August 28, 2024 • 38 mins
Miles and Jack were honored to be joined by longtime NBA and NCAA coach, USC Men’s Basketball head coach Eric Musselman on today’s episode! The trio enjoyed a wide-ranging conversation about the current state of affairs in the NBA, the international game, Coach Musselman’s prior experience working with the late, great Jerry West and plenty more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, well, well, we're back again for episode one, and
we've got a very special episode in store for you
today as we continue getting ready for the upcoming season
with a former long term NBA assistant and head coach,
currently the head coach of USC's men's basketball team, Eric Musselman,
on today's episode.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, look, this is the top tier show.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
What wait, it's what we do. It's what we do,
got Eric?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, yes, okayim, he's here now, Okay for in a moment,
but let me introduce myself.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
There.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I'm Jack O'Brien and this is my Boosties do Sorry,
got it? Looka don chic his Okay?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Here you gob driving spinty fat number night Gene.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Secure.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Let's sell picture NBA champions over the double team.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
To be honest with the time, Eric Musselman, coach muss,
welcome to the show. Even though I am a former
Bruin at heart, I welcome you as the USC men's
basketball coach to our illustrious show. Thank you so much
for joining us. I mean, look, you've we were saying
(01:26):
like before you actually got on. I'm like, I think
this guy has probably seen the game from almost every
conceivable angle in terms of coaching and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So it's really great to have you here so we
can pick your brain a bit.
Speaker 6 (01:38):
Now, Thanks Miles, I appreciate you and and jack having
me on today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely So. We have so
many questions. We don't even know where to start. Which
way should we go? Jackson's to us since we are
the hosts.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, I mean you you recently told a story about
working with Jerry West that was pretty interesting to us.
Get to sort of just the level of skill, the
level of intensity that I feel like you only see
behind the scenes. Can you talk about just your experience
with with Jerry West just to give people a little
(02:13):
taste of like what kind of you've seen it all?
It's Blade Runner.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
There's so many stories. You know, working at Memphis, the
head coach was Mike Urtello, I was one of the
assistant coaches. Obviously, Jerry West was the general manager. And
you know, I like in the draft room, Uh, the
most competitive person I've ever been around. And you know
(02:40):
there was a game where Kenyan Martin was not blocked
out by one of our bigs and UH, and Jerry
West came in after the game.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
In the locker room, uh, and addressed the non blockout
in about is the most intense post game locker rooms
situation I've ever seen. Can't really use a lot of
the words that were used in that locker room that
night on not blocking out Kenyan Martin, But I mean
there were so many stories that you know. One of
(03:12):
them I was I was rebounding or working out whatever
term you want to use for Dante Jones and the
phone rang at the Scorge table. It was like a
four point thirty in the afternoon for seven o'clock seven
oh five tip off, and the phone kept ringing and
Scott Adebata was one of the assistants, and he said,
(03:34):
must go answer that phone. It's probably Jerry West. And
I had just joined the team, because remember that was
the year that for Tello, I took over you for
Huby Brown once the season was already underway and the
only coaching changes were for Tello and then myself. And
what had happened is Jerry was watching the workout that
I was putting Dante Jones through and didn't agree with
(03:57):
some of the skilled development stuff I was working on,
some of the areas that I thought Dante needed to
improve on Wow, Jerry just wanted him to work on
what he was going to do that night, and he
used to sit up in the owners suite and watch.
He wanted to know who the first players on the
floor were for the opposing team and our own home team,
(04:17):
and then he wanted to watch the players work out
to look at their intensity level, attention to detail, and
he wanted to watch the assistant coaches on both teams
to see who knew what they were doing. So that's
just one example of his attention to detail and then
his work ethic. Obviously for a guy of his stature,
(04:37):
I mean, he's the logo and he's there, first executive
in the building at four point thirty, already up in
his little perch waiting to see and look down and
evaluate everybody that was on the floor, way before even
the first bus came, because obviously in the NBA there's
a first bus, second bus. He wanted to see about
(04:58):
those guys that were you in a taxi cab with
maybe a lower level assistant coach at the time. So
super super detail and about as competitive as any human
being I've ever been around.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
How is his competitiveness And in the draft room, specifically
because I mean legendarily the guy who saw Kobe before
anybody else saw Kobe. But like, how is how is
that manifesting itself?
Speaker 6 (05:23):
Yeah, I mean I think all those Kobe stories I
wasn't around obviously, then I think they're all true.
Speaker 7 (05:29):
I know that.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
You know, the year that I was with him, he
went and saw Monte Ellis play before anyone really knew
who Monte Ellis was. And he came back and said
that he thought he saw a guy that could average
fifteen and twenty points a night, and he was right.
And you know, that was evaluating a high school player,
which is you know, super super hard to do. Yeah,
(05:53):
and we just were we drafted that year. It was
more in the mid first, so we were not going
to take Monte early. But I remember him keep saying, like, hey,
Monte Ellis is going to be better than any of
these guys that were going to draft in the mid first.
But he had his eye on uh Gerald Green uh
and Danny Granger, and both those guys went pretty close
(06:17):
to right before uh we picked, and he walked out
of the draft room. He was so frustrated that those
two guys had gone directly in front of our pick,
which ended up that year being Hakeem Warwick. But he
was so competitive and was so fired up to get
one of those two guys, and and and and he
(06:38):
was he was so right on with his evaluation of
players and how they would fit in with the current roster.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I get that.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I I sometimes get frustrated when I got my eye
on someone in a fantasy draft and taken, you know,
a couple of picks before me. So basically the same thing.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
We were on the clock, you know what I mean.
It's like, hey man, we're down to nine minutes.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, you got to make a pick, and it's he's
just leaving because he's so mad.
Speaker 6 (07:05):
Yeah, it was between an NC State guard that Denver
took and Warwick and and we're trying to make this decision.
And then Jerry came in about a minute and a
half before the draft and and went with the guy
that had a little bit more size.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
There you go. Was it hard to argue with him
when he when you're taking a call from him, I'm
assuming he's being very diplomatic about telling you what you
should be doing with Dante Jones, setting your workout and
just being like taking your feelings into consideration, But you
did you have a moment where you look down and
(07:40):
looked at the logo and you were like, the logo
is calling me.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, Well, the.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
First encounter with with with Jerry West was, uh, we
had made a trade in Golden State going into my
year two and we had a really good year one
with a lot of young pieces. But Gilbert Arena swalked
after year one and there was a shift in the
organization where they went with a lot of older vets,
(08:09):
probably knowing they were going to fire me, and they
were going to fire the general manager, Gary Saint Jean
and Chris Mullen was going to take over, right, Avery Johnson,
Popeye Jones, Nick Van Exel. We got a whole group
of older guys that were coming into our program. But
a trade was made and Jerry called me and said
(08:31):
you're gonna get fired time in the next twelve months
based on the way the roster was moving, and he
was one thousand percent right. That was literally the first
time that I ever talked to Jerry West.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Hey, man's up, you get fired, coach, and let me
start the clock real quick.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
There's the countdown.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
Yeah. She hit my phone and said, hey, Jerry West
is on. At that point, I was like thirty seven
year old coach and I'm like, hey, just directed to
Jarry Saint Geane like I don't want to, you know,
be involved with talking to another GM, and she said no,
he insists in talking to you. It's not necessarily about
a trade proposal. And I got on and literally he said,
(09:12):
you're not going to make it bad. Chemistry stuff going
on there with your with your with your additions and
so on and so forth, and he goes, you'll be
fired in twelve months. Click and wow, he gave me
three months more than what I actually got from the
from the moment of the phone.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
He was he just doing that to talk trash or
was he like, so keep us in mind when you're
looking for the next job, or what was his purpose
in telling you that you were about to get fired,
just like something he had figured out and wanted to
make sure you knew.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I'm not really sure, you know, Jerry mysterious way. I don't.
I'm not really sure what was when he when he
made the hire of of coach for Tello. I was,
you know, I got a phone call right after he
and coach for Tello got you know, came to an agreement,
and you know, he was the one guy that I
brought on with Mike. So I don't know if he
(10:07):
had been watching studying or what, but but I you know,
was fortunate enough to then end up working for him obviously.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, like in terms of, like I identifying talent
and stuff. I know you've seen a lot of players
come through and had your own sort of opinions on
them and what their careers could be. I mean I've
heard that, like, you know, when you were in Orlando
and ninety eight, you you're like Dirk, Dirk, like, what
was sort of like, you know, give me a little
(10:36):
bit of texture in terms of like what your experience
has been, because I know you had also seen Vince
Carter or like Deer and Fox and seen something special
but sort of described like for you, like what those
experiences are like and seeing them and kind of immediately
sort of trying to get your gears going and you're like, Okay,
I see the weaknesses here, these are the strengths in
the past. Nope, this will be good in a couple
of years, or you know what, how does that? How
(10:56):
does that work in your mind, especially after you know,
being around so many really gift at people in the game.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean, you know, my role kind of in
Orlando was John Gabriel was a general manager and Chuck
Daly was the head coach, and it was kind of
a bridge between because I had come from the minor
leagues in the old CBA, so when we needed to,
you know, call a player up, I was heavily involved
in that stuff. But then Coach Daily had, you know,
kind of because I was so young, I wanted to
(11:23):
mentor me in evaluation and and and how to kind
of go maybe potentially in that player personnel development role.
And you know that particular draft, like John Gabriel sent
me to watch Vince Carter playing Daytona Beach because he
was from Daytona Beach and they played Bethune Cookman and
(11:44):
I came back, and you know, my eval was that,
you know, he was always grabbing a different body part.
He looked like he was always hurt. You know, the
particular game he got poked in the eye and went
in the locker room for a brief moment. And then
I look back all these years later and I'm like,
you know, how dumb was my worst email ever.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
You know, I don't know, he didn't have much like
his He didn't have a long career, did he he
was yeah, yeah, yeah, But that.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
That same draft for Shard Lewis had come out, and
part of my stuff was hanging out in the weight
room when the when the strength coach tested him, and
Mick Smith was our strength coach, and I just remember
how little Rashard Lewis could bench press, you know that
when I tried to report back to coach daily and
(12:45):
then John Gabriel, I just you know, continually talked about, hey,
I don't know how his body is going to withstand uh,
NBA Force and NBA and then obviously another guy. But
but I feel super lucky that I was part of
remembering my opinion and how that opinion was wrong because
I lacked experience, yeah, and I lacked the vision and
(13:08):
looking long term. So I think it's really helped me
at the collegiate level, looking back at some of the
stuff that that I said about players when they were
coming out of college.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah right, you weren't the only one, by the way,
who had that year's draft wrong. Michael Olowa Candy went
number one, like Bibby who was you know, all these
things made sense at the time. Rafe LaFrentz maybe didn't
make as much sense at the time.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And then Anton Jamison, his own teammate, went before Vince Carter.
I still remember that draft because my dad was an
assistant for the Boston Celtics, and it was like peak
me being like super bought into just whatever was going on,
like you know, needling him for any extra information that
he could get me. And he was like, there's this
(13:54):
guy Dirk Noowitsky that like if we can, I think
he might slide to us. They were at ten, and
like he was just like all week all we care about.
We're just like begging, like hoping that Navitzky slides to us,
and he went one before he went number nine and
there but Paul Pierce slid that year for no, for
(14:16):
no good reason, like nobody has a good explanation for
why he ended up at ten, and so they ended
up with a you know, generational player anyways, But yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
The Dirk story too, for that that I experienced, Jack
was we did not know who Dirk was. About thirty
days before the draft. We had not his name wasn't
on the draft board. Word started circulating about three weeks
before the draft, at least for our you know draft
(14:45):
war room in Orlando, and then we tried to go
over there. We tried to send different staff members over there,
and and to my you know memory, you know, don
Nelson just had him on lockdown. Like there was all
types of stories about how how Dirt couldn't play, and
I really truly think it was a lot of it
was fabricated by the Dallas Mavericks and and Don Nelson.
(15:09):
You know, one of the stories, you know, with the
Timberwolves was in the inaugural year, Don Nelson had called
my dad and told him how bad Tim Hardaway's knees were.
And we drafted poor Richardson and he turned into a
really good player for us. But obviously Tim Hardaway's a
Hall of Famer and Tim Hardaway don Nelson Nelson who
(15:33):
was telling my dad he had a bad meat. So
you know, part of the game, never hear any never
believe anything you hear in the draft room.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, amazing, all right, we should take let's take a
quick break. We'll come back. We'll get into uh, just
kind of the different eras the conversation that started with Aunt,
but that we like to talk about about whether basketball
is progressive, Are the guys getting better? Is the game
getting better?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Be right back.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
And we're back and coach. This is something I think
the first episode we talked about this idea that basketball
kind of has this specific shape to it at least.
This is my thinking that, like, you know, baseball, part
of the appeal is that it's been the same game
for a long enough time that like the stats are
comparable and you know, basketball really like you can just
(16:33):
look at games from ten years ago, fifteen years ago
and like see a pronounced difference in how the game
is played, and it seems like they're adding new skills,
Like you can see the players getting better and or
at least getting good in different ways. And so just
(16:54):
curious to hear your thoughts on that, Like is that
something that you kind of are keeping in mind or
that gets you excited about the game.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, I'm a
big baseball fan. I think, like you know, when you
look at baseball, I mean it's it's predominantly played in
the United States in places like Dominican Republic in Venezuela,
so it's kind of a smaller world participation right and
what I believe has changed the NBA is the influx
(17:25):
of the of the overseas coaching and players and the
fundamentally sound players that have come over from outside the
United States. The coaching right now, like if you're sitting
in the USC's office and you want to try to
come up with a new offensive scheme that's a little
bit outside the box, more than likely you're turning on
(17:46):
a FOBA game because there's body movement, there's player movement,
there's there's five to six seven passes being made. There's
three to four to five options instead of one or
two options. I think the creativity of of of FOEBA
basketball right now is as at a way way high level.
(18:08):
I don't think the coaching is any necessarily better in
the NBA than it than it has been in the past.
I look at QB Brown and and and and your
dad and his defensive reputation, and the Mike Bertello's and
the Chucked and the pat Rileys. I don't necessarily think
(18:28):
the coaching in the NBA is any better. I actually
think the coaching has dipped in the n b A
and and has slid a little bit compared to what
it was. You know, the guys like Cotton fitz Simmons,
those guys worked their way up and and were unbelievable
X and O coaches and guys like Doug mo way
(18:49):
ahead of their time. From a passing standpoint, George Carl,
but I do think the European coaching and European players
have changed the NBA and made the game better than
it ever has been. And you do you know, nobody
fifteen years ago would have thought player would have the
shots selection of Steph Curry. So because of player development,
(19:14):
because of you know, the work ethic, and guys solely
focusing on one sport. When I grew up, you know,
if you were a decent athlete, you played three sports, right,
That does not happen anymore. Players going into their eighth
grade a year pretty much have to commit to one sport.
(19:35):
And that's another reason why I think you see better
players than maybe what you've seen in the past.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
A lot of people I hear criticism a lot is
like that.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
A lot of the players coming from overseas, there's so
much emphasis on like teamwork and team play, where in
the US it's become a lot more individualized, and you know,
we're like in the business of really churning out stars
rather than getting kids more familiar with playing like a
team game. How do you look at that or or
how do you like sort of balance the two or
does do you see that as a deficit or more
(20:06):
just that the emphasis is different and they sort of
kind of blend together and they sort of compliment each
other once these players are together, No.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Miles, It's really interesting when I ask our players or recruits, Hey,
who is your favorite NBA team? Almost nine out of
ten guys say, oh, I don't have a team. I
have a player. I like whoever Durant's playing on, or
I like whatever team Kyrie's on. When I grew up,
(20:35):
I mean, you were either a Laker fan or a
Celtic fan.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I mean, for the most part, for sure, sure.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
And I never almost never hear a player say, hey,
I got this team. It's always hey, I like Miami
when Lebron was there. I like the Cavs when Lebron's there.
I like the Lakers now because Lebron that's a whole
different mentality, you know. Then when I grew up, for sure,
So I think that the star power has changed. I
(21:05):
think even when you look at women's basketball, like the
star power right now is really really prevalent in in
the in the women's game, in the w n b A,
and so I think it's just a different mentality of
maybe what younger people feel about the game and how
they're attached to two stars, you know. I mean, shoot,
(21:28):
when I grew up, if if if a guy played
on your favorite team and then he walked from for
free agency or got traded, you.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Didn't like to player at all, right, right, right, yeah, right, yeah,
it was wrong with you. You never forgave him, yeah,
of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, total yah.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So one of the things that this is in the
news lately because somebody who didn't do the one sport
thing who actually was more of a football player, I
think through high school, Anthony Edwards and then like kind
of started coming around to basketball became one of the
best players in the in the world. Was asked about
(22:06):
players in the eighties and his quote starts out, I
didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't
speak on it, and that should have been the end
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, right, but confident guy, Yeah, he's like, what if
I must answer.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But then yeah, he kept on. They say it was
tougher back then than it is now, But I don't
think anybody had skill back then. Michael Jordan was the
only one that really had skill, you know what I mean.
So that's why when they saw Kobe they were like,
oh my gosh, now everybody has skill. It really feels
like my six year old trying to like having watched
(22:46):
three YouTube videos, like trying to come up with an
explanation of like thirty years the best. Well, so they
saw this guy and then this other guy who also
has a lot of highlights. Everyone was like, wow, he's.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Also then that guy dunked really good in that one clip.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh to Magic Johnson, who I'm just hearing about now
in this story but apparently also a good player now.
Magic in response, I never respond to a guy who's
never won a championship. He didn't win a college championship.
I don't even think he won a high school championship.
So he's gotten a little snippy, Yeah I do. I
(23:25):
don't know, like this seems like it takes it too
far in the other direction of Blake. It's nobody was
good back.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, But then then Kevin Garnett on his show of
Paul Pierce, Like Kevin Garnett was like, He's like, I
don't think these kids could have even lasted twenty years ago.
Felt like, again, I know the I'm like, I have
great love for the nineties, eighties and two thousand, so
I understand the pain to hear someone say Michael Jordan
was the only player with skill.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But that felt like a bit of like a overreaction
to that response.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
He kept saying like, you can't hit no triple step
back three like anymore now, And sure, that's one thing
we're talking about, But to say that they couldn't last,
I don't know. I think they would adapt if that's
how the game is being played. I guess two parts.
Do you just look at that as like sort of
like the hubris and confidence of a young player like
Anthony Edwards, like obviously he's starting off acknowledging his ignorance there,
(24:15):
but also as someone who has coached young young people
who are getting in the game, how much emphasis do
you put on people understanding the foundations of the game
and how the game has been played, or do you
kind of think it's not as relevant to how we're
playing now.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Well, to answer the second part, I think for sure
it's relevant. I think that young players should watch Magic
Johnson and see his vision, see his willingness to be
a passer, see his willingness to make teammates better. I mean,
he's probably one of the greatest teammates, maybe the greatest
teammate ever, because I mean you saw in that Philadelphia
(24:50):
series when Kareem couldn't play and Magic went and played
the five spot and was shooting hook shots. I mean,
how many guys could ever play the one in the
five in the same championship round. It just doesn't happen.
But he could do it. He's probably the only player
in the history of the game that could play the
one one night and then go play the five and
(25:11):
be equally effective. But I do think there's some brilliance
in Anthony Edwards too, Like he must watch TV in
an interview because you never know what he's gonna say. Sure, yeah,
And so there is beauty in the fact that he
can bring attention with some of his you know comments
(25:32):
and you know, cause discussion points. But look, when I
look back at game planning, you know, when you had
the game plan for Charles Barkley. That's about as heart
a guy as ever. The game plan. Yeah, mid post
draw fouls, six foot four, but built like a linebacker,
(25:53):
like could draw a rethrow attempt as well as anybody
in today's game. So I think that all the young
player should really sit down. There should almost be like
a history class, right for every college player where they
take a class, you know, once a week for an
hour where you go back and you look at, you know,
how did Carl Malone improve as a free throw shooter?
(26:16):
Like that thing is that story on his free throw
percentage increase is a phenomenal story. So I think that
you got to know the history of the game because
I think it's it's the only way to learn. It's
the only way to to try to get you know,
little nuggets that can help you improve as well.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I mean, part of I think aunts appeal also is
that he brings a sort of new to this earth
point of view, Like that one interview where you like
heard an Irish accent for the first time, it was like, oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Kind of cool. Yeah, like that kind of like that
so from Iron, Yeah, So that's.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
What that His description of NBA history seemed like to me.
Is like someone who just found out about that there
wasn't an NBA in the eighties and nineties and.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It wasn't just Michael Jordan playing himself the whole time.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's like, huh.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Okay, I saw the documentary Space Jam and I was intrigued,
so I wanted to learn more after that. But yeah,
but I mean I think that's kind of like what
makes the comment obviously not like feel like too antagonistic
or anything, because he does start off, admittedly just saying like, hey,
I didn't watch, so I can't so what I'm about
to say, don't bother.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Taking it seriously because the world were text.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, but it's just funny even to do that, like
you say, and then still give the answer and then
everyone's like it comes out with their pitchforks. But like,
as you talk about history for you, we've been talking
about sort of some older players that you know, we
have like listeners that span many generations in terms of fandom.
A lot of younger fans, you know, some like to
(27:53):
get into highlights and look at old tape and see
how like the players of Yesterdyear played, But who are
like some people that you feel like you would you
would emphasize to your players, who are you kind of.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Like does everybody know about this player?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Does everybody know about this person's game or the evolution
they had with their game? Like who are some people
like that? Do you feel as somebody who's leading younger players?
Like who are those sort of important players that you'd
want them to be familiar with?
Speaker 6 (28:17):
I mean I think when I, you know, you look
at the point guard screening of John Stockton, like you know,
I think point guards need to look at a tape
of John Stockton and see how physical he was at
setting screens. Obviously we all know about the assist with Stockton,
you know. I think when you look at off guards,
you could think about like Rip Hamilton running off of
(28:39):
screens and the pace that he used to come off
as screens. I think, you know, when you when you
think about small forwards like Dominic Wilkins, everybody talks about
the human highlight reel, but in reality, guys like Dominic Wilkins,
Bernard King, those guys were great small forward rebounders. You know, Yeah,
(29:00):
you could rebound your position and then you had a
small forward like those guys that could arrange rebound rebound
outside their area. So I think there's a you know,
Carl Malone's pick and roll game, understanding when to roll,
understanding when to pop, understanding how to draw fouls at
that power forward spot. And then certainly, you know, if
you're a big guy, you know, if you watch Bill
(29:22):
Walton's passing and his vision and his full court passing,
or Wes Unsell and his outlet passing, or even his
inbound passes after a made basket, and then you know,
I'm surprised that more guys that are six ten, six
eleven seven foot have not tried to, you know, emulate
Kareem Abdul Jabbar with this hookshot. So I think there's
(29:42):
a lot of guys that's just off the top of
my head. If you're a if you're a player that's
being moved to the point guard position, you have size,
certainly you should watch the way that Magic Johnson would
get his team into offense where he might have to
play with his back to his rim because of his size,
but he could look over his shoulder and find people.
I know that you know, we did that with Cody
(30:03):
Martin a little bit where where where we've tried to
convert him from a four to a point guard and
Magic Johnson clips were something that we felt were important.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Oh that's cool, all right, coach, let's take one more break.
We'll come back, and you are in for the rapid
fire round of questions, the fastest question answer segment in
the history of this podcast. So we'll take a quick break.
We'll be right back, getting your triple threat position, because
it's gonna be yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Deny, deny, den't I deny, and we're back.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We're back.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
Us.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
You know they're gonna say, I'm really enjoying this because
you're the head coach of SC men's basketball. But really,
the hot seat is for everyone. It doesn't discriminate, and
it's hot for everybody. This is the fastest question answer
segment off podcasting history, at least on this podcast history.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Where we're gonna ask you a question. Just just take
us quick second to think about it. Just chest pass
it right back, fire right back.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Don't give too long of an answer, because we want
to keep our title of the fastest question and answer
segment off podcasting history. And if you take too long,
we will be rude to you. And I just want
to warn you that that that's just that's the caveat
I want to enter with. So there's no hurt feelings
or surprises because we take our superlative title very seriously.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That we gave ourselves.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
That we gave ourselves. Obviously there's an asterisk by that,
but don't read the fine print.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Uh, Jackie ready? Yeah, coach mus you ready?
Speaker 6 (31:42):
Yep? Let's do it, all right, ran start the clock.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
This is the fastest segment of all time. Should should we?
Who's going to go first? You should? I could go first?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I think first one? All right, go Chris Thomas h
Are you familiar with the concept of nominative determinism, where
a person's name determines what they do for a living,
Examples being Hussein Bolt becoming a sprinter. Doug Bowser is
the name of the person who is the head of
Nintendo America, or somebody who works in a gym and
(32:19):
in sports with the last name muscleman. Has that ever
come up?
Speaker 6 (32:23):
That has never come up?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Okay, No, we just made history.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Been your life?
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Yeah, that's history?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
All right? Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I mean you're kind of shredded and you've got dumbbells
on your shirt right there?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah. In the gym.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I saw you in Nevada. I saw that clip
of you on a on a treadmill highlighting while running.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I was like this, Yeah, how do you do that?
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Yeah? I still do it. I go six miles every
day with the highlighter and print articles before I leave
for work, and then highlight them the next morning, and
then the staff all gets the cliff notes of leadership articles,
coaching articles. I do it every day.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh amazing.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I was gonna say, you're hertridges running through a moment. Yeah,
you're regular at Staples, aren't you.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Coach bus is back just load up his toner.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
The Atlanta Hawks stan cast and actually called me into
the office and told me stop printing and if I
printed a article that was in color, I had to
use black and white. That was Lanta Hawk's president at
the time.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Wow wow, wow wow.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Now the president of the Dodgers. Uh yeah, what a guy. Okay,
next question. This is something we've been talking. We've been
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Players of yesteryear.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
But I'm just curious, even though we wrapped up our
nineties nostalgia series, we want to play a game of
would he be even better now in this era? And
I'll give you three players, and you kind of give
me your thoughts if, if if they ended up in
our current era.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Amari Stodemeyer, Andre Kirolinko and lamar Odom.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
How do you see what you look at those two players,
who do you feel would really thrive in our current era?
Speaker 6 (34:05):
Lamar odhim, I think he was one of the first
positionless players, a guy that could play three, four to
two if need be, could play a little bit of
point forward. So I would say, Odim, that's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Okay, Wow, I agreement that was the right answer. That
was the right answer.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
That was but I you didn't need to make fun
of us for how easy it was. All Right, that's
the easiest question I've ever been asked. That's actually I
answered that with my eyes closed. Do you is there
a player other than those three that sticks in your mind?
Like you mentioned Barkley being really hard to game plan four,
But is there a player that you're like, God, if
(34:43):
he had come along twenty years later, he would have
been incredible.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Doctor J. Yeah, he was just like he could play
in any era. And I think about social media now
and how every highlight gets exemplified and put out. The
Doctor J would make a lot of money. When you
think about his personality, when you think about how artistic
(35:08):
his game was.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
That his name was doctor j It's pretty cool. The
dopest name ever.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I remember as a kid, I thought he was an
actual doctor, like when I first heard of him, and well,
but I was like, but don't you go to college
for like four years and then you go to the NBA.
But then he became a doctor And my dad was
like he had just never told me. He's like, yeah,
but he's a doctor.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
H And I'm impressive.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I embarrassed myself in fifth grade. Pretty bad, coach Musk.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
From your perspective, you know, looking at this upcoming NBA season,
who do you see as kind of like a dark
horse team, like someone we're not talking about, but as
you've seen some bit of progression, you feel like, Okay,
this is.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
A team that I think, you know is going to
make some noise.
Speaker 6 (35:53):
You know, we're so I'm so immersed in the in
the college game. I mean I do like so, you know,
like Timberwolves are, in my mind, are a team that
if they remain healthy, if their coach can remain healthy.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
As well, Uh, I get taken out.
Speaker 6 (36:08):
I like what Minnesota has, you know, with the size
and and and a superstar player and a team that
continues or organization that continues uh to get better and better.
And and you know for me, I you know, I
like watching the Utah Jazz play just uh from a
studying a younger roster with a younger coach that runs
(36:29):
really really good stuff. So that's a team that I
like to watch. And then Oklahoma City is another team
that that I love to watch, another really good young
coach with some really great young pieces. Actually have two
of our Arkansas guys. So you know, I'm a big
Thunder fan. And and uh and I think I think
the Thunder and t Wolves both can make noise this year.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Wow, word for word again, you got it exactly right.
The answer is looking at our note, I think he
might be copying off of me, off my answer sheet.
We'll coach Muscleman. What a pleasure having you on Miles
and Jack got mad Booth. Yes, uh, congratulations and looking
forward to seeing what the what the Trojans do this
(37:13):
year here in southern California. Where can people find you?
Follow you? You know all of that stuff?
Speaker 6 (37:22):
Yeah on Twitter, it's just DP Muscleman and we're pretty
active on social media. I know it's a little bit
outside of the way I was raised with, you know,
coming much like you did, Jack, when you know, your
dad was pretty old school, so was my dad, but
you got to change with the times, and so I'm
(37:42):
pretty active on social media, at least I try to
be for recruiting. But hey, it's been great joining you guys.
I appreciate it. Jack, Miles, thanks so much for.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Having me on Oh yeah, thanks man.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
All right, well, you can follow us at the hashtag
mad boost He's beat A S t i e Y
for show links and updates, and you can join the
conversation on our discord server, and you can follow me
on Twitter at Miles of Great.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I'm at Jack Underscore O'Brien.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And that was another splendid edition of Miles and Jack
dot Mad Boosties with Coach where Musselman thank you so
much for joining us again and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Bye bye,
Well, well, well, we're back again for episode one, and
we've got a very special episode in store for you
today as we continue getting ready for the upcoming season
with a former long term NBA assistant and head coach,
currently the head coach of USC's men's basketball team, Eric Musselman,
on today's episode.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, look, this is the top tier show.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
What wait, it's what we do. It's what we do,
got Eric?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, yes, okayim, he's here now, Okay for in a moment,
but let me introduce myself.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
There.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I'm Jack O'Brien and this is my Boosties do Sorry,
got it? Looka don chic his Okay?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Here you gob driving spinty fat number night Gene.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Secure.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Let's sell picture NBA champions over the double team.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
To be honest with the time, Eric Musselman, coach muss,
welcome to the show. Even though I am a former
Bruin at heart, I welcome you as the USC men's
basketball coach to our illustrious show. Thank you so much
for joining us. I mean, look, you've we were saying
(01:26):
like before you actually got on. I'm like, I think
this guy has probably seen the game from almost every
conceivable angle in terms of coaching and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So it's really great to have you here so we
can pick your brain a bit.
Speaker 6 (01:38):
Now, Thanks Miles, I appreciate you and and jack having
me on today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely So. We have so
many questions. We don't even know where to start. Which
way should we go? Jackson's to us since we are
the hosts.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, I mean you you recently told a story about
working with Jerry West that was pretty interesting to us.
Get to sort of just the level of skill, the
level of intensity that I feel like you only see
behind the scenes. Can you talk about just your experience
with with Jerry West just to give people a little
(02:13):
taste of like what kind of you've seen it all?
It's Blade Runner.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
There's so many stories. You know, working at Memphis, the
head coach was Mike Urtello, I was one of the
assistant coaches. Obviously, Jerry West was the general manager. And
you know, I like in the draft room, Uh, the
most competitive person I've ever been around. And you know
(02:40):
there was a game where Kenyan Martin was not blocked
out by one of our bigs and UH, and Jerry
West came in after the game.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
In the locker room, uh, and addressed the non blockout
in about is the most intense post game locker rooms
situation I've ever seen. Can't really use a lot of
the words that were used in that locker room that
night on not blocking out Kenyan Martin, But I mean
there were so many stories that you know. One of
(03:12):
them I was I was rebounding or working out whatever
term you want to use for Dante Jones and the
phone rang at the Scorge table. It was like a
four point thirty in the afternoon for seven o'clock seven
oh five tip off, and the phone kept ringing and
Scott Adebata was one of the assistants, and he said,
(03:34):
must go answer that phone. It's probably Jerry West. And
I had just joined the team, because remember that was
the year that for Tello, I took over you for
Huby Brown once the season was already underway and the
only coaching changes were for Tello and then myself. And
what had happened is Jerry was watching the workout that
I was putting Dante Jones through and didn't agree with
(03:57):
some of the skilled development stuff I was working on,
some of the areas that I thought Dante needed to
improve on Wow, Jerry just wanted him to work on
what he was going to do that night, and he
used to sit up in the owners suite and watch.
He wanted to know who the first players on the
floor were for the opposing team and our own home team,
(04:17):
and then he wanted to watch the players work out
to look at their intensity level, attention to detail, and
he wanted to watch the assistant coaches on both teams
to see who knew what they were doing. So that's
just one example of his attention to detail and then
his work ethic. Obviously for a guy of his stature,
(04:37):
I mean, he's the logo and he's there, first executive
in the building at four point thirty, already up in
his little perch waiting to see and look down and
evaluate everybody that was on the floor, way before even
the first bus came, because obviously in the NBA there's
a first bus, second bus. He wanted to see about
(04:58):
those guys that were you in a taxi cab with
maybe a lower level assistant coach at the time. So
super super detail and about as competitive as any human
being I've ever been around.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
How is his competitiveness And in the draft room, specifically
because I mean legendarily the guy who saw Kobe before
anybody else saw Kobe. But like, how is how is
that manifesting itself?
Speaker 6 (05:23):
Yeah, I mean I think all those Kobe stories I
wasn't around obviously, then I think they're all true.
Speaker 7 (05:29):
I know that.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
You know, the year that I was with him, he
went and saw Monte Ellis play before anyone really knew
who Monte Ellis was. And he came back and said
that he thought he saw a guy that could average
fifteen and twenty points a night, and he was right.
And you know, that was evaluating a high school player,
which is you know, super super hard to do. Yeah,
(05:53):
and we just were we drafted that year. It was
more in the mid first, so we were not going
to take Monte early. But I remember him keep saying, like, hey,
Monte Ellis is going to be better than any of
these guys that were going to draft in the mid first.
But he had his eye on uh Gerald Green uh
and Danny Granger, and both those guys went pretty close
(06:17):
to right before uh we picked, and he walked out
of the draft room. He was so frustrated that those
two guys had gone directly in front of our pick,
which ended up that year being Hakeem Warwick. But he
was so competitive and was so fired up to get
one of those two guys, and and and and he
(06:38):
was he was so right on with his evaluation of
players and how they would fit in with the current roster.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I get that.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I I sometimes get frustrated when I got my eye
on someone in a fantasy draft and taken, you know,
a couple of picks before me. So basically the same thing.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
We were on the clock, you know what I mean.
It's like, hey man, we're down to nine minutes.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, you got to make a pick, and it's he's
just leaving because he's so mad.
Speaker 6 (07:05):
Yeah, it was between an NC State guard that Denver
took and Warwick and and we're trying to make this decision.
And then Jerry came in about a minute and a
half before the draft and and went with the guy
that had a little bit more size.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
There you go. Was it hard to argue with him
when he when you're taking a call from him, I'm
assuming he's being very diplomatic about telling you what you
should be doing with Dante Jones, setting your workout and
just being like taking your feelings into consideration, But you
did you have a moment where you look down and
(07:40):
looked at the logo and you were like, the logo
is calling me.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, Well, the.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
First encounter with with with Jerry West was, uh, we
had made a trade in Golden State going into my
year two and we had a really good year one
with a lot of young pieces. But Gilbert Arena swalked
after year one and there was a shift in the
organization where they went with a lot of older vets,
(08:09):
probably knowing they were going to fire me, and they
were going to fire the general manager, Gary Saint Jean
and Chris Mullen was going to take over, right, Avery Johnson,
Popeye Jones, Nick Van Exel. We got a whole group
of older guys that were coming into our program. But
a trade was made and Jerry called me and said
(08:31):
you're gonna get fired time in the next twelve months
based on the way the roster was moving, and he
was one thousand percent right. That was literally the first
time that I ever talked to Jerry West.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Hey, man's up, you get fired, coach, and let me
start the clock real quick.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
There's the countdown.
Speaker 6 (08:51):
Yeah. She hit my phone and said, hey, Jerry West
is on. At that point, I was like thirty seven
year old coach and I'm like, hey, just directed to
Jarry Saint Geane like I don't want to, you know,
be involved with talking to another GM, and she said no,
he insists in talking to you. It's not necessarily about
a trade proposal. And I got on and literally he said,
(09:12):
you're not going to make it bad. Chemistry stuff going
on there with your with your with your additions and
so on and so forth, and he goes, you'll be
fired in twelve months. Click and wow, he gave me
three months more than what I actually got from the
from the moment of the phone.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
He was he just doing that to talk trash or
was he like, so keep us in mind when you're
looking for the next job, or what was his purpose
in telling you that you were about to get fired,
just like something he had figured out and wanted to
make sure you knew.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
I'm not really sure, you know, Jerry mysterious way. I don't.
I'm not really sure what was when he when he
made the hire of of coach for Tello. I was,
you know, I got a phone call right after he
and coach for Tello got you know, came to an agreement,
and you know, he was the one guy that I
brought on with Mike. So I don't know if he
(10:07):
had been watching studying or what, but but I you know,
was fortunate enough to then end up working for him obviously.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, like in terms of, like I identifying talent
and stuff. I know you've seen a lot of players
come through and had your own sort of opinions on
them and what their careers could be. I mean I've
heard that, like, you know, when you were in Orlando
and ninety eight, you you're like Dirk, Dirk, like, what
was sort of like, you know, give me a little
(10:36):
bit of texture in terms of like what your experience
has been, because I know you had also seen Vince
Carter or like Deer and Fox and seen something special
but sort of described like for you, like what those
experiences are like and seeing them and kind of immediately
sort of trying to get your gears going and you're like, Okay,
I see the weaknesses here, these are the strengths in
the past. Nope, this will be good in a couple
of years, or you know what, how does that? How
(10:56):
does that work in your mind, especially after you know,
being around so many really gift at people in the game.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean, you know, my role kind of in
Orlando was John Gabriel was a general manager and Chuck
Daly was the head coach, and it was kind of
a bridge between because I had come from the minor
leagues in the old CBA, so when we needed to,
you know, call a player up, I was heavily involved
in that stuff. But then Coach Daily had, you know,
kind of because I was so young, I wanted to
(11:23):
mentor me in evaluation and and and how to kind
of go maybe potentially in that player personnel development role.
And you know that particular draft, like John Gabriel sent
me to watch Vince Carter playing Daytona Beach because he
was from Daytona Beach and they played Bethune Cookman and
(11:44):
I came back, and you know, my eval was that,
you know, he was always grabbing a different body part.
He looked like he was always hurt. You know, the
particular game he got poked in the eye and went
in the locker room for a brief moment. And then
I look back all these years later and I'm like,
you know, how dumb was my worst email ever.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
You know, I don't know, he didn't have much like
his He didn't have a long career, did he he
was yeah, yeah, yeah, But that.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
That same draft for Shard Lewis had come out, and
part of my stuff was hanging out in the weight
room when the when the strength coach tested him, and
Mick Smith was our strength coach, and I just remember
how little Rashard Lewis could bench press, you know that
when I tried to report back to coach daily and
(12:45):
then John Gabriel, I just you know, continually talked about, hey,
I don't know how his body is going to withstand uh,
NBA Force and NBA and then obviously another guy. But
but I feel super lucky that I was part of
remembering my opinion and how that opinion was wrong because
I lacked experience, yeah, and I lacked the vision and
(13:08):
looking long term. So I think it's really helped me
at the collegiate level, looking back at some of the
stuff that that I said about players when they were
coming out of college.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah right, you weren't the only one, by the way,
who had that year's draft wrong. Michael Olowa Candy went
number one, like Bibby who was you know, all these
things made sense at the time. Rafe LaFrentz maybe didn't
make as much sense at the time.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And then Anton Jamison, his own teammate, went before Vince Carter.
I still remember that draft because my dad was an
assistant for the Boston Celtics, and it was like peak
me being like super bought into just whatever was going on,
like you know, needling him for any extra information that
he could get me. And he was like, there's this
(13:54):
guy Dirk Noowitsky that like if we can, I think
he might slide to us. They were at ten, and
like he was just like all week all we care about.
We're just like begging, like hoping that Navitzky slides to us,
and he went one before he went number nine and
there but Paul Pierce slid that year for no, for
(14:16):
no good reason, like nobody has a good explanation for
why he ended up at ten, and so they ended
up with a you know, generational player anyways, But yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
The Dirk story too, for that that I experienced, Jack
was we did not know who Dirk was. About thirty
days before the draft. We had not his name wasn't
on the draft board. Word started circulating about three weeks
before the draft, at least for our you know draft
(14:45):
war room in Orlando, and then we tried to go
over there. We tried to send different staff members over there,
and and to my you know memory, you know, don
Nelson just had him on lockdown. Like there was all
types of stories about how how Dirt couldn't play, and
I really truly think it was a lot of it
was fabricated by the Dallas Mavericks and and Don Nelson.
(15:09):
You know, one of the stories, you know, with the
Timberwolves was in the inaugural year, Don Nelson had called
my dad and told him how bad Tim Hardaway's knees were.
And we drafted poor Richardson and he turned into a
really good player for us. But obviously Tim Hardaway's a
Hall of Famer and Tim Hardaway don Nelson Nelson who
(15:33):
was telling my dad he had a bad meat. So
you know, part of the game, never hear any never
believe anything you hear in the draft room.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, amazing, all right, we should take let's take a
quick break. We'll come back. We'll get into uh, just
kind of the different eras the conversation that started with Aunt,
but that we like to talk about about whether basketball
is progressive, Are the guys getting better? Is the game
getting better?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Be right back.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
And we're back and coach. This is something I think
the first episode we talked about this idea that basketball
kind of has this specific shape to it at least.
This is my thinking that, like, you know, baseball, part
of the appeal is that it's been the same game
for a long enough time that like the stats are
comparable and you know, basketball really like you can just
(16:33):
look at games from ten years ago, fifteen years ago
and like see a pronounced difference in how the game
is played, and it seems like they're adding new skills,
Like you can see the players getting better and or
at least getting good in different ways. And so just
(16:54):
curious to hear your thoughts on that, Like is that
something that you kind of are keeping in mind or
that gets you excited about the game.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, I'm a
big baseball fan. I think, like you know, when you
look at baseball, I mean it's it's predominantly played in
the United States in places like Dominican Republic in Venezuela,
so it's kind of a smaller world participation right and
what I believe has changed the NBA is the influx
(17:25):
of the of the overseas coaching and players and the
fundamentally sound players that have come over from outside the
United States. The coaching right now, like if you're sitting
in the USC's office and you want to try to
come up with a new offensive scheme that's a little
bit outside the box, more than likely you're turning on
(17:46):
a FOBA game because there's body movement, there's player movement,
there's there's five to six seven passes being made. There's
three to four to five options instead of one or
two options. I think the creativity of of of FOEBA
basketball right now is as at a way way high level.
(18:08):
I don't think the coaching is any necessarily better in
the NBA than it than it has been in the past.
I look at QB Brown and and and and your
dad and his defensive reputation, and the Mike Bertello's and
the Chucked and the pat Rileys. I don't necessarily think
(18:28):
the coaching in the NBA is any better. I actually
think the coaching has dipped in the n b A
and and has slid a little bit compared to what
it was. You know, the guys like Cotton fitz Simmons,
those guys worked their way up and and were unbelievable
X and O coaches and guys like Doug mo way
(18:49):
ahead of their time. From a passing standpoint, George Carl,
but I do think the European coaching and European players
have changed the NBA and made the game better than
it ever has been. And you do you know, nobody
fifteen years ago would have thought player would have the
shots selection of Steph Curry. So because of player development,
(19:14):
because of you know, the work ethic, and guys solely
focusing on one sport. When I grew up, you know,
if you were a decent athlete, you played three sports, right,
That does not happen anymore. Players going into their eighth
grade a year pretty much have to commit to one sport.
(19:35):
And that's another reason why I think you see better
players than maybe what you've seen in the past.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
A lot of people I hear criticism a lot is
like that.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
A lot of the players coming from overseas, there's so
much emphasis on like teamwork and team play, where in
the US it's become a lot more individualized, and you know,
we're like in the business of really churning out stars
rather than getting kids more familiar with playing like a
team game. How do you look at that or or
how do you like sort of balance the two or
does do you see that as a deficit or more
(20:06):
just that the emphasis is different and they sort of
kind of blend together and they sort of compliment each
other once these players are together, No.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Miles, It's really interesting when I ask our players or recruits, Hey,
who is your favorite NBA team? Almost nine out of
ten guys say, oh, I don't have a team. I
have a player. I like whoever Durant's playing on, or
I like whatever team Kyrie's on. When I grew up,
(20:35):
I mean, you were either a Laker fan or a
Celtic fan.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I mean, for the most part, for sure, sure.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
And I never almost never hear a player say, hey,
I got this team. It's always hey, I like Miami
when Lebron was there. I like the Cavs when Lebron's there.
I like the Lakers now because Lebron that's a whole
different mentality, you know. Then when I grew up, for sure,
So I think that the star power has changed. I
(21:05):
think even when you look at women's basketball, like the
star power right now is really really prevalent in in
the in the women's game, in the w n b A,
and so I think it's just a different mentality of
maybe what younger people feel about the game and how
they're attached to two stars, you know. I mean, shoot,
(21:28):
when I grew up, if if if a guy played
on your favorite team and then he walked from for
free agency or got traded, you.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Didn't like to player at all, right, right, right, yeah, right, yeah,
it was wrong with you. You never forgave him, yeah,
of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, total yah.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
So one of the things that this is in the
news lately because somebody who didn't do the one sport
thing who actually was more of a football player, I
think through high school, Anthony Edwards and then like kind
of started coming around to basketball became one of the
best players in the in the world. Was asked about
(22:06):
players in the eighties and his quote starts out, I
didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't
speak on it, and that should have been the end
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, right, but confident guy, Yeah, he's like, what if
I must answer.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But then yeah, he kept on. They say it was
tougher back then than it is now, But I don't
think anybody had skill back then. Michael Jordan was the
only one that really had skill, you know what I mean.
So that's why when they saw Kobe they were like,
oh my gosh, now everybody has skill. It really feels
like my six year old trying to like having watched
(22:46):
three YouTube videos, like trying to come up with an
explanation of like thirty years the best. Well, so they
saw this guy and then this other guy who also
has a lot of highlights. Everyone was like, wow, he's.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Also then that guy dunked really good in that one clip.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh to Magic Johnson, who I'm just hearing about now
in this story but apparently also a good player now.
Magic in response, I never respond to a guy who's
never won a championship. He didn't win a college championship.
I don't even think he won a high school championship.
So he's gotten a little snippy, Yeah I do. I
(23:25):
don't know, like this seems like it takes it too
far in the other direction of Blake. It's nobody was
good back.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, But then then Kevin Garnett on his show of
Paul Pierce, Like Kevin Garnett was like, He's like, I
don't think these kids could have even lasted twenty years ago.
Felt like, again, I know the I'm like, I have
great love for the nineties, eighties and two thousand, so
I understand the pain to hear someone say Michael Jordan
was the only player with skill.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But that felt like a bit of like a overreaction
to that response.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
He kept saying like, you can't hit no triple step
back three like anymore now, And sure, that's one thing
we're talking about, But to say that they couldn't last,
I don't know. I think they would adapt if that's
how the game is being played. I guess two parts.
Do you just look at that as like sort of
like the hubris and confidence of a young player like
Anthony Edwards, like obviously he's starting off acknowledging his ignorance there,
(24:15):
but also as someone who has coached young young people
who are getting in the game, how much emphasis do
you put on people understanding the foundations of the game
and how the game has been played, or do you
kind of think it's not as relevant to how we're
playing now.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Well, to answer the second part, I think for sure
it's relevant. I think that young players should watch Magic
Johnson and see his vision, see his willingness to be
a passer, see his willingness to make teammates better. I mean,
he's probably one of the greatest teammates, maybe the greatest
teammate ever, because I mean you saw in that Philadelphia
(24:50):
series when Kareem couldn't play and Magic went and played
the five spot and was shooting hook shots. I mean,
how many guys could ever play the one in the
five in the same championship round. It just doesn't happen.
But he could do it. He's probably the only player
in the history of the game that could play the
one one night and then go play the five and
(25:11):
be equally effective. But I do think there's some brilliance
in Anthony Edwards too, Like he must watch TV in
an interview because you never know what he's gonna say. Sure, yeah,
And so there is beauty in the fact that he
can bring attention with some of his you know comments
(25:32):
and you know, cause discussion points. But look, when I
look back at game planning, you know, when you had
the game plan for Charles Barkley. That's about as heart
a guy as ever. The game plan. Yeah, mid post
draw fouls, six foot four, but built like a linebacker,
(25:53):
like could draw a rethrow attempt as well as anybody
in today's game. So I think that all the young
player should really sit down. There should almost be like
a history class, right for every college player where they
take a class, you know, once a week for an
hour where you go back and you look at, you know,
how did Carl Malone improve as a free throw shooter?
(26:16):
Like that thing is that story on his free throw
percentage increase is a phenomenal story. So I think that
you got to know the history of the game because
I think it's it's the only way to learn. It's
the only way to to try to get you know,
little nuggets that can help you improve as well.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I mean, part of I think aunts appeal also is
that he brings a sort of new to this earth
point of view, Like that one interview where you like
heard an Irish accent for the first time, it was like, oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Kind of cool. Yeah, like that kind of like that
so from Iron, Yeah, So that's.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
What that His description of NBA history seemed like to me.
Is like someone who just found out about that there
wasn't an NBA in the eighties and nineties and.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
It wasn't just Michael Jordan playing himself the whole time.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's like, huh.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Okay, I saw the documentary Space Jam and I was intrigued,
so I wanted to learn more after that. But yeah,
but I mean I think that's kind of like what
makes the comment obviously not like feel like too antagonistic
or anything, because he does start off, admittedly just saying like, hey,
I didn't watch, so I can't so what I'm about
to say, don't bother.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Taking it seriously because the world were text.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, but it's just funny even to do that, like
you say, and then still give the answer and then
everyone's like it comes out with their pitchforks. But like,
as you talk about history for you, we've been talking
about sort of some older players that you know, we
have like listeners that span many generations in terms of fandom.
A lot of younger fans, you know, some like to
(27:53):
get into highlights and look at old tape and see
how like the players of Yesterdyear played, But who are
like some people that you feel like you would you
would emphasize to your players, who are you kind of.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Like does everybody know about this player?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Does everybody know about this person's game or the evolution
they had with their game? Like who are some people
like that? Do you feel as somebody who's leading younger players?
Like who are those sort of important players that you'd
want them to be familiar with?
Speaker 6 (28:17):
I mean I think when I, you know, you look
at the point guard screening of John Stockton, like you know,
I think point guards need to look at a tape
of John Stockton and see how physical he was at
setting screens. Obviously we all know about the assist with Stockton,
you know. I think when you look at off guards,
you could think about like Rip Hamilton running off of
(28:39):
screens and the pace that he used to come off
as screens. I think, you know, when you when you
think about small forwards like Dominic Wilkins, everybody talks about
the human highlight reel, but in reality, guys like Dominic Wilkins,
Bernard King, those guys were great small forward rebounders. You know, Yeah,
(29:00):
you could rebound your position and then you had a
small forward like those guys that could arrange rebound rebound
outside their area. So I think there's a you know,
Carl Malone's pick and roll game, understanding when to roll,
understanding when to pop, understanding how to draw fouls at
that power forward spot. And then certainly, you know, if
you're a big guy, you know, if you watch Bill
(29:22):
Walton's passing and his vision and his full court passing,
or Wes Unsell and his outlet passing, or even his
inbound passes after a made basket, and then you know,
I'm surprised that more guys that are six ten, six
eleven seven foot have not tried to, you know, emulate
Kareem Abdul Jabbar with this hookshot. So I think there's
(29:42):
a lot of guys that's just off the top of
my head. If you're a if you're a player that's
being moved to the point guard position, you have size,
certainly you should watch the way that Magic Johnson would
get his team into offense where he might have to
play with his back to his rim because of his size,
but he could look over his shoulder and find people.
I know that you know, we did that with Cody
(30:03):
Martin a little bit where where where we've tried to
convert him from a four to a point guard and
Magic Johnson clips were something that we felt were important.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Oh that's cool, all right, coach, let's take one more break.
We'll come back, and you are in for the rapid
fire round of questions, the fastest question answer segment in
the history of this podcast. So we'll take a quick break.
We'll be right back, getting your triple threat position, because
it's gonna be yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Deny, deny, den't I deny, and we're back.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We're back.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
Us.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
You know they're gonna say, I'm really enjoying this because
you're the head coach of SC men's basketball. But really,
the hot seat is for everyone. It doesn't discriminate, and
it's hot for everybody. This is the fastest question answer
segment off podcasting history, at least on this podcast history.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Where we're gonna ask you a question. Just just take
us quick second to think about it. Just chest pass
it right back, fire right back.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Don't give too long of an answer, because we want
to keep our title of the fastest question and answer
segment off podcasting history. And if you take too long,
we will be rude to you. And I just want
to warn you that that that's just that's the caveat
I want to enter with. So there's no hurt feelings
or surprises because we take our superlative title very seriously.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That we gave ourselves.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
That we gave ourselves. Obviously there's an asterisk by that,
but don't read the fine print.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Uh, Jackie ready? Yeah, coach mus you ready?
Speaker 6 (31:42):
Yep? Let's do it, all right, ran start the clock.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
This is the fastest segment of all time. Should should we?
Who's going to go first? You should? I could go first?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I think first one? All right, go Chris Thomas h
Are you familiar with the concept of nominative determinism, where
a person's name determines what they do for a living,
Examples being Hussein Bolt becoming a sprinter. Doug Bowser is
the name of the person who is the head of
Nintendo America, or somebody who works in a gym and
(32:19):
in sports with the last name muscleman. Has that ever
come up?
Speaker 6 (32:23):
That has never come up?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Okay, No, we just made history.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Been your life?
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Yeah, that's history?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
All right? Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I mean you're kind of shredded and you've got dumbbells
on your shirt right there?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah. In the gym.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I saw you in Nevada. I saw that clip
of you on a on a treadmill highlighting while running.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I was like this, Yeah, how do you do that?
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Yeah? I still do it. I go six miles every
day with the highlighter and print articles before I leave
for work, and then highlight them the next morning, and
then the staff all gets the cliff notes of leadership articles,
coaching articles. I do it every day.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh amazing.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I was gonna say, you're hertridges running through a moment. Yeah,
you're regular at Staples, aren't you.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Coach bus is back just load up his toner.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
The Atlanta Hawks stan cast and actually called me into
the office and told me stop printing and if I
printed a article that was in color, I had to
use black and white. That was Lanta Hawk's president at
the time.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Wow wow, wow wow.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Now the president of the Dodgers. Uh yeah, what a guy. Okay,
next question. This is something we've been talking. We've been
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Players of yesteryear.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
But I'm just curious, even though we wrapped up our
nineties nostalgia series, we want to play a game of
would he be even better now in this era? And
I'll give you three players, and you kind of give
me your thoughts if, if if they ended up in
our current era.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Amari Stodemeyer, Andre Kirolinko and lamar Odom.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
How do you see what you look at those two players,
who do you feel would really thrive in our current era?
Speaker 6 (34:05):
Lamar odhim, I think he was one of the first
positionless players, a guy that could play three, four to
two if need be, could play a little bit of
point forward. So I would say, Odim, that's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Okay, Wow, I agreement that was the right answer. That
was the right answer.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
That was but I you didn't need to make fun
of us for how easy it was. All Right, that's
the easiest question I've ever been asked. That's actually I
answered that with my eyes closed. Do you is there
a player other than those three that sticks in your mind?
Like you mentioned Barkley being really hard to game plan four,
But is there a player that you're like, God, if
(34:43):
he had come along twenty years later, he would have
been incredible.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Doctor J. Yeah, he was just like he could play
in any era. And I think about social media now
and how every highlight gets exemplified and put out. The
Doctor J would make a lot of money. When you
think about his personality, when you think about how artistic
(35:08):
his game was.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
That his name was doctor j It's pretty cool. The
dopest name ever.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I remember as a kid, I thought he was an
actual doctor, like when I first heard of him, and well,
but I was like, but don't you go to college
for like four years and then you go to the NBA.
But then he became a doctor And my dad was
like he had just never told me. He's like, yeah,
but he's a doctor.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
H And I'm impressive.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I embarrassed myself in fifth grade. Pretty bad, coach Musk.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
From your perspective, you know, looking at this upcoming NBA season,
who do you see as kind of like a dark
horse team, like someone we're not talking about, but as
you've seen some bit of progression, you feel like, Okay,
this is.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
A team that I think, you know is going to
make some noise.
Speaker 6 (35:53):
You know, we're so I'm so immersed in the in
the college game. I mean I do like so, you know,
like Timberwolves are, in my mind, are a team that
if they remain healthy, if their coach can remain healthy.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
As well, Uh, I get taken out.
Speaker 6 (36:08):
I like what Minnesota has, you know, with the size
and and and a superstar player and a team that
continues or organization that continues uh to get better and better.
And and you know for me, I you know, I
like watching the Utah Jazz play just uh from a
studying a younger roster with a younger coach that runs
(36:29):
really really good stuff. So that's a team that I
like to watch. And then Oklahoma City is another team
that that I love to watch, another really good young
coach with some really great young pieces. Actually have two
of our Arkansas guys. So you know, I'm a big
Thunder fan. And and uh and I think I think
the Thunder and t Wolves both can make noise this year.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Wow, word for word again, you got it exactly right.
The answer is looking at our note, I think he
might be copying off of me, off my answer sheet.
We'll coach Muscleman. What a pleasure having you on Miles
and Jack got mad Booth. Yes, uh, congratulations and looking
forward to seeing what the what the Trojans do this
(37:13):
year here in southern California. Where can people find you?
Follow you? You know all of that stuff?
Speaker 6 (37:22):
Yeah on Twitter, it's just DP Muscleman and we're pretty
active on social media. I know it's a little bit
outside of the way I was raised with, you know,
coming much like you did, Jack, when you know, your
dad was pretty old school, so was my dad, but
you got to change with the times, and so I'm
(37:42):
pretty active on social media, at least I try to
be for recruiting. But hey, it's been great joining you guys.
I appreciate it. Jack, Miles, thanks so much for.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Having me on Oh yeah, thanks man.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
All right, well, you can follow us at the hashtag
mad boost He's beat A S t i e Y
for show links and updates, and you can join the
conversation on our discord server, and you can follow me
on Twitter at Miles of Great.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I'm at Jack Underscore O'Brien.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And that was another splendid edition of Miles and Jack
dot Mad Boosties with Coach where Musselman thank you so
much for joining us again and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Bye bye,
The Daily Zeitgeist News
Hosts And Creators
Jack O'Brien
Miles Gray
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