Zootopia with Matthew Mixon

This week, Animal Jamie and Animal Caitlin head to the city of Zootopia with special guest Matthew Mixon.

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Doll Cast. The questions asked if movies have
women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the bel Cast. Jamie, Hey,
I don't have a great intro for this, but I
was thinking that we should get those little like carrot

(00:24):
shaped pens. They are also voice recorders that Judy Hopps
has in the movie, and then use that to record
the beck Dold Cast on from now on. Just depend
with how much I had genuine questions about a lot
of things in this movie. One of the lower stakes
things was the pen. I was like, how much storage
is on that thing? Is there an SD card? I

(00:46):
think it's. I think it's we gotta we gotta go
to I. I don't want to go to zo Topia.
I really don't. Um, well, I'll still go. I gotta
be honest, you go, what would you do? Um, we'll
get to that. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name
is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante, and this

(01:08):
is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional
feminist lens using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping
off point. But Jamie, I don't remember what that is. Well,
I can tell you what it is if you want, Okay,
I will. The Bechdel Test is a media metric created

(01:28):
by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test.
Many per mutations of this test. Here's the one we use.
We require that two characters with names of a marginalized
gender speak to each other about something other than a
man for two lines of dialogue minimum, and the it
has to have some meaning to it. It's got to

(01:51):
have some heft. I like that. Nothink I've ever said.
I don't find myself saying heffed out loud a lot.
But and for anyone was to the show for the
first time, being like, is that all you're going to
talk about on the show? No? And in fact, I'll
say that this movie does pass um. It's not really
it's not as maybe not as much as a show,
but it does. You know, we'll talk about it. Something

(02:13):
that has been happening to me for the past I
don't know, one to two years of this podcast is
I forget to pay attention very I mean, it's and
you're very on top. You're great at your job. Thank you.
But that is the one thing you good is the
name of this show. We've transcended so far beyond the

(02:34):
very basic low bar that is the Bechdel test. Yeah,
our our third eyes are open, right, and I just
where is this? Uh? Genuinely I think they're coming up
on three hunt are definitely with our Matreon episodes, we've

(02:54):
covered around three D and fifty movies. Yeah, let me
consult the Wikipedia. Also shout out to the mysterious benefactor
who's been taking care of the Wikipedia page for years now.
We don't know who you are, but boy, do you
put me on blast in the footnotes sometimes? Holyishh it
I never I forget to check. Two hundred seventy seven

(03:18):
episodes out of today have been released on the maid
feed on the Mad Yeah, I've been doing this for
many moons. Oh my goodness. Well let's get our guests
in the mix, shall we. He's a writer and director
and that's our friend Matt Mixon. Thanks for having me,
thanks for coming on, thank you for and thank you
for bringing us a real pickle of a waiting And

(03:40):
why did we do this one? Again? Was this on
the list on your list, but this but my I
made my list based off of the frequently requested yeah
backtel cast list right correct. We've gotten a lot of
requests for this movie over the years, and I once again,
as with many of our popular requests, I'm like, really, everyone,

(04:02):
are we okay? Um? But we're We're curious, Matt, what
is your history? It was, oh yeah, the movies Utopia.
He came out in the greatest year of all time? Um, Matt,
what's your history with this movie? I watched this movie
on the day of a funeral of like a really
close loved one past and I was in Wisconsin and

(04:25):
it was freezing, and I was with my mom and
my sister and we popped it on and I remember
really enjoying it. It was my number fourteen movie often.
I retroactively popped it on having seen it in January.
Do you do yearly rankings? Yeah? I do him. Um,

(04:46):
I keep it running ranking on letterbox now. But also
have a movie journal so I can always know the
day and like, who I saw this? That's so nice.
I should be more diligent about logging my movie activity.
It's just like a it's like a life journal. You
can just look back and remember. You'll just see a
weird name, be like who Funks? Did I see that with?

(05:06):
Like or you know, yeah, it's just really it's a
nice way to remember. Yeah, I Maggie may Fish shout
out to someone who's wedding we just attended. UM makes
movie journals. I think we will drop the link in
there because I because I got one and I have
yet to use it because I have a fundamental resistance

(05:27):
to remember things that happened to me. UM, and that's
a therapy problem. So, um, Jamie, what's your history and
relationship with Zootopia? Nothing. I had not seen this movie,
and it was what a journey because I feel like
maybe if I saw this at the beginning of twenty
sixteen when it came out, I probably would have felt

(05:50):
different just because but I don't know. I mean, I yeah,
I hadn't seen it. I didn't really know what it
was about, and I didn't like it. It's fucking it's
such a bad movie. Okay, I'm glad that the Tension
has been released, because I fucking hated every second of
this movie. It was like kind of vile and it

(06:10):
was like, I don't think that there were like poor
intentions behind this movie, but like the just every bad
choice like it was. I was blown away by how
much I disliked it. I think people requested this movie
originally because they liked it. Yeah, but it's about girl
boss Cop Solves, who causes racism and then she fixes it,

(06:35):
but also she This movie truly blew my mind for
like how many very at least very obvious, uh flights
of logic that it just barrels through. Um. So yeah,
I'm I came to this movie with fresh eyes, and boy,
oh boy, I hated it. You remember liking it when

(06:59):
you first saw it as well, which was in theaters,
and when did it come out, like March of and
I remember having a good time, But that was also
the year that Mo Wanna came out, and I remember
being furious that this movie, Zutopia won the Academy Award
for Best Animated Feature the Academy Award over mo Wanna. Yes,

(07:21):
And I was absolutely furious because I was like, yeah,
Zutopia was fun, but Mohanna is a far superior film.
And the gap now between the quality of those two movies,
because at the time I was like, oh yeah, Zutopia
is only slightly not as good, But now I'm like

(07:42):
Zootopia's socks and Mohanna is still perfect, so I think
it is. Really, I mean, it's an interesting example of
like how much public thinking has changed in the last
six years alone. It came out six like less than
six years ago, and I truly was shocked at how
poorly it's aged. Like just, yeah, there's there's so much

(08:05):
to talk about. We're not like coming into I Sometimes
I feel like we come into a movie like this movie,
Like if you liked the movie when it came out,
I'm sure I would. Like if I had seen it
in theaters, I'm sure I would. I would have enjoyed it.
And like, if you still like it, that's also fine.
But then listen to us during the episode. Yeah, should

(08:26):
we just get into it? I guess so, yeah, and
Matt feel free to jump in during the recap, we
go there's so much there's so many things that I'm
going to want to be like but wait, if that's true,
how could that be true? Okay? How did she puts
her phone in a plastic ziploc baggy to like when
they flushed themselves down the toilet? But why doesn't she

(08:47):
do that for her little pen. That's the first thing
you're taking only because we were talking about that's the
my only gripe with the film end of episode everything else,
the message that positive. I think it made a ton
of sense. This uh well, kind of say again before
we start shooting all of this movie. I enjoyed it
when I saw it. Yeah, a lot has changed in

(09:07):
four or five years. So whatever, let's have a good
time here. But you know, just I it was my
number fourteen of the year. I mean that's crazy, that's wild.
I mean it's like, yeah, so so again it's like
as always on the back to cast, never feel bad
for loving him, unless I mean there's a few where
it's like you should feel bad. This is not one
of them, right. But also, you know, if we can

(09:28):
bring maybe a few red flags to your attention, we
would like to do that. That's our job. Okay. So
Zootopia takes place in an advanced animal society where predator
animals and prey animals coexist in harmony. Big cats can
be accountants, sheep can be astronauts. Anyone can be anything,

(09:53):
though it wasn't always that way in this world, predators
used to eat prey, just like in our world. Uh
but again, huge problems, enough for fun, but the animals
have evolved beyond that. So we meet Judy Hopps. She's
a young rabbit who wants to be a police officer
for the city of Zutopia number two, also voiced by

(10:20):
um mrs. He's just not that into you herself A
good one. I hadn't heard of this person. Oh really
she's I'm sure she's in other things, and but I
know her as the person who really was not fun
to watch in a movie that wasn't fun to watch.
He's just not that into you. Sure, wow, Okay, So

(10:42):
she wants to be a cop when she grows up,
something that her carrot farmer parents try to discourage her
from doing, saying that there's never been a bunny cop before.
That's again, it's like it's so at first, then the
parents are like, don't be a cop. I was like,
all right, I'm listening, and they're like, because bunny a cop,
it wouldn't have I was like, oh god, okay, we

(11:02):
missed it. And then it's like, oh, not wanting a
bunny to be a cop is prejudice and misogyny. It's right.
The muddled allegory is really muddled, and the movie is
confused anyway. Okay, So her parents are like, don't be
a cop and then also a bully. This fox named

(11:24):
Gideon also tells her that she'll never be anything more
than a week carrot farming little bunny and then he
scratches her face. So now she has all this fox
related trauma. Cut to fifteen years later, Judy is now
attending Zutopia Police Academy. She struggles at first, but learns
to play to her strengths and she starts to excel

(11:46):
at the academy. This whole scene was really giving me
the worst possible version of that sequence from Mulan, Oh,
where Mulan becomes a really amazing soldier, except this is
her book coming a semi competent cop, and it's like
she keeps hearing the like you'll never be a cop,
and it's like sometimes it's like listen to the voices

(12:08):
in your head. I mean, there's nothing wrong with giving up. Yes, Okay.
So then at her graduation from the academy, the mayor
of Zutopia, a lion named lion Heart, while also created
and his assistant mayor, a sheep named Yes literally Jenny

(12:35):
Yes a k a. Also Bell Weather. They recognize Judy's accomplishments.
She's the valedictorian of her class and she's the first
rabbit to become a police officer in Zootopia. So Jody
is about to ship off to Utopia. Her parents tell
her to be careful in the big city, to be
aware of predator animals like bears and wolves and especially foxes.

(12:59):
Then they give her some fox repellent spray. Judy then
gets assigned to Precinct one of Utopia. It's the city center,
though there are like a dozen different ecosystems in a
city like Tundra town Sahara Square, and Rainforest District Wow.

(13:20):
So on her first day on the job, Judy learns
about fourteen different missing animal cases. They are all predators
who have gone missing um, but she doesn't get assigned
to work on any of those. Chief Bogo, voiced by Idrisalba,
assigns her parking duty, and while she's doing that, she
sees a fox who seems to be up to no good,

(13:43):
but then it turns out he's just It's Jason Bateman
and he's just trying to buy his son a popsicle
from an elephant who is prejudice against foxes. But then
it turns out he is up to no good. His
name is Nick Wild. By the way, this is like
the first of many examples in this movie where a

(14:05):
prejudice is referenced, but then canonically in the world, it's like,
and she was right, Like, you're just like right, what
is the point? What is the function of that? I
will say that There's all these like little moments towards
the beginning of the movie when Judy is like, I
want to be a girl boss cop. But then she's like,
I guess I'll take out all my frustration about not
being able to be a real cop, which again is

(14:28):
like that's loaded into like issuing petty parking tickets to
the working class and what if I did that? It's okay, right?
Or are we are we jumping in to talk about it?
Or do you want to finish your thing because I
got thoughts. We'll get well, let's let's get through the
recap and then I'm going to keep jumping in. Um okay,

(14:52):
So Nick Wild the fox is actually up to no good.
He's yeah, not bad. He melts down the popsicle to
make a bunch of smaller popsicles to sell to lemmings
to make a profit. Fun hilarious, right, So then Judy
confronts him about it, and he's like, no, I have

(15:13):
all the permits I need. Also, you're a loser and
you thought that, you know, you would live here and
it would be this equitable utopia, but that's not the reality.
So then she goes home and she feels all dejected.
But then the next day she stops a thief from
stealing a bag of onion like vegetables. Those are important later,

(15:34):
I guess um. But even so, Chief Bogo isn't happy
with her and he's about to fire her, but then
an otter named Mrs Otterton comes in another sorry, another
genius name, perfect no notes, voiced by Octavia Spencer. Is
that right, Yeah? What a thankless voice role she does.

(15:56):
She has like thirty seconds of screen time. So she
comes in saying that her husband Emmett Otterton has been
missing for ten days, and Judy is like, well, I'll
help find him. So Chief Bogo gives her forty eight
hours to find the missing otter, but if she can't
then she's off the force and it seems like there

(16:17):
are no leads for this case. But then Judy notices
Nick the fox in the photo of Emmett Otterton's last
known sighting. So Judy finds Nick and makes him help
with her investigation. Emmett Otterton had bought a popsicle from Nick,
then he went to a spa, where Judy gets a

(16:37):
lead that Emmett left the spa and got into a
white car. Also, like every time that she's moving the plot,
I mean she's moving the plot forward, but she often
moves the plot forward by um breaking the rules of
being a cop, where she threatens to put Nick in
jail for tax evasion. Classic cop Like she right, yes,

(17:04):
she's kind of born, born to do it because she
And then there's that part that we're about to get
to where she's like, well, there's ways around getting a warrant.
You're like, what the fuck? She sorry, we'll go ahead.
She fucking tricks Nick into climbing the fence, so she
has probably cause to bake. Yeah, Like that's like fucking coption,

(17:26):
Jennifer Goodwin. So then they go to the d m
V and run the license plate that the guy at
the spot just happened to remember. Then there's a scene
with sloths that I find so annoying. Well, it's another
example of like, oh my god, I hated it. They
used that as promo for the movie for a while,

(17:48):
and I was just like, I don't want to see
this movie because this scene sucks. I really hated it
so much that. Yeah, I thought it was a funny idea.
But again it is like another example of like the predge,
this is correct, right, Yeah, we were leaning into the
stereotypes of sloths. I don't know, but as a but
as a but as a funny comedy set up where

(18:09):
he kept changing the words in the sentence. I was last,
maybe the movie's only truly good bit. Uh, yeah, I
suppose you're right. I just found that the way that
the line delivery of the sloths, I was like that,
I just didn't like it. The performance is what I
really took issue with. Anyway. So they go to the

(18:32):
d m V. That leads them to a limousine company
in Tundratown, where they find the limo and inside his
Emmett's wallet and a bunch of claw marks. Judy and
Nick are like, what the fuck. But then they get
caught by the Limos owner, which is this crime boss Mr. Big.
It's a whole like homage to the Godfather for this.
This reminded me of like there's a few sequences in

(18:54):
this movie where this movie is like going for this
is not the first time I've said this. In the show,
they're going for a shreky in energy, but it's perhaps
not working, um because they're just like there's this like
long homage to a movie that no child has ever seen,
and they like, hopefully the parents are going to crack
up at this weird Godfather interlude that will come back.

(19:19):
I hated came Also, we should put shreky In on
some new merch. Shreky and something about shreking energy, shreking
vibes something. It rarely works outside of Shrek and this one.
I mean, because there's like multiple points where it's like
this movie is very like leaning into pop culture. She's like, listen,

(19:40):
anytime there's like a movie where they play all by
myself when the character's sad, like, okay, shreky In, um,
but it doesn't work. It wasn't laughing, not in Zootopia, Shrek.
What I we need to stop the regarding Shrek Rock
it's good, I mean, it has its problems, and then

(20:03):
Shrek Too. You gotta see Shrek to Shrek Too is
has suffers from many of the same problems. Also going
to say this this seek this part rips off training day,
yeah day where they're like having in the bathtub and
they're both to kill Ethan Hawk and then they find
out that he saved the dude's daughter. It's like the

(20:24):
exact same thing that happens there, Okay, And again it's
like that reference is for who. I don't think it's
a reference that was just straight. That was this plagiarism
that was and that was like another bizarro girl boss
cop moment where if you like, I mean, it's like,
if you apply a second of thought to a lot
of the things that happened in this movie, it just

(20:45):
completely falls apart or becomes deeply unethical. Um where it's
like she saves that what animal is the Godfather is
like like a little mole. I think, awesome, No, that's
not powesome. I'm from the woods, so I know about
woodland critters. Possums are huge and they're fucking on my
neighbor's roof every single night. I think it's like a

(21:08):
little mole maybe, but like she saves the Godfather's daughter
from and I haven't seen the Grandfather, so I'm just assume,
but I know what happens in the movie. Basically, it's
pretty good. It's wait, that's a hot take. I've never
heard that. You check it out. But Godfather too, Godfather

(21:29):
to suffers from many of this. This person just told
me they saw a house of Gucci twice in two days,
like fifteen minutes ago. Look, I see, I see it.
I haven't seen you know that's true. I mean, we
all have our areas we do need to, you know,
improve upon. My Godfather spot is not good. But well,

(21:51):
we've been talking about for years maybe doing Godfather Month
on the Matreon because we covered a frances for Cobla
movie recently. But it was Peggy's who got married Francis Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah I did. It's a weird one, but oh so
the logic is that Judy saved the daughter from a

(22:12):
large doughnut whatever, and then Judy compliments her wedding dress,
and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, okay,
now the cops can collude with the mob, and then
that's just cannon. For the rest of the movie, the
cops are colluding with the mob, which happens in real life.
But I don't think that that's any Like the movie
is not commenting on anything there, Like the mob is

(22:33):
funny r so, and we love cops that here in Zootopia,
Oh my god, they love cops. So the crime boss
is like, all right, you can get some more information
from the driver of the limo. So Judy and Nick
go to the rainforest district to talk to the limo driver,
a jaguar named Mr Manches, who says that all of

(22:57):
a sudden, emmet the otter went wild in the limo.
He became violent and attacked him, all while yelling about
night howlers. And then right then Mr Manches also turns
into a wild animal and attacks them. Judy and Nick
narrowly escape, but when Chief Bogo shows up to the scene,

(23:19):
Mr Manches is gone, so Judy has no evidence to
support her theory that for some reason, these animals are
going wild. But Judy still has a few hours to
crack the case. So she and Nick, who are getting
along better, maybe they're even becoming friends. What they set

(23:40):
off to city Hall to get help from Assistant Mayor Bellweather,
who Assistant Mayor Jenny Slade missing a major piece which
thing trauma. Oh, yes, okay, so there's a flashback. Yeah,
I figured we'd we'd get sometimes I gloss over. Let

(24:00):
me do my job, Matt. So they go to bell Weather,
who can get them access to traffic cams to see
where Mr Manches went. They discover that a couple of
wolves grabbed Mr Manches and put him in the back
of a van. Judy's like, oh, those must be the
night howlers, because wolves howl. So they track where the

(24:23):
wolves went, which leads Judy and Nick to this facility
where they find a number of predator animals basically all
the mammals who have recently gone missing, including Emmett Otterton,
but they're all like feral and wild. Then Mayor lion
Heart comes in. He seems to be the bad guy
behind this whole operation. So, like Judy calls it in,

(24:44):
the mayor is arrested and it seems like the case
is solved. And this is one of the points in
the movie that I got so frustrated because it's like, Okay,
city Hall corruption yeah, totally, but but but but you
know what institution is above criticism the cops. You're like
a fucking hey, come on. Anyways, So then during a

(25:07):
press conference about this case, Judy mentions that all of
the animals that went wild, we're predators and mentions that
maybe it has something to do with their biology, which
greatly upsets Nick since as a fox he is a predator,
so he storms off. And then following this press conference,
there is civil unrest around Zootopia, with more predator animals

(25:34):
going wild and attacking prey animals wondering if they're safe.
There's protests. Also the Shakira as a gazelle. She's like
everyone everyone in Zootopia is a huge fan of Shakira.
Also that song the Slap. Though, to be fair, try

(25:55):
anything pretty good for me, and I'm a fan. I
don't dislike Shakire at all, but I just feel like
there's other pop stars there. I recently watched Don't Look Up,
which I also didn't really like very much, but Ariana
Grande fills a similar role in Sure and Don't Look

(26:15):
Up and the song and I was equally underwhelmed by
the song Sure. I quite liked don't look up. But
that's just me, you know. Anyways, So it wasn't shrekky
and enough. And also, as Matt pointed up, I saw
how was a Gucci twice, So we're just different people
at the end of the day. So Judy feels responsible

(26:38):
for this civil unrest and resigns from her cop job,
much to the disappointment of Bell Weather, who is now mayor.
So then Judy goes back home to become a carrot farmer.
But when she's there, she learns about these vegetables that,
when eaton, can make an animal wild and aggressive. And
guess what they're called night how Rulers. So it turns

(27:02):
out that's what Emmett Otterton was talking about. Also, her
bully owns a food truck now question Mark awesome, And
it's like the most aware, self aware bully you've ever
seen in a movie. He's been in therapy for. Oh,
this was one funny. Like one of the funnier flights

(27:23):
of logic of the movie is that all the animals
in the Zootopia expanded universe live human length lifespans. Because
at the beginning, it's like, you know, Judy is bullied
by a future food truck owner, and then it was
fifteen years later and it's like, oh, Judy is fully dead.
She's fifteen years later, you're telling me a twenty four

(27:46):
year old rabbit is good. Piss me off, didn't. I
was like, there's so many there's huge, high level issues
and then there's little things that it's like, come on, well,
you know, and you're disbelieve you're fair fair? What can

(28:07):
I say to that? Okay? So, so it turns out
these vegetables are what has been making the predators become violent.
So Judy rushes back to Zutopia. She tells Nick her
theory that someone is targeting predators on purpose and making
them go wild. So then Nick forgives her and the
team back up and find a lab where this ram

(28:29):
named doug Uh is like making a serum with the
nightholler vegetables that he's been shooting predators with. So that
grabbed the evidence and make their way to the police department.
Also really clunky breaking bad reference. So on the way

(28:51):
they run into Shrek that that is an attempt at
the Shreky end, but it's not where it doesn't quite
work the way this movie like in the way that
I was like, I know what you're talking about, but
unlike Shrek, it's making a reference and I'm not laughing.
It's just a reference for a reference to say. So.

(29:13):
On the way to the police department, they run into
Mayor bell Weather, who ends up being the bad guy
who was behind the whole thing. She tries to sabotage them,
and she shoots Nick with the serum so that he
will go wild and kill Judy. But Nick had loaded
the gun with blueberries, so it didn't work. Classic classic switcher.

(29:37):
How does this factory into Chekov's guns principle? There's Jason
Bavin has to load it with blueberries by the third
act or it shouldn't be there. Um okay. So, and
then they managed to get an audio recording on Judy's
little Carrot pen that is also a high quality voice

(29:59):
recorder um of bell Weather confessing to this whole conspiracy.
Bell Weather is arrested, Lion Heart is reinstated as mayor
I think, or maybe that doesn't happen. I don't know.
Um no, he's like also in trouble, right, yeah, yeah,
because he was complicit, but Judy is a hero. And

(30:20):
then Nick also becomes a cop slash Judy's cop partner,
and then the movie ends on another sloth joke. I
was blown away that it was like, it was like,
there's no he's he's good in that he's a cop
at the end, and they're like, and don't we love that?
And don't we love it? Let's take a quick break
and then we'll come right back to discuss back we're

(30:50):
back um with odds. Where should we begin here? I
think we we um. We gave a preview of some
of the mater issues, but there's we didn't even touch
on all of them. There's Joe Biden's America. I know
this movie came out in Obama's America, but this is

(31:13):
a Joe bidden and then yea all day Okay, so
what who is Jason Paymon Black? Like what's what the fuck? There?
Great questions questions? Okay, our foxes black? I know this
movie doesn't know, but what do you think they thought?

(31:35):
I think there's a lot of shrug and going on
between these couple of writers. I feel like the movie
gets so a lot like because when the movie starts,
I thought I was like, oh, bunnies are being presented
as a minority because they're like, well, bunnies don't become cops.
Bunnies can't do anything but be carrot farmers, and there's

(31:58):
no reference to like jener or anything like that. I
was like, Okay, so is that the allegory being set up?
But then it turns out no, that's not. And then
and then so it's like every new character I feel
contradicts the logic of what the movie has been saying
so far. I don't know, here was my best guests.

(32:18):
So I think that the movie is setting up a
parallel basically that predator animals are people of color and
prey animals are white people. There are a few hints
to this as far as like the ratio of like

(32:39):
prey to predator, but also that's not even reflective of
like a major metropolis, where like a lot of cities
are extremely ethnically diverse, So that doesn't even track right.
But then also, although I would say, you know the
piece where her parents are super afraid of letting her
go to the city, that's real, sure, you know, like

(33:01):
they're they're like, oh, there's all these predators there. Don't go,
you'll get mubbed or whatever. Right, I'm not saying that
was like a good point or anything. I just right.
There were like moments where I was like, Okay, I
think I understand what the movie is trying to do here,
and then there were other scenes where I was like,
I just don't know. I just like right, because it's

(33:24):
so muddled. The messaging in the allegories extremely muddled. And
you'll never guess why. It's because the people who made
this movie were a lot of white men. What I okay,
So here's a little here's some context corner. So and
I got a lot of this information from So. There

(33:45):
was a screening of the movie in and there was
a Q and a panel with several of the filmmakers
after the screening. So it was Jared Bush, Rich Moore
Byron Howard, who all directed the movie. I will say
Richmore is a great white guy name What's More Money Baby.
Jared Bush also co wrote the screenplay, and also present

(34:08):
at this panel was Phil Johnston, the other co writer
of the screenplay. The movie also has several story by credits.
Jared Busch is also credited on MO Wanna big here
for that guy? J I s Jared, I saw it.
We'll do an episode on it. We got to do

(34:29):
it with Melissa Right, Okay, so this panel got written
about in the rap, so here's where I'm getting a
lot of this information. So basically in this like right up,
the filmmakers are really patting themselves on the backs, being like, wow,
our intentions were like so honorable when we were making,

(34:51):
you know, developing this movie. We wanted to do a
movie with like an easily digestible allegory for racism, isn't
that And then they talked about like the research they did,
and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this movie is
so prescient during this time of political unrest because it
was released during the time that was leading up to

(35:11):
the election. Uh. And they're like yeah, but you know,
we've just been paying attention to what's been happening, just
like not even reflective of the movie's production history even remotely. Yes,
because it was supposed to be a sixties heist movie,
like an espionage John Lasseter and you're just like I
was like, so okay, so yeah, the movie went through

(35:34):
several drafts and just like wild rewrites. So the filmmakers
they're talking about how relevant their movie is. Um, you
learn about the research they did, which was mostly on animals,
Uh at the Animal Kingdom. They didn't even They literally
are like, let's go to Disney's World. We can do

(35:56):
that for free, and let's just stare at Lemmings for
six days and be like, all write our movie about racism.
You're forgetting about the two weeks safari they went on
in Kenya where they studied animal behavior. Uh, they did
not seem to do nearly as much research on I
don't know, critical race theory or anything like that. It

(36:18):
seems as that they talked to exactly one person, Dr
Shockty Butler, who is a filmmaker and an educator on
racial diversity. Director Byron Howard said, quote, she taught us
everything there was to know about bias and discrimination things
we had no idea existed. End quote. So this is

(36:40):
the background, Like, this is the context that these filmmakers
had for trying to develop this allegory for racism, which
they did not execute well. Which is so clear based
on like the story team assembled is I believe five

(37:02):
white guys, uh and then um one white woman Jennifer
Lee who is the director of The Frozen from Chies,
and then one woman of collar Josie Trinidad, who is
currently and I think at the time of this movie's
release as well, was in charge of the Disney Animation

(37:25):
story team. So it's kind of unclear how much actual
story she wrote because her job is primarily translating script
to visuals um like storyboarding type stuff, right, right, and
that seems to be kind of her her primary job.
So it's like impossible to know who contributed what in
a team this big. But the team is vast majority

(37:49):
white guys, and then you know white people in general, right,
So they fumbled it in a number. So okay, this
movie we made a billion dollars. A billion dollars, that's
so many, but it still doesn't make sense. Who is Hops?

(38:12):
What's Hops? As deals supposed to be? Right, So we've
got this, like you were saying, Jamie, the movie is
setting up this like the idea that people are prejudiced
against rabbits and saying you can't be a can't be
cops Hops is a woman? That okay, so right, right,
But it's like if that's the case, they need to
make that clear because it's like not like bunnies covered

(38:37):
the gender spectrum, but they were just like no bunny
cops period, right, So that's confusing and right, So I
guess like in this movie, rabbits are women, because there's
there's a few other references to that too, where it's like, oh,
you rabbits, you're you're so emotional, and oh you throw

(38:58):
like a bunny, you're bad drivers, you throw like a bunny,
like all these things that are stereotypes about women. But
we know that all rabbits are not women because Dad
multiple occasions and the front desktop calls her cute, and
she says that only another bunny can call her cute. Okay,

(39:18):
So there's a bunch of like weird, very cringe e
jokes that are like specifically referencing either aspects of black
culture or stereotypes about black people, right, where it's like, oh,
a bunny can call another bunny cute, right, that makes
no sense, But if she's who we think she is, right,

(39:40):
Jennifer Goodwin. And then there's another scene where Nick is
touching bell Weather's wool on her head and she's like,
you can't touch a sheep's wool, which is like, I
guess analogous to you, you can't touch a black woman's hair.
So this sheep with her wolf. So there's that thing

(40:03):
that doesn't make sense, but it's Jenny's Jenny's light has
been in this pickle a couple of different times. And
then there's another scene where shortly after Judy meets Nick
in like the popsicle place, she's like, Oh wow, you're
so articulate, but it's Jason Bates. It's pretty articulate, actually, right.

(40:32):
The metaphor is so messy, where sometimes it's a metaphor
about discrimination that women face, but we only see that
with one character in Judy hops and she's a prey animal,
and then the rest of the metaphor is about race
rather than gender. But sometimes references to people of color
are attributed to prey animals when the larger allegory is

(40:55):
that predator animals are the allegorical people of color. Christian
Mark like, it's so messy, and like, I understand that movies,
especially when it's like directed towards children, if they're trying
to tackle a complex issue, like a complex allegory, they
will simplify things and the interest of like making it

(41:16):
digestible for a younger audience. But there's also a responsibility
to make that allegory clear and make sure it makes
sense and that it tracks, and the movie like again,
just fumbles it and every step of the way. I
also feel like that not to bring Shreky and back.

(41:38):
But if you are, like, it's clear that like Disney
at this point, this is true of all Disney movies.
They're very self referential and they make it clear that's like,
we know that adults are watching this too, and we
want to give you something to enjoy too. So it's like,
if that's true, then you need to really think through
the entire metaphor. You can't just like throw in a
couple of song references and be like it's for grown

(42:00):
ups too. It's like the right And then another reason
that this whole metaphor doesn't track is the copaganda thing,
where the irony of a movie that is trying to
make a statement about racial prejudice that also centers a
character who is like this hero cop and in a

(42:22):
movie that seems to have like a very pro cop agenda,
keep saying like, wow, cops are awesome. We need them
to make our community safe. They help make society a
better place, when in the real world, like law enforcement
is an institution that was founded on and is one
of the biggest enforcers of racial prejudice, which renders the

(42:45):
allegory of this movie a complete paradox. Like it just
it ends the movie ends with both, Like the movie
begins with neither of our protagonists being cops and ends
optimistically with both of them being cops. They should have
ended the movie at the end of act two where
she she stops being a cop. That was the best

(43:07):
part of the movie. Well that was the second best
part of the way. I'll get to the best part, okay,
but yeah, I was like, hell, yeah, go off like
a back tops, be a farmer, you know, just like
work the land, or be something else, like they keep
That's why it's like, I mean, even the opening sequence
of the movie, they're like, anyone could be anything, and

(43:29):
then they come up with like accountant and cops, like
there's yeah, the jaguars, Like I want to be an actuary.
I don't even know what that is, and I didn't
bother looking it up. I don't know. It sounds boring.
Dream Baker kids like do and and yeah, I mean
that's of the many things that gets muddled here. It's like,

(43:52):
I don't know, I mean, in a movie, even in
sixteen it is a very bizarre specific route to choose
be being a cop, and then kind of like doubling
down on that by I mean, in my head, I'm like,
this is a girl boss logic firing on all cylinders,
where you know, her parents are like, it's great to
have dreams, but don't don't dream too big. You don't

(44:14):
want to dream out of your pay grade kind of thing,
which is something you see It happened very often at
the beginning of uh story where a woman is told,
you know, this isn't your place, and then Drew Barrymore
does whatever, and then the movie's over, and that's very
clearly what's being set up here. But her dream sucks,
and so you're sort of like, well, maybe your parents

(44:36):
are right. Yeah, okay, so let's let's just say that
she is like the girl boss white woman. On top
of that, she fucking sucks, like she's a piece of ship.
Yeah okay, So what do you what do you both
think is the movie saying that? Okay, because she has
this idea of like, her idea of being a cop

(44:58):
has nothing to do with like helping people. It's it's
like she says it does, but it does she ever
say that yeah, because she says, I want to make
the world a better place by being a copy Yeah,
but her actions do not reflect that. Right. She wants
to like cough bad guys basically, and so she gets

(45:18):
caught up by Gideon as a kid, and that gets
like linked to her dream of being a cop, right yeah,
and her you know, punitive ideas of justice and like
you know, tracking people down and like you know, hunting Weaselton,
who I'll get to in a bit. Weaselton's the ship

(45:38):
the dopest character in this movie, Weaselton, who I was like,
that sounds a lot like Steve bush Emy, but it's
not doing impression. Totally didn't it. So I don't know
what they're trying to say. They're trying to say that
Foxes are bad, so that's why she's gonna stop them,
or she's trauma ties by a fox and so now

(46:02):
she holds an unfair prejudice against Foxes. It maybe both
because she wants to be a cop prior to that,
but like that moment where she stops the bully and
then he specifically says you'll never be You'll never be,
and it's like it's like, Okay, I'm rooting for him,
like love the pies, like really good good stuff there.

(46:28):
I like, it's so I don't know. This movie like
really reads to me, like this movie went through five
million drafts because it was like her character like regresses
throughout the movie. Because before she leaves for cop Academy,
she you know, her parents are being prejudiced towards foxes

(46:48):
and here like you know, you gotta be carefully. Here
is repellent. And then she says, well, I was bullied
by a fox, but it was a mean person who
happened to be a fox. And then rabbits are jerks too, Yeah,
like anyone can be an asshole, and you're like, okay,
like Children's movie, I see where this is going. But
then like later in the movie, she I mean, I

(47:09):
guess this is maybe reflective of reality. Becoming a cop
sets her views backwards. Yeah, and she becomes more prejudice
as the movie goes on, right to the point where
she almost fox mess Jason Bateman, who's a black guy.
But she looks to constantly reorient your brain of like right,

(47:33):
saying right, I don't know, very stressful, right, She like really,
even after she's become friends with this fox, who she
again had this like prejudice against up until this part
of the story, and he had shared with her this
like very traumatic story, which is like that part of
the movie like does move me to tears where there's

(47:55):
a flashback where he's like, I wanted to join the
Junior Rangers and but I was the only predator and
I thought I was going to be welcome, but then
I got harassed and assaulted by who I thought were
my friends, and they put a muzzle on me. And
I learned to accept who I am and if if
everyone's just going to see me as a sly, sneaky

(48:18):
little fox, well then that's who I'm gonna be. And
he like tells her this story and like it opens
up and she's like, oh my gosh, that's awful, and
then she becomes like at a press conference, she's like, yeah,
well spouting eugenics like she's it's so wild, right, So,

(48:43):
like that scene is like bizarre because the movie is
suggesting that racism is the result of a press conference
from one rabbit and also like one sheep's actions of
shooting blueberry looking paintballs at animals and not like systemic,

(49:07):
like a systemic widespread problem. Yeah, I mean it's like
this movie is like really determination to not interrogate systemic
anything is kind of like I mean, but they kind
of do with the mayor's office, but for some reason,
like they're willing to go for it there right, but nowhere,
not in like right, not in law enforcement, but in

(49:29):
within this allegory. What is Jenny Slate's end game so
to like what what is also like Otter Tens a predator,
He's like smaller than the right, so like what's the
what the fuck? It's so I mean, I feel like
one of the And this is not a new point.
This point has been made about Utopia many times, and

(49:51):
I know that we have a famous tweet from a
friend of the show, Kate Young, about this. But the
huge issue, like one of the huge issues is like
implying that like in this world there are predators in
prey and conflating minorities with predators that have been integrated

(50:12):
into society like plays into so many super predator right,
like how how did they? I mean, this is classic
five white dudes in a room like uh, this is
the fucking Hillary Clinton c SPAN press conference where she's
like super predators are like mindless killing machines. These black
teens are like mindless killing machines or whatever. M fucking

(50:35):
Hillary Clinton, um, girl boss. And so then the whole,
the entire conceit of the movie is set up between
predators and prey like you're already like on fucking third
real city. They're like, you know, and and that's like
one of the many. I mean, I think it's like
maybe them. It's hard to say what about this movie
is the most egregious, but like that, like taking that

(50:58):
logic and then making it can likely true in this
world is so fucked Like, yeah, the I wanna so
the tweet you're referring to, So Christina Holland at American Wombat,
which is an amazing handle, tweeted a couple of years ago.
I think a big problem with kids allegories for racism

(51:18):
is it's like the Green people and the purple people
hated each other just for being the other color. Isn't
that silly? And not the purple people kidnapped the green
people and treated them like livestock for hundreds of years.
So that's the original tweet. And then friend of the
show Kate Young quote tweeted it and then just said

(51:39):
glares at Zootopia, which is like very much the problem
with this movie. It's ignoring the coherent enough to be
guilty and bad. It's missing so many points. But like right,
but I mean shout out to Kay. Yes, yeah, this
movie is like incoherent in such a frustrating way. But

(52:03):
like casting like the white coated animals question mark, because
that fluctuates throughout the movie wildly, but like I think
ultimately who we are supposed to believe for the white
coated animals as prey is like well, no, like it's
just I mean we should say that Jason Bateman's partner

(52:23):
in crime, he's like the blackest dude I can think of.
It's it's tiny Lester, who is like Debot from Friday,
and you know, he's like the big, bald, scary dude.
He was a very deep voice and in the movie
he's the tiny little fox with big ears or I
don't even know what kind of animal that is. But
he's like pretending to be Jason Bateman's character's son when

(52:47):
they do their whole like scam scam. He rules too,
because the second he the second the cop comes around,
he's like not fucking with her, and then when Bateman
decides to help the cop, he's like, I'm not fucking
with you. The movie him. Weaselton was like, oh, so
now you're helping a cop. That's why we okay. Weaselton

(53:10):
rules because he calls that out off the rip. And
then later when he gets like Mr Big is like
going to kill him, he's like dangling him above like
an ice pit. And Weaselton's still like, buck you for
hanging out with cops, like, I would never fucking I
would never funk with the fun with cops, Like he's
just down to die for the coups, Like Weaselton's the
hardest due in this movie. He's also selling an array

(53:33):
of DVDs that are referencecing shreking references to other Disney
movies that we're coming out around this time, such a
but they're all like the animal versions of it. My
favorite one is obviously Meajuana, so it's Mowanna as a cat.
I like this part, so that's the best part of
the movie. Perhaps his iPad was tight to that was

(53:57):
some cold design animal bands stuff. Yeah, but um, let's
you know what, Let's take a quick break and then
we'll come back. God all right, we're back. Now where
do we go? So, there's there's so many places we

(54:18):
could go. Here's where I would like to go next.
So the movie repeatedly uses a word that is a slur.
I will use the word to identify it. The word
is savage. Again. The movie uses it repeatedly to refer
to the animals who have gone wild and have become
violent and attacked. So, uh, this word is a very

(54:44):
offensive slur toward indigenous people in particular, I will say,
I guess in the movie's defense, the conversation around this
word being a slur was not a very mainstream conversation
at the time of this movie is like making and release.
It's been in kind of like more recent years that
this conversation has been brought to the forefront of cultural consciousness.

(55:08):
But even so, one of the many elements of this
movie that aged extraordinarily poorly five years right, um. I
asked a friend of the cast, Jess Merwin, their thoughts
on the use of this word in the context of
the movie. I said, you know, is it still offensive
in the context that it is being used in this movie?
Or is it just a word that should be eliminated

(55:31):
from our vocabularies entirely. And this is what just had
to say. Within Western culture, the concept of savage exists
in a binary with the concept of civilized, the idea
of one cannot exist without the other in opposition. Even
though in the film the word isn't being applied to

(55:51):
human beings, this binary still presents itself in the behavior
of the animals being labeled savage. They are violent, they
are volatile, they are quote other. When we associate violence, volatility,
being uncontrollable, being other with the word savage, we perpetuate
the harm that the word was intended to do when

(56:12):
it was applied to black and indigenous people. So basically,
for any listeners or anyone who's just not aware this word,
don't use it. Thank you, j Yes, thank you so
much Jess for your time and thoughts. So but yeah,
I was counting. The word gets used in the movie

(56:35):
no less than a dozen times, possibly more, just like constantly,
especially like after the halfway mark, which and and it's
the way it's used is to kind of reinforce this
gigantic failed metaphor. That is, like the word is used
to apply to predators, which again is like a hillary

(56:58):
the Hillary Clinton. It's infuriating and and I wanted to
get into that part two. I don't know, just like
as this movie was going on, there just more and
they were I feel like every time one metaphor would
kind of sputter and fail, they would start another one,

(57:18):
and that one would also be really poorly realized and
not good. The last big set piece of the movie
that's trying to comment on something unclear is the what
is it that howling the night howers right where they're implying,
you know, it's And there was a lot written about this,

(57:41):
like not right when the movie came out, but like
for some reason and eighteen I think people rewatch this
movie and they were like, now, hold on a second.
Is Utopia trying to comment on the drug epidemic in
the US? I'dn't even consider that. Uh well, the arguments
for that include the including this like very throwaway goofy

(58:06):
breaking bad reference and like basically implying that the government
is bringing drugs into quote unquote predator neighborhoods and turning
them into like, uh, I don't I don't know what
to but you know what I mean? Like, and so
I think that in the third act of this movie,

(58:28):
they're trying to like comment on the crack epidemic and like,
but again it's so poorly realized and so like in
this movie, like last minute like that, you're just it's like,
what are you doing, guys, Like execute one thing correctly,
like truly one thing. They simply can't. Wow, Yeah, that

(58:49):
doesn't occur to me either. It's now that you bring
it up, it is very wild. This is from it
was like referenced in a review of this movie from
Birth Movies Death Um that did come out at the
time that the movie came out, but yeah, just sort
of reference that. It's like it appears that like, yeah,

(59:11):
the government is bringing drugs into certain neighborhoods and then
you know, using the media to inspire fear and hatred
among everyone else, like in the quote unquote in Utopia,
World Prey. This movie is so funny and then like
and on top of that, the depiction of media in

(59:33):
this movie I also found to be very bizarre. Where
media is obviously very very up for criticism, but the
way it's used here is primarily Oh, the only reason
that Judy really fumbled and couldn't stop spouting eugenics and
her one press conference is because the media was twisting

(59:53):
her words and like they were like media training, but
she immediately forgot and they like and it's like implied
that like the media is misreporting on police press conferences,
which I wouldn't say is the problem, Like it's it's
I don't know, it's just incoherent. Like every issue they

(01:00:17):
try to tackle, it's like I don't know what you're saying,
but I think I disagree, And then other words it's like,
oh yeah, I definitely disagree. But like that was another
moment where I'm like, what does it take, like believe
cop press conferences, Like what is the takeaway from that?
To quote ma wanna, what is the lesson? What is

(01:00:38):
the takeaway? Don't miss with Mauie when he's on the breakaway.
This movie needed more Maui problem. One thing I think
this movie gets pretty accurate is um, dirty cop bullshit
because Hops pulls out all the tricks, but that's not
the movie. It's like presenting her as being like, look

(01:00:59):
how lever she is. She's so resourceful, she can get
stuff done, because like I think maybe one of the
reasons this movie was requested so frequently, especially like shortly
after it came out. Is because it's like an example,
I mean, very much on the surface. You could look
at this movie and be like, oh, it's a female
character who is really motivated and really active, and she's

(01:01:21):
driving the narrative and she's smart. She undergoes an arc
and she got more racist. But like she literally almost
shoots Jason Bavan at the like at the end of
the second act, just for like because he kind of
scared her and she almost one billion dollars. So anyway,

(01:01:51):
what was I saying, Um, oh, you're taking to highly
motivated a female character, like a surface feminine so so
I I guess it has that going for it. But
as we've pointed out, that female character is just like
girl Boss cop Lady, who is like doing crooked cop ship.

(01:02:12):
But the movie is not. Actually, the movie's intent is
not to be like, look at how crooked cops are.
It's like, look at how resourceful this clever bunny is
well and and like Jason Bateman Fox with Nick nick
Nick like says that once, like when she's in the
middle of doing a cop crime, he's like smart a

(01:02:34):
little bunny. It was like, what the fuck is happening?
Do we, um, did we hit on all of the
cop crimes? She did? Because we we did? Reference we
should run it down. Yeah, do you does anyone have
a comprehensive list? Because there there was a bunch. Okay,
So she tries to um. Well, first of all, she
profiles Gideon in the beginning, before she's even a cop,

(01:02:55):
she's on her fucking Kyle Rittenhouse ship and she just
fucking sticks her no into some ship that's not, frankly
her business. I mean, I guess her friends were getting robbed,
but you know, don't snitch. Um. So she profiles Gideon,
and then when she gets to Zutopia, she profiles Well.
First she's like, hype to give out parking tickets. Yeah right,

(01:03:16):
She's like hundred, I'll give out two hundred by noon,
and this is supposed to endear us to her. And
if it's a parking ticket in a city like Los Angeles,
for example, that then costs somewhere between like sixty five
and seventy five dollars. And she's so she's like basically
robbing the civilians of Utopia. She doesn't want to help people,
she just wants to facilitate. Trying to exactly from everyone.

(01:03:42):
Then she um tries to basically blackmail Wild after he
explains his scam, she pulls up she has tax forms?
Did she Why does she have those? I don't know
to blackmail him with I know, but well, I guess
she planned ahead. That was like a premeditated black if
she already had the forms. She tricks Wild into jumping

(01:04:04):
a fence, um so she can use probable cause to
also jump the fence and break into a car to
get evidence. I mean, Mr Mantchez is basically having a
mental health episode and she just calls more cops to
the scene to funk him up, which historically has never
goes well. Yeah, like she does so many cop crimes.

(01:04:28):
And also like there's just like these kind of I
mean again and maybe this is more like kids movie stuff,
but it's like kids copaganda, so it's complicated. But there's
like multiple moments where she's fired and then she's just
like no, I'm not, and then she's not, and then
at one point Jason Bateman is like no, she's not,
and then it's like you can't. You don't even work here,

(01:04:51):
what are you talking about? Like, but he will also
we should point out that like Bateman is like, you know,
he's the criminal or whatever, and then when he reforms,
he just becomes a cop. So like that's like, that's
like the station that all goodhearted animals and Utopia aspire to,

(01:05:12):
the pipeline from criminal. Before he meets Hops, he could
never dream of being a cop. It's like, catch me
if you can. When he's like, first, I'm a con
artist and I'm so good at that that I'm going
to help the cops learn about con artists. And that's
what happens at the end of the movie. They both
fucking suck. They suck so much it's so like, it's

(01:05:34):
so frustrated, like and I feel like the way that
Idris Elba's character is used is also like he's one
of the only black voices in the cast, and he's
cast in the police chief role, which is, at least
right now, is a very popular trope of like the
black police chief who just kind of unquestioning lee holds

(01:05:57):
up the establishment. It's just, I don't know, the fact
that this movie has no interest in interrogating policing at
all is just so like mind blowingly frustrating to the
Elda thing. Elda thing is so modeled too though, because
he has such a specific like South London accent and
like voice. Yeah, if they want, if they needed to

(01:06:19):
like get a black cop, like he's like the not
he wouldn't even be in like my top one voice list,
you know, right, nothing. It's just so like I just
feel like it's yet another example of like this movie
just like no one is in the room who is
thinking it through? And the little tiny bit of research

(01:06:41):
they seemed to do was to ask one person who
she taught them everything, and then they went to Disney
World to congratulate themselves. Oh my god, Oh wait, one
more thing. Um, there's a fucking you'll ever seen like
the TikTok or Instagram videos or like cops play basketball

(01:07:04):
with kids, like like you know, we're community policing. We're
like we're cool. You can talk to us like we're down.
You don't know what I'm talking about. It's just like
bad cop propaganda to be like, look, we're actually cool,
but it's like pretty popular in the social media age.
There's like a thing at the end where she plays

(01:07:24):
soccer with these two kids. Did you catch that? Like
she's walking into city off She's like hey kids, check
this out. Hello, fellow kids, it's me a cop. Um. Okay,
here's a thing I'll say. Ready, So, Gideon the Fox
speaks with a thick accent from somewhere in the American South.

(01:07:45):
I don't know. Um. So, there's obviously a tendency to
assign like American Southern accents to someone who has like
a backward way of thinking, someone who has like regressive politics.
I myself have been guilty of doing this in the past.
But it's like it's basically doing what the movie is

(01:08:06):
trying to say, Hey, don't do this, don't make sweeping
generalizations about people. Don't like lean into stereotypes. And that's
what they're doing with that character. I had that as well, Wow,
look at us, look at us. Um it is a
small thing, and I feel like it is something that
it's not even like inherent to animation, although animation tends

(01:08:29):
to be a worse perpetrator of most tropes because it's
such an exaggerated form. But yeah, I mean I feel
like that's something we see all the time of the
person who is wrong quote unquote, even though he's like,
don't be a cop, but like he's wrong. Uh, you know,
he shouldn't have hit her. Okay uh. I think the

(01:08:51):
person who is wrong is given a Southern accent, and
the person who is right has a coastal accent even
though they live in the same place, And like, why
is does everyone here have and why does everyone here
have a different accent? And it is truly I think,
like just assigning heroism and nice good ideas to people

(01:09:13):
from the coasts and if you have any kind of
any I mean really like most regional American accents are
applied to people who you're not supposed to think are
as smart as someone who talks like they you know,
like work in Manhattan or whatever the funk, you know
what I mean. So yeah, that's just yet another weird

(01:09:37):
l this movie voluntarily takes one billion dollars. Another one,
I would say is the movie leans into some fat
phobic tropes and stereotypes with the Clawhouser character and that
he's constantly eating, He's like very sedentary and out of shape.
The one time he has to like chase after someone

(01:09:59):
he like is not able to physically move very well.
Just different things like that. And there's there's the movie
being shitty yet again in in a different way. I know,
like we've we've like referenced a lot that there's just
like so many individual moments in this movie where you're
like the moment that you've brought up, Matt where um,

(01:10:22):
where Judy quits being a cop at the end of
the second actor, we're like, let's call it. We did it.
Movie done. But again how it's like just like such
a nasty feminism that is being expressed here that is
extremely white and in service of all things capitalism, where
it's like the framing for her quitting being a cop

(01:10:44):
because she, in the world of this movie has ruined
the city is like, but what about your dream? Girl?
Like they're like, girl, don't come up on your dreams
to fucking ruin society. You're like, what, but the movie
believes that the movie believes that she would be morally

(01:11:05):
wrong to give up on her dream of ruining society,
Like it's just so misguided and so like, I don't know.
And then Eadris Elba says, the world has always been broken,
that's why we need good cops like you. And then
she's like, I quit and then she's like, no, you're right,
I'm going to get a new cop on the forest

(01:11:28):
and recrude. I'm recruiting people, yea, so um, but that
sex Bole they go to fucking kicks ass. That's like
where I would hang in Utopia. I was trying to
think of, like what micro climate I would want to
go to, because that sequence where she first she takes
the train, gotta give it up. That part she's cruising

(01:11:53):
through all these climates. You've seen Utopia, which looks very
much like Asgard from the Thorn movies, by the way,
and I was like, yeah, I wonder where I would live.
I think I chose the jungle, but then once I
saw the sex Spot, it's wherever that is that your
number one favorite part of the movie. I mean, no,
I'm never a part of the movie is when Weaselton
is just like I'm ready to die, motherfucker, like I

(01:12:13):
will never help the cops like fucking kill me. But um, yeah,
the sex Spot part is sex Spot rules. Yeah. The
world building in this movie from a strictly visual point
of view, not like cultural or societal, but just like visual.
It's like very pretty and cool. I loved I loved.
Was it called Rodentia or something where it's like where

(01:12:37):
it was just a bunch of dollhouses. I liked that.
That was fun, the filmmaker. So, speaking of kind of
the world building, the filmmakers consulted experts such as zoologists,
who were like, this is how animals move and what
their fur looks like. I just like that shouldn't be
priority number one, right, That's what I'm saying. Like, But

(01:12:59):
they went so far as like consult specialists from the
Americans with Disabilities Act who helped construct a city where
like a two inch little rodent would live in the
same city as like a twenty seven foot giraffe. Um.
They also consulted h VAC system designers to figure out

(01:13:20):
how to, for example, build a tundra neighborhood next to
a desert. But they just only talked to that one
lady about how to do racism. Like that's all sounds
pretty cool, but there's one there. Oh god, that's so.
I mean, it's like and that research. I'm sure that

(01:13:41):
that was really fun and interesting. It's like, you gotta
do the whole movie. You can't just do Yeah, it
could have been awesome if they had just gone with
a different story. I mean, the setting is awesome. Um.
I read that. I forget which of the directors this was.
But basically when he was pitching to John Lasseter, who
obviously John Lasseter, but he was like, yeah, When I

(01:14:04):
told him we wanted to do a movie about talking
animals who wear clothes, John Lasseter reportedly picked him up
and like hugged him and was like we green Light
was just laughing because just like picturing a grown man
picking up another grown man and like an excited of

(01:14:25):
animals and clothes, which does happen all the time. The
design of Zutopia reminded me a lot of Richard Scarry's
Busy Town. Oh. I really loved it when I was
a kid. Oh, I can't wait to show you. It
was just like it was a city where all animals
live together, and they wear clothes, and they have jobs

(01:14:46):
and um, and they, as far as I can remember,
don't attempt any themes that are way out of their
depth like Zutopia does. I do feel like with this
movie it's kind of another example of and we've talked
about this, I think from a lot of different angles
over the years, but like taking a massive societal ill

(01:15:10):
like racism and prejudice in general, and making it like
one person's fault and then being like and then they
either learned from their miss like they learn and then
they say, let's all get along. And then one person
goes to jail and we're not going to talk about jail,

(01:15:30):
like and then problem is solved. And that's like, what
because one rabbit solved the problem? Because one rabbit became
more racist? Like I firmly believe she became more and
more racist as the movie was going on. But like,
by sending Jenny Slight to jail, racism is solved. Is

(01:15:50):
the logic that this movie is operating under. I also
think it sucks that it's like the only other like
dominant female character in this movie is like the most
evil person in the world, which you know it happens,
but but it's a there's just I feel like we've
we've seen this. I always go back to I don't
know why, I always go back to the Girl with

(01:16:11):
the Dragon tattoo, and we talked about this, but like
there's a character who assaults Lizabeth Salander in that movie
and he is like this, you know, a symbol of
all misogyny. And by defeating this one man, we have
we've we've fixed it, and nothing bad is ever going

(01:16:31):
to happen again. And I feel like that's like there's
a version of that going on here with a different
theme that it's just like attributing a systemic, centuries millennia
long problem too. It was one person who's responsible, well,
like refusing to even reference any of the issues within

(01:16:52):
the system even though the movie is about Yeah, I
mean the conspiracy goes to city Hall, so they they
they're me at the system right like and city all
and cops get along. Like that's another like, I don't know,
I don't know. Does anyone have any other thoughts? Um,

(01:17:17):
good for Shakira. Good for Shakira. I will say that
a far, far, far better animal movie with a climactic
showdown between the protagonist and the villain that takes place
in a natural history museum is Paddington One. Wow, I

(01:17:39):
didn't think of that. You know what else is like?
Um Tailspina, Yeah, but it's it was like Jungle Book
characters but they live in a city. Oh, I wow,
I haven't thought about that. In Becky Whoa it was
like on Disney Channel. Um, yeah, it might have been
on regular STV too. I can't remember Starday Morning Cartoon.

(01:18:03):
Think whoa. I wonder if that holds up. It sounds fun.
I think I remember they're doing a new Disney plus one. Okay,
well that's the law. You have to every piece of
intellectual property must be rebooted. And if it's anything like Utopia,
if it'll be Mark capaganda billion dollars. Yeah. I part

(01:18:28):
of me is like, what about though, like the target audience,
and is this, despite its many problems, is this movie
an okay, jumping off point for young children to learn
about racism and prejudice. It could be. I don't want
to like undermine that as a possibility, but like, I

(01:18:50):
wouldn't show this confusing and inconsistent so never mind scratch that.
I mean, and it's again, it's like listeners if you know,
we're not parents, so like, if your kid loves this movie,
we would be interested to hear. Yeah, personally, I don't
know this. This one is too messy. I wouldn't want

(01:19:13):
my kids first introduction to these themes be this movie
because this movie doesn't know what it's saying. Yeah, very true.
It passes the Bechdel test though apparently between Jenny Slatee
and Jennifer Goodwin iconic Wow, what do they talk about
it's like sticking together talking at cops. Us. Little guy's

(01:19:36):
got to look out for each other, and she's like
woman's solidarity, the cop and the evil mayor. Um. Okay,
So as far as feminist, that is feminism five nipples.
As far as our nipple scales zero to five nipples.
Based on how the movie fares when examining it through

(01:19:57):
an intersectional feminist lens, I'll go with we'll get with
this movie a half nipple because, uh, the main character
is a woman, and um, she's you know, people are

(01:20:20):
sexist towards her question mark. Um, but again that this
is I just because this is where we find out
you've been friends with Officer Hops the whole time. Um,
so yeah, obviously I'm having a hard time justifying this.

(01:20:41):
Um I'll give it half nipple because of weaselton character
and the horny, horny horny animals at the horny horny
sex spots, and those are the only redeeming things. Judy
shut up. She's just so happy if the movie half
a nipple. He was like, you should have been five.

(01:21:08):
What about at the end they're driving like a militarized tank, Like,
oh my god, and they just fucking pull over the
slot dude, like, come on, and even though he was speeding,
it's implied that they're like, we'll let you off the
hook because you're my friend. Oh yeah, Oh, I thought
baby was like hyped to throw the book at I

(01:21:30):
don't know, hard hard to say. I'm giving this movie
no nipples. I really didn't like it. I did. I mean,
there are like small characters and like small scenes that
I liked, but I just like, I don't know, this
movie was such a bummer to watch. It's such a
bummer that it came out so recently. I just think

(01:21:51):
it's just like, and I know I sound like an
asshole saying this, but I think it's neoliberal trash and
I gets useless and I don't like it. Um Weaselton
was fun. I laughed at the slop scene and the
Shakira song was Okay, it's slightly better than okay. Anyway,

(01:22:14):
how about you if you think I'll give it one Okay,
I think it's a problematic and neoliberal trash. But if
you aren't thinking too hard, or it's on in the background,
or you want to just drag it with your friends,
it's pretty good looking I mean visually, the world building
is kind of fun. Just talk over it one nipple.

(01:22:39):
If you are not watching it, what you're saying. If
it's un mute and you close your eyes every time
there's a cop on screen, it's actually awesome. Now I'm
just doing the thing of like thinking about how I
really liked this movie like five short years ago. Sure,
but it's like it's yeah, like we said, it's a
testament to how things are progressing, and it's fun to

(01:23:01):
reflect on that. This is this was this this, this
one broke my brain a little bit. This was a
tough This was a tough prep. But I'm I'm glad
we did it. Thank you for Thank you for bringing
it to us, Matt, even though it sounds like you
kind of didn't want to. I mean, thanks for whoever
requested it. Because I was thinking, I didn't realize it

(01:23:24):
would be such a rich text to dive into. Yeah,
I didn't either. I genuinely did not know what this
movie was about. I was like, they're at the zoo.
It's it's Madagas, it's that movie. We bought a zoo.
We bought a zoo. We should cover that movie. I'm
kidding I don't know what I mean people sentence, but

(01:23:46):
I've been wrong before. Well that yes, thank you so
much for being here. It's been a delight. Thanks so
much for having me. Where can people follow you on
social media or if there's anything you'd like to plug? Um, yeah,
I don't really post too much, but it's Matthew Mixon
at Twitter and Instagram. Oh, actually, can I point my
mutual aid thing? Absolutely? Okay, Um, yeah, we have a

(01:24:10):
small mutual aid group and um, we're not very big.
But if you go to the links on my my
link tree or whatever, all the money I'll just like
or you can buy like Amazon stuff like socks and
tents and blankets and stuff. It's pretty cold in l
A right now. We just go out every couple of weeks.
And yeah, if you send me money, it'll go to
tents and cool stuff that people need. Or if you

(01:24:31):
just want to buy stuff off the Amazon links. Um,
I really appreciate it. Hell yeah, so amazing. And if
you can follow us on social media at pecktel Cast
on Twitter and Instagram. You can subscribe to our Patreon
aka Matreon that is at patreon dot com slash pecktel Cast.
It's five dollars a month. It gets you Tube bonus
episodes every month, plus access to the entire back catalog

(01:24:56):
on a hundred episodes. We're finally this month U Matreon.
We read books. We're doing the Jane Austen adaptations. You
want to stop bugging us about um and Okay, we're
not going to make a habit of reading books, so
don't get used to it. Strongly anti book, anti reading podcast.

(01:25:16):
But just this once we each read a book. We
bought a zoom more like we read a book. Uh,
that was awful. You can get merged at dot com
slash the effectel Cast, where I will I will commit
to Shrek shreky in. I have a list of so
many shirts that we've said we would design over the years.

(01:25:39):
Ultimately I have not designed a new shirt in two years.
Since that's on me and now I uh bye, good episode, everybody,
Bye bye