National Treasure

Treasure seekers Caitlin and Jamie search high and low for good representation of women in National Treasure.

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the bel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef In best
start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Caitlin, I can't
do this podcast. What why? It's just gonna lead to

(00:21):
another clue and that's gonna lead to another clue. And
I've lost twenty years of my life to this and
I can't do it anymore. I'm not gonna do the podcast. No,
that's me cause playing against John Voight that was great,
wouldn't be funny. If you're like, I can't do this podcast,
It's just gonna lead to a spinoff podcast, and that's

(00:44):
going to lead to the podcast, which is how that works.
And soon enough will have wasted twenty years on this bullshit.
Welcome to the first quarantined becdel Cast. Yes, we are
recording separately in separate places. Um, we're meeting up over

(01:05):
Google Hangouts. Wow, shout out to Google, my King King Goog.
This is gonna be the two of us today and
we are doing National Treasure. I mean we figured, you know,
it's a tough time. We we got to bust out
some of the some of the some of the best

(01:27):
movies in American cannon to really tide you over during
this bizarre time. So and we also we will be
able to have guests over Google. Everyone is very quickly
adapting to this new and terrifying world we're in, so
that's good. Yes, so we will do some Quarantine episodes
with guests, um, but for today, it's just the two

(01:47):
of us. We really wanted to pick a bit, like
a really escapist media get people's minds off the pandemic.
I thought we chose it because it's a very time
Emily critique of I thought we were like, now more
than ever, the content of National Treasure is very relevant.

(02:11):
I mean, I cannot wait to talk about the socialist
ending sort of of the movie, right, the redistribute to
the people vibes, You're like, Okay, ne Gage, pretty, Bernie Sanders, God,
I mean, I I don't even know where to start
with Justin Bartha, I forgot that. We I like, oh

(02:33):
my god, we have so we're going to just have
fun today. We hope that you enjoy the episode. We
got very positive feedback when we tweeted that we were
going to be doing it so oh my god. Justin
Bartha's Wikipedia picture is literally a head shot from twenty
years ago. How embarrassing for him? What? Okay, well, we're

(02:53):
talking about National Treasure today and it's going to be
an absolute treat it will. Yeah, you're welcome, everybody, and
if you're if you're not familiar with the podcast, is
your maybe first episode? I hope, So I hope people
are getting into it in the car on you know
those like um Instagram story templates that are going around

(03:14):
where it's like, my favorite podcast is this The one
that makes me laugh the most is this one? And
then like some of them are like the one I
just discovered and a bunch of people have tagged us
like under that category is like the one they've just
like a podcast they've just discovered. So I think, yeah,
there's some newcomers still every every day welcome and that

(03:34):
will lead to you and not lead to another podcast,
and that will lead to another podcast and then we'll
be locked in our house for toys. There's there's so
many perfect line reads in this movie. It really boggles
the mind. Oh my gosh, Nicolas Cage, what what what
is he doing? Truly an icon? What is he ever doing?

(03:55):
That's why we love him so anyway, we we are
a feminist movie podcast. We use the Bechdel Test as
a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about
representation of women in cinema. The Bechdel Test, of course,
is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes
called the Bechdel Wallace Test, and it requires that two

(04:19):
female identifying characters who have been named speak to each
other about something other than a man, and by our standard,
it just has to be a two line exchange. So
we'll see if National Treasure can manage to pass the
Bechdel Tests. But if you're just listening at home, take

(04:40):
a wild guess, just take a what do you think that?
What are your instincts tell you? And then for this movie,
really trust those instincts. Um they're Caitlyen. What is your
personal history with National Treasure one? Um. I decided to
take it upon myself to watch it for the first time,

(05:05):
maybe like two years ago. I had never seen it,
like for sure going to cover this pretty much. Um, Yeah,
I don't know. I never saw it. I didn't see
in theaters, never saw it growing up, never saw the
sequel until yeah, just a couple of years ago, and
I was just like, I wonder if this is any good,

(05:25):
I'm gonna watch it. And then I watched it and
I was like, you know what, this is surprisingly better
than I thought it was going to be. But I
didn't see this sequel until like yesterday, and I was like,
fuck it, I'm gonna watch the National Treasure to watch that.
I mean the scene I have not seen National Treasure too,
and the scene you sent me is so like, is

(05:49):
this going to be the first episode where we have
to use audio clips because it's literally yes, you can't
describe it? Really? Let me play the one from the
first movie. You have them both? Yes, here is okay,
here we go, Okay, I wish what whoa? My god?

(06:23):
He was born to deliver that line? And then wait,
do you have the one from National Treasure two? So
I have the one from National Treasure to which is
basically a freakishly identical line read for an equally wildline. Okay,
show how am I going to get him alone? And

(06:48):
then a kidnapping to prison United? Oh god. John Voight
is in this in that scene too where he goes
what there? Why is John Void in this movie? I
just like, I mean, I can't with John Voight. Okay,

(07:10):
I will say just a couple of words when we
get into this discussion about national treasure too, because we
are focusing on the first one. But I like Helen Mirren,
isn't it I did know that? What does she do? Oh?
Just wait, Okay, I'll leave some clues and then maybe
you'll figure out what the clues mean, and then maybe

(07:30):
you'll she is Nicolas Cage's mom, So I'm just giving
it away. Okay, So she's Oh, she plays John Void's
his wife, Yes, well his ex wife, his ex wife.
But I feel like the first movie makes you think
that she's dead, but she's not. They bring her back
to life and it's Helen Mirren. Okay, because they do. Yeah,
and the first one, John voids like you need to

(07:52):
appreciate the time you have, like the time with your mother,
And I'm just like, that's a weird way to describe
a divorce. If the way like what you should have
just been a better husband. I don't know. And she
she addresses that, Helen mare and is like, you were
a really bad husband who didn't pay any attention to anyone,
but you're stupid treasure stuff. So he's this poor family

(08:17):
and their treasure related trauma. It's so sad, it's tragic.
So anyway, Jamie, what is your history and relationship with
National Treasure. I love this movie so much. I saw
it in theaters twice. It's still I Oh, I was.

(08:38):
I was twelve when like I was like I was
the target demo for National Treasure. I loved it. My
cousins loved it, My brother loved it. My favorite bad
movie season of all time, the Holiday movie season of
two thousand four. You've got phandom of the Opera, you've
got National Treasure, you've got the really bad Series of
Unfortunate Events movie. You've got all hitters of like shitty,

(08:59):
enduring movies that profoundly affected me. I loved the first
National Treasure. When I tweeted that we were doing this.
My mom also, My mom loved this movie so much
to the point where she brought it us to it
a second time. And she had the hots for Bartha
because she like she responded to me with, like, oh

(09:24):
Riley Pool, what a dreamboats? Like she loves and she
remembered his character's name. Five years later, So wow, Yeah,
that's impressive. Yeah, I'm I don't. I think that I
had maybe grown out of it by the time the
second one came out or something, because I didn't see
the second one, but I loved the first one so much,

(09:45):
and I like it's one of those weird, like childhood
movies where I found myself like remembering lines from it,
like I for some reason, the twist, maybe one of
the stupid er twists in the movie that has to
do with daylight savings time. Yes, you've referred to that
on the podcast before numerous times. Yes, like for some

(10:06):
reason really stuck with me. And then seeing where it
fell and like where in the second act it fell,
You're like, that's so stupid. What was the point of that?
That's so easily But there's oh those movie is like
all flash like guess what, guess what America the Founding Fathers,
and then at the end they reveal this stolen treasure.

(10:27):
It's all like the optics of the treasure is not good.
I mean that's the case with most of these adventure
like treasure seeking narratives. Same with Indiana Jones. Yeah that's
not yours. Hey, Hey, I think um, Dora in the
Lost City handles it well. So if anyone is out

(10:49):
there looking for a kind of adventure treasure movie, that
does a good job. Dora was a great film and
I loved it a lot. So check that out. You'd
love to hear it. Yeah, no, it's so one of
my childhood faves. But I hadn't seen it in probably

(11:09):
ten years or something, so but I still remember too much.
Turns out it's monumental. Get it monuments he turns out,
I mean, and then I'm looking back now, I'm like,
this was a weird couple of years for Justin Bartha.
This was like maybe his biggest role to date at

(11:30):
that time, and this was maybe his quote unquote star making.
I mean, if we're calling Justin Bartha a star, which
I guess we're not um either way. National Treasure was
his first big role. Of course, his smaller role before
that being in Geli, which today was an absolutely cancelable offense.

(11:50):
But in the early two thousand's there were no rules
and you could just be in Gelie and the next
year you could be in National Treasure, and the year
after that you could be in Failure to Launch. There
were no laws back then it was very different. It
was chaos. So anyways, um, this movie rules the rules.

(12:10):
And speaking of chaos, let's do the recap. Oh, how
do you read? I do not envy right now? How
does one recap? National did my best? From the writers
that brought you snow Dogs and Bad Boys Too comes this. Yes,

(12:32):
the credited screenwriters for this movie are Jim Kove, Cormack, Wibberly,
and Mary and Wibberly. So two men and one woman.
I'm glad that there is a female writer on this movie,
and I think that perhaps Abigail's character is slightly better
written because of her presence. I'm speculating. I mean, I

(12:55):
would hate to see what this movie would be without
this without one woman, because she it seems that she's
the only woman involved at like the higher level. But
I will say that a lot of times that you
see a female writer, it's like it seems like the
quality like she like I I don't mean to lessen
her role in it, like she it seems like she

(13:17):
did a lot of I mean, it's National Treasure, it's
a classic. But a lot of times where it's like
the one female writer on the team is part of
a husband wife writing team as opposed to just being
like hired on. You know, it's just it's the thing
that we've the one female writer thing has popped up
for us a lot and a lot of times it

(13:38):
is because of a husband. I don't know, I don't
feel any particular way about it, but I noticed it. Yeah.
Same anyways, So here we go with the story. We
meet Ben Gates a k a. Benjamin Franklin Gates, um
of a horse. He's named after Benjamin Franklin Galen. My

(13:59):
brother who his name is Ben was so I remember,
like he was just like immediately like if someone in
a movie has your name, you're like, yeah, that is me. Yeah,
I like spit out my drink. When Christopher Plummer is
there as his grandpa, like when he's a kid, and
he's like, okay, Benjamin Franklin Gates, what are you doing
up here? Imagine being Christopher Blumber, one of the best

(14:22):
actors ever and then having to say that like it's
so like it's wild, yes, okay. So we meet him
as a young boy snooping around the attic of his
house and his grandfather, Christopher Plummer, comes in and he's
like his name George Washington Gates. We don't know what
his name is, right, um, Paul Revere Gates, and he

(14:48):
is like, okay, you're finally old enough, I'll tell you
about like our family history. So he tells them about
this ancient treasure that's been passed around century after century.
And these guys called the Night Nice are there, like
some old Christian organization that's vaguely scary, right, They found it.

(15:09):
They were kind of protecting it for a while, and
then they later became the Freemasons, or like a certain
chunk of them broke off and became the Freemasons, and
some of them were the founding fathers of the United States.
And they hid the treasure from the British because they're like,

(15:31):
fuck the British, we have our colonies, now we're cool.
They hid the treasure and they planted all these clues
and maps to the treasure in different places, but all
these clues eventually got lost or forgotten. There's so many clues.

(15:52):
They'll just lead to another clue and then we need another.
No more claes. Also, John Voy's characters name is Patrick
Henry Gates, so they literally just the naming convention. In
his family is to just have a founding father and
then Gates, Yeah, that's all You're embarrassing, really honestly, so

(16:13):
embarrassing for them, like more defined to have to admit
your name is Benjamin Franklin. Gates, there an embarrassing family. Okay,
So all the clues have been lost or forgotten except
for one, and this one clue is the Secret Lies
with Charlotte. I remembered this from five years ago and

(16:34):
this movie came out. I'm like, oh, right, the secret
does lie by Charlotte, but it's the place, not the
and right. So we learned that several generations of Ben's
family have been trying to find these clues so they
can find the treasure. And it all dates back to
like Christopher Plummer's grandfather, who like was hanging out with

(16:57):
this I don't even remember the guy's name, but he
was like the last surviving member of the people who
signed the Declaration of Independence, and he's like the Secret
lies with Charlotte. And then with almost any plot point
in this movie, you can end the sentence with like
or something and it doesn't really change your interpretation of it.
You're like, I don't know, like that they're the clues

(17:18):
are gone or something, and so it's not good. Well
here's something that I just realized in real time here, Okay,
So the clue that they have is the secret lies
with Charlotte, And as we're about to find out, Nicholas
Cage's character finds the Charlotte. So like, what were all
those generations of families doing? Like what clues are they

(17:41):
talking about? Because like he just goes from that one
clue that they have and he finds the Charlotte, But like,
what are all these other Like how do they waste?
Weird to believe that they have been looking for this
treasure for hundreds of years and have really not gotten
past the first clue? Right? So right, what are all
these clues that John Voight is talking about when he's

(18:03):
like and that'll lead you to another clue? Like which clues?
But like Ben Gates is just going off of that
one clue and he finds the Charlotte, Like what are
what are they talking about? Where has he been snooping
around for all these centuries? I don't know, I don't
know really understand it, but I do think it's fine.
I mean, I want to believe that screenwriter Marianne Wibberly

(18:27):
is making commentary here on male mediocrity and saying that
because it has to do with the Knights, Templar and
especially the Freemasons, which still doesn't allow. Well, I have
that in context, corner, but like a group famously hostile
towards women, it's just been these guys fumbling around looking

(18:50):
for what Charlotte could mean for for two hundred plus years.
Do you think they like went into shopping malls and
they're like, the sea lies with Charlotte, Charlotte Ruth. I
thought that maybe we're on the same way. Like that
was like the secret lives with Charlotte rus The secret
lives with Charlotte from Sex in the City. Who could

(19:12):
be the secret could lie with Kristin Davis. We don't know, Yeah,
we don't know. These are things people don't think about
and if they, if they had asked a woman, they
would have been like, have you considered Charlotte Ruth? If
you had asked, you know, it's it's it's it's something
to consider. It is indeed. Okay. So we cut to

(19:34):
Ben as an adult. He has grown up to be
Nicholas Cage and he is searching for Charlotte, which turns
out to be a ship buried in the ice in
the Arctic, and they explain how that would have happened.
But I don't understand something. Yeah, he has his is

(19:56):
this his apprentice? Like? Who is Riley? To him? Like
his little sidekick? He is basically the animal sidekick. Think
of Riley as like a little animated squirrel voice by
Justin Bartha. He basically serves the same function. He's like
a sexless creature who delivers punch lines, right, Because I

(20:19):
always this is a Disney movie and we cannot forget that.
I think that they are using the Disney Renaissance formula.
But they're like, well, we can't get an animated creature,
but Bartha is available, and Bartha is the next best thing,
so they got him in the mix. I think that
Justin Bartha actually does like he still doesn't make me
giggle a couple of times. I think they let him

(20:40):
improvise a little bit. I like when he says this
car smells weird U and I remember when I was
a kid racking up. At the end when they find
the treasure, he's like, it's a tall, bluish greenish man
with a strange goatee, and then he hugs him, and
then he hugs I'm like, Bartha's funny, but he is

(21:02):
just a little like cartoon assistant. Yeah, and speaking of
like people who cannot be critical of others goatees. Justin
Bartha got in this movie is did they give him
that facial hair? It's so weird. I think that they
just are like, no, he's an adult, you know, because
he just looks he has such a baby face. Maybe

(21:25):
I don't know, but like in the first scene when
they're in the Arctic, he has like just kind of
like a five o'clock shadow. But then by the next
scene when they're in the Library of Congress or whatever,
they've shaved it down, but it's it's still just like stubble.
It's not like a full beard. It's so weird. It

(21:45):
sucks um Anyway, So Riley Pool is there with Ben
in the Arctic. So is Ian. That's Sean Bean's character,
and then like one or two of his friends. So
they find the Charlotte, this ship and they go into
it and the next clue they find on a pipe,

(22:08):
and the clue is a riddle that Ben figures out
something must mean that there is a map, an invisible
nap on the back of the Declaration of Independence, and
then we're like, what this rules? This is the best

(22:28):
day of my life. There's a map on the back
of I wonder do you think this? Okay? Well, actually
I kind of know the answer, But this seems like
the part that Nicholas Cage was born to play. But
I don't what what do you know? It was he
the original I mean he was. I know that he
ended up being cast in OH three, but this project
was in development in the late nineties as well, And like,

(22:51):
I wonder who else was considered for this part because
I can't picture literally anyone else on the planet playing
Benjamin Franklin Gates than Nick Cage. And I don't mean
that as a compliment. I just can't think of anyone
else who could who could do it. Well, Okay, so
they're clearly pulling a lot from Indiana Jones, except character wise, like,

(23:13):
in no way does Nicolas Cage and his character Benjamin
Franklin Gates resemble Indiana Jones at all. And I and
I think that that is a compliment, Yes, sure, but
like Nicolas Cage isn't the type of like He's not
an action star, but for some reason, he keeps getting

(23:35):
cast in action movies. It's a beautiful mistake of history that,
like one of the strangest men to be born, has
been pegged as an action hero for some reason. Right,
I cannot make sense of it, But like, I don't
know who else was considered. I truly don't know why

(23:56):
they ended up casting Nicolas Cage in this role. But
I'm also I'm similarly confused by Tom Hanks being cast
as the what's his face character from the Da Vinci
oh um, the whatever that that movie. I read that

(24:18):
whole book and was like, this is amazing, and then
the movie ha hack in spite of al for Malina's involvement,
right A for Molina is in it, He's fully in it.
He's back in the robes. Baby, you gotta get Malina
in the Robes. Well, the Da Vinci Code and Angels
and Demons are basically like National Treasure but in Europe,

(24:41):
so you know, it's the same type of narrative and
weird casting choice I think with Tom Hanks, weird casting
choice I think was Nicolas Cage. But who could you
picture playing Benjamin Franklin Gates. Who could you picture saying
I'm going to steal the declaration of end up and
it's with such conviction. Oh sure, okay, So so the

(25:04):
way this script is written, yes, only Nicholas Cage can
do it. I think if they had written another draft
form for a normal person, it would have gone differently,
not like the other boys. Want okay, really quick. Just
because we are in the car, I wanted to say

(25:24):
that Freddie Molina has been posting the nicest quarantine content
to his fin stuff. I love it so much. Here's
my favor post. So it's the picture is this? It's
Freddy's easy chair with a pile of books next to it.
Caption says stay at home and avoid close contact please.

(25:48):
Actors have been doing that for generation. And then it's
the drama emoji, and then it's the film clapper emoji,
and then it's a heart and I'm like, you know
what we are going to be line, He's amazing, What
a what a funny guy. Why do the imagine parody
when you could just post that. You know Freddie would

(26:11):
never participate in something like that, and that is partially
why um he's one of the only men allowed on
the show m anyways, Um, well, that feels like a
good place to take a break, even though we're in
the middle of the recap. But you know, it's unhinged
here in quarantine Bechtel cast Land. So we're all out

(26:32):
of sorts, so let's take a quick break and then
we'll come right back. Okay, we're back, and we've got
more recap to do. Yeah, okay, So Ben has just
figured out there must be an invisible map on the
back of the Declaration of Independence. And then Sean Bean's character,

(26:55):
You'll never believe this, but he turns out to be
a bad guy because not d nine percent of the
time Sean Bean is playing the bad guy. Well except
for when he's in Gammul Thronge, that's true. That's one
of the few exceptions. But he's normally the bad guy,
and this movie is no exception. And he says, well,

(27:17):
I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence, and everyone's like,
oh my god, what is that a hairpiece? That hairpiece.
It took me twenty minutes to realize it was Sean
Bean because of that weird blonde hairpiece they like super
glued to his scalp. It's really bad. But I just
assumed is that just not his real hair? If it is,

(27:38):
he's in deep trouble. I like that. I have to
believe that that's not his real hair, or it's the
weirdest dye job I've ever. It's a bad cut me
it's like a natural blonde. Yeah, well, sound off in
the comments, but I think I'm just really bad at
telling when someone's wearing a wig. I just assume everyone's
hair is their actual hair. I don't know now that

(28:01):
I'm looking at his natural hair, like it could be
his natural hair. But if so, like for shame on
whoever was styling these actors, because they gave Justin Bartha
that goatee and Sean being that haircut. I mean, Nicholas
Cage's hair is well, but when has that been good?
I mean it was fine and moonstruck I think, but

(28:23):
like maybe since the late eighties he's had some really
weird those hair plugs. Is that's what's happening. I think
he's rocking some plugs in that tresh. I also have
curiosities about because this is produced by Jerry Bruckheimer. It's
a Bruckheimer joint, so that brings vneersers because if you have,

(28:46):
if you're new to the show, we can't stop talking
about it. Jerry Bruckheimer famously, along with Lauren Michaels, makes
his actors get veneers and I was keeping an eye
on it, and I mean Cage for sure has veneers.
I think it's hard to say whether Bruckheimer was involved
or whether he got them of his own volition. Diane Krueger,

(29:08):
I don't know. She may just have gorgeous naturals. Uh
Sean Bean for sure a veneers and Justin Bartha another
person who's kind of in the air for me. But
Bruckheimer does not let narry a crooked tooth on a set.
You will yank him out and throw in some porcelain
ones like. It's just it's very dark. The reality of

(29:29):
a Bruckheimer set. I can't even imagine anyway. Okay, so
you know we've got Nick Cage. He's got his weird hair.
He's got also in the second movie. At least in
the first movie his hair looks passable because he has
some small sideburns, but they shave his sideburns in the

(29:50):
second movie, so he just has this weird like mop
with no it's so weird you, Jamie. I insist you
watch National Treasure too, I really want. I mean, based
on that alone, right, um incredible, it's out of control
and his hair is somehow worse anyway. So Benjamin Franklin

(30:12):
Gates is like, you can't just steal the Declaration of Independence,
and Sean Bean is all like, well, I want treasure.
So they have an altercation about it. There's this big explosion,
there's much of gunpowder. Then they all kind of runaway
and part ways, and Ben and Riley have to warn

(30:33):
a bunch of government agencies that the Declaration of Independence
is going to be stolen, including they tell Abigail Chase.
And she works at like the National Archives. I think, so,
I think, I wonder. I'm curious about the historical accuration.
I'm like, is her office really just behind the Declaration

(30:57):
of Independence? Is that a location? And metting this? I
don't know. I don't know either. It didn't seem real,
but she's there and she works in the archives, and um,
she doesn't believe them. No one believes them. So Ben
is like, well, I guess we have to steal the
Declaration of Independence for ourselves. Love it. He wants to

(31:22):
steal it to protect it from Sean Bean before he
can get to it. So then there's this heist sequence
and they successfully steal the Declaration of Independence, but Abigail
is suspicious of Ben while this is happening. This is
all happening during a gala, and she's kind of tailing him,

(31:44):
and then Sean Bean is also there trying to steal
the document, and then there's this big chase scene with Ben,
the bad guys and Abigail. They fooling her out of
a tor ruck. Oh my, it's the whole thing. She's
damn ms old and then she's damseled kind of for
a second time. She's double kidnapped, right, So Ben saves

(32:07):
her a k A. He kidnaps her from her previous kidnappers,
and he and Riley and Abigail get away with the
real Declaration of Independence, and Abigail is understandably very mad
that they stole it, but they're like, stop yelling. There's
so much to talk about with that sequence, um, But

(32:29):
basically she refuses to let it out of her sight,
so she agrees to go with them to Ben's father's house.
Enter John Void, which for context, during his difficult years
with his daughter Angelina, who by the way, Okay, So
another movie or another franchise that is very similar to

(32:54):
National Treasure is Laura Croft. Tomb writer John voy plays
basically the opposite, the same, but the opposite in the
sense that in Lotta Craft, John Voyd's character is dead
but he loves treasure hunting and he loves the clues.
He loves leaves being clues behind all that. In National Treasure,

(33:15):
he's alive and he is so over the clues he
doesn't want any part of it. He's like, um, actually,
treasure is over. He's so sick of treasure. He makes
all these weird claims to like I I Also another
John Voit line that I've remembered from this movie for

(33:36):
some reason is when he invites everyone in and he
says something sexist at the door, and then he lets
them and then he lets me. It's also it's like
the most frustrating kind of misogynist line because it doesn't
even make sense where You're like where this is coming from.
But he lets them in and then he's like, so
there's pizza in the other room, and you're like, what

(33:58):
is that line? Like what? How? Why? Does John Voight
have enough pizza for four people cooling off? And then
Justin Barthe is like, yum yum. He's the squirrel. He's
the little animal. He's a creature. He's like, oh no, no, no,
no no. The first draft in the first round of

(34:21):
National Treasure, Jorgan Johnsin Barthe's character is a little squirrel.
Never dark, no, no, no, no none. Justin Barthe, I
mean whatever, if you see his performance in Julie, you'll
never feel bad for him again. Oh my god, his

(34:41):
character is so weird. It's so weird. Anyway, So yeah,
they go to John Voyd's house. Yes, they go to
John Boy's house. And then they use lemon juice. It's
literally invisible ink that you would use in like the
fourth grade, and they bring it out by using lemon
juice and hair dryers, and they reveal this secret code

(35:03):
that is on the back of the document and it
turns out to be a cipher. But they need these letters,
the do Good letters or something that we're written by
Benjamin Franklin, the original not Benjamin Franklin. Gates so frustrating,
it's so embarrassing. Oh I love it. I hope that

(35:28):
then like there's National Treasure, Like I think National Treasure
three is allegedly happening. I've heard that, yes, but I
hope that it's like there's like now another kid in
the mix, and it's like James Madison Gates needs to
steal like George Washington's teeth because there's a map inside.

(35:51):
I mean, I think that if that's not the plot,
then someone in Hollywood is fucking up. Okay, So they're like, okay,
we need the the Silence do Good letters. But John
Voight does not have them anymore because he donated them
because he thinks treasure hunting is silly. He's over at
treasure hunting made him a bad father right and now,

(36:13):
and he's making amends by apparently never hanging out with
his son. So now Ben Riley and Abigail have to
go to the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia to decipher the
code using these letters that leads them to the Liberty
Bell and Independence Hall. And it's also at this point

(36:35):
in the story when Ben and Abigail start vibing. It's
like in a dressing room right in an urban outfitters.
Every other other GIF forever twenty one being like so
like what's your story? Like what the fund is that? Um? Also,
and this has already been happening, but um, Harvey Kitel

(36:58):
is in the movie, and he is I think is
the FBI. I don't know. He's leading the investigation to
find Ben and recover the Declaration of Independence. I like,
I like Harvey Kitel, and he's in it just enough
you almost forget he's in it, and then he's in
it again, and then he's gone for an hour and
you're like, this movie is also too long for what

(37:20):
it is? Long? Yes, far too long. Also, Harvey Kitel
is kind of playing the sav exact character that he
played in Elman Louise, where he's like law enforcement, but
he's also like, but I want to be your friend,
Like I'm trying to help you, help help me, help her.
Hotel has good has like big not all cops energy,

(37:40):
and I'm like, I don't know how productive this is, right, Like,
this doesn't seem like I'm not on board with it.
But then when you put Harvey Kitel in the mixture,
like I don't know, it's confusing. Also, I wanted to
just quickly shout out Diane Krueger, a woman that only
existed for about three or four years and then she disappears. Yeah,

(38:02):
I don't know if I've seen her in really anything else.
She actually has, but I'm not giving her enough cry.
But she I remember her from um Inglorious Bastards. She's
in that. Um. She was also in a movie I
never have seen it, never will But Troy comes out
the same year as I did see that. Yeah, I

(38:22):
saw that in theaters. That's the That's what I was
seeing in two thousand four. So she she was Helen
in Troy. Helen of Troy, got it. Yeah, she started
the whole war. It's all it's all women's fault. Um.
So she was like she was a big thing in
like the mid two thousands. But she's still she's still working.

(38:44):
She um. I don't mean to downplay her talent, but
she this was like I think peek her her like
this and and Inglorious Bastard were her too, like big moments.
So far. She from Germany, she is. Yeah, it seems
like I wonder they kind of reverse engineered the character
to be for her because she is German American. She

(39:05):
started as a model and then got cast as Helen
of Troy. And then unlike some model actors ended up
being a pretty like a solid actor and is the
still working actor now. He's good for her. The go
I ask because so she hasn't a German accent that
Ben Gates detects when he first meets her. But that

(39:26):
interaction is so weird because he says, oh your accent
are you Pennsylvania Dutch? And Pennsylvania Dutch for anyone who
doesn't know refers to Amish people, I'm pretty sure. So
he's asking her if she's Amish and she's like, no,

(39:46):
Saxony German or something like why does he think she's
Amish or why does I don't know? It was just like,
am I maybe I'm missing something or maybe I'm misinterpreting that,
but I'm just like, there's no such thing in this movie.
Like that was a very bizarre and I mean that
whole interaction is it is unfortunately the most like one

(40:06):
of the more empowering moments for for Abigail where you're like, oh,
she's in charge of the scene. She's telling Nick Cage
that what he's asking for is unreasonable and stupid, but
he's still God. And then when he oh, my favorite
line in the movie that I'm like, what is this is?
When you know how he like sends her whatever the

(40:28):
campaign button that she didn't or something, he sends her
something that she wanted and it's like, hey, babe, good
talking to you today. L O L love Paul because
he's Paul in his scenario. But when that arrives, it's
one of the only interactions with two women in the

(40:48):
entire movie. Like her, I think her receptionist brings it
to her and then what does she say? She says,
I have it written down. She's like, what is this?
I hope it's not from Stand Stand? When you're like,
who stand? And why are you? Why they are? The
fact that they went through the trouble of writing that
line down and we never find out who Stand is

(41:11):
or why she can't get rid of him? Is he
an X? Is he a creep? Like? What is his right?
Especially because like if we or if we used like
the metric of the Bechdel tests that like we didn't
need to know the character's name, because I don't think
we learned her assistance name, but like they do have
an interaction where the assistant is like, this just came

(41:33):
for you, and then Abigail responds by saying, I hope
it's not from stand but if she, I know, she ruined.
She like that could have passed, like that small interaction,
like by someone else's standards, that maybe could have passed,
but like for no reason, She's like, but I have
to mention a man's name, like writers would rather invent

(41:55):
a fictional male character, like a person that. I mean,
they're all fictional, but like a character that it never
appears on screen or his referenced again, and that's why
it doesn't pass the easy. Becktel tests right, Becktel tests light. Um,
But I just I was really fair. I was, and
then I paid really close attention to there as the movie,
saying if Stan ever comes up, he doesn't and I

(42:18):
don't think so no, no, no, good grief. All right, Well, anyway,
so they're in Philadelphia now, and then finds a pair
of old timey three D glasses that Benjamin Franklin invented,
and he looks through them and sees a clue on

(42:40):
the back of the Declaration of Independence about a wall
here at the wall, but they don't know what that
means yet, and Sean Bean and his goons are right there.
They're right on their tail, they chase them on foot,
and then Sean Bean manages to get his hands on
the Declaration of Independence. And then this is when Harvey
kitel Catch is up with Ben Gates and arrests him,

(43:03):
and you know, because it's the low point of the movie, honey.
Then Sean Bean arranges for Ben to meet him. What
is Sean Bean's ka I think it's ian Ian arranges
for Ben to meet him in New York with the
glasses so that he can get the treasure. And they

(43:27):
all go to a church on Wall Street, and John
Voight is also there now because I guess he's been
kidnapped by the bad guys. But when they go to
the tomb where they think the treasure is going to be,
it's empty. And Ben and his dad are like, oh,
well the lantern. That must be another clue. We have

(43:49):
to go to Boston. And Sean Bean's like, okay, I'm
going to Boston, and but they he he's shipping out
to Boston the job kick Murphy's but he traps Ben
and his friends and leaves him behind. So while Sean

(44:10):
Bean is gone, Ben is like, psych the treasure is here.
And then justin byrthe is likes yes, yes, yes, yes, um.
And then so they hit some like wall buttons and
they reveal a secret door that leads to the treasure room,

(44:32):
but oh no, it's also empty. But then they're like, wait,
this can't be it. There's gotta be treasure here. And
then they find like a thing on the wall and
they put the pipe in it and that unlocks the
door to the real treasure room, which is enormous and
it's full of treasure, and everyone's like, yeay, we did it.

(44:53):
And then this is also the I mean, we know
the whole time that, like like eighty percent of movies,
it's sig very clear to us that ultimately this is
a movie about fathers and sons, right yes. John Voyd's like,
oh my god, I'm so proud of you. You're so cool, Ben,
You're so smart. You did it. Dad's in the audience

(45:15):
start tearing up like I wish he had said that
to me. Um. And then Ben calls Harvey Kitel, who
also turns out to be a freemason. Interesting, right, which
you're like, weird reveal. Does that payoff in national treasure
to it all? Or is that just kind of a
thing that happens sort of because he does. Harvey Kitel

(45:37):
is back for the sequel. Baby, everyone is back back.
Everyone's back, yep, I mean Bartha for sure, it is back.
He's got nothing better to day. He's so do anything.
Sean Bean is not back because he gets put in
jail spoiler alert, but he gets replaced with Ed Harris.
That's a that's a well no, no offense to Bean,
but that's an upgrade. I think that, honestly, National Treasure

(45:59):
is a of all the jokey ways that we insert
Alfred Molina into various cinematic universes. I feel like his
absence from the National Treasure extended universe is actually glaring.
It is noticeable. This seems like a franchise he would
be involved in. I think either as like a professor

(46:20):
who helps reveal a clue, or if he goes Molina villain,
which we love to see. But I know why. I
want to say that Molina was offered Bean's part. But
you know, and I know what Alfred Billina was doing
in two thousand four. Was he being a duck doc? Yeah,

(46:42):
he had a bigger fish to fry that year, honey.
But I'm just saying for National Treasure three, it's not
too late, and he does this does seem to me
like a franchise that he would get offers within he
thrive right, well, because he's in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Yeah right, this is his vibe, like he if he's

(47:06):
not in National Treasure three, something is seriously wrong unless he's,
of course starring in the respute and movie that I
will be writing and directing. Incredible. Okay, So so Ben
calls Harvey Kitel. He turns out to be a freemason,
and Ben is like, don't put me in jail. Also,

(47:27):
this treasure should be donated to museums all over the world.
Give it back to the people. Also, send Sean Bean
to prison instead of me. And then Harvey Kitel is like,
cool beans, you got it, dude. That's he's literally what
he says. He's like, cool freaking beans. Then we cut

(47:49):
to um Ben and Abigail. They are together, they're holding hands,
they're kissing. They've negotiated that Ben and Riley each get
a small percentage of the treasure. I think they split
one percent, but that was enough to allow Ben to
buy an enormous state. Riley has bought a very nice car.

(48:11):
He thinks they should have gotten more of the treasure well.
And also Riley only got credited as an assistant, which
doesn't necessarily seem fair. It seems like he was doing
half the work. It's better than what Abigail gets, which
is no credit at all. Whole I know, well that's true.
They're like, just don't fire her. Yeah, And I'm like,

(48:31):
are you. I have a whole spiel about that, but um,
let's take another quick break and then we'll come right
back to discuss. And we're back where do we start?
I mean, Abigail is the bulk of the discussion to

(48:53):
be had here. Abigail. I mean, it's I feel like,
very typical of this franchise, which is like, this is
like action for it, but it's still an action movie basically.
But in like many action franchises, there is one female
character who is vaguely written to seem vaguely empowering but

(49:13):
ultimately kind of isn't. And then she never has a
woman to talk to. And I feel that that habit
trend mistake is held up in National Treasure. Who is it? Yes? Indeed,
because and I feel like like down to kind of
I almost want to see if you can map out
like how this happens, because I feel like this, I mean,

(49:35):
shout out if you have any similar people that you
can think of in this genre. But the fact that
she is at first presented to us as hypercompetent and
in a place of authority, but that's the only scene
where that is everything. So it's almost like this like
whatever trick that writers will kind of play on you

(49:56):
where they're like, oh, she is really good at her job,
she's really empowered, has a expertise that is needed for
this mission, but you're never gonna see her in a
leadership role again, She's never gonna impact the plot in
a meaningful way, and the next time you see her,
she's going to be damseled. So I feel like this
does happen, I mean, does that happen in the Indiana

(50:17):
Jones franchise as well? Definitely, especially in the like the
first in the third one. The female characters in those
are presented as being like there's kind of a reason
that they end up being the woman in the story
because for the first one, Raids of the Lost Dark,

(50:38):
Marian Ravenwood has the medallion that he needs, so like,
that's why he approaches her, and then that's like they
get partnered up from there. In Last Crusade, Dr Schneider,
she's like a professor of antiquities or some kind of
some expert in the field of antiquities, and she links
up with Indiana Jones because she is also looking for

(51:01):
the Holy Grail. In the second movie, like the one
female character in that movie just gets like dragged along
by accident. It's frustrating. I think it is kind of
like almost a little magic trick that writers will do
to ward off the feminists, to be like, no, we
do know what her job is, which is good but

(51:23):
bare minimum ship, and like, yeah, she is good at
a job which is good, but it's bare minimum ship.
And then she's relegated to the sexy sidekick role who
hangs out with the squirrel right exactly because so she's
the only major female character in the story, which is
very typical of this genre. She is only important to

(51:44):
the story because she gets dragged along, not because like
she made any real active choice to be a part
of the story. She gets like literally dragged into the
scenario which she acknowledges in the movie. Um in that
line where you know John Voyde like, oh, did Marston
drag you guys into this? And she's like yes, literally, um,

(52:07):
but like that's not good enough. Really, that doesn't excuse
that being the reason that she's there. Um. And then
like you said, like she's she we know her job is,
she's good at her job. She has this expertise in
historical documents and US history, I guess, and that is
occasionally shown, but but it's never information that Nicholas Cage

(52:28):
doesn't already know. Yeah, Like they literally recite information in
unison at multiple points, right, Because so that I found
that really frustrating on the rewatch because I'm like, oh,
she does know stuff, but then as you keep watching,
You're like, but it's nothing he doesn't know already, and
so it's another empty gesture. So she does nothing to
ever propel the story forward. And the one time I

(52:52):
was like, oh, she kind of does something that he
doesn't or can't do, it's when she puts the lemon
juice on the back of the Declaration of Independence, because
she's like, he was about to do he would have
been able to do. He just like might have done
it a little more haphazardly than her. But like and
John Voyd is the one to know, is the one
who knows how invisible ink works, and he's like, you

(53:14):
have to apply heat and then they do that sexy, breathing,
flirtatious creepy thing they go, and then you're like, oh,
my god, grows, what does Nicholas Cage just breath smell like?
My imagine? I mean, Diane Krueger, please report from the trenches,
like what does Nicholas Cage just breath smell like? Um? Yeah,

(53:38):
So that ended up being an empty gesture too, because
it's like he it's presented like he lets her do it.
She literally just swabs lemon juice onto it and then
doesn't know to breathe on it. So yeah, and I
mean the only time that she impacts the story, I mean,
they're all easily written out, because it's like you could
write out her being kidnapped by Sean Bean and then
un kidnapped by Sean Bean and not would really change.

(54:01):
She is the one. I mean, I guess it's like
her mistake or her like panicked during the chase that
loses them the declaration, So something's her fault and then right,
but that's like her being that's a passive saying on
her exactly like she trips, which is like that has
nothing to be with her, and then the payoff we

(54:23):
get for that is Nick Cage later says it wasn't
her fault and then she surprised kisses her after Okay, yes,
So I kind of want to go through just sort
of like beat by beat, every story point that she
is involved in in what exactly happens, starting with the
way she's introduced, which is another case of like the

(54:47):
person you thought was gonna be a man is actually
a woman. Because what happens here is Ben and Riley
are waiting outside of doctor Chase's office. They don't know
who Dr Chase is or what gender doctor Chases, but
they assume that doctor Chase is a man. Right. The

(55:07):
assistant comes out and says, doctor Chase will see you now,
and this is in the middle of Riley making a
comment about, you know, being kept down by the man.
The door to the office opens, revealing that Dr Chase
is a woman, and then Riley is like a very
cute man because he's like kept down by the man,

(55:29):
a very cute man, and they're like, okay, squirrel has enough, alright,
So next thing that happens is where at the night
of the Gala, when Ben is trying to steal the
Declaration of Independence, He's like handing her a glass so
that he's able to get her fingerprints later. And then

(55:50):
Riley is like on the little like earpiece on his
like calm link or whatever. Riley is a hacker. He's
got the whole set up. He's in a separate truck
or something. Yes, And so you know, Ben is talking
to Abigail and Riley is like, who's that? Is that?
That hot girl? How does she look? And we're just like,

(56:11):
You're like, can you relax, squirrel, like please. He also
later says that means declaration lady is behind you, and
it's like, why do you think she's mean? Like she
was just doing her job by not letting you look
at the Declaration of Independence. That whole scene of them
like like pain pong nagging her and calling her annoying

(56:32):
and telling her to shut up, Like I have some
of them written down because it's say so agregious, because
it's like we know as human beings that she was
just kidnapped by Sean Bean flung out of a truck.
And then kidnapped by Nicholas Cage and she has to
protect the Declaration of Independence. She's having a horrible day,

(56:54):
and so she's allowed to say anything she wants. But
it's like Nick Cage the second she gets into the
truck immediately begins nagging her. Um. He says, she really
can't shut her mouth, can she? And then later he
once they're parked, he lets her hold the Declaration of Independence.
He is like, you can hold this if you promise
to shut up. Yes, there's so, I have them all

(57:16):
written down. At first, he says, can you please stop shouting?
She's yelling give me that. Referring to the Declaration of Independence,
He says, you're still shouting and it's really starting to annoy.
You would do well to be a bit more civilized
in this instance. He also says when he says to
annoy and not annoy me, that is low key and
iconic Nick Cage moment where it's like and it's starting

(57:39):
to annoy. You're like what, You're like, where did you
learn to be a person? Okay? Yeah, who taught you?
Oh yeah? And then you're like, wait, he's an appetism
who knows right? Right? Right? Um? Then she is continuing
again understandably to like she's freaking out, she's yelling, she
swears in German, and then he says your shower again,

(58:01):
and Riley's like pretty sure she's swearing too, yeah, oh yeah.
And Riley is also loving it. No one stands up
for her. Riley is like te hee he nick Cage's
epic like, I loved him, I love him, I wanted
him to be my best friend forever um. And then
later when Ben is telling her about the silence two

(58:22):
good letters, he keeps saying, you know, quiet, please, now shush.
She really can't keep her mouth shut, can't she Yeah,
I'll let you hold onto this if you promise to
shut up please. She's like reacting appropriately and he just
nonstops says shut up a hundred times. He's so and
and then and then he mentions it as a pro

(58:45):
later when she's like fake working with Sean Bean, and
he's like, she never shuts up. But by then he's like,
means it in a way that he's like, I love
my girlfriend who never shuts the funk up, Like he
says it in a different contexts. It's equally insulting and
also patently untrue, Like she's never like it's she's not

(59:08):
a blabber mouth, she's not given enough lines to be considered.
She's just like upset that she's just been kidnapped twice
in a row by people who are actively trying to
steal the deck, like she's responding appropriately, and then they're
just like, Wow, this shrill woman will not shut the
funk up about being kidnapped and me stealing the Declaration

(59:32):
of Independence? What a bit she She's presented as a
bitchy obstacle at first, she oh, she's fully presented as
a bitchy obstacle, but then she becomes a complacent sidekick
and then the love interest and then the love Yeah,
so like it's it's bad. There's that weird line. We've
already referenced that when she Ben and Riley go to

(59:55):
John Voyd's house. John Voyd answers the door and it's like,
what are you doing here in the middle of the night?
Is she pregnant? I'm like, you don't even know who
this person is, Like what are you talking to? That
conclusion he he like pull vaults, so that weird conclusion
and nick cage instead of saying, what are you talking

(01:00:16):
about Nick Cage is like, well, if she is, do
you want to let the woman carrying your future grandchild
stand outside in the cold? And you're like, what is
this family? This family is so fucked up they make
no sense. And then he has pizza for four in
back like he's just like so weird. And then yeah,
he just lets his dad think that he's had sex

(01:00:38):
with this poor woman who he's been screaming at all
night to shut up. And and then instead of having
her character reply logically, they write in the line do
I look pregnant? And then you're like, come on, you're
gonna make fun of this German supermodel's body, like what what?
What about the rest of us? Like it's uh? And

(01:01:02):
then from that scene on she is love interest sidekick,
and that is how she is portrayed. We don't really
ever learn anymore about her character except that she said
I love you to more than one person, right, which
is a cute little fact. They learned that at the
Urban Outfitters that they fall in love. Maybe one of
them was that stand guy, and maybe it was I'm

(01:01:26):
also like, maybe she and Stan were trying to work
sh it out, and Ben swoops in Benjamin Franklin, Benjamin Franklin, Mr. Steel,
your girl gains swoops in some other stuff that happens
to her. She needs to be saved again. When the
bad guys are chasing after them, the Declaration of Independence

(01:01:48):
gets flung out of her hand onto the street. She
runs after it and Almots gets hit by a truck,
and then Riley has to grab her and get her
out of the way. And then a short time later
when they're in the tomb in the church, they're like
all filing in their kind of being held hostage by
Sean Bean and the other bad guys. And there's this

(01:02:09):
moment where like Abigail walks in front of ben and
he grabs her and says come here, pulls her toward him,
and then surprise kisses her. It's so like that bothers
me on a number of levels, the first obviously being
it's an agregious surprise kiss. The second being that I

(01:02:29):
strongly suspect that that was like a studio note because
it is connected to nothing else going on. It's almost
like the screenwriters were told we need them to kiss
before this part, because other than that it's prompted about.
He just grabs her, and he's like, oh, right, that
we forgot. Jerry Bruckheimer wants us to kiss, and then

(01:02:50):
they kiss, and then it's and then it's you don't
find out, and then that's it. That's also, yeah, that's
that's the kiss of the movie. That's it's the most
wedged in surprise kiss of any kind, surprise or not,
most wedged in kiss I've ever seen in a movie.
It's just like, and I mean, God love Diane Krueger,

(01:03:12):
like the most passionless kiss you'll ever see in your life.
She does not I think that. She's like, I cannot
believe I have to do this. At what cost? Will
I be a star? Like they have no chemistry even
a little bit. Nope, nope, nope, you hate to see it?

(01:03:33):
Um okay. So then after this kiss, they are in
the tomb. The stairs are starting to crumble under them.
As they're like making their way down into the treasure room.
There is a moment where ben Gates like slips and
falls and he's like hanging by something and she's like, here,
give me your hand, so she kind of saves him,

(01:03:54):
but that is immediately undone by a moment later she
falls and then he has to grab her and pull
her up and save her. So she has to be
saved three different times in this movie by either where
he drops her. Oh right, he drops her on that
like platform. He's like, do you trust me? And it's like,
what is this? Aladdin? Right? I felt the same way,

(01:04:17):
But then it's not really like that because he drops
her presumably to her death. She she makes a hard
fall on would that there is no way on earth
Nicholas Cage could be sure would save her. It was
Ricketty down there. So by a miracle of screenwriting, she survives.
And then afterwards he does I mean, Nick Cage does

(01:04:40):
apologize to her several times in the movie and he's like, sorry,
I dropped you. I had to save the Declaration of Independence,
and instead of first of all, incredible line and incredible delivery,
but then instead of her responding logically, she's like horny
by the actually he dropped her to her death, and

(01:05:01):
she's like, it's fine, I would have done exactly the
same thing if if it were me. And then he's
like really, And then that's and you're like, what the
funk is going on? That reminds me of the moment
I think they're in Philly still, and they're deciding to
split up because like Sean Bean and his like cronies

(01:05:22):
are looking for them. They're being British and they're being
Brity because they have to keep the treasure away from
the British because it's three hundred years ago and we
still care about that for some reason anyway. So um,
Ben is like, all right, I'll take the glasses and

(01:05:43):
like the container and I'll go this way, and Abigail
has the actual declaration and Ben says, take care of her. Now.
Riley thinks that Ben is talking to him about Abigail.
Abigail thinks Ben is talking to her about the Declaration
of Independence. So they both say. Both Riley and Abigail

(01:06:03):
say I will, but we don't know which one Ben means, Like,
was he talking to Riley about Abigail? I feel like
I want to probably, I want to give him the
benefit of the doubt and feel like these freaky, freaky
freemasons refer to documents with she her pronouns like they
do with fucking boats and buildings. I feel like he

(01:06:26):
is like the Declaration of Independence identifies she her, which,
first of all, don't tell the Declaration of Independence. How
they identify, right, we don't know. We don't know. Don't
gender a piece of paper that a bunch of men touched,
I know, grubby hands on dirty. So that's a very

(01:06:49):
brilliant critique we both had. Anyway, the point is she, yeah,
she has to be saved many times, constantly damns old
and then foisted into the like okay, now she's with
Nicholas Kate, like they're together and you're just like god.
And at the end they move into this huge stone

(01:07:11):
house or whatever. And also the math does not like okay,
I didn't do the math, but they estimate that the
treasure is worth ten billion dollars and then Riley gets
one half of one percent, which would be millions of dollars,
but he only gets a car. I know, I don't

(01:07:32):
get it. I don't also, but I totally agree with
you that like Riley is not credited properly, but more pressingly,
Abigail is not credited period. Oh, she simply doesn't lose
her current job. I was furious, and like, she's not unhappy,
but she's just like he's like, okay, well, here's my

(01:07:52):
terms and conditions. Harvey Kotel Carvey gets spinning his weird
ring like bro yeah. Ben is like, okay, I want
the credit for the fun to go to the entire
Gates family with the help of Riley Pool, but like
Abigail was there the whole time helping them, doesn't get
credited at all. All he says is like, um, no

(01:08:14):
criminal activity should go on her record. By the way, Like,
I cannot believe he does not credit her for helping
him find the treasure anything. It's It's bad, It's really bad.
I was like, are you fucking kidding me right now?
Bending Franklin Gates. I know bf he's also, oh I

(01:08:35):
wrote this down, brilliant critique coming in ready, he's the
BFG big. He's literally except he's Benjamin Franklin Gates, which
is worse. Um, which is worse. Okay, So the movie

(01:08:57):
is exhausting. I love it. It is better than I
thought it would be. I do enjoy it. I love
I mean it is a romp and a half. I
mean talk about a round half the things. I feel like,
as with most romps, most of the things that do
happen don't necessarily make sense. But it's such a good
romp that you don't even care. It doesn't matter. Just good,

(01:09:20):
it doesn't matter. I think maybe two other women have
very short, short moments on screen. Oh okay, so I had.
There's a woman who is Abigails like assistant or receptionist
or whatever. There's a woman in the market in Philly
where Abigail, which I think is an interesting scene maybe

(01:09:41):
worth talking about, where Abigail is running from Sean Bean's
cronies and she hides behind this counter and this woman says,
if you're not a steak, you don't belong here, and
Abigail's like, I'm trying to hide from my ex husband.
The woman responded, yeah, She's like, honey, you can stay
here as long as you like. And I was like, okay,

(01:10:03):
that's a really nice moment of like, well, woman helping
another woman in a moment of need. But those those
are the only two women I noticed. Was there another one?
There was an FBI woman as well, who says silence,
do good allowed? Right, Harvey Kitel has a female employee

(01:10:23):
that speaks several times and has seen several times, but
we never know what her name is or anything like that.
I take issue with that whole deli scene in general.
Because it's like, I feel like there is like very
much a racial trope going on there as well. The
two women of color we see are like service workers

(01:10:44):
there for a punch line which almost feels like it's
pulled from the Michael Bay playbook, which Hello Bruckheimer, it's
a Bruckheimer play as well, where they're just kind of
there to like provide the white lead with like a
funny moment. And on top of that, the that's kind
of being made is like, oh, she's running from her
abusive ex husband ha ha. Like yeah, so that I

(01:11:08):
mean that that was just like stinky for me through
and through. I guess it didn't occur to me that
they were playing it as a joke, but I can
see that now. So that is not great because all
the woman says is like who I wouldn't want to
be married to him either, And you're like, that's not funny. Yeah,

(01:11:30):
they do. Couldn't end that on like that little comedic
button if you will. Yeah, I mean, if this weren't
a romp, you would help that another woman would be like,
can I help you? Instead of offering you a piece
of raw meat and being like yeake, he seems mean. Um,
but this movie just isn't well written, so and they're
only talking about men, and we never find out what

(01:11:52):
her name is Sawyer. Whoopsies. But before we we dive
further into the Bechtel test discussion, just a few fun things.
So Nicholas Cage is trying to find the password to
open the door in like the archive building or whatever
wherever they are where the Declaration of Independence is where

(01:12:15):
they're like trying to steal it from Justin. Bartha is
listing off several anagram possibilities that like the letters could
form based on like the fingerprints, the letters that like
the fingerprints have touched. Um. So, just a good time
or something. But this is a perfect time, speaking of anagrams,

(01:12:36):
to remind everyone that Caitlyn darante anagrams to such things
as Latin dancer U T I, Lauren D Titanic. And
speaking of Titanic, did you notice Jamie that in the
beginning when they are going down into the Charlotte after
they've like uncovered it in the ice and it's like

(01:12:58):
bluish and they're like walking food, did not remind you
of the beginning of Titanic with like Bill Paxton, Oh
I had it written down. I was okay, wait, what
did I write down? I had a cute little note. Okay,
here's my note. Kind of like the beginning of Titanic,
a big treasure is found, but then the treasure isn't
what it seems. But what if this movie, like what

(01:13:19):
if Titanic went like that, like instead of like starting
to talk to Rose, the whole movie was just about
like it was like national treasure, but it was about
the Titanic, and it's just Bill Paxton being like, I'm
going to steal the Titanic. Oh my god, amazing. There's
a message on Titanic. And if you squeeze a lemon
on the Titanic, there's an app especially because Bill Paxton

(01:13:44):
is another actor like Nicholas Cage, who when he acts
and when he when he's like doing line reads like
they are absurd of the time, like he would have
turned in a similar performance, so that would have been perfect. Also,
just like visually it looked so much like that seen

(01:14:04):
in Titanic when they're like going through with like the
Snoop Dogg vision um little submarine with the camera and
stuff and like going through in and out of the ship,
and I was like, oh my god, this looks exactly
like Titanic when they're going through the Charlotte. Anyway, right,
so back to the anagrams. Um, we've got Lauren D Titanic,
we've got nine tip Dracula, we've got Tan Clarinet, I

(01:14:29):
U D, We've got here's a new one. I just
tweeted this the other day, Rude Italian kunt. But what
that one is? Why? But cunt spelled with the U instead.
It's like a little asterix because I don't have two
use in my name, and you was taken up with rude,

(01:14:49):
so it's like see asterix and T. I'll allow it,
thank you so much, thank you. So that Yeah, those
are some just important anagrams to be aware of in
case my name is ever a clue for something and
you need to like antagram it um. It is a
big national treasure energy to include anagrams, I know, right,

(01:15:09):
I had a really quick context corner on um. Freemasons. Yes,
just because this movie, I mean, this movie also doesn't
seem to know anything about the Freemasons, so I didn't
I didn't like tire myself doing research for this, honestly,
but just I mean famously Freemasons do not allow women

(01:15:30):
in the group. It is like this mysterious group that
I'm pretty sure it's just like uncle's talking to each
other about fucking nothing. Um my uncle's a Freemason, and
I'm like, they're like, I I don't know, I've never
I've asked him, and he's like, I can't tell you.
And then You're like, all right, whatever. Like but I'm
pretty sure it's just uncle's talking about whatever. But it's

(01:15:53):
supposed to be this big secretive thing. It's existed for
as long as um this iteration of America, which is
going really well, I think anyways, Freemasonry, and but I
thought that from the beginning women weren't allowed and that
was not the case. Um, there is a whole uh
like a sub website devoted to women's history and Freemasons.

(01:16:14):
So they were not a lot like they weren't encouraged
to join. But there were some like multi gender branches
of the Freemasons towards the beginning. And then it wasn't
until the late eighteen hundreds that it was a hard
rule that women could not participate. Um, but there was
a whole system for women entering. They could they qualified

(01:16:36):
to be a prentee or female apprentices. So you could
be a female apprentice, a journey woman, a mistress, or
a perfect MASONUS. And I don't know what any of
these mean, but these were the four roles that women
could have until the late eighteen hundreds when they were like,
actually get them out. But there's a there's a whole
there's like even a few famous female Freemasons, but hasn't

(01:17:00):
been one in a hundred thirty years because men be
excluding people. It's true. There was also a question conflict
that came up in twenty eighteen about um, transgender women
and freemasonry in England. It was this whole big thing. Um.
So here is a quote that the United Grant Lodge

(01:17:21):
of England released and I don't love the wording of this,
but this is how they phrased it. Says, quote, a
freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does
not cease to be a freemason. So you see what
they're saying, But the wording of it is I don't
like it, right, Yeah, there's some like misunderstanding it was uh,

(01:17:43):
but that was the conclusion that they came to. So
trans women can be Freemasons if they were Freemasons pre transition,
very calm, like, how many could people? I mean, I
don't know how many people this supplies to, but I
think the French Freemason is like the group that low
key lets women in but in America definitely still know England,

(01:18:07):
they had all the the all the questions around, um,
trans people in Freemasons, and that's all I care to
know about. It's a stupid club. Um, but I wonder
if there any Bechdel Cast listeners who are Freemasons. It's
so what the fuck? And uh, let us know? Yeah indeed? Um,

(01:18:30):
So basically, are we to understand that the Gates family
are all like Ben Gates and his many ancestors are
all Freemasons or they just I think so trying to
find the treasure. Okay, but that also makes you wonder
like why aren't they involving the Freemasons. I don't know, right,
He's just like, well, I've got one sidekick who may

(01:18:52):
or may not be a squirrel, so like that's all
I need. And then this woman that I've kidnapped who
then becomes my girl friend nice, which even like Riley
Pool comments on at the end, He's like, well, you know,
you've got this huge house and you got the girl,
and all I got was this Ferrari or whatever the car.

(01:19:14):
It would have been way cooler if a squirrel was
driving the car. Mistakes were made. It's like when those
when those hamsters drive the Kia's. Oh my god, what
a weird reference shape there. I already think about those
hamsters a lot. Oh, we have fun. The the team

(01:19:43):
on this movie directed by this will surprise no one
but um directed by a man, John turtle Tub. We've
got um several writers and story by credits, but all
of them are men except for m Marian Wibberly, So
we're not surprised that the treatment of women is what

(01:20:07):
it is in this movie. I I would be like, Marian,
come on the podcast. Were you trying to advocate more
for Abigail to be, you know, a stronger, more active character.
Were you shut down? What happened there? I'd like, because well,
I mean, for sure, I mean female writers are shut
down almost exclusively. But it would be interesting to hear

(01:20:30):
like the ins and outs of like what was okay
to pitch, what wasn't? What went over? Well? What did
I mean I'm sure. I'm sure Marian's got stories come
on the pod anytime. Open invite Galen. Yes, does this
movie fast, but I don't know. I'm gonna say a big,
hard no from me as well. There are those couple

(01:20:57):
interactions that she does have with another woman, but those
are characters who are not named. They only have an
exchange that is very minimal and could have been taken
out of the movie. Like, there was no attempt to
meaningfully include women in this story at all, and that
includes Abigail's character because, as we discussed, she does really

(01:21:19):
nothing except for get dragged along and um contribute none
of her expertise or anything like that. Yeehaw. As far
as our nipple scale rating zero to five nipples based
on its representation of women, I mean, I'll give it
a half nipple for you know, again, this happens a

(01:21:40):
lot too, especially in this genre of film, where the
one female character who they do choose to include at
all is not a bad character, Like when you just
isolate her and you know, examine her as an individual.
You know, they often are perfectly competent and smart and

(01:22:01):
you know, we know what their jobs are. They're good
at their jobs. Things like that, but her role in
the story is so minimal in terms of what she's
allowed to contribute narratively. And then also, um, the things
that happened to her, like having to be saved three times,
being surprised, kissed, being foisted into the love interest role,

(01:22:25):
all those things really are extremely frustrating. Kind of every
every mistake in the book, and by a mistake, I
mean it was done very on purpose. But like every
action trope in the book, as it pertains to women,
is made in national treasure. And I have a feeling

(01:22:47):
that because it's like a children family like, it's s
geared toward a wider audience. It's like a PG rated film. Um.
I think that that's probably why we don't get more
were like fridging and violence toward her. But I think
if it were like a PG thirteen or an R
rated movie, we would have seen like violence enacted against

(01:23:11):
her and things like that. But because it's so I
guess you know, it's a Disney movie, so we can't
we can't hit her, but we can just not write her. Um. Yeah,
I'll agree with you. I'll go at half nipple as well.
Who are you giving your nippy too. Um Well, you
presented um an interesting scenario of Justin Barthur being a squirrel.

(01:23:34):
I wonder how many nipples squirrels have. But I'm going
to give my half nipple to the squirrel version of
Riley Pool. I'll do the same wonderful nipple for the squirrel. Yay,
and and and there you have a gang. The first
quarantined episode of the Backsel Cast. I feel good about it.
I had fun, I had a blast what a tree

(01:23:56):
And I think, Jamie, I don't know about you, but
I found some treasure in this episode. I think this
episode is a treasure and we had to uncover it.
See I I feel like, you know, because we're gonna
keep doing it. For me, it's just another clue, and
that's going to lead to another clue. And that's kind
of hed another clue. These clues being episodes, other episodes

(01:24:20):
where constituting. I'm going to start referring to episodes as clues.
So on this clue, we're going to be covering Moonstruck.
What if we should cover the movie clue? I love
the movie clue. Oh, that would be such a fun
Quarantine episode two? What other one were we thinking about doing?

(01:24:43):
We were thinking about doing um Crossroads cross resovie. I mean,
there's some heavy ship and crossroads, but it would still
be a fun one. I've never seen it. A bunch
of people were tweeting that we should do Armageddon right now,
you know, something to think about. Sure, you know what
I'm not going to say now, we'll see you, We'll
see what happens um. Anyway, thanks for listening. You can

(01:25:07):
follow us on social media at all the places, especially
Twitter and Instagram at Becktel cast um. Now is a
great time if you haven't already, and if you're able
to financially join our patreon a k a. Matreon because
you've you'll get access to more content, more episodes of

(01:25:29):
the Bechtel Cast. If you're breezing through these main feed episodes,
you know, burning right through them and you need some more.
We've got a bunch of good stuff on the Matreon,
and there's been a couple of people asking us one
is the best way to financially support us during this stuff.
We're fine, but the patreon is the way. The Padreon,
Madrean is the way to do it. Indeed, yes, and

(01:25:52):
with that, well this clue, like you said, Jamie, it's
not over the search for the Bechtel Treasure. Treasure, it's
speculated the cartoonist Alison Bechdel has a hidden treasure and
her books, and you have to get all of her

(01:26:12):
books and read them. Or what if we've been laying
out clues in every episode. What if every time I say,
like cat facts with Caitlin, or every time you say,
here's what role Alfred Molina should have played? What a
de cipher? That was a cipher this whole time, You'll

(01:26:33):
have to figure it out, listeners. Yeah, just just keep
finding those clues that we've been sprinkling into the episodes
by