The Wolf of Wall Street

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women
and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
My name is Caitlin. I was expecting you to say
your last name too. I got really.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh no, I'm trying to like pivot to like Beyonce. Okay,
I'm trying to become what is it eponymous?

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Oh? Is that what that means?

Speaker 4 (00:37):
I don't know. No, mononymous, I just oh, mama, monogamous, monogamous.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I mean not for everyone, but certainly for me. Not
for me, Bregny know. My name is Jamie Loftis what's
your name?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
God?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
My name is Caitlin Dubronte. Okay, fine. It's our show
where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. This is
a special episode because this is our live episode on
the Wolf of Wall Street, Yes, which we recorded live

(01:22):
in Sacramento at STAB Comedy Theater many many months ago.
This was February.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's wild. I feel like, honestly, I was gonna be like,
I feel like basically the same person, but like you know,
it was a really really fun show.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
It was Yes, thank you to everyone who came out.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
It was an absolute blast.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
We covered the Wolf of Wall Street, which you know
if you have clicked onto the b Caitlin had this
idea to do this, and I think it was rather
brilliant because if you were not aware, it was a
while ago.

Speaker 5 (01:54):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
We did a tour that was called the Barbie Tour,
but in Sacramento we had two show times because the
first one sold out because we're so extremely popular, and
so we had to think of a second movie to cover,
and Caitlin suggested the Wolf of Wall Street? Could you
unpack that for us?

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, I was like, okay, Barbie is all about Margot
Robbie wearing pink. In what other movies does Margot Robbie
wear pink? And the obvious choice was Wolf of Wall Street,
a movie that pairs perfectly with Barbie.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
We can all agree, and I think it is fascinating
in terms of career trajectory that often the first movie,
especially for like a bombshell actress like Margaret Robbie is,
who is also tremendously talented and a really great producer
and like very smart. But you'll often see I feel

(02:47):
like them burst onto the scene in roles that are
fundamentally exploitative in a way that is not their fault.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
For sure.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Margot Robbie is amazing in this movie. She's also quite young,
and then seeing almost ten years later, seeing her in
the most successful movie of the year that she also
produced that she had a huge hand and that is
you can listen to our Barbie episode that for the
most part, you know, is like a kind of a

(03:16):
good feminism one oh one type movie that normally doesn't
do as well without a huge star behind it. So
and we were doing it in Sacramento, which felt Greta
Gerwig coded. You know, it was all it was all
kind of connected.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Her web connects them all.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
If Margaret Robbie had been in Madam Web, I mean no,
She's only in the DC universe, right, I guess she
didn't really fuck with Marvel.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Marvel's kind of a liability at this point, I mean true. Well,
speaking of Margaret Robbie's career trajectory, the difference between.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Thank God, her character back.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
You brought it up her character in Suicide Squad versus
her character in Birds of Prey. She's playing the same character,
but the way that character is portrayed and the you know,
amount of agency that character has and the way that
character is framed, et cetera a huge difference.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
And it's so interesting that she executive produced one of
those movies and not the other.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Very interesting.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I Margaret, Robbie Stan Sorry, if anyone's upset, get a life.
We covered of Wall Street is the point, and we
also have covered you know, a number of Martin Scorsese
movies in the last year or so, and so we
were excited to cover it because it was a movie
that we both like. Yes, which if you know that

(04:45):
we're a host of the Bechdel Cast, feels confusing. We
get into it. Yeah, it was a very fun show.
And before you get into our live show recording, and
then we have some pickups later on because it is
a very complicated movie to talk about. We had more
to say that we didn't have time for. But first, Caitlin,

(05:06):
what the hell is the Bechdel Test?

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Tell me ge whiz, I'll tell you. It is a
meametric tell Me, created by Alison Bechdel, first appearing in
her comic Likes to Watch out For in nineteen eighty five,
appearing as a bit a goof. It was never intended
to be the media metric that it came to be,
and there are many versions of the tests. The one

(05:29):
that we have cultivated over the years is this, do
two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they
speak to each other? And is their conversation about something
other than a man? If so, it passes the Bechdel test. Also,
we like it when it's a substantial conversation and not
just throwaway dialogue. So that is what we spend I

(05:53):
don't know, one to three minutes of every episode talking
about and the rest is other stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
We just wanted to thank everyone who came to Sacramento
almost six months ago now coming to this show. Thank
you to STAB and let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Let's see really quick. Our entry point into the live
show is right after we have crawled on stage as
if we were God.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I forgot on waylots. That was a good idea.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
That was a great idea. We executed it perfectly and
it was awesome.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
That was a good idea.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
And then the other thing to do right at the
very top here is to place a content slash trigger
warning because there is discussion of sexual assault, marital rape,
things of that nature that we will be discussing throughout
the episode. So please enjoy our live episode of the

(06:57):
Wolf of Wall streetcast.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, welcome, thank you for coming to this very important
dissertation on the Wolf of Wall Street. Yes, at nine
point thirty on a Friday night. Feels good, feels right.
I have my toes out like it's a wiki feed
nightmare medals, I know.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Just kind of like letting lose, you know. Well, that's
what the quayludes will do to you. We're both on
so many lutes right now.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
We'll get you a loose Wow.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Okay. Oh. My name is Caitlyn Toronte, my.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Name is Shamie Loftus, and this is our our podcast
where we talk about your favorite movies from an intersectional
feminist lens, and tonight we're operating at a very high
difficulty level, so enjoy whatever you're about to here. Give
it up if you listen to the show. Okay, wow,

(07:54):
free applause.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Okay, give it up.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
If you've been dragged here and you're like, I don't
know what's happening. Yeah, okay. I love when someone is
confidently unaware of what's happening. That's beautiful. That's Lyude's energy.
Hell yeah, well that's uh. You'll you'll get the feel
for it. We trust you.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
And tonight we were talking about The Wolf of Wall Street.
Yes we are, and well I was thinking of how
Easter ray and Barbie says, oh, are you guys watching
The Godfather? And that was me in college when this
movie came out, to all five hundred guys in the
fucking filthy punk house I lived in, being like, oh

(08:39):
are you all watching The Wolf of Wall Street? And
they were like, no, we're playing The Last of Us
and it's feminist, Okay, shut up. And I was like, okay, whatever,
I don't have PTSD about college at all.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Jamie, what's your your relationship?

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I guess I just gave away about it. Yeah,
this movie came out when I was in college. It
was for a long time it was my favorite Martin
Scuarssese movie, but it was because I had not yet
seen Goodfellas and so, which this movie is kind of Fellows.

(09:16):
But yeah, I saw it, and I really I mean,
as far as our show it does horribly. As far
as a movie to watch, I really like it. This
movie is fucking wild. It's like it's so long, but
and so much happens, and sometimes something so horrible happens

(09:39):
that it's like the water so hot, it's cold again,
and you're like, I think I'm okay with this, so like,
whatever is happening, it's so funny, it's so fucked up. Yeah,
I mean this is like, this is a not a
comfort movie. It's viscerally upsetting to watch. But this is
like a movie I've seen many times. I watched it

(10:00):
like on DVD in college, and I'll come back to
it every so often. And there's so many iconic moments,
one of which we just attempted to.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Reinab and we nailed it.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
I knew exactly what was going on. No, they were like, no,
they're going to do performance, all right. No, I didn't
sign up for this, but no, I mean, it's a
movie I really enjoy watching and I've never been forced
to discuss before, and so it's just gonna be it's
gonna be an adventure. And the reason that we chose

(10:33):
this movie to do the same night as Barbie because
we're doing two shows here is because it's another movie
where Marcot Robbie wears pink and there's no denying it.
And I didn't know that this movie also the same
cinematographer as Barbie. So this man has turned various lenses
on Margot Robbie over the years. So yeah, Caitlin, was

(10:55):
your history with woofl Fall Street?

Speaker 3 (10:58):
I don't seen it once before prepping for this episode,
I think that I was like, it's too long. I
can't watch it, b RB. I have to watch Titanic instead,
which is longer.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
It would have been cool if Wall Street sunk? Whoa
would have been? Matthew McConaughey turns to the camera and
it's like, I think you may get your headline, mister
Wall Street Journal, and then Wall Street sinks. Mm hmmm.
That would have been fun.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, So I don't know. I saw it once and
I was like, this is Goodfellas, but longer, So I'll
just keep watching good Fellas, I guess instead. No, I
like the movie too. It's it's a ten out of
ten on Caitlin's rombometer.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
We we've been like watching it in our various hotel
rooms and just like chuckling to ourselves and be like, hey,
you remember the part where he has too many wudes,
which is every part, and then we just start laughing.
This movie is like funnier than it has any right
to be.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah. Yes, and a lot of that humor comes from
very problematic sources. Yes, and we'll talk about them.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes. Wait, what what if you? This is? This is
me finding out that not everything that happens in the
Wolf of wall Street is good?

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Nor what nor.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
The Wolf of Wall Street's my friend Margot Robbie reading
the script.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Nor he's such a bad wolf. Well, anyway, should I
do the recap?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yes? Okay, Oh that's so I want. Okay, I'm going
to react as only as Margot Robbie reading me the
script for the first time. Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
All right, so here's here's the recap for The Wolf
of Wall Street. I am going to gloss over some
stuff and leave some stuff out because it is a
three hour movie.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yes, please don't come to up to us after this.
This is my favorite when we do live shows, or
even when we get like emails after episodes come out
where someone is like, hey, did you know that there
was actually a thirty second scene that you didn't reference,
and I was like, thank you so much, Scott, I'm assuming, yes,
thank you. The show is free.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Fuck up that said, we love all of you. Thank
you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yes, please buy merche here.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Okay. So this movie is based on a true story
about real life person Jordan Belfour. The year is nineteen
eighty seven. I have been alive for one year. Me
not so much.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Don't even exist. Fantasy's young.

Speaker 6 (14:03):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
So we meet Jordan Belfort played by Leonardo DiCaprio. He
is an uber rich stockbroker. He's twenty six years old
when we meet him, and.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
It's like he's like, c W twenty six years old. Oh,
I love. I love when someone looks in your face
in camera says I'm twenty six, and like I'm looking
at you. I you look great, but you're not twenty six.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Okay. So he makes nearly a million dollars a week
at his money job.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Wait, a million dollars a week. I bet his peepy's
so bad. Wow, that's like the subtext of every line
of dialogue on this He's like, by the way, my
peepee huge.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
He he's got it all. He's got a beautiful his wife.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
His wife's wife, she's like that's me.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Her name is Naomi and she is played by Marcot Robbie.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
The Wolf is of Wolf straight.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
They have two kids. They live on a huge estate.
There's a bunch of cars and yachts and private jets
and all of that. He's also he also has addictions
to drugs, especially quayludes. Ever heard of them?

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, I had not heard of them before I saw
the Wolf of bus Street. Really no, I didn't know.
I was very sheltered. Wow, the first time I saw
someone smoke weed, I cried.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
And I was like old.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I was like sick last week, it was today. I
didn't know what ludes were. And then when I learned
what ludes were, I just like love to just say
it ludes or so. I was just reminding you my
dog I used to have like all the ludes lore
attached to my dog, where I was like, well, my

(16:03):
dog is a millionaire. Here's what he does. He goes
to Beverly Hills and he just digs in rich people's
yards and gets their hid and ludes, and then he
re sells them on the Black market, and the people
he sells them to are the lud dudes.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Anyways, I think louds is a fun word, but I
don't want to take one.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Well, I don't think you can't, but they don't. They
don't exp.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Well, they didn't stop Leo from getting them.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
It's true, but that was like thirty ish years ago.
I'm like him, I could get them, and then I
would sink my boat. There is a boat that sinks
in this mood. That's foreshadowing. It's something that's gonna we're
gonna see a little later.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Just sing spoiling for Titanic and the Wolf lost.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Anyway, So he loves ludes and that's one of his
main personality traits. He also has three federal agencies after him.
He's obsessed with money and gambling and alcohol and all
this stuff.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, Friday Night Lights is looking for him. I don't
know what that guy.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
I know.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
His name is Kyle, Kyle Chandler, two first names. Don't
love that and already am ilias, but it's yeah. I
was like, oh, Friday Night Ludes love him.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
So we flashed back a few years prior where we
learn how Jordan got to this point. He's a starry
eyed twenty two year old. He's newly married, but not
to Margot Robbie.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
To Kristin Miliotti Melatti. I actually Daliatti. No, no one, okay,
all right, as long as no one cares in this movie.
If you're a brunette, no one cares, don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
So he shows up on Wall Street in New York City,
Ever heard of it? And star it's working for Mark Hannah,
played by Matthew McConaughey. Let me just say the sheer
panic I experienced when Matthew McConaughey shows up on screen,
and I was like, oh my god, I forgot he
was in this movie? How much I hate him so much?

(18:16):
I hate Matthew McConaughey so deeply, And I was like,
is he in this whole movie? I hate it already.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
But they only yeah, it's like a glorified cameo. Although
two things. First, he because I think if there was
any Leonardo DiCaprio performance that deserved in Oscar, it was
this one. It's so good. But Matthew McConaughey beat him
this year for Dallas Buyer's Club, which I've never seen Also,

(18:44):
this is my favorite flex in the entire world. For
one single week, I knocked Matthew McConaughey off the New
York Times bestsellers list, and the week after he was back,
and I was gone but for one week. And I
did it for you.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Thank you, thank you. I did it for you, babe.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I did it for you.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
I appreciate it. Hashtag by raw Dog by Jamie Loftis.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
But no, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
I wonder a really generous smattering of applause from three people.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
All I have to say is I am ambivalent to Kandy.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
I don't know why I hate him so much. He
just he irritates me so badly. Anyway, he luckily he's
not in the movie that much, but he is there
long enough to tell Jordan how to make a shitload
of money as a stockbroker, which is break off, jerking off. Yes,
that's literally number one. Yeah, doing a lot of cocaine.

(19:45):
And Jordan was like, I see your cocaine, and I
raise you, ludes.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I like that. It's I think this is the right
order where he's like, jerk off a lot, do a
lot of cocaine, and develop positive business relationships and you're
like sure in that.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Except he doesn't even say that. He's just like, you're
gonna basically want to exploit your clients.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Well that's their version of positive business relationship. Yea.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Yeah. So then for the next six months, Jordan learns
the ropes and then on his first day as a
licensed broker, Black Monday happens, which I was only one
years old, so I don't remember it, but you.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Were affected your boss, baby like, no, my biby stocks.
That's that's baby, Margot Rabbie.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
From what I gather from the movie because I did
not bother to look it up. Black Monday was like
a mini stock market crash.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, there is a whole mini series about it starring
Don Cheatle. Whoa, it's a fact. Okay, moving on.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Thank you. Uh So, the firm that he worked for
at the time goes out of business, and then he
gets another job at a crappy firm in Long Island
that trades penny stocks. But he makes a fifty percent
commission on these versus the one percent commission he made
on Wall Street on the blue stock.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
He's like, now I'm gonna scam poor people, and we're like, wow,
this guy's asses cool.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
And he's a very persuasive salesman. So he starts making
quite a bit of money. And then one day he
meets a guy named Donnie Azov played by Jonah Hill.
He approaches Jordan because he notices Jordan's expensive car, and
he's like, I will work for you and quit my
job right now.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I love this whole performance is Jonah Hill leading with
his veneers. He's just his And I know it is
like a character thing because they mentioned that this whoever
this guy's based on, had veneers because they're like he
his teeth were the same length. Is scary, but like
the veneers are so distracting. I just I as I

(21:58):
notice veneers, I like.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, it's the Jerry Brockheimer.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's the Jerry Berckheimer effect. Or if you get or
it's like if you are on SNL for a third season,
your teeth your mouth changes. It's like I noticed these
things and I just don't understand because it's like veneers
are so I'm assuming they're so expensive, right, but then
it just looks like one continuous tooth, Like why do

(22:24):
they look like shit if they cost so much money?
And then I whenever you see someone with veneers. You
just imagine because you know, to get veneers, have you
ever seen a picture with someone without their veneers? It's
a little baniicula.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
It's really bad. Wait what isicula? What is that?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
It's a it's a series of ya novels about a
rabbit that's a vampire.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Is that that point?

Speaker 2 (22:48):
No? Okay, everyone's having a meltdown.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
We've lost underneath.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
To get veneers, they shave your normal teeth down to
little freaky points and then they put your little doll
ty though what and then you're Jonah Hill in the movie,
and then you have new like Pete davidson mouth, Look
at Pete Davidson's mouth ten years ago. It's different. I'm

(23:14):
here to tell you, Okay. Anyways, his veneers.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Wow, their prominence shocking. Yes. So anyway, Donnie Azov starts
working with Jordan, but he's weird and he has veneers
and he married.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
His cousin, which is true that I'm I know, well,
because this is like when you see based on a
true story, You're like, chances are that's horseshit. I did
like a cursory overview of like comparing fact and truth,
and I mean like most of this movie is true

(23:49):
and weirdly, and this is like a criticism we have
of the movie that we're gonna talk about. But when
Jordan Bellefort saw this movie after personally profiting author of
it because he got a million dollars in his rights
being bought right all this shit, so uh, but he
saw it and he was like, oh yeah, and I
was worse and so yeah, no, that guy did marry

(24:11):
his first cousin. Wow, So now you know that oop oops,
I don't think think on purpose, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Trus oops, I married my cousin. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
When you're at the end, when you're saying your valves,
you can't just say I do you say? Oops? I
mean that's any marriage though.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
True. All right, So they're buds now and they open
a firm together and hire some dudes, some lude dudes
dude mostly weed dealers, uh, and they all become brokers.
And then we see that the first scene where he's like,

(24:54):
sell me a pen and he's like okay, and he doesn't,
and we're like wow, and we're.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Like wow, it's a metaphor for future moments in the movie.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
So then Jordan's his first wife, Teresa Brunette you know
she's done for She's Kristin Miliotti is what we've decided.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Maybe not sure. I love her. I think she's like
an incredible character actor, and I until today have never
had to say her last name out loud.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, she's great. Yes. So she has reservations about Jordan's
job because he mostly sells these penny stocks to working
in middle class people, and she would feel better if
he sold them to rich people who can afford to
lose money if those companies go under, and.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
She has every woman in this movie has an incredible
Long Island accent. But my favorite line from her specifically
is when right before Jordan was like Leonardo DiCaprio goes
to like the penny stocks. He's like, I don't know,
maybe I should just be a stock boy. I'm a loser.

(26:05):
And then she's like, you're not a stock boy, you're
a stockbroker. And then he's like, you're right, my wife,
I'm going to work at toilet like you said. It's nice.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, love for And then he takes her advice and
he reinvents the company. It's now called Stratton Oakmont and
they're going to target rich people but still stell crappy
penny stocks.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Do we know why it's called Stratton Oakmont because it
just sounds like something that sounds like a company.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
I don't know. Yeah, he doesn't explain where the name
comes from. Also, the mascot is a lion, and it's like,
the movie isn't called The Lion of Wall Street. No,
good point, kateline, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I'm so smart as the medium, but.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Please by our merch No, I'm kidding, all right. So
Stratton Oakmont grows as a company and before long they
are making many, many millions of dollars. And then Forbes
does a profile on Jordan and the company, which is
not flattering, but his appearance in Forbes like legitimizes the company.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, they're like, oh, he's he's a true scammer. He's
he's a newsworthy criminal. We want to work for him.
So then there's like a million guys that are like,
my baby is big at his door, and he's like, yes.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yes, great, And then Jordan hires his dad, Max, played
by Rob Reiner.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I love that sentence. You can't talk me out of
loving that sentence. It's great.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
And he's giving a great performance and his job is
to be the accountant.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
I don't want to walk around and be like, Jordan,
don't do that.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
What the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 2 (28:00):
And I love that they're just like paying Rob Reiner
to almost have a heart attack in every scene. I
think he is supposed to be like keeping track of
the finances, some sort of I don't know. I've worked
at the Massachusetts Comptroller's office for three years and I
don't know what they were doing over there, but it
seems something like that. Sure, something financial.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, he's like, I guess monitoring the company's expenses. And
what they're spending money on is very expensive dinners, parties,
sex workers, drugs, especially coeludes. And the workplace is just
like a complete circus. Men are screaming, they're breaking things.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Everyone's fucking each other.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yes, they're treating little people and women like objects and animals.
There's a chimpanzee. It felt so bad for it. And yeah,
the whole place is a mess. And then one day
at a company Partyjordan meets Naomi. That's again Margot Robbie's character.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
That's my gool Roby's character.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
You're welcome, and she is so hot that Donnie takes
out his penis and jerks off with it in the
middle of the party.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yes, ludes were involved.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
And then Jordan starts having an affair with Naomi he
takes out to dinner. His wife Teresa finds out pretty quickly,
so then Jordan files for a divorce and.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Starts to don't see her anymore.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
She's no longer in the movie. Yes, he starts living
with Naomi pretty much immediately. They get married soon after.
We also learn about all the very illegal things that
Jordan is getting up to at Stratton Oakmont.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
We sort of do I do appreciate it if like,
this movie paved the way for oh gosh, what's the
other money movie? The movie the money movie where they're
like looking and being like money is so weird, right,
what's that movie?

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (30:09):
The Big Yeah, yeah, that's every five seconds they're like money,
what and you're like, yeah, yeah, I get it. Well.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Then there's also the one that came up pretty recently
called Dumb Money And did I see it in theaters?
I did?

Speaker 2 (30:24):
You did?

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Are they are?

Speaker 2 (30:25):
They always looking at the screen and being like, what
the hell is up with money? They are the whole
genre of movie. It's just like white guys being like
money is so weird.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
In this movie.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
I mean, well, and I like The Big Short, but yeah,
it's I feel like I appreciate as someone with three
brain cells, uh that the the crimes like you sort
of know what they are. But sometimes like they'll just
break the fourth wall and be like, so what's happening
is like bad? I'm like, that should happen in every movie.
That would be so helpful for me, Like I would

(31:01):
really get through, like I don't know, it really would
have helped me get through Anatomy of a Fall if
they if they just were like whatever the French version
for this is bad. I'm like, I'm not smarted. I
need you to tell me.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah. Yeah, he does that a lot. But the things
that they're doing, I think are like insider trade, yeare
and other things, and it's like involving Steve Madden shoes.
It's very yeah yeah, yes, but all of these shady
dealings earned him enough money to like buy that estate

(31:34):
and a yacht and all of that stuff. And then
we cut to eighteen months later, Jordan and Naomi have
a baby, a boss baby.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
If you will, a Greg Greg.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
She gets Gregnan and has a Greg yes, and there's
a scene where Naomi suspects him of cheating, she threatens
to withhold sex. She puts her shoe on his head.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Right, and we know this scene and it's a scene.
It's a scene, and we love it. And that is
the same cinematographer that framed all of Barbie.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And uh huh.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
And so the human experience is so complicated you could say.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
You know he has range.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
He does, he does, and so does Margaret Robbie and
of so true.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Okay, So the next big move for Stratton Oakmont is
finding companies that they can take public, and they do
that with Steve Madden and they make.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
You ever have is Steve Madden? I think I still
see him at the mall.

Speaker 6 (32:33):
The mall.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Yeah, he's got those chunky shoes at the mall.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
That's nice.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
He's expanded. Also, I bought a pair of Steve Actually,
well you guys at the at the live show. You'll
get this. Maybe I'll cut this out of the what.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Are You about? Episode?

Speaker 3 (32:51):
So a few months ago I went to the mall,
the Glendale Galleria, the famous mall, and I went in
to Steve Madden because I needed a pair of shoes
and for a party. And then I went to the
sales person and I said I need a pair of
shoes for a party, and she's like, how about these ones?

(33:11):
How about these? And I was like yeah, I don't know.
I'm looking for like this kind of more specific thing
and she's like, well, what kind of party is it?
And I was like it's a sex party.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Oh, I know this right, yes.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
And then she was so freaking cool. She didn't even care.
She was like, Oh, we'll talk about to Steve Madden
about this all the time. It's kind of a Steve
Madden regular thing, even bat and eyelash. I was like
so scandalized to tell her, and she was just like, oh, well, okay,
what about those ones? And I was like.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
I love that. I also love you and that you
told her what you were getting them, because.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Igot need to say that at all. In fact, it
was me flexing and be like, yeah, I'm going to
a fuck party.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I like at the same mom I regular I frequent
the croc store and if anyone ever was like I
was like, hey, I'm looking for something to walk in circles.
Do you have a recommendation? And they're like, yeah, there's
only one shoe here, pick a fucking collar, get out
of my face, get a gibbet, get a widget, whatever.

(34:18):
I have Barbie crocks everything.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Oh yeah, they're really nice.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
They're just dirty. Sorry, anyways, shoes are anyway.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
I bought my sex party shoes and she was not impressed.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I mean, that's really cool on both of your parts.
I think everyone's operating at a very high level.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
They're not doing it like that over the Croc store.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
I say that what if you They're like, look, what
function do you need these crocs for in your party?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I do have crocs with heels, so I'm not saying
it's impossible. Whoa, Yeah, I wore Croc platforms to a
wedding and I was the best man at the weddings.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Wow, this was a good tangent. I think I'm keeping
it in that we're shoes now. They're at my house,
my home.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I don't know what answer I was expecting.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
No, I brought them with me.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
They're still they got lost in the tangle, is I
think what I expected? I lost them fucking I lost
air pods, fucking ones. Oh not because not because they
were in I don't know you anything there, but that

(35:39):
actually reminds me of a Lener DiCaprio story. Wait, does
everyone know we're going with this? There's a oh gosh,
I'm gonna need I'm gonna need an assist from the
audience remembering. But there is a DiCaprio because you know,
this movie doesn't make sense in that I think that
Christian Melode is over twenty five years old, so of
course he has to break up with her. It makes sense,
Margaret ib he's twenty two in this movie. Of course

(36:01):
he has to marry her. That's the DiCaprio way. He
is a bit evil, Yeah, but there is some like
weird folk tale about him that he only fucks wearing headphones. Whoa, Yeah,
he's like wearing headphones whilst fucking listening to I think, like,
is there like it's what wait?

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Wait he listens to his own movies?

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Which ones? Is he like blasting the aviator?

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Like what is he?

Speaker 2 (36:35):
What?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Does anyway I find I thought it was like scary
industrial music or something. I thought it was like clang
clang clank, like he's like, yeah, it's like me fucking
what if?

Speaker 3 (36:48):
I was like, oh wait, when I go to these
sex parties, I have headphones, and I'm listening to the
Bechtel Cast, the horniest show.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
In the wear Well, Okay, wait, keep summerizing. I'm gonna
just google Leonardo DiCaprio headphones.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Okay, okay. So there's a whole Steve Madden thing that
make a bunch of money off of it on this agent.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Meanwhile, the FBI has launched an investigation. Did you find
something out?

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yes, okay, okay, this is from the mirror, so grain
of salt. Leonardo DiCaprio uses headphones and vapes during sex?

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Well, is the other thing? Vapes?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Vape sex?

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yes, Tabloid articles are so impossible. Although the Oscar winning
actor forty seven had appeared in other blockbuster movies such
as What It's Eating, Gilbert Grape and This Boy's Life
Is a Younger teen, I'm like, I don't need to
know how he became famous. What's in the headphones? What's
in the headphones?

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Folks?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Okay, he's.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Keep going, Okay, I'll.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Provide live update, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Meanwhile, the FBI has launched an investigation of Jordan and
the company sty update.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Okay, Mgmt.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I feel tremendous relief just knowing the truth. Everyone was wrong.
The answer was shitty early twenty tens music. It was MGMT.
He's listening to Time to pretend, well he's having sex,

(38:41):
you know, walk home with that really think about that. Wow,
I don't know, like why, I do feel like a
weight has been lifted from me.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
I mean, I'm glad that he doesn't listen to his
monologues from Titanic. I guess I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
And I'm also glad that he doesn't listen to pipes
clanking like I for some reason that he did MGMT.
I'm like, oh, so he's a fucking loser. Like that's
no offense to MGMT. It's just like a weird thing
to listen to while fucking you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
They had hid well anyway, So the FBI has launched
an investigation of the company. Kyle Chandler is leading it.
Jordan meets with him to be like, TI, he I'm
not doing anything illegal, but Chandler Nope, Kyle Chandler is like.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Coach Friday night lights. Yes, yes, He's like, these Friday
nights are about to light you better be careful, ye
and he's like, okay, Titanic and then movie continues.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Then Jordan goes to Switzerland to hide some money in
a Swiss bank account. He uses Naomi's British aunt, Emma.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Okay, she's awesome.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
She's awesome, and she plays a character in Say It
with Me Now patting to too?

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Who is she? And Paddington too does she also almost
fuck her niece's husband.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
No, but she is Phoenix Buchanan's agent. Oh, that of
course is the huge brant character for all of the
Paddington heads out there. Doesn't seem to be anyone here
in the audience, but the Late.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Show loves Paddington.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Okay, So they move all this money into Swiss bank accounts.
Then we get the famous quaylude scene where Jordan and
Donnie takes some like very rare, extra powerful fifteen year
old quayludes. They're crawling around, Jordan's crashing his car into
everything they're worried about, like FBI has tapped their phones

(40:46):
and Donnie's on the touch devhone.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, it is so funny to me because it's like,
I think that his performance is amazing, and then whenever
his choice is whenever he gets too high, he starts
to sound like Cartman. He's like default, Like He's like,
I can't do a Cartman, but he sounds like Cartman.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, he's like cheese poops too.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Okay, you do like that, right? I kind of forget
this is another DiCaprio being a fucking creep thing. But
there is like a clip I've seen many times where
Leonardo DiCaprio for some reason can like summarize the entire
first season of Euphoria on the red carpet and everyone
was like, wait, why does he know that? And then

(41:35):
they're like, because he dates twenty three year olds, he
dates the target demographic for Euphoria. But he was like, yeah,
you know Euphoria. I think when ru Rue is really
going through it, and you're like, what the fuck is
going on with him?

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Fucked up guy, truly all right. So to avoid going
to jail, he's about to cut a deal with the SEC,
which would require him to step down as head of
his company. But then he's like, just kidding, bitch, I'm
gonna stay.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
I like that speed, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
You're like okay. Everyone's like, woo, we love our boss
so much.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
We love our boss.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
And lou.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
The loud Duds were wild for that.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
They loved it, and this means that the Fed's start
subpoena ing is that a word?

Speaker 5 (42:26):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Jordan and his colleagues, but they're all very uncooperative. Jordan
and Donnie go to Italy then on Jordan's yacht, but
then they learn the Aunt Betty dies and the twenty
million dollars in the Swiss bank account that's under her name.
That money is now kind of like stuck there unless

(42:47):
they get to Switzerland immediately. So they take the yacht
through some treacherous seawater.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, Iceberg, get codd, I mean water.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Hello, we've got Leo in the water.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Nothing goes well and so things you know to be expected.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yes, exactly. The yacht capsizes, they almost die, and this
is a wake up call for Jordan. He realizes he
needs to kind of straighten out his life.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yes, because he's begging Jonah Hill to get ludes from
the yacht basement and then Jonah Hill brings up I
really like this scene. Jonahill brings up this like ziploc
bag of wet luds.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
It's brutal and he's just like mainlining them as they're
crashing into the ocean y. So then he gets sober
and he starts doing these like how to Get rich seminars,
but the FBI eventually busts him. There's this whole like
Benny Hanna thing that I didn't really understand, but everyone's
basically ratting each other out. There's a scene where Naomi

(43:54):
tells him that she's gonna leave him and take their kids.
There's a lot to unpack there, but it all kind
of culminates with Jordan ratting on his friends. He goes
to jail for a few years in like a white
collar resort prison, and then the movie ends the tennis jail, yes,

(44:17):
And then the movie ends with a cameo from the
real Jordan Belfort introducing Leonardo DiCaprio. Jordan Belfort at a
seminar in New Zealand where he's going to teach people
how to sell pens or something.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
They're bad at it the Caitlin's famous Freecy.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
Then gosh, three hour movie, Oh God Exhausted.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
So where should we start?

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Oh my gosh, Well, okay, this is another one of
Martin Scorsese, or as I like to call him, Marty scores.
One of his movies. It was. I thought it was
hilarious when I wrote it down. You wrote it down, Yeah,
I did. Okay, he tends to make movie. Well, there's

(45:19):
two movies in particular which we reference that. It's about
an kind of ordinary but ambitious guy from New York.
He gets rich, he builds an empire, he does a
bunch of drugs, he cheats on his wife, and then
kind of loses everything because he's doing a bunch of
illegal stuff, but he doesn't rot in jail because he's

(45:40):
still rich. And then he also like rats out all
of his friends. These are this is the same plot
for Wolf of wall Street and Goodfellas, except that I
don't think that the filmmaking and slash the movie of
Wolf of wall Street is as critical of the horrible
things that Jordan Belford does in wolfel wall Street as

(46:01):
they are of the horrible things that Henry Hill does
in Goodfellas. Like I think that Martin Scorsese generally does
a pretty good job of being like, look, how these
men might seem really like cool and powerful at first
because they have money and drugs and access to women
and all the things that like men are conditioned to
think make them cool and powerful. And like good at

(46:25):
being a man. But then as the story goes on,
we learn that, oh, they're actually horrible people. They're greedy,
they're misogynists, they're homophobic, they're racists, they're ablest, all this,
you know, the list goes on, and then after some
combination of like male hubris and male fragility, we see
their empire in their lives like completely crumble around them.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Right, But it doesn't even I mean, I think like
the difference. It's so frustrating because I feel like when
we were talking about Goodfellas on the Matreon do we
have Matrons And we were talking about Goodfellas six months
or so ago. A lot of the points we were
talking about had to do with the fact that, like
with Scorsese movies and with a lot of these movies

(47:10):
that like feature these really like central toxic male characters
that sometimes they are very good movies that are making
good commentary, but it's the audience takeaway and the fan
culture that surrounds this movie that is genuinely doing its
due diligence of making a point that it becomes this
really complicated thing. And so we both really love Goodfellas

(47:32):
and felt like we're like, well, this like there's a
lot of fucking misogynist assholes who love Goodfellas because they
didn't hear what we heard from it and what it
seems like, and like Scorsese has made points are the
point of the movie, but I can't I can't quite
get there for this movie. I don't see that same
level of criticism or message. And it feels connected to

(47:56):
the fact that Jordan Belford is like involved in the production.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Right, because it feels to me, it feels like the
Wolf of Wall Street basically shares the same like disrespect
and contempt for women that the characters do ye because
like the way the movie just generally treats women. It's
like set dressing, they're naked all the time, they're giving
blow jobs. There's uh, you know, the headless women of

(48:20):
Hollywood cinematography is like the way we see it most
of the time on screen. They're either they're nagging, they're
being withholding or conniving or spiteful, often without contact. I
mean with Marko Ratt, like the most prominent women we
have in the movie, or Margaret Robbie character, like we
meet her.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
When she's like giving road head. You don't even see
her face like it's ridiculous, and then when you do
see her, it's shot like a commercial and I don't know,
im Yeah, like I would guess that the explanation that
you would be given is like, well, we're seeing women
like they do, but it's never meaningfully challenged and it's
not like I feel like the thing I love about

(48:59):
Good Fellas is that you do get insight. You do
get into the women's heads in multiple points. You know
how they're feeling, even when they're being treated like shit,
which they were within the context of the movie and
within the culture of the movie, Like you've got a
chance to understand how they were feeling, and you've got
like whole scenes where they were responding to their treatment,

(49:22):
and you it's just like you just don't you get
it a little bit in this movie, but it's far
less and it just doesn't seem fair. And I also
think like Casino is another kind of version of this
narrative that I like better.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
I don't remember it at all. Shrine Stone incredible, but
but you're right, like there's a whole sequence in Goodfellows
and we're only talking about Goodfellows so much because of
like the very obvious parallels between the two movies, and
because again, like there's a whole sequence in Goodfellows where
the point of view completely shifts from Henry Hill to

(49:59):
Karen Hill. Yeah, and we hear her voiceover, and we
hear her thoughts and feelings on what like her husband
is doing. And that same perspective of like the Naomi
character is not afforded to her in Wolf Wall Street
at all. It just is mostly hyper sexualizing her, hyper
objectifying her. We don't know all that much about her

(50:23):
and her interests and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
There are scenes where she stands up for herself and
we know she's right, like when she's accusing Jordan of
cheating on her. We know she's right, and she knows
she's right, Like, she's not made to be so like
I at least I can't even say I appreciate, but
like when she is upset with him, it's not like
the movie is presenting her as unreasonable, Like we know

(50:45):
that she's right.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
I I So I would kind of argue that to
say that in that scene, yes, she's she's she's calling
him out, she's being like, you're cheating on me, and
she is, and she's absolutely right, But then he he
kind of like gets the upper hand on her because
she's doing that thing where she's like saying that she's
gonna withhold sex from him. And she's like, I'm gonna

(51:08):
put my I'm gonna show you my puss all the time,
but you can't touch it. I'm sorry I said all
of that just now.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
It just adds a why. But there was to say puss.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
I couldn't think of any better way to phrase it.
So she's like, here's my puss, and but you don't
touch it. And it seems like wow, this is like
she's like exercising autonomy and power over him. But then
he's like, oh, you think you're so clever. Well, I
actually have this hidden camera and the two guys named Rocco,

(51:42):
who are my security guys.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
I've never met it never come back.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
Yeah, they're actually watching you right now and they can
see your vulva and she's like, oh no. And then
it kind of like the way the movie frames that,
it's it's almost like the you see the power dynamic
shifting within that scene. And then I feel like, because
she gets humiliated, the movie almost frames that is like
and she was wrong to try to withhold sex from

(52:08):
this awesome guy.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
I disagree with that, but I also like, I don't know.
I mean, I think that the reason we're having this
disagreement is because we're not given enough to make a
meaningful decision. I feel like what we're what we're getting
with her character is we are getting hyper sexualization. We're
getting and then we're getting like small moments of clear

(52:32):
domestic abuse and that is like and I and we're
getting that verbally like to me, that scene of like
you're actually being surveilled and she gets upset and leaves,
like that's clear domestic abuse. And I don't know, Like
I feel like everyone's gonna apply their own lens onto that.
But there are moments where it's like she is trying
to regain the upper hand and then she loses it

(52:53):
because he has so much more than she does, and
it's she's like she's trapped there, and it's infuriating to
see her be trapped there, and every time she tries
to extract herself, he throws whatever he can at her
to make her stay. And I wish that there was
care taken in that story because it feels very real.

(53:15):
The movie is not very interested in it because the
movie to an extent needs you to stay invested in
him being cool. But I don't know I would. I'm
very like, I can't really upset watching the scenes between them,
because it does seem like and I don't know, like
I feel like these are like domestic violence depictions and

(53:36):
like emotional coercion. There's a scene towards the end where
she is saying she doesn't want to have sex with him,
and then you know, he's being like, come on, come on,
come on, come on, come on, and then they do.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
I think that that's a rape scene that the movie
does realizes a rape scene, though.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Well, the thing is like, I don't think that the
I don't know what the movie thinks at a lot
of points, and it's and and that is that's bad.
If you don't know how the movie's stance on marital rape,
that's really bad. I think that, like in Margot Robbie's performance,
you can feel like that there is a lot of

(54:13):
pain and frustration, but that's not where the movie's interests lie,
which is frustrating because, like we're saying, there are Scarsese
movies about similar themes where that interest does exist and
so I was curious. I don't know, like I couldn't
fully figure this out. My suspicion is that it has
to do with Jordan Belfort, right, because this was based

(54:35):
on his memoir also called The Wolf of Wall Street,
and I know that, like, there there are a lot
of opinions on this movie that is like, this is
like a takedown of the excesses of capitalism, all this shit.
You know, there's a lot of quotes from DiCaprio and
Scorsese to this effect. But at the end of the day,

(54:56):
Jordan Belfort made a million dollars off of this movie. Exists,
He's in the movie. He publicly likes the movie, and
you're like, well, then probably the movie's not accomplishing what
it should have if he loves it. On the other hand,
Naomi is based on his ex wife. His ex wife Nadine,

(55:19):
who also likes the movie. She has an interesting second
act if you're interested. She got remarried. She's been remarried
happily for over twenty years. Amazing. Good for her. But
her name's Nadine Mcaluso, and she is now a TikTok.

Speaker 7 (55:39):
Therapist question mark, which is like, wow, okay, but she
has seen the movie and has commented on it extensively
on her therapy TikTok.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
But she also did enjoy the movie. She said, quote,
my ex husband exploited our life and the way he
wanted to. And I'm using that engine to help people,
to empower them and teach them and to break the
stigma of mental health, and that I don't know. She'd
like met with Margot Robbie when Margat Robbie was preparing
for the part. Felt like it was that the instances

(56:15):
of domestic violence were shown authentically, but the movie's attention
did not stay with it. And it's so frustrating because
it's like, you know that this director is capable of that,
but he's not doing it here. Damn exactly. Shoot, can
we talk about Teresa really quick?

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Sure? Sure? I love her truly justice for Teresa. I
love Teresa.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
I want the best for her. She I uh god,
Brunette wives are always getting divorced. It's just it's not good.
I felt like that that was more shrewd comment of
like how horrible and like completely vapid Jordan was. Is
he's still alive and he's into crypto now shocking?

Speaker 3 (57:05):
No, one.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Although, wait, you know what's the wildest thing I learned
about him when I was researching his life and times
I tried to listen to his audiobook and then I
quickly wanted to run into the ocean, so I didn't
get very far. But so when he went to tennis jail,
his tennis jail cellmate was Tommy Chong, and he and

(57:28):
Tommy Chong are hanging out in Tennis jail, and Tommy
Chong is like, you should write a book about this,
and that's why we have Wolf of Wall Street. It's
all Tommy Chong's fault, isn't that tom I don't have
a strong I don't know anything about it. Whatever. Anyways,
that's why that is. But I don't know. I feel
like it's very inherent to who Jordan is and who

(57:50):
to who Leonardo DiCaprio is to view women as status symbols,
to the extent that this person who has stood by
him through virtually everything, he is so willing to discard
her for something that for someone who he views as
a status symbol, and then he goes on to ruin

(58:11):
her life because he is incapable of seeing women as people.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
He also basically steals her idea to when he like
reinvents the company to be like, I'm gonna target rich
people and sell penny stocks to them. That was her idea.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
She could have been involved. I mean, I guess I'm not.
I'm like, she should have been involved in his crimes.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Yeah, that's that option.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
She should have girl bossed her way to hell as well.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Just to like close the loop on Jordan, I guess,
like the A, I think what the movie does well
is that he is clearly this like portrait of like
hyper masculine panic where everything he does is like please
think about my, my gigantic peep. Like it's so clearly

(59:02):
entrenched in insecurity and a need to prove himself, and
he will hurt anyone, including himself. And I think that
like the way the addiction is shown in this movie
is often played for laughs the lutsies, they are funny,
and then also you're like, this guy is suffering all
but he's like built himself up on this masculine platform

(59:24):
where no one will say no to him. So I
don't know, I just the way that masculinity is shown
and a lot of different insecurity, like I feel like
you don't get a lot in the way of anything
but white men in this movie.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
For sure.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
There's no way around that you do get I think
the full gradient of white man insecurity, and that you
get a lot of different shades of gray in terms
of like the way Jonah Hill is insecure about being
married to his cousin is different than the way that
Leonardo DiCaprio kidnaps his own daughter. They're like, it's just

(01:00:01):
all it's it's all very very fucked up. But I
don't know, you do get to see a lot of
flavors of the worst man in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
It's true, I mean, and I think to the movie's credit,
it does. Yeah, it shows many examples of like look
how pathetic and embarrassing men?

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Yes see, like yes, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
My favorite example of this is the first time he
has sex with Naomi. First of all, he like goes
to drop her off and his voiceover is like, how
do I get invited into her apartment? Oh my god,
I don't know. And then she's like, do you want
to come up for some tea? And then he's like hot,
hot tea, Oh god. And then he goes up to
her apartment and then she comes out and she's naked,

(01:00:44):
and he's like, as you can imagine, I fucked her
brains out for eleven seconds. It's you know, and no
shame in that if that's when you come.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Kayla's standing here and there's Steve Madden.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
She's like, I say that to all the people that
I talked to at my sex parties, and I say,
if you come after eleven seconds, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
But but it's I think that, like that's to me.
Like what Martin Scorsese does better than almost any director
is like show how embarrassing masculinity is to watch in practice.
Like he is great at embarrassing some of our greatest
movie stars. Like there's like I mean, there's the whole thing,

(01:01:36):
and we'll talk about this and pickups, but how like
you know, capitalism is the central cult and religion that
this movie revolves around, and it's like made so embarrassing
by like the Matthew McConaughey like.

Speaker 7 (01:01:53):
Like yeah, later, like you're just.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Like this is so gross, so and that like some
of the most privileged, violent, cruel people in the world
are also just like you just like physically recoil watching
them navigate the world like they're fucking gross, and he's
really good at showing that. But unfortunately in this movie,

(01:02:19):
I feel like it's just where I've seen it argued
that women are objectified beyond reproach in some of his movies.
That actually kind of does feel true for this one,
and I can't get my boy Marty out of this one.
Like it's just really really bad for every woman in

(01:02:39):
this movie. But you know, more to come. It's getting late,
so let's have some fun.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Let's do it. Hi, everyone, it's future and Future Jamie
here coming in with those pickups that we promised. Ye freakin' ha,

(01:03:06):
And it was right here during the live show that
we presented a super cut that I edited of Leonardo
DiCaprio fully clothed in water, something that you may have
also seen if you came to our Titanic shows on
the Shrek Tannic tour.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
It's an absolutely evergreen piece of media. It's perfect, Thank
you so much, perfect vibe.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
It's my pride and joy, it's my magnum opus, my
mona Lisa. But it didn't translate well to the audio
medium of podcasting. So instead we're jumping in here just
to pick up with extra discussion we wanted to have
that we didn't have time for in the live show.
I do want to start by clarifying what I meant

(01:03:53):
in that scene where Jordan and Naomi have sex for
the first time. I don't want to sound like I
am shaming anyone who experiences premature ejaculation or anything like that.
What I was referring to was this sort of obsession
with like male virility and stamina that many men use

(01:04:15):
to sort of measure their masculinity or their quote unquote manhood, right,
and certainly someone like Jordan Belfort would be concerned with that.
People like this are like, oh I can fuck for hours,
blah blah blah, the same way that men like Jordan
Belfort are obsessed with like dick measure and contests, either

(01:04:37):
literal or figurative. Like we were kind of alluding to
that earlier in the episode, and it all stems from,
you know, their interpretation and performance of masculinity, their kind
of like idea of cultural markers of what makes a
manly man. And so that's just what I was commenting on.

(01:05:00):
I don't want to have that be misinterpreted. Is like
any judgment passing, it's more just like these are the
type of men who are obsessed with like these markers
of masculinity.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Well, and for what it's worth, I mean, I think
that that was clear, and also that that ties into
what we were talking about in the episode where Scorsese's
movies are uniquely good at making this like versus you know,
the amount of time that you can last during sex
being a reflection on who you are as just the

(01:05:35):
idea that the masculine ideal is to be able to
fuck for forty five hours in a row, just like
the absurdity of masculinity, and how there is like this
insecurity and ego that factors into so many of his characters,
and that's like very much present in Jordan, which brings

(01:05:58):
me to something that we reference talking about in the
episode that I just wanted to sort of put a
little bow on, which is something that I think this
movie does very well before we get to a few
things that we didn't have time for that maybe did
not do as well. Is I think that this movie
does a good job in showing, you know, and portraying

(01:06:22):
in a way that's like very funny and entertaining, which
it's a movie it should like showing capitalism as a
death cult essentially, and like not just a death cult,
but a really embarrassing death cult with rituals that are
essentially really humiliating to watch. We were talking about like
the Matthew McConaughey beating his chest in the middle of

(01:06:45):
like his liquid lunch, and again I think that as
we were discussing the tools and the ways that we
are shown in the movie, that capitalism is an embarreeing
death cult for those at the top. The way that
we're showing it is sometimes a little too tongue in cheek,

(01:07:06):
you know, and takes advantage of making jokes at the
expense of people struggling with addiction, amongst many, many, many
other things. This movie makes light of a lot of
things that I think that it makes total sense to
not be okay with. They not want to engage with
the movie for that reason. But on a fundamental level,
I do feel like this movie makes capitalism look embarrassing,

(01:07:30):
and that's something that you know, it shouldn't be a
big ask from a movie, but you know, we see
so many biopicks because at the end of the day,
like we were talking about, I think one of the
weaknesses of this movie is or like, the biggest weakness
of this movie is that it is a biopic that
involved the subject, which almost never gives you a good biopick.

(01:07:55):
And I like this movie, but you know, the involvement
of the person, particularly when they are the villain of
the movie is I just think it's just like at
odds with making a movie. I would almost rather this
movie have created a Jordan Belfoort type character that wouldn't

(01:08:17):
have required him being involved, right whatever, you know, I
understand why there is. You have the advantage of connecting
it to a specific moment in history, and you get
a lot of more cultural specificity by not having to
YadA YadA. But the monkey pop of that is that

(01:08:37):
you then have to have Jordan Pelfort's consent. You have
to involve him, you have to compensate him, and you
have to have his approval on certain things, which means
that you're not going to be able to have an adequate,
you know, come to Jesus moment about anything about his life,
including his involvement in the capitalism death cult that was

(01:08:58):
Wall Street at this time. All the things considered, though,
I do feel like it did better than your average movie.
It's a Martin Scorsese movie. He's really good at that,
and so I tepit thumbs up to that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
I think, right, I was thinking about how a movie
that might be either an interesting companion piece to Wolf
of Wall Street or just a movie that you might
want to watch instead that kind of takes place in
a similar world but focuses on a different set of

(01:09:32):
people who sort of occupy this world is Hustlers, which
we've also covered on the show totally because you know,
one of our gripes that we discussed during the live
show portion of this is that this movie fails to
give any kind of interiority to any of the women,
especially Naomi, that would be the character that would make
most sense, or Teresa even too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think both of them are made
out to be. You know, it's like an almost not
on the Donna horror complex explicitly, like there is more
nuance to their story than that, but like the Scorned
and the home Wrecker, you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Know, and both just as people who were married to
this guy and what their experience was like. And you
can criticize wealthy white women and their complicity in capitalism
and stuff like that. But I also, if you're gonna
make this movie, I would have liked to see more

(01:10:32):
about who these characters are, how they are affected by
the rampant, toxic masculinity that surrounds them. But the movie, again,
as we've discussed, doesn't really have much interest in that.
So anyway, watch Hustlers, is what I'm saying. I wanted

(01:10:53):
to talk a little bit about just some of the
other women who we see on the screen in a
vaguely significant way. It's not many of them, but I
wanted to mention the sales assistant Daniel Harrison at Stratton Oakwant.
She's the person who agrees to have her head shaved

(01:11:16):
for ten thousand dollars and then has also agreed to
use that money for breast implants number one. She's the
baldest woman in charge, except that she is not in charge.
Oh God, I wish too. I was like, Okay, can
we learn anything else about her? She's really only in
that one scene, and I was curious, like, Okay, was
this a case of a woman doing whatever she felt

(01:11:39):
she needed to do to be respected by the men
around her. Because sacrifices like that, especially in this era
of women in the workplace that was often the only
way to survive in the workplace as a woman in
a predominantly male space. And you know, I could see
something like that motivating her choices to have her head

(01:12:02):
shaved and make that choice, But the movie doesn't have
any interest in exploring her motivation in that situation, right,
and again, it could have been like another way to
criticize the capitalist machine that this movie criticizes otherwise, But
I don't know, just it felt like a missed opportunity
to me. I would have liked to have a little

(01:12:23):
bit more insight there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
I agree again, just knowing that Scorsese has like I
think with some directors you sort of have the like, well,
but that would never happen. But with Scorsese, you know
that it can and has happened, you know, and that
he also has a knack for I wouldn't say he's
the best at it, but has a knack for and
an instinct to include people who are swept up in

(01:12:50):
this fucking nightmare. And you're you're totally right, that is
like a great end to discuss, like attempting to survive
in that environment as a woman, and especially you know,
there's a million examples of this in you know, girl
boss culture at large, right, but of you know, the
humiliations and extreme moral compromises one has to make to

(01:13:15):
be able to participate as a woman, and then also
the moral compromises you make on the other end of
dismissing people and dismissing marginal people more marginalized than yourself,
and dismissing people exactly like yourself in order to continue
to like participate in this fucked up So yeah, there,
this movie feels littered with interesting opportunities to explore. Characters

(01:13:38):
that are going through are arguably a more complicated, you know,
moral dilemma than any of the men in this movie
you are, I feel like another example of that is
Aunt Emma. We didn't really have time to get into
in this movie. What did you think of Aunt Emma?
What did you make of.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
I don't know. I was too distracted by the fact
that actor is in Paddington too.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
But yes, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
I'd like to me The most memorable scene is when
they're sitting on the park bench together on Emma and
Jordan Belfort and he's like, oh my god, is she
hitting on me? Like the language she's using she seems
like she's coming on to me, and then it's obviously
him misinterpreting the situation the way that men often misinterpret

(01:14:27):
sexual interest. Then he starts to come on to her,
and then you get her voice over to be like,
oh my god, is he hitting on me? And I
thought it was like an interesting and like decent demonstration
of like a man who is so entitled assuming things
kind of based on nothing, and then like the sort

(01:14:50):
of thought process that the recipient of that has to
go through. And then you know, you see her being like, no, thanks,
please don't kiss me, because he's he tries to surprise
kiss her, and then she's like, don't do that though,
And yeah, I thought that scene was handled pretty well.

(01:15:12):
But other than that, I mean, we don't really get
much of that character, So I don't know, what do
you think?

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Yeah, I thought again, like there are missed opportunities. I
don't expect the movie to like pivot to be like
what is going on with Aunt Emma? Because but I
think that's another example of a character who is knowingly
complicit in a lot and still treated in this very
both misogynists and agist way, and that that is an

(01:15:42):
opportunity to explore this character. But like we were saying,
and it is hard to not compare this to Scorsese's
other movies because there is this through line of like,
how masculinity is embarrassing and ruining your life. Again, We're
good Fellas stands over here, and I guess it's it's

(01:16:05):
just hard to not get past the pivot to Karen's
perspective because it just makes you want that level of
care put into all of these Like I don't object
to Scorsese's you know, clear affinity for wanting to examine
these nucleuses of male power, but there are examples of

(01:16:28):
him having care for people who exist within that little
bubble in complicated ways, and this movie is just like
not a great example of it. Yeah, ant Ema, I
think again, it's just ultimately a missed opportunity. I think
it's a great performance, but I feel like her character
is almost used as a way to show how Jordan

(01:16:54):
is embarrassing versus actually fleshing out her character, which is
a shame because we're given a lot of interesting like nuggets, right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
So yeah, yeah, I felt kind of the same way
about the character, who I think is Donnie's his wife, Hildy.
But every time she's on screen, I'm like, I think
that's the same woman we've seen before there, and I
think that's Donnie's his wife, but I'm not totally sure
because she's never given anything memorable enough to say or

(01:17:29):
do when she does show up that you know who
that character is. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Same goes for Chantal who wait, I don't even know
who she is? The Swiss woman. Oh yeah, like they tape.
But again it's like good performance, a funny beat. I
don't expect the movie to like pivot to her, but
like she is a body and a plot point and

(01:17:55):
that's it, right, the.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Way that every sex worker in this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Not even a plat point, just set dressing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
Right for sure. And I was also upon my rewatch
to like do these pickups. I was especially noticing how
there is almost no woman on screen in the entire
movie who Jordan especially, but you can extend that to oh,
I think pretty much all the male characters that that

(01:18:26):
woman is not sexually harassed or assaulted in some way.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Or just shown. And I want to like carefully phrase
this because I'm not like every woman needs to be
wearing clothes, but right, most women are not wearing clothes,
most men are. True, we let's say it like that
there is Yeah, it is a clear again, It's just
like and I knew we were talking about this extensively
in the live show, but the fact that this movie

(01:18:52):
has the same cinematographers Barbie is just like, Wow, the
range you really can respect women or not it is
It's interesting. I mean, yeah, I guess ultimately with this movie,
I am grateful that it was in the hands of
a good director, because in the hands of a bad director,

(01:19:14):
I think everything we'd be talking about would be ten
times worse.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
Definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
But I would also love to see the Wolf of
Wall Street directed by I mean, this is something that,
oh may I know someone is gonna send us a
message being like this movie. But I don't feel like
there are movies of this budget and this cast that
are this critical of capitalism directed by women Like I
would love to see a big budget critique of capitalism

(01:19:42):
with a director who is not a white guy anyone.
I mean, Sorry to Bother You comes to mind in
terms of like a a more star studed cast of
movie that did very well, very critically successful. But I'm
just like, where is the big budget woman's critique of capitalism.
If it was Barbie, I'm not pleased.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
That that was not critiquing capitalism at all. Ip, the
closest thing I can think of is not a dissimilar
movie to the Wolf of Wall Street, but American Psycho,
right directed by a woman, you know, could be more
critical of capitalism. Yes, I suppose, but.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
I mean not a bad start. I guess I was
just thinking, like ground up not adapted from a man's book,
Like is there a ground up?

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
But also I mean, I don't know whatever. I'm just
talking speculatively now, but I think Scorsese is is really
good with this specific material. But where all of the
stumbling blocks feel like they come from are either his
personal inability to understand the nuanced spots of this movie

(01:20:49):
and and something that we haven't talked about yet or
didn't touch on extensively in the live show, which is
the you know, tremendous amount of casual racism, casual ableism.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Oh yes, stuff that spesual homophobia, you name it, everything.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
You name a marginalized identity. This movie is making a
joke of it. And on one hand, I don't feel
that the movie is endorsing any of these views, and
that I would guess the intention is to demonstrate how
tremendously callous and hateful the people who are driving the

(01:21:27):
plot of this movie are. But on the other hand, again,
there's just a number of movies and Scorsese movies that
make that more clear by giving marginalized people a say
in the plot, which this movie again just fails to
do on a huge scale.

Speaker 3 (01:21:49):
I agree where there are many scenes where slurs are
being thrown around, and I want to kind of zero
in on one in particular in a moment, But there's
so many scenes where Jordan Beuf and his minions, Okay,
he's the grow obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Kevin innocent, Kevin was working for like Ronald Reagan or
whoever this, Oh god, that's even worse than I know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
But he was the most evil one, that's true anyway.
You know, Jordan and his guys are being so casually
again misogynist, racist, homophobic, ablest, hateful of sex workers, you know,
everything in a way that is presented to me too

(01:22:34):
neutrally in many cases where I'm just like, again, the
movie isn't necessarily endorsing or agreeing with these horrible views
that they have, but it's also not criticizing them quite enough.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Yeah, the scene I want.

Speaker 3 (01:22:49):
To zero in on is the scene where Jordan and
his boys are talking about little people. They are speaking
about them as if people are not even human.

Speaker 5 (01:23:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:03):
The language they are using, the like pronouns they're using
to refer to little people is so dehumanizing. It's a
really long scene too, and I'd imagine that the intention
of this scene is to demonstrate how horrible these Wall
Street guys are. But it's also a scene that if

(01:23:26):
you're like a nineteen year old dude, bro, like you're
probably watching it and laughing along with them, and like
the movie is giving you no perspective or any kind
of tools to examine. Oh, maybe what they're saying is wrong,
I guess so.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
I just it's so tricky in that situation because I
think that, like I've struggled with this as a show
as the show goes on, because I don't necessarily think
it is the job of the director to tell you
this is the right versus this is the wrong view.
Sure to speak to your part, like it's a matter
of showing without telling. And I feel like there were.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
The first rolls of screenwriting obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
Exactly exactly, but like when we started the show in
the mid twenty tens, like there was more of a
demand to be explicitly told this is wrong in a
way that does stifle creativity and coherent storytelling. Sure, but
to speak to your part because I agree with you is
like it is not shown adequately, Like I'm not necessarily

(01:24:31):
asking to be told that Jordan Belfort is wrong to
be racist and ableist, Like I trust the audience enough
to know that, But what you need to be doing?
And again, I you can argue what happens in this
movie because things don't end well for Jordan Belfort, you know,

(01:24:52):
he ends up humiliated. It reminds me actually a lot
of tar almost ten years later, of like, you know
how they are just holding on because they have all
of these benefits of whiteness and money and reputation and
power and all this stuff, but they are significantly diminished.
But again, it's like if we're pitt in this with Goodfellas,

(01:25:16):
I feel like that movie shows the consequence of those
prejudices and the effect of that on other people in
a way that this movie doesn't. For most And because
this movie is cast such a wide net, and I'm
guessing that this comes from the source material of just
Jordan Belfourt being the most tremendous piece of shit you

(01:25:39):
can imagine. And the movie doesn't make doesn't even create
a moment for the little people that they are repeatedly
making light of and dehumanizing for the racist comments they're making,
because you don't get any moments with the characters that
are being humiliated and spoken down to. Yeah, like, it

(01:26:03):
does end up not being adequately critical of what the
character is.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Saying, right because in an earlier scene, one that like
I think might open the movie or like it's toward
the beginning, they're doing the thing that they had been
planning in that later scene about basically like catapulting little
people onto a target. And that's the only representation of

(01:26:29):
little people we see in the entire movie. There's no
characterization given to the little people that you do see
on screen for very brief blips. It was just a
really gross way to handle that. And then I mean
there's also that ablest tirade that Donnie goes on where

(01:26:49):
he's talking about what he would do if his children
were disabled, and he's throwing around.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Slurs, presented completely uncredited, right, and we hate Donnie, but
I mean it's the same thing with any of these
and this is it brings me back to like The
Social Network, another movie that I like. But when you
are applying real name, evil people to this and presenting

(01:27:16):
them in a remotely like I feel like it is
it doubles down your responsibility as an artist to demonstrate
that these people are pieces of shit, because it's not
like you can be like, well, it's a fictional like
they're real, they exist, they are alive, and you have

(01:27:37):
cast a charming actor to play them, and so it
is on you to show the consequences of this trum
and and again it's like, the way you can best
show that consequence is by giving voice and humanity to
the people that you're marginalizing, which this refew doescent right.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
So that is Pepe poop pooh. I didn't have a
whole lot else to say that we haven't already talked about.
Do you have anything else?

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
No? I think ultimately we'll talk about this in the conclusion.
But this movie is just like I really liked it
when I first saw it, and then I saw other
Martin Scorsese movies that are doing the same thing better.
And now I would say it is my lower ranking
of Scorsese movies and just critique of capitalism movies. Sure,

(01:28:31):
because it makes a lot of it feels like rookie mistakes.
And I would guess that that has to do with
the involvement of the subject. Yeah, never involve the villain
of your movie as a paid employee of the movie.
Seems to be a no brainer. But for whatever reason,

(01:28:53):
didn't happen here. We don't talk about this in the show.
We are honestly unsure if this movie passes the Bechdel
test or not. It seems to in my notes. I mean,
it seems to have like casually passed.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
But yeah, I'm sure there's an exchange between like Naomi
and Hildy, which is the name of Donnie's his wife,
because there are some scenes where they interact, I think.
But again, like in this three hour movie, there are
women interacting for maybe accumulative ninety seconds or something like

(01:29:36):
barely anything at all. Maybe there's a scene where Naomi
talks to her aunt Emma at the wedding or something,
but it's basically nothing. Even if there might be a
quick technical pass, I would say, spiritually, this movie does not.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Pass at all, nowhere near, nowhere near, and so on
that note, we will toss you back to our live show.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Yeah, we will pick up right as we are about
to do the famous Bechdel cast nipple scale, where we
rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining
it through an intersectional feminist lens. And I'll give the
movie a dot dot dot one nipple for its examination

(01:30:24):
of toxic male behavior and not being afraid to show
the type of men that society like puts on a
pedestal of, like, oh my god, they're so successful. They're
self made, they're millionaires. Look how cool. And they have
all these cars and they have so much sex with women.
Aren't they so cool? Wait? And boat, not to mention boat,

(01:30:50):
and who cares if the boat crashes because of just
getting to the point, right, So I appreciate that the
movie is willing to to be like, actually, people like
that can be huge losers. However, as we've discussed, it
kind of has no interest in how that toxic male

(01:31:11):
behavior affects women, and that's usually who is victimized by
that behavior the most. So it is curious why the
movie wouldn't examine it more, but also, as we've speculated,
it's probably because Jordan Belfort kind of like seems like
he vague. I don't know if he signed off on it,
but they were like, do you want to be in

(01:31:32):
the movie, and he's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
Like, yeah, yes, And he also got he's just like
truly a scammer for as long as he lives, because
he was saying because in the movie, it's like he
owes all of these people, particularly from the penny stocks,
he owes a lot of vulnerable people money. And so
when his memoir started doing well, he's like, I'm going
to give all of my royalties to the people I've wronged.

(01:31:55):
Of course he did not do that. No, Like Jordan
Belford gave twelve dollars to someone once and meanwhile he's
fucking chilling. So I'm yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
Yeah, so he sucks and he's a loser. Wow, brave
of me to say God is act God. But yeah,
the movie has no interest in women or how they
feel about.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
We're intersectionality at all.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
Yes, So yeah, I'm gonna go one nipple and I'll
give it to Teresa. Justice for Teresa.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
You know, a stock boy or a stock broken Wow poetry,
and that was the beginning of the end. Yeah, I
will go I'll go one nipple as well. I think
that this movie like does to some extent, I don't know.
It brings me back to conversations we've had about Goodfellows
as well as about I think about our episode on
the social network where it's like, are we seeing this

(01:32:52):
real life, very very wealthy person and a lot of
the movie we're seeing them as like cool And does
the movie end well for fictional Mark Zuckerberg. Does a
movie end well for fictional Jordan Belford? No, But the
takeaway from the majority of people is that it was
cool to watch.

Speaker 5 (01:33:13):
Including me when I'm watching it and it's like, you know,
I think there should be a feminist militia in the woods,
and I am like, I like this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
It's like yeah, yeah, I don't know what to make
of it. I had a really difficult time putting my
thoughts together to talk about it in this context. I mean,
in a basic way, it's obviously an extremely It's a
movie that is very invested in the patriarchal, capitalistic interests
of very wealthy white men, and so that is mostly

(01:33:44):
who we're seeing. We're seeing them abuse a tremendous amount
of women, and we're seeing them from their perspective, so
it is just like the camera and the story has
basically no interest in women.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Unless they're naked.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
Unless I'm kidding muky Steve Madden, She's easy. That is
how I behave when I go to sex parties, clumping up.
I'm just a horny little devil. I'm walking.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
Meanwhile, I'm walking the streets at night in my crocs,
listening to audio books about the economy.

Speaker 3 (01:34:24):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Yeah, I'm gonna give it one nipple. This movie does
not do much in the way of anything we talk about,
but it has its moments and it is like trying
to do some stuff, but it's just not doing as
well as a lot of movies trying to do the
same things are true, including a lot of Martin's Garsses movies.
So I give it one nipple, and I'm going to
give it to Maco Robi. Yeah. I love her, and

(01:34:48):
I was like, at very least if this movie launched
her career, then I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
True.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
She's great.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
It's true. Well, friends, that's our show, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
With our show Wow, I think we did it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
Thank you for coming. There you have it, listeners. That's
our Wolf of Wall Street episode. Thank you once again
for everyone who came to the live show in Sacramento.
Thanks again to STAB Comedy Theater for having us, and
Jamie y'all, hey sell me this Matreon subscription?

Speaker 2 (01:35:26):
Well, Kitlyn, I'm glad to do so. For five dollars
a month, you can get access to our Matreon aka Patreon.
I usually did it in the reverse, but not today.
It's patreon dot com slash backdalcast where every month Kitlin
and I cover two bonus episodes, just the two of

(01:35:47):
us on a theme, usually of our listeners voting. It's
really fun. This month we are covering action movies directed
by women that were voted on by our life listeners.
Were covering tank Girl and because her Web certainly connects
them all, Madam Web, blame the subscribers. If you have

(01:36:08):
an issue, then you have to subscribe.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
And cast your vote.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
It's an election year. This is the only fun election
you can participate in this year if you live in
the US. But yeah, please subscribe. It's really really fun
and it helps support the show. We really appreciate it.
And not only do you get access to new episodes,
you get access to in a backlog of over one

(01:36:35):
hundred and fifty past episodes, because we've had this going
since twenty seventeen. Get in there.

Speaker 3 (01:36:42):
That was such a good sales pitch, Jamie final, I'll subscribe. Okay,
I'll do it. Thank you, you're a regular, Jordan Bellefort.
Thank you. So cue. Now, now let me sell you
our merch shall I? Yes? Well, first of all, all
you gotta do is go to teapublic dot com slash

(01:37:03):
the Bechdel Cast. So simple, so easy, And then you
just find the designs that a one Jamie loftis designed,
and so you know you're supporting Jamie's art. Okay, hello.
And then there's t shirts, there's pillows, there's mugs, there's stickers,

(01:37:23):
all kinds of stuff that you need and you want
so treat yourself and uh and do it? Is that
a good sale?

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
I think that's good. I think that's good.

Speaker 3 (01:37:36):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
I'm buying that damn peg.

Speaker 7 (01:37:40):
Bye bye bye.

Speaker 3 (01:37:46):
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by
Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited
by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike
Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch
is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to
Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

(01:38:08):
link Tree slash Bechtelcast

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