100 Men >, The Rock…But FOR REAL 05.06.25

In episode 1858, Jack and Miles are joined by host of ScienceStuff, Jorge Cham, to discuss… Trump Wants To Hire Brigadier General Francis X Hummel To Reopen Alcatraz, AI And the Future Of Buying and Selling Your Free Will, Finally & Most Importantly: Where Do You Fall On The 100 Men vs 1 Gorilla Debate? And more!

1. Trump Seems to Have Decided to Reopen Alcatraz Because of a Movie
2. Here’s why Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy ordered Alcatraz to close in 1962
3. ‘Intention Economy’ Could Sell Your Decisions—Before You Make Them
4. Beware the Intention Economy: Collection and Commodification of Intent via Large Language Models

LISTEN: Never Enough by Turnstile

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I want this on official record. Actually, yeah, why.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Don't you Actually marriage is falling apart in real time
and you just don't.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Oh man, I feel like a child in divorce court.
You ever listen to the show Dough Boys. Yeah, for
like two years there it was like listening to a
couple getting a divorce and then they like pushed their
way through it. It's really an amazing Wait when was that?
They just like were always like, oh, shut the fuck up.

(00:35):
So great, you're so mad at each other all the time.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
At least, it's not like I remember at the end
of Bodego Boys, when you could just tell like there
was just like this passive anger just simmering sometimes and
like Barro would talk too much.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Let them? Is that too much? Sorry? Was I talking
too much? Again? That is like such divorcing couple enters.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I guess I was talking too much again.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I don't know if you know this about me, but
apparently whenever I speak, it's the most annoying thing anyone
can ever.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
I don't know if you know this about me. Here's
a fun fact about me, is that when I speak,
it's apparently like nails on a chalkboard. Right quote somebody
who was that? Honey? Who said that? Who was that?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, there's only two of us talking to each other
right now. It's like, who are you even bringing in?
Is this third party? A second ago? No, No, there's
I just saw a bunch of like, for whatever reason,
all the articles I was being like that, I saw
through that, like on the feed of like our articles

(01:47):
I look at, so many were about like, like cheating,
the definition of cheating is evolving. Here's how to know
if you're doing it. And another one was like relationship
burnout is real. Here how to get in front of it.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Well, I'm happy to say that we are as podcast
as co host in an open relationship where you.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was co hosting The Dollar
over the weekend.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Did you really No? I was gonna be like, damn,
I gotta listen to again. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
They're like, is it okay?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I'm like Pat Jackson in his own world, asleep at
the Weekly.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
If jack cared, he'd tell me I couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
He actually just has a cup chair in the podcasting
studio where he watches me podcast with other ghosts, where
he listens to me guest on other shows, Hello the
Internet and Welcome to Season three eighty seven, Episode two

(02:50):
of It's a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
This is the podcast where we take a deep.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Dive into America's share consciousness. And it is Tuesday, May sixth,
May the sixth be with you. May this sit yeah
fifth Day?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah hell yeah, fort Brother, the sad people out there
who want to be sick anyway. National Foster Care Day,
National Teacher Appreciation Day. I'm a shout out Judy Clawson,
my first music teacher who cultivated a love in music
in me that's still to this day stays with me
and I'm forever grateful. So I just want to shout

(03:29):
you out because I will never forget you. Miss Boston.
National Crape Susette Day. This looks like some shit. Donald
Trump's dad was. Have you ever had a crip susette?

Speaker 1 (03:38):
You know what?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
It looks like a bunch of like origami with orange slices,
like the crape looks like shit doing this photo. Also
National Beverage Day, National Nurse's Day.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Shout out to miss McDonald. What did she teach my
seventh grade English teacher? First person who is like, you're
good at writing? Helps you read. Yeah, finally help. You're
good at reading, you can do the jack.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
You're gonna can do it at a kindergarten level.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Now, finally a way to go back to Hugh. Thank you. Well.
My name is Jack O'Brien ak. And did you think
this fool could never win seven seven hundred pound gorilla
hitting like a chimp. I got the taste of blood
on the stairs so far away, and I'll probably never
sleep again from what I've done today. Don't you know

(04:23):
that I'm still standing? I lost I only lost one
of my limbs, looking like the soul survivor next to
fight a million kids. That one courtesy of David Lesser
on the discord A little ej Elton John, Wow, Yeah, Hey,
you know we're still out here. We're still talking about

(04:45):
one hundred men versus one gorilla. And I do feel
like I feel like I just got that that fight
in me. I got that dog in me. I wouldn't
quit even though I had I was missing all my
teeth and multiple limbs. That's personally where I see it going.
But I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Host, mister Miles Great Miles Pray A k a k.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
He'll probably start the fight by sleep and boo, I
need I need one hundred men. Almost call your dudes.
I had to do the harmony. I'm fighting names down
and out Africa. Give him a beauting like he's never

(05:28):
shout out David Lesson, a David Lesser with multiple I
mean we're very predicta doubles. Nah, give us, give us
the gorilla fighting the gorilla.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I've I got to say, I was telling Jack privately,
I've really I've had an evolution on this wild like
this is. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about later
after hearing from many learned people, I've my my perspective
has shifted quite dramatically on this, on this this thought experiment.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
But we'll get to that later. Well, we we have
somebody with us today, Miles, who I think will help
us shed a little bit of light on this subject.
A writer, cartoonist, podcaster, a former roboticist who has written
books like We Have No Idea Guide to the Unknown Universe.
His new podcast, Science Stuff is Answer Is answering fascinating

(06:21):
questions every episode, like his hypnotism Real Do Our Pets
Lie to Us? I've been saying this for years. I
know a bird is a liar.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
That bird is having fun up there, that's fun.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Do you really have to wait thirty minutes to go swimming?
Which is going to be my first question for him,
Our dear death experience is real. It's a great. Listen,
We're thrilled to have him back. Please welcome back to
the show. Or hey child, hello, hello friends, hello dailies
or what do you call your audience hykes hikes?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
They call them the status whis actually all right, yeah yeah, don't.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Try to slip that by him, just because he's a scientist.
Miles just like to wait, he's miles. Try to pluralize
status quo as status quhi.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
And then what was statusy's status.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Whoa yeah that I quote?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, oh wait that is You're I'm going to leave
you No, no, sorry, I was just making statusy. Yeah,
it's it's status is quot so I wasn't. Yeah they
want attorney's general, Yeah, it was attorney general style.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
That's the other on things like that. Yep, yeah, yeah,
well great, or hey, we're thrilled to have you back. Okay,
can you just do you really have to wait thirty
minutes to go swimming? Because I have a multiple times
in my life not waited and then you're dying, I think,
but maybe I'll die in my fifties from it, from
like stocking up, it's like stop, like a sleep that

(08:00):
you've built up. It's like too much time swimming after
with just fifteen minutes after eating. No, yeah, we've all
been there. You know. You're a kid. You want to
go back in the pool.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
It's hot, you want to play with your friends, but
some adults tell you you.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Can't do it.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, you have to wait thirty minutes. And for me
this was kind of personal because my aunt was a
doctor and she would take a swimming all the time.
She'd be like, no, you have to wait thirty minutes
after eating, and so in this episode, I really wanted
to know the answer yeah, which is apparently you don't
have to wait thirty minutes after eating to go swimming,
but you probably should.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, yeah, probably should, but you don't, like.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, you're not gonna die, You're not gonna get crams.
Cramps are not related to what actually Cramps are related
to what you don't eat, Like if you don't eat
enough electrolytes or sugars, they think maybe that's one cause
for cramps, which is super interesting to me that scientists
don't know what causes crams.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, it's like one of those it up, we don't know, Yeah,
seem real. It seems like it's one of those a
public health policy question like where it's like, I mean,
you could probably get away with it on your own,
but like as a public pool policy, if you don't
want people throwing up in your pool or you know,

(09:17):
cramping in a giant pool, then like it's probably a
good policy to have for a whole ass public pool,
you know.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's probably just recommended just because you know,
you're you're kind of flat when you're swimming, so your
stomach kind of gets turned around.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Oh yeah, it's like the zero gravity stuff that space.
Yeah yeah yeah, and also like your body is time
to digest, you know, right right right hard disagree on
that one where I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, I've taken a bite at pizza and then immediately
done a cannonball.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
With the pizza in your mouth. I probably have done that.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, I come up still chewing it.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
It comes a little soggy, but you know, they're sacrificed.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
When I was exhaling as I dove in the water,
A lot of marin Eric came out of my nose.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
What what kind of pizza was that? And it's a
tomato pie? Yeah? Well, all right, we're thrilled to have you.
We're gonna get to know you a little bit better
in a moment. First, we're gonna tell the listeners a
couple of things we're talking about today, where we are
going to check in with President Trump planning to reopen Alcatraz,

(10:28):
which hell yeah, both a cool story that is happening.
He a man of many wants and you know, just
the his these ideas drift past him. It's truly it
feels like our national conversation is just based on who
he talks to that day on TV. Yeah, or what
which When was the last time he saw the rock?

(10:50):
So well, we'll talk about that. We also just want
to like kind of dig into some of the kind
of interesting questions that you've been looking into on your podcast, Warge.
Our near death experience is real? Is hypnotism real? Let's
be honest. We're going to talk a lot about whether
one hundred men could defeat one gorilla. Be honest, here,

(11:13):
talk about the real status static Qui, y, Yeah, exactly,
the real zeitgeist, the real statuses statuses quo. I am
curious though on the hypnotism thing, Miles. You you brought
up the point that that might relate in interesting ways
to the intention economy that AI is supposedly about to
unleash on all of us. Basically, it knows us so

(11:35):
well that it can just steer us imperceptibly and like
sell our future behavior, our intention to do things to people.
So I wanted to get your thoughts on that as well,
especially as a former roboticist. But all of that plenty more.
But before we get to it, Jorge, we do like
to ask our guest, what is something from your search

(11:58):
history that's revealing about who you are? Oh my goodness,
that I can disclose in public or want to that
you would not want to, but you just feel like
pressured because you know you want to make good podect
go for a little bit embarrassing but not too embarrassing,
Yeah yeah, or humiliating whatever whatever is your earth flat.

(12:22):
This is gonna surprise you guy that that would be
both embarrassing and potentially career ending for me. That's why
you take the big risks on this podcast. Yeah, no,
right now, I mean really deep dive into this episode
we're doing about are we living in a simulation? So

(12:43):
I don't know if you've heard this question, Like there's
this idea that maybe we're all really just inside of
a video game of some alien or advanced civilization. And
so I've been googling a lot. How much computing power
would it take to simulate a human brain? Mm hmm, yeah,
like can you do it on your phone or if
you need like a planet sized computer to do it? Yeah,

(13:04):
because we're seeing now that's a really good point that
I hadn't thought of in the context of the evolving
conversation around AI, that you know what, one of the
limitations we're running into with AI is that, like Sam
Altman is like we're having to burn down like three
rainforests tonight instead of two because people keep saying please

(13:25):
and thank you to the It was like, it's limited.
It's a computing power. It just requires to draw much
energy to train these things. So yeah, like if you're
going to run a hyper realistic simulation that fools billions
of people across the planet, like why, uh, like what

(13:48):
must what energy source must you be using you know, yeah, yeah,
is the answer depressing how little computing power it would take? Uh? No,
the answer is uh, depressedly large? So yeah, I mean
how many hamsters on a wheel? Good? Are we talking
about at least one hundred gorillas? Uh? That's somebody you need?

(14:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Wow, might easier like Okham's raiser. Might
just be that we're just doing this on our Yeah,
just why earn millions and millions of uh you know
what whatever the unit is for energy? When you can
when you can just have just be happening naturally already. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, but you know, it turns out like the computer
chip in your computer or your laptops that has enough
transistors pretty much to match how many neurons you have
in your brain.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
So we're kind of close. But the question is like,
how many actual transistors do you need to simulate one neuron?
Which might be you know, a thousand or or a
ten thousand, who knows, And so that's what I'm deep
into searching. Nice, So are you a you believe that
it's a simulation. I think that people I'm not super Yeah,

(15:09):
people will, yes, yes, people will find out.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
The short answer is no. The short answer is probably. Actually,
the short answer is probably.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
So. How when you're approaching a question like this, how
much of your research is just googling what does Elon
Musk say? Because like that's when I'm approaching a scientific thing.
I'm like, all right, well, let's check with richest guy
aka by the transit of property, smartest guy, what he say,
and then I just go with that for like ninety

(15:40):
percent of what I believe. Yeah, is that not how
you do research?

Speaker 3 (15:45):
There is a lot of googling at first, but then
the gurgling turns into like reading academic papers, and then
turns into like talking to experts by phone, like calling
them and recording.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
You use the woke phone to call woke experts on science?

Speaker 1 (16:02):
WHOA what is uh? What's something you think is underrated?
I have something that I thought I thought was overrated,
but now I'm convinced it's underrated. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
So, as you know, I'm part of my career has
been as a cartoonist. I draw cartoons, comics, I illustrate
books for kids and adults. And I always thought, like,
you know, cartooning is so specific, you need like you know,
black lines, and there's so much style and personality in
them that AI is never going to be able to
compete with, like you know, Bill Watterson or a famous
famous cartoonist. But so I always thought I was a

(16:38):
little overrated. But now after the whole Studio Ghibli sation memes,
have you guys seen that where people are creating photos
of themselves in the style of Studio Ghibli, which is
this famous Japanese animation studio. Uh Now, I'm like, dang,
I'm glad I switched over to podcasting for my.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Cartoons.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yestually recently, my daughter has been like illustrating funny illustrations
for this book project she's doing in school, and she's
just like talking to the AI online like, hey, can
you make me a drawing of this a teenage girl
looking this way, holding this in the style of this
with this as a background, And it's like boom there
it is, Yeah, as good as anything I could ever draw.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
How do you look at that as someone who spent
a lifetime like honing a craft, like being able to
cartoon and draw, and then see that something like that
that you've spent hours doing has kind of just been
like transformed into a text prompt that could put something
out like do you.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Like what do you tell your kid?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Are you like, h you know, maybe you know it's
also fun like picking up a pen and drawing stuff too,
Like that's great.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's not surprising. I guess I'm
a roboticist by training, and so you know, to me,
like humans, we were just like meat robots, you know,
and so technically anything in meat what could do, a
metallic robot could also do. So I'm not like surprised
that it's happening she can do it. But yeah, I

(18:07):
just really encourage people to draw. It's just just such
a fun activity. It's relaxing, it's good for your mental health,
it's good for your brainstorming. I USEDID a lot for brainstorming,
and and so I help people then lose the ability
to draw.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, I've definitely I've like I started, I was
doing coloring like adult coloring books recently because I realized
how much how much I really enjoyed like that sensation
as a kid of like just ye the lines and shit,
and I'm like, oh, this is this has many therapeutic
applications for me, even though it's not necessarily I'm you know,
trying to no one's bought any of my colorings. Yeah,

(18:46):
you know, but then it's like, you know, I spend
all this time coloring in the lines. Then I feel
like that magic is lost. If it's AI, I feel
like it's more impressive when I told him, like, no,
I with my own mind, I stayed inside the lines
when I color.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
What is some of you thinks overrated?

Speaker 3 (19:02):
What do I think it's overrated? This might be a
little controversial, but I've been watching The Last of Us
on TV, you guys fans of the show'm.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
I played the games, and I know I know what
people are reacting to based on my history with the
video game. But I haven't watched season two yet. I
watched the first season. I really like the first season.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Okay, all right, Yeah, I feel like it's getting a
lot of critical attention, but I'm just like, you know,
it's it's like The Walking Dead, just with a little
more money. Yes, sorry, not a scientific topic, just last time.
I'm a big zombie enthusiast.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, and did you like how how long was Walking
Dead able to keep your attention? Because I like, after
the Frank it was that first season, After that Frank
Derabad season, I was like, well I can't.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
I don't know, man, I was gonna check it. Yeah, yeah,
good question.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
They lost me like it may be season five or six,
I think, yeah, yeah, it happens.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Okay, Yeah, what's your seminal? Like, what's your what's the
peak of zombie storytelling in for you? Oh? Boy? Uh.
One that maybe people haven't heard of is this Korean
teen high school drama called We Are All Dead on Netflix. Yeah,
teen drama but with zombies, and it's super grim and

(20:19):
super sad. But really, all of us are dead us. Yeah,
all of us are dead is the name of it.
Do you see Kingdom? That was another Korean zombie thing. Yeah,
my my Spause watched that. She's a big fan of that.
I think that they lost me on the costumes, you know.
For me, the zombie appeal is imagining the apocalypse and

(20:40):
how like how how I would react and how anyone
anyways reacting? Right trained to Bisson, they really do it
pretty well. Yeah, that's also a banger. So go to
Korea for all your zombie zombie shire zombies, k pop
and food there also and devices. All right, well we'll

(21:03):
get to some of your other thoughts on AI stuff
in a bit first, let's take a quick break and
we'll come back and talk about some news. We'll be
right back. And we're back.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
We're back. We're back. God, we're sober. We're back at ninety.
We're back to nineteen fifty five. The Birdman Alcatraz is there.
The biggest creeps in America are locked up on the rock.
But yeah, Trump made just another as and I announcement
that probably won't happen because it's so stupid and unrealistic,

(21:48):
but anyway, here it goes. He wants to reopen Alcatraz,
the federal penitential that closed in nineteen sixty three. On
Sunday Night on Truth, he announced quote build and open Alcatraz.
For too long, America has been plagued by vicious, violent,
and repeat criminal offenders, the dregs of society who will

(22:09):
never contribute anything other than misery and suffering.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
When we were more, when we were.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
More serious nation, in times past, we did not hesitate
to lock up the most dangerous criminals and keep them
far away from anyone they could harm. That's the way
it's supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
No longer will we tolerate right outside of San Francisco. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
No longer will we tolerate these serial offenders who spread filth,
bloodshed and mayhem. Now he's like, I am now ordering
the Department of Justice Bureau of Prisons to reopen and
substantially enlarge and rebuild Alcatraz to how's America's most ruthless
and violent offenders enlarge in Ireland?

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
I feel I feel like there's some Freudian context there,
make it bigger.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I think I feel like it's a lot bigger, bigger,
and like like the girth of the eye island should
be big and it should go high. It should be
longer than it should be girthy. Yes, that's the hands
of justice need to be bigger.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Right, exactly truly, And everyone's like, what the fuck is
he talking about?

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Large? In large? Why are you looking, sir? Have you
all ever been to Alcatraz? Oh? Yeah, yeah yeah, fourth grade? Yeah,
but it's it's like it's not in good shape right, No,
it's fucking crump. I remember we were.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
I remember being bummed out as a kid because it
was so fucked up looking like I thought you'd be like,
oh ship bro a because I went before the rock
came out, and you know, you just had all these
like ideas of your like, oh, man, like do people
get eaten by sharks who try and get off? It's
like it's all fun, and then it's just like the
most run down federal concrete prison you've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's like stuff dripping exactly. That's how we'll show them
that they Yeah, I was gonna say it's gonna cost
a lot of money to upgrade, but maybe maybe the
point is not to upgrade it. I have a lot
of money now that nobody is spending any money on
toys because we can't get them and we're.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Not living a thirty dollars economy anymore. But I mean again,
you're like what prompted this? Just from reading that text,
it sounds like a mix of frustration at judges for
enforcing the constitution and being like, yeah, due process is
at a minimum here or what the fuck are you thinking?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
And like you can't just you do. I'm not going
to do the process. You do process.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Okay, that's fine, and you can say that, sir, but
the my order still stands. You cannot just disappear people
to El Salvador, Like this is some kind of fucking
Like really.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
You heard about the like terrifying prisons and El Salvador
is like we need one of those, one of those
going up here. Well, by comparison, it makes out the
dress look good.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
I think maybe right, yeah, maybe, I mean, but I think,
you know, like the other part is like the polls
are shifting in all the wrong directions still, like there's
another pole, like the holes came out now, Yeah, like
it's all going down. He's losing his grip on reality
and his bass, and I think especially with the economy
and immigration being like he's scoring particularly low. Marx, I

(25:11):
think reminding people that they live in some kind of
fucked up combination between Thunderdome and The Rock, Like he's
hoping to get people back in their back in touch
with their cruel side again, because he was like, when
we were more serious, we didn't hesitate to lock up
the most, Like you know, he's clearly trying to evoke that,
and I guess using the thought of Alcatraz to get

(25:33):
people excited. But again, this is like something that most
people don't even remember operating, and more people remember The
Rock the movie.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, like he's aware of like the average of what
everybody thinks, you know, like I just feel like he's
tapped into like whatever version of reality was on television
in the nineteen seventies, and like that's what he's drawing on.
And so like the Rock is most famous prison, and
he's like and it's they say it's impossible to escape

(26:02):
because the water is full of sharks. And it's like, meanwhile,
if you're like paying attention now, like they people they
do like recreational swims out to the rock and bag.
It's a thing that people do for fun. Maybe he's
gonna ripose Nicholas cage b our next National Tree. I think. Well.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Later on, he said, and now I am calling on
Brigadier General Francis X Hummel to be in charge. And
someone told him that was Ed Harris's character in The
Rock and from a harrow violent outburst when he said,
I want General Humble now. But yeah, and like to
your point, Jack, it does feel like someone left TNT

(26:42):
on the TV on all weekend near Trump and he
may be caught an hour of the Rock. But it
turns out someone on Blue Sky may have an even
more accurate prediction here as to what happened. Someone said
last night on WPBT and Palm Beach, they broadcast the
nineteen seventy nine Clint Eastwood film Escape from Alcatraz. Oh

(27:03):
my god, Trump was in Palm Beach that night.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Oh and that's that's like you've never far into television
a time. So that's definitely what happens. Definitely this is
a good one. They say, we could escape. He's really
good at distractions, right, like you know, the pull, like
you said, the pultar shifting in the ront direction. For him,
people are starting to get all this bad news, so

(27:29):
he's like, what can I say that we'll get people
to talk about something else. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, it's like funny because it's like that's his instinct
and he doesn't even like, oh, that's actually pretty good.
Now they're not talking about all the ways the economy
is falling apart and how shipments have declined and all
these other myriad of problems. But also he gets to
say a pretend thing that feels really nice in his brain.
I mean, like everything he like thinks up has some

(27:56):
direct connection to pop culture or film because a he
can't read, so no new ideas are entering his brain
like that. But then also like you you couple that
up with the fact that like you know, he remember
he's like obsessed with the gold in Fort Knox too.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, he just it's truly like a just icon based
view of the world where there's like, yeah, one famous prison,
one famous like bank, or like gold vault, and it's like,
you know it also the stuff that was around and
popular in the seventies when he was like coming of age,
you know, wasn't there a Nicholas Cage will be about

(28:31):
Fort Knox maybe, uh, the Constitution also, he loves to
talk about the Constitution, that Nicholas Cage did steal the Constitution.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
I mean also then and at the end of the
rock that you know they claim to see how JFK
was killed if you remember on that micro feel is
obsessed with that.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Some could argue that he became president just so you
could find out that give me the Nichols Cage.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Maybe that's why he has the because I think he
has a copy of the Constitution or maybe it's the
Declaration of He has one of those seminole founding documents in.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
His behind it, yeah, behind his death. Yeah, and he's
like maybe he's like pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Nicolas Cage won't be able to get his little fucking
Coppola hands on it.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
You know, he's a nayless cage.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
His whole career is just him saying he's obsessed with
him being a Coppola too, just like a weird fact.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
He's like, he's not.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
That's not his real last name. It's Francis Ford Coppola's
nephew RFK Junior.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
How are we going to approach the face off question?
I want to take his face and put it on mine.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Which is funny. Maybe Trump could ask his friend Secretary
Brainworm why his daddy shut the place down in nineteen
sixty two when RFK was the Attorney General. Mistake because
again for people don't realize, like why Alcatraz shut down.
It cost way too much to operate since it was
on a fucking island and everything there wasn't even fresh water,

(29:56):
like a yeah, yeah, they had to bring tankers of
like million gallons of time just to like replenish the
fresh water supply on Alcatraz. It was also falling apart
to the point where they're like, it's just going to
get easier to escape, Like people are literally just like
scraping away at the wall and swimming away like this
isn't this isn't going to work, and also it can

(30:17):
only it could only hold three hundred and thirty six inmates.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Is that real? Yes, definitely worth whatever A billion dollar
project that he's going to be putting together to try.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, they're saying, like a half billion will probably do.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
And you can only put people who don't know how
to swim because otherwise right right exactly, yeah exactly, I mean,
and it's basically like shark infested water, which like we
now know like sharks don't want to eat us, so
like you just don't just don't get eaten by a shark.
You pretty easy to just swim across the thing and
not get eaten by sure plus, or you could just

(30:53):
keep the prisoners fed and then they can't swim until
after three minutes.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Exactly, you don't want to swim after that, you just
date you don't want Yeah, you can we feed them
every thirty minutes to prevent them from swimming away. Oh okay,
Just we're combining all kinds of myths.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Now. It feels like the next thing he's going to
attack is quicksand he's going to be like, we need
to end quicksand in the United States, Like it feels
like it's on the same level of like what a
child in the nineteen seventies thought was like cool and
scary and a big deal.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I was wrong, Yeah, I was wrong about the border wall.
We actually need to have a border of quicksand there
we go. No one will be able to pass. That's
my new idea. I'm again like he's at this rate,
he should be talking about storming Area fifty one pretty soon.
Oh yeah, unless he has the key.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Doesn't he have a doesn't he have the keys to it?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
I think he just hasn't seen a movie. I think
he needs someone he's to show him Independence Day so
he can realize what kind of treasures they got locked
up in there.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Just checked out this new movie Independence Day. All right,
let's talk Let's talk AI real quick, because this is
something that I think ties into some of the hypnotism
stuff that you covering your hypnotism episode. But basically I
always remark on like how our modern technology seems designed

(32:13):
to rob us of free will, and like how it's
so much depressing when you like look around and just
everybody's glued to their phone in just like on a
college campus or in a cafeteria, just nobody's like looking
at each other or interacting. Everybody's just at an feeling
table every night. Yeah, like fifteen oh, no, like fifteen

(32:33):
years ago. If you just like transported somebody to this point,
they'd be like, well, this looks like a fucking dystopia.
Like everybody's just glued to their phone.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
And it's like the beginning of Shot of the Dead, right, Yeah,
kind of likening our phones used to zombiism.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah. So when on last week's episode with doctor Carrie mcnernie,
you you had asked, like, is this AI going to
be used to fuck with us? And more specifically like
market to us?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Right, because we're giving it all kinds of information about
like what we like, what we want, how we want it,
how to get there, how we even problem solve. It's
so much more specific than like I spent ten minutes
on this website. It's more like this person wants to
figure out how they can increase their vertical jump at
the age of forty. And now you know a lot

(33:25):
about me and what my beliefs are ABU my physical reality,
and I could probably be marketed supplements or something like that.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
And it knows how you talk, and therefore it knows
how to talk back to you, which I guess is
actually very successful or very important factor when it comes
to like teaching people, like how to manipulate people is
basically like if you can talk to them using some
of the same kind of language and like it's like
mirror field of ideas that they have, then yeah, like

(33:53):
that these are the things that they're excited about. That
a lot of the people who work in AI, Like
so doctor Carrie like reached back out and was like, hey,
you should check these articles out, Like that was a
really good question, and the articles are terrifying. One is
like a MIT like long academic paper that Jorge, You'd
probably be better at deciphering than I would. But it's

(34:18):
This Forbes article is interesting because it kind of presents
it as like here's an exciting wing. Yeah yeah, yeah,
as they put it, doing their best to hide their boner.
AI assistance could start manipulating you into making decisions and
then selling your plans to the highest bidder before you've
even consciously made your mind up. AI agents, from chatbot

(34:40):
assistants to digital tutors and girlfriends could exploit the access
that they have to our psychological and behavioral data and
manipulate our responses by mimicking personalities and anticipating desired responses.
The fact that they even have the word manipulate, it's
like the fusing. Like all of these technologies that I

(35:03):
think the social media, like feeds and like the algorithms
that they use, I think people just like took them
at face value of like it's going to show me
pictures that I want to see and people weren't like
And they're working with the people who designed addictive gambling
games to like figure out how to make it so
that you never want to stop and like can't stop

(35:25):
looking or interacting with the thing. So it's troubling. And
it's like there's all sorts of really sophisticated ways that
they're you know, manipulating or convincing or doing all these things.
And I'm just curious Orge kind of as a former
roboticist and somebody who's you know, recently done deep dives

(35:46):
into things like hypnotism and stuff like that, like, how
do you how do you think about this sort of thing?

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, well, I think it kind of goes back to
even the nineteen nineties you know what made Google so
revolutionary and was that it was a good search engine,
but it was good at giving you ads that it
thought that you wanted to see, right, And so I
think part of was this human humans kind of want that,
you know, like we don't want to be shown as

(36:13):
for things we don't would never buy or never want
to see, right, We want to be shown as it
kind of help us. And in fact, if you look
at research into like happiness, like what makes people happy
at some point, like having too many choices in your
life makes you unhappy, right, yeah, in a way, like
we kind of need help a little bit just helping

(36:34):
us make decisions, and something that maybe helps you narrow
your choices down can make you a little bit happier.
But as you said, you know, humans have a long
history of manipulating others, using whatever tools are available to
manipulate others, and so yeah, you can definitely imagine that
being used to like influence what you buy, what you

(36:56):
what you're into. And what I learned from hypnotism looking
into hypnotism for one of our episodes was and I
actually got hypnotized in the episodes. We can talk a
little bit about that if you like.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Are you still under by the way right? Yeah, yeah,
I'm still I'm still hopping. That's why I do the show.
I'm still hopping on one leg.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Is that you know, at the end of the day,
you have a subconscious you know, then people can mess with,
people can tread influence, but at the end of the day,
it's still your choice on things. You know, you're the
one who's still give on things. You're the one who's
making all of these options. And so yeah, there's totally
the potential to influence people in a bad way in
a good way, but hopefully people still exercise their free will, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Or understand.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
I think that the very least people need to understand
that their free will is under attack. I think that's
the difference is that there's a lot of these passive
ways that seemingly are like, well that's crazy. Instagram knows
like what I want to buy, like every time, like
I'm just buying stuff there, and I agree. Like there's
sometimes I'm like, oh shit, this is actually something I'm
really interested in and I'm glad I found out about

(38:06):
other times I'm like, who do you think I am?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
And why would I want this?

Speaker 2 (38:11):
But I think understanding how I think, really understanding how
the people like from this MIT paper, like this is
really chilling right from this MIT paper says quote, we
survey recent efforts by tech executives to position the capture, manipulation,
and commodification of human intentionality as a lucrative parallel to
and viable extension of the now dominant attention economy, which

(38:32):
has bent consumers, civic and media norms around users finite
attention span since the nineteen nineties. We call this follow
on the intention economy of like to understand it's like, yes,
we have our free will, but also know that there
are people that are at these levers that can absolutely
have an effect on what we perceive to be like
the decisions we're making independently. And I think that's the

(38:54):
part I think to get in touch with a little more,
because I think as long as you know that that
that's better than like talking to like one of my
older parents who has no dude. My mom showed me
this AI slop video and she's like, why would this
giraffe do this? And I was like, Mom, no, Like

(39:15):
if it felt like I was watching her turn into
like a smith or something like with her.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Red, I say why I did this.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I'm like, hey, bullshit, let it go.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
But the second I told her, like all these things
just start up, She's like, oh shit, I didn't. She's like,
it's the first time I saw anything like this. But
now this makes sense because other people I know will
talk about things like this. I think we have to
at least have that attention on it to help safeguard.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
There's definitely like a line right where you know, if
you're paying for an AI to help you and it
actually has your best interests in mind and really wants
to give you something that you might like, then I
think that can be helpful. But if you or if
they don't tell you that they're also taking money from
an advertiser to try to feed you these things, then
that's what gets really sketch or a political campaign or

(40:03):
candidate or party.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
I mean, it's all like that's the thing is like,
as these tools get developed, like very quickly, a fork
is in the road where it's like, do you do
the thing that you do right by human beings or
do you do the thing that you have a very
lucrative party trick you can sell companies.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
There's a there's a metaphor that a lot of people
use that has I've always used because I think, without
realizing it, it gives me hope and like comfort, which
is like in a few years, like people are going
to look back on everybody having like kids all having
screens and like everybody just like being on their screens
at all times of the day, the way we look

(40:40):
back on like the nineteen fifties and sixties and everybody smoking,
and that I think gives me comfort because it's like, yeah,
but then we got over that. You know, we've realized
that that was bad for us and we stopped doing it.
But like in order to make smoking illegal, like that
was a multi tied decade like battle where we were like, no,

(41:04):
the like look at these charts, like it's the science
is inarguable, Like it is literally like there's a smoking
gun here, like this is you are being killed by
these cigarettes. And like even then, just the forces of
like capital that we're behind smoking, we're just like we're

(41:24):
still wait, we're still holding a wait and see position
on Errand I just I don't think we're going to
get that smoking gun with phones like I think because
it's more of a like spiritual thing. You know, it's
more of a phenomenological like I don't know, like if
you ask yourself ten years ago, if you showed yourself

(41:45):
a video of like what your family dinner looks like today,
like where everybody's just on their phones and not looking
at each other, and like there are ads that like
make fun of the idea of like trying to have
a family dinner without phones like that. That's one of
the ads that keeps running in the NBA playoffs is
like people being like, let's just put our phones away

(42:06):
real quick and then have a conversation. And then somebody
says something really boring and they're like, okay, back to phones.
Back to phone, Like it's a fucking bummer. Like, but
I don't think that that's gonna be enough to make
it like a smoking gun, where we like get rid
of the technology.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
That's a great analogy though with smoking Maybe maybe need
to start with restaurants, you know, my restaurants need to
have like a no phone.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I mean, I feel like that would be trendy, but
it would never like take over, like the Surgeon General
is never gonna be like you must.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Maybe it happened where they're like there was a this guy,
the sushi chef Nozawa, who if you've heard of the
sugarfish like restaurant chain, it's comes from this guy in Nozawa.
And when he like he started off with a small
sushi shop on Ventura Boulevard in the valley, and when
cell phones became a thing because a ton of studio
people would go in there, he had a no cell

(42:57):
phone pot Like he would throw fucking people out mid.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Meal for picking up a phone.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Call, and it became legendary. But then it was like
then very quickly he like gave up.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
He's like, I can't, I can't baddle every he gave up.
Oh no, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
I mean because I think once you throw out a
few studio executives, probably it becomes bad for business exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
And like I mean think about like this is phones
are going to be or you know, AI assistants are
going to be how like all business is conducted. So
I'm assuming also will be seen as bad for business
to institute laws Like I just think it's going to
be on us to make these decisions to like, you know,
live with free will or not. And I think like

(43:41):
to the you know, one of the key takeaways from
your hypnotism episode is like, you can't be hypnotized into
doing something you don't want to do. But I also
to the to the point that you just raised, like
I think a lot of people will want the AI
assistant to just like be like, I don't know, man,
I got a lot going on, Like you just take
it from here, serious.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Show me something that I'm gonna it's gonna relax me.
But I think where it gets tricky is kind of
the socioeconomical part, right, Like, yeah, people people who can
afford it will pay for the like the clean, neutral,
nice version of AI. But people who can afford it
will have to you know, add supported versions and add
hypnotize you know, add subliminal messages version because that's what

(44:26):
they can afford.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's very I mean, like I'm
also like, from a scientific perspective, do you ever worry
about like you you hear a lot about like language
gemony and research and how like the English language dominates
a lot of scientific research and as a result, it
causes research and other language to languages to not get
as much attention as maybe it could be. Or also,

(44:51):
other people have pointed out that It's like, if everyone
thinks in the same language, certain mistakes can happen because
you're using everyone's sort of using the same language linguistic
pathways to arrive at a solution where it's like varied
forms of languages have different sort of pathways to solve
a problem just based on how the language is structured.
I wonder too, if, like with the proliferation of people

(45:12):
using AI more and more, if that is just now
another layer of vulnerability where there's like a version where
people aren't giving it the same kind of vetting or
analysis as they would because they're presuming it to be
completely correct.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
And then does that lead to some kind of what
is this going to do for? Yeah, what is this
going to do for like outside the box thinking? When
you have a thing doing your thinking for you that
is just drawing on all previous thoughts and remixing it.
It's like, yes, we're not going to have a lot
of cool new ideas coming through. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
And you know for sure, like scientists definitely talk about,
you know, having a common language. You know you kind
of need that in order to exchange ideas about sciences.
Kind of hard to do it through translator, so that
a little bit of that is inevitable. But you know,
I always take comfort in the fact that if you
ever talk to a scientist or any scientists, their dream
is to be like the one person who's contrariant who turns.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Out to be right, you know, to be the person
who's revolutionary, the big short of science, the scientific Yeah. Yeah,
everyone wants to be the person who up ends the field,
or everyone wants to be the person who proves everyone right.
So my feeling is like, hopefully and this will continue,
is that science is kind of set up so that,
you know, people are always questioning the assumptions that aren't
being made and the results that are being come out.

(46:33):
So that's my hope in the parents that that continues.
You're doing that from China, they will not be doing
it from the United States. Well, yeah, and I think
that also.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
I definitely agree with that because I feel like the
people that have been most vocal about questioning AI have
been scientists and researchers because they're also just sort of like, well,
it does these things, fine, let's really talk about everything,
and yeah, I guess I never think about like yeah
much in this saying yeah, people want like, that's that's
the high you would chase as a researcher or a scientist.

(47:05):
It's like, do you fucking overlook this?

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Right, right, right, so yeah, maybe we do have something
in built there and the sciences that will help.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
How annoying scientists are?

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Yeah, people say there's three kinds of scientists. The scientist
who first poses a question, and the scientist who answers
the question, and then everyone in between, who nobody ever remembers.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Right, damn, damn.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Now watch we peel this banana from the tip end.
Have you seen somebody open a banana from the tip end?

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah? Yeah, I've been the person who thought that was
that's the way to do it, the better way to
do it, that's the way to do it. It's actually easier. Yeah, well,
there's there is a trade of but we can't get
into it.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Wait, hold on, no, and I need to know because
we're just talking about contrarians. And I saw somebody's like, yeah,
let me open this banana for your kid. I said,
what the fuck are you doing it?

Speaker 3 (47:59):
From that in front there's a banana, right, there's the
part that stems that conneice to the rest of the planet.
That that's not the tail, right that you would call
the other end the tail where it ends.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
They oh wait, I'm calling it from the stem. I
open it from the stem end.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yeah right, Yeah, that's how I've always done it. But
recently I got shown that trick too of opening it
from the tip end. And it is easier, especially if
the banana is not quite ripe, like if it's a
little green and it's it's kind of hard to open
it from the step in. Then it's a lot easier
to just squeeze the tip. Uh, and then then it
just kind of opens up.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Oh so it changed me when I saw and we're
about to bring us to our next subject after the break,
we're seeing a gorilla open a banana where they just
break it, snap it in half, and then just like
kind of shoot it out. That might be easier, yet
you're grilla. They half. Yeah, you break it and they
break pretty easy. I highly recommend it. It's a great feeling.

(48:58):
I've broke.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
I nearly broke my hands trying to break it.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh no, I'm telling you the Miles, you're not in
my one hundred banana. Like Miles hooped the banana. We
need that in a distraction. Let's take a quick break.
We'll come back and talk about the most important scientific
question of the day. We'll be right back, and we're back.

(49:34):
We're back, all right, Warhead. Here it is. We've been
We've been debating this one all last week of the
internet has been to be debating it. Curious to hear
your thoughts. Where do you fall one hundred men versus
one gorilla? Fight to the death? I guess is the terms?

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Yeah, yeah, well I definitely have opinions because my kids
have asked me this question. Yeah, definitely, the whole internet
is talking about it. I think it's an interesting question
just because there are so many ifs about it, you know, right,
like so many if questions, like it tip the scale
towards the gorilla or towards the human, and so it's
like this endless source of opinions about what might or

(50:12):
might not happen. Yeah, Like does the gorilla fight each
human one by one? Does it have territorial advantage? Like
is it at the top of a hill or at
the end of the hallway? Can the humans communicate? Like
there's all these possibilities that you know, lend lend themselves
to people having different thoughts about it.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah, and like if we're if it's on a hill,
then can't you just like pick up a rock. Can't
the humans pick up a rock? What if them like
pitched college like in college, like was a baseball pitcher
in college, Like, then that's going to really tilt the
scales in one direction or the other. Yeah, are the
one hundred people do you get to choose them? Are

(50:51):
they just like did they use a randomizer to select
these one hundred people and they have no preparation there? Are?
You're right, like, there's a lot of ways that can
shift it in the direction of I think the one gorilla,
like you, I could see like if it was one
hundred people and like some of them are just like
waking up and some of them, you know, like it's

(51:13):
just randomly at all random times of the day and
they're thrown into a thing and then told like ten
at a time, one at a time, like then right here,
you're gonna be in trouble. But so I think we
need to imagine like what is the scenario, right? Is it?
I think it most people think of it as like
an open field. You get a gorilla, you get a
hundred humans, random humans or average humans, right, pretty much

(51:36):
like average humans. Yeah, I think that's probably right, Like
we use a randomizer and it's just one hundred random humans.
Yeah right. I think they have to because that is
what humans do. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah, So I think if that's the scenario, I would
fall on the Carriger saying that it all depends on
one key question, which is who is more mode exactly,
Like if the gorilla doesn't really want to fight, and
then the humans are all the humans are like why
are we here? I don't know what we're supposed to
attack this gorilla, then basically no fight is going to happen, right, Yeah.

(52:11):
If the gorilla feels strengned and the gorilla is like
I need to I need to murder these humans, then
I think it's on you know, yeah, and I think
or the gorillas pass it, but you offer all the
one hundred humans, Hey, I'll give you a hundred million
dollars to basically take out these gorilla game style.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
That game really quick game motivation.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
This is the thing.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
So over the weekend I was like, look, I was
reading constant articles written by primatologists about this, and a
I came run to the fact that sadly, a gorilla
would not not sad I don't know why sadly because
I've been so team gorilla will fucking destroy these hundred people.
The gorilla would lose to one hundred people was something

(52:52):
every primatologist was like, there's no, it's just too many people.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
But the other part, which is what shamed me. All
the primatologists are also like, but also shame on everyone
for why are you even thinking this up? Gorillas are
some of the most gentle creatures, with the capacity for emotion,
to play gently with their children, like their partners, the
other people, like in their community, and this is just
creating a very weird image of an animal that would

(53:19):
a most likely just try to escape.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
They were like, a lot of people are like, a.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Gorilla would not have no interest in taking on one
hundred human beings, So just by virtue of that, they're like,
the people would probably win. But there was one guy
who went on that I think is a Danlebotard show
where painted a pretty vivid picture. The guy was like,
I think you should not be entertaining this morbid thing,

(53:43):
but yet again, but here I am entertaining it.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
So this is what I'm saying so.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
This one prim say was like, fuck it, you want
an answer, this is how it would go down, And
he said, we're both saying. The one hundred men would
have to be quote committed, and it would have to
go in united They said, that doesn't mean it would
be pretty. The human salt force quote would have to
expect severe collateral damage that could easily include death from

(54:08):
broken necks, severe arterial bite wounds, massive concussions leading to
fatal brain bleeds, and asphyxiation from other men piling on
top of them. It could be a Kamakaze mission for
the men closest.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
To the gorilla.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
That's why you're willing to accept this. The group should
be able to overtake the gorilla and inflict enough blunt
force trauma combined with severe twisting of the head and neck,
well simultaneously afflicting severe abdominal punches that the gorilla would
eventually succumb to either a broken neck.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Internal or damage, or asphyxiation.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Then I think afterwards I was like Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Okay, don't make it real. This is not as much
fun anymore. It's like one of those things.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Once you really dig in and it takes a sign
to be like, okay, you really want to have your
little fucking game like theater animation where people went.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
There, your mind is yeah, yeah, I hope.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
You're going to bite a gorilla's throat off at least
seven of you.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like it really comes
down to the flight fight or flight response, you know,
like if it's a life for that situation, then it's
really one. And where my head went to as the roboticist,
was like, this is I think it might help to
think of this as the equivalent of like you, like
you or me, or an average person fighting one hundred
six graders right right for Einstein level geniuses right now,

(55:29):
if this was because one hundred kids, it's a lot.
It's like two school buses full of kids. Yeah yeah,
And you know, if this was a normal situation, you
might be able to scare off a few of the kids.
But if now, let's say, let let's make the kids
robots with like murderous programming and they're all trying to
get you, like, do you really think you'd send a
chance against one hundred murderous sixth grade geniuses? Right? Maybe not?

(55:56):
Sup producer bay I just pointed out that there was
a show called Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?
And the physical challenge at the end was exactly what
you're describing, would then have to take, would have to
take on thirty Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff Fox, No, I don't.
I don't think they did that and that and we're
now realizing that was a massive missed opportunity on their part.

(56:20):
The suffocation from like the crushing is actually a really
good point. I feel like, yeah, well, the the way
so many people die and like those crowd deaths where
like stamping everything, so really yeah, I know, but it's
basically all the weight from the back of the crowd

(56:41):
pushes in on the people at the front of the crowd.
So for all, if we're assuming all one hundred people
are going, then everybody at the front is not going
to make it, But neither is the grilla I'm assuming.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah, I'm now just like I'm like, I've just been
so thoroughly shamed by science. Now I'm like, this is
obviously not even you. Well, it's it's meant to feed
this dark darkness about our society that we can't contend with.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
And it goes back to being kids, like I volunteered
at my daughter's school. I've read like one of the
most popular book series that kids check out. It's like
Shark versus Yeah, you know, octopus or shark. You know,
gorilla versus tiger. Who's gonna win? Yeah, my kids will
check that book out too. The Yeah, the good thing
is it has a definitive answer that is in no

(57:28):
way you know, scientific, but is very confident, like the
shark actually wins this one.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Remember they're like YouTube videos where people were doing like
insect Battle Royale death matches and you're like scorpion verse
tarantula and you're like oh shit, and all those just
got too real and you're like, oh my god. Yeah,
it was better when I thought of them as like
Transformers characters. Yeah, it's like, well, the autobot defeat the

(57:55):
dino con.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I don't know my fucked up brain. Immediately, when you
were talking about the primatologists being like the gorillas are
really like gentle I was like, oh, they don't have
that dog in them all, right, Grizzly bear moving moving on,
a grizzly Bear soldier. This hypothetical question, okay, how about this? Sorry?

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Who what is the animal? That would suck up one
hundred men.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Oh, thank you, you know, I mean probably a hippo.
I mean if if we're yeah, I think a hippo
probably could do it. See now we're like pivoting hard
is like hippo is also like the water a lot
of the time, Like that's anything that's in water. You're
just sending a bunch of people in the world. Yeah,
fighting on there. I think I think I have the answer. Yes,

(58:41):
as they say, the most dangerous animal is the human.
The human being one human versus one hundred humans, were
one human highly trained person with maybe resources might be
the most dangerous.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Animals and has to get a new adagn they're like,
how about one man versus one hundred with a rifle?

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Thank you? All right, we didn't get we didn't get
a chance to get to less important questions like our
near death experience is real? And uh, what's it like
to live and poop in space? So people are gonna
have to the Near Death Experiences episode. By the way,
I highly recommend people check it out because it's, Yeah,

(59:25):
it's like all the stuff that I had heard and
then like at a certain point been like this can't
all be true. Like is real. Like the people across
different cultures describe the same experience, but like because they
have different backgrounds, they like use different words. So like
they describe like tunnels in America, but like in cultures

(59:45):
that haven't had experiences with tunnels, that'll be like caves
or you know, pipes in some places. And that the
experiences are very common across like a chunk of near
death experiences and then they're really interesting. Reason for that
that has to do with like LSD and bring chemicals.
It is really cool. Magic mushrooms yeah, magic mushrooms. Yeah.

(01:00:08):
So highly recommend people go check it out or hey,
where can people find that show? Find you all that
kod stuff? Yeah, it's an iHeartRadio show. It's called science stuff.
That's one word, science stuff, and you can find it
anywhere you listen to podcasts like this one. There you go,
And is there a work of media that you've been
enjoying or social media? I have been enjoying it a

(01:00:31):
work of media. And this goes a little bit into
my free will being subverted, which is that my kids
are really into Korean culture, going back to Korea capop
groups and so, and they use my YouTube account in
my Spotify account, and so whenever I hop onto any
of these platforms, I get inundated with K pop stuff

(01:00:53):
which I've grown too late. So there's some really fun
creative stuff going under, So check it out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Any artists specifically you want to shut up?

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Well, I think I think I need to consider myself
an icon. Now, Cat's Eye fan, Okay, my son is
straight Kids Yeah yeah, BTS Black Tank, Black Tank Huge,
And I think that's about where my knowledge of K
pop ends in terms of names. Amazing miles Where can

(01:01:24):
people find you as their working media you've been enjoying?

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Oh yes, you can find me everywhere they have at Symbols,
at Miles of Gray. You can find me lamenting the
very hasty exit of the Lakers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
It was painless.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Look, someone had to go in first to fight the
Gorilla and the Lakers. Oh that's a better mean. Who
would win a Grizzly Bear or the Lakers depends on
who the coach is, you know, unleash that bench, bro,
I'm the forty year old Lebron's gonna get washed. And
also find that's on Booty is find me talking ninety

(01:02:01):
Dan on four to twenty Day Fiance work of media.
I'm liking just the rehearsal, just the rehearsal that's been watched.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Episode three was good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Her Majesty was out of town this weekend on a trip,
so I sat on it because I didn't, you know,
whenever you're watching Victor and the Chad just said bru bro.
Also yesterday and our another group chat that we had
with Anna Superducer Ana Jose, she was just even like,
y'all this next episode.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Every weekend because she's on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
The East Coast, She's always like, guys, this next one
fucking destroyed. It's like that's the energy she always has
in describing this show. So anyway, check out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
The rehearsal in the Fielder. No. You can find me
on Twitter at jack Underscore, Brian blue Sky at jack
Obi the number one working media I've been enjoying at
Kyle Train Emoji tweeted Jackie Chan accidentally getting stuck inside
a gorilla costume and then having to fight off one
hundred guys. That's I mean, that's such a good pitch.

(01:03:03):
That's the ultimate Jackie Chan scene. You can find us
on Twitter and blue Sky at Daily Zeitgeist, where at
the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. You can go to the
description of this episode wherever you're listening to it, and
there you will find the footnotes, which is where we
link off to the information that we talked about in
today's episode. We also link off to a song that
we think you might enjoy. Miles, is there a song

(01:03:25):
that you think people might enjoy?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yeah, there's a new track from the Baltimore based like
hardcore punk band called Turnstyle. This new track is called
never Enough and the guitars just like just the production,
it's very I don't know, it feels very like nineties
alternative in a way, like the way the guitar or
the guitar distortion hits my brain. It's I don't know,

(01:03:49):
like I feel like I'm listening to k Rocket, like
ninety eight or something. But anyway, all their stuff is
really dope. But this is one of their newest tracks
called never Enough, by the group Turnstyle.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Check in right. We will look off to that in
the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That's going to do it for us this morning. We're
back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and
we will talk to you all then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Bye bye by The Daily Zeitgeist is executive produced by
Catherine Law.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Co produced by Bee Wang, co produced by Victor Wright

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Co written by J M McNabb, Edited and engineered by
Justin Conner,