The Sound of Music with Nelini Stamp

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Attention Bechdel Cast listeners, especially those who lived in the
UK or Ireland and or anywhere that you could easily
get to either of those places.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
We're going on tour, baby, and it's not just any tour.
It's the Shrek Tannic Tour. That's right. Shrek and or
Titanic are the movies recovering on this tour at the
demand of us, and you question mark, see you there,
We'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, you might have heard other episodes where we've talked
about Titanic or talked about one of the Shrek movies,
but you're in for some surprises on this tour. We're
gonna be doing stuff you haven't seen before. There's gonna
be games, there's gonna be clips, there's gonna be costumes,
there's gonna be all kinds of new and interesting and

(00:55):
exciting things. It's a spectacle.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's gonna be fun. It's a celebration of the movies,
but it's also just a celebration of the show and
the Bechdelcast community. We've never done a full tour across
the Pond before and we're very, very excited to come
and see everybody. So hopefully, if you're in the area,
you can make it. It's during the spring. We're gonna have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Our first leg of the tour is in London on
May twenty second. There are two shows that night, a
six point thirty show on Shrek and a nine o'clock
show on Titanic.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Next, on May twenty fourth, we are going to be
in Oxford as a part of the Saint Audio Podcast Festival.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Then we're scooting up to Edinburgh. On May twenty sixth
we are covering Shrek.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Then on May twenty eighth we are in Manchester once
again covering Titanic.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
And finally a show that we recently added in Dublin
on May twenty ninth that is also a Titanic show.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
We're so excited to meet everybody. We chose two of
our favorite movies so that we can celebrate the community
and just have a good time. So please come out.
You can get all of the tickets over at our
link tree, which is in the description link Tree slash
Bechdel Cast, and we hope to see you there. We
have such ridiculous outfits, oh my gosh, and exclusive merch

(02:22):
and everything else, so you.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Don't even know how many videos I've edited for these
shows to screen. I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Thank for everyone to see incredible flex.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Thank you all right, we will see you.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
There, see you there.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph
and bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Thes are alive. Wow, my beautiful singing force with us
sound well, the sound of podcasts, of.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Course, can you imagine? I mean, that's a real dystopia.
If the hills are alive with the sound of podcasts,
that is like, so I would be so scared, And
this is my job, and I cannot advocate for a
world in which the hills are alive with the sound
of podcasts. That's a dangerous world. That's a slippery slope.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
That's dystopia for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, that's hell. The hills are alive with the sound
of podcasts.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
In hell, Hell is alive with the sound of podcasts.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Ed boy, is it welcome to imagine that? I quite
liked that opening up. Okay, welcome to the Bedel Cast.
My name is Jamie loftis.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
My name is Caitlin Deronte, and this is our show
where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point something
to inspire larger conversations about representation and things of that nature.
But Jamie, what's the Bechdel test though?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well? The Bechdel test is a media metric created by
Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test because she
co created it with her friend Liz Wallace. Originally appeared
in her Amazing comics collection Dikes to Watch out For
as a joke pointing out how not just how how

(04:23):
infrequently that's the word I was looking for, how infrequently
women talk in movies, but how infrequently queer women appear
in movies at all. Yes, this later became a more
sort of sanitized media metric that we use as a
jumping off point for discussion. So the version of the
tests that we use and talk about for all of
three seconds in every episode is that we require two

(04:47):
characters of a marginalized gender with names talk to each
other about something other than a man for more than
two lines of dialogue, and it should be plot moving dialogue. Yeah,
that is the Bechdel test. And the hills are alive
with the sound.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Of women talking to each other. Yes, wow, in heaven
that is wow.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Can you imagine being banished to like the hills where
it's just like Joe Rogan?

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Oh my god, don't even put that out into the universe.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Sometimes I like to think about, like, what would be
an interesting version of Hell that's a fun one, completely empty,
or like, the hills are beautiful, the weather is perfect
all the time, but you can't turn off the Joe
Rogan so you can never enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yikes. Yeah that does sound like Hell.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Anyway, the movie we're talking about today is the Sound
of music if you haven't figured it out, And we
have an amazing guest joining us today. She is the
director of strategy and Partnerships for the Working Families Parties.
She's the co founder of the Resistance Revival Course. She's
also a former children's theater actress and has ties to

(06:04):
this very musical It's N'linie Stamp aka Sister Abbess.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Was that the part you played mother Superior Mother? Well?

Speaker 5 (06:16):
No, no, no, it's okay, but yes, I got to say,
climb every mountain, O, my god, and a falsetto soprano voice.
But thanks for having meal, Oh my gosh, thanks.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
For being here.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
What again? Truly awesome.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
I might break out into song some point.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Oh please please, on an episode like this, It's unavoidable.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
I kind of forgot how many hits are. I mean,
it's really all hits in the Sound of Music. Okay,
so let's Nlinie. Let's start with you. What is your
history with the Sound of Music, the movie, the show
tell us everything?

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
So I first watched Sound of Music the movie when
I was six years old.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
I think it was one of the first.

Speaker 5 (06:57):
My aunt still has like the whole Rogers and hammer
Stein collection of musical like vhs.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
She still has them, and so we would watch all
of them.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
A lot of them pretty racist, like Flower Drum Song
and so Yeah and the King and I you know
and so yeah. But I loved the music. I mean
I loved singing Rogers and hammer Sign.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Julie Andrews is a hero of mine.

Speaker 5 (07:24):
I literally get emotional say her name, like, especially since
she can't sing anymore. It's like or sing the way
she used to, you know, and so I saw it
and then saw it on a Broadway tour, probably when
I was about ten. I was a child actress. I
had a screen actress, Gill Card. I thought I was
gonna be on Broadway. So I was in Staten Island

(07:45):
Children's theater for many years from where I was eight
till I was eighteen, So ten years of Statn Island
Children's Theater Association. Shout out to SICTA and I played.
I think it was my sophomore year of high school.
I went to the Fame school. I'm gonna live for
vocal music, so like I went, oh my god. You know,

(08:05):
Nicki Minaj was two years older than me, which was hilarious,
and you know, and so it's sophomore year. But I
went to a children's theater group, like I love them,
They're amazing. They're still some of my good friends.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
But it was mostly white.

Speaker 5 (08:18):
And I was one of maybe two black young girls.
And you know, we're auditioning for the sound of music,
and I think I remember somebody be like, oh, you
should be one of the track kids. And somebody was like,
but how does that make sense? And I was like
uh oh.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
I was like uh oh.

Speaker 5 (08:34):
But then they gave me the role of Mother Superior.
And you know, the musical is different than the movie, right,
Like My Favorite Things isn't sung by Julie Andrews.

Speaker 4 (08:44):
It's sung by the nuns like Mother Superior.

Speaker 5 (08:47):
So like I was like, ooh, I get my Favorite
Things like great, Like you know, I was like really
excited about that stuff. But you know, it was actually
the sixtieth anniversary of the movie. In December, they re
released the whole album and I like, listen to it again.
I started crying because I was like, we now we're
actually dealing with Nazis like again in the world, like

(09:09):
and so I was just like it's like Atalvice was
like playing and I'm just sitting there just rocking myself
back and forth on a bed, just listening to it.
And I got to meet the director too, because he
also directed West Side Story. Yes, I got to meet
the director before he died, because I went to the
fiftieth anniversary of West Side Story and I met Rita
Moreno when I was twelve, which was my hero as

(09:31):
a Porrigan. West Side Story was very at to me.
So it just yeah, so this, I mean sound of
music has had something in my life for my whole life,
and to this day, I'm like, oh wow, these songs
are like, yeah, we're not the Von Trapps.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
But we have to face off some of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
So yeah, yeah, that's really beautiful. Oh my gosh, thank you, Caitlin.
What's your history with the Sound of Music.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
I had only seen it once before, I believe in college,
when I was watching a bunch of iconic movies that
I hadn't seen yet, and I watched it, and I
famously am not a big musical person. I'm so sorry everybody,
unless it's an animated movie musical, or unless it's like

(10:14):
a very wacky absurdist like Dix the Musical I loved.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Is it good?

Speaker 4 (10:21):
I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I'm very excited to see it, and I know it's great,
But this is it's very funny to listen to you repeatedly,
f be like Dix the Musical is better than the
Sound of Music, if you.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Can quote me on that.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, I was. It's just like god tear take.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's a very Caitlin take as well. But I do
love Dix the Musical. Sound of Music I like, but it's.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
No Dix the Musical it's no Dix the musical.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, it's a little maybe it's like too earnest for me.
I don't know. Like, obviously Julie Andrews is so talented
and amazing and like so extremely likable and every movie
that she's in, But as someone who's not a musical
oriented person, I saw it once and I was like, yep,
that was enough for me. But you know, I watched

(11:11):
it twice to prep for this episode and was like, Oh,
I forgot that so many of these like very familiar
songs that are still in the zeitgeist are from this
movie and this musical. So I was like, oh, it's wild, wild, right,
all of these songs are from this So that was
a nice reminder.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
The closest experience I can think to it is like
every time you go to see like The Nutcracker, you're like, oh,
every single piece in this is very famous, and I
sort of like, like I rediscover that every time I
like listen to The Nutcracker around Christmas. Same deal with
this musical. You're like it's all hits.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, Jamie, what about you.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I didn't get into this when I was a kid.
I think it was just like it was too long
for me. I'm not sure what it was, or maybe
I was just a very pop and I don't know why.
I was like, I have to pick one. Julie Andrews' sixties.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Standard Takes Care of Children. Yeah, character, that.

Speaker 5 (12:11):
Is almost the same movie.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
They came out back to back, and it's like she's
just doing it. She's like, this is the blonde version,
although like the Sound of Music has way more going on,
but also no cartoon penguins, and so you're just like,
that's something to keep in mind as you're watching the
Sound of Music. There's never going to be a cartoon penguin.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
True.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
I guess it would be tasteless given the subject matter. Anyways,
I wasn't a huge fan of it as a kid.
I knew all the songs I love, Love, Love Julie Andrews,
and this was a really interesting musical to revisit I forgot.
I knew like all the main points, but I forgot
a lot of the smaller plot points. And completely by coincidence,

(12:54):
I recently saw Cabaret for the first time, which I mean,
it couldn't be a more different musical, but shares a
lot of the themes and the DNA of this musical
where Cabaret takes place in leate Weimar, Germany and Berlin,
and also I think in a very different and more
cynical way, asks the viewer like, well, what would you

(13:15):
do if you were in this position and in Cabaret?
I mean, I saw Cabaret at the Vista last week
and it blew me away. I mean, it's like that
movie's fucked up, really, but it was like terrific. Yeah,
And then prepping for Sound of Music a couple of
days later. The music couldn't be more different, but it
takes place a couple years later and is in some

(13:37):
ways asking the viewer the same question. It was interesting
to watch back to back. I texted my mom. I
was like, Mom, do you love the sound of music?
And I got like a wall of text The answer
is yes, she said when I first saw it at
the movies, it was the first movie she saw in theaters.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
She was like four when it came out, and she said,
when I saw it at the movie with my Grandma Viv,
I decided I wanted to be the problem to be solved,
just like Maria's like, okay.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
That's iconic. Wow, that's iconic.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
And she said the idea was not to control her,
simply let her be thank you for being you. I
was like, thanks, mom, I'm so hyped this morning.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
It's also interesting that you just said the like the question,
because I feel like a lot of musicals did that
in the six movie musicals, like it was that it
was Fiddler on the Roof, it was right, like all
these things were like what would you do if you
were there while we're singing? And do you have iconic
songs that people still know to this day?

Speaker 4 (14:42):
So it's like, I mean, if I were a rich.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
I mean, it wasn't if I were a rich girl,
because it got turned into.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
And Stefani hi on the no no, when Stefani was
ripping these off.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Oh goodness. Well, let's take a quick break and then
we'll come back for the recap. And we are back,
and here's the recap of Sound of Music. I don't

(15:21):
know if we need like a content warning here, but
we're gonna be talking about Nazis and Nazi Germany, so
just so everyone knows, Okay, here we go. We are
just outside Salzburg, Austria, It's at the end of the
nineteen thirties, and Maria, played by Julie Andrews, is wandering
around the rolling hills, singing that the hills are alive

(15:47):
with the sound of music, and that's the name of
the movie.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
And boy are they The opening shot to this movie
is so beautiful, beautiful.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
It still makes me gass.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
It's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
I'm like, should I move to Austria? I might, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
I don't think that's the lesson of the movie.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Now, then why make it look so beautiful at the beginning? Okay?
We cut to a convent where some nuns are talking
and then singing about Maria, saying that she's two whimsical,
that she's a flibberty gibbet.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
If you will, got her ass.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Most of them like her, but she's not a very
good nun. They can all agree, and so the reverend
mother basically fires Maria from being a nun.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
But like in a nice way. I always I forget
how nice. Yeah, They're like, cut her loose, let her
explore the world. It challenged. Immediately, I've realized how set
the nun trope is in my head, where I'm like
nuns are mean none. They probably hate her because she
likes to sing and have fun. But then I was like, no,

(17:05):
I'm thinking of the Sister act Nuns. This is a
sister act.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
I mean one of my lyrics is how do you
catch a cloud and bring her down?

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Like? They don't call her, they say she's a cloud.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't want my coworkers to talk about
like that.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Well, Jamie, I do. I call you a moonbeam and
a cloud every day.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Sure, Jamie doesn't show up, but I don't a great
she's great? Which is that whole That whole song passes
the Vectel test. It is so sweet, I know. I
also wanted to shout out Marnie Nixon plays one of
the sisters, and she is extremely famous, although it very

(17:50):
rarely appears and stuff because she was the famous like
dubbed voice of the fifties and sixties. When Natalie Wood
is singing in West Side Story, no she's not Marnie
Nixon is singing. When I Habern is singing in My
Fair Lady, No she's not. Marne Nixon is singing the
King And I also her like she was the ghost singer,

(18:11):
and so the fact that she was physically in this
movie was like a big deal.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I also singing in the rain vibes of a singer
dubbing for another actor, and that's the movie we're about
to cover. So it's all connected. Her web connects them all,
Madam Webb's web.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Sorry, I can't start thinking about Madam Web. Think about
Madam Web a week later.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Okay, So Maria is fired from being a nun and
Reverend Mother's like, you're no longer married to God, so
now you can go off God divorced you? Yeah, from God?
But the Reverend mother sends Maria to be a governess

(18:58):
for a family nearby, the Von Trapp family.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, bear with me. I think that this is where
the movie for the good chunk of the first half,
and then a little bit at the end this movie,
I was like, wait, this is School of Rock, Like
what okay, what Jody Andrews is doing with the Von
Traps is literally what Jack Black does in school. The
whole when they're putting together their first song was like,

(19:25):
do ray me.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
That's a good point.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
And then Joan Cusack is Captain von Trapp basically because
doesn't she need to like learn to lighten up as
the movie goes on.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Ye, yes, whoa exactly exactly.

Speaker 5 (19:41):
I'm actually officially gagged right now.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Go of Rock is my favorite movie, and so I'm
always looking for things to be more like it. But
this time I was like, wait, it's actually working. At
the end when the kids from School of Rock go
back and be like, we have to get Dewey, we
gotta get here. Answer the von Trapps do that. They
go back and they like, you got to get Maria.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
They do they do?

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Oh my god, this is a revelation.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Also connection that film was filmed in Staten Island.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Oh, School of Rock was all filmed, so we were
all trying to do jack backsidings when when that, Yeah,
it was a big thing island.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I mean even the naming convention of both movie titles
School of Rock Sound of Music Music exactly exactly.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Somebody asked this question.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I guess I don't really have anything else to say
about it, just that I was like, wow, Sound of
Music is World War two School of Rock, and now
you know, now we know?

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Okay, So Maria is sent to be the governess for
the von Trapp family. The father is a navy captain
who's his wife died a few years prior or sometime prior,
and so he needs a governess to take care of
his seven children. And Maria is nervous and apprehensive about

(21:04):
taking care of so many children, especially because there have
been so many other governesses who quit after a short time.
But she sings about having confidence in herself. And then
she arrives at the mansion and meets the father, Captain
Gayorg von Trapp.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Everyone's like, why do you look like shit? It was
like leave her alone. She just got here.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. They keep commenting on her ugly dress, and it's like,
leave Julie Andrews alone.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
But to be fair, she also says leave me alone
my first day.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yes, She's like, excuse y'all.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
You are rich?

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, so yeah, gay Org von Trapp. Also the name
Gaeorg is just it's funny to me. He's played by
Christopher Plummer. And then we also meet his children, who
so the captain doesn't really allow to be children. He
doesn't want them playing or having fun. He treats them

(22:06):
like they're in boot camp. There's no affection, it's all discipline.
He has a whistle that he blows at them all
the time m h. And all of this is very
appalling to Maria and she's like, no, no, no, I'm going
to fix this. The children are Lisil who is sixteen,
Friedrich who's fourteen, Luisa is thirteen, Kurt is eleven, Brigida

(22:30):
is ten, Marta is seven, and Gretel is five. Some
of them have distinct personalities, but there's others that I
couldn't really keep track of. They get kind of lost
in the shuffle.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
I like how they all have like they're like, I'm
incorrigible and that they're like, oh, so you're classic ten
year olds.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, but he also doesn't know what that means.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
No, they don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
They use big words, and you're like, your father is
clearly just making you.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Say these things.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, Captain von Trapp has you reading the dictionary? Like, yeah,
he really needs a sense of control. I'm excited to
talk about Captain von Trapp because I feel like the
way that he's written. At first, he's such a stereotype,
but then like as it bears out, you're like, I
don't agree with him, but I understand more. Wow, that's

(23:21):
what he does.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, so he steps out of the room, and then
all of the children try to like clown on Maria
and they're like bullying her. They put a toad in
her pocket. It seems like they want her to fail
like the other governesses have failed. But Maria, she gets
settled in and then the family sits down for dinner,

(23:43):
and Maria has a way of making the children feel
so guilty about how they treated her earlier, and several
of them start crying at the dinner table. And then
a telegram arrives for the Captain from his lady love,
Baroness Schrader, inviting him to Vienna. We will learn that

(24:03):
he intends to marry the Baroness soon. Also, the telegram
is delivered by this boy named Rolf, who is Lisal's
little boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
There's one person in this world I hate. It's Rolf.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Oh Rolf, that motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
They really didn't meet him in the show, to be honest. No.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, So Liseel goes outside to hang out with Rolf
and they sing and dance, and that is when we
get the I am sixteen going on seventeen songs.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
I danced to that in ballet class when I was
like eight.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I didn't know that it was sung by a
Nazi character at the time. That's another thing that like,
because the theme of this movie is so intense, but
all of the songs I feel like exist in the
popular consciousness out of context where you're like, oh, that's
kind of a cute, slightly song, and then you're like,

(25:01):
it's in context even wilder, even worse.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
So then Maria finds out from the housekeeper why Captain
von Trapp treats the children the way that he does. Basically,
ever since his wife died, he doesn't want anything in
the house that reminds him of her, and that's why
there's no like fun or play or music. Then Lisil

(25:30):
sneaks back inside from her rendezvous with Rolf via Maria's room,
but Maria's like, don't worry, I won't knark on you,
and that allows them to kind of like bond a
little bit. And then the other kids come into Maria's
room because they're afraid of the thunderstorm that's happening, and
so she sings these are a few of my favorite

(25:53):
things to distract them and make them feel better.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Great song.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
But then Captain von Trapp comes in to be like,
what's all this joy and merriment that I'm hearing?

Speaker 2 (26:04):
School of rock vibes? Yeah, Joan cusag bursting and being
like they're hearing music?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
What is it? So he again he's all about discipline,
and he wants Maria to find some herself, and she's like, oh,
fuck this guy.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
If I didn't do it for God, Like, why would
I do it?

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah? Why would I do it?

Speaker 4 (26:25):
That was going to Maria's.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
God divorced me. I'm like, I can do it over
the fuck I want. The worst scenario has occurred.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, Yeah, She's like, if I'm not doing it for God,
I'm definitely not doing it for gay Org certainly not okay.
So Captain von Trapp leaves the following morning to visit
the Baroness, and Maria uses that opportunity of his absence
to take the children out and encourage them to play.

(26:56):
And oh they're laughing, Oh they're frolicking. Oh they're wearing
clothes that she made them out of old drapes, and
she also teaches them songs to sing, starting with dough
a Dear.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
I started crying so much during that sequence, and I
don't know why. It's so beautiful, like so good, really good. Yeah.
I wasn't expected to start weeping, but look at God.

Speaker 5 (27:30):
I also don't know anybody who doesn't know that song, right,
Like in the world, I've never met somebody, whether you
like musicals, whether you don't, wherever you're from like I do,
I've never met a person who doesn't know that song.
They might know where it's from, but they know that song.
And so it's just like the test of time, truly.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Rogers and hammersiin I like, they had hits. They had hits.
I have some notes for them, but they had hits.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Sure is that not? Who did the Brandy Cinderella? They
did the music and lang?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, yes, And Julie Andrews played that role on TV
originally that was her first Rogers and Hammerstein outing yes.

Speaker 5 (28:11):
Yep, yeah, yeah, because she started with My Fair Lady.
And that's why Marnie Nixon is important in the Sound
of Music. It's because Julie Andrews got snubbed for being
in the movie of My Fair Lady. They chose Audrey Hepberd,
who couldn't sing. And I believe that the story is
that Julie Andrews wanted Marnie Nixon to be in.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
The same movie with her, to be like we can
both sing.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, that's really cool. I love Julie Andrews. She's such
a beautiful salt. They almost put Audrey Hepburn in this role.
At one point. Audrey Hepburn was supposed to be in
this role and they were like, what are we doing here?
Thank god, she can't sing. No, I love Audrey hepberd
but like it's not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, okay, So they're singing about dough a deer, female deer.
And then also during their outings, the children reveal the
reason that they were so cruel to the other governesses,
which is that they were trying to get their father's
attention because again he's not attentive or affectionate, and they
just like act out so that he will maybe pay

(29:13):
attention to them. Then Captain von Trapp returns home with
Baroness Schrader played by Eleanor Parker, as well as Max
Dettweiler aka Uncle Max played by Richard Hayden, who is
scouting a musical group to perform at the Salzburg Folk Festival.

(29:35):
So his whole thing is like I need to find
a music group for the festival, and I am very
centrist in my politics.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I mean school of rock, Battle of the Bands, Boom done.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
There it is.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
They're low, They're low, the stakes.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
Are high, sticks are high. We got to do it.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Von Trapp's steaks significantly way higher.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, but okay. So this is also the part of
the movie where we start getting hints of the socio
political climate of the world of this movie. So again,
it's the late nineteen thirties Europe. Hitler is rising to power,
which Captain von Trapp opposes. There's also mentions of the Antelus,

(30:20):
which we can talk about in context corner later on,
but we get those hints. Then Maria and the children
return from one of their outings on a boat and
then they fall into the water with their clothes on,
and we're like, okay. Leonardo DiCaprio vibes yes, because he's
always in water in his clothes famously.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
Oh yes.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Captain von Trapp is like, what the fuck are you
doing with my kids? And Maria is like, you need
to let them be children, and you need to love
them instead of ignore them, because all they want is
to be loved by you. But he refuses to listen
to her, and he tries to fire her, and she's like,
I already got fired by God, so nice, try you

(31:08):
no worser.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
I do love that she's only sad because she loves
the kids. She's never like I did a bad job.
She's just like, well, fuck you, like your kids are
gonna be miserable. Best of a life. I'm going to
see if I can get back together with God.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
He kindled my romance with God.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Get another date with God.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Okay, So he tries to fire Maria, but then Captain
von Trapp, here's his children singing that the hills are
alive with the sound of music to Baroness Schrader, and
he's like, wow, it's beautiful, and he even joins in singing.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
And he sings eight of us and it's so beautiful.
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, that happens a little bit after, but he's basically like,
never mind, Maria, you're unfired. I recognize and appreciate what
you've done for my children.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
But he apologizes, which I was truly shocked. Yeah, a
man apologizing in a movie in nineteen sixty five. Hello,
I didn't know what happened.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Hard to imagine, but it does.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
It's like, I'm horny apology.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Wow, the Barcelo, it really is so now that he's
like on board with music. In the household, Maria and
the children put on a marionette puppet show. They're yodeling. Hih.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
The only.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Looks fun. The puppets are scary.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
They are so scary looking.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
But I'm loving every second.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
It was so weird. I was like, when did the
acid trip scene get rid into.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Truly? Yeah, but you know the father's loving it. Yeah,
he's into it, and so is Uncle Max. Uncle Max
is like, you are the people who I've been looking
for this whole time to perform in this upcoming Salzburg
folk festival. Their father isn't too sure. He doesn't want
them singing in public, but then he's like, well whatever,

(33:14):
and then this is where he sings the song Adelweiss.
Then the family throws a party so the captain von
Trapp can introduce all of his friends to the Baroness.
But von Trapp is kind of paying more attention to
Maria than the Baroness, and they dance, and Baroness Trader

(33:35):
does not like this, and she suggests that Maria and
the captain are in love with each other, and Maria
is like, well, I guess it must be true then
if you said it, in which case it would be
inappropriate if I stayed here. So Maria packs her bags
leaves a note.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
This whole thing. I'm like, Maria, Maria, what why.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Girl?

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah? Weird moment to fall right.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
She's so headstrong, right, she's so outspoken, she's so good
about speaking her mind. And this time maybe it's because
like she's just like, damn, I am in love with
him and I'm supposed to be in love with God
or something.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Like if I'm cheating on God, suckin. Get here.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah. Anyway, So she returns to the convent and the
children are very sad that Maria is gone, especially because
she left without saying goodbye, and they don't really know
why she left. So they go to the convent to
try to talk to her school of raw, but she's
in seclusion. She is in seeing or speaking to anyone
right now, until Maria does finally open up to the

(34:44):
reverend mother about her feelings for Captain von Trapp. So
the reverend mother is like, well, then you should go
back to the von trap house and follow your dreams
and like, smooch him if you want, and she's like, okay,
So Maria does.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
Just that till you found your dream.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
And then the crowd is cheering.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
We're cheering, We're cheering.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, it's really beautiful. She's so supportive the nuns, I mean,
and then they cut a Nazi's breaks at the end.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
I'm like, they're just gangs, these ladies.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, truly. So Maria returns to the von trap house
and they're delighted that she's back, and the captain is
so happy that she's back that he breaks up with
the Baroness Schrader and he goes to Maria to be like,
by the way, I dumped my fiance because I'm in
love with you, and then the kiss cut to them

(35:44):
getting married at the convent. And I have also been
so conditioned to think that a wedding is how a
movie ends that I thought the movie was over after that,
but there's like a half hour left where the children
prepare for their performance at the folk festival that night
with Uncle Max, and then Nazis come by to be like,

(36:07):
why isn't Captain von Trapp flying the Nazi flag? You
know what's going on? With you and your family. And
then Lisa's boyfriend Rolf, who is like a full blown
Nazi now, he delivers a telegram to Captain von Trapp,
summoning him to Berlin, which, as von Trapp says, to

(36:27):
refuse would be fatal to the family. To accept would
be unthinkable. So they make plans to flee from Austria
that night, but Nazis see them trying to escape, so
the von Traps are like, oh no, We're just going
to the music festival. So the Nazis follow them there
and are like hovering over them as they're performing and stuff,

(36:50):
but they sneak out after their performance. The Nazis continue
to pursue them, so the von Traps hide at the convent.
They have a close counter with Rolf, who tries to
wrap them out, but they managed to run away and
they escape into the hills which are alive with the

(37:12):
sound of music. Oh boy, are they the end? You
did it? I did it. So let's take a quick
break and we will come back to discuss.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
And we're back.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
We are back, if it's cool.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I wanted to start with a little context quarter on
who these damn Von Traps were. Yes, please, because they
were real, I kind of forget that, to be honest same,
so obviously this is like, honestly, this was more historically
accurate than I expected it to be. But there are
some a couple of significant deviations just from their personal histories,

(38:00):
the most significant of which was that Maria was like
sort of forced into a marriage with von Trapp and
she very much wanted to remain a nun. Most of
her biography is correct. She was orphaned very young, she
moved into a convent and then was sent to be
a governess. But I don't know what the age gap

(38:21):
between these two actors are. The real life age gap
was twenty five years. And gay Org went back to
Mother Superior and was like, hey, I want to marry
Maria because she's great with my kids, because she did
absolutely love the kids, and the Mother Superior was like, yeah,
sure you can marry her. And Maria's like, well, hold on,
I don't want to, and they were like, sorry, you're

(38:44):
gonna get married to him. So this whole series of
adaptations comes from Maria's memoirs, so she is the primary source.
So I don't know, as with all memoirs, grain of salt,
but this is how she describes their relationship. I really
and truly he was not in love. I liked him
but didn't love him. However, I loved the children, so

(39:05):
in a way I really married the children, bye and bye.
I learned to love him more than I have ever
loved before or after. But she was like not thrilled
about this marriage.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
And then I think like over time became more okay
with that question mark. But it was like you was
significantly older than her and she was. She loved his kids,
but was not crazy about him anyways, So that all
takes place a lot of the story about you know,
they start singing, they become this family band, they are

(39:40):
pressured to join the Nazi party, and then they leave.
That's all true. The locations and the timeline is quite different.
I think Maria came into their life like ten years
before any of this happened. Yeah, but I don't think
that like the spirit or their decisions weren't changed. Those
were the actual decisions that they made, sort of turned

(40:01):
up to a thirteen for movie purposes. There were particulars
that I didn't like. They were asked to perform at
Hitler's birthday party.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Oh yes, I didn't know that. There's some wild stories
about them, Like.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
I think that the movie maybe gives them a little
more distance from the center of the Nazi Party than
was accurate, thankfully. I mean they never do it. They
do as in the movie they flee Austria, not in secret.
They are like, hey, we're going to just go be
in our family band and not join the Nazi Party.

(40:35):
But while they were touring, the Nazis would use their house.
The proximity was far closer than I think the movie
in the show indicates, but the decisions are essentially the same,
so right.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
There's also some characters who are either like completely fictional
or fictionalized versions of the real people, and then a
lot of the events that play out in the movie
are quite embellished or heightened for dramatic effect. A few
examples would be that, like the family didn't use that

(41:10):
folk festival as like a means to escape. They were
able to like take a train to Italy and then
like go to London and then eventually the US, but
they made it seem like they had to like flee
very urgently for dramatic effect. In the film adaptation, The

(41:32):
Father was not this like aloof patriarch who disapproved of
the music.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
He was a sweetheart, and Maria was kind of mean,
which I thought was fascinating. They were like Maria had
really severe mood swings and like she was not Julian Andrews.
She's very human mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
And then the children were like their names and their
ages in the movie are very different from who those
real people were, and they're just kind of like, not
super based on the real children. Also, there were younger
children who were the children of Maria and Gaeor.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
There was like ten of them total in real life.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
I think one of them still operate the chap family
Lodge in like still Vermont.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Her grandchild runs it because of.

Speaker 5 (42:25):
How young her children were, you know what I mean,
Like her grandchild right now is still alive enough to
run the family lodge.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
This is like I have a whole day. Anytime someone
is buying like your book or your rights from you,
chances are you're gonna get fucked over. Because the von
Trapp family does not actually end up making a lot
of money off of the sound of music because Maria
didn't catch something in the contract. Basically, they didn't get
kicked back on any of this, So that's like why

(42:55):
they run the von Trapp Lodge and like find ways
to capitalize on there because this was like one of
the most highest grossing movies of all time. Yes, and
they got nothing and they weren't consulted.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
They won Best Picture.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, it sucks. I feel like that happens every like
almost every single time. You know, the powers that be
fied a way to fuck you over for sure.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
And then I guess, just to provide some historical context
for the world that this movie takes place in, so
there's references to the Anschluss, which was the annexation of
the federal state of Austria into the German Reich, which
happened on May thirteenth, nineteen thirty eight. So the idea

(43:39):
was that there would be this united Austria and Germany.
They would like come together to form a quote unquote
Greater Germany. The idea of this arose in the eighteen seventies.
By the nineteen twenties, the idea of this unification had
strong support from both Austria and Germany, particularly to like

(44:03):
people on like the political left as well as the center.
But like it was like kind of a leftist movement
for Austrians. But then when Hitler rose to power in Germany,
this unification became like a very Nazi you know that
there were all these like Nazi overtones with it because

(44:24):
Hitler was like, I'm trying to basically incorporate as many
like ethnic Germans who were outside of Germany into Greater Germany.
So he was trying to like basically make this like
super German knee country, and that's why he was in
favor of it. And von Chrapp was very opposed to

(44:44):
the Nazi Party, so that's why even though he was
like a naval captain and stuff like that, he was
just like, I'm out of here. I'm getting my family
out of here, and so that's why they like fled
and eventually ended up in the US. So that was
stuff that I didn't even know about, So just sharing
for anyone who didn't know. I'm by no means a historian,

(45:07):
especially when it comes to the history of Austria. But
I learned all this stuff and we're sharing it with
the listeners in case they needed to know.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
And it's kind of crazy because where I've actually done
a lot.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Of work with them.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
It's really funny the German and Austrian left political parties
now and it's crazy to I've still never been to
Austria and if I go, like I would totally like
I would find the von Trap House and cry and
the fountain near Joe Raymie, like I would just recreate
everything by myself with outfits that I make out of
my window curtains. You know, I'm necessarily like that is

(45:42):
my life goal and husband. But it's interesting because like
right now in Germany there is this far right party
called the day Aft for sure, but you know, and
in Austria and they keep growing every year and they're
legitimate descendants from Nazi parties like folks who have you know.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
They just transformed their names and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
So it's kind of it is wild that such a
globally popular film.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
And obviously an era of time that we.

Speaker 5 (46:09):
Are always talk about and it is crucial to history.
It's just crazy that the places where this was really
birth or Nazism.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
Was birthed and popularized.

Speaker 5 (46:20):
Disgustingly so are seeing a resurgence and this far right
as we're speaking, which is totally my blowing at the moment.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
The last thing I wanted to just conclude about the
historical that's something that because all the biographies of the
kids and the ages were sort of skewed as a
result to make the storyline work. The eldest son at
the time they actually fled Austria was a doctor who
resigned in protest after all of the Jewish doctors at

(46:49):
his firm were fired, And so in the movie, because
of the facts that have been changed, it's made to
seem like it was like strictly Von Trapp being like, okay,
it's time to go. But because the kids were actually
working adults, or many of them were, at the time
that they left, it was a very collective effort of

(47:09):
like here's what I'm seeing in my corner of the world,
and like we can't stay here anymore. In general, I mean,
there's a lot that's been changed, but I feel like
with adaptations it's like, well, how's the message and like
demonstrative acts of what happened been changed? And here the
answer is no. I mean, there's stuff that's been changed

(47:31):
and movie fied. I think that honestly, the most damning
thing that's changed is that Maria didn't want to marry
Von Trapp.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, But as far as like what their political stances were.
By all accounts, it seems like that holds true because
I'm always nervous in watching stuff like this where it's like, well, actually, no,
they got out, but it wasn't for the reasons you
would think kind of thing. But they they actually they
held the line and started a band, so I'm good

(47:59):
for them. And then like later in their family history,
they would send a lot of money back to Austria
to help rebuild and support people. So they seemed like
real ones. Shout out to my friend the von Trapp family,
and I think a lot of them live in Pittsburgh
now and I love.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Western Pennsylvania represent.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
Well.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
The characters being very fictionalized and their characterizations being very
different from who they actually were as far as personality
goes makes it easier for us, because anytime we've covered
like a biopic, it's always just like, how exactly do
we discuss this, or at least the characters because they're

(48:48):
based on real people. But in this case, like so
much is fictionalized as far as the character's personalities that
it makes our discussion a little bit easier, especially considering
like the reframing of the relationship between Captain von Trapp
and Maria for the sake of the adaptation being reframed
as like this whirlwind romance versus like a forced marriage

(49:13):
kind of thing. Like essentially, Yeah, So as far as
the character of Maria goes, I mean, it's Julie Andrews.
So she's just inherently lovable and so sweet and so patient.
And I don't even know exactly what I want to
say about the character. But you know, she like gets

(49:34):
the children to be this musical troupe. But a lot
of also what she does is that she has to
like help a father learn the lesson that he should
love his children via music.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Well, I see, I think that's an oversimplification.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
I mean, for sure, but my.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Thing is like that is on its face true. I'm
gonna come to the Captain's defense here because I do
feel like within the story and also like the fact
that that is not what happened in real life, she
was kind of cranky and he was very affectionate with
his kids. But in any case, in the world of
this story, I feel like we are shown a very

(50:13):
like rigid parent archetype. But I feel like over the
course of the movie, it is teased out why he's
behaving that way. He doesn't need to be taught to
love his children, He needs to be taught to navigate
his own grief feelings. And is that Maria's job?

Speaker 1 (50:28):
No?

Speaker 2 (50:29):
No, But I also think that that's not her goal either.
Her goal is to be a good guardian to this kid.
Her goal is to do a good job. Like I
thought this kind of averted a lot of the stereotypes
that you see in this sort of movie, because she's
just like, I care about the kids. I will openly

(50:50):
defy you to take care of the kids. Like your
takeaway can be whatever it is, but like I'm as
long as I'm working here, I'm going to act in
their best in try right. Yeah, And then he gets
on board.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
And I think that the thing that for me that
was always trivial about Maria is like she for the
whole movie, she's like, I am my independent person. And
in the movie they add the song I Have confidence.
It's not in the musical. But the thing that's so
funny is that like she doesn't really listen to Georg,
she doesn't listen to sometimes she doesn't listen to mother Abbess,
or sometimes she does, but the person she listens to

(51:24):
they have very little screen time, is the Baroness.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
And on one hand, for the history of movie.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
Making, I'm like, you know what she's listening to at
least a woman.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
And like just a band or you know all that stuff.
The other hand, I'm like, why does it have to
be a rich woman?

Speaker 5 (51:37):
Like why is like, out of all of the people,
couldn't they have just made it a different character. But
I just that's something that's most trivial to me. It's like,
out of all people you listen to, like that moment
just doesn't make sense because of the very few moments
they have together.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
And I'm like, I'm still like, well, why.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Like why the Baroness character is all over the place
to be? I don't quite get her because it's like
she kind of rolls in, reminding me of like Meredith
from The Parent Trap, where she's like, I'm your new
blonde mother, and like here I am. I seem like
I might be up to no good. But then it

(52:14):
turns out and she kind of is up to no good.
But then at the I don't know, she tells this
huge lie that I still don't buy. Maria falling for
I'm like, well, you love him, so you have to
go and get out of my way. So she does
something like emotionally evil, but then she like lets him
go so easily. She's like, all right, I guess I know,

(52:35):
and I've been vested. See you later. And then she
pops out of the movie and I was like, do
you do you care about this relationship or not? Like
I don't understand what her end game is.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
It was one of those like you're not firing me,
I quit because we're like.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
She quit fired the family.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
I interpreted that is like she wouldn't let her ego
be damaged by being broken up with. So she's like,
you actually were never the right man for me, and
that's why I'm leaving, and that's why I've decided actually
that we're breaking up.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
And I've done that before, but actually I this It
was my idea and.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
It tracks to me with who she's established to be,
because like, sure, I think a lesser movie would have
made her just like very one dimensionally evil a lah
Billy z Ain in Titanic or something like that.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Her hands off my fiance, and.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
She is definitely presented as like an obstacle for Maria
and she is certainly manipulative in different moments, but you
also like see her try to make an effort with
the children, and she does seem to be quite affectionate
toward Captain von Trapp, so like she has qualities that
to me make her feel like a more well rounded person.

(54:00):
I'm not a good person, not someone you'd want to
hang out with, but like someone who has dimension. And
I was like a little surprised because.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
She's better than you think she's gonna be, right, even
though she does the one evil thing.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
She does the evil thing, And I was confused when
she was first appearing on screen and she has like
a little sidebar with Uncle Max, and I was like,
wait a minute, Okay, she's like there to try to
marry Van Trapp to take his money, but then she's like,
but I'm rich and so I don't need I have
my own money. And then Max is like, yeah, rich
people should marry each other so they can also stay

(54:35):
rich together, and poor people can stay poor.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Like isn't that what happens already?

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah? Right?

Speaker 2 (54:42):
I was like that the whole seems to be the play,
but the whole history of the world.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Right, So I was confused. At first, because I was like, oh,
she's like scheming to take his money. But then I'm like, no,
that's not even what's happening. So she's a little bit
she's more nuanced than I would have expected. And you know,
you mentioned Meredith from The Parent Trap, who is like
pretty one dimensionally evil, and yeah, this movie like doesn't
take that character in that direction. She's like, yeah, she's

(55:09):
got a little more nuance to her.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
And it doesn't seem like the kids hate her. They
just don't like her as much as they like Maria, right, yeah,
which is fine. I don't know, I think, honestly, that's
a really good point. And maybe I'm just more like
bugged by. I'm like, why did Maria fall for her trick?
But that's just a reaction to how much I love

(55:32):
Maria's character. Like she is, so it's like effortless the
way that like I was reading a couple of essays
just about the character of Maria and how like this
movie presents becoming like a parent as an active choice,
and I feel like we're so often told that, like

(55:54):
women are expected to be parents and to be inherently
nurturing and to be all this stuff, which I think
there are counterpoints to in the movie, because that's not
who the Baroness is. She's doing her best, but like
it's not quite cooking. Maria loves these kids and like
is choosing to be there. It's not expected of her,
and she's like making an active effort to want to

(56:16):
do that, and like her norm is also her active choice,
which is like she wanted to be a nun. But
then it's like, I just really I like how much
space she has within the story, and it's still very
much of its time, Like there's only so many she
can't become a doctor, like you know, the stuff that
our options to many women today aren't available to her.

(56:38):
But I really liked that she is so active. There's
literally a song about how she's confident, yes, and it
doesn't feel like it just feels completely in stuck with
who she is, and the fact that she's loved for
those qualities is the coolest. I just love her, And.

Speaker 5 (56:56):
I think it's also just like speaking to like who
Julie Andrews is, Like if you think about all of
the roles, she's hot, like you know Mary Poppins and
My Fair Lady, Eliza Doolittle unbrought like you know in
the original, like all of these are for the time period,
compared to the Damsel and the Distressed on Jeenew's of

(57:19):
fifties and sixties musicals, like they are actually pretty radical
for the time where you know, you compare that with
the roles that Shirley mcclaan used to play in Oklahoma
or in Carousel and all these Rogers and Hammerside musicals,
same things too, right, And it just to me, it
was just something like and it continued throughout Julie Andrews's career.

(57:40):
She was Victor, Victoria all of these like she could
have been the Damsel in distress Angenoux. She's got that
beautiful face, she's small body, right, like all these things
that were very popular for that at the time. But
she really was like a no, I'm going to play
roles that aren't just the traditional you know woman.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
All at the Yeah, and don't forget her most iconic
role of all time, which of course is her voicing
the Queen in Shrek Too. Oh yeah, yes, Princess Diary
is sure to me that pales in comparison to the

(58:21):
Queen Fiona's mom and Shrek Too and beyond.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
It's true, it's the best thing. Here is something I
wrote down at one am last night. In the Sound
of Music, Maria is a Montessori teacher called by God,
and in Mary Poppins, Julie Andrews is a Montessori teacher
who's also a wizard.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah again, they're very similar movies, and that Julie Andrews
is summoned to care for children. I want to go
back to the her being duped basically by the baroness.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Yea, what's going on there? Please please help me get there?

Speaker 1 (59:09):
I don't know. And because this is not at all
how it played out in real life for Maria, it's like,
obviously this was completely fabricated for the sake of the
musical in the movie. I can't speak to Catholic guilt
from experience, but part of me is like, Okay, maybe
she thinks, like she's a nun, she shouldn't have these,

(59:32):
like sure, like this shame romantic feelings for a mortal man.
And she probably does actually have those feelings in the
context of this movie because she has watched Von Trapp,
you know, lighten up and be more affectionate toward his children,
and he's also appreciating her for her efforts, like he
doesn't at first, but he then realizes like, wow, she

(59:56):
has done a lot for my family and my children,
like and he expressed his gratitude about that. He apologizes
for being shitty earlier, and so I can kind of
see why she would maybe develop feelings for him. And
then when someone points this out and she realizes like damn,
maybe she's right. But because she has all of this,
like none guilt, she's like, oh my god, it is

(01:00:18):
so inappropriate. If I'm here falling in love with this man,
I should leave. So I don't know if that you know,
I'm sort of projecting maybe I'm on board.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
I'm on board. I grew up a Catholic, and so
I can speak from cath.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
You can speak better than I can.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
Then, yes, no, that makes sense. I've never thought about
it like that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
But as soon as he said I was like, oh,
it totally makes sense, because like both nuns and also
extremely religious Catholics who like, maybe I've never had a
partner in their life because they're saying that their partner
is God, Like I know some of them and my
family that were just like I'm never gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
My only partner I need is jod you know. And so.

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
I do think that that's a real that is a
real thing, especially at the time period where you don't
second guess another woman saying, you know, saying that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
To you as well. But I also think that like,
is that just like the duped part.

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
I think part of it is that, like she doesn't
want to be in the way of what is best
for the children, and she probably just thinks that if
there's some mother figure there and Bareness is not it's
not Meredith from parent trap.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
If there's some mother figure there is, there's.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
Somebody who can take Captain von Trapp out of his
like grief, then they're fine and she's done her job.
So that could also be a part of it too,
like plus the guilt being like, you know what.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
All I want to make sure the children are good.
She's not evil to them, she's not mean to them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
She's not as badass as I am, but maybe they'll
be straight right, And so I think that's also a
part of it, where it's like, oh yeah, wait a second,
maybe I will make this more complicated, you know what,
Like a situation's already messy and you're like I'm gonna
do the Homer Simpson meme and.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
So yeah, that could be a part of it too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
That makes total sense. Okay, Wow, I'm glad we're doing
this right well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Especially because I think it's the scene of her like
first night in the house and she's praying, and that's
when she's like, God, bless what's his name? Which is
so funny, but she's kind of praying and she's like
vocalizing that she realizes her like divine purpose for at
least this chunk of time is to prepare the family

(01:02:30):
for their new mother, because she already knows that the
Baroness and von Trapp are like betrothed. So she's like, Okay,
I'll just like be the governess until this like mother
comes in marries into the family and kind of like
replaces my role as mother figures right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
She sees herself as like a stop gap kind of Yeah. Yeah,
she doesn't expect to fall in love. I gotta say
I like their relationship. It's a relationship that girl and
is based on mutual respect. It's not perfect, there is, certainly,
and I do think that the expectation that he has
to be ushered through his own grief. There's a gendered

(01:03:11):
way to view that, and I also think that that's
what a good partner does too, So I don't know.
I'm like, it is so hard to get me on
board with like a romantic relationship in an older movie,
but this is like way better than I expected. The
exchange with them, where she, I think, is coming from
like she's just been let go. She's coming from that

(01:03:32):
shame based place where she's like, I'm far too outspoken,
It's one of my worst faults. And he's like, no, wrong,
I'm sorry, you were doing the right thing. I feel like,
within the context of the movie, like she is challenging
his views on like what a woman can do and

(01:03:53):
what someone with less resources with him can do, and
like he's actually taking the note and being like I'm wrong,
and like Maria is demonstrably like changing my kid's life.
Let's get on board. I like it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
What I'll say about Captain ron Chapp is like, there
is this I know a lot of folks talk about
or how I talked about it being very gendered and stuff,
and I kind of look at it, especially because he's
in the military, is like he needs something to fight for,
he needs something to stay alive for and a lot
like a live personality and soul wise, and he not
only gets it in the sense of seeing his children

(01:04:31):
alive and seeing them not also acting on in some
ways with Maria, but he also gets it because he's
fighting against something that he doesn't believe in, which is
like NAZII and fascism in that way, right, Like there
are subtle hints throughout it, and I think that part
of like I don't think that that was just Maria
that did that for him, right, or Maria's responsibility. It's
like what the movie shows. It's just like the way

(01:04:53):
the music in the movie are written. It's just like
he did need something to fight for. And that's why
when he sings in a vice at the end, it's
just like one of the like I never or not cry,
Like there's just like I never ever ever not cry.
I'm even like now I'm like, no, no, you're not
gonna cry.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
I cry every episode.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
But it's just like like the journey for him.

Speaker 5 (01:05:18):
As when you think also about soldiers at that time,
the historical context of like a lot of these nation
states being fairly new because they were like you know,
there's the Austrio, Hungarian umpire, like also all these folks
being like I have a country to believe in, I
have a family to believe in. I have all this
stuff to believe in. And you know, your wife dies

(01:05:39):
and then you're seeing the rise of the Nazi Party,
which you're trying to ignore it. So I just feel
like all of that overwhelming stuff, she was able to
kind of be like wake up because the world was
also happening around her. And I think he saw that
as example, not as like it's your job to do this,
but like, oh, if she can do this, if she
can live in this world and look at the bright

(01:05:59):
side regardless of what's happening, and like, yeah, that's why.
At the end, it's just like you know what, Like
that's where it gets to me.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
A lot of the times.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
It's really nice. I do feel like in Act too.
I feel this way about Active every musical. The ending
is tremendous and like amazing. I do feel like Maria's
role in the movie is pulled back a little bit
after she's married, which I think we see and with

(01:06:28):
some frequency this is like not the worst offender. It's
not like she disappears from the plot, but she is
less active because the focus. Once they're together, the focus
shifts to their escape, which is more driven at least
in this story by Captain von Trapp, So we sort
of shifts focused towards the end, which I don't know.

(01:06:50):
I mean, I don't really have a suggestion for how
that could have been rectified, but I did. I'd never
noticed that in previous viewings. Not the worst offender, but
it was something I picked that by.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I feel like you could just make a few quick
writing slash dialogue changes to make some of the things
her idea.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Yes right, which was like historically true, It's like it
was more of a collective decision, right right, Like when
he gets the telegram and he's like to refuse this
would be bad.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
But also under no circumstances would I ever return to
Germany and be complicit in this Nazi movement. If she's like, okay,
well let's pack up and leave tonight, like if it's
her proposing that, and then if it's her, yeah, there's
different things like she does jump in when they get
caught by the Nazis outside as they're like pushing the

(01:07:39):
car out of the driveway, and she chimes in a
little bit, but if she was a little bit more
active in that conversation, different things like that could have
made her more active and just shown that like, oh,
she fully understands what's happening, and she's going to be
a very active participant in this escape. But yeah, the
movie definitely does scale back on her active participation in

(01:08:02):
a way that doesn't make sense because she's the protagonist
of the movie, so like, yeah, you need to keep
her active throughout.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Yeah, yeah, I wish there.

Speaker 5 (01:08:10):
Would have been some plotting a little bit also, Like
you could have had some plotting with like the nuns,
like how they I mean, they went back to the abbey,
but that could have even been explored more too, because
they came back and a bunch of scenes in Act one,
but then they're really just left at the very end
of both the movie and the musical, and it's like
the movie is really just like a pinch in the air.
The musical has it a little bit tossed out more

(01:08:31):
because musicals.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Often do that.

Speaker 5 (01:08:33):
But I think that they could have even had like
Maria plotting with the nuns, yeah, to do that stuff, right,
like even if that was so completely fictional, that still
would have made it her character stronger, and then the
bond as well of sisterhood. Literally, like the nuns do
a badass thing and it's amazing, and it's also kind
of like people forget that they did that because it
wasn't a big thing in the movie, right, like yeah,

(01:08:56):
and so it could have just been more explored so
that that scene had more of an act, I think totally.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
And the fact that, like the nuns politics are revealed
to us, but up until that point we're not really
given a lot of information of like how do they
feel about the changing landscape around them? That would be
like a really that I'm sure the primary you know,
resources exist for that would have been a really fascinating

(01:09:22):
thing to view as well as I think that, Yeah,
like the movie gets a little bit myopic with like
Captain von Trapp's journey towards the end, especially now having
read that like the children were actually mostly adults and
were extremely anti Nazi, like it would have been. I
think that Lisel is really kind of our only significant

(01:09:44):
in and like, holy shit, what is going on around me?
I refuse to participate, which is done through a romantic relationship.
I don't know that feels very smaltzy and hm. But
at least you have one of the kids interaction with it.
But yeah, for the most part, that whole arc is

(01:10:04):
reserved strictly for von Trapp, where I think it would
have been interesting to see. Yeah, I guess which you
see more of in Cabaret of like, how are individuals processing, ignoring,
challenging this fiscistic movement that they're surrounded by, you know,
can't relate, But yeah, I mean I think that, like

(01:10:29):
it would have been interesting. Liesel is our only end
and it's not. I don't love that in for us
is like, oh no, my boyfriend is a Nazi. No.
I feel like there's a better way to make that
same point. And I think it's instructive to watch Lisel.
You know, have to have a political awakening as a teenager.

(01:10:49):
That's a very relatable thing. I just didn't love the
way that it was done. It felt very written by
a man way of showing that political awakening.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Yes. What I did love though, is when not that
I love her kissing a Nazi boy, but after she
does kiss Wealth toward the beginning, she goes wee, that
was kind of fun, And that is how I react
every time I kiss a man.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Also, I like, I mean, I like Lisla and Maria's
relationship too. I think it's very sweet. I like all
the kids. I mean the kids, Yeah, some of them
kind of blend into each other. Yeah, but I like
the family. Yeah, Lisel. I wish that there could have
been more, not even more real estate and the story
dedicated to her, but just like a little more detail

(01:11:45):
and like less focus on the romantic relationship and more
like what do they say outside the house? What are
they being shielded?

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
I'd be really curious to know what various drafts this
went through, because obviously it's been significantly changed from the
source material because none of it happened that way. But
the fact that Rogers and Hammersigin are two Jewish composers
that are adapting, you know, this anti Nazi story. The
screenwriter of this movie was also a Jewish writer, Ernest Lehman,

(01:12:14):
who wrote so many famous movies. He also wrote west
Side's Story. He was like really good at adapting. He
did west Side Story, he did this, He did Who's
Afraid of Virginia Woolf one of my favorite its. So
you have like a lot of Jewish voices involved in
this production, but not Jewish women, which I think you

(01:12:34):
can sort of feel and like stuff like the loose
threads like the Lesal story were like what is the
teenage girl gonna do date a teenage boy? Done? Like
du where teenage girls are doing so many nefarious things
and you don't know unless you've done it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:52):
It's wild because for who they are, it's like on
the spectrum of like who was writing musicals in the
nineteen fifties and sixties, like Rogers and hammerscign definitely had.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
For how popular they were.

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
Also for Oscar you know, he was on I think
McCarthy's lists because he was associated with communists and socialists
back in the United States back in the days, and
then he had to, like many people be like, oh,
I'm not really with them and figure out ways to
support the movements here in different ways. But for those folks,
like they're always to me, I'm always like, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
I love it, I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
Like there's you know what I mean where they're like
almost there, like Anna and the King and I really
interesting story also a true story, you know, or like
Anna was a real person, right and she like landed
in Staten Island at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
All these Stetn Island intersections are just my.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
Favorite Madam's webs and connects them all madams webs.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
Yes, and so like all of these things like South Pacific,
Like there are these women in these really interesting historical
moments that before that time are never really talked about
at all, right, like women were just there to be
the wives, and so they are a little bit more complex.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
And then also you like it's.

Speaker 5 (01:14:02):
Like one of the things where you're run running, runing,
You're like, yeah, keep going, and it's like slows down
halfway through because they can't go the full way, and
it's it sucks. But I'm also like it was the
time period. Oh but it sucks.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
I'm like, do we make modern versions of this or
we just leave it alone? I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):
I just think about that all the time when I
think about the works of Rogers and Hammerstein totally.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
And then there's certain I mean, while this is a
terrific adaptation, Brandy Cinderella is still undefeated best Rogers and
Hammerstein adaptation, and we're not taking alternate opinions all that,
but yeah, I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
There is no alternate opinion some of.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Their work has aged great, but like a huge chunk
of their catalog absolutely hasn't. I mean, they're still doing
revivals of these shows. And I know that it's not impossible.
I didn't see it because I don't live in New York,
but I know that Oklahoma recently had a makeover. It
was so good, right, so it's like it is possible.

(01:15:01):
But yeah, like I don't know the answer to your
question of like is it worth it? I don't know.
It seemed like in the case of Oklahoma it was.
But you know, there's certain things. It's just so in
the dna of the musical that you're like, lovely songs.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
But flower drum song, Like no, no, no, there's you.

Speaker 5 (01:15:17):
Can't just change like half of the songs being like
literally having the words oriental in it and like being
about orient and you're just like, no, there's no.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
There's no coming back from that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:27):
Also, they never even.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
Lived in San Francisco, so I'm just like, why are
you writing in San Francisco?

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Yeah, yeah, And there's never really been an attempt to
make the sound of music again is that was this
adapted again?

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Unless you count School of Rock.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
I mean, which I am realizing that the Nazis of
School of Rock are the rich parents.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Oh well, there you go. I mean, where's the lie.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
I know, I know, I think it's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
It's one. We should just call it there.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
That's it. Then the remake of the Sound of Music
was the school. I don't think that they could do
it though, I feel.

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
Like it would be too I mean they you know,
they tried the stage adaptation with Carrie Underwood for the
live right.

Speaker 4 (01:16:16):
Oh god, tragic. I was feeling tragic, but there's like,
there's no I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:16:23):
Think there's ways to do it because it's also so specific.
I think Oklahoma is like it is specific, but also
like it's just like Oklahoma's being a new state is
kind of in the background right when you could remake it,
as opposed to like you can't you know, the Nazi
thing is essential to the story. But also this film
is getting banned in schools, like being played in school district,

(01:16:48):
which is absurd. I don't know if you Also, the
Texas thing is just like people were like, we can't
show that because they're like, we can't talk about Nazism
in schools. But it was like the right wing from
a right wing perspective where they basically didn't want people
to think that Nazism was inherently a bad thing, but
they knew they couldn't say that. And I was just

(01:17:10):
like watching these parents testimony being like, what they won't
show it and they won't do it as a school play.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
That's fucking terrifying, Like for all of the like nitpicking
that is valid to do for this movie, like its
core message is I don't know, it's so scary to think,
like when I know for sure that like a substitute
teacher threw this on for us at some point, and
it was just like the message of it is so indisputable.
The fact that it's discussed that way now is like, well,

(01:17:40):
you know it's an older movie. Maybe their anti Nazi
stance wasn't totally spot on.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
It's like terrifying, No, it's there. Yeah, it's clear in
its present they actually nailed that. Yeah, I mean, and
I thought like having the Max be the way that
he was and that he was like not unsympathetic to

(01:18:07):
the Nazi party, and then every time he said something
like that, Captain von Trapp would like explode in anger
to be like don't say that shit, Like you need
to get on the right side of history, Yes, sir, Like,
what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, because I
mean Max represents the type of person who was just
super like, Well, it doesn't affect me, so I don't

(01:18:29):
really care. And I'm, you know, like just people who
were complicit when awful things are happening. And I appreciated
that he was presented that way and that you had
Von Trapp openly challenging him on a pretty regular basis
throughout the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Yeah, covering this really makes me want to an episode
on Cabaret would be unbelievably messy, because it is a
very messy movie. But I feel like this movie shows
most characters reacting in the best case scenario and they
found the right story of like a family that extracts
itself from complicity and something awful. And also like this

(01:19:09):
family is privileged and you know, it has the resources
and ability to escape with relative ease in comparison to
other people faced with the same circumstances. And that's sort
of more what Cabaret is doing of like, well, what
does a poor person and like working class people caught
in this minor that don't have the resources of the

(01:19:30):
von Trapps to extract themselves. How do you resist? And
like how do you navigate that? And there's like a
whole gradient in Cabaret of people reacting with complicity and
what happens when you resist with less resources, which is
just unfortunately like the kind of stories and like challenges

(01:19:50):
that we should be revisiting right now. Like it's because
of just what tremendous complicity you know, you can be
asked to have on a daily basis, and when it
happens on a long enough timeline, your brain starts to
numb to it and you can't let that happen. I
don't know, I just yeah, it would be a very
long double feature and actually quite depressing. But it is

(01:20:15):
interesting to see these musicals kind of in conversation with
each other, however intentionally about just like watching the slow
encroaching fascistic movement and having to make the choice of
like what are you going to do?

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Yeah, And then you can have watched the producers for Dessert.

Speaker 4 (01:20:38):
Spring Time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
I man, The last thing I wanted to talk about
is something we briefly touched on. But Maria when she
says something like I'm too outspoken and it's one of
my worst qualities. I appreciate that that is framed in
such a way where like we realize that she's wrong,
because every time she is outspoken, we're like rooting for

(01:21:06):
her and we agree with her, and she's correct every
time she's challenging Daddy von Trapp. But you understand why
she thinks that's a bad quality because women were conditioned,
and I'll have always been conditioned to think that if
they are outspoken, if they are headstrong, if they do
challenge authority or challenge anything that's the status quo, that

(01:21:27):
they shouldn't be doing. That they should keep their mouths
shut and you know, stay in their place, stay in
their lane, blah blah blah. So I appreciate that she
would have felt that was a bad quality, to be outspoken,
but that the movie frames her being outspoken as a
positive trait. That I think is the reason that von

(01:21:49):
Trapp's arc manifests the way that it does, because if
she hadn't been outspoken, based on all of the other
governesses that we understood to have been there and clearly
didn't do anything to challenge his like parenting and his
inability to process his grief and be affectionate towards his
children and stuff like that. You would imagine that that

(01:22:11):
family would have just stayed that way, that he would
have been this weird discipline daddy and that the children
would be miserable because of it. Disciplined dad. I feel
like that's a quote from Arrested Development.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Feel very arrested Development, just.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Like a throwaway joke. But I pulled it from somewhere,
and I think it was that. But or I pulled
it from my brain. Who've been saying, who me? Oh,
I'm just disciplined daddies?

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
Sungeon talk talk.

Speaker 4 (01:22:48):
Definitely dogeon talk.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
So Maria being a part of this family and being
so outspoken and challenging his authority and his bad parenting
is obviously like what changes the dynamic of the family.
So I just appreciate that about the movie the end.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
Yeahni, is there anything else you wanted to touch on?

Speaker 5 (01:23:13):
I mean, I feel like, no, My most unpopular opinion
is probably about this is that, like I kind of
love the youngest children, Brigita and Marta.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
And like those are my favorite of all the children.

Speaker 5 (01:23:26):
They're just adorable and they're kind of just like living
in this world where they're like I feel like the
youngest three are just like we actually don't know what's
going on, but we're cute as like, and we're just
gonna say the most cutest things, and then we're also
gonna like, so long.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
Farewell the youngest once hit it at the park, come on,
come on.

Speaker 5 (01:23:47):
So I just I'm like, not a big fan of
liseel or. I don't even actually remember the oldest. I
just remember the youngest names. I'm like, hell, yeah, mart Yeah,
so that's my that's my hot take.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Yeah, I'm on board, come on board. This movie does
pass the Bechdel test way more than you would guess. Yeah,
the whole song, how do you solve a problem? Like
Maria passes the Bechdel test, it's just nuns being like,
why is our coworkers so awesome? But hard to pend down?

Speaker 4 (01:24:16):
We let her like cloud.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
Gorgeous genderless compliments. Yes, Von Trapp is very often the
subject of discussion. However, there's conversations between Maria and the Baroness,
Maria and Lisel like Maria and other kids that passes
between the sisters. I mean, there's a whole and also,
oh uh, character we haven't shouted out yet. The housekeeper

(01:24:41):
for the von Trapps.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Rol Schmidt, who I was fantasizing that at one point
she'd be like, please call me Schmitty. I think it's
hilarious if a if a housekeeper was like, I'm Schmitty,
my friends call me Schmitty.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
I like Froshmitt because she ultimately at the end of
the day, she just wants to talk shit. Like she
was a gossip is. She has to talk shit. And
I was like, that is like that's what you do
at work, where she's like, oh you girl, here, here's
why everyone fucking sucks. I was like, yeah, that's what
I do at a new job. Yea, So they talk shit.

(01:25:18):
Sometimes it's about men, sometimes it's not. Yeah, this movie has,
I think, for especially for its time, like a really
impressive interest in what the women think.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Yes, could have been more.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
I again would love to have seen more about the
political journey outside of this very wealthy family. But given
what we have, I mean, I still think it's very impressive.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
Yeah. Now to rate it on our nipple scale our
skill where we rate the movie zero to five nipples
based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
I don't know maybe like three and a half of nipples.
I think the movie has a lot going for it.

(01:26:06):
As we discussed, I wish it allowed Maria to be
more active in that last thirty minutes or so when
they're escaping. I mean, the movie completely rewriting the narrative
of how that marriage when as far as like, no,
it was a mutually loving thing where they fell in
love with each other and not a man forcing a

(01:26:28):
nun to marry him, right because she was she was
a good mommy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
Yeah, it wasn't even clear like if he had extremely
romantic feelings for her, if he's like this makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Right, if it was just like a practical like I
need a woman to take care of my children because
I don't know how to do that hard to say.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
But also he was a good dad. It's weird, oh.

Speaker 5 (01:26:48):
Yeah, right, but he raised children to be doctors too,
like you know, good conscience.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Right, he raised anti Nazi doctors.

Speaker 4 (01:26:56):
And that's it's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
That's pretty so.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
I will.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
But yeah, definitely an oversimplification. Yeah, whatever that relationship dynamic was.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
So actually, now that I think about it, I might
bring it down to like three or maybe even two
and a half nipples based on that, like because that's
such a movie like way, because movies are obsessed with
like let's throw in a love story that it usually
doesn't need to be there or is a complete rewriting
of history.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
And musicals are worse than it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
Yeah, right, So the more I think about it, the
more it ly grosses me out. But the character of
Maria herself is like very enjoyable, and I like the
way that she's characterized. I do wish there was more
of her, maybe just bonding with the children, and we
like some of those children, because I kept mixing up,
like who is Luisa? Even what does she do? Like

(01:27:54):
I guess she's like kind of the she's like a
little stinker, but a lot of the kids are a
little stinkers, so like I couldn't differentiate her from some
of those other kids. Brigida, I was struggling with. The
young one was easy because she's like visibly the smallest
and the youngest, and they give her some cute things
to do. But I don't know, maybe I just wish
that some of the some of the girls were a
little bit more characterized. But overall, I like Julie Andrews.

(01:28:21):
So the day. At the end of the day, team
and team, I think I'll give the movie three nipples.
I'm not sure if that's being generous or not or
not generous enough. Who's to say. My brain doesn't really
work anymore, But I'll give the movie three nipples. One
will go to Julie Andrews and once again just shout
out to Shrek two and her monumental role in.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
That her most iconic performance.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
And that of course leads to a little plug for
our Shrek Tannic tour that's happening in May. So go
to our link tree for the tickets to Shrek Tannic.
I'll give one nipple to Lisil saying after a kiss,
and I'll give a final nipple to the nuns who

(01:29:07):
broke the Nazis cars.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
Oh, unbelievable. Yeah, I'm gonna go three and a half.
I think I've ted to go a little higher. I mean,
I feel like, for its time, this is an anti
Nazi story that was a gigantic kit that was helmed
mainly by Jewish writers and composers. I feel like the
political elements of this story have aged very well. Like

(01:29:33):
we were talking about before, there's a ton of encroaching
fascistic political movements to resist, preferably while singing beautiful music,
so that the core message of the movie is still unfortunate.
I mean, still very very fresh. Maria. I feel like, yeah,
we do have like a little bit of a situation

(01:29:53):
where there's a lot of women in this movie. We
know a little bit about all of them. Maria is
it's the Maria Show, but we kind of pulled back
from her a little bit at the end. I just
wish we knew more about the other women in this world.
Everyone has moments, everyone has distinct personalities, except for some
of the kids, which is like I'm more kind of
fine with. But I could have used a shift on

(01:30:16):
the Leasel story. I also think would be curious, like
we see Captain von Trapp navigating grief and we don't
really get the same perspective with the kids. And true, yeah,
I don't know. I just think that there is an
unusual amount of space given to women acting independently. It's

(01:30:36):
like there's whole songs about it and it's celebrated, and
I think it's great. I'm going to give it three
and a half nipples. I could give one to Julie Andrews.
I'm going to give one to Julie Andrews as the
Queen of Genovia I like to give and the queen
of far far away there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
Hasn't she been a queen or a caretaker of children?

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Yes, And of course I'm getting the rest of my
nipples to the nuns that cut the brakes of the
Nazis Nalini.

Speaker 5 (01:31:06):
I would probably read it it probably a four nipples,
mostly because I mean, you said a lot of it
where it's like just like the film of its time.
And also I feel like the song like songs are
also a musical, so like evolving around a man or
a woman being in love or not, and like she
doesn't actually sing that much about being in love.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
No, that's true, kind of not at all, Like I
don't think at all.

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
I'm going up to fourtune only hard.

Speaker 5 (01:31:35):
Like she's thinking about goats before goat heard hers before
she's thinking about love, and like that's unprecedented for like
a musical of its time, right, like with the love
story that they have, they could.

Speaker 4 (01:31:48):
Have berated us with.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
It's true, I.

Speaker 4 (01:31:51):
Don't even want to think about it, Like I don't
want to even think.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
About Okay, I'm going up to four you can.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
And obviously to Julie Andrews the Queena.

Speaker 5 (01:32:01):
Genovia, and I'm going to give one nipple to Bita too.

Speaker 4 (01:32:06):
Hell yeah, I have a soft spot in my heart
for the little ones.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Ali, Thank you so much for joining us today. This
was such a fun conversation. Yea, thank you for your
service in the sound of music itself. Yes, I wish
we could have seen it.

Speaker 4 (01:32:23):
Thank you. It was a sight to see me in
a habit. I'll say that. A lot of people though,
when I was walking.

Speaker 5 (01:32:31):
Down the hallways of this high school were like, oh
are you and sister act just because I was black,
and I was like, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:32:35):
Here we go. Money it was. It was still amazing
and thanks you all for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
Of course, where can we find you online? Where can
we find your work?

Speaker 5 (01:32:44):
Yes, you can find me on Instagram at nell Stamp
as well as you can find Working Families Party at
Working Families on all social media, or you can text
to get involved and find out more. You can text
WFP the Letters to three zero four zero three if
you want to get involved with our work in China

(01:33:06):
fight modern flashism.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:33:09):
Yeah, you can find us on all the regular places Instagram, Twitter,
increasingly rarely, you can sign up for our Patreon aka Matreon,
where for five dollars a month you can get two
bonus episodes and access to the full one hundred and

(01:33:29):
fifty plus back catalog episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
WOWI Wow. You can also get our merch which is
all designed by a one Jamie Loftus that's at teapublic
dot com. Slash the Bechdel Cast, and you can go
to our link tree where there are the tickets to
our Shrek Tannic Tour. There is our letterboxed, there is

(01:33:54):
our Patreon link, all that good stuff. And with that,
should we go to the hills which are alive with
the sound of music.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,
hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman,
edited by Mola Boord. Our theme song was composed by
Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo in
Merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

(01:34:29):
to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please
visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast

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