June 30, 2022 • 51 mins
In this episode, Doug gives his take on the looming Kyrie Irving and Nets divorce. Then, he finishes his conversation with NBA trainer and Kobe Bryant’s former video scout Mike Procopio, who pulls back the curtain on his time with Kobe and breaks down the top players from this year’s draft.
Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Download, rate and subscribe to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! #douggottliebshow
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, what u bomb? Doug Gottleiband, Welcome in. You're listening
to All Ball And this is part three of Mike
Procopio and Mike, of course is it was the video
scout for Kobe Bryant and part three this gets deep
into the deep, deep into the uh the stuff with
(00:23):
with Kobe pretty awesome and when we last a part
two if you missed it, revolve around at the end
Shaquille O'Neil first time you met Shack. If you missed that,
download part two. But I do want to get to
this this Kyrie Irving stuff because at the time that
this drops, Kyrie has asked for and received permission to
(00:45):
UH seek a signing trade, and to this point no
one has stepped up. But I don't know if he
comes with the Lakers. But here's here's what I can
tell you that we have this tendency to at players
simply based upon their skill. And that's great, okay, because
(01:06):
in football that kind of works, in baseball, that kind
of works. In basketball, it doesn't work. You have to
people ask all the time at my kids at work,
what do you love about basketball? Every part about it?
I love that you have to have five guys actually
working together at both ends of the court. And you
(01:26):
have to have guys that can come in and that
can work with the guys that are already in there,
and you have to have a coach who understands how
to motivate different people and get them to all play together.
And then you have to stop or be better than
another team who's trying to do the exact same thing.
It's an incredible sport. But if we've learned anything about
the NBA, the guys that are the most talented, and
(01:48):
really for the NFL as well, the guy is the
most talented. Now, I don't always win, don't often win,
don't often win. So I think this is a fascinating
thought on Kyrie Irving, and a lot of the league
seems to be saying like, you know, thanks, but no thanks.
Now we should factor in that Kyrie Irving, he doesn't
(02:10):
just want to sign a trade. He wants to sign
a max contract and then you can trade me. You know,
if you said, hey, I'll do a sign trade, but
I'm assigned for ten million dollars to be a two
year deal, I'm sure everybody would sign up a lot
more teams to sign up for that. But when you
factor in the comments that he made, the NBA is
not blind, effor dumb. They heard him say we don't
really need a head coach. They've seen how many times
(02:32):
he's been injured, They've watched how many times he's gone
often done his own thing defensively, and they're telling you.
No one is saying Kyrie Irving isn't an incredible talent. Nobody,
because that would be blasphey, that was a real stupid
He's remarkably talented. But can you win with him? Right?
(02:53):
Can you win with him? That's the difference. Can you
win with Kyrie Irving? And as much as we could say, well,
you know, Lebron one with him before he did, he
definitely won with him before. But they were down three one,
Andrew Boga got hurt, Draymond Green got suspended, they both
(03:14):
played incredible basketball. They needed a great block shot and
unbelievable three to beat the Golden State Warriors. And Lebron
liked it so much. He was the one who said
I wanted somebody else, I wanted he. The reason Kyrie
left was Lebron wanted to replace him after they won
a championship. What does that tell you the best, the
(03:37):
most talented players don't always win, and you could even
say don't often win, and that, I believe is one
of the telltale signs of what's up with Kyrie Irving.
He's unbelievably talented, remarkable skilled. You don't get that good
unless you work incredibly hard. But all that other stuff.
(04:00):
Who That's why it makes it really hard for any
of these gms to say, yeah, I'll sign up for that.
All right, let's get to Mike and catch up. Here's
part three of my discussion with Mike procopio. Whatever happened
to Eggie mccraige. He went to so Eggie, which I
(04:22):
was definitely afraid of because he was just this First
of all, he went to a million high schools and
like he played for Leo in like he ended up
going to supposed to go to let me see, yeah, Redemption,
Christian supposed to go to un l V, went to Redemption,
Christian didn't qualify, went to Dixie, got in trouble at Dixie,
(04:46):
and then supposed to go to un l V. Didn't
go to un l V, end up going to U
TAP and finishing up a you tap and then like
I remember you know. I'm sure. I'm sure you played
on a team or two of those. Like those teams
played the college teams in the preseason. Yeah, yeah, I
did it. BBC had one we played against like U
(05:08):
MASS and BC and UM in Northeastern. I remember he
like we beat BC. He had like a decent game,
and then we like we go to play Northeastern and
I turned around. I'm like, you're playing out there, like
he's there, he's eating chickens and doughnuts and he goes
down my feet hurt. I ain't playing And I was like,
(05:29):
ah fuck, and then, uh, you appreciate this My first
my first team after college. It was in the USBL.
I love the US. So they had a team in End, Oklahoma, Okay,
and uh Brian Gates was our coach's assistant the NBA.
Brian Gates, Yeah, okay, and he's like me, he's a grinders,
(05:51):
grinder and he actually I can't remember that there was
supposed to be a different coach was with the Mavericks
and he left I don't know, being a paid like
right with Hanker. Probably no UM anyway, So uh, remember
I never get this for and uh that my dad
(06:11):
told me I said that I called him and it
wasn't need it and need him was like an hour
from still Water, and we had five Oklahoma State guys
on our team. I was like the number one overall
pick whatever, and so we had we but we had
Willie Burton, yeah nin' picking the draft an NBA game, Okay,
we had um Bubba Wells led the country scoring with
(06:34):
a snow Valley. So great story with Bubba Wells. Portland's
used to go to Snow Valley. Yes, and they used
to put college guys to work as counselors and write
him out draft type guys Marcus Fizer and stuff that. Yeah,
go ahead, So Bubba Wells goot. Okay, Bubba Wells. Uh
le Bradford Smith. But Bradford Smith, I know the name Louisville, Louisa,
(06:58):
Louisa Louisa. Bradford Smith is the one who gave Jordan's
like thirty or thirty one and then watched Bordon and
then the reporters made it up like he was talking
shipped to Jordan's and George's like all right. They played
back to back nights, playing in Chicago the next night
and Jordan game thirty one in the first half the
next night right, and was talking ship to him the
whole time, and he want meet Jordan by the way.
(07:19):
Huh you meet Jordan by the way. Yes, So my
dad was text Winners assistant at Long Beach State. Okay,
though I met Jordan's his rookie year. They stayed at
the airport Marriott. I mean, this is like, this is
what the NBA used to be. And he had like
the foam headphones on the cassette player and he text
introduced us and we sat down with him and we
(07:41):
had like we had like cokes or something, and he
was so nice and he was like I was like
I was a little kid. I was like, what are
you listening to? And he goes nothing, he goes, he
goes sometimes I listened to his gossip. But I have
him on if he will leave me alone, if I
don't have mom, everybody comes up to you. I was like,
that's amazing. That was That was my take away from it.
(08:02):
And then I worked his camp at my year of
Notre Dame. What year, I mean what Santa Barbara Barbara.
I worked at like three four years in Santa Barbara
and it was phenomenal and he was he was he
was serving drinks at the bar. Yes, I never went,
oh he like some Irish bar, right I guess oh?
(08:24):
I had not like again, but like I was, I
was still like I've been kind of around and stuff,
but the social part to it, like I was, I
didn't know any of this stuff like existed, you know.
I was so focused on basketball, Like, wait, Michael Jordan's
as serving drinks at a bar, and so we would
go to Snow Valley and the coaches will be like, look,
MJ's running his camp down the street. Now, look the
(08:46):
camp is awful as far as the basketball, but MJ
plays at night. So you would drive down and we
would watch him play. The first year we went, I
was working Snow Valley in like yalloming uh Darius smiles,
Jay Williams, uh Luke Walton like he had all these
college all Americans working camp to play at night. And
(09:09):
that turned into Doug when I started working it, like
because George Raveling and his son was running the camp.
I was like George, like these college councilors don't do
anything during the day. Why don't we do stuff like
structured workouts like we do Nike. So we ended up
doing the structural workouts and funk, what are But the
biggest thing from that camp that I took is like
(09:33):
everybody would ask m J for ship like shoes, money,
whatever whatever, like so I would walk through because like
throughout the camp. Camps terrible because just because they're bad players,
but they allow you to get one thing signed through
and with m J. Like earlier in the weekend, I
still have my poster, Yeah I got I have the
I have the one where he's dug in at Chicago Stadium.
(09:59):
Yeah uh and like so like you get your picture taken,
and I remember I turned around MG and Michael, do
you mind if we talk footwork because I'm a big
footwork guy and he goes footwear And I saw the
look in his face like another fucking guy asking me
for something, and I'm like, no, no no, no, no footwork.
I'll tell you what, Doug. That guy talked to me
(10:19):
every night about footwork, right before the evening session. He
would come in the morning and he would come at
night and we would talk for about three or four minutes.
I would always come up to him. He would talk
to me about ball placement, jab reads, fade away, Like
the guy was a master at it and talking to Kobe.
(10:40):
Kobe was a little bit more open, but MJ like
as far as being introverted a little bit, yes, but
when he spoke was he really He was like, I
never forget I'm playing the first night I'm playing, and
I mean, if you look at me and you're like, no,
no fucking chance, right, and uh, but I know I
(11:00):
started a Notre Dame, so I had a little little
and I'm from West Coast, had a little swack people.
So I got I was in the second game, and
I'll never forget. Like I remember, I came down the lane,
I go past my guy and he's fucking standing there
and he kind of just like faked at me. And
I got rid of that quick. And there was like
a somebody called foul or something couple plays later and
(11:22):
I was standing next to him and he goes, if
you're gonna be a pussy, stay out of the game,
and I was like, all right, and so I just
hooked after that and it was really really fun. But
it was basically like that you can't be They'll be
scared to me, like either play or don't play, but
don't come out here, and and frightened because Michael Jordan's
out here and he was, and then you know it
(11:43):
would every game was like and and by the way,
like I played in the Magic pickup games, which were
awful because magic, Yeah, we just called fouls and make
sh it up and and like I get it your
magic and the U c l A. Guys are kind
of dicks, to be honest with the time, because they
were they had a role in the but um, but uh,
(12:03):
George was that was that like Tracy Murray McClane. Okay,
so okay, so that was a little before me. Okay,
so Murray McClean, Derek Martin Madson, like those guys were awesome.
Um and the other guys after that, the next guys,
I was, those are all like my contemporaries. I'm my
(12:24):
high school teammates, were my AU teammates for j R.
Henderson still stopped playing in Japan. Now he's coaching in Japan.
Chris Johnson, Christian Johnson who does his own own pot
he played, Um, those the guys who kind of Charles
was was cool. There was some of those other guys
in that era. Actually the team that won it right
(12:45):
in Yeah, and thyas gys was cool. But there's just
a like, look it was Magie showed up, he was playing,
and the U c l A guys are playing, and
then you know some of some of the other guys.
And part of it is also you mentioned the you teams.
When I grew up, there was like three big AU
teams maybe four, right, And we didn't like each other. Right.
(13:06):
We we played in in in the same league against
each other all growing up, and we didn't nobody switched
teams like you didn't like them. Right. So then all
of a sudden, now in college are being recruited by
these guys like, well, I don't want to go there,
Like Toby Bailey is my rival all growing up. I
have nothing against Toby now personally, but like they were
dicks and we didn't like them and they didn't like us.
Like now we're gonna play in the same college team
(13:27):
like no way, without question. So um anyway, um, so yeah.
The thing about the Jordan pickup games were it was
like every game was on repeat where he would be
competitive and really fun up and down, and then you
get to like the last couple of points and you
(13:47):
weren't you weren't if you he wasn't, if you weren't
on his team, you weren't winning, and it wasn't bullshit.
It wasn't like he called ball, he called foul. He
just get it and yeah, you double team and you
find the dude, or he'd make it turnt around, turned
the other way and they get fade away like he
was just. It was just every game was on repeat,
and it was almost like it was a movie set,
but it wasn't. There was no bullshit. It was a
(14:08):
real game and it didn't matter who was there. He
couldn't stop him when he didn't want to be stopped.
That's the difference between a guy that like, and that's
the thing like a Snow Valley. I I fell in
love with him, um and I'll tell you why. Like
I always thought it. Look, m J was fantastic, but
I never really broke him down like I always thought.
(14:29):
He was like Dominique Wilkins two point oh, like a
high flyer, big but much bigger winner than Dominique, of course,
but I didn't think about footwork or what he did
in the post or anything like that. I knew he
shot fade away. So my first night at Snow Valley,
I'm fucking tired of the motherfucker are we there from
six am to fucking ten pm? And all I think
we're just going to bed right. By the way, That's
(14:51):
where I became a really good ping punk player. Snow
Valley no value of course, yeah there you go, or
the Superstar NBA Superstar videos as well, of course of
oh yeah, and like Herb Livesey. First of all, Herb
is anybody, any coach or young players should look the
guy up. And the guy was phenomenal, but he was
(15:11):
a tyrant at his camp. He was literally like hiding
the bushes to make sure you're running offense and if
you funk around one bit, he'll come at you. So
I'm like looking for him. I'm tired, I'm going back,
and they're like, hey, we're just going to bed right,
and he goes, no, no, no no, A bunch of our coaches,
we're gonna go into my room and we're gonna break
down film Michael Jordan's I'm like the fund you're breaking
(15:33):
down like fucking dump videos Like no, no, no no, he goes,
not none of that. So they had like this like
videotape or breakdowns of his jab going right and like
setting up his fade away um, you know, like his
midpost games low post game is a perimeter game. And
I was like this for like two and a half hours.
I got my note I remember I didn't even have
(15:55):
a notebook at the time. I had something just writing,
not anything I could write on, and like that, dude
is there's a difference that And I said, that is
the difference between Dominique Wilkins and him. He jumps so
that guy, Dominique jumps over people and this guy actually
like has a method to his madness. And then I
(16:15):
appreciated him way more in Washington than I did in
Chicago sometimes because he had to do that with without
the athleticism anyway, and he could still get fifty just
reading screens and and and just being smart. And you know,
I talked to Dirk all the time and that, but
not all the time, but we like just watching Dirk
and talking to him. That's the difference between like a
(16:37):
Dirk and a Christaps Porzingis in the sense that Porzingis
could give you thirty, but Dirk could carry you throughout
a whole season, the whole playoff series. And that's hard
to do, and a guy like m J can do
it even at a higher level than that that those
guys that could put you on their back and just
(16:58):
be relentless at like winning games and putting them in
a position to win. Like it's just an other stratosphere.
When you're talking about a guy like Michael and a
guy like any any just any other player that could
put up thirty. There there's a difference between putting up
thirty and being Michael Jordan's obviously, but un once you're
there to see it, like straight up, it's it's phenomenal, man,
(17:21):
It's phenomenal. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart
Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. Most
overrated player in NBA history. Overrated player and can you
(17:42):
give me like five? Well, I'll give I'll give you,
I'll give you, I'll give you one. Kah. I was
actually a ball boy for U. C. L A at
times when I was a kid because Khalil Hazard was
a teammate of mind Travel ball growing up. So Reggieme
is a right player, right, but he's not one of
(18:02):
the seventy greatest players in the history of the NBA.
He was third Team All NBA twice, I believe. Okay,
So when I say overrated, I mean like I mean
I think Damian Lillards in that conversation as well, like
dam was a great player. We're talking the seventy five
greatest players of all time. You talked about top ten.
(18:23):
That's really hard gets arbitrary at the end, right, like
the ones you got in. I struggle with the Wilton
Bill Russell just we didn't see him play, you know,
Like what do we do with Jerry West? Like I
kind of think you'd do like eighty on, right, it's
a smart way to do it, or maybe an eight
five on and that's where you have. But when you
do seventy greatest ever play, like, how do you do it?
(18:45):
Dude to his third team All NBA twice? Yeah, I
mean I see what you I see what you're saying
on that. I'm trying to like just look at a
list of guys and just something that really sticks out,
like they look at it was a great play. Okay,
He's not better than Steph Cray, No, he's not. Okay,
So we do all the small guards right now in
(19:06):
the NBA, right, you just do small guards the NBA, Like, um,
or you know, I mean, is he you don't Lucas
not on that list, but should be. He's gonna be
by the time he's done, and like two or three
years to be like, how come Luke was on that list?
Right right right? And um, you know, I'm not a
big hardened dude because he doesn't play defense. But James
Harden had a better player for longer than Damian Lillard
(19:27):
has been a great player because in addition to scoring,
he's a far better pastor than Damian Lillard, is right,
So I would I would not would I would do that.
Kyrie Irving, I believe is a better He's a pain
the ass. He's a better player than Damian, a little
bit more accomplished than than David. My point is like,
I'm not trying to tell you Reggie Miller sucked. I'm
(19:49):
not a great play But the game has been played
for seventy five years. We just take the last seventy
five years and he was only third team All in
by twice. It just doesn't There's no there's no way
you can equivocate that he's one of the best players
in the NBA when he was never considered one of
the ten best players in the NBA when he actually
(20:10):
played in the end. That doesn't make sense with Scott
with Scotty a little overrated to you. Yes, yes, Darius
Daris Rucker is of course, yeah, okay, So I got
a great story. I got a great Darius Sucker story,
by the way, but go ahead, go tell me the
story and then I'll tell because I know his his
day anyway, go ahead, So like, so I go, um,
(20:33):
right before Girt's camp, I went with Rick Carlisle. Rick
Carlisle is gonna place in South Carolina, and uh, like,
we we go. We go to he's He's playing a
concert at this tennis spot in in in South Carolina.
So we we go because I'm a huge hooting the blowfish,
(20:53):
like we have crack. You got me through. I remember
doing those eleven weeks of camp and not really seeing
my my family, and I was struggling with it and
I would listen to that like repeatedly. And so we
go to his concert. I have a I have like uh, like,
you know, they got his credentials and stuff because Rick
knows them. So I go and all of a sudden,
(21:15):
like where they're after I don't really know what to do.
I'm just sort of hanging and I have my credential.
I'm already in a spot. I'm just waiting for Rick
to come out and go and like his dad, Darius
Rucker's dad is there and he goes, I can't get there.
I don't have a credential. I'm like, fun, take mine.
So I took it, and somebody was like warning us
(21:37):
about twenty minutes later. Oh, by the way, Darius, his
dad is looking for credentials and no one give him
one because I don't know if they had a thing
or whatever. And here I am fucking gave it to him,
like twenty minutes before I said, I got Rick. I
gotta get the funk out of here. Carlisle was like laughing.
He goes only you, bro, he goes only you. And
(21:58):
uh so, there's my Darious record. Story said, so here's
my here's my here's my Darius record when I first
met him. Story. Yeah, So I'm at ESPN. I don't know,
I've probably been there six or so years, seven or
so years and three years in I got an afternoon show,
afternoon radio show, and look, I'm fully okay with I
(22:22):
understand where I stand in the whole spectrum of things.
At the time, Mike and Mike was the biggest show
on radio. Uh, and then there was Dan Patrick and
Colin Coward. Those are the big three. Everything else kind
of in map. So that's how you kind of that's
kind of the mentality that you're kind of like those
the show doesn't matter here, doesn't it doesn't matter? Right?
So I played pick up all at Connord High School
(22:43):
in West Hartford every Saturday with a bunch of high
school coaches and a bigger duty about like six three
six four, got it knows like sideways right, not great
feat And he'd come and play and he was like
the greatest guy to having your team set unbelievable screens.
So afterwards I was like, you know, you're sitting there
taking off your shoes. I know what you do. He's like,
(23:05):
I run the concert venue, Mohagan Sun. I used to
be a boxer, so we started with boxing. We do concerts.
I was like, no ship, Yeah, so hey, can I
get your numbers in case? Like just a show you
no problem. So I happen to go home and look
up and like Darius is opening for Rascal Flats and
I was like, I like Rascal Flats all right, but
(23:25):
I love Darius without question. So I call him. I
was like, Hey, I'm in Uh, Darius Rucker is coming
in like two months. Could I could I get some tickets?
And you know, like I don't want to do the
meet and Greek, but if I could just go and
shake his hand, like that would make my make my world.
He's like, he's like, let me see on the Darius part.
No problem the tickets. So we get out, we go
down there, and you know, for the opening act, we're
(23:48):
sitting and it's a It's with the Sun play a
Connecticut sun play right and the Mohican Arena. And so
he's at the end and we're sitting in the first
level of seats, and right before the last song, he's like, Hey,
it's great to be back in Connecticut. Uh, my guy,
Eric Cacilius is here. I've co hosted Mike and Mike
with him. Shout out to everybody at ESPN. And then
(24:08):
he goes and hey, uh, Doug Gottleib is here. You
guys listen to Doug Godley. I I listened to Doug
go every afternoon when I'm picking up my kids from school,
Like he goes, I literallyst and it's it's awesome to
have him here, and and uh, you know, I'm getting elbowed.
I'm like, I had no idea unbelievable, right, like so
(24:32):
um so uh I uh so. Then my buddy comes
out and grabs me as he's singing his last song,
and I'm like waiting out there, you know, like fan boy,
and he's like, Buddy, you'll be out in the second. Buddy.
Buddy's just like a little swoll up black dude who's
his bodyguard. I think I've met him. I think I've
met him. Great, just do whatever, right. And he called
(24:53):
him Whitey at the time because because when when Darius
co hosted Mike and Mike, they did a it was
like Thanksgiving time and they did a uh pumpkin pie
or sweet potato pie, and Buddy was like a pumpkin
pie and they were like, dude, black, No black dude
should ever say punkin pie over steep potato pie. Everybody
knows that punkin pie is for white people. Because I
(25:18):
called him whitey anyway, So I go back there, say
He's like, the de'll see you now. So I go
back and I was like, uh, he's like from the
back of his like big dress rooms, like dog and
like there is it's like, hold up, my man comes,
sit down. I got money on Lakers sons and a
halftime line I took the over. It's you know whatever,
it's you know, it's like it's a hundred and two.
(25:41):
Hold up, it's gonna be close, right. And since then
we've been like we've been really good friends. I come
to a show, it's he's an amazing, mazing so and
I don't know Darius is gonna get mad for me
telling this story. But one time we're talking, we're having beers,
were watching, We're watching I think Lakers thunder in the
playoffs in his tour bus. Also he can say and
(26:02):
he goes, Scottie Pippen, mostly overrated player in NBA history,
and I go, thank you. Now, look, I love Scottie Pippen,
I love the Bulls, But like Scotti, Pippen was a really, really,
really a great role player, right, And everybody says, well, hey,
the first year without Jordan, they were like, yeah, okay,
(26:22):
don't want to dumpster five. Second year they were a
dumpster five. And then we're not taking account everything else
that was going on in the Eastern Conference, you know,
and the fact it was a you know, um, so
my thing is, I would agree with you. I think
he's a he's the greatest role player of all time.
He was the perfect fit for how they played defensively
out and he didn't he had at the time, he
(26:44):
didn't have the right ego. And what's happened is because
Jordan told the truth about him. Jordan I think oversold
who he was, right, and that Jordan's first he told
the shoot like, hey man, he quit on the team.
He was all bent up about the contract. He should
have got surgery early, and so you know, to balance
it out. He's like greatest teammate ever had blah blah
(27:05):
blah blah blah. Right, like he's a great player. I Darius,
and I would agree with you. Now. My thing for
Darius and he'll never tell, but he told me who
it is. I said, who's the Scottie Pippen of music.
He's like, oh, ship right, the guy who rode the
coattails with somebody really really good. Anyway, your Scottie Pippen
is or you want you're going, I would say, Scottie
(27:25):
Pippen you know, like I would say Bill Walton because
of his injury stuff, but like he's I think people
like overrate him because I think they want to see
what he would have been without injury. But I think
that he was the MVP before injury. But that's yes, yes,
and that's why I don't think he's overrated like that.
(27:45):
I think that Scottie Pippen being like everyone thinking like
he's in the top. Sometimes you hear about again I
don't care, but sometimes you think about being him in
the top thirty players. Are you fucking kidding me? Like,
like you gotta be able to harry a fucking team.
Barkley could carry a fucking guest Carmel and carry a team.
(28:05):
Claude Drexler carry a fucking team. And I think in
Ray Allen before he was carry a team to success. Yes, Harry,
team is success. Harry said to carry a team to success, yeah,
and I don't think. I don't think Petin can do that.
Was he a great defender, yes, for sure, like Kobe.
Kobe would study films of him defensively, like you know,
(28:28):
he much respect on his defense. But as far as
carrying a team to know, in Gess, I don't think
he did. Nah funk that, So I don't think and
you know, and then and then him just like yeah
he did sort of quick and MJO. He's going to
protect people to a point, but he's gonna tell you
the truth. And you know that's what he did. He
(28:48):
told the truth. And the image can you imagine that
like a dude like he the idea that you would
not want to go into a game at the end
of a playoff game because the play wasn't drawn up
for you. It's a look, be pissed all you want.
I get it. You're a competitor. But competitors they have
(29:09):
to draw the line. Is my actions fucking my team up?
And if you know it's sucking your team up, yet
you continue to do it, then you're fucking selfish. You're selfish,
and I don't give a funk that you're mad at
that point you check yourself out of a game. Again,
we talked about the Toronto thing. That's wrong for sure,
(29:29):
because you're asked to be in a game and you
check yourself out, that is not right for sure. And
he did that and he broke a fucking code. And
he is the most overrated superstar I've ever seen in
my life. Now now it is great. Um have you
seen Kad Holder, Yes, I have, and I'm not I'm
(29:51):
not buying. I think he's one of the most skilled
big men I've ever seen. But that body, to me,
I'm not a doctor at all, but the was the legs.
Forget about the upper body, because like Durant had a
really skinny upper body when he came in, and through
strength and maintenance he's figured out how to be strong
enough to be a great NBA player. The legs to me,
you know, he saw the same thing in Prosingis and
(30:12):
Porzingis works his fucking ass off for in the weight
room to try to get big. But when those legs
are that skinny, I I know, it takes you back
to Sambowie. It takes me back to a lot of stuff.
And again I'm not. I don't have no crystal ball.
I'm not a doctor. I have no idea, but I
am not buying that. I would probably take Jabari Smith.
(30:35):
I'm not a huge draft g. I'm not studying it.
Before when I see I like him and the Pablo guy, Polo,
I'm sorry, Paulo. Yeah, it reminds me of like um
um fuck place for Philly from Tennessee. Um yeah, Jabias
(30:55):
Harris a little bit, but again maybe I'm wrong yet
bigger like a scorer could play four four yeah, scoring
scoring for scoring machine. And you know, I think I
think the risky pick is is checked. Which I'm with you,
Like I sat next to a pretty well known GM.
I could text you it was no, no, don't he
goes he's a fucking hunchback, Like I just I've never
(31:20):
seen a hunchback. And he goes in shoulders of this wide.
You know, I don't know how you I don't know
enough about strength, you know, but how do you get
a guy's shoulders wide? Like? Can he play five at
that spot? I don't know? Can he play four? Yes?
He's skilled, but like, yeah there was there was a
lot of presingas there's some Presingkis talk Jabari is Jabari
(31:41):
checks the list of you know, Dad was a player
Dad is. His mentality is great. Who wants the ball
in big spots. He loves to get to those elbow
I so as first at all, he likes to play defense.
You know, he settles a little bit too much for
jump shots instead of getting you know, getting getting nasty
and getting downhill. We played big, we played more perimeter
in your opinion or does it matter? Two through four?
(32:04):
Two through four? But it's not like them out of
bio where he's like, uh four that could step out
and play. He's a three like you do you you think
he's more to three than you know, but he and
like he plays, He'll play in the post, he plays
in the elbow. I mean, he's like a modern that's
what a six nine modern players plays like. You know.
(32:26):
He detects all those boxes. And he's a year younger
than Paula, so that that that I think helps him
chats the heart of them. And then you got a
Nivy who's just a freak athlete, kind of has a
weird persona kind of weird. I watched him at Perdue.
I look, I thought he was good. But when people
were talking about inklings of a first pick in the draft,
(32:47):
I'm like, I didn't see that. But in these drafts,
to be honest with you, you want to come up.
You just want to like, you want to come up
with a player that's not gonna fail that I have
a chance to be a starter, has to be a
top three guy. Because there's not a lot of these
guys that are like bona fide number one's every you know,
in every draft anymore. So it's like it's hard to pick,
(33:10):
but maybe a guy you're you'd like, and obviously, uh,
Keegan Murray's the guy that that you yeah, for sure,
kind of a Sam Perkins sort of game, you know,
And he's not a guy with a lot of a
lot of ship to him, right like in terms of
like he doesn't overhandle it, like he gets and he
shoots it, he goes, he pulls up good teammate. I
(33:31):
don't know, he doesn't have I don't He's probably not
the ceiling of a I V if he hits, or
of a Chat if he hits, or a Jabari if
he hits. But like that dude's gonna be fifteen and
eight in the league and maybe on the right team
twenty to twenty two, you know, if he really keeps
getting going, because he also keeps improving as well. So
(33:52):
that's one of the in terms of the style of
basketball and the brain, the efficiency and the dad was
a player and being a grown up like all those things.
He's got. No, it's all good, and these teams gotta
because look, twenty five of these teams have no fucking chance, right,
twenty four of these teams, like, the only thing you
have is player development and player evaluation. Like I read
(34:15):
this book Dollar Sign on the Muscle was about a
baseball scouting book about the Phillies scouting department in the
late seventies early eighties, like Schmidt and all those guys,
and it was fantastic to me how they talked about
how important talent evaluation and and player development was even
back then, And it got me thinking about NBA in
college especially. But but college being all this transfer porta bullshit,
(34:39):
Like it's hard to really develop a team. But you've
gotta be able to get into a gym as an
organization and a pickout talent and then be able to
keep your head above water, keep on hitting these drafts,
and then maybe put yourself in position where if you
have cap room and the right guy says, you know what,
they're a winning team. They've got all these winning players.
(35:00):
Let's go, that's what you do. But all these fucking
teams fucked this thing up. Either their player developed usually
their talent evaluations decent, but the player development is fucking
Usually a nightmare, you know. And that's and that's where
these fucking guys dropped the ball, you know. Yeah, Hey man,
I really even more than gracious with your time appreciation Again,
(35:22):
How can people get get your service in terms of
they for you to do that the scouting for them? Yeah,
throw me, Throw me an email Mike at who consultants
dot com? Social Media? Who consultants? Um, go to my website.
Who consultant www dot who consultants dot com? You saved,
and you saved. Those Kobe emails they do and nobody
(35:43):
will ever read them. But there's about I thought there
was about like there's like five thousand emails and just
reading first of all, brings me to tears almost every
time I do it. Second, it's just like talking about
things and talking about years in Like I remember once, Um,
(36:05):
I remember once he emailed me back on something and
like he he had an unbelievable game and he told
me it's that was out of Oscar fucking Schmidt's playbook.
I mean, dude, the guy like we would like sit.
I remember one of the last times I was with
him two thousand and eleven, and where um he flew
me out because Mike Brown just took over the team.
(36:28):
It was right it was November. It was right after
right before they broke the stoppage to play. They the
work stoppage. They had the right the lockout, and he
wanted to go over a his film be go over
like Mike Brown's playbook of that like San Antonio Ship,
and you know, like we would sit for hours. First
(36:50):
of all, he played me the piano, which I like
he self. He said he self taught himself and I
do believe it. And then like he would be, oh,
I got a great one for you in this story
and the trip. So like we would talk about players
for I was talking about the game for I was
talking about godshamn God, talk about like Lamaro and Tracy
McGrady in high school, talk about these role players. On
(37:12):
top of talking about great players like a you like
you know Sunny Hill and Philly, talking about like all
this KMC seventies sixers, when they had like um, when
they had uh, what's his name? From Casey, they had
like Corey mcgetty, They had um, who's the fucking guy
that came out from Hargrave never made it? The big
(37:34):
guy six seven? Um brillly on young Coon Young like
those things, like he just wants to talk about Bob Gibbons,
like Tom Ponshowski want to talk about like the guy
was phenomenal also on that trip. So he brought me
out where I broke down all the film talked about.
Mike Brown talking about playbook worked him out. He tried
(37:55):
to take into some places at Irvine and workout. They
had all these cages in it. I said, kaybe, we
can't work out here. They're momen have corner shots. I
don't even know what what is it momentous I think maybe,
and we can't call Missy May. It's got like a
million courts, not even courts, they're like cages. It's weird,
like it was an Irvine. We left right away. He goes,
(38:16):
all right, we could work out of the j c C.
And this is like that's where that's literally where I
go kids at now, So here you love this one.
Social media was just coming out then, like Twitter was there.
Actually that week was the famous week where he started
his account, tweeted one thing, and fucking deleted his account
(38:36):
until a few years back. But so he goes, We're
gonna work out of the j c C. I say, KB,
are you out of your fucking mind? No, nobody, nobody,
nobody actually knows that place exist. Well it did. I said,
I guarantee you will be on TMZ. He goes, Mike,
that's fucking preposterous. We're not. So we pull up in
the back. They obviously like gave him like carboonlage. We
go in. They carved out a court for us and
(38:58):
we start shooting, and they just had a league game
or something that not that day. So I said, Kabe,
we're gonna be on TMZ. You fucking watching those my
no fucking ships. So we work out, We work out,
We work out. The next day, me and grow Over.
He put us up at Pelican Hill, by the way,
let the fucking nicest place in the history of mankind.
And so we're at breakfast, me and Grover, and all
(39:19):
of a sudden, it hits Twitter, TMZ link Kobe works
out with the Jews. So it has told me the
Yamaica and hat and it's got a fucking like the's
a Grooder film from fucking JFK of me working him out,
and it's like this, like look it up. It's like
me rebounding for him and him fucking shooting. We were
(39:40):
a woman up and some like soccer mom took it
on her phone back then. It was fucking hilarious. But
here's here, here's here's mine real quick on him. So
so I tweeted something because he did the I can
breathe and yea, I was being a smartass asshole like
the rest of us. And I was like, you know,
Kobe had tinted front windows, so in California you can't
(40:04):
have tinted side windows in front windows. And the first
time I met when I first left ESPN in two thousand,
Trouble moved out here and I didn't know he lived
that close. I'm at Starbucks and he rolls up and
like he's literally behind me in line at Starbucks. Yeah,
I was like, hey man, you know and then our
kids went to the same school for a little bit.
So uh so I choose something like uh like, I mean,
(40:29):
because as you know, he kind of the cops protect
him from everything in Orange County, right, Like he story,
we were doing about a hundred and twenty coming back
from a dinner and we got pulled over, like literally,
the guy was doing this in front of us to
get us over, hold us over Kobe like, hey, find
it out as Kobe. Koby says, hey, I'll grab you
(40:50):
a package. I'm sorry, man like sent them shoes, tickets, whatever,
but totally right. So there was like, bro, like you
live behind Gates and Pelican and you're you know, I
can't Breathe is like fun the police, right. So I
got called like the word Keith Oldman said I'm the
worst person on earth because of it or whatever. So
I felt I feel bad just because like I don't know,
(41:11):
you know, they're just talking ship. So I sent a
text to Rick Buker because I didn't have his I
didn't have Kobe's number. Lucas and as you know, as
you having said Kobe the holding Kobe is like he's
just like guys that didn't fucking bullshit him because everybody
else just you know, whatever you wanted. So I sent
a text so he gets me. Kobe's I go, can
(41:31):
you ask? Can you find out? It's cool if I
checked Covie yet prob I texted my a man, send
some ount on social media. You know, I don't think
you come across the right way. He's like, I don't
give like I don't give a fuck. We're good and
like black fist pound. I was like, all right. So
then fast forward, so I moved back to these coilsts
(41:52):
for CBS to move. I moved back out here and
I start we kind of restart my own program, and
our kids are again are going the same schools. And
I had seen him and stuff, and the cool thing
about the school that that like, uh, they're basically they
basically helped rebuild this the school was nobody messed with him,
like he was just Kobe, Like he with the kids,
(42:13):
you know, and the kids that come up to but
nobody's like coming up to him like autographs or hanging
around him. He's just got to be a regular dude.
So he starts texting me like the clips of his
of Gianna's team and drills, and hey, do you like
this because he knew my dad, Yeah, coach text. Sure.
(42:34):
We start sending clips of different so he's like, hey,
we gotta get together. So we had we had a
night at Javier's his spot, you know, yeah, and just
stories and it's the same thing, like the guy's level
of intelligence and recall and I have really good recall
was amazing, you know, not just games, but what he's
(42:55):
doing now and you you save the emails. I wish
I would have saved the text because I literally have
probably if I went to a T and two texts
between the two of us sending videos of little kids
drills and offense and scores and ship right, which is
(43:16):
like the it's the most bizarre stuff, Like you would
never think that a guy would be that engaged, and
he really was. And he was like, here's the because
I know that, here's the rebound screen cut. And I
was telling him, like, why are you running that triangle bullshit?
And he runs that anymore. You know, hey, hey, hey Doug,
he hated the fucking triangle. He goes, Mike, he goes,
(43:39):
you know how many years that took off my career
because you literally have to isolate, even though there's a
lot of cutting in and stuff, you have to isolate
and like, I want to come off pin downs. I
want to read screens isolation and spacing right, and but
all the movement is set based upon where the next
pass goes. Imagine him and split action, imagine him in
Golden States, split act like what he could do and
(44:02):
look for young players. This is the this is the
thing that really set me apart. With Kobe. So I'm
coming I'm coming to Irvine to work him out, and
I'm watching him, and I said the story a bunch
of times, so it's not like the first time I'm saying, uh,
he does this move eleven times in like three games,
in and out, crossover, step back, and and pull up,
sucking jump shots, So like, I hate that ship. I
(44:23):
fucking hate isolation basketball. So it's like, at the end
of our workout, it's probably like we did about two hours,
last ten minutes or five and ten minutes to say
a k B, let's go that in and out a
cross over step back we did. I think we've worked
out an equinox in Irvine and he he goes like
in and in and out cross of a step back,
and he goes, Mike, I don't work on that bullshit.
(44:44):
And I go, KB, you literally did it eleven times
in three games. It's almost unheard of a movie. He goes, Mike,
here's the thing. Here's the thing. The game is reactionary, Okay.
I master the in and out lay up, the in
and out jump shot, the crossover layoup, cross over jump shot,
the step back, jump shot, step back, pulling, front lay up,
he goes, I want to kill him on the first move.
(45:06):
How the fund can I work on a move with
three counters to it if I don't know how the
defender is going to react to the second to the
first thing. This is why players are funked up these days,
even young players that play with me on the Lakers.
He goes, they want to work on this ship, but
they don't know how the defender reacts to the first
And you kill him with simplicity. You kill him with
the in and out if they don't. If they don't go,
you go to the light, you go to the lay.
(45:27):
If they cut it off, you do something else. And
then if they cut that off, you don't. It's all reactionary.
So why the funk would I work on that? And
he goes, I don't work on any bullshit ball handle.
And we do this ball hand and routine words, and
I'll send it to you for your for your kids program.
It's all stationary. It's like he goes, Look, I don't
care about moves. I want to be a strong ball
handler to build the strength up and my muscle, my
(45:49):
function muscles that handle the ball to put the ball
where I want it when I wanted. So if I
have to go between the legs, I didn't work on
between the legs, but I'm strong enough with my hands
and forearms from pounding the ship out of it different directions,
and I could just do it without even thinking about it.
And for young players that work on all that bullshit
that's pre scripted, how the funk do you know if
(46:10):
the defender is going to react to that in a
certain way to go to that next calendar, like you
don't know? And that's what he fucking mastered. And then
that whole I mean, one of the weirdest things he
ever asked him to do. We it was like Game
five of the finals. It was three in the morning.
I wasn't staying at the Ritz with or the four
seasons where they were staying in Boston. Me and Grover
(46:33):
were like in the poc Plaza, like down the street,
so we didn't have iPads back then. I mean I
had it, he didn't, so I would. I would go
back and forth to his hotel room when he wanted
me to do stuff and like get like get certain
clips and things. He wanted me to break down and
send him diagrams of the Princeton offense. I said, KB,
(46:53):
it's game fucking five and like twelve hours from now,
I know, actually like nine hours from now, where it's
like four in the morning. What the funk are we
doing right now? He goes, you guys run the triangle.
He goes, I know, I know, but I think there's
a variation we could run and this and that. I'm like,
you're fucked up, dude, I'll do it. And I remember,
I remember just trying to find it. And then right
(47:14):
after that, he goes, I want you to look up
this game in like two thousand and one, Tracy McGrady
third quarter at Detroit, he did this move in the
mid post that I want to work on tomorrow and
shoot around and I'm like, dude, what the fuck. There's
no cinder. There was no synergy back then, so I
(47:35):
had to like, I don't know how the funk I got.
I mean, the guy was mine like a stale trap man,
and he's phenomenal, dude. He had the he had the
approach of a thirteenth man. Yet he was one of
the best players of all time, and they got players
today just don't understand, like he goes, he told me,
he goes, look you know what. The biggest scam going
(47:57):
is mom of mentality. And I go, okay, and he goes,
because I can't turn this ship off. He goes, I
wake up with that. And it's also everybody. Everybody, they
use it forever, they want to use it for It's
like dam thinks, my mentality is give me the balling
it other way, I'm gonna make a bucket. Like yeah,
except here's the thing. The guys studied everything on film,
(48:19):
but also at both ends of the floor. Yeah, and
and and and and even then, Kobe wasn't easy to
play with, Like listen, no, no, look he's not easy.
He's not easy. He wasn't even to play with Goblin.
But like his point was, you're gonna have all these
players tweeting the stuff out and then like even when
they do it, they have to have so much energy
(48:39):
to do it for an hour. Right, I'm cursed with it.
I can't turn this ship off. And he goes, and
people are gonna be scamming like they have it and
they don't, and like, yeah, it's a great thing and
all that, but like I just can't turn it off.
That's just me. And just like Bird couldn't turn it off.
All these guys like he can't it her off, and
(49:01):
he goes to the biggest scam going because like that's me,
and everybody's gonna I was gonna try to be like
that and have to put so much energy just to
do it for thirty minutes. Or they'll have people tweeting
it out that they're in the gym and they're not
in the gym at five am. And I'm actually in
the gym at five So you're the best. Have a
great day. I appreciate it, and uh, next time you're here,
(49:23):
we're getting together or oh yeah for sure. And by
the way, did you used to play those Laguna courts? Yes?
I we just went to the beat. Like so I
did some work for rep One, working out guys in
the draft and we we you know, my family came
out to visit me the last week. So we went
to all the beaches and we love Newport, but like
we went to New Word has about thirty eighth straight.
(49:45):
That's where we used to play out at full court. Yeah,
because because we'll Goona only has those three half courts,
right yeah, yeah, they redid them and people don't play
there as much as they used to. And I saw
some guy doing suicides there when we were there. I
have a picture of it all send it to It's
fucking great. But uh, that beach is not. It's not.
I just I love that that that part of you
could keep l A. Manhattan Beach is the only thing
(50:07):
that I'll keep out of l A. But that song
is the one. He actually was the one who figured
it out right. Yeah. Yeah, you get down there and
people leave you for the most part, you will leave
you alone. Yeah, and you know there's a reason that
the reason the tax is so high. Oh, no fucking question,
no doubt. I'd brother you the best. I appreciate you,
appreciate you. Thanks, But all right, wait, well it's three
(50:35):
three parts in a really really good series. My thanks
to Mike for all of his time and all of
his efforts. If you missed any of it, downloaded Part one,
Part two, Part three, Remember to download, right, review, rate, subscribe,
do all that stuff. Thanks so much for listening. I'm
Doug Gottlieb. This is all the number timber numberper
Hi, what u bomb? Doug Gottleiband, Welcome in. You're listening
to All Ball And this is part three of Mike
Procopio and Mike, of course is it was the video
scout for Kobe Bryant and part three this gets deep
into the deep, deep into the uh the stuff with
(00:23):
with Kobe pretty awesome and when we last a part
two if you missed it, revolve around at the end
Shaquille O'Neil first time you met Shack. If you missed that,
download part two. But I do want to get to
this this Kyrie Irving stuff because at the time that
this drops, Kyrie has asked for and received permission to
(00:45):
UH seek a signing trade, and to this point no
one has stepped up. But I don't know if he
comes with the Lakers. But here's here's what I can
tell you that we have this tendency to at players
simply based upon their skill. And that's great, okay, because
(01:06):
in football that kind of works, in baseball, that kind
of works. In basketball, it doesn't work. You have to
people ask all the time at my kids at work,
what do you love about basketball? Every part about it?
I love that you have to have five guys actually
working together at both ends of the court. And you
(01:26):
have to have guys that can come in and that
can work with the guys that are already in there,
and you have to have a coach who understands how
to motivate different people and get them to all play together.
And then you have to stop or be better than
another team who's trying to do the exact same thing.
It's an incredible sport. But if we've learned anything about
the NBA, the guys that are the most talented, and
(01:48):
really for the NFL as well, the guy is the
most talented. Now, I don't always win, don't often win,
don't often win. So I think this is a fascinating
thought on Kyrie Irving, and a lot of the league
seems to be saying like, you know, thanks, but no thanks.
Now we should factor in that Kyrie Irving, he doesn't
(02:10):
just want to sign a trade. He wants to sign
a max contract and then you can trade me. You know,
if you said, hey, I'll do a sign trade, but
I'm assigned for ten million dollars to be a two
year deal, I'm sure everybody would sign up a lot
more teams to sign up for that. But when you
factor in the comments that he made, the NBA is
not blind, effor dumb. They heard him say we don't
really need a head coach. They've seen how many times
(02:32):
he's been injured, They've watched how many times he's gone
often done his own thing defensively, and they're telling you.
No one is saying Kyrie Irving isn't an incredible talent. Nobody,
because that would be blasphey, that was a real stupid
He's remarkably talented. But can you win with him? Right?
(02:53):
Can you win with him? That's the difference. Can you
win with Kyrie Irving? And as much as we could say, well,
you know, Lebron one with him before he did, he
definitely won with him before. But they were down three one,
Andrew Boga got hurt, Draymond Green got suspended, they both
(03:14):
played incredible basketball. They needed a great block shot and
unbelievable three to beat the Golden State Warriors. And Lebron
liked it so much. He was the one who said
I wanted somebody else, I wanted he. The reason Kyrie
left was Lebron wanted to replace him after they won
a championship. What does that tell you the best, the
(03:37):
most talented players don't always win, and you could even
say don't often win, and that, I believe is one
of the telltale signs of what's up with Kyrie Irving.
He's unbelievably talented, remarkable skilled. You don't get that good
unless you work incredibly hard. But all that other stuff.
(04:00):
Who That's why it makes it really hard for any
of these gms to say, yeah, I'll sign up for that.
All right, let's get to Mike and catch up. Here's
part three of my discussion with Mike procopio. Whatever happened
to Eggie mccraige. He went to so Eggie, which I
(04:22):
was definitely afraid of because he was just this First
of all, he went to a million high schools and
like he played for Leo in like he ended up
going to supposed to go to let me see, yeah, Redemption,
Christian supposed to go to un l V, went to Redemption,
Christian didn't qualify, went to Dixie, got in trouble at Dixie,
(04:46):
and then supposed to go to un l V. Didn't
go to un l V, end up going to U
TAP and finishing up a you tap and then like
I remember you know. I'm sure. I'm sure you played
on a team or two of those. Like those teams
played the college teams in the preseason. Yeah, yeah, I
did it. BBC had one we played against like U
(05:08):
MASS and BC and UM in Northeastern. I remember he
like we beat BC. He had like a decent game,
and then we like we go to play Northeastern and
I turned around. I'm like, you're playing out there, like
he's there, he's eating chickens and doughnuts and he goes
down my feet hurt. I ain't playing And I was like,
(05:29):
ah fuck, and then, uh, you appreciate this My first
my first team after college. It was in the USBL.
I love the US. So they had a team in End, Oklahoma, Okay,
and uh Brian Gates was our coach's assistant the NBA.
Brian Gates, Yeah, okay, and he's like me, he's a grinders,
(05:51):
grinder and he actually I can't remember that there was
supposed to be a different coach was with the Mavericks
and he left I don't know, being a paid like
right with Hanker. Probably no UM anyway, So uh, remember
I never get this for and uh that my dad
(06:11):
told me I said that I called him and it
wasn't need it and need him was like an hour
from still Water, and we had five Oklahoma State guys
on our team. I was like the number one overall
pick whatever, and so we had we but we had
Willie Burton, yeah nin' picking the draft an NBA game, Okay,
we had um Bubba Wells led the country scoring with
(06:34):
a snow Valley. So great story with Bubba Wells. Portland's
used to go to Snow Valley. Yes, and they used
to put college guys to work as counselors and write
him out draft type guys Marcus Fizer and stuff that. Yeah,
go ahead, So Bubba Wells goot. Okay, Bubba Wells. Uh
le Bradford Smith. But Bradford Smith, I know the name Louisville, Louisa,
(06:58):
Louisa Louisa. Bradford Smith is the one who gave Jordan's
like thirty or thirty one and then watched Bordon and
then the reporters made it up like he was talking
shipped to Jordan's and George's like all right. They played
back to back nights, playing in Chicago the next night
and Jordan game thirty one in the first half the
next night right, and was talking ship to him the
whole time, and he want meet Jordan by the way.
(07:19):
Huh you meet Jordan by the way. Yes, So my
dad was text Winners assistant at Long Beach State. Okay,
though I met Jordan's his rookie year. They stayed at
the airport Marriott. I mean, this is like, this is
what the NBA used to be. And he had like
the foam headphones on the cassette player and he text
introduced us and we sat down with him and we
(07:41):
had like we had like cokes or something, and he
was so nice and he was like I was like
I was a little kid. I was like, what are
you listening to? And he goes nothing, he goes, he
goes sometimes I listened to his gossip. But I have
him on if he will leave me alone, if I
don't have mom, everybody comes up to you. I was like,
that's amazing. That was That was my take away from it.
(08:02):
And then I worked his camp at my year of
Notre Dame. What year, I mean what Santa Barbara Barbara.
I worked at like three four years in Santa Barbara
and it was phenomenal and he was he was he
was serving drinks at the bar. Yes, I never went,
oh he like some Irish bar, right I guess oh?
(08:24):
I had not like again, but like I was, I
was still like I've been kind of around and stuff,
but the social part to it, like I was, I
didn't know any of this stuff like existed, you know.
I was so focused on basketball, Like, wait, Michael Jordan's
as serving drinks at a bar, and so we would
go to Snow Valley and the coaches will be like, look,
MJ's running his camp down the street. Now, look the
(08:46):
camp is awful as far as the basketball, but MJ
plays at night. So you would drive down and we
would watch him play. The first year we went, I
was working Snow Valley in like yalloming uh Darius smiles,
Jay Williams, uh Luke Walton like he had all these
college all Americans working camp to play at night. And
(09:09):
that turned into Doug when I started working it, like
because George Raveling and his son was running the camp.
I was like George, like these college councilors don't do
anything during the day. Why don't we do stuff like
structured workouts like we do Nike. So we ended up
doing the structural workouts and funk, what are But the
biggest thing from that camp that I took is like
(09:33):
everybody would ask m J for ship like shoes, money,
whatever whatever, like so I would walk through because like
throughout the camp. Camps terrible because just because they're bad players,
but they allow you to get one thing signed through
and with m J. Like earlier in the weekend, I
still have my poster, Yeah I got I have the
I have the one where he's dug in at Chicago Stadium.
(09:59):
Yeah uh and like so like you get your picture taken,
and I remember I turned around MG and Michael, do
you mind if we talk footwork because I'm a big
footwork guy and he goes footwear And I saw the
look in his face like another fucking guy asking me
for something, and I'm like, no, no no, no, no footwork.
I'll tell you what, Doug. That guy talked to me
(10:19):
every night about footwork, right before the evening session. He
would come in the morning and he would come at
night and we would talk for about three or four minutes.
I would always come up to him. He would talk
to me about ball placement, jab reads, fade away, Like
the guy was a master at it and talking to Kobe.
(10:40):
Kobe was a little bit more open, but MJ like
as far as being introverted a little bit, yes, but
when he spoke was he really He was like, I
never forget I'm playing the first night I'm playing, and
I mean, if you look at me and you're like, no,
no fucking chance, right, and uh, but I know I
(11:00):
started a Notre Dame, so I had a little little
and I'm from West Coast, had a little swack people.
So I got I was in the second game, and
I'll never forget. Like I remember, I came down the lane,
I go past my guy and he's fucking standing there
and he kind of just like faked at me. And
I got rid of that quick. And there was like
a somebody called foul or something couple plays later and
(11:22):
I was standing next to him and he goes, if
you're gonna be a pussy, stay out of the game,
and I was like, all right, and so I just
hooked after that and it was really really fun. But
it was basically like that you can't be They'll be
scared to me, like either play or don't play, but
don't come out here, and and frightened because Michael Jordan's
out here and he was, and then you know it
(11:43):
would every game was like and and by the way,
like I played in the Magic pickup games, which were
awful because magic, Yeah, we just called fouls and make
sh it up and and like I get it your
magic and the U c l A. Guys are kind
of dicks, to be honest with the time, because they
were they had a role in the but um, but uh,
(12:03):
George was that was that like Tracy Murray McClane. Okay,
so okay, so that was a little before me. Okay,
so Murray McClean, Derek Martin Madson, like those guys were awesome.
Um and the other guys after that, the next guys,
I was, those are all like my contemporaries. I'm my
(12:24):
high school teammates, were my AU teammates for j R.
Henderson still stopped playing in Japan. Now he's coaching in Japan.
Chris Johnson, Christian Johnson who does his own own pot
he played, Um, those the guys who kind of Charles
was was cool. There was some of those other guys
in that era. Actually the team that won it right
(12:45):
in Yeah, and thyas gys was cool. But there's just
a like, look it was Magie showed up, he was playing,
and the U c l A guys are playing, and
then you know some of some of the other guys.
And part of it is also you mentioned the you teams.
When I grew up, there was like three big AU
teams maybe four, right, And we didn't like each other. Right.
(13:06):
We we played in in in the same league against
each other all growing up, and we didn't nobody switched
teams like you didn't like them. Right. So then all
of a sudden, now in college are being recruited by
these guys like, well, I don't want to go there,
Like Toby Bailey is my rival all growing up. I
have nothing against Toby now personally, but like they were
dicks and we didn't like them and they didn't like us.
Like now we're gonna play in the same college team
(13:27):
like no way, without question. So um anyway, um, so yeah.
The thing about the Jordan pickup games were it was
like every game was on repeat where he would be
competitive and really fun up and down, and then you
get to like the last couple of points and you
(13:47):
weren't you weren't if you he wasn't, if you weren't
on his team, you weren't winning, and it wasn't bullshit.
It wasn't like he called ball, he called foul. He
just get it and yeah, you double team and you
find the dude, or he'd make it turnt around, turned
the other way and they get fade away like he
was just. It was just every game was on repeat,
and it was almost like it was a movie set,
but it wasn't. There was no bullshit. It was a
(14:08):
real game and it didn't matter who was there. He
couldn't stop him when he didn't want to be stopped.
That's the difference between a guy that like, and that's
the thing like a Snow Valley. I I fell in
love with him, um and I'll tell you why. Like
I always thought it. Look, m J was fantastic, but
I never really broke him down like I always thought.
(14:29):
He was like Dominique Wilkins two point oh, like a
high flyer, big but much bigger winner than Dominique, of course,
but I didn't think about footwork or what he did
in the post or anything like that. I knew he
shot fade away. So my first night at Snow Valley,
I'm fucking tired of the motherfucker are we there from
six am to fucking ten pm? And all I think
we're just going to bed right. By the way, That's
(14:51):
where I became a really good ping punk player. Snow
Valley no value of course, yeah there you go, or
the Superstar NBA Superstar videos as well, of course of
oh yeah, and like Herb Livesey. First of all, Herb
is anybody, any coach or young players should look the
guy up. And the guy was phenomenal, but he was
(15:11):
a tyrant at his camp. He was literally like hiding
the bushes to make sure you're running offense and if
you funk around one bit, he'll come at you. So
I'm like looking for him. I'm tired, I'm going back,
and they're like, hey, we're just going to bed right,
and he goes, no, no, no no, A bunch of our coaches,
we're gonna go into my room and we're gonna break
down film Michael Jordan's I'm like the fund you're breaking
(15:33):
down like fucking dump videos Like no, no, no no, he goes,
not none of that. So they had like this like
videotape or breakdowns of his jab going right and like
setting up his fade away um, you know, like his
midpost games low post game is a perimeter game. And
I was like this for like two and a half hours.
I got my note I remember I didn't even have
(15:55):
a notebook at the time. I had something just writing,
not anything I could write on, and like that, dude
is there's a difference that And I said, that is
the difference between Dominique Wilkins and him. He jumps so
that guy, Dominique jumps over people and this guy actually
like has a method to his madness. And then I
(16:15):
appreciated him way more in Washington than I did in
Chicago sometimes because he had to do that with without
the athleticism anyway, and he could still get fifty just
reading screens and and and just being smart. And you know,
I talked to Dirk all the time and that, but
not all the time, but we like just watching Dirk
and talking to him. That's the difference between like a
(16:37):
Dirk and a Christaps Porzingis in the sense that Porzingis
could give you thirty, but Dirk could carry you throughout
a whole season, the whole playoff series. And that's hard
to do, and a guy like m J can do
it even at a higher level than that that those
guys that could put you on their back and just
(16:58):
be relentless at like winning games and putting them in
a position to win. Like it's just an other stratosphere.
When you're talking about a guy like Michael and a
guy like any any just any other player that could
put up thirty. There there's a difference between putting up
thirty and being Michael Jordan's obviously, but un once you're
there to see it, like straight up, it's it's phenomenal, man,
(17:21):
It's phenomenal. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart
Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. Most
overrated player in NBA history. Overrated player and can you
(17:42):
give me like five? Well, I'll give I'll give you,
I'll give you, I'll give you one. Kah. I was
actually a ball boy for U. C. L A at
times when I was a kid because Khalil Hazard was
a teammate of mind Travel ball growing up. So Reggieme
is a right player, right, but he's not one of
(18:02):
the seventy greatest players in the history of the NBA.
He was third Team All NBA twice, I believe. Okay,
So when I say overrated, I mean like I mean
I think Damian Lillards in that conversation as well, like
dam was a great player. We're talking the seventy five
greatest players of all time. You talked about top ten.
(18:23):
That's really hard gets arbitrary at the end, right, like
the ones you got in. I struggle with the Wilton
Bill Russell just we didn't see him play, you know,
Like what do we do with Jerry West? Like I
kind of think you'd do like eighty on, right, it's
a smart way to do it, or maybe an eight
five on and that's where you have. But when you
do seventy greatest ever play, like, how do you do it?
(18:45):
Dude to his third team All NBA twice? Yeah, I
mean I see what you I see what you're saying
on that. I'm trying to like just look at a
list of guys and just something that really sticks out,
like they look at it was a great play. Okay,
He's not better than Steph Cray, No, he's not. Okay,
So we do all the small guards right now in
(19:06):
the NBA, right, you just do small guards the NBA, Like, um,
or you know, I mean, is he you don't Lucas
not on that list, but should be. He's gonna be
by the time he's done, and like two or three
years to be like, how come Luke was on that list?
Right right right? And um, you know, I'm not a
big hardened dude because he doesn't play defense. But James
Harden had a better player for longer than Damian Lillard
(19:27):
has been a great player because in addition to scoring,
he's a far better pastor than Damian Lillard, is right,
So I would I would not would I would do that.
Kyrie Irving, I believe is a better He's a pain
the ass. He's a better player than Damian, a little
bit more accomplished than than David. My point is like,
I'm not trying to tell you Reggie Miller sucked. I'm
(19:49):
not a great play But the game has been played
for seventy five years. We just take the last seventy
five years and he was only third team All in
by twice. It just doesn't There's no there's no way
you can equivocate that he's one of the best players
in the NBA when he was never considered one of
the ten best players in the NBA when he actually
(20:10):
played in the end. That doesn't make sense with Scott
with Scotty a little overrated to you. Yes, yes, Darius
Daris Rucker is of course, yeah, okay, So I got
a great story. I got a great Darius Sucker story,
by the way, but go ahead, go tell me the
story and then I'll tell because I know his his
day anyway, go ahead, So like, so I go, um,
(20:33):
right before Girt's camp, I went with Rick Carlisle. Rick
Carlisle is gonna place in South Carolina, and uh, like,
we we go. We go to he's He's playing a
concert at this tennis spot in in in South Carolina.
So we we go because I'm a huge hooting the blowfish,
(20:53):
like we have crack. You got me through. I remember
doing those eleven weeks of camp and not really seeing
my my family, and I was struggling with it and
I would listen to that like repeatedly. And so we
go to his concert. I have a I have like uh, like,
you know, they got his credentials and stuff because Rick
knows them. So I go and all of a sudden,
(21:15):
like where they're after I don't really know what to do.
I'm just sort of hanging and I have my credential.
I'm already in a spot. I'm just waiting for Rick
to come out and go and like his dad, Darius
Rucker's dad is there and he goes, I can't get there.
I don't have a credential. I'm like, fun, take mine.
So I took it, and somebody was like warning us
(21:37):
about twenty minutes later. Oh, by the way, Darius, his
dad is looking for credentials and no one give him
one because I don't know if they had a thing
or whatever. And here I am fucking gave it to him,
like twenty minutes before I said, I got Rick. I
gotta get the funk out of here. Carlisle was like laughing.
He goes only you, bro, he goes only you. And
(21:58):
uh so, there's my Darious record. Story said, so here's
my here's my here's my Darius record when I first
met him. Story. Yeah, So I'm at ESPN. I don't know,
I've probably been there six or so years, seven or
so years and three years in I got an afternoon show,
afternoon radio show, and look, I'm fully okay with I
(22:22):
understand where I stand in the whole spectrum of things.
At the time, Mike and Mike was the biggest show
on radio. Uh, and then there was Dan Patrick and
Colin Coward. Those are the big three. Everything else kind
of in map. So that's how you kind of that's
kind of the mentality that you're kind of like those
the show doesn't matter here, doesn't it doesn't matter? Right?
So I played pick up all at Connord High School
(22:43):
in West Hartford every Saturday with a bunch of high
school coaches and a bigger duty about like six three
six four, got it knows like sideways right, not great
feat And he'd come and play and he was like
the greatest guy to having your team set unbelievable screens.
So afterwards I was like, you know, you're sitting there
taking off your shoes. I know what you do. He's like,
(23:05):
I run the concert venue, Mohagan Sun. I used to
be a boxer, so we started with boxing. We do concerts.
I was like, no ship, Yeah, so hey, can I
get your numbers in case? Like just a show you
no problem. So I happen to go home and look
up and like Darius is opening for Rascal Flats and
I was like, I like Rascal Flats all right, but
(23:25):
I love Darius without question. So I call him. I
was like, Hey, I'm in Uh, Darius Rucker is coming
in like two months. Could I could I get some tickets?
And you know, like I don't want to do the
meet and Greek, but if I could just go and
shake his hand, like that would make my make my world.
He's like, he's like, let me see on the Darius part.
No problem the tickets. So we get out, we go
down there, and you know, for the opening act, we're
(23:48):
sitting and it's a It's with the Sun play a
Connecticut sun play right and the Mohican Arena. And so
he's at the end and we're sitting in the first
level of seats, and right before the last song, he's like, Hey,
it's great to be back in Connecticut. Uh, my guy,
Eric Cacilius is here. I've co hosted Mike and Mike
with him. Shout out to everybody at ESPN. And then
(24:08):
he goes and hey, uh, Doug Gottleib is here. You
guys listen to Doug Godley. I I listened to Doug
go every afternoon when I'm picking up my kids from school,
Like he goes, I literallyst and it's it's awesome to
have him here, and and uh, you know, I'm getting elbowed.
I'm like, I had no idea unbelievable, right, like so
(24:32):
um so uh I uh so. Then my buddy comes
out and grabs me as he's singing his last song,
and I'm like waiting out there, you know, like fan boy,
and he's like, Buddy, you'll be out in the second. Buddy.
Buddy's just like a little swoll up black dude who's
his bodyguard. I think I've met him. I think I've
met him. Great, just do whatever, right. And he called
(24:53):
him Whitey at the time because because when when Darius
co hosted Mike and Mike, they did a it was
like Thanksgiving time and they did a uh pumpkin pie
or sweet potato pie, and Buddy was like a pumpkin
pie and they were like, dude, black, No black dude
should ever say punkin pie over steep potato pie. Everybody
knows that punkin pie is for white people. Because I
(25:18):
called him whitey anyway, So I go back there, say
He's like, the de'll see you now. So I go
back and I was like, uh, he's like from the
back of his like big dress rooms, like dog and
like there is it's like, hold up, my man comes,
sit down. I got money on Lakers sons and a
halftime line I took the over. It's you know whatever,
it's you know, it's like it's a hundred and two.
(25:41):
Hold up, it's gonna be close, right. And since then
we've been like we've been really good friends. I come
to a show, it's he's an amazing, mazing so and
I don't know Darius is gonna get mad for me
telling this story. But one time we're talking, we're having beers,
were watching, We're watching I think Lakers thunder in the
playoffs in his tour bus. Also he can say and
(26:02):
he goes, Scottie Pippen, mostly overrated player in NBA history,
and I go, thank you. Now, look, I love Scottie Pippen,
I love the Bulls, But like Scotti, Pippen was a really, really,
really a great role player, right, And everybody says, well, hey,
the first year without Jordan, they were like, yeah, okay,
(26:22):
don't want to dumpster five. Second year they were a
dumpster five. And then we're not taking account everything else
that was going on in the Eastern Conference, you know,
and the fact it was a you know, um, so
my thing is, I would agree with you. I think
he's a he's the greatest role player of all time.
He was the perfect fit for how they played defensively
out and he didn't he had at the time, he
(26:44):
didn't have the right ego. And what's happened is because
Jordan told the truth about him. Jordan I think oversold
who he was, right, and that Jordan's first he told
the shoot like, hey man, he quit on the team.
He was all bent up about the contract. He should
have got surgery early, and so you know, to balance
it out. He's like greatest teammate ever had blah blah
(27:05):
blah blah blah. Right, like he's a great player. I Darius,
and I would agree with you. Now. My thing for
Darius and he'll never tell, but he told me who
it is. I said, who's the Scottie Pippen of music.
He's like, oh, ship right, the guy who rode the
coattails with somebody really really good. Anyway, your Scottie Pippen
is or you want you're going, I would say, Scottie
(27:25):
Pippen you know, like I would say Bill Walton because
of his injury stuff, but like he's I think people
like overrate him because I think they want to see
what he would have been without injury. But I think
that he was the MVP before injury. But that's yes, yes,
and that's why I don't think he's overrated like that.
(27:45):
I think that Scottie Pippen being like everyone thinking like
he's in the top. Sometimes you hear about again I
don't care, but sometimes you think about being him in
the top thirty players. Are you fucking kidding me? Like,
like you gotta be able to harry a fucking team.
Barkley could carry a fucking guest Carmel and carry a team.
(28:05):
Claude Drexler carry a fucking team. And I think in
Ray Allen before he was carry a team to success. Yes, Harry,
team is success. Harry said to carry a team to success, yeah,
and I don't think. I don't think Petin can do that.
Was he a great defender, yes, for sure, like Kobe.
Kobe would study films of him defensively, like you know,
(28:28):
he much respect on his defense. But as far as
carrying a team to know, in Gess, I don't think
he did. Nah funk that, So I don't think and
you know, and then and then him just like yeah
he did sort of quick and MJO. He's going to
protect people to a point, but he's gonna tell you
the truth. And you know that's what he did. He
(28:48):
told the truth. And the image can you imagine that
like a dude like he the idea that you would
not want to go into a game at the end
of a playoff game because the play wasn't drawn up
for you. It's a look, be pissed all you want.
I get it. You're a competitor. But competitors they have
(29:09):
to draw the line. Is my actions fucking my team up?
And if you know it's sucking your team up, yet
you continue to do it, then you're fucking selfish. You're selfish,
and I don't give a funk that you're mad at
that point you check yourself out of a game. Again,
we talked about the Toronto thing. That's wrong for sure,
(29:29):
because you're asked to be in a game and you
check yourself out, that is not right for sure. And
he did that and he broke a fucking code. And
he is the most overrated superstar I've ever seen in
my life. Now now it is great. Um have you
seen Kad Holder, Yes, I have, and I'm not I'm
(29:51):
not buying. I think he's one of the most skilled
big men I've ever seen. But that body, to me,
I'm not a doctor at all, but the was the legs.
Forget about the upper body, because like Durant had a
really skinny upper body when he came in, and through
strength and maintenance he's figured out how to be strong
enough to be a great NBA player. The legs to me,
you know, he saw the same thing in Prosingis and
(30:12):
Porzingis works his fucking ass off for in the weight
room to try to get big. But when those legs
are that skinny, I I know, it takes you back
to Sambowie. It takes me back to a lot of stuff.
And again I'm not. I don't have no crystal ball.
I'm not a doctor. I have no idea, but I
am not buying that. I would probably take Jabari Smith.
(30:35):
I'm not a huge draft g. I'm not studying it.
Before when I see I like him and the Pablo guy, Polo,
I'm sorry, Paulo. Yeah, it reminds me of like um
um fuck place for Philly from Tennessee. Um yeah, Jabias
(30:55):
Harris a little bit, but again maybe I'm wrong yet
bigger like a scorer could play four four yeah, scoring
scoring for scoring machine. And you know, I think I
think the risky pick is is checked. Which I'm with you,
Like I sat next to a pretty well known GM.
I could text you it was no, no, don't he
goes he's a fucking hunchback, Like I just I've never
(31:20):
seen a hunchback. And he goes in shoulders of this wide.
You know, I don't know how you I don't know
enough about strength, you know, but how do you get
a guy's shoulders wide? Like? Can he play five at
that spot? I don't know? Can he play four? Yes?
He's skilled, but like, yeah there was there was a
lot of presingas there's some Presingkis talk Jabari is Jabari
(31:41):
checks the list of you know, Dad was a player
Dad is. His mentality is great. Who wants the ball
in big spots. He loves to get to those elbow
I so as first at all, he likes to play defense.
You know, he settles a little bit too much for
jump shots instead of getting you know, getting getting nasty
and getting downhill. We played big, we played more perimeter
in your opinion or does it matter? Two through four?
(32:04):
Two through four? But it's not like them out of
bio where he's like, uh four that could step out
and play. He's a three like you do you you think
he's more to three than you know, but he and
like he plays, He'll play in the post, he plays
in the elbow. I mean, he's like a modern that's
what a six nine modern players plays like. You know.
(32:26):
He detects all those boxes. And he's a year younger
than Paula, so that that that I think helps him
chats the heart of them. And then you got a
Nivy who's just a freak athlete, kind of has a
weird persona kind of weird. I watched him at Perdue.
I look, I thought he was good. But when people
were talking about inklings of a first pick in the draft,
(32:47):
I'm like, I didn't see that. But in these drafts,
to be honest with you, you want to come up.
You just want to like, you want to come up
with a player that's not gonna fail that I have
a chance to be a starter, has to be a
top three guy. Because there's not a lot of these
guys that are like bona fide number one's every you know,
in every draft anymore. So it's like it's hard to pick,
(33:10):
but maybe a guy you're you'd like, and obviously, uh,
Keegan Murray's the guy that that you yeah, for sure,
kind of a Sam Perkins sort of game, you know,
And he's not a guy with a lot of a
lot of ship to him, right like in terms of
like he doesn't overhandle it, like he gets and he
shoots it, he goes, he pulls up good teammate. I
(33:31):
don't know, he doesn't have I don't He's probably not
the ceiling of a I V if he hits, or
of a Chat if he hits, or a Jabari if
he hits. But like that dude's gonna be fifteen and
eight in the league and maybe on the right team
twenty to twenty two, you know, if he really keeps
getting going, because he also keeps improving as well. So
(33:52):
that's one of the in terms of the style of
basketball and the brain, the efficiency and the dad was
a player and being a grown up like all those things.
He's got. No, it's all good, and these teams gotta
because look, twenty five of these teams have no fucking chance, right,
twenty four of these teams, like, the only thing you
have is player development and player evaluation. Like I read
(34:15):
this book Dollar Sign on the Muscle was about a
baseball scouting book about the Phillies scouting department in the
late seventies early eighties, like Schmidt and all those guys,
and it was fantastic to me how they talked about
how important talent evaluation and and player development was even
back then, And it got me thinking about NBA in
college especially. But but college being all this transfer porta bullshit,
(34:39):
Like it's hard to really develop a team. But you've
gotta be able to get into a gym as an
organization and a pickout talent and then be able to
keep your head above water, keep on hitting these drafts,
and then maybe put yourself in position where if you
have cap room and the right guy says, you know what,
they're a winning team. They've got all these winning players.
(35:00):
Let's go, that's what you do. But all these fucking
teams fucked this thing up. Either their player developed usually
their talent evaluations decent, but the player development is fucking
Usually a nightmare, you know. And that's and that's where
these fucking guys dropped the ball, you know. Yeah, Hey man,
I really even more than gracious with your time appreciation Again,
(35:22):
How can people get get your service in terms of
they for you to do that the scouting for them? Yeah,
throw me, Throw me an email Mike at who consultants
dot com? Social Media? Who consultants? Um, go to my website.
Who consultant www dot who consultants dot com? You saved,
and you saved. Those Kobe emails they do and nobody
(35:43):
will ever read them. But there's about I thought there
was about like there's like five thousand emails and just
reading first of all, brings me to tears almost every
time I do it. Second, it's just like talking about
things and talking about years in Like I remember once, Um,
(36:05):
I remember once he emailed me back on something and
like he he had an unbelievable game and he told
me it's that was out of Oscar fucking Schmidt's playbook.
I mean, dude, the guy like we would like sit.
I remember one of the last times I was with
him two thousand and eleven, and where um he flew
me out because Mike Brown just took over the team.
(36:28):
It was right it was November. It was right after
right before they broke the stoppage to play. They the
work stoppage. They had the right the lockout, and he
wanted to go over a his film be go over
like Mike Brown's playbook of that like San Antonio Ship,
and you know, like we would sit for hours. First
(36:50):
of all, he played me the piano, which I like
he self. He said he self taught himself and I
do believe it. And then like he would be, oh,
I got a great one for you in this story
and the trip. So like we would talk about players
for I was talking about the game for I was
talking about godshamn God, talk about like Lamaro and Tracy
McGrady in high school, talk about these role players. On
(37:12):
top of talking about great players like a you like
you know Sunny Hill and Philly, talking about like all
this KMC seventies sixers, when they had like um, when
they had uh, what's his name? From Casey, they had
like Corey mcgetty, They had um, who's the fucking guy
that came out from Hargrave never made it? The big
(37:34):
guy six seven? Um brillly on young Coon Young like
those things, like he just wants to talk about Bob Gibbons,
like Tom Ponshowski want to talk about like the guy
was phenomenal also on that trip. So he brought me
out where I broke down all the film talked about.
Mike Brown talking about playbook worked him out. He tried
(37:55):
to take into some places at Irvine and workout. They
had all these cages in it. I said, kaybe, we
can't work out here. They're momen have corner shots. I
don't even know what what is it momentous I think maybe,
and we can't call Missy May. It's got like a
million courts, not even courts, they're like cages. It's weird,
like it was an Irvine. We left right away. He goes,
(38:16):
all right, we could work out of the j c C.
And this is like that's where that's literally where I
go kids at now, So here you love this one.
Social media was just coming out then, like Twitter was there.
Actually that week was the famous week where he started
his account, tweeted one thing, and fucking deleted his account
(38:36):
until a few years back. But so he goes, We're
gonna work out of the j c C. I say, KB,
are you out of your fucking mind? No, nobody, nobody,
nobody actually knows that place exist. Well it did. I said,
I guarantee you will be on TMZ. He goes, Mike,
that's fucking preposterous. We're not. So we pull up in
the back. They obviously like gave him like carboonlage. We
go in. They carved out a court for us and
(38:58):
we start shooting, and they just had a league game
or something that not that day. So I said, Kabe,
we're gonna be on TMZ. You fucking watching those my
no fucking ships. So we work out, We work out,
We work out. The next day, me and grow Over.
He put us up at Pelican Hill, by the way,
let the fucking nicest place in the history of mankind.
And so we're at breakfast, me and Grover, and all
(39:19):
of a sudden, it hits Twitter, TMZ link Kobe works
out with the Jews. So it has told me the
Yamaica and hat and it's got a fucking like the's
a Grooder film from fucking JFK of me working him out,
and it's like this, like look it up. It's like
me rebounding for him and him fucking shooting. We were
(39:40):
a woman up and some like soccer mom took it
on her phone back then. It was fucking hilarious. But
here's here, here's here's mine real quick on him. So
so I tweeted something because he did the I can
breathe and yea, I was being a smartass asshole like
the rest of us. And I was like, you know,
Kobe had tinted front windows, so in California you can't
(40:04):
have tinted side windows in front windows. And the first
time I met when I first left ESPN in two thousand,
Trouble moved out here and I didn't know he lived
that close. I'm at Starbucks and he rolls up and
like he's literally behind me in line at Starbucks. Yeah,
I was like, hey man, you know and then our
kids went to the same school for a little bit.
So uh so I choose something like uh like, I mean,
(40:29):
because as you know, he kind of the cops protect
him from everything in Orange County, right, Like he story,
we were doing about a hundred and twenty coming back
from a dinner and we got pulled over, like literally,
the guy was doing this in front of us to
get us over, hold us over Kobe like, hey, find
it out as Kobe. Koby says, hey, I'll grab you
(40:50):
a package. I'm sorry, man like sent them shoes, tickets, whatever,
but totally right. So there was like, bro, like you
live behind Gates and Pelican and you're you know, I
can't Breathe is like fun the police, right. So I
got called like the word Keith Oldman said I'm the
worst person on earth because of it or whatever. So
I felt I feel bad just because like I don't know,
(41:11):
you know, they're just talking ship. So I sent a
text to Rick Buker because I didn't have his I
didn't have Kobe's number. Lucas and as you know, as
you having said Kobe the holding Kobe is like he's
just like guys that didn't fucking bullshit him because everybody
else just you know, whatever you wanted. So I sent
a text so he gets me. Kobe's I go, can
(41:31):
you ask? Can you find out? It's cool if I
checked Covie yet prob I texted my a man, send
some ount on social media. You know, I don't think
you come across the right way. He's like, I don't
give like I don't give a fuck. We're good and
like black fist pound. I was like, all right. So
then fast forward, so I moved back to these coilsts
(41:52):
for CBS to move. I moved back out here and
I start we kind of restart my own program, and
our kids are again are going the same schools. And
I had seen him and stuff, and the cool thing
about the school that that like, uh, they're basically they
basically helped rebuild this the school was nobody messed with him,
like he was just Kobe, Like he with the kids,
(42:13):
you know, and the kids that come up to but
nobody's like coming up to him like autographs or hanging
around him. He's just got to be a regular dude.
So he starts texting me like the clips of his
of Gianna's team and drills, and hey, do you like
this because he knew my dad, Yeah, coach text. Sure.
(42:34):
We start sending clips of different so he's like, hey,
we gotta get together. So we had we had a
night at Javier's his spot, you know, yeah, and just
stories and it's the same thing, like the guy's level
of intelligence and recall and I have really good recall
was amazing, you know, not just games, but what he's
(42:55):
doing now and you you save the emails. I wish
I would have saved the text because I literally have
probably if I went to a T and two texts
between the two of us sending videos of little kids
drills and offense and scores and ship right, which is
(43:16):
like the it's the most bizarre stuff, Like you would
never think that a guy would be that engaged, and
he really was. And he was like, here's the because
I know that, here's the rebound screen cut. And I
was telling him, like, why are you running that triangle bullshit?
And he runs that anymore. You know, hey, hey, hey Doug,
he hated the fucking triangle. He goes, Mike, he goes,
(43:39):
you know how many years that took off my career
because you literally have to isolate, even though there's a
lot of cutting in and stuff, you have to isolate
and like, I want to come off pin downs. I
want to read screens isolation and spacing right, and but
all the movement is set based upon where the next
pass goes. Imagine him and split action, imagine him in
Golden States, split act like what he could do and
(44:02):
look for young players. This is the this is the
thing that really set me apart. With Kobe. So I'm
coming I'm coming to Irvine to work him out, and
I'm watching him, and I said the story a bunch
of times, so it's not like the first time I'm saying, uh,
he does this move eleven times in like three games,
in and out, crossover, step back, and and pull up,
sucking jump shots, So like, I hate that ship. I
(44:23):
fucking hate isolation basketball. So it's like, at the end
of our workout, it's probably like we did about two hours,
last ten minutes or five and ten minutes to say
a k B, let's go that in and out a
cross over step back we did. I think we've worked
out an equinox in Irvine and he he goes like
in and in and out cross of a step back,
and he goes, Mike, I don't work on that bullshit.
(44:44):
And I go, KB, you literally did it eleven times
in three games. It's almost unheard of a movie. He goes, Mike,
here's the thing. Here's the thing. The game is reactionary, Okay.
I master the in and out lay up, the in
and out jump shot, the crossover layoup, cross over jump shot,
the step back, jump shot, step back, pulling, front lay up,
he goes, I want to kill him on the first move.
(45:06):
How the fund can I work on a move with
three counters to it if I don't know how the
defender is going to react to the second to the
first thing. This is why players are funked up these days,
even young players that play with me on the Lakers.
He goes, they want to work on this ship, but
they don't know how the defender reacts to the first
And you kill him with simplicity. You kill him with
the in and out if they don't. If they don't go,
you go to the light, you go to the lay.
(45:27):
If they cut it off, you do something else. And
then if they cut that off, you don't. It's all reactionary.
So why the funk would I work on that? And
he goes, I don't work on any bullshit ball handle.
And we do this ball hand and routine words, and
I'll send it to you for your for your kids program.
It's all stationary. It's like he goes, Look, I don't
care about moves. I want to be a strong ball
handler to build the strength up and my muscle, my
(45:49):
function muscles that handle the ball to put the ball
where I want it when I wanted. So if I
have to go between the legs, I didn't work on
between the legs, but I'm strong enough with my hands
and forearms from pounding the ship out of it different directions,
and I could just do it without even thinking about it.
And for young players that work on all that bullshit
that's pre scripted, how the funk do you know if
(46:10):
the defender is going to react to that in a
certain way to go to that next calendar, like you
don't know? And that's what he fucking mastered. And then
that whole I mean, one of the weirdest things he
ever asked him to do. We it was like Game
five of the finals. It was three in the morning.
I wasn't staying at the Ritz with or the four
seasons where they were staying in Boston. Me and Grover
(46:33):
were like in the poc Plaza, like down the street,
so we didn't have iPads back then. I mean I
had it, he didn't, so I would. I would go
back and forth to his hotel room when he wanted
me to do stuff and like get like get certain
clips and things. He wanted me to break down and
send him diagrams of the Princeton offense. I said, KB,
(46:53):
it's game fucking five and like twelve hours from now,
I know, actually like nine hours from now, where it's
like four in the morning. What the funk are we
doing right now? He goes, you guys run the triangle.
He goes, I know, I know, but I think there's
a variation we could run and this and that. I'm like,
you're fucked up, dude, I'll do it. And I remember,
I remember just trying to find it. And then right
(47:14):
after that, he goes, I want you to look up
this game in like two thousand and one, Tracy McGrady
third quarter at Detroit, he did this move in the
mid post that I want to work on tomorrow and
shoot around and I'm like, dude, what the fuck. There's
no cinder. There was no synergy back then, so I
(47:35):
had to like, I don't know how the funk I got.
I mean, the guy was mine like a stale trap man,
and he's phenomenal, dude. He had the he had the
approach of a thirteenth man. Yet he was one of
the best players of all time, and they got players
today just don't understand, like he goes, he told me,
he goes, look you know what. The biggest scam going
(47:57):
is mom of mentality. And I go, okay, and he goes,
because I can't turn this ship off. He goes, I
wake up with that. And it's also everybody. Everybody, they
use it forever, they want to use it for It's
like dam thinks, my mentality is give me the balling
it other way, I'm gonna make a bucket. Like yeah,
except here's the thing. The guys studied everything on film,
(48:19):
but also at both ends of the floor. Yeah, and
and and and and even then, Kobe wasn't easy to
play with, Like listen, no, no, look he's not easy.
He's not easy. He wasn't even to play with Goblin.
But like his point was, you're gonna have all these
players tweeting the stuff out and then like even when
they do it, they have to have so much energy
(48:39):
to do it for an hour. Right, I'm cursed with it.
I can't turn this ship off. And he goes, and
people are gonna be scamming like they have it and
they don't, and like, yeah, it's a great thing and
all that, but like I just can't turn it off.
That's just me. And just like Bird couldn't turn it off.
All these guys like he can't it her off, and
(49:01):
he goes to the biggest scam going because like that's me,
and everybody's gonna I was gonna try to be like
that and have to put so much energy just to
do it for thirty minutes. Or they'll have people tweeting
it out that they're in the gym and they're not
in the gym at five am. And I'm actually in
the gym at five So you're the best. Have a
great day. I appreciate it, and uh, next time you're here,
(49:23):
we're getting together or oh yeah for sure. And by
the way, did you used to play those Laguna courts? Yes?
I we just went to the beat. Like so I
did some work for rep One, working out guys in
the draft and we we you know, my family came
out to visit me the last week. So we went
to all the beaches and we love Newport, but like
we went to New Word has about thirty eighth straight.
(49:45):
That's where we used to play out at full court. Yeah,
because because we'll Goona only has those three half courts,
right yeah, yeah, they redid them and people don't play
there as much as they used to. And I saw
some guy doing suicides there when we were there. I
have a picture of it all send it to It's
fucking great. But uh, that beach is not. It's not.
I just I love that that that part of you
could keep l A. Manhattan Beach is the only thing
(50:07):
that I'll keep out of l A. But that song
is the one. He actually was the one who figured
it out right. Yeah. Yeah, you get down there and
people leave you for the most part, you will leave
you alone. Yeah, and you know there's a reason that
the reason the tax is so high. Oh, no fucking question,
no doubt. I'd brother you the best. I appreciate you,
appreciate you. Thanks, But all right, wait, well it's three
(50:35):
three parts in a really really good series. My thanks
to Mike for all of his time and all of
his efforts. If you missed any of it, downloaded Part one,
Part two, Part three, Remember to download, right, review, rate, subscribe,
do all that stuff. Thanks so much for listening. I'm
Doug Gottlieb. This is all the number timber numberper
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Death, Sex & Money
Anna Sale explores the big questions and hard choices that are often left out of polite conversation.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.