August 24, 2017 • 58 mins
We pledge allegiance, to the Bechdel Class, of Caitlin and Jamie, and our special guest Nina Corcoran will not fight us, for creative control, and will defer to them to all issues related to the musical direction of our School of Rock episode!
(This episode contains spoilers)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Welcome to the
Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin,
and this is our podcast where we talk about the
(00:20):
role of women and boy is it? I mean, girl
is it? How was it planned? Was it planned? I
don't know. I'm nervous about this episode because I've only
rewatched the movie once. I've had yourself of an I
p A. Do you remember the time where I didn't
(00:41):
watch the movie at all? On admitte it weeks later
the Matrix The Matrix episode, go back and listen if
you want to hear some high level bullshit. I still
haven't seen The Matrix to this day. Oh man, it's
pretty good. You wouldn't like it. I pretended to not
like it, and I felt like that was maybe at
the right I felt like I wasn't gonna like it.
(01:02):
My arm is covered. There's some sort of there's some
creepy crawleys in my house and they're eating me up,
and so every time I leave my house, I've been
spraying like my entire floor in like bug poison, but
they've evolved and they're I My whole forearm is covered
in Okay, life finds a way. Don't eat this is
(01:23):
our episode. Oh no, I'm going to keep bringing it
back to Jurassic Park. I. Well, we were saying that
today's movie is what you are to Jurassic Park, as
today's movie is to me, and then I like it
and you're like, that's fine. I'm ambivalent, will say right,
I know, and our guests could not be more excited. Well,
it's three against one because Aristotle also loves this movie.
(01:46):
Aristotle was reciting lines with me. It was exciting. People
love this movie and okay, so let's just get into it.
The movie Today as a School of Rock, directed by
Richard link Later two thousand and three, and our guest,
I'm so excited. She's one of my best friends in
the whole world. She is the music editor for a
(02:06):
Dig Boston. She's written for pitch Fork asquoiir NPR. It's
Nina Congrass. I just knocked over your ice cream, which
is also on talking about school from I feel like
we've probably eaten ice cream with disposable knives and talked
(02:28):
to most School of Rock more than one time. I
have like a very vivid memory of us being maybe
a little bit intoxicated once or maybe sober. It could
have gone either way, but we went to it two desk.
He's because you wanted to. You wanted to check in
on four square before you bought a pint of ven
and Jerry's so that the time of Vena Jerry's would
(02:50):
be free. I used to do that all worked. Where
is this thing where you would get a discount code?
For sure doesn't do it anymore. But we're right you
checked in the most. You're the man and through the merits.
So a lot of history on the cast today we're
talking about School of Okay, well, let's first discuss our
(03:11):
history of this movie. K When did you see this
movie for the first time. I believe I saw it
either right when it first came out in oh three
or sometimes shortly after that. I don't know if I
saw in theaters or not, but I only saw it
that once until I then rewatched it the other day
to prepare for this episode. You said you can only
watch it in five minute chunks. Personally, I was triggered.
(03:33):
I look mad, Max fury Ron, I think the better
comperson say that movie. Do you just not like Jack Black?
That only I found? Don't like it? Don't? Well? I mean, yeah,
it's impossible. I certainly no, I really don't. I'm a
wretched person with no heart. I thought I liked him, okay,
(03:54):
up until rewatching this movie, and then I was like,
I find him. Well, here's the thing. I like my
comedy to be a little more subtle than he delivers.
It's a Jack Black vehicle, and he's so subtle in
his defense, it's a very nuanced performance. Okay, I can't
argue with that. However, he's just never not mugging the
(04:17):
fuck out of whatever scene he's in, and he's just
like the shot of the eyebrow truly says it all,
Like could you be leaning into this anymore? I still
love it? But yeah, I saw it when it came
out and then again and now I'm just like, yeah,
I don't. I don't think I like this movie so
a more accurate thing than Jurassic Park, which again I'm
(04:40):
going to keep bringing up today is I don't care
for this movie. You didn't care for Mad Max. You
said you like Jurassic Park. Okay, I feel like that's
a more appropriate comparison. I hated Bad Max and I
hate Steampunks, and I was like, I was at Comic
Con this weekend, and I was it was a real
best of the spirit. A few casualties, but not as
(05:03):
many as one would think. I first saw this movie
in theaters memorably. I think I've told I've actually talked
about this with you before. Because I grew up in Brockton, Massachusetts.
My cousin and I went to see this movie with
our aunt or her mom my aunt, and someone in
the movie theater got stabbed in the foot. Sometime during
the second act of School of Rocket. We all had
(05:25):
to leave. I'd come back another day to see the
end of School. We saw it from the beginning, but
we didn't know how it ended for days, and we
were and at the time like there was Google, but
we were ten, we didn't really use it, so we
were just like, I wonder if they win. I wonder
if they can even go to the Battle of the
Bit Because someone got stabbed in the foot and the
(05:45):
movie Gunner was closed shortly after then, we had the VHS.
I've seen this movie easily twenty times. It's like one
of my favorites of all time. It's so good. That
was your experience of the movie. I feel like I
shouldn't list how many times I've seen it. Please, it's
definitely over fifty. It's way maybe not incredible, probably, i'd
(06:08):
hope so I can't stop. But my earliest memory is
on a road trip and watched that movie, just only
that movie, the whole trip, over and over. I watched
it once and then I watched it with subtitles, and
then I watched the director's cut, and then I watched
the one with all the commentary of them talking and
then which is really good. It is it's so because
(06:30):
they're like all young talking about it and getting excited
seeing themselves on the screen. Yeah, this movie it rules.
It's so. It's so good. I mean that, right. There
is four times in one car a lot of people.
And I think that we were talking about before Nina
got here, that I think that the age you were
when this movie came out is critical to how you
(06:51):
feel about the movie, because we were the exact right
Aristotle was too. We were all ten or eleven when
this movie came out and the movies about ten or
eleven year olds starting a band with Jack Black, and
that still sounds like and now it's like, maybe that's
a little perverted, but at the time, it was like, yeah,
I want him to be my teacher. He's so cool. Yeah,
(07:13):
I was like a sixteen probably and I was too
cool for school. But it probably really good. I don't.
I think it has its merits, but merits School Rock,
(07:34):
it's merits well. One of the reasons I am a
it's uh, well, look sorry. One of the reasons that
I'm a wretched person is that I do not like children.
I don't like movies that start children and child actors.
You hate a child actors, get them out of here.
(07:54):
I hate most child actors, but all the child actors
in this movie I have a crush on. So so
it's different. I mean, and they're ten or eleven. That's
better than when you have like a six year old
in a movie. No thank you. But even so, the
cast is largely children, and I cannot get behind it.
Do not endorse most only a children who never work again.
(08:17):
But with the exception of one Miranda Cosgrove, who one
might argue it was a star making role for her.
If by star making you mean I carly eventually, wait,
which character is that summer Um band manager they sleep
with the band? Sloot shaming this movie, okay, but but
(08:41):
I think that's on Jack back because he made the
children groupies, well and groupies, but he could have induced historically.
But he also the cheerleaders for it, and I feel
like they're because that's the thing that seems weird. But
then they're the ones charged with like designing the clothing,
coming up with the name, and they're really excited about it.
And then obviously when Summer isn't, he's like gives her
(09:04):
the biggest job possible, but mainly band manager. He never
actually tells her how to do it or what to do.
He lets her decide the figuring out how to be
a leader. She reads that whole book and then later
they're like, she's Upsas with David Gavin, just some quick
stats on this movie before we get into the recap.
This movie was the most successful musical comedy ever until
(09:29):
pitch Perfect Too like to which I refused to see
because of that. I am like, pitch Perfect franchise needs
to grow up and let School of Rock habits place
in history. So this is a Richard Linklner movie. Let's
name some big ones. Because I have seen a handful
of his movies. I have not like a super fan, sure,
(09:49):
but so my favorite of his is Before Sunrise, Before Sunset,
I can take earl before Midnight. Maybe I need to
revisit it. But those first two, especially of the Floor trilogy,
I haven't seen. They are so fucking good. I love
them so much. I hate romance movies. I hate romance
in general. I hate children. I hate everything that's good
about the world. Can I say it? Yeah? So Caleen
(10:12):
loves Before Sunrise so much that she has a sketch
on the World Wide Web that is a Before Sunrise
Twilight crossover and it's really good. Thanks checking on her
work out before Twilight on the Internet. Once you know
what it is, I just didn't know what it was
at first, but then once I saw I understood. It's
(10:34):
a low budget production written and edited by a wow
budget Caitlin torante Um, It's it's it's the Nindie Faith,
but Nindy Darlin. Linklater is also famous. Link Later is
also famous for Days Used Boyhood and then Last year
(10:55):
he did Everybody Wants Some, which I did see, which
can suck my ass. Did not like it, Richard. Okay,
we'll get into let's let's go through a School of Rock,
which I think we can all agree as his best movie.
I I mean I legitimately, of what I've seen of
his I like School Rock better than Days to Confuse.
I like it better than Boyhood. I like it better
(11:16):
than Everybody Wants Them. I'm pretty sure that's all I've seen.
Hearing of you, and I can say it's still great. However,
many years later than when I first saw, even the
joke about fucking kids is still funny. How many movies,
and I think they touched me too, It's so funny. Okay,
let's do the recap. All right, this is going to
(11:37):
be a fun one. It's gonna be so Nina, so
you know, interjections allowed, but Kaitlin is also allowed to
yell back. I oh god, Okay. School of Rock is
the story of Dewey Finn Fin. He's so cool man.
He's in a rock band with Adam Pesk out of
(12:00):
Rent and Aita And that person was in the Once musical?
Is that the one with the longer Hair's like, Dooey,
we're friends. Man, No, wait, was that a little any
one who's in his band? Yeah, he's I want to
see with my mom. And I was like, oh my god,
I'm star Schuck the man from School up Rock. I
was obsessed with Adam Pesco. He's great in this movie.
(12:22):
He's like because he's like, I'm sure loss and you
don't fit in. You're not enough for the band. But
so Dewey Finn. He's in a rock band. He loves
rock music. He does too many guitar solos at their
shows and the band's like, well, we're gonna take you out.
He's like no. Meanwhile, his roommate ned Mike White, who
(12:43):
also wrote the movie. He has a girlfriend played by
Sarah Silverman. Shrew number one, call her Shrew number one.
She's one of three shrews that to Peven throughout the film, right,
Shrew number one is like, you need to start paying rent, Dowey,
you're freeloading too much. Tara Selverman a job. Yeah, she's
wearing a turtle like. I think she's treated Of all
(13:07):
the female characters, I think she's she's treated the worst.
Agree and her talents are so wasted in this movie.
She's so, I hope she paid her rent for three
years off of having to wear all those turtle likes. Yeah,
so she's like, you gotta start paying rent. And Dewey
he's down on his luck. He's all out of sorts.
(13:28):
And then he gets a phone call intended for his
roommate Ned, but it's from this prestigious private school and
that and I do love that. The first act is
really like the inciting incident is a good old fashioned
landline mix up. Couldn't happen today, the little hello. This
isn't like great part anyways. So they give him a
(13:52):
call and Dewey answers, and they're looking for a substitute teacher,
which he's also. Mind you, he's in the middle of
getting calls trying to sell his gear, plawning it off
as like ridiculous things, which it is not, but making
an effort to make rent selling things he doesn't want
to sell them mean a lot to write, which he
makes clear is for his Mike White is the first
(14:13):
person I remember in my entire life realizing that you
could have blonde eyelashes. Didn't know so he so he
says specifically and this is another reason where it's like
no one is nice to Sarah Silverman in this movie.
Everyone's afraid of her. Or he's like, I'll do it
for you, but not for that turtleneck, bitch. You know.
(14:35):
He doesn't say it, but I think he almost says
worse anyways, but yes, it's implied either way. So he
gets this call and he pretends to be ned, and
so he goes to this school pretending to be a
substitute teacher. And it's a classroom full of all these
young youths of America and they're accustomed to a very
(14:57):
strict academic regiment and they're like, are you going to
teach us or what? And he's just like, oh, I'm
hung over. And he's very not into it. He's really
just there to try to make some another exchange. I
didn't know what hungover meant when I saw this movie.
Literally teaches you that mean you're drunk, just drunk yesterday.
I means you're an alcoholic. No, it doesn't, which isn't
(15:19):
always true. That's a more square rectangle thing. Uh. So
he's having a hard time connecting with these kids at first,
and then he's like, wait a minute, what if I
start teaching the music, So forget about the eye out part. Yeah,
because he hears because he hears him playing music and
goes and it's like, dang right. He says that without words. Yeah,
(15:43):
he just the eyebrows say it all and then some
the whole script, he as each wave. Some people are
not going to like the eyebrow wave. But I think
that he saved about three pages of dialogue with the
eyebrow right, Because so Principal Joan Cuza comes in, She's like,
it's time for their music lessons. So he hears them
(16:04):
playing music. He's like, wait a minute, there are musicians.
This kid plays the acoustic guitar. I can teach him
how to play electric guitar. This other girl plays the cello.
She's now the base. So he like, which, by the way,
in saying that in this world, Jack Black has never
heard of a cello, He's like, what was that cello
you've got? That's also she says like two or three
(16:26):
lines in the whole movie, and that's one of them.
But also I'm pretty sure that's because of a choice
thing really ill, because I looked at she's like one
of were also talked because First of all, she was
hashtag arizontal's crush of the movie. Second of all, she
and I were born on the exact same date. So
you played bass so cello it's a base um. But
(16:48):
also she was also never in anything ever. Again, she
did do her own you know, way too much. She
did her own YouTube series of her playing music really
under her real name. I think she changed the name
of it. I wish I remembered it right now, But
she did a really long time because all those people
who had a crush on her found like, oh my god,
she did become the music girl of my dream, Rebecca Brown.
(17:10):
It's actually became Rebecca Black and now has a hit
song that's Friday. Oh like Cosmopolitan dot com, slash uk,
this school of rock child actress actually became a rock
star subhead. Jack Black totally called it. I hate subheads
so much, but you need to the people need to
click anyways. Sorry, let's carry on. Okay, we'll get back
(17:33):
to her. So this whole classroom full of students, he's like,
all right, you he signs roles. He's like, you're the
going to be the lead guitar, you're the bass player,
you're the keyboard and then there's other kids in the
class who I guess aren't important. So he's like, they're
not musically talented. So he's like, you can be a groupie.
You're going to design the costumes. Hey, you're the lighting guy,
(17:54):
which is all important important. They totally are they totally.
You're speaking to a music journalist. I know what I
want your word. What I meant to say, I will
write something means. Second, Jack Black totally called it sucks.
(18:15):
I told you, I'm wretched. I misspoke. What I meant
is I guess they're not cool enough to be in
the band or whatever. Anyway, because you're not in the
band doesn't mean you're not in the band. But he
does overlook them at first. At first he's like, you
can watch yeah, and then he has to like, I
gets too excited about the music, right, Dowey, I guess
(18:38):
Jack basically do we Dowey? And then they enter. He's like,
we're gonna enter the Battle of the Band's contest because
he is now without a band. So he's using these
children to have his own rock band. Again, that's what
this movie is about anyway, So he I don't understand
what the process. Meanwhile, he's like fooling principal Joan Cusack,
(19:02):
and she she's Shrewd number two. She's like rules, rules, rules,
You're not allowed to take a field trip, blah blah blah.
And then things culminate to a point where people figure
out that he's been lying this whole time, and they're like,
you're whole bust him. Shrewd number one. Yeah, have we
have we named Shrewd number three? We have not. She
(19:25):
is Summer of the band manager Miranda Cosgrow, a very young,
adorable doughe eyed Miranda Cosgrown idolize she cannot saying, and
she idolizes David Geffen. She rules, can I just really quick?
Rebecca Brown my Birthday Twin is now performing in spam
Alton in Chicago, which is a parody musical of Hamilton's
(19:49):
and it's also in Chicago. She's doing great. She has
an Instagram account. She has an Instagram. She's doing great.
She's I look forward to our shared birth day. Maybe
I'll go. I'll go to Chicago next week. Maybe I'll
go to Spammleton Chai please do anyways the end, She's
doing fine, Okay, cool, cool, cool cool. She has like
three lines in the movie, but she's fine. People find
(20:11):
out that he is not actually ned, and he gets
in trouble and he gets fired from his job. There
are police there, doesn't get arrested. Good for him. And
then the kids are like, but wait, we still want
to do Battle of the Band. So they go to
his house, get him out of bed. He's not wearing
a shirt. You do see his nipples and then they're like,
come on, they're hard. They're like, come on, we're going
(20:36):
to the Battle of the Band. So he drives him
in his van to a bout all of the bands.
They play a song. It's great, they don't win, but
everyone's like School of Rock, Encore, Please, it's in encore.
So they play another song and everything ends up fine.
The end, la la la. Well they starting school, which
is a real fact. Yeah, it's like a real after
(20:58):
school program, right was it a real thing? Before the
movie had there was like not controversy, but apparently they
started writing this script and then that was also happening,
but it wasn't meant as like a you know, true
story of the people who started that program, and the
title was going to be something different or they almost
had to change it to something else the School of
Rock title because of the program. Oh interesting. I mean
(21:21):
I'm sure that it's like yeah, And then they were like,
if anything, this is going to help boost It had
to because I'm sure people assumed it was like every city. No, yeah, yeah,
because I remember they every single They have one in Boston,
don't they. Yeah. Also, I think it's funny to mention
I have not seen this music. All the school Rock
(21:43):
has been adapted for the stage on Broadway, buying none
other than my boy and yours, Andrew lood whatever and
a guy from Downtown Abbey. I mean, if we're talking
about the man Andrew would Webber really does just fit
right in there, as does anyone associated with Downton Appy.
(22:07):
But anyway, it's a very successful Broadway musical now as well,
although I'm willing to meet its digs. Compared to they
debuted the one of the songs on the Today Show,
It's like I could watch it. Must have been in
college when it came out, and I was not impressed
because it deviates ever so slightly from the script which
I have memorized, and boy was my brain not into it.
(22:30):
But there's also the TV show on Nickelodeon I don't
know if it's so there was, Yeah, there wasn't. I
when was that on? I did not watch that. I
think it premiered in and let's see if it's still
on it is season so School of all that, to say,
(22:50):
the story ages very well. People love a timeless tale rock.
People are always going at school. People always want to
make school cool, and that's why School of Rock holds
up till this very day. And see no just okay.
I think that there's a there's a lot to talk
about in terms of how female characters are treated in
(23:14):
this movie. And also I think expanding that to Richard
linklater a little bit would be hopeful because I was
doing some background research and my research made me like
Richard Linkland or less because partially because his most recent film,
Everybody Wants Them is just a big I mean, have
you guys seen it? So it's about it's loosely based
(23:36):
on Richard Linkletter's freshman year of college in the nine eighties,
and it's about boy not boyfriends. It's about friends that
are boys, like boy tribes. It's a very animal house
kind of several different boyhoods are coming together into one movie.
But like what like barely thought out. It's it's a
it's a fucking drag. It's a real drag. There's a
(23:59):
lot of jokes at the pens of women, almost every
shot of a girl. And you know, Richard Richard linkletter
and interviews is like, well, but tell an eighteen year
old boy would see it. And it's like, but also
if you're a boy seeing it, then that's how you're
taught to you women. Anyways, what an idiot. But in
response to sorry, I'm like, hijack, you can cut this
(24:19):
out if you want, please, I cannot wait to ki,
I mean, please go on. Um So. Also he's directed
a movie called boy I mean, I I enjoyed Boyhood.
I thought, you know, it's it's a cool film. It
was fine. I liked it. What did you did you like?
I'm impressed that he got the same people to stay
(24:39):
on for a long time, like means he's agreeable. Also
like that the thing I remember most is like a
wordless probably like thirty second thing of when he's really
young and the boyfriend's like a dead bird and dead
something dead in the backyard, I think. And he doesn't say,
he just says, like death, what is I'm glad, thank you.
(25:00):
An they got me thinking, that's what I think of
when I think of that movie, and that is horrible
acting at the end. Yeah, I mean he really rolled
the dice on that. And sometimes you're gonna get a
Haley Joel Osmond. Most times you're not Haley Joel Osmond.
If you're listening, please come on the podcast. We're waiting
for you. We can do any movie you want. Six
(25:22):
for my tweets, don't you don't have to do six sends?
What was the movie you like? I just want to
more about I just wonder more about things that he likes.
Maybe he's into some weird shit. If you're into some
weird ship, for sure, hit me up. Anyways, everybody wants
some received generally positively. People are like, it's a you know,
(25:42):
an ode to boys? What movie fucking isn't Christopher Nolan
just released a movie I keep calling Boys City done
Kirk don Kirk, Yeah, there's anyways. Yeah, why isn't there
a girlhood? Hello? Because because everyone wants to jerk off
to themselves. And I get that. Richard Linklater is a
man and he's able to make movies because he's a man.
(26:03):
So he's going to drink off to himself, however, so
he retaliates, not retaliates, but make makes a strategic move,
as as some people do after people are like everybody
wants them is making fun of women a lot, and
the women who are in it are only objectified. And
then he says, well, I am executive producing a women's
(26:27):
film now. So he signs on to executive produce a
friend of his who's making a movie. Her name is
Katie Coconos, and the name of the movie is I
Dreamed Too Much. It was an indie movie, came out
a couple of months ago at this point, and he
doesn't interview a crummy interview with Vanity Fair in which
(26:47):
he sort of discusses why he feels that women aren't
being given opportunities and film I'd love to hear, and
he's got some really interesting thoughts. So question, why was
is the project that finally got you to step into
a producing role? His answer, well, I like that it's
one of the few young women's films that isn't really
(27:08):
centered around a guy or getting a guy or breaking
up with a guy. I like that Katie had a
real strong vision for a young woman her own dreams,
her own aspirations, and I thought, that's pretty damn unique.
You don't see that a lot. There needs to be
more voices like that out there. First of all, thank
you so fucking much, because I'm always around trying to
(27:29):
get the guy break up with the guy, and it
never occurred to me. You know, that's pretty damn unique.
He says, you do what you can. But I think
it's just an access question. I think a lot of
women in general want to talk about their experience of youth,
like boyhood, days of confused, everybody wants on, etcetera. I
think they're probably a little more hesitant in the film
world to say, oh, my own story, that's worthy of
(27:51):
semina cinema, Jesus Christ, Well, I have to go overds
in the bedroom to come to continue to quote. I
remember doing some interviews on Everybody Wants Some and people
were like, why aren't there any good female roles? Your
film is very male, there's no women in it. I'd
always say, well, if you feel there's a void, I
(28:12):
did executive produce this other movie, so when that film opens,
I hope you care or pay attention because it's out there.
So instead of uh, saying, Hey, maybe I should write
a female character that isn't horror virgin or shrew. Go
see what this other person made. I gave her ten
thousand dollars and I would like credit for that. So
(28:33):
he's basically saying he's he's a very hot on the back,
thank you for trying. That's like, I don't like it.
God his blind Oh, it's so unique to have a
woman tell her own story. You just don't see that
that much. But do you fucking have any idea? Why?
You stupid idiot? And also the implication is like women
(28:54):
are just this is just starting to occur to him.
Did they too grew up and they too have had
feelings that weren't just about how horny they are for
me or my fucking friends. And now that they're having
these feelings, I'm tossing them the fucking ball. And it's
just like, So that interview, really, and this is an
(29:14):
interview from this year, made me really want to like
look back at some of his because because from what
I can tell, and I haven't seen them all, it
seems like his treatment of women is kind of movie
to movie from what because I I felt, as I
remember I wasn't watching it for this podcast, but like Boyhood,
(29:35):
I didn't think was incredibly unfair to its It just
you know, I don't know, nothing really struck me with
the Before trilogy. It's really just two main characters, Ethan
Hawk's character and Julie Dupley's character. And Julie Dudley's character
is solid. It's a very character driven, mostly dialogue. Not
(29:55):
a ton happens in any of the movies except for
just developing their relations and ship. But her character is
very like, she's very outspoken, she has opinions, she voices
them right. But then I would argue in Days and Confused,
women are not treated very well. I don't remember it
that well, so I can't speak much to it in general.
I mean as a rule there you know, it is
(30:17):
a male focus film and the women are objectified. It's
like kind of in the same way as Everybody Wants
the which he himself connects the two movies as like, yeah,
that's like a spiritual sequel kind of thing, and that
it's about young boys who just wanted. So anyways, it
does seem like there's a lot of nuance here in
(30:37):
terms of like movie to movie, so let's bring it
back to school of freaking rock. Okay, So that's why
I think my criticism is over for the episode. I
did want to bring up because that I reading that
interview really piss me off. One quote. What you point
out to though, like this being unique and putting, it's
(30:58):
just putting. I like, I don't know, Like this happens
a lot in life, not even just in quote for
but where women having like original quote unquote ideas and
being like remotely creative or deviating from this setup of
like I don't even know. I feel like it's just
this big thing of putting someone in pedestal for having
an idea which is not of like a normal like
(31:19):
having ambitions. Well, he's completely failing to acknowledge the fact
that women don't get the same opportunities in Hollywood to
make movies, and the few times that a woman is
directing a movie, it's seen as this novel thing. Oh,
how original, how unique, And it's just because we've been
pushed down all throughout the history of filmmaking and also
(31:42):
life in general, society, history of the world. Right, it
isn't like the way that quote especially, Yeah, it's it's
sort of the same quote where it sounds like, and
maybe this was taken out of context, but I mean
it sounds like Richard link Lighter thinks that women are
just starting to direct movies because it just occurred to
them that they might have a story whereth telling where
(32:05):
it's actually been centuries of not inflament, but you know,
like it's been at least a century long struggle to
even get one percent representation, which I think is about
still where we're at in terms of directing anyways. So
that's dumb. Uh. But back to School of Rock and
it's female characters. Let's talk about Principal Mullins because I
(32:28):
think she she has I guess, the most story of
any female character, or I love her. I don't know
how well she's treated by the story, but as a character,
I love her. She's in charge, she's very good at
her job. She is respected by to some degree every
(32:51):
but like she is by pretty much everybody, I feel like,
I don't think anyone thinks she's doing a bad job, right,
But there's like liking someone and then not or like
respecting them are really different. Sure, yeah she's respected, but
I think she acknowledges And then there's also a scene
like in the teacher's lounge where she's like harping on
about something and Dewey's like she always like this and
(33:14):
they're like, oh yeah, like they don't really see her
as like someone, which makes sense because she's there's superior
boss like that. Yeah, We're like, yeah, he's so fu
up night. And then there's that scene where they go
out to coffee, which ends up being a giant mug
of beer instead of coffee. She's like she or you
(33:35):
don't have coffee and he's like, oh, I'm sure she's
so good. Afterwards she's like, no one thinks I'm cool.
I had to become this pitch and he's like, no, no, no,
you're cool. So I kind of like that scene where
she's like, this role made me have to be a
certain way, or at least she feels that way, and
(33:58):
she's acknowledging that because maybe a woman in power, I
had to assume this role to be respected, right. I
like that she acknowledges that, and that the movie addresses it.
Isn't the most poignant thing ever, No, but they do it. Yeah,
they do it. I remember when I was a kid too.
That really stuck out to me because it was like
(34:19):
the only felt like the only point in the movie
that was like legitimately serious, like I didn't fully understand
what it was there getting it. I also didn't even
know that she mouthed the word bitch. I was like,
what's what's she's saying. But because it does, like it
does get serious and he visibly seems a comfortable. I
think he feels bad for thinking she's uptight, but having
her talk about that, like she felt like she had
to become this ubtype version and couldn't really balance both
(34:41):
because most movies will have a role very similar to hers,
where it's like the Boss, she's a shrew, she's very uptight,
and we only see her in that role. We never
see her like that moment be like, yeah, I know
that I've become this I didn't ever want to be
this person, but this is who I had to become
to be respected in this role. Yeah, that's that's a
(35:01):
great point. First of all, junk fucking rules, every line
read she gives in this movie is the best line read.
I wonder how I feel like she never had to
do a second take. She she also has like really
good off I think lines that she came up with
her improv stuff that's seen in the teacher's lounge where
they're like after she stops giving her speech and Jack lexical.
(35:22):
She always like that they like pan to her with
their conversation. The main one has been in the background,
She's like, and then the turkey sand which just touched
the people. You know, this is a big deal, and
I'm like, Joan killing it. There's serious and the way
she's like always like a little bit hunched over. She's like,
I know she she does really good pers lips always,
(35:45):
especially when you drinking that beer or like sipping it.
She's really allowed to Joane out, which is like, so
it's so good. I also appreciate that the story does
not push her and Dewey together romantic maybe a little bit,
but for the most part, I think it's mostly a
friendship where even at one point she asks if he'll
(36:07):
go to parents knight with her, because she's like, it's
not a date or anything. I just like being around
you makes me feel more comfortable, which is friendship. And
I don't think she really necessarily has the vocabulary for
friendship unfortunately, but like it would have been another super
easy choice for this movie to be like and then
totally the uptight principle and cool think in like sort
(36:30):
of pervert institute teacher Meg Love and having it phrase
too and a wait where like that absolutely could have happened,
Especially then I feel like that steals whatever progress she's
made as being something that he showed her how to
do instead of her just like realizing she doesn't have
to be that way. She doesn't, right, and and yeah,
it's like she by the end, she's not doing I mean,
I guess she's maybe doing a little bit less of
(36:52):
a good job and that she's endorsing the school of Rock.
But also it's like she doesn't really have to sacrifice anything,
I feel the way a lot of female characters have
to where she does her job throughout, including the greatest
line read ever of I've just been informed that your
kids are missing shrug, so good. But she doesn't really
(37:17):
like nothing is taken from her, which was also refreshing.
Is she continues, you know, we assume she continues to
have her job. It's implied at the end that maybe
she's going to hook up with the new guitarist wearing
the half leather jack the most comfortable like every time.
Every time watches, I like have to look away. I
can't sit it's like too too much, uncomfortable because it's hot,
(37:39):
and she's like, there's more tattoo. It's awful every bit.
But again, it's like she is at first glance of
a shrewish character, but for me that is subverted enough
through the story and actually giving her character some attention
(38:00):
and an arc of I feel like her arc is
she realizes she doesn't need to be I mean, and
I guess this does speak to the truth, like you
don't have to be so fucking uptight. But I think
she like, in the context of this character, she realizes
she can be more herself and still be very good
at her job. And this is a sort of a
(38:22):
male impose, but like you can like Fleetwood Mac and
be a good private school principle, which is, you know,
it's not the perfect lesson, but I like it. It
worked for me. Yeah, I mean, she's sort of adhering
to this, like society's rules dictate that I have to
be this very uptight, especially because it's like the private
(38:43):
school sector. These kids parents are paying fifteen thousand dollars
a year for them to pretend which actually is not
that much. I was like staring considering college. Well that
and I've known of like private elementary or maybe it
was high schools. I don't know, but that ship costs
so much money. Three baby true, Lucy goofy. I almost
(39:05):
said pre nine eleven it wasn't it was, but it
was first well first, second bush Admin first half of
the sec different was weird. I did want to bring
up that this movie comes out just at at the
sort of as the man Child trope is really taken off,
(39:27):
and it's going to stick with us till this fucking
day seth Rogan is still around, He's still alive. Did
you know no one's harpooned him yet? That's always going
to go. This is he. I'm gonna harpoon him. I've
threatened to do it before. Uh. I hate the man
child trope, but in this again, this movie is a
(39:48):
big fat exception where it just works. I don't know
it why, I think that that's that's what it is.
It's the man child surrounded by literal children, and I
can't handle that many children in a movie, which is fair,
I did. I did want to bring that up because
that is a huge pet peeve of mine that again
in this movie just gets a full pass and I
(40:09):
openly love him. Let's talk about the female students. Can
we talk about Tamkas Like by far, I always think
she's the best character in this whole movie. I think
so too. So she's the student who he calls turkey suboriginally,
which I thought was because she was heavy, but it's
because he takes a turkey sub out of her desk
the first day steals and for so long I was like,
(40:31):
this is my biggest complaint with this movie. Why are
you fat shaming this wonderful girl. But also the movie
made the choice to have her be the only character
with food in her desk, so that or that was
like willing to share it true. Maybe she's just a
very generous person. She's great, Yeah, she's great. He does
take your turkey step. Yeah, So with her, the fact
(40:52):
that like she's very quiet gets a sign I think
security as a job. And then comes up to him
after and it's like, actually want to be a singer
and it is too afraid saying and stuff, and then
overcomes that sings has like an incredible voice, and it's
just like that scene before I think it's the auditions
for the Battle of the Bands where she gets too
nervous and pulls him aside. I go back to all
(41:13):
the time, and every time I watch it, I feel
like the older I've gotten, the more I appreciate the
language in that scene, because she says that she's too
nervous to sing, and he asked why, and she says,
I'm afraid they're gonna laugh at me, that they're gonna
call me fat, and he says, like to me, because
that's not a problem, and like he it's just the
wording is like he never actually says like you're not overweight,
or like you're not because she is a bit heavier.
(41:33):
And he also isn't like you can go on a
diet or like try to make her feel like there's
other options. He just says, like, what you want to
do is what you want to do, and being fat
isn't that's not equivalent to being ugly. And there's like
so much throughout all of that, and he goes and says, like,
you know, Aretha Franklin, she's a big lady, but she
doesn't safe she can sing. Everyone wants to party with
Aretha possible, And then he's like, and you know me,
(41:57):
like I have a way to shoe too. She asked
why he does go on a diet, and he just says,
because I like to eat. Is that a problem, and
then goes on to say like, but then people worship
me and like accept me when I'm up there, and
then just basically says like you can sing if you
want to, but it's up to you. And the fact
that he's not like, you're not I promise, let's just
do this, and that it's still up to her to
decide and they're choice, and that I just like, it's
(42:18):
always so like Rewatching, it warms warms my little heart.
It's a great I mean, like the fact that he
doesn't shame where that he's like, it's okay to eat
or be overweight as long as you're comfortable with yourself.
I'm just like, wow, especially, I feel like movies of
that time are so bad that when I go back
to Rewatch well and Richard Linkletter, movies are historically pretty bad.
With that, I mean, this is written by Mike White,
(42:40):
so good, good guy, the Blonde Eyelash to God we
know as Mike White, but you're totally right, like as
I've gotten older and watched that scene. It is kind
of remarkable how it holds up pretty much like the
way and Tamika is just cool, like she's fucking cool
(43:03):
and so talented, and she wearing her Avril Levina. Everyone
looks like blank money d two or all of those
hair pieces that are bright pink that I always wish
I had, but I was not cool enough, But then
I learned I was. I just had to believe you
were just like Lawrence Exac. Well, that's I wanted to
talk about the kid, because, um, the kid, the kid.
(43:26):
Um all all of the story treats. There's like two
male students that have arcs, and then two female students
that have arcs, and then the rest are kind of tertiary,
which is fine, they're not all going to have an ARC.
But I did like that sort of regardless of gender,
all the students were treated with either respect or not respect,
depending where we're at in the movie by Dewey, which
(43:50):
I think is a testament to even though he's a
you know, man child character, he is respectful of the
students and really does listen to them, and there's like
scenes where he's collaborating with them and treating them to
songs or when my favorite part where they're collaborating words
were in Zack and Zack song and Zacks sacrete song
(44:12):
where rock is the reason, rock is the rhyme and
he's like, no, no, no, rock, got no reason, rock,
got no rock. I'm like, you guys are just fucking pals.
I love it. But and then he says to right
after that, because he's like suggests that in Zach like okay,
because they all have been taught. I mean their parents
are all like super strict and terrifying, especially his. And
then he's like, well, no, no, no, like it's a suggestion,
(44:34):
this is your song. Like it's just like so I'm like, wow,
you respect children? Who does not enough people were changing
the lyrics. Sorry, Like but like seeing that when you're
probably again like seeing that when you're like eleven, You're
just like yeah. And when he does that whole song
of like teaching them to basically like flip off whatever
(44:56):
stress of yeah, and it's like what, here's you? And
then I for her name, the brace face girl says
homework and then the adorable like smallest child of the
bunch is just like bullies. You're like you're just like,
there's a whole other movie here. I think what bothered
(45:17):
me about the dynamic of the band at least is
that all the main parts of the band, which is
Zach gets lean guitar, Lawrence gets keyboard. Who's the drummer,
little little like burn stuff, the little road, what do
(45:38):
you like to do your time stuff? She's like, okay,
reasons forever, sorry, okay. And then there's the bass player
who Katie. So she a great day for everyone. She's
pretty much the only because you can the backup vocals,
(45:59):
they're kind of backups. So if we're just like isolating
the main members, the frontman of the band, we only
have one girl. She gets very little lines of dialogue
of screen time. Weirdly enough, her main moment is and
I know, you know, is the exchange she has with
(46:20):
Freddie A k Spazie McGhee white about Meg White. Yeah,
like two good female drummers, and then she, I mean
she names at least one good female. I'm not a
huge Meg White. That's also know, that's something that like
there's so many drummers like I credited who have simple beats,
(46:40):
who just like do what she is doing and she's
doing what they're doing who get credited as like being
like Ringo. Everyone always makes jokes about how he's not
a super intricate drummer or anything, but like she has
a simple part if you play drums every day and
going tour all the time, like she can play. She
can do stuff beyond that, but that's just her role.
And people always like, I don't know, there was a
really good, really really good piece on Meg White, and
(47:03):
like how she doesn't get the respect she's deserved and
has always been like the butt of the joke on
Hazel It maybe okay, I have to look it up,
but like so when she names those people and does
like she even white from the White stripes, and he's like,
she can't drum, she's better drummer than you. That that
I mean, that was a great yeah, especially because like
I feel, I feel like it's like trying to balance it.
But she I've always been under the impression that Katie
(47:26):
doesn't talk because she didn't want to. I think when
the they had rehearsals, which I also like to be
idealist and think like they didn't have a lot of
girls I like try out for the other parts. Maybe
they did. I don't know, they're still I'm sure sexism
that comes into play there in terms of who you choose,
But I think they chose her because she was really
good at base and she didn't want to talk, because
even when Jack Black is telling her how to do
(47:47):
those like big poofy lips and stuff, she doesn't I'm
pretty sure she doesn't talk at all during that. She's
not even like okay, like no like one syllable words
or anything. And at the end she's the only one
in the credit who doesn't solo, and you can tell
because of editing. I think either she did or she
didn't because she gets scared on camera. She's also clearly
(48:08):
still does music. But I think she was someone who
was like wanted to play and do this, and they
wanted to have her, and I think we're almost or
I don't know, but it seems like they were like,
we care enough about having you that it's okay if
you don't have a lot of lines, because she has
a lot of the iconic stuff with like the cello,
that she could have been more involved in, but she
just like always looks terrified. Yeah, then make the keyboard
(48:31):
player a girl, or like I don't know, They're just
there were more opportunities to have more of like the
main band be one of those characters, were more than
one be a girl and with lines and an arc
and stuff like that. I mean that said three, if
you're not including Jack Black, three of the four main
people are white. Lawrence is the only one who's a
(48:51):
person of color. Like that's something else too that I rewatching.
Feel like their class is more diverse than like I
feel like for a private school, way more diverse than
what imagined it would be. Right, Yeah, in terms of casting, right,
I agree in terms of the band, but in terms
of the class as a whole, we do get two
male student arcs, two female student arcs, with the female
(49:12):
student arts are Tamika and Summer. The male student arcs
are Zack and Lawrence. So in that way it kind
of I agree in terms of like musical representation, but
in terms of the story I felt pretty good watching
at this time of Like, Summer does get her arc
of She's the Little Shrew basically, and is originally presented
(49:35):
as an annoyance and a foil to Jack Black trying
to teachers. Yeah, but by the end he's like she's
going to be the first female president, which still could
be true. Yeah, go for it, Miranda, we loved you,
and Drake and Josh we loved you, and I Carle
time to become the president, and I feel like they
(49:56):
try given time limit too, because they probably could have
gone longer. A lot of the montages try to show
I mean, as any film does, growth between people. But
I really like that they show Gordon Gordon, Lizzie McGuire,
the Gordo, the little boy, the light handles, the lights
and like technology stuff because they during their like the
final Battle of the Band scene too, they show him
(50:18):
and like his work often and from his perspective. Also,
the person watching him is a female light technician and
not or like stage hand person and not a boy,
which like if you think of like on stage representation
offstage is like way less music industry. So I was like, wow,
that's nice and like not what I thought it would
be when I noticed that later in life. So I
(50:39):
like that they show his stuff and like actually give
it credit. They just like credit kids is being smart
and capable of learning a lot, which is a it's
a pretty true yeah, and the good kids can't learn.
It was a waste of time and like, one of
the best and most exciting things I've seen this movie
when You're a kid is being like I'm a kid
and I can do stuff. That's my representation is so important.
(51:04):
That's why we's gonna say, and also a better representation
of women. Um does this movie pass the Backtel tests? Yes,
Yes it does. What where although do we know that
(51:24):
teacher's name? Where? Um, the principal is talking to a
lady teacher and she's like, don't have the peanut butter
sandwich the other sandwiches. That scene does not pass. At
least there are two women interacting. Yes, it does. It
does have it doesn't happen as much as it should.
There's no scene Sarah Silverman is in that I saw
(51:44):
that passes the Bactel test. Unfortunate, but there are So
there's a scene between John Cusack and a child where
she's yelling at the child but also like do you
want to hug and she's like no, and then she's like, Okay,
have a good day, Emily. That passes the test. Uh.
And then there's a scene right after that. I think
(52:04):
that it does pass because I think she's talking to
one of the teachers, who we learned has a name
in a previous scene even though I don't remember it.
After that leaves the school, yeah, where she's like, she's like, yeah,
the teachers slipped, but we've got a substitute, and so
she's technically talking about it, just like talking about her
tub because it's about him filling in and explaining what
he does. Either way, it already passes. But there are
(52:30):
so many opportunities for like the three backup singers who
were all girls, to be like, hey, I like to
sing me too, Like they could have talked. There could
have been there's there are more opportunities that were missed,
especially imagine just like natural conversation that would have occurred
that would have been relevant between everyone summer as the
band manager was controlled, like you know, had jurisdiction over everybody,
(52:53):
she could have talked to the backup singers, she could
have talked to the bass player, all kinds of people.
But we don't see any of those scenes. So let's
all give School of Rock a nipple rating on our
famous nipple rating scale. And this is not how much
you liked the movie, but how well you think it
treats women on a scale of one to five and
(53:13):
then we're going to need some description to those nips.
I'm going to give this movie a three and a
half nipples because Richard Lingler in a hole. I give
him a punch in the mouth. As of right now,
that interview really bothered me. But this movie, uh, the
shrew problem is almost entirely responsible for why I'm gonna
(53:35):
knock off points, and I think of us really being honest.
It's more of a three three and a half though.
The shrewd the shrewdestness, especially of the Sarah Silverman character,
which is like a double punch in the gut because
it's like, don't do that to Sarah fucking Silverman, are
you kidding? Every scene she's in she's like right, So
that's not fair. Um. But we do see growth in
our main female character, principal Rosalie Mullins played by Joan
(53:59):
Joan Out. I appreciate that they sort of take a
stereotype and, whether intentionally or not, at least subvert it
to Mika Amazing summer has. You know, she has an arc.
She goes on to become my Carly. It's all good.
I'm giving the nipples too. I'm giving two of them
(54:19):
to Adam Pascal because he's gonna need them. He's going
to film rent for two thousand and five. He's busy.
He's gonna need those nipples. I'm not gonna take them
away from him. I'm assuming that whoever we don't give
nipples two ceases to have them. I'm giving one blonde
nipple to Mike White, very pale, and then I'm giving
(54:40):
the last half a nipple just busy McGhee. Okay, yeah,
I'm gonna go with four. I went in originally thinking more,
but then hearing a lot of your thoughts about it
made me change my mind, which makes sense because Sarah
Silverman really doesn't at all, which is the one that
I knew ahead. But then Joe and I feel like
I always thought of her more as changing, but there
often isn't because the blind she had there in the background.
(55:01):
But is it? I like, want to give it to
kids as an award, but then I'm also like, no,
that's wrong. This is the same space. Give the children nipples,
they need them, humanity will cease to be Oh we milk.
It feels too weird, So I'm not going to I'm
gonna give it to one to Jack Black's ex bandmate
(55:22):
who was in Once because my mom loves that musical.
Shout out to that guy. I'm gonna give one to Know.
I'm gonna give two to that woman who works behind
the board, the sound board about all of the band's
respect her. And then I'll give one to Joan. She
deserves it, she deserves it, She's worked hard. I'm gonna
give it two and a half nipples. I'm sorry, but
(55:46):
it's still largely fine a man's movie. Jack Black steals
the show, and by that and he's given the show,
he steals. Its written for him. It's a show and
a lot of a lot of his interactions are with
other boys in the band, so it's still a very
(56:07):
male heavy movie. The female characters that there are, as
we pointed out, are often very like uptight, high strung
so and then of the ones who are turtle like vibe.
Of the ones who aren't barely get any screen time
to make a great character. I love her. She doesn't
get a ton of screen time or lines, doesn't play
(56:29):
a huge role in the story as tender and wonderful
as her scene is where she's like, I'm afraid people
are gonna laugh at me because I'm fat, Sarah Soloman,
Summer Principal, John Cusack. They're all like um, which is fine.
There are people like that. That's totally cool. But let's
see a broader representation of women. There are other types
of women like me, wretched but also cool anyway, So
(56:54):
I give it two and a half nipples. They belong
to Jack Black, the nipples that we see that the
children also see. And then a half nupple goes to
I'm gonna say, Julie Depley from Before Sunrise cool because
we see her nipples in Before Midnight. Actually, so that's
the half nipple. Do you everything? Jack Black and Jack
(57:15):
White hang out anyways every day. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Where can people find you online? I'm on
the Internet on the Twitter. My name is Nina Corkor
and then that's my handle with an underscore. You can
find me in print and dig Boston if you live
in the city, and otherwise my name is very google ble.
There's not a lot of us. Nina Corkoran's out there.
(57:35):
We eat player and a cool girl who lives in Canada.
Hell yeah, we'll tag this ship out of you. There's
a lot of Jamie Lattis is out there and I
almost hooked up with one one time for another day.
All right, thanks for listening to the battel Cast. You
can find us on Twitter at bactel Cast. You can
find us on Instagram at backtel Cast. We just got
(57:56):
a website. It's becktel Cast Dot freaking calm. Give us money.
We need money really bad. There's a place to click
for money for us. Uh. Money for us is good always.
We're coming to New York in September. Come to that.
I keep wanting to say September eleven. It's not that
it's September. It's September nine. We're all fine. We're gonna
(58:18):
have a great time at the cinder Block Comedy Festival.
It's it's gonna be. It's gonna be a hip and
a hop in a fun time. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for looking.
Just punched the water wattle. Okay, gotta go.
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Welcome to the
Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin,
and this is our podcast where we talk about the
(00:20):
role of women and boy is it? I mean, girl
is it? How was it planned? Was it planned? I
don't know. I'm nervous about this episode because I've only
rewatched the movie once. I've had yourself of an I
p A. Do you remember the time where I didn't
(00:41):
watch the movie at all? On admitte it weeks later
the Matrix The Matrix episode, go back and listen if
you want to hear some high level bullshit. I still
haven't seen The Matrix to this day. Oh man, it's
pretty good. You wouldn't like it. I pretended to not
like it, and I felt like that was maybe at
the right I felt like I wasn't gonna like it.
(01:02):
My arm is covered. There's some sort of there's some
creepy crawleys in my house and they're eating me up,
and so every time I leave my house, I've been
spraying like my entire floor in like bug poison, but
they've evolved and they're I My whole forearm is covered
in Okay, life finds a way. Don't eat this is
(01:23):
our episode. Oh no, I'm going to keep bringing it
back to Jurassic Park. I. Well, we were saying that
today's movie is what you are to Jurassic Park, as
today's movie is to me, and then I like it
and you're like, that's fine. I'm ambivalent, will say right,
I know, and our guests could not be more excited. Well,
it's three against one because Aristotle also loves this movie.
(01:46):
Aristotle was reciting lines with me. It was exciting. People
love this movie and okay, so let's just get into it.
The movie Today as a School of Rock, directed by
Richard link Later two thousand and three, and our guest,
I'm so excited. She's one of my best friends in
the whole world. She is the music editor for a
(02:06):
Dig Boston. She's written for pitch Fork asquoiir NPR. It's
Nina Congrass. I just knocked over your ice cream, which
is also on talking about school from I feel like
we've probably eaten ice cream with disposable knives and talked
(02:28):
to most School of Rock more than one time. I
have like a very vivid memory of us being maybe
a little bit intoxicated once or maybe sober. It could
have gone either way, but we went to it two desk.
He's because you wanted to. You wanted to check in
on four square before you bought a pint of ven
and Jerry's so that the time of Vena Jerry's would
(02:50):
be free. I used to do that all worked. Where
is this thing where you would get a discount code?
For sure doesn't do it anymore. But we're right you
checked in the most. You're the man and through the merits.
So a lot of history on the cast today we're
talking about School of Okay, well, let's first discuss our
(03:11):
history of this movie. K When did you see this
movie for the first time. I believe I saw it
either right when it first came out in oh three
or sometimes shortly after that. I don't know if I
saw in theaters or not, but I only saw it
that once until I then rewatched it the other day
to prepare for this episode. You said you can only
watch it in five minute chunks. Personally, I was triggered.
(03:33):
I look mad, Max fury Ron, I think the better
comperson say that movie. Do you just not like Jack Black?
That only I found? Don't like it? Don't? Well? I mean, yeah,
it's impossible. I certainly no, I really don't. I'm a
wretched person with no heart. I thought I liked him, okay,
(03:54):
up until rewatching this movie, and then I was like,
I find him. Well, here's the thing. I like my
comedy to be a little more subtle than he delivers.
It's a Jack Black vehicle, and he's so subtle in
his defense, it's a very nuanced performance. Okay, I can't
argue with that. However, he's just never not mugging the
(04:17):
fuck out of whatever scene he's in, and he's just
like the shot of the eyebrow truly says it all,
Like could you be leaning into this anymore? I still
love it? But yeah, I saw it when it came
out and then again and now I'm just like, yeah,
I don't. I don't think I like this movie so
a more accurate thing than Jurassic Park, which again I'm
(04:40):
going to keep bringing up today is I don't care
for this movie. You didn't care for Mad Max. You
said you like Jurassic Park. Okay, I feel like that's
a more appropriate comparison. I hated Bad Max and I
hate Steampunks, and I was like, I was at Comic
Con this weekend, and I was it was a real
best of the spirit. A few casualties, but not as
(05:03):
many as one would think. I first saw this movie
in theaters memorably. I think I've told I've actually talked
about this with you before. Because I grew up in Brockton, Massachusetts.
My cousin and I went to see this movie with
our aunt or her mom my aunt, and someone in
the movie theater got stabbed in the foot. Sometime during
the second act of School of Rocket. We all had
(05:25):
to leave. I'd come back another day to see the
end of School. We saw it from the beginning, but
we didn't know how it ended for days, and we
were and at the time like there was Google, but
we were ten, we didn't really use it, so we
were just like, I wonder if they win. I wonder
if they can even go to the Battle of the
Bit Because someone got stabbed in the foot and the
(05:45):
movie Gunner was closed shortly after then, we had the VHS.
I've seen this movie easily twenty times. It's like one
of my favorites of all time. It's so good. That
was your experience of the movie. I feel like I
shouldn't list how many times I've seen it. Please, it's
definitely over fifty. It's way maybe not incredible, probably, i'd
(06:08):
hope so I can't stop. But my earliest memory is
on a road trip and watched that movie, just only
that movie, the whole trip, over and over. I watched
it once and then I watched it with subtitles, and
then I watched the director's cut, and then I watched
the one with all the commentary of them talking and
then which is really good. It is it's so because
(06:30):
they're like all young talking about it and getting excited
seeing themselves on the screen. Yeah, this movie it rules.
It's so. It's so good. I mean that, right. There
is four times in one car a lot of people.
And I think that we were talking about before Nina
got here, that I think that the age you were
when this movie came out is critical to how you
(06:51):
feel about the movie, because we were the exact right
Aristotle was too. We were all ten or eleven when
this movie came out and the movies about ten or
eleven year olds starting a band with Jack Black, and
that still sounds like and now it's like, maybe that's
a little perverted, but at the time, it was like, yeah,
I want him to be my teacher. He's so cool. Yeah,
(07:13):
I was like a sixteen probably and I was too
cool for school. But it probably really good. I don't.
I think it has its merits, but merits School Rock,
(07:34):
it's merits well. One of the reasons I am a
it's uh, well, look sorry. One of the reasons that
I'm a wretched person is that I do not like children.
I don't like movies that start children and child actors.
You hate a child actors, get them out of here.
(07:54):
I hate most child actors, but all the child actors
in this movie I have a crush on. So so
it's different. I mean, and they're ten or eleven. That's
better than when you have like a six year old
in a movie. No thank you. But even so, the
cast is largely children, and I cannot get behind it.
Do not endorse most only a children who never work again.
(08:17):
But with the exception of one Miranda Cosgrove, who one
might argue it was a star making role for her.
If by star making you mean I carly eventually, wait,
which character is that summer Um band manager they sleep
with the band? Sloot shaming this movie, okay, but but
(08:41):
I think that's on Jack back because he made the
children groupies, well and groupies, but he could have induced historically.
But he also the cheerleaders for it, and I feel
like they're because that's the thing that seems weird. But
then they're the ones charged with like designing the clothing,
coming up with the name, and they're really excited about it.
And then obviously when Summer isn't, he's like gives her
(09:04):
the biggest job possible, but mainly band manager. He never
actually tells her how to do it or what to do.
He lets her decide the figuring out how to be
a leader. She reads that whole book and then later
they're like, she's Upsas with David Gavin, just some quick
stats on this movie before we get into the recap.
This movie was the most successful musical comedy ever until
(09:29):
pitch Perfect Too like to which I refused to see
because of that. I am like, pitch Perfect franchise needs
to grow up and let School of Rock habits place
in history. So this is a Richard Linklner movie. Let's
name some big ones. Because I have seen a handful
of his movies. I have not like a super fan, sure,
(09:49):
but so my favorite of his is Before Sunrise, Before Sunset,
I can take earl before Midnight. Maybe I need to
revisit it. But those first two, especially of the Floor trilogy,
I haven't seen. They are so fucking good. I love
them so much. I hate romance movies. I hate romance
in general. I hate children. I hate everything that's good
about the world. Can I say it? Yeah? So Caleen
(10:12):
loves Before Sunrise so much that she has a sketch
on the World Wide Web that is a Before Sunrise
Twilight crossover and it's really good. Thanks checking on her
work out before Twilight on the Internet. Once you know
what it is, I just didn't know what it was
at first, but then once I saw I understood. It's
(10:34):
a low budget production written and edited by a wow
budget Caitlin torante Um, It's it's it's the Nindie Faith,
but Nindy Darlin. Linklater is also famous. Link Later is
also famous for Days Used Boyhood and then Last year
(10:55):
he did Everybody Wants Some, which I did see, which
can suck my ass. Did not like it, Richard. Okay,
we'll get into let's let's go through a School of Rock,
which I think we can all agree as his best movie.
I I mean I legitimately, of what I've seen of
his I like School Rock better than Days to Confuse.
I like it better than Boyhood. I like it better
(11:16):
than Everybody Wants Them. I'm pretty sure that's all I've seen.
Hearing of you, and I can say it's still great. However,
many years later than when I first saw, even the
joke about fucking kids is still funny. How many movies,
and I think they touched me too, It's so funny. Okay,
let's do the recap. All right, this is going to
(11:37):
be a fun one. It's gonna be so Nina, so
you know, interjections allowed, but Kaitlin is also allowed to
yell back. I oh god, Okay. School of Rock is
the story of Dewey Finn Fin. He's so cool man.
He's in a rock band with Adam Pesk out of
(12:00):
Rent and Aita And that person was in the Once musical?
Is that the one with the longer Hair's like, Dooey,
we're friends. Man, No, wait, was that a little any
one who's in his band? Yeah, he's I want to
see with my mom. And I was like, oh my god,
I'm star Schuck the man from School up Rock. I
was obsessed with Adam Pesco. He's great in this movie.
(12:22):
He's like because he's like, I'm sure loss and you
don't fit in. You're not enough for the band. But
so Dewey Finn. He's in a rock band. He loves
rock music. He does too many guitar solos at their
shows and the band's like, well, we're gonna take you out.
He's like no. Meanwhile, his roommate ned Mike White, who
(12:43):
also wrote the movie. He has a girlfriend played by
Sarah Silverman. Shrew number one, call her Shrew number one.
She's one of three shrews that to Peven throughout the film, right,
Shrew number one is like, you need to start paying rent, Dowey,
you're freeloading too much. Tara Selverman a job. Yeah, she's
wearing a turtle like. I think she's treated Of all
(13:07):
the female characters, I think she's she's treated the worst.
Agree and her talents are so wasted in this movie.
She's so, I hope she paid her rent for three
years off of having to wear all those turtle likes. Yeah,
so she's like, you gotta start paying rent. And Dewey
he's down on his luck. He's all out of sorts.
(13:28):
And then he gets a phone call intended for his
roommate Ned, but it's from this prestigious private school and
that and I do love that. The first act is
really like the inciting incident is a good old fashioned
landline mix up. Couldn't happen today, the little hello. This
isn't like great part anyways. So they give him a
(13:52):
call and Dewey answers, and they're looking for a substitute teacher,
which he's also. Mind you, he's in the middle of
getting calls trying to sell his gear, plawning it off
as like ridiculous things, which it is not, but making
an effort to make rent selling things he doesn't want
to sell them mean a lot to write, which he
makes clear is for his Mike White is the first
(14:13):
person I remember in my entire life realizing that you
could have blonde eyelashes. Didn't know so he so he
says specifically and this is another reason where it's like
no one is nice to Sarah Silverman in this movie.
Everyone's afraid of her. Or he's like, I'll do it
for you, but not for that turtleneck, bitch. You know.
(14:35):
He doesn't say it, but I think he almost says
worse anyways, but yes, it's implied either way. So he
gets this call and he pretends to be ned, and
so he goes to this school pretending to be a
substitute teacher. And it's a classroom full of all these
young youths of America and they're accustomed to a very
(14:57):
strict academic regiment and they're like, are you going to
teach us or what? And he's just like, oh, I'm
hung over. And he's very not into it. He's really
just there to try to make some another exchange. I
didn't know what hungover meant when I saw this movie.
Literally teaches you that mean you're drunk, just drunk yesterday.
I means you're an alcoholic. No, it doesn't, which isn't
(15:19):
always true. That's a more square rectangle thing. Uh. So
he's having a hard time connecting with these kids at first,
and then he's like, wait a minute, what if I
start teaching the music, So forget about the eye out part. Yeah,
because he hears because he hears him playing music and
goes and it's like, dang right. He says that without words. Yeah,
(15:43):
he just the eyebrows say it all and then some
the whole script, he as each wave. Some people are
not going to like the eyebrow wave. But I think
that he saved about three pages of dialogue with the
eyebrow right, Because so Principal Joan Cuza comes in, She's like,
it's time for their music lessons. So he hears them
(16:04):
playing music. He's like, wait a minute, there are musicians.
This kid plays the acoustic guitar. I can teach him
how to play electric guitar. This other girl plays the cello.
She's now the base. So he like, which, by the way,
in saying that in this world, Jack Black has never
heard of a cello, He's like, what was that cello
you've got? That's also she says like two or three
(16:26):
lines in the whole movie, and that's one of them.
But also I'm pretty sure that's because of a choice
thing really ill, because I looked at she's like one
of were also talked because First of all, she was
hashtag arizontal's crush of the movie. Second of all, she
and I were born on the exact same date. So
you played bass so cello it's a base um. But
(16:48):
also she was also never in anything ever. Again, she
did do her own you know, way too much. She
did her own YouTube series of her playing music really
under her real name. I think she changed the name
of it. I wish I remembered it right now, But
she did a really long time because all those people
who had a crush on her found like, oh my god,
she did become the music girl of my dream, Rebecca Brown.
(17:10):
It's actually became Rebecca Black and now has a hit
song that's Friday. Oh like Cosmopolitan dot com, slash uk,
this school of rock child actress actually became a rock
star subhead. Jack Black totally called it. I hate subheads
so much, but you need to the people need to
click anyways. Sorry, let's carry on. Okay, we'll get back
(17:33):
to her. So this whole classroom full of students, he's like,
all right, you he signs roles. He's like, you're the
going to be the lead guitar, you're the bass player,
you're the keyboard and then there's other kids in the
class who I guess aren't important. So he's like, they're
not musically talented. So he's like, you can be a groupie.
You're going to design the costumes. Hey, you're the lighting guy,
(17:54):
which is all important important. They totally are they totally.
You're speaking to a music journalist. I know what I
want your word. What I meant to say, I will
write something means. Second, Jack Black totally called it sucks.
(18:15):
I told you, I'm wretched. I misspoke. What I meant
is I guess they're not cool enough to be in
the band or whatever. Anyway, because you're not in the
band doesn't mean you're not in the band. But he
does overlook them at first. At first he's like, you
can watch yeah, and then he has to like, I
gets too excited about the music, right, Dowey, I guess
(18:38):
Jack basically do we Dowey? And then they enter. He's like,
we're gonna enter the Battle of the Band's contest because
he is now without a band. So he's using these
children to have his own rock band. Again, that's what
this movie is about anyway, So he I don't understand
what the process. Meanwhile, he's like fooling principal Joan Cusack,
(19:02):
and she she's Shrewd number two. She's like rules, rules, rules,
You're not allowed to take a field trip, blah blah blah.
And then things culminate to a point where people figure
out that he's been lying this whole time, and they're like,
you're whole bust him. Shrewd number one. Yeah, have we
have we named Shrewd number three? We have not. She
(19:25):
is Summer of the band manager Miranda Cosgrow, a very young,
adorable doughe eyed Miranda Cosgrown idolize she cannot saying, and
she idolizes David Geffen. She rules, can I just really quick?
Rebecca Brown my Birthday Twin is now performing in spam
Alton in Chicago, which is a parody musical of Hamilton's
(19:49):
and it's also in Chicago. She's doing great. She has
an Instagram account. She has an Instagram. She's doing great.
She's I look forward to our shared birth day. Maybe
I'll go. I'll go to Chicago next week. Maybe I'll
go to Spammleton Chai please do anyways the end, She's
doing fine, Okay, cool, cool, cool cool. She has like
three lines in the movie, but she's fine. People find
(20:11):
out that he is not actually ned, and he gets
in trouble and he gets fired from his job. There
are police there, doesn't get arrested. Good for him. And
then the kids are like, but wait, we still want
to do Battle of the Band. So they go to
his house, get him out of bed. He's not wearing
a shirt. You do see his nipples and then they're like,
come on, they're hard. They're like, come on, we're going
(20:36):
to the Battle of the Band. So he drives him
in his van to a bout all of the bands.
They play a song. It's great, they don't win, but
everyone's like School of Rock, Encore, Please, it's in encore.
So they play another song and everything ends up fine.
The end, la la la. Well they starting school, which
is a real fact. Yeah, it's like a real after
(20:58):
school program, right was it a real thing? Before the
movie had there was like not controversy, but apparently they
started writing this script and then that was also happening,
but it wasn't meant as like a you know, true
story of the people who started that program, and the
title was going to be something different or they almost
had to change it to something else the School of
Rock title because of the program. Oh interesting. I mean
(21:21):
I'm sure that it's like yeah, And then they were like,
if anything, this is going to help boost It had
to because I'm sure people assumed it was like every city. No, yeah, yeah,
because I remember they every single They have one in Boston,
don't they. Yeah. Also, I think it's funny to mention
I have not seen this music. All the school Rock
(21:43):
has been adapted for the stage on Broadway, buying none
other than my boy and yours, Andrew lood whatever and
a guy from Downtown Abbey. I mean, if we're talking
about the man Andrew would Webber really does just fit
right in there, as does anyone associated with Downton Appy.
(22:07):
But anyway, it's a very successful Broadway musical now as well,
although I'm willing to meet its digs. Compared to they
debuted the one of the songs on the Today Show,
It's like I could watch it. Must have been in
college when it came out, and I was not impressed
because it deviates ever so slightly from the script which
I have memorized, and boy was my brain not into it.
(22:30):
But there's also the TV show on Nickelodeon I don't
know if it's so there was, Yeah, there wasn't. I
when was that on? I did not watch that. I
think it premiered in and let's see if it's still
on it is season so School of all that, to say,
(22:50):
the story ages very well. People love a timeless tale rock.
People are always going at school. People always want to
make school cool, and that's why School of Rock holds
up till this very day. And see no just okay.
I think that there's a there's a lot to talk
about in terms of how female characters are treated in
(23:14):
this movie. And also I think expanding that to Richard
linklater a little bit would be hopeful because I was
doing some background research and my research made me like
Richard Linkland or less because partially because his most recent film,
Everybody Wants Them is just a big I mean, have
you guys seen it? So it's about it's loosely based
(23:36):
on Richard Linkletter's freshman year of college in the nine eighties,
and it's about boy not boyfriends. It's about friends that
are boys, like boy tribes. It's a very animal house
kind of several different boyhoods are coming together into one movie.
But like what like barely thought out. It's it's a
it's a fucking drag. It's a real drag. There's a
(23:59):
lot of jokes at the pens of women, almost every
shot of a girl. And you know, Richard Richard linkletter
and interviews is like, well, but tell an eighteen year
old boy would see it. And it's like, but also
if you're a boy seeing it, then that's how you're
taught to you women. Anyways, what an idiot. But in
response to sorry, I'm like, hijack, you can cut this
(24:19):
out if you want, please, I cannot wait to ki,
I mean, please go on. Um So. Also he's directed
a movie called boy I mean, I I enjoyed Boyhood.
I thought, you know, it's it's a cool film. It
was fine. I liked it. What did you did you like?
I'm impressed that he got the same people to stay
(24:39):
on for a long time, like means he's agreeable. Also
like that the thing I remember most is like a
wordless probably like thirty second thing of when he's really
young and the boyfriend's like a dead bird and dead
something dead in the backyard, I think. And he doesn't say,
he just says, like death, what is I'm glad, thank you.
(25:00):
An they got me thinking, that's what I think of
when I think of that movie, and that is horrible
acting at the end. Yeah, I mean he really rolled
the dice on that. And sometimes you're gonna get a
Haley Joel Osmond. Most times you're not Haley Joel Osmond.
If you're listening, please come on the podcast. We're waiting
for you. We can do any movie you want. Six
(25:22):
for my tweets, don't you don't have to do six sends?
What was the movie you like? I just want to
more about I just wonder more about things that he likes.
Maybe he's into some weird shit. If you're into some
weird ship, for sure, hit me up. Anyways, everybody wants
some received generally positively. People are like, it's a you know,
(25:42):
an ode to boys? What movie fucking isn't Christopher Nolan
just released a movie I keep calling Boys City done
Kirk don Kirk, Yeah, there's anyways. Yeah, why isn't there
a girlhood? Hello? Because because everyone wants to jerk off
to themselves. And I get that. Richard Linklater is a
man and he's able to make movies because he's a man.
(26:03):
So he's going to drink off to himself, however, so
he retaliates, not retaliates, but make makes a strategic move,
as as some people do after people are like everybody
wants them is making fun of women a lot, and
the women who are in it are only objectified. And
then he says, well, I am executive producing a women's
(26:27):
film now. So he signs on to executive produce a
friend of his who's making a movie. Her name is
Katie Coconos, and the name of the movie is I
Dreamed Too Much. It was an indie movie, came out
a couple of months ago at this point, and he
doesn't interview a crummy interview with Vanity Fair in which
(26:47):
he sort of discusses why he feels that women aren't
being given opportunities and film I'd love to hear, and
he's got some really interesting thoughts. So question, why was
is the project that finally got you to step into
a producing role? His answer, well, I like that it's
one of the few young women's films that isn't really
(27:08):
centered around a guy or getting a guy or breaking
up with a guy. I like that Katie had a
real strong vision for a young woman her own dreams,
her own aspirations, and I thought, that's pretty damn unique.
You don't see that a lot. There needs to be
more voices like that out there. First of all, thank
you so fucking much, because I'm always around trying to
(27:29):
get the guy break up with the guy, and it
never occurred to me. You know, that's pretty damn unique.
He says, you do what you can. But I think
it's just an access question. I think a lot of
women in general want to talk about their experience of youth,
like boyhood, days of confused, everybody wants on, etcetera. I
think they're probably a little more hesitant in the film
world to say, oh, my own story, that's worthy of
(27:51):
semina cinema, Jesus Christ, Well, I have to go overds
in the bedroom to come to continue to quote. I
remember doing some interviews on Everybody Wants Some and people
were like, why aren't there any good female roles? Your
film is very male, there's no women in it. I'd
always say, well, if you feel there's a void, I
(28:12):
did executive produce this other movie, so when that film opens,
I hope you care or pay attention because it's out there.
So instead of uh, saying, Hey, maybe I should write
a female character that isn't horror virgin or shrew. Go
see what this other person made. I gave her ten
thousand dollars and I would like credit for that. So
(28:33):
he's basically saying he's he's a very hot on the back,
thank you for trying. That's like, I don't like it.
God his blind Oh, it's so unique to have a
woman tell her own story. You just don't see that
that much. But do you fucking have any idea? Why?
You stupid idiot? And also the implication is like women
(28:54):
are just this is just starting to occur to him.
Did they too grew up and they too have had
feelings that weren't just about how horny they are for
me or my fucking friends. And now that they're having
these feelings, I'm tossing them the fucking ball. And it's
just like, So that interview, really, and this is an
(29:14):
interview from this year, made me really want to like
look back at some of his because because from what
I can tell, and I haven't seen them all, it
seems like his treatment of women is kind of movie
to movie from what because I I felt, as I
remember I wasn't watching it for this podcast, but like Boyhood,
(29:35):
I didn't think was incredibly unfair to its It just
you know, I don't know, nothing really struck me with
the Before trilogy. It's really just two main characters, Ethan
Hawk's character and Julie Dupley's character. And Julie Dudley's character
is solid. It's a very character driven, mostly dialogue. Not
(29:55):
a ton happens in any of the movies except for
just developing their relations and ship. But her character is
very like, she's very outspoken, she has opinions, she voices
them right. But then I would argue in Days and Confused,
women are not treated very well. I don't remember it
that well, so I can't speak much to it in general.
I mean as a rule there you know, it is
(30:17):
a male focus film and the women are objectified. It's
like kind of in the same way as Everybody Wants
the which he himself connects the two movies as like, yeah,
that's like a spiritual sequel kind of thing, and that
it's about young boys who just wanted. So anyways, it
does seem like there's a lot of nuance here in
(30:37):
terms of like movie to movie, so let's bring it
back to school of freaking rock. Okay, So that's why
I think my criticism is over for the episode. I
did want to bring up because that I reading that
interview really piss me off. One quote. What you point
out to though, like this being unique and putting, it's
(30:58):
just putting. I like, I don't know, Like this happens
a lot in life, not even just in quote for
but where women having like original quote unquote ideas and
being like remotely creative or deviating from this setup of
like I don't even know. I feel like it's just
this big thing of putting someone in pedestal for having
an idea which is not of like a normal like
(31:19):
having ambitions. Well, he's completely failing to acknowledge the fact
that women don't get the same opportunities in Hollywood to
make movies, and the few times that a woman is
directing a movie, it's seen as this novel thing. Oh,
how original, how unique, And it's just because we've been
pushed down all throughout the history of filmmaking and also
(31:42):
life in general, society, history of the world. Right, it
isn't like the way that quote especially, Yeah, it's it's
sort of the same quote where it sounds like, and
maybe this was taken out of context, but I mean
it sounds like Richard link Lighter thinks that women are
just starting to direct movies because it just occurred to
them that they might have a story whereth telling where
(32:05):
it's actually been centuries of not inflament, but you know,
like it's been at least a century long struggle to
even get one percent representation, which I think is about
still where we're at in terms of directing anyways. So
that's dumb. Uh. But back to School of Rock and
it's female characters. Let's talk about Principal Mullins because I
(32:28):
think she she has I guess, the most story of
any female character, or I love her. I don't know
how well she's treated by the story, but as a character,
I love her. She's in charge, she's very good at
her job. She is respected by to some degree every
(32:51):
but like she is by pretty much everybody, I feel like,
I don't think anyone thinks she's doing a bad job, right,
But there's like liking someone and then not or like
respecting them are really different. Sure, yeah she's respected, but
I think she acknowledges And then there's also a scene
like in the teacher's lounge where she's like harping on
about something and Dewey's like she always like this and
(33:14):
they're like, oh yeah, like they don't really see her
as like someone, which makes sense because she's there's superior
boss like that. Yeah, We're like, yeah, he's so fu
up night. And then there's that scene where they go
out to coffee, which ends up being a giant mug
of beer instead of coffee. She's like she or you
(33:35):
don't have coffee and he's like, oh, I'm sure she's
so good. Afterwards she's like, no one thinks I'm cool.
I had to become this pitch and he's like, no, no, no,
you're cool. So I kind of like that scene where
she's like, this role made me have to be a
certain way, or at least she feels that way, and
(33:58):
she's acknowledging that because maybe a woman in power, I
had to assume this role to be respected, right. I
like that she acknowledges that, and that the movie addresses it.
Isn't the most poignant thing ever, No, but they do it. Yeah,
they do it. I remember when I was a kid too.
That really stuck out to me because it was like
(34:19):
the only felt like the only point in the movie
that was like legitimately serious, like I didn't fully understand
what it was there getting it. I also didn't even
know that she mouthed the word bitch. I was like,
what's what's she's saying. But because it does, like it
does get serious and he visibly seems a comfortable. I
think he feels bad for thinking she's uptight, but having
her talk about that, like she felt like she had
to become this ubtype version and couldn't really balance both
(34:41):
because most movies will have a role very similar to hers,
where it's like the Boss, she's a shrew, she's very uptight,
and we only see her in that role. We never
see her like that moment be like, yeah, I know
that I've become this I didn't ever want to be
this person, but this is who I had to become
to be respected in this role. Yeah, that's that's a
(35:01):
great point. First of all, junk fucking rules, every line
read she gives in this movie is the best line read.
I wonder how I feel like she never had to
do a second take. She she also has like really
good off I think lines that she came up with
her improv stuff that's seen in the teacher's lounge where
they're like after she stops giving her speech and Jack lexical.
(35:22):
She always like that they like pan to her with
their conversation. The main one has been in the background,
She's like, and then the turkey sand which just touched
the people. You know, this is a big deal, and
I'm like, Joan killing it. There's serious and the way
she's like always like a little bit hunched over. She's like,
I know she she does really good pers lips always,
(35:45):
especially when you drinking that beer or like sipping it.
She's really allowed to Joane out, which is like, so
it's so good. I also appreciate that the story does
not push her and Dewey together romantic maybe a little bit,
but for the most part, I think it's mostly a
friendship where even at one point she asks if he'll
(36:07):
go to parents knight with her, because she's like, it's
not a date or anything. I just like being around
you makes me feel more comfortable, which is friendship. And
I don't think she really necessarily has the vocabulary for
friendship unfortunately, but like it would have been another super
easy choice for this movie to be like and then
totally the uptight principle and cool think in like sort
(36:30):
of pervert institute teacher Meg Love and having it phrase
too and a wait where like that absolutely could have happened,
Especially then I feel like that steals whatever progress she's
made as being something that he showed her how to
do instead of her just like realizing she doesn't have
to be that way. She doesn't, right, and and yeah,
it's like she by the end, she's not doing I mean,
I guess she's maybe doing a little bit less of
(36:52):
a good job and that she's endorsing the school of Rock.
But also it's like she doesn't really have to sacrifice anything,
I feel the way a lot of female characters have
to where she does her job throughout, including the greatest
line read ever of I've just been informed that your
kids are missing shrug, so good. But she doesn't really
(37:17):
like nothing is taken from her, which was also refreshing.
Is she continues, you know, we assume she continues to
have her job. It's implied at the end that maybe
she's going to hook up with the new guitarist wearing
the half leather jack the most comfortable like every time.
Every time watches, I like have to look away. I
can't sit it's like too too much, uncomfortable because it's hot,
(37:39):
and she's like, there's more tattoo. It's awful every bit.
But again, it's like she is at first glance of
a shrewish character, but for me that is subverted enough
through the story and actually giving her character some attention
(38:00):
and an arc of I feel like her arc is
she realizes she doesn't need to be I mean, and
I guess this does speak to the truth, like you
don't have to be so fucking uptight. But I think
she like, in the context of this character, she realizes
she can be more herself and still be very good
at her job. And this is a sort of a
(38:22):
male impose, but like you can like Fleetwood Mac and
be a good private school principle, which is, you know,
it's not the perfect lesson, but I like it. It
worked for me. Yeah, I mean, she's sort of adhering
to this, like society's rules dictate that I have to
be this very uptight, especially because it's like the private
(38:43):
school sector. These kids parents are paying fifteen thousand dollars
a year for them to pretend which actually is not
that much. I was like staring considering college. Well that
and I've known of like private elementary or maybe it
was high schools. I don't know, but that ship costs
so much money. Three baby true, Lucy goofy. I almost
(39:05):
said pre nine eleven it wasn't it was, but it
was first well first, second bush Admin first half of
the sec different was weird. I did want to bring
up that this movie comes out just at at the
sort of as the man Child trope is really taken off,
(39:27):
and it's going to stick with us till this fucking
day seth Rogan is still around, He's still alive. Did
you know no one's harpooned him yet? That's always going
to go. This is he. I'm gonna harpoon him. I've
threatened to do it before. Uh. I hate the man
child trope, but in this again, this movie is a
(39:48):
big fat exception where it just works. I don't know
it why, I think that that's that's what it is.
It's the man child surrounded by literal children, and I
can't handle that many children in a movie, which is fair,
I did. I did want to bring that up because
that is a huge pet peeve of mine that again
in this movie just gets a full pass and I
(40:09):
openly love him. Let's talk about the female students. Can
we talk about Tamkas Like by far, I always think
she's the best character in this whole movie. I think
so too. So she's the student who he calls turkey suboriginally,
which I thought was because she was heavy, but it's
because he takes a turkey sub out of her desk
the first day steals and for so long I was like,
(40:31):
this is my biggest complaint with this movie. Why are
you fat shaming this wonderful girl. But also the movie
made the choice to have her be the only character
with food in her desk, so that or that was
like willing to share it true. Maybe she's just a
very generous person. She's great, Yeah, she's great. He does
take your turkey step. Yeah, So with her, the fact
(40:52):
that like she's very quiet gets a sign I think
security as a job. And then comes up to him
after and it's like, actually want to be a singer
and it is too afraid saying and stuff, and then
overcomes that sings has like an incredible voice, and it's
just like that scene before I think it's the auditions
for the Battle of the Bands where she gets too
nervous and pulls him aside. I go back to all
(41:13):
the time, and every time I watch it, I feel
like the older I've gotten, the more I appreciate the
language in that scene, because she says that she's too
nervous to sing, and he asked why, and she says,
I'm afraid they're gonna laugh at me, that they're gonna
call me fat, and he says, like to me, because
that's not a problem, and like he it's just the
wording is like he never actually says like you're not overweight,
or like you're not because she is a bit heavier.
(41:33):
And he also isn't like you can go on a
diet or like try to make her feel like there's
other options. He just says, like, what you want to
do is what you want to do, and being fat
isn't that's not equivalent to being ugly. And there's like
so much throughout all of that, and he goes and says, like,
you know, Aretha Franklin, she's a big lady, but she
doesn't safe she can sing. Everyone wants to party with
Aretha possible, And then he's like, and you know me,
(41:57):
like I have a way to shoe too. She asked
why he does go on a diet, and he just says,
because I like to eat. Is that a problem, and
then goes on to say like, but then people worship
me and like accept me when I'm up there, and
then just basically says like you can sing if you
want to, but it's up to you. And the fact
that he's not like, you're not I promise, let's just
do this, and that it's still up to her to
decide and they're choice, and that I just like, it's
(42:18):
always so like Rewatching, it warms warms my little heart.
It's a great I mean, like the fact that he
doesn't shame where that he's like, it's okay to eat
or be overweight as long as you're comfortable with yourself.
I'm just like, wow, especially, I feel like movies of
that time are so bad that when I go back
to Rewatch well and Richard Linkletter, movies are historically pretty bad.
With that, I mean, this is written by Mike White,
(42:40):
so good, good guy, the Blonde Eyelash to God we
know as Mike White, but you're totally right, like as
I've gotten older and watched that scene. It is kind
of remarkable how it holds up pretty much like the
way and Tamika is just cool, like she's fucking cool
(43:03):
and so talented, and she wearing her Avril Levina. Everyone
looks like blank money d two or all of those
hair pieces that are bright pink that I always wish
I had, but I was not cool enough, But then
I learned I was. I just had to believe you
were just like Lawrence Exac. Well, that's I wanted to
talk about the kid, because, um, the kid, the kid.
(43:26):
Um all all of the story treats. There's like two
male students that have arcs, and then two female students
that have arcs, and then the rest are kind of tertiary,
which is fine, they're not all going to have an ARC.
But I did like that sort of regardless of gender,
all the students were treated with either respect or not respect,
depending where we're at in the movie by Dewey, which
(43:50):
I think is a testament to even though he's a
you know, man child character, he is respectful of the
students and really does listen to them, and there's like
scenes where he's collaborating with them and treating them to
songs or when my favorite part where they're collaborating words
were in Zack and Zack song and Zacks sacrete song
(44:12):
where rock is the reason, rock is the rhyme and
he's like, no, no, no, rock, got no reason, rock,
got no rock. I'm like, you guys are just fucking pals.
I love it. But and then he says to right
after that, because he's like suggests that in Zach like okay,
because they all have been taught. I mean their parents
are all like super strict and terrifying, especially his. And
then he's like, well, no, no, no, like it's a suggestion,
(44:34):
this is your song. Like it's just like so I'm like, wow,
you respect children? Who does not enough people were changing
the lyrics. Sorry, Like but like seeing that when you're
probably again like seeing that when you're like eleven, You're
just like yeah. And when he does that whole song
of like teaching them to basically like flip off whatever
(44:56):
stress of yeah, and it's like what, here's you? And
then I for her name, the brace face girl says
homework and then the adorable like smallest child of the
bunch is just like bullies. You're like you're just like,
there's a whole other movie here. I think what bothered
(45:17):
me about the dynamic of the band at least is
that all the main parts of the band, which is
Zach gets lean guitar, Lawrence gets keyboard. Who's the drummer,
little little like burn stuff, the little road, what do
(45:38):
you like to do your time stuff? She's like, okay,
reasons forever, sorry, okay. And then there's the bass player
who Katie. So she a great day for everyone. She's
pretty much the only because you can the backup vocals,
(45:59):
they're kind of backups. So if we're just like isolating
the main members, the frontman of the band, we only
have one girl. She gets very little lines of dialogue
of screen time. Weirdly enough, her main moment is and
I know, you know, is the exchange she has with
(46:20):
Freddie A k Spazie McGhee white about Meg White. Yeah,
like two good female drummers, and then she, I mean
she names at least one good female. I'm not a
huge Meg White. That's also know, that's something that like
there's so many drummers like I credited who have simple beats,
(46:40):
who just like do what she is doing and she's
doing what they're doing who get credited as like being
like Ringo. Everyone always makes jokes about how he's not
a super intricate drummer or anything, but like she has
a simple part if you play drums every day and
going tour all the time, like she can play. She
can do stuff beyond that, but that's just her role.
And people always like, I don't know, there was a
really good, really really good piece on Meg White, and
(47:03):
like how she doesn't get the respect she's deserved and
has always been like the butt of the joke on
Hazel It maybe okay, I have to look it up,
but like so when she names those people and does
like she even white from the White stripes, and he's like,
she can't drum, she's better drummer than you. That that
I mean, that was a great yeah, especially because like
I feel, I feel like it's like trying to balance it.
But she I've always been under the impression that Katie
(47:26):
doesn't talk because she didn't want to. I think when
the they had rehearsals, which I also like to be
idealist and think like they didn't have a lot of
girls I like try out for the other parts. Maybe
they did. I don't know, they're still I'm sure sexism
that comes into play there in terms of who you choose,
But I think they chose her because she was really
good at base and she didn't want to talk, because
even when Jack Black is telling her how to do
(47:47):
those like big poofy lips and stuff, she doesn't I'm
pretty sure she doesn't talk at all during that. She's
not even like okay, like no like one syllable words
or anything. And at the end she's the only one
in the credit who doesn't solo, and you can tell
because of editing. I think either she did or she
didn't because she gets scared on camera. She's also clearly
(48:08):
still does music. But I think she was someone who
was like wanted to play and do this, and they
wanted to have her, and I think we're almost or
I don't know, but it seems like they were like,
we care enough about having you that it's okay if
you don't have a lot of lines, because she has
a lot of the iconic stuff with like the cello,
that she could have been more involved in, but she
just like always looks terrified. Yeah, then make the keyboard
(48:31):
player a girl, or like I don't know, They're just
there were more opportunities to have more of like the
main band be one of those characters, were more than
one be a girl and with lines and an arc
and stuff like that. I mean that said three, if
you're not including Jack Black, three of the four main
people are white. Lawrence is the only one who's a
(48:51):
person of color. Like that's something else too that I rewatching.
Feel like their class is more diverse than like I
feel like for a private school, way more diverse than
what imagined it would be. Right, Yeah, in terms of casting, right,
I agree in terms of the band, but in terms
of the class as a whole, we do get two
male student arcs, two female student arcs, with the female
(49:12):
student arts are Tamika and Summer. The male student arcs
are Zack and Lawrence. So in that way it kind
of I agree in terms of like musical representation, but
in terms of the story I felt pretty good watching
at this time of Like, Summer does get her arc
of She's the Little Shrew basically, and is originally presented
(49:35):
as an annoyance and a foil to Jack Black trying
to teachers. Yeah, but by the end he's like she's
going to be the first female president, which still could
be true. Yeah, go for it, Miranda, we loved you,
and Drake and Josh we loved you, and I Carle
time to become the president, and I feel like they
(49:56):
try given time limit too, because they probably could have
gone longer. A lot of the montages try to show
I mean, as any film does, growth between people. But
I really like that they show Gordon Gordon, Lizzie McGuire,
the Gordo, the little boy, the light handles, the lights
and like technology stuff because they during their like the
final Battle of the Band scene too, they show him
(50:18):
and like his work often and from his perspective. Also,
the person watching him is a female light technician and
not or like stage hand person and not a boy,
which like if you think of like on stage representation
offstage is like way less music industry. So I was like, wow,
that's nice and like not what I thought it would
be when I noticed that later in life. So I
(50:39):
like that they show his stuff and like actually give
it credit. They just like credit kids is being smart
and capable of learning a lot, which is a it's
a pretty true yeah, and the good kids can't learn.
It was a waste of time and like, one of
the best and most exciting things I've seen this movie
when You're a kid is being like I'm a kid
and I can do stuff. That's my representation is so important.
(51:04):
That's why we's gonna say, and also a better representation
of women. Um does this movie pass the Backtel tests? Yes,
Yes it does. What where although do we know that
(51:24):
teacher's name? Where? Um, the principal is talking to a
lady teacher and she's like, don't have the peanut butter
sandwich the other sandwiches. That scene does not pass. At
least there are two women interacting. Yes, it does. It
does have it doesn't happen as much as it should.
There's no scene Sarah Silverman is in that I saw
(51:44):
that passes the Bactel test. Unfortunate, but there are So
there's a scene between John Cusack and a child where
she's yelling at the child but also like do you
want to hug and she's like no, and then she's like, Okay,
have a good day, Emily. That passes the test. Uh.
And then there's a scene right after that. I think
(52:04):
that it does pass because I think she's talking to
one of the teachers, who we learned has a name
in a previous scene even though I don't remember it.
After that leaves the school, yeah, where she's like, she's like, yeah,
the teachers slipped, but we've got a substitute, and so
she's technically talking about it, just like talking about her
tub because it's about him filling in and explaining what
he does. Either way, it already passes. But there are
(52:30):
so many opportunities for like the three backup singers who
were all girls, to be like, hey, I like to
sing me too, Like they could have talked. There could
have been there's there are more opportunities that were missed,
especially imagine just like natural conversation that would have occurred
that would have been relevant between everyone summer as the
band manager was controlled, like you know, had jurisdiction over everybody,
(52:53):
she could have talked to the backup singers, she could
have talked to the bass player, all kinds of people.
But we don't see any of those scenes. So let's
all give School of Rock a nipple rating on our
famous nipple rating scale. And this is not how much
you liked the movie, but how well you think it
treats women on a scale of one to five and
(53:13):
then we're going to need some description to those nips.
I'm going to give this movie a three and a
half nipples because Richard Lingler in a hole. I give
him a punch in the mouth. As of right now,
that interview really bothered me. But this movie, uh, the
shrew problem is almost entirely responsible for why I'm gonna
(53:35):
knock off points, and I think of us really being honest.
It's more of a three three and a half though.
The shrewd the shrewdestness, especially of the Sarah Silverman character,
which is like a double punch in the gut because
it's like, don't do that to Sarah fucking Silverman, are
you kidding? Every scene she's in she's like right, So
that's not fair. Um. But we do see growth in
our main female character, principal Rosalie Mullins played by Joan
(53:59):
Joan Out. I appreciate that they sort of take a
stereotype and, whether intentionally or not, at least subvert it
to Mika Amazing summer has. You know, she has an arc.
She goes on to become my Carly. It's all good.
I'm giving the nipples too. I'm giving two of them
(54:19):
to Adam Pascal because he's gonna need them. He's going
to film rent for two thousand and five. He's busy.
He's gonna need those nipples. I'm not gonna take them
away from him. I'm assuming that whoever we don't give
nipples two ceases to have them. I'm giving one blonde
nipple to Mike White, very pale, and then I'm giving
(54:40):
the last half a nipple just busy McGhee. Okay, yeah,
I'm gonna go with four. I went in originally thinking more,
but then hearing a lot of your thoughts about it
made me change my mind, which makes sense because Sarah
Silverman really doesn't at all, which is the one that
I knew ahead. But then Joe and I feel like
I always thought of her more as changing, but there
often isn't because the blind she had there in the background.
(55:01):
But is it? I like, want to give it to
kids as an award, but then I'm also like, no,
that's wrong. This is the same space. Give the children nipples,
they need them, humanity will cease to be Oh we milk.
It feels too weird, So I'm not going to I'm
gonna give it to one to Jack Black's ex bandmate
(55:22):
who was in Once because my mom loves that musical.
Shout out to that guy. I'm gonna give one to Know.
I'm gonna give two to that woman who works behind
the board, the sound board about all of the band's
respect her. And then I'll give one to Joan. She
deserves it, she deserves it, She's worked hard. I'm gonna
give it two and a half nipples. I'm sorry, but
(55:46):
it's still largely fine a man's movie. Jack Black steals
the show, and by that and he's given the show,
he steals. Its written for him. It's a show and
a lot of a lot of his interactions are with
other boys in the band, so it's still a very
(56:07):
male heavy movie. The female characters that there are, as
we pointed out, are often very like uptight, high strung
so and then of the ones who are turtle like vibe.
Of the ones who aren't barely get any screen time
to make a great character. I love her. She doesn't
get a ton of screen time or lines, doesn't play
(56:29):
a huge role in the story as tender and wonderful
as her scene is where she's like, I'm afraid people
are gonna laugh at me because I'm fat, Sarah Soloman,
Summer Principal, John Cusack. They're all like um, which is fine.
There are people like that. That's totally cool. But let's
see a broader representation of women. There are other types
of women like me, wretched but also cool anyway, So
(56:54):
I give it two and a half nipples. They belong
to Jack Black, the nipples that we see that the
children also see. And then a half nupple goes to
I'm gonna say, Julie Depley from Before Sunrise cool because
we see her nipples in Before Midnight. Actually, so that's
the half nipple. Do you everything? Jack Black and Jack
(57:15):
White hang out anyways every day. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Where can people find you online? I'm on
the Internet on the Twitter. My name is Nina Corkor
and then that's my handle with an underscore. You can
find me in print and dig Boston if you live
in the city, and otherwise my name is very google ble.
There's not a lot of us. Nina Corkoran's out there.
(57:35):
We eat player and a cool girl who lives in Canada.
Hell yeah, we'll tag this ship out of you. There's
a lot of Jamie Lattis is out there and I
almost hooked up with one one time for another day.
All right, thanks for listening to the battel Cast. You
can find us on Twitter at bactel Cast. You can
find us on Instagram at backtel Cast. We just got
(57:56):
a website. It's becktel Cast Dot freaking calm. Give us money.
We need money really bad. There's a place to click
for money for us. Uh. Money for us is good always.
We're coming to New York in September. Come to that.
I keep wanting to say September eleven. It's not that
it's September. It's September nine. We're all fine. We're gonna
(58:18):
have a great time at the cinder Block Comedy Festival.
It's it's gonna be. It's gonna be a hip and
a hop in a fun time. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for looking.
Just punched the water wattle. Okay, gotta go.
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Caitlin Durante
Jamie Loftus
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