Jeff Jenkins from Codeseven

Codeseven is an absolutely incredible band that everyone should listen to and pay attention to, full stop. They released a new record called "Go Let It In" that knocked my socks off and continues to do so. It only made sense to bring Jeff Jenkins, the vocalist of the band, onto the podcast! We toured together many moons ago and has always been an incredibly thoughtful and introspective dude and this conversation showcases that. We discuss why him and Tom Delonge are right about aliens, self reflection and of course JNCO Jeans. Pull up your brains and dig in. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
You're listening to one hundred words or less with Ray Harkins.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
What is up, everybody? How are you doing this evening,
this afternoon, whatever time you're listening to it. I hope
you are well. And I mean that truly. I am
so dang excited to have an old friend on the podcast.
His name is Jeff Jenkins. He is the vocalist for
an amazing post rock whatever hardcore rock, I don't know,

(00:46):
some amazing hybrid of what it is that they do
called Code Seven. Code seven is from North Carolina and
I had the pleasure of spending some time on the
road with them, playing some shows with them back in
the early two I want to say, and I've loved
this band ever since I got a first expose to

(01:06):
their division of labor EP back in the early hardcore
days as it were, because they have evolved their sound
over time. And yeah, their new record is absolutely just
astonishingly good, and I spoke about it and my honorable
mentions of twenty twenty three. It's a record that you
absolutely need to pay attention to. It just came out

(01:29):
on Equivision Records, and so yeah, you just need to
buy it listen to it like I mean, you're you're
not gonna be disappointed in that. The name of the
record is called go let It In. And yeah, we'll
obviously play a little bit of a song as we
head into the interview. But if you want to reach
out to the show, share some music, share some ideas

(01:51):
for guests, whatever it is that is on your mind,
where you want to have that burning desire, because I
know I have it. There are times or I'm listening
to a post and I'm like, oh man, I wish
I could like interject, or you know, you feel like
yourself talking out loud, you know the cars you're being like,
oh I disagree with that that point or whatever. But
you can email the show one hundred words podcasts at

(02:13):
gmail dot com. I receive all of thats. I love
to have the dialogue around whatever it is you agree, disagree,
or have ideas about love, that sort of stuff. If
you want to support the show for absolutely free, it
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a rating on the Spotify page. All those things help

(02:35):
out the legitimacy of this podcast to the world wide
Web of the Internet to be able to you know,
just let algorithms know that this thing is a legitimate thing.
And I have to let you know about a record
that I've been obsessed with. I've been doing these weekly
recommendations obviously, week over week on the show because I

(02:58):
just not only do I enjoy highlighting certain bands and
records that I may have discovered that you know, whatever
came out last year, it came out ten years ago.
Like whatever, there's no late to the party anymore. If
you find out about a band, dive into it and
embrace them. This band is called Tomb Mold. The record
is called The Enduring Spirit. Came out on twenty bucks

(03:18):
Spin last year. This actually was flirting with my top
ten at one point. I'm not much of a death
metal dude, like you know, that's not where I got
my my chops, so to speak, as I was, you know,
getting into you know, pulling hardcore and then eventually metal
because I mean I didn't start with like the metallicas

(03:39):
and Slayers and iron Maids and stuff. I came to
them at a little bit older age. And so you know,
even bands like you know, obituary or dying fetus and
that sort of stuff, like I've had to you know,
appreciate them later in my life. But so anyways, I
prerequisite I load that statement up by saying that fact
that death metal is is just not a genre that
I really lean in towards. But this Too Mold record

(04:03):
is so dang good. I mean, it's got all of
the elements of just you know, what classic death metal is,
I guess, but then there's a lot of you know, technicality,
there is just a musicianship that really shows song structures
and on top of it all, and I know this
is like the nerdiest thing possible, but I'm fairly certain

(04:25):
one of the guys in the band is straight edge,
just because I've seen you know, press photos of them
and he's wearing an x Watch, and I'm like, oh, man,
like playing death metal and being straight edge, Like I
just I love that, you know, straight edge and unexpected
plays or whatever, which again I know is like a
stupid reason to like a band, but at the same time,
it's like it's my own personal preference. So anyways, check

(04:45):
out the two Mold toomb Mold record. Sometimes it's a
little bit hard to say that band name. I will
put a link in the show notes to have a
weekly that's a weekly playlist where I toss all these
recommend nations that I've hit over the course of the
entire year. You can listen to it and then hopefully
you can discover new music. So that is what I

(05:06):
want to recommend to you this week. And let's just
go ahead and dive into the conversation with Jeff. He
is a very eccentric dude. I mean, anybody that's ever
met him or known him or read his lyrics, like,
you know, he's definitely not a you know, tried, true
front person, but he is so charming. He's so engaging,
like when you have a conversation with him, you are

(05:28):
locked in. And that is exactly what I did with
him here. And so yeah, let's talk to Jeff from
Code seven and please check out their new record a chance.

(06:05):
Prior to us, you know, sharing the stage together many
many moons ago and I think Canada, we did a
little East Coast run fun it was and prior to that,
I was already a fan of you and your band
and what you guys were doing. And I want to
say it was around the division of labor era where

(06:27):
I got exposed to you when I was working at
a record label and people were just like, Oh, you
love this, so listen to it. And I was immediately
captivated by the fact that you guys just seemed weird.
And I mean that in a good way. It was
like the singing and screaming stuff was just starting to
kind of filter into the you know, ecosystem. But the
way that you guys approached it, in my mind, was

(06:49):
very unconventional. And I know, most of the time, when
you're just you know whatever, late teens, early twenties, you're
just operating off of instinct to kind of trip onto
things that you like and what have you. But when
you guys were kind of going through that evolution of
like the very early era of Code seven to you know,
incorporating more of you know what what you were bringing

(07:12):
to the table. What like were you trying to just like,
you know, rip off all the you know, hardcore bands
that you liked, or where were you gonna deriving inspiration from.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Uh, It's it's funny you mentioned the word of instinct
just now, because that that really set me off. Made
me think a lot about like what kind of headspace
we were in at that time. Yes, we were trying
to emulate a lot of the contemporaries of ours, but
it was a lot of incident. There was a lot
of instinct. There was a lot of Okay, so you

(07:44):
got three brothers, right, and then you got Dave who
was the screaming vocalist, myself who was there screaming and
singing vocalist, and then Eric Wayer on guitar, and the
three brothers kind of already had something that was a
nonverbal language happening musically. They always have, and that process

(08:07):
of when Dave left the band and it was just
the five of us, there was a lot of instinct.
It was basically like the point at which Eric and
I sort of tried to act and think like the
three brothers in the band. So in that way, yeah,
there was a lot of instinct. But the contemporaries that

(08:29):
we were sort of trying to emulate, we always thought
they were weird, you know. That's the cool thing about it.
It's like we didn't think that they were doing anything
from a traditional format. We thought that they were breaking
boundaries with the music and trying different recorded whether not
it be recording techniques or you know how technology. Music

(08:54):
production technology was just changing so rapidly around that time,
and lots of bands were incorporating things and between themselves
and their musical instruments and between their music musical instruments
and their amplifiers, and you know, like adding more drums,
taking more drums away, taking drums away from you know,

(09:15):
the things. And then you just had people who just
kind of kept that punk ethic but at the same
time changed in all those ways that the technology was changing.
And I hope that that was us somewhere in the middle.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
There, No, it was, and I do think that you
I mean, especially as you start to iterate on whatever
it is you were trying to initially accomplish, because like
you know, every band when they start, they're just like, man,
it would be sad. It would be great if we
sounded like you know, Turmoil, Meat, Snapcase or whatever. And
then you know, by the time you release your first

(09:48):
sevenage you sound nothing like either of those bands because
you just don't like that. You just develop.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, and you know, having having having a producer or
someone outside the band to tell you just be yourself
is like one of the most intimidating things, you know
what I mean, Like it's like, wait a minute, I'm
still young. I mean at the time, I was a
you know, like a young person still trying to find

(10:14):
out who myself was. You know, I think every single
person in every single band has to confront that as
far as like what is my style of playing? You
know what I mean, Like, especially if it's something I mean,
I suppose you don't have to confront that if you're
just going to be a weekend warrior in a cover
band at a local bar. But if you're going to

(10:35):
make your own music and sustain yourself over a long
period of time, there comes a point which you just
have to kind of have that existential crisis of who
the f am I you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh? Absolutely yeah. And I think what makes you know
Code seven unique besides the fact that you guys were operating,
you know, in a scene that was a little bit
removed from a lot of what was happening, you know,
outside your major markets or whatever. But there was a
fertile scene. There is that, like you said, it was

(11:08):
operating off of this nonverbal communication that you know, the
brothers had with each other, and then you you know,
the band kind of permeates off of that where it's like,
then you start to have these relationships nonverbally with other
band members, and then all of a sudden, it's like
we don't even need to speak to each other, and
then all of a sudden, we're just like, you know,

(11:28):
creaking these songs out or whatever.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, it's and you know, like, what's funny is I
think that, Uh, as much as we don't consider ourselves
a like a jam band or a jazz band or
anything like that, there's something that those bands do that
I kind of have felt like we always do, which
is like we jam when we get into a room together,

(11:53):
we love to jam. And I'm just so happy with
that with our new album that we finally got a
chance to get together and do that again. You know,
over the years that we weren't getting together in room
and jamming, we were still best friends and we were
still hanging out with each other and like we were
all building our lives together as a unit of friends,

(12:15):
not under the moniker of Code seven, which was cool
because now we you know, like about two years ago
we got together and we were like, hey, let's let's
do an album, and like that was so much fun
to remember, Hey, these this family of mine, of these
you know people, We we forgot how important that was
to just get in the room and not say anything

(12:38):
but look at each other on the drums, give each
other you know, what is it? Stank face if something's
going wrong? Yeah, and you know, like this over excited, joyous,
jumping up and down when something's going right. We don't
have to stop the music and talk about it. There
was a lot of but prior to that, in that
time period that you're talking about, there was a lot

(12:59):
of stuff the music and talking about it, and that
you know that ultimately grinded on where you know, like
after we released the last album, Dancing Echoes, Dead Sounds,
I think a lot of it was done outside of
that format of getting together in a room and jamming.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
And that's where it's probably where things got weird. Sure,
and entering back into this process, we were emailing each
other's song parts for the most recent album. We we
kind of did backwards rather than just one day deciding, hey,
we're gonna write a new record, Let's get into this
room together and jam like it started out through a

(13:39):
series of text, angry text messages and you know, emails
of things, you know, like us, you know, belittling each
other's song ideas and stuff like that. You know, this
is awful.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Why would you.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Think that that sounds like orgy? Yeah, so you know,
like nothing real against orgy, but Code seven shouldn't sound.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Like orgy, right.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Anyway, you get my point, Like, it's like we got
we got the process right by going about it backwards
and working back into that format of hey, we sound
good when we're together in a room jamming, you know.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's it is very true because you
as you become a more and i'll use this air
quotes a professional unit, and you start to you know,
create in these different environments because of the way that
the band is touring and all these other outside implications.
Like when you strip it down to you know, it's

(14:40):
not some bolts, it's like, oh yeah, like what we
do is special because we literally, you know, put turn
loud amps on and you know, mess around with each other.
And you know maybe maybe out of the three hour practice,
we're like making fun of each other for an hour,
but like that's also productive.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
But out of that three hour practice, you got at
least two or three minutes or moments or whatever they
may be, of something capable and joyful and real. And
I think that's what's cool about us. I felt like we,
you know, every band could save a lot of time
if they just find those moments and and you know,
record every single time that you're together doing anything and

(15:18):
try to try to scrap those moments together into some
kind of uh, you know, try to craft it and
glew it together and some larger piece.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
So yeah, absolutely, and kind of putting the focus on
you as an individual, because I mean there's you know,
certain aspects of your life and more of just by
existing alongside of you and talking to you. But were
you actually born and raised in North Carolina or did
you come up somewhere else. No.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
I was born and raised in the town that we
all grew up in, Winston Salem. I was a north
side kid and the rest of the band were all
from the south side of town.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
So oh you were you were literally on the wrong
side of the tracks.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, I grew up family. When I was growing up,
my family had a racing business. I like to I
got used to traveling around the country at an earlier
age with the or at least you know, around the region.
I didn't go around the country very much, but you know,
when I was a kid, I would go like from

(16:18):
North Carolina as far away as like we would go
to Pennsylvania. We'd go to New York for my dad's
racing business. So yeah, and I remember that because my
dad had a race car. There were and and he
raced throughout the summer. He raced locally every weekend, and
there were times throughout the week where he would have

(16:41):
the race car testing in the garage, which is about
maybe about one hundred yards behind my house. It was
very loud throughout the neighborhood. So this was the moment
that I could crank up my amplifier in my room
and nobody would hear and ridicule because the racing engine
was just so incredibly loud. So that was kind of

(17:01):
fun to you know, like not have to play my
guitar at a minimal volume. I got to crank it
up as a kid, right, And I will forever because
my mom was in the house while that was happening
and not in the garage. I will forever be grateful
to my mom. Yeah, for having to put up with
you shook me all night long by ac DC that

(17:22):
many times.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
God, God bless her, God bless her.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
No normal parent would sustain that kind of abuse, you know,
from their child. But my mom was a trooper and
she always supported me. She's the one that took me
back and forth the guitar lessons. But yeah, it was
it was really cool. And so I was from the
north side of town and they were all from the
south side of town, and I got I got pretty burnout.

(17:49):
Not not that I was burnout on the racing or anything,
but I would remember as a kid when I would
go to these racing events with my family, I would
never watch the race. And that's kind of sad because
my dad put a lot of effort into that race car.
I should have been watching the race, but I was
always like walking around trying to find other kids with
heavy metal t shirts on.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Right, you were like, raising is cool and stuff, but like,
you know, where's where's the Black Sabbath shirts? Where's the
ECTC shirts?

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah? Well, I discovered some of my favorite bands that way.
Like I didn't know who Slayer was before I was
like ten or eleven years old. And being a ten
year old and having a mom who let you run
around the race grounds where all the concessions are and everything.
Seeing these kids with long hair, I was like, what
is Slayer? And then, you know, like little to my
mom's knowledge, I don't know how or where I would
have obtained a Slayer album, you know, like things things

(18:39):
like that, things like you know, I was like what
is at the first I saw it and I was
just like Sepultra, Sepultura. And then my life was changed, you.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Know, like, yeah, was there any Was there any? Uh?
I guess oper angling of you you know, continuing on
your father's footsteps as far as you know, doing the
racing biz as it.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Were, Yeah, there was. There was a big impediment there.
I was dumb as a lug when it comes to automobiles,
Like at age sixteen, you could have told me that
I had bad air in my tires and I would
have been like, oh no, you know, like you would
have told me that I need to get turn signal
fluid and I would be like, okay, where do I

(19:26):
get that?

Speaker 2 (19:28):
You know, just just work?

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, it wasn't taking it automobile. Yeah, I mean I
didn't you know, like I didn't know how to you know,
I've rarely had luck with cars. To this day, I
still don't really know what's going on. I think there's
just like little people inside the hood that make it
going when you started up and go. You know, So,
automobiles not my wheelhouse. But music and electronics. I've always

(19:58):
been fascinated with so, And you know, I think if
you mean following my father's footsteps the creative and crafting aspect, yes,
I'm very much like my dad. Whereas my dad was
into combustible engines, I've been into like small end electronics
and guitar effects and things like that.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Right right, You're like, I'm just doing this on a
different medium. It just happens to not be cars.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, it happened. It happens to be circumenting and modding things.
That's what I'm into.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
So right, this is this is random. But did you
ever get into you know, like ham radio and all
of that aspect of it or was that not part
of the journey.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
As far as electronics go. No, I wasn't really into that.
But I mean I was a senior in high school
and I failed my electronics class. At the time, I
was just not into it. And then a decade or
so later I started to really get into it when
Code seven was like touring and things that I started
to like want to know how these things worked. You know,

(21:04):
like every night we get up on stage, we plug
these things in and they get loud or they make
wacky noises, and I just wanted to know what it
was that was doing that and like kind of open
that field for myself. So I really got into circuit
bending maybe about you know, i'd say maybe early two

(21:26):
thousands to early to mid two thousands was when I
was really just like I want to tear everything apart.
Of course, I've been like that since I was a kid.
Like I can remember there was this giant Gi Joe
thing that my parents got me for Christmas when I
was like nine or ten, and it took them so
long because they put it together under the thing. I
was like, that took them so long to put together,
and I had to like torn apart that night on

(21:46):
Christmas night. It's like, I don't know why I did that, but.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right, you were just you liked the idea. And I
think that kids innately have this notion to either build
stuff or take apart stuff. But you, you know, you
really were curious because not only did your environment lend
itself to it, but then you were also just innately
curious about that stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah. I was thinking about it the other day. Ray,
It's really funny, like you probably did some dangerou stuff
when you were a kid, right, Like, of course you did.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, every kid does. Yeah, every kid does something stupid.
I think my favorite dumb thing that I did, which
you know, on a sliding scale of dumb things, is
like pretty low, but I definitely was. I wouldn't call
myself a pyromaniac, but I definitely was entranced by flames
and the idea of melting army men with WD forty
was amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yes, okay, I was there. My brother and I totally
did that. He was about five years older than me.
Perfect we totally did that. Yeah. One thing I thought about, though, Ray,
is like I it finally came to a realization this
past Christmas that I was I am lucky to have
all of my fingers because my dad's racing business and

(23:02):
the fact that he worked third shift and there was
a good three or four hour window from when my
mom got home and when my family all got together
for dinner, and my brother was usually off running around
with his buddies. I remember being alone in my dad's
garage with his belt, sander and grinder and making swords
and like Freddy Krueger knives and things like that, Like

(23:23):
I shouldn't have been allowed to do that, you know
what I mean? Like yep, if I was my dad,
I would have been incredibly mad. And then like I
think what happened is when my parents got a divorce,
my dad had to move all this stuff away, and
I think he found the that had that large fifty
five gallon drum, and for some reason, I thought that
it's gonna stash all of my swords and my dangerous
shit inside that fifty five gallon drum because she couldn't

(23:44):
really you know, like had a small hole inside of it.
I'm sure my dad found that and was just like,
what in the hell is this? Right?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Is what is my child doing with all of these
knives and these you know, instruments of torture?

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, because I mean there was just like scrap metal
land around as racing garage and stuff like that. I
should not have been allowed to do that. I'm really
if my parents are hearing this, they're hearing this for
the very first.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
You know, and sometimes it's absolutely better for them to know,
you know, thirty forty years in retrospect, rather than you
know in real time. They may have been concerned you
could not have played with.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Those knives still got my fingers.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
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heart's content. I wanted to ask in particular about I mean,
I know you're, like you said, when you were wandering
around the racetracks and kind of getting exposure to you know,
metal and stuff like that, when did the more I guess,
like independent minded stuff, whether it's you know, like Pond hardcore, Like,
when did that stuff start to matriculate into your brain?

(25:50):
And was it exposed to you via your brother or
was it you know, kids at school? What was the
vibe there?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Certainly not the kids it was. So my brother was
an influence on me. You know, my brother and his friends,
they often listened to things like Black Sabbath and you know,
like I mentioned, like ac DC I discovered pretty independently.
I discovered metal, heavy metal and thrash on my own.
And when I discovered thrash I was like, this is

(26:19):
what I want to do. When I first heard Anthrax,
I was like, no doubt, this is you know, and
then things like Megadeth and Slayer, I was like, this
is this is where I am, you know, this is
who I am. This music speaks to me. But there
was no one in my school really that got into
that except the kids on the soccer team, and so
I went to hanging out with the kids. I went
from hanging out with the kids that were just kind

(26:41):
of you know, they were drifting away from classic rock
into this sort of northern rural classic rock state of
mind that I was like, that's cool, but that's that's
not who I am. That's a little too close to
you know, like too close to the past. And I
felt like that thrash and metal that was my future,

(27:02):
you know what I mean. I could have stayed and
done things that were a little bit more hard rock oriented,
but I kind of evolved from that hard rock into
thrash pretty fast when I discovered Anthrax. And you know,
there was also the band Corrosion of Conformity, which they
were North Carolina band, and they I think I had

(27:25):
found out, Hey there's this he did you know that
there's this heavy metal band that came from North Carolina,
and I was just like what correct? And they just
they just sounded so massive, and I think that they
kind of helped usher me into what was punk and thrash.
Their early stuff kind of ushered me into that, and
from then on I was like, you know, this is
who I am and who I want to be. And

(27:46):
so I started working at a record store when I
was about eighteen, and I discovered other people who were
like that, and the guys in the band just so
happened to be those other people.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
That's awesome, That's awesome. I do love what you're talking
about in regards to discovering a band that is, you know,
from your area or local that will not only give
you a sense of you know, pride about oh cool,
like this band's from the town next to me, but
then it's also the connective tissue that you can pull

(28:17):
together where it's like, oh, yeah, they ended this year
or whatever, and then now you know, me and my
friends can kind of carry on the torch. Not like
you would ever be able to articulate that, but just
that that localness really really is inspiring.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I think whenever you're whenever
you're in that position, you sort of look like, hey,
the pond is a little smaller, you know, they're like
a big fish in a little pond. I think that
if you feel like you and the people that you're
your peers, whether or not they be your bandmates or
your band and other bands like sister bands, you know

(28:54):
what I mean. Like, when you feel like you're not
alone in that smaller area, that's when the fire is
really getting fueled. You know. That's what's created some of
the greatest thing scenes quote unquote scenes in the nation
and around the world is just that feeling of, hey,
this area we have something to be proud of, the

(29:14):
type of music and the the amount of artists there
are emerging from this area. I think that's what's kind
of fueled some of the best scenes in rock and roll.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Oh yeah, absolutely. And did you you know, as far
as your your academic pursuits, you know, did you care
about school? Was there a path for you from the
you know, that side of things, or was that school
just kind of, you know, an impediment for the things
that you were really interested in.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Probably the latter, Okay, I had about six months of
what would be junior or technical college studying architectural draft
and it's not for me. And then like immediately because

(30:07):
I uh, when I was in high school, we had
our high school was pretty well funded because Winston Salem
is where we're from, is like a big tobacco town,
and the high school that I was in was really
well funded for as far as like getting the latest technology,
and we had computers in our shop class, where my

(30:28):
shop teacher encouraged me to go to pursue after graduation
to pursue architectural drafting, said you're really good at this,
and I was like, yeah, Audo Cat's great. You know.
The program itself was like easy for me to use.
And so then I got to place called Guildford Tech
and discovered that they hadn't even integrated at that time.

(30:48):
It was nineteen ninety five and they hadn't even integrated
those Audo CAD technologies yet, and they wanted you to
immediately start working on a drafting board. And I couldn't
draw a straight line freehand, a straight line, you know,
and it was just like I couldn't couldn't figure out
these things that they were trying to get me to
figure out manually. And that was just about like the
first within that first three months of the school, Code

(31:12):
seven had developed completely and started touring. And like, when
I say touring, we were playing shows that would have
kind of like cut into the time that I should
be at school, right, And you want to know what happened,
It's like so funny. The following year after I cut
out of Guildfert Technical Community College. The following years the

(31:35):
year that they integrated that everyone must start out platform
of like strictly working with a CAD program on a computer.
And I was like, oh shit, right, I'm sorry, I
don't want to cut on your show.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
No, it's okay, It's it's completely fine. You can express
yourself however you want to.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
But yeah, like it, had that program been implemented at
the college earlier, who's to say, I might have just
fallen in love with it, you know. But the fact
that I'm working on discovering vanishing points and tangents and
stuff like that on a drafting board with a pencil
and a ruler. I was so much more into music
at the time too. I don't think I think that

(32:13):
I would have probably continued to pursue those architectural drafting things,
but the band was definitely not going to be as
fundamentally a part of my life. Had I just fallen
in love with architectural drafting and you know.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, absolutely. And so as you started, I'm guessing, where
is Code seven, like literally your first band or did
you have different iterations of things you tried to put
together prior to that.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, I had never tried to put anything together myself.
But I started out in a band that did, like,
you know, hard rock. Then I shifted immediately to a
band that did because I was also into industrial music
and like loud, gnarly stuff like I think around it.
About the same time as that discovered those other bands
that I mentioned, I probably discovered things like you know,

(33:04):
Nine Inch Nails and Ministry, and I was in a
band that did a We were like a cover Ministry
nine Inch Nails cover band kind of, but we had
a few originals and it was really great because the
guys were so sweet and they were so supportive when
I told them that, Hey, I'm also going to be

(33:26):
singing in another band while I'm playing guitar in your band.
So playing guitar in the nine inch nails and Ministry
type band was great. But those guys came to see
me sing and perform for the first time with Code seven,
and I thought it was so sweet how they let
me down like they they they let me down so gently.

(33:48):
They were like, they didn't tell me, and like, looking
back on it, I realized how terrible I was of
a guitar player, and they didn't want to tell me, hey,
you're a terrible guitar player, even though I was. But
they came to afterwards. They called me after they saw
the Code seven show and they were like, look, man,
we think you're a really great fit for this Code
seven band. And I was just like, oh, thanks, And
then later on I realized it's like, oh yeah, I

(34:10):
would listen back and I was like, oh yeah, that
was not good. I said that was me. That was
my guitar part that was sounding so bad. So it
was a nice way for them to tell me, hey,
you kind of sucks. Stay away from guitar.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Right right, And they let you down gently. They're like,
I think your talents are better use on another thing.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
And and you want to know something, Had they not
done that, I wouldn't be as okay. I'm really still
really close with one of the guys. We're best buddies.
His name is Mike, and Mike and I joke around
all the time. Mike was also a very big influence
on me at the time because he lived in another city.
And when I discovered Mike, I think Mike turned me
onto the band Tool and I will forever be grateful

(34:48):
for that, you know. But there were other things that, like,
you know, like Mike was great about doing and he
got me a job at a music store, he got
me he would just you know, he was so interest
about turning me onto bands that I'd never heard before,
and he was a few I think Mike was actually
a few years older than me, so the fact that

(35:08):
he and can I say his last name on the air?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Okay, his name is Mike Lawrence. And I would remember
going to his apartment for the first time and just
being like who He had this wall of CDs and
I was like, who are these bands? You know? And
Mike and I met actually because of an ad and
a local music periodical thing I was. I was really
big at doing that when I was like a teenager,
like looking at who's looking for a guitar player in

(35:33):
a band or something like that. Got it just because
I wanted to get out, Like I wanted to get
myself out there, and the you know, started establing to
my start making music. That's basicll on news. So it's
like I can't make music because of I don't have
drums and I don't have a bass.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know, right, you're you as a person, just like
spending time with you and stuff like that, like hearing
the drive that you had, like you said to I guess,
get out out and meet other people. You know, there
is that sort of push pull nature, especially of people
that get interested in independent music. Like not everybody is
a social butterfly. There's a lot of you know, introverts

(36:12):
that happened there where would you? I mean, I've always
You've always struck me as a person that, like I
would say, leans a little bit more on the introverted
side than the extroverted side. But you know what, like
how are you balancing that as you were like you know,
getting out there and meeting other people.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
H you know, I think that it's very very funny
you should mention that because I feel like there was
there were a lot of things that like I did
then that every person kind of has to go through
probably that every person that's like not being a kid anymore, uh,
and becoming an adult, you know, is a is a

(36:53):
pretty big hurdle. And just learning how to properly communicate
with people is so oh, this gives me so much anxiety,
the idea of you have to talk to people. But
then you know, like it's funny because we consider that
sort of like this, you know this, you know, this
area of like I need to get out into the

(37:15):
world and meet people. But at the same time that
that that just kind of instills, I think, and everyone
just a little bit instills a little bit of fear
because we're just so comfortable in our own skin, in
our own place. And if you want the truth, and
this is gonna sound like I'm endorsing drugs or endorsing marijuana,
I was not really high. I was really high a

(37:36):
lot of the times. And like I think that like
my perspective of being introverted may have been and may
have lent itself to being paranoid or you know, maybe
just sort of flighty and like I'm gonna stay in
the van, like when we would go places and I
you know, like hang out with other bands. Like I
wouldn't just immediately jump out of the van like hey,

(37:59):
we're here every I would like feel people out, you know,
and like, you know, just mainly just here's my rule is, like,
if somebody's going to talk to you and be kind
to you, you should always give them the same amount
of emotional investment in return. Otherwise you're missing out on

(38:20):
a lot of great opportunities to meet friends and make friends.
You know. And when we would tour, I always found
it was the bass player and the case of taking
it was in fact, Nick that I can recall meeting
the first time, and you know, Nick, who I can
recall making a very immediate connection with when we got
out of the van, you know. And it's just like

(38:40):
you can. You can meet people and make these connections
and also be introverted. But if they're going to give
you the investment, don't shrug your shoulders and kind of
stare at your feet, you know, look them in the
eye and shake their hand, you know. Yeah, as a
human being.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yep, yeah, no. And I think that's a very what
you're talking about. I Mean, there's a lot of elements
in there that are interesting of what you're saying, just
like the ability to you know, get outside of yourself
and like even if it's you know, the idea of
all right, I'm gonna get out of the van and
I'm gonna socialize a little bit so I can obviously
meet the rest of the people. But then to your

(39:17):
point when you're there being like, yes, you were literally
getting all of me, even though I know it's taking
a lot of effort to connect on that side of things,
but it's you know, you you start to be able
to develop a little bit more of a recognition of
what sort of person you are, and like when you
need to be like no, actually I do need to
be in the van because I can I can't handle

(39:38):
this right now, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah, you know. Another thing is that like I
when I'm on stage, like I was looking at older
pictures on myself and I was like, wow, I really
chose to dress weird. But then I look at pictures
of everyone else that I was with at the time,
and it's like I look normal, you know what I mean.
And things change, and you know, fashions change. But like,
the one thing that's always bothered me is when an

(40:01):
artist covers their face. I think the only band that
I would really like to do that, it's not Kiss,
It's Guar, you know what I mean. If Guar doesn't
have on masks, I don't want to see, you know.
Like I know that they did that Wold like X
Cops things, but like Guar is the only band that
I feel like is allowed to do that in my mind,
you know, right, I see bands that covered themselves up
and like that that to me, I feel like that's

(40:23):
like the hero's mask, you know what I mean. Like,
but like the fact that Code Sevan's music was exactly
who we are, I felt like, you know, I'm not
going to attempt to Uh. There was the thing about
when people had their I'm gonna I don't know if
you can see the camera, but people had their hair
like way way down in their eye and like.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Oh yeah, the swoop the swoop hair cut. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
I felt like I was like always, I was always
under pressure from outside people. Like there was a time
when I was a teenager and I sort of like
I was really into things like corn at the time,
and I think a really you know, right around the
time Code seven formed, or maybe even when I was
in this band, with the industrial band, I was thinking, like,
I need to get dreadlocks. So this girl I was

(41:09):
staying with at the time, she said, get you some
beeswax and put it in your hair. And I'm like
looking back at pictures of myself and I was like,
that is not who I am. Like I've always I've
always mastered the art of the seven year old boy haircut,
and every time that I stray from that, it just
looks awful, right, right, So I've always, like, since since

(41:32):
I discovered that, I've gone back to the haircut that
I had when I was about seven years old, and
I've just stuck with that.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
So right, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
And the type of clothes that I've worn, Yes, I
wore Jinkos, but there was a time where I discovered
that Jinkos were not also not how I felt comfortable anymore,
so I think rather than Jinko's, I'd always kind of
envisioned myself as the guy who wore camouflage pants, cargo pants,

(42:01):
camouflage cargo pants cut off at the knees, Like that's
that's kind of always been my personality, Like I always
get away with wearing camouflage, cut offs at the knees,
you know, right, just you know, like the fact that
I didn't never spend a lot of money on my parents.
I know that there were bands at the time that
were under a lot of pressure from labels to like where,
you know, where these these things that you know, like,

(42:24):
where are these designs that people have designed for you
and not not what's in your own closet. That's always
weird for me. So, like that's when you were talking
about like this impression to be yourself. I'm not saying
you can't be yourself if you do those things, because
obviously bands that wear masks are themselves, but that's just

(42:44):
not who I am. And I'm not going to knock
anybody else for doing that.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Right right, Yeah, You're not going to. If you try
it and you feel uncomfortable with it, you know, it
may take you longer because of, like you said, all
those outside pressures to not do it. But then the
moment that you don't do it, and then you feel
like you're like, oh, so this is actually me, like
me trying out this other thing that wasn't me.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, when you started to you know, tour and obviously
code seven. You know, you guys spent a lot of
time on the road, like you know, post to rescue
and everything like that. And did you take to touring
I guess easily or was that something that you had
to kind of you know, learn to like over time.

(43:30):
I was, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
I think I was used to the travel aspect of
it because of like traveling around with my family when
I was a kid, But I wasn't used to the
being a grown up part of it. Being a grown
up was very, very difficult for me at first on
the road. I relied a lot on the guys in

(43:52):
the band, and I was a mooch and I was
just a you know, a total crust punk of a
human being to be around. And you know, like the
fact that I probably went dumpster diving while all of
them were asleep to sustain myself on the road. That

(44:12):
was probably not very easy for them to deal with
all the time, you know, like it just wasn't It
wasn't a thing where I thought I could keep you know,
I monetarily and financially. I couldn't sustain myself on the road.
I was often in debt, you know, when to come back,
and that wasn't for you know, any exorbitant reason. It's

(44:34):
just I mean, there are a lot of things that
I should have invested with the band that I didn't invest.
You know, I was just kind of I'm just along
for the ride. And I know that was burdensome for
them in so many ways. You know, it is burdensome
if there's a band member that financially doesn't carry his
or her weight. But that was very unfortunate for them

(44:55):
that they had to deal with that. So I was
not a grown up. But yes, traveling, I love staying
in hotels or I love sleeping in people's floors. I
love showering in very weird places.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Right. Yeah, you're adept at the chameleon like nature that
sometimes you have to not sometimes, I mean most of
the time you have to adopt regardless of you know,
whether you're staying in hotels or not. It's like just
that idea of stepping into It's like, well, I'm gonna be,
you know, a river, and I'm gonna have to learn

(45:27):
when to ebb and flow appropriately.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah, And what I think is it's kind of cool.
Now I have a job where I get to help
bands feel like they're at home that's my job where
I work, So I work in a music venue and
get them, you know. Like we've kind of like centered
on the artists comfort at the music venue as one
of our key philosophies. And I think it's cool because

(45:51):
there's nothing worse than showing up to a music venue
and no one in the music venue cares why you're there.
No one knows what's going on, you know. So that's
like something that the place where I work we focused
to just really accentuate how important the artists are from
making them feel at home when they arrive and when
they leave.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
You need to point your web browser to evilgreed dot
net because they are an amazing web store solutions provider
for bands and record labels. But you, as the end consumer,
you benefit greatly from ordering from them because what it
means is that you can order shirts, CDs, vinyl tapes, hoodies,

(46:33):
whatever it is from a very specific point of view
of bands and labels, like they don't welcome everybody in
the door, they don't sell everything from every band. They
have a focus, Like I'm just gonna name some record
labels that'll give you a nice swath of who it
is they work with. Whether it is the Plesner, whether
it's Flat Spot Records, whether it's Metal Blade, whether it's

(46:54):
Neuro Recordings, whether it's Sergent House, Ven Records, Triple B
like goes up and down the board. But the cool
thing about it is, like I said, they have very
specific point of view, So if you listen to the show,
I can guarantee that you will like a lot of
the merch that is sold there. On top of it,
they're located into Germany, the shipping rates here in the

(47:15):
United States are very advantageous for us right now. So
order from them and I've got stuff here in California
in like seven to nine days. It's spectacular, and they
obviously ship worldwide, so that makes it even easier for you.
And you can order from all of these different bands
and stores and it's all in one spot for you,
so it makes it very very convenient. So go to

(47:36):
Evilgreed dot net shop away, like maybe just you want
to pre order the new Full of Hell record.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
They got that.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah, it's great. So anything that you were looking for
that's heavy and artistic they got there. Evilgreed dot net
Shop Away. Kind of on that same tip, when you
know Code seven was coming, off, like, especially after the
early releases with the music cartelsy you know, subsidiary of
your or not subsidiary the like I guess off branch
of Eric Records. That was always a weird label for

(48:06):
Code seven to be a part of. I mean I
understood why you were connected to it, but as the
business implication started to, you know, cook with the band,
where it's like even as simple as you know, like oh,
we're getting paid one hundred fifty dollars to play the
show or whatever. You know, how did you, I guess,
interact with the commerce side of things with the band?
Was that something that you kind of just kept that

(48:27):
arm's length, knowing that obviously it's happening and you endorse it.
But you know, how did your I guess relationship with
the business side go.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I was non present. I bore no factor in those decisions.
I was just always happy to be there. Those decisions
were usually carried out by the Tuttles, the three brothers
and Eric, and in the early days, those decisions were
carried out by Dave and the other guys in the band.

(48:58):
And when part of ways with Dave, we sort of
like that's when we sort of tried to you know,
like maybe we need a manager, and so our manager,
John Bambino, we ended up working with him, and he
just you know, he helped facilitate things so kindly and
so easy. But like there's nothing worse than having someone
in the band like me at the time, which I'll

(49:20):
tell you a story about, like going to meet with
this management team or something like that somewhere in Los
Angeles one time, and I remember it was like L L.
Cooljay's manager or maybe KRS one's manager or something like that,
but and I don't remember his name, but I remember

(49:41):
going into his office and like, you know, it was
so much in my mind, it was so much like
this like classic figure of there's a Boston song where
it's something about a guy like smoking a cigar and
like you see this guy, Hey, boys, you're gonna go far,
you know that, like classic character of a management manager.

(50:03):
Or yeah, there's a song called have a Cigar by
Pink Floyd. It's essentially like, yeah, you know, you guys
are gonna go far, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Right, you got something kid, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
And so like I maybe subconsciously like sabotaged the entire
situation because they had free coffee, and the lady just
kept bringing in coffee because I just kept emptying out
the coffee earned and I drank so so I just
pounded black coffee cup after black coffee cup, and everything

(50:39):
was great. The meeting was over, and like, I just
don't know exactly how I acted during that meeting, but
I just remember the funniest part about it all is
that like as we're leaving, the guy or somebody tells us, like, yeah,
there's a school next to us. When you guys are leaving,
it's gonna be letting out, like the school kids are

(50:59):
coming to be coming around, their parents gonna be driving
around to pick them up or whatever. So you guys
are gonna like as soon as you leave, as soon
as we pull out of this lawyer's parking lot, I'm
in the the van passenger seat behind the van, I'm
behind the the seat behind the passenger seat, like where
you open the door, roll the door back, and so
as these parents are picking up their kids where like
in that same line pulling out of the parking lot,

(51:20):
and I just opened that door and just this vile, black,
billowing river of nasty coffee just comes spewing out, like right,
these kids feet as soon as they're like and they're
all dressed in uniforms, like school kids uniforms and everything, yep.
And I I just remember like it was like like
guar projectile vomit of nothing but just black coffee all

(51:44):
over the place as soon as I opened that door.
And I mean, while that was funny, that was also
I was being a liability for the band. I shouldn't
have acted like that, you know, And I shouldn't have
drank all that coffee and then just like as we're
leaving the parking lot, just leave them mess all over
these kids while they're getting to their parents. I didn't
puke on the kids, but it was just like, eoh,

(52:05):
like what the hell, you know, Like kids are getting
in their car, like and here's this punk rock guy
opening up a door and puking all over the place
right right.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
No. I love I love that story just because it
is it. I mean, it exemplifies like there is that
real spectrum that exists in bands where it's like people
like you who you know, didn't have as much of
a connection with the you know, the business side of things,
but like you understood it was important. And then you
had people who were you know, like you probably joked

(52:38):
around where it's like, oh my gosh, like Jeffery, you
sabotaged this whole meeting because you drank like nineteen cups
of black coffee, Like what are we doing here?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah? And I feel I feel like, whenever, whenever the
idea of discussing those monetary implications of the band have
come up over the years, I will always deflect it.
It's like, oh, you need to go talk to him.
Somebody will come up to me at a club, Hey,
who do I need to settle with? Oh, you need
to go talk to him? Or hey, what you know
I heard you guys are working with blah. Oh yeah,

(53:09):
you need to go talk to him. But what happens
is when I meet these people, who are you know,
like on the business end of it, as people always
end up asking them like about themselves rather than the music.
And you know, how's your family, how's your kids? You
know that kind of thing. Yeah, by the way, do
you have kids?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
I do have a child? These weel yep, yes, yeah.
Well it's so it's so funny you say that not
to interrupt your train of thought, but like that is
literally that is like such a vivid memory of mine
to you where it's like you do kind of try
to push aside the you know, more superficial stuff and

(53:49):
you really try to be like, hey, I've got you
for five minutes, like I want to talk to you
about like, you know, the the like black holes or
the deepest, darkest intimate secrets that you're willing to share
with me, like not a you know, a yeah that's yeah,
but you And I think that that your natural inclination

(54:09):
to do that, you know, helps not only humanize you,
but like it really draws people into you. And I
think that's why, I mean, frankly, and I'm sure I'm
not the first person to share this where it's like,
oh yeah, Jeff, it's like, you know, kind of a
off the beaten path dude, he's kind of weird, like
he's he's out there. But like, I think that people
are disarmed by your just being like, hey, let's like

(54:31):
get into the real meat of it all. And I
think that some people don't know how to react to that.
I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Yeah. I ended up talking to some fans at the
show the other night in New Jersey about potentiometers. You
know what.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Potentiometers are no hit me.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, it's a knob on a guitar, okay. And you know,
I'm all about circumitting and stuff. It's just talking about
the most random stuff about circuitry and like you know,
resistors and compact masters and things like that. And I
don't even know why I was talking. I mean like
they were like, we really like your band, blah blah blah.
I was like, yeah, well, you know, like that's interesting

(55:08):
that you should say that because blah blah blah, and
like the story just spun off and it's just me
sitting there telling them about like, uh, this gadget that
I had that I was using on stage at the time,
and like how I made it myself or whatever, and
so I mean like that's you know, that's what you
care about. Yeah. I much rather talk to somebody about
something that's very valid rather than be the guy from

(55:29):
a third Eye blind who is just like, why isn't
everyone talking about me and the fact that I'm dating
this celebrity you know.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Right right, yeah, You're like that's not not only is
that not me, but that doesn't concern me? And you
know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
You know, I'm I'm learning. I'm learning to be a
little bit more out outgoing because I understand that, you know,
everybody has to do that in order to to survive
these days. It's a world of social media that kind
of like implores you to uh, outwardly push yourself and
create yourself in the digital framework of things. So like

(56:09):
we're trying to create more of a social media presence
and I think I'm going to be a part of
that going forward.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Nice, Well, I'm glad you're comfortable with that. There's a
few other things I wanted to hit on where And
normally I don't really ask the like, oh, you know,
songwriting vocal melody questions and stuff like that, because I
feel like sometimes I can get a little esoteric and
you know, frankly sometimes boring. But like your melodies that

(56:35):
you come up with are so inherently like code seven,
and like I know that it's difficult to be anybody
but yourself, but like this is just a real basic question.
But like when you're coming up with these melodies, and
I know you're working with your bad members and sometimes
producers to help, you know, coax out whatever ideas you
may have, but like, are you coming up with stuff

(56:57):
like you know, are you literally like humming them? Do
you hear it in your head? Like like I said,
I know, it's a sort of basic and maybe in
nane question, but like how are you coming up with
like the initial thought?

Speaker 1 (57:09):
That's that's a good question. And to answer your question,
I'm gonna flip it around on you, because now I
want to ask you Ray, when you're creating, when you're
crafting a song with your band, do you come to do
you there are points in which you have lyrics first?

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Correct? Yep? Correct?

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Okay, I have a kind of an equilibrium that balances
toward creating the melody first and then filling it in.
And this past album I kind of wanted to do
the opposite of that, and I think that helped me,
the fact that prior to I'd only been like, okay,

(57:48):
melody first, then fill in those points of the melody
with something that sounds phonetically similar to the way that
you want your melody to work. And that was cool.
But you mentioned the word esoteric. These lyrics were basically
just you know, not Jackson Pollock throne, but sort of

(58:09):
like sporadically thrown at the wall to see what sticks
and what's cool is if something like that means something
to somebody, that's great. But the only thing that I really,
the only content that I really focused on writing about
was you know, our sort of some of the or
at least initially writing about before creating the Melodies, was

(58:32):
sort of the some of the metaphysical things that had
happened to us, like concerning things like UFOs and ghosts
and you know, out of body experiences and you know,
just the paranoia of a real human being dealing with
some of those things. But during the past two years
the album, I've sort of like, okay, so I'm going
to start writing some lyrics and crafting lyrics first, And

(58:56):
in the process of doing that, like the melodies kind
of came fluidly through the rhythm of the pentameter, of
the meter of the syllables and the phrase that I
might be saying. You know, so that's kind of how
I crafted the last album. But prior to that, it
was all like, you know, melody and phonetic and throw

(59:16):
the lyric at the wall. If the lyrics seems like
it fits, then let's go with that, no matter what
it might mean, and if it has to mean something first,
it's probably going to be about Aliens.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Yeah, well, and that actually dovetails nicely into the next
question I was going to ask, because you know, I
think it's a prerequisite of everybody that ever speaks to
you or the band be like, dude, UFOs, that's crazy
you like aliens. And you know, I'm not going to
be pedantic about that because people have, you know, covered
that territory very well.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
I heard there's another dude out there that's in a
band and his name is Tom.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
I was literally gonna make the joke, how does it
feel to be validated by all of the you know,
evidence has come out to be where it's like, okay,
so you've got Jeff Jenkins from Code s Evan and
you have Tom DeLong from Blink what eighty two that
are right, everybody else is wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
I can I tell you something I please. Never I've
never laughed and loved that dude so much as when
I saw him wearing a shirt at one of their
shows that said something like I told you fuckers or something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
I was just like, yes, man, he well, I mean,
but at the same time, like he has his own
experiences and I have mine, and I think everybody, everybody
who's ever had an experience, has a story to tell.
And what's important for me is to allow people. I
love talking to people about it, and it feels great
being validated to answer your question. But there's still so

(01:00:44):
much more validation to happen. There's still so many more
questions to be answered. I personally have my own beliefs
and like have had my own experiences. But I think
it's so great that you asked that, because like one
of the most important things you could have asked me
last year. And in September of last year, late September,
everybody's like, hey, Code seven, we got some new album

(01:01:07):
coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
My mom was like, hey, Code Seven's got a new
album coming out. And I'm like, yeah, Mom, that's great.
But this Wednesday night, I'm hosting an event at the
venue where I work. It's an open mic event where
people get to get up and share their own supernatural
spooky stories. It's called Paranormal Night or Paranormal Stories Night.
And I host the event and just let people get
up there on an open mic in a supportive atmosphere

(01:01:31):
around people who are ready to believe, you know, And
the great thing about it is that I'm the guy
who gets to ask the skeptical questions. I'm the guy
that gets to debunk the story. But I'm not debunking
it because I'm your biggest proponent. I'm your biggest believer.
But I will ask people who had those experiences like
the same questions that I had been asked the entire
time I was having these, Like someone who's got a

(01:01:53):
skeptical mind would say, Hey, you think you saw a ghost?
Oh yeah, Well, how's the electrical in your house? Is
you have good wiring in your house? Or had you
had anything to smoke or drink that night? Blah blah blah,
you know, questions like that, Like you've got a house
that makes a lot of noise, Like you hear someone
walking around your house? Well, do you have a weird
heating issue that causes your house the furnace in your

(01:02:14):
house to bump or crack or whatever? You know, right,
And like you saw a UFO? Well, how close do
you live to an airport? You know what I mean? Like,
you know things like that, so you know, it could
have been an airplane, it could have been a hot
air balloon. But at the end of the day, I'm
always the biggest believer, and I always give that person
more validation because I believe their story and everything that

(01:02:35):
I ask them they can debunk because they know in
their mind that it really happened.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
So yeah, no, And I love especially the fact that
not only are because you know, there's definitely varying degrees
of interest in it. I know, generically everybody is like,
oh yeah, like you know, whatever I've thought about the
idea of ghosts, or I've thought about the idea of
you know, what aliens would mean, like everybody's confronted with
in pop culture. But for you to build it, you know,

(01:03:02):
like have a space in which people can, like you said,
feel safe. And then also you, being the biggest fan
of this stuff, are asking the questions that need to
be asked, and then in turn people like, oh yeah, Jeff,
actually you know I did check out the heating and
this didn't check out, And you're like, okay, great, I'm
glad we covered this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
You know, It's so cool because each year that I've
done this, or each time i've done it about maybe
about six years straight now, and each time I've done it,
it's always been so cool. It's always gotten so much more.
We've always had more people attend. And one of the
first couple of times I ever did it, that was
a guy. Because I have a little sign up sheet, right,

(01:03:41):
a little clipboard that you sign up and a little
blurb about your story so that I can introduce them
and bring them to the stage, right. So one of
the first times I ever did this, the dude There
was a dude there that wrote like bloody hook on
a car door as the blurb, and I went up
to him and I was like, hey, man, is this
like a This is a like a real story, right,

(01:04:03):
It's a true story. And it was something that never
occurred to me that I need to be asking people.
So that's the one requirement is that it has to
be true. Because like when I told the guy, I
was like, hey, this is a this is the same
thing as that urban legend, and he was just like
I was like, is this true? Did this happen to you?
And He's like no, And I was like, yeah, you
just want to scare everybody with a jump scare, and
that's not really cool. So maybe come back and share

(01:04:24):
this story on an open mic night, you know what
I mean? Not an open mic night about true paranormal encounters.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Yeah, no, totally, totally, this is not the space. Uh.
The last thing I want to hit on was the
fact like this Code seven and I know that. I mean,
if I'm the first person that shares this with you,
I would be shocked. But Code seven definitely, especially when
you guys were on the road and really you know,
getting yourselves out there, and you definitely were a band's

(01:04:55):
band where you were like a lot of bands loved
you not only musically, but then enjoyed your company on
the road, and you definitely you know, got put into
this space where it's like, oh my gosh, Like people
were ecstatic when they could play shows with Code seven
and whatever capacity. But then there was the you know,

(01:05:16):
kind of flip side that sometimes a band like you
guys could fit into where it's like, oh, here's a
band's band where it's like they're not necessarily and I'm
putting like a you know, a big business voice on
this where it's like, oh, they're not stelling any tickets
or whatever, but like so why are we putting this
band on here? And it's like, oh, well, you know Poison,
weall said we got a tour with them, or whatever,
and so like, I don't know if that was something

(01:05:37):
that was really in your you know, sphere of awareness
where people were like, oh my gosh, like we got
to take Code seven on tour and you're like, well,
I don't know if like we're really going to bring
anybody like our fans out there or anything like that.
Was that something that you, I guess, ever encountered or
is that all be just like sharing brand new information?

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
No, no, right, that's not new. That's that's definitely something
that we had to that caused a lot of internal
conflict in the band. I think as far as like,
you know, should we be doing something to make ourselves
more lucrative I guess the right word more uh economically viable. Sure,

(01:06:24):
But I think what happened is like, because we had
changed our style from being a heavy band to a
band that just sort of made made music that seemed
to be our our path, you know, like we started

(01:06:46):
to integrate things sounds that were you know, not all
riff oriented and not you know, breakdown oriented. I think
that that's a point at which people thought, well, you know,
there's not a market for this, and our target market
wasn't who we were playing in front of our target
market was the people who need these riffs and need

(01:07:10):
these breakdowns. And it just so happened that the bands
that we were playing with needed that realism of like, hey,
we shouldn't be afraid of what we can do that's
not riff oriented, even if what we do is riff
and breakdown oriented. And by all means, I love things that,

(01:07:33):
I absolutely adore things that are riff and breakdown oriented.
I love having music. And it doesn't matter that the
band Code seven shifted to start doing things that were
more mellow, because that's what we wanted. That's not what
we thought that it's not what we thought other people
should also do. So the fact that other bands were

(01:07:54):
choosing to also try some of those things was just
such a great feeling because it felt like Tide was shifting,
you know, bands like you know band bands that were
our predecessors and making that shift, bands like cave In
and you know, I can use so many other bands
as an example. We were really into indie rock at
the time, and like listening to bands like Jawbox and

(01:08:16):
Sunny Day real Estate and and things like that that
we just thought was pure indie rock. We didn't know
that it was this thing called emo. And when Emo
happened around us, people kind of like, oh, you guys
are an emo band, but you're not doing emo music.
What is that all about? You're doing You're not You're
not singing songs about girls. You're singing songs about aliens.
And you know, like, by all means, I've never been

(01:08:40):
a person who felt like I should be you know, singing, uh,
singing to someone's heart strings rather than just singing to
their soul. I feel like, you know, like, if you
want me to sing about a bad breakup, I'm sorry,
I don't feel like talking about that. But if you
want me to sing about other things that I'm very

(01:09:00):
passionate about, I do love talking about that, you know
what I mean? Yep. So like the fact that I
didn't really have I didn't have a lot to offer
in the way of emotional romanticism, I had a lot
to offer in the way of like this, you know, like,
have you ever tried a psychotropic drug before? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Right? Yeah? Well, and I think honestly, like you, what
you're saying hits me on a few different levels. Won
the fact that because you were playing you know, left
of center stuff, but it's still you know, was able
to be contained within the context of a you know,
capital R rock band or whatever. You know, it did

(01:09:40):
encourage other bands to either you know, be inventive or
iterate based on the fact that you know, you were
already out there doing that, and it was resonating with people,
like not to the degree of like, you know, becoming like, oh, wow,
we're going to be the next muse, because I'm sure
people absolutely place that on your mantle at one point
where it's like, oh, yes, here's here's what's gonna happen.

(01:10:01):
But to your point, you are influencing you know, bands
and creators in ways that you never would have been
able to if you were obviously, like you said, just
oh you want songs about heartbreak? Like I could do that, I.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I want to also blow
your mind, Ray here we go. What and it just
occurred to me when you're saying that, what if we
were one of the first dad rock bands just nobody
knew what it was called dad rock back then, you
know what I mean? Think about that? Huh wow?

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
No, well, I mean obviously your Boys of Summer cover
leans very much into that world.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Yeah, Well, Jeff, I genuinely appreciate your time and thank
you for letting me bounce around your brain, because yeah,
I just I've always loved you as a human and
admired your work as a musician. So it's great that
we could you know, quote unquote formalize this conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
For the Union.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Yes, that was Jeff. And of course I cannot let
of conversation go by without bringing up aliens because that
is like what he's known for, you know, him and
Tom DeLong do you know the number one and two
people out there just doing the Lord's work in regards
to making sure everybody's aware of aliens. But all joking aside,
I very much appreciate his time. I very much appreciate

(01:11:21):
Dan Sanshaw at Equal Vision Records for hooking this interview up.
He you know, texted me multiple times being like, hey,
let's have Jeff on him Like, yes, it's a great idea.
Then you know, drop the ball once or twice, and
then we made it happen. So big shout out to
all of the friends of the show and my own
personal friends as well. So let's talk about what's happening
next week. I have Ma Mehi Mehi. I'm totally just

(01:11:45):
like butchering Maha Mehi. Anyways, I've I totally mispronounced her
first name, but I'll say Mehe shaw Me from No Man.
She is the vocalist for No Man, who is an
amazing like virgin a hardcore you know, punk like just
a really good band. They're putting out their music on

(01:12:06):
IDEM Records. And I was excited to speak to her
because she is a Palestinian and she has a very
unique point of view in regards to obviously the conflict
that's going on over there right now. But then she's
also you know, very tightly ingrained with the majority rule. Guys.
She her spouse is one of the members of the band,
and she also did a ton of touring with Page

(01:12:28):
ninety nine. She's just been on the ground floor for
a lot of cool stuff and so yeah, I wanted
to have her on and that's what we do next week.
So mehe Shami from No Man love it. So until then,
please be safe for everybody.