The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello. Back to cast listeners. Quick plug at the top
of the show, and it's especially relevant for today's episode
because we are doing an online live reading of the
Santa Claus the First Movie with Jamie with me Hi.
It's Caitlin with Grace Thomas, who was our guest on
the first Santa Claus episode from last year and who

(00:23):
is our guest on today's episode. Also with Joel Monique
and with Danielle Perez. So we've got a great cast.
We're so excited. It's going to be so much fun.
The show is on Sunday, December at six pm Pacific
nine pm Eastern. Check out our Twitter or Instagram or
go to Caitlin Deronte dot com slash shows for information

(00:45):
on how to get tickets to the stream on YouTube,
which you can watch live on December or you can
watch anytime after that as long as you've bought a ticket.
We are doing this show as a fundraiser for Reclaim
and Rebuild our Community, a very worthy cause, so we
really hope you'll support them. Check out the show. We

(01:07):
love doing these shows and we really hope you'll join
us and until then, enjoy today's episode on the Beck
dol Cast. The questions asked if movies have women and
um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or
do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
it with the bec Del Cast. I'm going to start

(01:30):
with my favorite quote from the movie. Ready, Yes, I'm ready.
Wow wow wow. Welcome to the bec Del Cast. My
name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Drante. So
that was that was Alan Arkins. Yeah, his last lines
in the movie are wow wow wow. You know what,

(01:55):
it didn't make an impression on me, and I didn't
really talk with me because he makes a terrible pun.
And then and Margaret is like, let me get in
on this little pun. And then Adam Marken Alan Arkin
says wow wow wow. And that's the end of his arc.
That's the end of his Arkin. He who talking about

(02:21):
wow wow wow. He goes from being like I'm in
a garage to wow wow wow, I'm Santa's father in law.
Incredible storytelling, really beautiful stuff. This is the Bechtel Cast,
by the way, ever heard of it? Yes, this is
our our our Santa Claus three episode. But first, this

(02:45):
is our podcast where we discuss movies from an intersectional
feminist lens, using the Bechtel test merely as a jumping
off point. Jamie, tell me about the Bechtel test. I
forget well, um, I'll tell you. The Bechdel test is
sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test. It's a media metric

(03:07):
that was invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires,
for our purposes. Many different versions of this test. Our
purposes require that two people of a marginalized gender with
names speak to each other about something other than a
man for two lines of dialogue. I'm realizing I don't

(03:28):
really know if that happens in the Santa Claus three?
Does it? I didn't pay attention for everyone who I
don't know. I listened to our podcast thirty seconds one time.
They're like, is this the podcast? I was figuring it out.
It isn't, and I honestly didn't even remember to pay
attention this time. That does it? Great? I think that

(03:49):
like the question you need to ask first is do
all elves count as a marginalized gender? If if the
answer is yes, then still no, it does not pass
gets to talk to each other. There were so many.

(04:10):
There was one time I wrote in my Okay, so
this is our Santa Claus three episode. We're going to
introduce her to a second but Grace Thomas is back.
This is our one of our most honored holiday traditions.
Even though it's just the second time and there's only
three movies, we're going to figure it out. Um. Truly
one of our favorite episodes, one of our, like one
of our listeners favorite episodes. I did write down in

(04:31):
my notes um that there were probably a lot of
child actors who got their sag card on this movie,
because there's a lot of elves that have one line
and they go they just get in the line, a
single file line in front of Tim Allen and they say, Hi, Santa,
look at my toy. And then Tim Allen goes, wow,
what a great toy. And then they just go to
the back of the elf line and the next kid

(04:51):
comes up and they and then he actually, I think
if you look in the blooper reel, he hands them
a sag card. Tim Allen hands them one, and then yeah,
this is the this is the Bechdel Cast. So yes,
so our our our guest today. She's a very funny comedian.
She has a podcast coming out in January called Competitive Literature,

(05:14):
which everyone must check out. And you remember her from
our Santa Claus one episode. It's Grace Thomas. Hello, what's up.
I would just like to say hello out of the fans,
first of all, first and foremost, I'm really you know,
without you, this episode wouldn't have happened because Jamie and

(05:37):
Caitlin hated the last episode. They despised it. But the fans,
the fans just kept calling out for another one and
then and then it just had to happen. That is true.
I mean we famously did on stage and then Caitlin,
you edited it out later, but at the end of
the show, you and I said in unison we hate

(06:00):
at this and people at the show remember, but it
was they booed you the entire audience. Things really kicked
up that night. I mean, if you were at the
Denver show, I'm sure you can you know there there
was a fight there court records. We were at court.

(06:20):
We had to go on zoom because what with you know,
the whole situation. But we went to court on zoom
and you know, I was I was happy with with
with where we settled on that. Yeah, they did, but
the court didn't resolve it until like April of this year,
even though that it was recorded in December, just because apparently,
apparently theater brawls are way down on the list of

(06:48):
not a top priority. It's unfair, it's not right. But
I did think it was very clever that you and
your lawyer added that if you won in Zoom court
that you would come back for the Fan Claus three. Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I'm totally broke from hiring a lawyer for this,
and the judge. The judge did say I didn't need

(07:10):
to hire one because it was, like I miss mean,
but it was it was worth it. I think. I
think we're all satisfied with where it's landed. I think
so I'm so excited to talk about this movie because
I remember, Grace, you said last year during Santa Claus
one that Santa Claus three a movie I think I've

(07:31):
only seen one time. It feels like it takes place
in a completely different universe than the first one. It's
it's it's, it's it's I'm getting worked up. I am
getting worked up. It just it does not make sense

(07:54):
as a continuation of the first two movies, not just
canon wise, not just how it just blows past Cannon,
not just how it warps the story and the characters,
but just like totally the first the reason the first
two movies are funny it is because it's got this

(08:15):
kind of like serious, real world perspective, dealing with these
like you know, real world emotions, you know, like dealing
with divorce, dealing with getting back out there. I'm not
saying these are super serious movies. But then all of
a sudden, there's like on Elf C I a you know,
that's why they're so enjoyable, and then there's some everything changes.

(08:42):
In Santa Claus three, there's there's none of that reality.
It's all just it's like it's like a ranking bass special,
but in the worst way. I love Ranking bass specials,
but it's that in the world because it's it's just detached.
And when it's not, when it's this you know, live action,
it's not only a live live action as opposed to claimation,

(09:05):
it's also a continuation of a franchise that wasn't that
at all, and it just has less it has it
leans into the fantasy elements and has less fun with them.
At the same time, and also like effectively kind of
like ruins some of the good parts of the first movie,
which I forgot that it does. At the end, it

(09:26):
goes back to the first movie and then adds in
a bunch of like nonsense as Cannon that it's like, oh,
actually in Martin short killed Fanta when he went hey,
that was the only part of the movie that I liked.
That when they go back like travel through time and

(09:46):
like screw with the timeline, because I love that stuff.
I love any like time travel, screwing with the timeline.
I don't know, I like that too, and I mean
they do I guess fix it kind of in the end.
But I will say before we get into the synopsis,
before we even get into the rest of it, I'll
get the the nipple score of this movie. I don't

(10:11):
even think we can pretend that it's even gonna get half,
you know, because this is by far the most misogynistic
Santa Claus movie of the three, by far, and it's
also maybe the most misogynistic Christmas movie I've ever seen.
Like it's like devastating, It's like so misogynistic that you

(10:35):
almost had to look because I'm like, okay, the second
we can't talk about the Santa Claus Too too much
because we had to talk about it next year. But like,
you know, the the whole Santa Claus Too is like
and we're just gonna, we're gonna, we gotta we gotta
get Carol to give that career up. We gotta get
her out of that job of hers. And so you
think that that would be the most misogynistic one, but

(10:57):
it's not. It's the one where she's in abor for
the whole movie, and at least in the Santa Claus
to like kind of oh, she's like, oh Christmas magic.
You know. She's like like, well, you know, I don't know.
If I was presented with marrying Santa Claus and I
knew he was Santa and whatnot, maybe you know, I

(11:19):
just leave everything behind. Maybe I would. I think I
would for me would, But I would also I would
demand a role, you know, I would be like, you know,
I would be an active first Lady of the North Pole.
Mrs Claus has a role. It's just completely nonsensical, any sense.

(11:47):
You mean, when she teaches children elves in in elf
school who look identical to the adult elves, just because
all the elves look like children yeah, is that what
you mean that? Fus? Yeah, I think about that regularly
and it really sucks up. How do you get how
do they get made? Do they just like they're on

(12:10):
like a Twilight loop? They just go back to school
every hundred years, they just keep going there. I was
confused at that too, because maybe I missed something, which
is possible because this movie feels long, but it's very short. Um.
She seems to only teach them about her life, like

(12:30):
her main lesson is like kind of like what happened
to her the Christmachine. She is trying to teach them math.
She is at first she's like, there's a there's a
reindeer math question, and then Abigail Breslin is like, stands
up and she she's you know, she's feminist. I can
on Abigail Breslin because she stands up and she's like, listen,

(12:53):
Mrs Claus, I want to know why don't you teach
just what we want to learn? And you'd think it
would be like an anything but like slay Man, you know,
but what she wants to know and apparently the whole
class wants to know is she pretty explicitly says like
why did you leave your entire life to come up
here and teach, which is a very that's just good journalist.

(13:18):
That's good journalists like it. It does beg the question
and that that part. So she does start by teaching
a math problem, but then she derails math class to
tell her life story um, which is unusual for an
elementary teacher to do. UM. But that specific moment, there's
and this is a bad this is a note I
took that I'm like, well, I don't like this note.

(13:41):
It reminded me of the beginning of Portrait of a
Lady on Fire, Oh, where they're like in the class
and she's like, who is this and then she likes like, oh, well,
it's a whole thing. There's a way to read this
in your film as an analog a Portrait of a

(14:04):
Lady on Fire. I mean, one of the last scenes
is you know, Santa looking at Jack Frost from across
the room, and then Jack Frost looks back at Santa,
and then the movie's over, you know, And if that
isn't Mozart is playing yes and our Our Scott Calvin

(14:29):
ak Santa Claus is pants not on fire. At one
point in the movie, part on Fire of a Santa
Claus on the fire. I think that these French assholes
ripped top the Santa Claus three, the Escape Claws so badly,

(14:50):
and I think they need to be held accountable for
the last place you'd expect to look for plagiarism. It's
the perfect crime, It's the the crime there. I so
I did. Yeah. At the beginning, I read down Abigail
Breslin Portrait of an alphon fire, but it is portrait

(15:10):
of a Santa Claus on fire. At the end, Yeah,
I'll give I'll give it up to this to the
Santa Claus through the escape clause. It is a very
gay movie, even though it's violently misogynistic. Can be both
of those things, and it is two things can be true,

(15:31):
there are I felt honestly, I have like, I have
a fair amount of notes, but I have the thing
I have more notes than I was prepared to have.
Was in regards to um the Blooper reel, which I
guess we'll get to. But the Bloper real really um
resonated with me. I feel like it because it is

(15:54):
Tim Allen and Martin short yelling, screaming, screaming, screaming, and
like ten different scenes and then you're like, wow, I
guess they were screaming in Unison in a lot of
different scenes, but when there's no special effects or music,
it really is jarring to be like, wow, they're screaming.
And then one of the only other bloopers there's like
a there's like a few random ones, but it's like

(16:17):
Tim Allen screaming, Martin Schortz screaming, Tim Allen and Martin
Shortz screaming. And then one scene of the Easter Bunny
sexually harassing and Margaret and her saying I'm so uncomfortable,
and then children laugh and you're like, wait, there's children here,
and then that's the end of the One of the
worst parts of this movie is that everybody wants to

(16:39):
fuck Carol's mom, oh my gosh, except for Carol's dad
doesn't want anything because Carol's dad a k a. Alan
Arkin wants to have sex with Aisha Tyler, which I
was kind of which I was like, Okay, that's kind
of an iconic pairing, but also like, you can't that

(17:03):
you can't. I'm split on that. I'm split on that
and not about like I'm split on whether or not
he wanted to suck it because it's like one like three,
Like he's like putting his head on her shoulder. So like,
my there were a lot of weird sexual things in

(17:24):
this movie, but that I didn't know if I was
supposed to take it as that because especially because she's
Mother Earth, you know, and is laying his and she
pats him, you know, like I did, kind of it
was okay. I was so when I saw that there's
a shot at the end this this episode is just

(17:44):
going to be chaotic and everyone just has to deal
with it. Like the the shot at the end where
Alan Arkin is like really slowly laying his head on
Ayisha Tyler's shoulder. Normally I would take issue with that
and be like that's creep, But then in that I
was like, well, it's Alan Arkin and i Ushoa Tyler.
Like as a static image, I'm on board. In context,

(18:07):
maybe not quite as much, but as a static image
alan Arkins head gently rested on i Ushua Tyler's shoulder,
That's a fun image. I might even commission that to
paint to paint or even as like I got a
big one of those already. I'm not one about my bead,

(18:27):
my fiance hates it, you found me to burn it,
or that they're gonna eat me. Come around, around, I
will say it. Should we do the synopsis? Were there? Yeah? Well,
real quick, our history relationship with the movie Grace. You

(18:48):
said you had only seen this one once before, right,
but you're a big fan of the first two. I
had only seen it once before it was in theaters.
Was my cousin who who passed away last year. So again,
every time I've seen this movie for the first time
with someone their debt, you know, it's just bam bam bam. Like, well,

(19:13):
I've joked about it enough that I've kind of kind
of a nerd to it, you know, but it certainly happened, Jesus,
I don't know. I'll tell you one thing. This is
a really movie related but when your family has entirely
cut you off because your trans pretty much and then
you find out a cousin instead, it's like, well, this
is pretty sad, but I have nothing to do, you know,

(19:36):
no plane tickets to buy. It's very like it's a
very chill way to find out a family member is
dead because you simply have no responsibilities, don't You can't
send flowers because you don't even know where anyone lives anymore.
It's a chill. I mean, it's bad for a lot
of emotional reasons, but it's also like if you want

(19:57):
to be able to be lazy when a family member dies,
beat rands, did you, It's like it's your text reaction
away from yes, yes, that the thumbs down I wanted to.
So I had to remind myself for this episode who
and Margaret was or she's alive, right, So I think

(20:19):
the reason that we are like, oh, everyone is horny
for and Margaret. I think that's a joke for parents.
I think it's a joke for boomers because and Margaret
was like kind of like a young bombshell in like
the sixties, So I think every parents are supposed to
be like, oh, yeah, and Margaret, she used to play
a bunch of you know, sexy roles, and so now

(20:42):
she's she's she's a grandma, but she's still sexy. But
not to Alan Arkin. It's kind of like this is
like a you know, like like a like a a
story quilt or like you know, like just an old
tone of genealogy or something, and of like just like
a story of our culture and it's a way to

(21:05):
the Santa Claus three is a way for boomers to
pass down to a new generation about how fuckable I
hand Marcrets. Back in the day, we wanted to fret,
this is something you should know and carry and tell
the future generations because it was. It took me a

(21:29):
second to be like, oh, they're free. I don't. You
can kind of like tell when I can't even really
describe what the choices, but when they're like framing someone
like an older actor, very particularly where you're like, oh,
I'm supposed to know who this is, I just don't.
And that's how they present her because you're like, oh,
Alan Arkins, that's exciting, and then like I think I'm

(21:49):
supposed to be excited about I don't know who this is.
I kept thinking it was Reba McIntyre, and then I
was like, now she's just got a good wig. Yeah,
but it's and Margaret. You know, she she does what
she can and then she's and then apparently she was
sexually harassed by the Easter Bunny. So we got a cat.

(22:10):
I think, well, okay, Jamie, what what is your relationship
with this movie? I'm not even sure. I I think
I've seen it once. I didn't see it in theaters.
I think I've watched it on TV, like sort of,

(22:32):
I think that's my history. I know that, like it
was familiar enough that I'm like, I've seen this movie.
I know the Martin short Santa Clause, but the specifics
of like the number and volume of of of plot lines,
I did not remember. So I'm pretty sure I've seen
it once on like TBS or something. Got it? What

(22:53):
about you? I've never seen this before. I did grow
up with the first Santa Clause movie, but hadn't seen
of the two sequels until just the other day when
I started prepping for this episode, so I seemed too
pretty fresh. But the main thing that I forgot about
this movie that really pissed me off and dried me

(23:14):
up was that there's no David Krumholtz. Yeah, it was
shocked by that too. I totally forgot that. And that's
just rooted in this film's refusal to evolve the cannon
and mythology of the North Pole. It entirely refuses to
just just love it, love the world it's created in

(23:40):
the last few films, and I hate that and that
like hot chocolate girl isn't there either who has been
presented in these earlier movies as this like mystical ancient figure,
you know. And then it's just like, well our head
Elf and are like Elf Sorceress just are on vocation shin,

(24:00):
you know, because they aged out of the roles because
in the Four Children Forever, but Spencer Breslyn gets to
come back. I felt bad because I was like feeling
kind of aggressive towards Spencer Breslyn. Care but I was like,
you're supposed to be the smartest Elf here and you
just give Jack Frost all the info he needs, you

(24:23):
fucking little little fool you. I mean, he looks like
a dollar store beans, you know, from even Stevens. He does.
I always forget the Spencer Breslen is not, in fact Beans, Yes,
he's not. He's not even being I mean, I'm sure
this is no, this is not personal attack on Spencer,
but I did have a very emotional reaction when his character,

(24:48):
I mean, he just can't hold a candle, he cannot
do what Bernard does, and it shows that's all I'll say. Yeah,
I mean this this film really just destroys so much
much of the mythology too. Because the Owls are presented
as like, you know, like loving what they do, being

(25:11):
so invested in the North Pole. But then when Jack
Frost takes over and just makes them be theme park employees,
it's like, oh, they're slaves, Like oh, this is against
their will, like you know, like they're just a part
of this. They're like little homunculi, you know, that are
being forced to to do this. And and that leaves

(25:33):
a taste, a bad taste in your mouth that reverberates
throughout the last two movies too. Yeah, there, it is
also unpleasant. And that was also just like a very
bizarre choice to me. I always find it really it
just feels disingenuous. Whenever in a Disney movie they make
some like point about like oh look at all this,

(25:53):
they consumerize it, and they opened a theme park. I'm like,
I'm going to need this message from literally any other
company because that's like it's just simply not going to
hit for me. So I thought that that choice and
at the why this movie is so fucking weird. I
guess we I guess we should do the recap. Yes,
let's recap. Let's take a quick break first, and that

(26:16):
will come back to the recap. Wow, the guy who
directed this movie also directed Tooth Fairy. Sorry, Dwayne Johnson,
what a weird corner to paint yourself into. He has

(26:39):
some sort of curse on him, He's got a a clause,
he's beholden to some sort of fucked up clause. And
then I feel like we this somehow might have come
up last year. But it's worth mentioning that the writing
duo that writes both Santa Claus Too and Three are

(27:00):
the same writers of There's Something About Mary and You
Can Really and also the Lizie McGuire movie, which actually,
like it was an arrow to my heart. Yeah, confusing, Well,
at very least there was a female writer on the
Lizie McGuire movie as well, so maybe she or maybe
that movie is terrible and I just don't remember, but um,

(27:20):
which is probably the case. But the yeah, Ed Dector
and John J. Strauss wrote this movie, I mean, seemingly
under duress. You have to think this movie went through
like well, I mean, it's just you know, the Santa
Claus Too is a sweet film. It's like not a
perfect film, but it's sweet at least, you know, and

(27:40):
this movie, I mean it must have gone through a
dozen rewrites. It must, it seems really, it seems like
it was like there's three drafts that all ended up
in the same in the same script. Yes, and a
bunch of people must have thrown in jokes and ideas,
because like Jack is such a mish mishmash of a
charcter that just I don't know if this will surprise

(28:04):
you too, but I have a deep, on abiding love
for Jack Frost, and I just that's not where I
saw that's going continue. I've just offended. And you know,
I'm deeply hurt by how they portrayed Jack Frost in
this movie. Well, who do you know Jack Frost to be?

(28:26):
Because I don't have a ton of context for Jack.
I feel like I have like more of an aesthetic
idea of him. I don't have a character idea of him. Well,
I'm Finnish, and Jack Frost is a big Finnish mythological figure.
I did. I did more research into it, and he's
like has his own chapter in like this thing called

(28:46):
like the or something that's not what it's called, but
really big tome of ancient Finnish poems and stuff. And
it makes sense because my Finnish grandfather used to reference
him a lot, So I feel like it's like in
my blood kind of to love Jack Frost. I just
love Jack Frost as like kind of a scamp, you know,

(29:09):
but also like in his heart heroic and I hate
I fucking just I don't understand Martin Short, and I
don't think anybody under forty understands Martin Short. So that
is the perfect hot take. I like, I like the

(29:29):
idea of Martin Short. Yes, I don't like fully get it.
When I'm gonna see a movie with him in it,
I'm like, oh, I think I like Martin Short, and
then I see it and I'm like, I fucking hated
Martin Short. In that You're like, it was like, yeah,
it was. I don't know, Like I just don't understand.
I feel like whatever it was that made Martin Short

(29:51):
the funniest person on earth is a generational like if
if you're born after a certain time, you're like, I'm
not offended and not upset. I just don't understand what
what everyone was so excited about. Yeah, he made a
wish to a genie that granted it, but it was
like he wanted to be famous. But the Genie was like, Okay,

(30:11):
you'll be famous and beloved. Not only people born in
the nineteen fifties will find you. Funny. Parents love Martin
and I like. I like Martin short. I just and
I feel like he like brings a cool energy that
like movies need sometimes and he can make a bad
movie not as bad because he just brings like commitment

(30:34):
and energy. But I don't fully get it. And also
you you brought up the next We we have covered
the Michael Keaton Jack Frost on our Patreon before I didn't.
I honestly does the Michael Keaton Jack Frost have anything
to do with the mythology? Because I was because he
was just in a band and then he and then

(30:55):
he came back okay, just making um and then there's
been a serial killer Jack Frost movie too. Yeah. I
just don't think people have enough respect for the finish
and I can think that's something that we can really confront.
That's well, Grace, I think it's up to you to
write a respectful Jack Frost film that positive Jack Frost representation.

(31:21):
There hasn't been enough of it in cinema. I agree.
The only other Jack Frost representation I've seen is Michael
Keaton getting killed on Christi's Eve on the way to
do his cover band and not just that is definitely
not the worst movie in the world. That's not gonna
cut it. I will say he was the hero in

(31:43):
Rise of the Guardians that works, Rise the Guy. Is
that an owl? A movie about owls? No? No, no, no,
no, no no no, that's The Guardians of Yeah, what's it like?
So Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Jack Frost, but they

(32:06):
all don't have this quite like like Santa Claus isn't
called Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny isn't quite called the
Easter Bunny. But they have to like rise up and
defeat this shadow demon um and and it was I
think one of Jeffrey Katzenberg's last films that DreamWorks before
he moved to Quimby. Oh RiPP Quimby rip quick. All right,

(32:34):
I think it might be time for the recap now.
I'm so sorry, Kate. No, that's that's what we're here for.
Like you said, this is this episode's chaos and that's
just how I camp. But yeah, sorry, I'm still sucking
to Michael Keaton, Jack Frost. That's whenever they bring together
the holiday mascots and wanted to be like, isn't this empowering?

(32:59):
I'm always like this is kind of like it just
feels itchy to me. And it feels like when they
try to put Cereal mascots together and you're like, I
don't I don't want this, I don't need this. They
do this in um Al Frank Bomb's The Life and
Adventure of Santa Claus, which was the final claymation adaptation

(33:20):
that Ranking Bass made. Um and that comes off that's
my favorite. I love that movie. And that comes off
cool because they're like not They're not like the Easter
Bunny and ship. It's like the like Lords of Spring,
you know, and like the the like the Nature Elves
and Mother Earth and YadA YadA YadA, and that's like

(33:41):
mythological stuff. Yeah, and then this it's like the Easter Bunny.
And then Cupid played by Kevin Pollack. My partner walked
in while I was, um, you know, taking diligent notes
about Santa Claus three, and then he went Kevin and
then walked away. I was like there, It's like, how
dare you see Kevin poll and a full on diaper

(34:07):
and they go oh Kevin and walk away. It was
just not okay with me. And we're on the relationship position.
Um he's in She's All That. I think, Oh my god, Wait,
we're recording this the day after. I'm so, I mean,
we hated She's All That. But do you want to

(34:28):
know some gossip. I'll put some gossip on the pot
and then we'll recap the movie. So okay. So it's
like Los Angeles local gossip. That's pretty draconian and evil.
So our Mayor Eric Garcetti is a terrible man. He's
the worst. And yesterday, as of this recording, he had
shut down a COVID testing site at Union Station for

(34:53):
the reason that he had like or his office or
whatever you know, office does that they had rented Union
Station to a reboot of She's All That called She's
All That starring Tiktoker's and that's why people couldn't get

(35:14):
their COVID tests today. Isn't that the most evil ship
you've ever heard in your life? For the worst reason?
Fucked up? I mean what TikToker is? Because like, if
there's some of my faves Addison Ray, has that change
your mind? Oh, She's no I'm not no, I, she

(35:36):
confuses me. I looked her up once and all of
her stuff is just about it's like one of those
YouTube families, you know, like it's but it's like just
like a single young girl talking about like, oh, this
is the boy I'm with now, and it's like, what,
why can't this is what cinema used to be, you know,
people people used to go to the movies for these worries,

(36:00):
and now they're getting them from I'm just I always
get the feeling. I'm like, I am just like I
shouldn't be here. I should get out of here. Either way,
no one should shot down a COVID testing site for
He's all That starring Addison Ray. Um, that's the most
evil ship. Anyways, shout out Kevin, Kevin, Kevin Kevin. Okay, Caitlyn,

(36:28):
we're ready to do the podcast. I guess, I guess.
I guess we'll find out what's going on with Santa
Claus three. So it's just like, do you just not
want to talk about this? Just delaying so much? All right,
I'll be I'll make this as quick as possible. We'll
see how it goes. Um Okay, So just a really

(36:50):
quick fill in the gap between Santa Claus one and
Santa Claus three. In Santa Claus To there's a new
clause that says that Santa Claus has to get married
by next Christmas, which is in like a month, or
else he can't be Santa anymore. So he ends up
falling in love with Carol, his son, Charlie's school principle,
and she becomes Mrs Claus. So that's what happens. But

(37:12):
also I realized here's a little I was but her
her maiden name is Carol Newman, which because her name
is Carol because Christ and she needs a new man,
meaning Scott Calvin a k. Santa Claus. There's a poetry
to these films, the films, it's it's very literary, you

(37:38):
know they're taking I was like, Oh, she needs a
new man, and she will leave her job for a
new man. For all the listeners out there, I really
really suggest watching these movies with a script in hand,
because otherwise you're just not gonna take it in like
you should. It's true. I felt really impacted. I was like,

(38:00):
Oh Newman, it was all it was all there, All
the hints were there. The maybe we talked about this
last year two. But that like the plot of the
Santa Claus too, is the plot to a like is
also the plot to the Princess Diaries to write like,
isn't it the same thing where like Anne Hathaway has
to get married by the end of the month or

(38:20):
the country sinks into the ocean, or like, I don't
even know what the consequence was. It's like these evil
Eastern Europeans that are always are in the well. I mean,
I thought I made note of that too, because I
was like, oh, there's it feels like there's a lot
of movies where a woman needs to get married by
a certain deadline or else there will be consequences. Because

(38:43):
Aladdin was another thing that came to mind, which Jasmine
has to get married in three days or whatever. So
I was like, okay, that's an interesting subversion that a
man has to find his wife. Yeah, and that almost
suggests that. But that he's like, you need to rob
a woman of her career in the next thirty days

(39:04):
or you're fucked, or Christmass can't well, I mean, you
know he yeah, he could have found someone who could
work from home, you know, yes, Scott, everything of that.
Jesus yeah, Well, here's my thing about that, about losing

(39:25):
her career and whatnot. She didn't have to necessarily because
she could have just been like, oh, I'm the high
school principal of the North Pole, you know, because apparently
there's kid alves in schools. But there's got to be
some like North Pole bimbo ization, because by the time
we get to the Santa Claus three, she's an entirely

(39:48):
different person. She's not sharp, she's not funny, she's not
like she's just like teaching at an elementary school. She's
not like enterprising about like what like what she wants
these kids till now and learned. Yeah, and that happens. Also,
there's like a North Pool hymboization to Scott, who like

(40:09):
become this soft, not quite as smart or wildly guy,
you know. And it even extends to the family members
after a while being in the North Pole, they're all
these soft, goofy guys, you know, and it's just it's
it's it's it's perflexing. Well to Laura, okay the way, well, like, okay,

(40:34):
we have to talk about the plot. I got so
frust I'm like Laura and Neil, are we even I
was genuinely like, why are Laura and Neil even here?
Until I saw Martin short blow, CG error and c
G I used them, and I'm like, Oh, that's why
they're here. So I can see the worst effect I've

(40:55):
ever seen in my life. That's why they're here. And Laura, okay, okay,
maybe we should start. Let's start at the top. So Laura,
I was like, I was so lost with Laura. I
was like, where is Laura's head at? I don't understand. Okay,
what happens in the movie though, Okay, so uh. Santa
Claus three opens on Mrs Claus, who is now a

(41:17):
teacher at the North Pole, and she starts to tell
her students, who are either children elves or adult elves
we don't know the forty well, they look younger than
most of the other elves. They really do did, and
especially at the end of the Santa Claus too, we

(41:40):
also see her teach alves a little bit, and those
elves look even younger. They look like Toddler's basically, So
where are these elves coming from? Where are they carring from?
I don't want to think about it, because yeah, I
don't want to know. I don't want to know what

(42:00):
my mind goes places. You know, I have ideas about
what's happening. I just don't want that to be happening.
I just broke a pen. I appreciated the cinematic restraint
in not even trying to tell me what happened. I
was like, you know what, I just thanks, thanks. Alright,

(42:24):
So she's telling them the story and then we flashback
to Mrs Claus, who is now highly gregnant. She is
about to give birth. It's like, wait, I know we
have to talk about what happens to the movie. You
know what, what if we don't? Was that anyone else

(42:46):
like really like confused by the ending shot of the
movie where it's like they're greg that they have Santa
and Carol have the huge I mean, I guess we
don't know how much longer after the baby is born.
But the baby is huge. It's like a three month

(43:08):
old baby. It's pretty big. It's about the size of
Abigail Breslin. And and and then the movie ends on
like a shot the baby frame, a freeze frame of
the baby. And not only that, but the last thing
that Santa says is like, here's buddy clock Ray class

(43:31):
here's crazy, and you're like, wait, did they not know
the name? Had they not met the baby yet? What's
what's going on? He brought because it's like, Okay, if
she's already back in the classroom, she's already had her
full Mrs claus maternity leave, I'm gonna generously assume that,

(43:52):
you know, she has good health insurance, although given the
fact that she doesn't fit in the hospital, I don't know.
But he's already back at work and she has not
yet named her baby. Is that no? I think? No, no,
no they no, no, no, no no, because she says
we named him after his grandfather. Yeah, so no, no, yeah,

(44:15):
they named it. But I'm just saying that it's weird
that Santa is like, hey, here's this information you didn't have,
even though there's like, I don't know, maybe five elves
here and every elve knows everything that happens. So but
then there's a freeze frame on the baby. The baby
almost but not quite breaks the fourth wall. Good job baby,

(44:37):
good baby acting, good baby acting. Don't look in the camera.
I think, if your baby, they'll probably be hard. But
the but then it freezes as if to be like
you're I felt like the implication was like and the
and this is the setup for the Santa Face the
next day. We've already established in in Santa Clause movie

(44:59):
Cannon that you become Santa Clause by murdering the existing
Santa Claus. So is this applying that Buddy Claus is
going to kill his father or what about Charlie? What
about Charlie? What about Charlie? And in my draft of
Santa Clause for, all of these questions are answered, all

(45:22):
these questions. I really think that you know, hashtag make wait,
I'm trying to think of a good one. Hashtag hashtag
hire Grace to write Santa Claus for. That's not a
good one, Grace to Clause for hashtag Santa Grace, Santa

(45:42):
Santa Santa Grace. And we we won't demand Disney produced
my dramatic version of the Santa Claus far no more comedy. Now,
we just like really get get to like what's behind
the characters. You know, it's about time fucking time. I

(46:05):
totally agree and think of the film less as a
sequel and more of a coda, not only not for
the trilogy, but really to our own, our own journeys
individually in regards to the Santa Claus mythos and how

(46:26):
we accept and move on from that joy wonder Wow,
I mean, where do we go from here? Every time
I watch a Santa Claus movie, I'm like, where do
we go from here? As a nation, as a culture?
Where do we go? Has anyone been keeping up with
Tim Allen's Twitter? I felt like we had to talk
about it would feel disenjoyed because we know. I think

(46:46):
we also discussed this last year that Tim Allen is
like an unrepentant Republican, like bad views bad, like we
we we we can't. He's he's there, and yet we
cannot claim him because he is bad. But the way
he He had a tweet recently, Grace, did you see

(47:08):
this one about the Communist Manifesto. He tweets very conspiratorially,
in a uniquely Boomer way where he'll just like say things,
and I think he's trying to like I think what
he's trying to accomplish as a mic drop, But you're like,
I don't know what you're saying. So so he tweeted

(47:29):
this November Carl Marks Communist Manifesto Wikipedia. That's the whole
and he spells Karl Marks wrong. He spells it with
a seat, not a k. He says, Carl Marks Communist Manifesto. Wikipedia,
I cannot I can guess what you mean. I can guess.

(47:53):
I don't know. Wikipedia throws me for loop. Carl Mark's Communist.
Like the first two, I'm like, I see, okay, where's
he going with this? There's a connection between those two things.
But then Wikipedia, I'm going Often I've often referred to
Wikipedia as the modern day I mean, it's been he's

(48:16):
I will give it. I'll give it up to Tim Allen.
A bunch of people clowned on him, and he was
he was basically like, ah, this is funny. You know,
people are like making He's like, you know, I too
don't know. And so as a punishment for him, I
was like, okay, well, let's go to Tim Allen Wikipedia,

(48:37):
which he seems to have contempt for and seeing you know,
what's going on, and he is like, he endorsed Trump
in the election, like he sucks, right. But the most
recent sentence, the most up to date sentence that seems
to be connected to these November tweets, and I honestly
didn't pursue the thread outside of the iconic tweet all

(49:00):
marks Communist Manifesto Wikipedia. But but all it says is
On November, Tim Allen published a series of tweets which
appeared to condone and endorse child labor, which I feel like,
interestingly in a horrible way, ties to the Santa Claus universe.

(49:21):
So I'm like, did the Santa Claus radicalize dem Allen
in the wrong direction? We don't know. We don't know.
We know his politics are shitty and bad, but did
they come from the Santa Claus. We don't know. What
happens in the movie, I'll tell you after this quick break, Okay,

(49:48):
and we're back. Okay. So Mrs Claus is telling a
story to the children elves. She's she's pregnant, she's about
to give birth any day now, but it's also almost Christmas,
so it's not a good time. Santa Claus is busy
with Christmas stuff. She also misses her human family. So

(50:10):
Santa is like, well, I'll bring your parents here to
the North Pole. But they have to maintain the s
O s a k. The Secret of Santa, so they
have to disguise the North Pole as Canada, so they
do that. This is linked to his magic. If the
secrets revealed, Santa loses his magic right for whatever reason.

(50:34):
But then yeah, then I struggled with the end. If
that's true, then how do you explain Alan Arkin realizing
he's father Christmas is law. I think they kill him.
I think the credits like you got to see this
majes Day and now we're gonna they just leave them
out in the cold. Alan Arkin and um old hottie

(50:59):
what was it? And Margaret and Margaret same same amount
of syllables were left out in the snow and just
just were like, oh, we saw that then, and then
they died and were buried and maybe they were given
some sort of Christmas tumb But I kind of was

(51:21):
like there was about I knew that there was no
way that they were just going to let Judge Reinhold
never come out of his ice prison. But I was like,
how funny would it be if Judge Reinhold just kind
of like stayed whatever Hans soloed there frozen and carbonite. Yeah,

(51:42):
that was also a very that was that was a
that was a special effect that turned my stomachs. It's awful.
It is a nightmare and only thing worse than them
getting frozen. Is them getting Yeah, I was trying to
figure out why I couldn't find information why David Krumholtz
didn't come back and broke my high. Was it because

(52:05):
he was on numbers? Yes, it was because he was
on numbers? Unbelievable. Numbers is taken so much from us.
I'd think David David crum Holds would have had a
film career if this fucking procedural didn't just take him
out of it for years. He could have. David Crumholtz
would have an oscar right now. If not for a

(52:28):
fucking number, you get a bit of fucking contender. We
gotta get David Krumhols back in the mix. He's forty two,
He's got a lot of career left in him. He
it really was like he could have done. I mean, honestly,
you could say, babe, he dodged a bullet by missing
the Santa Claus three. But sure, you know, but not.

(52:49):
I haven't seen a second of numbers. I just know
it's a procedural. And now I know that it took
David Crumholtz from us and gave us, gave him to
what our moms who watched Number I certainly didn't David
crumb Halls. You know, just looking at his recent filmography,
I don't know what he's like, but I feel, you know,
like later on we were like good for me for

(53:11):
having a good crush. He was in he was in
At Home with Amy Sedaris, he was in Nora from Queens.
He was in the New Twilight Zone. He's doing some
fun stuff. He was in Hail Caesar. Yeah, because he's
around on the Holtz. We we got it. We gotta
get him back. Where is he at? His presence? I mean,

(53:32):
I think it's it's fair to say his presence is
is missed in Santa Claus three true. I think the
movie would have made total sense if he was. It
would be great if in the Santa Claus for or
not we need a Santa Claus for to end the
current SOCCA. But when the Santa Claus is eventually rebooted,

(53:52):
what if David krump Holtz was in the main role.
I would love that. I think about that. I think, honestly,
we're at a point in this and then okay, let
me know if this is totally off based, but I
feel like we're at a point in this movie series
where we could kind of easily kill off Tim Allen is, okay,
I think we should. Well, let's not spoil the Santa

(54:14):
Claus for by Grace Thomas. Okay, you're right, you're right,
you're right, you're right. Um, well, Shelly, just check in
to see what's happening in Santa Claus. Three. Oh yeah,
too far into that, sure, Okay, So you know it's
a busy time at the North Pole with all of
the Christmas in the in the pregnancy or at the beginning.

(54:37):
Still five minutes into the movie, and then the Council
of Legendary Figures calls an emergency meeting to let Santa
know that Jack Frost has been trying to upstage Santa Claus. Basically,
Jack Frost wants his own holiday and he is jealous
of Santa. He resents that Santa gets all of the

(54:58):
like winter notoriety, and specifically, what he's doing is distributing
these full sized cardboard cutouts of him that have sashes
around them. That's say, Mary Frost nous. And so apparently
Jack Frost can just tell everyone like, I'm Jack Frost.

(55:21):
I exist. He's just doing this right. There's no secret
of Frost. There's only a secret of Santa. But this
is I mean, talk about frosty tips. You got frosty tips,
the frosty because the frostiest tips possible. Aisha Tyler plays

(55:43):
Mother Nature, reprising her is God. Basically, she's like God Queen.
It's so interesting that in this film God is basically
a black woman, and it is not reflected in society
at all. You know, It's just that is not reflected
at all. The world isn't different in any way. It's

(56:03):
just like, yeah, I should. Tyler is Mother Nature and
she's not doing ship for ship, She's just doing these
meetings once at all. She's always like sucked into these
horrible like political infighting between Santa and Jack Frost. It's like,
can you should be dealing with climate change but instead

(56:27):
of Nature, you think that would be her, twizy. That
is why climate change is happening because Jack Tross and
Cupid and the Tooth Fairy and Santa are always seeing
their little piss ship. And also she's the only woman
on the council. The rest of the is just like
these shitty guys, except for Father Time, who seems chill.

(56:50):
But other than that, it's just these shitty guys. It's
one of those things where you're like, Okay, of course,
like a black woman cast is essentially god and doable.
But wait, who's writing it? The writers of there's something
about mary Ah. That's where we're going to have a problem.
That's that's why we immediately see her attention turned to

(57:11):
the you know, two of the most impotent people in
the room, and it stays there, and then she's like, well,
I guess I you know, if she were allowed to
use her full powers, she could have killed Alan Arkin
at the end, but daring to rest his head on
her shoulder, she should have just like, you know, like
she could have just you know, not that that happened

(57:33):
to Alan Arkin, I don't, but she could have zeost
his ass, you know. Well, the thing about this whole
meeting is like, yeah, so Jack Frost try to like
create a new holiday and apparently only dic She also
mother Earth notes that these cardboard cutouts have only been
distributed throughout the Pacific Northwest or whatever. She doesn't And

(58:01):
and so my thing is why even call a meeting?
If they hadn't called this meeting, it would have been fine.
He did, and it was fun. That fucked everything up.
It was not meaning worthy if there was going to
be that little done about it. And I also was like, okay,

(58:22):
people should be like kind of. I appreciate the radical
empathy extended to Scott Calvin when he's like, I'm sorry, everyone,
I'm just really tired. My wife is regnant, and everyone's like, oh, oh, okay,
no problem, which is great paternity leave for Santa Claus
for sure. Yes, And they're so mean to Jack Frost.

(58:46):
I'm immediately and nearer to him because I'm like, well,
Jack Frost just wants to like have a little fun,
maybe have a little celebration of him, and they're just
so dismissive and mean, and they call him like the
best friend, not the main story. Just like so they're
so weird to him, especially when it turns out, you know,

(59:07):
he's one of the most powerful beings on earth because
he can just freeze people on a whim. I'm like,
you don't need to like participate in this council. Yes, exactly.
They're going to punish him by kicking him off the
Council of Legendary Creatures, and it's like, what does that
do to him? Then he just doesn't have to come

(59:29):
to these meetings, like good, good for him, right, are
they getting like health insurance by being a part of
this council? Like no, he can just go off and
do his own things. They're also mad at him because
I guess he like made snowfall in the Amazon and stuff,
and he froze a volcano. But that's cool, ship. He

(59:50):
should have been doing that. He should do more of that. Honest,
you can probably combat global warming also, he should. Well, Okay,
so that was a question I had at that eating
that comes up, I'm I realized, I haven't looked at
my notes in like an hour. Oh my god. So
the yeah, based on the way that he is, like

(01:00:11):
Jack Frost is introduced by Mother Nature. She says like
he set off, like he set off something like everything.
He sounds like either he's like causing climate change or
he's like the Amelia Badlia of weather, because he's like
geese are going north for the winter, and it just
sounds like everything is going on. Like the implications of

(01:00:32):
what he's doing, it's both implied that it's like catastrophic
in a global sense, but also it seems also weirdly
limited to like mall cardboard cutout it was like confusing.
My big question too, is like we never figure out
how the rest of them, more the like legendary immortal

(01:00:53):
creatures work. Is there a new Jack Frost from time
to time? You know what that's like what happens? Also,
I thought it was very funny that what he's charged with,
like what Mother Nature like reads as the charge to
Jack Frost is attempted upstaging of Saint Claus. You're like

(01:01:16):
it's a celony. First of all, like why what vested
interest does Mother Nature have in upholding that law? If
she's in charge, why is there a law against upstaging
Santa Claus? Who has beholden to that law? Is she
is she behold into that law? What kind of is

(01:01:38):
this a democracy? Like if someone puts up an incredible
like you know, like what if like you know, like
some organization is like giving kids who's whose parents are
incarcerated like like presents, does Mother Nature show up and
just be like, Oh, you can't do this, You're of

(01:02:00):
staging Saved Clas and drag them into the earth. So confusing,
Like I just yeah, that also hurt me. And then
on top of that, okay, so on top of that,
we have Carol, who is no longer the Carol we
once knew in the Santa Claus too, because she used

(01:02:23):
to be like an administrator at a school. But then
she's openly hateful towards like elf children adults in front
of them, and she's like, I just want family, human family,
Like you're just like you're so mean. They're all right there,
and then the Elves are like, yeah, we we suck,

(01:02:45):
like you're just like what are you, Carol? And I
mean she kind of just said she wanted her mom
and dad, like she didn't have to be like you
little monsters, you know, And the Elves continue to be
on her side to the point where, like, know, Santa,
who I understand is incredibly busy, I don't think he's
doing anything particularly right. Like she's also being like very

(01:03:07):
insecure and clingy kind of because she's like Santa has
to do this and that and can't hang out with
me right now, you know, and just keeps like that's
her whole thing throughout the whole movie, and it's like, well,
it's like a couple of days until Christmas, like come
come on, come on, you know, for I mean, you know,

(01:03:28):
unplanned pregnancies happen all the time, but this could this,
I mean on the one day he works a year.
I think that don't know how to do c sections,
or maybe they don't have big enough knives for humans
because the alf Fir Murray as they call it, doesn't

(01:03:49):
have a big enough for her. That does not seem
sanitary there I will say, like, there is that one
moment where Anne, Margaret and Alan Argan show up at
like where she's going to be delivering, and and Margaret
says something like she's like, this doesn't seem safe, and
I was like, wait, She's totally right, it doesn't seem safe,
not at all. These children can't performance surgery, and and

(01:04:12):
and and Carol doesn't even really fit in this room,
like she's going to run out of oxygen. Are these kids?
Are these elves children ish people? Are they just gonna
like just stare at this adult woman's gaping vagina? That's

(01:04:34):
a good question. And if so, why we're Alan Arkin?
Did Alan Arkin and and Margaret just think like, well,
I guess that's Canada, Like what were they think? Okay?
The fact that they like are in what's clearly Santa's
workshop surrounded by elf children and like are like, yep,

(01:04:55):
I believe this is Canada, Like, what's wrong with them?
They don't. I'll give them this maybe, um the Sandman's
magic like kind of altered their perspective, although you know
they didn't really go that hard, Like if they had
stepped into the wrong room, they would have seen what

(01:05:17):
was going on if they really if they really wanted
to make sure that these elves were hidden and would
just look like regular people or children, they needed to
cut the tips of their ears off too, because they
all he's like a little pointy, so they would have
had to cut their ears if they really really do this,

(01:05:38):
you know it's true, so really like, yeah, her parents, UM,
I did appreciate the I knew We're only a moment
fifteen movie, but I appreciate it. There were some choices
made in the set design of this movie that you're like,
holy shit. And I did not rewatch the Santa Claus

(01:05:59):
too to prepare for this, so I don't remember if
any of this set is carried over from the Santa
Claus to My guess is no because it was too
much time. But I have a short list of the
set design choices that really fucked me up. The first
of which is the Santa Claus Fireplace where Santa Claus,

(01:06:20):
and it looks exactly like Tim Allen Santa Claus. It
looks exactly like Allen Santa Claus. They put that in
after he after he became Santa I was horrible. It
was sickening, and and it's such a wide shot and
it's their family home, and I'm like, that is just

(01:06:41):
not Like Carol needs to like speak up about that
whole situation, because he must have had that installed, you know,
after their marriage. So that's not good. Set design I
did like was all the Canadian sets that were like
this is Canada, I promise. I was like, okay, I'm laughing.

(01:07:01):
That's fun. But the other horrifying set, I guess this
is technically prop design is frozen Judge Reinhold, I'm never
gonna get over that. That's not okay. Also, I forgot
about the room full of snow globes and I hated it.
That's all so much bad stuff. It could have been
so much more beautiful, Like you could have made a

(01:07:23):
beautiful room full of snow clouds. This was not this.
There's not even any locks on them. They could be
in like or there's like some sort of magical enchantment.
So just to remind everyone, we talked about this in
the last episode. But but this has to do I
think with the budget arc of um of of the

(01:07:46):
Santa Claus Extended Universe, which it starts, Uh Santa Claus
one budget twenty two million box office million. Santa Claus
to we, we said they over at it too much money.
Uh sixty five million dollar budget, a hundred seventy two
million dollar returns. They're like, Okay, we gotta scale it back.

(01:08:08):
But then maybe for Santa Claus three they skill it
back a little too much because the budget is twelve
million and they can barely afford to Mellen and too
like five years later or something right like twelve twelve
years after the original. So it's like, yeah, twenty two
million money. God only knows how much that was. This

(01:08:30):
is twelve million in like future money. It's not a
lot of money, and you can tell and it's just
such a and it made a lot of money. Still,
it made over a hundred million dollars. That is a
very successful comedy. You know, it didn't matter. It turns
out it didn't matter if it was good or not. Yeah,

(01:08:51):
well they got Martin Short. They got Martin Short for
five million, him Allen for six million, and then they
had a million dollars for the rest left. So like SPENCERP. Wreslin,
we're paying you in experience, Like it's oh, it's too bad. Okay.
I know that she comes in the second movie, but

(01:09:11):
I'm like, every time I see Lucy, I'm like, who
is Lucy? Lucy's there's nothing to her. Her whole stick
in the entire movie is I like snow cloves. I
love snow cloves, and that's what saves today and where
they land for her, I found the end. Okay, wait,

(01:09:33):
we should get back to the movie. I did not
like where Lucy's. Lucy's Arland very creepy and weird. So okay, well,
speaking of snow globes. So at this meeting, this meeting
of legendary figures, the escape clause gets brought up, but
Santa is like, no, that's too extreme, and that's the

(01:09:56):
thing that's the subtile I to love the movie, and
we're like, what's the escape clause? And we find out.
We find out soon after along with Jack Frost because
he's intrigued by the escape clause. We learned that if
Santa invokes the escape clause via the use of his
magical snow globe, he will travel back through time and

(01:10:19):
have the opportunity to never become Santa. So this is
an important piece of information. This is the out of
this entire movie and all of its sins. I touched
on this in the last episode. But what I didn't know, Well,
so when we were talking about the Santa clause before

(01:10:39):
I had rewatched this, I thought that he was told
about the like Santa was told about the escape clause
third film. That is not true already already, which kind
of like, why not just cut that scene, like cut
the scene where he knows about it, because that you're

(01:10:59):
just well, I just landed on being like, well, I
don't like it. But Jack Frost is just a very
you know, effective politician. Like there, well, because yeah, in
the in the first two movies, he has to learn
about the clauses. That's part of the fun and games
of the movie. But for him to already know about
the escape clause, so we don't really even get a

(01:11:22):
proper introduction of it until a while later. And then
he also he still gets tricked into invoking it, and
it's like, wouldn't you know not to say those words
because and it's like halfway in the movie where he
found Like it feels like the inciting incident happens really
far into the movie, like he finally because you're like, oh, okay,

(01:11:43):
what would get this movie started with him? The trailer
would even imply is him wishing he was never saying
the clause. But that happens halfway through the It happens
more than halfway through, happens an hour into the movie.
And here's the thing. I mean, god, you know, so many,
so any issues. But when it comes down to it,

(01:12:03):
I mean, he fucking but in the first movie, it's
made very clear that he can't just quit being Santa.
It's made very very clear. It just seems manipulative, like
since there wasn't out and I mean it really it
destroys the entire premise of the first movie. It just

(01:12:26):
it does. And moreover, you have to wonder how many
Santa's have there been? Who did just go back? You know?
How many? And apparently when you do that, you you
have knowledge of the future. So did a Santa like
go back and stop nine eleven? You know? Like Santa. Yeah,

(01:12:48):
how how how far does this power go? How can
can it? Like it spits on Santa Claus And that
was why I was personally so mad. They went back
in time and went back to the first Santa clause movie.
I'm like, that's you stay you stay away from that.
I want short anywhere near that. Scott Calvin, you know,

(01:13:11):
he retains all of his memories when the future, which
I mean, and I guess it's a fail safe to
you go back to the moment you were turned into Santa,
So you guess. I guess you have another second to
like the side, right, you could still make the choice

(01:13:31):
to become Santa again in case you change. Oh my god,
it's really mess at. Well, let's talk about what happens
for the hour before this happens, because there's a lot
of ship that doesn't make any sense. So because there's
like forty seven plotlines. Um, So, after we learned about
the escape clause, Santa goes to pick up his what

(01:13:53):
his wife's parents and bring them to the North Pole.
He also brings his his ex wife Laura, which is like,
can anyone unspool that for me? The Laura, I know,
the Laura I know would not be extremely eager to

(01:14:14):
get my ex husband, who I have like a tensely
okay relationship with at best, like my ex who I
am like co parenting with, but then I'm not going
to talk to him. The second Charlie graduates, why is
she so eager to go be like at the bedside
of his pregnant new wife. That did not make sense

(01:14:36):
to me, And I was like, Laura would never So
one thing I do have to say is they have
a much warmer relationship in Santa Claus to the like
they do. They do have a much warmer relationship and friendship.
But I totally agree her. It's so frustrating. It's just

(01:14:58):
like totally different tone and she's all of a sudden,
just like wide eyed, bushy tail Santa Claus. Oh, I
want to make a doll and and and and it
just it's what really gets to me is that Neil
and Laura are all of a sudden turned into these

(01:15:21):
totally different characters that have no grounding in reality. And
that shows how the rest of the film is not
like rounded emotionally at all. So there's no like, there's nothing,
there's nothing to learn, there's nothing to feel, you know, yeah,
like even if they do have a good relationship, I
just can't see her offering to be his new wife's

(01:15:42):
midwife out of like it just doesn't make sense to me.
And then if Lucy really wanted to go, I could
see her and Neil going with her, but I think
they wouldn't be like, oh, oh my god. They would
be like, oh, this is cool, and here's the thing.
Here's the thing. It would have been much funnier if

(01:16:06):
they were themselves. It would have been much a much
funnier movie if they were themselves. And Neil hams it
up and I was like yoga with the elves, but
that's not it. And also there's these weird just generic
East Asian music cues, are music cues the whole Neil.

(01:16:28):
I mean, I feel like that kind of follows throughout
the series as well of like a general So first
of all, there are a number of weird racist music
cues used whenever he talks about therapy and this movie.
I mean there's like a moment in the Santa Claus,
the first Santa Claus to where it's like very anti therapy,

(01:16:49):
very anti mental health for minute old because Neil is
always made out to be like this hippie who's like
trying to take care of his mental health and what
a loser. Like that whole plot, that whole like angle
does not age very well. But it was like especially
bad in this movie. It was when he was like,

(01:17:10):
let's take feelings inventory and you're like, okay, that is
like I guess what this character would say. But then
he's like using it to rationalize doing something that isn't
what his character would do. I just don't get it.
It was annoying and it's manipulative, and Neil in the
earlier films I agree they shipped on it, but they

(01:17:31):
also like let Neil be himself, and they also let
him be like a reasonable parent, you know, like he's
not he's not a villain. He's just like a guy
they kind of make fun of, you know. That's kind
of what I liked about Neil in the first movie
was like the part of what aggravated Scott so much
about Neil was that he was like a good guy

(01:17:53):
and that really loved Laura, and like that's a more
effective like emotional choice has been like making a you know,
a villain, Mary, your ex wife, is making a genuinely
nice guy who loves your ex wife be with her
like that's I don't know. I thought that was cool.
You don't usually and then they just whatever, throw it

(01:18:14):
all away, throw it all away, kissing me off another
weird thing, And I guess I understand why they did this,
but it's also like, narratively speaking, it's a weird choice
where they've shifted focus away from Charlie to Lucy. And
Charlie is barely in the third movie, and it's like, yeah,
he's a teenager that we're invested in Charlie as a

(01:18:39):
character in his growth as a human being. And then
not not only did they switch him out for Lucy,
And I mean, I would understand him taking a backseat,
but they don't hardly put him in at all, except
for the fact that he saves the fucking day in
the end, like he calls upon he apparently is in
contact with the Council of Legendary Creatures. He calls upon

(01:19:02):
them to like save the day in the end and
like help make enough toys and whatnot. So he's just
like in the background, like checking in, like okay, all right,
well I gotta make some calls, you guys, do your
little story and then I gotta like makes makes some
send some emails, you know. But the other thing is

(01:19:22):
Lucy is nothing character. There's nothing, nothing to Lucy at
all except for the love of snow gloves. I feel
bad because I'm like, okay, it's not I'm not talking
on the actor the character. I'm just like, I've gotten
I've got no interest in this character. I almost felt
like she was being used at times because they couldn't

(01:19:42):
afford to have Alan Arkin there, or they couldn't afford
to have they only had Martin Short for so many days,
like because Lucy would be used so in such like
clutch moments, usually with like a red Bull machine. I
just was like, yeah, red deer, red deer, red Deer.
I'm like, okay, I'm I've never been laughing less in

(01:20:05):
my entire life, Like then when I saw a red deer.
We've got to continue this synopsis because I have things
to say about the Red Deer magi, but I feel
like they'd be confusing if I said them now. But yeah,
Lucy as a character, I'm just like the least developed
and I'm so disinterested in her. Sorry, And she's there

(01:20:26):
and Charlie is so basically like the whole family is
now with the North Pole minus Charlie. So we're back
at the North Pole. Jack Frost has been scheming. He's
like breaking stuff, He's breaking the machinery, he's chaos is
just erupting all around them. And then he finally figures
out how to get into the Hall of snow Globes
where he goes into and sneal and steals Santa's snails,

(01:20:49):
magic snow Globes. Neil, I love it. That's that's for
all the fan people that wanted Santa to hook up
with Neo. That's what they called. There's a category on
fan fixed. Oh my god, this is such a joyless
film that they're really there. Really isn't even like I
don't even chip anyone with anyone really except Santa and

(01:21:12):
Jack Frost, just because I think it would be cool,
not because I think the movie laid that groundwork, really,
but I will say that at one point in my notes,
I wrote down, Um, the Santa Claus three is a
coming out story. The North Pool itself is gay, maybe
even trans. I'm sorry trying to like ground it. I

(01:21:44):
just think you can't. You can't you can't ignore the
fact that after the time travel menanigans, the North Pool
is basically turned into a place for Jack processing show tunes.
You can't ignore that. You simply can't. It's true. It's true,

(01:22:07):
and Baby moats Art is there. What happens makes you think,
It makes you think what happens sex. So, in addition
to like all this chaos happening around the workshop, things
are very tense between Santa and Mrs Claus and her

(01:22:27):
parents and her are like, maybe we should have never
come here, And then Jack Frost tricks Santa into saying
I wish I'd never become Santa at all while he's
holding the snow globe, which transforms both of them back
their time on the night from the Santa Claus one
when Scott Calvin kills Santa some random Santa and puts

(01:22:52):
on his suit, only this time Jack Frost gets to
it first and he puts on the Santa suit, making
him become Santa. So then Scott Calvin is transported into
this kind of like alternate timeline where he never became Santa.
He's like a corporate stooge. He doesn't talk to his
family anymore. His son hates him. Laura and Neil are divorced,

(01:23:15):
and then, like, as we've said, Jack Frost has like
commercialized the North Pole. I hate that his funk up
means that Laura has to go through additional emotional trauma.
Why does Scott rubbing a snow glove mean that Laura
has to go through a second divorce. Not not only that,
but they hint that she has like a shitty job

(01:23:36):
like waitressing or something, or working in retail because they
give her a name. Take yeah, I don't even realize.
Oh okay, so now you're like, now she's also like
poor even though her ex husband is like CEO of
toys like what the and her other ex husband is
doctor psychiatrists, like what the? It passed me up at that.

(01:24:02):
I was like, why are we punishing Like, hasn't Laura
been through enough? Hasn't Laura exhibited extreme patience with her
ex husband Santa Clause over the years? Yes, why are
we still punishing her? Are we still punishing Charlie And
I don't come on, I don't mean to rewind, but
we did skip through a lot of stuff just now.

(01:24:25):
In so so so Lucy and Lucy's parents also go
up with Carol's parents and um Santa shows Lucy the
snow glob room that we spoke of. And how you
get to the snow globe room is you turn a
couple of levers on a red deer like red bull

(01:24:47):
vending machine. Did you, guys when you were kids and
you didn't have any money and you have to wait
for your parents or something somewhere, did you guys just
press buttons on a vending machine or whatever? Because I
used to do that all the or I would take
like a common Pokemon card that didn't wasn't worth anything
and just shove it into the dollars lot and see
if something happen. They do was like, well this is

(01:25:11):
a low value card, so this is the flowers to
see if something would happen, or put a piece of
paper in there, or taking like a paper clips. I
guess like what I'm saying is I tried to rob
any machines that was never successful. I think I actually

(01:25:33):
used him a chop, but I have this crystal clear
memory of that. For some just shoving up a chop
into a you just gotta see what happens. Evocative. This
is going to be in my Memoise and throughout this time,

(01:25:56):
Jack Frost has been cleaning this information about how to
get the snow and what Santa needs to do exactly.
Um and at the same time he's just been fucking
up the whole workshop by just freezing random things around
the workshop and and creating huge fires and YadA YadA,
and no one's able to tell it's Jack Frost apparently,

(01:26:18):
because even though this enemy of Christmas is like being
punished by having to work there, no one's got an
eye on him, which is Curtis's fault again another funk
up from Curtis. Curtis is an abject failure. Like sorry,
I mean, it's like but it's it's it's it's why

(01:26:39):
elves should have basic income because if Elves had basic income,
Curtis could be fired and still have the resources that
he needed, but he can't. The only way for Elves
to survive is to do this busy work. Um. So
Jack Frost at all has also been messing with with

(01:27:01):
Santa and Mrs Claus's marriage my causing various chaos and
Carol again is just like, oh no, Santa's gotta gotta
do all this stuff and isn't paying attention to me
while there are literal fires happening. She's while all of
this is happening, while her explosions and fires and machines

(01:27:26):
going hey wire, She's like, why isn't Santa paying attention
to me? It's infuriating, especially when you consider that her
previous career was a school administrator. She's uniquely qualified to
deal with this problem, like she has a master's for this.
Carol is a totally different character. It's so frustrating because

(01:27:49):
it's like it would literally have helped the script if
she just pulled from her known skill set to deal
with the problem. But instead they're so interested in just
like making her so subservient and obsessed with her like
Santa husband. It just is so frustrating. Up, she's the

(01:28:09):
one telling this story, so she is the one betraying herself.
She's betraying herself as subservient's betraying herself is totally incompetent.
I didn't even think of that. That's and insecure and codependent.
She's the one telling this story that is brutal. I

(01:28:32):
didn't even think of that. I was like, oh, this
is all according to Carol. What if she finished that
story and Scott was in the back of the classroom
and he's like, oh my god, Carol, you're being so
hard on yourself. That would have been a beautiful way
to end it, like, and it ended up being with
her reckoning like, oh my god, I have such low

(01:28:53):
self esteem, and like it goes I'm like, wow, I'm
seeing myself all of a sudden, I'm seeing myself in Carol. Yeah,
and Santa like to an appointment with like a cognitive
behavior Alf's therapist, Neil, and then Neil is like, Carol,
You're like you have you have been present, you just

(01:29:13):
are not giving yourself. You know. He needs some self esteem.
And Carl's like, oh my god, I'm seeing it. Also
clearly cut the get rid of the freeze frame on
the baby is the last shot. The last shot should
be like her like realization, like the Carol's waken up.
I need to I need to realize my value. Yeah,
and then that's how the movie ends. That's a relatable journey.

(01:29:35):
I would be so on board with Carol being like,
I why am I punishing myself? All I've done is
my very best. I think that would have been really good,
especially if they jumped forward like a thousand years and
Carol was getting like really old, and she was giving
the commencement speech at alf University, which is the university

(01:29:58):
she founded. Is that a sister college to Santa University?
It is? It is? Yeah, it would be Alfa University
and not. I'm just just like, look at how the
al firma right. Of course, the elves need an education.
They deserve an enyation. I hope it's free. I don't

(01:30:19):
know what if the elves are in debt, they should.
I think they have a union. Do you think they've unionized?
Definitely not, because they have one. They literally work with
their god, like Santa is their god. They work. That's
like have the angels unionized? No, because their entire their

(01:30:44):
entire stick is like like just serving God, and the
elves entire stick is serving Santa. He can literally There's
multiple times in the movie where he tells the elves
to say something and then they all say it in unison.
We love this is class. After she's like, I want
a human family. These elves are are I hate them?

(01:31:06):
And I'm like, okay, first of all, those are obviously
human children, Carol. They're like, read the room, but she won't.
She I felt okay, so and then another moment because
Carol like, you're totally right, great, she has nothing to
do with the Carol we met and fell in love
with in Santa Claus too. And then there's even a

(01:31:28):
scene where I was like on Jack Frost's side yet again,
where he kind of there's like a scene where Carol
is like just blankly staring at a Christmas tree, like
blankly touching it with her fingers and just and she's
filling up a Christmas tree and then Martin short leans

(01:31:50):
in and it's like, hey, Carol, and then he basically
said a bunch of things that I agreed with, where
he was like, so, don't you regret marrying someone who
values their job more than they value you, Like, don't
you ever feel like lesser than in the way that
your husband treats you? And she was like, no, I don't.

(01:32:13):
And she's like she's like tweaking the Christmas trees nipples
the whole time, not even making eye contact with Jack
Frost as being like, no, I love I love Christmas.
I just wish my husband was would be looking at
my my jingle bell pregnancy more. I'm when is Greg
going to come and you're just I was so frustrated
with her in that scene because I'm like, that's not

(01:32:34):
the carolinea And I'm on board with Jack Frost. I agree.
My whole thing too, is that like she could have
responded like, well, I don't think he prioritizes work over me.
I think that like this is like a difficult time,
Like she could have said something that made sense for
why she wanted to stay with Scott, but also wasn't
her just being like Christmas, you know? But she simply

(01:32:57):
did not, And she even goes as far as so
like let Jack pick the Christmas tree, like when her
whole thing was like I'm going to pick this Christmas.
She's getting mowed over. It's so not fair. It makes me.
It made me sad, yeah, because I was just like Carol, like,
you're totally right, Like she could have just been like, well,
if this was a March birth, it would be a

(01:33:18):
very different story, but she's like I don't care, Like
it's just so it made me sad to Carol's parents,
not like I know that Carol's parents need to be
completely like not caring about anything in order for this
plot to work, but they also are like, okay, this
is actually a two prong question. I'm so sorry we're
about to hit the two hour mark. The I have

(01:33:41):
a two prong question, which is, first of all, I
was like, wait a second, like Alan Arkin and and
Margaret seemed to be very like I just was I
would be curious of what the discussion was when she
went home to them, was like, I'm marrying an elderly
Canadian toy maker. No, not I'm marry I'm married, Not

(01:34:02):
I'm married. They had before they had to be, but
he guilts her into marrying him at the end of
that movie. We'll talk about that grace when you come
back for the Center Claus two episode. But but but
like we're to like if you're, you know, a successful

(01:34:22):
school administrator and you're like thirties and you go home
to your parents that you say, I have just I've
already married an elderly Canadian toymaker. I just feel like
there is a bigger conversation there that we never get
a look into. And then on top of that, I
have a just a because I didn't rewatch the Santa

(01:34:42):
Claus to for this is Carol now immortal? Is that?
Like I think so I think she think, Well, here's
what I think. I think so, so think about this.
When Scott Calvin goes to the North Pole in the
first this movie, right after Santa Claus dies, he does

(01:35:04):
not meet the old Mrs Claus right now, So I
think what what must be forbid and true is that
when someone becomes any Mrs Clause, they are basically pledging
there there they're entwining their life literally in with Santa Claus,
so that when Santa Claus dies, Mrs Claus dies. I
brought this up on the on the on the other episode, Yeah,

(01:35:27):
we talked about this where I think her life force,
Mrs Claus's life force is attached to Mr Claus and
if he dies, she dies unless unless So between Santa
Claus one and two, there's what like whatever number of
years that Scott Calvin is not married, so he's allowed

(01:35:49):
he's apparently allowed to get away, so seven years that
he's not so he's allowed to get away without a
Mrs Claus for seven years until suddenly there's this other
clause where he is of the tee. There's like actually
year seven. Actually it becomes urgent. Suddenly it's very urgent.
So maybe the Santa Claus, that Scott Calvin Kills was

(01:36:11):
also just unmarried the way that he is unmarried for
seven years at the onset of Santa Claus too, that's
a possibility that we must consider. Please and thank you.
I think it's possible, but I do not think that's
the case. I think possibly so. But but that but

(01:36:32):
that is all to say, like now that she is
permanently But it just I also feel like it is
a weird movie choice, right because usually traditionally we see
Santa Claus and Mrs Clause are you know of comparable
ages visually, but to you know, preserve Mrs Claus in

(01:36:53):
carbonite as a young woman of birthing age forever her
I'm like, is she is her job to be pregnant now?
Like that? I just was like I was stumbling over that. Um,
what I'm trying to say is I find just missed
David Krumholtz. Well, No, that's an interesting point because like again,

(01:37:13):
because Tim Allen as Santa looks visibly quite old, he's
got white hair, he seems like a senior. Whereas Carol
as Mrs Claus, they don't age her up at all because,
like Tim Allen they're still technically like he's like older
than her as got Calvin, but not literally, but like

(01:37:36):
they visibly aged Tim Allen up, but they do not
age her up at all, because it's like a Hollywood
sexist thing where it's like, well, we don't want to
see an older woman on screen with our eyes gross.
We have to keep her young looking and preserve her
youthful looks. But we can age this man up as

(01:37:57):
much as we want. So yeah, and it's I also,
I wonder if Santa is in control of that, you know, well,
I mean I guess he is, Like apparently there's a
whole law about how you cannot cross him, so maybe mean,

(01:38:17):
Caitlin seven hours, Well, let me finish this recap. I'm
almost done, and then then we'll start there and then
just then that begins the two hour discussion. We will
have no um okay. So Jack Frost as Santa has
commercialized the North Pole turned it into a resort. So

(01:38:38):
Scott Calvin goes back to the North Pole, confronts Jack Frost,
who looks so frightening as Santa Claus by the way,
and Scott Calvin has Lucy help him get his snow
globe back, and then Scott tricks Jack Frost into saying
that he wished he had never he had like voice
recorded it earlier. The spell gets the clause gets reversed,

(01:39:03):
and it transforms them back to the same moment in
the first movie, where we then cut to footage from
the first movie and uh, Scott is like holds Jack
Frost back so that Scott Calvin can put on the
Santa suit and everything goes back to the way it
was with Scott being Santa Claus. And so he goes

(01:39:26):
back to the North Pole. He and Carol makeup, she
has her baby, and then that's the end of the movie.
I think you do. Gracie brought this up a couple
of hours ago, but I I do think that you know,
nine eleven should come up in this movie, and it doesn't. Well,

(01:39:51):
six that's a big cultural so it kind of does.
It kind of does because there is so when Curtis
is like, Curtis is in this little excomobile and he
comes up to Jack Frost and Jack Fross is like, so,
I have heard about this escape clause. Can you tell

(01:40:14):
me more? Curtis says, no, I can't because of the
elf Land Security Act. Oh yes, right, Oh my god,
that totally went over my head. And if we all remember,
if we all remember in the Santa Claus too, we
see that in the North Pole has a military not

(01:40:37):
just the strike team from Santa Claus one, but there's
Health Khan too, and they have there's like met military
medals and stuff. Yes, I totally forgot they militarized the
North Pole and Padel. You've gotten wonder what was there?
How many planes? How many planes? Three? Four? Nos? Four planes?

(01:41:01):
Because whatever? So was there? A fifth plane was there?
Oh my god, my gums started bleeding when you said that.
It's oh my god, there don't look at my teeth. Okay,
going on, moving, moving right along. That was the one

(01:41:23):
thing I forgot to write this down. But the part
of set design that I also found very visually striking
and disturbing was the Santa Claus plane. The North Pole plane.
Oh my god, are you okay? It happens sometimes when
I get really worked up. I just started to bleed
from from everywhere. Um, I happened with my teeth, It

(01:41:47):
happens with my nose. It happens all the time. Okay,
I'm falling apart and the plane where it's like you
get the aerial shot of the plane and it's Santa's
arms wingspans, like he's a bird who can fly. I think, okay,
could we quickly because I think we've I mean, Carol disserviced,

(01:42:10):
not the woman we met completely, just like she's and
she also disappears for so like long stretches of the
moving When Scott goes back in time, Carol is the
only one he doesn't say hi to. And also no
one knows who she is, so it's you feel bad,

(01:42:31):
You're like, okay, so no one even knows she exists
in this timeframe. That's really sad, right. They explain it
as as like because he's like where he's talking to
Laura when he goes back, he's like in the alternate timeline,
and he's like, where's Carol Newman And she's like who
Charlie's principle, I don't know she moved away, but it
would have been such a more like a stronger emotional

(01:42:53):
beat if he had gone to her and she's like,
I don't know who you are, or like I don't
heard that my student's dad who never bothers to show
up to anything. A piece of ship, Like why wouldn't
they have included them? Anyway, Here's what I think was
going on. Here's my theory. I mean, so this actress

(01:43:14):
who plays Mrs Claus, Elizabeth Mitchell, was on Lost from
two thousand, so she might have been shooting Lost and
they maybe didn't have as much time with her as
they thought they would. That's I think that. My guess
is that happened with a lot of actors in this
movie is they didn't have a big enough like The
Santa Claus three doesn't have a better budget than Lost.

(01:43:37):
So if Elizabeth Mitchell is like, well where am I
gonna go, She's gonna go with Lost and not The
Santa Claus. My guess is that maybe maybe maybe maybe
Ed Dector and John J. Strauss don't come on the pod,
but like let us know, you know, like I would
bet that maybe she was supposed to be more involved

(01:43:59):
and then maybe I don't know, that's maybe Hollywood should
learn a little fucking loyalty. You know. She should have
been like, fuck you, damon Lindelof, I'm going to buy
a Mrs Claus and I'm going to be so pregnant.
That'll show him and that will show him. But one

(01:44:21):
other thing, one other thing, one just one do you
can only get one more grace. I just thought, you know,
if I was Carol's parents, like just taking in what
I've been told is Canada, I'd be like, well, this
obviously is in Canada, and my son in law is
running a human trafficking This is obviously some sort of

(01:44:47):
like child trafficking thing. These child little like indentured servants,
Like this is horrible. We need to call someone. It's very,
very dark, like the Elf situation. I feel like I
I try, I have to almost suspend my disbelief and
be like I think that we're supposed to think. I
can't get too deep into it, or I'll start to cry.

(01:45:08):
It doesn't, it doesn't. Something's not right there, not right there.
And now Jamie's Jamie's comes are just gushy. Are your
eyes bleeding? Are you bleeding from your eyes? It just
burns the blood vessel in my eye because I thought
too hard about the Santa clause. Again, it happens to

(01:45:31):
me all the time. This is just where we're at
at this point in the year. But but speaking to
the Elves, Spencer Breslyn's character sucks so much. He's supposed
to be the best self. As we've said, he's not
the best elf. But the way that he displays that
he's not the best elf is that he gets into
this weird like masculinity like superiority contest with Martin Short,

(01:45:57):
where Martin Short dupes him so easily, Like, I bet
you don't even know what this really specific law is
its presents, Like are you serious? Of course I know
what this specific law is. Here's this specific law. Fuck that, um,
But let's talk about Lucy really quick, because we didn't
really end up getting to Lucy. Here's my question, why

(01:46:21):
do Why am I supposed to care about Lucy? You're
not even I don't care about Lucy, and I feel bad,
but I also don't know's got to be a deleted
scene too, because like, so yes, it's Scott fixes it,
he's Santag and Jack Frost. It has been subdued, and
the Council of Legends, as we said, has been called

(01:46:43):
by Charlie um and and they're mad at Jack Frost. However,
Lucy's parents, Laura and Neil, are still frozen, and Jack
Frost says, I can't unfreeze them because to unfreeze, I
would have to unfreeze myself, which I don't know what

(01:47:08):
in the moment, I don't know what that means. Jack
Frost is a fucking elemental afagar of ice. I laid
on the floor when that happens, like that, hid the
movie ends in five minutes. What do you mean? What
are you talking about? And then Santa gives Lucy a

(01:47:32):
nod and it's like, you know what to do, as
if they've discussed this a point of the movie, which,
if so gross does and she goes up to this
villainous man and gives him a big hug, which thoughts

(01:47:53):
him this disgusting way where his skin starts to he
starts to melt. And as this happens, he he he
gives out moans of pleasure. This girl is holding him
because like just he's moaning in pleasure, and he's like,

(01:48:20):
who I smell sunscreen? You know like that? And then
he speaks Spanish. He speaks Spanish, and he's done this.
He's been my cake compadre before and this is like
a Martin short dag that he brings into all of
his fucking roles from like the three of me goes onwards.

(01:48:43):
He'll just break in a Spanish sometimes and it comes
home's pretty weird and races. I guess like it just
is out of my field, and it feels like it's
like the joke is that he's speaking Spanish, and I
feel like if they joke because that you're speaking another language,
that's not great. The worst part is social. After she's

(01:49:04):
done hugging him and he's continuing to melt or unfreeze,
I guess this is the word in this world, not
melt unfreeze. He goes, I don't know, how could you
do this? And she goes, you didn't know about the
power of magic hugs. Because of that, she has that power,

(01:49:27):
not just a regular power. Can I keep going because
I think per magic hugs? And what happens? Skin open?
As yes, she wrecks his skin open. He moans in pleasure,
and as soon as he's unfrozen, he's suddenly in a
white suit. His skin is normal. But worst of all,

(01:49:52):
he's got like this comb over thing going on. He
no longer has his hair frozen bag, which is like
perfect hair for Barton short. He's just got regular hair,
which makes him look like an adult child, just a
real fucking weirdo, like a little fucking like disgraced pastor,
and he just it's disgusting, Like what happened is not

(01:50:17):
just disgusting, it also is like kind of set up
too much in a way. That because in an earlier
scene Lucy, like Santa brings Lucy into the Hall of
snow Gloves, which is like the hall of photoshop floating snowblooks.
But in that scene, Lucy grabs the snow globe that

(01:50:38):
she's like, oh, it's my snow globe. And then you
zoom into this snow globe and it's a tinier Lucy
and she hugs a snowman and the snowman turns pink,
foreshadowing Yeah, and then Scots like you have those magics,
Scott set up. I just didn't fucking catch it. I mean,

(01:51:00):
this poetry, it is, it is there is what the
thing about this? This it's like any given the Santa
Claus movie is a million word poem, right, because you
got the dialogue, but you've also got all the pictures.
And if a picture is worth a thousand words, and
this must be a million word poem. This is not

(01:51:21):
a good poem, but it is a poem, and there
is it is the fact that that Lucy has magical hugs,
which is a creepy set up. The creepy payoff is
set up with a creepy setup. I hate it. I
wish that, like Lucy doesn't need to be there, you
can cut out that whole. I get like we want
to bring Laura and Judge Reinhold back into it, but

(01:51:42):
like you could have gotten rid of them, especially if
you're getting rid of Charlie to Like, what's the point
of bringing that back? I mean, when you think about it,
what this movie is is really a climate change origin story.
Because Okay, I'm listening to all of a sudden, Jack
Frost doesn't ust anymore. The man who summons winter is

(01:52:04):
just gone. We don't know. Also, is he gonna diet
now that he's lost his ice magic? Is he not
an immortal anymore? Has this? Has this little girl damned
him to hell? We don't know. Are these more questions
that you will answer in the Santa claus For? Perhaps
the Santa claus For is actually kind of a bottle episode.

(01:52:31):
It all takes place at the hospital. Good I don't
want to spoil anything else, but he don know if
Bernard isn't there, I'm gonna scream, I'm gonna lose it.
I'm gonna bring there's gonna be consequences if Bernard's not there.
All right, we need crumb Holt available because we know

(01:52:56):
mentioned Martin short kind of randomly speaking Spanish in ways
that displayed as a racist joke. Let's not forget the duck,
the toy duck that speaks three languages. The duck says,
l Duco says QUACKO. L duck says quack and ill
duck says quack. A. So it's I guess it's Spanish,

(01:53:18):
French and Italian. But it's just like, are you fucking joking?
L ducko says quacko. That to me, that was just
horrendous writing. That was just like the worst word, Like
you couldn't translate three sentences. That wasn't the duck says quack.
Also that the logic of that toy doesn't even make sense.

(01:53:39):
Why would you want a duck that when you squeeze
it, it it says hi, I'm a duck, I say quack.
That doesn't even make any sense. Yeah, that was that
was like that was a very two thousand they're like
I want a duck that says, yeah, that wasn't that
was ridiculous. I didn't like the music cues that were

(01:54:03):
like lined up with Neil that was really two thousand
six in an unsavory way. It's just there's there's just
so much of this movie you're just like, what is
fucked up? And what is just horrific writing? And sometimes
it's both. Are all the elves white? No? There there
you do see some non white elves scattered, but they're

(01:54:25):
not they're rarely given any lines. Ifever, they're not prominently featured. Yeah,
definitely not. There's there's more people of color and this
movie than is in the Santa Claus One, but not
in meaningful roles. Because even when it's like Aisha Tyler
is God, but still they don't give her anything to do. Uh.

(01:54:46):
Kind of the same thing with the Sandman. Who is
that guy from Star Trek What is his name? He's
like a star Trek legend Michael Dorn. Yeah, he's like
he's a Star Trek legend and he plays the Sandman
and he's like he's in one scene and it's like,
I get the movie is not funny, but it's supposed

(01:55:08):
to be funny, but then he never comes back and
so it's just like it's just an empty husk of
a fucking movie. It sucks. We didn't even talk about
how the whole opening sequence is like Mrs Claus going
into labor just kidding and then everyone's mad at her happen.

(01:55:29):
One of the albums is like I canceled that patticure
for this, which just threw so many opportunities for interesting
relationships between women. There were like more opportunities for like
let's give motherfucking nature something to do, and it just

(01:55:50):
like it just doesn't happen. It just never happens. And
with Carol, like we we were talking about how she
the way that she's characterized in Santa Claus two is
completely undone, and she's made to seem, you know this
like codependent, you know, kind of there's a bunch of
weird stuff going on there. I do want to give
I'm hesitant to dump too much on her just because

(01:56:12):
like she has every right to like expect things from
her partner, even if it is like busy season at work.
But like sure, yeah, it's the way, but the way
it's written, the ways written He's like, there's no nuance
to it. It's just like a fucking mess. Nothing makes it,
And she's just like, if I'm being honest, I also

(01:56:33):
don't think that the writers just knowing that they're the
same writers, as there's something about Mary. I don't think
that they are like, oh, it just didn't read for
a lot of people that she actually does deserve better. Like,
I don't think that they are thinking that hard about
her character, which is why I felt like a little
more comfortable dumping on it, because I'm like, these these

(01:56:54):
writers have demonstrated time and time again that they don't
really care about how they write female characters at all. Totally.
Is there something about Mary not like a cool feminist movie? Oh? Sorry,
I should have it actually really is? And so I
say that because I'm like, well, nothing they wrote could

(01:57:14):
compare to the we gave it five nipples across the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I agree. I mean, Carol very clearly deserves better. But
I don't think the writers think that. Yeah, for sure,
they're just like wives are naggy, right, wives are like
always just like, why don't you spend more time with me? Yeah?

(01:57:37):
In the second movie, they did have her as a
fully realized character who like maybe unreasonably made a decision
in the end to throw her life away for that.
She like she like, you know, was this like principle
who had like a personality and whatnot. And now they're
just like, well, now she's not woman, she's wife. No

(01:57:59):
longer wife now, you know, right, Like being married makes
her suddenly deeply uncomplicated, obsessed with reproduction and the attention
of her husband. Like that, That's where I thought those
writers were at. I just didn't think they were trying
to build a nuance for sure character. She definitely deserves better,

(01:58:20):
and I see, like, obviously, if you're eight months pregnant
year round, you're gonna like need some assistance, and you
deserve some assistance from your partner. But they're just like
I don't, I don't, like they're thinking, no, no, no,
they're not. There was a game Boy game for this.
What there's a there's a I'm sorry, I was just

(01:58:41):
like going through Wikipedia. Let me double chat. There are
no game Boy Advance, game Boy Advance in two thousand six,
there was a game Boy Advance game. There's a play
through on YouTube that I'm scrolling through right now. You're
playing a Santa in some scenes, but then two thirds
of the way through the game, much like the movie,
you become Tim Allen in a suit, and I think

(01:59:04):
you just played through the plot of the movie. I
think that's all you do. Incredible. Well, it sounds like
a great game. Then, since this movie took good I
feel so bad for Alan Arkin to have to have
been in this movie. I feel really bad for i
should Tyler. I think that the Tooth Fairy wishes he
was Robert de Niro. Um the Easter Bunny is scary.

(01:59:26):
I'm just reading through the three notes that I took
for this movie. Wasn't expecting the anti capitalist message, but
like you said, Jamie, it feels extremely hollow coming from
a Disney movie. Right. I'm just like, okay, cool, So
did you not want me to pay you eighteen dollars?
And that's what annoys me is when hyper capitalist companies

(01:59:46):
are like what if I made an anti capitalist message?
And I'm like, well, fuck you. I don't know, I
just it makes me. I know that it makes me. Man.
I'm just like, okay, cool, but like you still, oh sorry,
do you not want me to go to your theme parks?
Like what are you saying? This was Disney being like
all other theme parks are that ethical theme parks under

(02:00:13):
capitalism are Disney World. That's how that's the new that's
the new phrase, which is so such bullshit because it's
the second you even step foot within like twenty miles
of Disneyland, they're trying to upsell you on everything, which
is like what happens at North Pole, the theme park

(02:00:35):
in the movie. So it's just like, what are you
talking about? Disney? There's this? And then but I do
I did maybe I was just so emotionally exhausted at
this point. But at the end where Alan Arkins says,
so your father Christmas, which means and he keeps like
really milking it, and he's like, so that means that

(02:00:57):
I'm father in law Chris Smiths and then and then
the movie pauses for laughs, which is never a good
sign when the movie like building time for you to laugh. Oh,
it's not good. But doesn't that mean he has to die? Then?
Oh he must die? You knew the secret. I think
that I think that father Christmas in law would have

(02:01:21):
also just been a funnier string of words. That's my
personal opinion. I mean this fucking that. That exchange takes
like thirty seconds. It's so poorly edited and long. It's
really long. It keeps cutting back to Tim Alan and
it's like, m I don't really care how he reacts,
but that means they have to kill Alan Arkin Grace

(02:01:42):
Like they keep repeating s os, do you guys think
Alan Arkin is a cool guy in real life? So
so I just feel like I'm not saying he's a
bad dude, but he's kind of out one mode and
it's like cranky dude. I don't know, maybe maybe that's
not his in real life mode. But I always wonder

(02:02:05):
when guys, like when actors only have one mode? Is
that because maybe I mean that's Tim Allen, Right, that's
Tim Allen. That's what I mean, Karl Mark's Communist manifesto Wikipedia. Wikipedia.
That's what if? What if they cut do okay over
the shoulder shot of Scott Calvin Santa Claus. He's making

(02:02:28):
unless he's checking into twice, but all it says it's Wikipedia,
ver and over and over. I think you have a
five to ten k like meme on your aunts. Jake, Alright,
I gotta I gotta get out of here. My friends
I got, I got Sarahton into Chase. Does anyone we've

(02:02:53):
been recording for a hundred hours, does anyone have any
other thoughts feeling? I have a few? Can I just
read off some notes? Okay, I'm just gonna start from
the from the top, which might include something that I've
already said, but I'm just going to read them off.
How are new elves made? They're all kids? Have a

(02:03:14):
Gail Breslin. If Mrs Class is teaching elementary school, then
who's teaching high school? Huge? Tim Alan Santa fireplace in hospital?
Not just Santa tim Alan Santa Dollar Store? Beans is back?
Why doesn't the al firm al Firm have a human ward?
If elves are not born but made, what do they
think of pregnancy and birth? Is the child elf doctor

(02:03:38):
going to pull the baby out of out of this spots?
I think the reindeer are very ill all the time.
They are. They're party. They are full of slime and
so very sticky and what this whole movie has a
much less down to earth feel, very truly weird music
and it's more goofy tone makes Lucy's whole deal. I'll

(02:04:00):
just not stand out. They they hate Jack Frost because
he's gay. Jack is simply more messy than naughty. But
more than that, he understands how the world works. Jack
could have singlehandedly killed Santa with one breath. No, but
the legendary figures can't use their magic on each other.

(02:04:22):
Remember this is that's true, but until the end of
the break the law. Break the law. At this point,
I think it's it's not like a legal thing. It's
like they physically cannot do it physically. There's just so
many different types of laws in this world. Okay, Also
very important, why is Jack obsessed with with asking random

(02:04:44):
people to be his elves? He does just very awkwardly,
like shoe horning, you beat my elf, and that just
doesn't make It doesn't make any sense, especially because he's
got this plot to just be um Santa. Because he
asks some of the already existing elves, then he asks

(02:05:06):
Lucy the human Child, and then he and then he
also he also asks and Margaret in like a sexy
seductive way. He's like, will you be my elf? And
she's like, but it's like, what is your game, sir?
There should be a there should be a spinoff of

(02:05:26):
the Santa Claus through the Escape clause. That is just
more Jack's like Jack Frost, Jack Ship, Jack Dawson from
Titanic Jack Dawson. Have you guys considered like what if
this movie had made a billion dollars, would have had

(02:05:49):
Like you can't say that like this was before Iron Man.
We could We could just have a bunch of like
Christmas movies throughout every year and different like legends and
whatnot and not not superheroes. I don't know if imagine how. Yeah,

(02:06:10):
the world would be so different it hurts. It hurts
to think about would you prefer that world or the
one that we currently have or if you didn't, if
you didn't know what that question, if you didn't know
what that world was like you just knew it was different.
Would you take a chance and jump into it? Oh? Fun, Yes,

(02:06:32):
yes I think so, and I would be Would I
be disappointed? Yes? Would I regret it? But would I
have what I have tried? Much like being Santa's wife.
I would give it a good six months just to
see and then I would escape clause myself. Okay, that's
what I was just gonna say. The movie should be
about Mrs Claus having the opportunity to invoke the Escape

(02:06:57):
clause should her story, The Escape should be divorced, because
she's given up, She's sacrificed everything in her life, her who,
like her family, her career, like all this stuff. She
probably has some regrets. This movie would have been so
much better if it had been about her and her
journey and her deciding whether or not she wanted to

(02:07:20):
escape this life, or if maybe she maybe, through this
journey she learns that it is worth it after all.
But that would have been so much more compelling. I
don't give a shit If Scott Kelvin wants to not
be Santa anymore, I don't care well. And also Santa Never,
like Scott Never really doesn't want to be Santa exactly.

(02:07:40):
It's not like It's a Wonderful Life where he's like
really like, I don't want to real life anymore. I'm
going to drop off. You know. He doesn't do that
perfect perfect no nuts. If this was just like a
beat for a beat redo of It's a Wonderful Life
with Santa Claus, it would have been up my better movie. Yeah,

(02:08:01):
and I hate It's a Wonderful Life. And I know
I'm alone in thinking that, but I think that movie
sucks and I don't find it charming or good at all.
There I said it. I don't feel strongly either way,
but oh I feel about it's a wonderful life. I've
seen it. I'm like, yeah, that was nice, and that's
all I have to say about it. And then my
head exploded in blood, which is you know, want to happen?

(02:08:25):
All right? Does anyone have anything else? We have to stop?
So the movie sucks. I wish I could invoke an
escape clause from ever having seen this movie. Yeah, get
me the funk out of this movie. That would be
my review. Here's my review. If I was a film
critic and writing like like an article, like a review

(02:08:47):
and a publication, I'd say Scott Calvin wishes he had
never become Santa at all. I wish I had never
seen Santa Claus three at all. I I think that
what we've done here tonight is better than the Santa

(02:09:08):
Claus three, and it did not cost twelve million dollars
and it was twice as long, and it was twice
as long. I just would like to say just one
more thing, Please, please, please, Grace, you get one more thing.
The easter. Boddy openly ships some before workshop he's helping

(02:09:32):
on Christmas Eve. Yeah, he's like, sorry, sorry about the pillets,
I'm leaving beyond I blocked that out. You're totally right,
so we do. We see him both shipped on the
floor and hit on and Margaret in the bloopers in

(02:09:53):
front of children, so we don't have time to really
unpack the bloopers, but I highly recommend you watch them.
Does this do we know? Does this movie pass the
back I think there might be like a few like
stripping away all the context lines that pass, but a
lot of the context of conversations that do happen between

(02:10:14):
women or like between Lucy and her mom or Lucy
and another character, I feel like they're almost always about
either Santa Claus or maybe Jack Frost. Like there's a
lot I think men. I honestly, I also forgot to
pay attention at all, so I do not know. But
if I'm kind of just like going back through the

(02:10:37):
scenes in my memory, it feels to me like a
lot at least like the subtext is about a man,
if if not explicitly about a man, I completely believe that.
I mean, even if this movie does technically pass the
backtel test, I don't deserve to. Okay, Okay, it doesn't.
I've agreed with you. Even if it does, it's just

(02:10:58):
like spiritually it definitely doesn't. Even if it does, it
somehow doesn't. Final ruling, I'm judge Reinhold. Wow, yeah, incredible.
So yeah, let's say a no for this one and
don't fact check us, please and thank you um. As
far as the nipple scale zero to five nipples based

(02:11:21):
on an examination of intersectional feminism, I'll give this a
half nipple for the few characters who do pose the question,
including Abigail Breslin and Jack Frost, who are like, Hey,
isn't it pretty fucked up that you gave up everything
in your life? And don't you wish you hadn't done

(02:11:42):
that maybe? Or don't don't you feel kind of cheated?
Or you know, something like that. So I appreciate that
the question gets asked, but it seems like it's mostly
asked to bully her. So I I it's there's so
many asked with every almost good thing that happens. There's
five an asterisks of like, but it was actually made too.

(02:12:02):
It was said to make her feel horrible about her
life the start, like the first like ninety seconds of
this film we're written by someone entirely different than the
person who wrote the rest of it. Yes, I believe,
I believe it. Like it's this is like even though

(02:12:23):
there's only two credited writers, there were there were Make
Make Yourself Seen other writers on the Santa Claus three.
It doesn't seem like the It's consistently bad in three
different ways. It's like there had to have been other
people involved that were like, they wrote one bad movie
about Jack Frost, and then the other people wrote a
different bad movie about Mrs Claus, and then they wrote

(02:12:45):
a different bad movie about maybe like Laura and Neil,
and then they just missed it, mashed it all together.
And it's something we haven't talked about, and I really
think we would be a mess if we didn't talk
about it. Is. Of course, of course, there's maybe the
worst musical number in all of film in this movie,
Oh my God, when Martin Short Yes and Jack Frost

(02:13:09):
Santa north Pole. There's this Santa Claus show. It's just horrible.
He does this riff on I'm leaving New York, New York,
but it's like north Pole, North Pole instead of New York,
New York. They don't even have a full fucking orchestra.

(02:13:33):
I fast forwarded through it. I couldn't watch it. I
truly blocked that out. But you're totally right that happens.
I think it could have been so good. It could
have been a moment that almost saved the movie. You know,
it really could have been beautiful. I don't like I
watched this movie six hours ago. How am I like

(02:13:53):
here not knowing that? This movie really does a number
on your neurons? It really scrambles months. Are they bleed?
Are your neurons bleeding? Jamie in my norouble? Did you
see there? My ears are bleeding? I just have this
thing wrong about me. Where whatever Christmas movie I watch,

(02:14:14):
I keep all of those memories forever, And even if
I imagine them as pieces of paper that I throw
into the fireplace, the ashes that come out, I see
the memories play out in them, you know, forever. Please
say that motif is in Santa Claus for that dark

(02:14:40):
in the Sta clause for and that the fireplace that
you throw your memories into is the same fireplace in
Santa Claus's bedroom, tim Allen's Mouth, tim Allen's Mouth fireplace
and Judge Reinhold Frozen are two of the most cursed
Christmas images of our John a ration right up there

(02:15:01):
with the baby Grinch, and it's just and do we
have what else? Is there anything else we need to
touch on? Oh? I was in the middle of my
nipple rating, so yes, sorry, go ahead. I'm gonna give
this a half nipple, even though it's more than it deserves.
But I will give it to Ayisha Tyler and that, Yeah,

(02:15:22):
that's the end. I'm gonna I can't give this any nipples.
I want better for Ayisha Tyler. I want better for Laura.
I don't remember where the actress's name is. I want
better for Mrs Claws. I don't Unfortunately, I don't really
care about Lucy. I want better writing for Lucy so
that I do care about her. I want David Krumholtz back.

(02:15:46):
Is the most important thing is what How could you
possibly think that this movie was going to succeed narratively
without Bernard the Elf? It just would it would never happen.
Zero nipples, um sexist, It's weird, and it's just a
it's just a god awful movie. I hope I usuedd
Tyler made a whole bunch of money because otherwise not

(02:16:08):
worth it. Yeah, it's zero nips, what about you, Grace?
How many nips am I able to give it? Uh?
Five is technically the maximum, but you know, get you know,
speak your truth. I am going to give it four
and half nips. And the reason and the reason is

(02:16:31):
because Mrs Claus basically has a home birth and we
we we don't really see that on film. You know,
we don't really see that on film. And that's empowering,
I think, and I think it shows women that that
can be done. So yeah, I'm going to give Mrs

(02:16:52):
Clause two nipples and then I'll give the other nipples
to the elves that made the home bird happen. And um,
I just think that that's really inspiring. And I agree,
and I have elucidated why I think this movie is
misogynistic and horrible. Definitely what we need more home birth representation,

(02:17:17):
and so for that, I think it does deserve four
and a half nipples. I see what you're saying. I'm
going to change my nipple raining to negative four to
to balance out the average. I'm so sorry to do
that to you, Grace, but I need the average to
be kept low. So what you have just ensured is

(02:17:37):
going to happen is that Grace is going to take
us to court again and and then we're going to
be back here doing Santa Claus June next year. Darning,
that's what's gonna happen. I've got my lawyer on the
line right now. He's actually been my lawyer. I'm sorry,
my lawyer. She she it's been listening to this entire podcast. Wow,

(02:18:03):
well tell her we don't have a lawyer. We can't
afford one, so you will be back. This sounds good, great,
Thank you someone for being here. This is my favorite
tradition and now it's officially a tradition now it is.
And we were maintaining the tradition of doing a Christmas
movie trilogy with doing the first movie first, the third

(02:18:27):
movie second, and the second movie third, because we are
doing the same thing with a Christmas prince. So this
is a time honored tradition. Um. Yes, Grace, thank you
so much for being here. You're a delight. Where can
people check out your stuff? Follow you online, et cetera. So,

(02:18:47):
I mean my big thing is at Grace G. Thomas
on Twitter. Um and uh, and Grace's podcast is going
to be so fucking good. Jamie is the first guest
on the first episode and will be a guest very soon.
Uh and we um. It's called compete. Let me tell

(02:19:08):
I'll pitch this. Okay, everybody, it's called competitive literature. It's
me and my co host Julie Greener or Julie g
It's me and my co co it's competitive. It's called
competitive literature. Myself, Grace Thomas, and my co host Julie Greener.

(02:19:29):
Each week have a guest who picks one of their
favorite books that we have a week before the podcast
to read it, and then on the cast, the guest
judges who has the best opinions on the book UM
and picks a winner. So the first episode that we're
doing is on a series of Unfortunate Events. It was
with Jamie. It's gonna be killer. It's coming out in January.

(02:19:53):
I'm super super excited for it. Um. We talked about
if the authors are fucked up, we have the guests
give a a little bit of a pop quiz. We
uh go through the whole book. I'm super psyched. We're
gonna have my fiancee's dad on it. Um, who's a
cool weirdo talk about his favorite book, the favorite book
of all dads nowadays, Sapiens by You've all Noah Harari. Um. Yeah,

(02:20:17):
I hope you guys check that out. Um and just
follow me at Grace ge Thomas for more updates on that. Um.
In addition to that, my KOFE is like kofi dot
com slash Grace Thomas and I am launching a new
monthly thing on there soon where I'll do one monthly
video exclusive to people who are subscribing to that. So

(02:20:38):
I think I'm gonna switch from Patreon a kofy soon
and do that. Um. And yeah, I just check out
my videos and whatnot, uh and subscribe to Competitive Literature
soon when we release our trailer. And yeah, I just
keep talking and talking and talking. I have some books
coming out next year, but none of them are announced,
so you gotta follow me on Twitter com back all

(02:21:01):
the foks. Yeah, it's pretty messed up. Talk to email
my editor. Well, you got a lawyer and an editor.
He's a really good guy. Actually, my editor is a
very nice man. I have no problems with him. It's
just how the production schedule works. He's not doing anything wrong. Amazing. Well, yes,

(02:21:21):
check out all of Grace's stuff. You can follow us
on on Twitter and Instagram at Babolcast. You can subscribe
to our Patreon aka Matreon. It's five dollars a month
that gets you access to two bonus episodes every month.
And because it's December, we are doing as our bonus
episodes this month. Christmas Prince too, Yeah, and Princess switched

(02:21:44):
to Switched again. K three Princesses a K three three many.
Vanessa Hudgens is three events, yes, and this is her.
This is I believe her first movie post cancelation. So
there's gonna be a lot to talk about. When do
you remember when Vanessa Hudgings went live and said she
had no regard for human life? That was this year

(02:22:05):
and now we get to talk about it on the
Matrion and that's where and that's where that will be.
I think that was a pretty fun way for her
to get canceled all around. I was just like, I
guess that was just a blanket, like I don't care
about anybody, goodbye, whoever lives and dives. I don't care
as long as my carnal need for pleasures. Where's the

(02:22:30):
merch where's the merch that Well, speaking of merch, you
can buy ours at the public dot com. Slash the
Pectel cast and that's I mean happy Santa Claus with
Grace Thomas episode Everybody You Earned It. Also hashtag Santa
Grace and tell Disney yes what you feel. And the

(02:22:59):
last thing I'll say is I wish I'd never become
Santa Claus at all. Bye bye bye m hm.

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