The Farewell with Atsuko Okatsuka

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Atsuko Okatsuka discuss The Farewell.

(This episode contains spoilers)

For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.

Follow @AtsukoComedy on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP

Here's the Variety article that discusses "Why The Farewell flopped in China" - https://variety.com/2020/film/news/why-farewell-flopped-in-china-awkwafina-tzi-ma-maoyan-1203471209/

Here are two articles about Awkwafina's tendency to appropriate Black aesthetics: 

"On Awkwafina, appropriation, and Asian American identity" - https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2020/01/on-awkwafina-appropriation-and-asian-american-identity-golden-globes

and

"Who Really Owns the Blaccent?" - https://www.vulture.com/2018/08/awkwafina-blaccent-cultural-appropriation.html

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have wenen and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef
invest start changing it with the Beck del cast. Hey, Jamie, Hey, Caitlin,
everything is absolutely fine with your health right now? Oh okay,

(00:25):
just just so you know, cool? Okay, Well that's not
suspicious at all. It's so and it's so interesting you
say that because I funny story. I used to tell
people that their health was fine and it it wasn't.
It literally wasn't really, But when you tell it to me,
I'm like, okay, makes sense. Yeah, I think I think
you should just believe me because I'm definitely telling the truth. Okay, yeah,

(00:48):
do you want to go to lunch? Yeah, let's go
to lunch. Okay, awesome, perfect Intra ten out of ten, amazing.
Welcome to the Beach. Del asked, I'm Jamie Loftus, I'm
Caitlin Durante, and this is our show where we examine
movies through an intersectional feminist lens. We promised that intro

(01:11):
is relevant to today's discussion, but if it weren't, that
would be really funny that I just opened every episode
just being like, Jamie, you're in good health, right, And
I was like, sorry, everyone, Caitlin is my doctor. She's
my pediatrician. I still go to my pediatrician and it's Caitlin.

(01:31):
How long did you go to your pediatrician? Um, my
pediatrician was also an adult doctor, Mark, So I did
go to That's just what they told to you. True.
I did go to the same doctor for the first
eighteen years of my life. I went to the pediatrician
until I was twenty two, and he was like, you

(01:53):
need to get out of here, like they gave you
a heart out there, like you, ma'am, you could have
a child at this point and you need to leave.
I would never do that for you, Jamie. Thank you
so much. I want to be thirty and still at
my pediatric SIP, but some things just cannot be. Yeah, well, anyway,

(02:16):
so what is this podcast? What's happening? We use the
Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate
a larger conversation about representation in film. The Bechtel Test
being a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,
sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, and there are many

(02:39):
variations on the test. The one that we are using
these days requires that two named characters of any marginalized
gender speak to each other, and the conversation has to
be about something besides a man, and ideally it is

(02:59):
a meaningful plot, relevant narrative, really relevant conversation and not
just like here's your soup, okay, thanks, unless the soup
is unless it's like, unless the soup is poisoned, in
which case that is relevant. That is very important. Yeah, right, exactly,

(03:19):
so you know, there's there's their shades of gray. It's all.
It's all about the context and the subtext, you know,
the soup text. Um amazing, we have. We have an
incredible movie today. Popular request has been since the movie
was released. And equally, if not even more incredible guest

(03:43):
that I think, I think let's go. You're in like that,
we should like send you a jacket. At this point,
I think that you've entered jacket territory of how often
you've been on the show. I want to send all
of our frequent guests jackets. Oh yes, and yeah, as
goes three time return this is third time returning guest jacket, tier,

(04:05):
I would love that. Do you have jackets? We don't,
but we'll make some. I want one of those, yeah,
like like one of those, like like football jackets. Are
you cold, babe? And then you're like, but I want
one of those jackets, I mean like a letter a
letterman jacket, football jacket. Well, for you all, I am cold, babe.

(04:30):
Put me on the waiting list for when you do
make them. Oh my god, we sure will. So this,
of course, is comedian creator of Ohio and Let's Go,
Out's Go. You know her from our episodes on Shrek
and Austin Powers, so lots of Mike Myers. It's Okotska.

(04:52):
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for
making me not do a Mike Myers again. Yeah, we
we should say. I read at the top that, uh,
Let's Go is not asking to do Mike Meyers susies
this all time. Thank you, thank you so much. But
it's just like been throughout the years, you know, so
I'm just afraid, like it's too late, Jamie. I just

(05:14):
feel like, you know, because I feel like I did
Shrek with you all like years ago, and then I
come back years later and I'm you know, people are like,
oh god, Austin Powers, and then you know what I'm saying,
Like for years now, I think it's it's part of
your brand. Unfortunately you love Mike Myers. Yeah, basically what

(05:34):
happened is a while back, we wanted to do an
episode on Shrek, and we reached out to you and
we just kind of like floated it. Were like, whatever
movie you want to cover, but also we do want
to cover Shrek if that's a funny interest to you,
and you were like, sure, let's do Shrek. We also
years later wanted to do an Austin Powers episode and

(05:56):
then we were like, let's go. Wouldn't it be so
funny if you came back? But now we've tarnished your brand.
And you know what's weird is you came to me
this time and you gave me a break. Right. It's
like I just started getting good at saying no, like
like this year, and so it sucks. I couldn't like

(06:17):
practice that even for this I was ready for you
all to ask me again, you know, whichever it was
Shrek three year or whatever, you know, and I was
ready to say no this time. But then you'll switched
it on me, we did. Uh. So today's movie is
The Farewell, which is not even remotely a Mike Myers movie,

(06:37):
not even close. So let's go, what's your relationship with
The Farewell besides creating it, besides directing it? Um No.
I actually avoided watching this movie for a long time
because I'm super close with my grandma, and so I

(07:01):
was like, so scared, and I didn't I hadn't heard
the this American life story of the film, right, and
so I was like, I don't know if my heart
can take this movie just from even like that trailer,
and I was like, oh, Grandma gonna die. I don't
know if I could deal with that. And I was
telling people this too, like I'm scared to watch it.

(07:22):
Folks who have seen it. None of them told me, wait,
this is going too far. And I know this podcast
is full of spoilers, but I don't know if I
want to say it already spoiler alert everyone. Yeah, people
know that they're going to get spoilers, so yeah, I
feel free to spoil away. No one told me for years.
So I watched it like two years after it had

(07:43):
been released. I was like, fuck it, I'm just gonna
do it. You know. Um, and I was I was like, wait,
no one told me that she doesn't die, right, And
I was I was telling people that's my fear. And
they were like, uh huh huh, yeah, sure we get it,
uh huh. And I was like, what are you trying
to do protect me from spoilers? I'm telling you, like,

(08:04):
you know what I'm saying, you could have helped me.
That's so it's like they're making a choice between spoilers
and your emotional well being. That's what I'm saying, Jamie.
It's messed up. So many people do this with spoilers, right,
Like there's a special place and help for people who
spoil movies and TV shows, right. I learned the hard

(08:25):
way because I tweeted about this. I said, y'all didn't
tell me Grandma never dies, you know. And some people
thanked me because they were like, you know what, this
is why I haven't been watching this movie. Now I
can go watch it and protect my heart and you know,
not feel like left out from the cinematic experience, you know.
But most of the people were like, fuck you, why

(08:45):
just spoil it. I'm like, it's been two years, okay, right,
you had time Also, I don't know. I think if
I guess, I did not know that she lives at
the end going into the movie, But I don't know
that would have like changed my experience of the movie
that much. I think I would have just felt a
little calmer going in. Yeah, right, and that's okay, I mean,

(09:10):
I'm up type of I really don't mind spoilers because
like I feel everything too much and I'll like think
about it for for a long time, sometimes months, and
so um, yeah, I like going into a thing calmer. Yes,
give it to me. And it's not even like an
enormous twist where like, you know, it's like I would

(09:33):
have never seen that coming. It's like either she did
die or she didn't, and it's like those are the
two options. And like a twist would have been if
Aquafina was dead the whole time, that would have been
a twist it or like if nine I was just

(09:54):
a projection of Aquafina's subconscious that's a twist that she
never even existed or something. I would be so pissed
at both of those scenarios. Yeah, farewell, who's saying farewell
me from this movie? Wherever? Okay, but yeah, that's I

(10:16):
got to the movie way too late, and I had
no one to talk about it is my relationship with
a farewell, you know. By then everyone was like over it,
well not us, not now we're here currently talking under it. Yes, yeah,
thank you, thank you so much, just just in time
for may you know. Yeah, Jamie, what about your relationship? Uh? Yeah.

(10:44):
I did not see this movie when it came out
because I was away the end. I went to brag,
I went to Edinburgh Fringe the summer this movie came out,
and so I just wasn't in the US when it
was in theaters, so I didn't see it at the time.
And then my my grandma died shortly after that, and

(11:05):
then I was like, I don't think I want to
see a movie where the grandma dies for a little bit.
So again it's like, yeah, if if you if I
knew she lived at the beginning, I probably I also
am not super bothered by spoilers, so I'm like, I
probably would have watched it like a year ago if
if I had known that, like you fall in love
with nine I and then she's okay, and it's great,

(11:27):
But yeah, I just watched it to prepare for this
um for this episode, and I really really liked it.
I thought, I think it's like such a good movie,
and the performances in this movie are so incredible, and yeah,
I'm excited to talk about it. Same. I did see
it in theaters when it came out summer of twenty nineteen,

(11:49):
because it was it was getting some buzz and everyone's like,
it's really good. So I used my AMC stubs membership
incredible plug. Yeah, yeah, I saw it in theaters and
really enjoyed it, and I was very endeared by the

(12:12):
story and the character's relationships. So yeah, should we you know,
I'm starting to see why we went with why you
all went with Mike Myers, Like when you got when
you do enjoy something, it's it's just nice, you know.
And it's like, well, um, let's just do the Bechdel
test now and we're done with the episode, and everyone's like, well,

(12:33):
it was really nice, the performances nice, and we enjoyed it. Okay,
well not nothing problematic, right, Like, Honestly, my notes for
this are very sparse because I'm just like, I really
liked it and it's good. At the end. I have
multiple smiley faces in my notes. I'm like, I, yeah,
we definitely thrive in the all cap zone of like,

(12:55):
what the fucker's there? I know. I'm like, oh, yeah,
you know what. Yeah, I take it back. Yeah, let's
pivot right now. We're gonna do Shrek forever after No,
there's gotta be stuff. There's stuff, Okay, all right, we'll
find that. Sorry for interrupting, not not at all. Should

(13:18):
we just get into the recap and go from there? Yeah,
that's good. So this is a true story based on
quote an actual lie. So it's like autobiographical of writer
director Lulu Wang's life in relationship with her grandmother. Um

(13:39):
So we meet Billy played by Aquafina. She lives in
New York City. Ever heard of it? Yes, you have it.
I did kind of jump where there's like scenes of
Aquafina walking through New York, obviously not wearing a mask,
and I'm like, I need to like deprogram myself because

(13:59):
I was like, but wait, it's actually it's actually fine
and she's fine. Yeah. It's also where she's like you
know that, like, um, that demeanor Aquafina is known for.
I feel like she got to do that just when
she was in New York A little bit. Yeah, this
is just a performance wise, you know where she's like,
hey girl, hey, I feel like that she did that

(14:20):
to a friend she recognized in the streets of New
York busy New York, right, and then I feel like
she had to shift performances for you know later on. Um,
but so that was that was interesting. Yeah, but yes,
new York City. UM, me too, me too. I've heard
of it. Well, we've all heard of it. Amazing. Aquafinas

(14:43):
performances is so great and this movie and it also
it's always like the performance that's like a comedian that's
like I'm serious now, Like it's like that performance for her.
I feel like there comes a day and every like
big famous comedian life where they're like, but guess what
I've got range And you're like, all right, yeah, yeah,

(15:06):
are you talking about Adam Sandler Sandler moment because her
uncut gems? Oh my gosh, that movie. I was actually
thinking this is probably even more embarrassing. I was thinking
about Robin Williams a Goodwill hunting got it. Yeah, it's

(15:29):
a trend. It's a trend. Um. So Billy is talking
on the phone with her Grandma nine I played by
I'm going to do my best with pronunciations. Umjoo schus
in uh. Nine I lives in China, And then we
established that they tell little white lies to each other

(15:52):
pretty frequently, including when nine I tells Billy that she's
at her sister's house when she's really at a hospital
getting a CT scan, and then nine i sister speaks
to the doctor. Then her sister tells NINEIGHT that she's

(16:13):
in good health. Then we meet Billy's mom and dad,
lu Jane and high End. They reveal to Billy that
her nine I is actually dying of stage four lung cancer.
She's high End's mother, yes yes, yea um, and that

(16:33):
she has no more than three months to live. But
nine I doesn't know that she's dying, and the family
thinks it's better to not tell her because it's a
common cultural practice in China to not tell an elderly
family member that they are dying, although Billy thinks it's
wrong to not tell her um. So, Billy's family is

(16:56):
heading to China the following day for Billy's cousins wedding,
which is just an excuse so that everyone can go
and see nine I before she dies. They also tell her.
They tell Billy not to come. They're like, you, you
have a terrible poker face and you're not invited. But

(17:17):
then Billy goes anyway, like I think, Like a few
days after her family has arrived and she gets there
and her grandma is like, you look really sad. What's wrong?
And she has to pretend like everything is fine, And
her family keeps telling Billy like, do not tell grandma,

(17:38):
and she keeps being like, well, what if nine I
has things she wants to take care of before she dies.
Then after a big family dinner, nine I is coughing
a lot and she ends up going to the hospital,
so the entire family rushes there. She gets some X
rays and the doctor confirms the most families in China

(18:02):
would choose not to tell their grandma that they are dying,
which Billy challenges and says, again, isn't it wrong to lie?
Won't she be upset when she eventually does find out
she's dying, and the family is like, no, because nine
I did the same thing. She lied to her dying

(18:22):
husband and didn't help tell him until the very end
of his life. Um. And then the family goes and
visits Billy's grandfather's grave, and then her uncle high Band
tells Billy that they're withholding this information because they are
bearing the emotional burden for nine I because the East

(18:48):
just has a greater focus on community and like a
person being part of a larger hole, while the West,
which is what Billy is used to as an American,
is more about individualism and like the self and taking
care of one's self. Then it's time for the big
wedding banquet, where different members of the family start like

(19:13):
breaking down and crying and saying kind of like a
veiled goodbye to nine. I. I mean veiled is questionable too.
I mean, when the uncle gives this speech, this is
like and of course this wedding is dedicated to my
mom for some reason, You're like yeah, and the groom's crying,

(19:35):
and I mean the more you the more you summize.
I'm like the grandma new Okay, Grandma new right, as
you're not. Now everyone's falling apart around her, right, And
it's like we get every hand that she's like really
observant and calls people out of their bullshit constantly. So
it's like she she knew yeah, and she lied too.

(19:56):
To her husband, so like, how would she not the
And she's Chinese and lives in China, so she knows
this is what people do, right, There's no way she
didn't know anyway. She's also gone to the hospital several
times with but are clearly health problems. Yeah, but it's
just like a tiny cold every time, or allergies, you know,
but we all say that here, right, like that's nothing.

(20:18):
That's something like I never hear, like my family say
are Like when I was in Asia, allergies is definitely
a thing here that people are like, oh, it's just allergies.
And I'm like, no, you clearly have I think it's
emphysyma and they're like no, it's like it sounds really bad.
And everyone always says it's allergies. Yeah, classic deflection, right

(20:39):
right right, and I'm pretty sure you have COVID. They're like, no, no,
it's just safe fever. Yeah. It's that season. It's it's
like astrology. It's like Gemini season. Happy Gemini season, everybody. Wow. Um.
So Billy is holding it together as best she can,

(20:59):
and then nine eyes X ray results come back, so
Billy has to rush to the hospital to grab them
and then the family has to like alter them so
that they say that nine I is indeed in good health.
And then it's time for Billy to leave China and
say goodbye to nine I, and then she goes back

(21:20):
to New York. But also nine I gives her a
bunch of money before she ves, and that was the
moment where I'm like, she knows, she knows, She just knows.
She's just making sure to not say it out loud
because maybe if you don't. Yeah, right, She's like, it

(21:40):
might seem like I'm settling my affairs right now. But no,
it's just because I gave your cousin a wedding present,
so I figured i'd give you some money too. It's
only fair. I didn't think about the money part. In fact,
I forgot about it. See this is why I love
the summary. You know every time you'll do it. The

(22:01):
money part. I was like back and forth the whole
movie and like she has to know, right, she has
to know. And then when the money part happened, as
like she knows, she knows. Hard to side um. But
then the movie ends with a video of writer director
Lulu Wang's real life nine I, and then there's like
a text that says, six years after her diagnosis, nine

(22:24):
I is still with us, so she did not die.
She lived, And they were like, who truly that last
slide saying that the real life nine I is okay
was such a relief. I truly just exhaled. I'm like, Wow,

(22:46):
now I can sleep tonight. Amazing. No, well, I didn't
sleep because then I was like, well, okay, so I'm
watching this two years after those those those titles were written.
You know what I'm saying, Why I don't know she's
still alive? Also, you know this whole movie came out, Okay,
lu lu Wang was at the Golden Globes, right, I'm like, okay,

(23:09):
they're still keeping this a secret. You know what I'm saying.
I mean China, Sure, she lives in China, but it's
like they have the internet, you know. So I was curious.
I went deep diving. What did you find out? I
think the Grandma's still alive, but then she kind of
has an inkling now or something because of Lulu Wang's
Golden Globe? Did Lulu Wang win? Aquafina wanted something anyway somehow,

(23:34):
like she read an article or something like there's a
whole ass movie about her, Yeah, like a really famous movie.
I read that she found out because of her sister
told because they shot the movie like a block away
from real life Lulu wangs like her neighbor, like a

(23:56):
block away from where she lives, so she found out
while they were filmed. But actually that's what I read.
But then I heard lu lu Wang talk in interviews
about the movie, and she also made it seem like
she still doesn't know. Maybe she just knew that Lu
lu Wang made a movie that was about her, but

(24:17):
not the details or something. Yeah, a block away. I'm like,
all these people are trying to get caught. Okay, these
people are trying to They just want to tell each other.
And that's what happens when you keep a secret, that's,
you know, a big lie like this. It's like I
think you want to tell them and you feel guilty.

(24:38):
So you're like, I'm going to just shoot the film
a block away from grandma's, you know, and she goes
on a walk. She goes on a walk when she
goes WK. Yeah, and as the grandma, I'm going to
give her the money, you know. Um as if I
don't know that I am indeed, you know, have what
what was it stage for lung cancer? Mm hmmm. I

(25:02):
feel for these people, you know, just the leaps and
bounds and all kinds of things you go through, just
like not just tell each other the truth. It's such
a burden. Uh, let's take a quick break and then
we'll come back to discuss and we're back. Uh, where

(25:26):
do you want to start? I know this is like
this is an episode where we like mostly have really
nice things to say. Um, I have a question for
you too. Yes, if you were to make a movie
that about your family and you did not want them
to know, how far away would you film from them? I?

(25:50):
Uh not in the same state? Okay, Okay, okay, yeah
I would. Um, my family and I are separated by
around three thousand miles because they all live on the
East Coast, So um yeah I feel pretty good about
that distance. Okay, cool. Yeah, well okay, so my family

(26:16):
really are super offline except for my grandma. So like
if it was like if it was about my grandma,
my grandma would know. But if it's other family, I
would probably feel safe being Okay, like filming even like
you know, in a different area code, but like even
southern California or something. That's that's how this connected they are,

(26:37):
so I would probably feel safe. Sure, yeah, yeah, even
just like twenty minutes away, that's I feel like that's
all you need because it's like twenty minutes is just
far enough there. It's like, what are they like it
would take a big coincidence for them to stumble upon
one block? Really, is that's like edging location? Yeah? Yeah,

(27:00):
no exactly, like there's yeah, if it was twenty minutes away,
you're right. Unless I texted them like, hey, you know,
be here right at this location, meet me for lunch.
That's how I send out my call sheet and like
meet me here at this six am. It's like a

(27:22):
ransom note. Yes, yes, that's so funny. I guess. Yeah.
To to start, I mean, there's just there's so much
to talk about here there. It's like I guess if
we start with Billy and like who she is as

(27:42):
a character, I mean, we like see her at the beginning,
like in this extremely American, like American millennial thing where
it's like she's in her late twenties and like struggling
as a writer and is applying for all these fellowships
and like struggling with any but doesn't want to talk
about it, and like all these very recognizable things, and

(28:06):
then and then for most of the movie, we're watching
her um kind of like straddle across. I mean, that's
the whole movie, as her straddling across the values of
two different cultures and like figuring out how she actually feels.
It's cool. I feel like there's not a lot of
not a lot of movies, especially mainstream movies, UM like

(28:26):
this that like even addressed that at all, even though
it's a very common, uh, a very common thing. Yeah,
is this considered mainstream? You think? I guess I just
say mainstream because it got so much a word attention.
Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't know. I
mean it's I was interested in, like because there was

(28:48):
a whole controversy about this movies, like during awards season
where it was like put in. I feel like this
happens all the time, where it was like put in
the Best Foreign Language Movie and there wasn't Yeah, at
at the Golden Globes and then in the at the
Academy Awards that they have different rules, and Lulu Wang

(29:11):
talked about it pretty extensively about um, you know, just
challenging those decisions and like challenging like this is an
American movie, it was made by an American, the you know,
the main character is an American. It's an American drama.
But the way the awards shows are built doesn't accommodate

(29:31):
a story like this, and like why is that? And
I don't know, there's she gave a lot of really
interesting interviews that kind of like challenge just I mean,
and that's been fortunately, I think like a lot of
the last couple of years is just challenging what a
shit show and how like extremely rigidly white movie award

(29:54):
shows are. And I vaguely remember that being a discussion
when when this movie was in the awards season. But
reading the interviews and depth was really interesting. Yeah. Right,
it's like what it has to be English spoken or
something for I think Golden Globes or something. Um, I

(30:15):
do remember that just because it happened again this year,
right um with Minari Right Yeah, where it just seems
like those categories like need to be revisited and just
they need to be modernized basically a new test, a
new test. Well because maybe like y'all's goal is to

(30:35):
like one day where the Bechdel Test isn't needed anymore,
right or I don't know. I want your podcast to
keep going. I mean I feel like as I mean
even like between the time the show started and now
it's like to come, I mean, not that representation has
gotten so wildly better, but it has, like I proved,

(30:57):
in the last five years. I think she has been
for five goddamn years. No, yeah, well that's why. Like,
but there's so many films to like we visit from
like decades ago and stuff, and so there's so many
more Shreks. I mean, stop it, there's a fifth one
on the way. How many? What? No? Stop, wait, there's

(31:17):
a fifth Shrek. Wait. I missed the fourth, and I
just found out about the third honestly talking to you
all today. Um, and and you you you went to
the fifth, So can you just tell me there there's kids?
Is it like about the kids now or something? They

(31:37):
start having kids? I think that's the third movie. There's
a new generation of Shreks. Yeah, okay, and then what
a Shrek forever after? I just remember going on a
date in high school Shrek forever after. Yeah, I've seen
up to Shrek three. I have not seen Shrek four.

(31:58):
There's also like spin off off. There's like a Puss
in Boots movie, which I skipped that one. True, Well,
that's your mistake. I thought it was a blast uh
Shrek forever. After they break in Rumpels Stiltskin, it's I
vaguely remember this, Yeah, expand the universe. That's the the

(32:20):
guy who says riddles. I think he wants to steal
babies from people. So he's like, give me your I'll
spind you some gold, but you have to promise me
your first born. Or he's also like, what's my name?
What's my name? Kinky? Okay, here's what's my motherfucking name.

(32:44):
I'll tell I'll tell you the story of Rumples Stiltskin
and then we'll get back to the farewell. Yeah, I
don't I don't think I know this story, and it
sounds okay. So Rumpel's Stiltskin. There's like this young maiden
who so one's like we need someone to spin this
room full of hay into gold or something like that,

(33:07):
and she's like, I can do it, and she like
makes this promise that she can do it, but it
turns out she can. She's like, oh no, what I'm
gonna what am I gonna do with this room full
of hey or whatever? And then rumpel Stiltskin shows up
and he's like, guess what. I know how to spin
hay into gold, and I'll do it for you, but
you have to promise me your firstborn child. And she's like, sure,

(33:31):
that's fine, Skins that guy who takes your firstborn child's
and then okay, sorry, I just said he's the guy
that tells radels. That was Yeah, that's so. There's so
much more to it. There's more layers that I was missing.
I didn't know. I thought he was like the Riddler there.

(33:51):
And then he's like he's like but he's like, if
you can guess my name, I won't. Okay, so wait,
but that doesn't happen yet, I don't think so she
so he gives are like the the hey gold or whatever,
and then I think a few other things happen, and
then she has a baby, and then rumble Stiltskin comes
to collect and he's like, give me your baby and
she's like, no, I made that promise and I didn't

(34:13):
mean it. Then he's like, well screw you. Uh, but
if you can guess my name I won't take your baby.
And then somehow she overhears him saying his name, and
then he comes to collect the baby again and she's like, no,
rumpel Stiltskin, you cannot have my baby. And he's like,
oh damn it, you knew my name. All right, I'll

(34:35):
leave now, And that's the story. Hold on, Okay, you
need to have me back for that. Please have me
back for this fifth Shrek. Okay, I take it back.
I really want to come back. Okay, Shrek. When did
Shrek five come at? Shrek five comes out? Wait? Why

(34:57):
won't they tell me we don't need to schedule it now?
But no, that was really you know. I was at
the edge of my seat. Isn't that a riveting story?
It comes out next year? I can hardly wait. What's
going to happen next? Oh? I already know because if

(35:17):
Shrek is having babies, right, maybe it's one of the
babies that tries to I don't know. Anyway, that's my guess. Well,
back to this movie, back to the farewell. Oh yeah,
we were talking about um awards and how they are

(35:37):
not these like prestigious awards, and how they are not
accommodating to stories like this, which is an American story
made by an American director, told from the point of
view of an American and even though a lot of
this movie takes place in another country and is in
a language other than English. But because a lot of awards,

(36:01):
like you said, cater to like white American, monolingual English
language centric stories, and they tend to forget that a
lot of Americans are immigrants or come from immigrant families,
and or they speak languages besides English at home or
in their communities. And these are still very much American

(36:23):
stories featuring American characters. But these awards institutions treat these
movies like they're not. It's just like operates on a
really rigid version of like what being American is. That
like has not made sense for a really really long time. Yeah,
for sure, right, I just think, I mean, for me,

(36:44):
you know these rules the fifty thing, It just depends
on who's watching, because you know, people who make the
I mean hill Billy elogy, I would contend as a
you know, foreign film for for me, you know what
I'm saying, like if we had to go there, because

(37:05):
you know, I just don't know the world, and you
know what I'm saying, but it doesn't make it not American.
Here I am defending it. You know, it doesn't not
make it American. They're just as American as we are,
and they deserve to be at the ceremonies. And so

(37:27):
it's like something I thought was like when I was
just doing research on the background of this movie, like
I feel like, nothing like hits that point home clear
than the fact that like Chinese audiences were not very
interested in this movie. It made like three dollars in China,
and it seems like there's a whole Variety article on

(37:48):
it that will link in the description, but it seems
to boil down to the fact that this is like
a very culturally normal thing to do in China, and
so everyone was kind of like yes, so what, like
why is there a whole movie about this like very
normal thing where I feel like two Americans it's it
for for a lot of Americans, they just didn't know

(38:09):
that this was a cultural practice and that like you know,
watching an American character navigate it was like really compelling
and really interesting. Um so yeah, I mean it's not
news that award shows are like extremely out of touch
and racist and not up to date. In any way.
But there you go, what's the biggest, like your family member,

(38:31):
a family member has told you and then they were like, oh,
just kidding, Oh that's a good one, that's a good question.
I don't know. I feel like my family was like
too honest with me, too young, and it had like
a different kind of negative impact. Where like when I
was seven or eight, my grandma told me and a

(38:53):
Mother's Day breakfast that my mom had had miscare ages,
like a ton of miscarriages before me, and that they
were they were angels following me around, and I got
really scared. Oh my god. But that was so that's
an example of like a super truthful statement that was

(39:14):
kind of scary. It was too real, too soon for
me anyways, Like because then I got scared that they
were like these teenage ghosts following me around, and it
it freaked me out. Oh my god, that is like
I like that their teenage ghosts and not like fetuses.
I imagined them at aging ghost in real time. I
was like, oh, they'd be should be like fourteen fifteen.

(39:37):
So I like got kicked out of school for drawing
all these like ghosts. I was like, oh, these are
my dead brothers and sisters. They followed me around and anyways,
it was it was so too honest. Was my family's problems. Yeah,
my family didn't really. They didn't tell me outright lies.
It was more just about like, oh, like, I'll wait

(39:58):
till year older and then I'll tell you that I
had two abortions. This is my mom when I was
also abortions a lot of drama. My mom when I
was in my mid twenties. She's like, and it was
actually prompted by the death of my grandma. She was like, oh, no,

(40:22):
I'm going to die sometimes, so I better tell my
children things that I want them to know before I die.
So that my mom called me and she's like, I
just want you to know. And this might, you know,
tarnish what you think of me. But I did have
two abortions before you and your siblings were born, and
I was like, Mom, that makes you way cooler than

(40:43):
I thought you were, so thanks for sharing. So yeah,
it was like more stuff like that. Um, but I
don't think I was like outright lied to about anything major. Yeah,
because she still told you. Oscar, did your family ever
tell you any like bizarro like lies when you were

(41:03):
when you were younger. Yeah, this was a big one. Um,
the Farewell. I connect to it not just because of
like cultural stuff or the grandma stuff, you know, but
a lot of it. Yeah, where it's like even like
Aquafina's real life, she was raised by her grandma and
so was I. And um, I feel like there's a

(41:23):
lot of Asian Asian stories where it's there's a grandma.
If there's like a like if it's following a woman, Um,
I think like in Hustler to uh not not number two,
I mean t o o um right Constance woose Grandma. Anyway,
I don't want to spoil that movie because yeah, I
know people aren't listening to get spoiled on Hustler right now.

(41:47):
But anyway, is it called was it called hustler hustlers?
Hustlers hustlers? I forgot about that detail. Yeah, that her her,
she's like part of the reason she's working at the
club is to support her grandma. I forgot about that. Yeah,
And um there's a grandma and fresh off the boat,
there's always a grandma. Um, I don't know they live

(42:08):
long um. Nor from Queen's Too She, which is loosely
based on Aquafina's life. But yeah, she yeah, lives with
her grandma. Yeah, but in my case for the farewell,
like I feel like I was, I wasn't like I
was the grandma in the grandma's position. My mom and
grandma lied about how long we were going to come

(42:28):
to the States for. They lied to me about They
said we were coming for a two month vacation, which
is I feel like a lot of undocumented immigrants, it's
a it's a thing the families say, we're just here
and then you just never leave, right Yeah. Yeah, and
so that, yeah, that was the main life. But I
didn't know at the you know, I didn't know for

(42:51):
a long time. Well I knew when I was like,
well it's been two months, y'all, and you know, our
tourist visas were only for two months long. And then
my grandma was like and then she enrolled me in school,
and suddenly I was in school. And then like a
year went by and you're like, I don't think this
is a too long as hell. The rest of our

(43:15):
stuff got shipped from Japan. But she still tried to
sit me down to tell me, like when I was
like seventeen, when I was trying to get my driver's license.
I was like, I want to drive like the other kids.
And then she was like, oh, you can't because you
don't have a social Security number because you're undocumented. And

(43:39):
I was like, yeah, I think I had a feeling.
Yeah I know, bitch, Yeah, I know. We overstated her visas.
I know. That's it was just wild that she still
felt the need to tell me the truth. So it
was like with withholding, but we never talked about it
because it was like maybe too painful for me. Missed

(44:00):
all my friends, I didn't really say I didn't say
by to them. I didn't say by to my dad
because I thought I was going back after some a
vacation and then, um, yeah, anyway, I love them. My
grandma still try to tell me that she lied to me.
Your grandma is iconic, she truly. I mean, she's a

(44:22):
social media star. She's she's a liar. That's why she's
um I mean. But that's why movies like this are
so important. That's why, you know, we say it all
the time, but why representation is important because they expose

(44:45):
audiences to cultures and communities and philosophies that some people
might not otherwise have much exposure to, so movies like
this can be like an educational tool. Like the first
time I watched this movie, similar to Billy, I was
astonished that the characters would choose not to tell a

(45:06):
family member that she was dying. But then later when
different characters explained to Billy about how they're carrying the
burden for her, because in Eastern philosophy there's a greater
emphasis on a person's role in a group and how
they are part of a larger whole, while Western and

(45:26):
American culture is all about the individual and you know,
like picking yourself up by your bootstraps and stuff. And
then I was like, oh, like I totally get that now,
And yeah, I just thought it was really cool that
one of the major themes of this movie was the
exploration of these cultural and ideological differences, and I thought

(45:46):
Lulu Wang handled that all very thoughtfully. I think the
only thing that the only way they could have made
Billy more American and this was if she then went
on to tell it on This American Life where like podcast,
because that, you know, it's just that's a very American

(46:07):
thing to do, you know, to be like, well, my
story needs to be heard, Well, my grandma's story needs
to be heard NPR or you know whatever, or like
I'm gonna start, I'm gonna do stand up comedy and
I'm going to tell this story on stage. That kind
of is like the full circle where it's like us
giving you all this information and educating you and all

(46:29):
this stuff, and then it's like, but ultimately my story
must be told. Yes, I think that would be actually
like that's my only note. Uh yeah, the scenes where
I mean, there's a lot of scenes in this movie
where that cultural differences between the US and China are

(46:51):
hit on, and they kind of like when I was
watching it back, I was like, oh, they kind of
cover like a lot of ground tier where um, I mean,
there's like the most obvious plat point is the fact
that Billy is really off put and kind of like
freaked out at first by the idea of withholding information
from her grandma about her own health. And they literally

(47:13):
they're they're like in America, this is illegal, and like
that's why she's struggling with it. Um, And then I
like that scene with her with her uncle where he
like he lays it out pretty clearly says we're not
telling nine night because it's our duty to carry this
emotional burden for her and watch how how that like

(47:33):
affects Billy and how that like changes her to an
extent but not but like not entire I don't know.
It felt realistic where it was like, well, she's not
going to unlearn her entire American her entire this American
life in one trip, but like she does, she does

(47:56):
understand it better, and it's like, I don't know, taking
that journey with her was really interesting. But then there's
like conversations at the dinner table about college and about
like career decisions and like choosing a career of passion
for less money versus like something that will guarantee you
becoming rich, and like they're just having these debates over

(48:18):
dinner a lot that I was like, Oh, this is
I don't know. It's it's so seamless in the way
that the movie runs that I didn't even like, I
don't know. I was watching it the second time, I
was like, oh, they're like lu lu wang is covering
a lot of ground here, and like stuff that isn't
even necessarily plot relevant, but it's still kind of fits
into the conversation yeah, because I mean this major theme

(48:42):
the whole movie kind of hinges on is this idea
of like the duality of Billy's like culture and identity
and uh, you know, she has Chinese heritage, but she's
ultimately raised as an America in with American ideology and

(49:02):
just like grappling with that. And that's such a relatable
experience for especially like first generation Americans, and there's just
not a whole lot of movies that explore that. So
it's just really cool to see. Yeah, I guess the
like it's fully americanized version would be I guess they

(49:24):
all just tell the grandma at Thanksgiving or something, yea
dinner and they all like tell her, or like one
person tells her, right yeah, and then um, I don't know,
I don't know that version, you know what I'm saying.

(49:45):
I actually don't know what that version would be because
that's not how my family operates either. My family is
like more like secrets. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to picture.
I don't know, it's just like a close elder family
member of mind. They would just they would be the
ones to find out that they were dying, like from

(50:06):
the doctor directly. Oh oh, that's true. My grandfather has
been sick for a really long time, but like there
was never like he just is always no, they're just like, yeah, man,
you're ninety two. Oh you know what. Yes, that makes
me think, you know, maybe like the more American thing

(50:28):
is which makes me really sad actually is like people
like suffer quietly, like they're the ones that are dealing
with it. And maybe so the secret would be that
like the person with the ailment or illness doesn't want
to tell their family. Maybe they don't want to Yeah,
actually that is I feel like I've seen a lot
of American movies like that where someone knows that they're sick,

(50:53):
they are withholding that information from their family because they
don't want to burden their family with it. And it's yeah,
so I wonder how much that has to do with
like americanized healthcare too, where like there's you know, all
these stories about people who are sick but like can't
afford for all these horrible but I can't afford to
treat their own illness, and so they just don't talk

(51:15):
about it because they're like, well what else am I
going to do? Or like that the burden being not
even emotional but like financial Like there, I've I've had
family members that I didn't want their family to like
go broke, you know, treating it illness, and so they
just didn't mention the illness. Wow, we're fucked. Yeah, and

(51:37):
then instead they go and do like a bucket list.
I feel like that's another movie. I think it's called that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right,
They're like, well, I'm gonna go um like jet skiing.
You know, it's something I haven't done. Something I don't know.
Am I making up movies? That movie? Market Freeman and
Jack Nicholson not gonna watch it? I don't know. I

(52:00):
bet it starts with a cancer diagnosis something like yeah,
you know, let's go. Do you want to come back?
When we talk about that movie, does we even work?
Are there even even any isn't it just men in
the movie? Isn't it just the two of them? I
think it's just the boys on the road trip. But
those are those are some fun movies because we can

(52:20):
just talk about toxic masculinity the whole time, just based
on Okay, First of all, the poster for this movie
is so bizarre. It's uh, Morgan Freeman, which he's got
his arm around Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson's holding a glass
of champagne. There's there's three pictures. One of them is

(52:41):
them at the Egyptian Pyramids. There's a picture. There's a picture.
There's a picture of them about to jump out of
a plane together. And there's a picture of them on
a motorcycle together. But you can tell on the poster
that all of the pictures are photoshopped. So I have

(53:01):
no idea what's going on in this movie at all,
but like, they're not at the Pyramids here, and they're
not on a motorcycle together. It has on rotten tomatoes,
so we obviously it's an urgent. There's an urgent need
to cover this movie. I want to know what happens

(53:21):
at the Pyramids, so yeah, I'll probably check it out. Well,
I just want to know if they actually if they
go and just take a picture outside of it, like
because that's yeah, or did they think you know? Anyway?
Hard to say, only one way to find out. Let's
take a quick break and then we'll come back for
a more discussion. And we're back. Uh, let's talk about

(53:48):
a little bit more about nine Night and and her
relationship with I feel like usually what we have older
characters in movies at all. There's so many tropes attached
to Grandma characters that are avoided by this movie, just
like because the movie is never punching down at her

(54:11):
and we just get to know more about her, Like
she has like complicated history and backstory, and I liked that, Like,
you know, you're introduced to her as like, oh, she's
like this really you know, charismatic matriarch and we love
her and she's great, but then you also see scenes
where she's kind of being an asshole to people. You

(54:32):
see scenes where you know, you find out that she
has also like engaged with this lie before. Like you
just get this whole backstory for her, and you see
all these sides of her that I feel like you
don't usually get for for older characters in family movies
at all. Definitely, Yeah, we talked recently on an episode

(54:53):
that might not have come out yet, but just the
grandma character in a lot of movies is basically there
as a joke or that they're there to like generate
comedy because everyone's like, oh, Grandma doing a grandma thing again,
or oh Grandma, Grandma forgot something, or Grandma couldn't hear

(55:15):
you or something like that, just like that string of
fetty white rolls from like the late two thousand's. Is
there a Grandma test? Is there? We shouldn't know, but
we should be a Grandma test. If there's a Grandma
in the movie, does she just is she just there
for comic relief or does she have like a role

(55:37):
in this story? Oh, we were talking about it in
our Knives Out episode. Yes, yes, yes, So that's coming
out right around now on the Matreon. Yeah, because that's
a movie that does adhere to that trope of like
Grandma isn't aware of her surroundings and Grandma doesn't know anything,
so Grandma dies, That should be part of the test.

(56:00):
She died so bleak. And this one, this one would
almost you would think it would fail the test, but
then at the end it doesn't fail the test because
she lives. Well, that's mostly to protect potential viewers hearts emotions.
I really do feel like I wish I could have
gone in to this movie knowing that she was okay,

(56:20):
because you just have I mean maybe I'm sure that's
a part of it, but we're like being filled with
that dread the whole movie and just like, no, I
love her, don't. And then at the end of like
and She's fine, You're like, oh, okay, great, Yeah, I'm like, well,
show me thirty more minutes of actual footage of her,
because they showed some. They showed some, but I was like,

(56:42):
show me more, show me more. Where's the sequel? Yeah,
she's still alive. Yeah, but what I can tell she's
still alive or she she was alive at the time
this movie came out, So I hope, I hope she
used to be. Well. I feel like if she died,
Lulu Waiting would tell us. I don't know. Maybe I'm
like maybe that, maybe I'm being a para social relationship,

(57:06):
like maybe I'm just like she'd tell me. But I'm like,
I don't know her. She could lie to us. I
don't know. That's I mean, you know so far, you know,
I mean, she did participate in that one line, so
that's true. Wow, I don't know she could you know?
Part two? Who knows? But she's gonna tease us. She's

(57:26):
gonna like shoot it a block like in l a
where we can all see it. She's gonna shoot it
right in Los Angeles wherever you know most of the
farewell fans are or something and be like, I guess
what we're filming. You'll never know, But Aquafina is in
it and the same actress who played her grandma, she
would do that to it. Who's who is amazing too?

(57:49):
I I looked up her history. She was Jen and
she she was, like I guess, a famous theater actress
in China and hadn't ever done a film role and
this is like her first film role. But she was
like a theater icons like, Oh that's so cool. Yeah, nine,

(58:09):
I is so interesting because I feel like she I
don't I don't know how to like there should be
like a word to describe this, and maybe it exists
and I don't know what it is, but like she
has these qualities that are like characteristic of her generation,
but it isn't like over the top, and she does
like compromise with Billy about it, where she like says, oh,

(58:32):
what are you going to get married? You need someone
to take care of you, and Billy pushes back and
she's like I can take care of myself and fine,
and then she brings up like nine I has this
like boyfriend's question mark, who's just like, who is kind
of trash? And nine I was like whatever, Mr Lee,

(58:52):
he's just here um and Billy's like, well, what about
your trash boyfriend? And nine I was like I see
your point. I see your point. I just the moments
like that with them is so are so fun. And
then nine I comes around because later at the wedding,
they're are a group of a few older men who

(59:13):
asked Billy like, oh, are you married, and she's like
not yet, and then nine I jumps in and she's
like no career first, like she I feel like, you know,
she's she's becoming a feminist icon. I didn't even realize
those things. I think I overlooked that. That's cool because
all I heard was like doctor, are you married yet?

(59:36):
And I think I just like, for some reason turned
it off in my head. But yeah, that's cool that
it was more, it was more layered. Actually, yeah, they
learned from each other. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm just
like maybe I have my own test where I'm like,
you know, it's my people, so I get like maybe protective,

(59:56):
where I'm like no, I every Grama asked about you know,
marriage or doctors, you know, like, well, I want to
do that um, but you know that's not lu lose fault.
I mean that's also a thing that a lot of
white grandma's do where they're always asking you about if
you're married yet, but then they also talk about so

(01:00:19):
many other things. You know, it's just that's not what's shown.
That's true. Yeah. I like how that those two characters,
like they both kind of compromise where I feel like
it would have been like a really easy thing to
be like Billie is like no, Grandma, you need to
like think like an American and do like and it
just and then it becomes kind of like propaganda eat

(01:00:40):
like Western propaganda stuff. But they like listen to each
other and they kind of like meet in the middle
in a way that feels like, oh this this feels
like a healthy family relationship. It was cool. Yeah, And
I like that that and that it might be in
that same wedding scene where those other guys are at

(01:01:01):
the table with him, but you find out a little
more about nine night where there's this like a guy
that's been like holding up how do you holding a
flame for her for like fifty years where he's like, yeah,
you know, I really wanted to marry you and like
all this like you know that like where he's just
talking about how he's like I love you. It's like

(01:01:25):
she's like, sorry, I'm with Mr Lee now and I
hate him. Sorry I have everyone's none of us like him.
We don't know why he's here. He's a mystery. So
he really I wonder if that's pulled from from real
life because he was he was he was a wild card.

(01:01:49):
I feel like so much of it is Lulu Wing's
real life were just inspired by details from her and
her family's life. Because, for example, the person who plays
nine e sister in the movie is nine eyes reels
like Lulu Wings her great aunt. Yeah that's so. That

(01:02:10):
wasn't like a trained actor or anything. That was just
she put her great on in the movie in the
same role. High level secrets are being kept. That's the
way to keep it secret, way to make it harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so many somebody, well Cardela did the issue in the

(01:02:30):
grandma's house too, at some point you actual house while
she was sleeping. Maybe they have like the relationship between
Billy and her mom to like, I don't know, there's
so many like different, very specific family relationships that like

(01:02:51):
you don't always get a lot of time with them,
but they feel like the dynamics are really well written
and clear, where like Billy is definitely served with nine Night.
Then she is with her mom, and her mom is
like a little I don't even know how to like.
She's just like less emotionally expressive and is very like practical,

(01:03:11):
like I do what I have to do and I'm
not gonna like she she kind of like pokes at
Billy for like crying, and she's like, well, I'm not
just going to cry about stuff like you do. I
was like, okay, Mom, but you also like I don't know,
I mean, there's the I feel like that the mom.
When this movie came out, like Aquafina's performance and Jao

(01:03:33):
Sujin's performance were so I mean, like rightfully so um spotlighted.
But I thought the actress who played the mom was
so good and like deserved more of a shout out.
Her name is Diana Lynne, and I really like like
she is like dealing with having an alcoholic husband in
a way that doesn't really take over the story but

(01:03:56):
is like clearly a reality that she just else like
I just have to deal with this. There's no point
in expressing emotion about it. This is just what it is,
um and and has like these differences with her daughter
that keep coming up of differences on how they're grieving,
differences on how they view America, where like the mom

(01:04:18):
there's like that story about the church key thing where
they just view the US very differently. And I don't know,
I just I liked I liked all of her story beats.
It felt like she was a very fleshed out character
that kind of I don't know, I just really liked her. Yeah,
And then Akwafine is like, Mom, that church is not

(01:04:40):
representative of all of America, right, But yeah, I mean
like the relationships and the characters in this movie, Yeah,
they're like, we just really well developed and they feel
very authentic. And it's obviously because they're based on real people.

(01:05:00):
Because I feel like in a lot of movies where
there's like, for example, a really tropy grandma character or
like a really trophy mother daughter relationship, they are written
by people who are basing those characters off of tropes
they saw in other movies, where like rather than like

(01:05:21):
basing them off of character like off of real people,
It's like this whole like tropes beget more tropes kind
of thing where some writers are like, well, I'm writing
a movie with a grandma character in it, and this
is how I've seen other grandma's depicted in movies, so
I'll just write that it is. I mean, it's like,

(01:05:43):
I I totally agree with you, and you really can
tell when there's like an authentic experience behind it and
when it's uh, particularly male writers writing out mother daughter relationships,
I feel like sometimes come off as super just dis
an end of like is this how you think your
family talks when you're not around? Sir? Right? Yeah? Yeah,

(01:06:06):
And I mean lu Luang is just like such a
good distinct writer and it just feels very very natural
for sure. Yeah. Like you said, like when the writers
basing things off of their real lived experiences and the
real people in their lives, like, it's no wonder that
you get these rich, authentic characters and situations like you

(01:06:30):
see in The Farewell. It's true. Um. And then another
scene I wanted to talk about was where they're looking
for Billy's cousin's future his wife's hearing and Billy has
a breakdown because she's again she's been grappling with this

(01:06:52):
dilemma of like, I really think that we should tell
nine I that she's ill, and everyone else keeps being like, no, no, no,
under no circumstances will we do that, and it's weighing
on her emotionally. And then she tells this kind of
childhood story of how she before her family immigrated to

(01:07:15):
the US, she would spend summers with her grandma and
grandpa and he was sick and no one, no one
told him that he was sick, and no one told
little Billy that he was sick. So that like after
they went to the US and he died, and then
when they would go back to visit, he wasn't there anymore.

(01:07:37):
And how like confusing and tragic that was because she
never had the opportunity to say goodbye. And when she was,
you know, like her early life in the US, she
was scared and confused. And she saw that same kind
of frightened look on her mother's face, and you know,
they're just like kind of explaining all of those emotions

(01:08:00):
and her mom is like, yeah, it was difficult for
us too, and just that kind of whole experience, and
like the performance that Aquafina is giving in that scene
is just like, oh, that part it really got me
because it was like, well, but different kind of story.
But yeah, it was like like I still think about

(01:08:20):
Japan even though it's not my home anymore, but it's
such a harsh realization where it's like and I think
I was always scared. I always had like separation anxiety.
My grandma would be like, well, you've got to be
independent soon now, you know. And but it's because, like
grandmother tell me, we were going to stay here. So
I didn't say bye to my friends when I went
back to Japan. When I finally could, they were no

(01:08:43):
longer my friends. They had moved on. You know. When
I finally got my green quarter, I could leave the
country legally. Yeah, that part I was like, oh my god. Um.
I mean not to make it about me, but you
know what an American thing to do. Well, I am
on a pod casts, so like, you know, I do
want to I do want to talk about Aqua fee

(01:09:04):
as great performance, but also my my life. So what
about my performance just on this podcast? I mean, you're
doing great. Yeah, we should have done we should have
done Shrek. No, No, I'm just kidding. Have we talked

(01:09:31):
to about her dad at all. I don't know how.
I don't think so, just that he seems to maybe
be struggling with alcoholism. Oh that was the moment with
nine eight where I was like, nine eight, what are
you doing? Where she like super contradicts herself in a
way that I was like really feeling for Billy's mom

(01:09:53):
in that moment where like when they first arrived, nine
is like, hey, is he drew sinking again? Like we
really need to be careful and that he's not drinking
too much, and then like a half hour later he's
drinking too much and Billy's mom was like, hey stop
and nine I was like, let him drink and let
him Oh my god, why do you Literally my grandma

(01:10:16):
used to do that with my dad and not good.
Not good. Yeah, I forget. What's she going through something?
Is that why she changed her mind or she just
did that? I couldn't tell. I thought that that was
like an interesting character moment for her, where like I
feel like she has kind of like a shiny halo
for a lot of the movie, and in that moment,
I'm like, you're being a like you're being meat to

(01:10:38):
Billy's mom, Like why why? I think it was just
like the wedding coming up, and it was like cause
for celebration, and she keeps being like, well, this is
the first time, like we've all been together as a
family in like twenty five years or something, so like
let's enjoy ourselves. And I was like, but what about yesterday, Nina,

(01:11:00):
you said this literally yesterday anyways? Um, but yeah, the
the actor who plays Billy's dad is see Ma, who
I've seen in a bunch of stuff, Like he's an
iconic character actor. He did an amazing job everyone just
the I mean, I remembered him. I was like, oh,

(01:11:22):
the guy from Arrival. He's recovered that pretty recently right away. So,
I mean, it's just the performances in this movie all
around are incredible, including from people who are not actors, uh,
such as like Lulu Wang's great aunt. I would not

(01:11:43):
have guessed that, Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that she
wasn't a professionally trained actor, right. I wonder who else
the bride did she have lines? I forget. I feel
like she didn't get to say much, right, she barely
said anything. I think I'm going I'm looking on IMDb

(01:12:03):
and the cast of the movie of the Ones that
have photos of themselves next to their name, those are
like more established actors, and the people who do not
have photos next to their name, I'm guessing they are
not really established or trained actors. And I would say
like half of the cast are not necessarily trained famous

(01:12:30):
of actors at all. So um, but it's that's just
a testament to like Lulu Wang's directing skills and how
she's able to get such good performances out of people
who are not necessarily trained actors. So this is awesome. Yeah,
what else? Any other thoughts about the movie for me? Really? Yeah?

(01:12:56):
I liked the Um, let me see if I had
anything else in the I liked this scene where they
mourned the grandfather. That was just like learning moment for me.
I didn't No, Um, hey, everybody post episode, Jamie and Caitlin,
why wasn't fully aware of this? Uh when we were

(01:13:17):
recording the episode, but I wanted to make sure it
was acknowledged. Um. Aquafina has been criticized repeatedly over the
years for appropriating black aesthetics, starting with her early rap career. Uh.
It is, to my knowledge, not something she's ever addressed publicly,
but I uh and it, and it doesn't really apply

(01:13:37):
in the movie The Farewell, But that has been kind
of some of the nature of the criticism, where she
appropriates black aesthetics in certain roles and then in other
roles doesn't, And so it becomes pretty clear what's being done.
She is not the only person to have done this.
There are I mean, there's a huge history in music

(01:13:57):
and movies and TV of doing this. But I just
wanted to uh share for context this, uh this quote
and what will link this in the description of the
episode as well. This is an opinion piece from the
Duke Chronicle from last year. Uh. The piece called on
Aquafina appropriation and Asian American identity by a writer named

(01:14:20):
Hannah Mao. I hope I'm saying that correctly, and uh
here is the kind of summary of of of what
the pieces about she says. Quote. Many have rightly criticized
Aquafina for rising to start them through an appropriation of
black aesthetics. From her viral rap song My Vade to
her breakout role as peklin Go in Crazy Rich Asians,

(01:14:43):
Aquafina has made a career out of performing a caricatured
version of blackness, co opting African American vernacular English, a
ve speaking in a quote unquote black scent and playing
characters that could be interpreted as minstrel esque. Aquafina has
a worn blackness like a costume, putting it on when
it commercially rewards her in Crazy Rich Asians and Oceans Eight,

(01:15:04):
and taking it off when it does not, like in
The Farewell and her newest project Nora from Queens. Uh.
It's a really good piece. We'll link it that discusses
other entertainers who have have done similar things, but I
just wanted to acknowledge it in in this episode as well.
Thank you, Jeney. Yeah, I think that's that's kind of

(01:15:25):
all I had. I just like that, like you see
a like a ton of different like relationships between women
from different generations. I feel like it's already like a
super rare thing to see like written thoughtfully in movies,
especially between like Billy, her mom and nine and I
like three women with different perspectives on a lot of

(01:15:46):
stuff and watching them like navigate life but still really
care about each other even when like especially with Billy
and her mom, like could not be more different, but
like are both coming from like very understandable genuine places.
I just I don't know. I love I love a
movie with multiple generations of women, um, disagreeing on things.

(01:16:11):
So I think that's just a genre that I like.
Hashtag relatable Yeah, same yeah, hashtag a living it. Um.
One of my favorites was Great Gardens. Oh my god,
when you said when you said, yeah, different generations of
women disagreeing with each other, you know, having to like

(01:16:34):
figure it out together. Yeah, and they're kind of they're
kind of codependent. We gotta I'm like, I know it's
you know, it's a documentary, but we should maybe just
cover I was living Steel Magnolias. It's like all about
women get a good fight, like in in understandable, like
not baseless conflict, just like because because then because then

(01:16:57):
I feel like you just get like real acting performances,
and it's it's very exciting. Um. Anyways, I don't have
any more notes. I'm excited to see what Lulu Wang
does next to I know that she's got science fiction
e project in the works right now that I'm like,

(01:17:19):
I don't know much about, but it sounds pretty interesting.
And I just hope that you know that because this
was like the movie that like really launched her career,
that she'll you know, get to make a bunch of
cool ship and like, uh, get the kind of blank
check treatment that we see with a lot of white

(01:17:41):
guy directors, because like she's super talented, she's got like
and I'm excited to see her work in a different
genre too. I was like, Oh, what is a Lulu
wait sci fi movie gonna look like? Yeah, totally. Oh,
I hope it shoots a block away from my house.
Whatever it is, whatever it is, I want to get
a peek. I just want to peek. What if you

(01:18:02):
get cast to be the star or I'll just like
being in the background. I don't care. I'll just like
point out, point out whatever, like the scary thing is.
You know, I'm just assuming there's a scary thing. I
mean probably that's that's where the side comes in. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

(01:18:23):
Um well, the movie does definitely pass the Bechdel test
a lot. Billy. I think there are probably more conversations
between Billy and nine I than any other combination. I
didn't like track this scientifically, but um yeah billion billion,
her mom billion and we didn't talk about her her aunt,

(01:18:46):
but Billy and her aunt talk quite a bit as well. Yeah,
I like, men are definitely present in this story, but
like not not overwhelmingly. So they're they're there and they're
and they're emoting to their yeah yeah men. Yeah, it's
just like a really beautiful family dynamic that we're seeing,

(01:19:10):
where like different family members disagree for different reasons. Some
of them are cultural reasons, some of them are just
because they have different personalities. Like, it's just very emblematic
of how families work, and yeah, this is just like
a very relatable story about complicated family dynamics, which is

(01:19:32):
something that everyone can relate to, because, like I think
there's a tendency for American Hollywood like movie studios to assume, like, oh, well,
this has an all Asian cast and they're not speaking
English most of the time, so there's no way this
would appeal to American audiences because there's just so much

(01:19:55):
bias when it comes to what studios and like your
big onlywood gatekeeper people think audiences will and won't relate to.
But this movie and many movies like it are just
very human stories that do have a wide appeal because

(01:20:15):
because we're all people. Unless yeah, unless you're Mr Lee,
unless do literally, and then for some reason, you're you're
just come of the earth. Yeah, didn't even I just checked.
Mr Lee didn't even make the poster. It's the only

(01:20:37):
character that didn't make the poster. Yeah, so we'll figure
that out. Justice for Mr Lee, figure it out. Where's
his spin off? Maybe he'll pop up in Shrek five.
We don't know, he's gonna be the lead of the
sci fi movie that. Yeah, it's a whole sci fi

(01:20:57):
story where he's like a cyborg. Yeah. Uh. And then
as far as our nipple scale, which is our scale
of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie
through an intersectional feminist lens, hmm. I didn't have like

(01:21:19):
a bad thing to say about this movie, so it's
obviously going to get a high nipple rating. I'm picking. Look,
I'm I'm going to withhold this information for the rest
of the episode. No, I don't know. I'm just like,

(01:21:41):
I feel like we just recorded an episode earlier today
where we gave the movie five nipples, and I'm like,
wait a minute, am I about to give two movies
in a row five nipples? Yeah? Makes you feel unsure,
It makes me feel unsure. But I mean just based
everything we've talked about in terms of the way the

(01:22:04):
women are characterized, the way just the family dynamics are characterized,
the relationships, the exploration of Billy's characters experience, and the
dilemma that she's feeling based on this like duality of
her cultures. I don't know. I think it's like again,

(01:22:27):
I don't have any criticism. I'm getting so impatient. Jamie's like, you,
you can give two fives one day. I know, but
I'm just like, it's so rare to give five nipples
that I'm like, this, is this a mistake. We've been
covering too many good movies, is our problem. We keep

(01:22:51):
choosing these movies that are really good, which is why
we need to cover Shrek four guarantee. It's what if
it is five? Though? What if we were like rumpled
Stilts can move me to tears? Yeah yeah? Or or
wait for um Mr Lee strikes back ulus Yeah response

(01:23:18):
to the Farewell the sci fi movie, Um yeah, yeah.
I'm gonna get five nipples and I will distribute them
to Lu lu Wang Shao shu Jin, who plays nine,
I to Diana Lynn, who plays Blais, mom to the
great aunt whose name is lu hang just everyone. Also,

(01:23:44):
I go who plays the the bride, who's just for
the bread. She's just trying to figure out what's happening
the whole. She doesn't speak Mandarin, so she does not
know what anyone is saying. I mean, honestly, I would
be like, so pissed that the boy my boyfriend or
my fiance. Right, why isn't he translating for her? Yeah?

(01:24:04):
I would be like, why do you Like, I can't
believe you're making me do this. I don't you know,
I don't have to like I'm a whole person. Yeah,
where's her spinoff movie? That's another moment where nine I
is an asshole where she's like I hate this girl.
She doesn't know what's going on, and and Billy is like, yeah,
she has no idea what anyone is saying, and Nine

(01:24:26):
I was like anyway, like I know, And she's like,
I don't even want to get married to him. Maybe
maybe not even anymore? You know what I'm saying. Right,
the whole the wedding is is like a sham just
to get everyone together. So I would break up with
him after all this whole thing. I would I would

(01:24:47):
be like, you made me you made me like forced,
get forced into a marriage and like go through all
that family drama. You don't even say much. I don't.
You don't even have a personality. Goodbye. You know that's
what I would fair fair. So, yeah, those are my
five nipples I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm almost going

(01:25:08):
to give the movie five nipples because I really like it.
I really like a story about multiple generations of women.
I feel like I've said everything that I want to
say about it. I want to give a five nipples,
and I'm going to give all of my nipples to
Lulu Wang's real grandma, who who was a block away

(01:25:28):
the whole time. I feel like that adds a whole
another level to the experience. She was steps away, and
I was so happy to hear that she was still
with us at the end. It was in a movie
full of great parts, it is the finding out that
the real nine eight is alive is the best part.
I like gasped in the theater. I was like, wow,

(01:25:53):
it's a feel good ending. Um yeah, I love it. Yeah,
and I'm excited to see uh more flu waiting stuff
in the future. Yeah, that's go. What about you? I'm
gonna have to give it um four nipples for ico
Um and her situation. You know, the movie really crushed

(01:26:15):
the other parts. I just really I still think about
her and and her situation. So yeah, there was room
for a subplot with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's
that's the only reason. And I would give the four
stars for nipples. For nipples to Um. I mean, I

(01:26:39):
guess Lulu Wayne, good job girl. Am I allowed to
do that? Yeah? Whatever you want. Yeah. And her friend no, actually,
her friend like talked right, and that's why the grandma
found out. Oh the sister, your grandma's sister, who who
is your movie? Yeah, she got sucked up into the

(01:26:59):
into a Hollywood glitz of it all, like maybe real nine.
I was like, so, what have you been up to?
And she's like, oh, I've been in this movie abouts right, Yeah,
we'll never know. Well, OT's go. It's always a pleasure
to have you. Thank you so much for being here,

(01:27:20):
Thank you for having me back, um, and we'll see
you soon for Shrek four or whatever, Struck five, Shrek three,
Shrek two, any anything, Hey, count count me in. I

(01:27:42):
want to know how many nipples are gonna give it? Um?
Where can people follow you online and is there anything
you'd like to plug. I'm just at Otsco Comedy and
you can just see what I'm up to there on
the socials. Amazing. Uh, We're in all the regular places.

(01:28:03):
We're on Instagram, Twitter, at Bechtel Cast, you can follow
us on our Patreon, ak Matrian at patreon dot com
slash Bechtel Cast, where we're talking about knives out this week,
and you can get merchanty Public dot com slash the
Bechtel Cast if that is your desire in life. All true,

(01:28:25):
these are these are not lies. These are not lies
that we're telling you. We're not withholding any information at
this time. We are telling you the truth. So thanks
for tuning in and we'll see you next week. Bye bye,
thank you, bye,