Toy Story with Sadie Dupuis

When no one is around, Jamie and Caitlin come to life to discuss Toy Story with special guest Sadie Dupuis! Recorded live at Good Good Comedy Theater in Philadelphia and The Rockwell with the Women in Comedy Festival in Boston!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everybody, Welcome to another episode of the Vextel Cast.
Here we are and my name is Caitlin And what
you're about to hear is a bit of a frankenstein
of an episode about the movie Toy Story. Ever heard
of it? That's right, because we recorded two different live

(00:22):
shows about the same movie about Toy Story on our
most recent East Coast tour. One was in Philadelphia at
Good Good Comedy Theater and one was at the Rockwell
as a part of the Women in Comedy Festival in Boston,
Um with our wonderful guest speed Or Teases Sadie Dupre So,

(00:45):
thank you to everyone who came to those shows. And
I think we we've got the best of both, to
quote my Lord and Savior Hannah montana Um contained in
today's episode. Yes, so enjoy that. But before we get
to it, we just have a few things to plug.
Hot plug. Speaking of live shows, we've got another one

(01:08):
right here in sunny Los Angeles. Yes, we are going
to be covering one of my favorite movies, Anastasia eight
h with Anna Sara Gina at the Ruby on July
And it's your birthday show, It's my birthday show, and
it's also our last l a live Bechtel cast for

(01:29):
several months. So if you've been thinking about coming to
a show and I haven't done it yet, this is
the one to come to because it'll be a couple
of months before we're back. And why is that, bitch,
I'll tell you We're gonna be in uh Europe for
a bit of the summer. I'm going to be bringing
my show Boss Home Is Girl to London and then

(01:50):
Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Uh. You're doing a whole day month
at every damn night for a whole month. So if
you live there or you know anyone who lives there,
please make them come to the show. I don't know
anyone there. Uh. And that's what like first of August
through they or something like that. So I'll be in
London doing the show on July at the Bill Murray

(02:15):
Yikes in London. So and that's only five pounds to
attend five pounds five pounds very affordable, so so please come.
There'll only be to London shows and then I'll be
in Edinburgh from July to August every damn night at
ten pm at Pleasants Baby Grand except for August twelve.

(02:37):
So don't come on that. And my actual birthdays August eighteen,
so definitely come to that. That's the day to that one,
and that's the European t for me. Well guess what, listeners,
I will also be in Europe around this time. But
if I didn't know, I was like what, I am

(02:58):
joining up with Jamie in Edinburgh towards the end of August.
I'm going to be doing some stand up shows at Fringe.
I'm doing some shows in London, and who knows, keep
your eyes peeled for perhaps another live show. Perhaps we're
in talk. Perhaps if you listen to this podcast and

(03:21):
you may want to, you know, see us live in
a particular city that may be called London. But for
the moment, you know, just get tickets to everything to
be safe, and keep keep checking our social media's and
our website becktel cast dot com and click on the
live tab because we will put any and all show dates,

(03:44):
including live becktel Cast if there ever were to be
one of those, and then also Jamie's shows, my shows,
all the the info will be there. So we'll see
you in l a and July. We'll see you in
your up in August, and we'll see you right now
at our live Toy Story episode Wow Wow we take

(04:09):
Tity and Beyond dodcast. The questions asked, movies have win
minimum all their discussions boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism?
The patriarchy seth and best start changing it with the cast?

(04:31):
What the fuck? Guys? Who as us? Oh my god,
Mike's black cherry lemonade. That's a good six or seven? Yeah,
I'm sorry, there's more than there's there's it. There's at
least ten. Blood orange is number one, but that doesn't

(04:51):
come in bottles anyways. Hey, welcome to the Beckdel Cast.
Thanks for coming. What's Oh my god, so I'm saying
we're back at the Women Comedy Festival. Yes we are.
We're in Boston. We've got the hometown of Banding. Such
a strange mix of people from all phases of my

(05:12):
life here tonight. My divorce parents are here together. Yeah,
this is well. The Women In Comedy Festival is special
to us for a number of reasons, but it was
also I believe our first ever live Bechtel Cast show
was at the Women In Comedy Festival two years ago.
It was and then twenty people came and no one

(05:35):
knew where they were there. So, uh, clap if you
have listened to the Bechtel Cast before. Yeah, yeah, okay,
that was a free applause section. Now the question we're
curious about. Clap just as enthusiastically. If you have never
listened to the show before, and we're brought here by

(05:55):
a friend, Oh okay, cool, So we will give you
the rundown and what to expect. So our podcast is
a feminist movie podcast where we examine the representation of
women in movies not that good, and we use the

(06:16):
Bechtel test as a jumping off point to initiate that conversation.
And the Bechtel test is the media test invented by
cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires that in any piece of
media there there there be pirate. Uh, there are two
female identifying characters with names who speak to each other

(06:38):
about something other than a man. Sounds like it should
be easy. But but but the movie we're talking about tonight,
you know. So we're super we're super psyched to be here,
and I'm really really happy to bring out our guests. Yes,
she is a writer, a poet. She is the guitarist,

(07:02):
vocalist and songwriter for the rock and roll I ever
heard of it? Uh the rock band Speedy Ortiz. It's
Sadie Dupuis, welcome, thanks for being here. Thank you the

(07:26):
city where dreams sometimes come half true and then you leave.
That's sums it up for me too. I love it.
I love that about here. So we're talking about Toy
Story today by rock of applause? Is anyone not seeing
the movie Toy Story? Yes, one person brave bravely applauded. Okay, great,

(07:54):
so we Yeah, no, I really I always love the
noise that the person who hasn't seen the movie chooses
to make because it just is very There is a
cowardly way to do it, in a nod cowardly way
to do it. Now you owned it. Yeah, I love
You're like, yeah, fuck that. So Sadie, tell us about
your history, your relationship with the movie Toy Story. Yeah,

(08:18):
I saw it in theaters. I think I'm probably the
same age as the kids in Toy Story. Okay, so
I'm like the target demographic for buying a Mr. Potato
Head loved the Randy Newman songs, have gone to see
the subsequent Toy Stories in theaters, But I don't think

(08:38):
I've ever repeat watched any of them until last night, Jamie,
what about You? I've seen a million times. The first
time I saw it, I don't know if I was
fully forming memories yet. I feel like those are the
kind of movies that funk with your head the most,
Like the ones that you don't even remember seeing for
the first time and then you're like, oh, I enternalize

(09:00):
whatever funked up thing happened in that one. But yeah, no,
I mean, I love. It's not my favorite Pixar movie
because I'm Monsters Incorporated, stand But I mean, I mean,
I feel like I'm just as attached to it as
as any kid. It's it's good. What's your history with it?
I guess I would have been nine when it came out,

(09:22):
so I like, saw it right away, grew up with it,
watched it quite a bit. I love Toy Story three.
I've never cried harder in my life except for the
beginning of Paddington one and the end of Paddington two.
Story three, like in any other Disney movie putting characters

(09:43):
in a trash compact or about to die a fiery
hell death, would I mean in Toy Story if like
you're so emotionally attached that it's really sad. But in
any other like underthought Disney franchise, it would be kind
of funny, Like if Beauty and the Beast tour in

(10:03):
a trash compactor about to be lit on fire, I'd
kind of like, maybe go for it. So yeah, should I?
We just jump in with the recap. Let's do the recap? Okay?
So we meet Andy. He is a young boy who
loves playing with toys. He's very original. His favorite toy

(10:24):
is Woody the Cowboy. Yeah. He And then we meet
various of Andy's other toys, Slinky Rex, bo Peep, Mr
Potato Head Ham Ham Ham, I like Cam. He's got
all male toys except for a piece of his lamp,
which I never realized watching this movie before the bow Peep,

(10:47):
How does she? How does she detach? She would shatter
right right, like those three sheep are stuck together? Why
is she not on that lamp? And then yeah, and
then it's like she's porcelain because like she's they can't
get down from the night stands. That's a problem I

(11:08):
always have. God relatable. And then we learned that all
of these toys are alive. They are sentient. They have
more complex emotions than I do. Uh, that scene is
still so fun. I don't know. I like, I know, obviously,

(11:29):
I know that the toys come to life, right, but
I sort of forgot and and then the mom re
shuts the door, and then Tom Hanks is like hello,
Like it's well because the first scene they're getting battered
around violently like lifeless toys. Yeah, and then suddenly potato
heads like no more toddlers. Does that hurt them? I

(11:52):
think it must on an emotional level at least, right.
I was like, they can't bruise, but they do hurt.
They have a nervous system, but they have cognition like this,
how do you have a brain but not a nerve?
It's fine, I just have a lot of questions about

(12:15):
the toys. Okay. So in a week from the day
that we opened the story, we learned that Andy's family
is moving. But today is Andy's birthday party, which is
concerning because all the toys are worried that Andy will
receive gifts that are other toys that will be cooler
and that will replace the existing toys. Yeah, and that

(12:37):
like that whole like line of thinking. I feel I
just generated a whole generation of child hoarders, right because
in theory sharing is good and like giving your toys
away to someone else's in theory nice, But in this
universe it makes the cowgirls sing a really sad song

(12:58):
about you in the second movie. Yes, but the toys
are sitting there. We've got these like g I Joe standings.
I think they're called combat carls. Yeah, they're spying every
toy that comes in on the birthday party, and the
toys upstairs are like judging what comes in potato heads,
Like someone brings like bed sheets or something, and he's

(13:20):
like seven years old, who brought bed sheets to his
birthday party? Yeah? That that goes on to expless. They're
buzz light ear Budge, which which we do see Andy
having like a new bed spread and maybe but changes
his whole bed and the decor of his room a
week before they move. I don't think so that's true. Yeah,

(13:47):
mom's just doing whatever it takes to get through that
move with less crying children. Yeah. So everything seems fine
at first during the birthday party, but then a surprise
gift comes out. It turns out that it's a buzz
Light year figure see I like my version of the twist,
which is that Tom Hanks peeks over the bed and
he's like, oh my god, it's Tim Allen, a Republican,

(14:09):
and he gets really freaked out. Politically, sure, because there
is what feels like a pretty complex power structure within
the toy community, like a dictator who like, no one
elected Woody, He's just the leader because he's Andy's favorite toy.

(14:30):
There should be a democratic election. What are they doing? Well?
They set Woody up in the opening scenes as this
gregarious boss of all the toys. He's like if Michael
Scott never fucked up. But as soon as there's competition,
Woody gets really sour. Yeah, and I guess the original

(14:51):
direction of Toy story was for Woody to be like
a bully villain. They had Josh Wheden like doctor the
script because wood he was too mean. And yet he
is still very means. He's still attempts a murder in
the movie, and then probably casting Tom Hanks, they're just like,
no one will notice, no one will remember the murder.

(15:13):
Tom Hanks was still when they cast him, he was
like not really quite famous yet, like Forrest Gunk came
out after he'd already been cast, so he was like
a relative unknown because this was like one that they
cast him. Yeah, because computer here, I'm about to say
something very intelligent. Computer movie take a long time. Thank

(15:40):
you had no idea. It just comes out of me sometimes.
But do you have a master's degree in screenwriting from
Boston University. I don't like to bring it up. So
buzz let your shows up on the scene. He's this
space ranger doll and what he goes and talks to him,

(16:00):
and buzz does not realize that he is a toy.
He thinks he's like a real space ranger and then
the other toys are like immediately very impressed with buzz
Bo Peep's horny although that is he that's her resting face.
Both people in this movie like first of all, and

(16:20):
we'll like really get into this later. She's the only
female character really that like or the one who appears
on screen the longest, even though no woman in this
movie has narrative impact. But the way she talks, it's
like so horny that you don't really know what she's saying.
She it sounds like he reminds me of Jessica Rabbit

(16:42):
if she were drawn good right, like like a chaster. Yeah,
it sounds like her mouth never fully closes, you know.
She's like, oh, I'm just a cup of it back well,
which is funny because we see some of those, like

(17:04):
toy Wooden get a really hilarious joke. Probably so all
the toys are obsessed with buzz, and so is Andy,
and it feels to Woody as though Andy might be
replacing him with buzz. He gets worried. Then the whole

(17:24):
movie just turns into like a toy dick measuring contest. Basically, yeah,
because it's like I have wings that become immediately erect.
What He's like, what are you? He's like fingering his
little string scure, He's like, why is string not hard?

(17:46):
He's just dangling behind me, man emasculating the Meanwhile, we
meet Sid the sky boyfriend. Yes, he is the neighbor
boy who tortures toys for fun. And yeah he's a maker.

(18:10):
He started Double Team. Sid could go to Harvard on
an independent study. I mean he is creative. We have
to give him that. He does have a sign in
his bedroom that says I heart explosives, which is concerning.
It was really when I saw that, like the aesthetic

(18:30):
of his room, like the glowy poster. I was like,
I've fucked future. That guy he's got like a fake
Marilyn Manson poster. It says like rocker dude or something
like that. Okay, so we meet Sid and then Andy's
mom's like, let's go to Pizza Planet Andy, and he's
like okay, and she's like, you can only bring one
toy and wood. He knows that and he's going to

(18:50):
pick Buzz. So he premeditates a crime. Okay. The way
that premeditation is shown though, it's like in one shot
and you just see would he look at Buzz look
at a window and they go, which is I guess premeditation.
But he sends the RC car flying across the window

(19:13):
sill without its consent, making him an accessory to his crime.
Not fair to the car, right, and then it is
attempts to just like knock him under the bed. He
accidentally knocks him out of the window and all the
other toys are like, oh my god, would you you're
a murderer? Right, and he's like it was an accident

(19:35):
and we know We're like what do you are a murderer? Yeah?
Mr potato head like pulls out like an undercover cop badge,
and it's like I've been trailing you for here. It's
also like, um, I think the etch a sketch at
that point sketches a noose and a sketch when other
people are involved, like what he's in the beginning, there's

(19:57):
this gag where um would he's like draw with the
to sketch and etch a sketched as a pistol Um
potato Head has him doing noose when Ea sketches of
his own volition, he's drawing buzz fan pictures. Fan art
is key, which is not good like it looks like okay,
I'm sorry. Only other options are to draw weapons of death.

(20:22):
Let Edra sketch do his buzz fan art even though
it's bad. Just don't understand why he's you like he's
a good Sorry to gender at don't gender I did
it first, I did it. I mean all of Andy's
toys are coated male, so I think it's except the
troll and etch a sketch. True, So this whole accident

(20:44):
happens or that's what like woo are He's trying to
convince the toys that there was an accident. Um so
now Andy has to take Woody to Pizza Planet, but
Buzz like manages to hitch a ride along. They're getting
a little scuffle and they get left behind, but then
they make it to a piece of planet. And then
before Woody and Buzz can get back to Andy did

(21:05):
the scary neighbor boy part of the Aliens? He comes
into the Little Claw and then the Aliens are there
and we're like, where that's when we go? What's what
I show up for? The little Alien scene? Really, I'm like,
I can't wait till this is over. Oh, I love it.
It's so annoying. I love it there. I feel like

(21:27):
the Aliens are like a prototype for what the Minions
would later become. It like looks great on a lunchbox.
They basically say the same thing, except I think that
maybe like the Aliens were too christ complex e to
like get their own franchise because I forgot They're like
the Claw is God, I haven't chosen. I love it

(21:50):
so much. The Minions are like Lawless, but the Minias
are wild and also I love them. They're so they're cute.
We're gonna do can we do Minions Month on the
Patreon for my birthday. Oh, in August, I get to
choose minions. August would be fun. That's horrible. Um, there's

(22:14):
no end. They're all like dudes, all the minions. Yes,
or would we even talk about we're talking about the
complex male dynamics and how they're toxic. Yes. So they
get captured by Sid, who takes Buzzing Woody back to
his house. And there are some other toys who have

(22:37):
been They've gotten plastic surgery, and they're like amazing because
baby Spider, Baby Spider, we got roller Bob, We've got
we got legs, we got wind the frog. Yes, little
wine ducky. Sid is taking these toys in for surgery

(22:58):
and Buzzes observing this, He's like, I don't believe that
man ever got his medical degree. And I love you
know how like um, cats think that everything is a cat,
Like cats think you are a cat. I know that
cats have eight nipples and that well, I can't really

(23:18):
think that every think something like this. I can't speak
to how many nipples buzz has, um if any, but
I'm willing everything is like a man like he believes
he's a full size man, and Sid, in his mind
as a grown man, not a real doctor, but so
buzz and what do you look at these toys and

(23:40):
they think that they are cannibals because they judge, which
just goes to show how intolerant would he is this
entire Yeah, he's like a stand in for like white
patriarchy that doesn't want to be replaced. It's like, I
don't recognize these toys cannibals. They're trying to escape. And
then like Buzz sees a commercial for himself and this

(24:02):
is when he realizes that he is not the Buzzlighter,
He is just a toy. So he has a nervous
breakdown and gets very depressed. I like the buzz Lightyear
gets so upset that he is not the coolest guy
in the world that he allows himself to be strapped
to a rocket to be killed. That is very that's

(24:26):
a very fragile move. His fragile man, not the coolest
guy ever to fucking kill me. Now, Like it's also
Sid is able to have rockets shipped to his home
and he's what like ten, I don't know, he's got
hearts e I mean he hearts explosives. Read when we

(24:51):
see the buzz light your commercial, we see what we
can only assume is um Sid's dad passed out with
like soda cans. I mean, so there's a lot of
like coded stuff about Sid's life that I's do in
the best with what he has. He seems truly like
a neglected child that is turned into a villain. Like

(25:12):
it's just so there's so much and with sid sister
as well, but we can get into that. Yeah, here's
a lot. Yeah, so the rest of the story is
Sid's planning to blow Buzz up with the rockets, so
what he has to rescue him and get back over
to Andy's before the family moves away. And then what
he's like, oh, wait, these toys aren't cannibals. Hey, can

(25:33):
you help me save my friend Buzz? And they're like, well,
I guess even though none of them can speak, well,
they fixed They just like fixed buzzes arm. And then
he's like, oh, they're nice, And then you're nice. Now
let me deliver my show stopping speech about friendship exactly. Yeah,
steals the moment. He's got a friend in me, You've
got a friend in me. Let's get out of this house.

(25:57):
They successfully save Buzz. They use the rocket to get
to the moving van, they make their way back into
Andy's family's car, and everything's great business business, and yeah,
so that's the story to story. Do you want to

(26:27):
start talking with with things we like? Because that's a
shorter list, I think in terms of like what there
is to talk about with women at all? Sure, do
you have anything that you like? Is it? I mean?
I like the movie Don't Get Me yea. I mean
it's definitely one of those movies that, like, we all like,
but when you watch it with women in mind, you're

(26:47):
just like where I mean, like the First Toy Story
movie especially, and we have like some some stuff to
talk about with with the other two, but the First
Toy Story Movie is like known were women being almost
completely absent from the story and especially like there is
really no woman that has narrative impact in this whole

(27:10):
movie except for Andy's mom, only because she has a
driver's license. Like if Andy's mom did not have a
driver's license, women have no agency in this story. Metcalf
is moving this whole family across the country, right, I
mean credit for this one person. Well, that's so that
that is one of the things that I like, is

(27:31):
like it seems like as far as we know, and
like Andy and his sister are being raised by a
single mom, and there's not a lot made of that,
like I feel like usually in children's entertainment, especially like
if there is not the you know, TV nuclear family
that is pointed out to you a lot, and it's

(27:51):
pointed out as being a problem. Um So, seeing like
Andy and his terrifying Uncanny Valley little sister being raised
by a single mom who was also terrifying on Kenny
Valley was kind of cool because it's not, you know,
like drawn attention to have like where's their dad, you know,

(28:14):
which I think would sort of be the default for that.
But I think so I was looking into this because
I was also curious and I hadn't remembered that um
Lori metcalf in amazing nineties floral Print. Laggings was a
single mom in this movie until rewatching it. But apparently
that was a financial choice rather than a narrative choice.
Because Toy Stories the first like fully computer animated film.

(28:36):
It's the first feature length for Pixar computer time. It
took a long time computer exactly. Pixar hadn't worked with
Disney prior to this, and the only reason it was
even considered was because um Nightmare before Christmas had gone well,
So they were constantly running out of money, coming with
like weird pushback from Disney, like Disney wanted them to

(28:57):
make it a musical. They were not really how in that,
Thank God, and they're like, we're going to split the difference,
will give you Randy Newman, final Hartfen Randy Newman plus
a Kuna matata for like ten seconds. So the computer
technology to build this movie was like not. They basically

(29:18):
couldn't have done it, and they don't understand how they did.
And they were under deadlines that they couldn't have reached.
So they didn't have the time or money to build
a second adult. So they just did the mom And
if you look at Andy's birthday party, all of the
other children are also Andy. They have his face. And
if you look at Sid the like bully neighbor kid,

(29:39):
he basically is Andy with a different Yeah, all the
people and so they've never commented on Andy's dad because
it wasn't like a narrative choice designed to drive the movie.
They just didn't have the money to make Dad. They're fine.
Some of the best worst Internet rabbit holes to go
down are Pixar Reddit theories. People have a lot of time,

(30:05):
and there's someone he said that there's they're like, oh no.
Andy's parents are definitely not divorced because weeks before the
events of Toy Story one, Andy's dad died of polio. Huh,
a curable disease that no one gets anymore. Well, the

(30:25):
theory is that Andy's dad contracted polio as a child
and it came back. Wasn't support this theory. His father,
his only surviving possession was woody. I hate it it.

(30:46):
I feel nothing for the pole, Like, who is his
dad three hundred years old? Why can't he just have
a mom? Why can't you just have a single mom?
So yeah, good that the movie doesn't call attention to
the fact that it's like, you know, what appears to
be a single mom raising two children, or like villainizes

(31:06):
that in any way because that's like another version of
what we tend to see. But also Andy's mom, Yes,
she does have narrative impact because she is she's the
driver of the vehicles. And then also we almost never
see her face, even like there might be one wide

(31:27):
shot where like we see a glimpse of her face,
but usually it's like either her back and that might
also be an animation. Is that a Peanuts choice too?
Though That's what I thought was, Like, are just irrelevant
in this world in the first one, but that changes
in later year. It doesn't super bother me that, Like,
I feel like you're not because you only see the
adults from like toy Angles in this movie. But I

(31:51):
like triple checked this. As of the end of the
third movie, we still don't know what Andy's mother's name is,
which is like, I mean, and we like go back
and forth on this. You know, it's like, is mom
a character name? In some cases yes, in other cases
it's kind of unclear. But if you've been in three
feature length movies and have not been given the courtesy

(32:14):
of a first name, that is violent. But how would
the toys even perceive an adults name? I mean, it
could be, but but it's like, you know, how would
they perceive Andy's name? We were discussing, I mean, we
we went down a little redd rabbit hole before we
got in front of all you tonight. But um, there's
a theory that Andy's mom is the original owner of

(32:36):
the toy Jesse, in which case she does have a name.
It would be Emily that bitch. Is there anything else
that we like about the movie in terms of its
like representation of women, I guess I like, Um, there
are two moments where the main like macho toys are

(33:00):
made to play women. For a second, so when when
Woodie's like running point on the toy opening party, they
call him motherbird, which I thought was very sweet. And
then um, we have buzz later as Mrs Nesbit, he's
he's um sidds I forget sid. Sister's name Hannah, And
Hannah's only toy with a head, so she's really slight.
She can put a bonnet on him, and uh so

(33:24):
I feel like I like that they they speak to
the idea that toys can have a mutable gender depending
on like what the kid playing with the toy wants.
Like we see all of Andy's toys as male because
Andy's got daddy is shoes. I don't know, I mean,
he's got a lot of things to sort out. And
Hannah does not care that buzz light Ear looks like
a spaceman. He's a space woman in a little bonnet.

(33:46):
The Mrs Nesbitt scene is like polarizing too. It's it's
where there's like a lot of different reads of that scene.
I I don't really know where to fall in it.
I I do like that, like the toy just becomes
the gender of the child that is playing with it.
I think that that's a cool philosophy to abide by.
And there was like when that when that especially just

(34:07):
because it's when that scene came on and there was
like a male coated toy that was dressed up like
a woman, I was like, Oh, they're gonna make some
like horrendous joke that's not going to age well, Like
there's going to be like this panic e joke. This
is really sick of drinking dargy linked tea. Yeah, Like
and so I I was like, I'm like, it's not

(34:28):
necessarily a wind. But I was just relieved that they
didn't take the cheap awful approach to that joke, right,
I guess probably because it was rated G and they couldn't.
I mean, tam, it's a murder, Yeah, I mean, I
think there's perhaps a lot to not admire so much

(34:52):
about this movie when it comes to the topics that
we discuss. Andy's toys, As we already said, like they're
all most entirely coated as male, there voiced by actors
who were men. There's like a damseling scene in the
opening scene of the movie where bo Peep, like her
sheep needs to be rescued by Woody and it's like

(35:14):
and the ransom ist five bazillion dollars. So already we're
just like, well, Andy's certainly not a progressive six year
old because he's probably you know, watching movies where women
are damseled and he's like, well, that's what women do.
But I mean, like bo Peep is like the one

(35:36):
notable female toy character who has lines at all, because
there is that little like troll Doll who bikini, but
troll Doll never speaks and could be you know, just
because of the outfit. We don't have to do how
Handy designated that troll Doll definitely, but troll Doll is

(35:58):
just confident. I was like, hell yeah, there was so
apparently in the script they wanted Barbie, they couldn't get Barbie,
but tell was like toy story who they wanted Barbie,
and Josh Weeden wrote this scene which I really like.
So we were talking about in the end when the
toys are all at at SIDS and they're escaping, and
there's this like I assume we'll get into it like

(36:20):
a horror horror scene where they scare SIDS straight to
never mess with toys again. Um. Initially, the way that
the toys were meant to get out of SIDS was
that Barbie was going to show up and do a
terminator scene and be like, come with me if you
want to live, and Barbie was going to rescue everyone
from SIDS. But they couldn't get rights to Barbie, so
they devised yet another like weird Rube Goldberg toy situation

(36:42):
where they horror movie stood into letting them frame. So
there was gonna be Yeah, there was gonna be a
like a female toy hero. Josh Weeden tried for it.
Tel was like, that would have been pretty cool. I
mean just like I mean, to have like female characters
doing anything that acts the plot would have been nice.

(37:02):
But bo Peep is literally there to either flirt or
provide emotional support. She frets. She also frets she oh,
you're right worrying The three came about I'm either fretting,
flirting or providing emotional support. She's got basically no narrative impact.

(37:25):
You can take her out of the movie, the plot
remains essentially the same if you apply the sexy lamp test,
which is a sexy lamp, right, So like replace her
with like the hot leg lamp from her Christmas story,
and the movie is the same. Yeah, she's just there

(37:45):
to flirt with wood with Woody and like give him
horny connections. She's like, oh yeah, she's like whitty, I
can't get someone us to watch the Sheep tonight, like

(38:08):
and then, right, is this movie suggesting that these toys fuck?
I don't even like. But then also bo Peep seems
like she's just made horny by any impressive male character,
because whenever Buzz shows up and he does his like
falling with style thing, she's like, I've found my moving buddy,

(38:31):
and then it's like fanning herself and like so horny
about it. So both people only exists in the story
to be like Woody's girlfriend. Most of the time we
see her on screen, she's doing some sort of like
emotional nurturing because women be nurturing, like oh Andy loves you,

(38:54):
and it's like they don't even give her. I I
for I was like, maybe there's like one of those
shitty throwaway moments that we hate. But it's something where
like in like an action scene, bo Peep gets to
do one thing and everyone's like, whoa, she just used
that staff to stab someone in the eye or like
something less violent than that. Um, But she doesn't even

(39:17):
get like one of those corny ass girl power moments
like like that. I mean that was there was just nothing,
nothing for her to do. She's not even tokenized, which
for a woman being tokenized, do you know your movie
is a fucking up? And then both people, I mean

(39:37):
she is. It's kind of like a weird character in
this franchise in general, because she's in the second one
to some extent, but it's very much sidelined because that's
when Jesse the cow girl comes in, and then in
the third movie she's not in it at all. It's
like implied she was given away in a garage sale
because they're like, we don't know how to real characters. Bye,
like they have we shipped her away. We all examined

(40:01):
the toy story four plot summaries. Yes, so she's about
to be heroic, right right, Well, I've seen the trailer
that I do haven't explored much beyond that though, she's
like a liberated toy now and she's going to teach
Woody a trigger two. I don't know about all this.
There's like a like the new bo peep there. They

(40:22):
do kind of like a number of things I think
are like corny and like what dudes do when they're look, Oh,
I actually don't hate women because she's wearing pants now.
Like it's like she gets pants on that lamp there,
she's porcelain. It is impossible, but they, I mean, they
gave her a new outfit. She wears like a pant

(40:42):
suit now. Now her like sheep stick is like a
like a way I don't know what, but it, but
they basically did a post me to redesign of this
character to be like, no, she's actually empowered and cool
and also now and she's gonna, you know, tell Woody
a thing or two about a thing or two, which

(41:04):
is cool in theory, but it almost just feels like
moving from one shitty trope to like a merry suit trope,
just turning her from like this feminine to like a
badass hashtag girl boss who doesn't take any nonsense from anybody,
And it's like we just want a character. Right, there's

(41:28):
stuff that exists in the middle of those two things
that I don't I mean, I'm excited to see it.
I just anytime, like male screenwriters are like resolved feminism,
like she got pants that she's made, Like I I
just don't. I don't trust it because I want to

(41:50):
read a quote from an article l A Times about
Tory story for specifically about the peep's character. It's as
she became someone as Coolie, says Coolie as the director
of towards story for who can stand up for herself,
has confidence and has seen a lot of things, has

(42:11):
lived through it. She's more well rounded. We looked at
different kinds of female characters, mad Max Fury Roads and
Parator furiosa Ray from Star Wars. Marian from Indiana Jones
is a huge one as well. And I quote, I
just think he's naming women he's heard of, Like it's
it just seems very defensive, like he just described something

(42:34):
impossibly vague of like you know, she's a woman. She's
done things before, she's woken up, she's fallen back asleep,
she's gotten dressed, she's gotten undressed, she's washed a few times.
Here's a list of three women I've heard of feminism
solves it does. It feels very much like lip service.
It's like, yeah, who do people think are the feminist

(42:57):
characters again? Oh? Yes, these ones? And then just like
said it to a reporter. I really hope that I'm
wrong and that they didn't just do this like very
reductive like Mary Sue character that you know makes everyone
feel like towards story fixed feminism or something, but that
like just strictly based on like if you look at

(43:18):
the visual of like before after, like it seems kind
of like a hollow gesture. Sorry, keep her in the
same outfit. Why do I have to change my clothes
to discover myself? But it's never changes damn clothes in
his life, right, But I mean the way she's originally

(43:40):
designed is that she's attached to a lamb tachoo lamp,
but then in it like pink freely dress and like
the character ever of these sheets, I just I mean,
I don't hate the reason design dress and also like
to I guess because female characters are just so often

(44:03):
like hyper feminized in their look or wardrobe. I agree
with that. I just like she's logistically she's porcelain, you
can't change her outfit. But and and also in the redesign,
they change her into a blue pants suit. So I
feel like they're just they're like, oh, you didn't like
pink dress about blue pants? Like it's just it just

(44:26):
seems so lazy, and I like it's a I'm with
her gesture for sure. Yeah, Like it just seems like
if you have already written this character poorly, like since
you've fumbled this, like you can't just put a new
outfit on and be like the like there though I
remember story three. What is the beau Pie Bark in

(44:50):
Toy Story two other than being Woody's girlfriend. I think
it's just that I think that she does a few
more like Woody's girlfriend. But Woody has a female right now,
and that's yeah. And then and then Jesse, I mean
we can talk about Jesse a little bit. She's not
in the first movie, but like, Jesse is awesome in
Toy Story two, and she's got this like really detailed

(45:13):
female arc with a Sarah McLoughlin song about the tragedy
of being rejected by Andy's mom. By Andy's mom, it's
the only like woman woman relationship characters talking to each
other across space and time there spiritually, and yet Toy
Story two also fails the Becktel test. But then in

(45:34):
Toy Story three, Uh, there's like this bad storyline on
a number of levels where like Buzz loses his identity
again and then he becomes this like Latin lover stereotype
and Jesse falls in love with him, and then she
is there's already like an ongoing flirtation established between Jesse

(45:57):
and Buzz that he does not need to be in
the movie. But because it's like, oh, we have a
female character, we better make her like a boy because
what else, because what else is she going to do?
It almost like reminds me of like a Ron and
her mind E thing, where like you feel like the
writers were like, yeah, they're gonna love this, but then
when you see you're like someone is clearly settling like

(46:21):
this is Can we talk a little bit about how
much Woody sucks hestes terrible? Yes. I feel like there's
a number of ways to look at the Woody and
Buzz relationship. Ultimately, you know, it's like big picture. I

(46:45):
do like that there are two male characters who learn
how to have a meaningful friendship together. I feel like
it's like rare to like encourage, especially like young boys
to be like no, you can be friends with other
boys like and it's like a good positive thing. I

(47:05):
I like that. But their friendship is very fucked up.
It is mostly a dick measuring competition and it's all
about I mean, both of those characters get pretty severely
emasculated and have to recover at different points because, like
Woody is emasculated by no longer being the favorite of Andy,

(47:27):
and like he has to he lashes out from that
rejection and pushes, you know, accidentally pushes Buzz out a window,
and Buzz is emasculated by the fact that he is
not the only Buzz light Year. But to be fair,
imagine you thought you were like a hot shot space
cadet and you learn you are an eight inch tall toy.

(47:49):
I'm like, wait a minute, I'm not the Caitlin Durante,
host of the Backtel cast, which would you let yourself
be strapped to a rocket? Um life would feel pretty
meaningless if I learned there were like eight million others
of me made in a sweatshop, which they the toys
discussed very early on. They talked about that so much.

(48:14):
I just I mean, I do kind of like how
naive Buzzes. I think if they were both as antagonistic
and like world weary as what he appears to be,
it would be like a different movie. I mean. And
and like when Buzzes character starts out and everyone's impressed
by him, he's a pretty nice, gregarious character, Like he

(48:34):
is nice. There's like that whole montage where he's friendly
to everyone, is teaching people how to lift weights. Well,
I guess so along the lines of wood he originally
being a villain. They didn't intend for buzz to not
realize he was a toy, But when they heard how
Tim Allen was reading the character, they were like, he's
not playing it like he's a toy. He's playing it
like he's actually like buzz Aldrin. So they wrote that

(48:57):
whole thing of him not recognizing he's a toy because
Tim Allen wasn't a nuanced voice actor. He does. Tim Allen,
I hate him. So if you were if you were
a woman, like if you were like a woman voice
actor speaking from experience, they would say you're doing a
bad job because they're like, oh, mr Tim, we're so sorry.

(49:23):
We are going to have joh Sweden write you another
draft tonight because you cannot do your job, like what
do he is? Uh? You know? In retrospect and antagonistic,
flaccid devil many the way that Sid's family is presented,
I feel like there's a lot implied about Sid's family
that is bizarre and dark and unnecessary where I mean,

(49:47):
it's first of all a wild choice to make like
an eight year old the villain of the movie. But
I mean I mean when I was a kid, I
fully bought into it and thought I hated said I
hated his adorable little bull terrier dog Skud Scud, Yeah,
King's Scud like there when in retrospect, I mean, there's

(50:07):
so much about Sid's house and the way his family
operates that just implies that he is maybe neglected by
his parents a little bit, and that he might be
poorer than Andy's family. And there's I feel like there's
like a lot of weird coding going on with that
family that just sort of translates to like, very young

(50:28):
kids is like poorer kid with like less attentive parents
equals bad villain forever, which is such a horrible thing
to imply, like to any kids and also skull t shirt. Well,
we really see how the toys are formed by who
their owners are, because early on, when Buzz hasn't really
had like Andy's room imprinted on him, he says said

(50:51):
from the window from across the lawns, and he's like
that happy child. He sees said, like destroying a combat
carl and he's like that happy, smiling child. And like
that's kind of when I rewatched it as a thirty
year old and not a seven year old, I was like,
he's just having a really fucking fun time with his toys. Yeah,
like he just like it seems like he's neglected to

(51:12):
the point where he can have rockets shipped to his room.
But that's how you get that that's not his fault.
I mean, I think that there are some things implied
where like you never see either of his parents other
than a sleep, other than a sleep surrounded by cans.
Like there's a lot implied about his family. When Buzz
sees the commercial for Buzz Lightyear, we know it is morning,

(51:37):
but Buzz walks into a dark room where a TV
is on and there are cans everywhere and someone is
asleep on a recliner. I think it is implied that
Sid has an alcohol like dad and that that is
like it's just like the weird implicate like class and
family implications of that character who is just outright the

(51:58):
villain of the story. Like there's no sympathy, empathy anything
presented for Sid, who Like, if you saw a nine
year old kid who was acting out like that in
real life, you would be like, this kid probably needs
some guidance so or like as I call it, or
like someone to talk to. But um, in this they're like, no,

(52:20):
he just needs to be harassed by Tom Hanks. That'll
show him like he truly didn't seem like I don't
know why I am like standing for sins so bad,
but like he seems like a little goth boy who
like needs to be put on the right track. And
I just I don't like how they present that. I mean,

(52:41):
he is a product of his upbringing, and they imply
that because his upbringing is like coded as being like
lower income, that that's what and that's his faults. Is
that that that they're like, he's just a bad kid.
You know what bad kids are like, you know what
they act like, But like that and it happens in
a vacuum and then they present. Andy is like, and

(53:03):
this is a good kid because like his mom pays
attention to him, and his sister looks scary, and his
lawn is more manicured than sids is. I mean, if
we're if we're putting like pound for pound, Sid is
more interesting than Andy. He's doing laps around Andy. What
does it? What was Andy do? Does sexist act outs

(53:25):
with his toys? Sid's doing full on like surgery medical procedures.
He's an aspiring surgeon and just needs needs a mentor
to be like Sid, you these are very scary, but
there's a practical application of this interest. And he's just

(53:46):
a kid who is like fucking around with his toys.
Like that's every kid. I mean, he's just I had
a couple. I had a couple baby dollar As a child,
there was a baby doll that, um, it would like
crawl a little bit and then cry, and then crawl

(54:06):
a little bit more and cry. I don't know if
anyone had this baby doll, but it was very annoying
and that the crying sounds were awful. So I ripped
its head off and threw it over my balcony, like
that's not all I played with barbies. Did you cut hair?

(54:29):
I cut their hair off? I wasn't. I wasn't allowed
to cut hair. Oh man, I cut I would. I
had some barbies that I was like, I want you
to keep your hair, but other ones I shaved their heads.
And the older I got, the more the older I
got in like, the less I was like into playing
with toys, I was like, well, I might as well
just ruin these. I don't know what I was thinking.

(54:50):
So I cut all their hair off and then I
would paint them with nail polish. So I sort of
related to sit in that way. But it is like
he's just treating toys like a kid would treat it
is really creative with them and creates like mutants that
are toys are the best toys in the whole show.
I want baby Spider Guy and legs, and it does love.

(55:14):
It provide an opportunity for what I think is an
important lesson where it's like, I don't know, don't judge
things or people by how they look. Because they're like,
oh they're they look different from the norm, they must
be cannibals. And then which is a wild assumption to
begin with but yeah, it's like judging the other in

(55:36):
any way. But even then, like that that lesson, like
you almost get all the way there, But Sadie, you
were saying this earlier, like sids toys help fix Buzz
without being asked. They're very nice, even though they've been
treated badly by mostly Woody. Buzz hasn't been like outwardly
means thought they were cannibals. But they help him anyways.

(56:00):
And then what he's like, Oh, you're nice, can you
help us do this thing? And then they help do
the thing in the in the big horror scene where
you know, like Sid finds out the toys are real,
He's the only kid in the fucking world that knows that.
I Actually, my hot take here is that Sid is
the only one who's really deserving of knowing that the

(56:22):
toys are alive, because all through the movie, like there's
a there's a semi truck that almost runs over Woody
because he's so committed to playing the role of like
toys not being alive, he lies down in front of
the wheel. Is hat he even gets run over a
little bit, But he'll break that like toy code of
silence to teach Si a lesson he does like an
exorcist headspin. Yeah, Sid deserved that. That was cool. I

(56:46):
love that Sid has to go through life with the
sinister knowledge. But anyway, but like the toys help Woody
and Buzz who have been cruel and judgmental towards them,
and then instead of end of them getting some sort
of redemptive arc, instead what he just goes thanks guys

(57:06):
by and then they charge into the climax of the
movie and like it and they like hanging out there.
I hope so and being played with in an engaging
way all of those toys. But really, team said, I mean,
I don't think it's it's fault. I think it's like
Woody and Buzz in the way they treat these toys
who are different from them and then rely on them

(57:29):
to do a bunch of ship for them, and then
they're like, oh, thanks to you, and then just like DIP,
I guess the idea is that like they helped liberate
the toys from like Sid's will never hurt them again
because that he was afraid of his sister's little right,
another character that I thought didn't get enough or like

(57:49):
started it in a cool place and then was kind
of like poorly written into oblivion. Was Sid's little sister Hannah.
I really liked her when she first I forgot she
was in the movie, which never as well for the
impact that she would have. But like in the first thing,
she's she's like seen challenging Sid right away. She's like
get away, you know, like they're doing like a younger

(58:11):
sibling older sibling thing. And it seems like creeps me
out from the beginning. I like her. I mean it's
not saying I don't like that, like, but like Sid
is like terror like I mean, he terrorizes his younger sister.
He literally says that line when Hannah like runs off
to tell her mom that said did something. Yeah, where

(58:31):
it's like, don't believe her, don't believe she's lying. Damn nutshell. Uh,
But I liked that, Like, you know, Hannah was like
pushing back. She's the only person we see push back against,
said do Andy and said even know each other? We
don't know, but you know, Hannah pushes back. And then
I have a fight club theory about Andy and said,

(58:53):
oh damn, I think they're the same. I mean they
are literally the same character, the same mold, but then
we see like Hannah is then when we see her
again later. The only other thing we really see her
in is like when she like goes to like the
most stereotypical girl bedroom of all time, where it's like

(59:15):
it's pink, pink, pink. She's having a tea party with
heads with her two beheaded dogs and her sister. She
she starts out as like this kind of cool character
and then they kind of just throw her into I mean,
it's I would argue it's better than bo Peep, who
just like starts lame and remains that way. But like Hannah,

(59:40):
I feel like you're given this cool little nugget of like, oh,
she's like argumentative and she's like gonna funk with her brother.
There's versions of it where I can see her participating
in the plot and like helping William Buzz. She like
takes a liking to Buzz. She like turns him into
Mrs Nesbit like, but she's just kind of written out

(01:00:01):
instead of like there's like this whole third act that
takes place in her house, but she's only she's like
relegated to like a tea party scene. And I just
don't know, I just so so after the toys. It's
called like the wine the Frog scene because Woody orchestrates
this whole thing in the scene in which they would
have had Barbie rescue all of them, which I think
would have been cool. Instead, all the toys do this

(01:00:24):
like horror movie reenactment for Sid, so that he's now
terrified of his toys and wood He is like, there's
a snake in my boot. Don't ever torture your toys again,
and he runs screaming into the house, at which point
Hannah's waving her doll in front of him, and Sid
is horrified because now he knows the toys are alive
and coming to get him. Yeah, so she's got a
little agency there. She's got. She definitely does. I just

(01:00:46):
like wish that she had been used more, because again
it's like, as much as I like that character, you
can remove her from the entire movie and like, how
much actually changes not not. I think what makes a
little more sense for the movie is just too like
the core group of toys that we meet, introduce some

(01:01:06):
other female coded toys into the group and give them
just more of an active role in the story. Like
I mean, there's a lot of toys that could have
gone either way, like Rex didn't. I mean, I'm not
gonna say Wash should leave any movie, but Rex didn't
have to be male. Ham didn't have to be male, right, Really,
most of Andy's toys, like there could have been like

(01:01:28):
gender parody with Andy's toys and it wouldn't have changed anything.
So really the movies a critique on Andy's just dumb imagination.
I yeah, Andy is an unoriginal chod and but I
mean it's if you look at the Hannah character, where
you know, she's got a pink room and she has

(01:01:49):
dolls and they do tea parties, and there's nothing wrong
with being interested in feminine toys, but just that that
is such an egregious default for a young girl that
just is not really challenged or explored. And then you've
got Andy, who has all male toys. He does very
misguided act outs with them. There's a whole quick conversation

(01:02:11):
that we can have about just the toy industry and
how toys are you know, very specifically gendered and marketed,
and uh, you know how that ruins children basically, um,
But lots of studies haven't done on like the way
children play and the toys they play with and how
that affects how a child's brain develops. Um because these

(01:02:36):
all these things I'll have a very profound impact on children.
Play is a large part of what gets a child
to like understand the world that they're in and what
their role is in that developing. And yes, so they've
just found a bunch of stuff that playing with toys
can help develop skills and influences a child's future, like

(01:02:56):
what career they might go into. Right, So, researched by
the Institution for Engineering and Technology found the toys with
a STEM focus where three times more likely to be
targeted at boys than girls. I wonder if that has
anything to do with how women are underrepresented instead it's true.

(01:03:20):
I mean, well, and then the same thing with sports too.
I've just like, that's not something that is marketed to
girls when they're very young, and every kid is an idiot,
that's the law, and what is presented to them is
what they'll think, like, oh, that's what I'm able to do,
so let me do that. And then there's also so
many I mean, this isn't in this movie, but like

(01:03:41):
with the Mrs potato Head, there's so many versions of
toys originally made for boys that they'll just slap a
bow on and be like ever girls now or like
legos are one of the few things that are for everyone.
But even when legos were first marketed at girls, they
were like ink and pastel and they looked different because

(01:04:02):
they're like, well, girls won't pick up solid colors. Women
hate primary colors. They can't see them. Legos are invisible
to them. We have to fem it up like there.
And I do want the girl legos, however, because and
that is like such a gender like neutral concept that

(01:04:26):
they still managed to gender like through color and through marketing.
There's so much I mean, I had. I did a
brief stint as a toy reporter, which sounds like a lie,
but it is true because one must have many stupid jobs. Um.
And the time I was reporting at was when they

(01:04:47):
were releasing barbies with different body types, and there was
so much written at that time of the way that
children were reacting to them. And it is it like
the thing that I took away from research again and
then and then writing about it is kids form ideas
on how toys and then by extension, what the world

(01:05:09):
should look like. So much younger than you would think,
because there were barbies with different body types given to
a group of four year olds and already, like there
were kids who didn't mean any harm, but we're saying,
like this isn't right. Why would I want this? This
isn't what I want. And so it's just like the
not challenging anything is such an insidious thing to do

(01:05:32):
because your kid can be you know, like you can
do your best and your kid can still be skull
fucked by the time they're four years old, just based
on what is around and what is available to them,
which is always with some exceptions. Now and I hope
that you know, like kids that had barbies with different
body types before they were four years old will you know,

(01:05:55):
be less conditioned to feel that way. But but it
is like some something that hits with you so young
that like there needs to be priority to uh, like
representing a wider variety of of dolls of body types.
I'm talking about dolls specifically, but like making them less
gendered and less you know bullshit, um is like super

(01:06:19):
important from the second you are yikes. Well, because toys
are so often exaggeratedly gendered, like yeah, toys marketed to
boys are like army men, g I do like fucking monster,
like very hyper hyper masculine stuff. And then like toys

(01:06:42):
marketed to girls are like pretty pretty princess and easy
bag oven and like very the most exaggerated versions of
masculinity and femininity. And when that's what you're giving children
to play with who have like mushy play do brains
who like don't understand the world yet like playto toys

(01:07:03):
a gender neutral toy that you can lump, you can
make at home. My mom used to make anyone on
my stovetop all the time. I don't know what the
ingredients are. Eat it? You can? I have eaten it?
Uh yeah, I mean it is. It's like such an

(01:07:25):
important and I hope that, like in Toy Story four,
like a full twenty four years after their first movie
came out, that that will be something that is more included,
because like movies like this are so merchandizing based like
how many actual buzz light years have you and like
how many squeaky aliens have you seen? Like these movies

(01:07:46):
are literally designed to sell merchandise because capitalism. I had
Woody and buzz toys. It's a genius move. To make
a movie about toys and then you can sell those
toys like it's it's a very like normal thing to do.
But if you write, if you take priority to write
in characters that are more inclusive and less just like

(01:08:08):
this is a toy for boys, this is a toy
for girls. A k. We're not making toys of it
because that is how the toy industry works. Is like,
there's even with like the Avengers, it took nine million
years for them to make a black widow action figure
and and to include her in marketing. It's just the
same thing with the Star Wars. Whenever the new trilogy
started coming out, they didn't have Ray toys with all

(01:08:31):
the other ones, even though Ray is the main character.
Another thing is that UM toys across the whole gender
spectrum mostly seemed to be representing white people or they're
they're so like dolls, action figures, everything are mostly white,

(01:08:51):
and toy story reflects that. Yeah, sure does. Another way
in which franchise about toys could challenge in the toy
industry but instead just profits off of it. It's just
it is weird, how like, you know, not surprising, but
just how backwards the toy industry in particular still is.

(01:09:13):
And but but if you're you know, in a place
where you are helping to write a toy story movie,
you can include something that you know will become a
toy that kids can have. And that's like a cool
power to use, not like a fucking loser. Well guess
who was behind this movie? Um, because that might have

(01:09:34):
something to do with ye. Also, Um, so we've got
written by credits from Josh Weeden, Andrews Stanton, Joel Cohen,
Alex So I don't know a man though, um, and
then I don't know a man the almost the full
production list of every movie. Uh, and then story by

(01:09:56):
credits from John Lasseter, Pete Doctor and Joe Ramped. So
it's a lot of men. Um, Yeah I believe it
or not? Yeah, I mean, well this is this was
the first Pixar full movie and there if you're into
Pixar lord, which I'm not, thank god. Um, but I
I've I've I did my homework. There is like all

(01:10:19):
this before John Lasseter was canceled and they were still
allowed to let him wear his hideous shirts in public.
He told the same story a million times about how
he and I believe it was three other men who
were involved in the you know, the ground floor of Pixar,
came up with all these story ideas, all of which
became very famous Pixar movies. I think that went from

(01:10:40):
toy story all the way up to Wally, Like they
came up with thirteen. They just went to fucking brunch
and they planned out thirteen years worth of movies. And
it is extremely telling that that is the specific like
amount of Pixar history that was written by three or sorry,
three to four eight white guys, because in that entire

(01:11:03):
era of Pixar, that's all the movies are about. That's
literally like you don't get a lead female Pixar character
until two thousand twelve with Brave, Like that's the first time.
Um and up until then, like there are female characters,
but they're never the driving force of the movie until
after all those guys ran out of ideas. Um is

(01:11:27):
Coco the first Pixar movie that's led by a person
of color, Like it's just it takes I think that
that's true, Like it just takes ridiculously long for anyone,
And that is not like the standard that are the
people who get to write movies to be included in
this universe because they're not included like behind the scenes.

(01:11:51):
It is eleven pm on a school nice, so we
should wrap up here. Yeah. Does anyone else have any
final thoughts about the movie? They wanted to call Bugs
Life Bug Story? Oh, I think that would have worked okay,

(01:12:12):
and then like a Toys like works out Wally Life Story,
Monsters Story, Monsters University Story. Should we take some audience
questions comments before or anyone do we miss anything? Or
your here? We're gonna we want you to come up

(01:12:34):
to the mike so it can get on the recording.
So so come on, form a cue, come on down.
Oh that's perfect. Hi. What's your name? My name is Natalie. Hi.
My question is do we think that animation and as
an extension c G I sort of softens or like
makes misogyny more cute, sort of like makes it easier

(01:12:58):
for maybe children and like all of us to digest.
That's my question. I think that children's entertainment in general
makes misogyny cuter. I don't know if it's I mean,
I think it is probably easier to do when it's
an animated character, but I mean there's very little like
I wouldn't be like, well, live all live action children's

(01:13:21):
entertainment is intersectional, and like I think that you could
pull any episode of Drake and Josh and see some
cutie pie misogyny, and I think, yeah, there's just like
all children and teen entertainment really couch it, and just
like especially when it's like making characters that you like

(01:13:41):
dismissive of women and not including them in any way
the way that like what he does. But I think
a lot of live action characters too. Sure, I definitely
think that car making cartoon anything. I mean, especially if
you're talking like cartoon violence, that definitely makes it easier
to to go down than pushing a real wolf off
a real cliff. True about your question, thank you, thank you. Hi.

(01:14:11):
What's her name? Hi, Emily Hi. Um. With regards to
the moral framework of a toy society, Um, do you
think that they got their sort of treatment of women
like they treat bo peep from watching their human creators?
Are they born with they created by them, or is
there like some sort of in their toy society? Like well,

(01:14:39):
that's a great question. Well, I mean, if we're judging
off of if the toys are learning about gender roles
from Andy. That makes a lot of sense because maybe
we are like, oh, Wood, he's an adult man, but
we don't know that. So maybe Wood he has just
only seen his owner like treat women dismissively and damseled

(01:15:03):
and just has this very narrow conception of the world.
I don't know, but Andy is only that way because
of the toys that are marketed to him. So the
snake eating its own tail, I don't know. I like that,
like blew my mind. I was just wondering if it
was innate, because like I haven't seen the movie in

(01:15:23):
a while, but you know, when Buzzes first brought to them,
he's like a new toy. And I don't remember how
he acted around bo Peep, but it was he already
like he was kind of a clean slate towards everyone.
I mean, even based on that, Like, I don't know,
I think he doesn't respond to her any differently. In fact,

(01:15:44):
he does. He does his whole like flying around the
room saying and then Mr potato Head says like, oh,
I bet the dolls totally go for you, and Buzzes like,
where is fucking Zorg who I'm trying to kill? So
like he doesn't. I don't think he like noticed as women,
which is also a problem to not notice women. But

(01:16:04):
I mean, there's really not many women around to notice. There.
I guess I'm down for the nurture argument there. Yeah, damn,
all right, thank you, thank you guys. It's eleven eleven.
We'll make a wish you gotta. Hi. So there's some

(01:16:25):
really great and thought provoking questions. I don't have one
of those. So when you cut the hair off of
the barbies, were they more in charge? Yes? Oh good questions?
Did they take over? They did? Yeah, the loft of

(01:16:45):
rule is upheld yet again. Yes, that was not provoking.
That was yeah. That don't sell yourself short my mind. Hi. Hi.
It seems to me that both buzz and would He
their character arc focuses on them learning to deal with

(01:17:06):
the fact that they're losing something that they didn't earn.
So do you think it's fair to say that both
of them have two different sort of challenges of male entitlements? Oh?
I think so. I think that. I mean, well, basically,
wood He is the in cell and Buzzes the chad.
Oh my god. Yeah, finally in terms I can understand

(01:17:31):
in cell talk. Yes, I would. I mean Wood, he
is such an entitled character where when his like dominance
in this funked up society has challenged, he tries to
kill someone He's like Stalin, like he's scary, and then
buzz I mean, I don't know. I guess the Buzzes

(01:17:52):
Buzzes deal is that he is very threatened and like
his masculinity is challenged by that he is not the
one and only buzz light Year and that he is
a part like he's he's a part of something larger
than himself and that upsets him. Yeah, I mean the
Chad insult thing. Really does that? Does that? What do

(01:18:14):
you think, Caitlyn? Yeah? No, I agree the end? Damn,
thank you, thank you. I got you to agree with me. Wow.
Uh does this movie pass the back tell test gang? No? Not? Okay, Okay,
there's there's a moment. Yeah, there's a moment in Sid's

(01:18:37):
house whenever, um, Hannah, Sid's sister, and then Sid Sid's mother,
Mom we do not see on screen, right, and we're
in the constant battle of like, is Mom a character
name because it's sort of treated the same as the
way Dad is. We don't know. In this case, I'm
inclined to not cut them a break. But what is

(01:18:59):
the what is the exchange? So Hannah says, mom, have
you seen my sally Doll? The mom from off screen says,
what was that? Dear said, dear, pop Dart is ready,
and then Hannah says, never mind because she has just
found buzz ak Mrs nets Bit. Um. So I would say,

(01:19:22):
because we don't even see the mom on screen, and
that's like one of two lines she has, the other
one being popped heart related, I would I don't really
want to give that a pass, but it is it
is about a Sally Doll, and it's not about But
then Hannah says never mind because she sees a male toy,

(01:19:45):
so she decides as Mrs Nesbit that's true, So that
I mean, but buzz still identifies as male as far
as we can tell, even when he is dressed as
Mrs Nesbit. Yes, doesn't pass. A second one doesn't pass either,
but in the fourth one they put pants on her,
so problems so we'll see. Oh boy. Should we rate

(01:20:10):
the movie on a nipple scale nipples based on its
portrayal of women, It's like between a zero and a
half nipple. I think I'm gonna go with a half
just because the movie isn't outwardly hateful toward women, because
I feel like the movies that we give like a
zero too uh contempt contemptuous of women. This movie just

(01:20:36):
ignores and or erases women's existence. So that's actually okay.
I like that so far. So yeah, I'll give it.
I'll bump it up to a half nipple because of that.
But yeah, this movie, there was no reason why there
could not be more, you know, female coded toys. There

(01:21:00):
was no reason the different of the other female characters
who are introduced and exist in the story already couldn't
have a more significant narrative impact. The toys are all white, yeah,
as most toys are in real life, which is another
extremely fucked up thing. I'll give my half nipple. I

(01:21:20):
guess to Sid's mom, who's just trying her best with
what she's got, and she there is a fan theory
where she and Andy's dad alone. Yes, oh, I think
if that Sid might actually be the child of Andy's dad,
well that's why they couldn't afford a second child. Well. Also,

(01:21:44):
I mean, between Sid and Andy looking pretty much the same,
there's some shared DNA there. There's one woman who is
a producer on this movie. I'm forgetting her name. She
has a theory that both sit In and R John
Lasseter his his inner children. I don't I hate it.

(01:22:10):
I'm gonna go with a half nip as well. I don't.
It's a bummer, I because I do, Like, I mean,
I think this is like a classic case of a
movie that no one dislikes. Really, like everyone has a
soft spot for this movie. I still, I still really
love it. I'm going to see a new one. Yeah,
I'm gonna cry when instructed. I'm a I'm a fucking idiot.

(01:22:31):
I'll do what I'm told. But I mean, upon further,
I mean, I think that this movie is just very
thoroughly an unchallenging product of its time, where it's we're
presented with like an upper middle class white family that
challenges nothing, um and has contempt for anyone poorer than

(01:22:54):
them and thinks they're villains. Um. So you know, I
just like it's just it doesn't really challenge anything, but
but it I just think it's like kind of doofy
and dumb, Like I don't think it's out to really
get anyone, but it's just there. It's clear that no
one involved in the production, or there are very few

(01:23:14):
people involved in the production that had a different perspective,
or or you know, very simple things could have been
switched to make it a more inclusive and fun movie
to watch. So I'll give it a half nippy. I'm
gonna give it to Hannah because god damn it, I
think that there there was more for her to do.
Justice for Hannah. Also, there's a flash forward scene and

(01:23:37):
Toy Story three where Sid is like a very cheerful
garbage man. Make of that what you will. There's another
fan theory for that though. There so Sid is the
only one who knows that toys can talk, and this
haunts him into adulthood. But then he develops an altruistic

(01:24:00):
side that uh that wants to rescue toys from He
wants to save them from the trash and that's why
he's the trash man. What I think is that John
Lasseter hates poor people. Yeah, I'm going to a second
Both of these I'm giving a similar rating, and maybe
I'm at like a point seven apple WHOA, I don't know. Yeah,

(01:24:26):
it's just again, I don't think it's meant to be hurtful.
But so many times when people are excluded, you know,
no one's trying to be hurtful, they just have very
limited world views. Um, I'm gonna give it to Mrs Nest,
but very good an icon. Yes, I wish he had
a spin off with Rex. I think Rex is the

(01:24:47):
best character in the movie anyway. Uh, definitely the most
emotionally complex. He feels it so much. He feels sad
that he has guilt. He turns against Woody. Very relatable,
full of regret and guilt for for nothing. It really
is the most close analog for a woman's experience. There's

(01:25:07):
no reason that couldn't have been if we were going
to make a woman toy. I mean is constantly park
where all the dinosaurs are Fabale's Oh my god, can
I give you one more factor? Click to close the switch.
Josh Whedon saw Jurassic Park in the middle of making
Toy Story, and that's why Rex is there at all.

(01:25:30):
And I assume that's why Scud the dog like pops
his nose out from around a door. It's got to
be the raptors. It is a direct Drassic Park reference
and Toy Story two when they're riding through a toy
store and Rex is like coming up behind them in
the mirror of the side view mirror. It's it's wonderful. Um. Anyway, guys,
I'm bored of these. Yes, you know, Drassic Park is cool. Um.

(01:25:54):
I think that's our show. So thank you for coming.
Give it up for Sadie, Yes, give it up for
the Women in Comedy Festival, for the Rockwell, thanks for
coming up a good night bye. Okay, that was Toys

(01:26:19):
Story live in both Philadelphia and Boston. Wow magic. Uh.
So we want to thank Sadie for being our guest.
You can check out her band, Speedy Ortiz or her
solo work. She's on Twitter and Instagram at sad s
a D one three Get it um, and her incredible band,

(01:26:41):
Speedy or Tees is on tour right now. The next
couple of dates. Uh, if you happen to live in
any of these places, They'll be in Brooklyn, New York,
tonight June at Industry City June. They'll be at Logan
Square Arts Festival in Chicago June nine, Sleeping Village in Chicago,
July seven, Rebel in Toronto, and July eight, Warehouse Concert

(01:27:03):
Hall in St. Catherine's Canada. They've got more dates. You
can check out their website to find out more. What's
their website. You can go to Speedy Ortiz dot com
to find further tour dates. And thank you so much
to Sadie for being our guests. Indeed, hey, speaking of plugs,
we got more. Well, we just have you know ours

(01:27:25):
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(01:27:45):
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(01:28:05):
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(01:28:26):
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(01:28:47):
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