This Christmas with Miles Gray

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the bel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start
changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello, and welcome to
the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Torante, my name
is Jamie Loftus, and this is a this is our

(00:24):
episode about um, well, it's about a lot of things.
What is it about? I don't know how many years
have we been doing this? Five years? What is it about? Really?
Who are we really? Jamie? Do you ever? Who am
I who? This is the thing that my my boyfriend
will say a lot. This is not passing the Bectel tests,
by the way, but something something my boyfriend will say

(00:44):
a lot about the podcast he likes. I'm like, well
what is that podcast? Like, what is the podcast about?
And he'll say something akin to like, well, it's about this,
but it's really about friendship. And I was like, Okay,
first of all, that's annoying. Second of all, maybe that's
what we'll say from now on. We're like, well, it's
technically about movies, but it's really more about our fringe.

(01:05):
That's so nice speaking, which I, uh, well, wait, we
should say what the podcast is. I was it's going
to be a countdown for me until we can start
talking about the parallels between Idris Elba's character in this
movie and Macavity. Oh my gosh, I had a lot
of a whole analog to how this movie is basically

(01:27):
the movie cats. He's basically well, I I didn't pick
that up, but I was like the Cavity energy. Anyways,
we should say what the podcast is. Okay, this is
our podcast about movies. We examine movies through an intersectional
feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a way
to just inspire the concept of talking about film through

(01:51):
this lens. And Jamie, what on earth is the Bechtel test?
I don't know. Well, in this movie, it's when your
mom comes in your room when you're using a vibrator
and tells you that your career can't keep you warm
at night. But what it technically is, but it technically
is is it's a media metric invented by a queer cartoonist,
Allison Becktel, sometimes called back the Wallace test, that requires,

(02:13):
for our purposes that two people of a marginalized gender
with names speak to each other about something other than
a man. Uh and and most movies don't pass it.
And I would say holiday movies it gets even harder
to pass yeah, because everyone's like, why don't you have
a husband yet, daughter of mine? This a movie does?

(02:35):
I mean, this movie does. Like spoiler, this movie does
pass the backtel test. But there are some really funny ones,
um like when mcdeer comes in and says, your vibrator
isn't going to keep you warm at night, you know,
and she goes mom, and then you're like, well, I
guess maybe, but they talk about batteries, batteries, genderless icon batteries. True,

(02:57):
let's pay our guests in. Yes, we've returning guests. We've
we've rolled down the one am I saying, when the
what is the wording we use? We we've taken down
the embargo. Yes, we've we've unlocked the cage that we
keep all men on. Jesus, So I guess today returning

(03:20):
from you remember him from the Rock episode, which is
where a lot of running gags in our show were
born between Gregnant between his wife, lots of lots of gems.
You could say that the Rock episode was gregnant with
and gave birth to several running gags of the Bad

(03:44):
Book Cast. Anyway, The Ark was a very gregnant episode
ext eight months gregnant, that whole episode, much like this one.
There's a Gregnancy in this one. I was. I was like,
there's better be a Gregnancy in this movie. And you know,
thank god, it's a little late in the game, but
the Greatnescy comes through its present. Um and you know

(04:05):
him as one of the hosts of the Daily Zeitgeist.
It's Miles Gray. Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm I'm I'm truly honored to that you allowed me back.
When you even asked you like, hey, do you want
to talk about a movie on I was like, on
your podcast Bechdel Cast, where my sort is not allowed
At the moment, I was very confused, But you know what,

(04:27):
I'm honored that you have welcomed me back into the
kingdom and offered me safe passage through the cinematic universe. Um.
So yeah, it's always a pleasure. And I happen to
happen to people who I could talk to endlessly about
anything anyway, so it's hardly any kind of a task
for me. So when we decide, I mean, this is
the same. This is happening the same month that Alfred
Molina has been welcomed into the m c U. So,

(04:49):
you know, Miles Gray's no cannon in the bc U.
It takes two appearances to become canonically bc U. Thank
you so much. That's I feel honored. You know, Molina
it has re entered the m c U. Uh now
Miles Gray is entering the b c U. So it
feels like a new day from me, Miles, great Leon
has aunt is here. Also shout out to my sponsors

(05:13):
right theon that gave me, gave me twenty dollars to
change my last name. But it's worth it. That's incredible.
I mean, honestly, I think you could have gotten more.
I don't know. I didn't want to be greedy, you know,
I think, you know, little Company, a little mom and
pop organization, just destabilizing the whole sections of the earth. Um, Miles,
what is your relationship with this Christmas? Well, oddly enough,

(05:38):
which is the movie by the way, this one very
tortured relationship with this current Christmas, with this particular Christmas. Um,
I you know, oddly enough, it's a movie I've watched.
When it came out in two thousand seven, I was
in a really weird place at the time, getting off
of getting out of college to an economy that was

(06:00):
like vaporized, and then also like awful break up where
like I didn't know who the funk I was anymore.
So I was I was. I was watching a lot
of corn unplugged in the dark on my bean bag chair,
especially with with Amy from Evanescence comes out to do
freak on a leash um, So that was sort of like,
that's like the vibe I was operating in, so I

(06:22):
I So I watched it then, and oddly enough, when
you asked me about this Christmas, I was like, I
just watched it last night, like the night before you
had asked me about doing it, So it's I don't know,
it was just it's it's there. But I hadn't seen
it in years, so it was like going into it new, Sure, sure, Jamie,
what about you? Uh. Like many movies, I've seen like

(06:45):
chunks of this movie over the years on like T
n T and like when friends were watching it or
roommates were watching it, but I never like sat down
and watched the the entire thing, which, honestly, I mean
this movie really does like demand a hundred percent of
your attention if you're trying to follow. There's so many storylines.
It's like love that it's love actually level number of storylines,

(07:10):
but worse because they're all in the same house, and
you feel more like, well, I should know everyone because
we're not just like going across the country to these other,
like desperate story lines. I'm like, wait, is that a
kid or a boyfriend or a spouse of the There
are so many times where I'm like, did I miss something?
Do we not know who's who's? Like? What job does

(07:31):
this person have? Whose? Whose child is this? It took
me a second to figure out who. I thought that
it was Kelly's children for a second, but it turns
out it was Regina King's children, and then I was
like did I And then I went back. I'm like, no,
I was just supposed to know that. I was supposed
to know that, right right right. There's also like a
cousin Fred or something that shows up now and then,
but he's like not important at all, but important enough

(07:53):
to take shot at how many kids he has? Like
how many kids? For you? Guys six seven. Also Madere
has six children, Like, what is she passing judgment? At
least she had it with Senior. You know, I guess,
like I think they're trying to make it look like
Fred has a bunch of baby mommy. There's a lot
of weird, shitty tropes in here, but you know, it's
but that's what Christmas movies are about. It's usually not

(08:15):
a nuanced discussion of fucking anything. So and Chris Brown
is there. I really hate to see Chris Brown and there.
It was my pleasure to fast forward through all sixty
thousand Chris Brown musical Monton. Yes, credit to his manager
or agent who basically when they negotiated that was like

(08:37):
he will sing entire songs in this movie and you
will not edit them down one fucking bar. Because yeah,
Chris Brown, this is like I mean, and this is
sort of like shortly before his career and his like
he starts to really be called into question, right, because
that happened in the late two thousand's, But like, yeah,

(08:58):
that was like she's that was a nine. Nay, it
was after this movie, but I don't know exactly when, right, Yeah,
I don't. I mean, he was still you know there
he was still just had minimal tattoos. His neck wasn't
tatted yet. You can always tell like where you're at
because like as the tattoos fielding, and you're like, okay,
now we're getting into like scum Chris Brown phase. Um

(09:21):
so yeah, I don't know, it's he's he definitely brought
people into the theaters that Like when you look at
that line, if you're like, we're letting an algorithm tell
us how we're going to get as many asses into
the seats. Yeah, and he's so prominent on that. I
was looking at the posters where he's like takes up
a third of the poster even though there's twelve people
on the poster. Right right, it's like Chris Brown's this Christmas. Thankfully,

(09:49):
he's actually not in that much of it, like it's
mostly other people. But but almost every second he's on screen,
he's just singing, singing, singing. That said, I enjoyed this movie, Caitlin,
what's your history with this movie? I hadn't seen it before. Um,
I liked it, okay. But generally movies that are like
character driven, family narratives that don't really have a distinct

(10:13):
plot aren't really my type of movie, so it's not
a rump that's kind of rumpy. I would say that
Adris Elba's uh storyline is very rompy. It's like in
Ocean's eleven in the middle of a family movie. They
give you all kinds of you. They give you even
like Star Wars Daddy Issues reconciliation vibe. But there's also

(10:36):
there's like more melo drama than I enjoy in a movie.
So I'm just like I was here for it. I
love I love the melo drama. I'm it's a it's
generally a pass for me. But also and I don't
generally the only Christmas movie I like is Muppet Christmas Carol.
Every other one you liked print too, sort of did

(11:00):
you like? Have you seen New York Christmas Wedding? I
have not seen New York Christmas. The lgbt Q one
that like Netflix put out where it's basically this like
woman who's like about to get married to a man
is visited by an angel who sends her to a
parallel reality where she could have come out to her
best girlfriend that she was in love with and play
out a life where she would have just honored her

(11:21):
like feelings about her friend and had like this beautiful
love affair with this other woman. But then like the
thing ends and it's like all right, now choose. Oh
my god. It's like a very very weird way to
present that sort of quandary for a person of like
this angel being like, Okay, you want to test drive
this other version where you embrace this relationship. Maybe not,
but anyway, those are some steaks I didn't know that existed. Yeah,

(11:45):
check it out. I mean, because this is the thing
I love about Christmas movies is that they're so just.
They can be anything. They can be like sincere and
earnest and you're like, oh, this just happens to be
happening during Christmas. But for me, the best ones are
like absolute trash where there's so many plot holes and
you're being like, they didn't even think when they were
writing this. I for whatever reason, that's like a salve

(12:07):
on my like like tortured creator wounds and don't like
see people can get absolute shit made. It is like
if a Christmas movie took more than forty minutes to write,
it took too long period done. Michael Keaton's Jack Frost
took eleven minutes to write the entire screen. Yeah, that

(12:27):
movie was fully improvised. So I went to high school
with one of the snowboard bullies from that movie. Wait,
I think you've told us this before. That's iconic, that's incredible.
He was Unfortunately, that kid was living in his sister's shadow,
who played the daughter in Jack Frost, And he only
got the part because his sister was one of the leads,
and we made fun of like that's how toxic l

(12:48):
A School was, Like, dude, you only got it because
your sister was a lead fool and you barely You
don't even have like a U five part under five lines, um,
Like I don't know, wow, growing up in l A sense,
I mean yeah, I think it's also jealousy because he
also had like he like brought us snow. I feel
like he bought brought like a snowboard jacket from the

(13:10):
set to school in like the l A heat and
we're like, dude, we get it. So then we just
turned on him or like whatever, bro, your sister got
you the gig roll like a twelve and ship. Well.
One of the things I appreciate about this movie is
that there's l a Christmas representation because so many Christmas
movies take place in like New York or Chicago or

(13:31):
any other place where it's like cold and snow eat
during Christmas time. So I appreciated that you have just like,
you know, mild weather Christmas, like you know, yeah, like
Jacket's it, and you know, some people can overdo it.
I think it's like if it was truly Angelina, though,
we would be dressing like it was negative forty below

(13:51):
just fully costplay. Yeah, because like our Overton window in
terms of what's hot or cold is completely screwed up.
So we're like, yeah, what is it? It's below Vandy
where mittens right now? Oh? Good grief? Um, should I
do the recap story to the best of my ability? Yeah,

(14:13):
it's kind of a lot. There's a lot going on.
It's a lot curious how you're going to do it
with it and have it be very cogent and succinct. Yeah,
everything's happening, and yet nothing at all is happening. The
stakes from character to character are so wildly different that
like they're just like wait a second. There's like in
a wall pregnancy scandal, and then there's someone who's like

(14:34):
should I get back into the dating world, Like everyone
stas I got a camera, but mom doesn't like that
I sing? Are these steaks? And then like Rosalba is
like being beaten up in every same season. But Buddies
with his like transgressors. He's got to like they act
like middle school bullies, but they are like thirty eight

(14:57):
years old. They're like, yeah, moan, dude, They're gonna get me.
Like this sounds like a seventh grade problem that he's having.
I think Joe Biden wrote these characters. You know. It
was Mo and Dude, you know bad dudes, you know,
associates of corn Pop. Yeah, messing with my boy Quentin Jr.
Who was a jazz pianist. Like all right, Joe, this

(15:19):
sounds very contrived, Like all right, Grandpa, let's go to bed, right,
Um okay. So this Christmas the film is about the
wet Field family. Madear is the matriarch. She has six
sons and daughters who are all grown up and who
are all getting together for Christmas for the first time

(15:41):
in four years. And because this is a more kind
of character driven story than a plot driven story, my
recap might be kind of all over the place. So
just bear with me here. But um so, it's a
it's a few days before Christmas. Madear that's Loretta Divines
character lives in l A. She owns a dry cleaners,

(16:03):
and her romantic partner, Joe played by Delroy Lindo, is
the kind of step father figure to her kids, although
they are not married and a lot of them don't
know that Joe lives in the house with Madear, and
everyone's being very like two thousand and seven about it
in a way that is very weird to me. I
was just like, why can't just be happy for Medear?

(16:25):
Like why are we whatever? The main thing is like, well,
we'll get to this, but Quentin, you just Elba's character
hates Joe and like that's why she's like keeping into
secret anyway. It just Elba's character is secretly twelve years old.
That's like, my that's the only way I can rationalize
some of his some of his choices where he's like
I don't get it. Why aren't you married to my

(16:45):
dad anymore? And it's like, this is twelve year old culture.
This is not like oh and literally telling Joe you're
not my daddy. Oh okay, sir, we got that part
when we knew that. I think you're also in adult
and we don't need to talk like that right now,
right Like, I feel like people should come down. The
things that people come down Quentin hard for, like being

(17:09):
a musician, don't make sense. And the things that they
take really easy on him, like being aggressive towards Joe,
who has never done a thing. People are just like, well,
you know, he's sad about the divorce. You're like, he
needs to he needs to, you know, grow up, figure
out by by all measures. Quentin Senior sounds like a
piece of ship. If I was on the family to

(17:30):
be a fucking musician. Uh, that's not an honorable person.
Sorry so, but but again that's but that's the thing,
like we don't have these fucked up relationships with our parents,
and even though on paper it's bad, we still idolize
them and wrong. There's so much depth to that. It's true.
It's true. I like Joe. I like Joe too. I

(17:51):
love Delroy Lindo, you know, and whenever when he puts
a good performance, like it felt weird. He felt like
he was classing up the joint acting like I was like, oh,
you're too good right now, this is a little this
is a little bit of holiday trash, and you're like
earnest performances like Shakespearean wait to the whole thing, even
like when he would have it out with interest elbow,

(18:12):
these tense moments were like he's like, you probably should
stay away while I'm around, because you know, I don't
want you to hear what my mom is, Like why
don't you take that up with your mother? And he's like,
I will. And then del Roy Leno just does like
great like reaction acting when he's like yeah, like about
to say something, measures dials back and then goes on.
You're like, wow, okay, del Roy, he really that whole scene,
there's like just a scene where he's just hanging up

(18:33):
lights and getting a little frustrated, and I was captivated
because we're supposed to focus on what's happening in the background,
which is Kelly coming home from a one night stand
with McKay peiffer, who proceeds to stop her for the
rest of the movie, but in a cute way, but
in acute way when he's very suddenly like dressed up

(18:55):
as Santa with her niece and nephew, I'm like, this
is like this is the end of that story line.
And if we can't depin you, but we did in
the normal world. There's a text that's a girl. You're
not gonna believe this motherfucker showed up in Santa outfit.
I didn't even call him. I'm trying to get him
to leave right now. No, just the one time, not

(19:16):
since then. No, he brought gifts and ship too like
once they like as if he knew what they wanted.
This is you run even a cursory bushemy test on
that it all falls apart. Stu Bushemy comes the next
morning into Santa Suit. You're like, it's not going to
end well, You're like, get out of my house. Um, okay.

(19:38):
So we meet Madeer and Joe, we meet Baby. That's
Chris Brown's character. He is the youngest member of the family.
I think he's a senior in high school about to
graduate because he still lives it. They like make it
seem like he's still in high school right even though
he's yes, but he's acting like again, he's acting like
he's tent like he's always like hunched over like he

(20:00):
and also twenty five because like I'm singing at a
nightclub snuck out the age right. They never like, they
never specify really how old anyone is supposed to be,
which works to the movie's advantage because I'm like, I
don't know what I would believe. And then the rest
of the family starts to arrive at Madeir's house. Lisa

(20:23):
that's Regina King. She arrives with her husband, Malcolm that's
laz Alonso. They have two kids together, who could not
be in the movie less if they tried. That's fucked up.
It was weird. And another like moment when I was like,
I'm so fucking confused, like when I was watching it
last week and I'm like, wait, who, who the who's

(20:45):
fucking kids are these? And why are they being neglected
the whole film? Like they don't exist in the reality
of the film. The fact that they're even there is
introduced so late in the movie, and then I was
still like, wait, who whose kids are these? And then
you're like, oh, like, oh, okay, that makes sense that
I don't know. The way that they're introduced was very confusing,

(21:08):
and then they're like in the background of two scenes,
they don't even sit at the table, Like the table
I honestly thought in the first like soul Train dance
line that they did as a family, Like when Quinn
comes home and one of the kids was there, I
honestly thought it was an intruder. I was like, who
the funk is? And like, y'all aren't really you're just
gonna act like okay whatever. I'm like, this family is

(21:30):
on some other ship. You know, those infamous child intruders. Yeah,
I don't know exactly. I'm like, Yo, one of these
little cutesy thieves is in your house on Christmas. You've
seen this a hundred times. You know the script already,
that classic Christmas troupe. Hey, it's me, your other little grandchild.
You're gonna take the presents, you ink. I don't know

(21:51):
why they talked again New York Burglar from the twenties,
but given Adris Elba's character, you know, I believe almost anything, right, Okay.
So then we also meet Kelly. That's Sharon Leal. She
works in New York. I think in advertising. She went
to Harvard. Her main thing is that she's a terrible cook.

(22:12):
A lot of jokes are made at her expense about
her being really bad at cooking. Don't forget she also
has a vibrator, and she has a vibrator. Yes, she's
one of those Harvard non cooking knows how to pleasure
herself types. Huh, a modern feminist think. But we're told
we don't like that. She's gotta she's gotta marry the
first Santa she has sex with. Right, Look, you beggars

(22:35):
can't be choosers, especially when you suck up making cool aid.
The fact the fact that she's literally like a Harvard
grad who happens to be single and doesn't seem to
be bothered by it, And the movie is like, m
she's gonna start dating Santa. You're just like, what, yeah,
for this character, what you're laying out for me? I

(22:58):
do like that they did honor the trope of talking
about Harvard all the time, because like it's one thing
like when a black person goes to Harvard, it's always talked.
It will never not be spoken about. So I really
appreciated how like Harvard was constantly getting beat over the
head once in the same way. Like, and I think
in like more like white culture that it's the trope

(23:18):
of I went to school in Cambridge or what is it, Boston,
went to school in Boston what's the vague thing that
people say, did not say they went to Harvard to
small college in Boston. Okay, well, this feels like a
great time to bring up that I went to a
school in Boston. It's called Boston University, and I did
get a master's degree in screenwriting from that institution. But

(23:40):
I would never bring that up never. What did you
think of some of the writing? Sorry to derail you.
I know we're still doing this synopsis, but there are
some lines of dialogue that I was like, there were
some head scratchers there. I had some fun ones that
The writing to me was pretty decent. I think I
would say some of the soundtrack choices were what we're

(24:02):
really puzzling to me? Yeah, Well, the interesting thing is
that Marcus Miller was the was the person in charge
of music. And Marcus Miller is like, oh fucking well,
well respected jazz musician um and like played with like
Miles Davis and Ship. So when I saw that pop up,
I was like, Ship, Marcus Miller is like the fucking

(24:24):
musical director. Like he's a talented bassist. But it had
that like stale jazz brunchie vibe to the soundtrack. It
was very Yeah. I was kind of I was like,
I don't know how much of this is like two
thousand and seven talking, but it just it did sound
very like generic. I had my favorite line um was

(24:45):
there because I generally like I thought, I mean, it's
super tropy, but whatever, it's a Christmas movie. But my
favorite line that was bad was anytime Malcolm, the like
cheating husband is talking. The way he talks is so
business vague in a way that I thought was really funny,
where he's like, at some point, like Kelly realizes that

(25:07):
he's cheating on her sister, and he's like, you know,
I gotta fly back to San Francisco signed some papers.
It's business. There's a sentence and then he says on
the phone, I'm in escrow. Let him know he's doing deals. Man,
he's in escrow himself right now. Sorry, I'm in escrow

(25:28):
right now. Probably when I get out, Like it sounds
like business to me. I don't know the other thing
he said I was. I think when we were talking
off Mike the other day, j B. I was like,
there's some business investment tropes or just takes that are
just really weird where Malcolm says that buying a Cadillac
Escalade is a good investment. And that was like the

(25:49):
most two thousand seven shift I've ever heard, was like
a good investment. I'm like, that is not appreciating in value.
How is that a good investment in any way? It's
also like one the most famous like gas guzzlers. Yeah. Well,
I think also for me to at that time pulling
up an escalade, there there was no higher vehicle in

(26:10):
black culture, you know, like a Cadillac and then big
body SUV Cadillac. But I just love that he was
so like insistent in that seems like damn, I've got
the good investment. I'm just like, that's don't even have
a character say that out loud. The car is not
an investment unless it's like to get you to and
from work or some kind of classic car. Right. Yeah.

(26:31):
I suppose there's some questionable writing choices. I think, like store,
like the emotional arc of different characters. Yeah, but that
is fun the Yeah, there there were a few things
here that were kind of like, oh, this happens right
before a big recession, and you can kind of see
You're like, oh, I don't know how this ends, and
how does this where you know, where are the wit

(26:54):
Fields in two thousand nine? We never we don't know.
He didn't get a sequel. Yeah yet, I mean maybe
they had they sold their business just to get liquid.
That's true. That's true, right, and let's see that's a
follow up. We don't want we don't need that. Yeah,
it's like, I don't want to know they live in
two thousand seven forever for me, Like what if they're
like yeah? And then baby became Chris Brown. Also at

(27:19):
the end of the movie where there's a really long
dance sequence and then you're like, oh, it's not even
the characters anymore. It's just it's just the actors. It
took me a second because I was like, they just
did someone just accidentally call him Chris? I was like, oh, no,
I guess we're just actors now. Yeah. It's just like
it's like like the end of a play where the
cast comes out and gives like a like a fun bow.
Was like the movie equivalent, like let's do all do
some dancing. And then I feel like I was kind

(27:41):
of turning up the volume because I feel like there
was some like ship talking going on. I'm gonna have
to watch that again. But there was a moment where
I feel like someone made fun of someone else is
dancing and they're like, I don't give a fuck like
someone I felt like there was an exchange like that,
whereas I was like, oh, wow, you're really doing It's like,
come on, I'm sucking trying. Like there was like a
dismissive grunt that I think is audible. A cast at
that large you have to think that like there has

(28:04):
to be like some pairing that doesn't work well when
there's a cast of over ten people, You're like, okay,
two of these people don't like each other, right, but
you just never know who like Lauren London and Delroy
Lindo hate each other there. Well, I feel like Delroy
Lindo still sends everyone Christmas cards. He just seems like

(28:24):
he would. Oh he seems like a you know, as
you're like, they come visit me, man, Please visit me anytime,
Please come visit me. Remember that movie from thirteen years ago? Yeah,
I was just I was just telling you. I was
just calling you have to tell you how much I
like the Five Bloods. Yeah. Remember this Christmas Man? You

(28:47):
said we were going to hang out after that. I
know you're busy. No, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine,
it's fine, And you don't want to hang out with
an old guy like me. You know, I was in Congo.
He played a very weird like everything, like like central
African general in it. Anyway, I digress. Yeah, let's return

(29:07):
to the Actually, let's take a quick break first and
then we will come right back. Um. So next to
come home as Claude. That's Columbus Short. He's in the military.
I think that's really all we learned about him for

(29:30):
a while. Then Mel that's Lauren London, comes home. She's
in college studying pre law. She brings home her boyfriend Devon.
And then last to arrive is Quentin Idris Elba's character.
He's a jazz musician who we've seen get into like
a brawl prior to this birth breakaway glass in the

(29:52):
first scene, like he smashes a bottle over someone's face
and then jumps up window. You're like, oh, this mcavity.
I remember I was watching with her Majesty, and we
paused it after that because we're like, is this a
Christmas movie? He just glassed the guy in a club
and ran for his life, like it had the didn't

(30:14):
I mean, I guess the jazzy Christmas piano would give
you a hint, but like it had the oddest energy
for the opening for Christmas pilem. It was such a
weird that being the first scene really does not set
you up for it establishes the tone that does not
maintain itself throughout the kind of you don't know, what

(30:35):
would you say, doctor Durante about the writing there, or
what would Robert McKee say as such heavy handed ex
please call me Master Durante, And I would say that
the point of attack of a film, which is like
basically the opening, what how we opened the story? How
the world and the characters are first introduced to the

(30:58):
audience generally does a few important things, and one of
those things is to establish tone. And would you establish
a tone that then is deviated from for the rest
of the story. It's a bit jarring. But what if
Mo and Dude come back every once in a while
and say, hey, remember us punch? Punch? Is that nice?

(31:19):
Is that word that provides a little bit more fluidity
and consistency? However, it is I will say, a strange
choice as a way to open the film I'm glad
to know that was verified by someone with a master's degree.
You're welcome. Um okay. So now the whole family is there.
So this is like the first evening they're all there together,

(31:39):
and this is where the drama really starts to ramp up. Um.
Part of it is that Kelly has a strained relationship
with Lisa. She thinks that Lisa is weak willed and
easily influenced and is too accommodating to her shitty husband, Malcolm,
who Kelly openly hates. And that's one of my favorite

(32:00):
aspects of this movie is how open, openly hateful she
is to Malcolm, right to his face. So meanwhile, Lisa
wants to sell Madear's dry cleaning business, and this is
an idea that we realized that Malcolm put her up to.
No one else is really on board for this idea,
but this is kind of like a running thing throughout

(32:21):
the movie. Um Quentin hasn't seen his family in four years,
and probably the main reason that he came home this
time was that he is on the run from these
bookies who he owes twenty five dollars too, and so
he's like in hiding at his mom's house and the
reason he's estranged from his family is one of my

(32:42):
favorite bizarre specifics about this movie, which is that because
Quentin Senr ditched the family to go be a musician,
Madear feels that there is a bit of of a
music musician related curse on her life that if any
of the men in her life even go go with him,
I think canonically, within like six ft of a piano,

(33:06):
um that they will abandon her. And um. So she's
so it's it's almost she's like a little bit of
like foot loose when it comes to women playing music.
It's like, this is the movie Coco. I was like,
did Cocoa see this Christmas and lift that very Cocoa
famously wrote the movie Cocos. But I was watching this,

(33:31):
I was like, wait a minute, Miguel from Coco, this
is like his whole problem. His his like a matriarch
and his family was abandoned by a musician. And she
thinks that there's like this now, this music curse on
the family. So she forbids anyone in the family from
like playing music or singing or doing anything. And I
was like, wait a minute, there's there's a parallel here anyway,

(33:56):
it truly is. And then so Quentin has a strained
relationship and part of it is is what we just described,
this um kind of music related curse that Madear perceives
to be on the family because like Quentin has kind
of followed in his father's footsteps as a musician. Um. Okay,

(34:16):
So then everyone goes to a club that night. I
think we're two nights before Christmas at this point. Um,
and a lot of stuff goes down at this club. Um,
it starts, all goes down. It starts with Claude wanting
to go there to meet someone in secret, and we
realize that this person is a girlfriend or it turns

(34:38):
out that she's his wife and he's kind of keeping
her a secret with an eye and the implication is
that he's keeping her a secret from his family because
she is white. But all his siblings tag along to
this club outing, so he still has to like hush,

(34:59):
like he's like, oh home, Sandy, go back to the
hotel and by home. Yeah, it takes a I feel
like was I not watching carefully enough or does it
take a really long time to figure out what their
relationship actually is, because at first it's like it took
me a while to figure out that she was his wife,
and then and then also he's like making her live

(35:21):
in a hotel. Like it just took me a long
time to figure out what exactly the situation was there,
and that whole storyline is so fucking bizarre. I wasn't
sure what I was like. At first, I was like, oh,
is he like, is he has like a lover? That
clearly I was like, there's a lover. And then I
forgot that it was a white woman, and I was like, oh, ship, okay,

(35:42):
does this have some like LGBTQ flavor? And then I
was like, all right, this is a black Christmas film,
so we're gonna go into she is white, a white woman.
He's meeting up at the club, and I honestly thought
it was it felt like groupie ish or something like
not a relationship because it's like, go to the hotel,
I will meet you. Yeah, it seems like a casual.

(36:03):
I was not getting white. I was like, oh, oh,
he's dating a white girl. But then it was like, no,
she's his wife and she's pregnant and she lives in
a hotel. You're like why here? What? Yeah, that whole
storyline was baffling to me. Also, shout out to the
l Ray Theater where that club is, because it's like

(36:23):
every fucking movie, like like in l a like, it's
always like it fucked up people's idea of what a
nightclub was, which is basically just being like we can
basically only shoot at the l Ray Theater. Like in
the Mask where he does like his like cocoa bongo thing.
I think it's the l Ray too. It's just a
iconic theater, which I in my mind was weird. That's

(36:43):
set up with like stages, like a stage and tables
is what I thought a nightclub was from like movies
in the nineties that were shooting at the l Ray
and then you went to one, You're like, oh no,
it's a it's a really just shitty big room with
couches in the corner. It stinks. Yeah, you can't you
can't smell a building on in a movie. Unfortunately, No,

(37:04):
that could change. But when I'm done in this industry,
that's all going to be a little different. There was
like a smell a vision thing in in theaters for
a while. It was wildly unsuccessful, but I learned about
it in film history class. Really. I remember in the
nineties Fox TV on Sundays they would have like these
events where you'd go to a seven eleven to pick

(37:25):
up like whatever thing you needed to enjoy it. Like
they would do like three like in Living Color in
three D and you would get like those blue and
red three D glasses and you would like they would
broadcast like the three D version on the TV. If
you didn't have them, you were shipped out. But then
they also did a Smell a Vision one where like
you bought a there's a scratch and sniff card and

(37:46):
like in an episode and be like, all right, now
smell that because Al Bundy did sort of like one
character on TV and it was Jankie Analog Smell a Vision,
Thank you seven eleven, and do that for Nickelodeon cartoons
at one point to like you had to like buy
an issue in nick Glodian magazine and then you could
like smell a SpongeBob episode and be like, wow, Patrick,
time to time to smell it and exciting damn it,

(38:10):
I already sniffed up all the smell off of this car.
Doesn't sound like anything anymore. Okay, so we're at the
club the siblings have tagged along. There's also an open
mic night that was I was like, oh my god,
just the idea of like an open mic being like
sprawled like some kind of show of with like full

(38:30):
of amateurs a Christmas imagine doing a Christmas Eve open mic.
I just I mean I could because I longed to
be in a room full of like other people, like
in strangers again. But yeah, that I think people have
experienced this, like going out where it's a surprise open
mic and you didn't know you were at a thing
that was about to turn into an open mic, and

(38:51):
you're like, fuck no, I seriously don't want to be
here for this. Well, we've been on the other side
of that hundreds of times as comics who will be
on a bar show that no one else at the
bar knows a comedy show is about to happen, and
then suddenly someone walks up to a microphone. They're like
com when he starts in five minutes, and then everyone

(39:12):
at the bar is like, I don't care. I'm going
to keep talking at regular volume and I right with
the TVs are still on. It's a mess. Um. Yeah. Anyway,
So there's this open mic night and like the first
to perform is their brother baby, who sings a full song. Uh,

(39:33):
and they're like, oh my god, we didn't know he
was a singer and wow, he's so good, but he's
been keeping it a secret because of this music family
curse thing. Also at the club, this is when gerald
A K. McKay peiffer is making Google eyes at Kelly
and then she goes home with him. She doesn't he said.

(39:59):
He's saying to who can have fun? Could fuck? Oh Santa?
Fucks honey, blew my mind. And then there's like that
scene where Lauren London is like, did you fox Santa?
And then Kelly's like, yes, sure. And then also at
this club, a few guys were seen hitting on Clode's

(40:22):
lady friend. Again, we don't really know their relationship at
this point. Um, so he pulls a gun on them,
He pulls his surface pistol on them, and then later
on he gets arrested, and that's when everyone finds out
that he's a wall right, And that's also when they
find out that Sandy is his wife. For someone who
has no plot for the first hour, the stakes for

(40:44):
Claude go through the roof like really quickly, you shouldn't
have gone to that club, you know, he shouldn't have.
If he hadn't, we would know nothing about his character.
But also I think it's a lesson, right, you know,
if had he just alleviated the stress of deceiving his
family and keeping his relationship hidden, he may not have
pulled it the strap out at the club on the guy,

(41:06):
you know, because his family wouldn't know, like, oh, here
was s meet up saying, oh what's up saying, but
instead he's like, you get the fuk away from me.
We tried, and he's already just like talking to and
now my brothers is doing this thing. He's singing. My
mom thinks it's a curse. I think he had a
lot going on. And then when those two dudes are like,
hey man, no hard fearing bro, you know because the
white girls they got booty, but they got the strong

(41:26):
knees or whatever the funk that line was that set
him off, Like okay, oh toxicity all around that. Like
then it was just like now, fucking dick, this gun
motherfucker's like, whoa this has big dude? Who is keeping
secrets energy? Who should have just just been communicative and
forth threat I feel like a lot of stress would
have been tamped down. And then Eatsala was like, you've

(41:49):
always had this temper and it's like, what has he
We haven't seen that, Like that should have been set up.
He was so nice for the like he did not
drink real pleasant and then said he's like pulling a
gun on people, and we're like, where is this coming from? Well,
that's what it shows you. That's what happens when you're
with a white woman. I think that's what that was
being told to everybody else. And see they'll be like, see,

(42:09):
see that's like that's like our cousin Randy. He's like
that it's nothing, but it's Sandy and Sandy. It's so
weird because he because later when Sandy shows up at
the house, like there's a moment of discomfort, but then
she's pretty much immediately accepted for the rest of the
movie and worried about basically nothing. Yeah, it was a

(42:30):
weird thing where it's like my family could be, you know,
really closed off to this ship and like those were
the steaks and like you kind of but it was
in that time, like in the two thousand seven mindset,
especially for me, is like a you know, a personal
color who dates like white women and all kinds just
anybody really don't discriminate romantically. But like that idea was like,

(42:52):
oh ship, she's white, Like you're like back then, you're like,
oh oh, you know, like it felt their worst because
I think now we're in a bit of a we're
more openly talking about things like that, where this was
very much being like it's taboo and like that was
really like the thing driving it, whereas now we're like,
I mean, biracial relationships have been going on since well

(43:14):
before this film, but it was still kind of like
one of these things. I felt a little like old
school cultural trope that doesn't it's not work in the
same way. But even then in the end, the family
was doing the thing that was pretty much what most
people are. I'm like, oh cool, Okay, you're in our
family and you're gonna you're also the mother of one
of my descendants. Now great. But then there's a weird

(43:35):
component where you part of it where you learn that
her family doesn't know about her Gregnancy because she's like,
oh yeah, they're not fans of Claude because he's black.
So she comes from this like wildly racist family. So
it's like again, so they attached these like really significant

(43:57):
steaks that it's like you can't just say that and
then not explore it at all, Like, oh you can't
because you can't. I'll tell you why because it's the
black holiday film and all you needed is that moment
where you go, yeah, I told you white people ain't ship.
That's really what it did. And she's like, you see
because they embraced her me while her ain't ship family
was like we're racist as funk. You know. I think
that was like that gives because every holiday film, no

(44:19):
matter what, like whether it's the length, like the lens
of like an orphan or someone like, you need that
moment of like yeah, we're a good guy, like you
see that felt good right there. So I felt that
was that moment. And also for me, I remember I
just when it happened, I sort of reverted to this
like thing of like, yeah, see exactly, that's how just
how should be sometimes I think for me too, because
I've dated white women where like when I was younger,

(44:41):
it was like, oh, like you know, I don't really
want to like post anything on like foot Facebook or
some ship like that and I was like well, and
I was like, okay, yeah, I just I get it.
I'm you're just getting off to me. You're just getting
off to my physical presence. M yeah fuck I anyway,
but let's not digress because they embraced Sandy and that's

(45:03):
what this is all about. They do. Christmas is all
about opening your arms and your hearts and your homes
to everyone. Mo and Dude, Oh, I'm sorry, let me
I'll let you keep well. Speaking of them, this is
also around the time that those two bookies Mo and
Dude show up. Yeah, beat the ship out of Quinton

(45:23):
for a while, and then they stick around and even
almost stay the night. There's a very weird dynamic there.
But basically they will punch Quentin when no one's looking,
but the rest of the time their masquerading is Quentin's
friends and everyone buys it. It always feels like a
home Aloney, Like it's like the tone is like they're

(45:44):
just kind of the Robbers, where they're like, yeah, we're friendly,
but we're gonna keeck yes. If you don't get the
good pal here right, Quinn gut punches. There's just such
a weird they weren't even flying like the tropes of goons,
like who are just like stupid guys who were just
going to be like the threat of violence that exists

(46:06):
in the background, Like they suddenly became like these goofball
dudes who are also being like, let's also funk with
him by like pretending we're friends and also like offer
them a ride to the police station to get their
brother out of jail. Like I was like, wait, are
you in now? It was really confusing what they're like.

(46:28):
We know what their endgame is, but the way they
were trying to get there really made no sense. I
was like, are they just lonely? Do they just want
to like spend time with somebody? Can we just sort
of break out the financial aspects of them seeking restitution?
Because where where was Quentin coming from? New York? San Francisco, Chicago?

(46:48):
And they showed the Golden Gate Bridge that's to show
where Lisa's from. Lisa and her husband and her family
live in San Francisco. I think I think maybe Chicago
is where, So it was definitely clear him not it wasn't.
It wasn't a quick jaunt away, so I'm thinking, Okay,
so what are their travel expenses? Okay, well, how are
we eating into this twenty dollars or trying to get

(47:09):
back you know, gas lodging food. I'm thinking you're there's
like there's probably what i'll call it three grand. Now
you're looking at twenty two? Um, and who's that? Ohd too?
Is that specifically you guys? Are you splitting that twenty two?
I started getting into goon math when I was watching it.
They got to keep those south clean, yeah, exactly, And like,
are you keeping receipts or expenses for your goon boss?

(47:31):
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, because they do have a
goon boss. I forget that his name, but they mentioned
the goon boss that they're like collecting the money on
behalf of Big Goon in the Sky. Oh gosh, okay Um.
Then I am a little lost on the timeline here.
I think it's maybe later that night or maybe the

(47:51):
next day, not sure, but basically there's now a big
there's a big fight in the rain between Kelly and Lisa.
They're pushing each other. Kelly's like, you're her husband's a
piece of ship and you're you're a pushover and he's
cheating on you. And at Lesa's like, wait a minute,
maybe she's right, and then she goes and destroys his
aforementioned Cadillac escalade drives it into the l A River. Yes,

(48:16):
big moment for the l A River right, which is
for anyone who is not familiar with the l A
River is mostly concrete with a tiny little stream of water,
which is even weirder because it's a concrete stream and
then a cutout concrete stream inside of it. Like when
you look at it's like, this looks like a sidewalking
Like where is the stream? It's like, Oh, it's that
other weird thing. That's the depression in this concrete block

(48:39):
we're standing on. That's the river, that little Pepe stream,
that river, that's our river. Um. So, then Baby finally
tells Madeir about wanting to be a singer. She does
not take it well. Meanwhile, Quentin leaves on Chris us

(49:00):
even night. The Bookies catch up with him at the
train station and beat the crap out of him, but
Joe swoops in to save the day. Then we cut
to Christmas morning. Lisa confronts Malcolm about being a piece
of shit and beats him with a belt like pours
baby oil over the floor to like humiliate him all

(49:20):
this stuff. That scene really like kept going on. Dude,
that s he was. I was like, this scene, but
you know you need that. That's the that's the like, yeah,
that's like the thing that see that hap people cheering
into thousands. I had a note of that too. I'm like,
I think that this scene is kind of longer for

(49:42):
for like the theatrical experience and like watching it in
a group, I think I'm guessing based on how we're
all talking about this, we all must have if we
were watching with someone I know. I turned to her managiny, like,
this is getting a little bit a lot now. This
is with the whipping of the black man in the bathroom, Okay, yeah,
but get yours though. I get it though, is you know,

(50:03):
in the logic of these films, cheater equals bad, So yeah,
I get your ass beat this is I mean, this
is I guess. Yeah. Like Regina King, she's so amazing
and she's so talented, and I feel like she's asked
to play a spurned wife too frequently. It's but she
does it well, right yeah. Um. And then immediately after

(50:25):
that is a scene of the whole family in church
where baby sings and then Madear is like, oh, wow,
he's really good. Maybe I should be okay with him
pursuing music, which she says all of this with her
facial expression, um like it truly is like, like you said,
it was so capulus, Like I get it because it

(50:47):
was so clear when you went and she's crying. She's like, Oh,
everything's gonna be okay. And then the family sits down
for Christmas dinner together. They have a nice toast about
no matter what, we are family. And that is the
end of the film. Let's take a quick break and
then we will come right back. Where do where does

(51:14):
whose storyline should? I mean, we've covered we've sort of
covered in some of it throughout the recay, But where
should we start maybe just kind of starting in a
in a sort of the general scope of things worth
discussing a little bit. And we've talked about this on
the many many Christmas episodes we have covered on the

(51:34):
show in the past, that this is a particularly white genre.
Usually the cast will be entirely white, or that any
characters of color will have only very tertiary role kind
of things. So for this to be one of the
few mainstream films that features a black family worth noting,

(51:56):
doesn't happen much, doesn't happen often, but it's still puffing
that same old tropium of these Christmas films of like
gender normative bullshit and like all this like Judeo Christian
whatever the funk it is stuff, which is funny because
it's always like to say, it's like it's still the
same kind of flavor, you know what I mean, But yeah,

(52:17):
it's But it's funny because there are moments where, like
I've definitely looked at it differently as a black person
that other people just see like certain moments differently. But
I think those are the moments that you're like, oh,
thank you a movie that was kind of made for
me as an audience member, pointing to things that I
are significant to me or maybe seem insignificant to other people.
But yeah, right, but like you said, they're like, well,

(52:39):
it's a Christmas movie, so we still have to make
it palatable to audiences and really maintain a lot of
tropes and holiday movie troops specifically, and like, yeah, so
it's kind of it's in this strange place that also
feels very two thousand seven. Yeah, yeah, extremely it's and

(53:01):
then then as as far as that, I mean, there's
so many characters too to talk about, but I think, Myles,
you're totally right where it's like, it's amazing that there's
like a widely released black Christmas movie, but then within it,
it's all those Christmas tropes that are in. Like it's
everyone is the most hetero person who has ever lived,

(53:22):
and they need to be married yesterday, like that Christmas like,
which I feel like is such a common like I
mean that's every Christmas movie. It's like, why aren't you married?
Why don't you marry? Hey? Look at that guy? Why
don't you marry him? And then she goes okay, and
that's where's the Christmas movie where like everyone just gets

(53:44):
fucked up drunk? Because that's more real to me than
anything that's my Christmas. Yeah, Like I just remember going
to other people's Christmas and I'm like, Yo, this is
fucking dope. You guys just get fucking turned up and
like that's what you do for Christmas? And he's like yeah,
I don't know, Like we don't really go to church
or anything. We get together, it's cold and drink. I'm like,
where is that movie? Like that even feels more real

(54:05):
than sort of like it's it's like almost portraying the
Christmas people want to avoid, which is like I don't
want to go to my fucking house because of my
aunt is gonna be like what are you gonna get married?
Or like what are you doing for work? And that that,
And I guess that's real to a certain extent, but
it's weird. I was saying this in another show, like
it's it's like these Christmas movies like their lack of flavor,
Like is the flavor? You know that it's not. It's

(54:27):
not going to be too confrontational or subversive or make
you question anything at all, aside from whether or not
an escalated is a good investment. But like that's what it's.
I think that's the draw is like it's a Manila
envelope that won't offend you but also has a bow
on it so it feels festive, but it still a
Manila envelope. And it's a it's an autour film. It's

(54:51):
Preston a Whitmore, Whitmore's Whitfield. It makes you think President
a Whitmore the second directed, produce and wrote this movie.
Um so it's safe to say and like the research
I did of like the interviews done at the time,
it seems like this is like based on his family
at least to some extent um, probably not all the

(55:14):
same Christmas, but who knows. The thing that mainly, the
thing that mainly stood out to me in terms of
like the many threads that we have going on here,
is that I just wish that, like it's for for
the women in this movie, most of their steaks are
attached to a like romantic relationship with a guy, and
then with with the with the men that the stakes

(55:36):
are like very varied. There's like music curs guy, there's
a wall guy. There's like there's a wall Nation guy.
There's like jazz on the run guy, like there's there's
The stakes are so all over the like in a
way that's really fun and engaging. But when it comes

(55:58):
to Lisa and Lillie and Mel and even to an
extent Madei, it's like they're all of their steaks are
like something about my marriage or like I need a
marriage or Mel I mean weird. I feel like Mel
had kind of an interesting threat introduced at the beginning
of the movie that kind of goes nowhere. She kind
of gets lost in the shuffle, and so I want

(56:20):
to I wish that they were like the same kind
of like silly Christmas movie steaks for for the women
in the movie that that the suns have right, but
even those stakes too and like the traditional Christmas think
it's tied to like their role as homemaker or something.
It's like I have to get the gift for the kid,
or like this Christmas dinner has to be good, which

(56:42):
is like what I feel like the steaks are in
like our traditional just vapid ship Christmas films, but yeah,
it is all the steaks are like he's cheating on me,
or like Santa fuck I hope Santa will fuck me,
or it's just like a very odd thing. Oh one
weird one weird moment that really stuck out to me.
It was this moment between Joe and Baby when the

(57:04):
first day, Like I think it's one of the first
scenes where Chris Brown gets a camera, so I got
a night it's like the Rose Roy Sick cameras. I'm like, well,
are we talking full format? I mean, is it a
hustle blot or a momma? I mean photographers might actually anyway,
that's a whole other Archtuk discussion. Um, but with him
when like Joe Delroy Lindo comes out goes you got

(57:25):
a camera? Huh Yeah. I remember when I was your age,
I wanted to watch but we couldn't afford it. And
I was just like, what, at least the camera offers
babies some kind of mobility like that, it can create work,
but you just wanted some superficial like class signifier of
a watch, like it just seemed like a It was

(57:46):
like it just they just said it and went forward,
and I was like, that didn't I actually positive, like
that didn't make sense as finding common ground, like I
don't understand aside from just being like I desired things
and I got it. I had that kind of stuff
happened a lot where it's like to like, You're like
I think, I think, I like, I might understand what

(58:08):
that conversation was supposed to be, but it's just like
sometimes characters just kind of miss each other in this
very bizarre way where I'm like, I guess we're still
having the same conversation. There. Another thread that I thought
was interesting in terms of mel and then it that
kind of flames out right away is the relationship with
Mel and Devon and how there's that conversation at the

(58:30):
dinner table towards the beginning of the movie where Devon
goes to Moore House and Malcolm kind of comes at
him and like interrogates him for going to a historically
black college and like he went to Yale and Kelly
went to Harvard, and I was like, oh, this is
like an interesting conversation. But then it never that just

(58:50):
goes away, like that whole that kind of disappearing. And
then part of the conversation is people being like, oh, yeah,
Mel has been in school for oh along, because she
just keeps switching her major based on whatever guy. And
it's just like, well, Kelly, Kelly has this huge problem
with Lisa because she thinks she's like weak willed and
easily influenced. But what like, look at what Mel is doing.

(59:15):
Why weren't you taking take to like miles of comments
on the financials You're like, okay, they're they're like like
when Lisa's like, we need to sell off our like
we have to liquidate our part of the business because
she's concerned that madear like that she's not gonna have
enough money. But it's like, well, then a great way

(59:36):
it would be for mel to stop going to an
expensive college for seven years in a row. That's a
great way to cut back on expenses for the family.
Is not seven years of a private college, Like it's
just the money stuff is very confusing, right, yeah, it's
all I think even with um the Harvard Yale versus
HBCU thing is like they were that was a quick

(59:58):
way to be like, those are the the black people
in your family, like the ones who got went to
Ivy League schools and forgot who they were or like
you know, that was a very quick brushstroke culturally to
be like that's who they are, and they came for
the person who went to more House, who then has
like the much more articulated response as to why they
go to more House, meaning you know, you sure you

(01:00:20):
went to the place that people know about, but for
my values as a black man and like I want
to go to this school, but like it very much
set the table like Okay, he's here and your Ivy
lead people are down here because he just put the
smack on you by explaining why he preferred that over
your school, and it makes us like Malcolm, like it
makes it makes Malcolm's character clearer of like, oh, he's

(01:00:42):
like an elitist asshole. But and but it made like
that scene really I was like, Oh, Devin's cool. I'm
excited to see where his story goes. But then you're
just like, where does it go anywhere? It was funny though, too,
for him to basically like recite the schools like Mission
Stayment and like really explain his beliefs in this way

(01:01:04):
that everyone's like, wow, he's got a great head on
his shoulders, because the scene right before that is him
barely able to say his own name. Yeah, right there
with him would say I feel like we're just with you,
come on, man, and then he's ready for like this
intellectual battle at the dinner table scene, like and then
the way that scene resolves is like, well, one thing's

(01:01:27):
for sure, mel sucks and that's like the end of
the scene. Here. It's like all right, just so many
so many threads that you're like, oh, I guess that
didn't come back, didn't Well? Yeah, Really, despite all of
like the women's steaks and storylines largely being attached to

(01:01:48):
romantic interests as trophy and heteronormative as it is, I
will say that I liked the women in the movie
way more than I liked really any of the men,
and I do appreciate it, at least with there being
a focus on these these relationships they have with the
men in their lives that we there's like a sex

(01:02:10):
positivity component to this family that I appreciated that Uh,
Lisa doesn't have as much because she does call her
sister a hoe, but they're like openly talking about sex
and batteries to a vibrator. She's like, you really should
switch to the woman either, honey. I like how my

(01:02:30):
dear is like I want my kids to come, but
I don't want them to sing. Like all right, I
guess because I appreciate that, especially because a lot of
like Christmas movies are so like and it makes sense
because there are a lot of them are like family, children,
family move like appropriate for the whole family. So they're like,
this is just so sex doesn't exist in these worlds,

(01:02:53):
so that they that they talk about sex and like
talk openly about it and generally have a sex positive
attitude among the family. I was like, Okay, I like this, yeah,
and it's like that not as I mean, even like
in that opening montage where like my dear and Joe
or I mean, it's not like they're not fucking, but
you're like, oh, this this movie is like more open

(01:03:16):
and like less I don't know, yeah exactly, Like you're
saying just less holier than now about everything, and it's like, yeah, families,
do you have sex? Not with each other? I don't know.
If Fred has that wild ass line in the beginning
was a girl. If he wasn't my cousin, I was like, Fred,

(01:03:39):
why and then I was then in the middle of
the movie, I'm like, where did that guy go? Because
he was like he came in so hot at the
top of the movie and it disappeared. Yeah, if you
you can't start any sentences if you weren't my cousin,
unless it's like if you weren't my cousin, you would
be someone not related to me. That's like the only

(01:03:59):
way that send like you started anything off like what okay? Good?
You ended it with a very literal description rather than
like checking her ass out and being like so weird cousin.
I'm like, y'o, don't do all that ship. But again,
that's uh. Those are like those moments where the script
writer is not really checking about like what that means
to be like, and this character is like openly just

(01:04:20):
making his cousin uncomfortable because he's objectifying her at the
Christmas thing right well speaking, so we touched on this
a little bit too, but like the way that McKay
peiffer his role in the story, where like he's like
aggressively staring at Kelly at the club and then they
go home together. But then the next morning he calls her,

(01:04:41):
then she ignores his call, and then he shows up
as Santa Claus uh, and she's like, what are you
doing here? This is weird? And then I guess they
make plans later that night that she has to bail on.
I don't but I don't remember that even being discussed.
She she ends up, it's because all the clod stuff happens.
It's like the stuff happens, and then she and Lesa

(01:05:03):
get into a fight, and I think she just ends
up kind of like understandably dropping the ball, right. But
then he shows up again after she doesn't show up
to whatever plans they had, and then he's just like hey,
and then he spends the night because he's like I
saw you when you were in ninth grade and I

(01:05:23):
liked it. Oh yeah, that was so you're like, oh,
ship full from Oh he was also in high school,
but I think he was like a bit older, right,
But it was like, I've never forgotten this thing since
I was fifteen, and you're like, oh, damn full for
real and you came up to my house just as
Santa Ship. Okay, that was so so Tropes on Tropes.

(01:05:46):
On Tropes, I'm like the guy from your past who
won't stop showing up. That's actually a good thing and
that means love and nothing's scary about that. But Kelly
in general, like the way her characters. I guess, of
all the ways the characters are written, I found Kelly
to be the most confusing and just kind of like
the way that story treats her is strange because I'm

(01:06:09):
not even totally sure what she does. She mentions that
she went to Harvard and something something perfume, but then
I'm not even totally sure what she does. More of it,
there's more time dedicated to the fact that she's a
bad cook than informing us what she does for a living. Well,
that's what she does. I think that's what they're s
is the occupation is irrelevant. What you need to know

(01:06:31):
is she's the one that can't cook, like very like
that's the framing of it for us, and then the
relationship between her. I I it was a kind of
like a something I can see a number of ways.
But I liked that Kelly and Lisa, you see, they
have like an arc. Like it's you know, it's not
even a guarantee that two women or two sisters will

(01:06:52):
ever even get an arc in an ensemble movie like this,
So I like that there was time that was like
allotted for that. But then the conversations are so kind
of like basic where it's like you went to school
and so you're a careerist and you stayed at home,
so you're not as good as me, and yeah, yeah,

(01:07:13):
when it's like what Lisa is saying to an extent
like made sense, where she's like I had to help
with the family business because everyone else kind of went
their own ways. But like, why is she only mad
at Kelly about this when like Quentin went off his
own way, like everyone left. Why why is like Kelly
bearing the brunt of this grudge? I don't know, I

(01:07:34):
just their whole their whole arc was kind of so
touch and go for me where I'm glad it was there,
but I just thought it was weird, right, because like
Kelly is kind of presented as like the feminist of
the family. She's the one she's focused on her career,
she has a vibrator. She's calling out. She's calling out
Lisa first like being us believable, but then she's also

(01:07:59):
like the so you you are to accommodate your Also,
it feels like she's there's almost like a I don't
know if it's like victim blaming exactly, but like Lisa
is in a bad relationship, like her husband is awful,
she's cheating on her, she knows about it. What's that
doesn't she say a line that kind of sums up
her entire view on why she's okay with like they're

(01:08:21):
being a mistress, because like there's a moment she's confronted
and there's something to the effective like well, you know,
like she's like, I don't want to start over. I
won't be appealing in the dating pools and I'm not
trying to start over, so I'm just gonna stay in
this like miserable life. And then and then Kelly's like,
that's a horrible excuse, like stand up for yourself that

(01:08:45):
I mean, that does happen though, I was like, well, yeah,
well that's the thing, Like that's what's interesting about the
movie because it does touch on things that you're You're
angry sometimes with the characters and you're like, but that's
kind of that's real ship though, like keeping secrets, being
ashamed of a relationship, being in a shitty relationship because
you don't have the self confidence to like break out
and do you know, advocate for yourself. There's real ship,

(01:09:07):
although it's done poorly sometimes and like my oh what
about my kids? What about my Like I'm going to
look the other way because I want my kids to
blah blah blah, Like it does happen. But because Kelly's
constantly calling Lisa out and like being hostile to her
for like, again, Lisa is in this bad relationship and

(01:09:29):
it feels like Kelly hates her because Malcolm sucks. And
it's like, I don't know that, I don't maybe I'm
misinterpreting that, but well, I think in a way, like
what you're describing sounds like when you're mad at your
friend because you know they can do better and you've
seen them do better, yet they're not. And like that's
sort of where it's at, where it's like, yeah, I
mean obviously fuck Malcolm, but also like girl, like you

(01:09:50):
can do way better than this. But but it comes
off in a weird way. I don't know if there's
a way to elegantly like the whole movie would have
to be about that kind of relationship to pull the
nuances out of like being upset with your friend for
not like being in a bad relationship or your family
right and because there's eighteen other storylines happening, like not
enough time as dedicated. They even use the wonderful tropium

(01:10:12):
of the day sex black enough uh in the Mo
and Dude bathroom scene, we're sucking dough or lintles, like
was it twenty five grand I got it right here
and I leave him alone? We got Christmas dinner. I
was like, damn, that was solved very quickly. A pastor,
like the pastors the deacons have twenty five thousand dollars

(01:10:32):
at all, absolutely, even to a black church. The collection
plate comes around, I was like, where did that money
come from? Me? You got he has twenty five thousand.
The pastor always has twenty five thousands. That's a whole
other movie. Yeah, that's and that's a whole other movie.
That's why I'm like, oh, like it's funny, like because
I think of those tropes, even going to black church,
like when my grandparents were dragged me and I was like,

(01:10:52):
why do you give him all the money? I remember
as a kid, I'm like, how come the pastor has
the nicest car? And they're like, well, that's because know
they lead the congregation or whatever. I'm like, this sounds like,
oh sick ass job. Just scream for a couple of
minutes on Sundays and you get a Mercedes. This movie
should have been a like TV series and not a
movie based on like everything that gets set up about

(01:11:13):
all these family members. So we want to go into
the Whitfield universe, Yeah, if where is it? Um? But
to go back to the Kelly at least a relationship
I do appreciate, and this, you know, again, the nuances
aren't explored as much as they should be. This feels
kind of surface level, but I do appreciate at least
that Lisa comes around and realizes like, oh shoot, I

(01:11:34):
should see my worth. I should see my value, I
should leave my cheating husband, whatever that means for for
me in my in my life. And they end on
like a beat of kind of reconciliation and appreciation for
each other because at least the lesson is like, I
don't know, girl, like men are going to cheat. The

(01:11:55):
lesson is like, yo, if they're doing something, you can
you can fucking pull up for yourself and do like
actually take action for yourself. Right. I like where it
lands and then it's like it does. Yeah, it just
seemed like there was just like a lot of interesting
threads in this movie that they just didn't have the time.
I would imagine that like a lot of stuff because
it's two hours long and there's still so much more

(01:12:17):
that you could explore just based on like what is
kind of foreshadowed at the beginning, where Yeah, it just
seemed like the movie maybe didn't have enough time to
get to every like every interesting thing that was presented.
But I did like where their relationship landed. Um and
sisters can like I don't know, I'm glad, I'm glad

(01:12:37):
that Lisa got out of there, and you know, is
it really going to affect her children? Where are her children?
The movie does not give a ship. There mostly mirages.
Yeah the figments. Um, we're running out of time? Is
there any is there any other like kind of big

(01:12:58):
things we want to touch on. Uh the I guess
to like put a little bow on on the Quentin stuff.
He is acting like Macavity. Um he is that's cats. Yeah,
it's just elba is the villain and cats. He's Macavity.
The is it like the mystery cat? I forget what

(01:13:19):
it is, but he's he plays a cat in a fedora?
Um who does? And so when he jumped through breakaway glass,
I was like this is Macavity energy. But but speaking
to how him and madear where they land where Quentin
like he and his mom having a strange relationship because

(01:13:43):
music bad. But then he like comes at her in
a way that it's very clear, like Madeira is in
no uncertain terms being like he was a bad father,
he's a bad husband, Like I've been with Joe for
seven years? Like what if if? Because they say that
they started dating when mel went to college, which was
seven years ago? Like can you just accept this? And

(01:14:06):
he's like no, Dad might come back, which seems like
a thing he's holding out for is like the potential
return of senior. But I don't know. I mean, I guess,
But that's another thing you know that's real though too,
like of your like son father son, you know, relationship
like this of just idealizing your parents and then not

(01:14:28):
being able to see like like looked at them objectively
as a human being, where they're like, that's not how
a person should behave if they're a father. That actually
fucked me up, and I'm I'm traumatized by it, but
you're still so caught up in it that your trauma
is only telling you like, he'll come back, He'll come back,
and then everything will be okay because then if he
comes back, I don't have to process any of this
ship that I've been going through the last twenty odd

(01:14:49):
years because he will come back. But again, that's another
thing that's very nuanced and like I'm looking at him like, well,
there's a way to look at that being deep at fuck.
And there's another version where it just sounds like I
dress elbow being like you're not my dad, and then
it just ends there. They just don't have the time
to like tackle that story, like it just sounds weird
to Caitlin's point, like, yeah, if it were like an anthology,

(01:15:11):
like you could tackle like each of these almost could
be like a very poignant film around Christmas that you're
really like, you know, working around from most of the storylines.
But yeah, it ends up kind of getting a little vogue.
Well then also with Idri Salma's character and arguably all
the men in the movie. And we've talked about this

(01:15:33):
too on Christmas episodes we've done of um, a lot
of stories revolved like a Christmas movie with a male protagonist.
Often redemption is a huge theme there. There's often these
like huge redemption arcs, which I generally find to be
pretty tired and annoying. And it's also like, well, men,

(01:15:55):
if you tried harder the first time, maybe you wouldn't
have to be constantly redeeming yourself all the time. Um,
but you know, men will always be given second chances anyway.
Male redemption stories are a very popular Christmas narrative between
Scrooge and the Grinch and Tim Allen in the Santa
Claus and Michael Keaton and Jack Frost and so on,

(01:16:19):
And it feels like that applies to this movie as well,
where like Joe and Quentin sort of redeem each other
in each other's eyes. There's like this redemption sort of
with Claude being like, oops, I got arrested and oh
I have a secret wife. But now everything's fine. They
also don't have time to resolve this plod stuff. But right,

(01:16:45):
but like Joe calls in a favor with some military
guy he knows, so like that just gets like steamlessly resolved.
Joe did that again? Yeah, Joe says like, oh I
know some dude, Yo, he really is des x Blackina
and this whole film. Yeah everything. You let me call
Colin Powell real quick, already have it an envelope in

(01:17:07):
this way home my left pocket. That's thirty granted the
other one here right, because he's also the one who
arranges for Baby to sing at church so that Baby
can kind of redeem himself in Madear's eyes. So all
these sixes everything for every son right, and all of
the men have these have these redemption narratives, whereas all
the women are just like man or no man? Which

(01:17:28):
man who boy like sex kissing? Yeah that was my
last thing? Is I wish that because most of Madear's
most of Madear's stories as well, are dedicated to her
relationship with Joe, her relationship with Baby, her relationship with Clenton,
and really the only times you see her interact with
her daughter is her or any of her daughters. She's like,

(01:17:51):
how is your marriage or where is your marriage? And
those are really the only things that we So I
wish that you had there was a little more time
with Madear and and her dollars too, but you know,
we just needed an anthology. We needed more time. You
think he went a well because he was like a
conscientious objector to the Iraq war, Like, Yo, that would

(01:18:12):
have been lit. I'm like, yo, hold on, let this
man speak real quick. He's not wrong though, but like
but but he never Yeah, I don't know, Like I
don't know if we could what's the what's the reason behind? Yeah,
that would be amazing. If this was like late Bush administration,
like political. He's like, why am I going to go
to another part of the world just to fight on

(01:18:32):
behalf of corporations that are invested in my downfall in
this country and collectively our entire family and our people.
No funk that I'm not spilling my blood for petrol
dollars anymore. I'm taking a stand. God damn it, Like
it would have been like, yeah, well that's not that's
a redemption. No, I take too hot for a two
thousand seven though, that two seven that would have been

(01:18:54):
Dixie Chicks times five million. What the fund did this?
What did this? This person saying the Christmas movie instead
Petro war the truly the monologue we needed and we
didn't get. The reason we get instead is that he
went a wall because he requested a leave, which was

(01:19:16):
denied because he didn't tell his like military people that
he got married. And he went in a wall because
Sandy would have been disappointed if they So he's like
kind of blame. It's almost like the blame is being
put on her for the reason he went a wall,
because he said, well, I like my secret wife that
I haven't told anyone about would have been disappointed. Hell yeah, clod,

(01:19:46):
you know, we just needed the Claude the Clode thing.
That's a whole series all its own, Like there's just
so much going on. I'm like now officially fully opened
to a mini series that writes out baby yes, eliminates
where he goes to that camera he becomes Terry Richardson,

(01:20:10):
you don't want to see it. Actually it's pretty it's
prettyasy grim like we just don't talk about anymore. Yeah,
does this movie pass the Bechdel test? Yeah, but you
think it would pass more. You think it would. There
are quite a few women in the movie, and they
do interact, but often the conversations revolve around husbands and

(01:20:31):
boyfriends and stepdad figures, etcetera. Um, but there are things
to talk about, like sisterhood and being bad at cooking,
which technically counts batteries vibrator batteries. Yes, um, as far
as our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on

(01:20:53):
an examination of intersectional feminism. So for me, I don't know.
I'm kind of torn on this one because on one hand,
it really adheres to some just you know, holiday movie tropes,
some two thousand seven tropes two thousand seven tropes, the

(01:21:14):
way women are presented in media tropes in terms of
like the women all have like stakes and narratives surrounding
like romantic relationships with men, So coming at it from
that perspective, it's like. But on the other hand, because
this is typically such a white genre and Christmas movies

(01:21:38):
so aggressively, like like I don't know, like Hollywood is
just like only white Christians celebrate wintertime holidays, right, So
it's just it's nice and refreshing to see a Christmas
oriented movie that features a black family. The fact that
it's written and directed by a black filmmaker who based

(01:22:02):
a lot of these characters on either members of his
family or himself, so it's a black creator telling his
own story. I really like the women in the story.
I wish we had gotten to know them better. I
wish we had they had narratives outside of romantic pursuits.
We do learn a little tiny bit about each one

(01:22:24):
as far as like interior exterior lives, but it's always
pretty vague. So it's like, I don't know, do we
know that much about them? So I don't know. There's
just it's kind of a mixed bag for me. Uh,
Like I said, I think this would have served better
as like a series. I would have I would love
a show about this family. We had like ten bottle

(01:22:45):
episodes about each character. That would be like all the stories,
all these stories or most of them like that Chris
Brown one probably scraped that, but like all of them
wore like you're like, oh, this is really something, but
then where it is it go? So with that in mind,
I don't know, maybe like a two and a half

(01:23:06):
or three. I'm leaning I just like I said, I
really like the characters. The performances are amazing, especially Loretta
Divine is incredible, Regina King amazing. Each of those characters
deserve better. So I'm gonna land on a three, I think,

(01:23:28):
And um, I'll give them all to Idrisalba's Ma Cavity
just kidding, yeah, I think. Also just split them among
the four main women in in the story. Whatever that
fraction works out too. I'm leaning around the same at
a two point five three, uh, for much the same reason.
I mean, I guess it really is like it is.

(01:23:52):
It's amazing to see. Like I think We've been having
this conversation um over the past several months more and
more like movie is about black joy and movies about families,
and movies about the American black experience that is not
really deeply shaped by trauma. And this is the perfect
genre to explore that, and but it's so rarely done.

(01:24:16):
This movie's um existence and success is like incredible, especially
like this fucking cast is unreal, Like it's just just
the careers that the vast majority of this cast has
gone on to have. It's just like minus Chris Brown,
you know a lot of upward trajectories and a notable
downward one. Um. But all I said, like, the cast

(01:24:39):
is so incredible, the chemistry between everyone is so good.
And then yeah, my my note is kind of the
same thing of like, if you're going to bring in
such an amazing group of female actors, don't just give
them stories about husbands and boyfriends and like it's a
waste of the talent. And I really, I mean, I

(01:24:59):
don't think that we really know anything about these women
outside of their relationship to men and sons outside of
the Lisa Kelly Um sisterhood, but all of their conflicts
revolve around their relationships towards men. So I just I A,
I was frustrated by that because it's like, you have
fucking Regina King, she can do anything, like let's see more,

(01:25:23):
let's see like questions I had as I was watching.
I was like, well, what what would Lisa have done
if she didn't feel like she had to stay back
with the family, Like did she have an aspiration that
was kind of ruined in her view by the fact
that Kelly went on to have her career follow up question,
what is Kelly's career? What does she do? Why do

(01:25:46):
we talk more about whether she's fucking Santa or not
then what her job is like? There were just so
many especially given the variety of the mail plot and
how I think pretty much, without exception, all the male
plots were at least tethered in some way to their career,

(01:26:07):
where like Claude is a Wall, Macavity is Macavity, ng uh,
all of their stories are related to their careers. And
we don't even really know what the female characters do
or wanted to do outside of Madear owns a cleaners,
but we don't know anything about that really either, Like so,

(01:26:29):
and then on top of I mean, and I wish
that we saw more of Madear and her daughters selfishly
because I want more scenes with Loretta Divine and Regina King,
but like that's a meeting. So I think that this
movie is really good, and it's it's especially for its time.
It's like it's very of its time in a lot
of ways, and we can tear that apart all day,

(01:26:49):
but it's a movie it's a joyful movie about black
American family. We don't get that a lot, and um,
I hope that we continue to get more in this genre.
It care about what women are doing that aren't with men.
So I'll go I guess I'll go a three as well,
and I will give my nipples to give two of

(01:27:11):
them to mel because I want. I also, I really
liked her, and she disappeared about halfway through the movie,
And I will give my other nipple to my dear
because Loretta Divine rocks truly. What about you, Miles, Uh,
maybe two and a half three? Maybe I'll go three

(01:27:34):
rather than just to give a slight advantage because it's weird,
like half of the film negates the other half, so
you're like, but also like, I'm also looking at this
through the lens of it being a Christmas film, so
I'm already like, this is not like a movie. Really.
I I really consider these kinds of films like absolute
background noise during the holidays, because none of them know

(01:27:57):
there's it's really hard to find any film that's offering
anything of substance. And just like the way the genre
has like morphed over the years, as it is like
flavorless is the flavor. Uh, so I'll give it. I'll
give them three and just you know, maybe I would
knock them down because for that escalade line about being
a good investment really fucking kissed me off. No, fuck

(01:28:18):
it too to wow. I don't know why. No, no,
no no, I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do
with the representation of women. So I will still keep
it through. I'm sorry, I have to keep I have
to sort of compartmentalize one must Hell yeah, well, myles,
thank you so much for for being here, for talking
this Christmas with us. Where can people follow you? Check

(01:28:38):
out your stuff? Tell us everything. Oh it's not much,
just miles of gray wherever wherever you got stuff? And
uh daily Zeitgeist talking every day. If you want to
hear my takes on the sordid universe of ours or
fiance if you want to hear me just be high
and talk about um. You can follow us on social

(01:29:01):
media on Twitter, on Instagram, on our patreon a k
A Matreon, which is at patreon dot com, slash Bechtel Cast.
It's a fun place this month because we're doing the
terrible Netflix ones. We're talking Princess switched to and Christmas
Prince to Princess switch. I say, Christmas Princess. There it's

(01:29:28):
the Princess, the Prince, Christmas the Christmas Prince switch switched again,
switched again at the So for more of that, go
to man. It's only five dollars of us and it
gets you to Bottos episodes every month. Um. And then

(01:29:52):
for our merch, you can go to t public dot
com slash the Bechtel Cast and grab some some merch
for for holiday gifts. Go for it. Who's stopping you?
I dare you? Thank you so much for listening and
two miles again, and we'll be back with another holiday

(01:30:13):
disaster next week. Indeed, bye bye bye

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}This Christmas with Miles Gray