Pride and Prejudice (2005)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the bechdodcast, the questions asked if movies have women
and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zephyn Beast start
changing with the Bechdelcast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello listeners, here we are, here we are, and what
are we doing?

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
We are unlocking a Matreon episode. Ever heard of it?

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I think? So?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Okay, great on the movie Pride and Prejudice two thousand
and five.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm so excited we're doing this. We don't unlock Matreon
episodes very often. If you're new to the show, we
have a Patreon aka Matreon where we do two bonus
episodes every month. Feel free to join if you enjoy
this episode. But the reason we're unlocking this specific episode
from a couple of years ago now is it's the
two thousand and five Pride and Prejudice. It is one

(00:53):
of the only even though we are a famously book
hating podcast, we read the damn book oh this time,
which I mean, you know, really, the return on investment
is extraordinary in this one. But the reason we decided
to release it now is because it is a very
popular request on the main feed and it is being
re released into theaters to celebrate the twentieth anniversary of

(01:17):
the film. So we thought, you know, why not now
and it is. You know, it is a movie near
and dear to my heart, and we really hope you
enjoy the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Indeed, we released this originally as a part of a
Matreon theme called Jane Arykay a austin August, in which
we covered two movie adaptations of Jane Austen books, this
one Pride and Prejudice, as well as Emma Period from
twenty twenty yep. So yeah, we're unlocking this one. One

(01:51):
last thing I'd like to plug is I am doing
a stand up show a little you know, an evening
with Caitlin Derante and friends in State College, Pennsylvania. Ever
heard of it? It's where I went.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Usually say that with very famous cities and not to
dispar as State College. But I was like, some people
might say no.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Some people might say no, Well, it's the home of
penn State University's main campus, which is where I went
to school the first time. I rarely talk about it
because it has nothing to do with my master's degree
from Boston University.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
For sure.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
But I'm doing a stand up show there as well
as I'm teaching a stand up workshop a couple days later.
So this is all on the weekend of April eleventh.
So the show is on April eleventh, the workshop that
I'm teaching is on April thirteenth. Tickets for those things

(02:49):
are on our link tree, as well as the description
of this episode. And I'd love for you to come
out if you're in the central Pennsylvania area or wherever,
do a little road trip. Check out ten States Campus.
It's pretty, it is very pretty, and then come see
me do comedy.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
You can't see me that weekend, I'll get my cousin's wedding,
And as far as I know, tickets aren't john sale
to the wedding, So go to Caitlyn show. Yeah, I
don't know. Maybe she'll fit it out later.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh damn hopefully.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Also jumping in here separately recording a voice memo because
I just confirmed another show on April fifteenth. I'm going
to be in New York City doing a show called
A Night to Remember with Caitlin Dorante. Because April fifteenth,
in addition to being the date of this show, is
also the date Titanic sank so of course, I'm doing

(03:40):
a Titanic themed stand up show about it at Union
Hall in Brooklyn with a really great lineup that includes
a lot of past Bechdel Cast guests, and I'm donating
proceeds from ticket sales to the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund.
So please, please please come to this show. It's going
to be a really fun time again. Tickets to all

(04:02):
of these events can be found at link Tree slash
Bechtel Cast. Scoot over there, grab your tickets, have the
best time, Come say hi after the show's and without
much further ado, here is our unlocked episode on Pride
and Prejudice.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
And now Tom wamscans as mister Darcy the Bedel Cast.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Jamie, you have bewitched me body and soul. Oh I
love I love you.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I like, I was getting so emotional. It's really beautiful.
It's really beautiful. Yeah, sorry, I know, I know, but
also like I kind of don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I'm like, wow, I don't know either.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
I truly like it's not there's no perfect love story,
but this is like, oh my god. Okay, welcome to
the Pride and Prejudice episode. First of all, I think
we should just acknowledge at the top we were wrong
to avoid this for so long, yeah, because we're like,
I mean, it was a lot of prep. We'll get there.
But I think that like as far as like effectively
told love stories about the complexities of love and getting

(05:13):
to know each other and like learning one another over
time and having empathy and compassion. And I was just like,
it's so good. I kept crying, like Darcy's ultimately he's
an act like that. I still wouldn't have ultimately gone
for Darcy. No, but I'm lying, well, okay, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Full of shit. Can watch this movie and be like, wow,
this tugs at my heart strings, and especially as someone
who is deeply cynical and is just much like Lizzie
thinks she's going to be an old maid, I think
that about myself. So I'm just like love. But then

(05:55):
I watched this movie and I'm like, maybe love Israel.
I don't know. But then also there's a lot of
things about the romance in this movie where I'm like,
I don't know about this.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
But then then it's like also in the historical context,
you're like.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Right, the like well, but then the other half of
my briend is like I don't care because love nobody.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
I know I got being, like nobody's perfect. After all,
all you can hope for is growth, and they both
grew so much it makes me cry. And also, I
know you still don't watch Succession, But to all of
the matrons who do watch Succession, this is just a
little chat but tween me and you, because what a

(06:35):
fun rewatch this is after you've seen I know I've
like described this to a million times Kitlin, But mister
Darcy on Succession plays the most cowardly man from the
Midwest that you've ever seen in your life. Like he's
just like a total Like it's hard to but he
plays a character named like Tom womscans and Okay, you

(07:00):
just have to see how different he is to fully
and this is a feminist podcast, and I'm like, Matthew
mcfattyan is the most talented actor in the world, but
like he's pretty amazing.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Is that how you say his name McFadyen.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, okay, which I only know because I watch all
his Succession interviews because I'm a dork. He's so good
and looks so different and it's also like whatever, fifteen
years later, as Tom womscans that I didn't realize, for
like the first season of Succession, that he was mister Darcy.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Whoa.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Okay, I'm done praising men. But I love Matthew mcfaddyan,
so pride and prejudice. Okay. We finally did it, and
and we read the book. Read we read the book book,
and we liked. Did you like? Did you I like?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I don't like the book, which I'm sure is like heresy,
it's blasphemy. I find it.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Books are boring.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Books are boring.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
No, I don't even think that's a controversial take point
in society. Its books are famously boring.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
It is written in language that is old enough that
I don't fucking understand a single word of it. There
are too many characters, there's a lot of just like
meandery story that doesn't really serve much of a function.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
We're not literary critics, okay.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
But I think the movie is a great example of
like an adaptation that very effectively takes a book that
I know is beloved, and I know it's great. I
just didn't understand. I didn't enjoy myself when I was
reading it. I found it confusing, and I don't know
who any of the characters are. But I think the
movie does a really good job of streamlining the story

(08:46):
and like condensing things and like really focusing the narrative
into a movie that wonder I've watched four times now.
Weak it's so like, we'll get there.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
I will say that the reason a lot of the
reason that the book is kind of feels like it's
repeating itself constantly and like introducing random people is because
it was released in three volumes. Oh yeah, that was
like a regency novel thing where you would get the
book in three chunks. So that's why I feel like
at some points it's either repeating yourself or like characters

(09:20):
that are in one section kind of disappear because you're like, well,
it's kind of like the second volume of Pride and Prejudice,
So these characters are here for now and then they're gone.
I did enjoy listen. I mean we both listened to
the Rosamond Pike Rosamond Pike, Rosamund Pike. I don't know
Rosamond Pike audio book, which is a delight. It was
really I was if matrons. If I'm sounding loopy today,

(09:44):
it's because I am. I was just in Florida for
a week.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
You're doing great.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
But I was in as in a hotel room in
Tallahassee last weekend, listening to listening to the Pride and
Prejudice audio book on like my portable speaker, and someone
like banged on the wall and was like, turn it
down because Rosmund Pike was just wailing. She was wailing
about you know, I didn't realize that the walls were

(10:09):
that thin, but it was a super it. So what
can you do?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean, and she's doing different voices. She's so versatile
in her performance.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
I love that she loved being in Pride and Prejudice
so much that she was like, yeah, one hundred percent,
Like hmm, what a fun way to be, just like
Jane Austen Cannon. Yeah, anyways, as you were saying, I
think that this, yeah, this book, this movie. Sorry, because
it was also adapted as a British mini series that
I know people love. Uh that I was like, I

(10:38):
thought I considered watching him, Like I already read a book.
This is so damn long.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I did watch the first half of the first episode
and I do intend to finish it, but it is
it is very long. Yeah, and I didn't have the
patience for it, and then time ran out.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
We know what happens in the movie. Okay, like we
know what happens in the story. But this is the
Joe Wright two thousand and five adaptation starring I would
say this is the millennial Pride in Prejudice. The mini
series is the gen X Pride and Prejudice. Sure, sure,
this is the millennial Pride and Prejudice. It's Kieran Knightley,
it's Tom from Succession, It's Donald Sutherland, it's I kind

(11:20):
of and it was kind of fun. I hadn't seen
this movie, and well, okay, what's your history with it?
I loved Pride and Prejudice in middle school. I loved
Jane Austen in middle school. This was early into my
you know, look, I'm not like other girls. And I
was really, do you like books? Because I like book

(11:41):
and reading, and so I was kind of cultivating. I
was hacking away at that persona while. I was wearing
a back brace because I really needed something else to
be my thing. So, and I will say, if there's
any twelve year olds looking for something to be their
thing when they're wearing a back brace, I wouldn't recommen
and books. It's not much cooler. Books in the opo

(12:05):
are not going to make you more popular at school.
I don't know what I was thinking, you know, but
but I was really into trying to I mean it's
I was really into it. That's like why Lolita podcast exists.
I was really into like trying to read books that
were a little out of my depth, but I just
wanted to feel like I could read a big old book. Sure,

(12:26):
so I read Jane Austen novels and I sort of
understood them. And there are also so many this like
this Pride and Prejudice came out right around the time
I would have been trying to read it by myself,
to the point that I have a really nice memory
with my dad around this movie because this movie came
out when I was in like sixth or seventh grade,

(12:48):
and it was not how fun it was. Oh, I
guess it was very financially successful. It made one hundred
and twenty one million dollars, well.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Off of a twenty eight million dollar budget. Yeah, that's
really good.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
But uh, it wasn't playing in my area at like
the big amc Like, it wasn't playing at the big theaters.
You had to like drive forty five minutes to like
an independent movie theater to go see it. And I
really wanted to see it, and I thought my dad
was like, oh, I'll take you to like the local
movie theater and we'll go. And then we looked it
up and it wasn't playing, and originally he was like, sorry,

(13:21):
I guess you'll just have to wait for it to
come out on DVD. And I was like okay, And
then the next day he like woke me up and
he was like, I've changed my mind. We're gonna drive
forty five minutes to see the movie, and so he like,
I know, it was really nice. We went to this
I need to remember what the name of it was
in case any of the matrons live in Hangham, Massachusetts.

(13:43):
But it was like this old. I'd never been to
a movie theater like it before. It was like this.
It wasn't like a multiplex cinema. It had like a
balcony and I remember like, I'd never seen a movie
theater with a balcony. And it was old and it
was Pride and Prejudice, and Pride and Prejudice is old,
and it it was like one of my favorite memory.
I've like wrote about it in my journal. Its like

(14:04):
top moments of two thousand and five, going to Fride
and Prejudice with Dad sat in balcony like it was.
It's just such a lovely memory. And I loved the movie.
I used to own it on DVD when I was
a kid, but I haven't seen it in a long time,
like paying attention, and I was so relieved because nothing

(14:27):
that you saw when you were twelve holds up. And
I really loved watching this movie and I feel like
I appreciated it even more because now I know a
lot more about the filmmakers and the actors, and I
can appreciate like the economy of storyteller, Like that's what
I say, Yeah, this like but on all fronts, like
the screenplay trims out characters that you don't like Miss

(14:51):
like I kind of, and I really like the characters
that they choose to scale back to, Like Miss Bingley
is scaled way back from in the book where you
get the idea where yeah, she's a snob, that's kind
of all you need to know. She's a snob and
she's and she's finagling and bageling the couples, right, and
that's all you need to know. Yeah, the aunt and
uncle they're nice, that's all you need to know. Really, Wickham,

(15:13):
he's a snake. That's all you need to know. You
don't need to spend all this time with Wickham. And
then on top of that, I kind of forgot how
much I really loved Joe Wright movies when I was
like a teenager, because like Kia Knightley was his muse.
She was in Anna Karanaa, which was okay, but like
a teammate atonement. This movie confirmed to me that I'm

(15:36):
gonna go see Sierra.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm going to it.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
I'm gonna I was gonna see it before, but now
I'm super gonna see it because he like he in
the in the DP, like they tell so much about
the characters in just like one shot, like all the
shots of the house where you get to know the
characters in like one line of dialect, or like the
shots of the parties where you like see these incredibly
choreographed shots where it's like you learn about ten characters

(16:03):
in the course of one shot, and it's just like beautiful.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And that's cinema. As per Richard gear In, Chicago, and
that's Chicago, and that's cinema.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
It's genuinely so good. And then the fact that it's
like they cut out like I feel like every time
and we talk about adaptations, it's about oh, and then
they really inflated this random guy character from the book
and now he's like a main character. But this movie
does the opposite. It scales back random guys and gives
you more sisters. It's still I would say.

Speaker 5 (16:36):
Gives you too much dad, But and I think that
that is like I think my only major criticism of
the movie is I feel like, based on what I
was picking up from the book and then I like
kind of verified this in a couple of essays, the
Bennett parents are well intentioned, they love their children.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
But they're not amazing parents. They're very flawed parents, sure,
and I feel like this movie makes that clear. But
it gives Donald Sutherland Daddy a redemption arc at the end,
and you're still supposed to think that the mom is
like pretty silly and pretty like yeah, And I feel

(17:19):
like in the book that arc, that arc didn't happen
because you get that whole Donald Sutherland speech where he
were and I mean, I was crying because it was
really nice. But you know that doesn't happen in the book.
He doesn't go like, I love my daughter so much
and whatever you want is the right thing.

Speaker 6 (17:36):
Go off, queen, Like there's that a whole scene, right,
which I wouldn't have minded if Missus Bennett got a
similar kind of two thousand and five treatment. But I
felt like Donald Sutherland daddy got this, like got this
little this little flourish at.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
The end that he doesn't get in the book. And
it's like, well, do both or do none?

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Right? I definitely have some thoughts about the parents and
their relationship to each other and their relationship to their daughters. Yeah,
so we can we'll get into.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
But Jenna Malone is in this movie Sprinkling of Americans
Sprinkling because I was like, jennam alone, Donald's otherland, Canadian,
Jenna alone American?

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Right, Well that thing happened where I was like, wait,
has Jenna Malone secretly been English this whole time? And
we just didn't know? But she just does a convincing
English accent, So good for her.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
I think the first time I watched this movie, I
did not know who Carrie Mulligan or Rosamund Pike were.
I think I knew who Jennam Malone was because she
was a child star who was in this movie called
Stepmom starring Susan Sara.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I've seen it. I think I think
early I know about it. Who knows. My brain is
full of too many movies. I don't know what I've
seen and what I haven't.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
So I like knew who she but like most of
the everyone in this movie is famous, like.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Everyone except for Mary, although maybe I'll bite my tongue.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
She was on West World. Oh she was on West World.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Okay, yeah, she's not as famous. I have a whole
like justice for Mary Bennett segment of my notes.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
But I see I liked because I felt like and
maybe and again, books are long, and I will be
the first to admit that between Mary, Kitty and Lydia
like basically the sisters who aren't Jane and Elizabeth, sometimes
I'd be like, wait, which one is which personality? Like
it's kind of easy to lose track. But I felt

(19:37):
like Mary was very visually distinct in the movie. I
wish that she had more Yes, I wish we just
knew what happened to her. But that's also kind of like,
does Jane Austen tell us what happens to Mary? No?

Speaker 2 (19:49):
And I think that the book cares less about the
Mary character than the movie does.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
What I loved about movie Mary is they kind of
like style it Stickley speaking in two thousand and five terms.
They kind of like hot topiced her. They were like,
she's gone with our goth she's literally because she's kind
of she reminds me of Lydia from Beetlejuice.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Well, there's a scene where they're all at the Bingley
estate and it's Missus Bennett and then the three youngest
daughters all on a couch together, and the and Missus
Bennett and Kitty and Lydia are all wearing pastels, you know,
a lavender of pink, a light green. And then Mary's God,
she's like in black and dark browns.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
I love her.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
She's the goth sister.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
And I also loved that, Like I don't know, like
I just all of the characters in the book, but
like especially in them. I've just been like triply impressed
with how it's done in the movie because it's like
less time and less baggage, but you still get I
feel like an even clearer idea of who the characters are.
I like that. It's like, even though Mary like comes
off as very like standoffish and solemn and like alone

(21:00):
her and she literally is like playing the piano all
the time. I'm like, oh my god, hot topic, sister,
but she also like you get to see her express emotion.
Like she there's that moment in one of those amazing
shots where she like starts crying and Donald Sutherland, because
he's like not an emotionally intelligent dad, It's like, oh no,

(21:22):
I made my daughter cry And this all happens in
the background of a shot. It's like so amazing. I
love this movie.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, we check in on her, and yeah, to certain people,
she might seem you know, standoffish or aloof or whatever.
But it's just because like she's socially awkward. She's misunderstood,
much like mister Darcy, I guess, except that he's also
an asshole.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Mister I mean, mister Darcy. Does he display growth? Yes?
Does he display enough growth that I would have married him?
In that moment, I want to say no. I want
to say no, right, but also I want Elizabeth to
be so happy it makes me cry. Like I love
It's it's I feel like Elizabeth Bennett and like Joe March,

(22:12):
like they're just like just characters that you're just like, Okay,
I don't necessarily agree. I mean, I I like mister
Darcy better than random guy that Joe Joe March ends
up with random professor.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, but but you know you're like, Okay, maybe I
wouldn't have done the same thing, but you seem happy,
and you've been through so much, and I want you
to be happy. I just want Elizabeth Bennett to be happy, busy.
Oh my god, she loves she loves her tall, awkward bangs. Husband.
The bangs are a lot. The bangs are a lot.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Wait on mister Darcy.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
On mister Darcy. Yeah, his hair, his hair.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
His head, his head.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
It's it makes me laugh because it is like there
are I feel like for the most part, I mean, Joe,
that's kind of like Joe Wright's thing. He creates these
very engrossing, visually appealing period pieces. But you can still
I feel like the one tell that it's two thousand
and five or the two tells is that Kuran Nightley
is the lead and mister Darcy's hair is flat ironed

(23:16):
the whole movie. What is that? Why is his hair
is straightened into bangs the way that a hot topic
sister would do. I mean maybe that was also happening
during the regency era, but I was like, this is
what scene boys were doing at my middle school. Why
is why' is sister Darcy doing it?

Speaker 2 (23:34):
I mean, some people's hair just lays like that.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
I don't know, I don't know. We'll have to take
it up with mcfaddyen. But okay, what's your history with
Pride and Prejudice?

Speaker 2 (23:44):
I had seen it right around when it came out,
just that one time, didn't ever read the book, did
watch Bridget Jones's diary, and I had forgotten that it
is a very loose adaptation of Pride Prejudice. So when
I started reading the book, I was like, And then
to clarify that I have a copy of the book,

(24:07):
I listened to the Rosamund Pike. Basically I let her
read it to me as I read along in the book,
which is how I'm gonna read books from now on.
Like I never I like, don't know why, I never thought,
oh my God, to do that before?

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Please?

Speaker 2 (24:21):
And then like, but it's so much easier.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
You use the library a lot, get audiobooks from the library.
That's literally how I do. Like, I wouldn't be able
to do any research if I couldn't listen to audiobooks. Period.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking before. So
that's how I'm gonna I'm just gonna like read along
as some person reads at me. Also, So anyway, that's
how I consumed the book. And then as I as
I was consuming it, I was like, oh, wait a minute,
this sounds this seems very familiar and sort of like
what happens in Bridget Jones's diary. And then I was like, right,

(24:54):
that is an adaptation of that. Okay, So I had
seen the movie only once. I remembered two scenes from
it and nothing else. I remember the scene where Darcy
and Bingley are approaching the house for the first time.
A frenzy ensues because they're like, oh my god, we
have to make ourselves look presentable, and then they like

(25:16):
pinch their cheeks a little bit to like, yeah, basically
like give themselves some rouge. I distinctly remember that. And
then the other scene I remember, which is one of
my favorite scenes in the movie, and this also happens
in the book where mister Collins has proposed to Elizabeth.
She has said no, Missus Bennett is like, Lizzie, what

(25:36):
the hell are you doing? You gotta say yes to
this guy. I will never speak to you again if
you don't marry him. And then mister Bennett is like, well,
that's what your mom says. She'll never see you again
if you don't marry him, and I'll never see you
again if you do. And I was like, Bam, I.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Mean cool, it's a good moment. And it's like that's
straight from the book baby, Like mm hmm, that's a
really effectively done scene. And yeah, I love Lizzie God.
I just like and then, especially like with the historical
context of like just how I don't know whatever, we'll

(26:11):
talk about like women in general, I mean, and I
love that this movie focuses on relationships between women quite
a bit. Yeah, quite a bit. I mean, the book
obviously does as well, but it also kind of goes
off on these tangents. I feel like there's like I
was getting so sick of Wickham because it's like you
find out he's a snake and then he's just still
around and you're like, who cares, We're done with him,

(26:34):
he's a scammer. But the fact that it's like it's
hard to reject anybody, but also like it wasn't just
a rejection she was doing. It was like there were
ties to her future, and there's ties to her like
security physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially, financially, her family is

(26:58):
all tied up in it as well, Like the stakes
were so high, but she acted to her values. She's like,
I'm not gonna marry this fucking asshole who I Also,
I think that they added and I thought this was
like a smart choice. I'm pretty sure in the book,
does mister Collins say like, oh, I want to marry

(27:18):
Jane and then they're like, oh, you can't, but you
can marry Lizy. And then he's like, oh, okay, does
he say that? I mean, I feel like he definitely
like proposes to her. She says no, but I didn't
think that there was a moment where he was like,
Jane's my pick and they're like, sorry.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well, here's the thing about books is that I don't
remember them, even though I read this one a week ago,
So I have no fucking idea.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
I'm pretty sure, I mean, and feel free and briden
prejudice had feel free to sound off in the comments,
but I'm pretty sure that that doesn't happen. But again,
it's like it's that's a really effective story point for
the movie to make it clear that it's like, yeah,
she should not marry this fucking guy.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah he sucks. Mm hmm. Should I do the recap?

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah? Okay, I love this story me too.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Okay. We are in the late eighteenth century, which is
a slight deviation from the book because the book takes
place I think in like eighteen twelve.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, like at the time it was like the book
was released or like, right, this is a modern book.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Eighteen thirteen something when it came out is when it
was published. Yeah, the movie, and this is like based
on some choices from Joe Wright, the director. He said
it back, I want to say, like maybe twenty or
thirty years so it's like late seventeen hundred's rural England.
We meet Elizabeth Bennett that's Karen Knightley of course, and

(28:56):
her family, her elder sister Jane that's Rosamond, and her
younger sister's kitty, Carrie. Mulligan, Lydia is Jennam alone and
Mary who I didn't write down that actor because I'm
a rude bit.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Wow, I love her. You're like, she's the only one
who's not famous.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Justice for Mary.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
I don't know what her name is.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
I don't recognize her.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Riley, thank you so much. She was in West World. Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Anyways, so they are all eves dropping on their mother,
Missus Bennett played by Brenda Blethin, telling their father, mister
Bennett played by Donald Sutherland.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Mister Bennett, she's the most British person that's ever lived.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yes, so she's telling her husband, her husband that a
rich young man and mister Bingley, mister Bingley has bought
a nearby estate and also he's single, and they're all
anticipating that one of the Bennett girls will marry mister Bingley,

(30:02):
who will be coming to a ball that's being thrown.
I don't know the following evening or sometime soon.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
I will say, of all the men in the story,
if I had to get married to one of them,
one hundred percent, mister Bingley, what a sweetie, so sweetye,
a pushover, not the maybe not the brightest crayon in
the box, but like, but what a sweetie. The way
he looks at Jane, He's like, I love her so much.

(30:30):
But then mister Darcy's like, don't marry her, and he's
like okay, Like you're like, okay, come on.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
The part where he's like, I'm not a very good reader.
I can read, and I'm not suggesting you can't read.
Outside He's so cute.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
I loved mister Bingley. Also, he kind of disappeared too.
I don't know what happened to him. Oh my gosh, wait,
this is weat Sorry, I'm just on his Wikipedia page.
The actor Simon Woods. Hmm. So he's a writer now,
but he he dated Rosamond Pike for two thousand to
two thousand and two, so not when this came out.
Oh yes. And then now he's married to a man

(31:06):
named Christopher Bailey who is like a fashion ceo. Okay,
and he has two daughters and now he writes plays.
But I was like, that's so bizarre that, like he
dated Rosamund Pike and then they played lovers like three
years after they broke up.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Love that they're.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Still cute together. I love mister Bingley. Yeah, he's so
I would have such a crush on mister Bingley. You're like,
it's okay, I believe you can read.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Right, Okay. So at the ball, everyone is dancing, they're
having a merry time. Then this mister Bingley shows up
along with his sister Caroline and his friend mister Darcy.
That's Matthew mcfadian. Is that how you say it? Fadien
Fati mcfadian, who is very rich, even richer than Bingley,

(31:59):
and who Elizabeth thinks looks miserable and unpleasant, and he does,
and he does. He is thought to be too proud
and prejudiced.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
He's so emo. He's like everyone's like hi, mister Jarcy.
He's like l no, No, I'm like, dude, you're twenty eight,
Like he can you just say hello?

Speaker 6 (32:22):
Right?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
But then I'm like, maybe he's got social anxiety. Maybe
he's got.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Well he says he has social anxiety, right, yeah, yeah,
I mean obviously not a discussion back then, but like
he but I feel like it's implied that it's like
he has social anxiety and then deals with it by
acting like he's too good for everyone, and that's like
his cope. Because there's that scene where it's like he
basically tells Elizabeth like I have a hard time talking

(32:50):
to new people, right, and then she's kind of like, fuck,
you leave me alone, And I'm like, well, given the
fat how he's treated her, I get it. But also
he is yeah, he like totally cops to being socially
anxious for sure.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, But then I'm like, is he neurodivergent? Possibly? We
don't know. They didn't understand these things back then, right,
maybe something's going on as someone who especially like earlier
in my life, people would make snap judgments about me
because I was like socially anxious or uncomfortable, and I
was like, sure, no, I'm actually nice. So I just

(33:25):
found all that relatable. But then also like he insults
her as he's proposing to her, So I'm like, actually,
maybe he's an asshole.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
But also like many things, and I feel like that's
a lot of the take like we can't say obviously,
but like in this story, I feel like the fact
that we can even have that conversation about a two
hundred year old story is really cool because this is
a story where two things can be true all the time,
where it's like, yes, mister Darcy obviously has a level

(33:54):
of social anxiety that he admits to in the book
and the movie, but he also acts behind people's backs
and is a total jerk in ways that is completely
unrelated to his social anxiety and has everything to do
with his like class bullshit. So this is just like,
I don't know, I just think it's really cool that

(34:15):
it's like we can have that discussion and then also
be like but there were also moments in this story
where he was straight up being an elitist jerk, which
he later admitted and was like, and now I have
to make things right because growth. Oh, mister Darcy, Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
So he shows up at the ball and he and
Elizabeth share a look, but then Elizabeth overhears mister Darcy
say about her that she's tolerable but not pretty enough
to tempt him, which then she uses as ammunition in
a little like mic drop comment to him later on.
This is the beginning of the like will they won't

(34:57):
they romantic tension between them.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
I love that shot, where like after Lizzie, which is
this is like most of her mic dropped moments, not all,
but like a lot of them are added in for
the movie, and so she kind of Mic drops him,
she repeats back the thing that she overheard him saying
about her, and then there's like this long shot of
her walking away and you almost like I just almost
wanted like a music cue there of like ahh may moment,

(35:24):
like she's like strutting away, like there's music playing, but
it's like it's still a fucking harpist chord.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Right right. I did find those moments very cathartic.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
They're fun, yeah, And I feel like it didn't like
in the way that some when some older stories have
like those like modern flourishes added, they really stick out
because you're like, this doesn't feel consistent. But like with Lizzie,
that's so who she is in the book, that like
adding those moments feels very consistent with who.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
She is, right, yes, Okay. So then meanwhile, Elizabeth's sister
j and mister Bingley seemed to be taking a liking
to each other. Then Jane is invited to dine at
mister Bingley's estate, where she has to stay for a
few days after developing a cold on the way there,
which missus Bennett basically orchestrates.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
I was like, that's evil, genius. She's like, no, you
have to ride a horse, so you get sick, so
you fall in love. You're like, mom, that's evil.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Which mister Bennett, He's like, your skills for matchmaking are
a cult.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Missus Bennett. I mean, there's a lot to be said
about her. I know, we'll get to it, but there
are very few moments in the story where you get
to be like, all right, I guess she pulled that
one off, and like that was one of the few
moments where it's unconventional what she does. But does it
not work out for the best, you know? And then
she's like, no one dies of a cult. That's fine.

(36:54):
You're like Jesus.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Right, right. So Elizabeth also goes to the estate to
look after Jane while she's ill, and there she and
mister Darcy interact. They are mostly nagging each other and
they seem to hate each other, but also they seem
to secretly love each other.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Maybe mister Darcy keeps smirking and you're just like, he
just keeps looking at her, like he ha ha ha.
I'm like, do you know you love her yet?

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Do you?

Speaker 3 (37:26):
He does? He does, He totally does.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Because like when she leaves, he like helps her into
the carriage and like there's you know, just a spark
when they touch hands. It's a whole thing.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
So then Elizabeth and Jane return home, and when they do,
the Bennetts get news of a cousin, mister Collins, coming
to visit. He is to inherit their estate after mister
Bennett dies, since they only had daughters and women can't
own property during this time, or there are certain circumstances

(38:00):
in which you can, maybe, but it doesn't apply to
them them. I don't really understand.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
I honestly, we didn't do. I mean, we already read
a book, so don't yell at us like I appreciate
how like Jane Austen, she doesn't like Russian novel style layout,
like and here are the rules for forty pages of
like what this actually meant? Because it seems like there
are circumstances in which women can own property, but this
isn't one of them, right for whatever reason. All you

(38:27):
need to know is, like this is not one of
Like mister Collins is getting it right for reason.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
For reasons because Lady Catherine de Bergh owns her estate,
I think, but she's girl boss.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
But maybe that's because all the men died like it's possible, Yeah,
because she's rich. It could because like all the guys
who used to own it died Like we just don't know,
simply don't know. But either way, the Bennett's sisters are
shit out of luck and they have to give it
to their rude cousin.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yes, and mister Collins intends on marrying one of the
Bennett daughters because cousins be marrying each other in the
olden dates, not in this case, thank goodness. Elizabeth seems
like the best option for him. Meanwhile, the military is
stationed in town and a lieutenant or a lieutenant Wickham

(39:17):
also takes a liking to Elizabeth. They have some fun
banter about ribbons.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
We learn that Wickham has an unpleasant history with mister Darcy,
where Wickham tells Elizabeth that he and mister Darcy grew
up together, that Darcy denied an inheritance that was promised
to him because Darcy was jealous that his father loved
Wickham more than his own son.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Two things. This is such a I think, like on
Jane Austen's part, such a like insightful dynamic that I
feel like you don't see very often of like but
something that like I've definitely experienced. They feel like it's
a pretty common experience of like being so taken in
by a very charismatic person who's talking shit that it

(40:02):
isn't until you are like forced to take a step
out of their like charisma to be like, wait a second,
this person's full of shit, Like right, it's so and
like Wickham is such a classic example of that. Also,
my dad when we saw that movie, I got mad
at him in the theater because he made fun of

(40:25):
that ribbon scene in the theater and I got really
embarrassed because he was like joking about how they were,
like there's that shot where like Karen Knightley is like
peeking from behind the ribbons and he's like, oh, come hither,
but don't, but come hither but don't.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
And I was like, Dad, stop, Mike, don't make fun.
Karen Knightley's awesome, Okay. So Wickham tells Elizabeth this, So
now Elizabeth thinks that mister Darcy is even more awful
than she thought he was before. Then the Bennett Ladies
go to another ball at mister Bingley's estate, where Elizabeth

(41:06):
hopes to see mister Wickham, but he is nowhere to
be found. Who is there is the dreadful mister Collins,
who wants to dance with Elizabeth, and so does mister Darcy.
So they dance and she confronts him about being awful
and he's like, you don't even know me.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
I love them.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
A short time later, mister Collins proposes to Elizabeth, which
she force fully declines, and this is the scene where
her mother is like, I'll never talk to you again
if you don't accept his proposal, and her father is like,
I'll never talk to you again if you do.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Another great Across the boyd Lizzie scene where and I
feel like this is like a feminist hero moment that's
built into the book where you know, like there's this
dynamic at this time where some times you would get
denied once and it just meant, oh, I have to
try hard, or I have to keep pushing, pushing, pushing
no means yes, but also like this is a game,

(42:08):
this is a dance and Lizzie in the book, and
then also I thought Curinate is so good in that scene.
She's like I'm not fucking around, Like yeah, no, I
don't want to marry you. I would be miserable. You
would be miserable, Like I'm not doing it, and don't
tell me that no means yes, and don't not take
me seriously. I just I love that scene.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
There are some things that I'm realizing upon like reading
the book that like, and I mean, who knows when
the mentality started of I think no actually means yes
and if you say no, you're just being coy and
flirty and playing hard to get. But I was surprised
that something that I perceive as a modern bit of

(42:54):
misogyny is not just a modern thing and it was
happening for two.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Hundred years ago, right right, and like Lizzie, and it's
like it's I CA have to keep reminding myself as
I'm like listening to the book of like that's an
impressive thing to do right now. And the fact that
Lizzy was doing it in eighteen twelve when it was like,
I mean, just like the decision is like fifty times
as big and she still stands her ground and is like, no,

(43:23):
I said I don't want to marry you. I don't
want to marry you, right, and then she has to
do that a second time. Did mister Darcy I was like,
oh god, I just love Lizzie so much. I love her.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
She's an icon.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
That scene in the Rain, We'll get there, but that
scene in the rain, oh the music, Oh yeah, that
scene is though. That's what stuck with me. The first
time I saw the movie was like, the first rejection
scene is so good.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, I love it. So mister Bingley and mister Darcy
then leave I think mister Bingley's estate without mister Bingley
proposing to Jane, which comes as a surprise to everyone,
and Elizabeth thinks that mister Bingley's sister, Caroline is trying
to persuade him to not marry her and to I

(44:16):
think marry mister Darcy's sister instead. Is that the thing?

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yeah, yeah, Like they're this this whole like the Bingley
Darcy thing. It seems like, oh, we're gonna marry each
other's sisters. Is this quote unquote smartest thing to do
to keep rich people with rich people? Because miss miss
Bingley is you know, I mean, this feels like an
aggressive statement, but she's throwing herself at mister Darcy and clearly,

(44:42):
I mean at the beginning of the movie and the book,
you're like, oh, they kind of deserve each other. They're
both fucking miserable people who have all these prejudice, who
have all these like rude, evil class.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
All these prides and prejudices.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
I was gonna, yeah, like they have all these I'm like,
you know what, fine, get married, miserable and rich, see
if I care, right, But then mister Darcy grows and
then the book Miss Bingley, it's like implied in the
space of two sentences, eventually grows a little bit at
the end.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I forgot about that part too.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Anyway, Yeah, they're like and eventually she kind of grew
up and that was nice. You're like, all right, good
for her.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
So yeah, Elizabeth's friend Charlotte, who we've seen in the
movie before, but she is just not showing up in
my recap.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I love her.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Charlotte ends up marrying mister Collins and Elizabeth goes to
visit them, where Elizabeth meets Lady Catherine de Bergh aka
Dame Judy.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Dench oh and she is making a meal of her
three scenes.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
So the director Joe Wright convinced Judy Dench to play
this character by writing her a letter that said, quote,
I love it when you play a bitch, please come
and be a bitch for me. End of letter, and
Judi Dench was like, sold, I'm there.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
I love that. That makes me so happy. Oh yeah,
I'm smiling. I'm smiling.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
That rocks. So Elizabeth meets Lady Catherine de Bergh as
well as her daughter and her nephew who is guess who,
mister Darcy. Oh, and we get to know Lady Catherine
a little bit. She is very emphasis on the prejudice
part of pride and prejudice because she's extremely rich and

(46:31):
elitist and classist.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah, they wanted her to play a bit Caitlyn, and
she did, and.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
She did it. So then mister Darcy and Elizabeth have
a few awkward encounters. Again, it's clear that he loves her,
and he seems to want to tell her something or
maybe ask her something. But then she finds out that
he quote unquote saved his friend mister Bingley from getting
married to the wrong person because she came from an

(46:58):
unsuitable family. And he is talking about mister Bingley not
proposing to Jane and the Bennett family being unsuitable. So
now Elizabeth hates mister Darcy even more. But then Darcy
professes his love for Elizabeth, despite his better judgment, despite
his family's expectations, and rain the rain. It's happening in

(47:25):
the rain.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
It's a big deal, and it's happening despite his family's expectations,
despite the inferiority of her birth, despite his rank and circumstance.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
He asks her to marry him, and she's like, what
the hell? What about how you separated my sister from
the man she loves. What about how you think I'm
gross and poor and that my family is rude and improper?
What about how you ruin mister Wickham's life. I love Lizzie.

(47:56):
And he's like, well, yes, some of that is true,
except some of it isn't and you don't know what
you're talking about. Bye, and then he leaves.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
He literally is like Facebook two thousand and eight. It's complicated,
like he's it's uh, Lizzy is doing things that I
can't do in relationships right now, like she is. Just
that scene is so satisfied, like and it's so well
acted between both of them because you can you can

(48:25):
see mister Darcy go in with his pride and pride,
I mean he goes in vulnerable to begin with, but
then when he's shot down like McFadyen, I mean, he's
killing it, like he's so he's like surprised, and then
he's like so hurt because he really loves her, but
she's right, and like, how dare he come at her? Like, hey,

(48:48):
I've it, you know, against all odds, I want to
marry you. And she's like, well fuck you, Like I'm
I'm awesome, Like I just.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
I love her, she's great.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
That scene fucked me up, Oh my god. And the
fact that like I feel like that's just Joe Wright
magic where he's like, and we're gonna just gonna put
it in the rain just for because I don't I mean,
I don't remember if that's I think that scene was
inside Yeah, yeah, you're sure, Oh put it in the
fucking rain. And then at the end of that scene,
you're like, are they gonna kiss? Right?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
They like kind of move there, they like move toward
each other as if to be like, well, I know
we just screamed at each other, but should we kiss?

Speaker 3 (49:32):
But then they don't. They don't know, and they, i mean,
they really make you wait for the kiss. The way
that this movie ends is not how the book ends, right.
The way that this movie ends. You know, this movie
came out almost seventeen years ago, and I think about it,
m miss Dascy. Oh anyways, sorry. Continue.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
So he leaves after getting his proposal rejected, and shortly
thereafter he gives Elizabeth a letter in which Darcy he
explains that Wickham is actually a degenerate gambler, and Darcy
only did what he did with Bingley and Jane because
he thought he was looking out for a friend, because
he perceived Jane to be indifferent towards Bingley, because no

(50:15):
one understands who anyone actually is, because people just make
snack judgments in this movie, in this book.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
No, And he was so like and again you can
see it on his face. When Elizabeth's like she's shy.
Yeah that it cuts back to Darcy and he's like
like oh, because you can see him register like, oh
I'm shy. Oh I shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I should have seen this, I should have understood.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Oh I intimately understand what she was doing, and yet
I judged her anyways, like oh this it's a great story.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah, okay, So now Elizabeth has all these second thoughts,
maybe Darcy is not that bad of a guy. After all,
and then her sister Jane comes back home from London.
Her sister Lydia goes to Brighton with the Forster family,
who I guess are people that we're supposed to know
who they are.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
I don't think we need I think I think that
this movie is just like they're like, she's away, Yeah, yeah,
she's away.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
So then Elizabeth goes with her aunt and uncle to
Darcy's estate because it's open to visitors, which is wild
to me.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
I know, it's like rich people houses are literally just museums.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
But I get.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
I mean, I guess that's true if some places still,
but I feel like the rich people don't actually live
there anymore, Like they wouldn't just be like, oh, whoops,
I didn't realize you were hanging today.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
They must be so rich in their house, so big
that they can just have an entirely separate part of
their house where they actually live in, and then another
part where it's like, yeah, you can come and look
at my fancy couch and statues. Fine.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
That was one of my favorite shots in the whole movie, though,
when when Elizabeth, I mean spoiler, you're about to hit
it in the recap where she's like walking around, walking around,
and then it turns out Darcy is there, and then
there's like this Hitchcock zoom on her where she's like ooh,
and it like zooms in on her, and then she
runs away. And I just love how many different sides

(52:13):
of Lizzy's personality you see, because I feel like so
often with these like feminist hero characters, which Lizzy Bennett
is like in the fucking Mount Rushmore of feminist hero characters,
but you also get to see these like moments where
she's like vulnerable and she's kind of like that whole
sequence in the book. And then also I feel like

(52:34):
it kind of telegraphs clearly in the movie, like yes,
she's like gonna stick to her guns no matter what.
Her values are very clear and very strong. But also
she's like, I don't know. I like that she like
still has like an imagination and is like, but what
if what would it what would it be like if
I like lived here? And right entertains the thought and

(52:55):
you get like that intimate moment of someone alone that
I feel like with most like feminist characters and most heroes,
you only see the side of them that is like
very like, these are my values and I don't.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
I don't need no love and support in my life.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Right right, that's like I'm literally a superhero. And it's
like Lizzy Bennett could be by herself and sustain and
be fine, and we know that, but it's also it's
also I don't know, just like it's so cool and
refreshing to see I mean, fucking two hundred year old story,
but like to see her have those like moments alone

(53:36):
of like, well, what would it be Like It's not
like she's saying I'm going to do this, but just
to see her kind of like process and consider what
that life would be like for her and then to
be taken off guard by him and then be like
ool and like just have a moment of like, oh shit,
I'm sorry, I didn't I thought your house was a museum.
And so like I love that scene where she's she

(54:00):
is just like fully panicking and it's like I just
didn't think you would be at your house and he's like,
well house, So like it's I just love it.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, that's a great scene. They're both so awkward. Okay,
So yeah, we're about to get there where Elizabeth goes
to Darcy's estate and Darcy doesn't appear to be there,
or she doesn't think he's there, but he's returned a
day early from where he was and she runs into
him and it's really awkward, but they seem to be
getting along a little bit better than usual, or at
least they're just like, you know, propriety is getting the

(54:33):
better of them.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
He's so happy to see her, Yes, he's so happy
to see her. He's like, wait a second, you're at
my freaking house.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
And he's being like, so are you staying nearby? And
she's like, yes, I'm at this exact tavern or whatever,
and he's like cool, cool, cool, good to know. And
then he does show up there later, but just to
invite Elizabeth and her aunt uncle to dinner the next day.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
I didn't feel like of I mean, there are things
to talk about with the relationship, but I didn't ever
feel like he was like stockery creepy, right he was.
I feel like he was very respectful and when she
set boundaries, he would like really take the note to
the point where it's like at the end he's like,
if you say no, I'll walk away right, Oh you'll

(55:20):
never see me again. Yeah, no worries like, of all
the men in the story, I feel like Darcy has
the best understanding of boundaries because Collins is like, yeah, sure, no, right,
of course you would have married me.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Yeah no means yes actually yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Right, And Darcy's like, he's like almost extreme. He's like,
I can't be your friend. There's no in between. You
will never see me again and it will.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Be like I died, you know, right, right right, yeah, okay,
So he introduces Elizabeth to his sister Georgiana, but then
Elizabeth receives a letter from Jane saying that their sister
Lydia has run off with mister Wickham, that son of
a gun.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Lydia. Yeah, Lydia drives me up a wall, but also
she's young. I feel, Okay, this is something that every
time there is like a parenting issue brought up with
the Bennetts. And I don't mean to like it's hard.
I mean and it speaks to the strength of the
story that this is hard, because everyone in this story

(56:28):
is very complicated and has like multiple things going on.
But I do feel like, you know, missus Bennett is
so made to look so silly by the story, and
she is like not kind to her children, I don't
mean to say that she's a perfect mother in disguise,
like she's not. But I feel like a lot of
where her anxiety comes from, or where some of her

(56:48):
anxiety comes from, is anytime people talk about like, oh,
the Bennett sisters are being reared so poorly, the onus
is put very much on her versus mister Bennett, and
so like when Lydia runs off, I feel like missus
Bennett always has an outsized reaction to when one of
the daughters is being harshly judged. But I do feel

(57:10):
like that's also connected to when whenever you hear like
one of the richer characters, especially like Lady Catherine is
the person who does that the most in that really
aggressive dinner conversation. Mister Bennett doesn't even come up in
those conversations. It's like, oh, your mother fucked up, like
your mother failed, and like that's where it's not like

(57:32):
it's not conceivable in this class at this time that
it's like, if you have five daughters, they're all going
to be very different, which clearly Jane Austen knows because
she had wrote five daughters, and she wrote them to
all have very different personalities. But like in the eyes
of this like class and this story, it's like, oh,

(57:52):
if any daughter does anything wrong, it's like a failure
of the mother. And so it's like missus Bennett very
much has a victim complex, and I feel like she
doesn't take accountability for when she does fuck up. But
also I was trying to like stay cognizant of the
fact that like mister Bennett is so dismissive of stuff

(58:13):
in a lot of cases. But it's also like because
he doesn't carry the blame for most of it like
his wife does.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Right, Yeah, I have complicated feelings about missus Bennett in particular. Well,
I guess both parents, but like, sure, she is such
a product of her environment. Yeah, totally, and again which
is a like such a rigid patriarchal structure, and which
gets commented on here and there in the movie, Like
there's a scene where she's you know, talking about one

(58:42):
of I forget which one, but it's like one of
the daughters getting married, and Elizabeth is like, is that
all you think about or is that all you talk about,
like us getting married? And she's like, well, when you
have five daughters, like come back to me. And then
you'll understand, like you'll you'll understand because of the circumstances
of like back in this time, women needed, like literally

(59:03):
needed a marriage in most cases to secure any stability
in their life financially or else because because again, women
were considered property. They couldn't own anything, like, they had
no opportunities for making their own way in the world
because of how few rights women had back then. So

(59:24):
that's like where her concern comes from.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
But then it's also like at the expense of her
daughter's personalities and desires and wants, and so it's like, yeah,
it's it's so uh, like the story is so good.
It's so complicated because you can like put yourself in
her head and be like, I understand why she's doing
what she's doing, but like, obviously this is not the
way to do it. But then also I don't think

(59:48):
that she I have like more issues with mister Bennett
than I was expecting to, because I also don't think
that like mister Bennett is so disinterested in how his
wife is processing things where he kind of like he
loves her, but he like tolerates her like a joke, right,
Like he's he's like, oh, you do this, this is you,

(01:00:09):
and it's like, but do you ever think of like
like like you were saying, she's such a product of
her environment, and I feel like she like if they
were working more as a team, then she may not
be so you know, inclined to be pushy with her
kids because it's like, well, if they were working as
a as a team, then you know, like unfortunately, because

(01:00:32):
of the gender dynamics at this time, mister Bennett could
act in his daughter's best interest. And like they just
act like it's a rough marriage. I mean, I just
get the feeling that that's a rough marriage. And it's
like it's not. It's not loveless. Marriage is complicated. Relationships
are complicated. Like it's not like I do believe that
they love each other, they care about each other, but

(01:00:53):
their dynamic is like not beneficial to their kids at all.
And I think that mister Bennett is like like I
feel like negligent is maybe an overstatement, but like he's
just just dismissed a lot. He's checked out. Yeah, like
he's like, oh I'm I'm reading, so I can't I
can't think about anyone's feelings. And it's like, well, that

(01:01:14):
puts a lot on your wife. And also that means
that like that not only puts a lot on your wife,
it also you know, because of how the society is structured,
if things don't work out, he's not going to bear
the brunt of the criticism like she will. And so
I feel like it's inconsiderate of him to his spouse

(01:01:35):
to be so checked out because it's like she's gonna
have to take the shit. And then he's also like, oh,
you're so silly, You're so like and she is, but
like I feel like she's like it's it's a combination.
But like I feel like part of the reason why
she acts so silly, quote unquote is because she's acting alone,

(01:01:58):
Like she's acting basically like a single parent right to
help her kids out, and like it's coming from this
place of anxiety and in partially a selfish way for
sure of like, what's going to happen to our family
if this fucking random guy who is obsessed with Judy
Dench can just take our property at any time? And

(01:02:19):
I feel like that is like referenced in the movie
and the book, but like it's implied that Collins can
just take the house whenever he wants, and so I
understand through the time why missus Bennett would be like,
we have to secure something better than mister Collins in
this family at some point. Otherwise mister Collins can just

(01:02:41):
like displace us from our home and we would be
without a home, which mister Bennett seems I would say
weirdly indifferent about. Yeah. I was like, well, you would
also be displaced.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Well, no, because he would be dead. Oh, it's my understanding.
And again I don't understand all of the nuances of
this era in terms of like who inherits what and
when and who can and cannot own property, blah blah blah.
But I think the movie pretty clearly lays out that
when mister Bennett dies, that's when mister Collins will inherit. Okay, Okay,

(01:03:17):
so they have to secure marriages for the daughters prior
to mister Bennett dying.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Wait I didn't even ca yeah, because they keep referencing
oh my god. Okay, so that makes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Him even worse. Like I don't know, right, I am.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Not like, I don't think either of them are amazing parents,
but I do think that mister Bennett is worse because
I'm like, if I'm mister Bennett, and I have five
children and a spouse who, by the rules of the time,
will be displaced if I die. Before I die, I'm

(01:03:52):
gonna want to make sure they're good, right, I know,
But he's the opposite. And then and so I that's
part of the reason why I know we're still in
the recap, but also we're kind of doing we're kind
of doing the whole episode right now. Yeah, but like
that's part of the reason why I got kind of
annoyed that the movie and this felt kind of studio notes, ye,

(01:04:14):
and it kind of felt like my guess is, like, well,
Donald Sutherland took the role, don't make him look mean.
And the reason I guess that was because Donald Sutherland
was in a stage adaptation of Lolita in which he
played Humbert Humbert, and he demanded that Humbert Humbard be
more sympathetic because he didn't want to appear unsympathetic in public.

(01:04:40):
So this is a thing for like Donald Sutherland specifically
where he will accept a role of I mean, obviously,
like mister Bennett isn't Humbert Humbert, but like not the
most sympathetic character in the world, sure, and then demand
that the character be retrofitted to be more sympathetic. I

(01:05:00):
just like, I know that this is a thing with
Donald Sutherland, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is
a studio it's thing, but I feel like it's it's
actually like pretty fucking selfish of mister Bennett too, Yeah,
to be so checked out and then then but then
to get that like little flourish of like and I
love my daughter so much, like at the end, it's like, well,

(01:05:22):
that's interesting because two months ago you were willing to
have your entire family be possibly displaced if one fucking
random guy gets in a bad mood one day and
you're not accountable for that, Like, fuck you. Sorry, I'm
anti mister Bennett.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
My thought is, and I completely agree with you, and
we are able to like see these things about him
and his choices and behavior and identify them as awful. However,
I think that this type of thing was so normalized
in this era that no one even sure batted an

(01:06:04):
eyelash about it. Everyone's just like, well, yeah, this is
a woman's role in society to be a mother and
to be the primary caregiver for her children, especially in
terms of emotional support and worrying about their future and
teaching daughters how to be quote unquote proper women and
how to find husbands. That's what women and mothers do,

(01:06:28):
and because of rigid gender roles, men weren't expected to
have to deal with anything like that. Yeah, and then
just the way society was structured, the way that the
patriarchy was such a crushing presence. No one thought to
criticize that or question it or think it was weird

(01:06:49):
or to expect anything else. Yeah, well not no one,
but like most people, I would say, it was just
like such the norm. So again, like we're looking at
this stuff with our like twenty two and I'm not
like this is not in defense of like mister Bennett
or anything like that, but like, no, I think that
the movie portrays it this way because like that was

(01:07:10):
realistic for the time, and that was just like the
norm and expectation of the time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
I totally agree with you, you know, I God, I'm
so glad. God I love pride and prejudice. Like, I'm
so happy we're like having these discussions because I totally
agree with you. And then I feel like it does
in a way that Jane Austen seemed uniquely aware of
right in a way that like possibly Joe Wright and

(01:07:39):
Deborah Mogok or possibly studio knows, you don't know whatever
Donald Sutherland's agents, possibly, but in a way that even
in two thousand and five wasn't totally clear, where they
like turn up the sympathy knob for mister Bennett in
a way that I mean, at least for me as
a as a twelve year old viewer, I was like, oh,

(01:08:03):
dads are like and this is something that we talk
about on the show all the time, and it's it's
complicated by the fact that it's such an old story,
but like, the dads are more sympathetic than mom's trope
that comes up all the time, you know, without any
context of like why a father's role may be considered

(01:08:23):
considerably easier and less complicated than a mother's role because
of the systemic forces being pushed against a mother. Right,
And I feel like this du like it almost felt
like Jane Austen for me in the way that the
final draft of the movie, however that happened. I felt
like Jane Austen had it more right than the movie

(01:08:47):
and that in a way that I think the movie
mostly gets everything and like kind of trims the fat
and like really just makes it a good two hour
experience right right, And this movie didn't feel too long. Weirdly,
I know, it was like, oh, two hours and that
was all I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Needed, unlike every movie in theaters right now, because they're
all two and a half hours and I'm just sitting
there being like, you could have cut this, you could
have cut that. Why is this shot so long? But
like this, I have no patience these days.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
This movie is like kind of perfect. But like one
of the ways that I didn't I the addition of
the sympathetic dad. I felt like Jane Austen was more
on the nose where she didn't offer that kind of
absolution to either parent. But what I thought was interesting
was like in the movie there is like this element

(01:09:38):
of Lizzy specifically. And this also feels like just because
we're doing an Emma episode next and I've been listening
to the Emma audiobook and Emma's my favorite Jane Austen
novel and it's also clueless, So like all I have
to say, like Jane Austen heroins will often, you know,

(01:10:00):
take on other people's problems to avoid dealing with their own,
a problem that you know persists for people to this day,
but I did think it was like a recognizable thing
that like in the movie and in the book, Elizabeth
is very often taking on the problems of her relatives

(01:10:21):
for like very urgent reasons, but also to avoid confronting
her own feelings. She's like, well, I'm busy because Jane
and Bangley, or like I'm busy because my mom is
embarrassing us, or I'm busy because my dad is completely
checked out, and we do at least like you do

(01:10:41):
get to see that scene where Lizzie goes to her
dad and is like, are you looking out for Lydia
at all? Like, and I think that, like there's us
five years ago maybe wouldn't have understood this completely, but like,
you know, she goes to her dad and she's like,
Lydia is like ruining the reputation of the family by

(01:11:02):
just like kind of running wild, which is an inherently
sexist statement, but in the context of the time, Lizzie
is trying to look out for Lydia and her sisters
and the entire family and is like, I felt like,
at her core like criticizing her father for being like,
why are you doing nothing? Why are you so indifferent

(01:11:26):
every day of your life? Right? And it literally is
just because it's like you're saying, like he's like, well,
when I die, who gives a shit? And it's like, well, okay,
so you just like keep telegraphing to the whole family
that you don't give a shit about them because your
whole family is women, and because of the time and

(01:11:47):
place that you live, they will be endangered and displaced
if you spend this time doing nothing. And I feel
like that's what Lizzie is trying to say, and she
can't quite get through to him, and it's like so,
but but like, yeah, I don't know whatever she's parenting
her parents and then which.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
We all end up doing at some point as adults, I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Know, but Lizzie's twenty. I'm like, oh my god, could
she like live for two seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
She's middle aged by eighteenth or nineteenth century standards.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
She's forty five basically Okay, sorry, we haven't finished the recap,
but I feel like we've had a lot of parent discussions.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
So that's good, that's true. Yes, indeed, so Elizabeth receives
the letter from Jane saying that their sister has run
off with mister Wickham. Elizabeth is devastated. Elizabeth returns home,
where her mother is crying about their family being ruined
because a young woman running away with a man that
she's not married to is very improper and could ruin

(01:12:49):
the reputation of the entire family. But then the family
gets news that Lydia has been found and that she
and mister Wickham are married, and it seems that their
uncle found them and squared everything away. But Elizabeth learns
that it was actually mister Darcy who paid for the
wedding and fixed the whole situation, and then he.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
Goes, I hope you know it's all for you, And
then I wrote it down to my notes that mister
Darcy's love language is acts of service. It literally, I mean,
which is I mean? Honestly, I wouldn't even hand it
to him on that one, because every rich guy's love
language is acts of service. That's the least effort love language, right,

(01:13:33):
give me a fucking break.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Sorry, No, it's true anyways, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Guys are awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Then the family learns that mister Bingley is returning to
town he and Darcy pay a visit to the Bennetts.
Bingley is clearly working up the nerve to propose to Jane,
but he can't go it through with it, and then
he leaves, but then he comes back and finally follows
through on the proposal. Jane says, he.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Goes yes, yes, a thousand times, a thousand times, and
she's so happy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
And this is yet another thing that Darcy seems to
have fixed, which he fucked up before and which Elizabeth
confronted him about. Then Lady Catherine de Bergh pays Elizabeth
a visit. She seems to think that Elizabeth and Darcy
are engaged, and she will not hear of it because
she thinks that Elizabeth sucks and is undeserving of Darcy.

(01:14:30):
And Elizabeth is like, actually, you're the one who sucks.
Now get out what very ball or move love?

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
It very exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Then Darcy shows up and he's like.

Speaker 4 (01:14:41):
You have bewitched me body and soul, and I still
love you?

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Is there any chance that really like me?

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
You're sorry, you're just like really doing a great job.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
His I mean his delivery.

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
You have bewitched me body and soul, and you're like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
Oh, maaty and you're like, oh, oh my god, give
me a just give me one kiss. See what happens
if you give me just one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
So he's like, I understand if you still hate me,
but is there any chance that now you might like me?
And she's like, actually, yes, I love you. Let's nuzzle
each other.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
They do nosies. It's they do noses and like a
perfectly choreographed shot in the sunlight, and you're just like,
I am gonna die. It's so sweet, and it's like
it's so rare that like an enemy is to lover's
story feels I feel like, I mean, I feel like,

(01:15:39):
you know, with any enemy as a lover story, there's
always gonna be a few hitches, sure, but this is
in the upper percentile. It is like as close to
earned as you can get, because it's like it's time,
it's growth. I still think that like Darcy doesn't fully
deserve her. I like to think that he's spends the

(01:16:00):
rest of his life working towards deserving her more.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Yes, but which I think it ends on a note
that that seems very likely.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
Yeah, oh damn, I'm gonna cry.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
I just okay. So they're nuzzling each other, and then
they get their blessing to marry each other from mister Bennett,
and then Elizabeth and Darcy get married off screen, and
the movie ends with them enjoying a romantic evening together
and like deciding which pet names they should have, and.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Then he gives her a little kiss. Oh they love
little tiny faith kisses. Missus Darcy's missus, Darsy's dosy Like,
it's just oh my god, that I mean, twelve years
old Backbraize, never been kissed in my life. I was like,
I'm looking forward to this. I guess what, it doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
It didn't happen. Yeah, well, no, that's life. Okay, that's
so what have we not already covered?

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Oh? Boy? I feel like we kind of covered the
parents at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Yeah, and we've talked.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
A lot about Lizzie and Dark, but I guess, let's like,
put a bow on Lizzia and Darcy. Is there other
stuff that you wanted to talk about with Lizzie and Darcy.
I just felt like we're so accustomed to seeing stories
where men never apologize, never acknowledged that they were wrong
to do something, and this dynamic because of who Lizzie

(01:17:38):
is demands like she will not engage with him until
he acknowledges like I disrespected you, I disrespected your family,
And I genuinely was like I have to take notes
from her, Like she disconnects from him for long periods
of time because she's like, well, you know, like it's
clear that she there's something going on there. But she's

(01:18:02):
just like, but if you're not being respectful to the
most important people in my life, my sister, specifically her
relationship with Jane, and like judging my family and being
a classiest asshole, and it's like, it doesn't matter if
there's like an attraction between us, it's never gonna happen.
Like they're are just like her boundaries are so firm
with the people that she loves, and I just I

(01:18:25):
just love that, Like I just that's amazing in any
era and I and I and I love that, Darcy,
does you know her? Her being so firm and who
she is in some ways kind of pushes him to
have to grow because he's like, oh, well, I really
want to be in this woman's life, but she's not
going to interact with me unless I like look at

(01:18:48):
the darkest parts of myself basically, but then he does,
I mean, and it's like it's he's not one hundred
percent by the end of the story. But I just
feel like that's a rare dynamic to see portrayed in
any story of like a woman really holding her own
in what her values are and a man and this

(01:19:10):
is you know, obviously this is a very heterosexual story
in heterosexual time in terms of popular storytelling, right, But
like he is forced to look at himself and improve
and do better and like and then actually like is
on the way to that by the end of the story. Like,

(01:19:32):
I just it's, yeah, it's shocking for twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
I know most men won't do that, you know, And
he was true. This is another thing I have complicated
feelings about because on one hand, I mean, I love
Elizabeth Bennett. She's smart, she's funny, she's got a quick wit,
she isn't afraid to speak her mind. In a time
period and in a culture where these things were not

(01:19:59):
really valued of women.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
Dangerous to speak your mind in this time if you're well,
you could be fucked for life.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
Right, And despite those things, like she still has strong
convictions and strong opinions, and she voices them, and she's
so good at comebacks to a point where I'm like,
I gotta take notes about that, because her comeback game
is amazing. She's like not really sold on the idea

(01:20:25):
of not necessarily romantic love, because she says at one
point like only the deepest, strongest love would drive me
to matrimony, and therefore I think I'll end up an
old maid because men are humorless poppy cocks slash men
are either eaten up with arrogance or stupidity. If they

(01:20:46):
are amiable, they are so easily led they have no
minds of their own whatsoever. So she does not have
a very high opinion of men in general. Mister Darcy
comes along. He seems like just like all the other boys,
like too proud, and you know he's prejudiced to prejudice.

(01:21:06):
He seems miserable. She notices it right away, or at
least that's her perception of him, that's her first impression.
Then then there's a scene where he talks about how
he hardly knows any accomplished women because by his standards,
a woman has to have a thorough knowledge of you know,
music and drawing and dancing in languages and she has

(01:21:28):
to improve her mind by extensive reading, which Elizabeth does do.
She loves books, and I wonder if Jane Austen was
kind of the first sort of perpetrators of the trope.
Girl is not like the other girls because she likes
books anyway, So he's like kind of carrying on about
you know, I would only consider a woman who has

(01:21:49):
all these qualities, and she's like, how do you even
know any women like that? And he's like, okay, I
guess you hate women. And then she's like, no, you
just have ridiculous high standards, which she doesn't actually really say,
but I feel like that's what's implied in that conversation.
So like we learn about his just kind of I
guess prejudice against women, his like standards that are too high.

(01:22:13):
But meanwhile he's like falling in love with her, so
you know, he's confused.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
But also I feel like he's doing the thing that like,
I mean, and again it's like I feel like it's
rewarded in the context that he's doing it, where it's like, oh,
his standards are very high, but he's doing the thing
that people do of all genders, where they set standards
so high that they're unattainable and they never need to
emotionally engage with someone because they're like, well, no one's

(01:22:38):
going to be good enough for me, so I guess
I'm just going to be alone forever. And it's like, well, no,
you're actually just scared.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
Wow, it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
He's he's scared. He's scared, but it's like because of
his class and his gender, he's rewarded as like, oh,
you're being but if you put that attitude into so
many other people of that era, it would be received
so didly.

Speaker 7 (01:23:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Yes, So there's that conversation, and then after she calls
him out several times for being unpleasant and too proud
and all of this and too prejudice, he like seems
to start to see the error of his ways, and
she is like maybe not intentionally on her part, but

(01:23:22):
like he does seem to be displaying growth and he's
doing some self reflecting and being like wow, maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
And it's like active, it's not accidental.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
But then the like the midpoint rolls around of the
movie where he proposes, and in his proposal he's like, wow,
everything's telling me that I shouldn't be in love with you.
Because I am so proud and prejudiced, but I love
you anyway. And she's like, Okay, well that was the
worst proposal I've ever heard. You were so mean to
me and my family just then, and you also ruined

(01:23:56):
my sister's life and you're mean. And he's like, well,
I guess I have more growing to do. So then
he goes and grows some more.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
I just I really like, I love it. I love it.
Elizabeth is amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Yes, what I admire about this is her behavior. I'm
still not very sold on, like and I don't think
you are either, but like Darcy being completely deserving of
kind of the redemption that he gets in Elizabeth's eyes, No,
I agree, but also like a redemption by like whatever,

(01:24:37):
like eighteen hundreds or late seventeen hundred's standards probably didn't
have to be that significant because the bar for men's
behavior was low.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
And I also think it's like a lesson in I
don't know, I mean, I felt like, let me know
how you feel about this. I felt like, I don't
even think Elizabeth was saying at the end of the story, like,
I think Darcy is exactly where he needs to be.
He's a fully formed person. I think that her conditions

(01:25:11):
for being to marry him was like that she believed
that he could get there and was like, like he
had displayed that, like I am willing to do the
work and the self introspection and the like questioning my
prides and prejudices to be a better person, which I
think is like, you know, and obviously this isn't like

(01:25:34):
a blanket statement, but in a serious relationship, I think
that that's the thing is like, very often it's like,
you know, if you're waiting for someone to arrive at
you fully formed, you could be waiting for a very
long time, and that's fine. But I think for a
lot of people it is often enough for it to

(01:25:54):
be like, Okay, no, you're not fully formed, but you
know that, and you're willing to continue working, and it's
not like my burden to get you to where you
need to be. You're a work in progress and you're
getting to where you need to. And it seems like
that's sort of where they both are, and like part
of the reason why they connect is because like, and

(01:26:17):
I feel like it's made more explicit in the in
the movie, in that scene that makes me cry, even
though I have issues with mister Bennett. But the way
that Lizzie talks in that scene where she's just like,
we're so similar, like we which I feel like is
her way of acknowledging like we're both works in progress.
I do think that the way that they're they are similar.

(01:26:38):
The context is different because like Darcy's prides and prejudices
are more impactful because of the time they're living in
and less sympathetic than Lizzie's because Lizzie's prides and prejudices
are against the rich, so it's kind of easier to
get on her side totally. Darcy's prides and prejudices are

(01:26:59):
against the poorest. So they're similar impulses, but they're you know,
weaponized very differently with very different results. So yeah, I
feel like, maybe, you know, that's not fully examined, But
I do believe that Lizzie thinks, and I want to
believe it based on his behavior that it's like he's

(01:27:19):
not perfect, but he's demonstrated a lot of growth, and
I think that he's willing to continue working to deserve
being with me, and I think that that is like
a very beautiful, empathetic thing. I don't know, I agree,
that's just how I feel today.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Sure right, ask me again tomorrow. Elizabeth being prejudice in
a cool way where she's like, fuck the rich, eat
the rich, right, I do find and again this might
just be demonstrative of my lack of understanding of culture
at the time. I'm not a history scholar, believe it

(01:27:59):
or not. Listener of the Bechdel cast.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
Brave of you to admit, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
So they're always talking about how poor they are, the
Bennett family, but then they live in a huge mansion
and have a bunch of servants.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
So that was a So that's something that comes up
a lot because I was also like, explain this to me,
uh yeah, like I don't fully have an understanding of that.
I do know that, it's like that also seemed to
be based on my slight research because I didn't I mean,
and we're I fully intend to do more Jane Austen

(01:28:35):
research before I am a episode, but I just did
not have time before this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
That's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
But my understanding, just have a brief Jane Austen overview,
is that Jane Austen very much presented herself as like
an underdog, like I'm poor, but like, and I feel
like people people still do this all the time today.
They're like, I'm poor, and then you're like, you're like
a really famous person's daughter, Like what are you talking about?
You know, like they're like, I'm so relatable, like and

(01:29:03):
I'm thinking of five people. But I you know, I
respect women, so I'm not gonna say that. But like,
you know, my understanding is that the class difference that's
being examined here that isn't like fully made clear in
either the book or the movie, partially because of where
Jane Austen was coming from, being like I'm poor, which

(01:29:23):
was her way of saying I'm upper middle class and
everyone else around me is fabulously wealthy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
That is what.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
There's a class difference, but it's like not because it's
like in the whole book, you meet one working class
character and it's Darcy's head servant, and she all she
can talk about is how much she loves Darcy. Like
this is not a working class story at all. And
I feel like the Bennetts, You're totally like, I agree,

(01:29:51):
Like the Bennetts are presented as like we're so poor,
but this is a story between like the middle to
upper middle class versus fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Elon the welse, you know, right, yeah, yeah, So the
information I've gathered is that Darcy earns ten thousand dollars
a year or ten thousand pounds, sorry, ten thousand pounds
a year, which is the equivalent of somewhere million between. Well,
it's between. It's between six hundred and seven hundred thousand

(01:30:21):
pounds per year, which is a significant income.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
That's a lot of money, for.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Sure, But I don't think they're like billionaire status, or
if anyone even was back then.

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
Yeah, actually fuck him.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
The Bennett family according to my research, and maybe this
was mentioned in the book, but I think they bring
in an income of two thousand pounds a year, which
is slightly less than half of what Bingley brings in,
which is five thousand pounds a year. So yeah, based
on that, they seem middle class, I would say the Bennetts.

Speaker 3 (01:30:56):
Which like fine, I yeah, I feel like that's almost
like a Jane Austin an issue too, because like.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
But then, but again, according to my research, Jane Austen
was fairly poor her entire life and didn't become famous
until after her death, which was at like age forty
one or something like that. She died quite young and
wasn't famous or wealthy, and I think was like I
think again, according to some some of the resources I consulted,

(01:31:24):
was living below the poverty line her entire life.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
I totally, I mean I didn't do the Jane Austen
life prep, so I totally, yeah, you're right, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
You so much. That's so I am a scholar after all.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
Wow, that's so interesting because it's like most of her
stories are so of the upper class, and it's like
not even really a criticism of her, because it's also like,
I mean, it's funny, like we were talking about Succession
at the beginning of this episode, where like forever and
there's a lot of criticism on it, and like there

(01:31:59):
are I still believe there's not enough like stories about
the working class, and particularly like fun and engaging stories
about the working class, where it's so often you get
working class stories that are just trauma porn and everyone's like, well,
we're bummed out, and it's like, well, yeah, no shit,
Like rich people are having all the fun in movies too,
like fuck you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
You know, but except for that scene in Titanic when
they're the poor people are having fun dancing below deck
and the rich people are hopping.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
They all died two days later. They're all like we
all we like, you can't have that scene without having
to watch all of those characters individually drowned. So like
it's it, it cancels out.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
Fair point.

Speaker 8 (01:32:37):
Yeah, But but but I'll have to say, like Succession,
that's the current show about like rich people fucking around
and having complicated interpersonal relationships that.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
Matthew mcfatdy and is also in that, like people across
class lines really enjoy because that has been so much
of how the history of storytelling has been. It's like,
you know, kings and queens and rich people like that's
been so many of the famous story and that's like
something that I think is like up for examination of,

(01:33:09):
like why can't we have more working class heroes without
it being tragedy poor? And I think that's like something
that I hope is you know, there there are stories
where that's the case, but it's still a lot of
rich people, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
I just wish it was like maybe made a little
clearer in the book as well, because they they're always
because I do like get how upper middle class people
are often saying I'm poor when they're around rich people
all the time. But it's also like you're an author
or you're a filmmaker, you can contextualize that and not
just have the only working class person in the entire

(01:33:45):
movie talk about how much you love rich people. And
I've never I've never.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
Seen oh Downton Abby.

Speaker 3 (01:33:54):
Yes, but that that's something that does that well, right,
like that that is.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
Really well, it's been a few years since I've seen it,
but yeah, it basically pays equal attention and equal screen
time and characterization and all of that stuff to the
upper class you know, aristocracy people and the working class
servants who work for the rich people.

Speaker 3 (01:34:18):
Hell yeah, so okay.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
Whereas in this movie and like you know, this this story,
it is really only concerned about the lives and affairs
of people of like, you know, these higher economic classes
and anyone of significantly lower class, like the servants who
we see like working in the Bennett house. Uh, they're

(01:34:40):
given no characterization.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Like who are they? Yeah, yeah, they're I mean, they're
basically viewed as like status and property, which is like
again complicated when you consider the fact that like a
lot of what the Bennetts are the Bennett's sisters in particular,
are pushing up against is like I don't want to
be viewed as property. But then there's also you're in

(01:35:02):
the middle class, so you do view other people as property,
but you resent being considered as property by people above you,
Like where's your empathy for the people below you? And
I don't have have like read I think like how
many Jane Okay, wait, let me pull up Okay, I've
read one, two, three, four out of like seven Jane

(01:35:25):
Austen novels, I don't really remember, Like if there is
one particular Jane Austen book that tackles this particularly, that's
really interesting that she she would have had an intimate
understanding of the poorer classes. But I also think that
there's something to be said for like in this time,
especially because she had to write under pseudonyms. Right, did

(01:35:47):
stories about poor people sell in the eighteen hundreds?

Speaker 7 (01:35:51):
Maybe not Oliver Twist Oliver Twist Poor, but that was
written by a man, So you know, it's like it's
we clearly don't have enough knowledge to make any definiteness statement.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
I guess where the more effective class discussion comes in
for this story is the recognition on Jane Austen's part
that in this society, women had so few options and
so few rights and opportunities that one of the only
ways that they could secure any hope for survival was

(01:36:27):
to marry a man, and therefore the goal for many
women becomes find the man with the highest income. Because
part of me is like, wow, this is a movie
almost entirely about women talking about who should I marry,
who can I marry? Who was the richest guy? Did?
Like so much of that where like just coming at

(01:36:48):
it from like a very surface level, like Bechdel test
point of view, is like, oh, that doesn't feel great,
but considering the historical context and you know, just the
nuances of well, yeah, but women were considered lesser than
men and living in this very oppressive structure and had

(01:37:09):
very few options, and the most realistic one and the
most feasible one for most women was to try to marry. Well,
so you can't fault them for that because that's literally
just survival.

Speaker 3 (01:37:26):
And yeah, that's that's sort of like that's something that
I feel like is growth moment in terms of how
we have taken the approach to this show over the years,
Like I feel like there was a time in the
show where we'd be like, they're talking about marriage the
whole time, but it's like in this time and in

(01:37:48):
this story, when they're talking about marriage, the subtext is
they're talking about survival, right, and they're talking about like
there are no you know, Like it's very I don't know,
I don't know why. I'm just like twenty seventeen, Like
it's very twenty seventeen to be like, well, why didn't
they start a small business?

Speaker 9 (01:38:06):
It's like, yeah, they should have become girl bosses, right, right,
like in extraordinary circumstances, like obviously, like there there are
always women in every time Jane Austen.

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
Included, who were able to have careers independently, but that
came at such significant cost. It was not the norm.
It's an unreasonable expectation for women of this time to
not be thinking of marriage as inherently connected to survival,
especially if your family is all women and the one
man in the family they've a shit, massive and shitty,

(01:38:39):
like I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
So that comes through in like, yeah, a lot of
missus Bennett's behavior, right, And there's a there's a scene
with Lizzie's friend Charlotte where she comes to tell Lizzie
that she's married mister Collins because it offered her a
secure future and like Lizzie's like, but he's ridiculou and
she's like, look, I'm twenty seven years old, which like,

(01:39:03):
for the time was sixteen years old. I was considered
like an old maid. Basically, she's like, I have no
money and no prospects. I'm a burden to my parents.
I'm frightened, So don't you dare judge me? And it's like,
oh shit, like I see where you're coming from.

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
Charlotte such an effectively written scene that was like condensed
for the movie, but I just thought it was so
well done. Yeah, yeah, that whole I mean that whole friendship,
and I really I think that's like a cool and
it does come through clearly in the book as well,
where that's like I think that her storyline was Charlotte
might be like one of the first prides and prejudices

(01:39:40):
that Lizzie works through in the story where obviously everyone
knows that mister Collins is not great and Lizzie rejects
him and it's amazing and it's very exciting. And then
when Charlotte contextualizes her situation where she's like, Okay, you're
twenty and you're from a your family than I am.

(01:40:02):
And and because women were so this is something we
haven't really talked about yet, like women were so aggressively
judged for how they looked and beauty standards. I feel
like it's kind of interesting because two thousand and five
beauty standards are being pumped in, whereas like the beauty
standards of the eighteen hundreds would have been different. I
think that if this was a true period piece, the

(01:40:24):
women in the story would look different. But all that
to say, like even with the two thousand and five
beauty standards put in to this story, it's like, you
are the beauty, so you are our ticket into financial security.
You are not quote unquote the beauty in the traditional

(01:40:45):
Western beauty standards sense, and therefore you will be neglected.
And like it's mentioned, I mean it's said, and this
is like one of the places where you're like, fuck
Missus Bennett, where Missus Bennett just like mascot, Like I
don't think she's hot, and so I'm not interested in
talking about her. And Lizzie like never does that, never

(01:41:07):
judges anyone based on how they look because she like
knows it's bullshit because she's Lizzie Bennett. And yeah, I
mean there's that scene at the beginning where like missus
Bennett is criticizing how Charlotte looks, and like, this is
clearly feedback that Charlotte has been getting for a long time.
It's clearly feedback that Mary has been getting. It's clearly

(01:41:28):
feedback that Lady Catherine's daughter whose name escapes me at
this moment, has been getting. And it's like there are
multiple and I think that's like really strong writing on
Jane Austen's part and ooh, screenwriter Deborah Mogoq's part. Mogok
don't know, sorry, mogotch could be anything, but I think

(01:41:49):
that's really strong on their part, that it's like this
is this is something that has been thrown in their
face their entire lives, and they've been made to feel
small by it, and it's clearly affected them and that's
to be expected. And it's like, I think given the
circumstance that Charlotte has been in where she's been called
unattractive her whole life, which is not even true, and

(01:42:10):
the fact that she's twenty seven years old. Oh no,
we're both literally dead in this situation. But like, you know,
the time whatever, right, And I still think that, Like
she ends up, she stands up to Lizzie and is like, look,
what would you fucking do in my situation? And then
on top of that is like, I'm not sentimental like you.
I want to survive, right, So like what do you

(01:42:33):
want from me? And Lucy has to like it's still
not how she's going to live her life. And part
of that is because of her own privilege, both physically
and financially, right, And so she is privileged to be
able to take the stands that she does and not
have her whole life fall apart as a result, even
though it still could, but like less likely, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
Yeah, she's got you know, like youth privilege, youth privilege,
cure Knightley hot privilege where she can down mister Collins,
she can turn down mister Darcy has for his first proposal. Yeah,
she she's turning down people, even though mister Collins is like, yeah,
there's no guarantee that you'll ever get another marriage proposal,
and it's like sir, Okay, do you know who you're

(01:43:16):
talking to you're talking to Kiera Knightly like, which also
makes the scene at the beginning when mister Darcy's like, yeah,
she's tolerable but not handsome enough to tempt me, and
it's like, you're talking about Kia Nightly.

Speaker 3 (01:43:31):
Well great, we're all fun because you just called Kiara
Knightly ugly, Like what are you talking about? Anyways? I agree,
but I think that, like in the text, Lizzy is
forced to examine that and like is able to get
past it and continues, like because it's said in the book.

(01:43:53):
I think at the like Lizzy's like, oh, now we're
never gonna see each other again, We're not gonna be friends.
This so blah blah blah. But then they do remain friends,
and Lizzie gets past her prides and prejudices Charlotte I still,
I mean, it's like I want better for Charlotte, I
want better for Mary. I want them to, you know,

(01:44:15):
live in a society that doesn't make them feel like
shit against stuff that isn't even true. But then it's
also like I just really thought that it was a
nice thing in this story and in this time that
like these two women prioritize their friendship and their love
for each other, and because this is how things had

(01:44:38):
to play out for Charlotte to survive in a way
that she was comfortable with that Lizzie's like, Okay, I
hear you, and we can still be friends. I just
think it's really it's not. Nothing is ideal in the
way that stories work out between women and the story
for the most part. But I do think that it's
nice that they like Lizzie prioritizes how Charlotte's feeling, and

(01:45:01):
that's why she's able to remain friends. And Charlotte is
also very sensitive to like whatever. Charlotte's like empathetic to like, yeah,
I get why you didn't want to marry mister Collins,
but I'm doing it so to like be friends.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
Yeah, and I've got this room that I can escape
to where he won't bother me.

Speaker 3 (01:45:21):
And isn't that she has her She has her like
woman cave where she's like no Collins is allowed.

Speaker 9 (01:45:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:45:34):
I think one of the big strengths of this adaptation
is that even though many many characters were eliminated or
scaled back in the movie, but the movie chooses to
keep a lot of the relationships between women, notably Elizabeth
and her sisters and mother, and Elizabeth and her friend Charlotte.

(01:45:56):
Those are still present in the movie, and they're given
I thought, a good amount of focus because even though
the driving vehicle for this story is the romance between
Elizabeth and Darcy, screen time dedicated to her relationships with women,
they don't like dwindle those down at the expense of

(01:46:19):
this relationship, this romantic relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:46:21):
I agree, I agree, Yeah, and I like that you
still get the relationship between Lizzie and Jane. I would
have liked. And again, this is and we have to
I mean, we've been recording for.

Speaker 2 (01:46:32):
A while, so hours, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:46:35):
Almost been two hours, so we do need to wrap up.
But like I do like that Lizzie and Jane like
they're again. It was like giving like a little bit
of little women of like the eldest has is a
little more shy, a little more reserved. It was giving
me some meg March energy of like, sure, I want
a more traditional life and Lizzie is that's not who

(01:46:58):
she is at all. But they have such a strong
love for each other. They would do anything for each other,
and they are able to like navigate each other's personalities
and the way that like true friendships and love does
I love their relationship same? I love and I have
like such a soft spot for Jane, even though sometimes

(01:47:19):
I'm like, Jane, speak up for yourself. But like I
like Jane is like more of.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
She's shy and modice shine.

Speaker 3 (01:47:26):
Yeah, like she's a sweetie. And Lydia, I mean I
also think that like with with Lydia and and Kid Kiddy,
it's they're so young that it's like you can't really
justdge Like I understand that sixteen is thirty in this world,
but like they're so young and that like you can't

(01:47:47):
really judge them on anything like where I know, like
and the.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
Story and the story.

Speaker 3 (01:47:52):
Acknowledges that, like they're very very young, and it's like, yeah,
there are two teenage girls that are really excited that
there's a lot of cute boys around, Like right, they're fifteen,
like they're seventeen, Like yeah, give them a break. And
I do feel like maybe that both stories could have
given them more empathy and reminders that it's like these

(01:48:14):
are kids right to like chill out, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:48:17):
And even though adult men married fifteen year olds during
this time, yikes.

Speaker 3 (01:48:24):
They're still kids.

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
They're teen girls doing teen girl shit, and everyone's just
like you were so silly and ridiculous, and it's like, no.

Speaker 3 (01:48:31):
You're brilliating the family. It's like, oh god, I'm glad
the steaks weren't like that when I was a teenager,
because I was, I mean I was. I was like
every teenage girl is like, if that's the steaks for
every teenager in general, your family's fucked. Like teenagers are embarrassing,
Like that's what you're supposed to be embarrassing. It's literally
your one job is to do the most embarrassing thing

(01:48:54):
you can think of.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
Truly. Yeah, okay, So just a couple last till things.
Fun fact, I learned from our favorite scholarly journal Wikipedia
that apparently a person from Chili watched this movie two
hundred and seventy eight times during a single year. So
oh yeah, an icon. Good for her.

Speaker 3 (01:49:17):
Oh that's the end of the story.

Speaker 2 (01:49:19):
What did I learned?

Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
They're like, nope, I just watched it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:21):
It was a fifty one year old woman who declared
herself as obsessed with the film and she saw Elizabeth
Bennett as a feminist icon.

Speaker 3 (01:49:32):
Okay, she's right, and that's literally gonna be me somedays,
so I can't even criticize. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna
do something two hundred and seventy eight times.

Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
I mean I watched Titanic basically two hundred and seventy
times a year. So yes, just a couple things I
really enjoyed about the movie. I loved the scene where
Elizabeth is dancing at the ball at Bingley's estate and
she's carrying on several different conversations, one with mister Collins
and then I think one with Jane. And because of

(01:50:00):
like how dancing was back then, you could only talk
to someone for like three seconds before you then like
stepped away from them.

Speaker 3 (01:50:07):
Yeah, I just like.

Speaker 2 (01:50:08):
Loved the choreography and like loved the dialogue in that scene.

Speaker 3 (01:50:11):
The choreography of this movie is amazing, the camera choreography,
the physical court Like it's also I'm gonna see Sarah
noh god damn it. I'm excited.

Speaker 7 (01:50:21):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
Kiera Knightley is doing really good face acting. Her facial
expressions are doing so much work in the movie. I
love it. I love the scene where the women are
all like lounging around the house very just like leisurely
kind of sloppy missus Bennett has like a half eaten
plate of food on her lap, and then they see
Bingley and Darcy walking up, so they have this like

(01:50:42):
mad scramble and then cut to them like very poised
and proper to receive guests. But I just like love
that because it's like, wow, women back then were just
like us.

Speaker 3 (01:50:55):
And I also love that, like this is a rare
I mean, this is maybe like a weird thing to
make notice, But like Kiera Knightley is the age of
the character in this week, Oh yeah, she like Lizzie.
I feel like that's a very rare dig good movies.
And I always use the example of like CW teenagers,
where like I could play a CW teenager and I
am almost thirty so and that's been like the case forever.

(01:51:19):
But like Kiera Knightley is, like I think most people
are like cast pretty age appropriate in this uh in
this movie. And so you do feel like, especially when
it's like Jenna Alone, you're like, yeah, genial alone. I
mean actually jenaal Alone is older than Kiera Knightley. Believe
it or not, what I think, let me double check.
I think that Kura Nightley may be the youngest and

(01:51:40):
the cast question.

Speaker 2 (01:51:42):
Mark, well even younger than Kerrie Mulligan.

Speaker 3 (01:51:44):
She and Kerry Mulligan are the exact same age. Whoa
and then Rasamund Pike. How old is Rasmund Pike? Yeah,
Rasamund Pike is older than them, it doesn't matter. Sorry,
continue it, but yeah, like I just thought it was Yeah,
she married like Kiera Knightley to Lulailey and Harry Mulligan.
We're all the same age even though they're different ages.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
Well, speaking of Mary and my Justice for Mary Bennett section, again,
the book mostly ignores her to the point where as
I was reading it, I was like, who's Mary? And
then I thought that there were only four Bennett sisters
for a large chunk of it. But I feel like
in the movie she's like given a little bit more

(01:52:23):
time and attention. I love the scene where she's like,
bells are silly. If we're gonna get acquainted to each other,
how would anyone do that by dancing? Shouldn't you talk
to a person to get to know them? And everyone's
just like, shut up, Mary, But she's right. I just
like her a lot, and I wish her all the best.

Speaker 3 (01:52:44):
I think she's great, and I feel like the movie,
even more so than the book, knows that she's great
and her character is like fleshed out a little more.
I like to think down the line that like Mary
really found someone, whether it was in marriage or friendship,
who like got her. Yeah, I hope she did, because
it seemed like there wasn't anyone in her family who
like in the way that like Lizzie and Jane really

(01:53:06):
got each other, and the way that like Lydia and
Kitty for a lot of their relationship really got each other.
I feel like Mary was the album out. I hope
she found someone that really understood her. She deserved that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
Yeah, but uh yeah, that's really all I had. Did
you have anything else?

Speaker 3 (01:53:21):
No, that's basically all I had. I just I truly,
I mean I without getting personal. I feel like this
this story. I rediscovered this story at a very nice time,
and that, like Lizzie, no matter when you're coming back
to her, there's lessons to be learned from the Gospel
of Lizzie Bennett. She is incredible and I really like

(01:53:45):
that she and Jane and the story very happy like
and with you know, and it is in the conventional way,
but I feel like the way that Jane Austen writes,
in the way that this story in the adaptation plays out,
it feels earned and you want these characters to find
their bliss in the way that they could in this time,

(01:54:06):
and it seems like they do and that.

Speaker 2 (01:54:08):
Makes me happy in a way that again that like
enemies to lovers trope never really works for me. And
as yeah, you know Nora Efron or no was it
her sister pointed out, like that never happens in real life,
where people start out hating each other and then they
fall in love, but that is a big movie thing.
I feel like this is maybe the one narrative where

(01:54:32):
I can get behind that because it certainly didn't work
for me. And You've Got Mail or I mean a similar.

Speaker 3 (01:54:40):
Thing for most of the time, right because yeah, like
we were saying, it's unrealistic, but like in this one,
it's so it starts with the broad trope, but it
attacks the broad trope with such subtlety. And also just
like time, like, I feel like a part of the
reason that You've Got Male doesn't work. There's a lot
of reasons, but like one of the reasons it doesn't

(01:55:01):
work is because it all happened so quickly, and like
pride and prejudice, It's like Darcy and Elizabeth don't talk
for months at a time as they continue to work
on themselves, which I feel like is honestly like kind
of harder for modern stories where it's so easy to
keep tabs on each other, and like the idea of
like truly not knowing what someone else is up to

(01:55:24):
for months is kind of inconceivable if you're remotely interested
in who they are or what they do. But like
this was a time where it's like, yeah, Lizzie didn't
know what Darcy was up to while she continued to
experience life and like overcome her pride, prides and prejudices
independent of him, and vice versa. And then it would

(01:55:44):
be like they would reconnect every several months and be like, oh,
I'm growing, but it's still not time. And then they
would reconnect. I'd be like, oh, you've improved, I've improved. Interesting,
and like, I don't know, I feel like that's for me.
That's why it works. It's because it is like gradual,
and the issues that they have outside of their lives

(01:56:06):
is interconnected because of the circles they run in but
it's like they're both on their own sort of stories.
They're both dealing with their own shit, and it's when
they reconnect and kind of regroup and they're like, Okay,
I've improved in this way, but I still suck in
this way. And then the other person's like, okay, well
I still have this pride in this prejudice, but I
got rid of this pride and this prejudice. And they're like, okay,

(01:56:28):
let's regroup in September or like whatever, you know. I
just it feels very true to like, I just okay.

Speaker 2 (01:56:36):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:56:37):
Does this pass the Bectel test? Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
Yes. Although so much of the movie is women, Actually,
when are there conversations that past? Because so many of
the conversations between women where women do interact a lot
in the movie, but it seems like they're always talking
about men, if not directly, like that's the subtext of
the conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:56:59):
I was getting exchanges, not full conversations, but exchanges do pass.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Okay, As far as our nipple scales, your to five nipples.
Based on how the movie affairs from an intersectional feminist lens,
I'll give this four nipples. It's a nice story. I
really liked this movie. I was not expecting to like
this movie as much as I did, especially because.

Speaker 3 (01:57:25):
Like so happy when I found out you liked it,
because I was like, there's hope. If Caitlin likes it,
I'm gonna love rewatching it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
I think it's a really well made movie. I get
why people love it so much. It does make me
want to see Sarah No. Yeah, Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 3 (01:57:41):
Let's see Sarah No together. Oh. I would be so
excited to see Sarah No with you. Let's do it,
Dane Glitch dang.

Speaker 2 (01:57:49):
And it makes me want to watch the BBC mini
series anyway for Nipples, because even though I think mister
Darcy still has a lot of work to do on
himself with all of his prides and prejudices. I love
Elizabeth Bennett as a character. I do think she's a
feminist icon. I think it's cool that you can call

(01:58:11):
a character from a book that's over two hundred years
old a feminist icon. And I think this adaptation leans
into that aspect of her character in really satisfying ways.
And yes, it is a very nineteenth century version of
feminism that's very white and very hetero and very middle

(01:58:32):
class and maybe four nipples is too high, but damn it,
it's just a really good movie, so it gets some
extra love.

Speaker 3 (01:58:45):
Who are you giving your nipples too?

Speaker 2 (01:58:46):
Oh? One nipple to Lizzie Bennett. I'm gonna give one
to Mary Bennett. One to the servant woman who I
think is given a name, but I for I to
write it down, and she does have a name, Betsy
or something like that, And I'm going to give my
final nipple to Around the nineteen minute mark, there is

(01:59:09):
a very weird shot of a pig's testicles.

Speaker 3 (01:59:15):
Yes, I was wondering if that was going to come back,
but it's just missus Bennett looking at the pigs testicle
and then she kind of smiles, and they were like, what.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
Why is this in the movie?

Speaker 3 (01:59:24):
Is that symbolism? And like, is my brain not making
the connection that I'm like, fertility. I'm like, what is it?
What are you trying to tell me? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:59:34):
Anyway, So I love the very gratuitous random shot of
a pig's giant ballsack.

Speaker 3 (01:59:41):
Femina's icon pigs ballsack, got it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:44):
And that's what gets my fourth and final nipple. Jamie's
how about.

Speaker 3 (01:59:48):
You, I'll meet you at four For many of the
same reasons. I think that this movie is so well done.
I love like I feel like it's so rare that
you're like, this adaptation makes the story both faithful to
the source material and more accessible in a way that
certainly hit for me when I was twelve, where I

(02:00:11):
had tried to read the book and I was like,
I totally get it. And then I remember going to
see the movie and being like, oh, now I actually
get it because it's laid out so clearly and it
but also in a way that doesn't sacrifice the themes
or the characters. It just like pulls it into focus.
It makes it more streamlined and beautiful, Like Joe wright
movies are so beautiful. And I also just want to

(02:00:34):
acknowledge the behind the scenes stuff here, you know, huge
ups to screenwriter Deborah Mogok who started as a novelist.
This was her first screenplay. It was nominated for a
bath to huge stuff. I mean, there's still it is
still mostly white guys behind the scenes. We've got Joe
Wright directing, all male producers, male cinematographer. So I do

(02:00:55):
want to like specifically focus on the screenwriter who was
a first time Green writer.

Speaker 2 (02:01:00):
Also, Emma Thompson helped with some of the story development
and dialogue, but is uncredited.

Speaker 3 (02:01:07):
Emma Thompson is not given enough credit for the fact
that she's also a very accomplished writer. I know enough
she is. And also in terms of the writer Deborah Mogux,
she's also I mean, she just like has a cool
life in general. She's been a huge advocate for changing
the law in dignity and death and assisted suicide and

(02:01:29):
just like all of this really complicated, like cool advocacy work.
Like she's just a really cool person. So I wanted
to shout her out. And Lizzie Bennett, I mean, I
truly like, there are few there's so I mean, thankfully,
in the interceding two hundred years, there's been a lot
of great feminist characters who's been writing, but like Lizzie
Bennett endures for a reason. She's fucking awesome. There's, like

(02:01:53):
we were talking about, there's still things that Lizzie Bennett's
able to do and advocating for herself and her family
and her loved ones that like it's hard for me
to do in the day to day and it's a
struggle out there. It's really like life affirming to be like,
well it worked off for a Lizzie right like. Anyways,
I love this story, I love this movie. I was

(02:02:14):
so refreshed and relieved to revisit it and find it
to have just as many moments that really stuck with
me as it did when I saw it when I
was twelve. So I'll give it four nipples. I'm gonna
give one to Lizzie. I'll give one to Deborah Mogok,
i will give one two Charlotte. I love Charlotte, and

(02:02:36):
I'll give one to Mary and those will be my
four nipples. Ooo.

Speaker 2 (02:02:42):
There you have it, folks. That was our unlocked Matreon
episode on Pride and Prejudice. Hope you enjoyed it. If
you haven't heard it before because you're not already on
the Matreon, well now is the damn time.

Speaker 3 (02:02:57):
Yes, absolutely, As you heard in the episode, it's a
little bit of loser discussion. It's usually just me and Caitlin,
and we very often cover movies that are our listeners' choices,
so a lot of weird stuff on there and a
lot of fan favorites so and it's also just like
a really nice community if you join the Matreon. You

(02:03:18):
often get discounts on merch at our shows, you get
advanced tickets to our shows. There's just plenty of perks
to being a part of the community. It's five bucks
a month and you also get access to upwards of
two hundred episodes of backlog. We've had it since twenty seventeen.
So however, many times that equals we get asked a

(02:03:39):
lot like what is the best way to directly support
the show? That is the best way to directly support
the show, and so we hope to see you over there.

Speaker 2 (02:03:46):
Also, don't forget you can grab tickets to my stand
up show in State College, Pennsylvania in mid April at
the Blue Brick Theater. We'll put the tickets to that
on our link tree. Also that same weekend, I'm teaching
a stand up workshop, So if you can't get enough
of me and comedy, please come learn about stand up

(02:04:09):
from me at this workshop. The registration link for that
will also be on our link tree. So hope to
see you there. If you're in the area, you can
access the Bechdel Cast's link tree at link tree slash
Bechdel Cast. Imagine that and we'll put it in the
description as well. Certainly and with that, you know, I hope.

Speaker 3 (02:04:31):
You enjoyed the episode. We love you so much and uh,
you know, go make out with the love of your life.
See if we care?

Speaker 2 (02:04:39):
Yeah dare Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production
of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced
by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song
was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski.

(02:04:59):
Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and
a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about
the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdelcast

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