Modern Knight = Scared Man? The Power of Chocolate 11.23.22

In episode 1379, Miles and guest co-host Joelle Monique are joined by award-winning author and host of OBSESSIONS: Wild Chocolate, Rowan Jacobsen, to discuss… Y’all OK on the Right? Died Suddenly: The Viral Anti-Vax Movie Is Hilariously Easy To Debunk, Macho Camps For Sad Rich Men Are … Also Sad,  A Whole Lotta Food Talk and more!

1. Died Suddenly: The Viral Anti-Vax Movie Is Hilariously Easy To Debunk
2. 'I could have died': Florida Gators star Keyontae Johnson opens up about on-court collapse
3. ‘Verified’ anti-vax accounts proliferate as Twitter struggles to police content
4. Macho Camps For Sad Rich Men Are … Also Sad
5. Reddit Thread: Buried Alive = Real Man?
6. This boot camp for men claims it’ll revive your ‘primal nature’

LISTEN: Cocoon by 070 Shake

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to sixty four,
episode three of the dailies like Guys Well One More
Day till Turkey Day. It's a production of I Heart Radio.
This is the podcast where we take a deep dive
into America's shared consciousness. It's Wednesday, November twenty three. I mean,
there's so much going on this week, but it is

(00:22):
National Espresso Day, National et Cranberry Day, National Cash You Day,
National Jukebox Day, and National Taie one on day. I'm
Miles Gray a k A Miles of Gravy. I forget.
I think it's Paul Garavent on Twitter who gave me
that a k A. Because yeah, it's true. It's it's
We're we got we gotta have the Thanksgiving tood themed names.
And I am thrilled to be joined by my guest

(00:42):
co host again. I don't know how many, how long
of an intro I'm gonna do here, but her takes
are sound, her movie suggestions unflappable. Okay, is she does?
She have one of the kindest spirits and voices you've
ever experienced. Yeah? Probably is. She also a fantastic producer, writer,
and all these other things. Yes, I can name them all,
but I'd rather just call her Joel Monique him Miles

(01:07):
than such a delicious intro. So thice to you. Good
to see you, Good to see you. Are you excited
for her tomorrow? Yeah? I've had Thanksgiving with the same
college friends for the past six years. We had spreadsheets
and oven schedules. It's a very tenuous and amazing celebration

(01:29):
because they, you know, they're the friends that like to
experiment and spend too much money on food, so you
can go into their house. Yeah, so it's gonna be good.
I'm excited. Well, look, let's get into our guest. Our
guest is a James Beard Award winning author. Okay, this
man knows food. He's written literal books on apples. I

(01:50):
can't believe Jack is not here. It's called Tasting the
Essential Oyster. Okay, Shadows on the Golf, and also his
latest podcast, Obsessions While Chocolate. You know on my heart.
I'll check it out, please help me. Welcome to the microphone,
Mr rowand Jacobs said, what's up? Happy Cranberry Day? I

(02:11):
didn't even know. Yes, yes, go to your favorite bog
and you know, pull up a fresh one. I actually do.
I have a bog right up the road from me
with cranberries in it. I'm gonna have to go check
them out and see if they're there. Really magical world
do you live in You live in Massachusetts or something? Well, Vermont, Yeah,
we have a few. We don't have many in Massachusetts,

(02:32):
but you know, if you know where to luck, they're here.
And yeah, yeah, yeah, and I've I've always been. I'd
never knew how cranberries were grown until like an Ocean
spray commercial from the late nineties where like a guy
was in like the overalls, like in a pit, and
I was like, what the fun is going on? And
have you ever seen those crazy photos of what it
looks like when they get harvested, like from above? You know,

(02:53):
they float water to like the cranberds up and you
know they're bright red. So then from above it's just
like these huge chunks of color like red and then
the blue water and it looks like a surreal painting
or something. I'm still don't know how do you grow
a cranberry? What's the point? What do you need the
bob for? They like it wet, I guess, so you know,

(03:15):
they're like these little short plants, you know, and they
have like the little red berries, but they're only like
a foot high so and they grow in like standing water.
Got it, got it, cut it. I don't know. I'm
like not a cranberry expert, admit, but I think to
harvest him, you go in and you just like beat
the bushes to knock all the berries off into the water.
And then then yeah, basically the water you corral them

(03:37):
into like big circles of red that are floating on
the water. And then farming is such a wild thing
because I always picture, like in movies, it's like and
then we gently like plucked this corn from the stock
and like shucked it like gentle farmwork hands, and there's
like golden light everywhere. But then, like if you've ever
seen an olive tree harvest, they just throw nets everywhere
and starts smacking the trees. They're like get out of

(03:58):
their olives. It's it's I feel like I can have fun,
far more fun than movies have made it seem. Right. Yeah, yeah,
there's a lot of smacking involved with farming. It turns out. Yeah,
I want to stop grapes, you know, yeah exactly, I know,
if you stomped a few grapes in your day, rown
we'll have to ask you about them later. It's fun. Yeah,
I highly recommend it. Well, let's give people a quick
preview of what we're gonna be talking about today. Just

(04:21):
checking in over there with some presidential candidate activity, specifically
Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of State, who has identified the
biggest threat to the United States and I don't quite
agree what that is. Then we're gonna talk about, you know,
because Twitter is just verifying whoever these days, this like,
I don't know if you saw this phrase died suddenly

(04:42):
was trending on Twitter like over the last few days.
It's a fucking dumb It's a it's a quote unquote
documentary about the COVID vaccine, but it's it's so poorly
made and like researched it. I don't even know why
it's up there, Oh, because there's no moderation on Twitter.
So we'll talk about that and the just all kinds

(05:04):
of interesting things that are discussed there. We'll talk about
macho camps for sad rich guys, to the Modern Day
Night Project. I don't know if you saw this, but
this is like a thing where guys can get screamed
at by more buff dudes and then feel like men
after have they not heard of the Navy seals? Well,
well you have, Well, dude, my fucking guy, dude, donkey,

(05:26):
he used to be a seal, so he trains us.
So it's all good. So we'll take a deep dive
into like this whole entire industry and it's just like
a terrible grift for you know, people with a very
fragile sense of self, and talk a little bit about
food since we have rowing here and I have a
lot of questions. It's the real bleak picture of America

(05:46):
and then food, so I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
or food then bleak picture of America. Look, either one
we're gonna get. We're getting all of our we're eating today.
But first Rowan got to ask you, our guests, what
is some thing from your search history that is reveal
something about who you are, what you're currently searching. I
guess you know. I actually look back, I was like,

(06:07):
what who am I? What kind of tel from my start?
And what quickly was revealed to me is that I
have been checking the snow report a whole I live
in Vermont, So I've been checking the snow report a
lot the past few days because there's a great cross
country ski place like half an hour away from me,
and like wind just hit Vermont hard out of nowhere,

(06:28):
like a week ago, Like I got back from a
trip and there was snow on the ground. I was like,
I'm not ready. But then after like you know, a
short batch of depression, I was like, but snow. So
then I started checking ski Report and uh, yeah, with
this one ski place just opened. So that's my corner salvation.
How's Stow looking? And they're they're open for sure, down

(06:50):
like the down hell places like stuff. They're they're going.
Gets to know that I'm saying the one ski place
I know him from. You got in that area, so
like I went there once and I was like, yeah,
don't know about Stove, but wait, so did you grow
up in New England? Yeah I did. Wow. Okay, So
that's very like the way you just talk about It's like, yeah,
the winner comes. I'm from the San Fernando Valley in

(07:11):
l A, where we have no seasons. So whenever I
hear like or even you Joel or like Justin talked
about Chicago and like winter I'm like, wow, your coat,
they don't get hot right when you're walking around, you
don't get hot in your jacket. You gotta take it
off in the middle street. Cool. Cool, cool. So I'm
always I love I love hearing people be like, for actual,

(07:32):
twenty degrees can be like a curry Santa blessing, you know,
because it's twenty degrees is like the cold you can
stand like it's it's definitely cold, it's also cool. I
want to die, you know, but anything below that suddenly
you're like, it's okay if my body shuts down. We
shouldn't have to be faced with this level of brisk
air hitting my skin. Twenty degrees. Three degrees sounds like

(07:54):
certain death for me. But what ru where are you at?
What's what's your temperature scale? Like as a as ver monter, Yeah,
is kind of like that magic tap where like if
you're out doing stuff in it, exercising, you're pretty warm
and you're like, oh, it's not so bad once it
gets down to the teens. Like even if you're you know,
working pretty hard, it's pretty freaking cold. Right if you

(08:17):
haven't done a winter before, remember to pop out your
piercings before you go into the cold. My roommates had
learned that the hard way, also from California. Yes, you're
the metal will freeze. Oh wow, yeah dude, we're just
so laid back in California. Man, Like, what are you
talking about? They're like two hoodies is like a coat? Right? No, yo,

(08:37):
I even know that. No, two hoodies is not. But yeah,
and don't lick a metal ladder. I did that once
when I was a kid. Look, that's California math for you, Rowan.
What is something you think is overrated? All right? So
I'm gonna get myself into trouble with this one, all right,
go ahead. I've started to think, you know you're not like, so,
I'm a I'm a professional food writer, right, I do

(08:59):
a lot of taste like closely, like thinking about, oh
does this go with this? And so on. I'm starting
to think red wine is overrated and that's well, yeah, exactly,
go on tell me why. I mean, Like, admittedly, Rowan,
I the I know, I know, I know about wine,
but I'm not like my palette. Isn't that discerning? Like
I know different varietals, but I'm not out here. Look,

(09:21):
most of the time I'm like is it screw top
or cork ye, but what what do you what? Tell me,
like walk me through so I can I can say
something cool at Thanksgiving be like, oh, y'all drink a
red wine. Yeah, I go for it, and I think
you should. So yeah, I'm like red wines kind of
considered like the ultimate drink, right, It's really concentrated, intense flavor,

(09:42):
a lot going on, and you know, white wines kind
of kind of considered, like you know, for light weight.
It's a little bit oh like for like if you
funk with wine, like you want the reds because like
there's so much you know, white's fine, but then you know,
real flavor, you're going for red. And like the really
really really expensive bottles are all red, like the super
you know, like the two thousand dollar bottles are all red.

(10:03):
Oh yeah, that's true. You never see someone like and
here's my six thousand dollar rose exactly. Yeah, like Rose
twenty blucks. It's mixed out right, So red wines supposed
to be super great. But like you know, like I do,
I spell all the time, like tasting stuff, like drinking
different things with different foods, and I'm just starting to think, like, man,
this red wine is kind of like overdone. It's like

(10:26):
somebody's should have taken the skins out before it got
so red. That feeling a flaw And like you know,
beer and white wine and other things I think go
better with food. But that's a very controversial thing to say. Yeah,
I meant foodie world. Yeah, I'm sure, because everyone's like,
you gotta like red meat, you've gotta have red wine exactly,
and I'm always like, all right, and I tried to

(10:48):
do that where people like, no, it really enhances the flavor.
But I'm the kind of person who does not drink
liquids when they eat, like I don't. I'm like an
end of the deal drinker, like nothing like not even wanted,
don't sip, I don't wash it down. I'm like, I'm
focused on the meal. That's just how That's how I've
gotten down since the beginning of times. But so like
when people always be like you gotta try that with this,

(11:09):
I'm always like, okay, I don't like and then after
like have this red one, I'm like, okay, yeah, I
mean it's not like doesn't put a terrible taste in
my mouth, But that's also not like necessarily the culinary
experience I see all the time. Yeah, I'm a rose girl,
and if they offered a six dollar bottle of rose,
I would be the kind of person to buy it
and be like, what's happening? Is it sparkling? Golden it?

(11:32):
I wonder if that's why, like everybody drinks natural wines
and ship now, Like I feel like that's become like
a real popular thing now less so than like, you know,
drinking a full bodied kianti or something. Is everyone's like
a skin contact natural wines, that's what I always see. Yeah,
for sure, for sure, that's that's happening. And it's sort
of it's starting to like undercut this whole, like this

(11:53):
myth that red wine the good wind ones? Are these
super concentrated ones? Yeah good, I'm glad. I'm I'm glad
you said that wrong, because whenever I taste those what
then it's hard for me to be like, oh my goodness,
you're right? Is this were these like Spanish oak catsis
like I can't there's no way I could do that.

(12:14):
Keep the Spanish out, go away, like just give me
a beer. Yeah. At that point, I'm like, thank you
so much, But I don't know if I can pretend
along with everyone like this, Um, what is something you
think is underrated? Rowing one thing I've been noticing, And
tell me, tell me if you if you all are
having this experience or not, because I'm like, I live
in the country, so I'm not in like a city
all the time. But I've noticed that, you know, after COVID,

(12:36):
you weren't having a lot of like just like minor
interactions with people, that the stuff that you normally do
every day, and then you had masks on. And now
I've just been noticing how like if I'm just like
in the city for a day or in town and
no one's got massive everyone's back to sort of like
those normal, stupid, meaningless interactions, you know, just like you're

(12:56):
chatting with your but the barista and the person cutting
your hair and the person post office. And I've noticed, like,
at the end of the day, I'm like in a
really good mood because of those stupid little interactions that
we didn't have for like two or three years, you know. Sure,
So I'm starting to think that's underrated, that that stuff
that doesn't really mean anything, but it just sort of

(13:18):
like human yeah, human connection, you know, I think, yeah,
that's like powerful, even if even in a like less
I guess monumental way, you know, it's like nice to
even like when I go and like go to my
coffee shop, like I'm now I chat everybody up because
like you see, you see people there all the time,
and now I just say, oh, hey, like not even

(13:39):
to be like it, what's going on with you? Like
I don't necessarily put on the biggest conversation, but I
am much more like, hey, alright, I'm acknowledging you what's
going on for a little person out there? Yeah, I'm shure.
It's small talk. I really hate it, but I am
do you find myself being like you good? Yea, how
do you need Okay? It's like on set or something
that's talking to the grip the other day, I like, hi, dude,
he's like, I'm always and I'm like that's great. And

(14:01):
then we just sat in zilence for twenty minutes. Everybody
else eight. It's really not It was like Israel peaceful
and nice and I appreciate it. That's that very small moment,
is it that? Like roll? What is it about those
pleasant trees that you think like that that are so fulfilling?
For you? Is it just is it? Is it purely
because you're kind of like, oh, that's right, Like I

(14:21):
I've kind of in the heights of the pandemic when
people were you know, locked up and stuff like that,
like we shifted gears and maybe dulled that need to
like sort of interact with people and now that's coming
back or what what for you? What do you feel
is like the thing that's given it life for you? Yeah,
I think you hit it. I think it's just those
little reminders of human connection that you know, we are,

(14:42):
like we're a super social species and we like just
those little like minor you know, shading the ship in
ways that don't matter. It just helps us remember that
we're part of a group and that we like, we
like have like things in common, even though we often
focus on the twentieth thing, you know, right right right? Yeah,

(15:03):
for sure, man, I would say that. You know, there's
so many studies that come out that always reinforced this
of like just like saying hello to a friend that
you haven't talked to ends up like boosting like everyone
involves like well being after a call like that. I
just randomly like it up my friend yesterday because I
was gonna text, and I was like, you know, I'm
a call just to challenge with somebody. Just call somebody

(15:25):
you meant to text, and you'll you'll be surprised. I
thought I was just gonna check in for like ten minutes.
We talked for an hour. Yeah. It's always nice to,
you know, have those moments because you forget. It's really
easy to forget because we connect to each other in
so many like nonverbal ways with technology and ship. You
gotta remember the good old days, like when we're in
middle school talking on a landline. Oh yeah, parents, when

(15:51):
they're like, you need to get off this phone. Okay, okay,
just five more minutes. Didn't you just see them at school?
You will see them tomorrow? Yes, I know. Okay, So
both y'all paying the phone bill, but we got mom.
We got vantage, I thought, because it's vantage, we don't
pay because it's hooked up to the internet. Oh night,
get you call her back later. Don't worry about it. Yeah.

(16:13):
You know, that's another thing that's underrated as landlines. I
think landlines are underrated, you know now that just don't
have them anymore. I mean that's like a new genre
of content on TikTok, which is like young gen Ze
kids being like, what in the funk is this thing?
Watching them try to dial is so adorable. They're like,
what don't you have the mitary phone? Did she have

(16:33):
me do? Like the two black girls like at their
house and the mom was just taping them. She's like,
I can't believe they are getting the biggest kick. You're like, mom,
what's this sound? She's like the dial tone? She was like, wait,
doesn't actually call, She's like on my cell phone. She's
like when it was ringing, her face lit up, like
the ancient thing made my phone buzz. How yeah? Do

(16:58):
you have a landline? Run? Not anymore? We got rid
of it. But here's like, so this I'm going to
seem like a dinosaur you guys if I admit this.
But when I was a kid, this is in Vermont
for mom was all behind. We had not just the landline,
but a party line. You know what a party line is? No,
so like where you could call and like a bunch
of people, like like anyone could talk on it. Basically
anyone on our road. It was all one line, right,

(17:21):
so every it would everybody when there was a phone call,
it would ring for everybody, and whoever would pick up,
and then you all have to figure out who was
actually for, who was actually kind, and then everyone else
was supposed to hang up, but you couldn't always tell
like that, My god, wow, that sounds better than Twitter. Imagine. Yeah,
like hoping MS party d M s right exactly, It's

(17:43):
basically like a party. It was a party DM back
of its day. Hell, when I think back that, I'm like,
I cannot believe that existed, you know, right, I mean, yeah,
becauld you. Yeah. I feel like in our day and age,
like if people had the ability every like just people
would just be like no one would be hanging up
and then like weaponizing that information against like the person.
And some of that happened back then too, to be honest, Yeah,

(18:06):
sure right, it was always tempting to not hang on.
You know. Wait, so if someone and now okay, so
if someone called, let's presume it was the phone call
was for your house but only rang like twice and
maybe you forgot and like you didn't and you weren't
there to pick it up, and everyone's like, I don't
know who you're calling for. They're like, well that's not me.
But you're not there, we just be like called back
and then we'll all know to not pick up. Okay.

(18:27):
So yeah, so everyone you just had to work it out,
and the reality was that people just didn't make that
any phone calls back then, right right, I'm just still
I know Joel, you're thinking the same thing. I like,
how fucking messy would things get? It would be too messy? Well,
actually I had thought so like if that existed today,
I don't know my neighbors that well, you know what

(18:48):
I mean, I'd be like who they'd be like, you know,
the address right next to years would be like literally
never met him, Like sorry, call again. And then my
other thought was like, yeah, it would be messy. But
imagine I was thinking about like my high school self.
You know, he was like a small click of like
girl crew. That would have been amazing. We could all

(19:09):
just pick just somebody calls his crisis. We're all like,
what how can we help? We're all here, I mean,
or just knowing, Like when I pick up the phone,
my friends are always talking, most likely just I know
y'all were there, Hey, what's going on? Okay, So this
is one I'm gonna just listen just to be comforted
by the voices. I don't have anything to say. Just yeah,
I'm here, y'all go ahead, just then, magical. All right,

(19:33):
let's take a quick break and we'll be right back
to talk about Mike pom Pale right after this, and
we're back, and another day, another wildly messed up thing

(19:54):
being uttered by someone in the Republican Party. Today's presenter
of terrible ideas is former a Secretary of State and
bake time fan of the End Times, Mike Pompeo. Uh,
he's kept pretty he's been pretty coy about, you know,
whether or not he's running, more in the sense that
he has an outright saying it. But it keeps me like,
I don't know, but I you know, I have a

(20:16):
pack set up and I'm doing a lot of press,
which would indicate that I am ramping up for a
presidential run. And you know, we saw, like many other
people do this. Mike Pence had his like terrible, awful,
awkward town hall last week on CNN, where like Jake
Tapper tried to have like an Ian La van Zant
style intervention for him, It's like you can still be

(20:37):
mad at Donald Trump. Mike Pence, Yeah, I would be too.
You don't like what is are you okay? And then
we've seen Rhonda Santis like he's like winking at the
camera like Jim from the Office when he's asked about
like whether or not he's gonna and he's like, I
don't know, folks. I'm just waiting for Trump to implode
and then I will come, you know, come to life.

(20:57):
But we'll see what happens with that man. But the
man who was Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, he this
is a guy who was looking at all the threats
that the country faces from, you know, a geopolitical perspective.
He has identified the greatest threat to our country in
a recent interview, and I'm just gonna let you know
who that is, he said. I get asked, who's the
most dangerous person in the world. Is it Kirman Chim

(21:19):
or is it Chairman Cairman? Him? Switch those up? Is
it chairman Kim? Is it ping? The most dangerous person
in the world is Randy Wine Garden now Randy White
Garden is She is the head of the Teachers Union.
He identified her as the most dangerous person. He said,
it's not a close call. If yes, who's the most

(21:40):
likely to take this Republic down? It would be the
teachers unions and the filth that they're teaching our kids
and the fact that they don't know math and reading
or writing. Oh interesting, sir, he said, these are things
that candidates should speak about, speak to in a way
that says, here's the problem, here's a proposal for how
to solve it, and if given the opportunity, these are
the things I will go work on and try and

(22:02):
deliver that outcome that fixes that problem. I think it
is interesting in this instance, see like the Republicans realize that, like,
actually connecting outcomes to policy ideas is the thing that
people people seeking office should do, although sadly these policies
and ideas are are a little off. Like the biggest
thing that he's saying is that, like, if they're teaching
like stuff like the sixteen nineteen project and that this

(22:24):
country was founded on a racist idea quote. If those
are the things people are entered the seventh grade deeply
embedded in their understanding of America, it's difficult to understand
how J. Jympings claimed that America is in decline won't
prove true. Oh so many thoughts so many that's a
that's a big that's a big swing. And I think
again they're trying to find a way. I think for

(22:46):
like Republicans running in the primary for office, they're trying
to find a thing that's like, well, overt racism didn't
do well, or like misogyny and the denial of like
body autonomy. What if we like kind of end around
by like shaking the education tree and kind of using
that as like the venue to begin to say like

(23:08):
these like liberals are going to groom your kids in
schools and also learn about stuff. So first, it's super
funny to hear people be like, yes, slavery was here,
but was it racist? Question mark right? Not an ideal?
We were found out? Is literally what the hell happened?
It's just very bizarre. But then two coming after teachers,

(23:30):
it feels like the most witch hunting thing the Republicans
have done in a hot minute. It's like there they'll
poison your children. Be terrified, Like, I don't their teachers,
they're just like have you met one? They literally just
want to help your kid be educated, get through their day.
Most of them are spending huge chunks of their paycheck
on stalking their class with like supplies and stuff like

(23:53):
they you couldn't go after like want. I know, it's
better to go after people without means because you know,
if you have your legal day in court, you can
just outpay them and outpace them in a court trial.
But I also just think like for the most part,
teachers have community on their side because I'm like, you know,
local police, they're active members of their community. So this

(24:15):
is a very foolish like angle to try to take.
I don't I know, like anti elitism is like as
far as like you know how your education is very popular,
but not the sixth grade teachers. I feel like they're
missing They're they're going to miss their audience on this.
I think they've found a lot of success. They're like
you've seen these school board meetings, Like a lot of
people are finding that that is a place where they

(24:36):
can try and you know, act out this kind of
change quote that they're looking for. But yeah, it is,
I think it is. It does seem like a very
I mean again, you're talking about people who are dedicating
their lives to educating your kids, and I think this
kind of I think this is also going part and
parcel with the general like theme of panic around the

(24:57):
youth vote in the mid terms also, and I think
they're starting to be like, oh, these younger kids are
like what, what the heck are they learning that? They're like,
they're they're voting for a body autonomy and access to healthcare. Yeah.
Those damn kids. I love the toughest of them. They're
out here doing it. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I

(25:18):
just I don't think that they're going to be able
to sustain this type of attack because even the school
boards were mostly about like the library and books they
have access to, and not individual teachers. You might have,
like on a local level, like small gripes with the
specific teacher, maybe someone's too outspoken or whatever. We've certainly
seen that happen around the country where like oh the

(25:40):
teacher is out and people don't like that, or you know,
they put up gay pride stuff in the lobby. Horrifying.
They suggested the students read Beloved by Tony Morrison, like huh,
it will scar your children, but it's a scarring they need, okay, appropriate,
What's what's kind of the tone and in Vermont Rowan

(26:01):
like as it like relates to like schooling and and
things like that, because I know, I mean, I feel
like like every state is experiencing some form of like
chaos around education. Yeah, for sure, it's you know, it's
quieter here because just because the towns are so small, right,
you know, typical town would be like a thousand of people,
so you might only have like eight kids in the school,

(26:24):
So like everyone kind of knows each other and right
that that it seems like that often that kind of
like takes the edge off. Like you know, Twitter, you
get people get into huge fights because they can't see
each other, they don't know each other, and they're pretty
sure they're never going to run into each other, Like
in Vermont, you're pretty sure you're gonna run into everybody
and right, so so it kind of keeps it a

(26:44):
little more civil, h Yeah, or yeah, or you never
know when you might pick up the party line and
here they might be on the other end of the party. Yeah, exactly.
There's there's a lot keeping these things together. But yeah, again,
it's just a lot of a lot of noise coming
out I think as a party tries to figure out,
like just combing through the ashes of their midterm platform,
like okay, so none of that was that great. They

(27:06):
don't like election denihiism and some of these other things. Yeah,
hitting hitting on the teachers, it's not gonna work much
better for them. I feel like somehow, you know, Yeah,
and it's it's really it's kind of alarming because even
like in the you know, in the light of the
that you know, hate attack in Colorado over the weekend,
you're still seeing conservatives like just continue to double down

(27:27):
on this like rhetoric of like, and there are these
people who are trying to harm your kids, and that
you know half the time that they're they're they're wanting
to sort of guide that road into and it's the
teachers and not the countless people like clergy that we
read about every week and some like new investigation, but
maybe that it's only happened in school. I think they'll

(27:47):
keep doubling down on it until it hurts them in
the primaries. And that's what I'm gonna be curious to
see if yeah, because that's when people like yeah started shifting.
When he's like, Okay, so those people got it, Okay,
I'll take a little bit of that idea, but I
won't have to do it later but I will say
I will collect the right opinions, Thank you so much. Yeah,

(28:07):
well we shall see. Speaking of just terrible ideas, you know,
Twitter has been you're up, You're down, You're up, you're
down looking at this thing. Uh. The last thing we
heard is like Ellen was saying the verified thing where
I'm gonna, I gotta, I gotta figure this out. It's like,
turns out too many people want to impersonate brands and
give out free insulin or talk about you know, military

(28:31):
government overthrows by fruit companies. But I think there's this
the other thing about like around moderation is a huge
issue that isn't really talked about as much. I think
as everyone is either just like dunking on elon reply
guys or just kind of doing their like it's been
a pleasure performing with you this night on the deck
of that Titanic type pa. But the phrase died suddenly

(28:54):
has been trending on Twitter, and I was like, what
the funk is this. It's so it's a documentary that's
dreaming on Twitter, first of all, and it purports to
quote present the truth about the greatest ongoing mass genocide
in human history COVID vaccines. Oh that's what it's. It's

(29:14):
mass genocide. Okay, and it's it's called died suddenly, and
you're like, oh wow, like what is going on? And
this shouldn't surprise anyone. The film never actually proves that
anyone died suddenly because of the vaccine. It just instead
makes like the most outlandish, spurious, mendacious even connections between

(29:36):
like the like introduction of the vaccine and just other
events that happened completely unrelated. Like there's not there's no context,
there's no scientific there's not one like a bit of
scientific evidence. It's really like the vaccines came out and
this guy fell down. What do you think about that?
Like so there were just like pictures of blood clots,

(29:57):
like and then they're just like okay, so what is
no one really saying that. They're just being like yeah,
blood cloth like just saying like buzzwords. And again, the
whole quote unquote documentary features a lot of footage of
people who they again the title says, died suddenly, except
for the fact that like these people that are in there,

(30:19):
not only they say they did. It's not that they
collapsed as a result of getting the vaccine. These people
didn't even die, Like it's just this like really really
opportunistic grip. So okay, there's a whole Twitter thread that's
going through this documentary looking at the quote unquote deaths
in this like like in this trailer, and a lot

(30:40):
of them can be debunked because they were like newsy moments.
Like there was a woman who stumbled like on a
train platform because she hadn't eaten all day, but like
in a in a in the like sort of in
a vacuum. The footage is like this woman stumbled off
a train platform, but admittedly she was like my bloodsuckers
lodge didn't eat and that's what happened. Were they saying
that she stumbled off the platform because she got the vaccine,

(31:03):
that's the implication. Yes. Then they even showed like because
the whole thing is like died. So and then they
showed like like one of these like royal guards of
Buckingham Palace who like fainted, because that happens a lot too,
you like, it's not a thing you haven't seen with
like those like guards who just stands knees you've passed out, yea.
Then they showed this basketball player from Florida, Kyante Johnson,

(31:26):
who like he he this was headlines he collapsed in
a game in December of and which was before he
could have been vaccinated. Like unless he like pulled up
with a fake ideas like I'm high risk and a
senior citizen, can I get a vaccine? They're like, that's that,
that's not what has happened. And he even said he

(31:47):
just like had nothing, like I just I just passed
out and like it was very scary for me. That's
what happened, nothing to do with the vaccine. So it's again,
this has been so clearly like not a obviously just
a bad eight like you know, shot at when the
pun is intended at like COVID misinformation, you know. And
if you're asking yourself, is this Elon Musk's fault, well yes,

(32:08):
of course, Like first of all, the the account is verified,
so a lot of people like have just been watching
and who are not very savvy, and I think it's
it's just like the overall reception of it has been
some people kind of retweeting it, but mostly people being like,
what how are you going to let this be on
the platform right now? Like this is so this isn't

(32:30):
even good and again these people are like grifting because
they're just asking people for money at the end. Oh
really what wait, but are they promising anything? And they're like, hey,
help us for their investigations. I think, just to you know,
just to get just to get more, just to get
the facts out. You know. It's the same thing all
these grifters do. It's like you you present this like

(32:53):
just gigantic, unfathomable battle that has to be done, and
you're like, and I know how to fight it, and
just give me some money to do it, so you
don't know, I'll take care of it for you. Money
will solve all your problems. Wow, this is feels to
me as like a very long time adamant Twitter user,
like the first step in a pivot towards four Chan,
which I think is the direction that's going. I mean,

(33:16):
a lot of Elon's fanboys live there on Reddit. I
think they're gonna have some of them will migrate to Twitter.
We're already seeing a giant exodus of people from the platform,
and I think everyone who stayed has sort of that
will eventually leave state as an opportunity to be like hey,
they want to see like the burning, like what happens

(33:36):
in the final days of Twitter. But to you know,
there's still a lot of questions like where do we go?
I think I found the solution. I think it's high.
It's high, it's where it's at. Man, it's a perfect
combination of Instagram and Twitter and then like a dash
of my Space. If they add a top eight, it's

(33:57):
really over for everybody. It's so much fun and it's
very like chill. I'm sure. I'm almost hesitant to like
spread the word because this feels like the right amount
of everyone. A lot of people on Twitter have I've
been seeing everybody been like, hey, man, I think the
party is over all hive, and then well, I think
this is also where we're at. Two is like this

(34:18):
truly is like when a party get a house party
gets broken up by the cops and you know where
we're going next, and you're trying to figure out and
like there's three different options and you're like, well, the
other person just said Mastadon, I thought it was post social.
They're like, no, it's hive. Macedon is definitely not. That's
too complicated. I can't figure it out right. But just

(34:39):
to go get back to this documentary, I just want
to say, the guy behind this movie is Stu Peter
and this doctor oh wait, no, he's not a doctor.
Make that former bounty hunter turned podcaster who was kicked
off of Spotify for claiming that COVID vaccines were a
military bioweapon full of metallic parasites who just wanted to

(34:59):
get that last in there. And you've seen any good
documentaries recently. I know I'm going to watch this one
now here. I don't know if this one's the trailer.
I mean it is wild to see, Like do you
see this kind of stuff in like like in the
food world or just like in your line of work,
where it's sometimes someone just like thinks they know like

(35:21):
how your field works, and they're like, I'm gonna make
this wild claim and maybe it'll get some attention, and
I'll pray that no one is actually like knows what
they're talking or knows what I'm trying to talk about
and then be found out. Oh yeah, I mean I
think they have everywhere in the food world for sure,
Like almost every every diet based claim turns out to
be like not so good, right right right, It's like

(35:43):
I'm on the cash. You and Tiger's Milk diet and
you're gonna love it. Shout out Tiger's Milk. Those protein bars.
I really like those, um anyway, So don't check out that.
Uh And no one suddenly died. If anything, you're better
off watching Suddenly Susan. Okay, Uh, Let's take a quick
Barry ache and we'll be right back to talk more

(36:03):
right after this, and we're back. Last week, there was this,
like a few write ups I saw about something called
the Modern Day Night k N I g h T Project,

(36:25):
and I was like, what is going on? We asked
j Mr Writer to to do a little digging on
this phenomenon, and it turns out it's it's a real thing.
And if you loved Summer Camp but you a wished
it had more guns and enduring tests and be you're
currently a sad adult man, we've got great news. You

(36:45):
can sign up for this project or this weird camp.
And while you think a Modern Day Night would presumably
just spend their time chilling out with Michael Caine and
Andrew Lloyd Waite Webber in a castle somewhere, these guys
are basically just in a boot camp, like a twelve
thousand dollar boot camp and the website if you go
to the website, what they're saying it's designed for men

(37:06):
who are quote living in unfulfilled life of passivity and
frustration or what they call but clearly are like unable
to trademark quote the walking dead. Uh. He said, in
simple terms, most men surrender to circumstances and accept mediocrity.
So they're trying to get you in your like masculine
grind mindset. And the introduction also includes passages about what

(37:29):
it means to be a man, like in bold letters
is what does it mean to be a man? And
apparently it means being one type of primate rather than
a different kind. Uh. They said, they don't need to
look any further than nature, because nature never lies. The
picture of the left depicts a chimpanzee and a bonobo
ape on their right, and the chimpanzee is like showing

(37:51):
its fangs and like snarling and teeth gnashing. The bonobo
is like just like, hey, I'm just chilling. And it says,
when you understand the difference between these two creatures, you'll
know why some men can walk into a room and
instantly command presence in respect the way of the Chimp
is based on strength, courage, honor, and brotherhood. The way
of the Bonobo is based on weakness, pleasure, full time,

(38:15):
relaxation and fun. I'm sorry to have fun y'all want,
But nobles have a ton of sex too. That's like,
what do you do? What are they tapping to a
very specific type of man that the internet type of
man who doesn't want a lot of sex? Apparently, well,
I think makes sex. I mean maybe yes, but also

(38:40):
the guys who feel that they are like what's the
term they use involuntarily celibrate? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
And I think and especially because some of those guys
seem very hard up to be, like to have their
manhood defined and outlined for them in a way that
is then not questionable, and doing something like this where
like no, I was with guides and Wilderness, so they

(39:02):
can never tell me I wasn't masculine or that I
didn't have the answers. I took leadership courses. I's also
got like a lot of I used to work for UM.
All the names are escaping me today, guys. I'm so sorry.
They're like life coaches, but their brand is not based
on anything of event tearing you down in subtle ways,

(39:23):
like the writing of Yeah, well, like the writing is
will be like this, doesn't it suck that no one
loves you? And don't you wish your body was a
little bit better so you can be more confident when
you talk to people. And you don't have those skills,
but I definitely do, so you know, make sure like
they just constantly are like reminding people of any possible
insecurity so that by the time you're finished reading their letter,

(39:45):
you feel like you need help. And that's definitely like
reading on the website. Here's okay, if you've made it
this far down this page, then I can already tell
that you're not like most men who know they're meant
for more, but allow fear and poor discipline to stifle
personal development, income and impact. That's key freezing to just

(40:05):
like trigger a person with low self esteem into purchasing
whatever the packages. And it's really horrifying that copy can
do that. It's very successful. Yeah, the power of copy
and also the power of the chimp too. Let's not
forget courage and honor are foundational to the chimpanzee, not
randomly biting off the face of your like human owner, Like,

(40:27):
that's when I see chimpanzee's in the fucking news. It
doesn't sound very honorable or brotherhood. But again, they're wild
animals and that's why shouldn't keep them as pets. The
pictures are so upsetting, like it's a bunch of men
in the water and white t shirts. They're kind of dirty.
They all look very tired and hungry. Yeah, it's like
a cross between a baptism and like a child boy

(40:49):
fire exactly, baptism by fire. You got it right there, Joel.
The founder of this is some guy named bed ros
Culian and uh, he wrote the he's got a YouTube
channel and he's got a book called Man Up, and uh,
you know his YouTube channel, he's got stuff like this
guy's tadded. He's like just ripped, like bearded gen extra dude.

(41:10):
It's like the just the card says cancel culture. Okay, yeah,
I'm sure there's some really interesting takes on there. And
he like, you know that this whole thing conclusively proves
by toxic masculinity isn't a thing using graphics borrowed from
a mid nineties karaoke video, Because there are these like
videos that like in impact font look I love it.

(41:30):
I loved Impact font too when I first discovered fonts
as a child. But this the style guide is terrible here,
and there's like there's just like these in these videos
and stuff. Is no such thing as toxic masculinity like
played over very just you know, mundane b roll type
of stuff. But again, according to this guy, his goal
is to present men with a crossroads and it's either

(41:53):
stay a bitch or become a beast in his words,
which is also incidentally the same crossroads presented to the
Prince in Beauty and the Beast. But one of the
project's head instructor, Steve Eckert, he's like saying, you're not
allowed to be a man anymore. You're almost a racist
if you're a man these days. It's crazy, Oh, you're confused.

(42:19):
You haven't been understanding the message. That's such a weird
thing to say, Like you couldn't write better comedy than that.
Where someone's like, you're almost a racist if you're a
man these days. What do you? What do you? What
do you want? In their whiteness based off of all
of the if you go to the video section, they

(42:41):
have testimonials, Yeah, and then it's looking very white in there.
I'm not seeing anybody else Joel Again, you know, I
don't want to be regressive here, but this isn't for you, Okay, clearly, bros.
It's for bros with twelve thousand dollars to pay, not
include eating, flights or accommodation so they can get accommodations. No,

(43:06):
that's just to be yelled at and play with guns
and get told you're a puss, say by some fucking
ripped guy, and then I think you come out the
other side better pay Dominatrix. It's some money better spent,
and they're probably not gonna full you twelve For twelve grand,
you can build a pretty good dungeon. Explicitly like this,

(43:27):
this whole thing, like there's a lot of militarized stuff
because you know what, deep rooted psychological problem hasn't been
solved by a handgun. I think it's a very very
good combination that they have going there. And like the
beginning of this quote unquote project starts with people being
thrown into a car with bags over their heads, like

(43:47):
the recruiting scene in Old School. We're getting their fraternity together,
just snatching people off the street, and then they have
to do a lot of physical challenges, and there was
like apparently someone this is and confirmed, but like someone
in like a Reddit post was talking about like a
guy who did it and said that they were they
were buried alive in body bags. For a little bit

(44:08):
too with what's been happening, because like, Okay, so now
it's so interesting. Okay, so it's like not just that
like motivational speaker kind of life, but it's also a
little bit of like Christian church camp if you've ever
had to go through that. It's also a little bit
I forget what they're called, but basically it's traumatized like

(44:30):
an entire generation of teenagers whose parents would like pay
to have them kidnapped and troubled teen camps, and yes,
that was actually has to be like weird worker camps
where kids were being like sexually assaulted but also worked
to the point of exhaustion sometimes death, where girls were
forced to like take their pregnancy to term and forced

(44:51):
into like long term isolation spaces, like horrible spaces. But again,
I think it feeds into this idea for a certain
kind of guy who thinks, like the only way to
prove that I am a man is by going through
the most amount of hardship as possible. And because I
wasn't fortunate enough quotes to go through any misfortune previously,

(45:13):
I have to manufacture it later in life to prove
a point. It's very weird. What's to wake up my
weakness inside of me? Well, that's why I'm going, and
that's why Jack is there today. I didn't want to
reveal that on the show. That's why Jack's out. He's
still Someone extracts Jack immediately. He's not built for Ever
since someone said he didn't know how to pose with

(45:35):
his hands in a photograph, he's really been grappling with
that and he's like, what if I had guns in
my hands and would so? Uh, you know, thoughts in
prayers to him, But he'll come back with a great
assessment of that. So yeah, just you know, just everybody
out there, you don't need to pay twelve thousand dollars
to to find out your you got a lot of

(45:55):
Just therapy is cheaper twelve thousand dollars. With the therapy ship,
you're gonna be good at really tell you will be
able to look somebody in the eye during a conversation
and it won't be because someone hits you with a
two by four on your back while push up God
buried alive brow. When is there any part of this
experience that appeals to you in any way, shape or form. Yeah,

(46:17):
that sounds very vermont Man to me. Well, I'm hoping
there's other options besides bitch or beast, Like something is
there like a middle. But I'm also thinking about this,
Like I just saw this video on Twitter, of course,
of these dudes jousting each other on like you know,
they had like real lances, but on bicycles, and you know,
the lances had like a you know, almost like a

(46:39):
boxing glove thing on the end, so they wouldn't actually
like kill each other, but like charging each other on
bicycle and jousting. And I'm wondering if this is part
of being a modern night or if this is totally separate.
It sounds like it would go right into the curriculum,
no problem. Yeah, If anything, those guys jousting at least there,
I feel like that's like hardcore LARPing, you know, like
at least you're like you're doing the fucking thing and

(47:02):
you a nerf sword. It would be very bendy. Nobody's
getting hurt at a proper LARPing session. My dad, like
in the nineties in New York, his friend used to
do these like weird like fight club things in New
York where people would make their own armor with like
parking cones and ship and they just fucking get down
in parks like Washington Square Park. Yeah, and like a

(47:25):
man is more foreign to me. I don't understand this all. Yeah,
I mean, I think there's just this like weird, bizarre
trying to capture what they believe is quote unquote like masculinity.
And I think for a lot of like men, they
like maybe like hold their grandfathers in high regard to
and are like, yeah, that guy who was in a
war who didn't cry, but also like gave my dad

(47:46):
a lot of weird issues because the way he raised him,
that had an entire family across state lines and never
communicated with his children. Great examples. Yeah, he was not
in the field working every day, he was exhausted. He
broke his body and there was no one able to
fix it. Like, you don't want to be that guy.

(48:07):
I don't want to be no bussy. I want to
be a beast with his creepy Candelabra and teapot that
talked to me, or that's Beauty and the Beast I forget. Anyway, Rown,
I gotta ask you. I want to talk a little
bit about food because that is your like area of
expertise and your new podcast about chocolate, because you know,

(48:29):
right now we have Thanksgiving upon us. I have many questions, like,
first off, is there a perfect Thanksgiving food? Before we
get into the podcast, just want to kick that off
from there. Is there a perfect Thanksgiving food? In your opinion?
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw throw the sort
of one actually from left field. I actually think the

(48:50):
the thing that should start off everything's giving meal is oysters.
Oh go on, are you guys? Os? Yeah? Okay some
people sugar oysters are a deal breaker of some people,
but you're on? Yeah, do you like? I'm I like
the little slime. I love the brine too. When it's Brian,

(49:10):
it's my favorite. Exactly exactly. Actually, a box oysters just
arrived in my house like an hour ago for Thanksgiving.
That Thanksgivings when they're at their best. Oh really yeah yeah.
Then people don't realize this, but oysters have a whole
like seasonal thing because their lifestyle. So when the water
gets cold, they start to get they kind of go

(49:31):
into hibernation winter, just like little tiny bears. So and
just like little tiny bears, they plump themselves up to
survive that hibernation period. So when the things get cold
in the fall, they start eating like crazy and and
fattening themselves up. So around like Thanksgiving through New Year's
they are at their like peak of deliciousness. I had

(49:54):
no idea, Yeah, I had nold Wait, so why start
off with oysters? I mean, like I don't I'm not like,
is there some experiential science to that or why why
do you why do you say that is the perfect opener? Well,
they don't really fill you up in any way, you know,
like there's they're kind of like living salt water in

(50:14):
a sense. So it's just like you got a quick
hit of of salty oceany deliciousness and then they're gone.
And so you're not like you're not ruining the courses
to come right Oh man, now, I'm of course you
don't drink anything with your mute, so they're really salty,
So I don't know, you kind of have to have

(50:34):
I mean I'll have something after but I'm never gonna
be like, Okay, first drink the liquor out of the
loud of the shell, then have then eat the oyster. Meya,
I'll have something after all. You gotta have the liquid. Yeah,
and would you what about us their perfect Thanksgiving food? Yes,
I'm stealing my answer from Sumine no strat. Okay, so

(50:57):
that cranberries because they're the only on the table and
they cut through everything. As absolutely said, like, if you
don't have cranberry sauce, it's not Thanksgiving to me. And
I'm a I'm a jelly can girl. Yeah, I like
it real basic. My dad likes it because you can
slice along the ridges, so it's like perfect portions of it.

(51:19):
I love cranberry sauce. I was just saying yesterday I
can't do cranberry sauce. I just why why? I just
don't there. I have a My palette is not oh
it's not a tuned for that burst of cranberry on
my Thanksgiving plate. I just I know why it's there.
But I just prefer I don't indulge. I like to
keep it pretty straightforward. Have you have you tried all

(51:41):
the version there's so many versions. Try the time about
composed we're talking about Yeah, I've tried. Look, I always try.
It's like candy corn. I'm like, yeah, this year is
the year. And then no, I don't want this keep
you talking about cranberries and candy corn in the same sentence.
This is blasphemy. I'm just saying, it's like a thing
that I always feel like this will be the year
that I open up to. And then I realized I

(52:01):
just need to accept that it might not be from Okay,
you know that's it, that's your truth. It's wrong, but
I understand it. Okay, what about favorite dessert for Thanksgiving?
Go joel? Okay, probably chocolate peacampie? Is I feel for me?
I don't like a pumpkin pie. I need my gourds
cooked in breads or roasted like fire roasted where they're

(52:24):
like almost caramelized. But a chocolate peacampie, especially if you
can get one from like a South Carolina Georgia Texas area,
forget sensational. Actually Connecticut has really good one too. I'm
glad you brought up I'm glad you brought up chocolate
because Roman obsessions wild chocolate is your podcast and there's

(52:49):
chocolate is something I love to eat and every time
I see it like harvested, I'm like, that's fucking chocolate.
How that? How that turned a chocolate? Can you tell
us a little bit about like your your podcasting, like
you know, just it give us us a little bit
of an education, like you did on red wine and oysters.

(53:09):
So you're right, like yeah, Like so chocolate is made
from the seeds of this tree that grows in in
the tropics called a cacouchary, and you open up these
pods and it's just it looks like this white, slimy,
maggoty pulp and you're like, that's definitely not chocolate. So
it has to go through this whole process where they
they scoop out the pulp and seeds and fermented. It

(53:32):
has to be fermented, Yeah, it's it has to be
fermented or it never tastes like chocolate. So and that's part.
That's part that sometimes gets skipped in like crappy chocolate.
But anyway, so they do that and then you dry
it and then you have to roast it and then
it starts to look almost like almonds, like these brown beans,
and then those ground and mixed with sugar to make chocolate. Man. Okay,
so I had no idea how to be fermented note

(53:54):
to sell, Yeah, so I'll never be able to. And
it smells almost like like chocolate wine when it's fermenting,
Like you walk through an area where it's all being
heaped up and fermented, and it's like it feels alcoholic almost. Okay,
I like that, Like what you know, what is it
about chocolate that makes it? It's like one of these
like coveted things throughout history, you know, and and even

(54:18):
now like we like it's it's one of Joel's favorite deserves,
like certainly my favorite kind of ice cream. And if
anything has cholcoln like yes, that like oysters. I guess
people say it's an aphrodisiac, but I don't know if
that's what the science is behind that. But what what
is it? Like, you know, like why is it? Why
does it? Like why is it so? What is it?
Why is it so powerful in your estimation? Like in

(54:39):
looking at how so many people like fight over it
and it's like this just gigantic industry. And that's one
thing that we keep trying to explore in the podcast
is what why why do people go crazy for the stuff?
Why do they go to such great length for it?
And part of it is it's actually a pretty good
recreational substance. It's got a bunch of different psychoactive compounds

(54:59):
in it, so they're not like they're not gonna hit
you over the head like like ayahuasca or anything. But
it's got a lot of compounds in it and make
it feel good, you know, like that get the dopamine going.
So and that's why, you know, the Maya and the Aztec,
it was chocolate was like the heart of their rituals,
like all their ceremonies they would be They always did

(55:20):
it as a drink, like basically like a hot chocolate,
really thick chocolate, and that was like their thing that
they worshiped with because it made you feel really good.
So it's got it's got some cannabinoids in it, it's
got some things that sort of get your heart going
a little bit, but then it's got other stuff that
just you know, science wise, no one really knows why,

(55:40):
but it you come away feeling like about the universe. No,
I'm sure anybody who likes chocolate can think of a
time they've they had a chocolate that they tried for
the first time that was so good and like, like
you give a wave fucking washes over you. I don't
know if I'm being hyperbolic, but sometimes I have that
sensation something really rich like chocolate. I'm like, I feel

(56:03):
like I'm going the hyper space on the Millennium Falcon
ship like lines, and I'm like, oh, me too. In fact,
I can't do it late at night or like I'm
in hyper space and it's not sleeping, you know. Oh,
Luckily I don't have that issue. I could I could eat,
I could eat, I can drink espresso in bad and
I'll be fine. But it's just not a good idea
to just each other anyway. My wife doesn't like that.

(56:27):
But what are you when I saw your face going
in all kinds of places when you're talking about all
the psychoactive chemicals, Because I believe it. I believe it.
Like my mom growing up, she loved like a dove chocolate,
so she will like have the in the kitchen little
things and then they were like perfect, little bite sized
like pick me up. You know. I think every major

(56:49):
celebration in my life has had some form of chocolate. Nearby,
you know, whether it's like a birthday cake or you know,
and I scream after like an epic face. Elf, it's
always it's like a I don't know, I think chocolate,
especially as an American, I'm not sure like globally what

(57:09):
it's like, but as an American, there's always some chocolate
nearby if you need to pick me up, or if
you need to celebrate, or if you need a random
gift to hand off this you're seeing somebody randomly, like,
it's just it's available to us at all times in
every ways, and I'm grateful for it, right and not
even like to your point where and it feels like
that's like it's weird that even a box of chocolate,

(57:30):
like people like thank you for this gift, you know
what I mean, Because any other like sweet like quote
unquote candy, someone might be a little bit like, oh
this doesn't quite rise to the occasion. But chocolate, like
we still like we hold it like that's still sacredance
on some level, especially if you get like one of
the fancy boxes. Not to be this person. I'm a
name of a little bit, so I Dashanelle when we

(57:52):
wanted her podcast STOs chocolates and I was like, Okay,
that's kind of cute. But then I had them and
I was like, oh, this is all level cho Yeah
you're three of these a year. Wow. That totally with
like the really good stuff. Yeah, the next level stuff.
It's like you get more of that hit like slightly

(58:12):
drug like hit, but it's not too much drug, Like
that's what that's what's so good about it, you know,
like little chocolate mid morning and it's it's just wait, okay,
so explain this because there's levels to everything, and like, rowing,
I know you just said, oh, yeah, the good stuff,
what are it like, I know, like your latest episode
is talking about like like big chocolate you know, yeah,

(58:35):
like and yeah that way, those are the bad guys. Yeah,
So first off, what's the difference between like a regular
chocolate that we're like, oh, that's good and one that
like you're like, this is the this like what are
the absolute heights of chocolate dumb that I'm not aware
of or like I'm want to be aware of. Yeah,
So it kind of goes back to that, partly to
that fermentation thing. So chocolate it's a huge industry. It's

(58:57):
like a like multi bill hundred billion dollar industry, five
million tons of cacao growing every year, mostly in Africa,
and there's some real issues with forced labor. They're like
there's a lot of child labor involved. And the chocolate
companies have had for like twenty years people that after
them saying, y'all gotta figure this out, you know, and

(59:19):
the prices they pay are really low, and that's why
there ends up being this like child labor because the
farmers in Africa end up have using children because they're
being paid so little for their cacao, and they also
aren't paid enough to like treat to to like do
all these quality stuffs that they need to do. But
the chocolate companies, the big chocolate companies, they haven't really

(59:39):
gotten out of their way to try to fix that
because they want to keep the prices low. Would be
that they don't. They don't say that, but it's pretty clear.
But then so chocolate originated in the Amazon, in the
America's and there's still like these old varieties there that
have amazing flavor, usually just grown in these like tiny
farms in Latin America that have kind of been for

(01:00:00):
ott and about by the industry and that and they
are often going to all these steps to ferment it
really well, to draw out those amazing flavors and those
drug like effects more expensive. But and they're also not
using flave labor. Right, So the there's a shift now
there's are like people are really pushing to like try
to embrace these these more equitable, more sustainable forms of

(01:00:24):
chocolate production coming from the America's and also to have
that happen more in West Africa as well. Right, So
that's the difference. It's it's like it's funny every industry.
So I was like, yeah, and the conditions are so
bad for the workers because the cost cutting measures and
like and exactly what it is in chocolate if if
the like if you know farmers in like West Africa,

(01:00:46):
we're paying workers in equitable wage, how much do you
think chocolate would actually cost? Like what kind of like
what's the cost thing the savings that the like big
childhood companies are so like being like, oh man, it's
a difference between a five dollar and fucking sixty thing
or like what it's not it's the difference between like
a two dollar Hershey bar and a three dollar Hershey bar.

(01:01:08):
And yeah, like so the governments and like Ivy Coast
and Ganta have like they just put a premium on
their their chocolate right to cow. They're like, all right,
we're gonna charge you an extra four hundred bucks a
ton so that all the farmers can have a live
mobile wage. And Hershey immediately like went around that and

(01:01:29):
bought like I forget thirty thousand tons of cacao on
the futures market at a lower price to get around
having to pay that like void premium. So the big,
the big guys have been avoid trying to avoid higher
prices at all costs, and they won't be able to
for long. But yeah, it's not that much different. It's
like everything would be a little more expensive. That's that's

(01:01:53):
so wild and hers huh, I mean it's like it's again,
it's one of these things to you always see about,
like fair trade. There's like every year there's a new
fair trade thing, you know, because like our consciousness is
now realizing. Oh yeah, like we gotta look at our
coffee like harvesting practices and you look at this harvesting
practice and now with chocolate is it like so it

(01:02:14):
is a burgeoning movement like it can where because I
want to be able to now say I want this
kind of chocolate because my main rone just put me
on what is like? What's what's what's like the Rolls
Royce of chocolates that we can put some of our
listeners onto for who those who participate in the chocolate
indulging experience. All right, So the real Rolls Royce for
me right now is a woman I focused on the

(01:02:36):
podcast named Louisa Abraham. She's a Brazilian woman. She came
out of she quit culinary school like ten years ago
when she was in her mid twenties and decided she
just wanted to make chocolate out of the wild cacao
growing in the Amazon. So she's been partnering with these
different different indigenous groups and different parts of the Amazon
to make a chocolate with each of their cocaos and

(01:02:57):
basically to funnel that money back into their commune to Basically,
it's a way of because chocolate it grows as an
understory in the rainforest in the Amazon, like it's a
little tree, so if you harvest the chocolate, you don't
have to touch the forest, so you can sort of
keep It's a way of create making money while keeping
the forest alive, so she's partnering with these different groups

(01:03:19):
in the Amazon to do that. And also each one
of those cocos has a totally different flavor to it, right,
so you can kind of like taste all these different
flavors of the of the rainforest through your chocolates. Probably
fermented to right and beautifully fermented. That's one because and
I was with her, like you go to these areas
middle of nowhere, you know, you're like sleeping in a

(01:03:39):
hammock and trying not to get eaten by a crocodile,
and you're teaching these workshops about how to ferment the
beans to make really good chocolate. Yeah. Wow, okay, we'll
see now I can now I'm armed with some some
good conversation for things. Can you drop the name again
for listen? A B R A M. And she has

(01:04:01):
an awesome Instagram account, so where with amazing images of
what she's doing. That's a good place for everyone to start. Okay, fantastic. Always,
like I'll see, I always like to meet people who've
got like a level of expertise on something like something
like this, because it's been very eye opening. Rollan, thanks
so much for that and thanks again for stopping by

(01:04:21):
the Daily Zeitgeist. Rowan, where can people find you and
follow you? And and the podcast? Where can they find that? Yeah?
So me, I'm Rowan Jacobson dot com. And you can
actually find the podcast you there. But the podcast is
Obsessions Wild Chocolate and it's on my heart. That is
the easiest place to find it. But it's on all
the other platforms too. Fantastic fantastic. Uh And is there

(01:04:44):
a tweet or any other work of social media that
you've been enjoying or anything like that you want to
shout out the cultural tutor on Twitter. I don't know
if you ever seen I don't know who this person is,
but it's like awesome little tweet threads of out some
random piece of culture that you've never heard of, and
you always walk away like, wow, I knew nothing about

(01:05:05):
that and I learned something today. Oh wow, Oh yeah
this a colics? You're right, okay, little little lessons I
like that if you. Yeah, like like the inside of
a history teacher's mind, and it's like, yeah, I guess
I could tweet something every day. Here's another nugget the
inside of the cool history teacher. Like, yeah, when you're like, yeah,

(01:05:25):
I like this guy's class. Yeah, like my history teacher,
Mr Wooler. We said I won't smoke pot with you
guys when you graduate, but if if it was made
legal in California, I would do it with you. It's
just a matter of legality. Shout out to him. He
just seems like he might be that guy. Yeah, yeah,
I wouldn't. I wouldn't doubt it. I would not doubt it. Joel. Yeah,
thank you so much for joining me today. Where can

(01:05:46):
people find you? Follow you and support you and listen
to you. And what's a tweet that you like? Yeah? Uh,
y'all know and can find me all over the internet
at Joel when he gets j O E L L
E M O N I Q you E. I have
access to all of these social media's, but predominantly I'm
at Instagram and over on the Hive. Now it's some

(01:06:07):
Hive things I've been enjoying. This is from Vita Ayala,
really talented writer. They say if Twitter was work, I'm
hoping Hive will be like a lobby at the bar
Con Hotel for everyone who doesn't want to drink or
smooth is meeting up to get milkshakes and hang out
with their friends slash meeting friends. You remember when social

(01:06:28):
media was fun. That's hive, y'all. That's high. Also, before
I bounce it, just really really want to encourage everyone
to go give Steven Spielberg's new film a chance. It's
called The Fableman's It is a pseudo documentary about his childhood.
Imagine if a master director decided to take a look
at their life with a Tony and Oscar winning writer.

(01:06:50):
It's amazing. And Michelle Williams, who won an Oscar for
My Week with Maryland a long time ago, stars in
it as Steven's mom, and she is breathtaking. She's brilliant.
It is such a good movie. It is heartwarming and
devastating and inspiring and then, like all Spielberg movies, uplifting.
It's delightful. Go see it. Make sure it makes money

(01:07:12):
so people will continue to support films like this. Yeah,
oh my, I said Tony Award winning and referencing Tony Kushner, Right,
I saw the pun there I was in it. It
was there was there a tweet not just saying just
like I gave you all the good stuff from the hive,
just get in there now before it melts down. I
think only two people run it. I feel like that's

(01:07:33):
the one tweet I see over and over. It's like,
it ain't you ready for millions yet? But it is not.
It crashes frequently, but the times you can access it
are beautiful, and if there's um you can either buy
songs for your page their dollar ninety nine to help
support the app, or there's a website, which of course
I don't know, but you can definitely google it where
if you're the kind of person who has a hundred

(01:07:54):
plus dollars to donate, they're basically taking like investor donations
to hopefully, you know, enrich their structure and also bring
in more staff soon hopefully, fingers crossed, we'll see. I
like it. I wanted to survive. It's been a lot
of fun. We need somewhere to yell at each other
and tweet stuff like do horses get bored? Shout out
to everybody who were applied to that threat, because I

(01:08:16):
really I was like, damn sometimes if you'd be feeling
bad for a horse just standing there ship Anyway, some
tweets that I like, uh, Griffin gulledge at Griffin Gollage Street.
And no one is more prepared to lose their entire
online social media identity than millennials who have lost their
A I am my Space, Google Reader, Google Plus and
remember the early years of Facebook. We will only return

(01:08:38):
more powerful, more annoying than before. Yeah, we've been through this.
We've been through this. We don't worry. We always know,
we always find each other. We know where the after
party is eventually. Uh. And then this one is from
at Rejected Hannah. It's a video of like the press
tour for a Strange World with Jabuki Mr jillen All,
and there's she tweeted this silence. I would have killed

(01:09:01):
myself on the spot. This is Jake Jillenhall wrapping up
like this junket interview for Strange Worlds, flanked by his
co stars, and he thinks he's just killing it with
this little quip here on the Strange World Junket. I
think they're all very relatable. You know, this world, this
world we live in today is a pretty strange world too.

(01:09:28):
They let that one hair dry that turned to Jabouki like,
please give me something, jabouk he said, do not get
me mixed up in this. I think I can for
my comedy, I can't laugh at just anything. I think
you can hear the producer be like okey dokey, because
let me just play it again. I want to make

(01:09:49):
sure as it say, Oh jabouky okay, someone's asking JABOOKI.
Here's a question for you. That's amazing. Oh my god.
You can find me at Miles of Gray where there's
at symbols. Just pick one. I'll probably be there eventually.
And also find me and Jack on our basketball podcast

(01:10:09):
Miles and Jack got mad boost These we also got
also got that other podcast for twenty day Fiance if
you like to talk about also check that out. You
can find the Dailies that Guys at Daily see cash
on Twitter, Uh, the dailies I guess on Instagram. Got
a Facebook fan Paise, and website Dailies that Guys dot com.
We're posts the episodes and our footnote but notes thank

(01:10:30):
you Joel, where you can check all that out. Plus
the song we write out on the song We're gonna
write out today is from the new Oh seven Oh
Shake album. Uh. This track is called Cocoon and this
goes hard. If you don't know about oh seven Oh Shake, Uh,
the Jersey native. I always got love for for the

(01:10:51):
Jersey artists. Just an amazing rapper and singer and it's
just a just a good track to check out. So
this is Cocoon by seven Shake alright. Cool? Well, you
can find the dailies I KISTU on the I Heart
radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'll be back later to tell you what's trending
and then we'll see that all right Bye,