September 22, 2022 • 39 mins
Miles and Jack were pleased to be joined by the national NBA writer for The Washington Post, Ben Golliver on the latest episode of Boosties. The author of "BubbleBall" took them through what the experience of covering the NBA in the Bubble was like, whether the Lakers will be improved this year and plenty more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're back, and the preseason is less than ten days away,
and we've got one of the all time great team
reunions and plus maybe ones we would want to see
on our own. We've got some news and notes from
the around the league in the anniversary of what was
one of the greatest titles of all time, the title
to discuss with the author of bubble Ball and national
(00:20):
NBA writer for The Washington Post, Ben Goliver. I'm Miles
Gray and I'm Jack O'Brien, and this is godstost. Okay,
we did what we cleaned it up. We cleaned it up.
And what's up, Ben, Ben, Ben, Welcome to the show.
(00:45):
Ben in the building. It's great to be here, gentlemen.
You guys sound excited. I mean, the preseason is right
around the corner. We got Media Day coming up, all
that good stuff. Been kind of a while, how long off?
He yes, and I have as a Laker fan, I
have many questions. I wait with bated to hear the
answers on media day to make sense of what might
be happening this What can they tell you on media
(01:05):
day that you'd be like, oh, oh, okay, I don't
even know that that's the kind of like magical thinking
I have where I can't even articulate a statement that
would saying, allons wait for media day? Just wait, I
want to hear it from them what exactly? But yeah, Ben,
you're coming to us here in l A as well? Right? Absolutely?
(01:29):
I mean, aren't you guys waited for the Russell Westbrook
trade destination? Isn't that what you want to hear on
media day? Are you holding out that it's going to
somehow work out with him? Because they're bringing in every
available point guard. It's getting pretty obvious, right, Yes? I
think so. And while many people are like there's no way,
I'm like, well, I don't think the Lakers would say, hey,
really trying to get rid of this guy? If anybody's interested,
(01:50):
and you might as well go with the positive spin
of like, yeah, we look good, we like what we see.
Let's get into camp and then take it step by step.
All right? So Ben, where are you from? I know
you're living in a but where where did you grow up?
Of kind of what's your fandom? What's your fandom journey? Well?
So I actually grew up in Beaverton, Oregon, which is
pretty much known for being like headquarters of Nikes. So
I was, you know, I had all the Swoosh propaganda
(02:12):
kind of pumping through my veins as a kid. And
I went to college back east, moved back to Portland
after college, and started covering the Blazers, you know, in
two thousand and seven, which was like a really hopeful time.
I mean Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Soldiers, Greg Oden. I actually
got my start because I started a blog spot website,
if you remember, those trying to convince the Blazers to
draft Kevin Durant and I was convinced they were going
(02:34):
to listen to me until they didn't, and I was
almost in tears on on draft night. But so I
kind of kind of used that to get my foot
in the door, and and um, you know, started covering
the NBA kind of at large in in and moved
down here to l A for Kobe's last season. So
I guess I'm a Western Conference guy, if you want
to look at it that way. But um, I have
a lot of good memories from like the Rip City
(02:55):
Blazers era of the early nineties, um as well as
you know, kind of the modern Blazers which went from that.
Brandon LaMarcus Era into the Damian Lillard you know era
as well. Yeah, which Dame was like my standout memory
from the bubble. I don't know if we want to
get into the bubble already, but Dame and uh Jamal
(03:16):
Murray like to just were so like the most unconscious
I've ever seen. Like the best shooting I think I've
ever seen on a basketball court to that point was
them in the bubble was just like so wild man. Well,
and don't forget Tyler Hero too. I Mean, we had
some Bubble guys who just went absolutely nuts. It was
one of the big lessons, like if there's no crowd,
(03:36):
there's no distractions and you're just kind of in like
a pickup type environment, clean Jim. All of a sudden,
all these dudes just like could not miss. I mean
Damian Lillard, I think he went for sixty plus in
one game. Yeah, dragging the Blazers into the playoffs. It
was absolutely nuts, and he was screaming, give me my respect,
you know, put some respect on my name. And remember
that shot that hit the back of the ram, bounced
(03:58):
like ten feet up in the air and then came
down switched through. That was an all time where I was.
I was there for that game too, so yeah, you're
bringing back some really good memories. Man. I mean it
was two years ago, it feels like twenty years ago,
because I mean it was the last time the Lakers
were good, and that feels like a long long time ago.
So yeah, yeah, that was damn in his sixty one
(04:18):
point game that they ended up beating Dallas from the logo,
hit the back of the rim, shot up like above
the backboard, and then just like dropped right through and
it was like, all right, he's got some sort of
spiritual thing going right now that this seems like it
is defined the laws of physics and just whatever leaves
his fingers is going to drop through the basket five
(04:39):
to shoot a minute, and I have to play that's
a bomb. At a certain point, I was really as
a fan, just like, man, I'll have some of that
time in my life. It was also a time when
I remember that game because nothing else was really going
on at that time, and so I just remember everybody
(05:01):
started tweeting at the same time. They were like, oh,
Dames on one, and so you know, twenty points into
a sixty one point game, I just was on it.
You know, watching that and ignoring my three year old
I think at the talking at my shirt Dame Dame,
Dame time, nap time, Dame time. One thing I remember
(05:23):
about that is so when the Blazers clinched the playoffs,
we just coincidentally were like kind of let out of
our little media bubble for one of the only times
the entire experience to get to have like almost like
a team dinner at this pretty fancy restaurant that was
at one of the hotels the players were staying at.
This was like a rare luxury. I mean, they kept
the media super super lockdown the entire experience, and so
(05:45):
the Blazers were actually at that hotel. They were the
only team left from that hotel that hadn't been eliminated.
Because as soon as you got eliminated from the playoffs,
they just got you out of their sap. Like the
next morning you were just gone right Like guys were
like packing up even before the games on some occasions.
And so they had this big like welcome sign like
congratulations Trailblazers, like you're the king of the hotel, and
(06:07):
like they had all like decorated with their you know,
with their logo and then these guys had nowhere else
to celebrate, so they're just like sitting in the lobby
of their hotel, like, you know, having some drinks, sitting
at the bar, like having a good time. You know,
super stoke that they made the playoffs, obviously, because you know,
it would have been a real effort for them to
kind of climb up into it, and yet like at
the same time, probably wishing they could have a cooler
(06:29):
party because like, you know, it was so land that
even like the DORKNBA riders like myself were able to
at least like see what was going on. So um,
you know, that's what happens when you can't go anywhere.
You know. It was a very unique circumstance in that
in that playoffs, Man, I make myself a congratulations Jack,
You're the King of the Hotel sign every time I
checked into a place. I didn't know that they actually
(06:51):
did that for real. That's that makes me very jealous. Yeah,
you gotta you gotta achieve a few more things to
get that. But did you put it as a special
request whenever you check in next time? Then this chicken? Yeah, yeah, congratulations,
you're the King of the Hotel thanks, okay. So, I mean,
I think we just get into it. The Bubble was
a fantastic moment from my perspective as a Laker fan,
(07:12):
but I think for most people as basketball fans, like
it came at a time where we were trying to
figure out what sports we could watch again, how a
league could do something safely, would it rise to the
same level just overall, I mean, as someone who was there,
tell us a little bit about how unique of an
experience that was, because you've obviously seen the league in
every form, whether it's in the arenas and then to
(07:33):
this version of the bubble. Then I'm also going to
ask tell me something interesting about the bubble that I
have not heard, because I know you've probably heard or
seen something. Well. I mean, it was so so weird.
You know. I was really paranoid just about my own
health because you know, there was no vaccines, no boosters
at that point, and I had to fly from l
A to Orlando. So I hopped on that plane with
one of those crazy like shield masks, you know what.
(07:55):
I'm like doubled up on the masks, and I remember,
like Rachel Nichols was, when my flight shoes like doing
the same thing. Like everybody was just like so paranoid
about just yeah, yeah, I mean exactly super duper intense.
You know. I even had the plastic gloves on like
I was Walter White. You know. At that point, it's like,
(08:15):
I'm not gonna miss this experience like I would have. Yeah,
I feel like anybody would have wore like a hazmat suit. Well,
and also just you know, really nervous about like what
happens if you get this disease, because you know, for
those first couple of months, it's easy, they kind of
all runs together, right, but for a lot of people
during those first couple of months, we were all pretty
much locked down, and I was being really really careful.
I mean I was trying to order in all my food,
doing all those kinds of safe you know things from
(08:37):
a safety standpoint. So the idea of flying across country
and then being in the same spot as hundreds of
other people was kind of like mentally intimidating, and then
as soon as you get there, they just throw you
into like basically the ten day quarantine where we couldn't
leave our hotel rooms, and I was just going crazy.
So I actually wound up going viral because I took
a video of myself just pacing back and forth in
my hotel room, eight steps at a time because I
(08:59):
was trying to get Apple Watch steps. So I wound
up walking more than six miles a day even during
the quarantine, just back and forth in the hotel. And
you can, you know, obviously you understand how pathetic that is.
I mean, it's just you're just pacing around your room
for an hour and a half and you dedicated to
closing those rings. Though, yeah, it had to be, and
also to try not to go crazy. You know, it
(09:19):
should be real stir crazy when you're really like that
intensely locked down. But once we got out of it, Uh,
I was really impressed by just the court set up
in terms of how they made it good for television,
right because you don't want to watch an empty court.
They used the technology, they had the cool lights. And
then as a basketball junkie man, it's like, well this
is great. Like I have a front row seat. I
(09:40):
can hear everybody trash talking, right, like there's only ten
twenty people in these uh these games, and like when
the Bucks did their protests, like I was one of
three reporters who was there at tip off, you know
what I mean, what was scheduled to be the tip off.
So the reporter side of me was like, this is incredible,
Like this is I got the lucky ticket to the
really walk a basket ball factor, you know what I mean.
(10:01):
But I mean, there was so many twists and turns
along the way. You guys, remember that Daniel House incident
right where during the middle of a playoff series, he
like gets in trouble for allegedly bringing uh someone into
his hotel room who's not supposed to be there. You've
got the Houston Rockets all up in arms saying this
is like a competitive disadvantage and you know, we need
to be able to have our guys. And then you know,
(10:21):
almost immediately after that incident, the Rockets just pretty much quit.
You know, the Lakers run them off the court the
next couple of games. And so you can look and say,
when are we ever going to have a scenario where
an unauthorized hotel guest will swing a playoff series? We're
never going to have that in the NBA history ever, uh,
And the answer is probably no. But you know, one
(10:42):
of my big takeaways from the whole experience was it
would have been so much worse if they didn't have
a champion in the record books, right, Like, I know
you guys are basketball junkies as well, like, and you know,
growing up, you're reading the history books, and every single
year it says, here's who won the time of right
Lakers in the eighties, Celtics in the eighties, and you
go all the way back to the city these fifties,
there's always a champion. And for me, I was so
(11:03):
glad that they were able to actually crown a champion
and get the thing done safely because having like a
spot or like an asterisk in the record books to
be it would just never would have sat right, you know,
it would have just always like rubbed me the wrong way.
And so it was pretty exciting to, uh, to have
them able to do that. I feel like you could argue, like,
because you know, you sometimes hear people I've never heard
(11:24):
this like said in good faith, but you do hear
people being like that wasn't a real title, or like
to put an asterisk the Mickey crowd. Yeah, I feel
like you could argue that was maybe the purest highest
level basketball tournament of all time because there's like no advantages,
no disadvantages due to travel. It was everything in normal
(11:45):
playoffs is, but just like hyper focused on basketball and
team dynamics with an added level of like psychological experiment
thrown in. But just the ability to focus through that,
I feel like, is just everything a normal NBA championship is,
plus like an added level of difficulty. And I'm not
(12:05):
a Lakers fan, Like I was blown away by what
everybody did that year, but especially the Lakers. I totally
agree with that it was such a mental test, and
not everybody wanted that test, right. Look at the Sixers,
they got out of there as quick as they could sweep,
went home. They were fine with it, you know. You
look at the Clippers. They could have buckled down in
their second round series and gone further, and they were
ready to go home, you know. And then they've even
(12:26):
kind of admitted that after the fact of like they
just didn't really want to be there. Guys were uncomfortable
because they were separated from their family members. Even a
guy like Janice, who had a brand new baby, even
though he was with his two brothers in the bubble,
never really felt like he was, you know, clicking on
all cylinders because he was separated from his family, such
a family type of guy. It was really hard. Man.
I was there for ninety three days. I put on weight,
(12:48):
you know. It was like really like mentally taxing. And
I didn't have to play. I'm just going there to
watch the games. Right, You put on weight and your
leg muscles right from just all those steps. You were
shred by the end. I wish. But it was also
just like the quality of the food there. I don't
want to talk too much negativity about Disney World, but
it wasn't my typical diet. And it's just the stress
(13:09):
of game game day, game day, game day, game day,
and really having no other healthy outlets. You know, we
couldn't go for a ride. You know. We could go fishing,
you know, we can take a little boat right every
once in a while. You could do little things like
that here and there. You could ride a bike if
you wanted. But I mean, this is central Florida in
the middle of July, in August and September. You know,
it's humid, it's nasty. I mean, you know, there's thunderstorms.
(13:31):
You don't always want to go outside. So it was
taxing for sure. Plus the fish you catch might be
flounder from the Little Mermaid you know, yeah exactly, or Nemo.
You never it was catching release, So don't worry no fish.
No fish were harm bey the course of my expeditions,
that's for sure. So like, so, Ben, when you were there,
(13:51):
did you go to the bubble thinking like, well, this
is going to be a fantastic book or was it
more of a like I'm there, I'm actually seeing in
real time how special this is. Because I'm sure on
some level as a journalist you're always thinking on how
to record history and things like that, But how did
you arrive to actually writing the book? No? I mean
I always say I'm kind of like Forrest gun Man.
Stuff just falls in my lap. Like I did not
(14:13):
have any like grand Master, but I would love to
be able to say like, oh yeah, as soon as
I understood, I was going to go there like I
had laid it all out like bits ready. But it
wasn't like that. Man, I went there wondering are we
even going to be there for a week? Is this
gonna work? Are we all gonna get sent home? Or
is somebody going to give up and pull the plug?
Like I had no idea it was gonna work. So
when I did go there, I knew I had a
(14:34):
unique perspective on like everything that was happening, and so
we decided to do something it's pretty rare at the
Washington Post and actually just right like first person journal
entries where I was just kind of describing, like, hey,
here's what I'm doing, here's what it looks like, here's
where they're practicing, here's how the players are acting. And
it was from my own perspective as opposed to like
the typical you know, report and third person type of
(14:55):
voice that I would use. And an agent, you know,
saw those diaries and like, look, dude, you gotta turn
this into a book. This is wild. And at that point,
you know, it was still only a couple of weeks
into it. We still didn't know if the whole thing
was gonna work. But thankfully a publisher bought into the
vision and the deal came together really quickly. And then
the only thing that made it trickier was my boss
(15:16):
and said, hey, look at the Post. They said, when
you're when you're in the bubble, just focus on your
work for us, write the book when the season's over.
And I was like, all right, that's totally fair. You're
paying for me to be down here, no problem. And
I thought I was gonna have a long offseason to
write the book because I thought, oh, they're just gonna
delay the start next season, you know, months and months.
Then they turned back around and like, oh, by the way,
we're starting in December, and so I had to write
that book in like two three months. I mean, just
(15:37):
crank it out. It was pretty hard to do. Um,
but you know, I was glad that I had enough
perspective to no longer be living in it so I
could reflect on it without like two years passing, because
if I tried to write that book now, I would
have forgotten everything that happened, like all the little specifics. So, um,
the whole thing actually came together pretty well, I think
in terms of the timeline. Do you feel like there
(15:59):
is there was something like it just felt like the
shooting was better in the bubble. Do you do you
think that was just like depth of field, like not
having a moving crowd behind the glass backboard or do
you think some people just like really responded like Dame, like, um,
you know some of the players that just yeah, a
(16:19):
d Jimmy Butler, Like I mean Lebron, Donovan Mitchell, Like
there were some players who like really stepped up. But
I mean with Lebron and A d and Jimmy Butler,
even there people who have like stepped up outside, but
I don't know, like Donovan Mitchell was out of his mind.
Uh t. J Warren was out of his mind. Jamal Murray,
I think Jamal Murray that was like I was like,
(16:42):
this is the guy now, Like this is one of
the best two guards in the league now, and you
know he's he's had some injuries, but it just it
did feel like there was a level of shot making
that was almost next level. Yeah, I mean a couple
of things. First of all, no travel makes such a difference.
You know, just after this most recent playoff ground I
think I took thirty seven flights in like three months,
(17:04):
you know, to cover the NBA playoffs, which when those
are going from Boston and San Francisco Boston, I mean,
I understand these guys are flying Charter, but they're logging
so many miles over the course of the playoffs, and
when you take all of that travel out, it's so
much better for their sleep schedules, for their rest and
recovery time period, and I just think it helps them
get into a groove. I think playing in the same
(17:24):
gym over and over and over is important psychologically you're
not making any sort of adjustments. And I think no
crowd means no pressure, you know, like they were just
it's not the same when you have to go and
make shots in Boston Garden Games six like Steph Curry did.
There's one guy who can do that. That's Steph, right.
You you're talking about in a random like basically a
(17:45):
U jim, you know, on the campus of you know,
an amusement park where there's thirty people plus you know,
a couple of a dozen family members watching these big
games and they're not even really allowed to boo, you
know what I mean. You saw that big confrontation between
Russell Westbrook and you know, one of the family members,
and that guy got kicked out like he didn't get
to stay. And there's no heckling involved. And I think
(18:05):
the psychological aspect of it being quiet, calm and then
um no travel, together with the consistency of the gym,
is what really spiked up the shooting percentages and it
helped guys get comfortable. But you're right, there was like
ten twenty guys who all outperformed their typical baseline by
a lot, and you look at the following season, we
(18:26):
still saw that a little bit even when they were
back traveling. I mean, guys like Julius Randall, Zach Lavine,
you know, they cashed in with career years that that
following year. Um, And I do think that the crowd
dynamics played a role on how well those guys shot through. Yeah,
travel is so exhausting, Like every time I travel, I'm like,
why am I the most tired I've ever been in
(18:46):
my life? So, yeah, that makes what is your three
point percentage going down? Yeah? My three percent? I thought
you were going to say there are two guys who
can knew what the game sixth thing in Boston Garden
and mentioned me. But that's fine, Like I get it
because I've improved it. But one of the story, Yeah, yeah,
you know who else loved to know travel though? The
referees because they have to slum it, you know, on
(19:08):
the commercial airlines. Those guys, so they were whining because
they didn't get any Marriott points, right, but they love
the fact that they didn't have to take the flights
and it's like, you know their trade off honestly, I
mean after you go through the playoff grime, you know
you understand. Like I mean, every summer I come out
and I just feel like I'm you know, my head
is spinning, like I need to almost like detox from
traveling in basketball for the playoffs. You're like, what time
(19:30):
zone am I even in right now? An NBA ref
needs to start a travel blog because like they probably
are the most seasoned at traveling commercial and you know,
just putting on their headphones because everybody's gonna recognize them.
I want to talk to them about stuff, so you know,
just how to do it without talking to anyone there
towards boding up in the air basically exactly, they're like, no,
(19:53):
you don't want this flight. The other one. They got
better hardware on this airline. All right, let's take a
quick break and we'll be back to discuss even more
with then right after this and we're back. And obviously,
(20:14):
as a vowed Laker fan, the bubble playoffs the whole
that was fantastic for me. I got to see Anthony
Davis do things I couldn't believe, and I to this day,
I hold those memories dearly as I wear my A
D Bubble jersey. But for you, I mean, you this
your whole experience. Basically, you were there, you got to celebrate,
(20:35):
or you at least got hit with the celebratory champagne.
Do I have this correct as part of your bubble experience? Yeah,
that's I mean, that's why you should feel sorry for
your Lakers. They're the only team that won a title,
had nobody to celebrate with and then had to pick
on the media members with the champagne bottles and they
were looking around to spray anybody. And you know, I
had the camera rolling when Lebron came out of locker
room with the I think he was like double fisting
(20:57):
bottles maybe at that point, and he just absolutely soaked me,
I mean my suit, so that we all rushed out
of the bubble like as soon as it was over,
like the next morning, I know, I'm gonna fly home.
And when I got home, my suit still smelled like
that champagne like, and I was you know, I had
it laundered and finally like it went back to normal,
but um just completely doused me. It was very memorable moment.
(21:20):
And just an incredible run. I'm never going to forget
that Lakers playoff run because of the amazing access we
had of the players during like warm ups, pregame, post
game and that kind of stuff where you know, Lebron's
on the court more than an hour before the game,
he's going through a meditation session, like, you know, trying
to get himself mentally prepared for these games. Um, these
guys physically are are doing whatever they need to do
(21:42):
to kind of be able to play every other night
because they condensed that playoff schedule, uh, to you know,
fit it in and quickly before you know, mostly before
football season started. And to just watch the amount of
just sheer hours he would put it to his game
that we were able to actually witness them, and that's
spot was it was special. I Mean, everybody knows he's
one of the greatest players of all time. He's always
(22:04):
going to be in that kind of a conversation. And
you know, to me, having that happened like right after
watching the Last Dance where you had so much behind
the scenes footage of MJ, it was just kind of
like a really cool special experience for like a basketball
door where you're like Yeah, there's gonna be documentaries made
about this, Like maybe I'm gonna be in the background,
like Filman Lebron. As you know, they were going through
some crazy pregame routine. But um, that's kind of what
(22:27):
I'll remember more than anything about that run. They were dominant.
I mean, they wiped just about everybody off the court,
and they got lucky, you know, in terms of Miami
not really being at full strength in the finals, you know,
took place. But still Lebron was some really just all
time classic performances forty plus points and some key games
to bring that title home. And like you said, a
d didn't this shot the whole time. Even k CP
(22:49):
was getting highlights, you know, big corner three's and daggers
and all this kind of stuff. So having watched that
team for that entire season, you know, because I'm here
in l A, I was never convinced that they were
going to win the title. Like, even going into the bubble,
I thought maybe the Clippers should be viewed as the
favorites here, you know, kind of like the hot new
thing in town. And Lebron delivered. And we didn't start
(23:10):
that great in there either, So that was definitely a moment,
I was like, we were doing so well in the
build up and then we got there. I I my
confidence wavered a bit as well, but they then came background.
But to your point about seeing, you know, seeing things
that you normally wouldn't. What's an example of like your
understanding of what the player you thought Lebron was or
the squad that the Lakers were at the time, and
(23:31):
then the things you saw that we're sort of adding
a little more texture to like your analysis of that. Well,
you know a lot of times, you know, you hear
these stories about how Lebron knows the other team's entire plays,
all their coverages, and he's able to call them out right,
and you know, you sometimes wonder like our people laying
it on thick, you know, to kind of like, you know,
add to the Lebron mythos right when you're in the
(23:52):
empty gym and you know they start off. They were
really made a point the Lakers did being very vocal
on the bench, which like to some trash talk. I'll
be honest. I mean, guys like Dwight Howard and these
other guys were just like, you know, talking a lot
of junk to the other team. Which was ky kind
of funny to listen to, right. Um, But Lebron was
making a point of like, look, we're gonna win this
title with defense, so we're gonna talk a lot on defense,
(24:12):
and he's calling out like every single coverage switches, here's
who needs to guard whoever else, and there's nobody else
in the league or in the bubble who's doing it
like that. You know, he's sort of a one of
one type guy. Um. I think it was an example
of you know, his vocal leadership, an example of his
basketball i Q, and just sort of like a peek
behind the curtain that you know, I wouldn't normally get,
(24:34):
you know, typically when I'm sitting at games, you know
the Staples actually, or I guess Crypto dot Com now
has really good media seats, but there's still so much
going on and so much noise you can't always hear
the guys. And it was just it was as if
it was like a mic up segment for the entire game,
where you can kind of always hear what Lebron was saying.
You can also hear him work the refs too, and
you know, he had a lot of different tools in
(24:54):
his his pocket, you know what I mean. He knew
how to butter guys up. He knew how to play
the like I'm frustrated, I'm outraged, I'm the superstar. You
gotta give me that call angle. Him and Chris Paul
both actually just know the intricacies of the rule books
so well that they would get into these really complicated,
convoluted arguments with the officials. I remember one time Chris
(25:16):
Paul actually came over to the guy who was like
the executive, the NBA executive and head of the officials
and like almost like appeal to the referees bosses in
front of them. It's like if you go to the
grocery store and saying, yeah, I know that's like he
did that, like right there Montie McCutcheon, like right there
in front of me, where he's like carrying on this
long debate with Monty McCutcheon about a rule's interpretation. So
(25:37):
you just see how competitive these guys are are up
posted personal, and you realize, like every story that you've
heard about them is probably true. Knowing there would be
a Last Dance style documentary eventually, did you try to
like did you think about restyling your hair? Like that
one bull security guard to just like character yeah, like
a little girl, a little yeah, Jerry Curl in the back.
(25:59):
That character I was was the guy who was whining
about all the cameras being in his way, you know,
because they actually had the same guy who did the
last dance. A lot of that footage was in the
bubble for the last especially for the the last month
or so, following the Lakers around and inevitably, like we
would be in these press conferences, set away from the players,
socially distant so that there wouldn't be any contact, right
and inevitably one of their cameras would like go right
(26:21):
in front of where I was trying to shoot, and
I have to like look at the PR guys and
be like, come on, like help me out here, throw
me a boat. So, you know, it was funny. You know,
everybody's fighting for the same content in that little fish bowl.
But I think that it's going to age well, Like
I would love to see the content that they've got.
Because Lebron was playing so well and he was yeah,
I mean there's such a range of emotions from him.
(26:42):
You know, some days he was like really sad that
he's missing Brownie's birthday. Other days he's missing home. Some
days he's locked in and like just completely punking the
Rockets and going through these crazy like pregame dun't competition
type stuff where he's trying to you know, get his
team energized. Um, you know he's quoting Kobe Bryant saying
the job is not finished after they win the Western
Conference finals. We don't forget Anthony Davis is an amazing
(27:05):
game winner. You know that crazy uh you know three
that he hits. Uh. I mean that was a really
fun you know a scene where they're celebrating and uh,
basically in an empty gym. So there's so many good moments.
If you did a Laker specific documentary from that Bubba run,
that would would hold up and and I think would
look great. You know, we just got a fast forward
like ten years so that it feels like it's like
(27:26):
the nostalgia factor, you know, yeah, right, were getting the
redeemed team one right now. I wonder should they do
something like this for what? You know, there there's a
lot of conversation happening about in season tournaments. Um that
that would be dope if like the in season tournaments
like took place at a neutral location, like not bubble.
(27:46):
People's family could come, but if there was something about
it that like recreated that sort of fraternal atmosphere, I
don't know that. This just got me excited. Like you
describing what was obviously an emotionally spiritually harrowing thing. I'm like,
that sounds so tight. We need to recreate that. But
like there there is contests, No, you're you're onto something. Man.
(28:07):
It just doesn't need to be ninety three days long, right,
like thetation, you know, a nice bite sized event. Right,
So I'm with you. I actually think it would be
cool if they did like a single site something to
kick like maybe they had all like the first week
games were all in the same place. Was kind of
fun is that the players would go to the other
teams games, right, So like you got Damian Lillard like
(28:29):
watching the Lakers from a quart side seat, right, you know,
you have the kind of stuff happening a lot. Chris
Paul loved to watch the other teams play because he's
such a basketball junkie, and so that part of it
was really fun. It kind of felt like Summer League
on steroids a little bit, and it would be cool
if they couldn't incorporate that more regularly, but you know,
you just gotta You just can't have it run for
three months. That's like a week a week with single
(28:53):
elimination or something. Rotate the tournament location each year like
the Super Bowl. I don't know that that's sounds like
it could be super funny. And because this is an
NBA podcast, I think they have to do it right.
Let's take a quick break, we'll come back and we'll
do rapid Fire. Yeah. I don't know if you're ready,
(29:15):
but that's not a statement on you. I don't know
any human can be ready. It's a little bit like
parenthood or you know, like those big life events the
bubble that you can try and mentally prepare yourself. But
it's really it's hard to explain. You're gonna see we'll
be right back and we're back. That sound you here
(29:47):
is the sounding. Yeah, it's it, We're it's it was
supposed to be fast movement. Hey, look, I'm no fully artist,
but uh that's because we're coming up on rapid Fire.
Baby time for Fireheads, the rapid Fire Round of Questions. Now, Ben,
I know you've listened to every episode of the podcast,
(30:09):
so you already know how intense this segment is. But
for those listening for the first time, buckle up your
minds because in this section we are going to be
asking Ben a series of questions. Ben, do not think
too long on it. Just react. Just give us a
response immediately, because then we can move on to the
next question. And what is by far the fastest segment
in podcasting. Like you can you can get into an
(30:31):
athletic stance, you can like do the chop your feet drill,
just to like kind of keep yourself ready for for
what's about to happen. Is hard to prepare you for, ye,
and it's gonna go fast, So don't This isn't some
long winded, meandering conversation. This is like it's like you
get the ball, you just pass it right back. No, no,
(30:53):
I don't want to see any ball under your chin
elbows and I just right back. Okay, here we go,
suck the clock, all right, Jack? You want to go first? Um? Yeah,
I don't know. I'm good like whatever you are. You
you wanted to go first? Yeah, okay, because I've been practicing,
so I'm yeah, actually I've been practicing this. If I
(31:14):
go Okay, yes, this will be very fast if I
go first, Okay, here we go. Then where's Russell Westbrook
at the start of this season with the Lakers? But
I give him twenty games and then I think he's
uh not, he's at home until the trade deadline. Okay, interesting,
So you think, okay, games, how do you think the
(31:35):
Lakers will with all that? Does that free them up?
Does that do anything? I just want to let me asking.
Is that good for the Lakers? I think it's a
good thing for the Lakers man and they were hard
to watch on a nightly basis last year. For me
personally here in l A, I think that having Shrewder
and Beverly just be your rotation guards over Westbrook is
(31:56):
a win. You know, it's a modest win. And I
think if you're the Acres, like, if you make the
plan that's a successful season after last year, I think
you have a better chance of doing it without Westbrook
and he's on a giant expiring contract. Your best chance
of trading him is probably you know, someone's trying to
make a financial move at the deadline. So look, if
he wants to come into camp and try hard and
and kill it, then at least give them that opportunity.
(32:19):
If it's not working out, I think you can feel
free to just pull the John Wallen sent him home. Okay, okay,
alright like that, Um, alright, get ready, this one's gonna
be real fast. What team or group of people would
you like to see have a big, chill style reunion
the way the Showtime Lakers are currently having a reunion
in Hawaii. I believe that looked like fun didn't want
(32:41):
to go. Yeah, oh yeah, you think we should do
a reunion of this podcast in about a year time.
But honestly, I think I'd rather go hang out with
seventy five year old dream shooting the skyhooks, the sky
Man and Magic singing Joy and Pain by Mays and
Frank keep Beverley. Although watching that clip, I realized I
(33:03):
prefer the Rob Base and DJ Easy Rock version of
Joint Pains, But I'm a young man. I think my
answer would be the nineties bulls. I mean, let's get
the last last dance, or like after the last dance,
RENI last show. I could see, you know, if everybody's
drinking MJ's tequila. Um, I could see some punches being thrown.
(33:24):
I could see some people not happy with how they
were portrayed on the show. And if it's not that,
I think you could also go to like the nineties Knicks.
You know, there was a couple of books I think
about them recently. Those guys would be wild to watch
reminisce and I imagine like and you know the Lakers
are going through their showtime practices where they're like running drills.
I mean, I can just picture the Knicks like just
(33:45):
bowling each other over in the paint, ripping down rebounds.
So I don't know, I'm going to nineties Instalgia, Bulls
or Knicks. Yeah, I like that. The Last Dance Reunion
Show like a reality show where they do the reunion
show and everybody like has the kind of a key
Indy Andy through what's the dudeen like interviews them getting messy. Now, Oaks,
(34:06):
Now you had some beef right with John Starks that
we didn't know about until now. Do you want to
do you want to expand on that? And also Anthony
Mason's free throw shooting style. Okay, we'll talk about that
later when't we're back. I'm sorry, And again we have
to remind you, Ben, this is a rapid fire rap question.
So we're going to keep the answers tight going forward.
What are we underrating about the upcoming season, Ben? From
(34:28):
your perspective, just that we're finally back to a normal schedule.
You know, we had the full off season. Everybody got
the full off season, even the teams that went to
the finals. You know, you look at it. Even last year,
you know, the this Sun's and Bucks went pretty deep
in the summer and then they had the Olympics. So
I'm hoping for a fewer injuries. I'm hoping for really
competitive play, and I'm open for an awesome postseason now
(34:50):
that we're finally out of the pandemic delay effect that
kind of get a ruined, but it's certainly altered the
last couple of seasons. Right on the Greatest of All
Talk podcast, you discussed the imminence of super team extinction
based on the recent results of teams like the Lakers
the Nets. Do you think that teams are moving away
from that? Do you feel like it's an overreaction set
(35:14):
that the Nets were unstoppable when they weren't hurt and
hurry up with the answer, yeah, yeah, and make sure
the answer is not as long as that question was
so I I I yes or no? Is what just
yes or no? Please? I think I think that players
drive super teams, and for whatever reason, players haven't been
able to maintain their friendships long enough to actually see
(35:36):
the super team through here over the last few years.
So I think we're in a slightly different era. One
thing to keep an eye on, and I know this
is probably drifting into long windedness, but there could be
another massive rise in the salary cap coming up with
the new Clorking bargaining agreement and the new media rights deals.
So that's really what created Kevin Durant to the Warriors.
Could we see another team use that same blue print
the salary cap goes up really quickly, they aggregate all
(35:59):
the super star talent, bring them all together, and then
create a super team. It's possible, but right now it's
parody rules. Man. It's it's a lot of teams out
there who have a chance to win the title this year.
And finally, the most important question, Ben Jacker Miles, Oh,
come on, guys, it's like choosing between my children, which
(36:19):
I don't own, So I guess you know it's that's unfair.
I'm gonna go. I'm going Jabari to Ben. What kind
of a convenient cop out by me? But it's also quick.
It was quick. No, that's a we we gotta really
that was a great I mean, I think that's easy
for Miles to say as someone who has won this
(36:41):
every other time, like they've said Miles and so like, yeah,
that's fun, and you know, it's a nice change of
pace for him. But for somebody who's still, you know,
just seeking the chip, just seeking that first chip, what's
holding you back? Jack? I mean, man, I don't I
don't know, man, I've been like pages and pages of notes. Uh,
(37:05):
every gesture, every micro gesture was meticulously planned. I put
together my own the rehearsal in my house. Yeah. So
uh didn't God didn't go according to plan, but understandable.
Jabari is great. Um yeah, no, that's cool. That's all right.
It look Jack, you'll get him next time. You'll get
(37:26):
him next time. Well, before we make this any more awkward,
we have to thank our guests. Ben, thank you so
much for stopping by mad boost these. Before we let
you go, we gotta shout out the Las Vegas Aces
on their first w NBA title and also the people
of Aana for a fantastic EuroBasket championship. Doing it again
(37:47):
with a pair of brothers. Ben. Where can people find you?
Follow you, listen to you, read you and all that
good stuff. Yeah, Washington Post dot com, slash sports where
I put all my writing. I actually had a write
up on that EuroBasket final, so you know, if you
want to read about Spain and France and kind of
where they went wrong, it's it's there. And then greatest
of all talk dot com is the bucket and making amazing. Okay, guys,
(38:08):
that was another legendary episode in the books. Please join
us next week where we will get even closer to
the start of the preseason. Follow us on Twitter at
mad boost ease d b O O S t I
e s Exactly. It's very easy. It's the only way
you would spell boosts. We all have this and I'm
taking tips from anybody who wants to see me get
(38:31):
one of these from our guests, you know, straight more
negging artist, Yeah, trying negging at the top and see
we should try to pick up artists the guests the
whole time. We'll try and look, that's a tip for
the listeners. Stay tuned to see how will pick up
(38:51):
artist Jack do on the next episode of Miles and
Jack Got Mad. Said Moosty Pristor is the risor
We're back, and the preseason is less than ten days away,
and we've got one of the all time great team
reunions and plus maybe ones we would want to see
on our own. We've got some news and notes from
the around the league in the anniversary of what was
one of the greatest titles of all time, the title
to discuss with the author of bubble Ball and national
(00:20):
NBA writer for The Washington Post, Ben Goliver. I'm Miles
Gray and I'm Jack O'Brien, and this is godstost. Okay,
we did what we cleaned it up. We cleaned it up.
And what's up, Ben, Ben, Ben, Welcome to the show.
(00:45):
Ben in the building. It's great to be here, gentlemen.
You guys sound excited. I mean, the preseason is right
around the corner. We got Media Day coming up, all
that good stuff. Been kind of a while, how long off?
He yes, and I have as a Laker fan, I
have many questions. I wait with bated to hear the
answers on media day to make sense of what might
be happening this What can they tell you on media
(01:05):
day that you'd be like, oh, oh, okay, I don't
even know that that's the kind of like magical thinking
I have where I can't even articulate a statement that
would saying, allons wait for media day? Just wait, I
want to hear it from them what exactly? But yeah, Ben,
you're coming to us here in l A as well? Right? Absolutely?
(01:29):
I mean, aren't you guys waited for the Russell Westbrook
trade destination? Isn't that what you want to hear on
media day? Are you holding out that it's going to
somehow work out with him? Because they're bringing in every
available point guard. It's getting pretty obvious, right, Yes? I
think so. And while many people are like there's no way,
I'm like, well, I don't think the Lakers would say, hey,
really trying to get rid of this guy? If anybody's interested,
(01:50):
and you might as well go with the positive spin
of like, yeah, we look good, we like what we see.
Let's get into camp and then take it step by step.
All right? So Ben, where are you from? I know
you're living in a but where where did you grow up?
Of kind of what's your fandom? What's your fandom journey? Well?
So I actually grew up in Beaverton, Oregon, which is
pretty much known for being like headquarters of Nikes. So
I was, you know, I had all the Swoosh propaganda
(02:12):
kind of pumping through my veins as a kid. And
I went to college back east, moved back to Portland
after college, and started covering the Blazers, you know, in
two thousand and seven, which was like a really hopeful time.
I mean Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Soldiers, Greg Oden. I actually
got my start because I started a blog spot website,
if you remember, those trying to convince the Blazers to
draft Kevin Durant and I was convinced they were going
(02:34):
to listen to me until they didn't, and I was
almost in tears on on draft night. But so I
kind of kind of used that to get my foot
in the door, and and um, you know, started covering
the NBA kind of at large in in and moved
down here to l A for Kobe's last season. So
I guess I'm a Western Conference guy, if you want
to look at it that way. But um, I have
a lot of good memories from like the Rip City
(02:55):
Blazers era of the early nineties, um as well as
you know, kind of the modern Blazers which went from that.
Brandon LaMarcus Era into the Damian Lillard you know era
as well. Yeah, which Dame was like my standout memory
from the bubble. I don't know if we want to
get into the bubble already, but Dame and uh Jamal
(03:16):
Murray like to just were so like the most unconscious
I've ever seen. Like the best shooting I think I've
ever seen on a basketball court to that point was
them in the bubble was just like so wild man. Well,
and don't forget Tyler Hero too. I Mean, we had
some Bubble guys who just went absolutely nuts. It was
one of the big lessons, like if there's no crowd,
(03:36):
there's no distractions and you're just kind of in like
a pickup type environment, clean Jim. All of a sudden,
all these dudes just like could not miss. I mean
Damian Lillard, I think he went for sixty plus in
one game. Yeah, dragging the Blazers into the playoffs. It
was absolutely nuts, and he was screaming, give me my respect,
you know, put some respect on my name. And remember
that shot that hit the back of the ram, bounced
(03:58):
like ten feet up in the air and then came
down switched through. That was an all time where I was.
I was there for that game too, so yeah, you're
bringing back some really good memories. Man. I mean it
was two years ago, it feels like twenty years ago,
because I mean it was the last time the Lakers
were good, and that feels like a long long time ago.
So yeah, yeah, that was damn in his sixty one
(04:18):
point game that they ended up beating Dallas from the logo,
hit the back of the rim, shot up like above
the backboard, and then just like dropped right through and
it was like, all right, he's got some sort of
spiritual thing going right now that this seems like it
is defined the laws of physics and just whatever leaves
his fingers is going to drop through the basket five
(04:39):
to shoot a minute, and I have to play that's
a bomb. At a certain point, I was really as
a fan, just like, man, I'll have some of that
time in my life. It was also a time when
I remember that game because nothing else was really going
on at that time, and so I just remember everybody
(05:01):
started tweeting at the same time. They were like, oh,
Dames on one, and so you know, twenty points into
a sixty one point game, I just was on it.
You know, watching that and ignoring my three year old
I think at the talking at my shirt Dame Dame,
Dame time, nap time, Dame time. One thing I remember
(05:23):
about that is so when the Blazers clinched the playoffs,
we just coincidentally were like kind of let out of
our little media bubble for one of the only times
the entire experience to get to have like almost like
a team dinner at this pretty fancy restaurant that was
at one of the hotels the players were staying at.
This was like a rare luxury. I mean, they kept
the media super super lockdown the entire experience, and so
(05:45):
the Blazers were actually at that hotel. They were the
only team left from that hotel that hadn't been eliminated.
Because as soon as you got eliminated from the playoffs,
they just got you out of their sap. Like the
next morning you were just gone right Like guys were
like packing up even before the games on some occasions.
And so they had this big like welcome sign like
congratulations Trailblazers, like you're the king of the hotel, and
(06:07):
like they had all like decorated with their you know,
with their logo and then these guys had nowhere else
to celebrate, so they're just like sitting in the lobby
of their hotel, like, you know, having some drinks, sitting
at the bar, like having a good time. You know,
super stoke that they made the playoffs, obviously, because you know,
it would have been a real effort for them to
kind of climb up into it, and yet like at
the same time, probably wishing they could have a cooler
(06:29):
party because like, you know, it was so land that
even like the DORKNBA riders like myself were able to
at least like see what was going on. So um,
you know, that's what happens when you can't go anywhere.
You know. It was a very unique circumstance in that
in that playoffs, Man, I make myself a congratulations Jack,
You're the King of the Hotel sign every time I
checked into a place. I didn't know that they actually
(06:51):
did that for real. That's that makes me very jealous. Yeah,
you gotta you gotta achieve a few more things to
get that. But did you put it as a special
request whenever you check in next time? Then this chicken? Yeah, yeah, congratulations,
you're the King of the Hotel thanks, okay. So, I mean,
I think we just get into it. The Bubble was
a fantastic moment from my perspective as a Laker fan,
(07:12):
but I think for most people as basketball fans, like
it came at a time where we were trying to
figure out what sports we could watch again, how a
league could do something safely, would it rise to the
same level just overall, I mean, as someone who was there,
tell us a little bit about how unique of an
experience that was, because you've obviously seen the league in
every form, whether it's in the arenas and then to
(07:33):
this version of the bubble. Then I'm also going to
ask tell me something interesting about the bubble that I
have not heard, because I know you've probably heard or
seen something. Well. I mean, it was so so weird.
You know. I was really paranoid just about my own
health because you know, there was no vaccines, no boosters
at that point, and I had to fly from l
A to Orlando. So I hopped on that plane with
one of those crazy like shield masks, you know what.
(07:55):
I'm like doubled up on the masks, and I remember,
like Rachel Nichols was, when my flight shoes like doing
the same thing. Like everybody was just like so paranoid
about just yeah, yeah, I mean exactly super duper intense.
You know. I even had the plastic gloves on like
I was Walter White. You know. At that point, it's like,
(08:15):
I'm not gonna miss this experience like I would have. Yeah,
I feel like anybody would have wore like a hazmat suit. Well,
and also just you know, really nervous about like what
happens if you get this disease, because you know, for
those first couple of months, it's easy, they kind of
all runs together, right, but for a lot of people
during those first couple of months, we were all pretty
much locked down, and I was being really really careful.
I mean I was trying to order in all my food,
doing all those kinds of safe you know things from
(08:37):
a safety standpoint. So the idea of flying across country
and then being in the same spot as hundreds of
other people was kind of like mentally intimidating, and then
as soon as you get there, they just throw you
into like basically the ten day quarantine where we couldn't
leave our hotel rooms, and I was just going crazy.
So I actually wound up going viral because I took
a video of myself just pacing back and forth in
my hotel room, eight steps at a time because I
(08:59):
was trying to get Apple Watch steps. So I wound
up walking more than six miles a day even during
the quarantine, just back and forth in the hotel. And
you can, you know, obviously you understand how pathetic that is.
I mean, it's just you're just pacing around your room
for an hour and a half and you dedicated to
closing those rings. Though, yeah, it had to be, and
also to try not to go crazy. You know, it
(09:19):
should be real stir crazy when you're really like that
intensely locked down. But once we got out of it, Uh,
I was really impressed by just the court set up
in terms of how they made it good for television,
right because you don't want to watch an empty court.
They used the technology, they had the cool lights. And
then as a basketball junkie man, it's like, well this
is great. Like I have a front row seat. I
(09:40):
can hear everybody trash talking, right, like there's only ten
twenty people in these uh these games, and like when
the Bucks did their protests, like I was one of
three reporters who was there at tip off, you know
what I mean, what was scheduled to be the tip off.
So the reporter side of me was like, this is incredible,
Like this is I got the lucky ticket to the
really walk a basket ball factor, you know what I mean.
(10:01):
But I mean, there was so many twists and turns
along the way. You guys, remember that Daniel House incident
right where during the middle of a playoff series, he
like gets in trouble for allegedly bringing uh someone into
his hotel room who's not supposed to be there. You've
got the Houston Rockets all up in arms saying this
is like a competitive disadvantage and you know, we need
to be able to have our guys. And then you know,
(10:21):
almost immediately after that incident, the Rockets just pretty much quit.
You know, the Lakers run them off the court the
next couple of games. And so you can look and say,
when are we ever going to have a scenario where
an unauthorized hotel guest will swing a playoff series? We're
never going to have that in the NBA history ever, uh,
And the answer is probably no. But you know, one
(10:42):
of my big takeaways from the whole experience was it
would have been so much worse if they didn't have
a champion in the record books, right, Like, I know
you guys are basketball junkies as well, like, and you know,
growing up, you're reading the history books, and every single
year it says, here's who won the time of right
Lakers in the eighties, Celtics in the eighties, and you
go all the way back to the city these fifties,
there's always a champion. And for me, I was so
(11:03):
glad that they were able to actually crown a champion
and get the thing done safely because having like a
spot or like an asterisk in the record books to
be it would just never would have sat right, you know,
it would have just always like rubbed me the wrong way.
And so it was pretty exciting to, uh, to have
them able to do that. I feel like you could argue, like,
because you know, you sometimes hear people I've never heard
(11:24):
this like said in good faith, but you do hear
people being like that wasn't a real title, or like
to put an asterisk the Mickey crowd. Yeah, I feel
like you could argue that was maybe the purest highest
level basketball tournament of all time because there's like no advantages,
no disadvantages due to travel. It was everything in normal
(11:45):
playoffs is, but just like hyper focused on basketball and
team dynamics with an added level of like psychological experiment
thrown in. But just the ability to focus through that,
I feel like, is just everything a normal NBA championship is,
plus like an added level of difficulty. And I'm not
(12:05):
a Lakers fan, Like I was blown away by what
everybody did that year, but especially the Lakers. I totally
agree with that it was such a mental test, and
not everybody wanted that test, right. Look at the Sixers,
they got out of there as quick as they could sweep,
went home. They were fine with it, you know. You
look at the Clippers. They could have buckled down in
their second round series and gone further, and they were
ready to go home, you know. And then they've even
(12:26):
kind of admitted that after the fact of like they
just didn't really want to be there. Guys were uncomfortable
because they were separated from their family members. Even a
guy like Janice, who had a brand new baby, even
though he was with his two brothers in the bubble,
never really felt like he was, you know, clicking on
all cylinders because he was separated from his family, such
a family type of guy. It was really hard. Man.
I was there for ninety three days. I put on weight,
(12:48):
you know. It was like really like mentally taxing. And
I didn't have to play. I'm just going there to
watch the games. Right, You put on weight and your
leg muscles right from just all those steps. You were
shred by the end. I wish. But it was also
just like the quality of the food there. I don't
want to talk too much negativity about Disney World, but
it wasn't my typical diet. And it's just the stress
(13:09):
of game game day, game day, game day, game day,
and really having no other healthy outlets. You know, we
couldn't go for a ride. You know. We could go fishing,
you know, we can take a little boat right every
once in a while. You could do little things like
that here and there. You could ride a bike if
you wanted. But I mean, this is central Florida in
the middle of July, in August and September. You know,
it's humid, it's nasty. I mean, you know, there's thunderstorms.
(13:31):
You don't always want to go outside. So it was
taxing for sure. Plus the fish you catch might be
flounder from the Little Mermaid you know, yeah exactly, or Nemo.
You never it was catching release, So don't worry no fish.
No fish were harm bey the course of my expeditions,
that's for sure. So like, so, Ben, when you were there,
(13:51):
did you go to the bubble thinking like, well, this
is going to be a fantastic book or was it
more of a like I'm there, I'm actually seeing in
real time how special this is. Because I'm sure on
some level as a journalist you're always thinking on how
to record history and things like that, But how did
you arrive to actually writing the book? No? I mean
I always say I'm kind of like Forrest gun Man.
Stuff just falls in my lap. Like I did not
(14:13):
have any like grand Master, but I would love to
be able to say like, oh yeah, as soon as
I understood, I was going to go there like I
had laid it all out like bits ready. But it
wasn't like that. Man, I went there wondering are we
even going to be there for a week? Is this
gonna work? Are we all gonna get sent home? Or
is somebody going to give up and pull the plug?
Like I had no idea it was gonna work. So
when I did go there, I knew I had a
(14:34):
unique perspective on like everything that was happening, and so
we decided to do something it's pretty rare at the
Washington Post and actually just right like first person journal
entries where I was just kind of describing, like, hey,
here's what I'm doing, here's what it looks like, here's
where they're practicing, here's how the players are acting. And
it was from my own perspective as opposed to like
the typical you know, report and third person type of
(14:55):
voice that I would use. And an agent, you know,
saw those diaries and like, look, dude, you gotta turn
this into a book. This is wild. And at that point,
you know, it was still only a couple of weeks
into it. We still didn't know if the whole thing
was gonna work. But thankfully a publisher bought into the
vision and the deal came together really quickly. And then
the only thing that made it trickier was my boss
(15:16):
and said, hey, look at the Post. They said, when
you're when you're in the bubble, just focus on your
work for us, write the book when the season's over.
And I was like, all right, that's totally fair. You're
paying for me to be down here, no problem. And
I thought I was gonna have a long offseason to
write the book because I thought, oh, they're just gonna
delay the start next season, you know, months and months.
Then they turned back around and like, oh, by the way,
we're starting in December, and so I had to write
that book in like two three months. I mean, just
(15:37):
crank it out. It was pretty hard to do. Um,
but you know, I was glad that I had enough
perspective to no longer be living in it so I
could reflect on it without like two years passing, because
if I tried to write that book now, I would
have forgotten everything that happened, like all the little specifics. So, um,
the whole thing actually came together pretty well, I think
in terms of the timeline. Do you feel like there
(15:59):
is there was something like it just felt like the
shooting was better in the bubble. Do you do you
think that was just like depth of field, like not
having a moving crowd behind the glass backboard or do
you think some people just like really responded like Dame, like, um,
you know some of the players that just yeah, a
(16:19):
d Jimmy Butler, Like I mean Lebron, Donovan Mitchell, Like
there were some players who like really stepped up. But
I mean with Lebron and A d and Jimmy Butler,
even there people who have like stepped up outside, but
I don't know, like Donovan Mitchell was out of his mind.
Uh t. J Warren was out of his mind. Jamal Murray,
I think Jamal Murray that was like I was like,
(16:42):
this is the guy now, Like this is one of
the best two guards in the league now, and you
know he's he's had some injuries, but it just it
did feel like there was a level of shot making
that was almost next level. Yeah, I mean a couple
of things. First of all, no travel makes such a difference.
You know, just after this most recent playoff ground I
think I took thirty seven flights in like three months,
(17:04):
you know, to cover the NBA playoffs, which when those
are going from Boston and San Francisco Boston, I mean,
I understand these guys are flying Charter, but they're logging
so many miles over the course of the playoffs, and
when you take all of that travel out, it's so
much better for their sleep schedules, for their rest and
recovery time period, and I just think it helps them
get into a groove. I think playing in the same
(17:24):
gym over and over and over is important psychologically you're
not making any sort of adjustments. And I think no
crowd means no pressure, you know, like they were just
it's not the same when you have to go and
make shots in Boston Garden Games six like Steph Curry did.
There's one guy who can do that. That's Steph, right.
You you're talking about in a random like basically a
(17:45):
U jim, you know, on the campus of you know,
an amusement park where there's thirty people plus you know,
a couple of a dozen family members watching these big
games and they're not even really allowed to boo, you
know what I mean. You saw that big confrontation between
Russell Westbrook and you know, one of the family members,
and that guy got kicked out like he didn't get
to stay. And there's no heckling involved. And I think
(18:05):
the psychological aspect of it being quiet, calm and then
um no travel, together with the consistency of the gym,
is what really spiked up the shooting percentages and it
helped guys get comfortable. But you're right, there was like
ten twenty guys who all outperformed their typical baseline by
a lot, and you look at the following season, we
(18:26):
still saw that a little bit even when they were
back traveling. I mean, guys like Julius Randall, Zach Lavine,
you know, they cashed in with career years that that
following year. Um, And I do think that the crowd
dynamics played a role on how well those guys shot through. Yeah,
travel is so exhausting, Like every time I travel, I'm like,
why am I the most tired I've ever been in
(18:46):
my life? So, yeah, that makes what is your three
point percentage going down? Yeah? My three percent? I thought
you were going to say there are two guys who
can knew what the game sixth thing in Boston Garden
and mentioned me. But that's fine, Like I get it
because I've improved it. But one of the story, Yeah, yeah,
you know who else loved to know travel though? The
referees because they have to slum it, you know, on
(19:08):
the commercial airlines. Those guys, so they were whining because
they didn't get any Marriott points, right, but they love
the fact that they didn't have to take the flights
and it's like, you know their trade off honestly, I
mean after you go through the playoff grime, you know
you understand. Like I mean, every summer I come out
and I just feel like I'm you know, my head
is spinning, like I need to almost like detox from
traveling in basketball for the playoffs. You're like, what time
(19:30):
zone am I even in right now? An NBA ref
needs to start a travel blog because like they probably
are the most seasoned at traveling commercial and you know,
just putting on their headphones because everybody's gonna recognize them.
I want to talk to them about stuff, so you know,
just how to do it without talking to anyone there
towards boding up in the air basically exactly, they're like, no,
(19:53):
you don't want this flight. The other one. They got
better hardware on this airline. All right, let's take a
quick break and we'll be back to discuss even more
with then right after this and we're back. And obviously,
(20:14):
as a vowed Laker fan, the bubble playoffs the whole
that was fantastic for me. I got to see Anthony
Davis do things I couldn't believe, and I to this day,
I hold those memories dearly as I wear my A
D Bubble jersey. But for you, I mean, you this
your whole experience. Basically, you were there, you got to celebrate,
(20:35):
or you at least got hit with the celebratory champagne.
Do I have this correct as part of your bubble experience? Yeah,
that's I mean, that's why you should feel sorry for
your Lakers. They're the only team that won a title,
had nobody to celebrate with and then had to pick
on the media members with the champagne bottles and they
were looking around to spray anybody. And you know, I
had the camera rolling when Lebron came out of locker
room with the I think he was like double fisting
(20:57):
bottles maybe at that point, and he just absolutely soaked me,
I mean my suit, so that we all rushed out
of the bubble like as soon as it was over,
like the next morning, I know, I'm gonna fly home.
And when I got home, my suit still smelled like
that champagne like, and I was you know, I had
it laundered and finally like it went back to normal,
but um just completely doused me. It was very memorable moment.
(21:20):
And just an incredible run. I'm never going to forget
that Lakers playoff run because of the amazing access we
had of the players during like warm ups, pregame, post
game and that kind of stuff where you know, Lebron's
on the court more than an hour before the game,
he's going through a meditation session, like, you know, trying
to get himself mentally prepared for these games. Um, these
guys physically are are doing whatever they need to do
(21:42):
to kind of be able to play every other night
because they condensed that playoff schedule, uh, to you know,
fit it in and quickly before you know, mostly before
football season started. And to just watch the amount of
just sheer hours he would put it to his game
that we were able to actually witness them, and that's
spot was it was special. I Mean, everybody knows he's
one of the greatest players of all time. He's always
(22:04):
going to be in that kind of a conversation. And
you know, to me, having that happened like right after
watching the Last Dance where you had so much behind
the scenes footage of MJ, it was just kind of
like a really cool special experience for like a basketball
door where you're like Yeah, there's gonna be documentaries made
about this, Like maybe I'm gonna be in the background,
like Filman Lebron. As you know, they were going through
some crazy pregame routine. But um, that's kind of what
(22:27):
I'll remember more than anything about that run. They were dominant.
I mean, they wiped just about everybody off the court,
and they got lucky, you know, in terms of Miami
not really being at full strength in the finals, you know,
took place. But still Lebron was some really just all
time classic performances forty plus points and some key games
to bring that title home. And like you said, a
d didn't this shot the whole time. Even k CP
(22:49):
was getting highlights, you know, big corner three's and daggers
and all this kind of stuff. So having watched that
team for that entire season, you know, because I'm here
in l A, I was never convinced that they were
going to win the title. Like, even going into the bubble,
I thought maybe the Clippers should be viewed as the
favorites here, you know, kind of like the hot new
thing in town. And Lebron delivered. And we didn't start
(23:10):
that great in there either, So that was definitely a moment,
I was like, we were doing so well in the
build up and then we got there. I I my
confidence wavered a bit as well, but they then came background.
But to your point about seeing, you know, seeing things
that you normally wouldn't. What's an example of like your
understanding of what the player you thought Lebron was or
the squad that the Lakers were at the time, and
(23:31):
then the things you saw that we're sort of adding
a little more texture to like your analysis of that. Well,
you know a lot of times, you know, you hear
these stories about how Lebron knows the other team's entire plays,
all their coverages, and he's able to call them out right,
and you know, you sometimes wonder like our people laying
it on thick, you know, to kind of like, you know,
add to the Lebron mythos right when you're in the
(23:52):
empty gym and you know they start off. They were
really made a point the Lakers did being very vocal
on the bench, which like to some trash talk. I'll
be honest. I mean, guys like Dwight Howard and these
other guys were just like, you know, talking a lot
of junk to the other team. Which was ky kind
of funny to listen to, right. Um, But Lebron was
making a point of like, look, we're gonna win this
title with defense, so we're gonna talk a lot on defense,
(24:12):
and he's calling out like every single coverage switches, here's
who needs to guard whoever else, and there's nobody else
in the league or in the bubble who's doing it
like that. You know, he's sort of a one of
one type guy. Um. I think it was an example
of you know, his vocal leadership, an example of his
basketball i Q, and just sort of like a peek
behind the curtain that you know, I wouldn't normally get,
(24:34):
you know, typically when I'm sitting at games, you know
the Staples actually, or I guess Crypto dot Com now
has really good media seats, but there's still so much
going on and so much noise you can't always hear
the guys. And it was just it was as if
it was like a mic up segment for the entire game,
where you can kind of always hear what Lebron was saying.
You can also hear him work the refs too, and
you know, he had a lot of different tools in
(24:54):
his his pocket, you know what I mean. He knew
how to butter guys up. He knew how to play
the like I'm frustrated, I'm outraged, I'm the superstar. You
gotta give me that call angle. Him and Chris Paul
both actually just know the intricacies of the rule books
so well that they would get into these really complicated,
convoluted arguments with the officials. I remember one time Chris
(25:16):
Paul actually came over to the guy who was like
the executive, the NBA executive and head of the officials
and like almost like appeal to the referees bosses in
front of them. It's like if you go to the
grocery store and saying, yeah, I know that's like he
did that, like right there Montie McCutcheon, like right there
in front of me, where he's like carrying on this
long debate with Monty McCutcheon about a rule's interpretation. So
(25:37):
you just see how competitive these guys are are up
posted personal, and you realize, like every story that you've
heard about them is probably true. Knowing there would be
a Last Dance style documentary eventually, did you try to
like did you think about restyling your hair? Like that
one bull security guard to just like character yeah, like
a little girl, a little yeah, Jerry Curl in the back.
(25:59):
That character I was was the guy who was whining
about all the cameras being in his way, you know,
because they actually had the same guy who did the
last dance. A lot of that footage was in the
bubble for the last especially for the the last month
or so, following the Lakers around and inevitably, like we
would be in these press conferences, set away from the players,
socially distant so that there wouldn't be any contact, right
and inevitably one of their cameras would like go right
(26:21):
in front of where I was trying to shoot, and
I have to like look at the PR guys and
be like, come on, like help me out here, throw
me a boat. So, you know, it was funny. You know,
everybody's fighting for the same content in that little fish bowl.
But I think that it's going to age well, Like
I would love to see the content that they've got.
Because Lebron was playing so well and he was yeah,
I mean there's such a range of emotions from him.
(26:42):
You know, some days he was like really sad that
he's missing Brownie's birthday. Other days he's missing home. Some
days he's locked in and like just completely punking the
Rockets and going through these crazy like pregame dun't competition
type stuff where he's trying to you know, get his
team energized. Um, you know he's quoting Kobe Bryant saying
the job is not finished after they win the Western
Conference finals. We don't forget Anthony Davis is an amazing
(27:05):
game winner. You know that crazy uh you know three
that he hits. Uh. I mean that was a really
fun you know a scene where they're celebrating and uh,
basically in an empty gym. So there's so many good moments.
If you did a Laker specific documentary from that Bubba run,
that would would hold up and and I think would
look great. You know, we just got a fast forward
like ten years so that it feels like it's like
(27:26):
the nostalgia factor, you know, yeah, right, were getting the
redeemed team one right now. I wonder should they do
something like this for what? You know, there there's a
lot of conversation happening about in season tournaments. Um that
that would be dope if like the in season tournaments
like took place at a neutral location, like not bubble.
(27:46):
People's family could come, but if there was something about
it that like recreated that sort of fraternal atmosphere, I
don't know that. This just got me excited. Like you
describing what was obviously an emotionally spiritually harrowing thing. I'm like,
that sounds so tight. We need to recreate that. But
like there there is contests, No, you're you're onto something. Man.
(28:07):
It just doesn't need to be ninety three days long, right,
like thetation, you know, a nice bite sized event. Right,
So I'm with you. I actually think it would be
cool if they did like a single site something to
kick like maybe they had all like the first week
games were all in the same place. Was kind of
fun is that the players would go to the other
teams games, right, So like you got Damian Lillard like
(28:29):
watching the Lakers from a quart side seat, right, you know,
you have the kind of stuff happening a lot. Chris
Paul loved to watch the other teams play because he's
such a basketball junkie, and so that part of it
was really fun. It kind of felt like Summer League
on steroids a little bit, and it would be cool
if they couldn't incorporate that more regularly, but you know,
you just gotta You just can't have it run for
three months. That's like a week a week with single
(28:53):
elimination or something. Rotate the tournament location each year like
the Super Bowl. I don't know that that's sounds like
it could be super funny. And because this is an
NBA podcast, I think they have to do it right.
Let's take a quick break, we'll come back and we'll
do rapid Fire. Yeah. I don't know if you're ready,
(29:15):
but that's not a statement on you. I don't know
any human can be ready. It's a little bit like
parenthood or you know, like those big life events the
bubble that you can try and mentally prepare yourself. But
it's really it's hard to explain. You're gonna see we'll
be right back and we're back. That sound you here
(29:47):
is the sounding. Yeah, it's it, We're it's it was
supposed to be fast movement. Hey, look, I'm no fully artist,
but uh that's because we're coming up on rapid Fire.
Baby time for Fireheads, the rapid Fire Round of Questions. Now, Ben,
I know you've listened to every episode of the podcast,
(30:09):
so you already know how intense this segment is. But
for those listening for the first time, buckle up your
minds because in this section we are going to be
asking Ben a series of questions. Ben, do not think
too long on it. Just react. Just give us a
response immediately, because then we can move on to the
next question. And what is by far the fastest segment
in podcasting. Like you can you can get into an
(30:31):
athletic stance, you can like do the chop your feet drill,
just to like kind of keep yourself ready for for
what's about to happen. Is hard to prepare you for, ye,
and it's gonna go fast, So don't This isn't some
long winded, meandering conversation. This is like it's like you
get the ball, you just pass it right back. No, no,
(30:53):
I don't want to see any ball under your chin
elbows and I just right back. Okay, here we go,
suck the clock, all right, Jack? You want to go first? Um? Yeah,
I don't know. I'm good like whatever you are. You
you wanted to go first? Yeah, okay, because I've been practicing,
so I'm yeah, actually I've been practicing this. If I
(31:14):
go Okay, yes, this will be very fast if I
go first, Okay, here we go. Then where's Russell Westbrook
at the start of this season with the Lakers? But
I give him twenty games and then I think he's
uh not, he's at home until the trade deadline. Okay, interesting,
So you think, okay, games, how do you think the
(31:35):
Lakers will with all that? Does that free them up?
Does that do anything? I just want to let me asking.
Is that good for the Lakers? I think it's a
good thing for the Lakers man and they were hard
to watch on a nightly basis last year. For me
personally here in l A, I think that having Shrewder
and Beverly just be your rotation guards over Westbrook is
(31:56):
a win. You know, it's a modest win. And I
think if you're the Acres, like, if you make the
plan that's a successful season after last year, I think
you have a better chance of doing it without Westbrook
and he's on a giant expiring contract. Your best chance
of trading him is probably you know, someone's trying to
make a financial move at the deadline. So look, if
he wants to come into camp and try hard and
and kill it, then at least give them that opportunity.
(32:19):
If it's not working out, I think you can feel
free to just pull the John Wallen sent him home. Okay, okay,
alright like that, Um, alright, get ready, this one's gonna
be real fast. What team or group of people would
you like to see have a big, chill style reunion
the way the Showtime Lakers are currently having a reunion
in Hawaii. I believe that looked like fun didn't want
(32:41):
to go. Yeah, oh yeah, you think we should do
a reunion of this podcast in about a year time.
But honestly, I think I'd rather go hang out with
seventy five year old dream shooting the skyhooks, the sky
Man and Magic singing Joy and Pain by Mays and
Frank keep Beverley. Although watching that clip, I realized I
(33:03):
prefer the Rob Base and DJ Easy Rock version of
Joint Pains, But I'm a young man. I think my
answer would be the nineties bulls. I mean, let's get
the last last dance, or like after the last dance,
RENI last show. I could see, you know, if everybody's
drinking MJ's tequila. Um, I could see some punches being thrown.
(33:24):
I could see some people not happy with how they
were portrayed on the show. And if it's not that,
I think you could also go to like the nineties Knicks.
You know, there was a couple of books I think
about them recently. Those guys would be wild to watch
reminisce and I imagine like and you know the Lakers
are going through their showtime practices where they're like running drills.
I mean, I can just picture the Knicks like just
(33:45):
bowling each other over in the paint, ripping down rebounds.
So I don't know, I'm going to nineties Instalgia, Bulls
or Knicks. Yeah, I like that. The Last Dance Reunion
Show like a reality show where they do the reunion
show and everybody like has the kind of a key
Indy Andy through what's the dudeen like interviews them getting messy. Now, Oaks,
(34:06):
Now you had some beef right with John Starks that
we didn't know about until now. Do you want to
do you want to expand on that? And also Anthony
Mason's free throw shooting style. Okay, we'll talk about that
later when't we're back. I'm sorry, And again we have
to remind you, Ben, this is a rapid fire rap question.
So we're going to keep the answers tight going forward.
What are we underrating about the upcoming season, Ben? From
(34:28):
your perspective, just that we're finally back to a normal schedule.
You know, we had the full off season. Everybody got
the full off season, even the teams that went to
the finals. You know, you look at it. Even last year,
you know, the this Sun's and Bucks went pretty deep
in the summer and then they had the Olympics. So
I'm hoping for a fewer injuries. I'm hoping for really
competitive play, and I'm open for an awesome postseason now
(34:50):
that we're finally out of the pandemic delay effect that
kind of get a ruined, but it's certainly altered the
last couple of seasons. Right on the Greatest of All
Talk podcast, you discussed the imminence of super team extinction
based on the recent results of teams like the Lakers
the Nets. Do you think that teams are moving away
from that? Do you feel like it's an overreaction set
(35:14):
that the Nets were unstoppable when they weren't hurt and
hurry up with the answer, yeah, yeah, and make sure
the answer is not as long as that question was
so I I I yes or no? Is what just
yes or no? Please? I think I think that players
drive super teams, and for whatever reason, players haven't been
able to maintain their friendships long enough to actually see
(35:36):
the super team through here over the last few years.
So I think we're in a slightly different era. One
thing to keep an eye on, and I know this
is probably drifting into long windedness, but there could be
another massive rise in the salary cap coming up with
the new Clorking bargaining agreement and the new media rights deals.
So that's really what created Kevin Durant to the Warriors.
Could we see another team use that same blue print
the salary cap goes up really quickly, they aggregate all
(35:59):
the super star talent, bring them all together, and then
create a super team. It's possible, but right now it's
parody rules. Man. It's it's a lot of teams out
there who have a chance to win the title this year.
And finally, the most important question, Ben Jacker Miles, Oh,
come on, guys, it's like choosing between my children, which
(36:19):
I don't own, So I guess you know it's that's unfair.
I'm gonna go. I'm going Jabari to Ben. What kind
of a convenient cop out by me? But it's also quick.
It was quick. No, that's a we we gotta really
that was a great I mean, I think that's easy
for Miles to say as someone who has won this
(36:41):
every other time, like they've said Miles and so like, yeah,
that's fun, and you know, it's a nice change of
pace for him. But for somebody who's still, you know,
just seeking the chip, just seeking that first chip, what's
holding you back? Jack? I mean, man, I don't I
don't know, man, I've been like pages and pages of notes. Uh,
(37:05):
every gesture, every micro gesture was meticulously planned. I put
together my own the rehearsal in my house. Yeah. So
uh didn't God didn't go according to plan, but understandable.
Jabari is great. Um yeah, no, that's cool. That's all right.
It look Jack, you'll get him next time. You'll get
(37:26):
him next time. Well, before we make this any more awkward,
we have to thank our guests. Ben, thank you so
much for stopping by mad boost these. Before we let
you go, we gotta shout out the Las Vegas Aces
on their first w NBA title and also the people
of Aana for a fantastic EuroBasket championship. Doing it again
(37:47):
with a pair of brothers. Ben. Where can people find you?
Follow you, listen to you, read you and all that
good stuff. Yeah, Washington Post dot com, slash sports where
I put all my writing. I actually had a write
up on that EuroBasket final, so you know, if you
want to read about Spain and France and kind of
where they went wrong, it's it's there. And then greatest
of all talk dot com is the bucket and making amazing. Okay, guys,
(38:08):
that was another legendary episode in the books. Please join
us next week where we will get even closer to
the start of the preseason. Follow us on Twitter at
mad boost ease d b O O S t I
e s Exactly. It's very easy. It's the only way
you would spell boosts. We all have this and I'm
taking tips from anybody who wants to see me get
(38:31):
one of these from our guests, you know, straight more
negging artist, Yeah, trying negging at the top and see
we should try to pick up artists the guests the
whole time. We'll try and look, that's a tip for
the listeners. Stay tuned to see how will pick up
(38:51):
artist Jack do on the next episode of Miles and
Jack Got Mad. Said Moosty Pristor is the risor
The Daily Zeitgeist News
Hosts And Creators
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