Pulp Fiction with Jake Weisman

And we will strike down up thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who make movies that treat women poorly. Special guest Jake Weisman joins us to discuss Pulp Fiction! (This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
invest start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello, welcome
to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name's Caitlin,
and this is our podcast of where we talk about

(00:21):
women in the movies. Yeah, that is exactly what it is,
and it's inspired by the Bechtel Test. You're not familiar
with that. It's yeah, throw yourself into a river, you'd
walk out the travel or or you can just learn
from us, because we're about to tell you that it's
a test that you apply to movies that requires that
there are two female characters. They speak to each other,

(00:44):
they have names, and their conversation cannot be about a man.
Do you want to do a demo really quick? I'd
love to. Okay, So here's an example of anything fast
the Bechtel test, Caitlin. Do you think that Meryl Streep
is happy? Jay? Me? I what is happiness? You know? Who?
Who am I to say whether or not Meryl Street

(01:06):
is happy? Meryl? Who? What did I say? Meryl Street
So that's an example of it past the Bactel test
because we didn't talk about a man. We talked about
a steamed actress, Meryl Street. But what if Meryl Street
is a man and I sucked it up? No, it's wrong.

(01:28):
There's she's well, Meryl Streep is a woman. We don't
know how they identify, right, we want to put Meryl
Street in the box. I wonder if Meryl Street is
seen Doubt. When are we gonna do a Doubt episode? Soon? Soon? Anyway?
So yeah, let's pretend that Meryl Street is a woman,

(01:50):
and the conversation definitely passed the Bectel tests. I've got
I'm about to break the Bantele test. I've got a
Mike's Harder lemonade in blood orange today. Yeah, it tastes
like tang with trash in it. It's good. It's good though,
it's good. Hey, do you want to have an episode?
I'd love to. Let's have an episode. Okay, let's introduce
our guest. He is a co creator and co star

(02:14):
of the upcoming show Corporate on Comedy Central. It's so good.
You can watch the first four ups. Now. It's Jake Wiseman.
Oh not too much. How about you loving the Meryl
Street stuff? Giggle a live stifle. If you're out there,

(02:38):
Meryl Street, find me on Twitter. Let's be friends. We'll
send you something. We don't have any merchandise to send
you something, it doesn't matter. We've got to get merch
I still have my hamsters corps in the freezer. I'll
send you that. Does anyone want that? Yeah, I've been
I've actually been struggling with what to do with it.
How often do you touch it once a day just
to check it? But it's in the But it's in

(03:00):
a bag, right, It's in a ball in a bag,
in a freezer, in a ball like a hamster ball. Oh,
it's in a ball in a bag, in a bag.
So that my roommates don't see that there's a hamster
corps in the freezer. Do they listen to this podcast? No?
I certainly don't. So now I have to design. I'm
torn between taxidermy and Hollywood Forever Cemetery. And I've been

(03:23):
putting it off for almost three weeks now, and I
don't know how much how long you can keep a
corpse in your freezer. Well, from experience, I'd say up
to a kidding. I don't know. No, I was really
on board for taxidermy, but then now now I don't
want my hamsters passing to be a joke. I loved her.

(03:45):
I kind of want to just bury her next to
Jea Jacobar, like my original plan with so what are
you gonna Are you gonna pay to bury? You're just
gonna go in there and just do it. Yeah, I
just need to find someone to go with me, and
I'll bring like a spoon and then just burrier somewhere
I'll go. Yeah, okay, come with fun. I think I'm busy,
but it sounds great. They're believable. No time specified. Okay, fine,

(04:07):
so what what are we? What's the podcast? We're talking
today about pulp fiction? This is wait, this is the
second was the first one you did? We did Kill Bill?
That was our first episode ever. Okay, yeah, alright, well
a woman is the lead of that. Yes, so this
is different. This is a little bit different. Tell us
when you first saw this or what your history with

(04:29):
this movie is. I think this movie came out If
I believe and so, I would have been eleven. I
do remember specifically when it came out. It was all
the rage. It was. It was a phenomenon. I remember
wanting to see it so badly and just pestering my
dad to see it, and he had already seen it.
Was everyone. I was talking about how great it was,
and he's like, we're going to the movies, but we
can't see pulp fiction. You're too young to see it.

(04:50):
We're going to see Nobody's Fool instead. Now Nobody's Fool
as a film starring Paul Newman and Melanie Griffith, and um,
I've seen it. It actually is a good movie. But
I was such a brat. I was an eleven year
year old prick and I was like, no, it's not fair.
You're not gonna let me see pulp fiction. I'm adult enough.
And I remember he took me to the He's like,
come on, we're going to the movies, and I was
in the backseat just whining. And we got to the

(05:12):
window and one of the best moments of my life.
I remember vividly, he goes to for pulp fiction and
I was like, oh my god, amazing long play. Now
here's the thing. I was definitely too young to see it,
and he made a mistake. He's a bad dad, and
that's why I'm so fucked up. But it was cool
to see it because it was so like, it was
such an incendiary movie. It changed filmmaking, it changed everything.

(05:36):
So that was my like, I do remember that moment,
and I've seen it, I think a hundred times. I
mean everyone's seen it a million times. It's just always on,
it's always talked about. It's like a cultural touchdown. Everyone's
trying to rip it off ever since it was like
fifty pulp fiction posters in any given college dorm building.
One of the issues with like a movie like that,
whether you let's say you love it, if you love

(05:58):
like a movie and it changes everything, the problem though,
is then every movie for the next twenty years is
a knockoff of that movie and it sucks. So that's
like the real problem with changing the game is just
like no one else can do it, but they're gonna
do it, and so that's annoying. Was that your first
rate at our movie? I don't think so. I like
kind of grew up fast Chott web six um and

(06:21):
just kind of every I've seen everything, I only watch our,
I've only seen ours. Wild that you probably saw The
Lion King and pulp fiction Yeah, I think I saw
what was the space Jam around that time. Yeah, I
mean fiction, it's brutal, like in rewatching it last night
just for this podcast, Like, oh this is this is insane,

(06:43):
this should be X. I think like this is like
a crazy thing. How could you explain this to anyone? Well,
the thing I feel like if a movie is rated
like n C seventeen or whatever, that's what you mean
by like I'm so old, I call it X. It
still sounds cooler. There's like bring back X. I feel
like a lot of X rated movies are rated that

(07:04):
way because there's some sort of there's like graphics sex
but usually not like hetero sex, a lot of well
and and just the idea that sex is like more
upsetting than violence. It's just like, what are we talking about? There?
There were on this view and because I haven't seen
this movie in a couple of years, there were entire large,
disturbing sections of this movie that I had totally forgotten about.

(07:28):
I had completely forgotten about the extended rape plot. Yeah,
with Marcela's who completely forgotten about it? Yeah, that was
jarring fully awake. Speaking of this movie, getting ripped off me,
I tell you about a student film that I made
that basically ripped off of pulp fiction. Yes please. It's
a roughly seven minutes short called Exchange centers around a

(07:52):
twenty dollar bill that has like an X marker, like
someone wrote an X with marker on the twenty dollar bill,
and it follows among all these different characters who each
have a certain vice, Like the one guy is like
a drug addict. They like roll it up and they
like use the twin dollar bill to snort cocaine. Another
one is like a gambling person or like a cheater.

(08:13):
I forget. Is it all the same dollar bill? Yes? Yeah,
but it connects all these characters and things like happen
out of chronological order. And I was just like, I'm
so fucking brilliant. You guys are making this stupid. Yeah,
I have not seen it in many years. I would
imagine it. We find it? Can we find? The director's
cut is on available for purchase on Amazon. Um No,

(08:36):
I have not put it on YouTube or anything like that.
I'm far too embarrassed for that. Got there's so much
embarrassing stuff just like buried out there. I have an
e book somewhere out there. It sucks that, like the
only way to do it now is to just be
so horrible in public and then you maybe get a
chance ten years later to do something good. Like that's
the only way to do anything is to be horrible,

(08:57):
but but for some reason need the validation and not
cared too much about the shame in an effort to
one day know what you're doing. But it's like horrible,
and all your horribleness is fully archived for the world
to kind when you get good at something. Yeah, I think,
Like I think also it's weird because I think a
large part of especially with filmmakers, there's this myth around
a lot of like male filmmakers like Kubrick and stuff,

(09:19):
where it's like they're perfect. That's not true. They just
didn't have YouTube, so they weren't like uploading the shitty
fucking student films they did. They were burning the negatives
of the stuffs that sucked and then only putting up
the stuff that worked, you know what I mean. And
now there's less of a myth. It's a lot of
just like, yeah, just be shitty and figure it out eventually,

(09:39):
Like that's what it is. Wouldn't it be amazing if
we had the option and like a filmography thing for
something to be parentheses lost, because that's like, yeah, that's
like the first couple of years of so many famous directors.
They're like, oh, we don't we don't know it's done.
It's like it probably was just bad and someone disposed
of it. If only that were an option. Well, I
definitely take down all my old danda videos of like

(10:01):
really dumb shout I've said, and fully there be found anyway.
So um, let's do it. Jamie. You've seen this movie
once before. What's your history with it. I've seen this movie.
I think this was maybe my third time seeing it.
I don't know. I mean, I'm late to every movie.
I've seen doubt five hundred times in every other movie once. Um,

(10:24):
I saw this movie in I want to say, maybe
late high school with some friends and everyone thought was
so fucking cool. And then I saw it again in college,
same deal. And I saw it last night and this
is like, I like this movie. I don't have any
particular attachment to it, but I like it. Sure. Yeah, yeah,
I saw it for the first time I think in
high school as well. I remember going to the video

(10:46):
store and being like, there are certain movies that I
just need to see because I was like, I'm going
to be a film major, I have to have seen
these movies. And I went and I rented Fargo, Pulp Fiction,
and The Princess Bride, three movies I had never seen before,
and I watched them. I was like, yeah, that was
like they were right, these movies are pretty good. Who's they?

(11:07):
You know? They? It was listical on the Guardian dot com.
There was one point where, Yeah, I would just like
look up lists that people I had heard of had
like made of things that they liked. I'm like, well,
I'll just go look at that and then spiral out
from there, which is like a misguided but sort of
effective way when you're very young to I think it's
a great way to do it. Yeah. I think it's

(11:28):
like the only I feel like everything I read or
watch is just interviews with people who make stuff. They're
also do that. Yeah, like that's kind of it. Like
I don't really know how else to do it because
I don't trust. I think sometimes when you take opinions
from good friends, there's a real danger there because a
lot of people that are smart have terrible taste, Like
they're just not not smart about entertainment, and you're like,

(11:50):
once you know what they like, Like, I'm having a
personal problem with people liking three billboards outside having Missouri,
and it's so horrible and I'm losing friendships. Like like
it's like I don't I don't want to know what
friends like. I just want to know what the cool
people like and then I then at least I will
be hurt when we disagree. You know, feel free to
go on your three boboard tiraded and we can talk

(12:10):
about that there. Yeah. I mean, my whole, like my
whole formative years were writing down anything that was mentioned
in this series of Unfortunate events books and then just
going to locate them. But it was actually very helpful,
and I like found out a lot of stuff that
I like and know about now because of those those
little books. All right, that's good. How cute? I like

(12:32):
those better than pulp fiction. Okay, sure, I'm gonna go home.
How would I do a recap of I'll fiction Caitlyn's recap.
So this is a movie in which the events do
not happen in chronological order. Are all this thing happens,
and then this thing happens, But then we flash it's
a whole thing, so bear in mind. So we start

(12:55):
out on a couple who are in a dire and die.
I cannot fucking talk to them to die. Meryl Street
is on Diner Street, so the movie diner Um. So
they're in a diner and they announced this is a robbery.
Then we cut to John, Hey, guys, actually this is

(13:19):
a robber, Actually a robbery. I know you thought I
know you though, you're just like dancing up PoCA. The
guns are real and we want you. We're still going
to pay for the meal, Okay. So then we cut
to John Travolta and Samuel and Jackson and they're talking
about Royal's with cheese. They're chatting, they're having a conversation. Yeah,

(13:44):
they're like, Wow, six minutes of dialogue equals revolutionary, pretty
amazing stuff. So they go to these people's apartment on
behalf of their boss, Marcellus Wallace, who is some sort
of organized crime mobster type of st bad element, right,
and they're there to collect a briefcase that's full of

(14:05):
light bobs. We don't know it's a mcguffin, And they
are trying to get the briefcase from these people who
have totally fucked over Marcella's Wallace, and then um John
Travolta and Samuel Jackson, whose character's names are Vincent Vega
and Jules win Field went Street win Street, Uh, they

(14:27):
shoot them up, and then we meet Butch played by
Bruce Willis. He's a boxer. We meet Marcella's Wallace and
he's like he basically gives him money to fix a fight.
And then this is a fun scene because Vincy Vega
and Jules wind Field slash wind Street show up in
different clothes when we saw them in before, and we're like,
what is this all about? Like, wait, is this perhaps

(14:47):
non linear? Oh my god? The phone. Then vince Vega
goes and buys heroin from Eric Stolt's. Then he takes
me and Wallace pretty straight. That part was just a documentary.
It's just bad writing. He got yeah, he got let

(15:09):
go of Back to the Future. He was the original dude.
He was supposed to be Marty McFly and they shot
most of the movie with him, and then he got
recast because he just he was just serious. He was
and you just shouldn't do that. He succeeded too hard.
People were threatened. So then Vincent Vega takes out Mia
Wallace played by Uma Thurman, which is Marcellis Wallace takes

(15:32):
out literally takes out for fun, for fun, not in
a murdering way. They go out dancing, They go to dinner,
it's a great time. They go back to her house.
She finds the heroine that he had bought in his pocket.
She starts at thinking it is cocaine. Then she o
d s and he has to go deal with that.
They go back to Eric Stoltz's house and she gets

(15:54):
an adrenaline shot. Then we cut to young Butch receiving
him but maybe that's my SoundCloud wrapper name. He receives
his dad's watch from Christopher Walking. He's like, your dad
hit this up his asshole for five years and now
I'm giving it to you, which is a great plot.

(16:15):
The whole time we were watching Chris Walking in this movie,
which he first of all made fun of me for
calling him Chris Walking. Yeah, Christie, it was actually goes
by Christie. Is he Chris Walking down the street? Christie?
He's yeah in Meryl Street. Okay. I was like, wait,
where are we connecting it? Um? I was just thinking

(16:36):
about his his scene in Julie the whole time I
was watching his scene. How many movies is Christopher walking in?
For exactly one scene? And actually the only two movies
he's ever been in. He's never been in any other movies.
Try to think of another one. Can you tell me things?
I believe it? It's not good there go back and

(16:58):
rewatch Christopher walkin scene and Julie he doesn't. She has
no idea he's in the movie. He thinks he's just
a visiting. They're just like, hey, do you want to
just talk to ben Affleck for like four minutes? And
he does. He's holding a cup from Crafty. He's holding
like a cup with a pattern on it, and he's

(17:19):
just in a suit. And it's like he thinks he's visiting.
He doesn't know he's he's never heard of that movie before.
No one has what happened to Natalie? Would Christopher walkin?
Tell us? He knows? He definitely huh, Anyway, what's happening
in the movie. So then we flash forward to adult Butch,

(17:40):
which is my rapper name, and were again old Butch
is a pretty good name. But closes at the show, Yeah,
I have an uncle away, I've talked about every time
I talk about my uncle Butch on the show, you
edit it out because he's a criminal. He's a con artist,
shot out to my con artist uncle. But okay. So

(18:04):
then in the next scene, we flash forward to adult
Butch and it's right after his boxing match and he
has not fixed the match like he promised he would.
He instead kills his opponent and he's fine with it,
and he runs away and he gets in this cab
where this woman's like, tell me what it's like to
kill a man? As Morelda, right, that's her name, feminist

(18:29):
icon as Morelda, because all she wants to all she
cares about is what it's like to kill men. Yeah,
I am on board, and it's like, yeah, go for it.
Find out, just turn back and snap Bruce's neck. Figure
it out. So then Butch goes to his girlfriend and
they ready to run away, but she's like, funk, I
forgot your watch and he's like, you stupid bitch, how

(18:51):
could you forget my father's watch? He flips it tastes
like you forgot the ass watch and he's mad. So um.
He goes by to his apartment, but Vincent Vegas, they're
ready to kill him and he finds his gun and
he shoots Vincent, and Vincent is dead now, and we're like,
wait a second, is this linear? Are we gonna see

(19:13):
this guy? What? I don't know? Then Bot runs into
Marcella's Wallace, who he had just fucked over for not
fixing the fight, and then they have this whole fight
where they like you like, runs Marcella's over with a car.
They end up in a pawn shop. Kathy Griffin is
did you see the Kathy Griffin fami? I'm sorry, but
when he when Marcellus Wallace wakes up and all the

(19:36):
like people are there with the person who talked to him,
is Kathy Griffin? Really? Yeah? The red haired help me.
He was crazy. It was over there all testified for you.
That's Kathy Griffin. Wow. Wow, I'm altered. That's excited. Didn't
mean interrupt, but that's a very Oh. I gotta find
that screenshot post haste. So they end up in a

(20:00):
pawn shop, bunch of Marcelli's and they're like scuffling, and
the pawn shop owners like, hang on a minute, let
me take you down to this sex dungeon. Sorry, we
were just looking at a screen again. That's quite all right,
I was just talking about a sex dungeon. So she
looks great. So this cop shows up. He gets a
gimp out of a cage and they're like, okay, time

(20:23):
for me to rape you. And then they that's my
new race. When you said that, I saw it as
time than the number four me the number two rape you.
That's how I thought it was a fully green, classic

(20:49):
green not to make light of rape. Okay, So buch
of Marcella's get all tied up. Marcella's gets raped by
this horrible rapist cop and then Butch is like, actually,
I'm going to fight my way out of this. So
he undoes his bondage. He has a sword, does he not?
He goes up because he's about to lead, punches the gimp.

(21:09):
He runs away and he's like, wait a minute, I
can't just let Marcellus suffer this horrible fate. So he
gets a sword from the punch up, goes back downstairs,
slices people up, fights for the cop, gets his dick
shot off in my favorite scene in the movie, and
then Marcellis and Butcher like we're cool. Then we cut

(21:33):
to Vincent and Juels at the apartment that we saw
them at before. Whoa this hoff? It's sure, isn't. This
isn't what I'm used to. So right another person who
he had not seen before comes out shoots at them
but misses, and then Jules has this like religious experience

(21:54):
where he's like, Wow, what a miracle. I'm going to
leave this life of organized crime and just like be
a nice boy. And then they take this guy Marvin
with I'm going to leave this life of organized crime
and be a nice boy. My name is Jules. So

(22:15):
they take this guy Marvin with him there in the car.
What if we made every person who had committed a
crime say, in a court of a lot, I'm going
to be a nice boy now. I know I missed up,
but I'm going to be a nice boy. Now a
girl or turn a non binary person, you know, all

(22:38):
everyone has to say nice boy. Okay. So they take
this guy Marvin who was at the apartment with them,
and because I guess they're all pals, and then Vincent
accidentally blows his head off with his gun. So then
they have to go to this guy Jimmy's house played
by our good friend Quentin Tarantino. I'm going to second
Quentin Tarantino, and then they call this guy Winston Wolf

(23:02):
Harvey Kitel and they're like, help us clean this up.
And they're like covered in blood from cleaning out the
all the crap out of the car. Then they have
to put on these different clothes. Whoa, those are the
clothes we saw them in a scene earlier in the
movie what And then Jules and Vincent go to a
diner for breakfast, the same one that we saw the
couple in at the very beginning of the movie. We

(23:23):
come full circles. We have done. Then there in the
middle of the robbery, and then basically Jules is like,
don't take this briefcase. It does not belong to you.
It's for my boss. He loves light bulbs. And then
he's just like, don't be be a nice boy. Basically
he's like being a nice boy. Don't be a robber,
be a nice boy. By And that's the end of
the movie, A nice boy by cut to credits. So

(23:48):
that is the story. Good recap, good recap. Thank you
did it. You did it, We all did it. It
was a group effort. Now now, now now that we
have that out of the way, what shall we discuss, Well,
we shall discuss the representation and portrayal of women. Well,

(24:09):
given that I apparently forgot large swaths of this movie.
There are a lot of female characters in this movie.
There are there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot
to talk about. None of them are apart from me
A Wallace, I would argue none of them are main characters.
I would say most of them are more secondary or
even tertiary. Um, so hardly any of them have any

(24:30):
sort of influence in the story. In fact, I was
thinking about like how crucial women are to the story,
and what the female characters do to contribute to the
story and influence like the direction that the story takes.
Because in a movie like this, where there's like an
ensemble cast, it's really sort of hard to discern who
is the protagonist because there's like these little vignettes and
they're all connected. I would argue, no one main character. Okay,

(24:55):
so I think then it is safe to assume that
any actor in the movie could do something that would
significantly impact the story. However, all of the female characters
we see, none of them really do it in a
way that moves the story forward, or if they do,
it's a mistake they've made that the men have to correct.
For example, so we've got me and Wallace accidentally snorting

(25:18):
the heroine thinking it's cocaine, and Vincent has to take
her to his drug dealer to get the shot of
adrenaline so she doesn't odee and die. In other words,
she makes a mistake that a man has to fix.
So that actually watching at this time through was kind
of because I need the basic plot points. I knew
that she did that eventually, but the scenes leading up
to that, she is so in control and she's so active,

(25:40):
and then kind of at that moment when she makes
this mistake, she is like kind of damseled right away,
and um, all the action she's taken is sort of
totally back pedaled on and she I mean, yeah, women
are mostly reacting in this story, they're not pushing it.
What's interesting thing about that, because I was I've never

(26:01):
watched it from this perspective, because it's a movie based
in just entertainment. Like, it's clear Quentin Tarantino doesn't give
a shit about issues, right, He's just like he's trying
to entertain you. And that's part of the problem with
some of his movies. Or maybe all of them. But
it was interesting about the Mia Wallace thing. I was
thinking about it and I was like, oh, well, she's
introduced as Marcellus's wife, so that's like how she's introduced

(26:23):
as a wife, right. But she is such a bold,
strong character. Her haircut is just cool as ship. She's
very like, you know, she's leaving the conversation. She like
tells him too, as you were saying, Jamie, like she
tells him like you think of something to say, you know,
she's very active, and then she's like, I want to dance.
Let's dance. And also when when Vincent comes into her place,
she's like do this, do that? You know what I mean,

(26:45):
she's bossing him around, and she's picked the restaurant, she's
made the reservation, like she's five dollar shake. Yeah. But
I will say the thing about the heroine is it
is a man fixing the mistake. But also she takes
his drugs. She like takes what's not hers, which she
is active. I mean, I don't know what that means necessarily,
but she does sort of like move it forward with

(27:07):
like it wasn't necessarily a bad choice. It was just
like a genuine mistake. Because the powder is white, right right. Yeah.
I don't know the intricacies of the Bechdel test, so
I will learn a lot as we speak. But I
was but I guess it is him cleaning up that mess.
But it felt that felt the most okay with a
female character because she at the end still I feel

(27:29):
like she still had the ability to like funk Vincent
over if she told Marcella's But then she was like,
but then she would die basically if she told him, right,
which he didn't totally believe. There's like that exchange they
have after she has revived, and you know, she's like, well,
I'm not going to tell him because I'd be sucked
over too, and he's like, well, you wouldn't be as
fucked over as I would. But she very well made
because at this point we haven't met Marcel's. We don't

(27:50):
know what kind of person he is, so what so
what do you What I was curious about there was
what do you think would have happened to her that
she did the drugs? Like that was the problem that
she's a drug addict and he wouldn't like that. I mean,
I got the impression that he probably knew that she
was using drugs. I mean, they're into all sorts of
you know, like illicit behaviors. But for me, my immediate

(28:14):
instinct and it's not really followed up on, but I
thought it was because she did it with a man,
and like there there's like some sort of well he
Marcella paid Vincent to take her out and show her
a good time, basically quote unquote fucked up, even though
it was kind of out of both of their control. Right,

(28:34):
So yeah, it's sort of like we can presume that
like that Marcella's was like take care of her, make
sure she's safe while I'm gone, because she needs looked after,
because you're a man and she's a woman and she
needs protection. But which is why he's doing that in
the first place, right, right, right, But well, yeah, so
the way me and Wallace is introduced, like you said,

(28:55):
Jules and Vincent are talking about her, and they have
that whole conversation about this guy being thrown out of
window because he gave her a foot massage. So like
we hear about this character. I think the point of
the conversation is to maybe show how much of a
force to be reckoned with Marcellus Wallace I think definitely
more like because she's the possession that no one can

(29:17):
funk with, which basically just objectifies her. She's introduced as
the wife, right right, right, but I think to be
the wife of this man Marcella's, and Marcella's is a
very intense character. He's like, you know, immediately legendary because
also like the way he's introduced, it's not even on him.
You don't even see him the way he's introduced. You
hear his voice, you're just looking at Bruce wellis his

(29:38):
head and the back of his head. It's like the
what the mark of the beast or something like that?
Is that what the band aid is? I always thought
that's what it was because it's connected to like the
thing that was in the suitcase, which I feel like
it's a human soul or something, and like, but I
think the band aid is supposed to be. That's where
you like the devil Enters or some bullshit like that.
That's like something that there's some reason why there's a
band aid there and then know about that sort of method.

(29:59):
But he's like, you know, this really intense character, So
you're like yeah, and like if you're like a drug
underlordd or overlord. Why would correct because it's like the underworld,
but you're an overlord, the overlord of the underworld. But yeah,
it's interesting because like that woman is never gonna be

(30:21):
if it's a male like drug peddler, it's probably not
going to be like like he's going to be stronger
than the female character most of the time, right, Like,
so she's like a kept woman to some degree. Right,
But I mean, I think that that's like an interesting
writing choice that's made in this movie. And again it's
hard to tell, especially with like early Quentin Tarantino, how

(30:43):
intentionally it's actually done. But it's like we do first
year about Mia Wallace as basically the property of Marcella
that you do not funk with. But then we meet
her and we do learn more about her background. We
learned that she was an actress Wheeler. There's more depth
to her, and she's very open and she takes control
of the situation. And that was kind of like a
fun or interesting inversion of getting to know a character

(31:06):
that is introduced to us as property. But then the well,
the scene I want to talk about that that really
bugged me when we were watching it was when she
does overdose, and then John Travolta brings her to Eric
Stulton's hounds, where there are god I don't know what
their names are, but they have names. That scene bugged

(31:27):
me because I was like, in any like in any
realistic world, the two women in that scene would have
resolved that problem and way faster than John Travolta and
Eric Stults would have and watching them sidelined in that
scene those frustratustrated me because and they were intentionally sidelined
for whatever reason, but like they are at least Eric Stults,

(31:51):
I think girl friend in that scene his wife, his wife.
She is in the background of the era Seine watching
it happened very passively, and I don't know like that
she's sort of well, she's like kind of screaming, and
Eric Stultz's character, she's sort of depicted as a shrewd,
but like, why did you bring her here? Like very

(32:13):
just like nagging and screaming and combative and just difficult
to deal with. And then her friend Trudy is like,
for sure, very passive, to the point where she's literally
just sitting on the couse. Yeah, like she's like team
there is I thought I did think that like watching
it this time, like because that wasn't the first time
I was in arquettes in the movie, She's in it

(32:34):
the first time he goes there to buy the heroine
and she is like, she's a wife, and then for
no real reason, Eric Stults is just kind of a
piece of ship to her, you know what I mean,
Like he's just kind of like fuck you. There was
a really cool moment though, in the Senior were just
talking about when they stabbed Mia Wallace's heart with adrenaline
where it made me laugh so hard this time where

(32:54):
just before like John Trabalta is holding up the ajournalist
Ari stoltis county three and there's a shot of Rosanna
ar Kid's face where she's like almost like sexually interested
in the moment, you know what I mean, She's like
And that was cool because I was like, that's an
active choice for her to just be like a fucking
crazy pervert kind of. And I did enjoy that part
where I was like, Okay, at least she's like a

(33:16):
sick oh, you know what I mean, I didn't even
notice that. It's really funny. It made me. I was
watching with the female friend and we both laughed really
hard about it. It was just like it was just
like kind of random but funny. Yeah, it was like,
I'm gonna see some ship right now. Also, in Eric
Stiltson Rosanna Arquette's house, there's a board game called Chauvinist Pigs.

(33:36):
Really in the back of a shot a lot of
board games there. There's yeah, it's funny. Yeah that when
he's looking for the for the black medical book that
he's screaming about for a good portion of that scene there,
he walks past this board game called Chauvin's Pigs. Didn't
notice that either. Again, it's like, well, probably not an
intentional choice, but I enjoyed it. Sure, um so I

(33:57):
want to go back to me Wallace. So she is
initially framed as like this person who's talked about but
not seen as like, oh, the property of this bad
guy who's scary and you don't want to funk with her,
touch her fee because I'll throw you out of a
window sort of thing. And then we do meet her,
and like you said, she's kind of she's got a
lot of autonomy. She's kind of bossing him around, like
go make yourself a drink, do this, do that, take

(34:19):
me out, I want to dance, making choices, and we
also see her she has a personality unlike so many
female characters we encounter in so many movies, where we
can get a sense of who she is as a person.
I would argue the most memorable character from that movie,
Like I think in pop culture, she's on the she's
on the poster. Yeah, And I think she's the one

(34:40):
that I think about, like her hair cut and her eye,
like you subjects, and I think they're kind of tied
for first yeah, yeah, which is great. And and when
you sort of pit them against each other in terms
of screen time, it's all the more impressive because she's
not in the movie a ton. It's more Slay the
Top path that she was the only other time she's

(35:02):
in the movie is when she's like in a bathing suit,
just catering to her husband by the pool. You ever
that I wasn't sure if that was her. You almost
don't realize it's her, um, but she's just like the wife.
I just thought maybe that was another woman that, like
a side loves his wife. I think he loves his wife.
I think, yeah, I think he does. I don't know,

(35:22):
he just does not how to show it but then say, no,
he's got to learn he's in the salt victim, right,
it's true or Marsalis. But the other thing I want
to say about that scene in the restaurant is that
Mia dispels the rumor that a guy was thrown out
of a window because he touched her feet. She's like,
do you really believe that? Like that's absurd, and whether

(35:46):
or not we if it happened that way, because she
she could easily be lying and being like that, well
that's crazy, because it is crazy, but she at least
stands up for herself. I also thought one of the
cool lines about that because that that scene was really
interesting where she goes the only time he ever touched
me was when he shook my hand at my wedding,

(36:06):
which I thought was a very like that was cool.
That was like a very intentional choice because it could
have been a huge but that was a power move. Yeah,
that was great. I don't know. I mean that whole
conversation she's completely in, like John Travolta is like in
her hands entirely, Like she steers that conversation entirely, and

(36:27):
also like it sounds like she doesn't even know exactly
what happened. The comment she makes about when men talk
about things it's like a sewing circle. That was like
a really fun line in that particular exchange where she's
you know, directly taking a rude comment usually directed at
women and saying it to John TRAVLTA great loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(36:48):
What she says is when you little scamps get together,
you're worse than a sewing circle. I love the use
of the word scamps. Yeah, and then scams can be
thrown in I'm there good. So then following that scene
in restaurant, they go back to her house, she invites
Vincent Vega and and he is like, I gotta go
to the bathroom and talk myself out of trying to

(37:08):
fuck her, because that's clearly what he wants to do.
That's clear what what I think he thinks she wants
to do. And that's how like how I read that
was because there's that moment where like they're at the door,
she's in control, it's her night, you know what I mean,
and like he I think clearly wants to sleep with her.
She's portrayed as this like sexual you know, she's like impressive. Yeah,

(37:29):
and it's just like she's cool and like she's in charge.
But I thought, you know, there's that moment where they're
in the door and they're looking at each other's eyes,
and he's like, is that what you call an uncomfortable silence?
And she's like, I don't know what that was, you know,
I don't know what you'd call that. So I feel
like she's like, you're gonna stick around, We're gonna do this.
I think she wants that. I don't think she's gonna
fuck him, but I did feel like she wants to
be flirted with, you know what I mean, Like she

(37:49):
wants that attention whatever she's not getting from Marcellus, because
why the fund isn't he taking her out? You know
what I mean? I still felt like I think he
felt like I want to do this, but I obviously
should didn't. But I did feel like I still felt
like she was guiding that. Possibly, I'm more interpreted as
like they were hanging out. She's all high, un coke,

(38:10):
they're drinking, and he has to be like, well, I
have an opportunity, possibly, but I'm not going to act
on it because that would be a betrayal. Of trust
to my boss Marcellus. So he's like talking to himself
in the mirror for who knows how long long enough,
but yeah, he's like but he's like, you're just gonna
go home and jerk off and just go to bed.
And then he comes out and she has already snorted

(38:31):
the heroine and then he has to like jump to
action to go save her. I interpreted that scene as
she was manipulating him a little bit, a little bit
for attention, but also just because she has known the
whole night that he'll basically do whatever she tells him
to do, because throughout the night she you know, wants
to compete in this dance competition. He's like, okay, we'll

(38:52):
do it. She's like, think of something to say. He's like, okay,
I'll do it. So she's I think at the beginning
that seems still fully in control. And then to me,
that scene where more gn Tribles is talking to himself
for forty five minutes is like him trying to convince
himself that he's the one in control and he's the
one who's going to make the choice, like am I
going to fuck her? I have to decide what I'm

(39:13):
going to do when it's sort of made clear that
entire sequence that he's not the person who's in control
of he's kind of like a dork there. Yeah, that's
kind of made to be a dork where she's just
like That's why I thought it's interesting because he doesn't
have to save her, but he's not very good at it,
like he kind of like he barely does it. But
I just thought it was such an active choice for

(39:33):
her to steal his drugs like this is mine. And
that leans into like the whole manipulative thing too, of like, oh, well,
why you're like trying to talk yourself out of thinking
that you could fuck me if you wanted to, which
who knows she takes his stuff? Yeah, and then the
power dynamic shifts, and that's I don't know, it's it's
interesting in a story perspective. I mean, I think the

(39:54):
main takeaway is that it's impressive that we see a
female character with a personality who's st taken control of
the situation that they're in that night where you know,
they're kind of out on the town, but she's sort
of the alpha of that whole interaction. Um, so there's
just something we so rarely see that. It was kind
of refreshing. She just is so good, Like she's just

(40:16):
such a good actor. It was just awesome. I mean,
she's you can't take your eyes out. What I also
liked about her character was like it wasn't just cool,
Like what I was thinking about this time was like
she's a failed actor. Like she's kind of has like
a weird personality, you know what I mean, Like she's
not she's cool and she like has her thing, but
she's kind of not like she's a failure and she's
kind of like some of the things she said, like

(40:38):
she she reacts a little more excitedly than most cool
characters would, like she's just kind of she's like a
drug addict, failed actor and I but she was still
in control, and I thought that was a really cool
way to portray someone. Like I was kind of impressed
by how not like she is cool, but she's like
like I remember when she was responding about like I
can't promise you that. If a more stereotypical man were

(40:59):
writing her, be like I can't promise you that, you
know what I mean. But she's like, I can't promise
you that. Like it was more like quirky, which I
thought was cool. Well that might just be her. I
don't know if that's more the writing or more just
sort of her choice as an actor. Hard to say, Man,
it's great, especially now watching this movie. I mean like, wow, no, Uma,
Thurwin's just threatening to shoot Harvey Wins, you know the

(41:21):
time on Instagram. It's great. I love it the whole
This whole time, I was like, she just she threatened
to shoot Harvy Wines. Dude, that's so cool. Yeah. Yeah,
Like I said, we're just so used to seeing very flat,
one dimensional female characters that were like, it's pretty cool
to be like, oh, she's she's got more than one dimension.
And the TV show that she was in, the pilot, Flour,

(41:44):
sounds pretty cool. Like a show that I would want
to watch Foxforce five. It's about five cool women being bad.
I mean it probably wouldn't be great, but I want
to see Tarantino make that movie for Yeah, And she
has a sense of humor at the end of it,
where after she's odeed and nearly died, she's like, hey,

(42:07):
let's maybe just forget about this. I want to hear
that joke that I refused to tell you before. And
He's like sure, and then she tells the dumb catchup
joke and we all laughed. But we're te heing. And
she's not the only female character in this movie who
we see some semblance of personality from, because I would
say that Fabian has a pretty we only see a

(42:30):
little sliver of her in this movie. She's only in
two scenes, but but those scenes are so good. It's
in a more macro sense, it sucks that her presence
doesn't have more bearing on the plot. And I would
say that for almost every female character in this movie,
with the exception of Mia, where it's like their actual
effect on the plot, like we're talking about, is not huge,

(42:51):
but her presence in the movie is so great. Well
so like Me and Wallace, where if you are oversimplifying things,
her main contribution to the actual maybe not the characterization
of the story, but the events of this story is
that she takes the drugs by accident almost odees and
it's a problem that a male character has to fix.

(43:13):
Similar thing happens with Fabian Fabian Fabian Fabian street Um.
She forgets Bruce Willis is like heirloom watch the but
and has to he so he has to go back
and get it, and it almost gets him killed. It

(43:35):
gets him in this like crazy almost he gets raped
situation to kill people. So because of her mistake that
he has to fix. That's her main contribution again to
the events of the story, not to the characterization of
the movie, because she does have an interesting character who

(43:57):
has a personality, again something that we're not used to
see in movies for a female character to have a personality.
But I just couldn't help but notice of the female
characters who do things that influence the direction this story
takes in a significant way. Both of them can be
boiled down to a female character making a mistake and
a man having to fix it. I would also argue

(44:17):
that the Amanda Plumber, who I believe it's Amanda Plumber,
the one who is Tim Roth's wife. Um, she kind
of is bad at her thing too, Like I think
she's not great at being a robber, you know what
I mean. She kind of needs his guidance, So I
was almost she doesn't necessarily funk up, but she's she

(44:38):
needs hit Like in a similar way, I would say
is like needs the male counterparts guidance to kind of
is relying on him to fix it right, because she
seemed kind of like a loose cannon where she might
she so such a good actor, like I was like, oh,
you are so funny and so good. But yeah, I think, yeah,
she's a little clearly mentally ill. Yeah it's true. There.

(44:58):
I I struggled with the with the last scene with her,
in the last scene in particular, where yeah, I was like, oh, man,
of course you know, of the two, she's the one
to funk up or like show some sort of weakness,
and I do I do. I feel like that choice
had to be intentional to some extent, even if it
was just like instinct on a male renter's part to
have the female character funk up. But then there's like

(45:21):
all these themes, especially with Bruce Willis's character in this movie,
where the whole ass Watch thing is all about this,
like it's this whole masculinity plot where he's trying to
get his father's war heirloom. He you know, doesn't have
a war to fight, and that's the whole you know,
where it's Jed X the nineties very whatever. He's fighting

(45:44):
wars in the boxing ring. He's fighting his own battle,
all right, But but that like masculine heirloom is so
important to him that he will cut down fucking whoever
to get his dad's ass watch instead of oh, I
don't know, letting it go like so I don't know.
I mean, all the characters in this movie are very flawed,

(46:06):
to the point where it was frustrating to see Amanda
Plumber's character funk up at the end. But I feel
like I felt that because we hadn't seen enough women
on screen at all for there to be like we
see male characters sunk up constantly in this movie. That's
like not an issue, but there's just like not enough
female characters with bearing on the plot that we see

(46:28):
funk up so that it feels equal, right. The really
interesting thing I thought about Fabian was watching at this time.
There's actually a bunch of things I thought that were
very interesting about that relationship. One was when they're hooking up,
she's like, will you go down to me? And he's like,
will you kiss it? And she goes, basically, if you
eat me first, So it was a really great talk

(46:50):
about consent. And it was also like she's like, you
make me come first, which I think is great. I
thought that was really cool because he's like, he's a boxer,
you know what I mean, Like he's like a meathead.
So I thought that was cool. But I also thought, oh,
knowing me that, like she was like giving me oral pleasure,
and he's like, well you because it not agreeing to
what she asked, but immediately being like, well only if

(47:12):
you took my dick also, and she has to be like,
but you first, because I asked you first, or like,
I don't know that exchange in general, I don't know.
I thought that was very much a relationship exchange. I mean,
I understand what you're saying, Like, I get it if
it was. But like I was like, at least she like,
if that had been reversed, that would have been a
huge problem. Whereas I thought this was at least a

(47:32):
boxer going down on a tiny woman. I was like, okay,
like good boxers are giving oral pleasure. This is a
step forward. Um. The other interesting thing I thought I
was watching with a female friend and so I asked
her about it, and we were talking about this, and
I'm very curious how you feel when he gets mad
about the watch, you know what I mean. Like, so

(47:53):
that was a really interesting scene, I thought, So he
gets mad. He starts yelling. She goes in the corner
of the room, right where like the wall, at the table,
like the lampion. I thought, he throws a TV. Right,
he throws a TV, but not at her. He throws
a TV at a rage. He's a rageful boxer, so
he throws a TV. But was So that's like bad, obviously,

(48:13):
But then what I thought was interesting, and that's what
I asked my friend. He sits on that chair, and
you know what, it's my fault. I didn't accurately tell
you you did your best. I didn't tell you how
important it was to me, and like, I'm sorry, I
just gotta go. Don't worry about So he has a
rage flip out. He liked it has some sort of aggression.
You could call it violence if you want. I don't
think it was directed at her necessarily, but maybe. And

(48:37):
then he's like, I'm sorry. And then in the car
he's he's like, how could you not you know what's
important to me? But but I thought it was interesting
because their relationship was very I thought bizarrely charming because
it was sort of like almost stereotypical and the way
that but there was real love there. I thought it
was the most love in the whole movie in a way,

(48:59):
and I thought my friend was like, you know what,
he apologized immediately, and it was kind of interesting where
he was like really aggressive and but he clearly really
loved her and he did apologize immediately, and for someone
who is such a probably like an alt right weirdo,
I thought it was And so I thought it was
just interesting for him to to have him apologize immediately.

(49:22):
And I thought that was like, I don't know if
it has to do with the Bechdel test, but it
has something to do with like how a relationship should work,
you know what. I mean, you make this mistake and
then you But I don't know. I was he has
a snap reaction. I mean I could have done without him,
you know, throwing a TV to the point where she's
so scared for her safety that she cowers into this crying.

(49:42):
Seeing that, seeing her default to a corner, I'm like,
this is maybe not the first time this has happened.
If she has an instinct to retreat to a corner
where it's like, if that's the first time that's happening,
it just didn't seem like the first time. I shared
that had happened, but then when we him dial back,
I mean it's hard because also they're fictional. We don't know,

(50:05):
no one truly knows. He also does flirt with Esmeralda.
He does see is a little bit of like a brute. Well,
all the men in this movie, I think that speaks
to the like hyper masculinity of all the men we
see in this movie. Like there's no I mean except
for maybe Eric Stolts. Like all the main characters are
like non sexual characters. They're just like dripping with like

(50:27):
toxic hyper masculinity. And sure that's what the movie is about.
Their job. They're you know, all kind of you know,
these like bad criminal, you know, boxer gun slinging type
of guys. But it's hard for me to watch movies
like that nowadays, just to see so much hyper masculinity
and have it be celebrated and have people I love
this movie so much. And whereas of the women in

(50:50):
the movie, if there was more of a balance, if
some of those like scary characters were women, Like if
one of the hit people was a woman in there,
it just like struck more of a balance, it would
be easier for me to watch, but now I'm just
like so over this like celebration of hyper masculinity that
I'm like that being said, this movie does a better
job than a lot of them, especially because it kind

(51:12):
of almost created it, like it created this run of
like hypers. It's like for it too, because what I
said at the beginning of the podcast was like I
truly feel like Quentin Tarantino doesn't give a funk about
big issues, Like so when he's writing this movie, he's
definitely not like his writing of Mia Wallace, He's not
trying to be amenable to feminism. He's just trying to

(51:32):
write a character you haven't seen before. He's like a
film nerd who wants to see something you haven't seen before.
I don't think he's writing it because he thinks men
should do this and women should, you know what I mean.
Like he's just like he like he is like a movie.
He's like all he is is like a movie. So
he's just shooting out a movie that he wants to
see because he wants to be cool. Like it's called
pulp fiction because it's based in all these sort of
like it's like there's a boxer, there's hitman, it's like

(51:53):
based in these like fifty cent novels, you know, And
so I think he more cares about entertainment than anything.
I don't think he gives a fuck. It's like that's
why he uses the N word. It's so awful. But
he's like, I'm not racist, Like he doesn't He's not
even really thinking about it, you know what I mean.
He's trying to be cool and he's a man, so
he can't understand like any issues. And so I think
it's it's it's hard because you have to judge the

(52:15):
movie based on what it is. But he seems like
a crazy sort of person who isn't even really interacting
in society. But you know what I mean. I mean,
that's a bad excuse. In two thousands, it's definitely a
bad excuse. You don't know, it's not an excuse. I
just mean when I think about him, I don't think
he has a funk. I don't think he gives a ship,
you know what I mean. And especially when this movie

(52:35):
is being made, this like I feel like with and
when we'll do more Tarantino movies in the future, his
movies with time become more intentional. It's hard to trace
intent with this movie where it does just seem like, oh,
this is cool, this is something I like, Yeah, like
you're saying something I would like to see, and you

(52:56):
get a very interesting movie with a lot of stuff
you haven't seen before it as a result. But then
the trade off is like it kind of becomes hard
to analyze because it's like a lot of times we
see movies where women are either being sidelined or mistreated
very intentionally because whatever the reason may be, and this
is just like hard to tell what the intention for

(53:16):
almost anything is other than this seems cool. Yeah, I
think it. It's like what's interesting about this movie too.
It's like a very small budget in movie, you know
what I mean, Like it's it's it's one of the
most popular movies ever, but it became this phenomenon, so
I think it became very influential, probably in a pretty
negative way to enhancing toxic masculinity. But it was more

(53:39):
he was just trying to like be cool. I feel
like I think he wasn't thinking, like at least that's
just what I get from him, where he's like he's
reversing tropes to some degree just in what he's doing
and sometimes yeah, or like someone getting shot in the
middle of a scene, or like it's two hit men
just have it, as you were saying, like a six
minute conversation about like Amsterdam or feet or whatever. It's
like I clearly when teams like he's concerned with that

(54:01):
ship and like being having like these scenes and then
it became this like behemoth and then all these men
were like I've got to make that, you know, because
I think the most I feel like the Fabian character
is actually pretty bad. Like I think that's like a
pretty bad representation of a woman. Like I think that's
the worst by far. But I think how come because

(54:22):
she's a tiny person who seems helpless. She's sort of
like a fantasy of a woman. Like she's like French,
has that haircuts kind of like it has like those
big eyes, and like has these like white shirts. He
kills it with the white shirts. By the way, everyone
were amazing white shirts in that movie. Um, Bruce and
Fabian and h they just the white shirts were amazing. Um.

(54:44):
She doesn't really do anything. She talks about eating. She
loves her boyfriend. That's what you know about her, right,
and then she fox up and it's kind of helpless,
and then she's just kind of and she cries a lot,
so it's like kind of like i'd say that's bad.
But even then I think what he's trying to do
is just like have like an adorable foreign woman, you
know what I mean, Like, I don't think he's really thinking.

(55:04):
It seems like he doesn't. He never even thought about
the fact that it's like a person. He's just yeah,
that's what I mean. We do see just a little
sliver of this character, and she does have I would argue,
more personality than a lot of female characters having movies.
But because she all the women in this movie are

(55:24):
framed as like the romantic partner of one of the
male characters who we know a little bit better. We
see actually doing things and and women, I mean, yeah,
and Esmerelda scene was a little bizarre. I mean cool
that you see the representation of a woman. The one

(55:47):
last thing I would say about Fabian before we move
on from that character is while she does not have
a lot of baring on the plot, and her main
significance in the plot is fucking up so that Bruce
Willis can law into all these other weird scenes and
eventually hold a katana, which is I think what Quentin
Tarantino wants the whole time is like how can I
get from point A to That's the most intend to

(56:11):
think that's seen by the way, not but that scene
was really funny when he's in the pawn shop and
he goes from weapon to weapon to chainsaw and then
that was super funny. But the exchange between Bruce Willis
Butch and Fabian and they're talking about bodies at the
beginning of their exchange together where she's like, there's that

(56:34):
kind of weird, but I think, kind of good line
where she's talking about like I wish I had a
pot belly and he was like, what that would be
fulk and gross or like what you know? Whatever they're
they're they're back and forth and it's very relationship talking,
and then she says that that line of like, oh,
it's it's so weird that what feels good and what

(56:54):
looks good to people is seldom the same or something
like that, and that for me was like whoa, what
an interesting like that character was used in some way
that I got a positive takeaway from. Again, impossible to
know if this is just words that Quentin Tarantino thought
sounded nice next to each other, or if there was
some intent next to it, But that whole like relationship

(57:16):
he's seen between them, I thought pre him throwing a
TV was very into their relationship. Post him throwing in
a TV, it's like, now there's some stuff to address. Well,
there's also that part where she's like, I went to
pot Belli and he's like, if you had a pot Belli,
I'd punch you in it, and we're like, ah, feminist
icon persual. I did want to call attention to all

(57:39):
the times in which a man in this movie calls
a woman a bitch or yeah, okay, early on that
everyone's in a while to any gender. When Jules is
talking about me and Wallace, he says that like eating
a bitch out and touching a bitch's feet, they're not
even in the same ballpark. And then Eric Stultz said,

(58:00):
is you're not bringing this funked up bitch into my house?
And then Vincent says about Eric Sails's wife, what a
fucking bitch, and then Butch says, you know, sorry, you
know what would make all of this evening if Bruce
Willis's character's name was bitch so then you would have

(58:21):
to be you would be young, bitch, I would be adults,
then old coming and then this isn't a bitch calling
butch calling her a bit, but it says do you
know how fucking stupid you are? To Fabian And then
Juels at the end says like, get that bitch under
control or whatever. So there's love that one. It's man,

(58:44):
it's almost as if but it's almost as if the
male characters in this movie are not feminist icons, nor
are they okay. So speaking of language, one of the
other reasons it's hard for me to watch this movie
and enjoy it as much as I have in the
past is that the end We're just gets thrown around
casually all the time, often by white people, either to

(59:07):
or in front of, or just about people of color,
and it is just very casual. The way in which
Quentin Tarantino was like, yeah, let's just drop, He's like, guys,
I'll do it myself. And also he has a black wife, yeah,
which is so weird. It doesn't get any it doesn't
get any lines. You don't even you just know that
she'd get mad and divorce him because there's a dead

(59:31):
body in her garage, Like it's also just weird that
Quentin Tarantino cast himself, Like it's just like all such
a weird man, Like what is he doing? We were
talking about this last night where it's like at very
least Gwen Tardina saw himself in this movie and was like,
probably not again, Probably we're gonna we're gonna hang it

(59:51):
up here, which I respect because because most directors that
are like I want to be in into like they don't.
They don't know when to say when all the time.
And he was like, know what, I maybe did a
crummy job. The N word is like it just is
a little again. This is another thing where he's like
trying to be cool, right, And what's interesting about him

(01:00:11):
I think because he has written some roles for a
lot of like famous roles for black characters. There are
black actors who like defend it, you know, like Jamie
Fox has or Samuel Jackson has I'm sure Pam Greer
did you know what I mean? Like things like that.
But it is one of those things like I'm watching
him like, oh God, like it's two white characters talking
to each other sometimes like Stulton Tripleton. It's like why

(01:00:33):
is that word there, like is this helping the movie? Um?
And it it is a little I did feel kind
of viscerally upset. I was like, oh what or when
he says it to Samuel L. Jackson, Samuel Jackson doesn't
respond to that word. I also thought that that was interesting.
It's like he's just saying clearly they're friends, and he
doesn't seem to care about it. But it is a

(01:00:53):
little like what are we talking about? What are we doing?
Because it's a white writer director making the choices. A
black writer and director probably would not have let that
happen that way. It's it's more just I'm more just
like like what do you think this is? Heading? Like
it's so weird because because The Hateful Eight, I saw

(01:01:16):
hatfulay in theaters and that movie has the N word
a lot more than pulp fiction. And I saw it
with and there were like people of all colors in
the movie theater and I thought it was horrible. Like
I was like, this is really unnecessary and I don't
know why we're doing this, Like it's not like it
doesn't you don't need that word to get across what's going.
It hasn't. It does the movie isn't saying anything about race,

(01:01:38):
you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, what
are we talking about here? And I think it bugs
me no matter where in Quentin Tarantino's uber it shows up.
It sucks and it's uncomfortable. And especially when in these
movies where it's famously written by a white guy and
you know exactly who it is, I feel like it
makes it all the more uncomfortable to watch it forced

(01:02:00):
out of character of any colors mouth. It's just like,
but this is crazy. It just sort of like to
hear it like whoa. By the time we get a
Hateful eight, it's so intentional that it's like, why the
funk would you still be just like a statement? Yeah,
it's like no, I can hold onto my words, Like
it's just that freedom of speech bullshit, which is just like,

(01:02:20):
what are we talking about? Um? The last thing I
want to say about this movie is that there's a
line that Harvey Kitel's character says, as they're like all
kind of parting ways, he says, just because you are
a character doesn't mean that you have character. And I
think that is a thesis statement for the way so
many women are written in movies just because they are

(01:02:42):
a character in the movie technically doesn't mean they didn't
think about that. When hearing that line, I just thought
it was like a kind of a dad joke. I mean, sure,
that's that's to be I absorbed it, and I was like, hey,
what a what a way to describe how women are
portrayed in movies a lot of the time. So really,
really quick, and this is not like something to be like, hey,

(01:03:04):
really quick, can we talk about the brutal rape scene
in this movie? But it was very taken aback. But
I must have blacked it out because I just I
just straight up did not remember this happened in the movie.
So there is a male and male rape scene in
this movie, and there's a lot to unpack there. But
what I thought was another, like okay, that was a
choice that kind of felt true to the character of Marcellus,

(01:03:27):
is that Marcellis basically is like when this will never
be spoken of again, like and that is the that's
sort of where like Bruce Willis story closes of like, okay, cool,
we're never going to talk about the fact that I
got raped again, and we're going to talk about we
are not It's not that we have to talk about Kevin.

(01:03:49):
So we needed to talk about Kevin. Okay, I won't
talk about what happened to you, but we do need
to talk about kept getting need to talk about Kevin.
He's troubled. Is he's got a bow and arrow in
the backyard. What's going on with that kid? What a
weird movie? Let's never do that movie? The show? We don't?

(01:04:09):
It turns out we didn't. Didn't. Wait, can you sorry?
I didn't mean. I did mean to interrupt you, obviously,
but like, what do you? Can you finish that thought?
I'm curious? I so I thought that that was an
interesting and again there's no intent in this movie, but
hyper masculine reaction to an event like that of like,
let's never talk about it, and it's not I feel

(01:04:32):
like it's not even applied of like because this is
a traumatic, horrible experience that will affect me for the
rest of my life. But the implication was more because
it was embarrassing for me, or like because people would
make fun of me for it. Like his intent in
saying let's never talk about it again didn't seem connected
to the trauma that there would be with an experience

(01:04:53):
like that. Well, you know what it's connected to I
now realize is remember when m Samuel Jackson and John
Trabalta are talking to the guy is that they shoot
in the beginning of the movie, and he's like, is
Marcella s Wallace your bitch? So then theoretically what he
what this guy did? What the Peter Green character, the
cop rapist made him quote unquote his bitch, which is

(01:05:14):
the worst thing to happen to a guy, Like that's
what happened there. It's more of like the weird homophobic
like I can't be the less the receiver of prostate
pleasure exactly, and and as opposed to any any I mean,
there's no commentary there, but it was like a very

(01:05:35):
sort of a very hyper masculine move by a hyper
masculine character. But I just thought worth mentioning there's a
lot to unpack there. What is Marcella's like, three years
down the line after that experience, he needs a lot,
He's like this keeps happening to think I'm struggling, Like
I don't get a new job. I just well, to me,

(01:05:55):
it's like Quentin Tarantino being obsessed with like revenge engine
narratives where like Marcella's gets raped and then he gets
to exact immediate revenge on his rapist by shooting his
dick off, and then we don't see what happens after that,
But which is describes Yeah, which is great, Kill Bill,
which is just straight up a revenge story. Django unchained

(01:06:17):
inglorious bastards. These are all just like stories of like,
let's just get revenge on these people. So I think
it's I feel like that scene was put in there
because he's like, I'm obsessed with people getting revenge for
doing well. And I also think that there's a little
part in Quentin Tarantino's a little weird lizard brain that's
like have people ever seen exactly? That's what it felt like,

(01:06:40):
what's cool? He's like trying to do something memorable or cool?
You know, I really think that's where he's coming from.
But that, to me makes it so much worse. It's
like of of like, oh, well, I've never seen this
on screen. Let me just put it on screen. Let
me not think about any of the ramifications or how
a character would realistically deal with this. Let me just
like I haven't seen this here it I would bet

(01:07:01):
all my money that that's exactly what. I don't think
he has thought about it at all, like even if
like the masculinity part, which is interesting because obviously he's
a man, so he can't see what he's doing. He
doesn't know what he does, I guess, but he's almost
just like, no, I haven't seen this, so mathematically I
should do that. Like even with the masculinity part. I think,
like I would think he thinks he's a feminist because

(01:07:21):
he did kill Bill, you know what I mean, But
he doesn't really. Tarantino for sure thinks he's because he's
not even he's not even really like think he's Yeah,
I just think he watches movies all day long and
isn't a person. But then when Harvey Weinstein is exposed
as a predor, Quentin Turntin was like, um, that sucks,
like and there's just god, yeah, I'm sure he thinks

(01:07:42):
he's a feminist. Probably well is threatening to murder Harvey
wat on instagram dot com a true feminist diaom. That's wild. Um,
we're running out of time, so we should talk about
whether or not the movie passes the BECTO tests. It
does in one scene where Jody and Trudy because we
both know their names. Are talking about Jody's piercings, which

(01:08:04):
introduces a new fun Bechtel asterisk to how we interpret it,
the interpret it interpret the test Street Podcast Meryl Street,
Meryl Streets Interpretative. So a lot of times when we
talk about the podcast, people will be like, well, it's
mainly about the Bucktel test, which isn't we talked about
how women are portrayed. But new asterisk to the test

(01:08:27):
because people ask about our particular interpretation of it. So
when we see this scene that passes the Backtel test,
we do not yet know the names of the female characters,
but we find out what their names are in the
scene immediately following. For us, because we find out what
their names are, we don't know when the scene is happening,
but we learned pretty much right after. Right, Yeah, I

(01:08:49):
mean we we have to make all these exceptions or
else no movies would pass the back Toel tests. Little
fun nickpicky new asterisk, right, but yeah, we do find
out their names. So, um, and they are talking. I
don't think a man gets mentioned once in that conversation.
They're just talking about Rosanna Arquets. Various piercings all over
her body, right, just a real Quentin Tarantino for some reason,
didn't hit the boa. She does say because she's talking

(01:09:13):
about her tongue piercing. She's like, it's to make filating better.
So she's flating whom filating whom probably a man? I
think that that is that to Heteronavati say, I don't know,
you're right, I'm sorry, Um okay, Yeah, So that's the

(01:09:34):
one scene where it passes the back. I don't think
any other scenes have two women even interacting interacting. There
are sometimes two women in a scene, but they don't
talk to each other, right, like in the restaurant or
something like that. But yeah, right, let's write the movie
on our nipple scale, where we write the movie based
on its portrayal of women zero to five nipple scale.

(01:09:56):
This is gonna be tricky because we see female character
's who have personalities for once in most names that
I can Yeah, of the ones that have speaking roles,
I think almost all of them have names. And there
are more than one woman in the movie. Um, there's
like up to five or six with speaking roles. But

(01:10:17):
because this is a movie about men and their storylines,
if there are women, they're sort of framed as the
girlfriend or the wife, and they're not really contributing that
much to this story. I'm gonna give it like a
two I think. And again, it did bother me that,
like the two main plot points where a woman does
something to significantly impact the direction story takes is them

(01:10:41):
making a mistake that has to be corrected by a man.
So that bugged me a lot. So yeah, it's gonna
be two nipples, and I'm going to give my nipples
to Meryl Street, Meryl Street, Hannes, Meryl Street, please okay
arts In this movie, I wish alf Molena had perhaps,

(01:11:03):
of course, I think he could have done Harvey Kytel's
part very well. I don't know if you could have
done it as well as Harvey Kitel. And that's a
lot because alf Milena is a master of his craft,
as we know. I think that he could have done
Bruce will Is his part, and it could have been
a really fun breakout role for him. He could have
played He could have also played me a Wallets like

(01:11:25):
he's amazing. Certainly, I'm also going to give this movie
two nipples for the reasons you described. It's interesting when
you think about Quentin Tarantino's work as a whole, where
this is his second hit after Reservoir Dogs, which is
such a male, male, male movie that we barely see

(01:11:48):
a woman in the entire fucking thing. So it is
interesting that he's gradually introducing women into his body of work.
Pulp fiction is not you know, it's not on the film.
It's not a it's an actor's film. It's a tone home,
it's a lot of things. There's a lot of horny
depth in the film. I think we can argue that

(01:12:09):
there's a lot of horny tone poem elements to the film.
But it's interesting that this is the movie where we
see Quentin Tarantino start to realize, Hey, what if I
put a woman in the movie doing literally anything? Yeah,
there's I it sucks that women are either damseled or
have basically no bearing on the plot. Uh So I'll

(01:12:29):
give it two nippies, And I'm going to give those
nippies to as moralta very nice jake, what would give.
So one thing I want to say is I think
Jackie Brown would also be an interesting movie to do
on your podcast, because it came right after and it's
all about. Yeah. Anyway, I think two is pretty accurate.
Did use man explain to us what movies we should
do in our podcast? I'm a man. I warned you

(01:12:51):
when I emailed you, I said, even though I'm a
dumb man, I'd like to be your podcast. I warned
you ahead of time. I was a man. You didn't
know I was. Yeah, I just think could be interesting. Honestly,
I just haven't seen Jackie bed in a long time,
and it's it's about a woman, and it's it's like
you know, it's it's about Pam Greer and it's like
a very it's her movie. So it's would be an
interesting movie to do because it is the movie I

(01:13:13):
think after this movie, so it would be interesting to
see how much he changed. I wish that we had
done both. Anyway, Um, yeah too. I think it's pretty fair.
I mean because also again, I mean, I love the movie, Like,
even with all this stuff, watching it from this angle
which I never had before, I still love the movie.
I think it's like super entertaining and ridiculous and it's
irrelic from childhood, so it's kind of stuck there for me.

(01:13:33):
But um yeah, representation of women, I don't think you
can argue. I think two is being generous. Obviously. Mia
Wallace is like a pretty awesome character, and I do
think she really you really remember her, and she's cool
as shit. But I don't think you can say that
from a few perspective this helps at all. Um. I
think in the end, if if anything for gender, it

(01:13:53):
has definitely been on the wrong side of history. But
as a movie, I do love watching it. I have
to admit I think it's really fun. Jake, thank you
so much for being here. Where can people find you
online at Wiseman Jake on Twitter? And that's it And
but check out what can we say Corporate? Please watch
Corporate on Comedy Central ten pm on January seventeenth. You

(01:14:14):
can also watch the first four episodes right now for
free on CC dot com. I think you really like
the show. It's good. It's so good. You can follow
us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all the good stuff at
becktel Cast and go to our website bactelcast dot com.
You can subscribe to Patreon. That would be a blast

(01:14:34):
for you. If you did that, then would be a
blast for you. It would be able to helps us
out with our production costs. It helps you out by
getting even more Bactel cast. Wow, what a gift. What
is timed to be a lot? What a time? Day?
Is the stuff for Patreon? Is just you two talking
about men. Yeah, it's just like a list of our
Google spreadsheet. We should just do an episode where we

(01:14:58):
list all of Alfred mill in his movies. I'm going
to start. That's a different podcast. I just going through
Alfred Molina's entire body of work with Alfred Mollina. It's
kind of just the thing for me and Alfred Bileinna.
I'm sorry. Accept the two of us, I understand, and
it ends with us hooking every episode. Congratulations, we look up.

(01:15:18):
Okay cool, Thanks thanks for listening. Bye,