitable. If
you're a frequent wear of overalls, it happens a lot. Well, no,
you're a tall person. I think this is unique experience.
I've never had a camel toe from overalls or one.

(12:27):
Oh my god, it's so hard to find overalls with
like a decent torso length. Yes, this is this is
your cross to bear as a person over at five
five I was really I was really hoping. I was
paying for a streep camel toe and God was asleep.
I think that's an automatic fail of the back toel
to pull on camel toe. It doesn't pass. It doesn't.

(12:53):
Oh no, okay, we're okay. So and I also I
did see Mama Mia, here we go again, thank you
a few nights ago, and also don't like it, don't
find it. Removing Meryl Streep was a mistake for sure.
Do you think she was just unwilling to do it again? Well,

(13:13):
she's my guest. Yes, she's in the movie for one scene,
for a scene at the end. She's one scene. She's
taping Doubt to movie and Philip seymore hoff is just
like a hologram. Well, it's kind of like how they
killed off Meryl Streep while the priest died, so we

(13:33):
had to find a new source of dramatic flashion too.
It's mostly about Amy Adams Meryl Streeps starting a new religion.
Pretty cool to This movie comes out this same year
as Doubt, So Meryl I like to think Doubt was
filmed first, and you know, because that's the kind of
movie that she probably made like six dollars for. And

(13:55):
she's just screaming it's at Hoffman all day long, does
a real heavy stuff and then she's like, God, I'm exhausted.
Let me just I wish someone would pay me a
billion dollars to hang out in Greece and not really
try the one thing I want to say about Mama
Mia too is that this is not a spoiler, but
there is a direct Titanic reference in the movie where

(14:19):
Colin Firth and Stolen Scars Guard are on the front
of a boat. One is behind the other one. The
one in front has his arms outstretched and it's just
like the Jack and Rowse scene. It's the most beautiful
homo erotic scene in a straight movie against such a gift.
The whole sequence reminds me of Fast and the Furious.
If we're being honest, this has been suggested to us

(14:43):
by former uh for us because a former friend of
the pot my fucking enemy, no, former guest of the
pod or love has really repeatedly flooded my phone with
a demand for all eight asked movies reviewed in one episode,

(15:03):
which would be a hell of an episode. No no, no, no,
no no no, Sophie saying no, I'm just narrating movement.
No no, no, no, Sophie seems to be really not
loving this. But in in my my counterpoint is I
did watch all the Lord of the Rings movie and
that was the trial of a lifetime. Yes, so we'll

(15:23):
be on the lookout for our Lord of the Rings episode,
but okay, so I'll do the recap of Mamma Mia.
So the story of Mamma Mia two thousand and eight
is Sophie. That's Amanda Seafried's character flesh Air. She old
flesh Air. She lives on a Greek island called Kalakari

(15:47):
with her mom Donna that's Meryl Streep, at a hotel
that they run together and her and Meryl Streep is
beautiful but also busted hotel, yes, And Sophie is about
to get married, but Sophie does not know who her
father is and she's like, who's going to give me
away at the wedding? But then she finds her mom's

(16:09):
diary that she kept during the year that she was
pregnant with Sophie and gets so excited about her mom
fucking in a way that is like, Okay, it's not
like you shouldn't like not want your mom to have sex,
but there is a threshold of like, your way too
excited that your mom is like she It's like, yeah,
your mom, you know, really cleaned up that summer, but

(16:30):
why are you Like She's like, yeah, I think it's
the tone of the movie right out the top of
women are so fucking horny in this movie, even for
their own moms. Okay. So she finds this diary, and
in the diary, Donna tells the story of three different

(16:51):
guys that she slept with over the course of a
very short amount of time. So these are the three
raw dogs. Yes, oh, it was a raw summer, very
rang not a piece of contraception insight. Okay. The timeline
of this movie is very funny to me because if
we're taking the lyrics at face value, later on, when

(17:12):
they're like, you go, Meryl, it's good that you know
you should sleep with whoever you want, they use dancing
Queen Young and Sweet only seventeen, which would imply that
Meryl Streep is thirty seven in this movie because her right,
don't pay attention to the timeline. You're going to ruin it.
Don't even think about it. Mert seven years old? Right, yeah? Okay, bit,

(17:34):
she's thirty seven. A lot of sun exposure and crazy. Um.
So she finds a diary and in it it tells
of Sam, Bill and Harry, and these are the three
people who might be Sophie's father. So Sophie sends out
wedding invitations to all three of them. She somehow knows

(17:56):
their addresses even though her mom, Donna, has spoken to
them in twenty years. She's a hacker, she hacked, she
fully hacked. Amanda Seafreys husband is kind of a hacker.
And then although I do think he is just using squarespace,
he's like, I'm making a website. It's really clean looking.

(18:20):
So Sophie invites all three of these men to the wedding,
and then we see a montage scene of them dropping
literally everything that they're doing and rushing to their respective
airports to get to this wedding. But they think Donna
invited them, so they dropped everything to try to fuck. Yeah, woman,
they haven't sucked in twenty years. That it is so

(18:43):
weird that all of them, like the men in this movie,
are extremely docile like and very obedient to the point
where it is kind of irrational, where it's like, wait,
you just showed up. Yeah, they're safe men, the super
their allies are. They're extremely unhinged in it. I would

(19:03):
be like, hey, do you mind sailing across? They're holding
a very tiny boat together, like it's clearly not easy
to get there, and they're like yeah, sure they might have.
They well, everyone sucks in this movie, I'm pretty sure
for sure. So Sophie wants to figure out which of
these three guys is her father, so she invites them
all to the wedding under the pretense that it was

(19:23):
Donna who invited them, right, And they arrive and they're like, oh,
we're here to see Donna, and Sophie's like, no, you
can't see her yet, and then whatever your hair. Donna
finds out that they're there, she pitches a horny fit. Basically,
I love that horny fit. She's underneath the fucking floor

(19:45):
boards and it's like, I'm so horny. This is my
worst nightmare. And also getting too horny getting horne is
my worst nightmare. I haven't done it before, and I'm scared.
There's no I I used to have this dream that
everyone I've ever had sex with would just like be
having brunch without me, and I would have nightmare. That's

(20:07):
the nightmare. But that's basically kind of what happens, where
like three guys she had sex with who she didn't
think knew each other are all there twenty years later,
and she's freaked out by it. But she doesn't ask
a lot of questions. No. Well, again, almost nothing in
this story makes sense. It's also the gohouse scene is
where they start incorporating this like very often on Greek

(20:30):
chorus theme they have going on through Yeah you just
pop out of nowhere, and like part of the scene,
all the locals are like, hey, we're saying the only
vaguely non white people in the movie, who I'm pretty
sure are all actually white. Still, there's not a single
Grecian person in this movie. No, I feel I feel
like the only Grecian people are used very much as

(20:50):
set dressing, Like as is the unfortunate trend in movies
like this, where they're like, let's just put a bunch
of extremely Caucasian people and then we'll have people who
live there but holding the chickens, not speaking roles, they're
having things thrown at them. They work for the white people,
and that is mostly unfortunately how that goes. Same in

(21:11):
the second one, if anyone's keeping track, they learned nothing
as long as no one learned anything, Okay, So then
the dads are there and Sophie's like, let's spend the
day together, and then throughout the course of like because
her wedding is the following day. So throughout the course
of this like twenty four hours, she spends time with them.
She's kind of like has like a one on one
moment with each of them. And during those moments, each

(21:34):
of the men Bill, Harry and Um Sam are like,
wait a minute, I'm your father, aren't I, And She's like,
I d K. And then she's like yeah, right, literally
never yeah. So much confusion is created where she anytime
someone's like, am I your dad, she says yes, are
you Yeah? And then they later the reverse happens where

(21:58):
they run up to her they're like, I'm your dad,
and she's like, oh, yeah, this three times right, So
she doesn't know. And then meanwhile like Donna is like,
why are these dad's here? I don't like Sophie can
never find out. And then so like it's this whole
comedy of errors kind of thing where it's like I
don't know that she knows, and she doesn't know that
I know, and blah blah blah blah blah. And then

(22:19):
finally at the end, during the wedding of Sophie and
her Sky. So then at the wedding, all the dads
are like yeah, I might be your dad, but we
don't need to need to know you're our daughter anyway.
And Donna is like, yeah, everything's great and everything, and
then Sophie decides not to get married after all. But

(22:41):
then Pierce bross like, why waste a good wedding, So
then Pierce Brosnan, who is, uh, yeah, Sam was a
good wedding, Donna, and then they get married, and then
then there's some more songs and that is the end
of the movie. It's another thing I love about movies.
I love this nature as they take twelve minutes stand

(23:03):
for no reason for sure. So let's take a quick
break and then we'll come back for the discussion and
we're back. I was starting the song Mama Mia. Yeah, okay,
I know, I gotta go to that like weird it

(23:26):
like boom bum bum bum bum boom. It's kind of
like because it's scary. It's a scary chord. The cool
thing they did. They're cool songwriter, They're cool. The A's
were married to the Bees was in the movie. I'm
so mad about all this. Yeah, they should be called

(23:48):
bah Bah. It takes place in New Jersey. I'm on board.
It's trying to who owns the spaghetti restaurant? Like, what

(24:12):
is Papa boot here? I go? I get why? Why?
Where's the bust of meat? I want to meet sandwiches? Okay,

(24:33):
call back to point break. All right, So this is
our unhinged say I think I'm the reason. I'm so sorry.
I'm cuts. I'm so sorry. I sucked it out. I
brought my notes and they're really bad. This is a

(24:55):
safe place. No one ever brings notes. This is thrilling.
Oh that's so great. So I kind of the first
time I saw this, I like kind of when I
watched and I was like, I don't even know what
I'm going to say about this, Like what are my
talking points? And then one of our fans tweeted at
us with tweets from Keiley Flattery. Who is that someone? Yeah? Uh,

(25:22):
she tweeted the yes MoMA Mia is a fun and
fluffy musical, but also the story is about a working
single mother. It's about sex positivity. It's about the importance
and longevity of female friendships. It's about dismantling the pressure
placed on people, especially women, to get married. Also, well
we'll debate that. And it's about an imperfect but deeply

(25:46):
loving relationship between a mother and a daughter. It's men
excited to embrace their role as father's it's men's father
figures showing up for and prioritizing their daughter, and it's
about the beauty of non traditional family's. So I was like, Okay, this,
I can kind of use some of these as sort
of the basis that's I think that that's maybe a

(26:06):
little bit too nice, but but definitely all of those
are grounded in what happens in the movie. And on
the oh serious note, this is like one of those
weird movies that I feel like these kinds of movies
always do so well internationally because like a lot of
movies we've been covering recently, there are hints of female
empowerment and sex positivity, but the conclusion of the movie

(26:29):
is always very heteronormative of like we're getting married and
like literally every woman given attention in the story. So
I'm like kind of counting out, uh, Fleshheads friends because
I really want to see them at the beginning, and
they're not the second one. They're they're not yeah, like
they're they like they're not really characters, but like the

(26:49):
four main women, Amanda Meryl Christine, Ron Weasley's mom, right,
those are their character names and all of them by
the end, and I was like, oh, maybe Ron Weasley's
mom will get to be single, but they don't. I mean,
every single one of those women ends up with a guy,
or it's implied that they're going to end up with
a guy, and there's all an there's a song for

(27:10):
all of them about how they're gonna end up with
a guy. Meryl, who is like the most sex positive
character in the movie, is you know, married to But
I don't know. I just like I feel like it
goes in the right direction. And then at the end
it just reached us kind of the obvious hetero normative conclusion. Well,
I mean, you're forgetting called Firth does say he's gay
and end up with a man hetero that's true. That yeah,

(27:33):
that's true. And I also will say a bone to
pick with that tweet is that stolen scars guards the
whole end of movie arc here is that he's like,
I don't want to be a dad at all. I'm
not ready for this. That's true. So I don't know
about the last third guy right right right, But to me,
instead of run Weasley's mom. She is Mrs Bird from
Paddington and Paddington two. So that's really how I'm gonna

(27:56):
classify her. But I'm calling her not Tracy Ullman. Okay,
everyone has an interesting take on this woman. She she
is great in this movie, and Christine make the movie
they really like, give us that. Yeah, I would like
that movie, but Christine Branski is wonderful. Christine Baranski hints
at her own semi obvious plastic surgery and one shot

(28:19):
of this where she pulls her face back the whole
plot point. Yeah, like making fun of her for all
the work she's had done. And then when she sees
a man of cipher, she's like, you probably don't recognize
me because your face is so different. That's like, can
we stop subtweeting Christine please? She seems game for it,
I know, and her back muscles were amazing. I love
her and The Good Wife and The Good Fight and

(28:40):
other Grench so Christmas and Chicago and wells an't love
it all. Both Finger is my favorite movie that she's in.
So Christine Branski and Mrs Bird, Yeah let's start, are
Donna's two best friends, and they appear again in the
sequel and then we all love it and shows have
a great time. I feel like they passed right at

(29:02):
the top when she's rausing her about the cookbook on
the boat, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of their
stuff does. So yeah, it's a great female friendship. I think, Um,
there's really nothing coming between them. They're all like, well,
why didn't you tell us about like who? But other
than that, there's like not that much tension in the

(29:22):
story between them. It's just like all positivity. They had.
The few conflicts that come up sort of end with
the other two like lifting her up where there are
times where and this didn't even totally miss for me,
but like when Donna Merrill occasionally expresses like regret or

(29:43):
shame or feeling bad about herself or fearing that her
daughter will judge her because her daughter is sort of
like more conservative and traditional than her mom is. But
every time that happens, her two friends are like, no,
you're great, like you were so hot and fun and
then they sing dancing Queen and anytime like my earl's
feeling like, they do the friend thing and they're like, no,
you're you're the best, and you fucked so much and

(30:04):
we thought that was awesome. Yeah, you raw dogged hard summer.
And then and then Meryl's like, you know what, I
did raw dog a lot that summer. And then she
starts to dance on the bed and I was like
this rules. Yeah. So it's like women uplifting other women.
That's very nice dancing. I don't think it mentions young,
does it? Yeah? I think I think a lot of

(30:26):
it does. At least they're exchanges that do. But it's
weird because like in this movie, they give random characters
they I love how they it's such everything as a
reach in terms of contextualizing it. Where the end of Honey, Honey,
where it's like all about her mom sucking, at the end,
it's like, but I wish I had a daddy. At
the end, you're just like they missed me with that.

(30:49):
I think that is one of the big problems that
I have with this movie is that it's a story
driven by Sophie desperately knee to know who her father
is and feeling emptiness because she does not have a
father in her life. I think Sophie is like my
least favorite character in the movie's she super sucks. Not

(31:11):
that it's like fiance is like I don't really want
to get married, can we please not? And her mom's like, hey,
why are you doing this? And she's like, fuck you,
I'm around. I'm establishing a ruse here. This is the
lamest parent trap ever. It's like, I literally is. And
that's not to say like if you don't know who
one of your parents is, it's okay that that could
bother you. Like that's logical, that's fine. But the way

(31:34):
she goes about it just you know, she's like, oh,
this is the key, and that's not really thoroughly challenged. Yeah.
I think her like she said something like I need
I need to know who my dad is in order
to feel complete. Direct quote from the movie is that
I feel like there's a part of me missing. And
I think at one point Sky, her fiance, says something

(31:55):
like no, you, like you just need to figure your
own self out, Like knowing who you're dad isn't going
to like help you find yourself. Like you have to
find yourself because you already have a family, right, Yeah,
So like that, but I think that's the extent to
which that goes challenged. The end, her whole arc is
realizing the air of her ways. She ends up why

(32:16):
did I need a dad? I've had you this whole time,
you give me away at the wedding. But then it's
also like why do I need a dad? I have
three dads now, So it's like I feel like the
message wasn't like my mom was enough the whole time.
It was like wedding, yeah, but then the monk gets married.
I don't know well again, so so much in this

(32:36):
movie doesn't make like characters reactions to things often don't
make sense, but the story is written that way to
serve the next song that's coming up, So like I
feel like a discussion that we would like usually have
in an episode like this, we're just like, well, it
doesn't even make any sense, Like he didn't make it,
Like it's just a series of setups for another avid song.

(32:56):
But but like building a movie around the theme of
like the very regressive giving away, like one man gives
you a way to another man, and it's like, no,
my mom going to give me away to another man.
But then but then she doesn't get married. I think
Scott should dump her personally because she's not awesome. It
seems like, you know, Sky's here, He's got his Squarespace account.

(33:17):
He seems to really care about her. He's helpful, he
goes along with her family, and she's always like I'm
scamming people and I'm mad and I'm yelling at my mom. Yeah,
she is like rather than like just talking to anyone
about what's troubling her, Like, instead of being like, hey, mom,
could you maybe give me a little more information about

(33:39):
who my father might be, she like steals her diary
reads it, which is like a huge violation of her
mom's privacy. Then goes through the trouble of like inviting
those guys, like she doesn't know how those relationships like
panned out or like how they ended, like they might
have like who knows. Now she actually knows that Sam
like cheated on his fiance with her mom and that's

(34:00):
how they watched things and she invited him anyway, that's right. Yeah,
that's really mean to your mom. It's very selfish what
she's doing, Like instead of because and maybe I really
because there were some moments of watching this movie where
I was just smiling so much so I don't think
I was fully listening. Does she ever reference ever being

(34:21):
like and I asked my mom who my father was,
and she said, no, I'm never going to tell you,
and that's why she's scamming. At the very beginning, she
says something to the effect that Donna had told her like, oh,
it was just a summer romance and that's all. She's like,
and I came to accept that that's all I'd ever know.
And then when she finds this diary, she's like, oh,
I can use this to like piece together the puzzle,

(34:43):
but it is supposed to be and reveal at the
end at the altar when real strips like I don't
know which one it is that's supposed to be news,
but like de dot, you don't know, Like how about
a surprise? Like we put that together as viewers in
the first scene there it is weird. I don't know.
I mean to an extent like you're saying, Caitlin, like
tearing apart. The plot of this movie is like pointless.

(35:04):
It is fun, but it is also pointless. But yeah,
like the thing it was like she could she's she's
an adult, she could go up to her mom and
be like, Hey, I'm getting married, and I'm like sorry,
if this makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to answer.
But like do you know who my father is? We're
led to believe they have a good relationship, but I
will say we see them together very little, and when

(35:25):
they are together, there's like seems to do some animosity
between each other because it seems like Donna disapproves of
this wedding and of her getting married to Sky. She
for sure does, yeah, but then it's all remedied with
slipping through my fingers. That's like the big moment of like, fuck,
I just I don't want you to grow up. That's
what this really is. I love you, and she's like
really here. I did like that. I don't know. I

(35:46):
like that scene. It made me cry. And anything about
Mama that made you cry, Yeah, I cried when rail
strip cannonballed off the dock in the fake SloMo like
they couldn't afford to hire frame rate what the book was?
Just like that passes the beds, A cannonball passes the lady,

(36:08):
throwing her sticks in the air and joining the dancing
congo line. That passes. Yes, does she come back in
the second movie? I feel like there's a quick reference
to her. She doesn't the oh my god, but there
is the just to close the leap on the mother
daughter relationship. It is weird and all over the place,
as is all of this movie. I did like at

(36:30):
the end where one of the few coherent themes of
this was Meryl straight fearing being judged by her own
daughter for past promiscuity. That is like a definite thing
that we know that she's worried about her daughter learning
about and passing Jack. And I do close that loop,
like right before the fucking nuts wedding not wedding scene

(36:52):
where Meryl like kind of directly asked her like She's like,
I'm sorry, and like, do you hate me because I
funk a lot? Which is passive aggressive, but and then
was like, no, you can funk whoever you are, and
you have my mom. I think she even says you
can have sex with a hundred people and I wouldn't care.
And the priest is like, yeah, I know. I was

(37:14):
like that. I was like, did you fuck the priest?
But but it seems nice And and then Amanda sy
freeds like you give me away? And then I did, right,
and oh dude, then you're gonna ball on the second one. No,
I I do like I know that you don't like
wedding culture. I like, I love I love country, I

(37:36):
like looking at every never. Well, let's take a quick
break and then we'll be right back with my hot
takes about wedding wish Welcome back. Everyone knows the meat.

(38:01):
Oh I really quickly, I do want to say about
So here are my problems with weddings, and then we
can move on to something else. M r as are
about to slide it in. Get ready. Well, you know what,
if m r as don't hate us, then we're not
We're not doing a good job, I think. So weddings,
traditional hetero weddings are steeped in pretty sexist traditions where

(38:28):
it's like, oh, my daughter is property and I the father,
have to give her literally away, right, I have to
give you four hundred goats to get rid of this fit.
So the fact that we maintain that tradition in contemporary

(38:49):
weddings is really baffling to me. That's another thing that
made me not like Sophie, because I don't I don't
have a problem with what I mean. I understand that
wedding culture and marriage is inherently patriarchal and and regressive,
but Sophie's character is like, it's so weird where this

(39:10):
is this was the amount where I was like Sky
should dump her where basically he calls her out where
and I hate taking on then side on literally anything,
but I am sort of like team Sky on this
one because he also says that he's like, listen, I
didn't want to get married and I put my life
on hold because I love you, and this is what
you said you wanted. And now it turns out that

(39:31):
you were just throwing a big fucking parent trap that
has nothing to do with me. And she's like, so
that love me, and he was like, no, I do,
but why did you turn this thing into a parent trap?
And you spent all our money on a parent trap?
And that's frustrating. That's a frustrating quality in a mate
much like Disney's The Parent Trap, where Lindsay Lohan, one
of the characters, is like, I'm not going to be

(39:53):
complete until I've met my father because a daddy is
such a crucial part of a girl's life. And it
like that movie still goes both ways where it's also
parent to desire in this movie, like she already has
a very strong bond with her mother. She has seems
like good relationships with her mother's friends is unclear how
often she sees them every time do you remember me?

(40:20):
But it seems like between Sophie's mom and Sky, she
has at least a couple of loving relationships. So it's
just a little unclear to me why she feels so
empty and so incomplete by not knowing who her dad is.
And again that might that's her. Like, I wouldn't want

(40:40):
to make anyone like if I mean, I don't I
was lucky enough to grow up with both my parents,
so I wouldn't know what it's like to have a
missing parent, and like it sounds like there's a level
of trauma for that for depending on who you are.
Based on Star Wars, I think it's a pretty big deal. Yeah, exactly.
And if we are using that as her yard stick, now,
I know plenty of people, though, who grew up with

(41:02):
a single parent and they don't seem to be pining,
But did they not know who their other parent is?
Because I think that's the component that seems to be
key in Star Wars and was my parents two yardsticks there?
I just I just like I wouldn't want to like
shame anyone for like, because I think that that is

(41:24):
a rational feeling, but the way the story plays it
out is a little bit it doesn't challenge. Yeah, I
understand the feeling. What I think I'm bothered by is
her explaining that she feels incomplete, like she needs a
man in her life as a father figure, and not
having that makes her feel incomplete. Like the the implication

(41:46):
is me, as a woman, in order to feel complete,
there needs to be a male presence there, and that's
what is like I'm having trouble with. I didn't get that.
I mean, I think technically it's probably true on paper,
but I sense that it was as a matter of
I want to know who both my parents are. It
didn't feel inherently like because she never even says like

(42:06):
no one was there to teach me how to change
a tire, Like there was no allusion to like I
need a man like. I really didn't get that. And
from when I got from Sky, it sounds like they
met while he was traveling and he just like stopped
on an island was like, Hey, I'm gonna stay I guess,
and marry her. Yeah. So like I get the sense
that it's always been her and her mom, and that's
not been an issue, but now that she's getting married,
it's like, well, I kind of do want to know

(42:27):
who my dad is, though right I don't know the
female stuff so strong in this movie. I didn't really
feel like it was a matter of like we need
man And in fact, Christine's storyline to me was like
the exact opposite. She's like, I just want to fuck
and I don't care about man. I it's it's weird
where this whole story is weird. I don't prograbe someone
for wanting to know who about their parents are, but

(42:49):
it is like, I do see what you're saying, Caitlin,
with like the feeling of and I feel like Meryl
Streep's character even kind of articulates this a little bit
of like I understand that you want to know who
your dad is, but it does make me feel bad
that you feel such a gaping hole in your life
when I tried really hard, but they sort of seemed
to resolve that by the end. And then there's a
Meryl Streep has a great line, even though the storyline

(43:12):
doesn't really end up reflecting it at all. But like
when I guess like Pierce Browsnon is supposed to be
her one true love, which is I've never seen less
chemist stream between two people in my whole life than
Meryl Stream and Pierce brawsnon howling like wolverines at the
top of a Grecian mountain to what's the fucking song?

(43:34):
But it's like a really that shot is also impressive.
I will say that is a good shot. It's a
good shot. But Pierce Browson and Meryl Streep are so
physically far away from each other and singing and not
making and they re arranged it. I hate it. They
don't abandon but the pierced thing. Okay, so she sees
him again and it took me a while to figure

(43:55):
out he was the true love, which it makes sense,
but anyways, I didn't. I didn't figure it out until
he's like, He's like, I've loved you this whole Like
to me, there's nothing that really clearly indicates it's journal.
That's why they make called Firth game because it's like,
let's just take him off the table so you don't
feel bad for him. Car Scard's a drunk, he's a
man the whole time, like I don't want to be here,

(44:16):
I'm going to leave. And then Ron Weasley's moms like, no,
you ate because cars kind of feel like disappears from
the movie for a solid forty minutes. I forgot I
was here. I wanted to see a quivering There's something
about Colin Firth w It's like it just always he's
acting like he's always someone's just throwing a bucket of
water out to him, or he's just quivering. That's why

(44:37):
he had like a bad way though. Right, I'm just like,
you're so I'm going to fix You're going to fix you,
you poor puppy. But Meryl and Pearce are having some
sort of confrontation and you're like, sure, we're doing this,
but she's said like he's like, what you didn't And
none of the men say anything outright misogynists, but they're

(44:58):
sort of like Meryl streeps magical vagina makes anyone fall
in love with her for decades, like it's just a thing,
And can you imagine knowing someone for a week twenty
years ago and still considering them like a viable part
of her dingy and watch my daughter get married. He's like,
why didn't call him for it? Even go? But anyway,

(45:19):
she says, I love being on my own. I wake
up every morning and I thank God for not having
a middle aged menopozzle man blah blah blah, and I'm
single and it's great, which is great, but when she's
saying it, you can tell that she's like, she doesn't
really feel that way. Well, then she sings money money
and talks about how much she wants to just marry
a rich man. This is actually and they do another
Titanic reference, do they? I mean, no one's holding her,

(45:42):
but she's doing she just love Titanic in that's her
I'm the King of the World moment is so weird too,
because that number starts with her breaking one of her
own windows, and then she goes down to pick up
the window, and then people start throwing money and you're like,
what are they giving again? It's like this recoursing they

(46:03):
do for one third of the movie and they're like,
never mind. There was like we're Greek people only available
for because there's sometimes where her like hotel whatever it
is seems full of people and employees, guests not sure,
and then other times where it's abandoned because the squirre

(46:24):
space has taken a while. Oh wait, there is a
full on blooper just in the middle of the scene
that they keep in there. It was just like they
did one take. It's when um Christine Bransky, Meryl Streep
and Mrs Bird. Christine's like, oh, I know that you're
going to make a fortune with webs. Webs. Oh no,

(46:48):
she meant to say Sky's website, but she says webs
and then they like make fun of her for and
like it's clear that it was like not in the script,
and she just like bloopered the hell out of that,
and then love script really yeah, was like I know,
the exact scene on the bench like drinking in the morning,
and I was like, Wow, they're like really good at
seeming authentic. Maybe she's that good. I don't know, why

(47:09):
would she Why would that that serve no purpose? Like
I think there was just establishing friendship. I don't know.
It seemed like a really good choice to me. I
was like, I believe it now. Well then, I mean
because they laughed together and they're like, I'm pretty sure
that's a blooper and they just left it in. But
I would say that most of the like explicitly problematic

(47:30):
things that get said or like moments in the movie
come in the form of an Abba song where like
the one you were talking about, where she was like,
all I want to do is just find a rich
man to marry to take care of me. And it's
like that's not really what's not And then I felt
okay and not to stand out for like I thought
the nature that that number was kind of playful and dumb,
and in context I don't think I wasn't like, oh,

(47:53):
this is sending a bad message because she didn't really
mean it, and everything she says afterwards indicates that she
didn't really mean it. She's like, yeah, I'd be great
if someone just like gave me a ton of fucking money.
I say that all the time, though I'm always like, yeah,
I wish that some loser would give me a billion
dollars so I could do whatever the funk I want. Well,
what I'm saying is that, unlike a lot of movies
we covered, there's no like explicitly problematic things that get

(48:14):
said throughout the course of the movie except four and
songs that are thirty years old. Like there's another moment
rter On where it's when Sky is singing and he's
all like, I'm possessive and every man I see is
a potential threat. Yeah, that's the porno scene. That's that's
where they're fully fun on the beach. But he's basically
saying it's kind of like Babba Boy's problem, right, Like

(48:36):
that's ABBA's problem and not the Movi. It makes no
sense for his ark or their storyline at all. I
think he just couldn't shoehorn in that song. So they're like,
I don't know, this guy can't sing at all. There's
a lot of God when they're like, let's send Baranski
and Weasley's mom acapella. We ran out of studio musicians. Listen,
the guy with the zylophone sick. They're gonna have to

(48:58):
go acapella today. They also to the top of super Trooper.
The outfits and super Trooper are from Ricky in the
flash that. I was very excited because when we talked
about it the other day, Kail and You're like, I
know it's in the first it's in one of them,
but I don't remember which one. And I was like, oh,
I hope the first one, and it is the first one,

(49:19):
and it's it's back in the second one for the
credit sequence. The credit sequences in both movies are worth
a watch. Super Trooper is great, especially because the men
wear them too, and they kind of have this like
sheepist expression, like they're like this is kind of gay,
huh boys, but like they love it anyway. They have
like a no, yeah, okay, but it's like barely there.
And I feel like usually that's all that's there. When

(49:40):
you put straight men in like full on jumpsuits with
frilly sleeves, that is such like an international movie, I mean,
and I think that that is something we don't talk
a lot about on this podcast that does make a
difference where it's like this movie was hugely let me
let me look up exactly how hugely successful, but it was.
It was a big international movie. And I feel like
with movies that are intended to do really well internationally,

(50:04):
it is very frequently like they will only hint at
progressiveness and they won't go all the way out because
they're like, well, then China will not show it in theaters.
You need in terms of like having like Harry be
identifiably queer in the movie, although he does not kiss
his partner at the end, the only hugs. It's very
weird it's like that where it's like by the end

(50:27):
of this movie, all the hetero people are literally soaking
wet and fucking and they're talking and the same the
same with and this goes into like what we were
talking about yesterday with like the vague like nineties two
thousands still sometimes now like you go girl freedom and
progressiveness and you know, like pro woman stuff. But then

(50:50):
also you still have to get married at the end.
And that's I don't know. I mean that those are
the movies that do well internationally, right because I mean
that's just like the Hollywood narrative, you know, is not
a hit in China. I would throw in the mix
to that theory that perhaps musicals just do well internationally
because that's it's a visual thing. There's less nuance lost

(51:12):
in translation, and that's jobbing and stuff. This movie costs
fifty two million dollars, made six hundred fifteen million dollars. Dude,
why don't we have eight mama? I know it made
a ton of money, but like with Harry's character, there's
a scene where he tries to come out to build

(51:32):
there in the boat and he's trying to come out
and then they ends up there talking about different things,
and then I thought he wasn't trying to come out.
I thought he was trying to tell him about Sophie
and Stone Scars. Guards thinking he's trying to come out,
and then they throw in the actual thing is like
a bit almost. It's unclear exactly because I interpreted as
him trying to come out. Maybe I don't know. It's

(51:55):
it's very unclear. But in any case, at the very
end he does he's like, oh no, I have a
reason to say, and he looks to like this handsome
guy who's like sitting at the wedding, and then they
have a hug at the end, but yeah, like a
light hug. Right, So it's it's representation on screen of
an identifiably queer person, but it's so glossed over and

(52:19):
we don't Yeah, we don't get to see a kiss.
We don't, but because we do get to see Bill
and Mrs Bird kiss a lot, which I do enjoy
that it's like old Usually we don't see older people
like get to be sexual on screen, like I wish
we would a more. Made me so horny. Oh my god,
that that wild scene that with the pigeont I was

(52:42):
fucking wet dude. But when we're Baranski is like in
a beach full of young people and it's like I
could fuck all of you, and like that's the whole song.
She's just kind of like wanting to fund a whole
beach full of people, not going to date any of you.
Yeah we will only that's great. And then there's that

(53:04):
one day in particular, who seems to be really into her.
She blows, she does suck him. Yeah, she sucked him
on the batchelbat party night, and then the next morning
he's like, hey, how about it. She's like, no, no, no,
I was drunk. We're not talking about is that you
need to know? He does, but she actually ties a
towel into a diaper around him instead to show that
he's a baby. It's a big mystery. He is the

(53:24):
same man that says now baby right, that's his first
auction into the film, in case you were trying to
track it. Well. So so he's like a good two
to three decades younger than he's I'm pretty sure like seven. Yeah,
he's extremely and again unclear how old like Meryl and

(53:47):
her friends are, because it's that would have to be
when happened unclear, but yeah, so we see like Christie
being romantically involved with a much younger guy. Usually we
don't see that in movies. Usually it's Tom Cruise who's
fifty five, and then you know a woman who's twenty five,

(54:11):
or you know, any combination of older actors and much
younger Meryl might even be older than Pierce. I think
Meryl sixty nine. She don't know how old pierces. I
want to say, like sixty three. She's older than all
three of her love interests in this movie. She's born
forty nine. I think that respectively. I don't know who
is who, but it's like fifty three sixty. Colin Firth

(54:32):
is eleven years younger than her. So uh, fucking swish
for Meryl and then wish for Colin first. I mean,
everyone wins, right, we're right in this funk pile, we
all holes a hole and then the funk pile between
Mrs Bird, whose character's name is actually Rosie Rosie and

(54:52):
t right. Yeah, oh yeah, that's that's um right. But
Rosie is going after her bill and aggressive, very aggressively,
Like if the genders were reversed, we'd be freaked out. Yeah,
so she's pursuing him, and again, he don't often see
a woman pursuing, especially that she actually gets him and

(55:13):
she gets him because he like, usually if a woman
is pursuing, it's to be like creepy, gross, hag, won't
leave me alone. But it's actually like she knows what
she wants. They can kiss a lot, and they're like,
she does have to chase it around the entire villa first,
and you have a near death experience, but it pays off. Again,

(55:35):
we can't there's so much of this movie that we
can't really take a phase value because nothing makes sense
and it's so silly and nothing makes sense. But the
things that do happen, it's like, okay, like older people
like being sexual. That's pretty cool. An older woman and
a younger guy like, that's pretty cool. Harry. I want
to go back to Harry and like Harry Headbanger. Of course,

(55:57):
Harry Headbanger, Like I get it. They have to appeal
to international markets and it's two thousand eight, you know
this is still a time where and not to say
that couldn't win American at all, it was at different times.
So it's really only like a tiny glimpse or a
hint of queerness, whisper a whisper of a whisper of queerness.

(56:22):
Because we spent so much time on like Bill and
Mrs Bird. Mrs Bird like picking up Bill with her
talents because she's a literal bird. But I don't know, um,
And we spend a lot of time on Sam and
Donna ending up together at the end, but we can't

(56:44):
spend any time on Harry exploring his sexuality. Well, I
feel like it's not dealt with horribly, but it's like
to an extent, And I'm sure, and I haven't seen
the musical, but I would wager guess that this would
be even more agreed just in the musical, just because
it's older that him being queer is almost like a punchline,
just to take him out of the running, as it

(57:06):
were for Meryl's heart. Um, but I don't know, I
even seen a musical and I don't remember how that
plays out, but I want to see it. Yeah, So
what we have liked to have seen more than what
we're given? Sure? Is that a question? Is that real question?
I would always like to see more queerness, right, I
will not rest until every single person, both actors and

(57:28):
characters are queer movies. Imagine how awesome and all queer
person of MoMA Meo would be. It would be it
basically is, so why not just let it be? You know, Yes,
I want to three between Mrs Weasley. Yeah, it should
be like a young trans person who's like, I want
to know which like sperm donor like only to see

(57:52):
it if I'm going to get Alzheimer's right, very practical. Yeah,
that should be the story. And I also want to
talk about how the reviews for this movie versus Mama
Mia Here we Go Again. On run Tomatoes, it only
got a fifty fresh so critical audio not critics. So

(58:18):
critics did not especially like this movie was about half
and half where they were like, it's okay and the
other ones were like boo, but MoMA Mia Here we
Go Again. As of this recording has an eight percent
fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and critics. So people have been
pointing that, and it's not. It's not as though Mama

(58:39):
Mia Here we Go Again is a much better movie.
Would say Mama far worse based alone on the fact
that Meryl Streep is not really in it was the
only Meryl Streep is good in one is because it's
Meryl Streep. But Mama Me and Here We Go Again
does have Fernando in it, making it the better movie.
But yeah, but I do want to see that movie now,

(59:01):
but you have to, I do. Yeah, I mean, now
that I've really loved the first one, I'm like, Doubt
Too Better be good. You know, if you skip MoMA
Mia to Doubt to Better be a sucking banger. So
the point is people are talking about how it's not
as another sequel is any better. It's just that, like
the cultural landscape, it's that Donald Trump is president. People

(59:23):
need to feel happy more. And I think it's just
like critics are a little more tolerant of like a
female driven story about a woman who humps a bunch
of guys. Okay, humps, that is an attack. I can't
believe you just use that word. I love hump. I
will leave because like many filmmakers are straight white men,

(59:49):
so are many movie critics. So I know, I don't know.
I just wanted to point out the disparity between like
the fresh and rotten ratings, like in this ten year
between the two movies coming out, and it's not as
though the sequel is that much better. I think it's
just that we're seeing like a little bit of a
shift happening in our landscape. Yeah, I agree that, like

(01:00:13):
the criticism, landscape is shifting. And also there's more like
not to two to rown fucking horn. Sorry, but there
are more like there are other outlets to to talk
about movies now that there weren't in two thousand and eight,
including uh you like I mean two that's like o
G podcast so and that's like we're first lock in
the gates, you know. Yeah, well, I think this movie

(01:00:38):
is my favorite movie. I love to listen. I'm not
as saying to say I love to feel good. Yeah,
I love a feel good movie. I like to feel good.
I can't usually feel the way I feel after watching
Mamma Mia or Mama Mia to here we go Again
without a lot of drugs or Bubba booty or is

(01:00:58):
that the word that we were for whenever we have
to make up or baba. Yeah, this movie makes me
ends and I go, well, bub they did go again.
This is maybe Meryl's best year. I mean, she's on
one hand, in the summer, she's mom, She's Bubba buy Yeah.

(01:01:19):
By winter from winter, she's doubting up a storm, she
brings Mama, and then fall is Julia and Julia. That's
the Meryl spectrum. Like on a scale of Donna to lady,
what's her name, sister Allowish, sister aloishes, listen, I I
stand for sister Elowishes. Don't get me wrong, make them

(01:01:42):
voice go local. Thank you for seeing me. That crowns limb.
So that's everything I had. I think I have so
much more. How we have an hour? How many? fIF
three more hours? I would just like to add my

(01:02:02):
one thing that um, women are horny, triple underline horny.
That's um. I think that's the thesis of mom and
MEA one and momvia to Actually I think so, yeah,
I would. I would argue that this movie is, for
the most part pretty sex positive. There is a moment
where Donna slut shames herself by literally calling herself as

(01:02:23):
and I love self slating. Does that mean masturating? I
think I'm a slut for me? No, I like, I
mean we're on the hat sluts what top network right now?
So I don't know. The fucking friends immediately are like, no,
that sounds like your mom, which betrays the second one,

(01:02:44):
in which the moms share and I think actually share
in the universe. I'm not totally sure because she's like
in this one. In the first one, they say, a
my mom's dead, be my mom was Catholic. She put
so much Catholic. You'll tell me that when she found
out was pregnant, I wasn't allowed to come home, which
is why I'm all in Callicari or whatever the book
it's called. And she would she called me a slut
when she found out I had sex with strangers. In

(01:03:07):
the new one, she was too much of a rock
star to be around. And it's also shared, and she's
not dead. I do like that. The setup of Mama
Mia one is that Meryl Street was literally marooned on
Funk Island for life. That's the caption underneath Mamma Mia
and then underneath that semi cool and semi cold and

(01:03:28):
women's get horny too. All that that was when I
was like, oh, she got pregnant as a very young woman.
Her parents didn't understand, and then she began to manage
a hotel. What is this Gilmore, girls, Oh, I've never
seen it. Women, Thank you so much for funnily saying it.
Now we can end the podcast. Actually, I'm not a fan.

(01:03:48):
Get out of here. Um, did you have anything else
you want to say? We haven't changed your mind. I'm
so surprised. I just and I like Abbot. It's not
that I don't like Abbat. I like most of the cast.
I'm here from Meryl. I'm here. It was weird to

(01:04:08):
me to see Stalin scars Guard as like a romantic
interest because he's played a villain in so many movies
where I'm just like, yeah, you saw Girls of Dragon
Tattoos recently. But you know, I'm here for I think
the cast is largely made up a very talented people.
Love Christine Branski, love Mrs Bird and Paddington and Paddington

(01:04:28):
two of course. But I mean, it's just I'm not
a big musical person, so I just am not. And
really it boils down to the story making no sense.
They reverse engineered the story based on Abbas songs and
it you can tell. The whole thing feels like a
fever dream. It really does. I think it does work

(01:04:49):
better as a staged production. As a movie. Don't think
it works as well, But yeah, I don't know. I
do think it does have some things going for it.
It's largely about female friendship. It's largely about a strong
bond between mother and daughter. It mostly promotes sex positivity. Uh,
it is about like generally, men like embracing their roles

(01:05:13):
as fathers. And even though they don't know, like even
which one of them it is, they're all like, yeah,
i'll be your dad, I'll be one third of your daddy.
I'll take the stomach. So yeah, I think it. It
promotes some positive messages. It's on the right track. It's
on the generally, it's on the right track. And then
unfortunately a blockbuster movie in two thousand and eight being

(01:05:36):
on the right track is better than most movies. True,
does it improve upon any of that and take it
even further and more progressive in the sequel? No, I
would not say that, But see it for yourselves, everybody.
Can you believe The Doubt only made fifty million dollars
at the box office? I mean it did over double
its budgets. I'm gonna say I'm surprised it made that much. Um,

(01:05:57):
it's mostly me that is at least ten million dollar
ours is me and my mom going to seat out
all the time, like fucking psychics, really working through some
ship that that winter. Yeah, I don't know. Well, let's
see if it passes the Bechdel tests, shall we. It's
a really weak drum roll? Can you hear the drum roll? Fernando,

(01:06:18):
there it is. It's not in this movie. It should be.
It's the best, Okay, So yeah, I would say the
song where Sophie and her friends Alie and Lisa are
talking about being the greatest bestist mates because they all
name themselves and they're never seen again, but they don't
talk about men. So I would say that passes the

(01:06:40):
Beckte test. There's a few different combos of passing. It
passes between Donna and Sophie, it passes between Donna and
Rosie and Tanya Um, and I think a couple other
combos here. Now, largely the conversations are about men. It's like, okay,
who's my daddy or who's my daughter's daddy, or who's

(01:07:03):
who's anybody's daddy. The first couple I caught where between
two and four line exchanges. It's not like grabbing long
conversations that aren't about because this is sort of a
you know, male rooted story, and even when there are
good things going on, but it does pass in terms
of it being I mean, it's needs should be said.
It is an extremely Caucasian movie. Um in Greece. Again,

(01:07:29):
I'm so it is. It's very shitty and typical for
for that to be the case. The diversity is to Burnetts.
It's literally yeah, it's like, oh, someone not have flesh
colored hair. The young guy who Christie Bransky's character sleeps
with whets with is the only person of color who

(01:07:50):
has lines. Yeah, I think that that is true. Again,
if I need to get my notes back out, let
me just remind you what his line is now, Baby,
he does have a lot. At least it's a hell
of a line. Yes, but yeah, it's a it's a
super right movie, which sucks. It does pass the Bechtel test.

(01:08:11):
It has that, surprisingly not as much as you think
it would considering it's all female leads. Yeah. Mostly, um,
but now they are all talking about either Sam or
Bill or Harry or I will chalk that up less
to the movie being too male oriented and more to
the movie having literally zero scenes that aren't exactly forwarding
the plot. There's no room to breathe in this entire script. No,

(01:08:35):
because they're like, we need to have five hundred songs.
Like the volume of songs is unnecessary so much. I
feel like I would love to crunch some numbers and see,
like I feel like I had twice the number of songs,
like twice the number of songs you would normally like, Yes,
Phantom of the Opera moment pounds. There's nine hundred songs
in this movie, and they're all strung together by like

(01:08:57):
no more than two lines of dialogue. Yeah of Meryl
streeps like, well, that song was great, and Christine Branski
is like, yeah, but you know it would be even
better the next So they're all humping. I um, I
think I feel like really oppressed by you being anti hump.
I can't handle that word. I'm so sorry hump culture

(01:09:19):
is allowing Jamie, you hacker. I'm personally a humper. I
have to the dry home. So you hate marriage. I
hate the word up your phone dry. Let's write the
movie on our nipple scale, shall we? Uh? We rate
it based on its portrayal and representation of women zero

(01:09:40):
to five nipples. I'm gonna I'm like between a two
and a two and a half on this one. I think,
because even though the movie does have a lot of
things going for it in terms of it's like celebration
of female friendship and mother daughter relationships and sex positivity,
things like that. It is the story deeply rooted and

(01:10:00):
a woman desperately needing a man to make her feel
more complete. It is rooted in every female character that
we spend any significant amount of screen time with ending
up with a man. There is a glimpse of queerness
in this movie, but it's so I would say, glossed

(01:10:21):
over that it may as well not even be there,
Like it's I mean, I wish it was explored much
more as far as like character development goes. Like for
the movie being about Sophie, she's the protagonist, she's got
the main desire and it's her goal that is pushing
the story forward, we don't really get to know that

(01:10:43):
much about her, and like her character development is all
wonky because again the story makes no sense and her
reactions often make no sense because they have to fit
in with whatever abba song they decided was next. So
I feel, like I would say, I mean Mike countered boy,
there be that no characters are super well developed, to

(01:11:04):
the point where the male characters are not developed at all.
We know, like one thing about them, and it's that
they had sex with Meryl Streep twenty years ago and
they can't get over it. Like that's so I think
that that's more that it's not a well written story
than anything else. But yeah, yeah, so yeah, two and
a half nipples from I'll give one to Donna, I'll

(01:11:26):
give one to Christine Baransky, and I'll give one half
nipple to Mrs Bird specifically in Paddington Too. I'm gonna
go I'm gonna be generous here, and I'm gonna give
it a three. Obviously, there's virtually no diversity in this
movie whatsoever, but it is nice to see, uh story
that Fourth Flaws is very empowering towards not just female sexuality,

(01:11:49):
but older women. Uh Like it's okay for older women
to be single, to have sex, just not themes you
see very often in movies. I think it's really art
because who is the prime audience for this movie is
like older women, and so having a movie that uplifts them,
I feel like almost every time that's done, those types

(01:12:11):
of movies tend to do really well when they're like
servicing their audience. So yeah, and then and I agree
with everything you're saying this movie it's so and it's
just so fun, and Meryl is so good and Christine Barrantki,
that's three nipples right there, she has to but there
that we know of, I'm giving all three of my
nipples to Christine Baranski because I feel like she has

(01:12:33):
an extra like a spare tire. You know, how many
nips would you give it? I would say I would
give it a full four if there was a single
non white woman that got more than one line. But
I feel like you can't talk about women and not
include not white women at all, So I would say

(01:12:54):
maybe three only because every woman excepts fucking Amanda Cypherd,
who we've already said is insufferable in this movie, has
also a very established career, like Christine's got a ship
ton of money, fucking Mrs Birds, an accomplished cookbook author.
People recognize her. Meryl Streep owns her own hotel and

(01:13:14):
works a power drill. Yeah, we get to see her
like with a and like yeah with a drill, yeah,
And then yeah, it's just every woman in this like
has a job that she's good at and that's I
don't think, and they're not depict it as like workhorse,
bitter old hags still get drunk and fuck and they

(01:13:35):
have fun. And it seems like Meryl Streep genuinely enjoys
being marooned on Funck Island and she likes it. She
loves it okay a lot think where she is clearly
good at her job, but she also seems to care
very little that her hotel is fucking busted. She smells
like she got money from somewhere that's not the hotel
for sure. That moment where like the foundation her hoteltel

(01:13:57):
cracks in half. She's like, whoof wild? And they just
keep singing. She literally cheers al right because it's the
spring of aphrodite, and also like you know, engineer to
rein in your old fucking house, like your foundations cracked
are so fucked. It's like that is I think the

(01:14:18):
beginning of the end for this. It's like a multimillion
dollar mistakes. And she's like, well, it's Greece, and so
let's say the name of I'm gonna give all three
nipples to um Pierce Brasna because I just feel really
bad for him. He really did give it his all
in this movie, and it was a miss. It was
not it was and it's obviously not good, and I

(01:14:39):
feel really bad about that. He tries something new, something
I do. It is very fun to watch an actor
really swing for the fences and miss see Ashton Kutcher
in jobs like you can tell you this is the
role of a lifetime and it's like you are you

(01:15:00):
damn well, Bola, thank you so much for being here.
Oh yeah, I love talking about mom with She would
have been doing this anyways in the streets. I'll just
text Jamie where could people follow you online? Do you
have anything he'd like to plug? Yeah, you can follow
me at meal or a meal momster and anything. And um,
I have a podcast called Punch of the Jam's great. Yeah.

(01:15:21):
We every week pick up part different song and then
remake it with a friend of the cast. De yeah,
Demmie and I and um, it's good. I'm gonna say
it's good. Yeah, it's fucking good. Damn it. It's a good. Actually,
I my mom gave me when she figured out what
a podcast was last week. She's like, you can sign
me up for five, and she was like, I can't

(01:15:44):
handle more than five, So I gave her. I gave
her a few, but I gave her a punch up
the jam and she is loving it. I love my
new fans to be first, she's only listened to the
episode that I'm on, but she's she's like, favorite episodes.
It was so fine that she was like, they're fun.
I like them. And then she Google imaged you both.
Thank you because my voice sounds so annoying. She's like,

(01:16:05):
what does she look like? She's like, I just wanted
to picture what the room was like. I love her
shout out Joey Well. You can follow the Bechtel Cast
on social media at bectel Cast, and you can sign
up for our Matreon. It's five dollars a month and
you get to bonus episodes like, for instance, Doubt Yes,

(01:16:26):
Oh Doubt August It's it's my birthday month and we're
doing Doubt and Hackers Leo, Seasoned Baby. And you can
go to our website bechtel cast dot com. If you
go to the store there, you can buy all of
our merch We've got t shirts, we've got mugs, we've
got notebookson, feminist icon cartoons of us. Oh, feminist icon

(01:16:51):
Alfred Molina, which reminds me Alfred Molina could have played
any of the Dad's better than any of the Dad
Give Me a Deep Roy and Charlie and the Chocolate
Factory Umpa loompa Style three Alfred Alfred Molina's Oh my god,
I just had a panic attack. Anyways, Uh that's the show.

(01:17:11):
Why were there any cats in this movie? Yeah? What's
with the black cat? I know? But anyway, well, thanks
for listening, everybody. Here we go again, Fernando. We're all
dancing queens and we're other stuff. Okay, bye,