Plan B (2021) with Danielle Bezalel

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Attention Bechdel Cast listeners a WUGA. We are doing a
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For the in person show in LA it is at
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(00:24):
Cast celebration.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, we are super, super excited. We've wanted to do
this show for a long time. We will be having
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closer to the show, but some of your favorite guests
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also happening on Oscars Night, so it'll be at seven
thirty Pacific, which will be basically right after the Oscars ends.
So if you're in the area or if you want

(00:48):
to get a live stream ticket, it's a great chance
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(01:11):
of the LA fires, specifically families in Alta Dina.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Indeed, so grab tickets either for the in person LA
Show on March second or the live stream show which
if you cannot see the live stream as it's happening,
if you get a live stream ticket, you'll still have
access for one week after and you'll be able to

(01:34):
watch it at your leisure for that week. And tickets
for both the in person show and the live stream
are on our link tree link tree slash Bechtel Cast.
We will see you there, see you there, Enjoy the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
On the Bechda Cast. The questions ask if movies have
women and them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy zeffim vast
start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Hey Jamie, Hey Caitln, do you wanna drive in my
mom's minivan three and a half hours away so that
I can get access to important reproductive healthcare.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Sounds like a fun ramp to me. Let's go. Let's go.
Wow perfect intro, no notes. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast.
My name is Jamie Loftis.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
My name is Caylin Durante. This is our podcast where
we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. Today is
a special episode for me at least. Yes, So we're
talking about the movie Plan B, the one from twenty
twenty one, because as I was searching Plan B, there

(02:48):
are so many movies with that title. Yes, this is
the twenty twenty one Plan B. I think a Hulu
original film.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
It is, which is very funny because I bundle my
Hulu with my Disney Plus and so you can see
a pierced dick on Disney Plus. Pretty cool, pretty awesome.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
I have a lot of thoughts about that scene, but
we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I do too, So this is.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
The movie about teens trying to get access to the
morning after pill. Now the reason we're doing this movie,
and we'll get into it in a moment. But I
if you're listening to this, I guess just when it
comes out or afterward. I have just gotten a hysterectomy,
so I'll provide some more information about that. But I

(03:37):
wanted to cover a movie about trying to get access
to reproductive healthcare to line up with me getting a hysterectomy.
So this is the Plan B episode and here to
talk with us about the movie. Is a sex educator,
pleasure expert, and rom com critic. She's also the host

(03:59):
of the podcast sex Ed with DP.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Actually the perfect guests for this.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I mean, hello, Yeah. This podcast has a series entitled
rom Com Bomb where they go under the covers with
a beloved rom com strip away it's hidden toxic messages
and then rewrite the script on love and sex. Our
guest is Danielle Bezilel.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Welcome, Hello, Thank you so much for having me. I
am absolutely thrilled to be here to talk about my
favorite things, which are sex education, emergency, contraception, and feminism.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yay, let's go, let's go.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
What is your relationship with this movie?

Speaker 3 (04:40):
I really love this film. I saw it for the
first time last year. It had come up on my
kind of homepage on Hulu as the algorithm knows what
we like a few times, and I was just very
excited to get into it, to get cracking. And I
think overall it's fantastic. Really enjoy many parts of it.

(05:02):
I think the script is very funny. I really enjoy
the realisticness of high schoolers trying to figure it all
out and just trying to get access to their reproductive
rights that they deserve. And we also at SEXI with
dB had on the actress kouhou Verma, who plays Sonny

(05:22):
on an episode to talk about sex scenes and the
way in which that minorities interact with their parents and
around sexual identity and culture. And it's a very rich episode.
So yeah, I really enjoy this film and can't wait.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
To talk about it today.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Awesome, that's so cool that you had her on your show.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, she's very funny, very talented, and incredible singer. I
don't know if you remember. There's a really a bos
scene where she's singing in the car and I'm like, okay,
all the phone. I need to get more information on that,
and then learn that she is a trained singer and
I've seen some of her clips and she's incredibly talented.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
No big deal.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I had not seen this movie before, but I am
a longtime fan of the director of this movie, Natalie Morales,
who started as an actor. I believe this is her
first directorial project. I could be wrong about that, but yeah,
I think she's super talented.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I have my thoughts on the movie, which we will
talk about, but yeah, I enjoyed the movie a lot.
I know that we covered Gosh a year or two
ago Unpregnant, which came out around the same time and
has a similar theme, but I think this one took
the cake for me. We'll talk about it, but in general,

(06:39):
you know, and I know, Danielle, like you are the
expert on this, Like, even though there are parts of
it that were imperfect for me, I just am glad
that this genre of movie exists and that it you know,
the creative control is being put into the hands of
people with uteruses, and creatives with uteruses. Who are you know,
just starting the conversation. So yeah, I laughed, I cried.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I like both.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
There were some moments where I was like, the comedy's
getting a little too broad for me, and I would
just start to check out, and then something really sweet
and beautiful would happen, and then I would be like
locked back in. What was her history with this Caitlin?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
I had not seen it before, and in fact I
picked it before. I was like, this is the movie
that I'm going to have like line up with my
hysterectomy experience before even watching it, because I knew that
it was tonally light, which is something that I wanted,
and that it was about people with uteruses trying to

(07:39):
exercise autonomy over their bodies and their reproductive health, and
since that has been my journey with trying to get
a hysterectomy, I was like, Okay, thematically similar enough, because
the thing about movies about hysterectomies is that they don't
exist except for Okay. I was like googling this. There

(07:59):
are a couple, but they're either like TV movies that
you've never heard of and can't access, or I think
there might be a documentary about it. Anyway, I did
come across a nineteen ninety six TV movie entitled Maternal Instincts,
in which, and I quote, oh no, a pregnant doctor's

(08:21):
life is made hell by the deranged patient to whom
she gave a hysterectomy without the patient's consent.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
The histeror is doing a lot of heavy lifting in
that description. Yeah, she's Louise.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
So I was like, maybe not the vibe I'm going for,
So yeah, I just decided to go with Plan B.
It was a movie I wanted to watch. Anyway, We've
gotten a number of requests for it, so that's why
we're covering it. But yeah, I just wanted to talk
a little bit more about this experience of me trying
to get a history direct to me. One, I want

(09:01):
to normalize a discussion like this, and two it's been
a very frustrating several decades. Also, if you don't know
what a hysterectomy is, because I've discovered recently after telling
a number of people I'm getting a hysterectomy soon, people
are like, what's that.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
I honestly, before you started talking about it with me,
I misunderstood what the procedure actually was because it's not
I mean, so much sex ed is so prescriptive aggressively
so but yeah, the idea of choice barely ever comes.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Up for sure, So uh, what it is is that
I am having my uterus removed. A hystectomy also might
involve removal of the ovaries. I'm hoping that that doesn't
happen because that will mean that I would go into
immediate menopause. It will mean a significant shift to like

(09:54):
my hormones and stuff like that, so I'm hoping they're
able to leave my ovaries. It'll depend on how riddled
with endometriosis all of those organs are. So this is
why I'm having the hysterectomy. I have dealt with horrible,
horrible period pain ever since I started having periods when
I was twelve years old. It is probably due to endometriosis,

(10:17):
although I don't have an official diagnosis of that because.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Those are so hard to get.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, because you know, medical science doesn't give a shit
about people with uteruses. And to be clear, we're using
that phrase of people with uteruses on this episode because
people will commonly talk about things like access to birth control,
access to abortion, access to a hysterectomy as something that
women get. But not all women were born with uteruses.

(10:46):
Not all people who have a uterus and who might
be trying to get birth control or a hysterectomy or
access to abortion or whatever are women. Obviously, we're not
trying to reduce anyone to their body parts more or that.
We just want to acknowledge the pretty cisnormative way that people,
including a lot of medical professionals, talk about who has

(11:08):
a uterus, who needs access to reproductive health care all
of that. But anyway, So, I have wanted to get
a hysterectomy basically ever since I started having periods, and
I've been asking doctors about it since probably my twenties.
One because I want to eliminate this pain, and two

(11:29):
because I famously do not want to have children and
therefore do not need a uterus for any reason. So
I was asking doctors about this and being like, is
this an option for me? I have this horrible pain?
And I got nothing but pushback from every doctor I
talked to. They said it wasn't medically necessary for me
to have a hysterectomy, despite the excruciating pain that I

(11:53):
would describe to them.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
It's like, what is medically necessary?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Then?

Speaker 3 (11:56):
If I'm telling you that this is an absolute trash
experience makes me so mad. I'm so sorry that you
went through.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
That and for so long too. Where I mean, I
know we've talked about this, and you've talked about this
on the show before, but how there is like I think,
a false narrative about like we've come so far and
it's like, well, no, You've been having the same conversation
with doctors for literally decades and HM, again, it's just
like there's a lack of choice, definitely.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
So I would be like, well, I think I probably
have endometriosis because my mom, both of her sisters, their
mother all had to have hysterectomies because of endometriosis. So
I'm like, it's probably the thing with me too. But
I would talk to doctors about this and they'd be like, well,
who knows if you have that, because it's really hard

(12:45):
to diagnose, and then they would just leave it at
that and like not try to diagnose it or anything
like that. So I would get pushed back about that,
or they would say like, well, you'll change your mind
about not wanting to have children, you know, all that classics.
That is until I went to a doctor recently who
said that a hysterectomy is on the table for me. Again,

(13:07):
I still don't have an official diagnosis of endometriosis. They
are just believing me about the pain I experience, and
they're believing me about not wanting to have kids. I
think it helps that I have already gotten my tubes tied,
which is a procedure I had done three years ago.
I think that is sufficient proof for them that I
don't want to have children, so they're like, yes, let's

(13:30):
do the hysterectomy. So at the time of this recording,
it has not happened yet by the time you're listening
to this, it will have happened on February twelfth. So
that's why, again, I wanted to pick a movie to
line up with the just theme of a story about
a person with a uterus who is trying to and

(13:51):
it is eventually able to exercise autonomy over their reproductive health.
And again, I wanted it to be tonally light and
fun because I wanted to like kind of reflect how
I feel about having this surgery. I know that a
lot of people who get a hysterectomy do not necessarily
feel the like joy and validation that I feel about it,

(14:13):
and I fully recognize that, but for me, this is
like a very validating thing. This is exactly what I've
like always wanted. So I wanted to cover a movie
that's like light and cathartic.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
I also sorry, I just want to say, like, go
you for like saying this in the public, Like this
can be, you know, similar to periods. I feel like
as a sex educator, I'm constantly talking to people about
how they feel so much shame around their periods and
around anything having to do with their reproductive health and
their sexual health. And I just think good on you

(14:46):
for like being open and honest and transparent about what
you're going through, because I just feel like people are
going through similar things and it might be an isolating
experience for people, and so I feel like the way
that we combat stigma and shame is through educ and information.
So that's what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yay, Hey yeah, Lit Kay kay, Lit, Wow, I'm a hero, brave.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, But I mean it's even outside of reproductive rights
you've been talking about just difficulty accessing basic procedures you need,
going back to the sludge era.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
So for any listeners who don't know about sludge, if
you're new here, If you're new here, sludge refers to wow,
this is like six years ago now, because this happened
in twenty nineteen where I had a gall bladder attack
and was discovered to have quote unquote sludge in my

(15:39):
gall bladder. Medical medical sludge yes, actually weirdly a scientific
medical term. I would come to find out bone chilling,
and I had to have my gall bladder removed. So
this is not my third pretty major surgery between gallbladder removal,
tube tying, and now hysterectomy. So I'm a season and veteran.

(16:01):
But the gallbladder thing was, I had like very bad
insurance at the time. I had to drum through so
many hoops just to get access to a very simple
procedure that's like quite common. It took months and months
and months of appointments and referrals and dead ends and
all kinds of nonsense. Where what should have happened is

(16:22):
when I went to the er with like, you know,
cruciating gallbladder pain. You know, in a country with socialized medicine,
they would have been like, oh, yeah, this is what's wrong.
Here's your surgery the next day.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
It's also worth mentioning even places with socialized medicine like
access can still be an issue even if financial isn't
you know, if if the problem isn't finance, sometimes it's
just doctors being gender prescriptive and making assumptions about your
body too.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
It's just definitely yeah, yeah, So I've been having difficulty
accessing health care for years now, but now my uterus
sludge aka presumed endometriosis.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Unfortunately, I feel like so many Daniel, I'm curious what
your experiences of this, Like, I only learned what endometriosis
was when I was having tremendous pain myself and was
trying to figure out and think, I mean, I didn't
have endometriosis. I had a horrific uti but the urgent
care I went to was not listening to me, and
so I was just in the internet trench as being like,

(17:27):
what could this be? But I'd never heard endometriosis discussed
in any space as I'd been in. I think because
of the shame stigma, and I got very poor sex ed.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me based
on how terrible our sex that is, how unlikely we
are to listen to women and people with uterus in
particular when they're talking about pain. The average time it takes,
and this is a huge range to receive an accurate
diagnosis of endometriosis between four and eleven years. I've heard
you know within that it's kind of like an eight

(17:59):
year diagnosis journey, And yeah, that is a multi layered
issue as to why that's happening. I feel like, you
know it's just one of the many conditions reproductive health
conditions that aren't talked about enough. Doctors aren't trained on
how to diagnose it, and doctors are also less likely

(18:20):
to listen and pay attention to women and people with
uterus is pain and so like that. You know, then
you're talking about like all the other kind of intersectional
feminist lenses that we're going to go through. I'm sure
in this episode of like you know, bipop folks are
less likely to get diagnoses of reproductive chronic conditions, and
so yeah, I just think it's it's a multi layered

(18:41):
issue here.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
For any listeners who don't know what endometriosis is, and Danielle,
feel free to fill inity blanks or anything that I
kind of have gotten wrong. But it's basically uterine tissue
like uterine lining that would normally grow inside the uterus
and then be shed during your period. Endometriosis is when

(19:04):
that grows outside of your uterus and like attaches itself
to like the exterior of the uterus or your ovaries
or other Like the doctor who is going through all
of the possible things that might happen during my surgery,
she's like, yeah, we find endometriosis sometimes on your appendix,
so we might give you an appendectomy. We find endometriosis

(19:27):
sometimes on your lower intestines. It might be on your
fallopian tubes. Like it can kind of grow anywhere in
that general region and it causes intense pain, or it
can especially during menstruation. At least that's been the case
for me.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yes, totally. And the exact cause of endometriosis unknown, right, Like,
not enough money is going into research and scientific studies
for it. I hope that is beginning to change. But yeah,
the symptoms for folks can range and can be incredibly
painful and can even cause folks to not even be

(20:05):
able to like get up there in so much pain,
or they'll have to miss school or work or you know,
it's just it's just a really tough condition to have.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, I would have to miss school sometimes, especially when
I was a teen. So for many years I was
on some form of birth control that would curb the pain.
But I was like, I don't want to do that forever,
so heince Hys directed me. But yeah, when I was
a teenager, I would miss school routinely. If I did
go to school when I was on my period, I

(20:34):
would often like throw up because I was so sick
a feeling, and then I would have to be sent
home like it was, It's been a horrible, painful journey.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
What's really we just to talk about the movie at
some point, I'm like, this is so interesting, though, I like,
I've been thinking about this a lot, especially with your
procedure coming up, Caitlin, of how much of this can
be sort of like generationally passed on as deal with it,
because when I was having really painful periods that luckily

(21:05):
for me, is sort of ebbed as I got older,
But I had really painful periods when I was young,
and I remember being told by like relatives with uteruses
and school nurses with uteruses like that's just sort of
what it is, and like do your homework, like and
then on the other end, I think about young boys,
which is the point about this movie I want to

(21:26):
talk about, you know, and I mean boys as people
with penises in this case. But how if you don't
have a uterus and you're listening to this episode, keep
listening because it's so important, Like because we're not educated
on each other's bodies. I feel like it just you know,
engenders this real It makes it really easy to not

(21:47):
empathize with people experiencing that pain because it's not treated
as valid societally, and it means that often your sexual partners,
Like I've had pain that I've described to sexual partners
who I don't think we're like not empathetic people, but
they just did not know what I was talking about,
and it makes it really, I don't know, like it.
It is difficult to have that conversation when you're you

(22:09):
have to educate someone while in tremendous pain like that
shouldn't be the two hander.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Well, shall we take a break and then we'll come
back and talk about the movie.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
And we're back. Thank you for indulging me as I
talked about my endometriosis and uterus and periods and pain
and all of that stuff. But again, we're trying to
normalize it.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes, anytime, please.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
It's important. It's you gotta what does this show for it?
If not this exact purpose? True?

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Okay, So the recap for Plan B twenty twenty one.
We meet two girls, Sonny played by Kuhuverma and Loope
played by Victoria Morales. They are best friends. Both live
with rather overbearing parents, Sonny with her mom, who expects

(23:14):
her to get perfect grades and to be very modest
and well behaved, and Loupe with her pastor father who
doesn't like her alt slash nos ring slash black lipstick aesthetic.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
I wrote down this Christian hates hot topic. That's his
whole vibe, that is his vies. There's one store this
man hates. It is hot topic.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
The girls head to school. Sonny tells Lupe that she
feels very behind sexually. Other teens at school are having
sex and she still hasn't had her first kiss. But
she does have a crush on a boy named Hunter
played by Michael Provost. But oh no, a mean popular

(24:05):
girl named Megan is flirting with Hunter, so Sonny is like,
oh no, how am I supposed to compete with that? Meanwhile,
Loupe has a boyfriend, or what we think is a
boy friend. Not to spoil anything, but there seems to
be a guy that she's been texting with named Logan,

(24:25):
although they haven't met yet I r L. We also
meet another classmate of theirs named Kyle played by Mason Cook,
who he's presented as being Likedweebye. He's a magician. He's
always talking about his church group.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
He's a Christian magician.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, yes, so Chris Magic. I feel like that be
a cool altering girl.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I wonder if Chris Angel ever called himself that, Chris.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Ma He's Yeah, Kyle's what we call a bit of
a mind free Oh.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Wow, so true, so true. Okay, So we see all
the teens in sex ed class where their teacher Rachel
Dratch shows them a video that's.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Perfect casting, great casting.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yes, the video is like promoting abstinence until marriage and
it's particularly slut shamy toward women. And Sonny and Hunter
start pointing out the sexist double standards of the video
and they're kind of vibing. And then after class, loope
wing woman's for Sonny and says, hey, Hunter, Sonny is

(25:36):
throwing a party tonight, which she isn't except now she is,
especially since Sonny's mom is out of town this weekend.
So we cut to the party. Eventually Hunter shows up
and he and Sonny are vibing some more. Then Sonny
gives herself a makeover after hearing that mean girl Megan

(25:56):
saying some very rude things about Sonny.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I really enjoyed the soundtrack to this movie. I feel
like when I was hearing it was just very early
twenty tens coded to me, where like when fuck the
Painoay is playing during a makeover sequence, You're just like, Yeah, this,
whoever this director was was really raging in like twenty
eleven for sure.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
So she's feeling more confident now, although she sees Hunter
leave with Megan and she's like wow, wah. Then she
starts talking to Kyle the Magician, the Chris Magich, Chris
you will. They have a heart to heart and then
they have sex. And we'll go back to this scene
because there's there's some notes to discuss here around consent,

(26:43):
I would say, but we'll return to that they have sex. Kyle,
feeling guilty that he just had premarital sex, runs off,
and Sonny kind of reunites with Loupe. They pass out
on the couch and we cut to the next day.
Sonny tells Lupe that she had sex. Lupe assumes that
it was with Hunter, and for whatever reason, Sonny doesn't

(27:07):
correct her. Then she goes to p and the condom
she and Kyle used falls out of her vagina and
now she's worried she might be pregnant, since it was
like sitting there all night.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
I had this thought where it's like she she does
think she might be pregnant, but she also thinks she
might be gregnant, which means that maybe the better name
for this movie would have been playing g there. So true,
but that's you know, mistakes are made in every production.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
And it's really weird that that kid's name is Kyle
because his name should have been Greg.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
He's very greg coated.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
What am I missing something about this Greg? What's going on?

Speaker 1 (27:47):
No, there's just a Sometimes people think that pregnancy is
called a pregnancy, but it's actually called a Gregnancy.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Actually, Danielle, I'm curious, like this actually is relevant to
your Alina study.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
I'm following, I'm following.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Have you seen that? Okay, I'm not joking out. Have
you seen that viral video from it got at least
ten years ago that is composed of like Yahoo answers questions.
I mean, I feel like we should just send you
the video. But it's a list of questions about pregnancy
from mostly since men, and it is right.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
I think I know there is a version, am I?
So it's two different I understand.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So is just a bunch of people misspelling the word
pregnant and then one of them is gregnant. So that
has just caught on, understood and.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Also just speaks to I think, like genuinely does speak
to the lack of sex education in the US, because
some of the questions are like when you have sex
with gregnant, does Penis touched the baby hit his head
like that kind of stuff where you're just like, oh,
open the schools. It's very open the schools.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Energy, Yeah, force you to sit down and learn some facts. Yes,
this is this is a big yeggs roney. No, I'm
gonna have to watch that. I have seen. On the
other hand, the song video where he's like, am I
pregnant or whatever it was?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah, he's based on the same thing for sure.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
For sure. Great, Okay, so she thinks she's pregnant, but
she also thinks she's pregnant, as you pointed out, Jamie
and Loupe is like, well, don't sweat it. We'll just
go to a pharmacy and get you a plan B pill.
They go to the pharmacy, but the pharmacist played by
Jay Chandras tekar Aka mister super Troopers refusal.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Oh okay, I was struggling. Okay, yep.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, he directed at least one, maybe multiple super Troopers movies,
and he also is one of the stars of those movies. Anyway,
he's a pharmacist and he refuses to sell them the
Plan B pill because they are in South Dakota, and
he invokes the conscience clause say that selling a minor

(30:02):
a Plan B pill goes against his moral beliefs.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
A policy that I was not aware of. Really, Oh
my gosh, yeah, I don't know how I had never heard,
but like I fell down a rabbit hole after that,
because I mean, not surprising, but absurd.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Very absurd. And so because they're both I think seventeen,
or they're minors, so he has the quote unquote right
to invoke this clause.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
He can decide what happens to their bodies. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
So that means and get ready for this poetry from
yours truly, it means that their Plan A to get
Plan B if the pharmacy doesn't work out. So their
Plan B is to get Plan B at Plan P
aka planned parenthood.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
And somehow all of this ends up being planed G
just plan Greg Greg.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Oh, Greg, I'm like, I'm with you, okay.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
So the point is they're trying to get to a
planned parenthood. The nearest one is like three hours away
in Rapid City, South Dakota. So they take Sonny's mom's
minivan and start driving to Rapid City. There is a
mishap with like road construction and GPS reception, and they

(31:17):
get lost for a little while. They stop at a
gas station and get very silly directions from a woman
named Doris Edie Patterson.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
If you're a righteous Gemstones fan, She's amazing.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
That's who she is.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
I did not love that character, but I love that.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
After yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then they are these like
two creepy guys who harass Sonny and Loupe. Doris comes
to their rescue. They smoke weed with her. By this time,
it's pretty late and Doris points out that Planned Parenthood
is probably closed for the night, but Plan B is
most effective when taken in the first twenty four hours

(31:54):
of the sexual encounter. Then it drops down to I
think sixty one percent efficacy within forty eight hours according
to the movie. So Doris suggests that they pay a
visit to her drug dealer, nephew Andy at the local playground.
They go and meet up with Andy.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Moses Storm, Yeah, played by a friend of mine. Did
not know he was in this movie. And this scene
is another one that we'll talk about. Andy doesn't seem
to have Plan B, but he's about to sell them
fake IDs so that they can acquire it at a pharmacy.
But he's selling the fake id's for three hundred dollars,

(32:38):
which they don't have. And he's like, well, you can
perform oral sex on me in exchange for the fake ID,
and Sonny is like, okay, I guess. And then we
see a full frontal penis nudity.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
On Disney plus Disney Dyes, Disney plus Mickey's Network.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
For god's sakes, we come to this place to watch
Mowana and look at what I'm looking at. This scene
bugged me. We'll come back to it.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
We'll come back to it.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
This is where the comedy was getting so broad that
I felt like the point of the movie was being.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
A little bit lost for sure. Yeah, I really struggled
with this scene, and we'll go into why. But the
point is she can't go through with this transaction, so
she like you know gets away, but in so doing,
she accidentally rips out the penis ring that's at the
tip of his penis because it gets caught in her hair.
So now they have to run off. It's all this

(33:36):
high jinks, but not before Loope steals the pill that
may or may not be Plan B, but it also
might be PCP. They get into the car with Loop
A driving and they take a detour to a show
that her boy friend Logan is playing in a nearby

(33:57):
town at a bowling alley. So they get there and
guess who else is at the bowling alley. It's Sonny's
crush Hunter.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Wow, the male feminist himself has entered the entered the
bowling alley mm and he's like.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
No, no, no, I didn't hook up with Megan at
your party. I just gave her a ride home because
she was really drunk. And so Hunter and Sonny dance
and have a nice time. Meanwhile, Lupe approaches Logan, who
we think is like the lead singer dude, but just kidding,
it's the drummer who's a girl twist. And they finally

(34:40):
meet and they hang out and they're vibing, and.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
That's played by Mahala Harald, who I recognized from Body's
Body's Bodies.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Oh bye, Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
I thought maybe she was also in an episode of
Black Mirror that I had seen. I did not confirm that, but.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Oh, I can confirm that she was great. She's popping up.
She's great. She's also in Industry, which I think is
a pretty good show.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
I haven't seen that yet.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
I enjoy it. She's in that as well. Yeah, she's
popping up right now, but nice.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, good for her.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
This is like, what a lovely moment, the debut of Logan.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yes, I enjoyed it very much, and I enjoy their connection.
They hang out, Lupe and Logan do. But Lupe has
not told Sonny that she's queer, nor has Lupe come
out to her very religious father, and so part of
what she and Logan talk about is coming out, whether

(35:37):
or not they have been or will be rejected by
their family, you know, finding found family, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
I love that scene. I'm sure we'll come back to it,
but I just really loved it so sweet.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Meanwhile, Sonny and Hunter are having waffles kind of like
how Donkey wants waffles and Shrek d.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Shrek coded scene. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, And she tells Hunter the whole story about how
she had sex with someone and now she might be
pregnant or pregnant, and that she's trying to get the
Plan B pill and she's being really hard on herself
and he's being supportive and sweet.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Which I really love, Like, I love how sweet and
supportive he is. The cynical demon. Part of me did
write down was this young man raised by a stack
of glorious Steinhem books like because but I feel like
that is like a good use of like maybe slightly unrealistic,
Like it's a good model for young people to see that,

(36:38):
like this is hot. This is the person to have
a crush on. From a realism aspect of it's like, oh,
the one cis boy who has internalized nothing. But I
kind of he was raised by a stack of books,
and I celebrate that for him. I like that character.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
He's sweet, it's nice. Yes, part of me is just
like maybe teenagers are just like that nowadays. Well I
don't know. I don't talk to them, maybe.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Not talk to teenagers.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
I personally don't know one teenager. But I kind of
love that this is a model because I think that's
how we learn and how young people learn. Like ideally
a young person has seen this film and thought like, oh,
that's kind of cool, like and I just think that, like, yeah,
it perpetuates the cycle if we're just consistently like putting

(37:24):
in kind of like sludge into our you know, our
male characters. So I I like the sweetness, even though yeah,
maybe a touch over the top.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
I mean that's yeah, that's not like an actual That
was just me having watched thousands of movies and being like,
you know, but I'm not the target audience for this movie.
It's it's for teenagers.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, but it is nice to see a very sweet
and supportive teen boy character. And then they kiss on
the lips. Yeah okay. Oh. Then Loupe is about to
introduce Sonny to Logan and effectively come out to Sonny,
but then it appears as though Logan has stolen Sonny's

(38:08):
mom's van with Loupe's phone in it, so they're freaking out.
Sonny takes the pill, which might be Plan B or
it might be PCP, and she starts yelling at Loupe.
They get in a fight. They eventually find the van
via like the Find My Friend app on Sunny's phone.

(38:30):
It's at a party which Lupe and Sonny have to
crash to confront Logan and get the keys back.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Writing wise, I love when like modern technology is used
well within a teen movie, because I feel like some
writers give up and they're just like their phone drowned.
But I love I was like, of course, that is
exactly what a teenager would do, is like, and that
would just be an automatic reaction. I thought that was great.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Or it's like, I don't know how to implement modern
technolog in my story. So it's set in two thousand
and one.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right, which is a lot of contemporary movies where they're
just like, well, this could all be solved with Google Maps,
so I need I need to turn back time. It's like, no,
you can still fuck yourself over in the present day.
We do it all the time every day.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, okay. So they find Logan. She's like, sorry, it
was my lead singer Xander, who's on drugs. He took
the van. Meanwhile, the pill that Sonny took was probably speed,
so she's you know, like at an eleven, there's altso
high jinks. They eventually get the keys back. Loupe and

(39:39):
Logan say goodbye, and then Sonny and Lupe head off
in the car. Sonny's like, why didn't you tell me
you're queer? And Loupe is like, I was afraid it would,
you know, change the dynamic in our relationship, and Sonny's like, no,
I love you forever, no matter what. Then Kyle calls
Sonny and Loope picks up the phone, and Kyle starts

(40:01):
talking about all the regret he's feeling and the sin
he committed by having premarital sex, and Lupe hears all
this and she's like, what the hell I thought Hunter
is the person you had sex with. Why did you
lie about that? And so they just kind of like
air all of their grievances and talk about their feelings

(40:22):
and insecurities, and then Kyle's just like, what about my
feelings and they're like, we don't care anyway. It's the
next morning. They arrive at the Planned Parenthood in Rapid City,
only to discover that this location has been permanently shut down.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
God, this is devastating.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, Sonny breaks down crying. This was like, you know,
her last hope kind of thing. She really wants her mom.
Loupe consoles her. They drive back home, Loupe and her
father reconcile. She doesn't explicitly come out to him, but
it seems like he knows or he's like getting the hint,

(41:00):
and he seems fine with it. Meanwhile, at Sonny's at first,
her mom reprimands Sonny for taking the car and being reckless,
but Sonny explains that she was trying to get access
to the morning after pill cut to the pharmacy in
their town. Sonny's mom gets Plan B for her, so yay,

(41:21):
she finally got access to the healthcare she needed.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I loved I didn't see the ending coming, and I
really appreciated that her mom showed up for her. That
was like, really really cool.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, it was great. And then the button at the
end of the movie is that Sonny's mom finds the
penis ring from the drug dealer's penis.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
The end, Woo gives a little cent.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
And they're like, no, put that near your face. Okay,
that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and then
we'll come back to discuss.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
And we're back.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Okay, Danielle, where would you like to start?

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Oh my, there's so much content. I mean maybe at
the sex scene. Does that feel appropriate?

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, let's start with what we didn't like and then
get into the yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah. So I'll place a content warning here for what
is arguably sexual assault because I think that the consent
in this sex scene between Sonny and Kyle is very,
very murky, way murkier than I would have liked.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Or hoped, which I found frustrating because at this point
the movie is like kind of like puffing its feathers
out as like having an understanding of consent in several
jokes that come before this, including like two minutes earlier,
where you know, Sonny says as a joke like I'm
not gonna take no for an answer with consent, of course,
and you know, Lupe is like, yes, of course, but

(42:57):
then the movie doesn't really seem to understand it was frustrating.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah. So basically what happens is that Sonny initiates sexual
contact with Kyle without like checking in with him first.
You can see the shock on his face as she
does this. She proceeds onward. So like the idea that
anything that is not an enthusiastic yes is a no,

(43:23):
using that as a metric or like that is the criteria,
I'm like, he is not giving an enthusiastic yes really
at any point in this scene.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Because she says like, I'm touching your thing or whatever,
and he says, yes, you are, which is not consent.
It's just stating already happening to him, right.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
And then eventually they like things progress and he says
he does say like, yes, I want this, but we
don't know if that's just because he's feeling pressured into
this because Sonny is coming on very strong. We don't
know anything because they have not openly talked about this
in advance, so we're not sure how he's actually feeling.

(44:03):
They have sex immediately afterwards, Kyle freaks out. He feels
instant regret and guilt throughout the movie. He's calling her
like wanting to talk about this. She blows him off.
And I'm not saying that like women should be doing
unnecessary emotional labor for men, but like, but this is.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
A different situation.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
It really I felt like that character again, just like
there are moments where the movie chose comedy over what
the movie is about, and it felt like Kyle's character
was a part of that where they're like, oh, he's
a magician, he's a loser. He loves his youth group
too much, so we don't need to care about whether
he is given consent for things or or you know,

(44:45):
as he's calling her later that I feel like the
movie kind of treats it as absurd that a SIS
man would feel a type of way about anything. And
it's like, you know, religious trauma around sex affects people
all genders, and I feel like, again, it's for some reason,
you know, the movie treats certain like it treats Sonny

(45:07):
and Lupez trauma and concerns and shame as valid, but
then there are exceptions to that, and I just it
really bummed me out for Kyle because it just felt
like and again it's like, you can you can show
empathy for that character without the movie becoming about sis boys.
Like I just thought it was weird that it seemed

(45:28):
like the movie took almost any opportunity to like blow
off and make fun of this character who appeared to
be first of all, like you're saying, Caitlin, the consent
was very murky, and even if the consent, even if
we're saying the consent was given, was experiencing a lot
of like religious shame and trauma after it, and that
is like a valid thing. I don't know, I was

(45:50):
just confused about that point.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
Yeah, yeah, I have. I have a couple thoughts on this.
So I think, like number one, Sonny appears to be drunk, right,
so theoretically she can't consent and a sexual experience shouldn't
have taken place. However, is this how like high schoolers
engage in sexual acts? Like, yes, a lot of high
schoolers are drinking and are engaging in sexual acts in

(46:14):
this way. So in sex ed class we like to
kind of talk about harm reduction right of being like, sure,
maybe it's not like the best case scenario, but are
we still going to participate in it? Yes? How can
we do it a little bit safely? So I do
think that like the harm reduction lens as a sex
educator feels kind of relevant here because like, people do
drink and people do have sex when they drink, and

(46:34):
it's similar to when we say abstinence only that doesn't work.
So I think like that framework is important for me.
And also I do think that the consent piece could
have been added here with just like two lines, like
if Sonny's character before she started touching him just said
like can I touch you? And if you just was
like uh okay, yeah, like it was just a small

(46:56):
piece there. Yeah, and then just like one more check
in maybe before you know, she took out the or
he took out the condom, or before they use the condom,
like that could have changed the entire scene. So I
do think it's like small little errors that were made,
and I want to celebrate the parts about it. As
a sex educator. That felt very unique and like better

(47:18):
than most other sex scenes that I have seen, kind
of having this lens. One there's the depiction of condoms,
which is pretty rare true. Two there's the depiction of
kind of like, oh, like there was kind of a
mess up, like she refers to it later as like
he touched her taint with his penis, but like, you know,
just this messiness of like first time sex. They don't

(47:39):
even kiss, which is kind of this like showing of
how awkward that these two people are in their bodies
and uncomfortable. They show kind of her gasping out of
like how potentially uncomfortable it is, and the session lasts
no more than ten seconds, right roughly about that amount
of time. So I just like there was a lot

(48:01):
that this sex scene could have improved upon, but also
got right as someone who like very much is kind
of laser eyed at sex scenes.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Totally fair. Yeah, it just sucks that like all those
positives or like authentic, realistic portrayals of it are overshadowed
for me, at least by this murky consent situation. Like
you said, it would have worked so much better if
she asked, can I touch you here? And if his
giving consent was far more enthusiastic and that you could

(48:32):
hear it in his voice and it seemed like both
parties were very willing participants in this situation. It just
the fact that there isn't that enthusiastic yes all the
way through and the movie like, the only thing that
needs to happen for the story to proceed onward in
the way that it does is for the characters to
have sex and for him to ejaculate and the condom

(48:55):
gets stuck inside of her like that's why she tries
to get the plan b pill. So could we have
gotten there in a way that the consent was way
more freely given yes than we should have?

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Although I mean, speaking to your point, Danielle, I do
feel like it is relevant because because you are like
educating real kids, and I guess I just I wish
that if this is the way that that sex scene went,
that the parts, like Kaitlyn, what you're addressing, like came
up at any point, because I think that there is

(49:29):
some instructiveness in that, because, like you're saying, Danielle, so
many early sexual experiences because of the lack of sex said,
are awkward even if you have all the information, but
if you've been poorly educated, it can like really fuck
young people up. And you know when you add drinking
into that, like and if we're seeing one of those situations,

(49:49):
which Kaitlyn, like you've basically described, like it is a
very messy situation, enthusiastic consent hasn't been given, then I
feel like, based on the kind of movie that this is,
you should address that in some way, you know, like
either by adding the exchange you're talking about, Danielle, which
would resolve a lot of the problems, or like, I
think that there is a lot of value for a

(50:10):
movie marketed at teens like to show a sex scene
that is imperfect, because most likely that's I mean, the
way a lot of initial sexual experiences are and then
watch the characters have to deal with it and talk
about it and process those emotions. But that doesn't happen.

(50:30):
It doesn't feel like the movie is really built to
be able to do that, and it like completely disregards
the feelings of one of the participants. So it's just like, well,
a movie that was like less leaning hard on kind
of appatawi stuff at moments where you know, I cannot
tell a lie. I did roll my eyes when it

(50:52):
was the wrong drug. I was like, Okay, you know
I've seen it, but you know that like leaning into
stuff like that. To me, if that's the tone, it's
probably not a movie that's going to be able to
address a very complicated encounter like that. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
But it does handle other things so well. Yeah, So
I don't know why it flubbed so badly on this
very important thing.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
My assumption is that they were trying to show the
realistic portrayal rather than show like a model example of
like what clear enthusiastic consent would look like. And yeah,
like ultimately it's valid. Yeah, yeah, Like I totally obviously
agree with you in that, like enthusiastic yes must happen
throughout the experience. If you revoke consent, you don't. You

(51:37):
no longer have consent all the things that we teach.
And at the same time, I'm kind of torn just
to think, like, do teens kind of again I don't
know a single teen, but do teens kind of see
depictions of quote unquote perfect consent and roll their eyes
at it and say like this is not realistic? Like
what is the balance of saying like, I'm going to
teach you what the correct way to talk to people

(51:59):
are and how to get consent and how does it
look like in the moment for you? And like, what
what does that look like to have that conversation with
young people?

Speaker 1 (52:08):
That's a great question. Yeah, it almost feels to me
like they wanted to show the awkwardness of a first
time penetrative sexual encounter. It's a very common thing, not
just for people having sex for the first time, but
also like I have awkward sexual encounters regularly and I'm
almost forty, Like sex is awkward and can be really

(52:31):
silly and awkward. To be clear, I am giving and
receiving enthusiastic consent every time, but I'm talking about just
like oops, you put your dick in the wrong hole,
or oop, you're half flaccid still, or you know, just
like all those bodies awkward things, like the bodies are weird,
and these things happen continuously throughout our lives. So I

(52:51):
think what they were doing is like trying to show
and again, especially for two people who have never had
sex them having sex for the first time, how awkward
that would be. But I think I think that they
thought that not giving and receiving enthusiastic consent was like
part of the awkward experience. But you could have still
had that enthusiastic consent and it still have been also

(53:13):
very awkward on top of that. Totally to my point
of like I still I again give and receive enthusiastic
consent and still have very awkward sex from time to time.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
But I mean, I guess I feel like I'm following
something maybe somewhere in the in the middle here where
I agree. I mean, like that is how I have sex. Now.
I don't know that that's how I knew how to
have sex when I was having these initial encounters, So
I do believe that there is value to it, But like,
I just think the movie kind of with it. I

(53:44):
had a more articulate thought in my head just a
moment ago. But oh, even with like, I think that
all of the information that you could pull from these
characters that we already know again, I just feel like
the fact that Kyle never physically appears again in the
movie after that is a big problem because I think
we could, you know, safely assume that Sonny is very sheltered.

(54:07):
She's clearly gotten info, right, but it seems like she
you know, both of the main girls in this movie
are from pretty like conservative value families. They're not openly
talking about sex. I don't think it's out of the
line of possibility that they are under educated about consent.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Especially in the sex said class they're taking with Rachel Dratch.
Like they're not learning about consuders.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
I don't think Rachel Dratch is teaching them.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
They're showing eighties VHS films totally.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
And then like Kyle is in that same class and
also is hyper religious, and you know, you're not getting
great sex said at church. Uh, generally, I've never heard
of it happening, And so I think that like, within
these characters, there is a way to understand why this

(54:58):
initial encounter would not be morally perfect or like a
textbook perfect sexual encounter. But if that's the choice that's
being made, and the movie's agenda is to better educate
its target audience, I feel like it might even be
more instructive to have these characters talk about it, you know.
And I like that it's not like, oh, you know,

(55:18):
I think that if this movie came out thirty years ago,
I'd be like, oh, I had sex with Kyle and
now I'm in love with him, and like they would
like it makes sense they don't end up together. I
don't even know if they like each other, like, but
that if they would like take each other's emotional response
to this uncomfortable first encounter seriously, I feel like that
could actually be really instructive for the target audience. I

(55:41):
don't know either way. It doesn't happen well.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
He does try to reach out to her several times
to be like, can we talk about this?

Speaker 3 (55:48):
I need to process he's saying, and.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
She's being very very dismissive of that, and then that
magically resolves when Kyle calls her back. I think it's
no sun to apologizes to her. He's like, sorry for
freaking out I feel fine now, and it's just like,
I mean maybe, but also like you were really upset
and guilt stricken about this and you didn't get a

(56:12):
chance to talk through it with this person.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Like not to defend one of the few sis men
in this movie, but I really felt I really really
felt for Kyle because it almost felt like putting yourself
in a teenage situation if you I mean again, it
feels like Sunny is almost behaving like in a way
that a boy in a movie would have behaved, yeah,
like years ago, and it would have been presented as

(56:36):
pretty shitty behavior, because I think it kind of is
pretty shitty behavior, no matters it. And if the shoes
on the other foot and you're Kyle and you're reaching
out and you're like, I really need to talk about
like this. I feel really conflicted about it, and we
don't really get to find out the reasons why. I
think it's implied that it's religious. But then I think

(56:56):
you assume because it doesn't seem like Kyle has much
of a support that he could go to about this.
You can't bring this to your church youth group, really,
and so it just seems like he apologizes to her,
not because he's actually processed it, but because he's like
embarrassed that he's bothered by it and she's not communicating
with him. And so it almost felt like that character

(57:19):
like kind of doubles down on shame where he felt
this religious shame for losing his virginity before he was
quote unquote supposed to, and then feels compounded shame by
feeling like, oh, and I'm I was like bothering her
by wanting to discuss it afterward. I just felt bad
for the kid. He's not real, thankfully, just for Kyle.

(57:43):
It's a fictional film, but I was like, Kyle was,
you know, I feel like an under explored character. Also,
he was in a Spy Kids movie, but like not
the Originals, the one where Joel McHale's the dad.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
WHOA, Yeah, interesting, is he a spy kid?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
He's one of the spy kids. He's in Spy Kids
four D. WHOA the one you can smell.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Also, I'm so sorry to interrupt about Spy Kids, but
just briefly, if you guys who are listening are interested
in hearing about kuhou Verma's takes on that sex scene
as an actor, I interviewed her, and a big chunk
of the interview of Sex with dB is just like
talking about what that is like to have to enact

(58:31):
that with a fellow actor, and how to feel safe
on set and kind of like what that really looks
like to be mimicking that essentially in front of a
room full of other people, depending on if it's an
open or close set, and so yeah, I just I
just found it fascinating as someone who is a nerd
about movies and TV shows about like the way in
which these things actually happen, and just like what her

(58:54):
portrayal was of it and her experience playing that character.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, that rocks. Yeah, listeners, go check out that episode
of sex ad with dB.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
And I'm glad that there's more discussion on I mean,
it's been a huge round of discourse recently about consent
on set and about intimacy coordinators and a pastor of
the changing landscape there because everyone feels the type of
way about it, and I think a lot of those
takes are kind of like underinformed.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
The other thing, the other scene that I thought was
really flubb a dub dubbed was the playground scene aka
the scene where Sonny considers performing oral sex on that
guy Andy in exchange for a fake ID.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
We love to see Moses Strom get work, but at
what costs?

Speaker 1 (59:46):
But at what costs?

Speaker 3 (59:47):
Now?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
To be clear, I do not have a problem with
people trading sex for goods or money as long as
all parties involved are consenting adults.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Those the two well, that's the thing, is like, yeah,
they're under duress.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
They're under duress, they're under duress, and one of them
is not an adult. In fact, both of them might
not be adults.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
And Moses and Moses Storm is like, all right, he's
in his thirties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he's like a
joke of like, oh, I mean it is a funny joke,
but in the context of the scene it doesn't work.
It's like, no, I'm seventeen too, I just have never
drank water. A funny joke. That is a funny joke
to be visibly thirty, but like it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
But also we don't know if he's lying. We don't
know what's going on. We do know that Sonny as
a character is a seventeen year old child. Yes, Kuhu Verma,
who plays Sonny, was I think twenty five at least
when the movie came out, So the actor was an adult,
but the teenage character is in this scenario. There's an

(01:00:48):
element of coercion here. Sonny clearly does not want to
do this. She's acting out of desperation. She's visibly uncomfortable.
This whole thing is framed comedically for some reason. Obviously
she doesn't go through with it, but she's like in
this scene where like her face is mere inches away
from a like completely full frontal nudity penis and she's

(01:01:12):
seventeen years old, And Danielle, I'm curious to hear your
thoughts on it, but yeah, that was my take.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
I was very surprised by the penis. I'll say that
I didn't see it coming.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah on Molana's Internet.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Dear lord, I think they could have, you know, created
the same comedic effect if he had like a big
septum piercing right, Like, it could have been a similar
kind of thing where somehow her hair gets caught, you know,
she tries to steal it and her hair gets caught
in the septum piercing without us needing to have, you know,
this sexual favors moment included, so I don't necessarily buy that, like,

(01:01:52):
oh well, it had to come back around for the
mom to smell the cock ring or the penis ring
at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Especially after like such a nice moment with the mom.
I was like, this is the beat, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Yeah, it's not great. I think that. I guess it
was used as like a way to show again their
desperation and in order for them to get the speed
in order for Sonny to I don't know, it feels
like it was kind of maybe central in the writer's
eyes to like create this offshoot of what happens and
the high drinks that ensue. But I didn't love it.

(01:02:26):
It made me uncomfortable and I wish it wasn't really there.
And at the same time, I guess I understand, yeah,
how desperate they are Sonny is in particular to get
this medication, and does kind of show that, like maybe
we could use it as a metaphor that young people
are basically willing to do whatever it takes in order

(01:02:50):
to get the reproductive health care they need. But this
I'm stretching myself here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
It's so hard, Okay, I also saying it is so
hard to straddle genres in the way that this movie
is trying to straddle genres, because this movie very much
does want to be a odyssey of like broad comedy
and you know, you have all the appetite beats of
like you can name any comedy of the past twenty

(01:03:17):
years starring teenagers and someone takes the wrong drug and
all of a sudden, Guy Fieri's there or someone is
a corn cop or whatever the fuck happens, which again,
this is like my taste coming out where I just
am like, I'm so sick of it, but like I
feel like it. This movie's trying to straddle being a
broad comedy that will appeal to a broad audience and

(01:03:38):
a very personal, thoughtful story about reproductive health, and often
it works. But the moments where it doesn't, it like
to me, really doesn't, and this is one of them
for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
To your point, Danielle, if the writers are trying to
communicate like this is the lengths that people have to
go to when they don't have access to reproductive health care, like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
It shouldn't be a funny care. There are a million.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Other ways to do that though, to heighten, to have
a very like heightened situation that's wild and hijinxy and
potentially dangerous even without putting a minor in a situation
where she is going to basically be coerced into a
sexual act.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
For laughs that aren't even funny for laughs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Yeah, it's like this is not like not the wokest take,
but it's like, if you're going to do something that
tone deaf, it better be arguably sunny. But this is
just like, it's not, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Not, it's not, and it's really icky. And again, there
were a million other scenarios that these characters could have
been put in that would have communicated the same level
of like look at the lengths that people have to
go to without this like very compromising, very uncomfortable situation.
So didn't work from at all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
I think the planned Parenthood scene does this, and like
it's not a comedic scene, but like I'm sure we'll
get to it, so maybe I should pause on that.
But I guess just like we see the planned Parenthood
is permanently closed and we just see her breakdown and
weep in the parking lot, like this is many people's
reality and when they can't get the reproductive healthcare that

(01:05:23):
they need and that they deserve, and that they want
so badly, And I thought that was a very moving,
realistic part of the film.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
And that's like where the movie is at its most
earnest and thoughtful, and for that to come on the
heels of I think I honestly, the late second act
hijinks just were like not hitting for me very much.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
The party, I completely agree, it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Just wasn't a different movie where and it was and
not that this isn't true to reproductive health, but it
was out of context where it was like they sort
of have a series of male obstacles to overcome, but
they're not people who are trying to prevent them from
getting care, just guys doing something silly in the way,
in the same way that I felt like the Edie

(01:06:06):
Patterson character, and I'm I am Edie Patterson's number one fan,
but the gas station character felt like, just when you
think that that character is going to be like a
genuine ally to them, she just says something completely ridiculous
and it chooses broad comedy over a moment that would

(01:06:28):
advance the plot in a way that makes more sense,
not like because it seems like, you know, we're led
to believe that that character defends defends the girls when
they're being sexually harassed in the gas station and parking lot,
but then she throws that away by being like, oh no,
I was coming out here to hit you with a
bat because you stole a friendship bracelet. So it just

(01:06:49):
goes with like the dumbest joke on the table instead
of building a character. I don't know, you jut up
a towel movies.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
I guess this is my I mean, luckily this is
not one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Uh but like energy wise, you know what idea, it's
like we're too high the person said something a little
silly instead of something that is advances the plot.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Yeah. I do want to shout out the writer director
team here. So this movie was written by Protheki Schosren
of Austin and Joshua Levy and directed by Natalie Morales.
So it's like a predominantly women behind the camera and
these major creative roles women of color at that. So
that's encouraging. However, some of these scenes didn't quite work.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Also, a shout out for behind the camera also a
woman a cinematographer and composer, which I feel like we
don't see very often, So shout out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
To true hell. Yeah, I don't want to talk about
the things that I thought worked really well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Yeah, sorry, we've been we've been harping on the things
that don't work for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
They are glaring, is the thing, and they feel very
out of place in this otherwise thoughtful, funny movie. Yeah,
because I think that is most of the movie. Like
most of it is done well. It's complicated and sensitive
topics are generally handled with care, except for those couple
scenes we already talked about. But like I mean, obviously

(01:08:15):
there's commentary in this movie on the state of reproductive
health care and education in the US and how abysmal
it is because you see like the ridiculous sex Said curriculum,
which promotes abstinence until marriage and perpetuates double standards of
you know, women who have sex are damaged, tainted sluts.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
The fake like car sex Said video is very funny
to me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's like great satire spot on. Yeah, there's
commentary on just the overall limited access to reproductive healthcare
in the US. This includes people with uteruses have to
travel hours and hours away just to get access because
it's not available in their area or it's highly restricted.
Allah pharmacists invoking conscience clauses and refusing medication to people

(01:09:10):
if it conflicts with their personal beliefs, and that is
almost always rooted in like very shamy, like slut shamy
type of mentalities.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Yeah, it's just like anti choice rhetoric. Yeah. Yeah, so
that someone at CVS can change the course of your
fucking life.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Yeah right. The Planned Parenthood being shut down probably because
it was defunded or you know, something happened along those
lines that this place that is otherwise a beacon of
you know, reproductive health care is inaccessible now to people
who need it. So that commentary that's present throughout the
movie is very effective. The focus on female friendship is

(01:09:52):
really nice. There's queer representation, there's nice like mother daughter
and father daughter relationships, reppers and in the like romantic subplot.
Like I thought most of that stuff was handled very well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
I liked that their friendship, Like the way that the
two main characters are written is I think, really really thoughtful.
Where they're flawed in all of the ways that seventeen
year olds are flawed. They are, I mean I think
about sometimes, yeah, like the really close friendships you have
when you're young, and how both you feel like you

(01:10:25):
can share anything with this person, and also their opinion
matters so much that it can lead to like withholding
parts of yourself because if your best friend judges you,
who do you have? And I like that you know
they are these sort of like oasis is of safety
for each other, and they love their parents, but their
they can't talk to their parents about shit, and that

(01:10:47):
even in this like close trusted friendship, there are these
worries of like if you know every part of me,
will that change our friendship permanently? Like again, like between
the two main characters, like it's so layered and I'm
still so funny, and I love moments where they're like
singing to the Jesus Trap song. It's so funny, it's
so sweet and.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Like yes, very original, it was great.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Like and it feels like a real lived in friendship.
And I think also with Sunny's character, I mean, also
it's amazing that it's two women of color who are
leading this, which so rarely happens in any genre. But
I feel like with Sunny's character, she is I think
you could argue like the main main character and I don't.

(01:11:31):
I think that usually that role would be reversed. I
think that, like Sonny, if you wrote down her qualities
of like she is less sexually experienced, I feel like
she's has more of like how people normally write sidekicks,
and it centers her, and it centers her story and
her needs, and it doesn't shame her for inexperience, and

(01:11:52):
it like really fully explores that. And I appreciate that
because I think that, yeah, like it's a quote unquote
sidekick cod character who is given the full space to grow,
and that that doesn't take away from Lupe's story either.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
True.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Yeah, I was just gonna ask if we could talk
about the way that Lupe's queer identity is kind of
like portrayed and how this, like you know, is shown
throughout the film, just because I feel like it was
just so I don't know, it felt really heartwarming to me,
and like, you know, you could tell how nervous she
was to kind of tell Sonny and the fact that
you know, half of the movie we don't know that

(01:12:30):
she's queer along with Sonny, we're kind of kept in
the dark as the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
And I just.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Thought her relationship with Logan was like her budding romance
was like very sweet and tender, and it felt realistic
that like, these two people probably met on like snapchat
on Instagram or something and they hadn't met in real
life because they're like an hour and a half away
from each other two hours and like they can't drive
to see each other or whatever it is. So there

(01:12:55):
are just a lot of great parts to it that
I really enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
I really liked that like it divert. One of the
like diversions from this like again is like appatoo formula
that I feel like this movie pulls from in moments
is that before they get to the party. And also
I felt like it weirdly undercut Logan's character that the
car was taken all that stuff, where it's like, I
don't think I would be necessarily trusting Logan quite as quickly. Again,

(01:13:21):
but that's a separate thing. But I really liked that
the movie took a moment and I think in what
a normal teen comedy would be like hyjenks hyjenks hyjenks
that both of their crushes end up being sweet and
decent people who like and accept them, and you just
get like a really grounded character moment and it's still
funny and I just wish the whole movie did that,

(01:13:43):
because I really like the scene between Sunny and Hunter
and the diners very sweet and especially I mean like
Lupa and Logan, I'm like, I love them. I hope
that they snapchat each other for as long as snapchat exists,
because it just like it was such a sweet encounter
and like it was one of those cool I don't know,
I like portrayals of moments like that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
She's teaching her to play the drums too, just giving
kind of little little crush moments.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
It's really really sweet and it doesn't like in the
way so many teen movies do. It's not like they're
gonna get married. This is forever. It's like this was
a really formative, safe, wonderful experience that like moves Lupey
forward and wanting to claim her identity and like it's
really and I think that like there that with Lupe.

(01:14:30):
I mean, she lives in South Dakota, she's the daughter
of a pastor. I think that her anxiety is around that,
even if she does fully accept herself, is realistic for
the time and place that this movie takes place in,
and it's like really nice to see Sonny, you know,
doesn't even have to think about it, Like she's like,
you're being ridiculous because on paper, sure, but also it's

(01:14:53):
like when you think about who Lupia is, what her
experience is, and like how important Sonny is to like
her supports that it would feel like a risk for
her and it's just really sweet to see her be
accepted and just like have a beautiful moment with Logan.
I wish that the whole party scene after that just
didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
I don't like that, don't like the whole van thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Xander. I was like, who what is that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
He was in? What was that Netflix show? He was
in a Netflix show that I saw playing like an
a whole team. I can't remember which one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Was this this type cast actor?

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Yes, what reasons why? That's what show he was in?

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Oh god, I can't believe that show came out in
the last ten years. So what a what a moment?

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Not great.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Another thing I really like about the queer romance is
that it gets as much screen time and narrative weight
as the hetero romantic subplot between Sonny and Hunter, which
is pretty rare to see considering that if there is
a queer subplot in a movie, well, first of all,
they're often non existent, or if there are queer characters,

(01:16:10):
there's only kind of like an implied romance between them,
or if it is a more fully realized subplot, it'll
take up less space in the story than a hetero subplot,
or if they do kind of get together, there won't
be any physical contact between them. But we see Loupe
and Logan kiss before the straight people kiss each other,

(01:16:35):
and I was like, WHOA, that's also very rare to see.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
They're going at it in the real estate fan exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
And then yeah, like hetero romances are often portrayed in
ways that leaves a lot to be desired in movies.
But I really like the romantic subplot between Sonny and
Hunter in the sense that Hunter is a really sweet guy.
Because so many hetero romances the movie is asking the
audience to root for a very toxic man, a very

(01:17:04):
toxic dynamic, and in this case, like as we said,
it's like, are there young teen boys like this that
exists in the world. I don't definitely do. I'm not
saying they don't, guys. I'm sorry. I think Hunter's a
corny character and I like him, yeah, he like we
see him challenge those sexist double standards. In the sex
Said Class, he has this really nice interaction with Sonny

(01:17:26):
where she tells him like, I'm a slut. I did
this horrible thing. I had sex with someone I don't
even like, and now I have to get the morning
after pill. And she's being very like judging and shaming
of herself and he's like, no, no, no, like, you
don't have to feel like that. He's not judging her
at all or shaming her. Like it was a really
refreshing thing to see. I think he's really sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Yeah, And then he responds by saying like, I mean
he doesn't say this exactly, but I kind of like that.
She's like I'm a slut, I'm awful and all this stuff,
anticipating judgment from him, and then he's like, well, no,
you're a nerd like me, Like, oh, it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Also the way that he kind of talks about the
shitty sex ed abstinence film that they see in sex
Ed Class, he actually is the one that sticks up
for girls and women and says like, well, what about
his car? Why aren't we seeing his car? Because they're
using this metaphor that the wife in the film's car

(01:18:25):
is broken and busted aka she has had sex before
marriage and therefore no one will want her, which, by
the way, are metaphors that many states still use, and
they're really horrific sex head classes with miss and disinformation
and shaming tactics. And I really like that he's the
one that is questioning this because it feels like he
is truly showing up as an ally in that moment

(01:18:47):
for them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
It was nice. Does anyone have any other thoughts about
the movie?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I just, I guess wanted to acknowledge the parents one
more time that I you know, again, it's like the
parents don't appear very much. But I did like just
sort of the portrayal, especially between Sonny and her mom.
I think that, like Lupa and her dad, for me,
is like a little bit rushed at the end, where

(01:19:15):
I feel like the guy we met at the beginning
wouldn't keep asking her where she was, Like was it
his whole thing that he was overbearing and not negligent?
Like whatever, it resolves, and I like that it's sort
of left as like a this Lupa is not going
to be comfortable coming out to her father overnight. But
they have this moment of connection and love and it's good.

(01:19:36):
But I really really liked Sonny's relationship with her mom,
and like, you know, not everyone is lucky enough to
have that experience, but I've had times like that with
my mom where it's like you, it's not even a
question to Sonny, I can I talk to my mom
about this? She's like, no, I can't. I will be judged,
I will be shamed. That's just her assumption based on

(01:20:00):
her mom's behaviors. Seems like a valid assumption. But then
having like those moments when you're a teenager of like
your parent having to sort of recognize your humanity in
order to show up for you. I really appreciated that
her mom was able to do that for her, and
that she demolished the guy at CVS and like made

(01:20:21):
sure that I don't know, I just I thought that
that was like a very sweet dynamic and that whole moment,
like at the when Sonny's at her lowess of like
I want my mom, Like who hasn't felt that way?
It's very very sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Yeah, I appreciated that as well. I also appreciate that
there is more racial diversity and body diversity in this
cast than you'd expect from a teen movie or any
movie in general. And something I also wanted to note
is that you do see a few examples of characters
making racist comments to Sonny and or Loupe, which those

(01:20:59):
characters challenge and mock. So it's just like nice to
see the evolution of the presence of racism in teen
comedies because in the you know, eighties, nineties, and early
two thousands and even like after that, the racism in
the movie was characters who we were supposed to be
rooting for being openly racist and hateful. This seems to

(01:21:22):
have mostly shifted to racism in a movie being framed
as wrong and bad, and the main characters who we
are rooting for are challenging it. So it's just nice
to see that shift because we've covered so many teen
movies of decades past where there were racist comments being
made and we were supposed to laugh along with them.

(01:21:43):
So it's just nice to see that shift.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
Totally. This is a tangential thing, but I wonder if
I could have one minute to kind of assess some
of like the science factual parts of Emergency contraception and
Plan B in this film, yeah, because I think that
that might might be helpful for people listening, because yeah,
there are just a few things that aren't really talked

(01:22:09):
about at all, and obviously they don't have the time
or the wherewithal, but we're here now, so I'd love
to share some things, please. So in terms of the
most effective emergency contraception option that there is, Plan B
is actually the third most effective emergency contraceptive option. The
first is the copper IUD, which must be inputted by

(01:22:32):
a medical provider. Quite unrealistic for people to get an
appointment asap after an accident happens, but the copper IUD
does reduce the risk of pregnancy by ninety nine point
nine percent, and you know it also has the added
bonus of preventing pregnancy for up to twelve years if
you are interested in IUD. The second most effective option

(01:22:53):
is an EC pill called Ella, and Ella has to
be prescribed by a medical provider taken within five days
of unprotect did sex, and it also works best for
people who weigh up to one hundred and ninety five pounds.
I don't know if y'all know, but there are kind
of weight suggestions for Plan B and for Plan B,

(01:23:14):
which is the most accessible emergency contraception pill, you can
get it, you know, on Amazon Prime, you can get
it at CVS your local store, and if you take
it as directed within seventy two hours after you've had it,
it can reduce your risk of pregnancy by up to
eighty nine percent, And if you take it within twenty
four hours, it works even better. So Sonny kind of
talks about this like ticking against the clock. She kind

(01:23:36):
of has this number of like sixty one percent. I
don't know where she got that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
It feels it's not correct.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
I don't know about that. All I know is the
seventy two hour mark. So yeah, so that's important to share.
And Plan B works best for people with uteruses that
weigh up to one hundred and sixty five pounds. If
you weigh more than this, you still should take Plan
B if it's your only accessible option, but it makes
it less effective. So I just think this is like

(01:24:03):
super fucked up that according to the CDC, the average
American person with the uterus age twenty and over is
actually one hundred and seventy point eight pounds. So for
the average person with the uterus, Plan B actually is
not as effective as it should be. So those are
kind of the main things I wanted to share, kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
Just to thank you for sharing that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Yes, hopefully they make some adjustments to make it more
body inclusive.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Inclusively people with userses like that's absurd.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that information. I
would like to talk a little bit more about my
upcoming hysterectomy, So I do want to acknowledge that both
as someone who has already gotten my tubes tied and
who is getting a hysterectomy, and while both of these

(01:24:56):
procedures were a challenge for me to get because of
bias in American health care health care in general, where
people with uteruses are seen as baby making machines and
it's their duty to bear children, and doctors will routinely
deny you access to these procedures. They will convince you

(01:25:17):
that you'll change your mind about wanting to have children,
all that kind of stuff. This is particularly true for
white people because there is a long history in the
US and elsewhere around the world of particularly black and
indigenous people with uteruses who have been forcibly sterilized without
their consent for eugenics purposes. So even though you know,

(01:25:40):
it was difficult for me to get these procedures to
exercise autonomy over my body and my reproductive health, it
is still a privilege that I was able to do
that because a lot of people don't have and have
not had that privilege, and they have been forcibly sterilized
when they might have wanted to have children. So you know,
the powers that be exercising control over reproduction has a

(01:26:02):
lot to do with racism and eugenics. So I just
wanted to acknowledge that, acknowledge my privilege in this situation.
And it's like, let people make their own decisions about
their own bodies, duh.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
But period point blank.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
Yeah, yeah, And like the same goes for just I mean,
women of color are being disbelieved in medical situations constantly
because you know, society conditions people to view them as
less human than white patients, which is just like, I
don't know, I think you hear a million stories to
that effect.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Absolutely. And then the final thing I wanted to talk
about is the etymology of the word hysterectomy buckle in everybody. So,
as we've said, a hysterectomy is the removal of the uterus,
so ectomy signifying the surgical removal of a specified part

(01:27:01):
of the body. But we're like, okay, hister, what's that.
What's that coming from? Well, it comes from the Greek
word hysteria, meaning womb, and the Latin word hystericus, meaning
of the womb. From these words evolved the concept slash

(01:27:21):
quote unquote medical condition of hysteria, which referred to any
number of health conditions that were diagnosed almost exclusively in
women and were believed to be caused by the uterus. Hence,
this term hysteria rooted in these Latin and Greek terms.

(01:27:44):
So I'm pulling from an article in useless etymology dot
com which points out that a nineteenth century American physician
named George Miller Beard compiled a seventy five page list
of possible symptoms of histil area, a list which he
claimed to be incomplete. Still, so seventy five pages wasn't enough.

(01:28:06):
There was more, according to him, But it included things
like heartburn, vertigo, headaches, choking, depression, poor attention span, jealousy,
who knows jealousy, anxiety, death, just name a few. You know,
we like when I hear the word hysteria, I associate
it with like not able to regulate your emotions, like

(01:28:31):
having emotional outbursts, like all this sexist.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Yeah, like giving someone a reason to dismiss you. Yeah, yeah,
yeah because yeah yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
So apparently, sometimes hysterectomies were performed to quote unquote cure
quote unquote hysteria, since doctors believed that the uterus was
the cause of these problems. Also, in ancient like Western medicine,
there was this condition wandering womb, in which the uterus

(01:29:04):
would band name right, in which the uterus would just
move around inside your body of its own accord. It
would just wander around in there, and that that was
thought to cause a lot of health issues and have
all these symptoms. This is, of course not a real condition,
but this is what old timey physicians used to think

(01:29:25):
was happening. Obviously, all of this speaks to a century's
long fear and distrust and dismissiveness towards people with uteruses
and their bodies and emotions. And I just think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
Wild that So it was like exclusion from the medical
field too.

Speaker 1 (01:29:44):
Yeah for sure, because I was like, why the fuck
is it called a hysterectomy. That's why. I don't know
how prominent this movement is, but it seems as though
there is a movement to rename the procedure to U directomy,
which sounds more accurate, at least more accurate. So yay,

(01:30:06):
I just had a you direct to me, everybody. But yeah,
that's what I wanted to say about it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Thank you. I mean yeah, truly, I know that I,
up until somewhat recently, was not well educated enough about
what a hysterectomy or you direct me as I will
call it beforeward, actually is and entails. This isn't a
criticism of the movie, because no movie is qualified to
take on everything, but I just wanted to acknowledge as well,

(01:30:37):
particularly because we're recording this two days after the second
Trump inauguration, that reproductive access for trans patients is also
something that is deeply under discussed, especially during a time
where trans healthcare is going to be increasingly under attack,
that this movie. I mean again, it's not a criticism
of this movie in particular, but because reproductive health health

(01:31:00):
has only really become harder to access since this movie
came out less than four years ago, it's just important to, yeah,
acknowledge that this is an issue that affects fucking everybody
and that it's not just you know, fem presenting people
who need access to healthcare and need to be.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
Believed and trusted totally. I mean bringing it back to hysterectomies,
many non binary and trans mask people seek getting a
hysterectomy as a part of their gender reforming care, and
that's an uphill battle for many, if not most of them.
So yeah, uh, definitely worth acknowledging. Yeah, does anyone have

(01:31:41):
anything else they'd like to say?

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
I liked the Jesus Trap song.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
We should catch the lyrics of that, Yeah, maybe make
a choreographed dance. Yeah, Yes, I guess the final yeah
thing that I want to drive home is that, like,
while there are many things that this movie could have
improved upon, could have you know, a few scenes that
maybe were unnecessary or some extra dialogue that was needed,
I do think that it is a step in the

(01:32:08):
right direction of portraying accurately what some of these issues
that folks who are teenagers, specifically you know, women of color,
girls of color are experiencing in these states, especially where
their rights are just consistently being taken away, and all
the more reason that we should bring attention to these

(01:32:29):
issues and also hopefully laugh a bit and feel like,
you know, sweet sweetness while we're learning about them.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
Yeah, there was nothing like this. No movie is like
this when I was a teenager that I could have got.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
I mean, I guess there was that scary thing from
nineteen ninety six you described.

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
To us, Oh yeah, Maternal Instincts where a deranged woman
tries to kill her.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Doctor after having the hysterical surgery. I totally agree with you, Danielle,
where it's like, we know, picked on this movie for
certain things, but this is this is the kind of
movie that again just doesn't exist and is important because
it leads to other movies like it ideally, and you know,
I mean, we've talked about so many movies like that

(01:33:12):
on this podcast that even though it hasn't been very
long since this movie came out, I hope, especially as
reproductive healthcare continues to be a very pressing issue, that
it will like inspire other filmmakers to make their version
of this movie and sort of continue to grow. And
also the fact that I really wish that more movies
like this because both movies. I think it is relevant

(01:33:35):
to say that both movies that came out around this time,
Unpregnant and Plan B were both streamer movies. I would
like to see movies like this actually get a proper
release and marketing campaign. But I think that these stories
are viewed in Hollywood circles as risky and like, Okay,
we want to do you know, we vote blue no
matter who, so we want to have this movie, but

(01:33:55):
like we can't actually promote it, you know, because this
is a movie that but I think like a lot
of people would really benefit from seeing. But I don't know,
I don't recall seeing very much promotion of it. Like
I think if this wasn't an interest I had and
an issue that matters a lot to me, I don't
know that this movie would have just come to me
in the way that Sonic three does. You know, not

(01:34:18):
that any teen movie gets Sonic three promotion, but you
know what I mean, Like, I think a proper theatrical
release and marketing campaign obviously makes a huge difference, and
you know, getting the movie to its intended audience and
also beyond to get you know, people who wouldn't normally
be thinking about reproductive health care because they don't perceive
it as affecting them.

Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
So like that Book Smart, I feel like BookSmart kind
of exists in this kind of tangential world where, yeah,
this is kind of like an elevated Book Smart when
it comes to like reproductive health issues and queer issues
and like all of these things.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Yeah, for sure. Oh, the movie does pass the Bechdel
test very handily, regularly between several different combinations of care,
which is predominantly Sonny and Loupe, but.

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
Also Lope and Logans, Sonny and our mom Doris.

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
Don't forget about door Doris.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
There's plenty of women chatting about this, and that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
Tell me about it. As far as our nipple scale,
where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
to five nipples, examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
I'm gonna give this between like a three and a
three and a half. I wish I could give it more,
but it's just those two scenes that really bothered me,
that feel so misguided and could have been rewritten in

(01:35:40):
such a way so easily that they wouldn't have been
so problematic and uncomfortable. It seems very discongruent with a
lot of the rest of the movie. That they're there
and that they're written the way that they are because
they deal with things like consent and sexual coercion. And
I'll give it three half nipples, docking it for those scenes.

(01:36:03):
But by and large, this movie does handle other things
very very well, and I do think it's a great
step in the right direction. Is a very like, Yeah,
more movies like this, please, minus those couple scenes that
were mishandled. But yeah, I'll go three and a half nipples,
and I'll give I'll split my nipples between the writer,

(01:36:24):
the director, the two main leads, and I'll give so
like three to all them. And then I'll give my
half nipple to the nineteen ninety six TV movie Maternal Instincts.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Yeah, where's the rev remake it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
I'll rewrite it and it'll be about me, a deranged
person who got a hysterectomy and is upset about it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna go three and a half as well.
I think speaking to your point, Danielle, that like it is,
this is a very important movie to exist. And the
two things I want to say because I know that
like there were times where I was coming down pretty
hard on this movie. This movie is tasked with a
lot that most movies haven't even attempted. So the fact

(01:37:11):
that that both happened happened with a director with a
uterus that this is a very important issue to happen
with leads to women of color, like all of these
things that rarely happen in movies are happening here and
are released on a major streamer. That is like no
small feat. So well, there are my gripes with the movie,

(01:37:32):
or my gripes with the movie, but there are so
few movies like this that it is kind of a
miracle that it exists in the way that it does.
And I also wanted to just say, even though I
wasn't able to find a lot of information about the
production specifically, but I would not be shocked if some
maybe not the initial sex scene, but the Moses storm scene.

(01:37:53):
It feels very studio notes to me, where it's just like,
make something silly happen. And again it's like that's this
is a Hulu movie. It is very much not outside
the realm of possibility that a couple like dipshit executives
are like, I haven't what if there was a Pepe
that was Peers like some shitty like I don't want

(01:38:14):
to assume that this was all like this was always
the most important thing to happen. That might explain some
of the tonal dissonance. Maybe that's inherent to the project.
I'm not sure, but it is a movie that's important
to exist, and the gripes that I have with it
are gripes that I don't have with other movies because
movies like this don't exist. So I hope it will
continue to lead to more movies that don't contain these issues,

(01:38:38):
that have wider releases. But I think Natalie Morales and
Pratheisterna Vasin have really done something amazing. And Joshua Olivia,
I guess, I don't know. I don't know. It's like
when people are like Noah Bombac wrote Barbie and like,
but like, did he did he? I really don't think
that he did. Like maybe he was nearby, like I
know they share a home, but like wrote the movie. Anyways,

(01:39:00):
I just don't believe that's that's a conspiracy theory. At
Line was like I think that she was just she
owed him a favor or something. Anyways, I'm going to
give it three and a half nipples, and I'm going
to yes, give one to Napalie Morales, one to protheys
rina vasin split one between kuhoo Verma and Victoria Morales,
and then I'm going to give my half nipple two

(01:39:27):
Sonny's Mom because I uh the character but also the actor.
Why not? But like the character because I was really
pleasantly surprised by and I really liked that ending beat
between the two of them. I think that that was
like a really thoughtful, cool beat. So yes, the character
Sunny's Mom gets my last half nipple.

Speaker 1 (01:39:48):
Lovely, Danielle, how about you?

Speaker 3 (01:39:51):
Yeah? Before my rating really quick, Jamie, you mentioned that
there aren't really many other movies like this, but I
want to shout out the movie fitting In. I don't
know if you I have heard of this movie, but
it stars Mattie Ziegler and it focuses on a teen
who's diagnosed with mrk H syndrome, which is a condition
where a person is born without a uterus. And it

(01:40:11):
is directed by Molly McGlynn, who I also had on
SEXI with dB recently to talk about this film and
Molly McGlynn. This is based on her own experiences, and
so just a really fantastic film, very well acted. Highly
recommend it if you're looking for more films to cover
about reproductive health care and conditions. But that is neither
here nor there. I'm going to give this film four nipples.

(01:40:35):
I think overall, I have ye hopefully planted my flag
about how important I think that it is that we're
showing realistic depictions of sex scenes. And yes, of course
we want enthusiastic consent no matter what, hands down period.
And I really like the way in which yeah, female
friendship is portrayed here, the kind of desire to get

(01:40:59):
reproductive healthcare needs met, and the kind of silliness that
happens along the way. I love the way that queerness
is depicted in this film. And yeah, just overall, I
really enjoyed this movie. I loved watching it a second
time around. I'm gonna give all of my nipples to
Kuhuverma and Victoria Morales. I think I just love these actors.

(01:41:23):
I love the way that they portrayed their friendship, and
that's where all my nipples are going.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
Yay, oh my gosh, thank you, and thank you for
joining us once again. And lending all of your expertise.

Speaker 3 (01:41:33):
Thank you for having me. This has been great.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Where can people follow you? Check out your work et cetera,
plug away.

Speaker 3 (01:41:41):
Yeah, check us out on Instagram at sex Ed with
dB podcast. You can listen to rom com bomb wherever
you get your podcast by just typing in sex Ed
with dB or rom com vomb that's vom And yeah,
you can check us out sex at with dB dot com,
us on TikTok at sex Ed with dB. And thank

(01:42:03):
you so much again Caitlyn and Jamie for having me.
This has been such a bless.

Speaker 1 (01:42:07):
Oh the pleasures all are.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
Thank you so much for joining us and giving us
so much good info because I was like, I learned,
I lived, I laughed and I learned. And now if
that's not a podcast, so thank you so much for
joining us anytime you fed us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast.
That's pretty much where we are social media wise. There
is there a healthy place to be on social media. Nope,

(01:42:31):
no time to talk about it, but if you want
to directly support the show, the best way is to
sign up for our Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot
com slash Bechdel Cast it's five dollars a month and
it gets to you too. Bonus episodes on a weird
theme from Caitlin and I every month, and access to
our back catalog of over one hundred and fifty episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
You can also grab our merch at teapublic dot com slash.
It's all designed by Jamie Ever heard of her? And yeah,
thank you for listening, Send positive vibes my way, I
guess as I recover from my U directomy. Yes, and

(01:43:16):
uh yeah, we'll be back next week. And with that,
let's uh, let's get in that mini van and have
a fun little road trip, shall we?

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
And move some real estate?

Speaker 1 (01:43:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by
Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited
by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike
Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosensky. Our logo and merch
is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to
Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

(01:43:57):
link tree slash Bechdel Cast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Plan B (2021) with Danielle Bezalel