Hope For The Left?! Capitol Police: Nothing To See Here! 06.16.22

In episode 1270, Jack and Miles are joined by hosts of American Prestige, Daniel Bessner and Derek Davison to discuss… Is There Any Hope For A Leftist Movement In The US?, Coupchella Night 3 and more!

1. Coupchella Night 3

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to forty one,
episode four of day production of iHeart Radio. This is
a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's
shared consciousness. It's Thursday, June. What we got Miles's fudge?

(00:21):
National Fudge? Dad, you fudge? That's what I was. I
was about to say, a couple of days before National
Fudge Day, I I get jump around National Fudge Day.
I'm always uh, you know, so sometimes I miss it.
But Glen's finally here National Fudge. That do you like fudge? Yeah?
I don't. I don't dislike fudge. You know. I grew

(00:42):
up going to the to a boardwalk on the Jersey
shore on a summer league basis, and that was always
the free samples of fudge never disappointed, as opposed to
the saltwater tappy, which exclusively disappointed. So it's yeah, fudge delivers.
I feel like it's like, aren't some like so I
feel like so packed with sugar, like one bite, right,

(01:06):
which is like one bite and you will like start
hallucinating from the It's wild because I remember vividly once
eating a piece of it's so fast and like my
grandmother being disturbed. Yeah, I mean, like, how the fund
did you just eat all that? And I'm like, I'm
a child who loves sugar and this might be the
best thing I've ever had. Yeah. Well, anyways, my name

(01:28):
is Jack O'Brien, a k keeping track of all the
Mountain Dew flavors and the January six hearings. Call me
Count Dookup. That's courtesy of Chris Berrera, and I'm thrilled
to be joined as always by my co host, Mr
Miles Grab. All the other kids with go zumped up scoops,

(01:49):
better run, better run you're dirt before I hear it.
All the other kids with go zumped up scoops, better
run better rum before my Lloyd swears it. Shout out
to Scouty Magoo. Reference to that really awesome was the
Sydney Morning Harold going after Morning Harold, we will track
you out if they were pissed that somebody outed themselves

(02:15):
before they could go zumping their story. Well, Miles, we
are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by
the host of the American Prestige podcast, which is a
foreign policy podcast about the United States and all the
friends that made along the way. A really great listen.
I suggest everybody go check it out. They are Daniel

(02:36):
Bessner and Derek Davison. What's up, hey, guys, Happy to
be guys, Happy to be here. Thanks for having us.
Good to hey, thank you for being here. Yeah, where
you come to us? From Los Angeles, California? At a park? Okay,
northern Virginia. I'm the only person living here who was
in a defense contractor alright, that we know of, My

(02:59):
understand because you wouldn't be allowed to tell us if
you were like in the Actually, that's yeah, screw here.
Today we will try not to gazump it, although you know,
the defense Department might come through. Had you guys ever
heard that phrase gazump or that word? I just heard
it for the first time. Yeah, is it a thing

(03:19):
the kids are saying? I feel like, why, why the
funk have I heard gazump before? I can't be alone ever,
and I'm Professor Madden. None of my kids have ever
accused me of kazumping or I've never heard each other
you know each other? Is that bad? I mean, maybe
you're not cool enough to be gazumping? How dare you? Derek?
I'm just saying, I mean, Miles is young, and you

(03:41):
get to an age where there's there's a very good
chance that like people know not to say gazump to
us maybe, but they're like this guy looks like no,
it's like reason, I'm thinking UK English or something, you
know what I mean, Like that's why we're not here
because it's not like a cool word. I'm just like,
I just know definitely, Yeah, it is what it is.

(04:04):
That's really funny cool. Yeah. So Daniel you are a professor,
and Derek you write about foreign policy. I'll just you guys.
You guys know your ship, which it's important to establish
up top. There's a slight contrast where we are not experts.
We know about we know about mountain dew, we know

(04:25):
about we know about basketball, and we know something is
terribly afoot in this country. That's about it. But I
mean those are all important things to know. Exactly nothing
on the road to a new level of consciousness. I
would say, by the way, I do want to just
kind of put it out there for our listeners. I
will be doing a mountain dew tasting tomorrow. I will

(04:46):
have a spit bucket and I will be doing a
mountain dew tasting of a couple of new flavors, so
after the headiness of today's episode, you can look forward
to that. I think we've got thrashed Apple and we
got another new flavor. So they're doing the extreme nineties
things still radical Blueberry, the nineties are alive in the hill.

(05:09):
All right, Well, we're gonna get to know you guys
a little bit better in a moment. First, we're gonna
tell our listeners a couple of things we're talking about
just off the rip. I'm gonna be like, hey, like,
is there any hope for a leftist movement in the US? Hey,
you guys, you guys know stuff. Is there any hope?
Because yeah, I'm just genuinely curious. That's something that comes

(05:31):
up pretty frequently, just the lack of a revolutionary imagination
in the US. So I want to get you guys
thoughts on that. We'll talk about Coachella Night three. We
got louder Milk, which is a great name, and he
apparently gave some insurrectionists a tour the night before January
six and no big deal, nothing to see here, but

(05:54):
it says the cops, and you're like, wait, hold on,
what uh okay? But so we'll talk about plenty more,
but first we do like to ask our guests Daniel Derek,
what is something from your search histories? So I was
searching a book Town, which is an Austrian pastry, because
one of my good friends, Megan Day, one of the
best writers on the left today she writes for Jacobin,

(06:17):
is in Vienna, so I was looking up things for
her to see. She went to Freud's house, but I
also thought she needed to get a little sweet in there.
And that is an opercot filled bun called book Town.
So if anyone ever goes to Vienna, strongly recommend you
get it. What's what's the described the bund of the pastry.
It's like a it's like a kind of a popover,

(06:37):
like if a Southern popover, but it's filled with fresh
apricot jelly uh. And it was at this famous cafe
I believe called the Cafe Havevelka, where like all the
Viennese intellectuals used to eat, and it's still around. It's
in the center of the city and it's honestly the
best pastry I've ever had in my life. It's truly fantastic.
Europeans really do a good pastry. Yeah, I believe in

(06:59):
France and a name for like small patrites is pastries
is vien Wase because the ends have really good pastries.
And also I would recommend the zacher tort if you're
ever there. It's also really good stuffy the Spanish and
pan Idea is Spain. I don't think it's very known
for their pastries. But man, that ship is is really good.

(07:19):
You put you put a piece of paper on it, it
it immediately becomes c through, you know. But and it's
filled with things that like don't typically go together and
my day to day diet like olives, eggs, tuna, tomatoes,
tomato paste, and it just fucking really goes. It's really good.
I like that you said that it passed the Simpsons

(07:41):
dr Nick test, like when home as trying to gain
the weight. If it's like yeah, I rub it and
if it goes see through, it's good a wall and
the wall became yeah that I'll always remember that. It
turns things through. Derek, how about you with something from

(08:02):
your search history allow us to pry into your privacy. Yeah,
I googled the plot of the new Jurassic Park movie.
This is something I do when with with sequels. When
I've like seen one of the movies, like the first
movie or whatever, but I have no desire to see
the sequel. But I'm still like morbidly curious what the
story is. So I just like spoiled myself. And then
I have no desire to actually go to the movies

(08:24):
and say, I have that same morbid curiosity. And it
drew you in just when you thought you were out,
miles just and I thought I was out, Hammond's ghost
pulls me back in. Damn John Hammond. It was so bad,
wasn't really okay? Yeah, but so so I did the
right thing then googling, I love a Jurassic Park movie,

(08:47):
like because the first one is so good. I will
suffer every single one in the theater. I have the same, like,
like the same philosophy with Terminator films, like I will
go to the theater. I don't care. I don't even
if it's so year that it's bad from the trailer,
I'm like, it's still, it's still, it's still a moment.
So I go. But this one has like a Tim
Cook analog in it that is so fucking weird, and

(09:12):
just the it touches on like what if there were dinosaurs,
and then we're all back to a contained dinosaur thriller
like every other fucking Jurassic Park movie, Like like they
just stick there. They're in the Dolomites in Italy, like
in the mountains of Italy. There's I'm like, wait, hold on, now,

(09:32):
we're in fucking Italy with dinosaurs, and I'm like whatever, fine,
fuck it, is there any cool stuff up top with
the like world now run by people being like just
fleeing from dinosaurs. Yeah. The film opens with different news
stories about our new world of you know, cohabitating with

(09:53):
dinosaurs and what do we do with them? So like
first it'll be like little cutie dinosaurs out a parking
like wow, And than other ones were like a fucking
stegga source like blows up a gas truck and you're
like yeah. So it's like that part. I was like,
this is great, this is great. Yeah, wait is this
going to be good? Yeah? But you couldn't so for you, Derek,
like you just saw it and you like it enough

(10:16):
that you want to know what happened, but not enough
to subject yourself to two hours. But your i mean,
your relationship with Jurassic Park sounds like mine. With Star Wars.
I mean, I've seen every whatever they've been eleven now,
even though like you know, maybe two of them were good.
I've seen everyone anyway, and it's like, weird, how things
from the eighties or nineties I'll just pledge these blind

(10:38):
allegiances to and I'm like, I am a guaranteed ticket
sold for all of your terrible fucking output. And I
think that's because there's no outlet for politics, so we
just poured into culture. That's it's really going on there.
You know, back in the day, people used to find
meeting and associations and politics, but since there's really I
think a lack of mass politis x today intact. That

(11:01):
might answer your question a little bit, is just we
par all of our meaning into these cultural products that
we we saw when we were kids, and they made
us feel good, and we keep on trying to make it.
We keep on trying to hit that sort of like
heroin dopamine button, and each time it's a little less.
It's a little less. Yeah, because yeah, if you look
at Jurassic Park as a vein, you'd shoot up into

(11:21):
the first one healthiest ship. That motherfucker was popping out
and by Jurassic World dominion. You're like, man, maybe there's
some ship on the bottoms of my feet. I don't know. Yeah,
you're going through the carpet just looking for anything matching
up little piece of flint stone vitamins on Like a

(11:42):
good heroin metaphor, I like to just keep it going,
you know. But yeah, you know you're running as long
as possible. Yeah, that's what so I I mean, I'm
glad you mentioned that because I will be proposing my
idea to have Ryan Johnson lead the leftist revolution the
director of the Last Jedi, because there has been more
anger and energy around uh, the Last Jedi than I

(12:03):
think maybe, Yeah, any any political movement in my lifetime?
Whoever directed R R R too? Did you watch it? Um?
That's just fucking three I'm it's three hours, but it
flies by five minutes left, so it's but it's all
that to say, I cannot stop watching it. Yeah, have
you guys seen our R R? But I hear it's amazing. Yeah.

(12:26):
I haven't seen it yet either, but I like Danny,
I've heard the best pretty well. What is something you
guys think is overrated? Daniel? Let's start with you the
American Empire. Mm hmm, okay, all right, I mean we're
we're pro American empire in this podcast. What are you
trying to say? Man? Whatever? Bro Well, I think that's

(12:48):
one of the just to get into our little podcast
a bit. One of the reasons that we actually started
it is because we think there's kind of a fawning
coverage in the mainstream media about what the United States
does in the world, And ultimately there's this belief that
I I as a historian, think has been empirically proven incorrect,
that the United States is military and economic power is

(13:10):
going to be able to make the world a better place.
And I think a lot of people really still believe that,
and they believe that out of the goodness of their hearts.
But I just think for reasons we could go into
that that's really not the case. And so I think
that's really one of the most overrated things in American
politics today. And do you think people still actually, like
genuinely believe this. This is actually like I did. I

(13:31):
did like a twenty minute chunk about how weird the
like I hadn't listened to MPR in a number of years,
and then I like started listening to MPR, and I
was just like so taken by how weird the voices,
And I think that like there's like some weird cognitive
dissonance like thing happening with neoliberals and like that, I

(13:52):
think they're like starting to understand like that it's all bad,
but they can't, and so like now they have to
like be talked to like this, and they have to
like have people explain the conflict in Ukraine to them,
like it's a fun wine picnic that they're planning, and like, yeah,

(14:13):
I feel like more and more people it's like creeping
in a little bit absolutely, because it's just hard to deny.
I do think there's a big generational gap, but even
if you look at statistics, I think I might get
this wrong, but it's something like of millennials still think
the United States should like run the world. That's pretty
high still, you know, roughly one and two, and if
you go to boomers, it's like way higher. So I

(14:36):
think I think the way that I view it, it's
more the background assumption the water people swim in the air,
that they breathe. It's not something that they think about
because I think very smartly the United States Imperial State
in the early seventies ended the draft. So if you're
like a normal person, you're really not going to encounter
the military and any way, shape or form really in
your life. And so it just allows the Empire just

(14:58):
kind of humm along in the back round. Uh So,
I think there's an unquestioned support or an unthinking support
for what we do in the world. Another piece of
propaganda that I think is very reflective this is the
new Top Gun movie, where wherein it's just they don't
even pretend to mention another country, Like I think it's
pretty clearly irun but like they are just like these

(15:21):
are the bad guys. They can't have nuclear weapons. We
we blow them up and it's just just baked in there,
so like faceless. It's like a target range with just
like bad guy pop up. You know. I think, I
think so. And we actually just uh we did a
special episode with Chappo trap House on our podcast. We

(15:42):
did Top Gun one on their podcast, we did Top
Gun two or One of the things that's interesting about
that is that that's kind of how Americans view the world, right.
It's like it doesn't matter who they are, We're just
gonna do whatever the fun because we're America, got damnit,
we're the main character exactly, And so I think like
that could be read as a form of critique. I
don't think the intention of critique was there, but you know,

(16:05):
from a postmodernist, the author is dead, so let's just
say it's a critique. Let's do it. How about you, Derek,
what's something you think is overrated? So I didn't, I
didn't take this as seriously. Danny and I kept with
the movie, stuck with the movie theme. Uh. And I
saw that, like the the live action A Laddin was
on TV the only night, and I just thought, like,
these these live action Disney remakes, I haven't seen one

(16:28):
that was better than the like nineteen nineties cartoon. And
I just don't get it. I don't get that. I mean,
I know they make a ton of money. I get
why they get made, but I just don't get why
people care to go see them. So I think they're
I think they're overrated. Laddin, the live action Laddin just
didn't pull out those heart strings. No, I mean it
really didn't. And like, I mean, you know, I saw

(16:50):
I went to see the I remember like going to
the movies to see the Beauty and the Beast remake
because my daughter was at that time of the age
where she was into that kind of thing and just
watching it, and the whole time I couldn't stop going like,
why did why did this have to be made like this?
What was the purpose of making this? And in the
in the minds of the people who did it, like
what were they fixing about the the original? And you know,

(17:12):
you can't think about it think of it? Right? Did
they mention a country at all? Or is it similar
like broadly orientalist Space and Aladdin, because selection I don't
think they mentioned a country. It's a mix between Arabia
and like Pakistani. Well, the original gotten in a in
a ton of trouble they had to like overdub lines

(17:34):
and stuff because it was it was a little bit yeah,
hey hey it's bar Basis. Yeah, that's where it's from,
the places called Agaba in the in the in the
animated version. Yeah, and it's like the taj Mahal, but
but in Arabia kind of. Yeah, it's a it's a
real just a mixing of Muslim cultures. Don't worry over there,
you know, do you guys remember a few years ago

(17:56):
somebody ran a pole and they asked like people they
would bomb a particular country, and they included a like
a third of Republicans said they would support bombing the
nation of Agriba. Yeah, making a democracy. You know, the
the sultan is a monarchy. You gotta turn Agraba into
a democracy. What is something you guys think is under rated? Well,

(18:18):
so I can go here because I have actually I
think I have a serious one for this. Uh. It
was I when I studied when I was in grad school,
I studied Islamic history and one of my favorite figures
in Islamic history is a guy named Hibbin but Tuta,
who is was a traveler in the fourteenth century and
traveled farther if if you believe all of his accounts,

(18:39):
traveled farther than anybody else has ever traveled, basically in
world history before modern times when you could like hop
on a plane. And it was just yesterday was his
the anniversary of the beginning of his hodge, which he
started from Morocco a tangier and then just kept going
after he did the hodge all the way to China
and back. And I don't think enough people know about him.

(19:00):
I think he's very underrated, underrated guy for having traveled
supposedly seventy three thousand some something like seventy three thousand
miles in his lifetime, although it's possible he made up
parts parts of his parts of his travel loog, but
we don't know. Yeah, that's my favorite thing about the
history of like explorers and like, you know, the people

(19:21):
who we lionize, those great explorers. And I'm not saying
this is the case with him, but like a lot
of European explorers, you know, you look at the things
they were claiming to have seen and it's like, oh,
you guys are just like professional liars, right right, right,
And then they were met the three headed people of
the Amazon who were thirteen feet tall, and yeah, yeah,

(19:43):
it's wild man, but you'll never get there. Love Marco Polo. Yeah,
I mean, like, this guy definitely traveled a lot. But
there are some parts of his account, like the China
parts and a couple of other kind of side trips
that that some historians think he may have just cribbed
for somebody else's descriptions travelers named Eben, you know, because

(20:05):
I I studied Viking history and there's uh, who's like
a big one. Yes, yeah, Eve been his son. It's
like Ben and here there is. But yeah, I just
was thinking of him as a guy who's like yeah,
and then I went up the Vulgar River and met
the Vikings. You know what the fuck? Yeah, the North.

(20:25):
So I'm just gonna put it out there traveler as
a as a profession just like hello, friend, I'm just
a fellow traveler. I feel like that's always a nice
mysterious thing to say that I've never thought too as
it's hard to do now as I mean, like, you know,
he was able to like go places, and he had
training as a lawyer, so he or you know, kind
of judge like legal training, so he was able to

(20:48):
get like notes of good conduct all along the way.
To say like this guy knows what he's doing and
he could get jobs wherever he went. It's like a
it's a scholar or a judge. But I don't know.
Nowadays people get like go fund memes or something to
like pay for my trip or whatever. But I don't
know what the modern startment is of that. Yeah, it's
for your travel blog, right, parachhoote sheets pays for your

(21:12):
travel whatever? How about you ding Derek took mine. No,
just kidding. I was gonna recommend a book called The
Tragedy of American Diplomacy. It's a really short book on
US foreign policy, but I think it really gets sort
of at the major trends by guy the hell of
a name, William Appleman Williams. So I recommend people to

(21:35):
check that out William Appleman Williams. Hell. Yeah. I mean,
aside from what's for you, what sort of differentiates it
and why do you why do you suggest it? Because
it really shows the economic basis of a lot of
US foreign policy, the search for export markets, uh, the
search for capital intensive development aid and things like that,

(21:56):
and so it was really influential when it was released
in the teen fifties. And it's just like a very
short and very readable book that explores why the hell
the United States does what it does in the world.
So it tells you how the world actually works. Yes,
how the world. If it was released today would be
like how how the world actually works? One of those

(22:18):
like slate pitch titles, how to explain through this one
cool thing how the United States does everything in the world.
I believe slate pits that's probably a dated reference now,
and that's an elder millennial reference. The kids are gonna
be like what the funk is slate. So we'd like
to actually make this part of the Freakonomics franchise if possible,
Mr Williams, it will be Economic Form Market Williams. Mr

(22:42):
Appleman Williams. Yeah, I mean the apple in his name
could go with the logo of freakonomics. Oh yeah, you
could do w apple w There you go. All right,
let's take a quick break. We'll be right back and

(23:08):
we're back. I was gonna say, and we're good. We're good.
So something we cover a lot on the show is
just like the lack of a revolutionary imagination or like
an imagination for an alternative for how the US could
work with that without the current form of like hyper capitalism.
And then we also have talked about I've like kind

(23:31):
of positive the theory that like they're the public is
generally just out on the current state of things, like
after the like two thousand and eight collapse and then
just the continued persistent like evidence of the like the
whole thing. It's just corruption all the way down and

(23:52):
we're being given like I think logically we should have
two options. One would be leftist alternative or like a
socialist alternative, and the other is fascism. And it feels
like sometimes fashion fascism is the only one that's like
fielding a team in in the modern world, which scares me.
So I don't know, you guys cover all sorts of

(24:14):
very interesting stuff. You're you're very learned, but you you know,
you've covered the history of leftist revolutionaries and you know
countries that are more socialists in the US. So I
just I just wanted to like kind of put that
subject out there too. Yeah. Sure, well, I have a
lot of thoughts about this. It's kind of what I
focus on in my academic work. So I think there's

(24:36):
a lot of things you got to focus on. One,
things that we've been talking about in the general discourse,
of course, like the Senate and the counter majoritarian institutions
of the United States, like the Supreme Court are kind
of baked into the cake from the beginnings, because there's
a skepticism of democracy and the mass just baked into
the cake of the American state. And I think over
the course of the twentieth century, what has happened um

(24:57):
particularly after World War Two, is that the actually exist
sting American state that has been developed, particularly when we're
talking about US foreign policy and US economic policy, has
been specifically designed in a way to ensure that both
ordinary people what you just called the public, but also
Congress doesn't really have that much of an effect on
on foreign policy and economic policy. And this was actually,

(25:18):
this is the period I studied. This was actually a
conscious decision made by American elites because when they were
looking at the nineteen thirties, they saw the rise of
fascism in Europe, they saw the rise of you know,
imperialism in Japan, they saw in response to the Great Depression,
a lot of labor strikes at home, and they became
very skeptical of mass politics because it's really in the
nineteen twenties when you have the first type of real

(25:40):
mass politics, like the radio and all of those sorts
of things allow people to form large collectivities. So over
the course of the twenties and thirties, they become very
skeptical of this, and so from the nineteen forties on,
where they create a state in which ordinary people don't
really have that much say. And I think that's the
experience that we're living in today. It's just it's just
evolved into other directions. And so I wrote actually a

(26:02):
piece for Derek's Substract Foreign Exchanges called the End of
mass Politics, because I think one of the reasons that
everyone feels like they're going crazy today is that all
we do is talk about politics, but there's very little
actual road to make political transformations. I said at the
beginning of the of the show, this is why people
are really interested in culture, but it's also why people
are really interested in fighting online, because there's no real

(26:24):
way to actually channel your political energies into something meaningful.
So we're thinking about a leftist revolution or a change
in actual like fundamental structures of the United States. I
think we need to do like an old school nineteen
thirties power mapping and see where power lies. And right now,
in the literal structure of the American state, power literally

(26:44):
lies with several thousand people living in and around Washington,
d c. Both in the government, like in places like
the State Department and the Defense Defense Department, and then
in nominally private institutions like think tanks, which are really
just analogs of the government. So I think we need
to really reform the structure before we could even start
talking about making actual political and policy changes. So I

(27:05):
think the lack of revolutionary consciousness and the channeling of
a lot of these energies into you know, ephemeral culture,
you know, ephemeral arguing is just really a product of
the literal reality that there's very few ways for us
to actually shape politics. And I think that is what
we need to be focusing on right now, actually making
this country a democracy in a real way, actually bringing

(27:27):
mass politics back cool. So how do we do that?
Star One is identify the problem seriously. I think I
think there's a lot of magical thinking on the left.
I think we we uh. The way that I put
it in this is a little harsh and being a
little bit facetious, but like when we don't have an answer,
we say organized right. But when we say organized right,
what does that mean? When people were organizing in previous

(27:50):
moments in American history, they were organizing with like the
guy or the woman that they spent all day living
next to, working next to, in a real community. What
capital has done over the last forty years is really
reform labor relations so that you have things like the
gig economy, you have things like where people are working
three jobs that prevent the solidarity upon which actional organization relies.

(28:10):
So I think what the first thing to do is
really just take a step back and look at how
power actually functions, and look at how society actually functions,
and from there we could begin to develop actual strategies
for how we can reform some of these very very
um significant obstacles to any form of left wing organizing
or left wing transformation. I think the problem also is

(28:32):
the fact is that right now the left is really
concentrated and basically people who went to college, people who
are relatively highly educated. So there's a significant disconnect from
the working class base, which is partially a function of
this reformulation of labor relations that we really need to
attack head on or there's very little hope I think
for left wing transformation. M Derek any thoughts, Well, I

(28:55):
would see us on all. I would kind of grab
onto something, uh you talked about there, which was the
concept of solidarity, which used to mean something I feel
like just like sort of organized. It doesn't mean anything anymore. Um.
The only times I, you know, most of the time
I heard the word solidarity uses when somebody is scolding

(29:16):
the left in the US for not taking some foreign
policy catastrophy seriously enough. So there was a lot of
this talk with respect to Syria. You see it sometimes
with Ukraine. Now, you know, the sort of like, uh,
you're not doing it right, You're not approaching these issues
with the right mindset. Well, okay, and then you know
you sort of say, what do you what do you

(29:36):
is it that you would like the left to do?
And the answer is always something like solidarity without any
meaning behind it, like we're just supposed to feel solidarity
would feel harder, Yeah, feel harder. I mean, that's that's
really what a lot of this is. It's vibes politics.
It's not real material politics. It's vibes. You know. I
I I have little hope for a true leftist movement

(30:02):
in the US, and even less despite you know, I
know you you guys uh, you know, have talked about
Gabrielle borich In in Chile and and some of the
other kind of Latin American leftists that have come into
power again. It's sort of it's been a little bit
of a wave of late those those movements are are

(30:23):
you know that they're great as far as they go.
They're sort of optimistic as far as they go. But
it's the United States that, ultimately, especially in the Western hemisphere,
sets the terms for how far any movement like that
is allowed to go before there's some kind of pulled back.
And in the Cold War, you know, that would have
been a coup and and you know, possibly the murder

(30:45):
of whoever was being a pain in the as leftist.
Now it's sanctions, it's you know, Cuba, the Cuba Venezuela model.
You know, you can you can see it even in
the leftists who have been elected over the last couple
of years, you know, really like sort of self moderating
in a sense. You know, they run with these backgrounds

(31:07):
that are of the left, but they run campaign they
were on campaigns where the messages don't worry, I'm not
gonna like change that much. I'm not going to nationalize anything.
We're just gonna kind of make some reforms around the edges.
And that message is meant for domestic political audiences, but
it's also meant for the US and it's also meant
for Washington, like don't worry, I'm not going to rock
the boat too much. You know, have to treat me
like Nicholas Maduro or or the Castros so I I

(31:31):
you know, I think as long as the United States
maintains the kind of power that it has to affect
global politics, and I don't mean like geopolitics, like politics,
domestic politics and countries around the world, you know, there's
always going to be a cap on on how far
these things are allowed to go, at least in countries
that are dependent on the US, whether it's for trade

(31:53):
or vulnerable to you know, depend on the US for
military support, or are vulnerable to the U S and
a sick charity sense, there's always going to be this
limit on how far they can go. Do you are
you guys like encouraged by that kind of energy behind
unions right now? Like I've so one thing that like
sticks out to me that that I hear from like

(32:14):
people on the left even is that like the Sanders
campaign and like the inability to to get Sanders the
nomination in was like that was the last chance and
now like it's kind of hopeless from this point forward,
and like it feels like the just the general you know,

(32:38):
the thing that we try to track on this podcast,
the general exeity guys, the Americans shared consciousness like is
moving in the direction like of socialism. Like older people
are dying every day, and like young people are turning
eighteen every day, and like their general outlook on the
world not perfect means, but definitely more sympathetic and like

(33:03):
there's more energy on that front, and like that does
you know that seems to be the thing that fuels
these sorts of movements, is like the students, just because
there's like a reputation that like, well, students don't vote
in America. It's like, well, probably for very good reasons,
like to this point, but like, I don't know, it
just feels like there are things to be optimistic about

(33:27):
within America, at least in terms of like improving the
odds and improving the chances that we can like get
socialist reform like in the country. But yeah, I don't,
I don't know, like I don't have the specifics of
like how that is done. And it does seem like
you know the fact that you like identified the deep state,

(33:49):
well that's something that like is being identified as a
as a problem and like a holder of power, but
it's being identified by like the fascists, you know, absolutely, Yeah,
I mean, I think there's always room for optimism and
there's always room for hope, because that's just the reality.
I mean, the empirical realities that things change over time.
My historian things change over time, so it's never I

(34:11):
don't view what we're saying as black billing necessarily. I
just view it as trying to take a realistic, strategic
look at the situation in order to change it. I
think a couple of things need to be recognized. The
era of you know, great revolutions of the first half
of the twentieth century. In the second half of the
nineteenth century, a lot of that was spurred by literal
things like starvation and food. And one of the great

(34:33):
developments of the twentieth century is the green revolution, which
allowed us to produce a ton of calories for cheap.
So that's a big shift, and I think that that's
not that's not something to be to be underestimated. The
fact that people aren't hungry, the fact that in fact,
in fact, across the class spectrum you could eat a
lot of calories for relatively cheap is actually a huge
obstacle in in in in front of revolution. Um. I

(34:56):
think that's also true for cheap entertainments. But one of
my big predictions that I've been making in the isn't
that the next five and fifty years are going to
see the legalization of a lot of vice, things like
sex work, things like drugs, because I think that's going
to be a solved on revolutionary political energy. Is It's
not gonna be a conscious choice. It's just going to
be something that's going to happen. You're gonna have vice,
and you're gonna have cheap food, and that those two

(35:17):
are really big obstacles in favor revolution of revolution um. Now,
in terms of the of younger people, that that's generally true,
but a lot of the reason that's true is because
younger people have time. And one of the things that
capitalism does very effectively is that the penalty for not
being in the system is like so bad. It's being unhoused,
it's not having access to healthcare, healthcare, it's basically being

(35:40):
considered not a human being. And I correct me from wrong, Derek,
but I think Tennessee just basically made it illegal to
be an unhoused person. So I think you're going to
be see things like that because when you're actually in
the rat race of capital. You have very little time
one to think about revolution or two to enact it.
So before one thing you actually hear throughout history is
kind of like not the kids are gonna save us,

(36:00):
but that there's gonna be revolutionary energy and younger generations.
But oftentimes what happens is as they get a little older,
that revolutionary energies are diticipated just by the dictates of
the system. I am encouraged by Amazon and Starbucks unionization.
I hope that could happen, but I think we just
need to wait and see you to determine whether that

(36:21):
indicates like a return to the nineteen fifties where you
had relatively high levels of unionization in the country. I
think it's an open question, but it is. It is
something hopeful, and it's something that hopefully we'll be able
to build on. My my skepticism is the the institutionalization
of sort of counter revolutionary impulses is just gets more

(36:42):
and more entrenched. You know, I mean anything from jerrymandering,
you know, house districts, to the new hurdle in the
Senate now that you need well it's not that new anymore,
but you know that you need sixty votes to do anything.
A simple majority isn't enough anymore. The court system increasing
LEAs you know, it's always been counter revolutionary to some degree,

(37:03):
But you're talking about things that are being instantiated now
that that are going to take a generation or more
to be washed out and and to have sort of
these structures lifted so that there's room for serious change.
And I think Danny's right. The the the idea of
the revolution to overthrow these things all in one fell

(37:23):
swoop is it's pretty far gone. You talk about over
a longer term, yeah, there, you know, there could be
some reasons to be optimistic, but then you start to
run into things like, you know, are we going to
get another pandemic that's worse than this one? Are we
going to start I know it's gonna be decades before
the United States really starts to feel the effects of
climate change. It's happening already in some other parts of

(37:45):
the world. But what happens when that really becomes a problem.
You know, how does that change politics? And I think
it inevitably is going to reduce the scope of people's
thinking down to a local level. And you know what
am I doing just day to day to survive this,
which makes the possibility of like large scale systematic change.

(38:09):
You know, it's sort of atomizes everybody, makes it harder
to to conceive of anything like that. And I think
you're going to see a return to liberal federalism where
liberal states, because this is where populations are so concentrated,
are starting are going to start to find the federal government.
And that will be very interesting because for most of
the last century, the centralized state was the focus of liberalism.

(38:30):
But I think that it's been captured by so many
reactionary interests that you'll actually see a return to what
might be termed the state's rights liberalism. Um, I'm in California.
I don't know where you guys are, but I think
you're already seeing the glimbers of that. That will be
very interesting, that will be something new in our lifetimes.
I think, Miles, you were making the point recently that
like a lot of the revolutionary energy we saw with

(38:52):
regards to police and the Black Lives Matter movement, a
lot of that started really picking up and getting organized
and making a like gaining national attention around the time
that everything shut down, like during the pandemic, and giving
people time because we took our foot off the pedal

(39:14):
of capitalism and it wasn't crushing people anymore. And they
took a breath and they said, fuck my with the conditions.
The big transformation, I think the big transformation, at least
for what it's going to be remote work. People are
gonna that. People are gonna accept that deal. I think
a lot of people are. You let me not have
to go to the office. I really I like work

(39:34):
all day, but really I worked for three or four
hours and I could live my life. I think that's
a deal. That that's going to be a deal that
capital makes with labor, and I think that's gonna be
that's gonna be a big thing. And it's not a
surprise that you see unionization in the workplaces where you
can't do that, where you can't be a Starbucks remote
worker or an Amazon remote worker, because most workers aren't
remote exactly. And you do have to recognize the second

(39:55):
they could get AI to replace all those workers, they
will now that and that's coming on the horizon platively soon,
and we need to be planning for that if we're serious.
And and this is more than just like a subcultural
identity like being a punk. We need to be like
ready for what that transformation which is coming very soon.
And the way to be ready for that, I think
we can all agree is just when you see a

(40:15):
robot and in the wild, you gotta kick it over, right,
you gotta kick that Yeah, one of those dogs, Yeah,
Kaiser now employees. The big hospital conglomerate out here employs those.
You see them rolling around the city all the time.
Just kick that ship over. That's probably not what you

(40:37):
guys would recommend, but that is interesting, right because everything
like you're saying, like capital always has to find a
way to kind of be like fuck it all right,
let's give him that so it's not full blown like wait,
what the fuck are the bosses doing? We need to
funk them up? Like what then? I think, because that's
why so many people are interested in like U B
I and things like that. It's like, well, if they
don't have fucking jobs, we can't just have hungry people

(41:00):
out in the streets because that, like you're saying, those
are the little bit of seeds of revolutionary action and
to keep people docile. I'm curious like if that how
that will be looked at, like how they are going
to then support a whole other chunk of the population
who isn't able to work because of automation, and how
that's you know, how they're going to subdue those people's

(41:21):
appetites for something better for themselves. I mean, I think
you'd be I as a possibility, but it's going to
come at a cost, at the cost of something else,
and I don't know what that is, but it will
come at the cost of some other part of the
welfare apparatus. Right. Well, Derek, I know you have to run.
We really appreciate you joining us. Yeah, sure, thanks you
let people in. Daniel, you can stick around for great.

(41:46):
I got nothing going on, man, I'm my teaching is done. Derek.
Where can people find you? Follow you all that good stuff? Uh? So,
there's the podcast American Prestige, which is you know, pretty
much anywhere you get your podcast, but please come check
us out. We're on sub stack now. That's our home,
American Prestige pod dot com. And while you're a substack,

(42:08):
you can also check out my newsletter, which is Foreign
Exchanges f X dot substack dot com. Those are the
two places, and c dot gov right obviously. Yeah, but
you know, I don't I don't like to talk about
that open. Yeah, alright, great, great meeting. You thank you
so much for coming on, and we'll be right back.
Thanks for having me. Guys have fun in Davos. Yeah,

(42:28):
thank you, and we're back. And So the January sixth
House Committee Hearing Coochella Coochella primetime event? Was it really

(42:54):
postponed due to yeah, like that dude not being able
to make it? No, no no, no, difficult they said, technical difficulties.
What Yeah, they said, they're I have no fing idea.
I'm they're fucking ninety years old, dude, Like somebody probably
misplaced a thumb drive, Like where's that stick with the
videos on it? You know, like the fuck, we're fucked.

(43:15):
They're the ones that are gonna fucking oh fuck. But
yet was postponed due to technical difficulties. And if you
read the fine print on the poster for Coucella, you
knew that it was subject to things like that, but
they did, I think as like a consolation prize released
some footage of Representative louder Milk from the State of Georgia.
So I don't know if you remember, right after January

(43:37):
six there was a member of Congress who was a
you know, former military that recalled another member of Congress
giving tours. But to them looked suspicious because it looked
more like recon than it did hey, and this is
where I eat lunch. It was more like, yeah, man, like,
look who we're there. Take a picture of this entrance
to this tunnel, and that sort of raised alarm belt.

(44:00):
So I believe let me just make sure it was Yeah,
it was. Representative Mickey Cheryl and louder Milk filed an
ethics complaint against this person against a representative Cheryl because
of this allegation. In around that time, completely denied giving
any fucking tours at all. Never gave a tour ever

(44:21):
to anybody around then the funk you're talking about. Then
this spring he kind of revealed a little more. He's like, okay, fine,
I may have given a tour to like a family
with like some small babies or something, but that was it,
Like there's really nothing to see. And then he even
went onto uh, Laura Ingram's Racist Shriek Show to double
down on the fact that he did absolutely nothing and

(44:44):
this is all just a bunch of hokum, and I
just want to play you this because things begin to
change for Mr louder Milk. Then they say, oh, it
was the Capital complex. There were hundreds of people in
the Capital Complex, the House Office buildings. In fact, it
was the Democrat leader ship ordered the gift shop open
on the fifth because there were so many visitors there.

(45:05):
So Mickey Sheryl's accusation that there were no tours allowed, well,
there are no no tours allowed to the capital, but
there were plenty of people at the House Office buildings
because it was just another day. And now when it
comes out, and no mistake about it. The Capitol Police
were clear that they are trained in looking for suspicious activity,
and the group I had in the House Office buildings

(45:27):
had did nothing suspicions. It was a lie. It was
a smear. They did the same thing to Donald Trump. Okay,
cut to Wednesday when the headline there on the KROM
was they smeared good men. Is that is that a

(45:47):
plan on words that I'm not understanding that like a
few good men they smeared good men. I feel they're
they're completely out of ideas over there, because they're like, man,
we're gonna have to fucking look at video. If you're
as giving a tour in a second. But oh, they're
just smearing you. I can't believe it. And so cut
to now this fucking footage coming out, as the January

(46:11):
six Committee describes it, quote, surveillance footage shows a tour
of approximately ten individuals led by you two areas in
the Rayburn, Longworth and Cannon House office buildings, as well
as the entrances to tunnels leading to the US Capital.
Individuals on the tour photographed and recorded areas of the
complex not typically of interest to tourists, including hallways, staircases,
and security checkpoints. So now he's out here being like,

(46:34):
oh right, so what but they were they were there
for the gift shop. It had nothing to do with
any January six stuff, just because that guy was wearing
a Maga hat. And then you also found out that
one of the people on the tour was live streaming
ship or posting ship to Facebook on the six talking
about We're coming for you Gnadler Pelosi, and those coincide
with pictures they took in the cap. But so it's

(46:58):
very it's like one of those things too, Like we're
saying like that politics isn't like fucking real anymore, because
this guy is just like he's been lying the whole time.
He's on another show that's pretending to a certain group
of the country that it's news and being like it's
all fake, it's all nonsense. And I even have this
letter from the Capitol Police that says they didn't see

(47:18):
anything suspicious, which to me, I think is actually the
thing that sticks out the most at this point because
he's like they're trained into identifying things that are suspicious.
I was like, it looked like some of them were
taking selfies. Is that suspicious to people who broke into
their job? So I'm really curious now, you know, they

(47:39):
say the next day we'll focus on Trump and Pence,
but I'm like, the more and more we we look
at it, and as many of us remember watching the
events on the six being like, yeah, when's the day
about the Capitol Police, Like do you have is that
another day to where you'll talk about anything you that
was determined to be untoward or maybe aiding and ebetting

(48:01):
what was happening, because that it's weird that this letter
helps to quote unquote vindicate this guy who's giving a
capital tour. Now. I don't know if it's because their
own incompetence and they have to say that just to
be like, yeah, we saw that and was it was
it was fine. Okay, maybe we completely funked out up,
but it's the same thing. I don't know. It reminds
me of how like the police in Texas to ur
like we can't show you guys bodycam footage. Yeah, the

(48:27):
I mean this is being programmed. The whole thing is
being programmed by like an ABC News president former at
ABC News president who's like in charge of like the
Martin Bisher interview with Michael Jackson. Like he he's a
lower cut, lowest come denominator guy. And I think the
two decisions that it seems like they've made is um

(48:49):
one to like the thing that really got people was
like Kimberly Gilfoyle getting paid too much for her speech,
which is like women making money, Like they know they
know Americans don't don't like that. So like I feel
like they're doing all of this with like targeting like things,
and then they've decided to ignore the role of the

(49:12):
police in this and just be like, well, Americans love police,
and in fact, we will put like one woman who
was like run over by the rioters, like out front
and center and like put make that a heroic thing,
because like, I think those are two assumptions they've gone
on with. They're just trying to program this as much
as possible, like a Michael Bay movie. I have a

(49:35):
couple of questions for you guys, if that's is that cool? Yeah? Yeah?
So so one, I'm curious what you think of the
fact that they're not going to do any criminal anything.
And then two, I'm just so what's your take on
on the event itself, Like like, so just just to
put my cards on the table. And this might be wrong,

(49:56):
but I'm always skeptical about sort of heating up the
political rhetoric in the society. Uh. And as as someone
who's studied who studied coup attempts and and things like
that in the past. I mean, obviously, I think what
happened was very disturbing, and particularly if you're a congresswoman
in the building on the Democratic side, I mean, very
it could it could have been very dangerous and and

(50:17):
incredibly scary. But I've always been skeptical about calling it
a coup attempt because it just seems like it didn't
have any of the features of what a coup attempt
would need to succeed. Um, and it seems like this
might be and I'd love to hear if you think
that I'm wrong. It seems like this might actually like
channel energies in a direction that is not particularly helpful

(50:38):
for achieving left wing transformation. Uh, it's basically spectacle. Not
only spectacle. They're not even gonna do criminal charges. So
I don't know what from so just away my cards
on the table. I guess I'm a skeptic in that regard.
I was just wondering what you guys, what you guys think. Yeah,
I mean, I'm definitely skeptical. I'm skeptical of any time
the American government is in charge of tackling extremism of

(51:02):
any kind. So from that aspect, I'm like, this seems
like a way to just basically try and push public
sentiment in one direction or another. I mean, obviously, if
if anything's you know, they're going to wreck up, they
can recommend things to the d o J. But the
d o J has their own investigation happening, where if
anything's going to happen, it's probably out of that investigation
rather than this like show and tell of like remember

(51:25):
how bad it was when like they were there. I
think with like the Coop, I like, I think even
with naming a couchel is very tongue in cheek, right,
And I think for Americans we had never seen anything
quite so brazen on TV like that that it's just
like people like, what the funk was that? Uh? And
I think because are like probably are vernacular. The lexicon

(51:49):
that we used in talking about politics is so all
over the place that we're not even using the words
that we even know to mean anything, because we've talked
about like technical sense they like a democracy even we're
just like, well, if we really want to pick that apart.
But I think for me, you know that as I saw,
it was pretty much the audacity of powerful white people

(52:09):
being able to say, yeah, there's a way we can
just kind of keep just do as we please. And
I think that was what that's how That's what I said.
I was like, wow, they they're the fucking law doesn't
exist to these people at all, because, like you're saying,
it was it was the sloppiest attempt at overthrowing an
election when like drunk Rudy Giuliani is running point. So

(52:34):
in that way, we were saved by their ineptitude and
they're just like like weird magical thinking. But yeah, I
mean I guess that is that isn't a a a
dimension I had really thought about of like what the
like rhetorically what that would do, because yeah, I do
get the sense or it's very clear that you know,
conservatives are people on the right one of just as

(52:55):
easily categorize any kind of action from protesters fighting at
capitalism as like an insert like using all of these
other words to kind of just like nullify the importance
or like what people are fighting for for sure, Yeah,
or like the emergence of new domestic terrorism laws, yeah,
because that will be used against the left more of

(53:17):
the time, you know. So yeah, it's just an interesting
moment because it was obviously so dramatic that it's of
course it's going to be a central thing. But I
just I'm worried about sort of the channeling of energies
into something that's pure spectacle when we should be focusing
on especially now that they said the criminal thing. And
I don't think the DJ is going to do anything
because no one wants to start that precedent. I mean

(53:37):
when Biden, when Biden losing, when the Dems losing the midterms,
He's going to be impeached three times. That's gonna that's
the new norm. The new norm is now the president
is going to be impeached. So I don't think that
the d o J is going to prosecute because none
of them want to go to jail. Let me. That's
why they never prosecuted Bush, anyone in the Bush administration
for violating not only international but domestic laws. So I

(53:57):
think it's a it's a very interesting moment, and it's
good to be, you know, to be able to talk
about it in that sense. Yeah, And I think I
think it's real so important for people to like see
how disgusting it is too, like how you're saying, like,
we saw some fucking terrible shit and nothing is going
to be fixed. And I think getting people familiar with
that pattern is also pretty important because you will see, hey,

(54:20):
are you like trying to protect like an unhoused community
or pushing backs against police violence. They'll fucking shoot you
in the eye. But if you're there saying maga and
fucking America, first, you're getting selfies, you know anything that
and and then I mean that Is that much is clear,
I think to most of our listeners. But yeah, there

(54:41):
are there are many other dimensions to it that as
we I think, because like you're saying, we have most
people are experiencing a reality where there's no ability to
affect change. Then we have these weird moments where people
want to put all their back eggs in the basket,
where it's like mother time exactly, Russia Gate, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
goddamn Steel Dossier. I do feel myself like pulled in

(55:05):
two directions because I do worry about fascism, fascism in
this country, and like a belief that like it can
get much worse because we can get worse, Like it
can get worse, and I think it will get like
that is the path we are on. Is it getting
way worse? Because like I said, there are two paths

(55:28):
for America to go forward. I don't think that like
and it sounds crazy and probably might be a little
bit like extreme, but it really feels like the energy
has just gone from the like neoliberal like let Wall
Street lead type kind of ideal that was considered mainstream
in America for so long, and now like you could

(55:49):
go left, like democratic socialist, or you could go in
the direction of fascism and the like America. Like I've
been using this metaphor of like having like America having
an immune system and like America being absolutely allergic to
anything that is like slightly socialist and being very welcoming

(56:11):
of things that are fascist, and like I just I
feel like so seeing these things like I see seeing
like what happened on January six, like it's still like
I think it's serious because it's an indicator of where
things are headed and how much worse things can get

(56:31):
in this country. Like that, I think that's where the
seriousness and like my attention to it is coming from.
Um not necessarily that like they almost they were like
right there and could have overthrown it, but just like that,
this this seems to be what the country is more
comfortable with than any sort of even like soft socialism.

(56:55):
Absolutely in this kind that's fair. Absolutely yeah, yeah, no,
I mean it's that it's all very it all comes
together and we're just look and we're like wow. Because
also so you think about all these people, now, these
maga quing on people who are sending into positions of
like Secretary of States or being able to now have
like their hands on the votes and stuff. You're like,
oh my god, like they're really like they're really going

(57:19):
for it, and yeah, it's it's it's odd to see
just a lack of urgency about things like that's on
a very basic level not good to have people who
are outwardly being like I don't believe reality and I
will determine who you know, what votes mean, or I'll
have a lot of influence potentially in an electoral decision

(57:40):
and those things. Yeah, they all come together. But I
think with the reason why America's I think it's just
more open too. Just like when you put two things
in front of like the American consciousness, it's like, what's
the one that's more aggressive and dominates the weak? Yeah, yeah,
that's kind of more our vibe since the beginning. And
so anything that's like about empathy or being like no,

(58:03):
like we need to we need to take care of
each other, Like what the fund is that I never
heard of? That? I also think, Uh, an important thing
to think about is like what looks more fun? Because
I think generally there's like more despair in American society,
Like people just feel totally disconnected from power, they feel
totally not in charge of their lives. And I think

(58:23):
the big appeal of someone like Trump is that he
channeled all of those in the direction that seemed like
almost gest or like you know, like that that seemed
more more fun. And I do think that we on
the left need to embrace that element of fun, not
in obviously a horrible, racist, disgusting way like someone like
Donald Trump or or Ted Cruz or someone both type.
Cruz is not fun, he just can't fake it. But

(58:45):
I do think like that's an important element of politics
that we never talked about it. It has to be
like exciting when you go to a protest and you
chant it like feels good, It feels fun, It feels
good to be part of something. And I think that
we've we've sort of seeded that territory um and that's
not I don't think that's good for for political strategy
or particularly winning over people who don't really pay attention

(59:05):
to things. But we need to get anything done in
this country, right, So come to our leftist couch, ella.
It's gonna be a really fun event, y'all. We're gonna
exchange some radical ideas and marks on the capital Uh, well,
Daniel has been a real pleasure having you. Where can
people find you? Follow you all that good stuff? Sure

(59:26):
on Twitter at d Bessner and American Prestige. Please like, subscribe,
review listen. Thanks guys, thanks so much for having us
on UM. Is there a tweet or some of the
work of social media you've been enjoying? Oh? Yeah, under
the banner of Heaven? Have you guys been watching that show? No,
it's really good. It's really good. I strongly recommend it.

(59:48):
It's really interesting and I people should check it out.
I love Andrew Garfield. I liked the book when I
read it, and I love any story that takes place
in the you know, Letter day SAT community, the what
do they prefer to be called? Uh, there's the Latter Day? Yeah, yeah,
the LDS and yeah this is this is basically about

(01:00:10):
a radical group. So it's pretty interesting. Oh oh the
what Alrea? You talk about the Netflix documentary I blanked
out for a second, or the book about it? Uh? No,
just the fictionalized. Are they like like FLDS kind of
people and this one like fundamental? I don't think they're FLDS,
but they're they're because they talk about like the differences

(01:00:31):
between fl I think, but they're Yeah, they're basically a
radical break off group. There's so much like LDS stuff
going on right now. There's like that Netflix documentary to
about that FLDS community. Miles, where can people find you?
With the tweet you've been enjoying, Find me on Twitter
and Instagram at Miles of Gray. If you like basketball,

(01:00:52):
check out the latest episode of Miles and Jack Got Mad.
Boost these where we distract ourselves with sports and if
you want to hear me just tracked myself with reality TV,
check out four twenty Day Fiance, where you know, we
just trying trying to zone out on something. A tweet
I like is from Amy at l O L and
Louis tweeted, Oh, we're in a bear market. Well I

(01:01:15):
think we're in a Platypus store. That's what you sound like.
That's you all right? Uh tweet I've been enjoying no context.
Brits tweeted a picture of a big Mac that has
a label onside that's British and Irish Beef. Then they
just tweeted the troubles. That was a good one. I
saw that. Oh, actually, at American Process, we're doing a

(01:01:36):
long history on the ira A. So this week on Saturday,
we're releasing our third episode on the history of the
i RA. So if anyone's interested in Irish history, please
check that out. There you go. You can find me
on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us
on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. Were at the Daily Zigeist
on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website,
daily ze geist dot com where we post our episodes

(01:01:59):
and our foot where we link off the information that
we talked about in today's episode, as well as a
song that we think you might enjoy Mile Aslo song
do we think people might end? This is a group
called Polo and Pun and they are like a Parisian
duo and they it's just it's like very cinematic sounding,

(01:02:19):
you know. I like music where like when you listen
to it, like it immediately sets off like your visual imagination.
And this is a track called Le Jolie shows hey,
and I'll look, I'm not a good French speaker, but
I'll say like an American less Jolly's choses. Okay, if
you wanted to google that ship by Polo and p
A and Pants, but it's this sounds like you're in

(01:02:41):
like some you know, French new wave film or something,
but it's just caught. I don't know, it's it's it's
it's enjoyed. It's enjoyed. So put that in your ears
on this wonderful Thursday. All right, Well, the Daily is, like, guys,
a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
my Heart Radio is the I Heart Radio app, Apple
podcast or wherever you listen your favorite shows, You guys
gonna do it for us this morning. We're back this

(01:03:01):
afternoon to tell you what's trending, and we'll talk to
y'all don by five mm