November 3, 2017 • 46 mins
In episode 20, Jack & Miles are joined by comedian Riley Silverman to discuss myths about trans people in the media, Osama Bin Laden's hard drive files, the women harassed by Trump, the lack of famous women artists, Trump's sleeping habits, & more
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to season four, Episode five
of The Daily Zi Geist. Uh it's the season finale,
you guys, and we're talking about November third, two thousand seventeen.
My name is Jack O'Brien, A K. Potatoes O'Brien, and
I am joined as always by my co host, Mr
Miles Great, Mr Boy Miles A K. Young Bookery, and
(00:22):
we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat
by uh a hilarious stand up, a great writer, a
fashion icon Riley Silverman. Hello, do I need an A
K A as well? Or is that just like you thing?
I mean on the spot? Hit hit me one, the
next doctor boom, yeah, the next doctor. Yeah, I love it. Ryle.
(00:45):
What's something from your search history that, uh you you
believe is revealing about who you are as a human being.
I have been doing a deep dive into random flirtatious
gifts because I am I am entering into a long
distance lation ship with someone and that's been the primary
means of are flirting is is gifts. So it's a
lot of like very specific TV show references or emotional
(01:08):
feelings in gift form. And so I think my history
is just full of weird gifts a lot of Mary
Louise Parker from the TV show Weeds. Frinking ice coffee
seems to be like the number one gift set of
our relationship? Are you all Weeds fans? Well, yeah, and
Mary Louise Parker has this weird and we like she
and I both read on this has this weird like
iconic status amongst like queer women, even though she is
(01:30):
very tragical head of resexual it. But she's just been
in a bunch of different queer like projects or adjacent
to things. And also it's just she just has that
kind of vibe to her. So, yeah, there's something great
about her and Weeds in particular, she just really like
exudes a palpable sexuality. Yeah, and then like they embraced it,
like all the flyers and all the flyers, all the
(01:52):
like posters and billboards were always her dominate trixiek dealers
she covered in like weed and one of them, Yeah,
remember that billboard bare If you're asking me, do you
do you make your own gifts? I don't know how,
And I'm okay with that. Okay, I know it's really easy,
Evan told, and like really easy. A couple times I've
wanted something in gift for him and someone's kind of
like arrogant about it, like you can just make it,
(02:13):
And I'm like, like, for me, it feels like when
someone's like you could change your own oil, I'm like,
you don't tell me how to live right right? Like
why would I do that when someone is already doing
that somewhere. I just like, gifts exist for a reason.
I'm like, I don't want to have to track down
the footage that I'm looking for to make the gift,
Like that's the thing, Like that would be harder for
me than just hoping someone has the gift. That makes
me feel really sad because I sometimes go through painstaking
(02:34):
lengths to make the right gift of like just very
specific things that that's really for an audience of one.
That should make you happy. Man, you are making love
possible between two human beings, Like I guess if someone
really wants like a very specific part of like one
line Tom Sizemore said, and saving private Ryan as a gift,
That's how I expressed my Actually she and I got
together all Riley, what is something you believe to be overrated?
(02:58):
I think I believe it'd be over rated is the
horror film Sleepaway Camp. I'm tired of hearing about it.
I know we're out of Halloween now, but I'm tired
of hearing says gender people tell me how shocking the
ending of Sleepaway Camp was. Yeah, transgender people exist. You
can get over it, like if you were a kid
and you were shocked then and you can remember just
being shocked in fine, but it's two thousand seventeen. We exist,
(03:19):
some women have penises. Get over it. I'm tired of
hearing about it. So the ending of Sleepaway Camp, the
big twist is a reveal that the villain was a
trans woman. A trans woman got it. And it's part
of an era of filmmaking that is kind of referred
to as like trans panic, which is essentially like this.
It's you've got like you got your Silence of the Lands,
(03:41):
You've got your dressed to kill, You've got even like
ace Ventura Pet Detective. There's a whole era of these
movies where trans people or someone who is like a
bad movie version of a trans person is is presented
as this like psychotic killer. And then it's like, oh,
all trans people are disturbed and threatening to us. And
danger us and it really kind of contributes to a
(04:01):
lot of the prentice against us and violence against us.
And it's also just like really like at this point,
it's just it's done. Stop doing it that way, right, Yeah, Yeah,
for sure, I feel really Sleepaway Camp is a movie
that came out. I was no, no, it's like eighties
like okay, okay, but now people are It's one of
the ones that always comes up in conversations about like
horror movies with twist endings, and the only twist like
(04:23):
that's like bulsion. It's like, can we swear? I just
swear like you we we demand it. Um, Yeah, you
haven't hit your quality yet. You have about thirteen mortgage
Oh it's gonna happen. One for every doctor. What's something
you believe to be underrated Joan Cusack Joan Cusa, thank you.
I think John is the superior Cusack sibling. Yeah. I've
(04:44):
been having a lot of Actually I wasn't even sure
this counted is underrated or overrated. But I think there's
a point where we collectively got over John Cusack and
we haven't wanted to admit it as a culture. I
think because like there was a point where he was
like the king of like a certain kind of movie.
And I asked, I asked today on Facebook about John Cusack.
I was, when did we get over him? People, we're not.
And then I was like, name the last John Cusack
movie you saw that, Like you can name off top
(05:06):
of your head that you were excited about. And they're
always like hottub time Machine, which is like seven years ago,
kind of making fun of Yeah, um yeah Joan. And
you know, Joan is like a good utility character actress.
I think that she should be in more things, and
I think she's always people kind of forget how great
she is an Adam's Family Values as Debbie. That's like
pretty much. And then uh, anyway, that's my favorite line
(05:30):
when they go see Uncle Fester and she's completely taken
over his mind. Also, I had a mad crush on
her once. She was in the movie Toys. Yeah, Toys
is also let's go ahead but out in the underrated
Toys is due for a renaissance, Like it is such
a weird, bizarre little movie. Have you never seen it?
I did when I was a child. It's got Dumbledore,
It's got L L cool j. It's got Robin Williams.
(05:52):
It's got Joan Cusack. It's like this bizarre, weird movie
that's like and it kind of like pre predicts draw
like basically like little kids like being able to fight
wars just from there the safety and comfort of their
video game chair. Right. I loved it too. And also
I've mentioned this. This is a complete aside, but in
in Toys, l cool J doesn't like his food touching
(06:14):
and he says that a lot it infected my mind
as a kid, and I that's why to this day,
I don't like salad on my plate with other things
like if I have salt has been a separate plate.
Thank you all cool Ja, Thank you toys. And you
came in. When I came in, you were camouflaged as
a couch exactly. I ordered a mannate sandwich. So he'sn't
really working out for us. That is multiple toys references
on this podcast a toys podcast, all right, I'll take it. Uh,
(06:39):
there's enough things happening in toys that I could probably
do a podcast and like spend each episode like ten
minutes of that movie. It is a bizarre Okay, that's
all the toys. I'm sorry. And esthetically it was beautiful,
like the set design. I'm just I'm all about toys movie.
Let me look right now, you got it right in
front of them. Yeah, because I was just looking at
Joe cues X. That's a very very Levinson kind of
(06:59):
like twisted dark comedy vibe. Another occasionally great hot and
cold director. All Right, I believe that people both know
you Riley by now and know a lot about the
movie Toys. Uh So, real quick, before getting to the
stories the daily zeitgeist, we are trying to take a
sample of the ideas that are out there changing in
(07:21):
the world, whether you're looking or not. We talked about
the politics and the news. We also talk about movies
and supermarket tabloids. Uh so, uh yeah, we're just trying
to take the temperature of what's affecting the national shared consciousness.
Uh And before we get into it, uh, Riley, we
try to sample the zeitgeist, but sometimes we take the
(07:45):
opportunity to correct the zeitgeist. And you touched in you
are over under on like some trans myths. But are
there any other trans myths that you didn't get to
that are just uh annoying to you as a trans woman,
Like in terms of how trans people are treated or
(08:05):
portrayed in movies, TV, etcetera. Yeah, I think the big
one still is this idea of like that it's okay
to cast a sis male actor to play a trans
woman in a movie that seems to be the biggest,
most prevailing and still happening thing it feels like. And
I think I think there's this myth that I think
people still kind of see a trans woman as a
man who wanted to become a woman, as opposed to
(08:26):
a woman who was born and misidentified as a man.
I think most people when they try to imagine themselves
as trans or to understand the trans experience, go oh,
I don't know what I would be like if I
wanted to be the other gender. But the way I
think the better way to view what being trans is
like is imagine you are the gender you are right now,
but no one believes you, or like no one sees
(08:46):
it but you. That's what being trans is like. Like
I've always identified, I've always seen myself as as a girl,
as a woman my whole life, and as a kid
people saw as a boy. So it was like that frustrating,
like how does that? How does no one else see
that is like that's very different than like going boy,
I wish sure like to be a girl, if that
makes sense. So that going into casting, when you keep
(09:08):
casting men to play trans women, you're basically casting men
to play women. And so then there's always this like
um argument about it where people will say something like, well,
any actress, you will play any role, and like it
only seems to get applied to that particular kind of topic.
But I think that like that's it's still kind of
(09:29):
predicates stuff. Only the idea that being trans like costing
you can put on and like you would never unless
you were trying to make a specific point about identity
or gender, you would never cast a sis man to
play a says woman in something, unless you're doing something
like Louis Anderson on Baskets where it's like kind of
meant to mean something or be like it's like kind
of just kind of like a bit of like a
(09:50):
storytelling thing happening with that. You you wouldn't just randomly
do that. So it's it's got to be viewed more
like that, And I think that's the number one issue
because what happens with that then people see, let's say
Jared Letto or Eddie Redmain playing a trans woman and
something and then they go, oh yeah, and so then
when they like people would say instance data trans woman
(10:11):
and then like other people find out because typically the
argument about trans woman's like this, like like why we
get murdered at higher rates is this idea that we
are tricking people into thinking that we're women and then
they I found out used to be a guy. Like
That's that's why that point of view is so destructive
because it implies that way of a history that we're
(10:32):
hiding as opposed to being ourselves and our true identity.
And I know, like a lot of like this is
like Jen Richards, who is a transactress and a really
really good advocate for this kind of stuff, talks about
like men that she's dated who knew she was trans
but didn't want to be public with relationship because they
didn't want their friends. I think she was like dating,
like like they were doting, like Jared Letto or whatever,
like they go and want friends, think that I'm dating
(10:53):
Dallas fires Club and that kind of thing, and that
can lead to murders and violence against us, and especially
people transform of color, who are usually much more marginalized
by society. Um, and this is I know, a laugh right,
Um no, but it's but very valuable, I think. And really, yeah,
that that is something that hadn't totally occurred to me.
(11:15):
And the whole thing is like, I don't think men
really do kill trans women when they find out that
we're trans. Like the portrayal is, I think they kill
us when they when their friends find out that we're
I think it's less less their discovery of us and
more the shame of being caught quote unquote. Well that's
interesting because I feel like even growing up right like
on like this shitty talk shows like Jerry Springer, you
would constantly see that happen where a woman would reveal
(11:39):
their gender identity and then the dude just flips out.
And I think that, yeah, that that that that exact
thing sort of embodies that sort of same sentiment of
of just sort of like, oh well, no, I'm on
this show knowing so to reaffirm my masculinity, I'm gonna
you know what I mean. You know It's funny is
when I was still a young and like closeted comic
living in Ohio, I had some friends who end up
(11:59):
getting book to do a segment on the Jerry Springer
Show and it was fake and they just cast people
to play the people that were on the thing, and
they actually wanted me to play a young man who
found out that his girlfriend he was cheating on his
other trans and like, I'm like, oh my god, I'm
so glad to go do that. Like I'm so glad.
I Like, I just I kind of feeling that driving
to Chicago to do with Jerry Springer Show wasn't the
(12:20):
best thing to do for my career. And I'm like,
to this day, I'm like, I'm so glad that it's
like not footage of me somewhere, like yeah, um, well,
this has been very enlightening. Mostly that the Jerry Springer
Show is fake. I never could have seen that coming, right.
People are surprised also, I mean, if if you ever
(12:41):
seen an actual fist fight, that's not how people think, right, Um,
and uh, just really quickly, I mean you mentioned how
high the murder rate is for trans people. That's something
that when I when I found out that, I mean,
it's basically the most dangerous demogra ethic to we have
(13:01):
the highest murder rates and we have one of the
highest suicide rates, and that's the thing that gets used
against us, which is really unfair and like really destructive.
People try to use our suicide rates against us to
like imply that we're mentally ill and like disturbed. But
it's more that we have high suicide rates because we're
so frequently persecuted by society. Like I remember somebody who
was making the argument trying to imply that we were
(13:21):
like disturbed, was like, oh, it's the same rates as
Holocaust survivors. And I'm like, well, that's not a mentally
ilk group. The Holocaust survirus survived the Holocaust. That's your
that's you, that's your baseline. Then look at the look
at what was happening happening to us, Like it's just uh,
it's it's really important bring us up right now because
November is actually Transgender Awareness Month, because we actually do
(13:42):
on November twenty around the world, there's International trans Day
of Remembrance, and what we do is we literally just
read the names of our community members and our family
members who have been murdered in the last year. And
it's like a somber and like really empowerful. And so
if you if you're a person who is interested in
being like a good ally to the trans community or
like really kind of understanding the weight of what we
(14:03):
face every every day. Uh find out when one of
these visuals is happening in your town, like like Holly,
would we do it at the West Hollywood Library And
there's lots of security, So I just don't don't come
to you want with your kick, but yeah, in March
with us, we would like to have support and how
people know that we're not alone in those That's awesome. Thanks, Um,
I'll be funny from now one, all right, us to promise.
(14:26):
Uh so let's move on to the stories real quick.
Before our break, we wanted to mention that Osama bin
Laden's computer files were released onto the Internet and uh
we were able to see the file names and uh
(14:46):
they were occasionally really funny. Um, oh my god. There
was a lot of crocheting videos. Uh. There were a
lot of children's movies ants Are You Sage? Uh, Ice Age,
Dawn of the Dinosaurs and cars. Uh Ann's Fields especially
(15:06):
fun to me because well he's not as fun anymore,
but Woody Allen is the lead in that movie. So
I love the idea that of bin Laden is watching
this movie that's like a very like stereotypical Jewish man.
Obviously we'll get to go out on a little bit later,
but yeah, we always do. We always do get to
Woody Allen a little later. Uh. Some of the crocheting
(15:28):
videos the Art of Crochet, how to Crochet a basket stripe,
Crochet Beaniecap, and Crochet Star. Uh. Probably this uh kind
of most mind bending file that was on his hard
drive was he had loose change the like nine eleven
Truther or conspiracy was viewing for any stoner in college,
(15:50):
like whoa, what if? Right? Which it's must have been
like a way more extreme version of how Chuck Berry
must have felt when he watched back to the future
for the first time, just him seeing someone else take
credit for his his damn work. Um. And I mean
some people are saying that, uh, you know, a lot
(16:13):
of this could have been of children who were with
him in the compound, or his wives or you know,
any of the people who were in there. But some
of it was like erotica. There was one file called
s Dot Gift, I believe many sas and poor Uh
(16:36):
it's actually just merely his Parker dreaking ice coffee though exactly. Uh,
you just gotta search skiff and see see what's out there. Uh.
And there was also eight bit video games that were
like adult video games from back in like the like eighties,
like Pixelated Nude Women, where you would just do like
(16:58):
the most menial task like raw around to reveal this
non human woman. Yeah, it's a yeah, just like Larry
that was the big like eight bit porn game when
we were where it was like King's Quest but getting
laid in exactly. It just shows you, man, it must
have been boring as fun to be in that compound hiding.
(17:19):
You know. I wonder if, like just if the crocheting videos,
if I don't know, maybe bin Laden was really trying
to step up his crochet game. Maybe it's what he thought.
How did they make those vests? They have those vests
in those yeah little know in fact those are all
homespun by bin Laden himself. Uh. And like yeah, I
think he's just funny. Like there was Final Fantasy Games,
so there's there was something for everyone. If you like porn,
(17:40):
you're a nine eleven truther, we're all finding that maybe
we have something in common with Oshama. Yeah, it's just
funny to think that when he was watching all those
documentaries wondering like where bin Laden was, Uh, he knew
himself that the answer was in Pakistan, masturbating to eat
bit representations of naked women. It's a good life. It's
a good life, I guess. So it's a proud life.
(18:03):
All Right, We're gonna take a quick break and we'll
be right back. And we're back. So I wanted to
talk a little bit about what's being called the Weinstein effect, Uh,
sort of the spreading realization that, uh, famous men, a
(18:28):
lot of famous men are fucking creeps. Uh. We've got
Spacey Ratner Toeback Hoffman, uh Dustin Hoffman. Uh apparently on
a TV movie. Did we talk about that yesterday? On
a TV movie? Sexually harassed as seventeen year old young woman? Uh,
(18:49):
Jeremy Piven Price from Amazon, Halpern, who was the head
of politics at ABC News. And George H. W. Bush
even though he was brought out at the Houston Astros.
Was it like game three or something? Yeah, one of
them though the first page. They're still cool with them,
just like they were still cool with that Gurio game.
(19:11):
A little slanty gesture that I'm not bitter. Uh, but yeah,
cool Houston, nice work. Uh So, yeah, it seems like
there's never been a time when the world was more
receptive to women calling out powerful men who have abused them. Uh.
(19:31):
But nobody's really talking about the most powerful man uh,
Donald Trump, unless you count the people and Donald Jrs.
Mentions every time he gloats about a new Hollywood big
wig getting named. But yeah, Trump's accusers have told The
New York Times this week that, uh, they feel like
(19:52):
the country has forgotten them, and they have good reason
to feel that way. Uh. And it's probably worth just
remind finding people what he's been accused of. Kissing Miss
USA pageant competitor on the mouth, um when she was
not looking for that, groping fellow passenger on a flight
(20:14):
several decades ago, kissing receptionist working in Trump Tower in
two thousand five, groping contestant on The Apprentice in two
thousand seven. And then we have him bragging about how
he grabs women by the pussy. Uh and he doesn't
even have to ask, because when you're a star, that
(20:35):
just let you do it on tape. Uh. So yeah,
I don't know, it's a it is interesting that he
is apparently not like this isn't even being brought up.
Really for the most part, as people are talking about
these the Hollywood elites who are being kind of taken down,
(20:56):
well it's you know, Weinstein goes down him because his
entire industry rejected him. They said, yo, funk that this
is bullshit. We we can't have you be a part
of this. So that that's how Weinstein has to Actually
that's that's he actually experiences some form of a rejection
or punishment. Trump, on the other hand, when that Grabbed
by the Pussy tape came out, there were maybe a
(21:17):
couple of people who dropped their endorsements of him, but
there was no across the board GOP saying, you know,
this is not cool. We're not about this. Get rid
of them, because if you really think about it, if
they did that, Hillary Clinton would have won most likely
when considering the how narrowly Trump won. If the GOP
really came out and said, you know, this is not
what the party is about. We can't have someone like
(21:38):
disrepresenting us, especially not to be president, that would have
been a real problem for them. And I think it
also shows like partisanship has this kind of a lot
to do with why that is because even now Republicans
are still very reluctant to call Trump out for any
number of things that he's done. Is but the only
it seemed like the only people that are willing to
say anything are the people who have nothing left to gain,
(22:00):
which are the outgoing like congressmen and senators. Those need
to be the only people who because they're not they're
not affected by whether or not the GOP power structure crumbles.
They're just now they're willing to say something. Do you
need something too about liberal groups being more willing to
kind of eat or like, there's always the argument that
liberals like will devour own tails when it comes to
like social justice things like that, So I wonder that's
(22:21):
part of it. Like I think that liberals are much
more willing to be publicly divisive amongst ourselves, and so
with someone like Weinstein or whatever, no matter how much
money he's donated, like our candidates or whatever, we're still like, like,
we will tear down our idols all the time, and
sometimes to our detriment. To where we can't like win
elections is easily because we can't rally behind a common figure.
(22:42):
Like I always say that Republicans or like conservatives will
rally behind the like ten percent of things they do
agree on, whereas liberals we will always like terry to
or apart about the temper cent we don't agree right in.
And that's like, that's what I saw last year at
the election, to even outside of the sexual harassment stuff. It. Yeah,
and I do wonder that that's a really good point.
(23:03):
And I also wonder if, like I had read this
article that was really sort of deep dive into a
single community in Colorado, uh and sort of how the
two thousand sixteen election went down there. And one of
the most surprising things was there was this group of
(23:25):
women called Women for Trump that really got involved in
the community, uh, you know, doing voter outreach and um,
they actually formed the day after the Access Hollywood tape
came out. And there uh point or like their thesis
was that they were tired of the liberal media telling
(23:47):
them how they were supposed to feel about, you know,
sexual politics. And well that's part of the Trump effect
in general. I Trump Trump has figured out how to
play conservative fatigue over liberal outrage like a fiddle, and
so he continually while in office and even beforehand, would
(24:08):
say inflammatory things that people will get up in arms about,
oftentimes very rightfully so. But because it happens so often,
he can do it so frequently and on so many
topics that everybody who reacts to it, people who who
have any sort of inclination of like I'm tired of
the PC police or whatever, can go, yeah, we're sick
of hearing about it. We're tired of and so they
(24:29):
almost like revel in the way that he baits us
and the way that he taunts us. And it's this
frustrating thing as a person who cares about als with
justice or a person who cares about like rights and
equality of like, well, we can't just let things go.
But we also, I don't know yet how we even
react to stuff without also then making it worse for us,
Like it's it's such a frustrating game of chess. And
(24:50):
and yeah, it's easy to do because whether it's allegations
of sexual assault or obstruction of justice or whatever it
is is it's just another thing again that people it's
easy if you are Trump supporters just say oh there, well,
that's just another thing they're trying to like what is
it this week, what's the big Trump complete this week?
And it's easy to just to dismiss it like outright,
(25:12):
and I think again because like the sort of part
is an angle of it all too. It's it's hard
to to sort of embrace that or or to embrace
the truth and say, oh, this is this is really wrong.
And if you also look like the women who supported Trump,
I think he got sixty one percent of the white
women without college degree vote, and that is a group
who just if you look at polling, like on a continuum,
they're growing more conservative in the in the in recent years.
(25:36):
So to even have, like you know, to to have
that group of women as your supporter base, that's not
going to do much for him to be held to
any any form of anything that resembles accountability. Didn't Trump
get most of the white women, of white women, of
white women, white women overall, yeah, of overall, and white
(25:57):
women without college degrees, and that's that the one without
college agree he is the one that is continually getting
more conservative. And again I think even now we don't
talk about the misconduct after the fact, because at the
end of the day, he was elected president and so
that basically the America co signed that and said, well,
I guess that's not a problem because it was enough
(26:17):
for him to become president and a lot of the
stuff that was being rallied against him got dropped, Like
the case the underage assault case that he was that
was like being built up and like it was going
to courts, and then he got elected. I don't think
anyone thought he was gonna win, and so he had
like court dates set and then the day he was elected,
then like suddenly that disappeared because the victim didn't want
(26:38):
to come forward anymore. Right, I should have said that
those uh examples, they are just the examples that people
are still willing to kind of accuse him of. Um.
And that's kind of the thing with the Weinstein Weinstein
case too, is that Weinstein's case, it's not like it
just happened overnight, Like Ronan Farrell had like a like
a months and months long investigation into this that he
could come forward. And I think, like that's the problems
(27:00):
you with the Trump stuff is like we have these
scattered reports to come forward. We don't have anybody who's
just going like, here are all the things that we
need to say, you know, um, and I guess during
the election, many people did come out to accuse Trump
of sexual harassment, and at the time, at every rally
is like, oh, these people are lying. They're just trying
to smear me for the campaign, and it was it
(27:21):
wasn't taken seriously because if again from a partisan angle,
it just seems like it's like a smear, like if
you believe in the conspiratory liste, Like, oh, whould they
pay to say this this week? Is the mentality of
some people who were so dismissive of these accusations. And
he plays in those conpiracy theory things all the time.
So yeah, and I mean, I guess just to play
a devil's advocate. Uh. The whole country kind of by
(27:43):
by the end of the Lewinsky scandal was kind of
ready to move on and we're like, yeah, okay, we
get it. He got a blowjob from an intern. Uh,
you know, let's move on. And he's doing a good
job and the economy is strong. Uh when when it
was a Democrat, Uh, that that's handle just Uh. I
talked about how the movie American Beauty, Uh, well, when
(28:05):
I first saw it, I was, you know, an adolescent kid,
and so it wasn't as creepy to me, um, because
I was younger than the like high school girl that
Kevin Spacey was lusting after, the same thing with the
Lewinsky affair, like she was like twenty two or something
that you know, someone was talking about recently on a
Facebook thread that I was in and about how different
(28:28):
I think we would have viewed that entire affair in
seventeen versus in the mid nineties when it happened, because
to think about how phillinized Monica Lewinsky was by the
culture when she really was just a young kid who
was like seduced by her very very very powerful boss.
And like how like you know, Lensky has said that
like for a long time, like her mom wouldn't let
her close the door watches going in the bathroom because
she's afraid she would kill herself. Like it was like
(28:48):
that she was being tormented by the media and just
like being viciously bullied all the time and now and
if I think that if if she came forward, she
would get at least a little bit more respect, at
least have a camp that was way more on her
side than before it really hope, So you know, I
mean who knows, but well, yeah, and I think again too,
(29:09):
with the fact that with Trump being elected president, that
that only reaffirms his worldview that well, look, I can
do that and it's it's not a problem, and you
can see that, and how he's like rolling back Obama
era sexual assault guidelines or transgender bands and things like that.
Getting elected is like the worst thing for someone who
has done something the kinds of accusations he has facing him,
(29:30):
and yeah, been being electable, Like there's no reason for
you to think that there's anything wrong with anything you've done. Yeah,
he thinks that he's been proven completely right, right, and
it's almost an he won on a because tour college.
He didn't win by popular vote, but like he doesn't
always seem to really want to believe that or understand that,
and so he in his mind thinks, like I am
(29:51):
on the pulse of the American people, and they believe
what I believe, and or at least that's what he's
telling himself. So I want to talk about one of
these accusations that is isn't getting as many headlines because
the person is not uh that famous, but the publisher
of the magazine Art Forum, uh his name is Knight Landisman.
(30:17):
Uh is being accused of sexually harassing a young woman
named Amanda Schmidt. Um, and the details are really pretty
gross uh and horrifying. And uh, I don't know. So
art Forum is apparently the the magazine in the art world.
(30:38):
It's kind of like where where people go to, you know,
decide if artist is worth a damn And um, I
think I assumed that the art world was like progressive
when it comes to the sexual politics, just based on
the content of you know, what cutting edge avant got
(30:59):
gard art is about. And yeah, I thought it was
all like Maud from Big Lebowski. And you know, it
turns out it's still got a lot of problems. Um.
This uh feminists critique of art history called why haven't
there been any Great women artists? And uh, it's just
(31:23):
this amazing essay that examines the history of sexism in
the history of art. Uh. The writer talks about all
the different ways that institutionalized sexism made it so that
women like couldn't be considered great, couldn't practice the art form,
like they weren't allowed to paint nude models because it
(31:44):
was deemed unladylike just excelling at a single skill was
deemed unladylike parents weren't gonna let their daughters be painters. Um.
So she just makes this argument that uh, you know
that question, which I think was being asked more when
she wrote it. She wrote the essay in which I
(32:04):
probably should have set up. Okay, yeah, I thought you
were saying that this guy who got who stepped down,
was the one who published it. Like, well, there's plenty
of examples of of monstrous men who have been vocally
in support of feminism until they get caught being a harasser. Right,
so I guess it's just And actually the editor in
chief of the magazine has stepped down. It is a woman,
(32:28):
and she just was like, I can't you know, support
this uh magazine, this publication anymore. Um. But it's it's
interesting to me to kind of examine, like to take
another look at the art world and you know all
the ways that even though it is sort of this
cutting edge cultural thing, uh, you know, it has been
(32:53):
very dominated by white men, just as much as you know,
other industries and like Wall Street and ship like that. Um.
You know, there there's this group called the Guerrilla Girls,
and they've been working sort of anonymously for years too,
basically exposed, as they say, and they're in they're like
(33:13):
mission statement, like gender and ethnic bias as well as
corruption and everything from politics, art, film, pop culture. So
one of the campaigns they did was throwing up stickers
about the lack of uh, one person exhibitions that were
put on by female artists in New York. So the
Guggenheim didn't have any, the Metropolitan didn't have any, the
(33:34):
Modern had one, and the Whitney didn't have any. And
then in TWI, in terms of women who are having
one person exhibitions in in the top New York City museums,
the Guggenheim had one, the Metropolitan had one, the Modern
had two, and the Whitney had one. So even in
what is the thirty years, that is incremental change. You know,
my dad is an artist, which is why I'm sort
(33:56):
of waxing on about this, and and he's and he's
a he's black man, so he's sort of had to
confront the art world head on and things like this. Uh,
you know, the power still concentrated in men's hands, but also, uh,
there a lot of the collectors they still value men's work.
By far. So they and essentially collectors are the ones
that assigned the value to art because they're telling you
what they what they think this piece is worth paying for.
(34:19):
And now in the last twenty years, there are more
female curators and that's a step in the direction, but
there's still very much a huge problem of representation, like
within the art world. Um, and I guess you know,
who knows what it's going to take to break that.
And I think even when you think about in the
article and asks like who are the great women artists?
I'm not a huge art expert, but if if you
(34:41):
asked me to say, name an artist, I would probably
say a male artist immediately, you know, or even if
you asked young kids, they say like Shepherd Ferry or
Banksy or something like that. You know, if if you
said name a prolific female artist, I would have trouble.
I would say Georgia O'Keeffe and then I would begin
really having to think then, like, you know, I couldn't
(35:01):
just list them down like that. And I think that
is also very indicative of kind of what even the
people who might not be totally into the art scene,
that how little exposure we actually have. Two female artists
in general. Yeah, the the fact that collectors, you know,
the rest of society sort of bleeding into how artists
(35:22):
are valued in that way, like the fact that you know,
many of the richest people in the world are still
white men, is probably has a huge effect on that.
Um I was gonna say that. The other thing is
too is not unlike like comedy or or any sort
of entertainment kind of thing. A lot of it is
is who you know and who knows you to bring
(35:44):
you into the fold. And that sends to be people
tend to have this like intrinsic bias about like there's
a term for it, but basically like oh, I know
these guys, I'm gonna bring them in, you know, and
that like that's like there was an article just came
out this week about the lack of people of color,
especially women of color, in the writer's room and television
and how I think right now was something like less
(36:06):
than four percent of writers for TV shows are people
of color. And how like like on Hulu, of all
of whose original series, not a single writer as a
person of color, and like that's that's like a huge,
huge gap in representation. And it's because so much of
like TV. Right. Again, the industry you would think from
service value is super liberal and super inclusive, but when
(36:27):
you actually look at the numbers, they don't hold it
upright because, like art, it has gatekeepers that you have
to get past. And I guess all industries have gatekeepers,
but some are just easier to get TV and movies
especially like you need a shipload of money to make
those things. And so unless you're one of like an
anomaly of a person who can start on YouTube completely
(36:49):
self started, and then and just by virtue of your
audience being so big, they pull you into the mainstream
like Ray has exactly. Uh great, we're gonna take a
quick break and we'll be right back, and we're back. Uh.
(37:12):
And we should acknowledge that the three of us are
not like experts on art by any means. Our superproducer
Nick Stump pointed out that there is a great artist
name Louis Bourgeois. Uh and uh, she actually came came
around like around the time of Jackson Pollock and Mark Rothko,
(37:34):
and she thought that Uh. She pointed out that surrealists
made women the object of their art, and she was
trying to make women the subject of art. But that
is Uh, that's a big change, and I didn't realize
how big a change it was before uh that conversation.
So get off my back, Nick, I mean mail gay
(37:57):
as a term comes from from art. Comeat bo show. Um.
So in our remaining time, I wanted to talk about
Donald Trump's sleep schedule, you guys, um, and just sleep
in general, because so he Bragg's constantly about only needing
(38:21):
four hours of sleep a night, um, which I guess
Margaret Thatcher was the same way, she said she only
needed four hours of sleep at night. I think Obama
was too. I think that was something he came aout
during his presidency. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of
presidents don't get that much sleep, but Trump, like forever
(38:42):
has said like why he barely needs that much sleep? Um.
But if you look at his tweets before people started
taking his phone away, when he like left the Oval
office at night, like went up to bed, Uh, he
did send out some of his more erratic I guess
(39:02):
you could say tweets uh in the middle of the
night like Uh. That there was also the so there
was first of all, the despite the constant negative press
cove Fay Fay tweets came out of the title the
night Uh there was Uh did crooked Hillary helped disgusting
(39:23):
check out sex tape and passed Alicia and become a
US citizens so she could use her in the debate. Um.
And you know, a bunch of you know, a bunch
of hateful stuff about Megan Kelly. Uh. And you know,
he he just a lot a lot of his most
famous Twitter tirades from during the election came and afterwards too, yeah,
(39:45):
after you and UM. It's just interesting because it seems
like I don't know, I wonder what, like if there's
something about you know, the fact that he doesn't sleep
is is strange, Like he's sort of almost this alternate
(40:06):
type of person who like lives by this alternate sleep schedule. Um.
And that there are like, for instance, there's there's a
type of I guess most dolphins, but they're in particular
these spinner dolphins that I saw when I went to
Hawaii back in June. I saw like we were out
(40:29):
on a boat and these dolphins came up and were
like playing and uh, you know, swimming alongside the boat.
And the captain of the boat was like, yeah, they're
sleep Actually they just never sleep like we do because
they would get eaten or drown. Uh, So they sleep
with like one part of their brain at a time,
And um, I don't know. Experts on human sleep talk
(40:53):
about how you know, you don't fall one to sleep
and then like wake up one percent. There are moments
of like partial sleep. Parts of the brain can go
offline for periods of a few seconds to thirty seconds. Um,
there are things called micro sleep where you just slip
(41:14):
up and you know. They've actually studied people who are
like train engineers and found that they are like will
occasionally be asleep when they thought they were awake the
whole time. A lot of people, Uh have you even
been seen to fall asleep for three to five seconds
(41:35):
and just not realize it at all and then swear
up and down that they were awake the whole time. So, UM,
I don't know. It's just worrying to me to to
think about this idea that, Um, we have a guy
who twenty four hours a day has access to a
button that can end the world, and uh, you know,
(42:00):
at night he appears to become this different, uh sort
of less responsible version, which is tough to become like
more erratic and less responsible. But um, you know this
guy who like never sleeps, and I don't know that
people have studied that much, these people who only need
(42:22):
four hours of sleep at night. But um, I also
wonder too if he actually has that condition or if
he saw it somewhere and thought that's impressive. He makes
himself only sleep four hours so he can pract about it,
and his body is like raggedly going, what are you
doing to us? Well? Could it could explain like when
he goes off prompter in speeches and he just starts
doing his trump freestyle jazz. Uh, just like stream of
(42:45):
consciousness talking like in some fugue state the entire time. Yeah.
And I mean a lot of people point to different
behaviors as being similar to dementia, and lack of sleep
is really connect did to Alzheimer's And it's a like
to uh kind of symbiotic relationship or whatever. The bad
(43:09):
version of symbiotic is where parasitic relationship, where Alzheimer's both
causes and is caused by lack of sleep, and so
it's you know, just a vicious cycle. Uh. So I
don't know, it's I don't I don't have any solutions
to it, but it's just something I guess to keep
(43:29):
an eye on, like the time stamps on his tweets
and uh, you know, general Kelly, if you're listening, like
I know you do, Uh, maybe just keep an eye
on him. The biggest trump is the lack of compromise
with the sleeping So you don't know what Kelly can
come in and compromise his sleep better, right, right exactly,
remember anyone who hates his presidency more than him. That's
(43:50):
the thing. It's weird about it, Like, I just I
don't like at this point, I'm like, how bad is
your ego that you just need to stay here because
you really don't want to be here. You're mad at
everything all the time. It's and the answer is so bad.
His ego is so bad. Riley, thank you so much
for joining us. Thanks for a lot of fun um.
Where can people follow you? On Twitter? I am at
(44:11):
Riley J. Silverman And if you go on Facebook, I
have a Facebook page Rally Silverman. And I'm also Raley
Silverman on Instagram. And I am the head writer for
a podcast called International Waters on the Maxi Fun Network,
and I'm a writer for sci Fi Wires fangirls page awesome.
That sounds those all sound wonderful. Uh, Miles, where can
people find you? You can find me on Twitter and
(44:33):
Instagram at Miles of Gray and you know, shout out
to Dan O'Brien corrected me the other day. I said
attorney generals, and I yes, I am aware, and it
is attorneys general. But in the thick of it, you
just you just don't want to say something. My favorite
one of those people who get mad when you call
it Whopper Juniors instead of Wopper's Junior. And I'm like, Grammer,
(44:54):
you shouldn't meaning that is fucking awesome. Um, It's just
like attorneys general, is not. It's just fun to say.
And so like Grammar, nerds just like to know. And
I knew exactly and I know that and I felt
small when I got called out. So you won this time, Dawn.
You can follow me at Jack Underscore O b r
(45:14):
I e n Jack Underscore O'Brien. Uh. You can follow
us at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram, uh, and you
can follow us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. You can
uh go to our web page Daily Zeitgeist dot com
for some footnotes. We uh some footnotes. That was fun,
(45:38):
not bad. Thank you. We just drop me singing that
into every episode we have that isolated dropped. Um. Yeah,
we have links to every fact that we've cited, and
we won't have links to the stuff we made up.
So that's how you tell the different Uh No, most
of what we said it's factual. We're we intended it
(46:00):
to be. And so you can find all sourcing for
all of the factual information we talked about today. Uh,
that's going to do it for today. Uh And we'll
be back Monday with episode one of season five. Have
a great weekend everyone, Bye.
Hello the Internet, and welcome to season four, Episode five
of The Daily Zi Geist. Uh it's the season finale,
you guys, and we're talking about November third, two thousand seventeen.
My name is Jack O'Brien, A K. Potatoes O'Brien, and
I am joined as always by my co host, Mr
Miles Great, Mr Boy Miles A K. Young Bookery, and
(00:22):
we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat
by uh a hilarious stand up, a great writer, a
fashion icon Riley Silverman. Hello, do I need an A
K A as well? Or is that just like you thing?
I mean on the spot? Hit hit me one, the
next doctor boom, yeah, the next doctor. Yeah, I love it. Ryle.
(00:45):
What's something from your search history that, uh you you
believe is revealing about who you are as a human being.
I have been doing a deep dive into random flirtatious
gifts because I am I am entering into a long
distance lation ship with someone and that's been the primary
means of are flirting is is gifts. So it's a
lot of like very specific TV show references or emotional
(01:08):
feelings in gift form. And so I think my history
is just full of weird gifts a lot of Mary
Louise Parker from the TV show Weeds. Frinking ice coffee
seems to be like the number one gift set of
our relationship? Are you all Weeds fans? Well, yeah, and
Mary Louise Parker has this weird and we like she
and I both read on this has this weird like
iconic status amongst like queer women, even though she is
(01:30):
very tragical head of resexual it. But she's just been
in a bunch of different queer like projects or adjacent
to things. And also it's just she just has that
kind of vibe to her. So, yeah, there's something great
about her and Weeds in particular, she just really like
exudes a palpable sexuality. Yeah, and then like they embraced it,
like all the flyers and all the flyers, all the
(01:52):
like posters and billboards were always her dominate trixiek dealers
she covered in like weed and one of them, Yeah,
remember that billboard bare If you're asking me, do you
do you make your own gifts? I don't know how,
And I'm okay with that. Okay, I know it's really easy,
Evan told, and like really easy. A couple times I've
wanted something in gift for him and someone's kind of
like arrogant about it, like you can just make it,
(02:13):
And I'm like, like, for me, it feels like when
someone's like you could change your own oil, I'm like,
you don't tell me how to live right right? Like
why would I do that when someone is already doing
that somewhere. I just like, gifts exist for a reason.
I'm like, I don't want to have to track down
the footage that I'm looking for to make the gift,
Like that's the thing, Like that would be harder for
me than just hoping someone has the gift. That makes
me feel really sad because I sometimes go through painstaking
(02:34):
lengths to make the right gift of like just very
specific things that that's really for an audience of one.
That should make you happy. Man, you are making love
possible between two human beings, Like I guess if someone
really wants like a very specific part of like one
line Tom Sizemore said, and saving private Ryan as a gift,
That's how I expressed my Actually she and I got
together all Riley, what is something you believe to be overrated?
(02:58):
I think I believe it'd be over rated is the
horror film Sleepaway Camp. I'm tired of hearing about it.
I know we're out of Halloween now, but I'm tired
of hearing says gender people tell me how shocking the
ending of Sleepaway Camp was. Yeah, transgender people exist. You
can get over it, like if you were a kid
and you were shocked then and you can remember just
being shocked in fine, but it's two thousand seventeen. We exist,
(03:19):
some women have penises. Get over it. I'm tired of
hearing about it. So the ending of Sleepaway Camp, the
big twist is a reveal that the villain was a
trans woman. A trans woman got it. And it's part
of an era of filmmaking that is kind of referred
to as like trans panic, which is essentially like this.
It's you've got like you got your Silence of the Lands,
(03:41):
You've got your dressed to kill, You've got even like
ace Ventura Pet Detective. There's a whole era of these
movies where trans people or someone who is like a
bad movie version of a trans person is is presented
as this like psychotic killer. And then it's like, oh,
all trans people are disturbed and threatening to us. And
danger us and it really kind of contributes to a
(04:01):
lot of the prentice against us and violence against us.
And it's also just like really like at this point,
it's just it's done. Stop doing it that way, right, Yeah, Yeah,
for sure, I feel really Sleepaway Camp is a movie
that came out. I was no, no, it's like eighties
like okay, okay, but now people are It's one of
the ones that always comes up in conversations about like
horror movies with twist endings, and the only twist like
(04:23):
that's like bulsion. It's like, can we swear? I just
swear like you we we demand it. Um, Yeah, you
haven't hit your quality yet. You have about thirteen mortgage
Oh it's gonna happen. One for every doctor. What's something
you believe to be underrated Joan Cusack Joan Cusa, thank you.
I think John is the superior Cusack sibling. Yeah. I've
(04:44):
been having a lot of Actually I wasn't even sure
this counted is underrated or overrated. But I think there's
a point where we collectively got over John Cusack and
we haven't wanted to admit it as a culture. I
think because like there was a point where he was
like the king of like a certain kind of movie.
And I asked, I asked today on Facebook about John Cusack.
I was, when did we get over him? People, we're not.
And then I was like, name the last John Cusack
movie you saw that, Like you can name off top
(05:06):
of your head that you were excited about. And they're
always like hottub time Machine, which is like seven years ago,
kind of making fun of Yeah, um yeah Joan. And
you know, Joan is like a good utility character actress.
I think that she should be in more things, and
I think she's always people kind of forget how great
she is an Adam's Family Values as Debbie. That's like
pretty much. And then uh, anyway, that's my favorite line
(05:30):
when they go see Uncle Fester and she's completely taken
over his mind. Also, I had a mad crush on
her once. She was in the movie Toys. Yeah, Toys
is also let's go ahead but out in the underrated
Toys is due for a renaissance, Like it is such
a weird, bizarre little movie. Have you never seen it?
I did when I was a child. It's got Dumbledore,
It's got L L cool j. It's got Robin Williams.
(05:52):
It's got Joan Cusack. It's like this bizarre, weird movie
that's like and it kind of like pre predicts draw
like basically like little kids like being able to fight
wars just from there the safety and comfort of their
video game chair. Right. I loved it too. And also
I've mentioned this. This is a complete aside, but in
in Toys, l cool J doesn't like his food touching
(06:14):
and he says that a lot it infected my mind
as a kid, and I that's why to this day,
I don't like salad on my plate with other things
like if I have salt has been a separate plate.
Thank you all cool Ja, Thank you toys. And you
came in. When I came in, you were camouflaged as
a couch exactly. I ordered a mannate sandwich. So he'sn't
really working out for us. That is multiple toys references
on this podcast a toys podcast, all right, I'll take it. Uh,
(06:39):
there's enough things happening in toys that I could probably
do a podcast and like spend each episode like ten
minutes of that movie. It is a bizarre Okay, that's
all the toys. I'm sorry. And esthetically it was beautiful,
like the set design. I'm just I'm all about toys movie.
Let me look right now, you got it right in
front of them. Yeah, because I was just looking at
Joe cues X. That's a very very Levinson kind of
(06:59):
like twisted dark comedy vibe. Another occasionally great hot and
cold director. All Right, I believe that people both know
you Riley by now and know a lot about the
movie Toys. Uh So, real quick, before getting to the
stories the daily zeitgeist, we are trying to take a
sample of the ideas that are out there changing in
(07:21):
the world, whether you're looking or not. We talked about
the politics and the news. We also talk about movies
and supermarket tabloids. Uh so, uh yeah, we're just trying
to take the temperature of what's affecting the national shared consciousness.
Uh And before we get into it, uh, Riley, we
try to sample the zeitgeist, but sometimes we take the
(07:45):
opportunity to correct the zeitgeist. And you touched in you
are over under on like some trans myths. But are
there any other trans myths that you didn't get to
that are just uh annoying to you as a trans woman,
Like in terms of how trans people are treated or
(08:05):
portrayed in movies, TV, etcetera. Yeah, I think the big
one still is this idea of like that it's okay
to cast a sis male actor to play a trans
woman in a movie that seems to be the biggest,
most prevailing and still happening thing it feels like. And
I think I think there's this myth that I think
people still kind of see a trans woman as a
man who wanted to become a woman, as opposed to
(08:26):
a woman who was born and misidentified as a man.
I think most people when they try to imagine themselves
as trans or to understand the trans experience, go oh,
I don't know what I would be like if I
wanted to be the other gender. But the way I
think the better way to view what being trans is
like is imagine you are the gender you are right now,
but no one believes you, or like no one sees
(08:46):
it but you. That's what being trans is like. Like
I've always identified, I've always seen myself as as a girl,
as a woman my whole life, and as a kid
people saw as a boy. So it was like that frustrating,
like how does that? How does no one else see
that is like that's very different than like going boy,
I wish sure like to be a girl, if that
makes sense. So that going into casting, when you keep
(09:08):
casting men to play trans women, you're basically casting men
to play women. And so then there's always this like
um argument about it where people will say something like, well,
any actress, you will play any role, and like it
only seems to get applied to that particular kind of topic.
But I think that like that's it's still kind of
(09:29):
predicates stuff. Only the idea that being trans like costing
you can put on and like you would never unless
you were trying to make a specific point about identity
or gender, you would never cast a sis man to
play a says woman in something, unless you're doing something
like Louis Anderson on Baskets where it's like kind of
meant to mean something or be like it's like kind
of just kind of like a bit of like a
(09:50):
storytelling thing happening with that. You you wouldn't just randomly
do that. So it's it's got to be viewed more
like that, And I think that's the number one issue
because what happens with that then people see, let's say
Jared Letto or Eddie Redmain playing a trans woman and
something and then they go, oh yeah, and so then
when they like people would say instance data trans woman
(10:11):
and then like other people find out because typically the
argument about trans woman's like this, like like why we
get murdered at higher rates is this idea that we
are tricking people into thinking that we're women and then
they I found out used to be a guy. Like
That's that's why that point of view is so destructive
because it implies that way of a history that we're
(10:32):
hiding as opposed to being ourselves and our true identity.
And I know, like a lot of like this is
like Jen Richards, who is a transactress and a really
really good advocate for this kind of stuff, talks about
like men that she's dated who knew she was trans
but didn't want to be public with relationship because they
didn't want their friends. I think she was like dating,
like like they were doting, like Jared Letto or whatever,
like they go and want friends, think that I'm dating
(10:53):
Dallas fires Club and that kind of thing, and that
can lead to murders and violence against us, and especially
people transform of color, who are usually much more marginalized
by society. Um, and this is I know, a laugh right,
Um no, but it's but very valuable, I think. And really, yeah,
that that is something that hadn't totally occurred to me.
(11:15):
And the whole thing is like, I don't think men
really do kill trans women when they find out that
we're trans. Like the portrayal is, I think they kill
us when they when their friends find out that we're
I think it's less less their discovery of us and
more the shame of being caught quote unquote. Well that's
interesting because I feel like even growing up right like
on like this shitty talk shows like Jerry Springer, you
would constantly see that happen where a woman would reveal
(11:39):
their gender identity and then the dude just flips out.
And I think that, yeah, that that that that exact
thing sort of embodies that sort of same sentiment of
of just sort of like, oh well, no, I'm on
this show knowing so to reaffirm my masculinity, I'm gonna
you know what I mean. You know It's funny is
when I was still a young and like closeted comic
living in Ohio, I had some friends who end up
(11:59):
getting book to do a segment on the Jerry Springer
Show and it was fake and they just cast people
to play the people that were on the thing, and
they actually wanted me to play a young man who
found out that his girlfriend he was cheating on his
other trans and like, I'm like, oh my god, I'm
so glad to go do that. Like I'm so glad.
I Like, I just I kind of feeling that driving
to Chicago to do with Jerry Springer Show wasn't the
(12:20):
best thing to do for my career. And I'm like,
to this day, I'm like, I'm so glad that it's
like not footage of me somewhere, like yeah, um, well,
this has been very enlightening. Mostly that the Jerry Springer
Show is fake. I never could have seen that coming, right.
People are surprised also, I mean, if if you ever
(12:41):
seen an actual fist fight, that's not how people think, right, Um,
and uh, just really quickly, I mean you mentioned how
high the murder rate is for trans people. That's something
that when I when I found out that, I mean,
it's basically the most dangerous demogra ethic to we have
(13:01):
the highest murder rates and we have one of the
highest suicide rates, and that's the thing that gets used
against us, which is really unfair and like really destructive.
People try to use our suicide rates against us to
like imply that we're mentally ill and like disturbed. But
it's more that we have high suicide rates because we're
so frequently persecuted by society. Like I remember somebody who
was making the argument trying to imply that we were
(13:21):
like disturbed, was like, oh, it's the same rates as
Holocaust survivors. And I'm like, well, that's not a mentally
ilk group. The Holocaust survirus survived the Holocaust. That's your
that's you, that's your baseline. Then look at the look
at what was happening happening to us, Like it's just uh,
it's it's really important bring us up right now because
November is actually Transgender Awareness Month, because we actually do
(13:42):
on November twenty around the world, there's International trans Day
of Remembrance, and what we do is we literally just
read the names of our community members and our family
members who have been murdered in the last year. And
it's like a somber and like really empowerful. And so
if you if you're a person who is interested in
being like a good ally to the trans community or
like really kind of understanding the weight of what we
(14:03):
face every every day. Uh find out when one of
these visuals is happening in your town, like like Holly,
would we do it at the West Hollywood Library And
there's lots of security, So I just don't don't come
to you want with your kick, but yeah, in March
with us, we would like to have support and how
people know that we're not alone in those That's awesome. Thanks, Um,
I'll be funny from now one, all right, us to promise.
(14:26):
Uh so let's move on to the stories real quick.
Before our break, we wanted to mention that Osama bin
Laden's computer files were released onto the Internet and uh
we were able to see the file names and uh
(14:46):
they were occasionally really funny. Um, oh my god. There
was a lot of crocheting videos. Uh. There were a
lot of children's movies ants Are You Sage? Uh, Ice Age,
Dawn of the Dinosaurs and cars. Uh Ann's Fields especially
(15:06):
fun to me because well he's not as fun anymore,
but Woody Allen is the lead in that movie. So
I love the idea that of bin Laden is watching
this movie that's like a very like stereotypical Jewish man.
Obviously we'll get to go out on a little bit later,
but yeah, we always do. We always do get to
Woody Allen a little later. Uh. Some of the crocheting
(15:28):
videos the Art of Crochet, how to Crochet a basket stripe,
Crochet Beaniecap, and Crochet Star. Uh. Probably this uh kind
of most mind bending file that was on his hard
drive was he had loose change the like nine eleven
Truther or conspiracy was viewing for any stoner in college,
(15:50):
like whoa, what if? Right? Which it's must have been
like a way more extreme version of how Chuck Berry
must have felt when he watched back to the future
for the first time, just him seeing someone else take
credit for his his damn work. Um. And I mean
some people are saying that, uh, you know, a lot
(16:13):
of this could have been of children who were with
him in the compound, or his wives or you know,
any of the people who were in there. But some
of it was like erotica. There was one file called
s Dot Gift, I believe many sas and poor Uh
(16:36):
it's actually just merely his Parker dreaking ice coffee though exactly. Uh,
you just gotta search skiff and see see what's out there. Uh.
And there was also eight bit video games that were
like adult video games from back in like the like eighties,
like Pixelated Nude Women, where you would just do like
(16:58):
the most menial task like raw around to reveal this
non human woman. Yeah, it's a yeah, just like Larry
that was the big like eight bit porn game when
we were where it was like King's Quest but getting
laid in exactly. It just shows you, man, it must
have been boring as fun to be in that compound hiding.
(17:19):
You know. I wonder if, like just if the crocheting videos,
if I don't know, maybe bin Laden was really trying
to step up his crochet game. Maybe it's what he thought.
How did they make those vests? They have those vests
in those yeah little know in fact those are all
homespun by bin Laden himself. Uh. And like yeah, I
think he's just funny. Like there was Final Fantasy Games,
so there's there was something for everyone. If you like porn,
(17:40):
you're a nine eleven truther, we're all finding that maybe
we have something in common with Oshama. Yeah, it's just
funny to think that when he was watching all those
documentaries wondering like where bin Laden was, Uh, he knew
himself that the answer was in Pakistan, masturbating to eat
bit representations of naked women. It's a good life. It's
a good life, I guess. So it's a proud life.
(18:03):
All Right, We're gonna take a quick break and we'll
be right back. And we're back. So I wanted to
talk a little bit about what's being called the Weinstein effect, Uh,
sort of the spreading realization that, uh, famous men, a
(18:28):
lot of famous men are fucking creeps. Uh. We've got
Spacey Ratner Toeback Hoffman, uh Dustin Hoffman. Uh apparently on
a TV movie. Did we talk about that yesterday? On
a TV movie? Sexually harassed as seventeen year old young woman? Uh,
(18:49):
Jeremy Piven Price from Amazon, Halpern, who was the head
of politics at ABC News. And George H. W. Bush
even though he was brought out at the Houston Astros.
Was it like game three or something? Yeah, one of
them though the first page. They're still cool with them,
just like they were still cool with that Gurio game.
(19:11):
A little slanty gesture that I'm not bitter. Uh, but yeah,
cool Houston, nice work. Uh So, yeah, it seems like
there's never been a time when the world was more
receptive to women calling out powerful men who have abused them. Uh.
(19:31):
But nobody's really talking about the most powerful man uh,
Donald Trump, unless you count the people and Donald Jrs.
Mentions every time he gloats about a new Hollywood big
wig getting named. But yeah, Trump's accusers have told The
New York Times this week that, uh, they feel like
(19:52):
the country has forgotten them, and they have good reason
to feel that way. Uh. And it's probably worth just
remind finding people what he's been accused of. Kissing Miss
USA pageant competitor on the mouth, um when she was
not looking for that, groping fellow passenger on a flight
(20:14):
several decades ago, kissing receptionist working in Trump Tower in
two thousand five, groping contestant on The Apprentice in two
thousand seven. And then we have him bragging about how
he grabs women by the pussy. Uh and he doesn't
even have to ask, because when you're a star, that
(20:35):
just let you do it on tape. Uh. So yeah,
I don't know, it's a it is interesting that he
is apparently not like this isn't even being brought up.
Really for the most part, as people are talking about
these the Hollywood elites who are being kind of taken down,
(20:56):
well it's you know, Weinstein goes down him because his
entire industry rejected him. They said, yo, funk that this
is bullshit. We we can't have you be a part
of this. So that that's how Weinstein has to Actually
that's that's he actually experiences some form of a rejection
or punishment. Trump, on the other hand, when that Grabbed
by the Pussy tape came out, there were maybe a
(21:17):
couple of people who dropped their endorsements of him, but
there was no across the board GOP saying, you know,
this is not cool. We're not about this. Get rid
of them, because if you really think about it, if
they did that, Hillary Clinton would have won most likely
when considering the how narrowly Trump won. If the GOP
really came out and said, you know, this is not
what the party is about. We can't have someone like
(21:38):
disrepresenting us, especially not to be president, that would have
been a real problem for them. And I think it
also shows like partisanship has this kind of a lot
to do with why that is because even now Republicans
are still very reluctant to call Trump out for any
number of things that he's done. Is but the only
it seemed like the only people that are willing to
say anything are the people who have nothing left to gain,
(22:00):
which are the outgoing like congressmen and senators. Those need
to be the only people who because they're not they're
not affected by whether or not the GOP power structure crumbles.
They're just now they're willing to say something. Do you
need something too about liberal groups being more willing to
kind of eat or like, there's always the argument that
liberals like will devour own tails when it comes to
like social justice things like that, So I wonder that's
(22:21):
part of it. Like I think that liberals are much
more willing to be publicly divisive amongst ourselves, and so
with someone like Weinstein or whatever, no matter how much
money he's donated, like our candidates or whatever, we're still like, like,
we will tear down our idols all the time, and
sometimes to our detriment. To where we can't like win
elections is easily because we can't rally behind a common figure.
(22:42):
Like I always say that Republicans or like conservatives will
rally behind the like ten percent of things they do
agree on, whereas liberals we will always like terry to
or apart about the temper cent we don't agree right in.
And that's like, that's what I saw last year at
the election, to even outside of the sexual harassment stuff. It. Yeah,
and I do wonder that that's a really good point.
(23:03):
And I also wonder if, like I had read this
article that was really sort of deep dive into a
single community in Colorado, uh and sort of how the
two thousand sixteen election went down there. And one of
the most surprising things was there was this group of
(23:25):
women called Women for Trump that really got involved in
the community, uh, you know, doing voter outreach and um,
they actually formed the day after the Access Hollywood tape
came out. And there uh point or like their thesis
was that they were tired of the liberal media telling
(23:47):
them how they were supposed to feel about, you know,
sexual politics. And well that's part of the Trump effect
in general. I Trump Trump has figured out how to
play conservative fatigue over liberal outrage like a fiddle, and
so he continually while in office and even beforehand, would
(24:08):
say inflammatory things that people will get up in arms about,
oftentimes very rightfully so. But because it happens so often,
he can do it so frequently and on so many
topics that everybody who reacts to it, people who who
have any sort of inclination of like I'm tired of
the PC police or whatever, can go, yeah, we're sick
of hearing about it. We're tired of and so they
(24:29):
almost like revel in the way that he baits us
and the way that he taunts us. And it's this
frustrating thing as a person who cares about als with
justice or a person who cares about like rights and
equality of like, well, we can't just let things go.
But we also, I don't know yet how we even
react to stuff without also then making it worse for us,
Like it's it's such a frustrating game of chess. And
(24:50):
and yeah, it's easy to do because whether it's allegations
of sexual assault or obstruction of justice or whatever it
is is it's just another thing again that people it's
easy if you are Trump supporters just say oh there, well,
that's just another thing they're trying to like what is
it this week, what's the big Trump complete this week?
And it's easy to just to dismiss it like outright,
(25:12):
and I think again because like the sort of part
is an angle of it all too. It's it's hard
to to sort of embrace that or or to embrace
the truth and say, oh, this is this is really wrong.
And if you also look like the women who supported Trump,
I think he got sixty one percent of the white
women without college degree vote, and that is a group
who just if you look at polling, like on a continuum,
they're growing more conservative in the in the in recent years.
(25:36):
So to even have, like you know, to to have
that group of women as your supporter base, that's not
going to do much for him to be held to
any any form of anything that resembles accountability. Didn't Trump
get most of the white women, of white women, of
white women, white women overall, yeah, of overall, and white
(25:57):
women without college degrees, and that's that the one without
college agree he is the one that is continually getting
more conservative. And again I think even now we don't
talk about the misconduct after the fact, because at the
end of the day, he was elected president and so
that basically the America co signed that and said, well,
I guess that's not a problem because it was enough
(26:17):
for him to become president and a lot of the
stuff that was being rallied against him got dropped, Like
the case the underage assault case that he was that
was like being built up and like it was going
to courts, and then he got elected. I don't think
anyone thought he was gonna win, and so he had
like court dates set and then the day he was elected,
then like suddenly that disappeared because the victim didn't want
(26:38):
to come forward anymore. Right, I should have said that
those uh examples, they are just the examples that people
are still willing to kind of accuse him of. Um.
And that's kind of the thing with the Weinstein Weinstein
case too, is that Weinstein's case, it's not like it
just happened overnight, Like Ronan Farrell had like a like
a months and months long investigation into this that he
could come forward. And I think, like that's the problems
(27:00):
you with the Trump stuff is like we have these
scattered reports to come forward. We don't have anybody who's
just going like, here are all the things that we
need to say, you know, um, and I guess during
the election, many people did come out to accuse Trump
of sexual harassment, and at the time, at every rally
is like, oh, these people are lying. They're just trying
to smear me for the campaign, and it was it
(27:21):
wasn't taken seriously because if again from a partisan angle,
it just seems like it's like a smear, like if
you believe in the conspiratory liste, Like, oh, whould they
pay to say this this week? Is the mentality of
some people who were so dismissive of these accusations. And
he plays in those conpiracy theory things all the time.
So yeah, and I mean, I guess just to play
a devil's advocate. Uh. The whole country kind of by
(27:43):
by the end of the Lewinsky scandal was kind of
ready to move on and we're like, yeah, okay, we
get it. He got a blowjob from an intern. Uh,
you know, let's move on. And he's doing a good
job and the economy is strong. Uh when when it
was a Democrat, Uh, that that's handle just Uh. I
talked about how the movie American Beauty, Uh, well, when
(28:05):
I first saw it, I was, you know, an adolescent kid,
and so it wasn't as creepy to me, um, because
I was younger than the like high school girl that
Kevin Spacey was lusting after, the same thing with the
Lewinsky affair, like she was like twenty two or something
that you know, someone was talking about recently on a
Facebook thread that I was in and about how different
(28:28):
I think we would have viewed that entire affair in
seventeen versus in the mid nineties when it happened, because
to think about how phillinized Monica Lewinsky was by the
culture when she really was just a young kid who
was like seduced by her very very very powerful boss.
And like how like you know, Lensky has said that
like for a long time, like her mom wouldn't let
her close the door watches going in the bathroom because
she's afraid she would kill herself. Like it was like
(28:48):
that she was being tormented by the media and just
like being viciously bullied all the time and now and
if I think that if if she came forward, she
would get at least a little bit more respect, at
least have a camp that was way more on her
side than before it really hope, So you know, I
mean who knows, but well, yeah, and I think again too,
(29:09):
with the fact that with Trump being elected president, that
that only reaffirms his worldview that well, look, I can
do that and it's it's not a problem, and you
can see that, and how he's like rolling back Obama
era sexual assault guidelines or transgender bands and things like that.
Getting elected is like the worst thing for someone who
has done something the kinds of accusations he has facing him,
(29:30):
and yeah, been being electable, Like there's no reason for
you to think that there's anything wrong with anything you've done. Yeah,
he thinks that he's been proven completely right, right, and
it's almost an he won on a because tour college.
He didn't win by popular vote, but like he doesn't
always seem to really want to believe that or understand that,
and so he in his mind thinks, like I am
(29:51):
on the pulse of the American people, and they believe
what I believe, and or at least that's what he's
telling himself. So I want to talk about one of
these accusations that is isn't getting as many headlines because
the person is not uh that famous, but the publisher
of the magazine Art Forum, uh his name is Knight Landisman.
(30:17):
Uh is being accused of sexually harassing a young woman
named Amanda Schmidt. Um, and the details are really pretty
gross uh and horrifying. And uh, I don't know. So
art Forum is apparently the the magazine in the art world.
(30:38):
It's kind of like where where people go to, you know,
decide if artist is worth a damn And um, I
think I assumed that the art world was like progressive
when it comes to the sexual politics, just based on
the content of you know, what cutting edge avant got
(30:59):
gard art is about. And yeah, I thought it was
all like Maud from Big Lebowski. And you know, it
turns out it's still got a lot of problems. Um.
This uh feminists critique of art history called why haven't
there been any Great women artists? And uh, it's just
(31:23):
this amazing essay that examines the history of sexism in
the history of art. Uh. The writer talks about all
the different ways that institutionalized sexism made it so that
women like couldn't be considered great, couldn't practice the art form,
like they weren't allowed to paint nude models because it
(31:44):
was deemed unladylike just excelling at a single skill was
deemed unladylike parents weren't gonna let their daughters be painters. Um.
So she just makes this argument that uh, you know
that question, which I think was being asked more when
she wrote it. She wrote the essay in which I
(32:04):
probably should have set up. Okay, yeah, I thought you
were saying that this guy who got who stepped down,
was the one who published it. Like, well, there's plenty
of examples of of monstrous men who have been vocally
in support of feminism until they get caught being a harasser. Right,
so I guess it's just And actually the editor in
chief of the magazine has stepped down. It is a woman,
(32:28):
and she just was like, I can't you know, support
this uh magazine, this publication anymore. Um. But it's it's
interesting to me to kind of examine, like to take
another look at the art world and you know all
the ways that even though it is sort of this
cutting edge cultural thing, uh, you know, it has been
(32:53):
very dominated by white men, just as much as you know,
other industries and like Wall Street and ship like that. Um.
You know, there there's this group called the Guerrilla Girls,
and they've been working sort of anonymously for years too,
basically exposed, as they say, and they're in they're like
(33:13):
mission statement, like gender and ethnic bias as well as
corruption and everything from politics, art, film, pop culture. So
one of the campaigns they did was throwing up stickers
about the lack of uh, one person exhibitions that were
put on by female artists in New York. So the
Guggenheim didn't have any, the Metropolitan didn't have any, the
(33:34):
Modern had one, and the Whitney didn't have any. And
then in TWI, in terms of women who are having
one person exhibitions in in the top New York City museums,
the Guggenheim had one, the Metropolitan had one, the Modern
had two, and the Whitney had one. So even in
what is the thirty years, that is incremental change. You know,
my dad is an artist, which is why I'm sort
(33:56):
of waxing on about this, and and he's and he's
a he's black man, so he's sort of had to
confront the art world head on and things like this. Uh,
you know, the power still concentrated in men's hands, but also, uh,
there a lot of the collectors they still value men's work.
By far. So they and essentially collectors are the ones
that assigned the value to art because they're telling you
what they what they think this piece is worth paying for.
(34:19):
And now in the last twenty years, there are more
female curators and that's a step in the direction, but
there's still very much a huge problem of representation, like
within the art world. Um, and I guess you know,
who knows what it's going to take to break that.
And I think even when you think about in the
article and asks like who are the great women artists?
I'm not a huge art expert, but if if you
(34:41):
asked me to say, name an artist, I would probably
say a male artist immediately, you know, or even if
you asked young kids, they say like Shepherd Ferry or
Banksy or something like that. You know, if if you
said name a prolific female artist, I would have trouble.
I would say Georgia O'Keeffe and then I would begin
really having to think then, like, you know, I couldn't
(35:01):
just list them down like that. And I think that
is also very indicative of kind of what even the
people who might not be totally into the art scene,
that how little exposure we actually have. Two female artists
in general. Yeah, the the fact that collectors, you know,
the rest of society sort of bleeding into how artists
(35:22):
are valued in that way, like the fact that you know,
many of the richest people in the world are still
white men, is probably has a huge effect on that.
Um I was gonna say that. The other thing is
too is not unlike like comedy or or any sort
of entertainment kind of thing. A lot of it is
is who you know and who knows you to bring
(35:44):
you into the fold. And that sends to be people
tend to have this like intrinsic bias about like there's
a term for it, but basically like oh, I know
these guys, I'm gonna bring them in, you know, and
that like that's like there was an article just came
out this week about the lack of people of color,
especially women of color, in the writer's room and television
and how I think right now was something like less
(36:06):
than four percent of writers for TV shows are people
of color. And how like like on Hulu, of all
of whose original series, not a single writer as a
person of color, and like that's that's like a huge,
huge gap in representation. And it's because so much of
like TV. Right. Again, the industry you would think from
service value is super liberal and super inclusive, but when
(36:27):
you actually look at the numbers, they don't hold it
upright because, like art, it has gatekeepers that you have
to get past. And I guess all industries have gatekeepers,
but some are just easier to get TV and movies
especially like you need a shipload of money to make
those things. And so unless you're one of like an
anomaly of a person who can start on YouTube completely
(36:49):
self started, and then and just by virtue of your
audience being so big, they pull you into the mainstream
like Ray has exactly. Uh great, we're gonna take a
quick break and we'll be right back, and we're back. Uh.
(37:12):
And we should acknowledge that the three of us are
not like experts on art by any means. Our superproducer
Nick Stump pointed out that there is a great artist
name Louis Bourgeois. Uh and uh, she actually came came
around like around the time of Jackson Pollock and Mark Rothko,
(37:34):
and she thought that Uh. She pointed out that surrealists
made women the object of their art, and she was
trying to make women the subject of art. But that
is Uh, that's a big change, and I didn't realize
how big a change it was before uh that conversation.
So get off my back, Nick, I mean mail gay
(37:57):
as a term comes from from art. Comeat bo show. Um.
So in our remaining time, I wanted to talk about
Donald Trump's sleep schedule, you guys, um, and just sleep
in general, because so he Bragg's constantly about only needing
(38:21):
four hours of sleep a night, um, which I guess
Margaret Thatcher was the same way, she said she only
needed four hours of sleep at night. I think Obama
was too. I think that was something he came aout
during his presidency. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of
presidents don't get that much sleep, but Trump, like forever
(38:42):
has said like why he barely needs that much sleep? Um.
But if you look at his tweets before people started
taking his phone away, when he like left the Oval
office at night, like went up to bed, Uh, he
did send out some of his more erratic I guess
(39:02):
you could say tweets uh in the middle of the
night like Uh. That there was also the so there
was first of all, the despite the constant negative press
cove Fay Fay tweets came out of the title the
night Uh there was Uh did crooked Hillary helped disgusting
(39:23):
check out sex tape and passed Alicia and become a
US citizens so she could use her in the debate. Um.
And you know, a bunch of you know, a bunch
of hateful stuff about Megan Kelly. Uh. And you know,
he he just a lot a lot of his most
famous Twitter tirades from during the election came and afterwards too, yeah,
(39:45):
after you and UM. It's just interesting because it seems
like I don't know, I wonder what, like if there's
something about you know, the fact that he doesn't sleep
is is strange, Like he's sort of almost this alternate
(40:06):
type of person who like lives by this alternate sleep schedule. Um.
And that there are like, for instance, there's there's a
type of I guess most dolphins, but they're in particular
these spinner dolphins that I saw when I went to
Hawaii back in June. I saw like we were out
(40:29):
on a boat and these dolphins came up and were
like playing and uh, you know, swimming alongside the boat.
And the captain of the boat was like, yeah, they're
sleep Actually they just never sleep like we do because
they would get eaten or drown. Uh, So they sleep
with like one part of their brain at a time,
And um, I don't know. Experts on human sleep talk
(40:53):
about how you know, you don't fall one to sleep
and then like wake up one percent. There are moments
of like partial sleep. Parts of the brain can go
offline for periods of a few seconds to thirty seconds. Um,
there are things called micro sleep where you just slip
(41:14):
up and you know. They've actually studied people who are
like train engineers and found that they are like will
occasionally be asleep when they thought they were awake the
whole time. A lot of people, Uh have you even
been seen to fall asleep for three to five seconds
(41:35):
and just not realize it at all and then swear
up and down that they were awake the whole time. So, UM,
I don't know. It's just worrying to me to to
think about this idea that, Um, we have a guy
who twenty four hours a day has access to a
button that can end the world, and uh, you know,
(42:00):
at night he appears to become this different, uh sort
of less responsible version, which is tough to become like
more erratic and less responsible. But um, you know this
guy who like never sleeps, and I don't know that
people have studied that much, these people who only need
(42:22):
four hours of sleep at night. But um, I also
wonder too if he actually has that condition or if
he saw it somewhere and thought that's impressive. He makes
himself only sleep four hours so he can pract about it,
and his body is like raggedly going, what are you
doing to us? Well? Could it could explain like when
he goes off prompter in speeches and he just starts
doing his trump freestyle jazz. Uh, just like stream of
(42:45):
consciousness talking like in some fugue state the entire time. Yeah.
And I mean a lot of people point to different
behaviors as being similar to dementia, and lack of sleep
is really connect did to Alzheimer's And it's a like
to uh kind of symbiotic relationship or whatever. The bad
(43:09):
version of symbiotic is where parasitic relationship, where Alzheimer's both
causes and is caused by lack of sleep, and so
it's you know, just a vicious cycle. Uh. So I
don't know, it's I don't I don't have any solutions
to it, but it's just something I guess to keep
(43:29):
an eye on, like the time stamps on his tweets
and uh, you know, general Kelly, if you're listening, like
I know you do, Uh, maybe just keep an eye
on him. The biggest trump is the lack of compromise
with the sleeping So you don't know what Kelly can
come in and compromise his sleep better, right, right exactly,
remember anyone who hates his presidency more than him. That's
(43:50):
the thing. It's weird about it, Like, I just I
don't like at this point, I'm like, how bad is
your ego that you just need to stay here because
you really don't want to be here. You're mad at
everything all the time. It's and the answer is so bad.
His ego is so bad. Riley, thank you so much
for joining us. Thanks for a lot of fun um.
Where can people follow you? On Twitter? I am at
(44:11):
Riley J. Silverman And if you go on Facebook, I
have a Facebook page Rally Silverman. And I'm also Raley
Silverman on Instagram. And I am the head writer for
a podcast called International Waters on the Maxi Fun Network,
and I'm a writer for sci Fi Wires fangirls page awesome.
That sounds those all sound wonderful. Uh, Miles, where can
people find you? You can find me on Twitter and
(44:33):
Instagram at Miles of Gray and you know, shout out
to Dan O'Brien corrected me the other day. I said
attorney generals, and I yes, I am aware, and it
is attorneys general. But in the thick of it, you
just you just don't want to say something. My favorite
one of those people who get mad when you call
it Whopper Juniors instead of Wopper's Junior. And I'm like, Grammer,
(44:54):
you shouldn't meaning that is fucking awesome. Um, It's just
like attorneys general, is not. It's just fun to say.
And so like Grammar, nerds just like to know. And
I knew exactly and I know that and I felt
small when I got called out. So you won this time, Dawn.
You can follow me at Jack Underscore O b r
(45:14):
I e n Jack Underscore O'Brien. Uh. You can follow
us at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram, uh, and you
can follow us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. You can
uh go to our web page Daily Zeitgeist dot com
for some footnotes. We uh some footnotes. That was fun,
(45:38):
not bad. Thank you. We just drop me singing that
into every episode we have that isolated dropped. Um. Yeah,
we have links to every fact that we've cited, and
we won't have links to the stuff we made up.
So that's how you tell the different Uh No, most
of what we said it's factual. We're we intended it
(46:00):
to be. And so you can find all sourcing for
all of the factual information we talked about today. Uh,
that's going to do it for today. Uh And we'll
be back Monday with episode one of season five. Have
a great weekend everyone, Bye.
The Daily Zeitgeist News
Hosts And Creators
Jack O'Brien
Miles Gray
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