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June 27, 2018 39 mins

Dr. Hayes realizes he must cultivate more ambitious therapies if he expects to win the fiscal support of a large research group. Long term patient Charlotte grows jealous of the doctor’s obvious fascination with the new patient, Karen.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The control group contains scenes of realistic violence and graphic sexuality.
It is intended for mature listeners. In the field of
psychiatric medicine, it was an exciting time, a time of

(00:21):
innovation and discovery, a time when mental health institutions struggled
to redefine themselves, to become something more than repositories of
the sick. Unorthodox methods and aggressive therapies were not only permitted,
but encouraged. This is a record of that time. This

(00:42):
is the control group. Get me up, I got a
fine Morgan. Don't don't try to speak here, let me
help you. Sit there, you go, No need to stand

(01:09):
up until you're ready. Can you drink some water? Hmm? Here,
just try a sip. It's okay, it's okay. I take
it slow. You have all the time in the world.

(01:31):
Do you want to hold you out? Try it on
your own. That's it, careful, something's wrong with my hands.
It's perfectly normal. It just takes a little while for
your brain to regain control over your body. Take a

(01:52):
few minutes and let your body regain its equilibrium. That's
all from what therapy E c T. Yes, Hello, Charlotte,
I thought I would check in on the new girl,
aren't you sweet? Charlotte? Do you mind helping carrying back

(02:12):
to the ward? I really need to get back to
my station. It'll be my pleasure. Thank you, Charlotte. I
suppose I owe you an apology. I know I could

(02:34):
have warned you about E c. T. But what would
have been the point? I didn't want to frighten you.
Some of his treatments may seem cruel, but Dr Hayes
is a brilliant man, and no matter how it may appear,
he really does have our best interest at heart. I

(02:58):
can help you back out to the ward if you'll
let me. You don't have to talk to me if
you don't want to, I'll understand well, Charlotte, Yes, dear.

(03:19):
How often does anyone leave the hospital discharged? That's right?
Not very often. But some of the women were placed
here by their families and will probably never be released. Others,
the schizophrenics, the m d S, manic depressives you can
tell by looking at them, will probably never leave. Not

(03:44):
every illness has a cure. What about you? How long
have I been here? That's right? Two years a bit more?
My god, how do you stand it? I should ask
you the same thing about life on the outside. Things
are so peaceful here. It's a sanctuary. It really is.

(04:10):
E c T can be intimidating at first, but it
neutralizes all the all the So when do you think
you'll be discharged? I could probably go tell Dr Hayes
I'm ready and need to open the game. Then why
don't you Why would I want to? Karen? Stop looking

(04:32):
at this as a punishment. This is a hospital, we're
receiving medical attention. Why can't you appreciate what he's trying
to do for all of us. I'll get out when
Dr Hayes thinks I'm ready. But you see, he's a perfectionist.
He has very high standards. I guess, like mids architecture,

(05:02):
you might be you an on the campus of the university.
Perhaps the better curtis need of British nobility. But this
place is intact the Central State Hospital at Utanan, a
city unto itself. The hospital is situated upon one acres

(05:22):
of land and has its own fire department, plant, Doctor Hayes.
Dr Hayes, yes, yes, there's something wrong. It's nothing wrong.
It's just that we have a limited amount of time
in which just second time today and can you kill

(05:42):
it less hang Central State. I think it would be
a more constructive use of our time to discuss the
particulars of your grant renewal. M sure. Since I only
have a few minutes to visit today, I hope to
discuss the results of your latest work. What's gone on
in the last ninety days, what do you expect in

(06:03):
the next ninety And still have some time to talk
about new directions, new directions, anything you like. I read
with great interest your paper abolishing Consciousness through e c T.
Do you plan to publish? Yes, I'm trying. So far,

(06:24):
I haven't had any luck severe delusion, paranoia, schizophrenia. Have
you found that the treatment has any positive effect upon
the patient? Well? Or is it simply neutralizing the symptoms? Well,
neutralizing the symptoms of mental illness is a positive effect,

(06:45):
I think to a degree. But the goal should always
be the elimination of the cause of this erratic behavior.
If your objective is to neutralize it seems you could
just prescribe some thorizine and get the same effect. The
point is, we know the effect of e c T
applying more of the same as in research. We know

(07:06):
it flattens the brain waves, but it doesn't really do
anything to attack the problem. I'm not sure I agree.
We ask have you been doing anything different since receiving
the s i H grant then you were doing, say
six months ago. Well, it's allowed us to enlarge our
staff and increase the frequency of treatment because the impression

(07:26):
on getting excuse me for interrupting the impression on getting,
is that you're applying s i H funding towards the
general operational costs of your port and not applying it
towards specific new research. Being in the medical field, I'm
sure you can appreciate how cautious you have to be

(07:47):
when introducing new forms of therapy. Appreciate research that aligns
with s i H objectives. We appreciate results has come
from this research. We would appreciate it if you would
focus on new research. It is not our business to

(08:10):
underwrite a facilities day to day operations. I'll tell you
now that if that's how you plan to spend the
next ninety days, we won't be able to continue to
support your work. In New Canaan understood decided CCT is
so blunt it's like performing surgery with an axe rather
than a scalpel. It lacks precision control. Here's my problem

(08:35):
with e c T. You say you want to how
do you put it, abolish consciousness? If you want to
clean out the brain by by by wiping the slate clean,
you risk of raising all the valuable data store inside
the knowledge, the memories. You see where I'm going here,
don't you? I think, sir? And what do you put

(08:57):
in the empty space anything? Have you ever thought about
the name of our organization, the Society for the Investigation
of Human Ecology Human Ecology. I think of the mind

(09:17):
as a garden. E c T is like a tiller
that churns the soil. It wouldn't it be better to
have pulled the weeds, as it were, selectively remove the
harmful growth is crowding out the healthy thoughts, so that
we could then harvest the fruit of the mind. But

(09:37):
when you say harvest, I don't understand. Maybe gardening who
wasn't the best metaphor I could have used, But hopefully
you get what I'm saying. Instead of erasing the contents
of damaged mind, let's try to open it up, look around,
decide what's worth keeping and what should be thrown away. Yes, yes.

(10:03):
And if you decide to till the soil and mulch everything,
you make the ground fertile again. You have an opportunity
to plan a fresh crop, a healthy crop in its place.
Have you planned for that? There are ways. I'll send
over a paper from one of our members. How old

(10:24):
are you? Doctor has met two is not so old.
You still have time to do something great. You just
have to think like a twenty six year old again.
Remember that sometimes when a doctor has spent too much
time in the same word as vision narrows, this is

(10:47):
his touch with his ambition. Let's roll back the odometer
of your career. Hayes give you a second chance to
to do something something big. H good afternoon, ladies. In

(11:19):
about thirty minutes we'll all walk over to the dining room,
so please visit the wash room now if you need
to tidy up. In a moment, Dr Hayes will be
coming through the ward with a very important guest. I'll
expect you to be on your best behavior. And yes,
I'm looking at you, Irene. Thank you. Hi, Hello, Karen.

(11:46):
Glad to see you've gotten your land legs again. Yes, ma'am,
can I help you with something sure. Maybe, um, would
it be possible for you need to make a phone call?
I mean it is there like a procedure where I

(12:08):
can request to make a patience are not allowed to
use the telephone. I'm sorry, Carrie, oh that there must
be some way to communicate with the outside world. What
you know, we need to speak to someone outside the hospital.
Ask Dr Hayes in your next interview. He will consider
the request and take a proper action. Okay, it'll take

(12:31):
five minutes, two minutes. Well, the the phone is right there.
Come on, Karen, if you need to speak to someone
outside the hospital, ask Dr Hayes. And all right, I
heard you. Like the convulsive y it's just the first

(12:59):
step care no process because it's the most aggressive and
reliable and neutralizer of conscious thought affect the short term
and treating every patient every forty eight hours puts a
strain on our staff, not to mention our electric bill. Yeah,

(13:22):
so you and Cameron up in in Montreal. He's having
excellent results with sleep therapy. Ever heard of him? The
society is um well acquainted with Dr Cameron's research, brilliant mind.
So encouraged by his success. We've stalked up on phena
barbitall and have set up a sleep room right here

(13:44):
in New canaan first one in the southern US. There's
one patient there at the moment, derotic, excitable, prone to
burst of hysteria. You're out a sleep on would you
care to see it? Dr her Ace, You are just
full of surprises right this way. I only have one

(14:17):
patient under the sedative right now. She's three days in.
Certainly looks peaceful. It's a deep, RESTful sleep, I'm sure.
And we'll be constantly modering her vitals and adjusting the
dosage along the way, and you'll keep her under the
next round of VC T is Friday. We'll wake her up,

(14:39):
feeder and treat her and put her right back under.
And you hope to replicate the success of Dr Cameron's experiment.
That's right. And then yeah, I'll caution you not to
dwell too long in another man's shadow. Cameron's were is remarkable.

(15:01):
We'll give them back, but it's his. How will you
leave your market? What will be your treatments? How will
you apply them to make a name for yourself? Food
for thought? That's all, if you don't mind my asking, Dcores,
is there a reason you apply your more experimental therapies

(15:23):
to women. Uh, we've We've found, I've I've found, and
I think the research supports this. The female mind is
more supple, more malleable than the male, which tends to
have developed a stronger resistance, whether it's culturally enforced defense
mechanism or just the genetic proclivity. The jury is still loud.

(15:47):
I mean, I mean, if you prefer that I treat
male patients, I suppose I could just started. No need
to be defensive DRS. It aligns with what all are
just seem to have found. And where would medical research
be you without the lab mouse, white, complacent, obedient. Just

(16:10):
remember that the lab mouse has been conditioned to be
the model patient. Just remember that at a certain point
it will be necessary to apply your methods to unless
cooperative subject. This is an interview with patient Myers Caring.

(16:39):
The date is October. Also present as ward head nurse
vir Tree, Billburn. It's okring, how we've been getting along.
You're same to have come through your first DCT treatment. Okay,
if you feel sore, Charlotte or one of the girls

(17:02):
can show you some stretching and bending. Why do you
call it easy? T stands for electroc convulsive therapy. Why
don't you just call it shock treatment because that's not
what it is. We use ECT to help wipe off
the mental slate. What do we call deep patterning gets
sort of the clutter and noise. But if you want

(17:25):
to call it shock treatment, be my guest. Any other questions.
We have a variety of therapies in our medical arsenal,
each one tailor to the specific needs of the patient.
Yesterday you asked me about a timetable for your release.

(17:45):
The truth of the matter is there are no shortcuts.
The treatment takes time. But to encourage the process, I
need two things from you. Your cooperation, not just with me,
but with the nurse is the attendance to the other patients.
And the second is honesty, absolute honesty. If you help me,

(18:12):
I can help you. Since we last spoke, I've had
a closer look at your file, to be honest, with
a thing in your file that don't add up, and frankly,
I'm not quite sure why you're here and not in
a prison facility. I do intend to take this up
with the state, but before I do, I want to

(18:32):
get your side of the story. Okay, you were in
a hotel room when Ronald Grant was pushed through a window, actually,
let's be honest, thrown through a window to his death.
I didn't throw him through the window, obviously, but I'm
sure you can shed some light on the circumstances of

(18:53):
the incident. Why were you there? We were there on
a date, doctor, You know why we were there, that's right,
So why be quite about it? A date? Beyond having

(19:15):
a sexual liaison for money? Was there any ulterior motive
in taking him up to the room? Robbery? Is the
motel a clip joint, Get a man drunk, cold cock,
and then take his wallet. Only Ronald Grant had a
tolerance for liquor and sex. You're debate and someone else

(19:37):
does the dirty work, the other dirty work. There was
no one in the room but Ronald and myself, and
I didn't touch him. Just how much did he pay
you not to be touched? I mean, he touched me.
You might say that was the whole point of going
on afterwards after your romantic date had ended as well.

(20:02):
Grant so dissatisfied the experience that he just jumped through
a plate class window. Didn't open it first, didn't even
open the blinds just just to a rhyan start, and
that's exactly how it happened. Swear to God. Did the
police ever find the person they were looking for? Who
your accomplice? Or were you the accomplice? How does that work? Exactly?

(20:29):
When you were arrested, you told the police you had
to get out of jail free card if they would
just call the number on the card. What was that about? Uh? So?
Is this just something the police fabricated for their own amusement?
Did they call the number? Whose number was on the card? Karen?

(20:51):
And if they called the number, why did you stay
in jail card? That's ridiculous in a way. It doesn't matter.
The details of the crime are not pertinent your treatment here.
Neither is your guilt or innocence. I honestly don't care
whether you did it or not. But what does matter
is your willingness to cooperate, to be honest, fact is pertinent.

(21:16):
That's what I need from you, and that's what you're
refusing to provide. Every question I asked, whether it's big
or small, you you refuse to answer. You don't even
bother to make up. Wise, how are we going to
have a productive interview session? If you won't particip because
all you want to ask me about is the fucking crime,
because that's the one thing you refuse to talk about.

(21:38):
You want me to bear my soul. I'll bear my soul.
Get out your notebook. I'll tell you about my shitty childhood,
my creepy cousins, my abusive uncles, even my my school teachers.
I'll tell you about running away from home at fifteen,
the first time I pop pills, lost my virginity, turned
a trick, got my face pounded in, got my arm
broken by some angry john. I wouldn't let defy, only

(22:00):
in ways you couldn't imagine. I'm telling you about the
things that made me who I am, for better or worse.
I'll tell you what I had to do to stay
alive on the street, the people I had to depend
on for safety. But I won't I won't tell you
about what happened in twelve So of all the things,

(22:20):
of all the things that I'm willing to share with you.
If that's the only thing that you want to know
about me one night, you can save your fucking breath. Well,
I mean, ask me about me, about me, and I'll
tell you the Please please, Okay, I guess the battle

(22:48):
lines are drawn. This concludes interview with Myers Karen m h.

(23:17):
Hello again, Hayes. I thought we had covered everything. Thanks
for coming out. I really appreciate you coming by. And
I can only stay a minute. I need to get
to the airport by six if I'm going to get
back to ACA tonight. It'll just take a minute. I
would have met you at the airport, but it's hard
for me to get away. It's not a problem. If
it's important enough for you to call me back, I
figure it deserves my attention. It is, I think it does.

(23:39):
I mean you'll want to hear it. Uh. I've put
a lot of thought into what we were discussing last time,
and I have some ideas, some forward thinking ideas that
I think the society might be interested in having me explore.
Spoken like a proper twenty six year old age. H,

(24:00):
I'm all ears. Tell me if we think of the
mind and analytical terms, no no, no, no no no,
but the bear with me, bear with me, tell me
if I'm on track. The psychoanalysts must base is treatment
on what the patient is willing to share through memories, dreams,
and then the details they choose to share, right, that's right. Well,

(24:23):
maybe the patient wants to share every detail, but they
are limited in their own memory. For every dream they share,
there's another one that they're unable to recall. So the
psychoanalysts cannot treat the patient until they're able to break
through this filter and determine what the patient is really
Thanking funding Freudian research, you know that doctor is suppose

(24:47):
we remove the filter, break down the patient's mental resistance,
whether it's one they've erected or one their subconscious mind
is erected, and we look inside, We crack open the
head and get the unfiltered truth that lies within. Imagine
the possibility if a doctor were capable of breaking down

(25:09):
that wall. There is no limit to what he could achieve.
And that's the kind of a doctor of the Society
for the Investigation of Human Ecology would support to the
absolute limit. Tell me more. It's a great idea in theory,
but I need specifics. I have a patient who's harboring

(25:30):
a secret. She's tough, sharp, fully functioning, but uncooperative. In
that patient's name, oh that um, let's just call her Karen. Okay,
you said something about a secret. A very big, secret
criminal one that will put her in state prison if

(25:51):
I can get it out of her. The police couldn't
make her talk, the state prosecutor couldn't make her talk.
I think I can make her talk. In fact, I'm
sure if are you sure you should be involving yourself
in a criminal case only to degree that benefits her treatment,

(26:11):
I can crack her open. I know I can crack
her I that is, by combining several of the newer,
more aggressive theories we can we can retrieve a very specific,
targeted piece of information. Wow, who is this new doctor

(26:35):
Hayes who stands before me as a man of ideas?
Consider your grand proposal approved. I'll have the necessary signatures
by the end of the day tomorrow. Record everything. If
it works the s I h will want to know
every detail. I will, and if it doesn't, we wouldn't
want to know a thing about it. H understood, it's

(27:00):
a lot of resources to dedicate to a single case.
Have you considered the mechanics of a more widespread application
of your therapy. I haven't yet. I'm still refining the method.
It's never too early to think about where you would
take this once it's perfected. While the s I G
appreciates the value of labmize, we want to support therapies

(27:21):
that can be applied on a broad spectrum of patients
to accomplish a variety of objectives. I don't see why not.
I I see this as just the beginning. I'll be
honest with your haste. I'm starting to like what I
see in you. The society was starting to have its doubts,
but I'm glad I stood up for you. Put her there.

(27:46):
Let's get started. Oh, just one last thing, I hope
you don't mind. The Society for the Investigation of Human
Ecology does not assign projects or even recommend specific areas
for SERVE. We simply invest in projects relevant to progressive psychopharmacology,
psychosurgery and research and share in the knowledge that results.

(28:09):
And that's it. Abo'll do it. M M. Good morning, ladies.
We hope you had a relaxing weekend on behalf of
Dr Hayes and the nursing staff. We look forward to

(28:30):
a week that is peaceful and productive. Our e C T.
Psychle will get underway momentarily. Please tend to any personal
business you need to finish up before we get started.
It's Monday, September and it's going to be a glorious day.

(28:53):
Good morning, miss Wilbourne. And how are we today, Charlotte?
Oh fine, that's great. Mhm. Is there something more on
your mind? No, No, everything's just fine. Okay. Well, as
you can see, I've got a lot of paperwork to

(29:14):
sort through before Monday and e c T is about
to begin. Yes, Monday morning is well, Monday morning is
my time for one on one time with Dr Hayes remembers.
Has there been a schedule change because you said you're

(29:36):
about to start ECT and I don't know if there's
enough time. There's been a slight change of schedule, Okay, Okay.
Being a new patient and someone who's been put here
by the state, Karen is going to command more than
her share of doctor Hayes's attention for a while at least.

(29:57):
How is that fair? I beg your pardon, I said,
how is that fair? Charlotte? Please don't take it personally.
Don't get upset. I'm not upset. I'm sorry, I'm not upset.
I'm I'm really I'm really not okay, I'm not. Just

(30:20):
bear with us, Charlotte, you'd be doing both Dr Hayes
and myself a great consideration, if you'd just be patient.
I only want to help. I know that Charlotte and
you always are so helpful. I just don't want to
ear no, not at my own expense. Why don't I
talk to Dr Hayes later today? Tell him what a

(30:45):
generous thing you did by giving up your interview times
so that Karen could get the treatment she needs. Let
him know that this is a sacrifice you were willing
to make sure. How would that be, I guess that
would be. I'll do it as soon as the word
it's clear after e C t Okay, okay, how are

(31:09):
we doing? Burder? Just fine. I've almost sorted through today's
schedule and wondered if Charlotte, yes, will you excuse us please?
Of course, sorry, thank you doctor. She's worried that Karen
has taken her place on the interview schedule this morning.

(31:32):
We can't let us start getting overly sensitive again or
we'll never get her off the ward. Thank you for
your patients. Ladies. We're ready to begin, and we'll start
with Roberta and Carol. Please come up a joke back

(32:01):
Stanley Brown, Asian managers here with me, Are you ready
for the job? Favorite? And I love how um relationship
with your Yeah? All right, well when you to sign

(32:24):
what you want to say to me, come on back.
If you think you can seduce Dr Hayes and get
what you want, forget it. He's a good man, better
than the likes of you. Do you know about good man?
I know a good man when I see one. I
am married to the most wonderful man in the world,
and I'm privileged, privileged to be the patient of one

(32:47):
of the finest doctors in the profession. You know him
that well, do you? I do? Stop laughing? Why are
you laughing? You can put your cloths away, Charlotte. I'm
not gonna stee you your beloved doctor away from you.
That's not all You're welcome to him. I'm just playing
the game. What game? The survival game? We do it

(33:12):
all the time on the outside. Figure out how a
man wants you to act, and then react accordingly. I'm
not saying let him own you. Just make him think
he owns you, and by yourself the freedom to operate independently.
Don't let you change you. Don't let any man change you. Oh, Karen,

(33:43):
You'll never get out of here with that out of
wake up, Buttercup, I figured out more about your doctor
Hayes in two weeks than you have in two years.
Two years, Charlotte, listen, I know doctor Hayes better than
he knows himself. That is ridiculous. Educated man, good Christian man,

(34:07):
that's right, bursting at the scenes. Someone like him won't
come out and say what he wants, but he'll drop hints.
He tries to find a way around the moral and
ethical barricades so his conscience can stay clean while his
ding dong gets nice and dirty. Go on, oh, you've

(34:35):
noticed something, Harry. We don't have much time a brute
like graph. You know exactly what he wants, so you're
always prepared. But a man like Hayes, he keeps his
desire hidden, buried so deep inside of himself that he
doesn't even know it himself, and when it finally starts

(34:57):
to use out, it won't come out through ordinary channels.
You're disgusting just because you're a whore. Don't try to
seme your doctor Hayes with raking woman. The most dangerous
creeps on the street aren't the pimps and the drug addicts. No, No,

(35:20):
the real degenerate is the do Gootter, the White Knight,
the Reforma. You think I'm saying this to be cruel
to hurt you? Why else to warn you? Stupid? Elaine
and Charlotte please come up. Don't call me stupid. Okay,

(35:44):
poor choice of words, but I'm only trying to explain
to you for for your Hey, Charlotte, come on, we're waiting.
Come on, Charlotte, Charlotte, you're going out there. You are, Charlotte,

(36:11):
It's not like you to keep us waiting. I'm sorry,
but I was talking to Karen and she up on
the gurney. What happened, Karen, Karen, she was saying terrible
things about Dr Hayes, comparing you. Oh well, she was
making terrible insinuations about you. She was implying, you're going

(36:34):
to start on this again. No, no, I think she's
up to something. Listen, listen. I think she's going to
try and trick you. Now, Charlotte, I am trying to
be helpful. I know you are, sweetie, by down on this. Okay,
we're set. Give Karen and Neva please come up here.

(37:09):
Pending it all in your letters. Car That's why a
special my churn already. What were you saying to Charlotte
just now, you know, girl talk? She seemed upset? Is
that my thoughts? I won't have you hurting her. Okay,
we won't allow it. Jesus right, Charlotte, what's going on coming?

(37:37):
I'm sorry? Okay, that's hop up on the gurney. Yes, ma'am.
What was that all about? What what were you saying
to Charlotte? That head her so upset? Really? I think
Charlotte was feeling a little jealous. Her emotions got the

(37:59):
better of her. Would you say that's accurate, Karen, Yes, ma'am.
Uh huh wow. Let's keep the female hysteria to a minimum, Shelly, yes,
Doctor brite down on this, okay. Set The Control Group

(38:31):
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Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

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