Spy Kids with Katherine Leon

Spy Jamie and Spy Caitlin track down special spy guest Katherine Leon to chat about Spy Kids. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have woum Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start
changing it with the bec del Cast du Dantana. Welcome

(00:22):
to the Bedel Cat. Should you cheese to accept this
mission for kids? My name is Jamie Lawton and my
name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our feminist podcast
about movies, about spies and about kids. We're pivotingly just

(00:43):
those things. It's Caitlyn the podcast Bubble his Burst. You
have to be more niche than ever. It's too broad.
We can only talk about spies who are also kids
and the media therein directed at them, So that means
we can talk about agent Cody Banks too and one Oh,

(01:07):
I mean I like t o as well. Yeah, I
guess that that is. Is there any other kids who
are is possible as girl kids? Who is spies? Well? Harry, Harry,
Oh my god, there's actually quite a lot of media
in this sub sub sub genre. We should have done
Spy September. There's so many spy movies for kids. I

(01:28):
like that. Also. Nancy Drew is kind of a spy. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,
she I love I loved Nancy Drew's in Barbed Nancy Drew.
Now there's a new Nancy Drew and now it's Barbed
from Stranger Things? Am I making this up? Oh? I
didn't think it was bar but there didn't. There was
a movie that came out that was in theaters for
I think two days and Starrying Emma Roberts or was

(01:50):
that a different that was a different one that that
was my I think that was my era Nancy Drew
two thousand seven. When they came out in twenty nineteen,
there was okay, I'm not got like brushed under the rug.
I know, unbelievable anyway, So we talk about the representation
of yes, yes, yes, and we use something called the

(02:15):
spy test to determine whether or not the kids in
the movie are watching our spies test. It's this is
our wildest episode yet. Hopefully this isn't your first episode. Yeah.
We talked about the betrayal women in movies, especially when

(02:35):
there's both spies and children, and then we use the
Becktel test as a jumping off point, and that, of course,
is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Becktel. Also
it's known as the Becktel Wallace test, and it requires
that two female identifying characters or two spies in a
movie as any general talked to talk to each other

(03:00):
about something other than a man or a spy man, right,
a man who's spying. Alison Bechdel, you know, is she
is spy? Not that we know of, or maybe she's
just that I hadn't considered what if we found out?
Alison Bechdel was both a great cartoonist and icon and
in the CIA that mean, did you want to cover

(03:22):
she's got? I used to want my parents to be
spies so bad because of this movie. Yeah, oh my god,
I got so into spy culture after this. I'm so excited. Okay,
so well, let's get into and we have a guest,
as we always do. She is a dear friend of ours.
She is a photographer. She's a producer of many comedy

(03:43):
shows around Los Angeles. She's helped out at various of
our live shows, including the show we did at San
Francisco Sketch Fest and the New York Comedy Festival. People
often confused her for our super producer Sophie, when it
is actually Catherine Leon. I loved getting mistaken for Sophie.

(04:04):
It wasn't honor, it wasn't welcome. This episode has truly
been I think years in the making. I think before
you established you were having a podcast where we were
even friends, the only thing I knew about you is
that you love SPI's the only thing I needed you
to know. That's a good spy. Wow, it's really throwing

(04:26):
me off. You know, a real a spy probably wouldn't
love a spy movie so much because it would you know,
it would be a dead giveaway. But they're kids. I'm
not a kid. We're not kids. But are you a spy?
Maybe that's what that was my way of telling you
there should have been a spy There should be a

(04:47):
spy adults spinoff. I agree. Well, there's sort of a
spinoff called Machete starring Danny Trejo. I don't think it's
not a real spinoff, but it isn't. There's a whole
Machete series directed by the same director as My Kids,
Robert Rodriguez, a movie franchise starring Danny trey Hoo playing
a character and I think named Machete, who was also

(05:10):
his character's name. In Spiks. We all wanted to be
a spinoff of Spikes, but we can't be sure. Actually,
if anyone in I would I wouldn't be surprised if
Robert Rodriguez like snuck in a little reference in Machete
just just for people's head Cannon, just because that is
his code name. So in that series, is that his

(05:32):
real name or is that a code name? I don't know.
No one's ever seen, So it's like we're just really guessing.
Maybe it's a direct spinoff. It's really clearly established at
the beginning, and we just don't know. We just truly
don't because we did not watch it right. But this
is I mean, this was my intro to Danny Treho
for this is my intro to a lot of actors.

(05:53):
So we were like watching. When we were watching it
back as a group last night, I didn't realize how
many like I recognized Tony Shliu, but I didn't. Like
when I was a kid, I was just like, oh,
that's Alexander Minion. Yeah, I didn't know who Allan Cumming was.
I was like, that's that's just was this everyone's first

(06:16):
Allan Cumming movie, isn't It was definitely mine. No, I
saw this movie for the first time when I was
thirty true and so No, my first ellen coming was
Josie and the Pussycats. I think that's I mean, there's
no bad way to be introduced. Absolutely not. He's the
greatest of all time. And I think this was the
first time unless I had already seen Yeah, I'm pretty

(06:38):
sure this would have been the first time I had
seen Antonio ben Daris, although maybe it had seen Zoro.
I'm not sure. I probably saw Zoro, like I'm sure
I've seen Zorow either the first or tie. I don't
know if the second one had come out yet, but
I definitely saw the first one. I don't know, I
don't remember the order, but there's so many famous Terry
Hatcher is in this. I probably didn't even know who
Cheech and Chong were definitely judges in this. Yeah, I

(07:02):
definitely didn't know who my judge was. All I cared
about was Carmen and like, I just wanted to be
Carmen and Juny I think, really an iconic siblings. That
was my whole thing with Caitlin, was trying to prove
to her that My Kids was a perfect movie was that.
I was like, this is the most accurate representation of

(07:24):
me and my brother in any movie depicted anywhere. Was
your age gap similar with your brother? I think so
it was four years, which seems kind of similar. Yeah, yeah,
my brother and I. This was I remember seeing this
movie and maybe this is bad, but like the kids
in this movie, it is like very realistic how much
they beat the ship out of each other, Like you

(07:46):
don't usually see that in movies. You see maybe a
light verbal argument. The Carmen and Judy throws a dumbbell
at his sister after she kicks him off of a
jungle jack like she him off of a jungle gym.
He falls to the ground, she plays on like hard
like conte, she like swings off, and then when she

(08:07):
turns around, he picks up a weight and tries to
throw it at her and hits a plant or something,
which I don't know. I remember seeing this movie and
being like, oh my god, kids are supposed to hit
each other. Thank god, I've been doing this to my brother.
But it was like this would probably have been two
thousand one, would have been around the time because my
brother and I have like the same age gap where

(08:28):
my brother got mad at me, and this is when
I was like losing teeth left and right, and he
planned a sting operation. Well, he's definitely he's no, he's
just a devious young man. Where he he must have
been like four or five, and he like crawled up
into my bed and he slammed his butt onto my head.

(08:50):
And I lost two teens because I because I didn't
forget what he's like. You just told my Pokemon card
and then like but slammed my head and then I
got ten dollars from the tooth Fairies. Maybe your brother
was the tooth fair He was so mad and my
parents thought it was really like we got in trouble.

(09:11):
But there my dad was like, so you sat on
Jamie's head, He's like really hard. Yeah. I would have
been in like second, second or third grade or something
when this movie came out, So you guys were the
target demo the right. So officially, Catherine, what is your
history with this, your relationship, etcetera. I can't remember seeing

(09:32):
it in theaters. I know that, like, I don't recall
seeing it in theaters, but I definitely have the VHS.
It is currently on my dining room table because I
tried to give it to keep. I tried to give
it to you. Um, but I just watched it a
lot as a kid, and like a big thing for me,
I think was being able to see like Hispanic representation

(09:52):
and I was like, oh, these kids are like they
kind of look like like I guess Judia doesn't look
like my brother. But I was like, Carmen kind of
looks like me as like a child old and I
kind of saw a lot of my family and like
their family and that was like cool. And that was
probably one of my first earliest movies. Uncle, I have
an uncle that is Danny and Cheech Marin and Antonio

(10:15):
and Alan Cumming, Antony, my mom's Terry Hatcher. It's a
whole thing. Um. Spy Kids was based off of my
way of telling you, there's a lot of secrets you're
revealing to me as if you are. Um No, I
think I just watched it a lot when I was
a kid, Like it was just I found it enjoyable.

(10:36):
I thought it was super funny, and I think, like
Jamie was saying, like, I was like, oh, I think
I want to be a spy, like I got into
I remember Scholassic book Fair stuff had like spy books
and spike here that you would like order and I
can't remember anything I bought. But there was nothing really
to it other than the fact that we just liked
it as a family. And I think because my parents

(10:58):
knew who like Antonio Benderis was, they were like, oh, yeah,
we like this movie too because we know these actors,
which is a big thing because my parents don't really
know They don't really watch movies and they only really
know like big name people, and I think Antono Bendaris
was like clearly a person that they were like, we
know him. This movie is allowed, Jamie, what about your

(11:21):
relationship to this movie. I love this movie. I remember
seeing it in UM theaters with my cousins very occasionally.
There's like a few movies I remember seeing with all
kinds of my cousins very clearly UM and this was
one of them. Were just so many children heard of

(11:43):
sounds like my family too. Yeah, just like a heard
of sweaty kids and like to adult, not enough adults
to adults. But I remember this. My Auntie Bunny brought
us because she had a huge crush on Antonio Benderis
and she was like she was like just like a
weird aunt thing where she was remember being in like
the van and being like, there's something for everyone in

(12:04):
this movie, and you're like, you, this is a movie
where we had like we were still like poor. So
it's like for ten of us we had like a
tube of starburst and we would pass them down to
each other. But I thought, for some reason this was
like an embarrassing moment. I know this story, yeah, where

(12:26):
like they were passing them down the row and for
some reason I thought my cousins were unwrapping them for
me was eating them with the paper on, and I
was like, why is it taste weird? And they were
just like you suck and I got junium. But I
loved this, Like it also got me really really interested
in spying. And I never I didn't see Harriet the

(12:49):
Spy when I was a kid. I don't think I
said that was my that was my like I want
to be a spy because I've seen Harriet the Spy.
I don't. I don't know, but yeah, And this was
definitely the first movie about spiking that I've seen. And
like I had like a picture of Alexa Vega in
my room, like I just I love I loved it,
and I remember I think that we saw two and
three in theaters too. Definitely three because you had three

(13:11):
D glasses. Yes, maybe I did to the three D glasses.
Definitely sounds familiar, but I couldn't tell you what the
plot was of three. Three. I remember three better than
two because three takes place inside of a video virtually. Yeah,
is that the Sylvester Salone one? I think so that. Actually,

(13:32):
I'm so excited. It's a it's a really good and
all three of them around Netflix too. There's those four
to with Joe McCann Alba weird. I don't think any
of the original people are in it, but I think
the second one is about Donnegan, who's the guy that
gets kidnapped, and the first one way Judge. I think

(13:55):
judges in the second one, yeah, because he's the main
like bad guy thing because his kids kids start becoming
because like they're like, okay, spy kids are okay. Now
Now it's like a weird family competition between Donagan's family
and the Cortez family because I think they're just remember
one scene in particular where they're at like a banquet

(14:15):
and all of the parents get poisoned. And they're like
the kids have to save that. Whoever's the best spy
kid becomes like the spy kid or something like that. Incredible, incredible, Arisubtle,
you've been nodding along. Are you also a huge fan
of these? I'm not on arizontal. I was like going

(14:36):
into it being like Hill at least are we all this?
Are the three of us the same age, we're all okay?
So yeah, just truly like one of those like prim downbies.
I'm an eighties six baby, and that's why I've never
seen it. Is so weird, like when we covered this

(14:59):
like cific like run of ten years that like being
born even a couple of years apart, like will decide
whether you've seen it or not, like someone born in
like maybe night, Like I don't know, Like, yeah, my
younger brother, he probably doesn't remember seeing this movie for
the first time or anyways, Spies kids, I love it.

(15:20):
Should I jump into the recap? Yes? Okay, so um
there are two kids. They're not spies yet, don't worry.
Junie and Carmen. Carmen wants her mom to tell her
bedtime story about two spies who fell in love. She
tells the story the lady spies mission was to kill

(15:41):
the man spy and his mission was to kill her.
But instead of killing each other, they fall in love
and they get married. And it turns out that those
two spies are Carmen and Junie's spy mom and spy dad,
but they've retired from being spies, they're not consultants, and

(16:02):
they've started a family. Their names are Gregorio Cortez that's
Antonio Pinderes and Ingrid the mom played by what is
her name? Carla Gugina. So meanwhile, Juni, the little boy,
he loves this TV show called Floops. You say that,

(16:26):
like we haven't been saying that over and over again.
Floops Figi is such a tongue twister. Okay, even now
watching now, Floops, I would say is scarier than when
I first saw it. There's like body horror in this
show I have now in the graphics are wild. Now
I'm wondering like maybe this was like the first movie

(16:48):
where I'd seen like body horror, and maybe because it's
now one of my favorite things, I'm like, maybe maybe
I'm not giving spy kids, like I forgot how much
of it, Like it was an impressionable film. The Tony
Schlub at the druple head at the end and his hands.
For some reason, the thumb people the thumb. Also, Katherine

(17:12):
You pointed out that on Netflix the thumbnail for this
movie is a thumb thumb. So it's a thumbsumb thumbnail
someone that Netflix has. Okay, So Junie watches this the
show Floop's Fog lease Uh. We see a scene where
we meet Mr Flup played by Alan Cumming, my king

(17:36):
in his layer. And then the bad Terminator from Terminator
Too is also there and he's giving a lot of exposition.
His name is Mr Lisp sure that I never understood.
But and then Tony Shaloub is also there as Flop's
minion named Alexander Minion. That's a reveal that you don't

(17:59):
find out till later on. To take his glasses off before,
I mean, Alan Cumming is subscribing to like she's all
that logic, where like Tony Sheli takes off his glasses
and Alan commings like, oh my god, I know you,
I've seen you before. We're enemies. I don't like the

(18:20):
implication that in order to become powerful, Tony Schlup has
to take his glasses off as a frequent glasses wearer.
That's fair. To be fair, you're not wearing them now
only because I messed with the headphones. It's a whole thing.
But I will say it was I don't even think
this was done intentionally, but like it was fun to
see that trope inverted for once, Like it's never uh

(18:45):
man who takes off his glasses and then everyone's like,
you're our bus now. Alexander Minion, Oh, such a goofy name,
because Alan Cumming and Antonio bander Us have to say
that name dead serious. It's a very serious situation. He
is the bad guy, like he's the deep seated villain

(19:08):
in this movie, and both of them do have to
say it in such like oh way where you're like, oh,
I'm scared. I have to be scared of this. But
Fantonio Vanderis Reid was like pretty's like Alexanderminian and then
Tony she lives like, yes, it's me great. Okay. So

(19:28):
before all that happens, we learned that Flop is both
I guess, the host and executive producer of his own
children's show and an inventor. Oh sure what you mean? Yea?
So Flop is also an inventor who we learned has
been trying to make an army of super secret agents,

(19:50):
but they turned out all weird and mutated, and now
the only use he has for them is to put
them as characters on his show, which sounds like it's
almost saying something else that is like m that should
that word shouldn't be in a children's movie. Oh, I
think I know what you mean. A junior high in

(20:11):
salt that hurt my feelings. One. Yeah, a lot of
weird choices in this movie overall. But so Floop also
has this army of thumb thumb robots, which are like
sort of useless, and then he also has these highly
trained killer robots that are designed to look exactly like

(20:33):
specific children, which Floop calls spy kids with jazz hands
when he says it, stare called spike comics. Performance in
this movie is the best part of this movie. It's
so good. And and in that scene, I think between
the two of them, they say spy kids four or

(20:53):
five picks, and so tell me more about these spi
kids like Robert Rodriguez, you you goof Uh. The only
problem with these spy kid robots, though, is that they
can't talk and they don't have brains. Meanwhile, spy Daddy
gets called on a mission because several OSS agents have

(21:15):
disappeared in OSS is like the secret spy agency that
they used to work for the spy parents. So spy
Mom decides to go with spy Dad. We'll talk about
that scene, okay. So they call uncle Felix played by
cheech marin two Babies at the kids, but a bunch

(21:38):
of bad guys show up, and then Felix is like,
by the way, your parents are spies, I'm not your
real uncle, and you need to deliver a message to
the OSS, tell them that the third brain lives. Felix
fights off the bad guys and then the not yet
spy kids escape in a spy vehicle to a safe house. Meanwhile,

(22:00):
the spy parents get captured by Floop, and we learn
that Floop is after something that he thinks the OSS
destroyed and he wants spy Daddy to rebuild it for him. Uh.
And then the not yet spy kids have equipped themselves
with some spy years, so they're getting a little closer
to becoming spy kids. They're training themselves, they're training them taking,

(22:24):
they're being proactive in training themselves to be spies. And
then Terry Hatcher shows up. Never a good sign, never
the but I forgot about the Terry Hatchery body horror
scene and that, like because I haven't seen this movie
and maybe like five years at least, and I was like,

(22:44):
oh my god, like they really do her dirty in
this anyways, Yeah, it's wild. She shows up pretending to
be Oss, but it turns out that she and all
the people she's with are also bad guys, and they
tricked the kids into giving them the Third Brain, which
is the thing that spy Dad had created that Flop
is after. So the kids chased after the bad guys

(23:06):
and they get the Third Brain back and now they're
even closer to becoming actual official spy kids. But meanwhile,
back at the Flupe House flu Flop Minions. Flope also
lives in a really cool it's a boot shape. The
castle on the top flop House is so silly. So

(23:29):
Floup's minion, named Alexander Minion is like, hey, I made
your spy kid robots look like Carmen and Junie, and
then those evil doppelgangers go after the real Carmen and
Junie and steal the Third Brain back. Uh. And then
the kids go to this guy Machette as we discussed

(23:50):
as Danny Treo's character, for help and that they learned
that he is their actual uncle. But he's like, I
don't want to help you because I hate my brother.
So they his spy plane and fly it to his
spy plane Flupe House. But Danny Trejo is also like,
fine with it. I think he set it up. Yeah,
and then he's like, ha ha ha, you you guys

(24:13):
are wild. I love seeing Danny Trejo smile. It's always
so disarming, sweet man. So they're at the Flue House now,
where Tony Shaloub has promoted himself to to the evil
mastermind behind this whole plan, and he's making copies of

(24:34):
the Third Brain and putting it into the army of
spy kid robots. And then Alexander Minion turns Spy Daddy
into a Fogli and then Carmen and Junie rescue their
parents with the help of Flupe, who is now a
good guy because he cares more about his TV show
than about building an army, which what a wild precedent

(24:57):
that I can't quite at my head around that one.
But I love that conversation that and Katherine, you're saying
the like that shot where Floop is like in the
clouds and he's huge for some reason and Junie is
so little, and then it cuts back and at one
point he's like sitting cross legged, just like totally thinks

(25:19):
that this is real. That shot is so funny because
first it's like standing because he's supposed to be scary,
and then he gets closer to Junie and then he's
like just lounging in the clouds. They're like talking about
their feel having little therapy said, they really are, they
really are, and Junie is the one that makes him
realize that he's good inside. He doesn't need an army
of robots. It's so that's you know, I mean rewatching it.

(25:42):
I was just like, oh wow, like Junie harnessed the
power of like Sensi boy to save the day. It
was like his superspy power was expressing his feelings. It's true.
It's true. So now that Floop is a good guy
with his hell they all turn Minion into a Fogli.

(26:05):
But he's like, he's like I like it. He has
five heads and he's having a great time uh. And
then the Spy family they're about to fight the evil
Robot doppelgang or spy kid children, but then Flop has
reprogrammed them all to be philanthropic or something. He's switches

(26:28):
their brain to think that what's right is wrong, what's wrong,
he's right apparently. So then they go after like Minion
and Terry Hatcher and the evil Terminator from Terminator to
and then they're like, where is spy family now? And
then they live happily ever after, there's that great Alexa

(26:51):
Vega who Miles went to high school with. I just
found out to high school with. Goddamn everyone. It's and there,
but Alexa beg it gives that powerful speech to camera
to close that the movie where she's like, there's listen,
there's spies and there's kids. There's sometimes spies should be

(27:14):
a part of a spy family if your family is
the most important spy kit of all and turns the
TV right. And so that's the story. Let's take a
quick break and then we will come right back to discuss.
And we're back. It's time to get into deep cannon.

(27:37):
I mean this is requires analysis. Yes, yes it does.
For me, having never seen this movie, having not grown
up with it seeing it through the adult eyes that
I saw it through. You know, an objective observer will
say to me, it seemed like the female characters and
the male characters are presented as being generally eat really

(28:00):
competent and smart and good at their jobs. And I
think it's mostly because Carmen is older, but she is
presentative as being far more competent than her little brother JUNI.
So we see this a lot. This is like a
thing and we talked about a little bit in Jurassic Park.
This is something we've seen in a lot of movies

(28:21):
where it's like an older sister younger brother, and the
older sister is presentatives being more competent, which I guess
makes sense for their age, but it's also good for
us because we too often see women who are not competent. Yes,
I I mean, I love I still stand Carmen to

(28:42):
this day, like there's there and and like like something
that I mean, it is like a more realistic sibling
portrayal than you see in most kids movies, especially in
a movie there's otherwise fucking crazy. Um Like I I
really liked the sibling relationship and also that you see
Carmen be moody and like kind of means sometimes, but

(29:04):
it's not like the movie is never like and you
should be like, it's she's being a kid. She's being
a really smart kid. And I really like capable kid
and a really spy kids and really spying, and she's
spying the whole time, and and like even when she's
mean to her brother, like it's she cares about him
and she protects him and he helps her, and I

(29:26):
just I don't know, I really like they didn't do anything.
I didn't think to make her the girl spy, like
she was just one of the spies, which I love,
big sister energy love it. Yeah, that was great. I
also enjoyed that you get to see a little boy
expressing fear, being afraid, kind of being sort of the

(29:50):
more sensitive one, and then the little girl being brave
and like kind of taking initiative, because you usually don't
see either of those things, or the roles will be
reversed where it's like the boy gets to be brave,
the girl is scared. So it's nice that you see
that little flip and juny child warts I was thinking

(30:11):
a little cousin the whole time. I was like child warts,
visibility man and his little neon band, So it's my
little cousin. Uh. And then I liked that they both had.
For Juny, it's his his warts, and then for Carmen
it becomes a critical plat point that she wears a

(30:31):
diaper at night and like has bed wedding issues, which
is just like something you never see in a movie
from a kid who's also really cool and you're supposed
to like them. So I was like, you know, like
power to the child bed wetters, there's such but there is.
I mean, it's it's like there is such a stigma,
especially when you're a kid of like, you know, this

(30:53):
kid still what's the bed? And like the hero of
our movie still what's the bed? And yeah, her brother
makes fun of root for it. But then they also
land a submarine into Exa like moments later, so I'm like, well,
I guess the bed wedding is kind of a wash.
I don't know. That was a cool and that was
also I thought that that was going to be a

(31:14):
one off joke because it's said between the parents one
of the many times they're trapped, and I like, I
don't know if this was but I assumed it was
Juny because he was younger and had warts or something.
I don't know. But but then you find out later
that it's Karmen and it's actually an important plot point
because it makes them crash the submarine because she's like

(31:36):
she's mad, AT's at him. Yeah, I don't know, like
those like little details that like would I remember that
from being a kid, because you're like, oh, bed wedders
is not being made fun of, like sick I make
I'm making it sound and now I'm like in a
double dick, like I didn't actually wet the bed, Okay, Jamie,

(31:58):
sounds like you did. Actually it wasn't wedding the bed
in two thousand one. I didn't did only two when
I skipped over that year. But back in business pp
every night. Did you ever wet the bed as a teenager? No,

(32:18):
I did, Guys, I've peed in my pants like at
the door as an adult totally. Like I got so
used to not when I would drive an hour each
way to go to work, Like I just would get
into habit of not peeing before I drove. So when
I'm at the door, I'm like, I'm going to pee
if I don't open this door. And I've done it

(32:39):
countless times. I can't even I don't even know anymore.
Remember my first breakup in high school, I was being
so dramatic that I just wet the bed one day.
I'm like, I'm not leaving my bed. I'm I'm too depressed.
I just pissed myself, and I was like, that was
a bad idea. This has been a nice sharing time anyway.

(33:04):
So yeah, I think this movie, which is clearly directed
towards like children and like families, uh, does a lot
of good things in terms of representation that so many
kids movies, many of which we've discussed on the podcast,
do not do, and in fact, a lot of them
have done more harm than good. But yeah, this one,

(33:25):
as we said, normalizes bad wedding and warts. It shows
girls and women being just as competent and smart as
the boys and men. It shows Katherine, you touched on this.
But so we're trying to figure out where this takes
place and what exactly ethnicity this family might be because

(33:48):
it's not specified, but we think it might be Mexico
that it takes place, because I was saying that growing up,
I just assumed it was California. I don't know it's
because I'm from here, and I was like, oh, that
could be in San Diego or like a coastal part
like up north. Like it just never occurred to me
to think of where they were. But we were talking,

(34:09):
we were trying to figure out, like, oh, you brought
it up, or you're like, do you think they're in
a different country? And I was like, I never thought
about that, And then rewatching it, we found so many
context clues that it was like, Oh, they're definitely in
a different country. Like how in the beginning, Spy Mom
and Spy Dad say how they were from two different
countries and now they're in one. So we're going to

(34:30):
assume that maybe Spy Mom is from the United States
because she's got an American act because she's I think
either ambiguous or like she's supposed to be American. And
then like throughout the movie, all the text that we
see is in Spanish, and like and we've seen various
characters speaking speaking of Spanish, which and like the school,

(34:50):
there's like that scene in the school where you're like, well,
none of the kids are speaking Spanish, and like, I
can't really tell it could be like an easily in
American school. But there's a scene where he almost hits
he like breaks the car really hard on the lady
holding the stop signs yells in Spanish. But like I
think it was mostly the text on like the wart
remover bottle, the text was in Spanish. One of the billboards,

(35:13):
it was all in Spanish. All the stores were like
they go into that clothing store and it says like
neinos and babies, like it's all the Texas in Spanish.
And then when they're at the park as well, there's
everyone in the background is speaking in Spanish, so it's
a Spanish speaking country. We can assume we there's no
necessarily clear identifiers specifically what country it is. There was

(35:36):
also that clue when the wedding scene, you're saying, how
on the cake they have like the diodelus more at
those like skeletons, and I'm I might be wrong, but
I'm pretty sure that's like clearly Mexican of Mexican culture. Yeah,
I think so for that specific imagery, and Robert Rodriguez
is Mexican, so like you can kind of assume that.

(35:57):
And a lot of these movies take place in Mexican
trying to figure out where this movie was shot, and
I don't have much Do you say Santa Don't they
say Santa Cecilia or something, And that's a place in
Mexico we looked up, but like Antonia still and then
but I think that iurposefully trying to be vague, and
it's like, this is a Hispanic culture that we're like

(36:19):
trying to show and we're intentionally trying to be because
anton Brass is from Spain. But then like Danny Trejo
and Cheech Marin, who they're all Hispanic, the two of
them are in Mexican, so at least, at the very least,
it's an ethnically ambiguous family, a mixed family. We're not
sure exactly where Antonio Bander is supposed to be from

(36:41):
or what ethnic group he belongs to, but it's some
like Latin X or Hispanic. We can safely say that
it's like Hispanic. Yeah, and a huge movie like taking
place outside of America, um in a non English speaking
country is like a big deal. Yeah, for sure, Katherine,
you were saying that to be able to like see
yourself representati or feel as though you're represented, that's like

(37:04):
a huge thing because so many kids maybes you're just
like white kids, white kids, white kids, and like, as
a kid, you don't realize that that's what what's happening
until you grow up, and so to be able to
be like, yeah, Spike Kids, I saw myself and Spike
Kids like that's how I was with all those Disney movies.
It's like I could only be Pocahonest because she had
brown hair. I can only be Mulan because she had

(37:25):
black hair. So it's like, but you don't think about
that context as a child, You're just like, well, she
kind of looks like me. I guess that's who. That's
the princess that I have to pretend to be or whatever,
which is cool. Yeah, another point for Spike Kids love it.
I guess this kind of ties into Carmen. But um,

(37:45):
we were talking about this last night as well. Of
the way I really liked how the fighting works in
this movie, because this is like there's there's a lot
of action elements to this movie, some that got more
violent than I remembered. Terry how Watcher's head gets basically
burned off, but then later that her wig is just
kind of damnit, she's well, she becomes like the baldest

(38:07):
woman in charge because she's like mostly bald, but and
then she's got some like long straggly hairs, and she
doesn't seem to have more power once she is Balder's true.
But but one of the cool things is, like I
think we see very often in action movies, especially action
movies of this era, that women are only all had
to fight women and men are really all had to

(38:27):
fight man. And that is not a rule that applies
to this world. We see Ingrid fighting hand to hand
with guys. I don't remember. Do we see Antonio banderas
fighting women at any point? I don't, just because I
don't think so, but just because there aren't any other
like women spy. I think the only other adult is
Terry Hatcher woman. Yeah, that's true, I think, right, because

(38:51):
all of the like food like agents who got turned
into food leis, those were all yeah, those are all men,
and so I think it truly is just Grid and
Terry Hatcher's character. And then but then Carmen also uh
fights her brother, a multiple robo brother, and there I
don't know, like it's it is like kind of rare

(39:11):
to see just there seems to be parody in in
fighting in this movie too, Like it doesn't seem like
like you were saying, Katherine, like the I think the
only reason Antonio benders Uh doesn't end up fighting a
female spies because there's not enough female spies in the movie.
But I mean it, it is cool that it's not
like I feel like it's always like the guys are

(39:34):
fighting and this is the big part, and then we
cut too. Also there's some women fighting over here. It
would have been a very easy choice for when the
two evil doppelgangers show up for it would have been
an easy narrative choice for the girl to fight the
girl and the boy to fight the boy. I think
here's my best guest. I think that they probably didn't
do that because it would have been much easier to

(39:55):
shoot if the girl and the boy fight each other,
and then the girl and the boy fight each other.
It just probably would have been too hard to coordinate,
like parent trap style exactly, fighting like a kid fight
choreography would have been nearly impossible. But a catharsis like
you were saying, you always wanted to fight your sibling.
There's like a whole scene where they're in the Park

(40:17):
when they first meet the robot doppelgangers, and she's like,
I've always wanted to do this, and she like punches
him in the face, which is not saying that, like,
obviously that's not great, But there's like a sibling thing
in you where you're just like, man, sometimes we just
wanted to as a as a sibling. This movie appeals

(40:39):
to my worst instincts as an older specifically as an
older sister with younger brother. That was like the worst pairing.
But and and then the other thing that I think.
I think that in a lesser movie, Carmen, I think
she's supposed to be like maybe nine or time. Yeah,

(41:01):
because Junie, what is our best guest for these ages?
I think, yeah, I think Carmen's like maybe ten, June's
like seven. I feel like Carmen maybe like closer to
junior high almost she might even be like twelve thirteen.
And I feel like June is probably in like second grade.
Alexa yeah is like I would guess older, No, I

(41:24):
guess like fourth grade, fourth fifth grade. So Alexa Vega
was twelve when this movie came out, and Darryl Sabara
ak Mr. Megan Trainer was nine so yeah, that's about Yeah.
So I think that anyways, in a lesser movie, especially
if she is aged up to be eleven or twelve, um,
I feel like they would have like tossed in some

(41:46):
love interest for her too, because that's about the age
where you're like, oh, I mean, if we got a
female character, we gonna you know, we've got to be
a boy for her to um. But this movie also
opts out of that and just gives you five hundred
more scenes of Tomy Shaloub, which I'm fine with. Better
used of time. Sure, there's a nice little moment, and Catherine,

(42:08):
you pointed this out when we were watching it, But
as as they are taking the initiative, and it's mostly
I would say, Carmen, who's taking the initiative to train
themselves to be spies. Yeah, she picks up a spy
manual by unknown author, very funny. She's reading from it
and says, a good spy puts himself and then she
adds into the text herself in the mindset of the opponents.

(42:30):
So she's reading this patriarchal text that's excluding women all together,
and she's like, it's not just himself, it's herself too. Yeah,
she has to like self correct through the whole thing.
She's also the I mean she I like that. They
both have moments where they figure out what's going on. Um,
but I think Carmen does get a few more of
those moments because she's more motivated, less emotional than Juny

(42:56):
and just like generally more bad as because she's all
then he's nine, right, Okay, So I just thought of another.
So compare this movie to Jumanji, the first one where
Kirsen Dunnes is the older sister and then she's got
a younger brother and then all of the like emotional
weight and all that, like the kids figuring things out,

(43:17):
that's all given to the boy. So but it's like
Carmen figures out who Danny Trejo is through like context clues,
and then like Junie is the one that is like,
you're it's a tracking device, and then Carmen, you're right,
She's like blank, blank it is and she goes, I
hate that, and she just throws the tracking in the park.

(43:39):
I just I just love that. And then she saves
him several times. She has to save him when the
drops him and she dropped him, but then saves him
again that was a really scary shot. I don't know
how to describe the cinematography in this movie, but it
is insane. Love it so much. Shoutout to gear Ema Navarro,

(44:01):
who is a cinematographer in this movie. It's like there
are times that it's all live action, but it looks
like a cartoon sometimes, like when she drops Juni like
to his death, it looks like a cartoon, but it's
still like really intense and scary and oh it's just
so cool. Yeah, that's cinematographer. He's worked a lot with
Giarmlo do Toro and like does some really cool stuff.

(44:21):
Oh he did pants laber got kind of got uh,
we got to take another quick break, but come right back,
don't you worry. Also didn't know at the museum and
we're back. When eclectic, I'm sorry, I'm still thinking of it, cinematographer,
when an eclectic body of work. Um, here's a couple

(44:45):
of things that I didn't like as much or that
I found a little like. Okay, first one, whenever the
mom is retelling the story of spy mom and spy
dad meeting and Antonio panderis like they come to face
to face when they were like about to supposedly kill

(45:06):
each other. He reaches in to her top and pulls
out the photo of him to be like, oh, I
was your target. But it's like, okay, why are you
reaching into her clothes right near her boobs? Not okay
to show children anyone. I keep forgetting it just just

(45:30):
I don't think we've even said the character's name yet.
Antonio and Dari's name is supposed to be Gregorio, but
we've just been calling him Antonia spied daddy, spies Daddy.
There is a scene also where Ms. Gridenko, that's Terry
Hatcher's character. She comes into the safe house. She says
she's with the OSS, and then she and Carmen have

(45:53):
this sort of like bonding moment where Carmen gives her
the information she wanted and she's like, oh, you've just
in the league of like awesome women spies. You know.
It's like this like women got to stick together moment.
But then it turns out that she cannot be trusted.
She's working with the enemy, So this like what otherwise
could be like a nice like yeah, women do have

(46:14):
to stick together moment is completely nullified because she is
an evil, devious woman right, which again it's like and
there are I think that that issue more speaks to
the lack of female characters in the movie in general,
because they really have Carmen, Ingrid and Ms. Gradenko and
that's basically it. Because there there are a ton of
male characters and it's just like kids. There's like girls,

(46:37):
but they don't do anything. And there are like characters
similar to Ms. Gredenka, who are men, like Alexander Minion
who turns out to be this double agent. But there's
enough male characters that it's not your general impression, but
because you only have three one coming in and being
like girl power and then being like just kidding bit

(46:59):
like that doesn't maybe um and something there there are
a few things with Ingrid that, um, I felt like
her character like was I don't know, like in general
there there we we touched on this before, but there's
that moment um when Spy Daddy is wanting to take

(47:23):
on this this mission right to save my judge or whatever,
and um he's kind of been working on it behind
her back and then he's like, oh, I gotta go
save my judge, and you know, spy Mommy comes in
and and he's he's pretty dismissive of her, and he's like, no, no, no,
like you stay. She's like, I want to go with you,
Like I'm like raring to go on another adventure. She's

(47:46):
all about going and becoming a spy again. And he says, no,
you are mom. You stay at home. And then the
way she convinces him is she has to like seduce him,
which and then it works is that You're just like
that was pretty lazy writing. Yeah, I mean Gregorio, spy
Daddy is not a feminist icon. He just wants he

(48:09):
thinks women should stay home in the kitchen taking care
of the kids, and that is not okay spy Daddy.
But when they are working together, it's equal. But I
just that that scene, I was just like, man, come
on right, because like shortly after that, they've been captured
and they're tied up in like the Flupe house and
she uses her ring. She uses her ring to like

(48:31):
laser the ropes off of them, and like so she's
the one who kind of saves them and like releases them.
And then they immediately first of all, they go into
the reality room or whatever or the virtual I don't know,
some weird like augmented reality place like cloud room, and
then it is always revealed to be a green screen.

(48:55):
And then they end up in the Flue House dining
room where Mr Plup himself is eating this like green
sludge basically with a spoon very slowly, and he expects
them to eat it also land on the table onto

(49:19):
like a pile of gummy word. Yes, very weird. The
other thing with with Ingrid that this is like more
of a story thing versus like how she's treated. But
it is like, I mean, I can see I can
see this both ways. But you do get a lot
more information about um spy Daddy's background then you get
about her. And we find out about Danny Treho and

(49:42):
where I'm thrilled to find out about the Danny Treho secret, right,
But we find out like his family background and then
we also find out about his secret scientist background in
a room full of all male scientists. Um, and so,
like his character gets a couple of subplots, and we
don't really get that for Ingrid, um we get that

(50:05):
the way she relates to it is she's like, you
didn't tell me, Like she doesn't really have the upper
hand in their relationship and he is then made kind
of more important to the story because he was the
one who developed the third Brain. He's the one who
didn't destroy it, so like he's why they are the
target of Flope and later Minion, just making him more

(50:27):
integral to the story, whereas she's just essentially tagging along
because they're married and she's by So yeah, it would
have been nice like if we do learn more about
maybe his backstory in terms of like his family history
and connections and stuff like that, yeah, keep that, but

(50:48):
then make her the one who was developing the third
brain and like give her that integral component to the story.
Like it's it is like way imbalanced of what we
know about him versus what we know about her, which
is yeah, and it's a yeah, it's it's a bummer,
but it's like I wouldn't remove any of the spy

(51:09):
daddy backstory for the world. It's all great, but it's
it's like there she could have been included more meaningfully
in that story or or like you said, like if
she's involved in the Third Brain, then they kind of
have an equal subplot power and for sure, then then
we would have had a woman and stand which shit,
you know, important. You hate to see it. I wonder

(51:29):
if that imbalance is due to how famous either of
them were, because Jamie you brought up a good point
about like what level of fame was Antnio Benderis during
this movie? Was he like too famous to be doing
this or I'm just curious about like what level of
like they maybe put more on into an Binders because
he was like the recognizable face. But I don't, I

(51:51):
truly don't know. I can't I feel what anyone's fame
level was at that point, Like what did Alan coming
through at that point? What was Tony? Was Tony Shaloub monkey? Yet,
like there's no way to know, that's an actionable question.
I like, it is so hard to be Like when
was peque Antonio Benderis? I think it was like late nineties,
although who can say we've accidentally thought that Tom Hanks

(52:15):
wasn't famous before he was cast in Toy Stories, So
we don't know anything. We didn't. I think we were
just tired that day. But that and I had were
any of those This is the year before Monks, so
I think made him get There are people who are

(52:37):
I mean the George Clooney cameo. I think is treated
as if he is blatantly too famous to be And
did you also know Richard Linklater is in this movie?
For a second, Oh yeah, they're really good friends because
they're both from Texas. Wait what is he? Is he
like one of the bodyguards. He was credited as cool spy.
He's probably one of the guys that like attacks the
safe house or yeah, there is like a yeah, that's funny. Well,

(53:00):
I mean Riguez must be an awesome friend, because I
feel like everyone always like, yeah, like he he must
just be like a really cool, nice guy or I hope,
and it seems that way. I know very limited information
about Robert Rodriguez except that he made Spike. Um. I've
still quite of his movies. I've seen the like um
Desperado trilogy. I've seen since that. He is I think

(53:24):
still one of my favorite movies. I don't know, I
haven't seen in a while. But Mike, I'm sorry. I'm
just like looking at the credited character names to see
if there's any female characters that we we didn't talk about.
But there's so many male characters, but they all have
such silly names. Alexander Minion Donegan giggles, what I didn't
realize Mike Judge's character's last name is giggles Cheaches, Felix Gum,

(53:50):
Mr Liss cool spy agent Johnny, Like, who are these
who wrote this movie? It was Robert Rodriguez. Well to
what you were saying, Catherine about like, um, did the
like the level of the actor's fame play into like
how important their character was? I mean maybe, but also

(54:11):
like it just tends to be the default for especially
male writers, and just I mean, especially at this time
where the men were just given more important things to do,
we know more about their characters. That's just been the
default throughout all of history. So that's not great. Also,
I think Carla Giugino is she's only twenty nine in

(54:35):
this movie too. Yeah, she's only um so they really
pushed her into mom roles kind of early because saying
but yeah when this when this movie was released, she
was only twenty nine years old, no kidding, Yeah, And
Antonio Benders was like, okay, well that checks out standard
Hollywood age gap. Love it at it again. We we've

(54:56):
been talking about how there aren't that many female characters,
but we're forgetting about the female coated thumb thumb. I
was wearing a sexy nurse outfit. She has like very
fem fingernails and they're painted, and she has like a
very like the other thumb sums are like these like
oh fish shapes. And then but the female thumbthumb was

(55:20):
like a very like curvy, sexy shape. I want to
I guess in general, I would say the sumptumbs are genderless,
but then there was such a clear gender signifier of
lady finger finger, lady lady finger that I'm like, maybe
they are supposed to be male coated because they're unpainted

(55:43):
thumb thumbs. I choose to interpret them as genderless, but
I not me. I think that because of that clear
indication we've got, the male symptoms are allowed to be
like the soldiers, the spies, and then the the only
female thumbthumb we see is thrust into this like caregiver
nurse role so and like made to be sexy. There. Yes,

(56:10):
I agree. I think I'm just like going with my
own headcanon on this one. Even if Robert Rodriguez doesn't
understand that the thumb thumbs are doing their own things.
They're identifying as they choose. That's how I feel. I
just have a several very quick notes things I noticed
about the movie. Uh. One, Carmen in this movie looks

(56:35):
exactly like how Joseph Gordon Levitt looked in Third Rock
from the Sun. They should have cast him as her
evil doctor Ganger. The sound effects in this movie are wild. Okay.
The music. There is a song that Flope sings toward

(56:58):
the middle of the movie, and You're like, did this
get cut from Nightmare before Christmas? Like it is such
a like Danny Alfman, Tim burtony And then big reveal
it is Danny And then we learned that Danny Elfman
did write some of the music for this movie. Man.
And then I was like, now I'm gonna like question
what I'm thinking about when I say this seems like

(57:20):
a Tim Burton movie, Like maybe it just sounds like
a Danny Elfman movie. And I'm not giving Mr elf
his his Someone was saying, I'm just on such a
Will Palter kick that if someone makes a movie about
Oingo Boingo that Will Palter should play Danny Elfman. I'm
just putting that out into the world to all of

(57:41):
our listeners who are developing the ongo Bo movie, which
is all of them, all of them yeah, incredible. Uh.
Speaking of a sound effect, my favorite sound effect in
the entire movie is Flop's cape. You hear it does?
It sounds distinct sound and he does it so drastically.
He like every time he gets up, he like sweeps

(58:03):
it back and it's the loudest sound of I love
his care I love him so much. I think Comic
is my favorite actor of all time. He's terrific. He's
my offer Molina. This is like I also think, no
disrespect to Shalou that Alfred really couldn't knocked that part um,

(58:24):
but you know he was busy being in Chuck a lot. Also,
Floop is trying to figure out what's missing from his
children's show because it's it's rated number two and he
wants to be number one. And he keeps pondering this,
and I think the answer is probably a few women
in your writer's room, buddy, I'm guessing you don't have any.

(58:45):
That's what's missing from your show, Mr Floop. And we
did touch on this briefly before, but I really I
thought it was so I kind of forgot this. I
remember the vision how that scene with Floop and Junie
looks visually because its blazoned onto my brain forever. But
the fact that like a young boy expressing his feelings

(59:07):
and trying to empathize with an adult and the adult
being responsive to that, like solves a major plot thing.
You're just like, oh wow, we're like because I feel
like we were sort of saying like that is normally
would be like the girl's role is to use the
power of feelings, and if that had happened with Carmen,

(59:28):
I would have been like rolling my eyes at it.
But because it's Juny and he is kind of like
even towards the beginning, Spy Daddy is kind of like
Juny or too soft, stop drawing, stop watching Alan coming
on TV. And and Johnny is like, I like it,
and then like later, I mean, he proves himself that,
like empathy is a good thing to have, And you know,

(59:52):
Spy Daddy, he's he's got to untangle some of his
you know, toxic masculinity and he can learn from his son.
Hopefully he does that. In Spy Kids two through four,
or whichever one season is, Antonio Antonio Vendors, isn't two
write I don't remember. Aristotle confirms, yes, kids, But is

(01:00:12):
he in three? I don't think I know Junasm he
is in three. Everyone's in three when it goes crazy
phase two of Kids. One of my favorite parts in
the movie is when they go to the safe house

(01:00:32):
and Carmen finds the drawer of like the stash of
emergency cash, and then she's like, wow, emergency cash from
every country and there are tens of cash, and it's like, yes,
all ten countries in the world. I did look very
hard and studied the flags and figured out that the
country's represented are Canada, Germany, Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, the UK,

(01:00:58):
the US, South Korea, It'll and Argentina. Fredriguez just pick
his top ten. He's like, these are my favorite travel destination. Um.
Just getting into the trilogy a little bit. I'm just
looking at the list of names. So I guess in
three and I have no recollection besides video game of
what happens in three, But apparently we meet Mike Judges,

(01:01:19):
Donnegan Giggles his whole family, and Emily Osmond plays his
daughter Gertie Giggles, Um Matt O'Leary, and Salmahaiak plays his
wife Francesca Giggles and the third which I'm like a
weirder couple than Mike Judge and Salmahaak. I cannot think

(01:01:39):
of in my brain, Like what did they talk about?
I don't know. Wait, okay, but isn't Shark Boy and
Lava Girl like a spinoff of something has to do
with spy kids. I feel like it's stylistically. Isn't the
girl like the two characters in the game for the
third one? And then there's a spin off right and

(01:02:04):
lounge regularly? Well, why did docs Taylor Lottner? I saw
him there twice two years ago, and now I just
say he lives there and he works there. Oh. I
had one last thing. The Terry Hatcher's scene when they
when she comes into the safe house makes no sense.
Here's why. So she finds out that the third Brain

(01:02:27):
exists only after Carmen tells her this. Up to that point,
all the bad guys think that the third Brain had
been destroyed. Whenever we see the flashback of Antonio Bender
is crushing a walnut instead of the Third brain. So
Carmen's like, no, the third Brain lives, and then Terry

(01:02:48):
Hatcher says, oh, well, it must be here then, because
it wasn't at the Corte's house. Why were they searching
for something that they think was destroyed? Huh? I should
be a spa when you should be the spy when
you think about it. Anyway, Does anyone have any other

(01:03:09):
thoughts about the film? I am just impressed of a
lot of the comedic physical gags in this movie for
being an insane movie. There's a lot like geared towards kids,
but I feel like a lot of the like weird
comedic writing things, and a lot of the jokes are
like for adults or like kids won't understand. Almost I

(01:03:30):
don't know. It was just like a good example of
like gags I was saying in the film, like visual gags,
and I was like, oh, I didn't know that you
could do this and move like the George Clooney like
off the eye thing and then puts it back on.
I don't know, I really, I was just so impressed

(01:03:52):
with a lot of those silly, I mean things. I'm like,
really am Robert Rodriguez for making something so like extremely
still like that just feels like using all the cloud
he built up to this point because this was his
uh seventh movie. Post from Dusk Till Dawn like he
was a well established director at this point and just

(01:04:13):
like went for it. We don't make a movie spy
kid like kids movie, body horror spy kids movie. I
just I'm like, man, that is that is a responsible
use of power. I really like that's the cool because
it's so different from most of his other work, which
is like pretty like I mean, some of it's pretty
like can't be violence, but like he's like Tarantino and

(01:04:38):
that like a lot of his movies are just like this,
like wild chopping of heads and blood squirting everywhere and
just like crazy violence. And then he made Spy Kids,
and incidentally, Spy Kids three D Game Over, which he
did direct, comes out the same year as Once upon
a Time in Mexico, so it contains most working Man,

(01:05:00):
a movie where Johnny Depp's eyes get gouged out and
kiss came over. Yes, but I mean, I just think
it's like really cool and like, even though these aren't
the movies he's like primarily remembered for by most people
except for the Three of Us. Um, it's like he
developed like this really distinct visual style for kids movies

(01:05:22):
that no one else has ever done. It's just it's
so cool, and he directed all four Spy Kids movies
and Shark Boy and Love a Girl Commitment and the
whole Machete and I Mean, and also the spinoff by
kids called I Just I don't know this rewatching this, Uh,
I was like, just increased my rabbit Riguez Rodriguez respect

(01:05:47):
by even more than I already need it. He's pretty dope,
He's cool. Does this movie pass the bacteal test or
the spy test? It does both passes both of them.
I had it passing at least twice. There's the opening
scene with Carmen and Ingrid, and there's a moment where

(01:06:08):
Junie is off covering his warts and they have a
brief conversation about like, are they going to better than
not going to bed? Did you brush your teeth already?
I did? Yeah? Everything okay? At school? It's fine. And
then this is kind of a duplicitous pass, but it
does pass between Carmen and Miss h Griddenko as well,
even though they're talking about girl power, but the subtext

(01:06:29):
is girl power is fake. Um so, but it does past.
Does it pass again at all? I forgot to pay
his close attention as I should. Toward the end, whenever
the kids reunite with the parents. I don't think. I
don't think so because Carmen does. I feel like Carmen
does most of the talking, but she's talking to George

(01:06:51):
like she's talking to the TV. And what about in
the flu Palace, does it? I couldn't. I think. I
think it's a lot of Antonio Benderis talking. It's mostly
I think the main thing is that there's just not enough.
There's like there's three female characters in the entire movie,
and it's like completely outweighed. I think in little parts
it passes like pretty easily with with the interactions. But

(01:07:14):
I think it's mostly like when they're as a family,
it's Antonio Benderius kind of leading the charge of like
we're a family, we're going to do this, as opposed
to Ingrid Andre. Unless I'm missing up, I'm missing a
scene or something that I mean, given the fact that
we only have three female characters that have any significance,
all of them do have conversations with each other at

(01:07:36):
very least there's a sort of pass between Gridenka and
Ingrid that you could I mean, it's when they're like
when she's like on the TV or something, yeah, when
she's on the TV in the car. But the subtext
of learning with yeah yeah, so the subtext doesn't work
on paper, technically works. Yes, we've you know, the Bechdel
test is a flawed metric, and arguing about it is

(01:07:57):
basically pointless. Yeah. No, I mean, at very least the
female characters we are given, we know who they are,
they care about each other, and it's not always about
the majority men in the movie. Yes, let's read the
movie on our nipple scale, shall we. It's zero to

(01:08:19):
five nipples based on its representation of women. I'm gonna
give this. I suppose I would give it like a
three because it is handling the way women and girls
are represented in media better than a lot of media
targeted towards children, at least of the films we've covered

(01:08:42):
so far. You know, there's there's parody among the genders
that we see, but the fact that there are far
more men than there are female characters. The fact that
Antonio Benderis hates women and just want them to be
mummies is to at home. But no, I mean, I

(01:09:02):
think it does a lot of good things and um,
especially the fact that it's like representation of Latin xt
mixed family like that on screen, being the driving force
of the narrative. Yeah, I love Alan Cumming and all
of my nipples go to him. I'm gonna go this

(01:09:25):
is and I'm probably overshooting it a little bit, but
I'm going to get three and a half. I I
love Carmen Um and I love hearing your connection to
her Catherine, which it was, I mean, something that didn't
because I was, you know, as a little white girl
and had truly an embarrassment of riches of problematic characters

(01:09:45):
to latch on to Um. But the fact that I mean,
it's like Carmen is a really cool character. She's not
a problematic character. She's like a really cool and also
realistic like example for a girl that age, Like she
kicks her brother's ass, but she loves him, and like
she's good at stuff and she's observant, and like that

(01:10:07):
character alone is just like I don't know, like it
feels like a miracle that that character avoids so many
of the pitfalls that preteen girl character written by a
man would normally fall to, because it's usually that like precocious,
like genius child trope, like the wise beyond her years

(01:10:28):
child or sexualized too early or any number of horrible things,
but she's truly treated just like a character and has flaws.
She still wets the bed sometimes, like there it's I
don't know, I just I really love how the spy
kids are written in this movie. And I think that
like JUNI is a really, um, really cool example of

(01:10:52):
like not a hyper masculine little boy and having that
be part of like what makes him cool and like
part of like what makes him good at being a spy.
So I think it's great. Yeah, and uh, I just
just a fun fact I'd like to throw into the ring.
Robert Rodriguez walked Alexe Vega down the aisle. Oh my,

(01:11:15):
he has to be so nice, right, like he seems
like great? Well, we did ask, I did post the
question was Alan coming at the Megan Trainer at wedding?
I guess the real question is was Robert Rodriguez and
Alan coming? Uh? Did officiate? Like? What did they do?
What was their role? I hope that being Juny and

(01:11:37):
being an empathetic young male character is what taught Darryl
Samara that it's okay to be Mr. Megan Trainer. Um.
And also just something that I kept meeting to bring
up last night, and then I think I either got
embarrassed or tired and kept forgetting to say. Is Alexe
Vega who now goes by Alexa Penia Vega because she
um she and her husband combined their last names, which

(01:12:00):
is the whole thing. But she has found a very
successful second life in Hallmark movies. She's been in six
in a row, so yeah, she's coming for all of
the full House ladies anyways, And I do have a
few issues with the way that Ingrid's character is presented.

(01:12:22):
I just mainly wish we knew more about her and
that there were more female characters. But Carmen, I don't know.
Carmen is such a victory, uh, for for all and
so is JUNI So three and a half for me,
Gonna give all of them to Chaloub alright, yeah, wonderful
for all of his heads. He's going to need for

(01:12:43):
each of his Yeah, how about Catherine. I think I'm
going to give it a four out of five only
because I'm just jumping off of Jamie's point of Carmen
being such a victory and it's like the movie set out.
I think what it wanted to do was show these
kids in like a really cool way, and I think
it successfully did that because in my head, the movie

(01:13:06):
is more about the two kids learning about themselves rather
than the parents. Um, and I think it successfully did that.
And I think, like what you're saying was that, like,
Carmen is well developed and she's to me like the lead.
Like I think her and Junior equally the stars of
the movie. But I feel like watching her kind of

(01:13:26):
bumped it up, being like, no, she's cool, I want
to be like her, like she's a she's a spy,
but she's also like weird and like she can be
made fun of and it's fine. I think that's why
I pushed it up a little bit. But um, I agree.
I think there's not enough female characters and the other
two adults just weren't developed enough, and I think they
could have been easily. But I think it. I think

(01:13:48):
it does more good than it does harm. So I'll
give it. I'll give it that, And as a movie
in general, ten a ten, wherever so many good things.
We also forgot to mention that we learned that Carmen
skips school to go off to Belize sometimes she somehow

(01:14:10):
she manages to go from wherever they live again, never clear,
but wherever they live to believe to just just hang
out twice a month. Was it twice a month or something? Yeah,
she was like she skips school twice a month. Um,
I'll give one nipple to that scene where Junie has
the what is it the handcuff, the little safe handcuff

(01:14:34):
to his hand and he wants to get it off,
and he smacks it on the rock or the wall
and it bounces back. It is the funniest sits him
in the head. It's the funniest thing in that movie. Um,
and I will give the rest of that rating to
the entire Safe House. That the best thing the little
like packets that turn into a Those they're clearly pop tarts, right,

(01:14:59):
They're clearly pop tart packaging. It's a perfect product. That
McDonald's thing. You're just like, it's like the really wanted
a big mac. I know, but I've got sludge so
I can't eat why. I'm pretty sure you have the
green also maybe stolen from Night Before Christmas. I was
like that scene where Sally is eating the green soup. Yes,

(01:15:20):
I don't know, there's some weird crossover that I think
we're missaying. Well anyway, Katherine, thanks for coming on the pause.
I'm so excited I finally convinced you to watch it
after years. It's so fun to watch. Everyone should watch
this movie in a group too. It's so much fun
to watch in the group. It's wild. Yeah, so yeah,
thanks for being here. What would you like to plug? Oh?

(01:15:40):
I don't know where can people follow you online? Um? Twitter?
I guess that hellhole? Um, it's just my name at
Katherine Leon. They do a UCB show every Friday's at
eleven called JB Throwback Friday. Um. Rod Stewart Live is
every Wednesday in Highland Park. Stand up show Atlantics use
a sketch at UCB every second Thursday at UCB Franklin,

(01:16:04):
eight pm. Um. I think that's it all right. Well,
if you live in l A or if you're visiting,
come to those she runs this town. I'm probably there.
You can follow us on social media at Bactelcast. We've
got a Patreon a k a Matreon that you can

(01:16:26):
give money from any of the following countries South Korea, Argentina,
they're only ten country UK there's only ten of them.
If you don't live in one of those countries. I'm sorry,
but you don't have money. Also, don't like the like.
They listed countries that I think share a currency. Hang on,

(01:16:48):
let me, it's like Guatemala and Columbia, right, yes, do
they all? I don't know which countries use with like,
but like Germany and Italy are on the Euro. But
also I did some extra search and I think in
two thousand one, Italy was using another type of currency
in addition to like, they hadn't fully adopted the Euro yet.

(01:17:11):
I don't know anyway, if anyone can send us fun
fact about Robert Rodriguez to prove that he's a nice man, please, yeah, please,
any'll like, let's turn this into like chan and just
just a million nice Robert Rodriguez. I mean the fact
that he wanted down the aisle. You're just like, it's
so nice, okay? Uh well Patreon, Yeah, Matreon, it's five

(01:17:38):
dollars a month, gets you to bonus episodes every month,
plus our entire back catalog of bonus episodes. We've got
merch for sale. Uh. Feminist icon, queer icon, feminis icon,
feminism is the law. Now a whole slew of option.

(01:18:00):
I'll make a spy daddy, spy mommy, design the store
fun or just spy parent for parent would be such
a confusing share. Can I request a commission of Floop
and Minion but wearing like the spy gear that like
Carmen and Junie were at some point? Yes, well okay,

(01:18:23):
and then do you want Minion Minion with glasses or
there's so many options? Better design them all anyway? Um? Yeah?
By our merchant t public dot com slash dpectel Cast.
You can visit our website for for various things. Spectel
cast dot com has episodes, has a link to our

(01:18:45):
merched store, has upcoming live shows, so check those out.
And no no none, no no no no no no
no no no no no goodbye by