Zoolander with Kenice Mobley

The Bechdel Cast is so hot on this episode where Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Kenice Mobley discuss Zoolander (2001). Here is more information about the humanitarian crisis happening in the DRC - https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/21/a-guide-to-the-decades-long-conflict-in-dr-congo

Follow Kenice on Instagram at @kenicemobley and check out her website at kenicemobley.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdelcast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they
have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephy and Beast start changing
with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hey, Jamie, Hey, Caitlyn, the Bechdel Cast is so hot
right now?

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Really tell me more?

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well, it's I have nothing else to say, just that
it's really hot right now.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Okay, well, good, good good. We need to make a living,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, so true, so true. Anyway, Hello, and welcome to
the very hot Bechdel Cast right now.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
The sexiest Bechtel Cast yet.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Oh my gosh, so freaking sexy.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Unless oh, when Wilson enters the zoom and then we're
in trouble. But then we'll become friends. Oh my god. Oh,
Welcome to the Zulander episode of the Bechdel Cast. My
name is Jamie Loftus, my.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Name is Caitlyn Deronte. This is our show where we
examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel
test as a jumping off point. But Jamie, what is that?

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, well, well, and I'm like did zee. Lads, we'll
figure out. We'll figure it out. I have it in
my notes, but I watched it two days ago, and
literally my brain does not retain information for two days anymore. Okay.
The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by queer
cartoonist Alison Bechtel, often called the Bechdel Wallace Test. Why

(01:30):
because it was co created by Liz Wallace, so that
makes sense. Lots of uses for this test. The one
we use requires to pass, two characters with names of
a marginalized gender talking to each other about something other
than a man for two lines of dialogue or more.
Should be dialogue that moves the plot forward in some

(01:51):
way ideally, ideally, ideally, But if we like the movie honestly,
we'll be like, eh, shrey, kind of bezz.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
And if we hate the movie, even if it does pass,
we'll be like, it doesn't pass.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
That is true. There are movies that have like, actually
demonstrably passed that we're like, but let's be serious, but
spiritually no, it doesn't. So it's more of a vibe.
At this point, we've been doing the show for almost
a decade.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Truly, as you said, this is our Zoolander episode. We
have a six time guest. Yes, wow, okay.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Your past jacket status.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah yeah, we owe you a house or something.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Come on.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
She's a comedian. You've seen her on The Tonight Show,
Comedy Central, Netflix. She's gonna be doing her solo show
at the Black Women in Comedy Festival on February twenty seventh.
She also, in addition to me, has a master's degree
in film from Boston University. Yea, and you've heard her
on dozens of other episodes. It's Canise Mobley, Hello.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Welcome back.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
I'm so happy to be here. I'm just happy to
see your right and shining faces.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh my gosh, hey Canise, welcome to the Bechdel Cast
Center for Kids who can't podcast? Good?

Speaker 4 (03:17):
What is this a center for? Ed?

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Gosh?

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Which I say in real life too often.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
It's a very quotable movie. And tell us what your
your relationship with the movie is, Canise.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Okay, So I had not watched this movie in five years,
and I rewatched it to discuss with you, lovely ladies,
and to realize that big chunks of your personality came
from a weird movie from twenty five years ago. To
just have to accept that about yourself is hard. You

(03:51):
thought you were an individual creation, sprung a whole cloth
out of nothing, but no, you were just amalgamation of
other people's thoughts and that's okay.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
And that's okay. So this was a big movie of
your earlier life.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yes, absolutely, I watched this. So it came out in
two thousand and one. I definitely watched this throughout high school.
Definitely quoted it with my friends a lot because we
all watched it. We were not cool, but this movie
made us feel cool to one another.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Nice. I love that.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
What about you guys?

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, Jamie, how about you?

Speaker 1 (04:33):
I'd never seen this, can you believe it? I'd never
seen Zoolander? And I was approaching it with I don't know.
Ben Stiller has had such an interesting trajectory as a
person where he's he is I feel, I mean, I
don't know a lot about him personally, so hopefully there's
not something scary I don't know, but he is a

(04:55):
NEPO baby to root for. I think I had never
seen this. I was worried about it when I saw
the year it was released. And you're like, well, how
is this good to age? And the answer is certainly
not perfectly, but better than I thought. Yeah, there is
like an element of timelessness to this movie. It was
like saying more then I feel like that is such

(05:18):
a hard needle to thread in broad comedies like this,
where it's like this movie is saying something, but it's
not like bonking you over the head with it, which
is hard to do. I don't know, I was. I
was like, very, very very into this movie. I have
not seen this sequel, which I hear is very transphobic. Yeah,
I hear that the sequel is like is garbage, but

(05:41):
this is this is my entry and probably exit because
it sounds like this sequel's bad into the Zuelander expanded universe,
and I was into it. I like, Derek, I love himbos,
you know, like we just need to get the hit
if we truly get the hymbos on our side, if
we can get the hembos out to some protests, we're cooking.

(06:02):
And I feel like that is It actually made me
think about La Protests a lot, where it's like you
just got to get the himbos, you know, activated in
the right direction.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
It helps.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I volunteered with many Derek Szulanders in my day.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, I want.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I have been a bookish lady my whole life, but
I love a dumb jock hook and that has been
a fun part of my life for years. I'm pro that.
But they have a gasoline fight with their mouths open.
Their mouths are open. During that gasoline fight, he gets
strayed with water from somebody driving by, and then he

(06:40):
goes home. Notice he does not at any point wash
his face or take off his jacket that was dripping
with New York City street water, and then just lays
in his bed.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
I do like that this would be. There were certain
moments of this movie where I didn't see coming, such
as seeing a young Alexander Scars blow up. Was not
ready for that. I was like, whoa, wow, interesting. I mean, mekus,
I guess so. I was just like, I was like
squinting at the screen, like, hold on, there's no way,
but there is. Then he's and then he's dead two

(07:15):
minutes later. It's so wild. Yeah, I don't know. I mean,
there's just stuff about this movie that doesn't age well,
such as Andy Dick in general. But I was impressed
with this Vivie. I really enjoyed it. Caitlyn what's your
history of Zoolander.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
My history is similar to Canisi's in that I watched
this movie a lot in the early to mid two thousands.
The little cough that Derek Zulander does where he's just like,
I'll just do that sometimes in life. I liked it
because I think that, again, not all of the humor

(07:51):
holds up, certainly, but enough of it does that I'm like, Okay,
you're actually saying something here. It reminds me of Josie
and the puss Cats, another one of my favorite movies,
because it's about you know, conspiracies hidden in the entertainment
industry that exists to manipulate or exploit people. And so

(08:13):
they're very similar movies to me. So I think this
is just like a subgenre that I enjoy.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, that like came out during a very specific time
because their aesthetics are very similar to Yeah, like, they're
both super I mean, this is like the most boring
complaint to make about movies, but like, wow, these movies
are so colorful. Movies aren't colorful anymore.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
So I love this movie, you know, as a young adult.
But then I stopped watching it. I hadn't seen it
in probably like ten or more years, so there's a
pretty big gap, and I couldn't remember all the things
about it. Certainly there were jokes that I was like, oh, yes,
we'll talk about them. But overall, this movie does hold

(08:58):
up better than you might expect. So let's take a
quick break and then we'll come back and do the recap. Yeah,
and we're back and here's the recap. Oh right, I

(09:20):
forgot Zuelander.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
There's also the Donald Trump caveo jumps that as well.
He did not love to see it. I can't believe
I've brought up. I mean, to me, personally, Donald Trump
and Andy Dick are comparably evil. Andy Dick just has
less power. But yeah, there are there are some of
history's greatest monsters that make cameo appearances in this movie. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
I was just like, genuinely, I was enjoying it so much.
And then it was like like when Trump showed up,
I was like, no, not in Oh no, he's in
the past too. He exists everywhere.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
We were talking about this recently where it's like if
Donald Trump makes so many cameos during of this ten
year period. But also, Kaitlyn, when you're talking about Gremlins two,
and You're like, so many villains over like a period
of forty years in movies are clearly mapped on him too.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, iff in Back to the Future two is very
clearly mapped onto Donald Trump. He does a cameo in
Home Alone two famously. Yeah, he has a cameo in
Little Rascals. Oh, if anyone remembers that.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
I do.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I do, remember that he's just in movies and now
he's our fascist American president and you hate to see it.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Cameo is awesome though, and holds up amazingly well, Billy Zayne.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
I yes, Yeah, However, many nipples I end up giving
a spoiler alert, they're all going to Billy's he slays this.
This also starts a pattern in his career of him
make He's very open to making cameos as himself, which
understandably many actors aren't. But Billy's aid, you know, he's
one of us. He's got like Billy's saying, and I can,

(11:02):
I can say insider Hollywood info. Billy's aye sits with
the crew. He's not a diva. He's not a diva.
He's nice.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
What's he been doing?

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Oh, he's been well, he's playing.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh who is he?

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Who is he playing? In an upcoming movie? He's in
a biopic?

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Soon is he Marlon Brando in a movie?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think he might be playing Marlon Brando. I really
think that the zannaissance is going to come upon us
because we like he's very, very talented. I think he
got so typecast after Titanic in a way that was
like hard to bounce back from. But he's a great
comic actor. He's a great dramatic actor. The guy can
read the room.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
I just I want his features are striking, Like I
know that's here to say, especially in a movie about
male models. But of the people in this movie, I'm like,
damn Billy zaying turn it down.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
His resting face is just magnum. He has magnum.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
He ah man, I just I just love that that
damn Billy's aim. What a He has such riz And
it's it's not fair because they I think they like
hot him down in Titanic because he has to be
next to young Leo. They put on like the weird
eye makeup that is like Vaudeville villain coated or whatever,
and like a weird.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Hair flip that. I'm like, is that his actual hair?
Is that? Because it looks like a wig on top? Like,
it's just I don't like it. You guys have the
Titanic experts.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
But thank you.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
But when they let him go bald Moude, You're like,
this is this is a beautiful man. I mean, yes,
he's just yeah, he's going to play Caitlin. I think
you're right, Yes he's playing. This year, he's playing Marlon
Brando in Waltzing with Brando alongside John Heater whoa aka Napoleon,

(12:50):
and Richard Dreyfus. I don't know, no accounting for it.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
I thought Richard Dreyfus was dead.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
This also comes as a surprise to me.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
No apparent.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
He's he's seventy seven. He's alive and well in the
upcoming Marlon Brando Billy's Aane biopic.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Wow, look at god, this is just wild fascinating. Anyway,
Here's what happens in the movie Zoolander. All right, all right, okay.
We open on a news story about the new Prime
Minister of Malaysia promising to raise the minimum wage and
to end child labor once and for all. Watching this

(13:28):
news story is a group of fashion industry moguls who
rely on exploited child labor in sweatshops in countries like
Malaysia to make a profit, and so they want a
fashion designer named jakobiim Mugatu played by Will Ferrell, to
find someone to kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia when

(13:50):
he visits New York City in two weeks, which coincides
with Fashion Week.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
This is the perfect use of Will Ferrell.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
I feel, yes, I agree perfectly civil Ferreal, but I
also love the idea that, like everyone agrees child labor
is bad because we're not there anymore, and we may
people on the Republican side arguing that kids deserve the
right to work.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, Bill's character.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, so genuinely to watch this, it's like, oh no,
some of the people who saw this were like, haha, yes,
we should give children jobs.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Like, yeah, I have a whole chalan did the research
feel that I'm gonna go into I'm gonna talk about
the DRC. It's bear with me for that, but.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
No, it's I mean, but that's like covertly what this
movie is trying to get you to think about too.
It's really I I this is gonna come up an
annoying amount of times because I watched Network for the
first time over the weekend. I don't know why, but
it was like my it was just my time. I
just felt like it.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
I mean, you're mad as hell and you're not gonna
take it anymore.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean, I'm probably gonna choose it for the matrim
for my read because what a movie. It's so good.
But I feel like it's like starting a weirdly similar
discussion to what you're just saying Kenese of like everyone
behind closed doors is like, well, yeah, obviously this is horrible,
but should we do it? And like it is weirdly
like gratifying to see that behind closed doors, no matter

(15:19):
how gaslight you are as a normal person, they know
it's bad. They just are trying to decide if it's
advantageous to care or not.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Right, So, anyway, this is their plan. They need an
assassin to kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia, and the
ideal candidate to do this would be a shallow, empty
headed dim wit. Cut to Derek Zoolander played by Ben Stiller,
a shallow, empty headed, dim witted male model who is

(15:52):
being interviewed by an investigatory journalist Matilda Jeffries played by
Christine Taylor, a Ben Stiller's real life his wife.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah and didn't know, didn't know?

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Oh really Yeah, yeah, they've been married for a while. Yeah.
Derek tells her that he is known for his signature look,
Blue Steel, though he's working on another look called Magnum,
though it's not yet perfected. It's not ready yet. Then
it's the night of the VH one Fashion Awards. Derek

(16:28):
Zulander is expecting to win Male Model of the Year
for the fourth year in a row. Also, there is
Derek's rival, an up and coming male model named Hansel
played by Owen Wilson, who is so hot right now.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
I say that all the time that so and so
is so hot right now, and I didn't think about
it again until I watched this. I'm sorry, Okay, I.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Really I feel like, wait, what is the the Bill
Hayter character Steffan. It's like Stefan exists to me in
the Zuelander Expanded universe, But that's Zuelander.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
We would not have Steffan think so yeah, acur it.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
So, the Male Model of the Year award goes to Hansel,
who is so hot right now. But Derek just assumes
that he won, so he goes on stage to accept
the award. He makes a fool of himself, and Mugatu realizes, Oh,
he's the guy we need to carry out this assassination.
So Mugatu approaches Derek's manager, agent Maury Balstein played by

(17:26):
Jerry Stiller aka Ben Stiller's real life his father. Meanwhile,
Derek is on stage. He's humiliated. He's starting to think
that maybe there's more to life than being really really
ridiculously good looking.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
I love when a him vo. It's just so charming.
When a Himvo's like, is there much more than this
provincial life? And you're like, King, yes, yes there is,
follow me yes.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
But his three male model roommates Rufus, Brent and Meekus.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Every character name in this movie is per so good.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
They aren't really listening. They're more focused on going out
for orange mocha frappuccinos. But then the three roommates die
in a gas station accident slash explosion.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Greek gasoline fight accident.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I feel like it's like for this day. I was like, okay,
I'm just it's satire. I don't know, I don't know
these guys, I wonder I'd actually be really curious, like
what models think of this movie. I feel like my
my feeling is they probably embraced it, but I'm curious.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Well you do you know.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
You would know models? Kyler.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I Okay, this is the most la thing I've ever
done or said. But my trainer is a model slash actor,
slash trainer, and I told him we were covering this
movie and he's like, I love the movie, Zulander.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yes, okay, okay, good, this makes you feel better about it?

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yes, I mean I just tried to put myself in
the mindspace of like, if someone made a movie presenting
stand up comics as brand dead, I would have no
issue with it, because like there's some truth to that,
you know.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
I prefer them do that than what they do, which
is like, hey, I get up there and I was
drunk and I tried to stand up once and I'm
the best in the world, and then write five seasons
of a TV show about it. Whatever. But I just
I think the depictions are not funny.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
So yes, this parity better.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah. Oh and I wanted to say, I know I've
mentioned this before, but okay, so they're going at the
car wash.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
You do not like this scene.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
It bothers me so much. They're using the like the
wiper stuff, like the hey wipe off your windshield and
they start flinging that at each other's bodies. Gross with
their mouths open you And then how cheap is gas
that They're like, we're gonna fill out this car. We're
also gonna spray gasoline all over the place.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Two thousand and one it was like nine eleven dollar fifty.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yeah, oh my god, sorry, it just and your mouth
is open old.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Time, like the taste what I'm getting? What I guess
I'm trying to put myself in two thousand and one brain.
And I feel like, even though like the whole like
gender swapping stuff is pretty dated a concept at this point,
I feel like it had to have been like pretty
subversive at the time to present hot men as vapid

(20:33):
in a way that we usually see hot women presented. Yes,
I don't know, true, but I was watching Shrek in
two thousand and one, so I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Never forget Okay. So there's this gas station explosion and
at the funeral, while Derek is giving his you googly,
Derek announces that he's retiring from male modeling. He wants
to do more meaningful work than it helps people, maybe
even open up the Derek Zulander Center for kids who

(21:04):
can't read good. His agent Morey tells him he can't
retire because Mugatu, who has never hired Derek before, finally
wants him for his new campaign, but Derek refuses and
goes back home to coal mining country, New Jersey, where

(21:25):
his family lives. His dad played by John Voyd, and
two brothers played by Vince Vaughan and Judah Friedlander, who
I don't think to say any lines of dialogue really.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I think Vince Vaughn maybe speaks once. Yeah, Judah Friedlander
is a glorified extra.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
I did not know that was Judah Friedlander.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
That's Judah.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
That's what he looks like. And the hair out the sides, that's.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
I like that they all have the same resting face.
So much of this movie is so funny to me.
I just so good.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Anyway. They're ashamed of Derek and his job because he's
not living up to their rigid gender expectations of being
hyper masculine, so eventually Derek returns to the city to
accept Mugatu's offer, which includes a miniature prototype of the
Derek Zulander Center for Kids who can't read good. And

(22:23):
this is when Derek says, what is this a center
for ants? It'll have to be at least three times
bigger than this. It's funny, it's funny. I can't help it.
It's funny, so funny. Meanwhile, Matilda Jeffreyes, the journalist, is
trying to talk to Mugatu about his exploitation of child

(22:44):
labor in Malaysia, but she can't get access to Mugatu.
Then she receives an anonymous phone call from a mysterious
person telling her to keep digging and to go to
Peer twelve.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
And you're like, surely this isn't David Dick.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Surely not. Then Mugatu shows Derek his designs for the
fashion week show, a campaign called dere Leaked, which we'll
talk about. There's interesting satire going on here. Mugatu and
his minion, Katinka played by Mila Jovovich, start getting Derek

(23:22):
ready for the show.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Mila Jeviovich is giving very Parker posey and Josie the
Pussycat's going off of your comparison I would say so.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
I think she's so funny in this, and she got
trapped in this weird vampire killie business for like twenty years.
I think maybe she's still trapped there. Then I don't
think they let her out of the resident evil box. Oh,
it's clear that she's like very funny here.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Well, and she has like I feel like, I think
like earlier in her career she was doing like really
weird a collect I mean, like she's great in the
Fifth Element, even though that movie does not give her
much to do, but she's like good at being weird
and silly and yeah, free her, free her.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yes. So anyway, Katinka takes Derek to a quote unquote
day spa, which is actually just a brainwashing facility, and
they start brainwashing Derek to kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia.
When the song Relax comes on, that's the trigger that
will get him to like go into a homicidal rage. Basically,

(24:28):
Matilda shows up to Peer twelve, which turns out to
be the location of this quote unquote spa, but Katinka
immediately throws Matilda out in comments on her outfit, saying
it's from kmart.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Very two thousand and one. Insults.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
We even had cats anymore?

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, it's like, do kids even know what kmarts are
these days?

Speaker 3 (24:48):
I think there might be one left.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
There's like a huskover kmart in my hometown. It's very sad.
It's just like gets just a big, scary, haunted liminal space.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Anyway, we cut to Derek waking up in his bed
and he thinks this whole thing was a dream. But
Matilda shows up at his door and she tells him
that he's been missing for a week and that the
dere leaked show is tomorrow night. Then she discovers that
several male models who have worked with Mugatu in the

(25:21):
past have died in freak accidents, and that Mugatu's minion, Katinka,
is in all of the photographs of the crime scenes.
So she realizes that Derek is in danger and she
heads to the pre show party that Derek is at
to warn him. At the party where Billy Zane is,

(25:44):
he's there. He's playing himself. He's friends with Derek Zulander.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
He's an ally to Derek.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
He really is. Yes, Hansel shows up and he and
Derek are still beefing, so they decide to settle this
on the runway with a walk off with a David
Bowie cameo. He's like the referee. Sure. Derek is humiliated
by Hansel once again when Hansel wins the walk off

(26:10):
by taking his underwear off without removing his pants, and
we're like exactly. Then Matilda approaches Derek to be like, hey,
there's a male modeling conspiracy and you're in danger. Then
they head to a cemetery after Matilda receives another call

(26:31):
from that mystery person, who turns out to be former
hand model JP Pruett played by David d'ucuffney.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Just like poetry, poetry is so great.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
It's amazing. He tells them that the fashion industry has
been behind every major political assassination for the past two
hundred years, and behind every hit was a male model
who is then killed to cover everything up. And JP
Pruett tells them that they can find evidence for all

(27:04):
of this on Maury Balstein's computer because he's in on
it too. Suddenly they are attacked by Mugatu's minions, so
Derek and Matilda escape and they need to find somewhere
safe for Derek to hide, and they realize the last
place that anyone would look for him would be Hansel's house.
So they show up at Hansel's. Derek and Hansel air

(27:27):
their grievances and admit that they're actually intimidated by each
other and now they're friends, and Hansel welcomes them to
his home. Then there's a scene where Matilda confides in
them about why she doesn't like models. We'll talk about
this later because there's a lot to unpack here. Yeah,
but this culminates in Derek, Hansel, Matilda plus some other

(27:53):
people having group sex. I think they're all drinking ayahuasca
or something and they're just getting freaky and horny with
the each other, and Derek and Matilda in particular are
really vibing.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, Hans's kind of along for the ride, right.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
He's watching Slash also participating.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
The next day is the big dere leaked show when
Derek is going to be forced to assassinate the Prime
Minister of Malaysia, so they have to figure out how
they're going to stop this from happening. Hansel and Derek
disguise themselves as people of different races.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yes, okay, yeah, there's my like, my heart wilted at
the sight of this because the movie was doing so
well generally, and then this happens, and you're like, you've
got to be fucking kidding me.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
One of those guys, the black guy is a comedian,
Godfrey still around Godfrey. Yeah, Bill looks very much the
same man. He has not aged. He looks great, especially yeah,
twenty five years later. But Dan, it's hard to see
him there, and you're like, ah, it's not fair to him. No,

(29:05):
I don't love this implication. I don't love it, I know.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
And then you remember, you know Tropic Thunder, and you're like, oh,
wait a minute, ben Stiller is.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Kind of Ben Stiller's thing.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
It's kind of a thing.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Weird, weirdo, very weird.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
So, yeah, they are now in disguises as people of
different races, at the very least they cast different actors. Yes,
but then later you see ben Stiller and Owen Wilson
partially in exact black and brown face, and then so, yes,
it is horrible, doesn't Yeah, it doesn't work very bad anyway.

(29:43):
They are able to get inside Maury's office, but they
don't know how to use computers. There's this whole two
thousand and one A Space Odyssey reference where they're like
kind of banging on one of those huge desktops, yeah,
from two thousand and one. And before they figure out
how to access the evidence, Derek has to leave to

(30:05):
get to his show. Meanwhile, Matilda figures out that the
trigger is the song relax after learning that Mugatu used
to be in was it the band Frankie goes to
Hollywood that's who wrote relaxed. So anyway, they booted him out.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
It was like slightly too dated for me. I'm like,
I'm sure this was funny in two thousand and one,
but hard to say right.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Anyway, he was in a band, but he got booted
out before they recorded their hit song Relax, and so
he's very bitter toward them. He also invented the piano
key necktie and that's what launched his fashion career. Now
that's funny and that's comedy. Yes, anyway, so Matilda figures

(30:50):
out that that's like the trigger song. Then the Dare
Leaked show starts. The Prime Minister of Malaysia is there
as Mugatu's special guest Derek comes on stage. The DJ
starts playing the song Relax the.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Row and unrecognizable justin the row.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, I had no idea until looking at Wikipedia earlier today.
So the song starts playing. Derek is about to attack
the Prime Minister, but then Hansel swoops in. There's a
whole fight scene where Hansel battles DJ justin throu They
keep switching the music back and forth, and then eventually

(31:33):
they expose Mugatu and the whole conspiracy to brainwash Derek
into assassinating the Malaysian Prime Minister. Maury Balstein confirms this
is all true, and Mugatu is like, fine, if you're
not gonna kill the Prime Minister, I'll do it myself,
and he's about to kill him, but then Derek saves

(31:53):
the Prime Minister with his new look Magnum, which blows
everyone away, and everyone's so proud of him, even Derek's
father back in New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Because at the end of the day, what are movies
about fathers?

Speaker 3 (32:10):
And yes, okay. So then we cut to a little later.
The Derek Zulander Center for kids who can't read good
and want to learn to do other stuff good too,
has opened. His friends are teachers there. Derek and Matilda
have gotten together and they have a kid, Derek Junior,

(32:30):
who is an aspiring male model because he does a
little look. And that's pretty much the end of the movie.
So let's take another quick break and we'll come back
to discuss, and.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
We're back.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Where to begin?

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Where to begin?

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
I guess we could start with the few women in
this movie where I don't know, I mean, what if
we think? I thought the Milijevovich character was really fun,
probably a little underused, like could have had because it's
just fresh because she's giving such a fun performance, But
the movie really only has interested in her at like

(33:23):
plot useful times, versus like building out much for her
to do, like we don't really know anything about her
like outside of that. And then unfortunately Christine Taylor, it's
not her fault, but I just like, I feel like
this exact character exists in a lot of movies around
this era. Unfortunately, I am thinking of The Master of
Disguise where you're like, uh huh listen, which for some

(33:47):
reason is a movie I have seen many times. In
spite of not saying Zulander doesn't make sense, but I'm
going to try to like boil down. It's like just
she's too normal and everyone else is a cartoon character
in this movie except her and she like and I
think that that's the joke, But I also don't think
it's fair to the actor, and it's not a particularly

(34:08):
memorable character, and I don't like it.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
There are so many movies of this time, and I thought,
this is what you're gonna say, where a woman there
is a journalist to cover the thing the man is doing,
and of course she will end up sleeping with one
of the people in the movie. Like that happened over
and over again, even up until like train Wreck or

(34:31):
about Tag called Tag.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Where it was where Jerremy Renner broke his arms.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
I'm pretty shirt as a Renner historian, I'm pretty I
like him. I hate he sucks. I hate him like
he sucks.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
And it was only confirmed like he did some things
that were annoying or something. But I was like, no,
I'm only celebrating this because deep down I didn't like
that guy. But yes, Tag where Jeremy Renner broke is up.
But in that they write a woman just to be
a journalist air quotes, to follow these guys around and
then eventually sleep with one of them.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
And you're totally right. I think that that happens a
lot across rom coms as well, where like it's a
comedies and realm comms often it's like, okay, well, feminism happens,
So we can't just like have a woman not have
a job, But how can we create a character that
is just disproportionately interested in what this guy is up to?
I think that that's yeah, that's I don't think we've

(35:31):
ever like really honed in on that on this show. Yeah,
that's totally true.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Mm hmm. And to your point, Jamie, it means that
she's and I get it, like in a comedy movie
there's often like the straight straight man to emphasize the
comedic hijinks.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
But if you only have two women in the movie.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Like right, where it's like, okay, and there are moments
where she's like reacting to something absurd where like she
kind of gets the laugh or like her reaction is
like oh ha ha, I agree with her because they
did something ridiculous. But even so, like it means that
she isn't given the opportunity to show like comedic chops

(36:10):
quite the same way as all of the other characters
who are predominantly men.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, it's maybe like an obvious observation. But like, in
this movie that's written by three men that I do
think has some stuff to say about masculinity. But I
was not shocked that there's only two women characters. One
is an underutilized comedic character and the other is a pretty,
I think dully written love interest.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
For sure, there's a there's another. It's not a character,
and it's not a cameo because it's not a famous person.
They made someone look the worst they've ever looked, and
they played the messuse and I just that stuck out
to me.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
I was like, that's Sandy Dick.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
A Sandy Dick.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
That's Andy Dick. Yeahah, he's I was like, wait, they
have three women on screen at the same time. That's wild.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, that's Andy Dick.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
No, they don't they never mind, never mind, I take
it back.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
I will take every opportunity to just declare Andy Dick
one of the world's worst people. I hate that motherfucker.
And it's personal, okay, but it is a very tired
joke where it's either regardless of the gender of the actor,
sometimes it is a man, sometimes it's a woman, but

(37:24):
it's someone in so much makeup and prosthetics, and it's
the character is almost always a woman, where it's like, look,
how hideous this old hag is, and isn't that comedy
yet the drag being used, where drag is the punchline
as a post like yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
So yeah, not great when it comes to the characters
who are women.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Unfortunately, I don't really have much to say about those
characters outside of that because we're not really given that much.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
There's a couple of times when Zulander talks to the
investigatory journalist, which I thought investigatory was a word for
a long time, and it's not right.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
It is an investigative journalist.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
Yeah, investigative journalist. But I just say it really quickly
because I'm always like, shit, I'm doing it wrong.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
But if someone said that to me, I would be like, yeah,
that sounds like a word.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
Sure, yeah yeah. But when Balls talks to her when
she's asking questions, he's like, ah, you'd look pretty good
if you had a push up raw And we're supposed
to like this guy. I was like, this guy who
smacks his secretary's button is like talking about his penis
all the time. I was like, I hate this person, right,
but so she's like okay, and she doesn't say anything then,
and then when she's trying to tell him you've been

(38:37):
missing for a week, he's like, hey, you have patterned
dryness around your scalp because you're pulling your hair too tight,
may I? And then he pulls her hair out of
a ponytail and stuff, and he's like, wow, you look better,
and she's like smiling, like oh thanks, like do this better?
Don't die? And I'm like, why would she stand for
any of this? Why?

Speaker 3 (38:57):
I don't know. There's there's the scene where she tells
them her backstory, so okay. Earlier in the movie, when
Derek is talking to his male model friends about wanting
to help people, and they're like, models do help people.
We make people feel good about themselves and teach them

(39:18):
how to wear their hair in interesting ways. The irony
being that the entire beauty industry is predicated on making
people feel bad about themselves so that they can capitalize
on people's insecurities and sell them shit and all of that.
That might be an oversimplification, but it's largely that either way.

(39:39):
We find out the reason that Matilda does not like
models when she shares her backstory because she describes that
when she was a kid, she was bullied for being fat,
and she felt all this pressure to live up to
these impossible Western beauty standards that were perpetuated by the
models she saw in magazines, and from that she'd developed

(40:00):
and eating disorder. And she shares this with these two
guys who like completely trivialize her experience. She is clearly
frustrated that they're not taking her seriously, But then the
scene quickly moves on to her sex life.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Which is like, so, I mean again, clearly a story
written by three men, because it's like again, because it's like,
that could be an interesting conversation, but the movie just
tells you they're like, but we don't this interesting thing
we said. We actually don't care that we said it.
It's like, well, then why did you say it?

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Then?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Why did you say it?

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Right?

Speaker 3 (40:38):
At the very least, Derek does apologize to her a
few scenes later. It is while he's in blackface, so
it's just like, well.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, I also noted that. I was like, I'm gonna
say that, it does not count.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
It does not count. Right, There's a conversation to be
had about this, and the movie almost starts to have
that conversation, but and is like never mind.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Which is interesting because it's like, again, that would totally
fit into other points the movie is trying to make about,
like what is the point of the beauty industry? Like
is there any positive to it? Where is the source
of like evil and dysfunction within it? Continuing on that
line of thought would be like very well placed. But

(41:24):
again they're just like nah, right, well, so some.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Of the characters who are doing and saying problematic things
in the movie, is a part of the satire that's
criticizing the fashion industry and like showing how toxic of
an environment this could be. I think the whole dere
Leaked campaign is like, look at how the fashion industry

(41:49):
we got.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
To in general? Yes, everything he does?

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah, everything about how like you know, using homelessness as
an aesthetic for a fashion show, Right, that's satire higher.
I'm not saying it's handled perfectly, but at least that's clear.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
But it's not like it's not endorsing that obviously, ye.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Right, where we're right. There are other moments where a
character makes fat shaming remarks, such as when Mugatu tells
a model to lose weight immediately that are satirical representations
of the unrealistic beauty and body standards within modeling and
within the fashion industry. Again not handled the most effectively

(42:27):
in this movie.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
But also, yeah, is there anyone in this movie that
isn't traditionally attractive? Right?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
I mean that was something that I I not that
I noticed and all, like again just going back to
like I don't know, I feel like part of why
the Christine Taylor character, it's like, well, but she's not
fat anymore, and that is I feel like something we see, like,
especially during this era of movies, when fatness is even

(42:56):
referenced in a story, it's in the past tense, as
if if it were in the present tense, they would
not be in the movie, which in this movie appears
to be true. I don't know, like it's just and
like going back to that talking point again, like from
that character Matilda, I'm just gonna keep calling her Christie Taylor.

(43:16):
But that is like such a clear opportunity for satire.
I don't know why they just gave it up. I
at least, I guess for not for nothing, Like I'm
glad that at least the body shaving aspects were explicitly
referenced by a character, but yeah, it just doesn't go anywhere.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah. Yeah, so you have examples of again characters saying
problematic things as part of the satire. But then you
also just have like it was two thousand and one,
and this is what we thought was comedy back then,
because you have things like there are a few instances
of ableists language and slurs being thrown around. There are

(43:59):
transphoe remarks which apparently get worse as the series goes on,
which horrifying. Again, Yeah, I can't speak to it, but
there's you know, sexual assault in the workplace being played
as a joke. You mentioned that canis there are examples
of little people or people of color where them simply

(44:22):
being on screen is the punchline of a joke, like
when they show up in the group sex scene. There
is the black and brown face that we discussed.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Which Ben Stiller will be a big proponent of well
into this decade. Yes, Traffic Thunder was what like two
thousand and seven or something.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Something around then. Yeah, yes, so there are jokes that
age horribly and are not there as any part of
like satirical social commentary. It's just it was two thousand
and one. But then there's other moments where the movie
is like commenting on expectations of masculinity, like when Derek

(45:05):
returns to coal mining New Jersey and his brothers and
especially his dad are ashamed of Derek and his job because,
you know, being a male model doesn't live up to
their rigid expectations of masculinity, and they want him to
work on quote unquote manly job like working in a

(45:29):
coal mine, and.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
It's like in the goofiest way possible, which is great,
Like I don't know all the family jokes like John
Voight is being John Voight is the worst part of it.
But outside of that, like basically no notes at the
end where there's like that very offhand resolution where he's
like watching like they in the New Jersey coal mine bars,

(45:50):
they would watch so great, that's my son.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Where are they watching this? I love it?

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I love it. They're like, well, yeah, it's kind of
the big a fashion.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yeah, it's like on all of the TVs. It's over
the sports. Forget sports. It's the got to Daryl Leek's campaign.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Love it, love its comedy.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
You don't even do that for the Victoria's Secret Show.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
You Okay, yeah, you have to feel like an Amazon
Prime subscriber or some shit. Now, Like no wo.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
I love the part where Derek's like, oh I ever
wanted was to make you proud pop and John Voyd
is like, with what your male modeling? Prancing around with
your wiener hanging out? I think the lord that your
mother never lived to see her son as a mermaid,
and then Derek goes merman, yes, man, that is comedy anyway,

(46:48):
again not handled super thoughtfully in the movie. It is
the beginning of a conversation.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, but it's like that. What I felt like is like, well,
I think that that's the best this movie could do
on that subject. While like maintaining the tone of the movie,
I wasn't mad about it fair.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
The other thing that I was like pleasantly surprised by
upon this rewatch was the scene where Derek and Hansel
talk through why they've been beefing, and they admit to
feeling threatened by each other because Derek's like, yeah, I'm
getting older and my career is winding down and you're
young and your career is just getting started, and Hansel's like, well,

(47:27):
they're like.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
The same age.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
I think they're like years apart.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
But yes, yeah, it's very funny. But yeah, Hansel is like, well,
I'm intimidated by you because you're such a legend and
it's difficult to live in your shadow. And they hug
it out and they become friends. But it's just like
so rare to see in a movie adult men talk
through their issues and talk about their feelings, especially like

(47:51):
feelings of vulnerability, and they're admitting to being intimidated by
each other by another man. Like I was just like, wow,
you don't see this, especially in two thousand and one.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
I really yeah, I'm so I wish I could. Well,
I don't wish I could talk to a man in
two thousand and one. But I'm curious how that was
read at the time because I also really liked that. Yeah,
it's like they're The movie is like, oh, they're you know,
these guys are unmasculine by traditional standards, and they're the

(48:23):
only men in the room who can have an open
discussion about their feelings and openly connect with each other.
I'm curious how that was read at the time. I wonder, Okay,
this is my two thousand and one question. It's like,
was that a joke at the time that it's like
only unmasculine men could possibly have this conversation. I don't

(48:44):
think that the movie is like criticizing them, because we
love these characters. They're the best. But I'm I don't know,
I don't know. I don't know either, sound off in
the chat everybody nice.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
I do want to use this almost like as a
role player exercise for like friend dude, dude friend therapy,
where it's like, Okay, so what we're gonna do is
you're gonna be do Lander, You're gonna be a Hansel,
and you're gonna start with the lines that are in
the movie, and then slowly you're gonna improvise and incorporate

(49:17):
your own shit, and then it just did did did
did did it? Boom, We've healed male friendship. I think
it's possible.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
We can get there. We can get there, We can
get there.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
It takes a lot of Yes, probably gonna be a
bunch of improv dudes at first, and that's fine, but yeah,
like that's where it's gotta start. Then that's where it's
gotta start.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, corneus meant to the front. Sorry to improvise us there,
but it's true. Yeah, I mean I love that their
friendship resolves. I wasn't sure which way it was going
to go, and it just makes sense. And then okay,
I have another two thousand and one can we put
ourselves back there moment, which is that I mean, this

(49:59):
movie is mysteriously absent of queer people in an industry
where there are many queer people working in high places,
which feels very two thousand and one, So that is
I think bizarre. But also I did like that for Derek,
like he is ostensibly straight as far as we know,

(50:21):
and that his vulnerability didn't threaten that in any way,
which I do think is a good thing. So I'm
having two things be true there. It feels weird to
completely erase queer people from the fashion industry, and also
I did like the portrayal of a straight guy that
could have male friends and be emotionally vulnerable without that

(50:44):
threatening his straightness.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
For sure. This is also an era where queer people
were basically absent from cinema in general.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
I mean, I honestly thought that there would be heavier
coating in two thousand and one.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
I was like, I don't know, I mean, I wonder
if Mugatu is supposed to be queer coded. His assistant
is his assistant Todd for sure, yes, played by Nathan
Lee Graham.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
I'm like, I've seen him be a gay character and
a lot of things. I think maybe i've now that
i'm thinking about it, I'm like, I've probably just projected
him into things.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Oh no, m yeah, I don't know much about Nathan
Lee Graham's personal life, but the character that he's playing
Todd certainly queer coded, Mugatu maybe arguably also queer coded.
Hard to I would say, what were exactly right?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
And like Will Ferrell is so weird that it's like
you just really never know what he's going for. And
I mean that as a compliment because I think that
like a lazier, less creative comic actor would have just
leaned heavy on queer coding. But like Will Ferrell is,
he's just doing a lot, Like I don't who knows,
who knows what Mugatu's interior life is.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
He's just menacing, not menacing.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
We just missing right, not really sure what's going on.
You just kind of have to remind yourself. It was
two thousand and one and representation was just not good.
I said, Wow, brilliantly.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Bravely, bravely I've never been said on this show before.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yeah, another thing I wanted to talk about is so okay.
This is a movie about a small group of rich
and powerful industry leaders who conspire to assassinate the leader
of a country so they can continue to exploit child
labor in the Global South so as to maximize profits.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
It's giving all a guarchy. It's giving all a garchy.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Yeah, it sure is pretty interesting for a very silly
comedy movie to be about this, to call attention to this,
because this is a very real thing that continues to
happen around the world.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Caitlin's context corner.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
So there's obviously many examples of this happening in the
world currently. I would like to take this moment to
discuss what's currently happening in the DRC aka the Democratic
Republic of the Congo, just in case listeners are not
aware of this. So this movie is obviously about the
garment and fashion industry. What I'm about to talk about

(53:24):
relates to the tech industry. But the DRC is a
country that's very rich in valuable resources that are used
to manufacture a lot of tech, which means that companies
like Google, Apple, Tesla, Intel, Microsoft, Dell.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Basically everyone who is at the presidential inauguration exactly.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Yes, they are stealing these resources things like tin, tungsten, cobalt,
col tan, just to name a few, and Congolese people
have more or less been enslaved who mine these resources.
The working conditions are incredibly inhumane and unsafe. The workers

(54:07):
are paid almost nothing, less than two US dollars a day,
and a lot of that labor that's being exploited is
child labor, which goes back to the movie Zoolander, but
obviously any type of exploited underpaid labor is wrong anyway.
This is an ongoing humanitarian crisis that's been happening since

(54:28):
the nineties, though imperialist entities have been exploited in Congo
for its resources for much longer than that. Millions of
people in the DRC have been killed, Millions have been
displaced from their homes, Millions are food insecure and living
in extreme poverty. It has devastating effects not only on
the people but also the land. The DRC recently filed

(54:51):
a criminal lawsuit against Apple. Time will tell how that
pans out, but Overall, this is one of the most
significant human wor violations happening in the world currently, and
not many people are talking about it. It does not
get really any Western mainstream news coverage. So I just
wanted to take this opportunity to help spread awareness about this.

(55:15):
Listeners can help by boycotting the aforementioned companies. You can
change the way you consume electronics. You can buy refurbished
instead of constantly buying new shit all the time. You
can donate to organizations that are providing aid to people
in the DRC. You can research, do your own research,
and spread your own awareness. There's lots more to learn.

(55:36):
I've you know, what I've said just covers the basics,
but you know, there's lots to know.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
And we can leave some links in the description as well,
for like a jumping off, because I think like that's
something that I feel also under informed on in general,
and like, yeah, you don't know what you don't know,
but once you write, you know, spread the information. I
thank you for doing that research. Kitlin.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
I've been learning about this myself for the past of
year or so and it's just like really horrifying, and yeah,
it is not being talked about because it is not
in the capitalist world's interest to talk about it or
draw attention to it.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
So and who owns most of our newspapers? Now, like,
there's that's the rent that I can go on for
five thousand. I mean, I think this is unfortunately maybe
a good point to mention that Ben Stiller is I
guess I don't know exactly how to characterize, but he
last year released what could generously be described as a

(56:41):
very both sides, the statement about Palestine, and uh, the
kind of both size, the statement that I feel indicates
that he's probably a Zionist. You can look it up
if you like. It did not sit well with me
at all, and that is just something to be aware

(57:03):
of as well.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, is there anything else anyone would like to talk
about regarding the movie Zoolander?

Speaker 4 (57:10):
I'm so curious what someone like you're adjusting it. But
you're you're you were so young to me. You will
always be very young to me, Jamie, because you are
younger than me, which means you are a child. But no, no, no, no, no,
You're you're a full of fledged adult. You have like
a huge resume. You're very impressive.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
I'm seventeen, oh, Wow.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Yeah, yeah, but then you've done so much. What a
young person today would think watching this, like they would
they get any of the cameos because there's so many,
Like every scene is filled with celebrities, Like why is
Natalie Portman in this movie? Lenny Kraft this movie?

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Like Christian Slater. We got a Cuba Gooding junior beast,
like Lenny Kraviat Fabio.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah, I think I got like two out of three.
Every there were a few that I'm like, I don't know,
I honestly, and this is like fucked up. But like
I sometimes don't know who David Ducovney is. But I like,
once someonees like, that's David Ducovney, I'm like, right, but
I just never watched The X Files. I certainly didn't
watch Californication, so he's just like not on my radar.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Fair, I wonder. I mean, a young person watching this,
I'm sure they would look at Gary Shandling and be like, oh, yeah,
it's Gary.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Get that right away.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
You would definitely be in the front row at fashion.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Week Fashion Week, Gary Shaner, for sure. Fred Durst is
Fred Durst? Is there?

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Fred Durst? That was fun?

Speaker 3 (58:40):
That was fun. I don't even think you can call
it a cameo because it's well and ink spoiler for
the movie Y two K. But he's like a full
character in that movie.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Also in I saw the TV Glow, Yes, Fred Durst
is a full on.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Actually a twenty four darling.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
I don't remember that at all.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
You didn't see it. Wait, you did see Fred Durston.
I saw the TV Glow all, I saw.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
The movie, but I don't remember him being in that
the dad Yeah that's Red Durst.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Jane Schoenbrun is so diabolical with casting. I love their
casting because it was like Connor, O'Malley and Fred Durst
and I saw the TV Glow You're like, sure, yeah, yep,
fred Durst does. I think a great job in that
movie too.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
I mean he's at least unrecognizable as Fred Durst.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
If he's not wearing.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
He's not wearing a hat. That might be why you
didn't see.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
If he's not wearing his like backwards just a little
outred Yankees hat or whatever the fuck. I don't know
who that is exactly.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
God, that is the year two thousand and one to
me is like Nelly with the band aid and Fred
Durst with the hat. Nelly also, I believe recently performed
at a Trump event.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
I'm like, what the yeah, he performed at the inauguration.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
I think, oh my god, Lord, and for what?

Speaker 2 (59:54):
And for what?

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Snoop Dog as well?

Speaker 4 (59:55):
There is sup Dog. You're not getting enough money from
all that Martha Stewart bullshit and all of your product endorsements,
like bruh, you don't have unforced error, you don't have
to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
What could you possibly need at this point? I just
don't understand.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Okay, but hey, Tyson Beckford is also in the movie.
So is that a hot man?

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
He's one of the few male models that I can
actually aim or he was oh wow.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Yeah, yeah, he was bigger back in the day. Who else?
DJ Paris Hilton makes a cameo.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
She does our coworker DJ Paris. I actually don't even
know if she still has a podcast. She was briefly
our quote unquote callworker.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Nice anyway, Yeah, sorry, I think we cut you off, Canise,
because I just had to go on a tirade about
all the cameos.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
I love the fact that it is such a timestamp
exactly this time. But yeah, I have a four year
old nephew. I love him so much. I wouldn't show
him this movie yet. I mean he has watched like
Captain America Civil War and that's on his parents, but
so I wouldn't show him this yet. He also wouldn't
get it and he'd be bored out of his mind.

(01:01:07):
But when he's like twelve, I want to be like, now,
tell me who any of these people are? Are like
just you'll have.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
No I also love as you like get older, listening
to like what my like younger cousin who's like I
think she's nineteen now, where like she knows who will
Ferrel is, but she her the thing she knows him
from is completely different, where like she would be like, oh,
it's well, I mean I guess she might know elf,
but like she'd be like, oh from Barbie, oh Farrel

(01:01:36):
from the movie Barbie.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Yeah, like you know this are yeah, this this is
how time works.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Time. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
I would also would they because there's a lot in
this movie that we're like, oh that's not so great,
but we still think it's funny. But yeah, if you
weren't around, then would you think this is funny?

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I mean I feel like I don't know I think
that this central like criticism holds up well. I also
think the character of Zoolander does generally hold up. I mean,
the worst thing about this movie by a country mile
is the black face and brown face sequence, especially because
we know that Ben Stiller was weirdly obsessed with doing

(01:02:17):
that in the two thousands, just makes it all the worse.
But like I do like there's elements of this movie
that I found surprisingly good and effective. Okay, and the
jokes are like I feel like anyone should be able
to laugh at the ant joke. That's a good joke.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
A center for ants, It's a good joke.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
It is a solid joke.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
There's a really funny joke when Derek and Matilda first
show up to Hansel's place to be like, we need
a safe spot to hang out because Derek is being
brainwashed into killing the Prime Minister of Malaysia, and Hansel
just goes like yeah, so like yeah, this is normal.
And then when he's introducing everyone to them, when they're
like going through the house and he's like, hey, everyone,

(01:03:01):
this is Derek and Matilda. They're just hanging out here
for a few days because Derek has been brainwashed and
did it and everyone's just like, oh, yeah, hey, it's
so normal to all these people. That is comedy. There's
other grat I mean Derek's tiny little cell phone. Yes,
oh my god, that's comedy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
The tiny little cell phone. You can't beat the time.
I love a tiny little cell phone. For a while,
my dear friend Jake would do that, and I thought
it was his idea and I need to text him
about it because he never told me it was from Zoolander. Wow,
he used to do that bit all the time. I
was like, wow, top ten funniest things I've ever seen
in my life, fully just from Zoolander.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
So many funny things that people do and say I
think have been pulled from.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
I believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
It was.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I was mortified, but I was like, all right, I
can I guess I can wait till I see him
in person next time. But regardless, how dare you deceive?

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
You should definitely my call him out, my.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Young I mean, maybe he just thought I would know.
I don't know, but I was like, Jake's hilarious bit
the tiny phone.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Not so anyway, does anyone have anything else they'd like
to discuss.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Based on the conversation about the Congo. This is not
the most mentally healthy response to that. But I was like, okay,
so we need is like a Zoolander plus the death
of Stalin.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Oh I still haven't seen it, like plus like oh, what's.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
The the tech show that MILNJIOHANNYI put those three things
together to like lambast the tech industry, although I say
that knowing that no major studio would give that money,
nor distributors or distribute it. So somebody definitely has to
do it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Someone else just has to do it independently.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Figure it out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
We can do it. We'll do it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
Let's okay, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Let's do it done.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
The movie, I think does pass the Bechdel test when
Matilda and Katinka talk about Matilda's outfit and it's from Kmart,
and then finally at the end, Matilda's like, no, it's
the something something line and I got it at j C.
Penny on sale, and that passes the Bechdel test.

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
So are there still j C Pennies?

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Yes, okay, there's one in the Glendale Galleria.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
I was about to say, I will occasionally get something
a little overpriced and a little ugly at the Glendale
Galleria j C. Penny.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
I bought a red dress that I wore for Halloween
for the substance costume. Amazing, and I got that at
JC Penny.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Shout out this. This podcast is not sponsored by jay
Z Penny, but I guess we're saying that we're.

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
Open to it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
I guess so. Yeah. So it does pass the Bechdel test. However,
on our nipple scale, I scale where we rate the
movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through
an intersectional feminist lens. Okay, I'm gonna give it two nipples,
and here's why. Okay, you know, from an intersectional feminist

(01:06:11):
point of view, it doesn't hold up particularly well, and
there are many jokes that are very problematic and very cringey.
But the overall story that calls attention to oligarchs exploiting
labor in the global South timely and killing people over it,

(01:06:36):
this was relevant then, it's relevant now. The fact that
a comedy movie is about that is I think pretty cool.
So normally I would give this movie something closer to
like one nipple, but I'm gonna give it to because
of the just premise, and I'm gonna give one nipple
to Derek's tiny cell phone, and I'm gonna give the

(01:06:56):
other nipple to Billy Zane's cameo.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I think I will meet you there for basically the
same reason that this movie was doing more than I
thought it was going to. It makes a point that
I don't think any movie does, certainly not a comedy
about exploitation and labor. I do feel like the way
that the president of Laisa, I forgot to says earlier

(01:07:22):
is presented pretty cartoonish, Yes, for sure, and that felt pointed.
There's not much in terms of intersectional feminism. The movie
is extremely white and yet does manage to feature blackface,
which I'm going down to one and a half. And

(01:07:44):
I think with the Matilda character, were like hinting at
something productive to say, but then ultimately the movie kind
of bails on it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
I like that she's the smartest character though, like I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Know, but like when the smartest character is also the
most boring character, which is that's a skill issue, that's
a writing skill issue. Anyways, I'm going to give it
a nipple and a half. It's it's because its objectively,
if you're just watching a movie, it's so fucking funny.
I totally understand why people still love it, and the

(01:08:17):
presentation of like masculinity I think is imperfect, but way
better than I was expecting for a movie of this era.
Like I think if you put Zoolander in that department
next to any other comedy from two thousand and one
besides Shrek, wo which is great in terms of male friendship,
Shrek and Donkey Hello. I have some thoughts, but well,

(01:08:40):
I'm okay, we're not talking about Shrek anyways. Nipple and
a half they're both going to Zaane obviously interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
I'm going to give this two nipples, one full nipple,
two representations of male friendship, like you discuss like where
they are able to model the type of relationship that
aren't so insecure as to be fragile. It is like, hey,
let's talk about our issues all that. But also, and
we haven't mentioned this. Within the next two hours, they're

(01:09:11):
in a fuck pile together, like yes, six were flying.
It wasn't like, oh, no, we're gay. It was like, hey,
we all like coming, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
It's so true. And they said Challengers was the first
to do.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
It, not so not so those guys. Things went in
places in that pile and good for them. So that's
one nipple to that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
And there was no no homo moment either, which I
feel like happens, and it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:37):
Was just like, hey, there was a moment when we
were all doing this and you two were vibing, but
I was definitely doing some some parts and I was like, yeah,
you go, dude. So one full nipple to that, then
half a nipple to Mila Jovic because I think she's
very funny and she makes me laugh. But then truly
a full half of a nipple to the way that

(01:10:00):
Will Ferrell says her last name, which always makes me bad.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
It's good and I can't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:07):
Exactly, but it's like, you'll have no, no, no, no,
I'm like perfect, So two niffles.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
For me, perfect, Canise. It's always a treat to have you.
Thanks for coming back for the one millionth time. Basically
I love being here.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Come back for the one millionth then once.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
I absolutely will, let's discuss everything you guys have advanced.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Oh shucks, we're so hot right now. We're so hot
right now, and you're so hot right now. Canise tell
us where people can see you and follow you and
check out your stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
Okay, so you can check out my stuff at Canise Mowgley.
On all the social media, although because a lot of
them are bad, I'm on what is the least worst
one for me right now, which is Instagram. But I
know it's owned by Meta, but it makes me feel
better than just being on Facebook. And then I'm not
on Twitter anymore. And I joined Blue Sky, but I

(01:11:03):
don't really post there, so I guess Instagram. I'm sorry. Yeah,
I'm all over that. I have a don't Tell set.
It's coming out soon, so check your feeds for that.
And this is dorky as hell, but if you listen
to this podcast you like movies. I'm hosting the Oscars
event at Franklin Park in Brooklyn. So if you want
to watch the Oscars and do trivia and Philly prizes

(01:11:27):
and games and take photos and maybe win best Costume
or something, then come on by.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Hell yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
We also have kind of an accidental Oscars event because
we rescheduled our LA show to the night that we
didn't realize. What's the same day as.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
The Oscars in the Town of the Oscars.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
In the Town of the Oscars. But here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
They wouldn't have done it if we didn't realize. But
please come to this show.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
Please don't come to the show. Here's the thing. The
Oscars start at four pm Pacific. Our show starts at seven.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Thirty, so it's kind of an after party.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Even if you missed the tail end of the Oscars. Look,
they'll it'll be on Hulu. You can watch it again.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
The strong argument for coming to our shop, yeah, yeah,
you can. You can find us in uh the same
place you can find us on Instagram. Mainly at this point,
there is no ethical social media place to go right now.
I found out that Blue Sky is an Israeli company,
So you're just like, there's place. Yeah, I'm sorry, guys,

(01:12:34):
there's there's there's no fucking place to go. But that
is where you can find us if you're if you're
still there, and then otherwise just check your feeds on
ethical apps like Spotify. Like, I don't know what to
tell you, uh, best of luck to everybody. You can
get our You can follow our Patreon. We haven't looked

(01:12:56):
into the ethics of Patreon, and don't tell us we can't.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
We can't know what this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
You cannot switch that we don't know, but you can
follow our patriot aka Matreon where every eight month for
five dollars you can get two bonus episodes hosted by
Kaitlin and myself, as well as a backlog that consists
of like over one hundred and fifty probably close to
two hundred at this point bonus episodes going back to
twenty seventeen. So that's the best way to directly support

(01:13:23):
the show.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
Absolutely. You can also get our merchant teapublic dot com
sash the Bechtel Cast and all of that is designed
by Jamie and yes, go to our link tree to
grab tickets for the upcoming LA show on March second.
That's link tree slash Bechtel Cast and hopefully we see
you there and if not, it's being live streamed, very true,

(01:13:46):
so you can get a live stream ticket and watch
it in the comfort of your own home.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Elliot, So if you want your Oscar's post mortem slash
General Bechdel Cast celebration, that's the place to be.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Indeed, and with that, let's all head to the The
Bechdel Cast Center for kids who want to learn how
to podcasts. Good Bye, Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is
a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis,

(01:14:20):
produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme
song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Volskrosenski.
Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and
a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about
the podcast, please visit link Tree slash Bechdel Cast