October 12, 2017 • 43 mins
In episode 4, Jack & Miles are joined by 'Yo Is This Racist's' Andrew Ti to discuss the US Soccer upset, how to deal with trolls, a Puerto Rico check-in, wildfires, the Red Cross, & more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to the Daily Like Guys
for Thursday, October twelve, two thousand seventeen. My name is
Jack O'Brien. I am joined as always by my co host,
Mr Miles grag was I must, and we are thrilled
to be joined by Andrew T, host of Yo was
this racist? What's up? What's up? Did you have to push?
(00:21):
I'm so used to being the only Asian person in
a podcast For that, I feel like, thank you, yeah
you no worries. Just got about to hold down two races.
I know, I got black and Japan. Yeah, you're busy
tomorrow morning, I'll do some a little more Bonnie uh
this morning, and everybody with the ohio good. I must
For all my Japanese listeners out there, yeah, I just
(00:43):
pretended to know what you said. YE was like, yeah, cool,
cool cool. Yeah all right, Andrew, Uh for our foolish
listeners who don't listen to you as this racist so
they can get to know you quickly. What is the
weirdest thing in your search history from this week for
(01:03):
this day? All right? This is so this is a thing.
When y'all asked me about this, I was like, oh yeah,
this would be funny. And then I realized there's nothing
in my search history from this week because I deleted
google ability or not ability the ability. I told them
they couldn't they shouldn't track my ship anymore. So what
I do have for my search history is um basically
(01:27):
five survivalist videos and then me abruptly cutting off Google
videos shook yeah, and nothing crazy. What happened was a
couple like a couple of weeks ago. Clearly I was like,
I'm gonna start getting into like I need to learn
how to like camp and ship. Like I was like
a not eagle scout, but I was I did a
(01:48):
boy scout thing for a while. I'll look at you,
and so I was like I could get back into this.
So it's just like a but like a variety of
like knife and gun reviews, and then all of a sudden,
I was like, you know what, I'm out drop off
the grid. The military is definitely something happened in there
where you're just like knife gun, did someone say something
You're just like I don't want I don't want people
to build a case again. I mean it was the mindset, no,
(02:10):
you know what. I think it was also like look
is it's never that fun to watch a bunch of
gun videos, but it kind of is. And I think
I was just like, I'm watching too many gun videos. Um, alright,
what's your over under? Um? I came up with a
bunch of these overrated, overrated anti heroes. I feel like
(02:33):
I feel like we're in a time where everyone thinks,
like just having a bad protagonist is enough. And I
think what we've learned is that because of either something
innate to how storytelling works or because of how Western
culture has indoctrinated us, like there's no anti heroes. They're
just the heroes. Everyone fucking loves these people, even though
(02:54):
they're quote unquote bad up to and including Mr President.
You know, it's, oh, we love to hate him. We
love to hate him. I think I'm in love with
this man. That's what happens. It's so entertaining. My classic
example is like every it's like Matthew Weiner can say
whatever the funk he wants about who he thinks Don
(03:15):
Draper is. The reality is people men, especially like want
to be Don Draper. And it's like it didn't the
message and take It's like this is about how funked
up this generation is not really Yeah, John Hamm is
the voice of like all luxury goods from now until
like every people just forget that. I mean it's like
if if we forget like again, I'm going to this
(03:37):
well twice in one sentence already, But it's like if
John Hamm, we're less handsome, Don Draper becomes Donald Trump,
Like that's exactly who that person becomes. So it's like,
you know, other overrated, a sociopath who's empty on the inside, yeah,
and who thinks he's who's like is like hiding something
(03:59):
but like needs to be better than everyone else. And
it's a hurt, wounded little boy. Yeah. And like in
Breaking Bad, when I remember when Skyler like started having
completely reasonable objections to her husband, to her husband's being
a drug dealer, Everyone's like, god, she sucks. She's yeah. Yeah,
(04:20):
it's like we want that narrative to continue, and we
have been again either trained or like, I don't know,
fucking lots of people in this stupidest town will argue
that narrative is innate but to human experience, but like
we always root for the protagonist of the story. And
it's like I was arguing about this the other day.
(04:41):
It's like Breaking Bad is an interesting show if Jesse
Pinkmin is a young Latino kid and it's told from
his perspective, right, Not that I know people love it,
but it's a better show in that case. Hey, let's
talk about that out the air man. We got something,
um here some what's under underrated corporate wokeness. I know
(05:03):
everyone hates it, but there's a part of me and look,
I don't think it's good, but I think it's underrated.
So like anytime corporations do the right thing for a
clearly blatant profit oriented reason, I'm kind of for it.
I'm just like, I will take it. And it's not
as bad as like I think we all step forward
(05:24):
is Yeah, it's just like it's a like a third
derivative reflection of society because their only concern is, like
do do most of the people think about think of
this as the right thing to do, and so we
will follow suit after it's like so so so safe
for us to do it, but it's still a powerful thing.
(05:46):
So I'm just like, I'll take it again. Progress it's
capitalism working. Yeah, yeah, that's when capitalism works. Um, so underrated,
not good, but underrated. I love it. Man, you could
have a whole podcast of you just doing over underrated things.
I'm sure that's a podcast somewhere right. I can I
(06:06):
run down the couple other ones that I thought were
funny that I wrote down. Is overrated is how well
all of us think we're going to do in a
nuclear war? And underrated pestilence the horseman. I think he
gets a lot of like a short shrift. And when
when the apocalypse do come, most of us are going
(06:26):
to succumb to pestilence. YEA, none of the other ship.
We all think it's we're going to go out in
a war or death or famine. Pestilence it drives up
eat younger nails. I was just listening to, Uh they're
reading an article about the Cuban missile crisis, and like
they were briefing JFK about like the horrifying things that
(06:47):
happened to you, like when you're exposed to radiation, and
like one of them is like basically sores start opening
up and then you get infections and that's how we're
all gonna die. Yeah all right, yeah, yeah, um hey,
speaking of this uh crazy town that we live in,
we are currently in week two of the Harvey Weinstein
(07:07):
saga of just revelation after revelation. Now it appears that
he was basically a very systematized serial offender. Uh. All
of these women's stories sounds almost identical. He had like
(07:28):
assistants who are complicit in it, executives at Merrimax who
are complicit in it um. And they all have the
same details of like, you know, the robe in his
he comes out in a robe in the hotel room
or whether it's uh their apartment or his apartment or
a hotel room. Uh, asks for a massage. Just all
the creepy ship that is like all part of his
(07:51):
weird system. Uh. And it turns out Gwyneth Paltrow experienced
at Angelina, Joe Lee experienced it like basically everybody in
this town has experienced Heather Graham has experienced it um.
But the real issue that we have to focus on
at this point, or at least that CNN was focusing
(08:14):
on a couple of days ago, is how long it
took Obama and Clinton to respond to you guys. Just
I mean, what is up with these people? Their silence
is deafening? Man, I mean, yeah, is it is there
a window that you have to hit before you aren't
viewed as a supporter of the crime. I don't that's
(08:37):
like the question. They're right, it's like, well it took
five days, so what does that mean? Like, right, what's
the statute of limitations? Right? Look, I mean I feel
like this is like the bad thing in exactly, it's
exacerbated by the fact that, like you don't pay consequences
as a man or typically like that. That's the real
(09:00):
thing is like this is hugely atypical, and like a
thing that's been happening on Twitter today is a lot
of like, you know, a lot of my close personal
friends who are like in the business. Just this is
like really talented women that I'm very close friends with business.
Um no, but they they're coming out with their own
personal stories, you know, of ship that has happened to
them in this town. Like it's not it's not common
(09:24):
that people get punished for this behavior. Man, Sorry, it's
not common that men get punished for this behavior. And
so there's a real calculus among public figures of you know,
and I'm not saying this is right, but it's like, look,
we for from Obama and Clinton's perspective, it's like waiting
for to see where the preponderance of public opinion lands. Yeah,
(09:49):
and it wasn't a guarantee that everyone was going to
be like one scene a monster. The last time this happened,
we elected that person to the highest office in the country. Yeah,
it's it's like, why would you expect why would you
expect Harvey want seem to pay, like pay for his crimes.
So it's like, Okay, everyone's a coward, but everyone is
(10:11):
exactly the level of coward that is about fair. I
think I don't know. Yeah, well, and I think we
were saying earlier to it that this tactic is employed
on both sides, left and right in terms of like
why long did take Trump to to speak out on
this or how long did it take Republicans to speak
out on Trump shit? And so I guess CNN, in
their attempt to seem fair and balanced, was like trying
(10:33):
to use that same argument now against them. But it's
like that is kind of the interesting version of this
because it's like whatever conversations Clinton you know, and her
advisors were having, or Clinton you know, all both Clinton's,
Obama's everyone and their advice we're having about like do
we say something I don't know, like potentially want Steen
is our base, like he's a big donor. That's the
(10:54):
exact same conversation Trump had to have about neo Nazis, Right,
It's like, wow, this will blow over, Like we don't
of course we don't like the neo Nazis, but like,
I don't know that maybe this will blow over, like
you know, I don't want to upset them. Yeah, it's like, oh,
we can't know this kind of there are there are guys. Um.
You know, that's obviously the most charitable reading of what
could have gone on in the Trump wine house, but
(11:16):
you know, yeah, you kind of see it a little bit.
It's like he was hoping, just like Clinton and Obama,
we're hoping that this would blow over. He was hoping
charlotte Ville would blow over it. But I still don't
understand how it took Obama that long, because I mean,
he has daughters, and as we've learned in all this,
you have to have a daughter to understand that sexual
assault is wrong. I don't. Yeah, That's why I'm confused
(11:38):
about the holding. I'm like, I'm not even a father.
I'm like it's bad, right, I mean, I have a
I have a dog who's a woman. I guess I'm
like almost there um that that is has been every
every public figure. But it's also like like not justifying.
(12:00):
But there is like a good slippery slope that we're on,
which hopefully ends with equality. But we're currently on a
slippery slope where many people who we like very much
have done terrible things. I mean, like, hopefully this is
like a warning to too many of those people, cut
(12:21):
your ship out, get help if you truly cannot help yourself.
But like, you know, there's that, but but there are
many dominoes that will fall, I mean, you know, everyone,
and not to make it a generational thing, because this
happens in our generation and people younger than us. Sexism
is rampant, bigotry is rampant. But like these people like
(12:42):
got away with it for much longer. Bill Cosby got
away with things because you know, Hugh Hefner got away
with things because it was like that's just how it goes.
And like we're we're at a difficult inflection point where
a lot of hopefully we're at an inflection point and
the other thing that's going to happen is like maybe
back to the status quo, like right, like we've always done. Yeah,
(13:04):
it's an uncomfortable inflection point, but hopefully it is an
inflection point. Yeah, keeps that's more uncomfortable for entitled people
who have used their fame to abuse people. Um hey, hey,
speaking of none of that. Uh, the US failed to
reach the World I learned a couple of days ago
(13:25):
and immediately did not give a shit about that story
at all. But Miles, you are a soccer fan and football. Yeah,
I'm a fan of the foote at NFL fans the football.
I mean, yes, look, I I'm a huge soccer I
(13:46):
guess I'll use that words. Do you call the NFL
gridiron football or American Which which of the winker turves?
That's just that's a ship that's on TV when I'm
hungover on Sunday, not even like really ever watching it.
But yes, So the US failed to get into the
World Cup for the first time since like the US
(14:08):
stay well, the men's as because the women they're doing
their thing and they're they're they've they figured it out.
The men's team, however, has not. Um and yes, they
failed to get in now as a as a soccer
fan and an American, you always want your team to
be good. You always wanted your team to do well.
And you know, for nearly any other sport where there's
(14:29):
a national team that he used competes in, we're like
crushing ship. But soccer is just like that one nut
that we haven't been able to crack quite yet. And
it seemed like we were on pace to do that
when we had the manager before Bruce Rene and this
man named Jurgen Klinsman who was a German UH soccer
who used to play soccer also for a terrible team
for called Tottenham anyway that we can get into that
(14:49):
la a lot of editorialized anyway, But he came over
here and he really saw an opportunity with the US
to actually sort of nudget into the right direction by
you know, encouraging uh you know, minorities and immigrant populations
in the US to begin participating in the sport, because
clearly there are a lot of people who come from
UH soccer loving countries in this like in the US.
(15:10):
So I said, hey, let's get these kids playing, let's
start let's start weeding that into the fabric of the
national team. Uh He was also encouraging players to leave
the MLS because objectively, the MLS is not a very
competitive league. It's just it's just well it's very competitive,
but it's at a very low level. Yea, which it's
like the fourth fifth best league, not the world, not
(15:31):
even try like between the second and first. The second
has a better lea. England has a better league, France
has a better league, Spain has a better league. But
those those leagues all have sub leagues, and I would
those even those sub leagues would break the MLS between
the second and third tier of sub leagues of leagues. Yeah,
(15:52):
and like England probably, um And so you know, and
MLS has really become a place for like really great
European players to just had a check and retire. And
they're like, yo, I can phone it in. I look
like a god, so perfect. So anyway, a lot of
his attitudes towards like American soccer and the sort of
need to be in revolutionizing the sport, it definitely rubbed
(16:12):
certain people the wrong way. Whether it was players who
were like, oh, how dare they say the MLS is
blah bla, there's some great players here, yo, family, like
look at it objectively, none of these people, they're not
vuying for feeful World Player of the Year. The talent
is just simply not there. Um. So basically after uh,
you know, there was a few dips in form because
obviously change doesn't come instantly. Rome wasn't built in a day. Uh,
(16:35):
you know, they were He had back to back losses
to Mexico, which is humiliating for US soccer fans because
that's like that's a no no, uh, and also lost
to Costa Rica. Those are kind of became the last
straws and they fired him, and some of these people
in the Old Guard who just did not really agree
with Klinsman, found a reason to be like, look at this,
I mean, we're we're failing like that. He's he's putting
(16:55):
us in jeopardy. We gotta get rid of him. And
the Old Guard believes in what like MLS soccer MLS
great kids who like come up through the soccer program
where like their parents have to pay a thousand dollars
to get them on like club teams and exactly because
you know, he was even saying like, look, you got
you have kids, whether like you know, from Mexico and
things like that, who are are who are eligible to
(17:16):
play for the US, Like let's let's get these kids
playing too, like they get the sport in a completely
different way. Um, and yeah, he was really trying to
democratize I think the way soccer was being played here
and because you know, if you think about it, in
like urban areas, there's no soccer field for you to
go play, like that's for the like the suburbs and
stuff like that. So he was really trying to he
(17:36):
was he was understanding and identifying that there was a
lot of untapped talent and things like that. And I
think a lot of it too is like you know,
one of the most legendary US players, Landing Donovan, he
also had like a bit of a problem with him
to uh you know he cut him from the national
Yeah exactly, and it was like, oh my god, how
dare he? But like London, Yeah, he was getting old.
(17:57):
And also that Landa Donovan is the type of guy
who was the best in the US. He went to
Germany basically realized that he was not the best ever
and he got benched and he was like like im
going back to it was like a cry baby, like
he he didn't really go he didn't take the time
to understand that, you know, he had some weaknesses that
(18:18):
he could work on, And I think that was more
indicative of sort of how a lot of older US
soccer people view how we do things here, is like,
we're not the problem, it's the it's the wee. I
think that matters too. It's like like the fact that
the US, especially men's but probably actually both national teams
do not represent the people who are strapping on cleats
(18:39):
on Saturday mornings like in this country. Because it's it's
why it looks like a fucking frat like like the US. Yeah,
it's very Abercrombie and it's like fucking soccer players in
this country. If you count them up, they're a lot browner.
There are a lot, you know, they're a lot blacker
and browner. Then, like the team would suggest, and I
(19:01):
mean credit to that team, because that that the complexion
literally of the team has begun to change and sure,
but there's still very much it's not representative, not at all, Yeah, exactly. Um,
So essentially we were left with this bum coach Bruce Arena,
who I can talk about all day. He's been he's
been the manager of the U s. It's a lot
like Steve Man, like a real sloppy went uh you know,
(19:26):
uh marched us to a slow death march, to the
point where now we are completely we're not we didn't
qualify for the World Cup. Fans are angry as fun
and they're trying to make sense of everything. And I
just to me, it was just very interesting because I
honestly feel that getting rid of your kinsman was a
bad move. He was really trying to take those steps
necessary for the US to begin to compete at that
(19:48):
global level. Um, and it seems like our our attitude
in this country just sort of really showed itself. And
how how how we how quickly we dismissed him, just
after a few bumps in the road. Yeah, so you know,
you got what we deserve. So, like I said, I
usually don't give a shit about soccer, but I like
you telling me that story. I could like see the movie,
(20:08):
like the Disney movie, and this is like the midpoint
where he's like gone and like the team is sucking,
and then he's going to come back heroically. It will
be like sort of Hidden Figures starring a whole German man.
All Right, we have to take a break and we'll
be right back after that. And we're back. Uh, you
guys want to talk about, uh the environmenthing. Um, it's
(20:39):
it's been coming up a lot. There's wildfires. Our state,
California is currently on fire, more than it's ever been
on fire, I think has has been reported. Um. I
think I heard that one football field of forest is
devoured by flame every three seconds, so doing a lot
(21:01):
of damage. And there's also you know, we we've been
seeing some superstorms, some unprecedented superstorms in the Gulf and
in the Atlantic. Um. And at the same time, the
Scott Pruett, the head of the e p A, which
I'm told stands for Environmental Protection Agency Protections and scare
(21:26):
quotes though right uh he he just repealed uh, the
Obama Administration's two thousand fifteen Clean Power Plan. Uh. And
you know, claimed that the war on coal is over, um,
which the thing that has been mostly happening to coal
(21:48):
is that, uh, natural gas is cheaper than coal and
coal is too expensive. We are like this close from
a Trump administration produced ad campaign of like a cr
euyeing Santa Claus wondering where he's gonna get coal from
this is a level of rhetoric we're operating with grasping
(22:08):
at straws for sure. Um and yeah, I mean there
there's some scary shit about like what how climate change
can sort of feed on itself. Um So they've speculated
that the more that the climate changes and heats up,
(22:28):
the worst wildfires are going to become because you know,
more heat, So you're getting summer heat that dries up
the foliage you know, earlier and earlier. Uh So, more
opportunities for wildfires and more stuff is dried out, so
the wildfires are worse. And apparently wildfires contribute to global warming.
(22:53):
So we're losing a thing that's fighting global warming and
converting it into global warming essentially. Uh So you just
can see a vicious cycle. And uh, Yale Climate Connections
has an article that's uh I think California specialists on
climate change or saying that it can create a vicious
(23:15):
cycle where we just get worse global warming leads to
worse forest fires, leads to worst global warming leads to
worst forest fires, until uh, the earth is a charred ruin. God,
we're so fucked right. So the fun part about this
story is we don't have any solutions to any of this,
we're just telling you about it. So, speaking of natural
(23:39):
disasters that global warming is making worse, we wanted to
check in with how how the hurricane relief has been
going because uh, not well it turns out, uh and
some of our dry run episodes we did a story
about how the Red Cross has not been as good
(24:01):
at disaster relief as you would have expected. Screw and Haiti.
I think they got some crazy amount. They received five
hundred millions million dollars and turned that into six houses,
six permanent houses. They had been talking about how they
were going to put up all these settlements like basically
create cities and make Kitie better than it was before
(24:24):
the earthquake, and instead they put up six houses and yeah,
and they spent a quarter of that, like a hundred
million on just internal costs, so like paying out people.
There was a really good and really good investigation into
this by what's that website that does really good investigations
public fucking good man. Uh. They Yeah, they have like
(24:50):
all these documents and it's just crazy when you look
inside the Red Cross, like the things that they're worried
about and the things that they uh spend money on
our you know, basically they'll they'll spend money getting trucks
down to uh disaster. Yeah, just as like as billboards
to be like look at those red Cruss trucks right around,
and people be like, there's nothing in here, right, they
(25:12):
just like drive them back and forth to like pr
opportunities and there would be nothing in there. And that's
what they're that's what they're like to like if there
was gonna be some like on the site reporting from CNN. Okay,
here's here. Let me let me play the worst kind
of Devil's advocate. I guess, um, but okay, but to
(25:36):
to coordinate international aid, you need an organization that is
big enough, uh to handle you know, logistics over you know,
multinational multimillion maybe billion dollar budgets and and so. Living
in the real world, we also know that like organizations
of that size are rife for corruption. But is it
(26:00):
possible for a smaller I mean, like, you know, I
guess the sweet spot is a constant green shoot of
disruptive briefly non corrupt NGOs that come up, become corrupted,
and someone that something else to plants them, and then
for a brief window we have actual people getting help
that they deserve at a proportional rate, but delivered efficiently
(26:20):
in a way that I don't know, you know what
I mean. It's like, like, okay, funk the Red Cross,
But most of the smaller organizations don't have the ability
to do what the Red Cross could do, even though
it's not right. I mean, maybe the thing that you
said was underrated, like corporate uh wokeness. Maybe, like I
(26:44):
was thinking, Okay, so Puerto Rico right now is still
a complete fucking disaster. This CBS reporter David big nod
Is basically specializes in going to the aftermath of disasters
and reporting on like how disaster relief is going. And
he says, this is the worst he's ever seen it,
Like and there three weeks out. He said, he's never
(27:08):
seen a disaster relief process going this bad three days
out and they're three weeks out, just like nobody's getting
the care they need. Uh, you know, there's all these
old people who are completely cut off from communication. Uh.
Communication really seems to be like the main thing that
they're lacking because their power infrastructure went down. So I
(27:29):
was reading that at the same time as I had
like just read a thing about how completely fucked all
these robber baron Uh, you know, tech companies and tech
CEOs are like in terms of public opinion, like basically
public opinion has been going down steadily when it comes
to Google, Facebook, Um, Apple, well so Uber they say,
(27:54):
is like the person is the company that started it.
They were like, oh yeah, maybe tech companies are a
complete sucking assholes. But so that's starting to happen, and
obviously the two thousand and sixteen election didn't help. So
like why like this would be a perfect opportunity for
Facebook or Google or Apple to like go down there,
(28:15):
Like Apples about to have a huge surplus of iPhone eight,
so like down there, why not go down there and
like hand those out to everybody and like you know
put it, like get some drones with portable WiFi towers
and you know send those all across the island Like
that that's the sort of thing that you would get
so much credit for and like that would be good
(28:38):
for your bottom line. And I don't know if it's
like a lack of imagination or like, uh yeah, lack
of just genuinely wanting to do because like a priority,
Jesla has quietly been going down there. They're they've been
using their batteries and like to help actually give give
people some like power and remote like that. But they're
not trying to be like, hey, we're down here, just
(29:00):
a thing that's been happening. But yeah, I don't know
why anyone else is just But I mean I think
that that's like where the corporate wokeness comes in. I'm
sure the that's like, you know, from fucking Elon Musk's perspective,
like this disaster is also like opportunity. Well it's it's
like the best R and D lab you could find.
It's like how good are our batteries really? And you know,
since he's making cars instead of something virtual that only
(29:21):
depends on PR He's like, well we should test these
in a disaster area. So it's like a win win
win for for those guys. But also right, it's like, Okay,
if they're helping people, I guess welcome to the fucking team, right,
But I mean they have so much money, like just
throwing a little bit towards disaster really or just be
(29:43):
a fucking drop, like a rounding error for them. Yeah,
I'm still confused as to how the public outrage still
hasn't quite gotten there. And I think because from every
angle they're trying to well, I mean it's because we
don't care about brown people, like as a on this
podcast especially very hard. It's very hard being on this podcast.
(30:07):
I do mean this podcast America. I mean, look, so
this is the big hole. Like right after the election,
I I remember a thing that you know, I and
many many other people. Um, we're talking about like act locally, right, Like,
if you're feeling disenfranchised by the federal government, do what
you can in your in your community. Um, you know,
(30:28):
help help people if you are afraid that I don't
know totally hypothetically, like the Trump administration is going to
attack trans folks, you can also help transfolks in the
community that you live in. Right. So that was my
party line a little bit, and it is a thing.
But the big shortcoming in that is like sometimes you
need a big, bureaucratic, measured response to a thing like
(30:50):
a natural disaster, which is like, yes, everyone in Puerto
Rico can help their neighbor, but that doesn't help. They
can't they can't plaude your water at a thinner like
drinking water is a huge issue. Yeah, So that's why
this matters. I guess. Yeah. Well, and it's and it
also yeah, like you said, if it's our pattern of
like if the victims are brown or whatever, like there
isn't much outcry like if the victims are brown, let
(31:11):
them drown. If the are white, but yeah, I mean
same like Flint the Flint Water Ship, It's like, yeah,
everything you see like just a bunch of disenfranchised people
of color who are being poison And it's kind of
like yeah, and you know, fucking in ten years, someone's
gonna maybe go to jail or pay a fine for this,
(31:32):
and then in fifteen years there's going to be an
Oscar winning movie about it. Right, It's like yeah. Um.
And also the Red Cross, we should say, is fucking
up Harvey relief. Uh So, even even in where they're
where they're white people that the media cares about, the
(31:53):
Red Cross is still doing their thing of fucking things
up and like, uh, doing things just for show. The
Red Cross is basically a pr agency for the Red Cross.
Like that's what your money goes to a lot of
the time. Um, I mean, look, Silicon Valley, if you're
so like if you're really such outside the box, thinkers
like fucking disrupt the aid like industry. Right, let's see,
(32:17):
and that is a that is a rhetorical thing I'm
saying because we know that you can't do it. Just like. Look,
you're just a bunch of young white guys fucking um
running businesses that a bunch of old white guys a
k a. Wall Street has rewarded currently. But like, there's
nothing magic about what you do. I said it. All right,
(32:40):
we're gonna go to a quick break and we'll be
right back and we're back. Um, So, Andrew, what's up? Uh?
You are as the host of a podcast about racism. Uh,
you have been known to confront a troll or two.
Yeah on, and you have a patented eight part technique
(33:04):
called control where you learn, where you teach people how
to deal with trolls. Oh my god. You. I like
how you're pushing my improv skill still, because if I
were good, what I would start with his? Al Right,
first of all, see context. I don't know if I
have anything that in depth, but I do so, especially
(33:26):
well more than the podcast. Actually, the website is racist
dot com check out. Thank you for letting me get
that natural plug in. Um, Actually we're gonna edit that out,
Nick Mark that Okay, the website is where we're basically
I I say, like, hey asked me if something is racist,
which is like prime troll bait. Um So. But so
(33:46):
the a couple of things about arguing with trolls is
like I first got into arguing with racist trolls, but
I think it's that's a little redundant now. Um through
right after college, I was like spending a lot of
time arguing with creationists on the internet, and it's like
all the same tactics. Um So, it's like a tried
(34:07):
and true tactic employed by troll So the big yeah, yeah,
So the big one that I found, um started as
like a debate technique but works probably arguably even better online,
which is the thing called the Gish gallop, or called
by creationist fighters called the Gift gallop, which is after
this guy Dwayne Gish, who was like a big time
(34:28):
creationist and he's one of the guys that will like
try to debate people like really calls out scientists, I
want to debate the theory of evolution, and his tactic
is basically like pack so many lies into your sentence
that like it is it by the time you refute
every untrue thing he said, you sound like a sputtering idiot.
(34:49):
And this is this is like from the Rules of debate,
where everyone has like two minutes to talk, right, so
he can in his two minutes say so many things
that are attacks but are factually incorrect or factually just honest,
but you cannot refute them all, like you are either
like have to speed talk and you sound like defensive
or it's just logically impossible to like get to it.
(35:12):
Like wasn't there a point in the Trump Clinton debates
where she at one point was just like there's so
many things wrong with that that like I don't even
know where to be something even I mean kind of
like she did the best thing you can do, I think,
but it's still doesn't work that well, which is like
she's like there's so many lives in that go to
Hillary Clinton dot com slash blah blah blah, and it's
(35:33):
like that looks or yeah, that looks so weak and
like rhetorically even though it is like like so so
my and who my theory in this, because I get
a lot of people submitting to your ass racist that
It's like the model is like false premise, create a
straw man out of like a perversion of something I've
(35:53):
said in the past, um, some kind of other lie conclusion,
aren't you the real racist? And so the two and
you know on yours, this's racist. I have the luxury
of okay, if I really want to, what I can
do is bang out a thousand words in response to
their like to sentence, you know, question um and and
(36:15):
really try to like comprehensively take them down. But even
that is like so much fucking work. Like it's like
you have to check your work. You have to make
sure you refuted everything is that, you have to make
sure your ship is bulletproof. And it's like it's like
just the you know, you'd reach the heat death of
the universe trying to refute every lie. So my tactic
for that is really just like, uh, this is intellectually dishonest,
(36:39):
but rhetorically effective, I find, which is to pick out
the one, the most obvious lie or logical error they've made,
highlight that, and then return with some sort of insults
an example of what someone would say to you and
then how you would So the one that I get
frequently is like, um, you know, well, black people commit
(37:05):
uh disproportionate amount of crime and so right, like the
the as then that's often an opening premise and so
like it's complex. But you know, so your response is
something along the lines of like, well, controlling for socioeconomic
factors and education levels and blah blah blah blah blah
(37:25):
blah blah, you know, along with the history of racism,
like inequal like policing. Um, this is why you know,
there's a bunch of ship that even sounds weak. You
already exactly like that's that's Dick said, there hasn't been
any Yeah, so so I mean really it's like, you know,
you have to pick out something from there. It's like
(37:47):
like yeah, again intellectually dishonest, but it's like, you know,
I'm sorry that you don't know what you know, controlling
for a variable? Is you dumb motherfucker? You know, Like
and then and then oftentimes I like to to take
a thing, um, you know, twist twist a racist word
or twist a racist like line of thoughts. So I
(38:07):
I might might go to I probably know it a
little too much, but I really like it, which is like, um,
just saying something along the lines of like, are all
white people. This bad at um logic or is it
just like the white is it just the white community,
or do you think it's an innate genetic problem with
white people, you know, something something along those lines, like
fucking like like pull, you know, and and it's wrong,
(38:31):
and but it's just like kind of the only way
to like break the cycle of troll is you kind
of have to go a little bit back. Um. And
then my other method, this is more Twitter based. I
find it entertaining, but the degree of difficulty is really high,
and I've I've funked this up a lot as an
elite level troll control movie and I'm not even there.
(38:52):
I'm like, I'm I feel like I have like a
ten PC like complete success on this, but go play
as dumb as humanly fucking possible. So just like if
it's like if someone comes at you and it's like, well,
you know, the Confederate flag is really so the Civil
War was really about states rights, not racism and or
(39:15):
not slavery, and it's like sorry, states rights to do what?
And then they're like, well, you know it's really economic based,
and it's like, oh yeah, the economy of what, And
you really have to hold the line and and it's
ideally works actually if you're less confrontational than the tone
I just put forth and just give them as much
rope as possible. But you really have to like devote
(39:36):
an afternoon to this, Like it's really a humongous waste
of time. And for me, at best, what I get
out of it is a hilarious screenshot where they say like, well,
so we all know like black people are less, you know,
less intelligent, and I it's like, is it worth it?
Absolutely not? Is it kind of fun? Sometimes? Is it
soul destroying? You know? I I the real thing is
(40:00):
like, like like just mute them, let them scream into the void.
The best I got, yeah, it was that, like, you know,
because when I first started the website, I would answer
a lot more trolls and someone just wrote in one
time I was like, hey, man, you know if you
just delete them, they're just screaming into the void. And
(40:20):
I was like, yeah, I know, it's I should do
that more. But we're all weak and you can't see
that you muted them, so they are literally like wasting
their time yelling at you. Yeah, but you know what,
and and that's why I at the same time. I
I'd like to to like argue with trolls, but when
I see other people do it, that's always an eye roll.
(40:41):
So you know, I would say, but yeah, try I
would say that, especially if you get frustrated. I think
the gish gallop is like a thing that people get
a lot and it's like, well, well, you know, I
how could you? How could you say all these things?
And it's like, just don't just just pick the one
most obvious mistake and then call him a fucking idiot
(41:01):
like you have to, don't. I don't try and peg
them all down. That's so good. Well, we have so
much more to talk about, but I think we're out
of time because that was just too much fun. Uh.
Jeremy Lynn has dreadlocks and Maala had her first day
of lectures at Oxford. Those are the happy stories we
were going to go out on. Malla. Also, her first
(41:24):
day of lectures happened to be on the four year
anniversary of or five year anniversary of her getting shot
in the face, So uh, that's uplifting tail for all
of us. Exactly it actually is. But still yeah, and
Jeremy Lynn's ship locks their their heartwarming just if I
(41:45):
can get the one one uh one fucking thing in there.
It's like, hey, fellow Asian people, just I mean, fucking
let's let's acknowledge some of the ship that we get,
but also particularly like millionaire, Harvard educated rich Asian people,
let's let's just fucking no know where you're at fucking
(42:06):
as Yeah, Andrew, thank you so much. This is a
lot of fun. They'll definitely have you back. Where can
people follow you? Uh go to you know, is this racist?
That's like an easy place to find me. I'm also
on Twitter andrew t last name, it's called t I.
I know this doesn't actually matter, but it is all
caps that not enough miles. Where can people find you?
(42:31):
You can find me at miles of grade g R
A Y you know, wherever wherever social media is sold.
And you can find me at Jack Underscore O'Brien on Twitter. Uh.
You can also follow us at daily Zeygeist on Twitter,
at the Daily Zygeist on Instagram, and uh we have
a Facebook page as well, The Daily's case. Uh, and
(42:54):
that's gonna do it. Miles catch phrase do you have
s
Hello the Internet, and welcome to the Daily Like Guys
for Thursday, October twelve, two thousand seventeen. My name is
Jack O'Brien. I am joined as always by my co host,
Mr Miles grag was I must, and we are thrilled
to be joined by Andrew T, host of Yo was
this racist? What's up? What's up? Did you have to push?
(00:21):
I'm so used to being the only Asian person in
a podcast For that, I feel like, thank you, yeah
you no worries. Just got about to hold down two races.
I know, I got black and Japan. Yeah, you're busy
tomorrow morning, I'll do some a little more Bonnie uh
this morning, and everybody with the ohio good. I must
For all my Japanese listeners out there, yeah, I just
(00:43):
pretended to know what you said. YE was like, yeah, cool,
cool cool. Yeah all right, Andrew, Uh for our foolish
listeners who don't listen to you as this racist so
they can get to know you quickly. What is the
weirdest thing in your search history from this week for
(01:03):
this day? All right? This is so this is a thing.
When y'all asked me about this, I was like, oh yeah,
this would be funny. And then I realized there's nothing
in my search history from this week because I deleted
google ability or not ability the ability. I told them
they couldn't they shouldn't track my ship anymore. So what
I do have for my search history is um basically
(01:27):
five survivalist videos and then me abruptly cutting off Google
videos shook yeah, and nothing crazy. What happened was a
couple like a couple of weeks ago. Clearly I was like,
I'm gonna start getting into like I need to learn
how to like camp and ship. Like I was like
a not eagle scout, but I was I did a
(01:48):
boy scout thing for a while. I'll look at you,
and so I was like I could get back into this.
So it's just like a but like a variety of
like knife and gun reviews, and then all of a sudden,
I was like, you know what, I'm out drop off
the grid. The military is definitely something happened in there
where you're just like knife gun, did someone say something
You're just like I don't want I don't want people
to build a case again. I mean it was the mindset, no,
(02:10):
you know what. I think it was also like look
is it's never that fun to watch a bunch of
gun videos, but it kind of is. And I think
I was just like, I'm watching too many gun videos. Um, alright,
what's your over under? Um? I came up with a
bunch of these overrated, overrated anti heroes. I feel like
(02:33):
I feel like we're in a time where everyone thinks,
like just having a bad protagonist is enough. And I
think what we've learned is that because of either something
innate to how storytelling works or because of how Western
culture has indoctrinated us, like there's no anti heroes. They're
just the heroes. Everyone fucking loves these people, even though
(02:54):
they're quote unquote bad up to and including Mr President.
You know, it's, oh, we love to hate him. We
love to hate him. I think I'm in love with
this man. That's what happens. It's so entertaining. My classic
example is like every it's like Matthew Weiner can say
whatever the funk he wants about who he thinks Don
(03:15):
Draper is. The reality is people men, especially like want
to be Don Draper. And it's like it didn't the
message and take It's like this is about how funked
up this generation is not really Yeah, John Hamm is
the voice of like all luxury goods from now until
like every people just forget that. I mean it's like
if if we forget like again, I'm going to this
(03:37):
well twice in one sentence already, But it's like if
John Hamm, we're less handsome, Don Draper becomes Donald Trump,
Like that's exactly who that person becomes. So it's like,
you know, other overrated, a sociopath who's empty on the inside, yeah,
and who thinks he's who's like is like hiding something
(03:59):
but like needs to be better than everyone else. And
it's a hurt, wounded little boy. Yeah. And like in
Breaking Bad, when I remember when Skyler like started having
completely reasonable objections to her husband, to her husband's being
a drug dealer, Everyone's like, god, she sucks. She's yeah. Yeah,
(04:20):
it's like we want that narrative to continue, and we
have been again either trained or like, I don't know,
fucking lots of people in this stupidest town will argue
that narrative is innate but to human experience, but like
we always root for the protagonist of the story. And
it's like I was arguing about this the other day.
(04:41):
It's like Breaking Bad is an interesting show if Jesse
Pinkmin is a young Latino kid and it's told from
his perspective, right, Not that I know people love it,
but it's a better show in that case. Hey, let's
talk about that out the air man. We got something,
um here some what's under underrated corporate wokeness. I know
(05:03):
everyone hates it, but there's a part of me and look,
I don't think it's good, but I think it's underrated.
So like anytime corporations do the right thing for a
clearly blatant profit oriented reason, I'm kind of for it.
I'm just like, I will take it. And it's not
as bad as like I think we all step forward
(05:24):
is Yeah, it's just like it's a like a third
derivative reflection of society because their only concern is, like
do do most of the people think about think of
this as the right thing to do, and so we
will follow suit after it's like so so so safe
for us to do it, but it's still a powerful thing.
(05:46):
So I'm just like, I'll take it again. Progress it's
capitalism working. Yeah, yeah, that's when capitalism works. Um, so underrated,
not good, but underrated. I love it. Man, you could
have a whole podcast of you just doing over underrated things.
I'm sure that's a podcast somewhere right. I can I
(06:06):
run down the couple other ones that I thought were
funny that I wrote down. Is overrated is how well
all of us think we're going to do in a
nuclear war? And underrated pestilence the horseman. I think he
gets a lot of like a short shrift. And when
when the apocalypse do come, most of us are going
(06:26):
to succumb to pestilence. YEA, none of the other ship.
We all think it's we're going to go out in
a war or death or famine. Pestilence it drives up
eat younger nails. I was just listening to, Uh they're
reading an article about the Cuban missile crisis, and like
they were briefing JFK about like the horrifying things that
(06:47):
happened to you, like when you're exposed to radiation, and
like one of them is like basically sores start opening
up and then you get infections and that's how we're
all gonna die. Yeah all right, yeah, yeah, um hey,
speaking of this uh crazy town that we live in,
we are currently in week two of the Harvey Weinstein
(07:07):
saga of just revelation after revelation. Now it appears that
he was basically a very systematized serial offender. Uh. All
of these women's stories sounds almost identical. He had like
(07:28):
assistants who are complicit in it, executives at Merrimax who
are complicit in it um. And they all have the
same details of like, you know, the robe in his
he comes out in a robe in the hotel room
or whether it's uh their apartment or his apartment or
a hotel room. Uh, asks for a massage. Just all
the creepy ship that is like all part of his
(07:51):
weird system. Uh. And it turns out Gwyneth Paltrow experienced
at Angelina, Joe Lee experienced it like basically everybody in
this town has experienced Heather Graham has experienced it um.
But the real issue that we have to focus on
at this point, or at least that CNN was focusing
(08:14):
on a couple of days ago, is how long it
took Obama and Clinton to respond to you guys. Just
I mean, what is up with these people? Their silence
is deafening? Man, I mean, yeah, is it is there
a window that you have to hit before you aren't
viewed as a supporter of the crime. I don't that's
(08:37):
like the question. They're right, it's like, well it took
five days, so what does that mean? Like, right, what's
the statute of limitations? Right? Look, I mean I feel
like this is like the bad thing in exactly, it's
exacerbated by the fact that, like you don't pay consequences
as a man or typically like that. That's the real
(09:00):
thing is like this is hugely atypical, and like a
thing that's been happening on Twitter today is a lot
of like, you know, a lot of my close personal
friends who are like in the business. Just this is
like really talented women that I'm very close friends with business.
Um no, but they they're coming out with their own
personal stories, you know, of ship that has happened to
them in this town. Like it's not it's not common
(09:24):
that people get punished for this behavior. Man, Sorry, it's
not common that men get punished for this behavior. And
so there's a real calculus among public figures of you know,
and I'm not saying this is right, but it's like, look,
we for from Obama and Clinton's perspective, it's like waiting
for to see where the preponderance of public opinion lands. Yeah,
(09:49):
and it wasn't a guarantee that everyone was going to
be like one scene a monster. The last time this happened,
we elected that person to the highest office in the country. Yeah,
it's it's like, why would you expect why would you
expect Harvey want seem to pay, like pay for his crimes.
So it's like, Okay, everyone's a coward, but everyone is
(10:11):
exactly the level of coward that is about fair. I
think I don't know. Yeah, well, and I think we
were saying earlier to it that this tactic is employed
on both sides, left and right in terms of like
why long did take Trump to to speak out on
this or how long did it take Republicans to speak
out on Trump shit? And so I guess CNN, in
their attempt to seem fair and balanced, was like trying
(10:33):
to use that same argument now against them. But it's
like that is kind of the interesting version of this
because it's like whatever conversations Clinton you know, and her
advisors were having, or Clinton you know, all both Clinton's,
Obama's everyone and their advice we're having about like do
we say something I don't know, like potentially want Steen
is our base, like he's a big donor. That's the
(10:54):
exact same conversation Trump had to have about neo Nazis, Right,
It's like, wow, this will blow over, Like we don't
of course we don't like the neo Nazis, but like,
I don't know that maybe this will blow over, like
you know, I don't want to upset them. Yeah, it's like, oh,
we can't know this kind of there are there are guys. Um.
You know, that's obviously the most charitable reading of what
could have gone on in the Trump wine house, but
(11:16):
you know, yeah, you kind of see it a little bit.
It's like he was hoping, just like Clinton and Obama,
we're hoping that this would blow over. He was hoping
charlotte Ville would blow over it. But I still don't
understand how it took Obama that long, because I mean,
he has daughters, and as we've learned in all this,
you have to have a daughter to understand that sexual
assault is wrong. I don't. Yeah, That's why I'm confused
(11:38):
about the holding. I'm like, I'm not even a father.
I'm like it's bad, right, I mean, I have a
I have a dog who's a woman. I guess I'm
like almost there um that that is has been every
every public figure. But it's also like like not justifying.
(12:00):
But there is like a good slippery slope that we're on,
which hopefully ends with equality. But we're currently on a
slippery slope where many people who we like very much
have done terrible things. I mean, like, hopefully this is
like a warning to too many of those people, cut
(12:21):
your ship out, get help if you truly cannot help yourself.
But like, you know, there's that, but but there are
many dominoes that will fall, I mean, you know, everyone,
and not to make it a generational thing, because this
happens in our generation and people younger than us. Sexism
is rampant, bigotry is rampant. But like these people like
(12:42):
got away with it for much longer. Bill Cosby got
away with things because you know, Hugh Hefner got away
with things because it was like that's just how it goes.
And like we're we're at a difficult inflection point where
a lot of hopefully we're at an inflection point and
the other thing that's going to happen is like maybe
back to the status quo, like right, like we've always done. Yeah,
(13:04):
it's an uncomfortable inflection point, but hopefully it is an
inflection point. Yeah, keeps that's more uncomfortable for entitled people
who have used their fame to abuse people. Um hey, hey,
speaking of none of that. Uh, the US failed to
reach the World I learned a couple of days ago
(13:25):
and immediately did not give a shit about that story
at all. But Miles, you are a soccer fan and football. Yeah,
I'm a fan of the foote at NFL fans the football.
I mean, yes, look, I I'm a huge soccer I
(13:46):
guess I'll use that words. Do you call the NFL
gridiron football or American Which which of the winker turves?
That's just that's a ship that's on TV when I'm
hungover on Sunday, not even like really ever watching it.
But yes, So the US failed to get into the
World Cup for the first time since like the US
(14:08):
stay well, the men's as because the women they're doing
their thing and they're they're they've they figured it out.
The men's team, however, has not. Um and yes, they
failed to get in now as a as a soccer
fan and an American, you always want your team to
be good. You always wanted your team to do well.
And you know, for nearly any other sport where there's
(14:29):
a national team that he used competes in, we're like
crushing ship. But soccer is just like that one nut
that we haven't been able to crack quite yet. And
it seemed like we were on pace to do that
when we had the manager before Bruce Rene and this
man named Jurgen Klinsman who was a German UH soccer
who used to play soccer also for a terrible team
for called Tottenham anyway that we can get into that
(14:49):
la a lot of editorialized anyway, But he came over
here and he really saw an opportunity with the US
to actually sort of nudget into the right direction by
you know, encouraging uh you know, minorities and immigrant populations
in the US to begin participating in the sport, because
clearly there are a lot of people who come from
UH soccer loving countries in this like in the US.
(15:10):
So I said, hey, let's get these kids playing, let's
start let's start weeding that into the fabric of the
national team. Uh He was also encouraging players to leave
the MLS because objectively, the MLS is not a very
competitive league. It's just it's just well it's very competitive,
but it's at a very low level. Yea, which it's
like the fourth fifth best league, not the world, not
(15:31):
even try like between the second and first. The second
has a better lea. England has a better league, France
has a better league, Spain has a better league. But
those those leagues all have sub leagues, and I would
those even those sub leagues would break the MLS between
the second and third tier of sub leagues of leagues. Yeah,
(15:52):
and like England probably, um And so you know, and
MLS has really become a place for like really great
European players to just had a check and retire. And
they're like, yo, I can phone it in. I look
like a god, so perfect. So anyway, a lot of
his attitudes towards like American soccer and the sort of
need to be in revolutionizing the sport, it definitely rubbed
(16:12):
certain people the wrong way. Whether it was players who
were like, oh, how dare they say the MLS is
blah bla, there's some great players here, yo, family, like
look at it objectively, none of these people, they're not
vuying for feeful World Player of the Year. The talent
is just simply not there. Um. So basically after uh,
you know, there was a few dips in form because
obviously change doesn't come instantly. Rome wasn't built in a day. Uh,
(16:35):
you know, they were He had back to back losses
to Mexico, which is humiliating for US soccer fans because
that's like that's a no no, uh, and also lost
to Costa Rica. Those are kind of became the last
straws and they fired him, and some of these people
in the Old Guard who just did not really agree
with Klinsman, found a reason to be like, look at this,
I mean, we're we're failing like that. He's he's putting
(16:55):
us in jeopardy. We gotta get rid of him. And
the Old Guard believes in what like MLS soccer MLS
great kids who like come up through the soccer program
where like their parents have to pay a thousand dollars
to get them on like club teams and exactly because
you know, he was even saying like, look, you got
you have kids, whether like you know, from Mexico and
things like that, who are are who are eligible to
(17:16):
play for the US, Like let's let's get these kids
playing too, like they get the sport in a completely
different way. Um, and yeah, he was really trying to
democratize I think the way soccer was being played here
and because you know, if you think about it, in
like urban areas, there's no soccer field for you to
go play, like that's for the like the suburbs and
stuff like that. So he was really trying to he
(17:36):
was he was understanding and identifying that there was a
lot of untapped talent and things like that. And I
think a lot of it too is like you know,
one of the most legendary US players, Landing Donovan, he
also had like a bit of a problem with him
to uh you know he cut him from the national
Yeah exactly, and it was like, oh my god, how
dare he? But like London, Yeah, he was getting old.
(17:57):
And also that Landa Donovan is the type of guy
who was the best in the US. He went to
Germany basically realized that he was not the best ever
and he got benched and he was like like im
going back to it was like a cry baby, like
he he didn't really go he didn't take the time
to understand that, you know, he had some weaknesses that
(18:18):
he could work on, And I think that was more
indicative of sort of how a lot of older US
soccer people view how we do things here, is like,
we're not the problem, it's the it's the wee. I
think that matters too. It's like like the fact that
the US, especially men's but probably actually both national teams
do not represent the people who are strapping on cleats
(18:39):
on Saturday mornings like in this country. Because it's it's
why it looks like a fucking frat like like the US. Yeah,
it's very Abercrombie and it's like fucking soccer players in
this country. If you count them up, they're a lot browner.
There are a lot, you know, they're a lot blacker
and browner. Then, like the team would suggest, and I
(19:01):
mean credit to that team, because that that the complexion
literally of the team has begun to change and sure,
but there's still very much it's not representative, not at all, Yeah, exactly. Um,
So essentially we were left with this bum coach Bruce Arena,
who I can talk about all day. He's been he's
been the manager of the U s. It's a lot
like Steve Man, like a real sloppy went uh you know,
(19:26):
uh marched us to a slow death march, to the
point where now we are completely we're not we didn't
qualify for the World Cup. Fans are angry as fun
and they're trying to make sense of everything. And I
just to me, it was just very interesting because I
honestly feel that getting rid of your kinsman was a
bad move. He was really trying to take those steps
necessary for the US to begin to compete at that
(19:48):
global level. Um, and it seems like our our attitude
in this country just sort of really showed itself. And
how how how we how quickly we dismissed him, just
after a few bumps in the road. Yeah, so you know,
you got what we deserve. So, like I said, I
usually don't give a shit about soccer, but I like
you telling me that story. I could like see the movie,
(20:08):
like the Disney movie, and this is like the midpoint
where he's like gone and like the team is sucking,
and then he's going to come back heroically. It will
be like sort of Hidden Figures starring a whole German man.
All Right, we have to take a break and we'll
be right back after that. And we're back. Uh, you
guys want to talk about, uh the environmenthing. Um, it's
(20:39):
it's been coming up a lot. There's wildfires. Our state,
California is currently on fire, more than it's ever been
on fire, I think has has been reported. Um. I
think I heard that one football field of forest is
devoured by flame every three seconds, so doing a lot
(21:01):
of damage. And there's also you know, we we've been
seeing some superstorms, some unprecedented superstorms in the Gulf and
in the Atlantic. Um. And at the same time, the
Scott Pruett, the head of the e p A, which
I'm told stands for Environmental Protection Agency Protections and scare
(21:26):
quotes though right uh he he just repealed uh, the
Obama Administration's two thousand fifteen Clean Power Plan. Uh. And
you know, claimed that the war on coal is over, um,
which the thing that has been mostly happening to coal
(21:48):
is that, uh, natural gas is cheaper than coal and
coal is too expensive. We are like this close from
a Trump administration produced ad campaign of like a cr
euyeing Santa Claus wondering where he's gonna get coal from
this is a level of rhetoric we're operating with grasping
(22:08):
at straws for sure. Um and yeah, I mean there
there's some scary shit about like what how climate change
can sort of feed on itself. Um So they've speculated
that the more that the climate changes and heats up,
(22:28):
the worst wildfires are going to become because you know,
more heat, So you're getting summer heat that dries up
the foliage you know, earlier and earlier. Uh So, more
opportunities for wildfires and more stuff is dried out, so
the wildfires are worse. And apparently wildfires contribute to global warming.
(22:53):
So we're losing a thing that's fighting global warming and
converting it into global warming essentially. Uh So you just
can see a vicious cycle. And uh, Yale Climate Connections
has an article that's uh I think California specialists on
climate change or saying that it can create a vicious
(23:15):
cycle where we just get worse global warming leads to
worse forest fires, leads to worst global warming leads to
worst forest fires, until uh, the earth is a charred ruin. God,
we're so fucked right. So the fun part about this
story is we don't have any solutions to any of this,
we're just telling you about it. So, speaking of natural
(23:39):
disasters that global warming is making worse, we wanted to
check in with how how the hurricane relief has been
going because uh, not well it turns out, uh and
some of our dry run episodes we did a story
about how the Red Cross has not been as good
(24:01):
at disaster relief as you would have expected. Screw and Haiti.
I think they got some crazy amount. They received five
hundred millions million dollars and turned that into six houses,
six permanent houses. They had been talking about how they
were going to put up all these settlements like basically
create cities and make Kitie better than it was before
(24:24):
the earthquake, and instead they put up six houses and yeah,
and they spent a quarter of that, like a hundred
million on just internal costs, so like paying out people.
There was a really good and really good investigation into
this by what's that website that does really good investigations
public fucking good man. Uh. They Yeah, they have like
(24:50):
all these documents and it's just crazy when you look
inside the Red Cross, like the things that they're worried
about and the things that they uh spend money on
our you know, basically they'll they'll spend money getting trucks
down to uh disaster. Yeah, just as like as billboards
to be like look at those red Cruss trucks right around,
and people be like, there's nothing in here, right, they
(25:12):
just like drive them back and forth to like pr
opportunities and there would be nothing in there. And that's
what they're that's what they're like to like if there
was gonna be some like on the site reporting from CNN. Okay,
here's here. Let me let me play the worst kind
of Devil's advocate. I guess, um, but okay, but to
(25:36):
to coordinate international aid, you need an organization that is
big enough, uh to handle you know, logistics over you know,
multinational multimillion maybe billion dollar budgets and and so. Living
in the real world, we also know that like organizations
of that size are rife for corruption. But is it
(26:00):
possible for a smaller I mean, like, you know, I
guess the sweet spot is a constant green shoot of
disruptive briefly non corrupt NGOs that come up, become corrupted,
and someone that something else to plants them, and then
for a brief window we have actual people getting help
that they deserve at a proportional rate, but delivered efficiently
(26:20):
in a way that I don't know, you know what
I mean. It's like, like, okay, funk the Red Cross,
But most of the smaller organizations don't have the ability
to do what the Red Cross could do, even though
it's not right. I mean, maybe the thing that you
said was underrated, like corporate uh wokeness. Maybe, like I
(26:44):
was thinking, Okay, so Puerto Rico right now is still
a complete fucking disaster. This CBS reporter David big nod
Is basically specializes in going to the aftermath of disasters
and reporting on like how disaster relief is going. And
he says, this is the worst he's ever seen it,
Like and there three weeks out. He said, he's never
(27:08):
seen a disaster relief process going this bad three days
out and they're three weeks out, just like nobody's getting
the care they need. Uh, you know, there's all these
old people who are completely cut off from communication. Uh.
Communication really seems to be like the main thing that
they're lacking because their power infrastructure went down. So I
(27:29):
was reading that at the same time as I had
like just read a thing about how completely fucked all
these robber baron Uh, you know, tech companies and tech
CEOs are like in terms of public opinion, like basically
public opinion has been going down steadily when it comes
to Google, Facebook, Um, Apple, well so Uber they say,
(27:54):
is like the person is the company that started it.
They were like, oh yeah, maybe tech companies are a
complete sucking assholes. But so that's starting to happen, and
obviously the two thousand and sixteen election didn't help. So
like why like this would be a perfect opportunity for
Facebook or Google or Apple to like go down there,
(28:15):
Like Apples about to have a huge surplus of iPhone eight,
so like down there, why not go down there and
like hand those out to everybody and like you know
put it, like get some drones with portable WiFi towers
and you know send those all across the island Like
that that's the sort of thing that you would get
so much credit for and like that would be good
(28:38):
for your bottom line. And I don't know if it's
like a lack of imagination or like, uh yeah, lack
of just genuinely wanting to do because like a priority,
Jesla has quietly been going down there. They're they've been
using their batteries and like to help actually give give
people some like power and remote like that. But they're
not trying to be like, hey, we're down here, just
(29:00):
a thing that's been happening. But yeah, I don't know
why anyone else is just But I mean I think
that that's like where the corporate wokeness comes in. I'm
sure the that's like, you know, from fucking Elon Musk's perspective,
like this disaster is also like opportunity. Well it's it's
like the best R and D lab you could find.
It's like how good are our batteries really? And you know,
since he's making cars instead of something virtual that only
(29:21):
depends on PR He's like, well we should test these
in a disaster area. So it's like a win win
win for for those guys. But also right, it's like, Okay,
if they're helping people, I guess welcome to the fucking team, right,
But I mean they have so much money, like just
throwing a little bit towards disaster really or just be
(29:43):
a fucking drop, like a rounding error for them. Yeah,
I'm still confused as to how the public outrage still
hasn't quite gotten there. And I think because from every
angle they're trying to well, I mean it's because we
don't care about brown people, like as a on this
podcast especially very hard. It's very hard being on this podcast.
(30:07):
I do mean this podcast America. I mean, look, so
this is the big hole. Like right after the election,
I I remember a thing that you know, I and
many many other people. Um, we're talking about like act locally, right, Like,
if you're feeling disenfranchised by the federal government, do what
you can in your in your community. Um, you know,
(30:28):
help help people if you are afraid that I don't
know totally hypothetically, like the Trump administration is going to
attack trans folks, you can also help transfolks in the
community that you live in. Right. So that was my
party line a little bit, and it is a thing.
But the big shortcoming in that is like sometimes you
need a big, bureaucratic, measured response to a thing like
(30:50):
a natural disaster, which is like, yes, everyone in Puerto
Rico can help their neighbor, but that doesn't help. They
can't they can't plaude your water at a thinner like
drinking water is a huge issue. Yeah, So that's why
this matters. I guess. Yeah. Well, and it's and it
also yeah, like you said, if it's our pattern of
like if the victims are brown or whatever, like there
isn't much outcry like if the victims are brown, let
(31:11):
them drown. If the are white, but yeah, I mean
same like Flint the Flint Water Ship, It's like, yeah,
everything you see like just a bunch of disenfranchised people
of color who are being poison And it's kind of
like yeah, and you know, fucking in ten years, someone's
gonna maybe go to jail or pay a fine for this,
(31:32):
and then in fifteen years there's going to be an
Oscar winning movie about it. Right, It's like yeah. Um.
And also the Red Cross, we should say, is fucking
up Harvey relief. Uh So, even even in where they're
where they're white people that the media cares about, the
(31:53):
Red Cross is still doing their thing of fucking things
up and like, uh, doing things just for show. The
Red Cross is basically a pr agency for the Red Cross.
Like that's what your money goes to a lot of
the time. Um, I mean, look, Silicon Valley, if you're
so like if you're really such outside the box, thinkers
like fucking disrupt the aid like industry. Right, let's see,
(32:17):
and that is a that is a rhetorical thing I'm
saying because we know that you can't do it. Just like. Look,
you're just a bunch of young white guys fucking um
running businesses that a bunch of old white guys a
k a. Wall Street has rewarded currently. But like, there's
nothing magic about what you do. I said it. All right,
(32:40):
we're gonna go to a quick break and we'll be
right back and we're back. Um, So, Andrew, what's up? Uh?
You are as the host of a podcast about racism. Uh,
you have been known to confront a troll or two.
Yeah on, and you have a patented eight part technique
(33:04):
called control where you learn, where you teach people how
to deal with trolls. Oh my god. You. I like
how you're pushing my improv skill still, because if I
were good, what I would start with his? Al Right,
first of all, see context. I don't know if I
have anything that in depth, but I do so, especially
(33:26):
well more than the podcast. Actually, the website is racist
dot com check out. Thank you for letting me get
that natural plug in. Um, Actually we're gonna edit that out,
Nick Mark that Okay, the website is where we're basically
I I say, like, hey asked me if something is racist,
which is like prime troll bait. Um So. But so
(33:46):
the a couple of things about arguing with trolls is
like I first got into arguing with racist trolls, but
I think it's that's a little redundant now. Um through
right after college, I was like spending a lot of
time arguing with creationists on the internet, and it's like
all the same tactics. Um So, it's like a tried
(34:07):
and true tactic employed by troll So the big yeah, yeah,
So the big one that I found, um started as
like a debate technique but works probably arguably even better online,
which is the thing called the Gish gallop, or called
by creationist fighters called the Gift gallop, which is after
this guy Dwayne Gish, who was like a big time
(34:28):
creationist and he's one of the guys that will like
try to debate people like really calls out scientists, I
want to debate the theory of evolution, and his tactic
is basically like pack so many lies into your sentence
that like it is it by the time you refute
every untrue thing he said, you sound like a sputtering idiot.
(34:49):
And this is this is like from the Rules of debate,
where everyone has like two minutes to talk, right, so
he can in his two minutes say so many things
that are attacks but are factually incorrect or factually just honest,
but you cannot refute them all, like you are either
like have to speed talk and you sound like defensive
or it's just logically impossible to like get to it.
(35:12):
Like wasn't there a point in the Trump Clinton debates
where she at one point was just like there's so
many things wrong with that that like I don't even
know where to be something even I mean kind of
like she did the best thing you can do, I think,
but it's still doesn't work that well, which is like
she's like there's so many lives in that go to
Hillary Clinton dot com slash blah blah blah, and it's
(35:33):
like that looks or yeah, that looks so weak and
like rhetorically even though it is like like so so
my and who my theory in this, because I get
a lot of people submitting to your ass racist that
It's like the model is like false premise, create a
straw man out of like a perversion of something I've
(35:53):
said in the past, um, some kind of other lie conclusion,
aren't you the real racist? And so the two and
you know on yours, this's racist. I have the luxury
of okay, if I really want to, what I can
do is bang out a thousand words in response to
their like to sentence, you know, question um and and
(36:15):
really try to like comprehensively take them down. But even
that is like so much fucking work. Like it's like
you have to check your work. You have to make
sure you refuted everything is that, you have to make
sure your ship is bulletproof. And it's like it's like
just the you know, you'd reach the heat death of
the universe trying to refute every lie. So my tactic
for that is really just like, uh, this is intellectually dishonest,
(36:39):
but rhetorically effective, I find, which is to pick out
the one, the most obvious lie or logical error they've made,
highlight that, and then return with some sort of insults
an example of what someone would say to you and
then how you would So the one that I get
frequently is like, um, you know, well, black people commit
(37:05):
uh disproportionate amount of crime and so right, like the
the as then that's often an opening premise and so
like it's complex. But you know, so your response is
something along the lines of like, well, controlling for socioeconomic
factors and education levels and blah blah blah blah blah
(37:25):
blah blah, you know, along with the history of racism,
like inequal like policing. Um, this is why you know,
there's a bunch of ship that even sounds weak. You
already exactly like that's that's Dick said, there hasn't been
any Yeah, so so I mean really it's like, you know,
you have to pick out something from there. It's like
(37:47):
like yeah, again intellectually dishonest, but it's like, you know,
I'm sorry that you don't know what you know, controlling
for a variable? Is you dumb motherfucker? You know, Like
and then and then oftentimes I like to to take
a thing, um, you know, twist twist a racist word
or twist a racist like line of thoughts. So I
(38:07):
I might might go to I probably know it a
little too much, but I really like it, which is like, um,
just saying something along the lines of like, are all
white people. This bad at um logic or is it
just like the white is it just the white community,
or do you think it's an innate genetic problem with
white people, you know, something something along those lines, like
fucking like like pull, you know, and and it's wrong,
(38:31):
and but it's just like kind of the only way
to like break the cycle of troll is you kind
of have to go a little bit back. Um. And
then my other method, this is more Twitter based. I
find it entertaining, but the degree of difficulty is really high,
and I've I've funked this up a lot as an
elite level troll control movie and I'm not even there.
(38:52):
I'm like, I'm I feel like I have like a
ten PC like complete success on this, but go play
as dumb as humanly fucking possible. So just like if
it's like if someone comes at you and it's like, well,
you know, the Confederate flag is really so the Civil
War was really about states rights, not racism and or
(39:15):
not slavery, and it's like sorry, states rights to do what?
And then they're like, well, you know it's really economic based,
and it's like, oh yeah, the economy of what, And
you really have to hold the line and and it's
ideally works actually if you're less confrontational than the tone
I just put forth and just give them as much
rope as possible. But you really have to like devote
(39:36):
an afternoon to this, Like it's really a humongous waste
of time. And for me, at best, what I get
out of it is a hilarious screenshot where they say like, well,
so we all know like black people are less, you know,
less intelligent, and I it's like, is it worth it?
Absolutely not? Is it kind of fun? Sometimes? Is it
soul destroying? You know? I I the real thing is
(40:00):
like, like like just mute them, let them scream into the void.
The best I got, yeah, it was that, like, you know,
because when I first started the website, I would answer
a lot more trolls and someone just wrote in one
time I was like, hey, man, you know if you
just delete them, they're just screaming into the void. And
(40:20):
I was like, yeah, I know, it's I should do
that more. But we're all weak and you can't see
that you muted them, so they are literally like wasting
their time yelling at you. Yeah, but you know what,
and and that's why I at the same time. I
I'd like to to like argue with trolls, but when
I see other people do it, that's always an eye roll.
(40:41):
So you know, I would say, but yeah, try I
would say that, especially if you get frustrated. I think
the gish gallop is like a thing that people get
a lot and it's like, well, well, you know, I
how could you? How could you say all these things?
And it's like, just don't just just pick the one
most obvious mistake and then call him a fucking idiot
(41:01):
like you have to, don't. I don't try and peg
them all down. That's so good. Well, we have so
much more to talk about, but I think we're out
of time because that was just too much fun. Uh.
Jeremy Lynn has dreadlocks and Maala had her first day
of lectures at Oxford. Those are the happy stories we
were going to go out on. Malla. Also, her first
(41:24):
day of lectures happened to be on the four year
anniversary of or five year anniversary of her getting shot
in the face, So uh, that's uplifting tail for all
of us. Exactly it actually is. But still yeah, and
Jeremy Lynn's ship locks their their heartwarming just if I
(41:45):
can get the one one uh one fucking thing in there.
It's like, hey, fellow Asian people, just I mean, fucking
let's let's acknowledge some of the ship that we get,
but also particularly like millionaire, Harvard educated rich Asian people,
let's let's just fucking no know where you're at fucking
(42:06):
as Yeah, Andrew, thank you so much. This is a
lot of fun. They'll definitely have you back. Where can
people follow you? Uh go to you know, is this racist?
That's like an easy place to find me. I'm also
on Twitter andrew t last name, it's called t I.
I know this doesn't actually matter, but it is all
caps that not enough miles. Where can people find you?
(42:31):
You can find me at miles of grade g R
A Y you know, wherever wherever social media is sold.
And you can find me at Jack Underscore O'Brien on Twitter. Uh.
You can also follow us at daily Zeygeist on Twitter,
at the Daily Zygeist on Instagram, and uh we have
a Facebook page as well, The Daily's case. Uh, and
(42:54):
that's gonna do it. Miles catch phrase do you have
s
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