Safety Is Relative, Jordan Holds Grudges? 5.12.20

In episode 628, Jack, Miles, and Jamie are joined by The Black List's Kate Hagen to discuss states re-opening, how coronavirus spreads, #Plandemic going viral, The Last Dance recaps, and more!

FOOTNOTES:

1. Coronavirus cases expanding in states preparing to reopen
2. The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them
3. A 2nd wave of US virus cases will plunge the economy into a depression, Moody's economist says
4. As '#Plandemic' goes viral, those targeted by discredited scientist's crusade warn of 'dangerous' claims
5. Who is Judy Mikovits in ‘Plandemic,’ the coronavirus conspiracy video just banned from social media?
6. Fact-checking ‘Plandemic’: A documentary full of false conspiracy theories about the coronavirus
7. ESPN's Michael Jordan documentary: Big takeaways from Episodes 7 and 8 of 'The Last Dance'
8. Craig Hodges: 'Jordan didn't speak out because he didn't know what to say'
9. WATCH: Jurassic 5 - Swing Set

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to season one, thirty three,
Episode two of Daly's Nice, the production of My Heart Radio.
This is a podcast where we take a deep dock
to America, share consciousness, and say, officially, off the top,
fuck the Koch Brothers and fuck Cox News. It's Tuesday,

(00:21):
my twelve. My name is Jack O'Brien a k A.
He's Jack, and he's always down to host a party
with his kids and clowns. They say, Jack, can you
watch goofy now? He says, I guess, but inside he dies.
The Zike Gang says Jack, A, you're a fine dad.

(00:45):
What a good uncle you could be, and your jokes
can steal attension from this disease. That is courtesy and
Banny and I'm thrilled to be joined as always, I'm
my co host, Mr Miles grags COVID nineteen Jadezy warrented

(01:11):
and where your photos hug There's no hugging thing sucks.
Billy Ocean Care Caribbean Queen. That is a way back.
If you want to know how I am. Thank you too,
Bondesleia Social Media in turn on sixteen five at Fresh
Frankie for that Billy Ocean inspired a kay, thank you

(01:33):
so much, love me some billy ocean. I'm thrilled to
be joined by my other co host, Jamie Lauper. I
think he's to work in the club Covie one now,
he said on his couch. She's sad, sad? Anywhere's the podcast?

(02:01):
All day? Doing little zen? She brings home, heart takes prison.
Oh busy, she says, Sonny, stay home or you'll get caught.
It doesn't make a difference if you're red killed or not.

(02:23):
You've got the virus. Now here's a masking gloves. I'll
give you your shots. What I no more, well made
it in the car, wash your heads. They won't make
any doors. Well made it in the car. That's I

(02:56):
think we all had to do that guitar want that
is the most powerful a song has ever been in
my head after one of these a K I don't
know if I want to compliment you or tell you
to go fund yourself. My heart rate is skyrocketing, according
to my biometric meat Peter. That's from at abstrustle or

(03:20):
user name official Dickhead. Really really powerful stuff from official
Dickhead brought the heat today. I've been watching official Dickhead
develop his a K voice on Twitter. It's good to
see him finally make the big league. We're thrilled to
be joined in our fourth seat by the talented Kate Hagan. Hey, guys,

(03:45):
thanks for having me. I didn't know I was gonna
get serenaded. First thing. Very exciting, always always, it's our
favorite thing you're doing. They say, Kate, now you sing.
I'm not gonna sing. If you've seen me do karaoke,
you don't want to see me sing. It's not a
pretty picture. Do you like karaoke though? I do, because
that's a karaoke is all about attitude not ability. Um yeah,

(04:06):
And it's a great time and it's very freeing to
be like, here's the thing I can't do, and I'm
doing it. I mean, I think you just saw between
Jack and I that was clearly about attitude and not ability.
Jamie has ability. We're at we're attitude singers. Able singer
has actually done in the national anthem out of sporting event.
That's the mark I use. But what do you sing

(04:27):
when you go to karaoke? I'm moisture. That's how you
learn about somebody. Yeah, it's um, I sing all sorts
of stuff. I would say my sort of uh staples
are I like doing Addicted to Love, I like doing Criminal, Um,
I like doing nine to five, which is a really
hard to sing. Yeah, I don't like Yeah it's a
good time. I can't do any of the like, you know,

(04:49):
songs that require actual chops Like I love Patsy Klin.
I cannot sing a Patsy Klin so karaoke that I
don't want to dislong her memory. Criminal is all attitude.
I got goose bump just here, and I'm like, whoa,
it's big scorpio energy. You gotta support there. What does
everyone what does everyone's go to karaoke? Montell, montell, this

(05:12):
is how we do it. That's the first song I
always warm up my voice to that. I let people know, Look,
this is what you can expect from me. Just some
good Torch songs r and from the nineties to the table. Yeah.
I've never gone karaoke singing in my entire life. What
I've never been karaoke singing? This is what I know

(05:36):
you guys do. Invisible by Clay Akin, Invisible by Clay An,
I don't even know insible. I feel like it's in
your range. You could do it. Oh my, I can't
believe I'm just learning this about you that you had
never been to like any kind of shame, but you're

(05:58):
so ready. You do every day. Yeah, I know. Huh, well, huh,
I guess Jamie, I guess we got I guess we
got a little project. I guess we gotta short film
script on our hands. Sounds like a thesis project to me, Kate.
We're gonna get to know you a little bit better

(06:20):
in a moment. First, we're gonna tell our listeners a
couple of the things that we're talking about today. Uh
we I think are in the dance portion of the
Hammer and the Dance, which is how somebody described the
process of dealing with COVID. You do the full countrywide band,
and then there's like the should we come out? Should

(06:41):
we not? Like groundhog coming out of his whole type thing.
That's gonna last for a lot longer than the hammer portion,
I think, unfortunately. Uh So we're trying to figure out
what we're doing. Uh and fortunately we have our dumbest
person in charge of making the ultimate decision. So we're

(07:02):
gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about that Professor's
post on medium that was getting passed around a lot.
The risks and how to avoid them, I think is
what it was called, but it was basically just talking
about how the disease actually functions, how it passes from
one person to another. Uh, We're gonna talk about Moody's

(07:23):
how that what they think is gonna happen. We're gonna
talk about that plandemic video which classic Instinct Classic, We're
gonna talk about it, Last Dance, all of that and
plenty more. But first, Kate, we like to ask our guests,
what is something from your search history that is revealing
about who you are? So my current obsession during the

(07:46):
quarantine is defunct amusement park Rad's partially because yes, yeah,
are you a defunctal in Head? I am a defunct
land head. Oh my god, this is great something. It's yeah,
I I it's funny. I'm kind of a scaredy cat
when it comes to actual theme parks, like I can't
really do roller coasters and staff so I really enjoy

(08:08):
watching like ride throughs on YouTube of rides. I will
never be brave enough to ride. But I also love
looking up stuff that doesn't exist anymore. And the one
I found recently that I am fucking obsessed with is
the Great Gremlins Adventure, which was a ride in Australia
and Germany in the nineties where like it was a
dark ride why where you ride through on a cart

(08:30):
and like see the Gremlins like recreate scenes through movie
history with all these great animatronic gremlins. And it doesn't
exist anymore, and I'm pretty heartbroken about it, honestly, I
would give the first of all, I also yelped because
last week we're talking about a guy who had trespassed
in Orlando to camp on like Treasure Island or whatever

(08:51):
island that it was in, like a defunct Disney attraction.
And then I started going down a rabbit hole on
YouTube of just watching kids trespass all over or Lando
like closed parts about ship and I was getting the
biggest kick out of it. But now to here this see,
I was just more I think just watching I was
like loving watching kids get chased by security guards and

(09:11):
like getting invading them. But the Gremlins. Wait, it was
only in Australia and Germany, like place, How can we
didn't how how did we not know the magic of
this ride? Yeah? What is the logic behind those specifically,
are those like Gremlin? Like do people especially love gremlins
in Australia and Germany? Yeah? Right, You're like, why was

(09:33):
this not in Universal Studios here? I have to think
it's probably due to the licensing and where they could
get licensing for and it's like, oh, it'll be cheaper
to do it not in America. But I believe the
Australian park was like a sort of Warner Brothers park,
which is really intriguing to me. But I hope they
did something with those gremlins. I mean, you got you
can look up ride through, so it's incredible. It's like

(09:54):
Gremlin's doing singing in the rain, like Gremlin's doing a
Western shootout. It seems so unfair. We were cute gremlins
are prem are post water Grumlins, post water Gremlins. But
then Gizmo is in the ride. And then one of
the rides had alf and one of the rides had beetlejuice.
I can't remember which was just like dream, yeah, just

(10:17):
like a fever dream of a ride totally. I had
somebody when I posted about it on Twitter, and somebody
sent me a story that they were in Australia and
their little sister. They had to stop the ride to
pull the little sister off the ride because she was
just having a meltdown about these Gramlings. I feel like
I would maybe have a meltdown over those Grandlins. That's

(10:40):
like they freak you out. Yeah, Gremlins, aren't they cute?
I love that Good Day for Jack Facts. Yeah, Gremlins
too was one of my favorite films. The New Batch,
as we all know the key Impeel sketch on. That
is great. What is some thing that you think is underrated? Kate? Um,

(11:03):
I'm gonna talking about a director that I kind of
discovered this year and I'm still working through her filmography.
But it's funny to me during this quarantine time, everybody
is talking about like comfort food movies and especially Nancy
Myers movies. But one of my big discoveries this year
is a director named Joan Micklin Silver who made some
of the best romantic comedies I've ever seen. Um. I

(11:25):
would say the two best movies to start with her
are a movie called Crossing de Lancy, which is just
this really low key romantic comedy from the eighties with
Amy Irving and she somehow makes Peter Regert into like
the sexiest man alive in this movie. Don't ask me how.
He plays a character named the pickle Man, and by
the end of the movie you're like, where is my Pickleman?

(11:47):
And she but you know, the flip of that is
she has another film called Chili Scenes of Winter that
is about kind of you know, uh, a hapless twentysomething
who falls in love with a married woman and things
do not go well. Uh. And that's with John Hurd
and Mary Beth Hurt and it's from the seventies. But
she's really awesome. She made movies all throughout the eighties

(12:07):
and nineties. Uh, some stuff that you know, on its
face looks like horn dog comedies like Lover Boy with
Patrick Dempsey, and then you watch it and you're like, oh,
this is a movie about how women's sexual desires are
not prioritized and how their emotional lives are not shown
on screen. So she's really dope. She's still alive. If
you can seek out any of her movies, highly recommended

(12:29):
during Quarantine. Um, she's dope. Wow, Love Her Boy. I
didn't realize Lover Her Boy was that uh deep. I've
like seen various moments of Lover her Boy, but that
that's the pizza delivery one, right, where like, yeah, yeah,
I guess it's based on a true story of a

(12:50):
of a guy in Beverly Hills who was like delivering
pizzas to rich ladies and was sleeping with them. But
it starts off in that sort of like eighties raunchy mode,
and like by the middle of the movie, you have
all the women he's visiting giving these like tearful monologues
about how nobody like pays attention to them, and they're
just like trapped in these mansions and you're like, okay,
if one movie am I watching? Um, but she's I

(13:14):
don't know her movies all kind of do that. You
think you're getting one thing, and then by the end
you're like, this is very different than I thought it
was going to be, isn't it. Christie Ally, I think
the stud ever had notes are like after these women,
I don't know, like when they say these long winded things,
can Patrick Dempsey's be like, Hey, so we're gonna funk
or what or something kind of like it. After that,

(13:36):
I don't know what's going on here. It is funny
in the movie. You have those scenes and then it's
like back to the pizza parlor working. I realized that
he that Patrick Dempsey was in in eighties round com
makes me realize I have no idea how old Patrick
Dempsey is, right, I thought he must be very well

(13:58):
well preserved, because I wouldn't have guessed. Yeah, I think
he was like a teenager at that point, like the
point right, he was a lover boy, not a lover man.
The one thing I remember that from that is loverman.

(14:18):
It's just about a guy who has Uh, this is
about a guy who fox. The one thing I remember
is that extra anchovies was the order right that they
used to signal that he was because they knew it
was like so gross that nobody else would order that Anyways,
little lover boyfriend, What a time to be alive the eighties.

(14:43):
Fun fact Jack always orders extra anchovies. That is where
my order comes from. Ye just hoping that maybe this
will come back and fash him. Uh, what is something
you think is overrated? I'm going to drop a hot
one today, and honestly, it's just because it's the first
thing to that sprang to mine, and that is ranch dressing.

(15:05):
I don't understand. Ranch dressing is a concept. I find
it repulsive. Um, I don't understand why people eat it
on a variety of things that are not salad. I
can maybe understand French fries, but like ram dressing on
pizza or cheeseburger go to jail. Um? Absolutely. I you know,
as a boring white person who loves mayonnaise, I'm like,

(15:27):
why would you not just eat mayonnaise instead mayonnaise? You
get the tang and it's a better texture. I don't know.
That's my hottake for the day. Wow, because I hear
the argument that people go ranch goes a step beyond mayonnaise, man,
And I'm like, I for I love it as a
fried dipper. Uh, don't really put an onion rings. It's

(15:49):
mostly like a fried food dipper. Is how I get
down with the ranch. I'm definitely. I mean, we have
guests like Blair Sak famously will just drink I believe
ranch dressing no matter what. So that's what I'm talking about.
I'm just like, what, it's not that good? Guys? Like
what one thing that I'm surprised by is that your
connection is so good when you're clearly not calling us

(16:12):
from within America because American take there are better like
fick creamy dressings out. I don't mind ranch, but I
feel like, why have a ranch when you've got a
Caesar in the mix, If you've got a blue cheese
in the mix. Ranch almost everything you talk about extra anchovies,

(16:38):
but you can like, I feel like ranches also in
the like the lower echelon of the creamy dips. For me,
I've never dipped anything. What do you dip in caesar
dr I can only I love caesar salad. So I mean,
tell me something in your mind. What's the Jamie Loft
is caesar dipping? Collo cookies two nights ago, carrots and caesar?

(17:01):
It works. That's that's a vegetable. I thought. I'm expecting
to be like, no, man, what you do is you
take a filet o fish put it next. Well, here's
one thing that you know, those Tina's burritos. Yeah, okay,
that's my brunch a lot of days. And so I'll
have a Tina's burrito and a little puddle of caesar,

(17:21):
and you just slap around the tinas in the pile
of caesar. Not bad, slap around the cheese, pile of
Caesar authentic cuisine. Nothing is more disappointing to me than
when wings come with ranch and set of blue cheese.
Oh yeah, that's so far as violets. Yeah yeah, because

(17:45):
ranch does not actively cool the way the blue cheese
also have. The time though, I don't even I'm just
eating like lemon pepper wings and I don't even eat sauce.
I'm like, anyway, I really, I really miss. I'm just
all this to say, I'm realizing I'm doing the thing
in the cartoons where someone just walked by my window
and I envisioned a silver platter of wings all flat,

(18:07):
and that was their head the dog. I'm like, yeah, Kake,
good point. We were wondering why his tongue rolled out
of his mouth and across his keyboard. Uh. I haven't
had an appetite for wings since the Super Bowl producer
Hans saw him at Whole Foods he was buying wings.

(18:31):
I was like, hey, you know what, the wings can't
be that hard to make. I'll get some wings. And
I made such bad wings that I've lost my appetite
for No. I baked them in and like, I think
I did something weird with like putting them on a
rack as opposed to or like the wrong kind of rack,

(18:53):
because they were just like hard and not in like
a crispy way. On grill them on high, get the
nice color on both sides, then move them to one
side of your grill and then turn the heat off
on that side and then just cook them on indirect heat.
And they're really hard to overcook like that, just a
simple on the grill, you know what I mean? But
it sounds like if my mother were to review your

(19:16):
wings as you did the film Cats, her review would
be something just didn't go right, went wrong, very diplomatic. Yeah,
that's that would be my answer. I was the only
one who ate Themfortunately I was so disself. I just yeah,
I ate the bone and all, just off in the corner, well,

(19:39):
talking myself down. Oh that's why your lips were so
cut up that next month, idiot. Uh Kate. Finally, what
is uh? What's your myth? What's something people think it's
true you know to be false? Um, I'm going to
talk about one of my favorite topics, which is the
fact that there is this idea, since we have got

(20:00):
write of physical media and video stores, that every movie
you could possibly want to see is available on streaming
or for rental via streaming, and that's just not true. Uh.
Like last week, I was like, oh, I want to
have a chill Tuesday night and watch The Piano. Um,
you can rent The Piano on iTunes and that is
literally it a movie that has two oscars and was

(20:22):
a huge hit in the nineties. So I ordered some
ten year old like Jankee bootleg or not blueleg Blu
ray of it. That's like, you know, one of those
bad first edition Blu rays, because that's the best way
to see the movie now. But it's you know, I
hope people realize as their home and they're watching things
on streaming that like, yes, there's a lot of content

(20:44):
out there, but there's also a ton of content that's
just not available, and at this point is frankly in
danger of becoming obsolete forever. I mean, the fact that
we've sort of scaled back on physical media production when
there are still movies that never got transferred from vh
ass um or laser disk is insane to me. Uh,

(21:04):
And I think, you know, it's one of those problems
that seems uh, sort of far away from you until
you try to look for a movie that you want
to watch and you find that some you know, nineties
indie movie or eighties team movie that seems like it
should be super available is not available, And then you're like,
what the fuck? And you realize you should have bought
the DVD, or if there was a Blockbuster or other

(21:25):
video stories, you could just go rent the damn thing. UM,
But I don't know. It's interesting. I think, uh, streaming
has created this sort of false, false idea in people's
heads that we should have given up our physical media
libraries and things like video stories, when in fact, we've
given up a lot of content and a lot of
movies are now out of print forever because we just
sort of rushed to streaming. Um. For people who don't

(21:49):
know Kate, you co host the Blacklist podcast with Franklin Leonard,
who was on our show recently. So you know a
thing or two about this film thing. Uh. Do you
think there's a reason why the piano specifically, I have
a very immature theory, But do you do you have
an idea why you think that Harvey, it's not the

(22:10):
most j One more time it'll appear in the room.
I was gonna say huge, I've never seen I've never
seen the piano in that it is famously I think
most people's first thing they remember is like, I think
Anna Paquin may have won an Academy Award for that,

(22:33):
but I know for sure Harvey kit tells Dick is
in that along with Badly, but there's like it was
nominated but did not win. I think Jeffrey Rush and
Quills shows his dills and quills that film is behind.
You have to pay to see that, the same Jeffrey
ushs Penis is in a movie. Yes, you want to

(22:54):
see the Jeffrey Rush dills again, the rhymes, there's quill
and then shame the fast Bender one. Also you gotta pay,
so I wonder if you have to pay to see Peene. Yeah,
it's um. I did a deep dive about sex scenes
in movies last fall, and something I found is that
nudity has really decreased in movies, which is great for
female actors who have sort of been objectified. And you know,

(23:17):
we all sort of remember that, like, oh, and here's
the titty shot in every eighties movie, there's going to
be breasts. There's a titty shot in Uh. I think
that that my I think, I guess favorite agreedist titty
shot is in the beginning of die Hard, there's just
like just a you're just like, what was that? Sure? Yeah,

(23:40):
which one are you talking about? Because there's two within
like a couple of minutes. There's there's the terrorists show
up and a woman runs out of an office without
her and I'm talking about yeah, okay. And then immediately
after Bruce Willis is walking around like avoiding the terrorists,
and I think he there looks out the window and

(24:02):
sees a woman like changing across the street or something,
or he sees or he sees a clipping from like
a porno magazine and it's like Ladies or something like that,
like Galaxy Brain. Nudity of eighties movies is just like
why right, Yeah, it's just like just so you know,

(24:23):
this guy loves naked women. But you know he's just
because they hadn't established that, I guess because they've only
been like fighting with his wife. To the topic here
is guys, dicks in movies, and Kat I'm so sorry

(24:44):
from taking things away from your topic, which was dicks
and movies. Yeah, you know, guys, I have a letterbox
list of commons. Some cinema that's how I'm trying to
help the people. I'm sorry, this is our podcast. Okay,
here's a funny digression on that. A couple of years ago,
I had a friend who was working on I will

(25:05):
not name the franchise, but if you think about it,
I think you will figure it out. One of her
friends was working on the only sex movie franchise of
the last decade, and there was an argument about putting
some male nudity in that movie. Uh So my friend
text me and she's like, Hi, can you put together
of like great dick shots, a list together of great

(25:26):
dick shots and movies so we can like show this
to the team and maybe get some peene in this movie. Um,
Because like I don't know, when I was like a
teenager and stuff, I had like a running tally of like,
oh you see peene in this movie? Um. But I
do think that that could be one major reason for
why certain things are not making the jump. The other
big one is music rights. One of the few ways

(25:48):
that you can get a lot of money out of
licensing songs anymore is when they're in movies or TV.
So a lot of times you will have replacement music
or something that's stuck in limbo because in music, so
with the piano, it could be that they don't want
to pay to relicense the Michael Nyman score. Um, but
it's why when you see like Daria pop up or

(26:11):
The Wonder Years pop up and all the music is replaced,
that's why. Is because its my Joe Cocker. You want right?
It totally like the experience is different. You're like, this
is not the song that played. Yeah, my partner she's
she's a big Dawson's Creek head, and I saw her
watching that. I said, what the fund is this? And
she said Dawson's Creek. I'm like, no, this is not

(26:32):
Dawson's Creek because off brand ship. This is Dawson's Whatever
the funk? I wonder what a Dawson's Creek rewatch would
be like now, like, does a single second of it?
Hold up? Man? Let me tell you, as a person
of color, there's a moment where, uh, fun, what's your face? Joey.

(26:53):
Joey's sisters like dating a black guy and they like
referred it as like her black boyfriend. It's like so like,
ammer fist it in. I'm like, yeah, no, it was
the nineties, What are you gonna expect better than that? Yeah,
I mean, I'm just looking back at the entire course
of history, and I'm like, what are you gonna expect?

(27:13):
I was thinking the other day about how like a
major part of that show that was supposed to be
cute was that, like Joey and Dawson would often sleep
in the same bed, and that was supposed to be like, oh,
that's and then you're just but then like in reality,
James Vanderbyk's characters just has a boner all night, Like
you're just like, that's not romantic, that's weird. Then yeah, yeah,

(27:36):
it was like, yeah, you're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna
sleep with my back to you though, Okay, it's fine,
it's fine, it's fine. As I was looking up the
movie Shame, the cinematographer, his name is Sean Bobbitt. Okay, yes, okay,
all right, we're gonna take a quick break to look
up more Pean shots and we'll be back to report

(27:58):
on that. And we're back, and hey, what's happening in
the news. We're still quarantined, right, my right, guess, so

(28:19):
I guess looks like things still going on unless we're
in the matrix. And this is what the pods look
like when we're plugged into human batteries. Like every we
experienced life through a zoom call. One of my friends
had a great line. She was like, can somebody just
like knock my plug out in the matrix? Can you
just like, can somebody be like mopping and knock mopping
out just like this? No? Like this, it's so hard

(28:45):
to know where we're at anymore with anything we're safe,
We're not safe. We see things from the c d
C defining what's safe only here the White House be
like no, no, no, no, don't don't show people that
because I don't know what's safe is and they'll realize
it's not. Nothing is safe at the moment um. But
you know, right now, like there's the glimmer of hope
in that Governor Cuomo is saying that, you know what,
like May fifteen looks realistic as a timeline to be

(29:07):
be able to begin reopening New York. Um. You know,
twenty six thousand people and counting have passed away in
New York from coronavirus um. And but now, like I
think over the weekend, like it was like one one
and one night. So overall, Cuomo says, like the state
is over the mountain in terms of hospitalizations, intubations, I
see you, admissions and all that. It's all gone down. Um,

(29:31):
so that's been I think for a lot of people,
it's weird. I think a lot of people have been
experiencing this outbreak through the lens of New York without
looking at what is actually happening where they go. Because
so much of the immediate attention is on New York.
I think a lot of people are just mapping that
onto them. They go, well, New York is bad, but
here isn't bad. So I guess that's where we're at.
And I'm still okay. So things are fine. Um but

(29:52):
when you look at the states that are about to reopen,
Cuomo is I think the no. Cuomo is the only
governor who can point to a dec line in these
cases and hospitalizations, like while talking about reopening and like
that was one of the that was one of the
things that you needed, right, was for it to have
been declining for two weeks in a row, and like

(30:15):
New York. Yeah, that was like the CDC guidelines, Yeah,
which we don't we look at all these other states.
We look at all these other states and they're beginning
to really like act like it's all good, Like okay,
New York City opening. That means everywhere else is okay.
It's just hard because yeah, when they anyone looking at
the numbers would see that cases are going up. And

(30:37):
when I talk about sort of like everyone experiencing the
outbreak through the lens of New York, you have to
look at sort of like right now, we're starting to
now see these outbreaks hit rural counties and smaller areas
of the country that we were just weeks behind the
rest of these like massively populated urban centers. Um. And

(30:58):
they're saying a lot of the analysis says a lot
of the needs that voted for Trump in are likely
to begin seeing influxes of cases in this the last
week and this week, so that experience seems to be
catching up other places only now. Um. Yet we're still
kind of like, you know, spiking the football as if
everything's yeah it was. I mean, this is a strange

(31:20):
weekend this weekend because it's you you feel like the vibe,
like whether you're strictly talking to people online or if
you're like starting to see people around your neighborhood. The
vibe is kind of or at least where I live,
it's been kind of changing, and it makes me triple
anxious because it's like we all sort of know we're
not out of it, but people are just so anxious

(31:41):
to get out that it's it's like a self fulfilling
prophecy in a lot of ways. Yeah, the overall number,
like New York was such a huge part of the
national like you know, such an epicenter, and like I
think at one point was like cases were happening there,
and so as numbers have started to fall, like overall

(32:02):
numbers have started to fall. Um, But there was this
post on the medium site Aaron Bromage or Aaron Bromage
dot com. He's a professor at UMass Dartmouth, UH and
he like his area of focus is very specific, like

(32:22):
it's he's not, like, uh an expert or he's not
a doctor, but he does like specifically focus on epidemiological
research and was like from the start of the semester
tracking COVID nineteen as like a project for his class.
So he's been posting on Facebook because apparently he's older

(32:45):
and UH then started doing this blog where he was
like posting just sort of his insights into the numbers.
And one of the big things in this post that
went viral over the past couple of weeks was just
that even though the numbers are trending downwards nationally, like
if you pull New York out of that, our numbers
are still going up as a country, um, which is

(33:06):
really like this whole thing is completely locally oriented. And
that's just I think both from a just like every
day perspective, because we're used to watching like national media
and share like watching uh the same Netflix shows that
people on the East Coast are watching, and you know,
having shared experiences and being able to contact someone in

(33:30):
New York so quickly or like across the country so quickly,
our minds are in a global or at the very
least national like mode. But this is specifically something that
is explicitly taking place in physical space, and like your
reality on in one town slash even like one like

(33:54):
area of town is going to be completely different than
people like across the country, and so it's just it's
almost like a perfect trap to get us to let
our guard down. Um. And then there's also the fact
that the federal government is working with this short term uh,

(34:14):
you know, we got to get the economy back up
and running so Trump can get reelected. I think for me,
like maybe the hardest thing about all of this is
the fact that I've realized that, like many Americans either
can't read a chart or refuse to read a chart,
like just can't look at a growth chart and you know,
understand a concept like exponential growth of spreading, and you know,

(34:39):
I want to believe things like Fox News want to
believe things like planned emic um as opposed to just
you know, like an s a T question. Look at
the curve, Look where the curve is going, Like it's
just sort of horrifying. My parents live in Ohio. That's
where I grew up, and I've been very fortunate that
even as a Republican governor, Mike Dawine has done it

(34:59):
really good job as opposed to some other states in
that region. But yeah, I think the locality is going
to become one of the biggest takeaways from all of this,
Like even just having thoughts of like, well, if I
have to drive home for Christmas to hang out with
my parents instead of flying, I'm happy to do that,
but I do think you'll start to see people you know,
fewer international vacations, more road trips across the USA, stuff

(35:23):
like that. Yeah. Yeah, I've been trying to be better
about because Jack, You're totally right of just like it.
It is so easy to talk to anyone in any location,
and I've been trying to any time I'm talking to,
like whether it's like my family or friends that live
in different states and cities, just like listen to where

(35:44):
they're at first before I start, because it's so easy
to assume we're all on the same Uh, you know,
we're all in the same situation, we're all in the
same wavelength. But it's like, yes, street to street, it
can be an entirely different story depending on what your
circumstances are. And like, I mean, the things in my
area are are slowly improving, but in my hometown it's

(36:07):
like there's an eight o'clock curfew because things are spreading
so quickly. And so yeah, when you're having those conversations,
it's you know, asked the ask the other person where
there at first? Um yeah, yeah, But the thing too,
is this, like even with how you know, these cities
experience at first and the media ends up focusing on
these places again, and we start we tend to live

(36:29):
these experiences through unfortunately, these like media narratives that were
you know, consuming that. Especially a lot of these Trump voters,
who are people who were like, man, like, we just
got to open up, what's the deal? Because of where
they live there, the effects were just completely abstract to them.
It was like they're like, dude, I don't know a
single fucking person with this, what are you talking about?

(36:50):
If I do, I heard it's like upstate and people
don't come through here whatever. And now that it's that
because Trump was like being so casual about it, and
we're arting to see these little clusters in these small,
smaller rural communities and things like that. The experts are
just really wanting to again re emphasize to these people
just because New York is declining, that is a completely

(37:11):
different place than where you live. And also the threat
of your hospitals and medical systems and infrastructure being overwhelmed
by an outbreak are much higher because of where you
are in relation to a larger metropolitan area, and the
resources available are completely different. So it's again it's this
weird thing where people just have to like they're just

(37:31):
only concerned with their own comfort, because I think statistically
the data would be overwhelming, maybe emotionally to say like,
oh my god, I'm at, I'm at you know, I'm
operating at the will of this virus whatever happens to it.
That's what's in control. And I think that's really what
most people rejecting, is this idea that they aren't in control.
And it's like the same thing like back to talking

(37:52):
about watching Fox News or something like when I watch
you know, my team or somewhere in sports, your team
does terribly. All avoid the news because I don't want
to hear them. I don't want to hear the news
picking apart how terrible the performance was of my team.
If anything, I want to go find articles that are
some from pundit saying, you know, even though that was
a loss, here are the good things we actually saw

(38:13):
in this and why the other people, you know, it's
like we do whatever we can to sort of preserve
our you know, perception of having control and things like that.
And I think that's what's really interesting in all of
this is like it's all just about people unwilling to
feel like something bad could happen to them and it's
completely out of their control. Well, well we'll probably return
to uh that professor's kind of writing on the subject

(38:35):
because uh he also debunks like some of the things.
It's not really debunks, but like has some interesting insights
into like how the disease is actually transmitted and like
time spent with somebody as a big yeah, yeah, time
spent with somebody indoors, like that's how they do contact tracing. Yeah,
it's very it's a good article. It made me feel

(38:56):
both better and worse. Yes, I really read that article
and I said, we're never recording a podcast until there's
a vaccine, because the whole thing was saying like by
speaking in close proximity in a not well ventilated area
in a small room, like you're just putting more particles
in the air and you're in the same room for
one hour and it's not properly ventilated. I mean, like,

(39:17):
there are there are things that I'm like being like,
oh my god, Like that's the environment of recording a
podcast in a studio is just like germ fest. Will
I will not die of a hot take. I'll tell
you that right now. She hear lized, Jamie Loft is
she died for the hotake cause of death scorching hot

(39:38):
Take Gods of Death touched face after recording podcast. There's
also another piece of information that's going viral in the
past week when it comes to the pandemic is a
video called planned emmick uh. And you know it's true.
You know it's chuck full of truth because it has

(39:59):
a clever name to it. You can tell, okay, plan
mixed with pandemic boom uh. They can this idea first
done and done Now it's made by a fully disgraced
scientist who's like been who got fired sued for doing

(40:21):
the bad science. Dr Judy Micka bits. One important detail
about who she is is at one point, like after
she had like falsified data, gotten fired, and then like
had stolen data from the lab that had fired her,
she was a living quote out on a boat to

(40:44):
avoid being sued by the lab. Um. So that's the
level of like understanding of how the world works that
you're dealing with. She she thought, I'm on water, therefore
home base can't be sued. Done and done. Oh, she
like had like a maritime sovereign citizen idea in her mind. Yeah,

(41:06):
she was living on a boat to avoid being sued,
and she's like, I only answer to the laws of Poseidon.
That's right, that's right. Um. But she has started writing
books after she kind of got kicked out of the
scientific community. She wrote one with an anti vaccine advocate,

(41:28):
Plague of Corruption, is currently on the Amazon best seller list.
It was written even before the coronavirus outbreak, but her
claims are pretty easily debunked. She claims that the virus
was genetically manipulated, when the scientific consensus is it wasn't.
But the president is, you know, he's like, who knows.

(41:49):
We can't know. We can't know for sure. I mean,
we can't know for sure because science. But I don't
want to know for sure, So who knows? We won't
know for sure. Yeah. She also says that you should
wear a mask because then you're being exposed to your
own Yeah, there's that, And then it's also you're activating
your own virus, which is hard to fact check because

(42:13):
no one knows what the funk she's talking about. Like
that that sounds cool though, Yeah, that sound goes on
in the summer, like yo, activate your own virus. Activittion virus.
Wait by wearing a mask like you're like just some
weird viral feedback loop like that, like Tom's weird bachelor
party in succession. Yes, yeah, exactly. Um, as someone who

(42:34):
aspires to live on a boat and fall off the grid,
this is bad representation. This is a bad representation. Wait
what what would in your mind, Jamie? Why do you
take off to live on a boat to avoid the
laws of our land land loving people. It's not It's
not even to avoid the laws of the land labers.
For me, It's just I've always wanted to live on

(42:56):
a house boat and then not have an Internet connection
and never were here in opinion again except for that
of my seagull friends. What my quirky seagull friends who
bring me forks say, of course, but just one one
misplaced car from them can ruin my day and it
really hurts. It really hurts. I do feel like that

(43:20):
there's something in the zeitgeist with birds are coming coming
for us. That might be me just exposing that I
am have been alone for too long, But I just
keep hearing people like having battles with birds for some reason.
Is it because of the covid bat is covid bat
like patient zero. I don't know, Yeah, maybe there's like
something psychological. Soia was talking about training crows sorrow June

(43:45):
has chickens, and then we found out that those roosters
like can't be around hens, and so like them, you
have sex with the hens. It's like my little kind
of genius. Uh six year old nephew is like has
in the past couple of weeks become obsessed with birds

(44:06):
and like identifying them, and like a good friend of
mine is being uh menaced by a no, a mocking
bird in his friend's backyard. It's like very very weird.
I think birds are like, all right, now now we
have them where we want them, it's our time to

(44:27):
strike hilarious like where us not being out? Like clearly
a lot of animals and wildlife have gotten their swagger
back because people aren't like, you know, fucking in their
neighborhood as much that I wonder if like birds collectively
are like, okay, it's us now we run this ship,
and like when we all come back out, like birds
all have new attitudes, Like pigeons don't fly out of

(44:49):
the street like they're like, yeah, fucking run me over.
Um I'm curious. We'll see. Is I haven't read it
is to kill a mocking bird a advice man? Or
is that does that tell you how to Um, there's
a guy in the back. Yeah, here's that you trapped one. Yeah.

(45:10):
So anyways, like we're saying, don't listen to this non
scientific take by this person, listen to us the guy
who thinks that birds are coming to take over the world.
You can trust me. Yeah, you start going, hold on,
hold on, we gotta stop talking about this coronavirasing guys.
I'm sorry, we gotta talk. I'm you know, and I
get it climate changes on the horizon too, But these

(45:32):
fucking birds. Man really picked a good tangent to go
off on while debunking this anti science take. But the bird,
that's where the real it's the real enemy. Yeah, the skies.
But anyways, millions of people have seen her plandemic video.

(45:56):
Facebook and Twitter and all the regular platforms immediately took
it down because of the mask. Like the mask thing
is basically like shouting fire in a crowded theater. It's like,
obviously you can't do that because you're going to get
people very sick by claiming not that you shouldn't be
wearing a ma ask have you guys. I've been thinking

(46:17):
about it all Like I have been thinking about like
the two thousand five to like two thousand and eight
Internet and how differently the information we'd be getting about
COVID nineteen would be disseminated like in those days when
like you know, we had instant messaging, we had news websites,
but we did not have it was right before social
media hit, so you didn't have this sort of echo

(46:40):
chamber or these like thousands of voices all chiming in.
But I do think about, like had this happened in
like two thousand seven, how different things would be. I
mean obviously at the government level, but just in terms
of like how that kind of info would be shared online,
like just planned DEMI even exist in that environment, right right? Yeah,

(47:01):
I mean if it was a fringe site or on
the sides, like it would be like in the same
circles where like you know, like looking for your like
truth or bids or whatever like plandemic. All right, all right,
because I've had some trippy people try and share some
weird ship uh that was not real at all, And
I was like, oh no, no, no, but like and

(47:24):
from people whose intelligence I respect. But again, I think
it goes back to what I was saying, was like,
I think it's just an exercise in people's ability to
accept what's happening without having to assign some really absurd
like origin story to it, to then just be like, yeah,
science is a thing, you know, because of our interactions
with animals, ship like this can happen. We live in

(47:45):
a fucking global earth now where move people move around,
and yeah, it can lead to something like this. But
I guess it's easier to think some mad scientist is
in a lab like hell bent on like getting everybody
to like watch fucking reruns of Will and Grace or something,
because that's the liberal genda. It's more cinematic there. I
I I tried, like with with the conspiracy like fringe

(48:05):
theory stuff. It's like, if you it's so funny to
picture someone just saying that, like when they're like out
loud and they're like, okay, we're having like a barbecue
and someone's like, all right, so here's my thing with
the fucking birds, And just imagine how quickly you could
silence a table and you're like okay, so that's not
something that's worth pursuing online. If you would silence a

(48:27):
table full of your loved ones simply by bringing it up,
you know, think, think twice. Maybe I've done this. I've
done this as well talking about beanie babies. Recently, I've
silenced a zoom call being like, here's the thing about
beanie babies. Is the thing someone just shared a video
with me about the manufactured demand he created in the market.

(48:49):
It was all of it was a fix. There was
drugs in the beans. Jamie, do you like me, have
hundreds of beanie babies in your parents basement somewhere? My
mom will disclosed where the beanie babies are at. She's
still she still believes in the secondary market. I was
at because I was like getting deep into beanie baby
Lord this past as Jack and Miles No and I

(49:11):
was like texted my mom being like, where did all
your beanie babies go? She's like, I still have them.
I was like, yeah, but where are they? She's like,
I still have them. She's like, what do you like
to know? Yeah, yeah, she was. She still thinks she's
gonna send me to college. Ten years ago on this ship,
this Diana Beanie baby is going to be the only
currency that that goes in the waste lands five dollars.

(49:34):
It's so depressive. Actually, when Jack and I were doing
our live show, we were doing a retrospective on the
year two thousand and we were talking about beanie babies
and I had found an eBay listing at the time
where someone was demanding a quarter of a million dollars
for the for the Princess Diana beanie baby in the
year there worth Like, they're worth five dollars still there,

(49:55):
worth the price they were when they came out. Why
does I have a special rose embroidered on the chest?
It's like the Phantom Menace action figures. We all bought
the Phantom Menace Action figures, being like, do you know
what years Griffey Jr. Rookie card this Jake Lloyd's the
next Marlon Brando. I'm telling you, hey, he still could be.

(50:17):
We don't know. Um, all right, guys, let's take a
quick break. We'll be right back to talk pop culture
and other bullshit. And we're back. And the Last Dance

(50:38):
was back on ESPN last night. I watched it this morning. Um,
Episode seven and eight, What do you guys think Jamie,
did you watch it this time? I did watch it
this time. I've watched it every time. Yeah, you watch it? Okay,
my bad. Did you watch it again this time? Did

(50:58):
you continue the epic dure? Yes, I continue the epic journey. Uh.
This is like we're getting into the zone now where
I was. I was like actually learning things I didn't
know before. I didn't know too much about the details
of the baseball season. I didn't know like, yeah, so
I hear you say that, as if everything up until
this point. You're like, I already know all of this.

(51:22):
What is next? But I knew like the general like
I need a general overview, But like the ninety four
to nineties six, I wasn't as as clear on like
the interlude years or what those were like. I didn't
know a prompted by his father's passing like it was.
It was a really emotional couple of episodes, and then
you see him cry at the end and you're like, man,

(51:42):
he's a real he's a real one. When he's just
it's so drama, but it's so beautiful. I was crying. Yeah.
It's the shot that where he has a drink next
to him and seems like he's a little drunk. Uh
is when he starts crying and the thing he's crying about,
He's like, this is who I am. If you don't

(52:03):
want to play that way, don't play that way. I'm
just a real competitor. Break. It's like, of all the
things that would have made you cry this episode, just
talking about how competitive you are was not the thing
I have my money on. But yeah, the question you say,
break like he was in a huddle with himself, no

(52:25):
like break like stop shooting that. He was just like,
you know, because I get him around and saying this
is who I If you don't want to play that way,
they don't play break because I'm only reading the text.
I haven't seen it. I'm I'm adding my own version
of the show. I like that that would be a
fun edition. So the James Jordan's thing I hadn't realized

(52:46):
like turned into references to the gambling stuff, like right away,
I thought that was more of like a conspiracy theory
that emerged over time. But like the media immediately was like, well,
he has all these like ambling things happening, and then
all of a sudden, his dad gets mysteriously killed the
like and now he's retiring, Like that's all too much,

(53:07):
too so I think he I don't know, like that
that conspiracy theory, which I have at various times been
intrigued by and said was intriguing, I feel less like.
I feel like it's just kind of stupid outsider speculation. Um.
In particular, like one of the details that you learned

(53:29):
in this is that one of the reporters who was
with him during the summer of ninety two in Barcelona
with the Dream Team uh Jordan was like, yeah, I'm
probably gonna retire after next season and go play baseball.
And I was like what. He's like, yeah, I don't
tell anyone, but I'm gonna retire after next season and
U and go play baseball. And the guy was like yeah, okay.

(53:52):
Well and then it happened and people are like, this
must be a conspiracy theory. And the guy was like, now,
that's that's what he was planning to do all along,
And in fact, that was the last thing he was
talking to his dad about before his dad passed away,
was like him retiring and going to play baseball. So
he felt like he owed it to his dad, and

(54:12):
so he started the season off with a thirteen game
hitting streak which I didn't remember before they figured out
he couldn't hit a curveball or breaking ball, and then uh,
he started hitting like ship. But it is like they
constantly yeah, yeah, I think they just didn't know. I

(54:33):
think they generally like mix it up more with like
they would any other hitter. And then but when they realized,
as if you were basketball player has no left hand
and can drible left or like, no, you got no
left bro, Yeah, because he's like by the time you
get to double a baseball, which is like the second

(54:54):
highest of the minor leagues, like the second hardest of
the minor leagues, Like you're facing basically people who don't
have like giant gaping holes in their swing. But like
this is probably the first person that they have played
against who like hasn't played baseball since high school, so
like he's he still has like high school guy issues
with his game. But Terry Francona was his manager, which

(55:17):
is wild, Like Terry Francona, who would eventually win the
World Series with the Red Sox, and he was like
he's the hardest working guy I've ever seen, and like
he would have been a good baseball player. If he
had stuck with it, which is pretty uh like in
high school, if he had, I don't know, like, if
he had kept even then stuck at baseball, he would
have made it to the majors. Um and then, like

(55:40):
you're saying even in him in his like leaving basketball,
that he had actually knuckled down. Francona believed that he
could have, especially when I was watching the baseball portion.
And I'm not I'm not an expert in this, but
like as people were like, actually, he was pretty good
at baseball, he probably could have gotten he could have

(56:00):
been I'm just like, oh, you really cannot make an
honest documentary about someone until they're dead, like you can,
Like I feel like if Michael Jordan's if there was
no chance that Michael Jordan would ever find out, uh
that people were like he was a fine baseball player, Like,
but no one would say that while he's still alive.
When you're doing it for Michael Jordan documentary, Yeah, Terry

(56:22):
Francona goes, oh my, you should have seen this, dude.
He was called him the dead body because he was
stinking it up, and that is sort of the hot
take of the series. That like, he wasn't that bad
at baseball, because the way I went down in history
was that like he was a joke and should never
have been playing. One thing that I hadn't really thought

(56:43):
of was that he like he wasn't starting at the
lowest level he was. Actually they like put him in
a league where he like, by all rights, should not
have been playing double a baseball. Um. And the owner
of the Bulls is the also the owner of the
White Sox, and he's like, yeah, we only stuck him

(57:03):
in the big leagues because we couldn't accommodate him at
the other facilities. And it's like such a bullshit excuse.
They were clearly like trying to set him up for
failure so that he would come back to basketball. I
think did he just play for the Barons the Birmingham Barns.
Was that the only team he played for? Yeah? I
think so. And that was and that was like the

(57:23):
White Sox minor league. Yeah, because I remember I had that.
I had three Michael Jordan's baseball cards because I was
a huge baseball card collect I was like, get ready, dad,
college is on me. Um. Yeah, So that I thought
that was really like it is just such a strange

(57:45):
thing that happened that, like the best basketball player of
all time retired at the height of his powers, went
and played baseball like like it was just a very
very cool episode to see that. And then he comes
back and this is also the episode where the pair
of episodes where you get him like being mean to

(58:06):
his teammates like that kind of is a focus of
the two episodes. They show him like ship talking to
this guy Scott Burrell was like just like a guy who,
like most people forget was even on the team. He
keeps calling him, He's like make this free throw. Ho.
It was like what he calls him a home multiple times.

(58:27):
It's like just such a weird thing to hear coming
out of Michael Jordan's mouth. He's treating him like a pimp. Then,
huh as not a huge sports fan. My favorite part
of these two episodes was seeing the behind the scenes
of Space Jam. There this is the behind the scenes
of Space Jam episode. You get to see that one
incredible shot of just all green screen and people playing

(58:51):
the monstars in green defense on him, and then Michael
Jordan says in the middle like moving his arms and
you're like movie magic look at it. Look at it
was inspiring seeing how like because partially due to space Sham,
he got that like whole court on the Warner Brothers
lot and all this great stuff happened, and like space

(59:12):
Jam helped elevate him back to greatness. I loved it.
That was a really cool detail of the story that
I hadn't known. I like, I read the book version
of this before like two weeks ago, just because I
was so excited about this, and like that whole space
Jam thing was not in there like that that they
have footage miles of. Like he was like, I'll do
space Jam if you build a facility where I can

(59:35):
practice like around the clock when I'm not shooting, and
they like build him this amazing uh like field house
essentially on the Warner Brothers lot, and then all the
best players in the league started coming out and like
practicing with him. And this was after his first like
half season back when he kind of sucked uh like
for him, uh and like had fucked up, and so

(59:56):
he like used it to like scout all the best
players in the league. I'm like check out everyone's game,
like like lure them into his Yeah. Yeah, it's so
it's yeah, it's great. I do even feel like when
I was a kid, I feel like it was that
sort of comeback moment that it was like Space Jam
was a huge deal and was really pushed to kids

(01:00:18):
as being this like massive thing that was going to
bring Jordan's back to the mainstream. Like I remember the
McDonald's toys for it, the usual. They were the like
big I remember had the Lola Bunny and I pierced
her ears. But they were like, this is a big
fucking deal, Like your seven, Jordan is coming back to basketball.
You're getting a fancy McDonald's toy it. Yeah, you know,

(01:00:40):
it's serious. That was the only reason I knew like
the Jordan's the Michael Jordan's myth as a kid is
they it's the first couple scenes of Space Jam where
they're like, and he would go outside every night and
he wouldn't stop shooting baskets. But like they give you,
like the whole legend primer in Space Jam. It's great,
and he wore his old college shorts as underwear there forever.
M the Also, the other amazing thing they have is

(01:01:04):
they take you through the practice where he punches Steve
Kerr in the face and Steve like punches him in
the chest, which I thought would be something that they avoided,
but that like next to that part because they go
from that, because that's like leading into the seventy two
win season when he was like extra motivated and just

(01:01:26):
super piste and Steve Kerrs like he came into camp
frothing at the mouth that year, just like really fired up,
and so they like get into a fist fight, they
make up, and then they go into the beginning of
the seventy two win season and they're playing that Rapture
remix uh the caras one like bad Boy Rapture remix.
So dope. It's like such a great I don't know,

(01:01:49):
the end of episode seven when he's like talking about
how driven he is and like crying and then that
part of episode eight are like the high points of
the documentary for me, and I already loved it, but
these these episodes were great. Yeah, Jamie, you have any
anything you want to No, I I just I like it.

(01:02:10):
I was I'm really It's next weekend is the last
weekend of Jordan episodes, the last last dance. You know,
I gotta he gonna win that he's going to win
the game. He's gonna win the game, feeling guys he
did it. I know he's gonna he's gonna confess, he's
gonna forget that his MIC's on when he goes to

(01:02:30):
the bathroom. No spoilers, no spoilers, but I think he's
gonna win the game, and then at the end he's
going to confess to the murder of punch Steve Kerr
in the face of the bathroom. One thing we talked
about on last week's episode was Craig Hodges was saying

(01:02:53):
that he thought Jordan like specifically cut him out of
the of this documentary series, and I was, well, who cares.
He was like kind of a he didn't play that much.
He wasn't a starter, and apparently so Craig Hodges. First
of all, like his game was way ahead of his time.
He was like the best three point shooter. It was

(01:03:14):
just like a decade before three point shooting was recognized
as like the key to winning a bunch of games. Um.
But he was also like the reason the story behind
he and Jordan's relationship is really interesting because he was
like politically active and during the when the Bulls first
went to the Finals. It was against the Lakers and

(01:03:39):
right after the lap d beating of Rodney King, and
he tried to get Jordan and Magic Johnson to boycott
game one of the finals to like send a message. Uh.
And Jordan was like, you're crazy, and Magic Johnson was like,
that's too extreme, Craig. And then Craig Hodges like after

(01:04:03):
the next year when the riots happened because the police
got off um. Like Craig Hodges basically was like critical
of Michael Jordan's for not ever taking a stand and
he was basically run out of the league. His agent
dropped him. He and like they this article talks about

(01:04:27):
how this article is from like three years ago. Uh.
And the article talks about how this reporter would like
ask NBA players in like two thousand three, like five
years after this whole thing happened, like what like why
they why the NBA players don't take a political stand?

(01:04:48):
And they're like, well, you don't want to end up
like Craig Hodges, who like get got run out of
the league for taking a political stand. Wild too, because
he I mean he went to meet George H. W.
B in a daishiki at the White House and he
had written an eight page letter talking about the plight
of African Americans in this country and was like, apparently

(01:05:09):
there's an also an anecdote that w was there because
you know, he likes basketball too and wanted to meet
the teams, and because Hodges was wearing a tshiki, he
thought he was not American and very slowly was like hello,
and where are you from, sir, And Craig Hodges says,
I'm from Chicago. Heights like straight back at him. And

(01:05:30):
what happened was like later on, you know, people found
out about that letter and he was asked if he
thought the president read and he's like, I don't. I'm
pretty sure he didn't um. And then he was also
like did another interview where he was like Jack was
saying he was talking about seeing these like like Mike
commercials and like realizing that this missed opportunity. And he
was asked about like the lack of black owners in

(01:05:50):
the NBA, and was just very clearly just articulated the
problem with the lack of black ownership, racism in the
n b A, and all this other stuff of of
people failing to address judicial injustice. So that story ran
then twenty five days after Chicago won the next championship,
Hodges was told he would not be offered a deal
and he was only thirty two just days after, and

(01:06:12):
it's just like, yeah, it shows you how effectively activists
can be erased out of a narrative when it just
doesn't quite fit with whatever you're trying to say. Because
I'm not I don't look at this and say, oh
my god, Michael Jordan is evil because he did this whatever,
it would have been a very powerful moment in this documentary.
I think to actually confront this, this back and forth

(01:06:33):
between him and Craig Hodges, and to talk about the
fear he may have had, what he thought he had
to lose by speaking up, what the experiences of him
as a person of color suddenly having a lot of influence,
what you're able to do, what you're scared to do
with that voice, looking at the example of other people
who have taken stance like I think that's a very
very interesting topic to deconstruct because I think that would

(01:06:56):
be very powerful for any person to hear about magic
or Michael being presented with a moment to really do something,
because I'm sure they probably have regrets on some level,
but you don't want to talk about it because it's
messy or whatever. But my god, like, after seeing you know,
reading this, and thank you to the listeners who were
pointing this out just our own blind spots on this,

(01:07:16):
it really was. Yeah, yeah, it's funny. When I when
I watched the o j Doc, the one episode that
I thought they should have included that they did not
include was the episode about how sports sort of turns
a blind eye to domestic abusers generally, and like, wouldn't
it be cool if the Jordan doc had an episode.
I have not watched it yet. I'm excited to watch

(01:07:37):
it where they sort of dug in on like here
are the ways in which the league fucked with everybody
in the nineties. And I've been hearing like snippets that
that's kind of the three line with the Scottie Pippen
stuff and things like that. But you do sort of
wish these docks would sort of take one step back
from the you know, the personal narrative and be like, Okay,
I hear the structures that have failed these people as well,

(01:07:57):
and just I don't know, I feel like it would
give it additional residence beyond the sort of person to
person stories that you hear. I think that's the ransom
though for a producer of a doc series like this,
because the league is going to hold all that footage
at gunpoint and they're gonna say, you want game footage,
you better shut the funk up about any short time
about shortcomings of the league? Can this can be all

(01:08:19):
a spoken word? It wouldn't be airing on ESPN if
they had that kind of access if I feel like
every once in a while it does happen, But it's
like it just needs to be a documentary and that
has like a really good source to stuff. Who is
willing to who wants to funk with the league? But
it's yeah, there's there are like moments in in in

(01:08:41):
any documentaries about like huge organizations where you're just like, oh,
I bet that the director would have wanted to get
more critical there. But then miles like you're saying, like
that would mean that they couldn't use the footage they
need to make the fucking thing in the first place, right,
But I think it's for what it is. I think
as a snapshot, very superficial and like or and even

(01:09:01):
beneath the surface of like this entire saga, I think
is really interesting. But yeah, I think, I mean, I
feel like perhaps there's an entire other documentary where you
get very narrowly about the responsibilities athletes have felt to
speak out, especially when they are you know, like they're
seen as leaders and like outsized figures to vulnerable communities.

(01:09:21):
Mhm h some very superficial uh. Last notes on the documentary.
I just found out that it's still being made, and
I think Michael Jordan's found out where saw some of
it and saw that his eyes looked like ship because
now there are shots where his eyes don't look like
ship for the first time, so big development. And also
at one point, he like his fashion is a real

(01:09:45):
testament to like what, yeah, to what somebody who is
just like has confidence in everything they do, like it
and just goes with all their instacs. Like at one
point he's wearing like a Marty grab bead necklace that's
just like black Marty grab beads, and he's just like
rocking it with the tea. Basically, he dresses like a

(01:10:09):
four year old who dresses themselves. It's right funny. It's
very clear to me watching this dog that the producers
or whoever it was making the movie did not give
any guidelines as to like recommended wear, because there's some
people in it, like I think like a Scottie Pippins
wearing a suit the whole time, but but then like
Jordan's wearing whatever the funk he shows up in other

(01:10:31):
it's like, just if, just if you're doing it, just
show up business casual. You can't go wrong. But everyone,
like some people overshoot it, other people it's it's funny
to watch. I wonder if they had produced every to
be like, okay, Mike, could you wear like a shirt
that isn't mesh this time? It's just Marais on camera.
Bit he's like wearing like a fucking rain slicker with
a mesh Marina and like fucking teams like what is

(01:10:54):
this outfit? Kate? It's been a pleasure having you on
the daily. Zya is where can people find you and
follow you? Yeah? Twitter and Instagram both the same at
it's at that hagend girl but girls spelled like riot girl,
so two ours instead of an eye. Yeah, and uh,
I'm pretty active on Medium and Spotify as well. And

(01:11:17):
is there a tweet or some other work of social
media you've been enjoying. Yeah, I realized I picked a
hard one to articulate because it needs not In order
to understand it, you need uh knowledge of a prior meme.
But that prior meme is uh the picture that many
of us have seen of the white woman at the
chalkboard with the insane baby names. Uh. Somebody photoshop that

(01:11:40):
this week to be Grimes's tweet about her baby name
with Elon musk Uh, and that brought me a lot
of joy. Uh, Jamie, where can people find you? And
what's tweet you've been enjoying? Uh? You can find me Twitter?
Jamie loved his help Instagram Jamie Krir superstar. I'm I'm
gonna recommend a video because we talked space Jam and

(01:12:01):
every time space Jam comes up, I'll go back and
I rewatched Josh Fadom's classic video space Uh so just
a signal boost to space say space Jam two one
of my all time favorite YouTube videos ever. I just
eat the best Warmer Brothers a Warmer Company. It's the

(01:12:25):
perfect video. So I'll recommend that. Wasn't didn't that come
out as like a funnier die exclusive when it first
came out? Maybe? Yeah, it came. It came out like
a couple of years before the Space Jam two was
actually a thing. It's like five years. I just remember.
There's like an added layer of absurdity where it's like
an fo D release. So good, Miles, where can people

(01:12:48):
find you? What's tweet you've been enjoying? Twitter, Instagram, PlayStation Network,
Miles of Grade g R A Y. Also my other
podcast for twenty Day Fiance where we talk about ninety
day fiance. Uh. Some tweets that I like? Um, a few,
my goodness. First one is from Tany Newsome at Trondy
Newman Pass guests and co host of Yo Is This racist?

(01:13:11):
Her tweet is love to cook sick of dishes? Need
recipe using only paper towels and maybe a hair dryer.
Uh that that feels about right. Um. There's another one
from Hannah Goldfield at Hannah Goldfield. I'd like to apologize
for a mean spirited tweet I wrote about people's moms
not being hot. It was a subtweet directed at someone

(01:13:32):
I hate, who I now realized signed on to be
the executive producer of my TV show. We regret the error.
And finally, this was a tweet that my goodness, Zeke
gang member at Rainbow Treasure just tagged us in and
it is a helicopter footage of a protest in Clearwater, Florida,
UM where people are protesting outside of a gym and

(01:13:55):
to do that, they're doing squats and push ups in
the street with signs outside. It's I don't know, God
bless y'all, you know, honestly, man, I'm Chelsea Peretti retweeted
that and was like, thus proving that you can work
out anywhere and not just a very good point, So

(01:14:17):
tweets I've been enjoying. David Rlick tweeted, someone tell Michael
Jordan the coronavirus said it was better than him. Um.
That's one thing that like is a subject of these
episodes is like how he uses petty spites and like
just absurd ship to motivate him in a way where
it like becomes repetitive and you like get the sense

(01:14:40):
of like how boring it must be to be inside
his head, because like at one point, George George Carl
doesn't come over and say hi to him in a restaurant,
and he uses that as like motivation to destroy the
SuperSonics in the finals is like, I mean we went
to you on See Together. I've seen him out golfing.
He's not gonna say hi to me. The guy was

(01:15:01):
probably like, I don't want to disturb the most famous
person in the world right now, I'll just let him
be interesting. Uh. It's like deep, like yeah, he's just
was motivated to greatness by sheer pettiness. You're like, okay,
that's fun. Yeah, and you realize that, Yeah, his Hall

(01:15:22):
of Fame acceptance speech, he just like goes through all
of his like petty grievances against everybody who's ever thought
they were better than him free even like a fleeting
five second period of a game. He just it's it's wild.
And he's like, now, if you'll follow me to the
grave site of a former high school rival basketball player

(01:15:42):
who I will literally dunk on their grave. Also, I
just checked Twitter, and Theresa Lee, frequent guest on Daily's,
like tweeted an hour ago. Has anyone else noticed that
birds in California are bolder than usual? I hear them
all night like they're having it has been they have

(01:16:05):
been louder. I will say they have been louder. I'm
gonna I'm actually gonna tweet you know who we need
to tweet his birds rights activists because birds rights activists
has their proverbial beak to the street. That's right. Uh.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien.
You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're
at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook

(01:16:27):
fan page on a website, Daily zeitgeist dot com where
we post our episodes and our footnotes where we link
off to the information that we talked about in today's episode,
as well as the song we ride out on. Excuse
me getting choked up like my getting Clint. It's a
topic Duran. Duran is neither a Duran nor Duran. Look

(01:16:50):
amongst yourselves, Man, I missed talk with a sketch. What
us sketch, Miles, What are we going to ride out
on today? We're gonna go on a track old Jurassic
five songs that I love from the album Quality Control.
But this is the thing, if you're a big j
five fin this is there was always a track where
a Newmark and Cut chemists will get their own sort

(01:17:11):
of like instrumental like DJ breaks sort of uh slap
together mosaic track. And this is that track from the
Quality Control album called swing Set, and it's just got
a bunch of great scratch scratching. It's got a bunch
of great little breakbeats in there. It's like if you
ever DJ do, you probably listen to song three times
and you could probably go oh yeah because you know

(01:17:32):
all the scratches by Heart, so enjoy this. It's upbeat.
Starts to week right, keep it going. We love you
all all right. The Daily is like you guys are
the production of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is
going to do it for today. We will be back
this afternoon to tell you what's trending and we'll talk
to them by bye. Let me Dad and bad because

(01:18:17):
of the