Save the Last Dance with Khadija Mbowe

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they
have individualism?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
It's the patriarchy.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Zephy and bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
Oh hey, there, teenager on the train that I sat next.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
To who me?

Speaker 4 (00:21):
Do you like ballet?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
But do you still do it?

Speaker 1 (00:25):
No?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
And I don't want to talk about it. Oh okay, sorry,
Ballet killed my mother. Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Oh there I said it. Ballet and my dreams killed
my mother. Okay, are you happy?

Speaker 5 (00:36):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (00:37):
That's a lot of trauma that you know.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
It's kind of like, did you ever watch Kruella?

Speaker 4 (00:41):
I must, I know, I haven't seen it.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
It's like so funny to me because it's like the
girl Boss mentality taken to like a fourteen, So it's
like it stops being bad and it starts getting funny.
They rewrite it so that Kruella only hates Dalmatians because
they like killed her parents.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh that's right, And you're like, what, that's basically what
happens in this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Ballet killed her mother and so now she can't talk
about it.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
I mean fair, Yeah, anyway, Hello, and welcome to the
Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
I feel like the Sorry, my name is Jamie. I
feel like the moral of this movie is if you
dream too big, it will kill someone.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
So dream small or have no dreams.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
If you have ambitions to go to Juilliard, someone will
get into a car accident or there will be some
kind of car catastrophe every time you audition, because it
happens twice.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
This happens a lot in movies of this era. I
was thinking, there's some.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Hilary Duff movie that is rancid unfortunately about like raise
your voice I think is called no indeed.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yes, oh sorry, You're welcome now.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
It's like I can't Some podcasts Dana want you to
say anything until they introduce you. So I was silently
violently nodding. There's no rules, one thing about me. I'm
gonna bust out, calmly say oh oh, the epitome of
white girls giving us nothing. Oh, raise your voice is

(02:18):
a staple.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I love the I mean, it's like equally ridiculous that
Hilary Duff is the voice of a generation, that Julia
Styles is the ballet prodigy of a generation.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
But she I think her brother dies. Her dreams kill
her brother.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, her brother. They were going to I watched this
movie recently, So what happened was they were on their
way to a three Days Grace concert. They came back
from it. He snuck out of the house. He got
in trouble, but he snuck out of the house. They
went because he wanted to do it for her. And
then on the way back, when they're singing, headlights and

(02:56):
he's dead and she can't see flashlight, she doesn't want
to audition, but her brother secretly send in the tape
for her.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I love the specificity of them going to a three
days Grace concert. What an embarrassing way to die?

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Are you many for? Hey? They died singing that. That's
what happened. He died singing that.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
I guess I need to watch this movie.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
I've never seen it. Is it a D com?

Speaker 4 (03:24):
It sounds like it's a D com?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
No, No, But it's that middle ground place where like
it's a little bit for older Ish teens. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
It's for the Degrassi crowd or something. It's like slaighty
above dcom age And she sees his ghost like comes
to the concert or whatever, I miss, I would have
appreciated a Julia Styles mom ghost.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yes, sitting in the theater.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh yes, Casper can do it.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
Save the Last Hands can do it exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Okay, so we've immediately gotten deroute. Sorry, Welcome to the
Bexel Cast.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yes, this is our show where we examine movies through
an inter sectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as
a jumping off point. I just want to breeze right
past that today. Look it up or listen to a
different episode, because we show's.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Been on for forty five years. Okay, if you don't
know what the tech, we barely talk about it.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's the jumping off point.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
For a bigger discussion about Chilia styles.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
It's called marketing. Okay. And if you guys, I'm sorry
not be attacking your audience. I know we have a.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Brand to maintain.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
God no, but today's movie is.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Not The Hill or Duff one we were just talking about.
It's Save the Last Dance, and we have an amazing
guest we're so excited about. They are an unseerious content
creator trying to get people to be less mean to
each other. It's Kadija, mumbo, thank you so much for.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Being here, Thanks for having me. Oh gosh, we're starstruck.
We're thrilled.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
We're fans, which is wild to be because I literally
I'm listening to you. You're on Behind the Bastards, and
y'all are talking about that weird CIA sex cult thing.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah yeah, Roberts accusing me of murder right and.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Left yep yep.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
So, Kadija, what is your relationship with Save the Last Dance?

Speaker 1 (05:15):
So, actually, Save the Last Dance is the first Okay,
I grew up watching it.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
One.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Of course, I always wanted to be a dancer growing up,
but my parents wouldn't afford to put me in dance
and were also like, girl dance. We did not come
all the way from West Africa for you to come
over here and dance, Like, open those books? What are
you talking about? So? I always secretly loved ballerinas like
that was always a thing that I like dreamt I

(05:40):
could do. So I loved watching any kind of dance movie.
And then on top of that, my friend and I
Chelsea Chelsea, Hey girl, I'm giving you a shout out, Chelsea, Chelsea, Chelsea,
She's gonna be so thrilled. We watched it for a
podcast that we did, like back in twenty two twenty
I think, and it was the first YouTube video that

(06:04):
I made, not giving like life advice or anything, but
like actually talking about like a social issue and yeah,
the dolls were like, oh, hey girl, this is keo
and I was like, hmm, maybe I should talk about
more of this stuff because I have half a sociology degree,
so I may as well put in use.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
No, I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
It was like a part of a turning point and
the kind of content you're making that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, because I did video essays like once a month,
but I was like, I'm going to make life advice
and then I'll do video essays once a month. And
then I was like, why don't I just like kind
of mix these too. So I just like turned my
camera on one day and was like, we gotta talk
about Save the Last Dance because I have issues with
this movie.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
And then we watched that video. Because here's what happened
with us. Jamie and I had prepped this episode to
release on our Matreon as a part of Dance Sumber
because the first movie we did was Flash Dance and
then we were prepping to do Stay with the Last Dance,
and then we were just like, this episode would really

(07:03):
benefit from a guest.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, and we both we realized in Uni said, because
we had both watched your video and had like quoted
it extensively, and we're like, we should just invite.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Them on the show. Like, what are we doing, We're
being fools.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
So we put a pause, we reached out to you,
and we were like, I wonder if the reply, and
then we covered burlesque on the matriar.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I fucking love burlest movie. I'm working side note, I'm
working on a pole opera recital, and so that's a
big inspiration visually aesthetically for it, because oh yeah, perfect
watched it for the first time last year.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
What a film.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
It's just no hinges.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
It is so Yeah, we were really into the whole
air rights plot twist.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, it's so movie. You know, it's a movie that
feels like a movie. It right.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
That God disappeared too quickly, let's bring it back.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:06):
So anyway, so you responded, and here we all are
and we're so delighted to have you. Yeah, Jamie, what
is your relationship with Stay of the Last.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Dance similar to Kadija. I grew up watching this movie.
I feel like it was like a real sleepover classic.
I definitely saw it several times. I went to like
community ballet classes where we like didn't compete, no one
was particularly good. So the dancing in this movie was

(08:35):
really great because it's not very good and we're like,
we could do that, and like, tragically we may have
been able to do it, because it's mostly just pointing,
standing up, sitting down.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
She does drop into those splits though, the middle splits.
She does that. I was like, oh right, oh wait, okay,
we weren't being kind to her because I forgot she
immediately goes into that, and then everything else was yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
She trained, she trained, But yeah, I had like a
pretty limited history with this, but I hadn't seen it
in a long time before prepping for this, and so
you know, it's very much a confronting your nostalgia demons
kind of thing. And yeah, I forgot a lot of
what happened in this movie. And I also forgot I

(09:21):
think that this was my first viewing of this movie
where I realized, I don't know what they're preparing for.
For a lot of this movie I don't know what
the dancing, why he's training her, what qualifies him to
train her.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Because she's white and he's black and he's trying to
give her flavor.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
God, that really does seem to be the internal logic
of the movie, because I was like, wait a second,
is he a dancer?

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Like do we know this?

Speaker 5 (09:49):
Not?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
What are they getting ready for? They're taking it so seriously.
I love it.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Right because it's not until like past the midway mark
that she learns about the the next string of Juilliard auditions.
So before that, he teaches her how to sit in
a chair.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
And you, guys, I'm so sorry I need to say this.
So as black people, dancing is really important, right, and
so because of that, if you can't sit or stand
or move your hips with some sort of attitude, it's
kind of like a family embarrassment. Honestly, Like two of
my siblings can't dance. And every time I'm like, I'm kidding,

(10:30):
I'm don't, I'm not. Black people are on a monolith
and i am not the representation for black folks.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
I just He's like, you're not sitting in the chair, right,
and so we have to incorporate this chair sitting as
a part of your dance training.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
You're like, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Even though at steps the club there is no point
that any of them are sitting. No, no, well, I like,
unless they're talking.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah, but the sitting isn't a part of the dancing.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
There's like four chairs for heated conversation there. This movie
is I remember it being incredibly successful, and it just
feels so like peak MTV movie of this time, where
the soundtrack is pretty fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
The soundtrack is bumping. I was like, Okay, hold on,
you can do it.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Put your ass into it.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Oh you said that so reluctantly, I know.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
I was like, I was like, because some of the
lyrics are you can do it, put your back into it.
And then I was like, is that the lyric or
is it both of them?

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I think it goes back and forth.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Music is amazing, Music is amazing. It could be good,
things could be true.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
You're so right.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
I have a theory about this movie though, because I
looked up the date it was released January twelve, two
thousand and one. Guys, this was a pre nine eleven America.
This was and when you think about that, it explains
this movie. I don't know how, but I'm one of
those people that were always connected back to nine to eleven.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
I don't it's pre nine eleven and it's pre Shrek,
and those are the two oo cultural markers.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
It is pre Shrek. You're right, yeah, right, the final
movie before then eleven spiritually spiritually before it was like
two months.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
I also didn't remember this in my memory.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
This movie happened in New York, but I think it's
because anytime I saw a city in a movie and
as a kid, as like New York City, even if
they're constantly calling at Chicago, it's New York City, it's beautiful.
In any case, my history with this movie is yes,
oh sorry, what is Oh my god?

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Sorry, just like no, it's fine. This movie came out
when I when I was a freshman in high school,
so I was like the target demo, and I don't
think I saw in theaters, but I probably saw it
a few times at different like friends sleepovers, and we

(13:02):
were all just like wow, cool dancing, and we just
we thought it was cool. And I don't think i've
seen it since. So that's what my history is. Wow,
And I can't wait to talk more about it because
this is a wild, wild movie.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
It's a rich text.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
It's such a rich text.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
It almost definitely would have been my introduction to Carrie
Washington as well.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, she was still a teacher when she was doing
this movie. Really, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
That warms my heart. She's so good in it.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Like she did not make enough money off this role.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Because like citation needed, but I'm pretty sure that was
the case. I remember. I don't know when I was
looking this up because I just like to learn about
like how movies are made or like what the tea
was behind the scenes. And yeah, apparently she was still
teaching while she was doing this movie, because you know,
we know they don't pay actors, y'all.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Come on, Nope, no, not ones that aren't famous already.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
I did look it up, and it seems to be
referenced in a number of publications. Ay, they're pulling a
quote from her in Today dot com and People dot com.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Whoa, Okay, I love that, so it's true.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
But yeah, she didn't earn enough money from this role
because actors and especially black women are severely underpaid.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
So which is still I mean, that's like a conversation
that's been going on recently with.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Henson.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, crying off stage. Y'all too famous for their sah.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
It's ridiculous. Yeah, So that conversation is ongoing.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Shall we talk about the movie?

Speaker 3 (14:52):
You know, I think the time has come.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
It's time. All right, Let's take a quick break first,
and then we'll come back for the res cap and
we're back. We're back, all right, So here's save the

(15:18):
last dance. We meet Sarah played by Julia Stiles. She's
a teenager who used to dance ballet. We get some
flashbacks where she's hanging out with her mom. She's preparing
for an audition to Juilliard. She's begging her mom to
come to the audition. Sarah shows up at the audition

(15:40):
and her mom is rushing to get there and is
killed in a car accident along the way, right as
Sarah is auditioning but like she's falling in it, and.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right as Sarah is like coming in hot but like
she's blowing it anyways, you know, like like if she
hadn't fallen, Juilliard has an eight percent acceptance rate, right.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
And also, girl, yeah, like you I saw her leg
going up with some of those I was like, Julia,
activate those glute muscles, girl, lift lift that leg.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, but no, it's definitely her mom's death that botches
the I mean, honestly though, when I was a kid,
that was like the most engaging editing sequence I'd ever
seen in my life. Oh the juxtaposition, I mean, come on,
it was right up there with Oh my gosh, do
you remember I forget what song is playing in the

(16:40):
Glee episode where the cheerleader gives birth.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
I think it's going on.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Oh Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah, God, it's I don't know where
that was stored in my brain.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
What The fact that both of you even are referring
to this sequence.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Also really incredible too. Thousands era editing just just shut up.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Okay. So the audition gets all messed up, and Sarah
is devastated by her mother's death and she steps away
from ballet. She arrives in the South Side of Chicago
to live with her dad. Now their relationship is pretty awkward.
He's showing her around his apartment she gets settled in.

(17:25):
I was getting Charlie and Bella Swan vibes from this
because it's a very similar scene where Charlie Swan's like,
here's your bedroom, hope you'll like purple. Okay bye, very
beginning of the first Twilight movie vibes.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
That is well spotted. I like that she has jazz dead.
Had to be like, this is a character I haven't
seen before. I don't think I've ever seen jazz dead.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
So jazz Dad, they say it's.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
All been done, not so ah, jazz dead is definitely
I knew.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Okay. So then Sarah goes to her first day at
her new school, and it's worth noting that the student
body is predominantly black and she's one of the few
white students there. This will all become relevant later. During
her English lit class, they're talking about Capodi and she
gets into this literary debate with a classmate named Derek

(18:24):
played by Sean Patrick Thomas. Sarah also meets a student
named Shanil that's a young Kerry Washington who kind of
takes Sarah under her wing and introduces Sarah to her friends.
We learn that Derek is Shanil's brother. We also learned
that Derek has aspirations to go to Georgetown and become

(18:46):
a doctor.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
He had my number from the very beginning because he
did the thing that I love when boys do in movies,
which is quote things. He's quoting various things, and so
I was like, yeah, I have a crush on him.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
He's like if a god can read, I'm immediately like, oh.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
My god, like a teenage boy character is canonically literate.
I'm like, ooh, okay, I'm gonna be interested in listening.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
And can we just say, real quick, we're talking about
Kerry Washington. Kerry Washington before the lip quiver, because we
all know that lip quiver. It's like the Florence Pew frown.
And then is it Sean Patrick.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
It's yeah, he has three first names, and that's not acceptable.
Sean Patrick Thomas, child actor, Serial Killers.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
So Patrick Thomas and his nostrils, because Sean packs of
Thomas's nostrils every time I recognize it. I was like,
good for you, man, his nostrils are doing their own performance.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
But anyway, they're flaring, and they were.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Flaring a lot. I just couldn't stop staring at it.
As a kid, I just really remember his nostrils.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Okay, good nostrils. Game.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
It's like the Will Palter eyebrows.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
It's like, just sometimes that reminds me Jamie, did you
do you remember that Will Poulter is in the Revenant,
Yes I do. I did not remember that.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
The only reason I saw the Revenant I was like,
I'm wanting the Revenant to get horny.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
I have no reference. I've never seen it.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
I had only seen it one other time, but I
was scrubbing through it the other day for a little
special surprise for one of our live shows coming up.
But I was like, what Will Poulter's in this? I
wonder if Jamie knows anyway. So back to Save the Last.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Dance, a young Will Poultz. Okay, I don't like how
I said that the same age. That's fine, okay.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
So one day in gym class, Sarah gets on the
balance beam and she starts doing ballet type moves and
Shanil and her friends are like, wow, you can do ballet.
In that case, you should come with us to a
hip hop club named Steps. So after school, Sarah, Shaneil, Derek,

(20:58):
and their friend Snooky ahead of their time, they're hanging
out and they're kind of planning to go to Steps,
and they arrange to get Sarah a fake ID so
that she can get into the club. And during this scene,
Sarah is, how do I say this serving some attitude
to Sookie and Derek and they're like, Wow, this white

(21:19):
girl can hang. She's definitely this white girl is down.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, virtually stot like her acting style is like just
not selling this really very much.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
I wanted to shout out one of my favorite lines
in the movie.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
I think it's Nicki at the beginning of I don't know,
there's elements of this movie where you're like, for sure
this was written by multiple people over the age of forty,
because there's the there's the scene where I think it's
like Nikki who's like she's dancing in the hallway and
they're like, what are.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
You doing and she's like, I'm just doing a little hip.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
Hop, yeah, serving other people. And then Shaniel's like, oh,
that's just a little hip hop.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, You're like, that's a mom wrote that.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah. The original script is whenen by some random white dude,
and then this black woman came in later apparently and
like rewrote it and stuff. But I was like, was
this how they were talking to early two thousands or
is this old head stuff?

Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think the damage was done when the first job,
I'm gonna say Cheryl Edwards innocent.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Aryl Edwards protect black women, Daryl Edwards, Anna said anyway.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
So they're like, Wow, this girl's so cool, she should
definitely hang out with us. So then Sarah meets Shanil
at her place before they head out to Steps. And
this is when Sarah learns that Shanil has a baby
who her I believe it's her grandmother seems to be
like the primary caregiver for and she Kneel's like, bye, baby,

(22:49):
I'm going out to the club. So Chanil gives Sarah
her fake ID, she makes some adjustments to Sarah's outfit
and then they go into Steps. People are dancing, people
are judging Sarah for being there. There's this girl named
Nikki who's like, what's this white girl doing here?

Speaker 3 (23:12):
That scene that line.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I know you don't want to say it, so I
will say it. It's like, who invited the white girl
to the negro function? Julia South guest mustn't been sick
because there are any negroes here. And I was like, Julie,
I'm gonna stop rolling your neck. You are in mixed
company and you got invited here. You are a guest
in this house common town. That's like when Adele put

(23:37):
those Bantuo knots in and we were like, Adele, I
love you and we always want to invite you places,
but you stepped a little too far this a little bit.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, that scene is baffled and you're just like she
has Sarah. The character of Sarah, just in every situation,
displays a stunning lack of cel phon awareness, like and
is never punished for it. This is a world where
her lack of self awareness will never result in even

(24:08):
a stray look.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
She never learns anything from it. It's just like, what
is the point of the movie.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Then she's living the dream. She doesn't grow orgy.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
And she gets into Juliard.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, oh my gosh, she hasn't even become a better dancer.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Despite all of Derek's efforts. Okay, so Nicky, she's like
one of the antagonistic forces for Sarah, and she has
a romantic history with Derek and she wants to get
back together with him. He's not into her anymore. But
because there's this like blossoming flirtation between Sarah and Derek,

(24:51):
Nicky's like, h gross.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, every word out of Nicki's mouth is just like
a one liner insult.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
About Sarah being white. Yes, And I'm like, Nikki you
listen girl, Bianka laws in love you down, high schooler forever. Yeah,
you a little too light to be coming after this
white girl. Not saying that you're white, but girl, it's
the light skin privileged for me. And then I also
was like, is Derek a colorist?

Speaker 4 (25:17):
I mean, it's possible.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
He's really me stepping back.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
It seems to be favoring light skin.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Listen, Derek, I'm just curious. Although that is Hollywood though.
They like a dark skinned black man and a mixed
biracial black woman. That's the ideal couple form in Hollywood
for black folks.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
We've seen it time and time again. Okay, So meanwhile,
Sarah is at the club. She's just kind of watching
people dance. She's observing, and then Derek comes over to
her and asks her to dance. So they start dancing.
He's showing her hip hop steps.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
They're just doing a little hip hop Caitlin, all right,
She's like, what is this like, it's just a little
hip hop.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Then from now he's a little hip hop.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
She's not great at it, but she's trying her best.
And then a fight breaks out that Derek gets caught
up in the middle of because there's this guy named
Malachi who Derek is friends with, and Malachi is involved
in I think drug dealing is I don't know if
they come out and say it specifically, but that seems
to be the implication anyway, So there's this like fistfight.

(26:28):
Everyone scatters, and so they leave the club and then
Derek walks Sarah home and as they're saying goodnight, he's like,
I could help you with your dance moves and she's like, okay,
a montage.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Oh say what? Say what?

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Say what?

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, you know that, I like it. Baby.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Meanwhile, there's standing up and sitting down.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
She has to learn how to sit in a chair.
It's so important her mom died.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Came and take it easy.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
So they're hanging out a lot and he is teaching
her some steps, and like you pointed out, Jamie, they're
not preparing for anything. She's not anticipating another Juilliard audition yet.
My guess is just like they have a crush on
each other, so they're using this as an excuse to
hang out, but.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's the means by which they fall into weird love
with each other.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Right, So anyway, he's teaching her all this stuff and
then she does a ballet move. He's like, whoa, you
know ballet and she's like, yeah, but it killed my mom.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
So I don't want to talk about it attitude. I
don't want to talk about it. For what He's like,
so you said, Rondijan whatever because you don't want to
talk about it, which I appreciated that lie.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I really like that, but yeah, because I was like, oh,
they he said the thing that teen movies never say,
the thing that you're thinking.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
That's nice, Okay, So she's refusing to talk about her mom. Also,
Sarah has witnessed Malachi threatening and assaulting a girl at school,
and rather than telling him about that or like doing
anything to help protect this girl, she's just like, hey, Derek,

(28:22):
why are you friends with Malachi? And Derek defends him,
and then they move on. They just move right past
that conversation. Generally speaking, though, we just get a lot
of scenes of Sarah and Derek dancing and vibing, and
then Derek discovers that he got accepted into Georgetown, so
he and Sarah go out to celebrate. We get a

(28:46):
scene where they're on the l and a white lady
is giving them disgusted looks because she doesn't like interracial couples.
So Sarah and Derek start heavily noodling. They're all over
each other. I don't even they they've kissed at this point,
but they're just That's.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
What shocked me. Yeah, on her neck, and I was like,
has his lips even been on your mouth? No?

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, I was really Yeah, because after he gets into Georgetown,
it's game on for some reason, Like.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Listen, the prospect of full tuition and your future being
set for you. If that doesn't aroused you in this economy,
I don't know what would.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
I'm like, there has to be a missing scene where
they are like because it seems like they're together really
suddenly after like this really slow burned flirtation, and then yeah,
in the train scene, you're.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Like, oh, I guess that they're dating because they're on
a date and they're like making out on the train.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
But they haven't even kissed on the lips yet. It's
it's really weird. But anyway, So they go to the ballet.
She's apprehensive about going in because of all of her
ballet trauma, but they watch the performance. It upsets her.
And this is when she tells Derek that she feels
responsible for her mother's death because she died on the

(30:02):
way to Sarah's Juilliard audition. And she's crying and Derek's like,
it's not your fault. Don't give up on your dreams.
You can still go to Juilliard and dance ballet, and
she's like, so true, Okay, I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
I'm also just like, if I were Derek, I'd be like,
she should stop dancing.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
And go to therapy for U for at least a
few months. Seriously.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Well, also like if I was the superstitious type, which
I am, I'd be like, seems like every time this
girl auditions for Juilliard, someone she loves die and she wants.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Me to show up to that audition.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
I'm not going.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, I'm going to Georgetown.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah Yeah, I'm just like they're gonna I guess that's
just a high school couple, but I'm like, you guys
are gonna break up soon. Unfortunately, I'm I didn't have
him go to a school in New York Yeah, to
imply that they would like stay together.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
The plot did not give them a chance, because.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Georgetown is a DC is that yeah, okay, okay, I
guess not too far, but.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, sure, all they've been through a long distance relationship.
It just seems cruel right.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Anyway, So she is like, okay, fine, I'll dance again,
and this is when they have their first on screen kiss.
Then she takes out her ballet shoes and puts them
on for the first time since her mom died, and
she learns that Juilliard is holding auditions in Chicago in
one month, so she starts prepping and getting into shape,

(31:33):
which includes ballet classes and it also includes Derek continuing
to teach her hip hop dance. Then we see them
at Steps again doing some of the choreography they practiced,
and people are watching.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, I'm like, are they rehearsing to go to Steps?
Because that's so like if true, that is like maybe
they really did find each other, because that is like
the doorkiest thing in the world.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
That's so cute and weird.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
I mean, I don't know if this happens or not,
but I feel like, when you go to a dance club,
you don't do choreography that you practiced in a random classroom.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Y'all have not gone to clubs with dancers. Let me
tell you something, the girls. The girls will bust out
the corey yo oh, the dance circle. Yeah. I spent
a lot of time in my early twenties going to
clubs with dancers that it was always a thing. They
wouldn't bust out like choreo that they learned in class,
but they definitely would bust out stuff where you're like,
did you practices? Yeah, this is a little bit rehearse.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Did you rehearse for a party?

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Well I stand corrected.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Then I'm just here to be the reference for black
and dance.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
You know, thank you. Okay. So everyone's like watching their
choreography and they're like, oh my gosh, wow, look at Sarah.
Go except Nikki, who cuts in and starts dancing with Derek.
She's putting her butt all over him, and Sarah gets
jealous and leaves the dance floor.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
I love that turnive phrase, Gaale.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
I know she's putting her butt all over him. So
I was like, yeah, yeah, I mean she is am
I wrong' No, no, you're correct, not wrong.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I just didn't acpect the words in that order.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, exactly the way they came together poetry.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
She can do it.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
She puts her ass into it.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Every time you quote the lyrics, you do it so reluctantly.
Well that time I did that on purpose. Okay, good, okay, okay,
it was a call back. Oh we love a callback.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
You're right, you're right, you're right putting her ass onto it.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
Right, we need a remix of the song.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
You can put your ass.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
All over it, all over it.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
That's what he said.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
Yes, okay. So Nikki is dancing with Derek now, Sarah
is off to the side, and Malachi approaches Sarah to
be like, stay away from Derek Whitey.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
He calls her, he's oil you, milk.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
That does definitely happened.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay, Oh my goodness.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
So then Derek comes over and he's like, babe, but
what's the matter. We were just dancing. It's no big deal.
I would never do anything to hurt you. And she's like,
t he okay. So then they go back to her
place and she's like, my.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Jazz dad is out jazzing all night, out jazzing all
night with Kim Katrol.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
She's there scattinga.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
He looked at all the he dogs, he looked at
all the I never knew such a hell of balloon.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Like I didn't know you had it memorized.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Is that little dog Ray had to do one for.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Listeners who were not aware we were referring to a
video where Kim Katrol scats with her jazz husband yes and.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
His double bass his upright yes, and.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
It's maybe the most uncomfortable thing that one could watch.

Speaker 6 (35:24):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Anyway, So he's out jazzing away he is while his
daughter's fucking.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Yeah, because they have sex in the living room because
that's like where her bedroom is right now. She's sleeping
on the couch. They fuck on the couch, presumably, and
we don't talk about that enough anyway. Okay, Then we
see a couple scenes where Derek is hanging out with
Malachi and some other guys and they're judging him for
dating a white girl. Then they're playing basketball and there's

(35:55):
a drive by shooting because Malachi is in the middle
of this turn for luckily, no one is hurt, but
Malachi is gonna have to retaliate later on. And then
this is juxtaposed. This drive by shooting basketball scene is
juxtaposed with Sarah and Nicki also playing basketball in gym class,

(36:18):
but they're getting into a scuffle Niki is like, I
don't like white girls like you getting in my way
and taking my men. So they get into this fight,
and later at Steps, Malachi is trying to get Derek
involved in that like kind of retaliation scheme. Malachi insults

(36:41):
Sarah because she's standing right there, and so Derek punches him.
Then there's a scene where Sarah goes with Shanil and
her baby to a doctor's appointment and Shaneil is like, hey, Sarah,
I think Nicki has a point about white women being
with black men, and Sarah doesn't get it, she doesn't

(37:02):
want to hear it, and she leaves. Cut to Sarah
working with Derek on her Juilliard audition and he's like, oh,
let's go to this couple's only night at Steps, and
she's reluctant to go, and she's not even sure they
should be together at this point because it seems like
no one wants them to be together. They argue and

(37:23):
ultimately break up, so then Derek approaches Malachi to be like, oh, sorry,
I punched you, Let's be friends again. Malachi is like great,
I need you to show up and help me at
my turf war, and Derek is like oh yeah, I'll
be there.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I'm like, Derek Georgetown, Derek, come on, you're kidding.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Meanwhile, Sarah keeps working on her audition, but it's not
going well her auditions. The following day, she has a
tender moment with her dad, who I've mostly left out
of the recap, but he is in the movie and
we can bring him up.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
He's I'm sorry I did too much jazz and not
enough Dad, and she's like, I forgive you.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Sort of yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
I mean, I know that it seems like her parents
were divorced for some time, but I was sort of like, wow,
he does not care that his child's mother is very
suddenly dead.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
He's like showing no. He's like, well sucks, his life
is fair.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
I was giving one night stand were nice seed, We
hooked up, she had you, and I was like, I
gotta go, jazz id you this. I can't.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
He was not even pretending to care.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
He was not no good for jazz Dad anyway. So
she's like, I just miss mom so much and I
need someone who loves me to be at my audition,
and jazz Dad is like, well, I love you, I
could come, and she's like really, then we see Shaniel

(39:00):
admitting to Derek that she had told Sarah that she
agreed with Nikki that black men shouldn't date white women,
and Derek realizes that's probably why Sarah was so confused
about her relationship with Derek, so he calls the thing
off with Malachi and rushes to Sarah's audition. The audition

(39:22):
is once again intercut with Malachi and his minions.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
It's true, Kevin Stewart, Bob, everyone's there.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
They're all there, so we see them shooting at the
other people who they're in this like turf war with.
But Malachi and his minions get caught and arrested and
also their car explodes, so it's like, again, if you're
in a car while Sarah is auditioning for Juilliard, there's
going to.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Be a kid.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
I was like, truly, like people get into auto rex
while she's trying to achieve.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Off this you're dancing hurts people literally.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, like be honest, like it's not worth it and
you know it, you know it.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Yeah, you're not good enough to justify all these people's cars.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Exploding live sir is You're not Yeah, you're not borishna
cough try not to pass out at that really good reference.
I just dropped, Oh too late, pass Kay's throwing up.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
Okay anyway, so Malachai has gotten arrested. Meanwhile, at the audition,
Sarah messes up right away and she's like, I'm not ready.
But then Derek bursts in and he runs to the stage.
He's like, you can do it. So she starts again,
and at first it seems like traditional ballet, but then

(40:56):
it becomes a blend of ballet and hip hop, and
then are like, whoa.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
What is this music?

Speaker 3 (41:06):
She's doing a little hip hop?

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
Like the judges are like, what is that.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
She's like they went from shrowning to smile, like just
a little hip hop.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
And then the judge who hates her is like, welcome
to Juilliard.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Oh, I can't say this on the record, welcome to Juilliard.
Which Chelsea and I when we watched this movie, we
were as musicians who've like auditioned for Juilliard and all
these other schools like that are like known in our
community but not necessarily known outside of it because we
both trained as classical singers. We were like, bitch, first off,

(41:42):
you're not getting into the school because your audition sucked.
You had somebody burst in during your audition. The audacity
of that y. Third, the judges are never going to
look that mean to you. They want you to succeed.
They're not frowning and looking at you. They're like, hey, okay.
They're concentrated or they're smiling because they want you to
do well because they don't want to be seeing shitty performances. Thirdly,

(42:04):
no judge ever, so she, after not seeing all the
other auditions, would say, I can't say this all the record.
Welcome to julie'sard. He's not the only one on that panel.
Oh sorry, that just drove me nuts. That drove me
un nuts.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Real, unreal.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
We just covered flash dance as well, and she also
whiffs the beginning of her audition. She's like, can I
start again? But the twist was flash dances. We don't
even know if she gets in because the movie doesn't
give a shit. They just wanted to date a forty
year old man. But this one is interesting, yeah, because
it's like I never registered the disruption. As a kid,
I'm like, well, of course it's gonna happen, But as

(42:41):
an adult you're like, wow, they do not relent, Like
they're like, hey, you can't be in here, and then
she's like, no, let him in, and then he comes.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
On stage on stage.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
It was Wow, they really found each other. They're weirdos.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
I wrote in my notes, you need someone to go
to the audition with you. Girl, you ain't cut out
for this business because listen. Maybe it was a salty
bitterness of me of like pursue my dreams without my parents' permission,
but like my parents didn't even know if I had
auditions for shit. I take myself there on the bus,
did it and went back home like I don't I'm

(43:19):
sorry anyway, Maybe she's too co dependent. She's too co dependent,
and it's frustrating.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Like not for nothing.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
I'd be mortified if someone I liked or like, someone
who I cared about was at an audition. I'm like,
leave me to the wolves that you'll never never.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Watch me look at me.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
You don't need to perceive this, Okay, I'll tell you
about it, and tell you about it from my delusional
fantasy where they loved me, but like.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Me, I was robbed. I can't have anyone know that
I was not, in fact robbed.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Oh goodness, Okay, so let's take a quick break and
then we'll come back to discuss. And we're back, and
where shall we start, Kadija, is there anything.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
You would like me this evil which is like so
many things? Okay? Rich text. Firstly, yes, Nikki, I didn't
believe Bianka Lawson had this much attitude, and I didn't
believe her as the character. It almost felt like she
was like do I really got to say all this,

(44:37):
like you coming up in here stealing our men? And
her neck I was like, give her something for that,
because her neck kept rolling and she kept talking about
like Okay, sorry, maybe this is a sorry, there's so
many things. Maybe the early two thousand, take your time,
thank you. Maybe the early two thousands were a different time.

(44:58):
But you know, A, I personally have never been around
a group of black dudes, at least then hearing my
older brother's friends talk about white women and later that
would be that angry about you being with a white person.
Usually they're like, you got a white girl, look at you?
Oh you think you big money? Now, Like that's the

(45:18):
kind of shit. Not all of them would say, but
some of them would say, so, all of them being like, god,
white women are trouble. I mean, maybe now that's a
conversation happening because Jonathan Major's but it's also like was
the white woman to trouble or were you anyway? You
know what? You know what, it's a complicated topic.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
It's very complicated that the movie is not equipped to
discuss meaningfully in any way.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
They shouldn't have introduced it, Like I get maybe the
one scene of the lady, the white lady in the
train looking at them could have been a way to
just do it, and like that would have been the
only instance they really brought up of it. But of course,
you know, movies have to have conflict. Instead of the
conflict being I'm working through my trauma of my mom
dying and dance and all of that, it's I'm kind

(46:04):
of working through that, but mostly I like this guy
that I've become codependent with. But he's black and I'm white,
and this is two thousand and one and we're not
supposed to be together.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Right, so it has to And I feel like it's
I hope of phrasing this curst late, but I feel
like the movie does a lot of stuff to make
Sarah seem to be the oppressed person like they go
so far into the revert, like they're like, well, racism
affects white girls as well, and you're like no, And

(46:34):
this never like really registered for me until I was
watching it at this time. But it's like you see
a lot of black characters judging white characters, but you
don't really see the reverse very much in the world
of this movie, and so it comes off.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Very weird, right, Yeah, because there's a way to me,
there is a conversation there of yeah, like the colorism
of all the joke that I made about Derek maybe
being a colorist, or like, uh, just the idea that
you're in a space. And I'm glad that Chanil pointed
out when she was talking to Derek. She was like,
you know, I was really upset with Kenny, So I

(47:08):
was just really annoyed, and it was saying it from
a place of anger, less about like the actual relationship
and more so just like I was mad because my
baby's daddy's out here acting wild. And I'm glad that
at the end of it he showed up and they
both said hey to each other, and it was like
a hey, we're going to try to figure this out
as opposed to a you got a aight shit baby, daddy.
All the black girls are stuck with what does she say,

(47:28):
you come in take it to our men after jail.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Jail drugs and drive bys.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Maybe yeah, jail drugs and drive bys. I was just like, Okay,
I get it. You know, different neighborhoods, especially because we're
talking about poor black folks, so there's a different dynamic
there too. It was just like all black people are
poor and live in this part of Chicago, and because
of that, they don't relate. Like even when her friend

(47:55):
is on the phone with her and it's like, you
have white guys at your school, that's the only time
you hear a white person and be kind of and
the white lady looking at them a work person, be
kind of like what And she doesn't say it because
she's secretly embarrassed or what. I don't know, Like does
she answer her when she asked.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Her She says because she's like, I met someone. And
her friend assumes that the only guy that she would
date would be a white guy, and she's like, oh,
I didn't know they had white guys at your school,
and she's like, they don't, but doesn't necessarily clarify that
the guy that she met is not white.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, I mean, and again it's like you don't even
see that character, like none of the white characters that.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Are we don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
The lady on the train, she's like racism the lady,
and then they banquished racism the lady.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
And then kind of like move.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Forward where it's like such as we have like patriarchy
the guy, where it's like you just have to get
rid of this one guy and you've solved it, which
is like you know, movie logic, But like her dad
doesn't seem to have, you know, an issue with her
dating Derek, but also he doesn't give a shit about it,
so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Or he does it, but like when he's at the door,
she's like, now it's not a good time and he leaves.
But I'm like, is it because he's black or because
he's dating her? Or I was like, are we going
to explore this? I mean, he's a jazz musician living
in the South Side of Chicago. He probably knows black people,
I should hope, But you know, white people stole jazz too,
so yes, so I'm like, you know, but we don't

(49:24):
ever explore anything besides racism the Lady and reverse racism
Nikki right.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
I mean, there might be a world where this could
conceivably happen. But even just Sarah, who comes from what
appears to be a predominantly white suburban or more rural
community going to the South Side of Chicago, she.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Was in Vermont, they did that all permits here, like
what's the whitest pa.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Right, being suddenly immersed in a predominantly black community, and
for her to just be like, yeah, I'm so cool
with this. I fit in right away because of all
the attitude I'm giving. And it's also like, Okay, that
implication's also pretty messed up.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
It's like, yeah, I'm glad that, like the black girls
are having some fun, but it's all attitude and neck rolling.
And I'm like the one scene at the beginning when
she's with the black nerds and they're all sitting at
the table being like we are the future, I was like,
representation matter, Oh gosh, be like, don't let me catch you.

(50:31):
See to get that table again, it's like see high school,
high school.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
Yeah, the clicks are there, but yeah, I mean, ultimately
this movie ends up just being about a white girl
suddenly finding herself in this black community and being like, oh,
that's just a little hip hop. Well I'll learn that
and then I'll all basically appropriate everything that is near me.

(50:56):
She starts dressing differently. She starts like wearing her hair
in twists and braids.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
And she starts wearing tims. Yes, yes, yeah, that was
the turning point in the movie. She put on those
timberlands and.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
She was like slamming, said slammon so much.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
She said slamming a lot.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
I forget if this was from your video, but like,
I also watched Kenny j D's video about Save the
Last Dance that came out recently, which was really really funny.
But like the legacy of like movies where that this
feels like very clearly placed in where it's like a
white character like works through some external issue in their

(51:34):
lives by briefly being in a predominantly black community.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
This is a story of Taylor's oldest time hate and
paneteer and bring it on? Mmm? Is it the second
or third one with the launge noles in it? When
she's crumping?

Speaker 4 (51:54):
Oh god, I want to I want to say the
first one, so I couldn't say.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
This is basically say the last Dance but haten paniteer,
and she goes to a predominantly black school.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Bring it on all are and nothing?

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yes, bring it on all or nothing. She goes to
predominantly black school and cheers there, and the black girls
had roll their necks and do not like her. And
then she shows that she can do it by doing
white mediocre dancing, which I'm gonna be honest and Canada
at least I'll see at the clubs like, we'll all
be dancing having a good time. You turn around, a

(52:28):
white girl does like a little booty pop and a
group of black guys are like, hey, hey, I'm like girl, girl,
it's not that special, it's we all need to calm down.
So they're emboldened by this. But I think the thing
that the major theme that I really got from this
was I do not trust Hollywood in general, but I
do not trust Hollywood to make movies like this, because

(52:49):
even if they had a white guy write it and
then a black woman come in to like sort it out,
it's still Hollywood depictions of what they expect an audience
to want and appreciate, as opposed to depictions informed by
real people, cause, like, I'm not against hearing black people
talk with attitude or roll their necks or whatever. Like

(53:11):
Pea Valley is one of my favorite shows, and I
think it does a really good job of depicting Southern
folks that I grew up around and heard talk black
and white, but predominantly black, and like the different race
relations in there too. I don't know, it just feels
like more grounded in reality when I watch that show,
and the difference of when I hear a black person

(53:35):
writing it and a black person of a certain age
writing for it, like insecure and rap shit and stuff
like that, versus an older white man writing this dance
movie because dance movies were popular in the early two thousands,
and then they're like, oh, we need it to look better,
so let's have this black woman. I don't know how
involved she was in it, so I don't want to
discredit her, but it's also like, yeah, I'm just like Hollywood,

(53:56):
I'm giving you SIDEI And I know the actors only
have but so much can because they're like, listen, a
gig is a gig. Let me just come for here.
Sadie's damn lines, get my money and go.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
But Yeah, Yeah, there's not a lot of information I
was able to find about the production of this movie.
I was really hoping for like an oral history kind
of peace on this movie, but it doesn't seem like
one exists, which is really frustrating because this movie, and
a lot of teen movies, feels like studio notes within
an inch of its life, to the point where it's
like incoherent at certain parts, and it seems like whole

(54:28):
scenes or like storylines are kind of dropped. But I
was honestly surprised that this movie has a black director
and a black co writer because it just seems so
all over the place. And I wish I knew because
the name of the director, he's predominantly a TV director
before this, named Thomas Carter. Carter who side note, I

(54:51):
thought it was just really funny. He's like, when I
saw Julia Styles dance in Ten Things I Hate About You,
I knew she had to be in this.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
I'm like, did you that's why she.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Danced Ten Things I Hate About You?

Speaker 4 (55:01):
Yeah, there's a see where she gets up on the
table at a party and starts dancing, And again I
would say, like, not particularly well, right.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
I'm just like yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
I'm gonna say the thing that I probably shouldn't say
in mixed company. But here we go, older black man
at a certain age. Y'all, y'all be given to little
too much? What what is this? What you saw? Julius?
I'm sorry. There are plenty of white girls out there
that could have done a lot more and not been
like I think Julius Sous played it well. And how
stiff she was, especially like in the beginning, you notice

(55:33):
little things with how she puts her feet, how she stands,
you know, the ballet training, like I think she that
was directed well and I think she really did that well.
But it was still just like, even when they're doing
the dance and they're doing the steps and whatever, I
was just like, girl, Derek dropped to the splits, flipped
back up. He was doing be boy stuff. What was
she doing?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah, it's just like it does feel like this movie
is directed by someone much older than the age demographic,
which is true. He is almost fifty when he directed this.
Not true to be agist with the direction, But when
you're making a movie for teenagers, you should like talk
to one, you should talk to one well because you're
also talk to with you.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
Yeah, you're bringing in the baggage of like two generations
removed from the target demo and the actors in the movie,
and so yeah, you're like bringing in this kind of
like generational baggage from a bygone era. And all of
this is happening in two thousand and one, which is like,

(56:35):
you know, over twenty years ago now. So like it is,
despite the movie having a black director and having a
black co writer, the sole story by credit goes to
Dwayne Adler, who is a white man. A black woman
named Cheryl Edwards has a co screen running credit with
Dwayne Adler, but we're not quite sure to what extent

(56:58):
she was involved. When they're are like, you know, co
screenplay credits, that could mean any number of things. It
could mean that they both wrote separate drafts. It could
mean that they collaborated together on drafts. It could mean
that she was just brought in to rewrite the dialogue,
which is honestly, I feel like probably the most likely thing,
where like, yeah, his dialogue just didn't sound authentic at all,

(57:22):
and so she although I'm completely speculating, you know, don't
quote me on this.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
And he goes on to make this a cottage industry,
like Duayne I.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
And that's the reason why I was sideways, because he
did a lot of these fuckings.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Yeah, he found something that worked and just relentless save
the last dance the way she moves. Don't remember that
one step up, save the last dance too, step up
to the streets, make it happen. I don't know that
is step up, three D, step up, Revolution, step up
all in He makes like a billion step up dollars

(57:55):
after this because he's like, uh, yeah, I think I.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
Get kids movies and you're like, Dwayne, I'm not sure.
I'm not sure those share Dwayne.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
The kids just want to dance to a little hip.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
So yeah, I mean, despite the movie having a few
black creatives in like significant roles, significant creative roles, as
you point out in your video, Esda Kadija, like this
movie still has kind of like the stink of written
by a white person all over it.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
It's Hollywood white gaze, not the Hollywood white gaze. Because
I always have to clarify that.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Not Andy Cohen.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Well that's a whole other that's a whole other conversation.

Speaker 4 (58:40):
Yeah, I don't have time, but I mean just yeah,
the way that this story ends up panning out as
far as like she ends up in this predominantly black space,
she starts just basically appropriating the culture. Anytime anyone calls
her out for any behavior, she doesn't learn anything from it.
She takes it as an attack, and then she's just like, well,

(59:01):
I'm just gonna do whatever I want to do. And
then she ends up incorporating the things that she learned
from Derek into her like ballet audition for Juilliard. So
it's like, yeah, me, a white woman, I'm going to
introduce hip hop to Juilliard. And then the white judgers
are like the twist, it's bad, amazing, but they love it,

(59:22):
and they're like, welcome to Juilliard.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Well, and it's and I feel like it's also implied.
And this like reminds me of a lot of the
conversations from several years ago and still now of how
like your Charlie d'milio's on TikTok would take and repost
dances originally done by black users and then become super
famous and you know, make a bajillion dollars off of

(59:45):
that appropriation, and it's like, we don't get the feeling
that at the end of this movie that like Sarah
is going to continue doing hip hop and or that
she's gonna even continue like living in a predominantly black neighborhood.
It's like she's used what she needs and now she's
like going to it seems like cast it off and

(01:00:05):
move on because she's gotten what she wants.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
A thing that I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Didn't talk about in my video essay that I am
thinking about more now is how we package desirability because
I think someone like a Julia Styles, she's pretty popular
around that time as an actor, and even now with
like a Charlie Dmeliar or whatever like TikTok. People talk
about the algorithm and how it does like certain facial features,

(01:00:29):
certain looks, even complexions, like there is bias in its algorithm,
skin tone bias and all that stuff. We I think
collectively people just like good music, right, and they just
like something that is a vibe, and a lot of
hip hop or R and B and all that stuff
is a vibe. It's the same thing in reverse, like
when you're like black people, why you love Paramore so much?

(01:00:50):
It's like, leave me alone, Hey, Williams. Slatt, don't do
me like, I actually went to an emo phase. So like,
I know a lot of like pop punk girlies. But
even black people that do not listen to that type
of music are like no, no, no. They will sing
misery business top to bottom and be like the shit slaps,
you know. And Hailey Williams is a great singer and
she's a lot of uh she grew up in the South,
she's a lot of different inspirations. Anyway, for me, the

(01:01:12):
thing and this is my own bias. I'm speaking for
my own perspective. Black people are not a monolith. I
tend to view it sometimes as like when I've been
around other black folks and stuff, if you're talented, if
you're good, if you're whatever, we'll recognize that. That's it.
Like you just have to be good. Like Renee Rapp
was singing Dangerously in Love with Jennifer Hudson on her
show If So many of the comments were like, Jennifer,
how are you gonna let this girl eat you up

(01:01:33):
like that? Jennifer ooh, you know, And so it's just like,
if you're good, the shit's good. It doesn't matter what
your skin color is. But I think with white audiences
and This is a question I've asked a lot. It's
will white audiences show up to things where they are
not the center of attention or they are not centered
in it? And how do we do introduce this style

(01:01:56):
of music? Even though hip hop was very popular in
the nineties and two thousand that was like the biggest time.
And this is the question I don't really know the
answer to my speculation, and I speculate this a lot
in videos. Is that a lot of us need to
work on practicing our empathy muscles when it comes to
putting ourselves in the perspective of a character who we
don't look like. And for a lot of darker skin folks,

(01:02:18):
black and brown people, especially if you grow up in
this part of the world, you are used to seeing
media that does not look like you a lot, but
you can still empathize with the characters. Like Interteller is
one of my favorite movies. There are a couple of
black people in it, sure, but like, it's not about
black people or anything like that. It's just a story
about love, you know, so like and I fucking love it.

(01:02:39):
But I think not enough audience members like it's particularly
not enough white folks will watch or invest in movies
and TV shows where it's not for them quote unquote,
or they're not centered in it, which is why, like
we'll have a whole separate black genre of movies where
I'm like, if I say to a black person, the

(01:03:00):
my family fucked my husband, they know exactly I'm talking
about soul food. They know, you know. But like you
ask a white person if they see so food, and
a lot of times they're like, what or one of
my friends to see the color purple? He's white. You's
see the color purple way too many times. More times
I've seen it, and I was always like, I'm sorry, Kevin,
what you see the color purple? Eight? What? Like? And

(01:03:21):
it even surprises me because I'm not used to white
folks not centering themselves and practicing that empathy muscle of
consuming media that isn't necessarily cater to them, that doesn't
have them in mind, but it's still about people totally.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
Like And this is something that I've had to contend
with in my own like movie watching journey, where that's
just so much of what's available are white centered stories.
So they're just so ubiquitous that if you go to
the movies or if you want to watch a movie,
nearly ten out of ten times it's going to be

(01:03:57):
a white centered story, which is why white people do
have to almost deliberately seek out or like they have
to kind of put in a more conscious effort, and
most of them simply don't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
Yeah, it's you don't think about it. You don't know
what you don't know. So from a like compassionate place, yeah,
you don't know what you don't know, so you don't
know that you're missing a whole genre. But also from
a girl you got internet in access and saying wi fi,
we all do. Like if you don't, if you don't
want to put yourself in those positions to watch those
movies where you might not get all the references or

(01:04:30):
you might not like understand certain things, then you're not
going to. I'm someone who loves diverse stories and stuff,
so I'll watch a whole bunch of shit. I don't
know nothing about living in Ireland back during the nineties,
but Dairy Girls is fucking hilarious, like you know, but
also Irish people gangang you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
But but yeah, it does kind of challenge like when
you were saying, like, well, what it means when you say,
like a movie is for you versus it's not where
like a lot of white audience members, we'll look at
a movie and be like, well, it's not for me
because I don't see myself in it, so it's not
for me. Where it's like the true meaning of that
is like I don't like that genre generally, or that's

(01:05:11):
like not a director I let but I think that, yeah,
that white audience members are so default, and like I've
done this in the past and had to like call
myself in and be like, yeah, just because you can't
see yourself in it does not mean it's not for you,
you fucking loser.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Oh it started. It started kind it was like calling
and there was like you fucking broken book too, bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Well that self talked fucking piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
But no, I always try to tell people in my videos,
like you need to be intentional about consuming different things
because media is not a place where you go to
for creativity. It's not thinking outside the box. It's not
a vision. They're packaging and selling to you what they
think you want. And when they find somebody else that
is willing to do something else and be creative and

(01:06:02):
other people like it, they jump on that, you know,
like the Barbie movie. It made all the money, so
now they're like, Okay, we're going to jump on stuff
like that too, because clearly the audience wants it. But
they weren't going to just make that movie. People had
to fight them for it to be made. It had
to have If they were going to have a female director,
it had to be someone like Greta who is well known,
because they're not just going to take a chance, you

(01:06:23):
know what I mean. It's just very like the audience
dictates a lot of things, and we don't give ourselves
enough power or enough agency to say if I actually
want to go out of my way and purposely start
supporting other things and investigating other things, I can do that,
and the media and all that stuff will follow if
more of us are doing that. Like I purposely diversify

(01:06:46):
when I was on Instagram. I'm taking a bit of
a break right now, but when I was on there,
I have made a conscious effort to follow accounts of
people with different body shapes, different abilities, all of that,
because I'm like, I need to put in my face
and see difference and be comfortable with that. It's like
a lack of repeated exposure. The more that I expose
myself to difference, the different ways that human beings can

(01:07:09):
come in, the more I value human life, no matter
what it looks like. The more I'm able to see
any type of story that somebody tells, and I see
the humanity of that person in myself, no matter what
they And I know that there are certain things I
won't be able to relate to specifically because of their identity,
and I don't want to discount that. But I also
think we use that as an excuse to not try

(01:07:30):
to put ourselves in other people's shoes because it makes
us uncomfortable. We don't want to step on toes. And
it's like, you can love people for the square fact
that they are people and not need to step on
toes and all this other stuff. I don't know if
that makes sense, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
No, totally yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
And like having it be like again, just like having
the prerequisite be that something needs to be relatable for
you to be able to connect with it, which is
absolutely not true.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Bitch, stretch out your brain muscles like stop this, y'all.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
I teach in my screenwriting classes. Brag, I teach screenwriting classes.
Go to my website Kaitlyn Johntay dot com and sign
up for that centering yourself. I say, one of the
reasons that theme is so important as a writer to
be like cognizant of what theme you're putting forth is because,
like we relate to stories, not because the characters have

(01:08:21):
the same exact experience that we do, but because those
movies explore universally relatable themes that can be told via
any person, any type of person, from any background. But
the thing about privilege is that it tends to warp
your brain. And the more privilege you have, and the
more positions of privilege that you occupy, and especially if

(01:08:44):
you're just not an inherently empathetic person, you allow that
to warp you and to just turn an eye to
anyone who doesn't share that same privilege as you. So
that's why I think so many white people are like, well,
this movie is about black people, Well, how could I
possibly relate? This is not for me. There is no

(01:09:05):
world in which I could relate to any of these
storylines or any.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Of these characters, Like, I can't relate with this. I'm like,
you haven't seen the movie. You don't know that, like you.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
It's yeah, it's very first and then Save the Last
Dance is an interesting case study because the cast is
predominantly black, but because the protagonist is a white person.
You know, you discuss this in your video as well,
but it just means that now it's a bunch of
black characters propping up a white protagonist and being there

(01:09:35):
to support this white narrative in this white girl's you know,
struggle of self actualization.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Like and that's the thing that bothers me the most.
It's always this like privilege will give you, like you said,
it warps your brain, and it gives you this navel
gazing thing where everything is about you and everything is personal,
like people calling out the way the world is, which
she's like, open up your pretty brow and look at
the world, like you live in a different world than me.

(01:10:04):
Instead of taking that as an opportunity to look inwards more,
it's well, I want to be with this guy, and
like obviously these are all teenagers, so like okay, but
at the same time, like privileged kind of infantilizes you
too suretely you you really don't and difficult things become
way too hard to deal with because I'm like Darren's mama.

(01:10:25):
He doesn't know where she is. They don't know. Yeah,
shaneil is in high school and has a baby. Like, yes,
you lost your mom and that is very difficult. I'm
not going to ever discount that because losing a parent
is so difficult, But they also lost their parent and
are dealing with other stuff and are poor, like you
know what I mean, I'm just like girl like. But
it's an expectation. It's who, what bodies, what types of

(01:10:46):
bodies and people do we expect to be in those
positions versus the ones that we don't. And I think
this also works with like Western audiences. If you live
in America and Canada and you're a type person that
doesn't like to watch international movies because you can can't relate,
you could relate to many international quote unquote international films.
It's international because you don't live in that part of
the world. But anyway, like I think about that with

(01:11:08):
the movie qtis because I always will defend this movie
and people will always look at me sideways like talk about,
oh ah, please have me back for qties. I got
so much to say because I am gmbian and the
stories about a Senegalese girl Gmbhia's inside of Senegal. It's
a lot of similar cultures. Like I could watch the
movie without subtitles because I could understand the language they
were speaking when it wasn't French. But yeah, she did

(01:11:30):
a lot of work to try and talk to actual
girls that age, interviewed a bunch of them, had a
psychologist on set, all this other stuff, And people in
France and in Senegal were like, yeah, this is a
good movie, like it's pretty, you know whatever. But people
here were like, how dare you look at what you've
done to the children and blah blah blah blah, freaking
out about this stuff and trying to guise it under Well,

(01:11:50):
I'm never gonna watch that movie because it's just groom
or behavior and blah blah blah. And I'm like, y'all
have adults playing teenagers in TV shows having sex with teacher,
and you use it to justify that it's okay because
they're adults and you don't see the problem with that,
But you see an issue with this. You'll use any
excuse to not consider other perspectives when it challenges the

(01:12:13):
way you see the world.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
Oh, please come back and talk about cuties.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Oh my gosh, I yeah, I want to rewatch it to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
The problem around that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Lord, yeah I remember with Sarah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Yeah, I feel like she does have a problem and
like she has something to work through to the extent
that she's like lost her mom and she's.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Lost a parent.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
But like you're saying, like her problem or that what
she's working through is just more important. It's just more
important and the world has to bend to ushering her
through that problem, where like Sarah is present, but she
doesn't take initiative to help any of her friends through

(01:12:58):
their problems, and the movie doesn't have that ex to her.
Like the movie keeps being like she's the most amazing
girl to ever live, and you're just like she's going
through something, but she's like certainly.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
Not, you know, like she's really really hot.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
And I feel like we see a lot of people
in the movie apologizing to her uselessly.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Even at the end when Shaneil apologized her, like we're
still cool. I'm like, Okay, maybe Shanil didn't shouldn't have
been that, Like you get into tip with your friends,
she shouldn't have especially agree with Nikki is like that's
the animy bitch you agree, will buy op. But even
the way Sarah's like yeah, we're cool, but still has
an attitude I'm like, bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
You owe her an apology as well, Like it's just
like it's really yeah, like the world bends to solve
Sarah's problem and solve Sarah's life while like playing into
a lot of stereotypes that just like the whole thing
is really undercooked.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
It feels like, yes, that's a good word.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
And again it's a white protagonist but a predominantly black
cast otherwise, but I think like this movie was so
popular and like popular among my age bracket, and I
don't know if young people are still here. We probably not,
but I feel like they're like, Okay, how do we
make this movie that has a predominantly black cast palatable

(01:14:16):
to a mainstream white audience exactly? And it feels like
the movie just caters to that constantly, because again, like
Sarah is very rarely challenged. Anytime someone does challenge her,
she just like gets up and walks away and doesn't
do any introspection or like again, she doesn't learn or

(01:14:37):
grow except when it comes to learning hip hop and
then she.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Just which arguably she does what.

Speaker 4 (01:14:45):
She doesn't do very well either, but like the story
is told in such a way where it's like, Okay,
this is palatable for white audiences because we're just watching
her kind of just do whatever she wants, appropriate whatever
she wants, not learning lessons along the way, even though

(01:15:06):
they're like friend of the show. Jordaane Cyles has a
piece called White Girls, Better Black Women and Save the
Last Dance where she talks about how Shaneil was like
done so dirty and has like good points and is
actually challenging Sarah and saying like, look around you. You're
taught that there's only one world, but like black people

(01:15:28):
know differently. And rather than like Sarah being like, hmm,
maybe there's something to this, maybe I should, you know,
look at this from a different point of view, she
just like gets up and leaves the crowded like medical
facility that they're in, and she's just like, well, this
is making me uncomfortable, so I have to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
It's like you came with me to disappointment. I'm asking
you for help. Also, girl open and putting red eyes
you over here, sitting here, word about you, Jewel audition.
I got a baby that I did get care of. Yes,
Dad is trying my patience every two mins.

Speaker 5 (01:16:00):
It m h.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
It's like people will often depict black women as bitter
but not go into why they might be bitter for sure,
Why am I upset? Why am I angry? Because I
don't think being bitter or angry is a bad emotion
to have. I'm like, lean into the anger, lean into
your villain era, like, feel your feelings. But why is

(01:16:21):
it that me feeling those feelings makes you so uncomfortable
to the point where you have to walk away, or
you step away or I have to come and apologize
to you. No, bitch, I'm feeling something, I'm upset about it.
You're lucky I'm telling you and talking to you about
it instead of either ignoring you. But she refuses to engage.
And that's the thing with a lot of like, Yeah,
I always test white folks that a, I are you

(01:16:44):
to my life with how I can engage with them
on topics about race, because I'm like, I'm not going
to act like races in a thing like obviously I
want to see people's people. I'm a human ask you know,
But I'm also live in the real world and try
to think practically. And so if anytime I'm talking to
you about racial issues or things happening to people in
different parts of the world, and your immediate response is

(01:17:07):
to disengage, to like, I can't. You're showing me that
you can't deal with hard things or you don't want to.
You choose to not deal with hard things, which you're
allowed to when you have a certain amount of privilege,
when you live even in a certain part of the world,
when you have a certain amount of income. So then
I just know that you're not for me. And I
could not be friends with Sarah because I'd be like, girl,

(01:17:28):
Uh yeah, Nikki was annoying for what she said, but
she has a bit of a point. She's like, sorry,
she does she does a bro clock is right twice
a day.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
And Sarah refuses to even consider that there's any truth
to what NICKI saying, to what Daniels saying, and just
I don't know. It has this like superhuman ability to
make the takeaway from every scene be about her.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
You know what it is? Oh my god, Okay, I
had I have a few biracial friends, and one of
them one of my best friends. She says that her
fear is always her mom is white and her dad's black.
Fear is always that her mom would say some shit
like I'm not racist, I have black children. Like that's
always her deep fear. And I had never thought of
that before because I'm not biracial, and I remember being like,

(01:18:10):
oh my god, that is actually because people will. Sarah
thinks that she is standing in resistance, in solidarity and
defiance because she is dating a black guy.

Speaker 4 (01:18:20):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
It's given Kim Kardashian when she wrote that letter about
oh my god, I'm gonna have black children and I
can't believe that the world will treat them this way.
And Chris was like, really proud of you, Kim, and
I was like, go, your children are so fucking wealthy.
Your kids are not not to say that they might not.
They're gonna deal with stuff whatever, But like your kids

(01:18:44):
that will be able to have security get driven in
black tinted out window cars everywhere. Those are the black
kids you're worried about.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
I managed to wipe that that statement from my mind.
I'm forgot.

Speaker 6 (01:18:55):
Sorry, sorry, no, but there's this phenomenon of you know,
white people being like, well, I can't be racist, I
have a black friend, or I'm dating a black guy,
or like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Do you know a black person or you actually friends
with them? Because like a lot of y'all know black people,
but are you actually friends?

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
What do you have out?

Speaker 4 (01:19:15):
Do you go to their house? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
This? Yeah, I'm like, And also you need to have
more than like this is the other thing. You need
to make a conscious effort of some people. You can't
help where you live, right unless you have the money
to move places. So if you live in areas where
you're only seeing black people, like you don't see black
people that much, and the only interaction you have is
through the media, different types of media, not just TV
shows and movies, advertising, whatever. When you meet a black person,

(01:19:39):
you're using your frame of reference. What do you know
about black people? Even if it's not you intentionally doing it,
it's like a knee jerk response. We're always sussing out places,
always trying to suss out information. Whatever. If I had
never seen a white person before, and I watch movies
all the time white people in it, girl, I'm using
a stereotypes first, because I'm like, is that you're gonna
be able to handle this icy food? You know?

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
Like shit, like that, But yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
I also have grown up in so many different types
of environments where I've been in predominantly black spaces, predominantly
Hispanic schools, predominantly white schools as well, So like, yeah,
it's interesting when you note that people have never had
to go out of their comfort zones in terms of
their physical identity and how little we mix or integrate.

Speaker 4 (01:20:26):
Actually, I can speak to the experience of growing up
in a predominantly white community. I grew up in a
small rural town in western Pennsylvania. There was very, very
very little racial or ethnic diversity, and of course I'm

(01:20:47):
going to and I did harbor racial biases growing up.
I didn't know any better, And like you said, my
frame of reference was in the media I was consuming.
And it wasn't until I went to college and actually
like met and befriended people who weren't white and started
to learn and interrogate. And I had to do so

(01:21:07):
much unlearning of like what I had learned as far
as stereotypes and tropes and the idea of systemic racism
was something I was only like peripherally understanding and familiar with,
and I had to do so much work to learn
more about it. So, yes, these are real things. But
the problem is that most people who do have this

(01:21:29):
white privilege, like we said, it warps them and they
don't want to be bothered. They don't feel like it's
their place to comment on it or to think about it.
It doesn't affect them, So why would they, you know,
spend the time to do anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Yeah, I mean even conversely, I grew up in a
predominantly black and Hispanic neighborhood and that because I feel
like the way that this is presented is that, like
Julius Diles, by being a white girl in a predominantly
black space, that's all it takes to do the work
is just by like hanging out.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
For a couple of weeks. And it's like, that's absolutely
not true.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
There are white people in my community that are tremendously racist.
Like it's just feels like it's this very movie presentation
that sets the bar it like sub zero, like in
the core of the earth to be like to actually
have engaged with any issue on race, which again, like

(01:22:27):
we were talking about, Sarah doesn't. She does not engage,
like she's around.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
But she combatd that white lady in the train and
that was it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
She defeated racism, the lady, and you're just like, it's
just I don't know. I mean, I guess it does
go back to your point, like it's just like unbelievably Hollywood,
and it's like the problem of racism has to be solved,
and it's like the stakes are the same as getting
into Juilliard in spite of having no talent, and like
these are the two and they're equally important because fucking

(01:23:01):
who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
When you said you grew up in probably black and
Hispanic neighborhood, I was like, I'm always fascinated by white
people like that. Not because I'm like, what was that like,
but just because I'm like, okay, so you've grown up
around in proximity to people, and you felt what it
has been like to be a minority. I think more
than anything, too many people don't experience what it's like

(01:23:23):
to be a minority somewhere, and so they don't ever
consider again that practicing the empathy muscle of oh no,
I get that actually, because I know what it feels
like on a human. As you were saying before, themes right,
like a universal theme of feeling like a fish out
of water, feeling out of place somewhere, feeling like the
only whatever whatever somewhere. A lot of people don't ever

(01:23:45):
have to have that experience, even when we travel to places.
You know, people will go to resorts and whatever just
so they don't have to be around the locals. And
like it's just kind of you know, it's very like
we really don't like to let go of our company.
People don't like to be uncomfortable, and you know, but
that was before nine to eleven. Baby, Sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
Then everything ja a little bit like.

Speaker 4 (01:24:10):
Sarah's like white discomfort is something that we see throughout
the movie, and it's just like, no, it was actually
fine for her to walk away from that conversation with
Shanil where Shanil is making good points, and but because
it made Sarah the white girl uncomfortable, she has to leave.

(01:24:32):
And then it's actually Shanil who owes Sarah an apology
by the end, and it's just like.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
For making her uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
This is like off topic, but like I have some
issues with how like self care.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
Stuff is sort of present, like mental health.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
I think that a lot of like mental health languages
has been co opted to get people out of uncomfortable
conversations they need to be having it that they don't
want on.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
A video about therapy speak Oh my god, wait in
my spirit.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
It's gonna be crash landed into my algorithm. It's like,
I mean, it is wild. I think that there is
a like self care lend you can apply to that
scene where we're saying that Julia Styles's character is clearly wrong,
where it's like she had to protect her energy from
the discomfort. She doesn't need to engage with that, which
is just like telegraphic that like she doesn't need to

(01:25:22):
engage with issues around race and poverty because they don't
affect her. And you're just like, ugh, well I'm excited
for that video.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Thank you, poor Malachi.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Okay, Malaki deserved more too, because he was there was
a lot. There was masculinity, your respect, a particular black masculinity,
and what does that do that expectation, especially when you
don't have, as he's saying, like the smarts, like allegedly
he doesn't have the smarts like Derek like to go
to Georgetown. He's like, this is what I have. I'm like, okay,

(01:25:54):
that's something. Oh but no, no, he's just a mean,
he was abusive and terrible, so yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
You know, right, And it's like Malachi doesn't really have
a chance with the audit because we see him being
physically abusive to a student, but.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
We don't see the nice part of him. We only
hear though, like he was willing to go to Juvie
for Derek, which is an admirable trait to do. Like
these like they threw everything at him and he said,
I'm not gonna snitch. Like there could have been even
that moment when he came to Julia Styles. I forgot
what had happened before I watched it, so I thought
he was gonna come up to her and try to

(01:26:30):
like talk to her or like say something. I don't know,
I just thought that maybe there was gonna be a
conversation there instead of just your oil and milk. But
I'm also like, maybe maybe all of these characters are
defensive and apprehensive round Julia because it don't seem like
she wants to listen, so they're all like, bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
Right, you white right? Could be that, And on top
of that, she's weird and.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
And she's not very good at dancing. Yeah, what I
found interesting about that especially the Malachi Derek friendship. Is
something that I observe a lot among men and their
friendships with each other. Is that someone who has seen
a different side of a person will say like, Hey,

(01:27:15):
that guy was really shitty to me, or I saw
that guy doing something really awful, maybe you shouldn't be
friends with him, and the guy's like, well, I haven't
seen that. I've only seen the good side of him.
So I don't believe you, Slash. I don't think what
you're saying is valid. This is a thing that I mean,
just speaking to my experience as a comedian, there will

(01:27:38):
be like male comedians who are singing the praises of
another male comedian. I'll be like, oh, that's interesting because
that guy like sexually harassed me, and then they're like,
well he was nice to me.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
So yoh, you are right. That is the point to
bring up too, because that's the other thing. It's like,
I wish that they would have explored their friendship more
so that at least we as the audience understand why
Derek has such an allegiance to this guy that just
seems like he hates women in general, not just white women,
but especially white women.

Speaker 4 (01:28:05):
Yeah, yeah, but the movie glosses over that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
I feel like the way the Malachite character is handled
is super messy, where it's like from it feels like
the empathy that the movie has for him changes from
scene to scene depending on what needs to happen in
the scene, and so it just comes off super messy.
Some of the lines he says are funny, such as
that the black man's life madness in mayhem, and I
was like, what the what.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
This is the other thing? This is where sorry, go ahead,
before I just put.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
It that that was the end of that particular thought.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
It just I almost sound like an angry, bitter black feminist,
but like, you know what, actually they deserved each other
because what big Black men will try to victimize themselves
as much as white women will sometimes, And I'm just like, there,
y'all go ahead. Not obviously I'm not talking about all
black men are all all white women, because I gotta
say it that because y'all be like, yeah, but truly

(01:29:05):
must be a day ending and why when a black
man says that's a black man's world madness and mayhem?
So that's why you had that girl yoked up in
the bathroom.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Right like they're all I just yeah, that friendship felt
like under examined. I mean, which gets to something that
I was feeling sort of throat the movie, where it's like,
the movie has obviously an interest in Derek and in Chanel,
but like not to the same extent that they're interested
in Sarah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
So there's stuff that will.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
Be introduced to us that kind of just goes away,
or the movie's attitude kind of flip flops, because it
seems like what's important to the movie is that Sarah's
journey is on track and consistent, and so if things
get a little sloppier to the characters around her, no
big deal.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
I have a question for y'all, do you know what
the plot of say, the Last Dance to Is it
the same thing where it's another white girl that goes
into a black.

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
I've never seen it. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
So my understanding is that it's a continuation of Sarah's story,
although it's not played by Julia Stiles, so it's like,
I think it's just Juilliard. Okay, wait, let me, I'm
on the Wikipedia thing. Okay, so yes, she's a Juilliard.
She's now played by Isabella Miko, who is in Coyote

(01:30:23):
Ugly apparently.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Okay, Coyote Ugly.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Now, sorry, here's a sentence that jumped out at me.
Oh no, I'm pretty sure she just gets a different
black boyfriend at Juilliard.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
During orientation.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
On her first day at Juilliard, Sarah meets Miles Sultana,
who takes her for a trombone player. When she what what,
I don't know, she's air they're in not a ballet dancer.

Speaker 3 (01:30:52):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
When she tells him she is there for ballet, he
questions whether she is a ballerina. Sarah boldly states she's
already a ballerina. She is there to become a came
at ballerina. So she just dates another guy actually.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
By Columbus Short.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Yeah, yes, of course it's Columbus Store. He was in
all those dance movies. Okay, yeah, where is it him?

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
Is he in Stumpy Ard?

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Yes? Okay, yeah, fucking love.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
Stop the art, this whole decade of dance movies. You're
just like, my god.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Let's have fun again. Bring back the dance movie.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
Yah, let's right one.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Let's do a dance movie, my dream movie. Since you're
a screenplay writer, I'm going to give you this idea
and like, if it ever comes to fruition, I just
want to be a little percentage. It's like an enemy's
to lovers cheerleader rivalry where the two captains are you know,
they're the femme girlies, but they're enemy teams and then

(01:31:51):
they both end up at a gay conversion camp and
have to break out together and that's how they become lovers.
And while that's happening on the inside, on the outside
their team are coming together to try and like, I
don't know what the plot is.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Bring it on, but I'm a cheerleader, like pallidation.

Speaker 4 (01:32:07):
That's so great. I'm not a writer.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
I'm big ideas, but when it comes to sitting down
and writing it, I'm like, girl, I don't know, this
is hard.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
Oh goodness, No, that sounds like a great story. But yeah,
say the last dance to I haven't seen it. I
can't really.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Say save the last dance to the streets Havannah Knight.

Speaker 3 (01:32:38):
Now we've done them all, does anyone?

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
I guess? Havanah Knights is probably another example of that
of like white girl goes into Spanish culture and learns
how to dance. I haven't seen it though, so I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
I love Dirty Dance and Cavena Nights. It was my
introduction to Diego Luna.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
He's the romantic lead in it, and a picture them
now that was on heavy sleepover rotation. Unfortunately, Baby Diego
Luna Bragg.

Speaker 4 (01:33:10):
Does anyone have anything else they would like to talk about?

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Oh gosh, I feel like we could keep talking for
hours truly, I'm like, what is this movie?

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Yeah? I was like, are there any other lines that
I particularly thought were interesting?

Speaker 4 (01:33:25):
I do think it's hilarious that Shaneil is like she,
you know, dreams of going to fashion school and she
like designs and like puts together all these outfits. But
I'm like, are her outfits good? Because I feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
Yeah, they should have thought more about that. Not very
they should have thought more about that, like just the
way and I know she like styled her in the
car and stuff and like did that quick change whatever?
But yeah, they don't really like they give.

Speaker 3 (01:33:50):
Yeah, we need more about that. We need more Shaneil.
In general, it was like, I don't know enough about
two thousand and one.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
Well, I feel like I missed opportunity that I thought
because we learn about Shanil and Derek's mom really late
in the plot, Like it's presented as a twist that
is not a twist, and it's like, why couldn't we
have just learned this earlier. It's because the movie doesn't
care about them the same way it cares about Sarah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
But that felt like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
Because and again, this is like a plot point that
is like riddled with stereotypes. But their mom is absent.
It's described that she's in jail quote for drugs ellipses,
for things women do for drugs ellipses, And you're like, okay,
but even if we're just taking the plot point that
Sarah and Shanil's mother are both absent, they're not like

(01:34:39):
that is like a chance for an opportunity, a chance
to connect like something.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
Early on, Yeah, I lost whatever. But also this is
the part where I was like, ah, y'all should have
let the black people leave because Mama Dean would have
come around the corner and been like, yet them drugs
the Reagan planet. You know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:00):
Yeah, well to that point as far as like I'm
not even sure why Shanil takes Sarah under her wing,
like and then do Derek and Sarah have anything in common,
aside from the fact that they've both read Capodi and
have opinions on it that they read for class. I

(01:35:21):
just it feels like another like undercooked romance where it's like,
what do they like about each other?

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
Yeah, they have common.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
Derek toes the line of being in his world, but
also he wants to go to Georgetown, and he knows
about Capodi and he's a black intellectual, so like there's
a certain like he's classed differently than the people around
him because of that intelligence and because of the way
he can talk and how he can code switch and

(01:35:50):
go back and forth. He doesn't really code switch that much,
but like, you know, just like he's teeters that line
I guess of being black but not Malachi or snooky black.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
Right, So is the movie implying that because he is
like quiet intellectual, then he like it makes sense for
him to be with a white person.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
Like I don't know if much I got the vibe
of like less that and more like maybe it's a
respectability thing of like, Okay, we want to show different
depictions of black folks, so we have the nerdy black
dudes for a quick second, but Derek is a black
man that like anyone would want, not even just black women,
but even a white girl would want. He's smart, he

(01:36:33):
is driven, Like that's what she Neiel's talking about. She's like,
he's gonna make something of his life. He's not gonna
have kids and just leave them, like and we don't
have enough of that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:42):
And I'm like, oh no, it's bleak. I will say
to pay this movie a tiny little compliment, even though
it doesn't handle anything thoughtfully that at this time, the
early two thousands, very few movies featured an interracial relationship.

(01:37:07):
We very rarely saw interracial kiss time with Jungle Fever.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
And that was the eighties, which.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
Fucking fever. I saw the Guard.

Speaker 4 (01:37:22):
Yeah, sure, there are a few exactly nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:37:25):
It was rare. It was pretty rare for a while.
You got like one a decade.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 4 (01:37:31):
And like movies that maybe had almost like an implied
interracial romance, such as like Men in Black where it's
like Will Smith and then I forget the actor's name,
but they don't kiss. There's no interracial kiss on screen
in many cases.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
So I was like, okay, bad boys as well.

Speaker 4 (01:37:50):
I think, yeah, I feel like we had that same
conversation yeah, on that episode as well. Point is that
there was very little representation of inter racial relationships or
like physical contact at this time. Not that it's necessarily
a representation when as far as how that relationship plays out,

(01:38:11):
but it is representation.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
See the thing with representation, if there is more, more
of it, just more of it. The clumsy versions that
come through, they're not as big a deal, you know,
like it's it's not as big a deal, say, the
last dance is like, okay, cute whatever, But because there
are so few and far between, and because if one
doesn't do well immediately, it's like, well that's a wrap,

(01:38:40):
you know. It's just like, yeah, let's just allow ourselves
to make more bad depictions so that we can have enough.

Speaker 4 (01:38:48):
And more pictures of it just like being normalized, rather
than because like a lot of the discourse between the
characters in this movie are characters discussing is this a
good idea? Should interracial relationships happen? Whereas if it's more
representation of just like two people who are in love

(01:39:09):
and they're together and they happen to be an interracial couple,
and that's just presented as a perfectly normal thing. Yeah,
but we were getting very little of that at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
Are there any movies that y'all can think of, movies
or TV shows that you can think of where they've
had an interracial couple of like any mix that you've
been like, Ah, this was a pretty interesting take.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
I feel like I've pointed out different examples of this
on various episodes. I can't even remember the movies anymore,
but I know I've made the comment of like, oh,
this is an interracial couple where no attention is brought
to it. It's just presented as like a very normalized
thing we covered.

Speaker 2 (01:39:47):
I don't think that this is necessarily the best example.
We covered something New last year and that that was
another movie about interracial relationships that was a little all
over the place.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
But it's like, yeah, there you go, we haven't covered
it yet.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
But oh, Romeo must die. Listen, I'm not gonna lie.
I fucking love rob Let's Die.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
That's really brand Thank you, thank you, yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
I thought this was a safe space. I'm just looking up. Yeah,
something new is on there a fellow.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
Oh oh, I guess Brandy Cinderella. I guess that is cere.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Brandy Cinderella is the perfect example of that, because they
really just let us pop into a fantasy world and
have fun. I wish Predess would have done that from
the beginning. Just do that, Just do that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
I feel like we see interracial couples in media more
today than we used to, certainly, but at least in
this era it is. I mean, but there were also
other movies that featured interracial couples, in dance movies, specifically
around yes this time, like it was a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
They're bringing two worlds together.

Speaker 2 (01:41:00):
Exactly, and it always center as usually a white girl
who's like learning tolerance and a little something about herself,
and you're like, all right, that's the one.

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
Yeah, real quick. I wanted to point out there's that
moment where Sarah is given the fake ID so that
she can get into Steps, where at least fifty percent
of the movie takes place. It seems they never go
anywhere else, it's always Steps, And she's given this fake
ID and Sarah sees the photo and she's like, oh,

(01:41:38):
she's ugly. She's fat, oh girl, And that is just
a thing that Sis said in the movie without being challenged,
and that was pretty nasty.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
She's twenty one.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
Right, and see.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Yeah, there's I mean there's a lot of parts of
this view I mean, or very of the era in
just kind of like dismissive and weird ways.

Speaker 3 (01:42:05):
It's an extremely two thousand and one movie.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Yeah, in any case, does this movie pass the Bechdel test?

Speaker 3 (01:42:14):
Uh? Yeah it does. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
I mean, you know that's the positive we can say.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
That is just further proof that it's you know, it's
one metric invented as a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:42:27):
But it does. It does pass.

Speaker 4 (01:42:28):
It does pass.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
Yeah, at least between Sarah and Shaneil And then I
also think between Sarah and her mom in the two
seconds in this movie where she is alive, yes, where
she's like, come on, and then her mom's like it's
a florist emergency or fucking whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Sure, also between Sarah and Nikki when they are yeah fighting.
But yeah, it does pass. But what about our metric,
the most important media metric ever conceived, the nipple scale
zero to five nipples, and we raid it. Based on
examining the movie through an intersectional feminist, lens I would

(01:43:05):
not rate this movie highly.

Speaker 1 (01:43:08):
The minute she said intersectional feminist, lens I was like, ooh,
I gotta take off two more points.

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So honestly, I mean it
was a very two thousand and one attempt to examine
something that the movie did not have the capacity to
examine meaningfully at all, and based on how it's basically

(01:43:36):
just a movie about a white girl who appropriates black culture,
and any time that anyone calls her out or she's
made to feel uncomfortable, the movie is just like, yeah,
can't you sense how uncomfortable she is? And isn't that
too bad? And they need to apologize to her for it, right.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
And they can't.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
She's doing her best. It's such a hard situation for
her to be in, can't you see that? And it's
just like, no, all of the framing around that is
really quite silly. So I'll give it a half nipple
for showing an interracial kiss in two thousand and one.

Speaker 1 (01:44:21):
Yes, I thought I was mean I was gonna give
it one point three nipples.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
Oh, I mean, please unpack it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:30):
But that's only because they employed more black people. That's
literally it. Because black people were on the payroll.

Speaker 4 (01:44:36):
A lot of people got a paycheck.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
Yes, whether that paycheck was good is uh, but.

Speaker 4 (01:44:42):
You know, I mean, based on Carrie Washington's anecdote about
having to return to teaching after this movie because she
couldn't quit her day job because what you would think
would have been a role that should have paid the
bills for a while, Uh didn't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:58):
So oops, I'm gonna go one nipple.

Speaker 2 (01:45:01):
I think, Yeah, this movie is not doing very much
and I don't know, I don't think I have anything
else to add to it. It's just like a movie
with a predominantly black cast that still manages to be
about a white woman. It's kind of like, holy shit,
it's they really.

Speaker 1 (01:45:20):
The bamboozled us. They it was deceptive.

Speaker 2 (01:45:23):
Yeah, I got us also not for nothing, like I
know what we are mostly.

Speaker 3 (01:45:28):
Talking about the themes, the characters.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
It's boring. This movie's boring. There's long stretches of it
that I was bored.

Speaker 4 (01:45:37):
And the dancing isn't fun to watch because it's.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
No three D and step up two like the ship
was like they were doing so they were dancing.

Speaker 4 (01:45:47):
There's a reason I own Stomps the Yard on DVD.
It is fun to match.

Speaker 1 (01:45:51):
You admitting you own Stop Yard on DVD. You ow
that movie DVD?

Speaker 4 (01:45:58):
Probably when did it come out? Like two thousand seven.

Speaker 1 (01:46:02):
So you have an old ooh wow.

Speaker 4 (01:46:04):
I bought it in like as soon as it came
out on DVD because I saw it in the theaters twice.

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
I don't know anybody else that had owes that movie,
like just no one, not race or anything. I just
don't know anyone that owes that movie or saw that
movie twice in theaters.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
I can't explain it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:27):
I just listen. I spoke to love Romeo must Die so.
And my favorite problematic movie is The Hot Chick. It
is so.

Speaker 3 (01:46:36):
Problem I have never seen it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:39):
I have so much fun watching that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:46:41):
It has come back kitties in The Hot Chicks.

Speaker 1 (01:46:43):
Rachel McAdams one of her first movies. A young Ashley
Simpson is in there as a little cameo.

Speaker 3 (01:46:49):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
It's yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:46:51):
Well anyway, there you have it. That's our save of
the last Dance episode. Kadita, thank you so much for
joining us. It's been an absolute treat. Please come back
us or please any movie I love, Coots or literally anything.
Where can people check out your work? Follow you online?
Plug away.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
You can find me at Kadija dot bo on TikTok, Instagram.
What's that other one? I don't go on X but
I have one. You can find me on YouTube. Just
look up Kadijimbo.

Speaker 3 (01:47:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
And if you want to check out some of the
stuff that I'm doing that isn't online related, Operatica, the
pole opera show that I'm producing. You know, the landing
page just says coming soon, but the image is pretty cute,
so check it out and follow the Instagram Operatica Events.
That's O p e r A t I k A

(01:47:46):
Events amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:47:48):
Hell yeah, and if you can check us out on
social media at Bechdelcast, you can go to our Matreon
where again, rather than releasing this saved the last dance
episode there, which was our original intention, we swapped it
out for a burlesque episode, so you can.

Speaker 2 (01:48:06):
Really pritch discussion going on over there as well as
flash Dance. And that's five bucks a month for two
new episodes every month and access to our entire back catalog.
You can also get our birch over at teapublic dot
com Slash the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 1 (01:48:25):
Woo.

Speaker 4 (01:48:26):
And with that, let's go to our Juilliard audition. But
be careful, don't get in a car because it's gonna crash.

Speaker 1 (01:48:37):
Jesus, Bye Bye.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by
Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lickterman, edited
by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike
Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch
is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to
Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

(01:49:06):
linktree slash Bechtelcast

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