1Upsmanship: Celestial Hard Drive Update 2.0

It’s that time of the year again! Michael and Adam decided to kick 2023 off with a bang and discuss the State of the Drive. In this special once-a-year extravaganza they each revisit five hard drive decisions they’d like reconsidered. Things get surprisingly heated as the two friends argue about whether they need to discuss Psychonauts ever again, whether the Hard Drive needs a morality clause, and whether being first or the most fine-tuned is more important for a game’s legacy. Major game franchises get slandered! Fundamental drive assumptions get patched out! It’s a must-download update for all our listeners!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
How looking to keepboord to delete it? The ultimate question

(00:28):
philosophers of gaming have pondered loath these many millennium long
before video games were ever invented, which is super fucking weird.
Hey everyone, it's Michael Swain and his buddy Adam Ganzer.
Say Hi, it's me and that was weird. Um, it's
weird that they did that. Uh, speaking of old timey philosophers,

(00:49):
can we just pre agree to drop the forgotten citty
off the hearts? Right? Okay, done, that's a done deal.
All right? Hey, this is one upmanship, a show where
two pals discussed video games, and specifically, you found yourself
in the hard drive what do you call it? Hard
drive retrospective once a year, once a year roughly, sometimes more,

(01:10):
but once a year. We've split it to, yeah, to
go through the hard drive and uh do a little
you know, pre spring cleaning sort of. Hey, did we
get all of this right? Are we happy with what's
on there? Uh? This is where we go back and
revisit some uh difficult choices that we made and say
do we agree with that? Or uh, you know, get

(01:31):
rid of some stuff that we're embarrassed was in there
in the first place. Uh sorry, if you follow the
the show, you know we do a thing every episode
where you decide whether the games should go on a
selest you'll hard drive that can only hold a hundred
games that will represent the medium of video gaming. Uh,
you know, like as if we were going to shoot
it into space. So you know, we also we we

(01:54):
have emotions and opinions and we bounce off of each
other and things change from day to day. I might be, uh,
what does Scrooge say, moldering from a bit of of cheese.
That's anyway. Uh, you might be but a bit of
mustard in my stash. Um, someone out there knows what

(02:14):
I'm referencing anyway. Uh. Yeah, this is where we go
back and we get to nominate saying, you know, I
either disagreed with you, my good buddy, and I want
you to reconsider eating your words possibly or I or
I reconsider what I thought I want to change it.
So this is where we get to go back and
change things. And as referenced, we so we each get
five basic like pitches. We have five pitches per every

(02:37):
time we do this, and uh, we pre agreed that
taking Forgotten City from a keep to a delete would
not count as one of our slots. Yeah, if you've
listened to the show, you know basically it is a
very good game. It's very fun. We got excited, you
know what I mean, sometimes you get we we we

(03:00):
talked ourselves into how clever it was, and in a
rush of foolish enthusiasm, we green let it. But then
we looked back at our list and we're like, you know,
the games that really have that aura of like a
timeless addition to the medium, like Super Mario Odyssey, the
Last of Us Portal too, and we're like Forgotten City
to really belong there. So that's a delete, But the
rest will be controversial. And if you were if you

(03:23):
are from the Forgotten City team and you were like
thrilled to be on the hard Drive, I mean enjoy
Well it lasted, right, all things must past there. It
will never not be true that you were on there
for a period of time. You just aren't now, all right,
So first I'll go first, But just like a couple,
I want to remind everybody some of the conversations we've

(03:43):
had about the rules. Yeah, okay, just just context. So
like one thing we decided last year, and I want
to bring it up again, is we don't make decisions
on what goes on the hard drive based on how
we feel about other games in the franchise or in
the series. Like, so we don't look ahead and say
that's the one I'll keep, this is the one I

(04:03):
would you know what I mean, Like, we don't do that.
We do do it sometimes we try not, That's what
I mean. Here's the thing about these rules. It's like
Star treking the prime directive. We talk a lot about
how it's the most important thing, but we still break
it sometimes and and and that's our part of what
we'll end up doing here is I think enforcing that
rule a little bit more strictly at least I think

(04:25):
that should be an ye yeah, yeah uh. That was
like the big thing we agreed on last time. The
other thing I would say is bringing up something that's
already been knocked down in one of these sessions is
a little bit fruitless. So I'm not going, oh, you
mean bringing up a thing a third time. I'm not
going to do that. Like, let's like the obvious would

(04:46):
be like keep pitching GT five until I just roll
my eyes and go, fine, dude, that's fine, Like that's
not what we're doing there. So I'm not going to
do that unless there's been some conversation between you and
I compelling reasons, like there's new context. Otherwise I'm not
going to do that. Those are the things I just
wanted to make clear. I love shooting random strangers. Now

(05:07):
do it now? Things are really that actor who plays Trevor,
though I've come to love him as an actor more
and more. He's in so much. He's really good too.
I think he's he always plays a creep, but he's great. Yeah. Yeah,
it's a great performance. But we're not going to keep
that game. We've gone over before poorly written material. So
I'm going to start with what I think is one

(05:29):
of the less controversial ones I have today. Okay, so
I've been replaying this game over the winter because there
was a big patch to it. Um. But the game
i'd like us to reconsider first springing Tunic back Baby.
I almost wrote it down for a bit. No, it's uh,
the Witcher three, The Wild Hunt. I've loved it, so

(05:54):
just a couple of arguments in favor of the Witcher three.
First is it's one of the better uh uh, one
of the better like open world RPGs, if not maybe
the best open world rpg it's very good. Uh, it's
very good in terms of traversal, it's beautiful to look
at to get around in UM it is consistently like

(06:14):
tonally well executed. Everything feels like it's in that sometimes
slightly humorous but mostly sort of morose and pensive tone.
That's great and they really nail it. UM. I think
the character of Gerald is a pretty good character, and
I think that we learn a lot about who he
is from not only the choices we make, but from

(06:35):
the situations that he ends up in, and they're all
really well crafted. Like there's a lot of moral decision
making in RPGs. That's kind of like one of their
big bread and butter things. I think The Witcher three
has some of the best of that UM. And I
would say in general, for like relevance to pop culture
if that's a category, and I would say it needs
to be a little bit of a category. The Witcher

(06:56):
three is one of the most important games in the
last ten years. UM. It's spawned a Netflix series which
has been a huge hit. It's based on source material
people really like. It is a great new fantasy. Uh,
I say new, but it's not that new property that
people are really a book series originally, and and more
than anything else, the side quests in The Witch or

(07:18):
three are stellar. They're still really good. Like they have
twist and turns you don't expect. They're well told versions
of folk tales that you may or may not be
familiar with. Um, it's a great game. I think it
deserves reconsideration. What say you, Mike? Um, First of all,
the Netflix series is mediocre. Okay, it's all right, it's fine,

(07:42):
it's fine. Uh oh, you won't haggle me up to
I like it? You do like? Fine, Okay, that's that's acceptable. Yes, So, um,
it's probably not the turn everyone expected. But I'm evering
a really horrible time in my personal life right now.
So I'm gonna like curl up into a fetal position

(08:03):
and just say that's fine. Everyone likes it, let it through.
But I'll tell you why I don't like It's fun? Yes?
Which are three? Is? The is one of the ones
that everyone's I just don't have it in me to
like argue about it. But uh, I just want to
ask questions. So when you say best open world, what

(08:26):
really got me. Was best open world RPG like period
like or do you mean medieval? Because Ghost of Tushima like,
does it beat Ghost of Sushima? For it? Does Sushima
is head and shoulders above which your three to me
for fun factor uh and interest in the story, although
I agree best side quests in the game uh in

(08:47):
terms of well, they do what the book series does,
and they do a hell Boy does, which is they
take folklore unrelated to only related by the fact that
he hunts monsters, and they go like, so here's a
cool little folk tale about some kind of monster man.
That's pretty cool. You can't really beat that for cool factor. Yeah,
I just hey, I don't find it that beautiful to

(09:09):
walk around the wedge of three realms b I uh
found the main plot good, fine, serviceable. See. I find
the combat and the complexity of the systems much like
Cyberpunk as well to some degree, um C DPR doesn't
know how to balance a game where you need to
use all the different things. They just know how to

(09:31):
do a big pile of stuff and shove it at you.
And that bothers me meaning in which are three? And
I think this will resonate with people out there once
your sword is good enough, why would you ever do
anything just slash the thing five types instead of four times,
Like you would never add the oils or all this
extra stuff. And to me, that makes it not even
an RPG, Like that makes it a failure. But you

(09:52):
can choose as a counterpoint. You can choose builds that
emphasize different aspects of the combat. Like you can be
a eight crossbow guy if you want to be that.
You can be a great signs guy if you want
to be that. I just feel like the best RPG
of all time? Would um incentivize those things? Like I
don't know, I'd give it to like probably Morrow Wind

(10:13):
or something like something I haven't played that I'm sure
are great, he said, letting the Witcher three on the
Drive mainly because of peer pressure. Boy, you really like
sense from the universe. Wait a minute, don't let it
on because of peer pressure. Standard we know. Another thing
about the Drive is because people have said or like
it has to I think this goes that saying when

(10:34):
you're analyzing pop culture. But sometimes wags will come on
the internet and go, you know, that's just your opinion, man,
And I just want to say, yeah, yeah, of course, right, So,
like I I find the Witcher three kind of dumb
the fact that it has body playing cards, and I
don't know, it's just I didn't get a lot of

(10:56):
not in this game. There are no body playing cards
in this game. That might have been a true in
the previous way. There's showtime style needs to add sex
scenes because of the because of the fact that the
books also do that. And I'm saying, here's a here's
a weird thing about me that can also make people
hate me. I don't care. I hate them too. Um

(11:19):
let's say, seriously, guys, it's rough at home. Um, but
what was I gonna say? Oh, once I had a
hardcore pornography available to me at any time I required.
And also beyond that, I've had sex x number you know,
believe I'm not to brag, but in excess of a
dozen times. Now that I'm in my mid thirties, right,

(11:40):
I'm like sex lacks the mystery that it had when
I was a cubescent team Meaning when I see sex
scenes in stuff that I'm watching that I am interested in,
like even Game of Thrones, I don't why do I
want to be horny? Now? This is a waste of
storytelling time. I'm here to watch a story. Like even
in Game of Thrones, I'm the sex scenes are literally

(12:01):
boring to me because if I wanted to go get horny,
there's other kinds of video content for that that's way
more effective than whatever. So like, to me, a sex
scene is philer material. Don't give him any hands, a
big knock against you, don't give any of that strange cocaine.
He wants the pure ship that it's the fact the
fact that it's baked into the Witcher universe that we

(12:24):
have to pause for sex scenes is really annoying to me.
There's all these little things that make it. I don't know.
I just didn't have. I played it through and I
didn't think it was fun. Everyone seems to like it.
It's an Elden ring for me. I mean, I appreciate
I guess I appreciate your generosity. Then uh, please something
you love, sir? You like that you want to convince
me on? Oh? Want to? Oh? Then I got a

(12:46):
minor I really had. So people are this is not
what people come to this podcast for. And Adams like,
what are you doing? Dude? Probably? But um, the love
the degree to which I can mask the emotional issues
I have is reaching its limits of some of its
seeping through. Um. And I say that because I'm like,

(13:08):
I think I only ship on stuff. No, here's a
positive one, all right, I'll go to my one. That's key. UM,
but I think it. Tell me if this breaks your rules,
because you said, and I don't know if I agree
with this that everything should be considered what not in
reference to other things on the drive. No, no, no,
I don't want Horse Trader, and I also want not

(13:29):
not pending on Like you don't make a decision on
the game keep this game based on a ruling you're
gonna make later on a game in that franchise that
yet ah, So let me just say this sequence of events,
and you tell me if me bringing this up breaks
that rule in your mind. Psycho Naots was deleted assuming
uh that we would keep two, and then when we

(13:52):
did cover two, Adam and the guests did try to
keep it, and I blocked it because I was like,
I didn't like it as much as one. So I
am now officially using my slot to lobby to keep
one Psychonauts one. So you want me to undo my change?
The change I made you retroactively deleted Psychonauts one in

(14:14):
the interests of keeping Psychonauts too. And I'm going ballsy
and arguing that we should keep Psychoonauts one, and I'll
explain why, but I will also admit that if you
block it, then next time we do this, I'll argue
that we keep Psychonauts too, and I'll take back my delete,
But I still think we should keep one after imbibing
both again back to back. Um, just because Psychonauts Too

(14:39):
is a refinement of what they did in one. It
took like twelve years or whatever to come out, and
I do believe that in some cases refinement is what's
really key to a game success and in some case
or a piece of art success, And in some cases
it's the idea. And I really think Psychonauts is more
about the idea. Uh Like, when you go wow about Psychonauts,

(15:02):
as we've discussed and I eventually admitted, it's not that
the game plays the tightest gameplay you've ever platformed. It's
the idea of going into each other's heads. Oh and
when you go into their heads, you learn secrets about
them that illuminate their characters. Very clever way to dispense story.
Oh you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And my
point being, um, all the cool stuff to me, like

(15:25):
the collective unconscious being how you link the levels together
and revisit old chapters and figments of your imagination being
the collectible and you know, all these references to emotional
baggage is literalized. And that's just like the Yoshi coins
you can pick up each level if you get enough
emotional own baggage, it unlocks a little slide show of

(15:46):
there of something illuminating about that character psyche blah blah
blah blah blah. All the cool stuff. Sorry. Last one
that comes to mind always, um teleporting being a balloon
instead of actually just levitating. I thought that was so cool. Um,
that's all president in one, And even though two builds
on it and is a great story and does it

(16:06):
even better, actually thought the supporting cast in one was
more compelling. The supporting cast in two is more cookie cutter,
and raz is more is just as enjoyable and two
as he is in one, and so is crueler. Like
everything that's special about the franchise I believe exists in
one and in those cases I try to give it
to one because I do think there's something about birthing

(16:29):
the initial thing, whereas there are other cases where I
do believe something like Assassin's Creed is maybe the poster child.
A franchise is designed to be iterative, and you look
at it almost like wines, where you're like, this was
a good year. This was a good year. But you
don't have to pick oh the you know, Assassin's Creed
one is not necessarily the best Assassin's Creed, I think

(16:51):
we can all agree, whereas I do think Psychonauts one
is the real work of artistic genius here man. Uh well, no,
I don't disagree with what you did here. I think
it's fine. Um, I'm gonna tell you something that's fine. Yeah, yeah,
that was a good argument for it. Um, I agree

(17:13):
with your statement about most of the innovative things are
in Psychoonuts. To the reason I deleted it was that
it wasn't I didn't enjoy it that much. Uh like
I didn't have fun playing it? Um. I did was
that because of the of the three D platforming. If
I were, and I mean I have strong feelings about
three D platformers, I guess is the thing I'm realizing

(17:34):
based on a few of the entries here and then
some stuff we're kinda and it's funny because would you
agree that it's like scent tight, But man, three D
platformer really needs to the windows. It's an art the
window is very narrow. Um. Yeah. And also I think
there's just there's something about nostalgia and three D platforms

(17:57):
I'm finding too because like, go back and play Mario
Brothers one, and it's really hard to play, and yet
it would be hard for me to to if we
ever covered it on this podcast, to delete it, because like, dude,
this is like this is the best video game ever
when it came out, and it's like defined video games
come on now. Like that's how I feel about even
though it's not that great to play now, I mean

(18:19):
that's the truth. Um, And a refinement in that case
was a lot better. Super Mario three is a lot
better than Super Mario Brothers. Anyway. Point being, there's multiple
games on the list where if you strictly cared about
how tight is this gameplay compared to modern standards, it
wouldn't it wouldn't. See you're right, right, You're right, It's
not always the bar, I really think, um and correct

(18:40):
me if I'm wrong. I really think Psycho Nuts two
had some creative ludo narrative stuff that like actually made
it a little better to me than Psycho Nuts. Did
I agree? I think they squeezed out five or six
more cool ideas. I'm just saying the lion's share of
the ideas were present, and then they squeezed out a
few more. So then I guess what I mean. Are

(19:00):
also I guess what I'm really Okay, fair enough, then
I guess what I'm really ruling on is does this
world and this sort of way of telling this story
deserve to be enshrined? Like well, also, hey man, that
is what you're voting on in one sense, if the
franchise makes it at all. But I don't mean to
make this decision too big on your shoulders. But I
also think you're kind of judging whether video games, being

(19:24):
an iterative art form, does firstness matter or does flawlessness matter?
Which is more tea? Yeah? Does it Does it matter
that franchise event ex eventually got there by the seventh one?
The seventh one so good? Or does it matter that
franchise why knocked it out of the park with the
idea first time through the true I do some true

(19:47):
causewistreet on this on this podcast. Uh, Okay, I'm gonna
let this one on. I'm gonna I'm gonna go back.
I'm gonna keep it, and I never, I never want
to talk about psycho again. Uh. I understand your this
will prevent you from having to talk talk about psychonauts. Yeah,
I understand. And I think in this case, because it
because it has such a such a strong place in

(20:09):
your art, I think that matters a little bit on
this in our conversation, Like it's sort of like you
kept elden Ring and I know that you don't love it,
but I do love it, And if you hadn't kept it,
I'd be like, what the funk? Man? I want my
video game show to have elden Ring. And you know
what I mean, Like, I think that's what this is
a little bit, Like I think that this is a
core game for you and I do like it, so

(20:30):
I'll keep it, consider it kept forever. I'll never un
keep it now until we have a games on here
and then we can talk about it again. Are you
updating the dominant right now? Uh? And as he does that.
I think we should take our first break, please, because
I can't do three things at once. Yeah, so you
type with your precious angel fingers and we'll be right

(20:53):
back to discuss oh boy, eight more media games and
whether they make it on the driver or not. See
on the other side. We're back just enough time to
update that spreadsheet. That's right, I mean Celestial hard drive.

(21:17):
I like the audience to imagine there's a real hard
drive somewhere with these games. On delete one, we we
each grab half the game and we rip it apart
and it pixels spram Yeah, like a like a finishing
and Destiny. By the way, Adam's going to use his
slot to just say destinies. Remember how good it is?

(21:39):
We kept it. That was good. Uh No, So we
should at some point figure out a way to publish
what is on the hard drive for people so they
don't have to like I figured when we got to
that's a good idea. Okay. Uh well, so here's a
game we did not keep but did cover. It's back
in our backlog for those of you who joined us
after we moved to eh Heart Um. That I think
is just a really important game in the history of

(22:01):
games and still really fun to play. And that is
Assassin's Creed too. Assassin's Creed Too is when they figured
out the Assassin's Creed formula. What is it. They got
all the stealth mechanics correct, they got all the history
ninja stuff correct. They had a character who was good
enough that we cared about his backstory and wanted to

(22:24):
see him succeed. They put it in the right period
of history for us to care about it. It's I mean,
they were so afraid of changing it. They made three
more games with the guy, you know what I mean? Like,
uh that, that's how much they thought they'd hit a
home run here. And I think he's a good character.
Um he's not even my favorite of the Assassin's but
he's a good character. And uh, I don't think Assassin's

(22:45):
Creed has ever well, has rarely had a particularly compelling narrative.
This is one of their better ones. Maybe maybe some
might argue their best one. But more important than that,
this is when it finally felt great to run on
these rooftops and do all the tracking missions and do
all the sneak the stealthy sniping stuff. It felt awesome.

(23:05):
They added all the right mini games into it so
that it felt like a robust experience, but it wasn't
drowning an extra ship to do like Assassin's Creed has
become after their fourth or fifth iteration. Like now it's
just like a giant to do list that's now even
an RPG, which is another conversation we'll have some day. Um,
this was the best distillation of it. They figured it out. Um,

(23:28):
they didn't stray from this formula for like, I don't know,
ten years. It was a long time until they finally
got away from it. And frankly, they're coming back to
it because this is a good game loop, and this
is the game that figured it out. What do you think, Mike?
If I were to block it, it would be for
the reason that you said we're not allowed, which is
keeping a different one. I have a favorite Assassin's Creed

(23:50):
we haven't covered that I think is the clear keeper.
I planned to keep it when it comes up, and
I'll argue for keeping it. But if I weren't considering that,
then my stance, my honest stance as a god, how
far can I get up my own ass curator of
artistic insight? Yeah, that's good as a curator of Artistic Insight, UH.

(24:16):
I would say that it is notable enough as a
franchise that it deserves to be on the drive for now.
If we get to a hundred things on the drive,
I would argue, Assassin's Creed is not the first to go,
but probably doesn't survive the long haul to the end
of this or they don't. I don't need any Assassins

(24:38):
Creed on the final final drive that is buried with me.
But that said, we'll cross that bridge when we come
to it. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Um. I think
it probably is a more notable franchise than I feel
about it, because they've run it into the ground so thoroughly,
much like Call of Duty, that my feelings about it
are like deluded. You know that if there were only

(25:03):
a cup, if there was only like four, it was
just like uh Odyssey and Black Flag and two. I
might think this is one of the best franchises ever.
They really They milked it till it's blood milk um.
But my point is I will allow it. I don't
think it will make it past the hundred, but I
think it belongs here for now too. Is the one

(25:24):
at least in the first leg of the franchise that
I mean, how can I, Like I just said, with Psychonauts,
it established the game loop that then sustained the franchise
for the next decade. So what are you gonna not?
I'm just curious and that you were still working with
house money, So I gotta say, because uh, there's like
we're like forty, there's only like forty. That's fine. Briefly, like,

(25:46):
is the one that you you're thinking of? Three? Is
that the one that you love that's your special special?
I'm only answering because the answer doesn't spoil it. But no,
oh okay, interesting, Like if you guessed, I wouldn't say yes,
because that would I got you. I got you. So
I have some favorite sons in this franchise. This is
not my favorite of them. You're making an art curator

(26:08):
of insights. Yeah, yeah, this is a little bit more
of it. Yeah, this is what you might call political
decision papering. Like, yeah, this franchise was notable, but I
would at least like to cover a few other entries
here that I think I personally better and but you know,
and we'll see how you feel about it. But for now,
so it stays okay, great things are going great, Okay,

(26:29):
all right, during the break, I flipped some of my
negatives to positives, So continuing with a positive, Um, this
will probably be easy as shit. But Hadies, I'm gonna
bring back Hadi's about to bring back Hadies. This would
be reversing my decision to block it. Um. I blocked
it because I wanted to make a point, and I

(26:51):
want to make that point again because it's a point
that deserves to be made. But then I'm done and
I can step off my soapbox and let Hadies beyond
the drive because I think it's deserves to be and
lesson as shocker, Adam has changed his mind since then.
But um, they just announced Hatie's too. And I am
a novelty hog, as listeners of the podcast will know.

(27:13):
So this was very sad to me. A bunch of
my I G and friends wrote me and said, haities too.
I bet you saw that drop high, bet your little
pecker was zooming or whatever? You know that, Yeah, it's
zooming around the room killer style, And uh, I said no,
in fact, and I I feel like this is part

(27:35):
of my emotional problems. But I feel like my I
feel like I'm too contrarian, and I'm sorry, like I
don't want to be. I feel like I should on everything,
I drag everyone's joy down or literally why did I become?
But we literally have this argument on either side of it,
but both of us have like about are we two
contrarian all the time? I don't want it all the time.

(27:57):
I'm just saying I feel it more emotionally than I
usually do when I say I'm not trying to shoot
on your fun time. These are my genuinely held opinions
about video games. But I'm sad that they're doing hadies too.
I wish they did something else different instead, because I
always want something else different. That's just how I am.
And I love Super Giant, the team behind Haities. I

(28:17):
think they're phenomenal, not just Haities, which was their breakthrough hit,
but Bastion was phenomenal, Transistor was fucking phenomenal, phenomenal. Transistor
is probably my favorite. Pire was amazing and no one
talks about so underrated. Pyre could be like a Rocket
League in my mind, but it just didn't catch on
in that way. Um they invent these crazy new game
loops that they've never done before. Over and over, and

(28:39):
I wanted to see more of that, so I blocked
Hadie's thinking that super Giant would one day blah blah
blah blah blah. But now that they've had a big
hit and they're going to be locked into making haities
ship forever, I'm like, let's let Haiti's on, so that
Super Giants on the drive, because I really think they
need to be. I'm really sad that they're just gonna
make Haitie's stuff now going forward, but whatever that they'll
make Haitie stuff, hire more people and make other games too,

(29:02):
like they might just get bigger. We'll see, Like I mean,
like it's a bumber, that it's a bomber. That art
is also uh fight like driven by finances and it all,
and it allays Capitalism sucks the joy out of everything. Ultimately,
I don't think. I don't think Hadis Too is necessarily
a bad thing. It does both, by the way, if

(29:24):
there's capitalism fans out there, I want to say, it
does both. It incentivizes the thing and drives it to
great heights and then it and then it also stultifies
and stagnates it and sucks everything out of it. That's
like the course of capitalism's effect on art generally. But yeah,
what a dissertation you're giving today. There's an arc. It
has an arc to it. It happened in books that happened.

(29:45):
I don't think Hades Too is a bad thing. Um,
I understand where you're coming from about it. Uh. So,
Like I just want to say, like, sometimes the game
sequels like, oh, don't do that. Uh and sometimes the
game sequel sounds read like I was appointed to hear
there was a Last of Us Too. I was like, no, dude,
there doesn't need to be another game here, and then
they they're like, incredible game when you prove it. Yeah,

(30:08):
of course you can always come back and prove why
you can earn your way, Like, oh, this thing deserves
to exist in and of itself because it nailed it.
And I think Hades Too, if anything, deserves to be
hyped for that reason. And maybe I'm just shortsighted, but
I'm like, I don't see how the combat and the
builds could get more dynamic and unique and ship popping

(30:31):
off than Haities won. So I imagine Hades Too will
just be more of the same. But hey, shut my mouth,
like I hope I play Hades too, and I go, oh,
they did it again. I'm so stupid, you know, I
really hope that. But I just want Super To Giant
to be on the Drive. So I posit that Hades
should go on. I mean, just for anybody who hasn't

(30:52):
played Hades or hasn't heard about Hades, I think it's
still the landmark achievement in roguelikes, Like it proves that
that genre is here is day and uh, it's really
well done in terms of storytelling, and it's very fun.
So like I think, or something into it, like like
a lot of hours. I put it just under enter

(31:12):
the gungeon. But Adam, so we will never come to
an accord. I mean, we could cover it, but I
don't know how you're gonna change my heart about that.
Oh I'd love to cover it for I'd love to
someday talk about what so deeply attached me to it,
you know, because that's what's fun about this job, right,
is to actually like way with people might like it. Yeah,

(31:33):
and I could go in knowing it's not gonna make
it and you're gonna say why you didn't like it? Well,
I also, if we're ever going to cover a game.
We covered Pokemon snack like that's part of the I'm
never going to cover a game. I try to go
in and like erase any experience I had before because
sometimes I was in the bad mood for it or whatever.
You know. Uh No, I don't think you'll like it,
but I could. I would still cover it to explain

(31:54):
why I don't enough. Maybe that'll be on the ducket.
All right, So I'm assumed by your demeanor that you okay, right,
I stick stand by my keep. Okay. Now, I'm going
to ask for us to both reconsider a game that
we both deleted as well, but I really think in

(32:15):
hindsight we should keep it. Um and that game is
titan Fall two. I'll tell you why titan Fall two
there isn't going to be a titan Fall three doesn't
sound like I think response fully on Apex Legends now
and titan Fall two is a revelation in game mechanics

(32:36):
for movements in video games. Uh, it's super fun. Yes,
the park course stuff and the switching dynamically in and
out of a Mexicans, all that stuff is great. It's
perfectly done, two separate huge. Uh, it refined the formula
titan Fall one. But the other thing that it did
that I think, frankly people don't talk about enough, is

(32:58):
it told a pretty good story. Like, it has a
pretty good story. It has a very memorable character in it,
the robot. Now here's the story you could haggle me
up to saying, is yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good.
I mean, and again, like in the genre of first
person shooters, there's not that many great stories. There's some,
but there's not that many. I'm not arguing that it

(33:21):
should be kept because of its story, but I'm arguing
its story means, hey, these guys are actually hitting on
every level here, Like they don't have a bunch of
deficient areas and then excellent in one area. They have
pretty good in a lot of areas and great in
the gameplay innovation area. That's my basic argument. How do
you feel about it? I'll let it on. I feel

(33:41):
like Dying Light. Yeah, Dying Light is also really killing
it with the Park Corps didn't the second one to
reveal too much. But a game I'm writing for is
really trying to capitalize on what titan Fall introduced and
is very very focused on traversal in that way. Uh,

(34:01):
I do think in the future, but I could be
wrong because we thought this. I still think this. So
there was a game even before Breath of the Wild
and I'm going somewhere at work with this, UH that
have that stamina based climb anywhere system. I forget what
it was called. It was a little indie game where
there was like a ten point out earthquake and you
just had to get to the other side of the
city to find your family, and you climbed over stuff,

(34:24):
and I had that stamina system and basically the only
game loop was that climb Anywhere stamina system, right, And
I don't know if Breath of the Wild saw that
or anything, but it did feel like sort of a
tech demo for what would ultimately become the Breath of
the Wild Climb Anywhere system. It was such a cool
thing that we thought it would get ripped off way
more and more, and it hasn't. Really. I still expect
it will someday, Like I don't, there's no time limit

(34:46):
on that. I still think other games will probably use
the Breath of the Wild climbing system, and in the
same way, I still am flabbergasted. That's specifically more first
person shooters. I don't even think Valerie does. I know
Overwatch doesn't and don't have the full Parkore. It feels
so cool, like to um with a ghost round it

(35:07):
but with only sword fighting only swords though, like uh,
I can't believe more first large scale first person shooters.
I know there are exceptions. I think the futuristic battlefield
you can all walk a bit or whatever, but way
more there should be first person shooters where everyone's jumping
around like Spider Man. Like literally, they should add web
slinging to first person shoot like. I don't know why

(35:28):
we aren't innovating three D traversal first person shooters. Why
aren't we in rocket packs shooting at each other. Why
aren't we summoning Titans shooting at each other. It's crazy
to me that there will be no Titan Fall three.
I do think that combining Parkre and Max with FPS
will happen and again in the future someone will do
it to a great success. But until then, I do

(35:50):
think it's fine to have a slot dedicated to Titans, Like, yeah,
if that's gonna be the one that stands in for
that mix of of flavors that deserves on I think
we were waiting for more other games to do it,
but they just haven't stepped up to the plate as much. Yes,
I liked me or His Edge, but that was that's

(36:11):
I mean, you do fight well. You you fist fight
and you slide under people and hit him in the
balls and stuff, But truly not the same as having
p VP large scale FPS where people are wall running
and ship No. Yeah, I think titan Fall two probably
didn't invent any of the things that it does really well,
but it's done them head and shoulders better than any

(36:32):
game I can think of. Uh Yeah. And also, I
mean we didn't talk much about this, but the mech
fighting is also super fun. It's really fun. Um and
lots of games I've tried to do that, and few
of them have been like big hits. That one is great.
It's got a great man. Did you ever play this
um dual stick arcade game that was a sit and

(36:53):
h unit what a cabinet called um virtual on Virtua
on I might have it might have been a mini
golf place called Camelot where I used to live. Yeah,
Mac fighting game that was super good. Yeah, I had
it at a family fund center anyway, keeping Titan Fall

(37:15):
two or keeping everything to keep against Well, we'll see
I have a couple more controversial ones. Uh, this is
like a question, I guess. So, looking through the list
and not having the time to go back and listen
to the episode, we both deleted Super Smash Brothers Ultimate,

(37:35):
wondering if if we were just making points, not being contrarian.
I understand that we all, or at least I assume.
I'm I'm interested for you to tell me the truth.
But without we're listening to the episode, I'm guessing that
I just was stumping from Melee because I like the
physics that's specifically. We both were like, well, Melee is
the one we would keep, so we're not going to

(37:56):
keep this, that's what we said. Alright, fine, but will
say to our past selves every it's nice that everyone
has their version where they're like and that does give
you a sense of ownership over the franchise, right if
you're like, well, you know the Bugatti, but whatever, I
don't know cars, but like Bugatti handles just the way

(38:17):
I like. That's my preference. That's the one I like. Right,
It's a way to express yourself to have that opinion. Nevertheless,
Ultimate is obviously the rror version of Super Smash Brothers.
It's got all the boards, it's got all the characters,
it's got all the move sets. It's the one that
they're continuing to support and expand we were being stupid,
we should just bring back Brothers. Ultimately, they might not

(38:39):
make another Smash Brothers for like ten years, right, they
might feed this one forever, So this should be the
one that's keep for me. I also, in hindsight, I'm like,
I also think this might be just better, you know
what I mean? Like, I think we might have because
we we we talked about it pretty close to when
it releas. It's a much more ambitious feet of game design.

(39:00):
We just like the yeah whatever, We just like what
we were used to during our key game. I think
if we went back and played it now that it's
been a few years, I think it'd be like, this
game is real crisp and real good. Anyway. Yeah, yeah,
I have no problem with that. Love it. Love that keep. Okay,
uh my, next to buddy, here we go. We both

(39:23):
have to all right, we'll take a break after this one. Okay, Well, um,
this one is just because I've thought more deeply about
it's partners franchise. Uh, I think we should reconsider our
I believe mutual yet mutual delete here. I would never

(39:44):
do that, our mutual delete of Uncharted four. And I'll
tell you why. Uncharted is a great video game franchise.
It's really good. It's really good at storytelling, it's great
at voice acting. It's kind of a prototype to some
of the video game acting we've become accustomed to at

(40:06):
this point. And um, every version of it has like
it feels a little dated when you go back and
play all these versions. But I really think that four
is the one where they kind of got the formula
exactly the way they were trying to get it, Like
they really distilled it to this is really what the
game's supposed to be. Now, I still maintain I'm pretty
sure I said this. I haven't really listened to the episode.

(40:27):
But it's too long. I it is too long. That
is a problem with it, and it goes on and on.
But I think they picked the right tone for this game.
I think they picked the right thing to go after.
It's like pirate Utopia. I think is like a cool
thing for them to be finding. I think even though
it's a little bit lame. I also think the grafted
on older brother thing pays off in a satisfying way,

(40:51):
the way that none of the other games had quite
the same level of pathos that this one did. Um,
I think that they wrap up the series, or at
least this wing of the series, in really satisfying style.
And um, I you know, I think it's a really
fun game to play. Like. It's not my favorite shooter,
it's not even my favorite climber, but it's really good

(41:12):
at all the things that it does. So I really
think if we're ever gonna keep an uncharted, this might
be the one. What do you think, um, what was
the name of the deal? Oh? Yeah, the it was
the It wasn't a DLC. It was a separate game,
right it was, Yeah, yeah, the standalone but I forget
what it was called Uncharted Legacy of Thieves. Among the

(41:35):
Lost Legacy it is, thank you, that's the one. I'm
gonna block that. No, I'm gonna block that. I would
consider keeping Lost Legacy over Uncharted any Uncharted I do.
I would say, at the end of the day, Uncharted
it's not an interesting franchise and doesn't deserve to be

(41:57):
on the drive period across the board Uncharted, it had
done done Charted, And I'll explain myself multiple reasons. I'm
sure I said this on the Uncharted episodes, but yes,
the writing of four was the best of all four.
Um it it feels like they grew through doing Last
of Us and they brought that those skills to bear

(42:19):
the combat. The encounters also got better in Uncharted four
and more Last of Us, Like, the most fun part
is still stealthing around, swimming up to a guy stealth
killing him. Oh no, I got spotted shooting breaks out
and um that's pretty much a naughty dog staple that
I don't really lay at the feet of Uncharted alone.

(42:40):
So the things that make it that make Uncharted uniquely
Uncharted to me, which I would then call like the
artistic offering is uh the gunplay sequences, which are every
time I played an uncharted growing up. I played Uncharted
one and thought the gun play is not great, but
I'll muscle through. I thought the same thing when I
played two and three and then where I was like,

(43:00):
it's finally good because it's equivalent to Last of Us
as gun play. But man, every unchartedt the gun play
is pretty rough. Uh, they're good at climbing around. But
if I was gonna give a crown to a climbing
around champion, it would be Prince of Persia for my money,
So I'll save that for that. And then as far
as what it is, it is Indiana Jones, it is. Um,

(43:23):
it's a you know, what do you call melo yellow
to Indiana Jones mountain dew nothing about it. He's a
generic white, brown haired guy who's generally friendly, murders a
million people without any sense of guilt or ptsd. Uh,
and you know it just goes about his business being
like an adventure dude. I don't care about that story

(43:44):
anymore of those guys. Indiana Jones did it. We're done
with that. That was like fifty years ago. Um. Also,
if you just retitled it like Indiana Jones the Games, um,
I think it would be even more obvious. How you're like, oh, yeah,
these aren't that good that we just like Indiana Jones. Um.
It never makes sense. And I know some people say,
who cares about that? It bothers me to no degree.

(44:07):
Why are there these giant contraptions that everything around them
is in ruins? But these giant stone contraptions still work
a thousand years later that are based on like shooting
lasers a gization do that? Why would those things exist
and be that way? Um Lost Legacy was the only

(44:30):
one that felt like a ground It contained compelling story
to me. All the other ones just feel like we're
just doing Indiana Jones. We're just throwing some ships. Also,
don't care about the brothers. Don't care about Sully. I mean, dude,
I'm playing through Last of Us too right now, and
I just gotta say I care. I even care now
about Mel. I care about Mel's baby, I care about Dina,

(44:51):
and I never cared about Uncharted boys brother or whatever
his name was. Sully I actively dislike whenever I have
to interact with him. So no, I'm just not uncharted now.
I am deeply baffled by this particular portrayal, But okay,
we'll move on, because what else can I say other

(45:12):
than I disagree with almost all those characterizations. Almost every
one of them I disagree with, but we did the episode.
I like that you play crash Bandicoot, and I like
that too. I don't. I don't like crash Bandicoot, but
I think it's fun that you get to play in it.
I think it's a very well now we've both wounded
the others. I think it's an extraordinarily reductive summary of
that franchise. But yes, let's move on to the commercial

(45:34):
break so I can quench my fury and come back
for the last round. Baby Ship. It's gonna be okay. Oh,
it only made him matter. I tried to whisper sleep

(45:55):
nothing to him during the break. It only enraged him further.
It came off as patronizing, which was not my tension.
But well, here we are, Adams furious. I'm uh, I
don't know what I am. I think you're sort of
gleefully jokering this episode is what you're doing. No, that's
what I usually do. Uh, it's now, I'm just going

(46:17):
with the flow. The flow is it just happens to
be weird. But the what I was gonna say is
I I am I'm feeling especially agreeable. So the fact
that I blocked Uncharted, lets you know how my dark
little of how little of an impact Uncharted made on
the artistic landscape. It just doesn't matter to you. Uh,

(46:40):
you're very much No, No, I know, I know, I
said earlier that this stuff is just their opinions. But
this one, I'm saying podcast by any metrics. If you
had to delete Indiana Jones or uncharted, that's not the issue.
Any answer came to you with out a second of hesitation,

(47:01):
but not accepting your false dichotomy. Nah, it's a it's
a dichotomy. Well, speaking of dichotomy's, wait, do I get
two more or one more? Okay, speaking of dichotomys meaning
two of we just covered dead Space two and I

(47:24):
believe we deleted it and we previously covered dead Space
one and kept it. Um, I flipped that. I want
I think dead space too. This is what's funny is
this is a case where I go the other way
versus uh, you know, reverse of the psychonauts way, meaning
I think the refinement, the degree of refinement into is

(47:44):
greater than the amount of which is totally arbitrarily just
a gut call of course. Um, the amount of artistic
value bound up in the novelty of the ideas in one,
by which I mean being on a haunted like I was,
just I can't not rip on this for the same thing.
It's just aliens, right, or even the devs who made.

(48:04):
It would not say, how dare you I created an original? No,
they would say it's a love later lettered Aliens. They
would be proud of that and good for them. Like
I'm not even saying naughty Dog would shy away from
saying it's Indiana Jones incidentally, but I'm just saying it
is so right, So it's it's just Aliens. So I'm
saying the novelty is more in the fact of, uh,
you know, the details we liked to see see previous episodes,

(48:27):
for example, the hud being integrated into the suit. The
fact that you cut limbs off headshots isn't what kills
them because there's space zombies. Limbs is what kills them.
It's different, see, and we're cutting them instead. Um, that
core stuff that makes Dead Space great, I think is
great and stays great, and it's not so mind blowingly
innovative that I'm giving it the points for innovation. It

(48:49):
really is a craftsmanship award. And in the same way
that Alien is a haunted house and Aliens as an
action movie, Dead Space is a little more of a
haunted house and and Dead Space two is a little
more big, loud, dumb action movie. But I gotta say
I really liked too, and it felt more tied together
as we discuss again it is not a mind blowing
plot line, but I like the idea of the true

(49:10):
villain in the end being your your own psychic damage
from the loss of your wife or your love interest.
I forget if they're married or whatever, but your love interest,
and that she taunts you throughout for not being able
to save her, and when you finally defeat her in
your head that's and that the end shot is him
just sitting there coming to terms emotionally with his whatever
trauma um. But at the same time, there's the standard

(49:31):
plot of you've got to destroy the marker and stop
everyone from becoming space zombies. The parts where you fly
in space are demonstrably way better blah blah blah. So
like the refinements, I felt releaps and bounds ahead, And
I feel like part of the reason we didn't keep
two is probably because it's a bit much to keep
both dead spaces, and I agree with that, so I'm
arguing that we reverse it and delete. I mean, I

(49:58):
don't want to burn to lots, But if you say that,
then I guess, is this the end? Of my run then, uh,
or I guess I'll just say then, I guess I'm
pitching that we Yeah, I think that's what we should do,
and I guess we'll keep all right. Well, then when
we get even before we get to a hundred, I'll
be pitching we delete one, because I do think two
is a bit much. But if you were deciding and

(50:20):
a void, I guess, then then I guess I'm just
pitching keep two. No, no, not which of the two.
I know what you said. I'm responding to it right
right right. Oh. Also, this was my official excuse to
rip on Clisto protocol because we'll probably never cover it.
Clisto protocol sucks. Done, sucks. It's a little strong. I
didn't I didn't like it. Yeah, it sucks. But a

(50:44):
dreary drudge through we're doing right now is what you are.
Uh Really, I thought I've been super. I let all
your picks, that's dude. I like which are three? Or
Assassin's Creed to? Both of those games are boring to me,
wonderful games and you know it, you monster. No. So

(51:08):
uh so, I don't know what to do other than
give you these protocol, which is not as bad as
you're making it sound, but it's it's not as good
as dead Space. I agree with that. The combat innovation
that they're holding up with dead Space is that dodge
by wiggling the stick left and right, and then you

(51:30):
systematically beat their limbs off at the shoulders. You beat
their arms off. That's the mechanic is you beat their
limbs off. It just makes no sense. It's just stupid.
It's not as good. I don't feel as strongly as
you do Super Buggy to game breaking interesting. Anytime anybody

(51:53):
says bucks, I believe them. Um. That's just the thing
with video games now, all right? So am I keeping
dead Space too? Um? Dude, I know I don't want
to keep this game if we're keeping one, and I
think one matters for the reasons, but I get it.
So we're sort of an opposite. So I feel like
you took my pitch as not what it is. Well
I don't. I would not say yes to flipping them

(52:14):
if that helps you. Yeah, at least it's at least
you're taking the pitch as what I I would not
flip them. Um and good. Alright, so we've blocked an
equal number others were both Crampus exactly. That's my point.
I would explain why. Um, it's honestly the argument you

(52:34):
would make for Psycho Nuts, I would make it here
for dead Space. Uh, in the like it's there's a
little bit of a nostalgia factor. I think this like
I played Dead Space when it came out, So there's
that's part of what colors my perception of it. I
just think everything that Dead Space is good at all
the things that are truly great about the game, Um,
all of those things were in the first one, and

(52:56):
I prefer the horror vibe more in one than two.
Who still has it? But too is like a little
bit of a lightened diversion of it. Well, she is
definitely more refined. Do you like Alien better than um?
Is more fun? There's no disputing that. A lot of
Alien is like her working on weird like fucking tech

(53:17):
stuff and you're like, what even is that? Or just
like check out the sets and you're like, this is
very cool. I like the sort of contained thing, and
I think that's I mean, I think that's what a
perfect experience of almost anything is this sort of like
perfectly crafted, contained thing, and dead Space one has it,
and everything that mattered about the world was in dead

(53:39):
Space one. Um, the rest of my comments, I would
stay too. This is the one I care at least
about of the five things I'm pitching, so I don't care.
I'm glad there. You can't hurt me. All right, Okay,
all right, Time to wind this down with my final pitch.
Adams final. He plucks it from his beard and uh,

(54:01):
I do I really do? Okay, man, here it is.
You know this is coming. I really think we need
to reconsider the way we landed on Call of Duty
for modern warfare. Here's why I listened to that episode
a couple of times. Uh. I think everybody was right
about everything they said, except for the main reason that

(54:22):
you said you were deleting this game is one you
don't like the trajectory that video games took after it,
which okay, And two that there is a Call of
Duty you like better that you would keep instead of
this one. And I cite to you that is not
a good reason not to keep this game. This game
defined the first person shooter genre. In the subsequent I

(54:43):
don't know, fifteen years, it's been the apex, like the
defining game. I really think it's a mistake to not
have it on this hard drive. And I don't think
we should keep or deleted based on what which one
you would prefer to keep. I'm happy to have an
episode about that one you prefer and then we can
sort it out after the fact. But I think on

(55:03):
its merits it deserves to be kept. Have I at
least moved you with this art, with this plea, Well,
I see you say I'm a crampas like, then you
just bring this stuff there. It's you're setting me up
to half to do well. You don't have to know.
It's a it's a tool of the government to convince

(55:24):
young people to throw their lives away. It does pointless conflicts.
It's a propaganda tool for the military. I can't be
on the drive. I feel ashamed of mice because so
you're keeping it out for for your I mean yeah,
in in part because of the articles that came out
recently about how they literally have handlers from the military

(55:46):
who informed them on how to design the game to
best recruit new people to the military. And I can't
I can't funk with that. So so just to be clear,
because this is now now we're getting into I think
fairly dangerous territory. Man. It used to be a tool
to teach kids about the horrors of World War Two,
and now it's this. I would argue, it's pretty difficult

(56:08):
to distinguish between the impacts of either one, really, you
know what I mean. I think I think that if
it's been a military recruiting tool, and I think I
agree with you that it has. But the fact that
the actually take that, that that they actually have meetings
with and take money from the military to affect the
way the game is made is uh. That's like, uh,

(56:29):
I can't go on the drive because of doping. Like
it's like, you're not You're not a piece of art.
You said that by business, so that you said that,
because I think that's a dumb reason because something I
like no compromised in that I don't know. I don't
think anything should be kept out because of because it
violates a set of rules that aren't what we're evaluating,

(56:51):
you know what I mean, Like I I can I
can know there's no political or like I understand some
people will say, ah, slam you fucking you let your
politics respect your gaming, but I'm sorry. Politics is life,
is art is everything. So my what I'm saying, is
I have my beliefs, though, like why would I put
That's like saying, and I'm not saying that it's as

(57:11):
extreme as but to make the thing clear because it's
all that comes to mind, because it's a handy example.
It's like saying, you know a Lenny Reef install film
is has some of the greatest editing of all time.
You're like, yeah, but it's still Nazi propaganda. Why would
I put it on a list of greatest films? That?
And I'm and I'm not trying to compare them except
in the way where I'm like, if something does offend

(57:33):
your sense of morality, can you put it on a
best of list? Of course? Do you think I think
military action or killing is good? Like when I when
I pushed, which I don't think you do think that
that I think that like going around town raising that
a society should be chaos and organized crime. Not I

(57:57):
understand as a person who consumes art that I have
to agree with every piece of it, like this is
a this I think this is actually a deeply uncritical
approach to how you include or not include something that
you have political grievances with. And I'll tell you why.
It's not just that. Of course they deal with like
military stuff, and I think it's wrong. I'm not I'm
not in favor of it. I don't think it's good.

(58:18):
But we're evaluating the impact that this game has had
on video games and is it a fun video game?
And on both counts it is extraordinary. As I admit
in the episode, I think of all the modern ones,
it's the best one by far, and the story is
the least objectionable. To me. I actually really liked the game,

(58:39):
as you heard. My issue is with the way the
business is now run, and I don't think I agree
that it's bad. Well, then if it can, if it
can go in the Ledger with me having said that,
which obviously it did because I just said it and
it was recorded the right. That's if you're saying, I
want to put this on here and it represents that

(59:01):
the game is there, then I can't tell you no,
it's not. But I'm saying, if we're creating a hard
drive that I think the best represents humanity, no, I
would call this a well, I think that's a really
it's an embarrassing I'm with you on that. I'm completely
with you on that, and I think that the goal
of best as is war, like the fact I would

(59:24):
want to hide war from the aliens, I don't want
the aliens to know. We got to do it completely different,
hard Drive, if that's what you're trying to do, like
none of the like last gone, BioShock gone. I mean,
like the fact that we have military conflicts is a fact.
I know when I accept that, as you've seen, I've
put military I think spec ops the line would get

(59:45):
Can I understand because it's critical of something like I
understand there's some people who now think I'm some monstrous
shill who doesn't care about morality. Okay, you can think
that if you want, and I know you just have
clear opinions about what makes this list and why. I
just don't think totally guess that the job of this
hard drive is to censor would exist for moral reasons

(01:00:07):
or if we are going to do that, let's have
a fucking moral hard drive conversation, because that's gonna be
a long one, you know, well, because then you'd have
to dig into and I know everything everyone's a hypocrite
or like everything is arbitrary in the sense of the
depth that you dig into. I'm not going to find
out the private life of every developer and see if
anyone and I have to stop playing their game, et cetera. Um,

(01:00:29):
just as like I would still watch The Usual Suspects,
even knowing you know, the director and our treats. But
it's but it's like, I don't know, but this is
literally I don't know. I guess I just differently because
we're putting our names next to a top one. These
are the best games, you know, Like I get it.
I write best feels like it includes let me. But

(01:00:51):
if you're saying it doesn't that, I just think that
we've defined it enough to use it as a criteria,
and I think we're selectively applying it against call of duty.
That's my argument. You can still do it. You can
still do it. I just like I don't want to
be gramps. I'll say this, I am not going to
censor according to my morals what goes on this list,

(01:01:13):
you know, unless it's like unless it's like demonstrably proving
something that I'm like, no, I'm sorry, that's you know,
like that's causing people to murder one another or something,
you know what I mean. If if we're in that space.
I don't know, and maybe you'd argue. And I don't
even believe carl duty causes like spree shootings or mass shootings.
I believe those people have issues that would have found

(01:01:34):
a way to manifest themselves. But I do believe when
I literally read oh, they even have meetings about it
and money changes hands where they decide what to do.
I just think that's more sucks. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah,
thats okay. But we've said but I've run that into
the ground. I got all my work points. People who
hate wokeness know that they can hate me now established centrists,

(01:01:59):
I guess people who like vocalism can like me. Everyone
knows what team they're on, and I'm on in our
relationship because that's how we reduce each other to single
points of information. It's useful, it's handy in this modern
work today world. All right, what does that mean? I'm
it's my last thing. You were right the episode? Always, man,

(01:02:22):
I never think they will because we like each other. Bro,
we like to talk. I know, I know, I just
know you have stuff, mental problems, stuff I need to
bring back. I used to do a podcast about my
mental problems and I'm thinking it might be time for
it to come back, because I have a need to
express how poorly it's going right now. In some fashion,

(01:02:44):
it's leaking into the video games podcast and the video
games people don't want to hear that. It's like, not
that an exactly. Um yeah, but we're back in the
modern era of on skipical cut scenes. Um or at
least you have to pause and select skip cut scene
and then it says are you sure we we really
spent interest and you go, yeah, I'm sorry, man, I

(01:03:06):
do want to skip it. Um you feel kind of bad,
don't you when it's like a really pensive especially I'm like,
I really feel like I need to see Yeah, alright, alright,
So I will say, by way of uh edging the
audience a little bit, I was strongly considering, and I
believe I will still probably in the future, especially as

(01:03:27):
we ramp up towards a hundred, towards a full drive.
In other words, I will probably argue towards deleting one
of the half lives, because it does seem odd to now.
We try to judge stuff in a vacuum, and if
you we did an orange month for October and we
did you know Half Life one, two and Alex And

(01:03:47):
we kept them all because each one fucking knocks your
socks off when you're playing it. But I don't know that.
I'm like, we all need to settle down now. But
rather than burn a slot on that, um, I say
this one for last, because I do think it genuine
and heartfelt and touching. I don't know that it will
convince Adam, but I'm sure he'll grant that my feelings
are valid because he always has. Uh and uh, yeah,

(01:04:10):
So I just kind of want to share a spiel
about Outer Wilds, not even about Outer Wilds, but about
a handful of games that I know will never cover
because even though I could probably milk talking about them
for an hour, like I could probably milk an hour
conversation out, um, I would. Really they're very simple early

(01:04:31):
games from the early games of early days of PC gaming,
and their children's games, and uh, I don't know that
it's like that interesting to you know, children's games tend
to be simple when they are and you get to
the bottom of it quick. So I don't know that
we need to cover them. But uh, there's there's for me.
There's nostalgia is a very palpable quality. I think for

(01:04:54):
most people, especially when you reach middle age, you can
like call out. I'm starting to be able to crystallize.
I I can tell when I like something how much
it's for nostalgia and how much it's objective. And I
feel like I am getting more and more objective about that,
you know what I mean? Like I can call myself on,
oh you just like that for nostalgia. You can see
that it's bad, but you like it because you were ten.

(01:05:14):
Um it's easier to see. And uh So these are
games that I know there's a strong nostalgia factor, but
I know that a lot of our listeners are in
our same generation, so I just can't get over like
these maybe among the most nostalgic things for me. And
by nostalgic, I don't just mean that they are nostalgic,
but they are also even when I played them the

(01:05:35):
first time, they gave me a feeling of loneliness but
good loneliness, winsomeness, a feeling of like strangeness but comfort.
And they're the Sian games. So most people know Scian
because of Missed, which we may cover someday. But um,
I don't think we'll cover their early games that were
essentially fancy HyperCard stacks that are games like Cosmic Osmo

(01:05:59):
and Man a Whole and uh I have They're available
on Steam for like Cents of Peace, Owen Spelunks with
an X at the end, And I mentioned them in
Passing a few times and I wanted to do a
spiel on them so I can stop mentioning them, but
I did just play them all again on Steam. They're nothing.
They're just like clicking around in some texts and some
simple puzzles. But god damn, is it like a morphine

(01:06:22):
drip that makes me just feel fine and like everything's okay.
And I like highly recommend if you like Missed looking
into Science earlier, because I do think it's interesting what
they were trying to do with the very limited things
that were available to them at that time to make
a game, and their decision to aim it at children

(01:06:42):
is like, is deserving of artistic consideration. And uh, this
is all bringing me to you know, they went on
to do Missed and Riven and become more and more
adult and now they're doing uh, games that no one
has heard of in that vein, like Abduction, which is
good and very similar to Missed and Riven, but no
one has heard of um. And this is all to

(01:07:03):
say that Outer wild which is not by Cyan, also
makes me feel that way. And that is incredible to me,
considering that it is a modern game that I have
no memory of interacting with as a child, because I can't.
It makes me feel like I'm staying homesick from school
watching fucking under the Umbrella Tree or Muppet Babies or

(01:07:25):
some ship where I'm like, damn, I feel like I'm
ten again. And the Outer Wilds really made me feel
that way. Uh. I also think for all of its clunkiness,
given that it's a physics game with quote unquote real physics,
which always ends up being clunky. Uh, the Clockwork universe
and you know, see the previous episode. But Adam, you

(01:07:47):
know all the reasons the innovations are there, the gameplay
is not there. In turn, if you want tightness, but
I'm not even arguing that we should keep it. You
should argue arguable, Go ahead, make your argument, Okay, then
I would keep it for those emotional reasons. I guess
what I'm saying is, at the end of the day,
I really try to fit video games into the art

(01:08:10):
box because I really care about art and I really
want to I really do think. I mean, I think
everyone grants video games are art in the basic sense,
like they fulfill the definition, but uh, I really like
serious sophisticated adults. Let's say, for lack of a better word,
mature is a better word. Um artistic explorations done through

(01:08:31):
interactive media, and I think Our Wilds is one of those,
and we rarely get those. Yep. I woke up this
morning at six am, Mike, and yeah, uh I thought
about this game because I knew you're gonna bring it up.
I've gone on walks numerous times in the last four

(01:08:52):
or five months and listen to the song when the
Universe collapses as I've been walking, and it brings tears
to my eyes. Uh. I think this game is really
special in terms of ideas, like puzzle ideas and some narratives.
Some of the narrative ideas, not all of them, but
some of them, um are really good. It's the ultimate

(01:09:16):
like lopsided game where I think some things that does
are just not good, like just not quite like not
even like functional, they're not really good. Um. And there
there's yeah, there's weird, lumpy things about it that aren't
as smooth as you'd like. But I think I'm inclined
to agree with you, Mike that this game is uh,
it is special. I can't think of another game like it. Um.

(01:09:39):
It made me think aboutnically, and only in the sense
that I'm like, it's here because of the ideas, not
because of that, you know what I mean. This is
one of the only games that I feel like, Yeah,
the execution is not the best, but man, the ideas
are really, really, really good. Top shelf. Yeah, top shelf.
And I think it's fair for it to be on

(01:10:00):
the hard drive. I actually regretted deleting it almost like
ten minutes after the episode, So I think we should
keep it. Uh did I say, did I relent on
call of duty? Yes? You did. I'm already okay, yeah, okay, okay,
I'm comfortable with that. Oh yeah, keep it. I'm just
looking at the spreadsheet making sure. Yeah, good, okay. Um. Well,
so let's go through and talk about what we have

(01:10:22):
kept briefly, and then we will move on and start
a brand new year of game reviews. We've got some great,
great stuff this year. Already in the Game of the
Year episode as well. Listen to that if you haven't
caught it. Okay, yeah, and every every time we end
the year and then we start the year with a
hard drive app so you won't have to worry about
this nonsense until next year, presumably. Okay, here's what's on

(01:10:45):
the drive. Yeah, man, we might Okay, we were gun slingers. Here,
we'll do it. Current status of the drive. Here's what's
on there. Super Mariota See Legend, Selda, Breath of the Wild, BioShock, Infinite,
The Last of Us, Portal Too, Super Metroid, Halo Somehow, Uh, Fallout,
New Vegas, Red Dead, Redemption one, Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption two,

(01:11:09):
Super Mario World, Golden Eye Double O seven, Dead Space
one resonable to the remake from Walking Dead Season one,
Shadow the Colossus, Assassin's Creed two. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, Assassin's
Creed two. Uh, sub Nautica, Super Smash Brothers Ultimate, Uh,

(01:11:30):
Marvel Spider Man, Um. Yeah it is a good game.
Mortal Kombat eleven, The Witcher three, Titan Fall two, Destiny
to Last of Us two, BioShock The Original Inside Hades.
We decided to keep Tony Hawk pro Skater one plus two,
which was a very convenient game for us. Psycho nuts

(01:11:52):
like Ultimate Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Disco Elysium, Blood Born, we
were removing Forgotten City. I'll fix that, that's right, Legends
l Docerine of Time, Seafood, Oh, that's a good run. Yep,
Gone Home, Braid, Outer Wild, Snow, Sonic Too, Return of

(01:12:13):
ober Din, Star Do Valley, Half Life, Half Life Too,
Half Life Alex Call Duty for Modern Warfare, and Super
Mario sixty four. I gotta say it's also yet as
I say this, I'm like, I don't know what I
would cut from that team, But it also feels weird
to have Super Mario Odyssey, super Mario sixty four and

(01:12:35):
Super Mario World, which I assume will make or d
I did already make it, but it also doesn't. I'm like, yeah,
but each one would make a very good right, just
all right, that's a problem for the future. Yeah. I
think if I had to pick stuff that maybe later
down the line will definitely reconsider, I would say we
don't need both Red Dad's Maybe Red Dead one is

(01:12:58):
gonna slip, Yeah, I think so it's gonna read. Yeah,
we don't need three half Lives. I think we could
at least pick two. You know, uh, I might be
inclined on the Super Mario conversation. Um, those are the
ones that stand out to me right now. Okay, I
know m K eleven stands out to other fighting fans.

(01:13:19):
I really stumped for it. It got kept because of
my argument in a Hard Drive episode. So, um, you know,
fighting fans, I get soul Caliber four would also be
up there for me. But if you are a true
fighting a ficionado, I'd love to hear people say like, no, man,
you're you're a casual. M K Leven's not where it's at.
The Ultimate Fighting Game is blank, Like yeah, let me know,

(01:13:42):
you know, if if you've got something that deserves to
be the fighting game on the Drive. But I really
liked m K eleven, I really really liked. I read
a couple of articles about m K eleven a year
or so after it came out or maybe you're They
were very much like, this is the best fighting game
of all time, So you're not alone in that I
seemed broke, like the way it was broken down by frame,
and it just seemed to have everything in the way

(01:14:05):
that Ultimate has everything. That's how it seems to me. Too,
but I'm also kind of a casual So guys, just
some things will definitely cover in the coming years. We've
heard you about j RPGs. We're in the middle of
preparing for a Chrona trigger episode, so spoilers that's coming. Um.
We will be covering net. We will also be covering
racing games, a thing that we have talked about but

(01:14:25):
never quite landed on the right one. We will be
covering some and uh. We will be covering at least
one flight sim type game. Uh. And there's other genres,
but those are the three that screamed for coverage that
we don't have yet. So we'll be get interesting. Game
are we covering. We haven't figured it out yet, but
we were talking about her one of the I don't

(01:14:46):
think it's we were talking about the fours and Horizon five.
Hey it was, I g yeah, yeah, so you know,
maybe we'll talk about that. I would also argue for
F zero so is. I think Microsoft Flight Simulator was
several people's game of the man. People fucking love it.

(01:15:06):
It's an achievement of whatever it is. Yeah, So I
don't That's not the one I'm thinking of, but we'll
cover at least at least something in that genre. So
that's stuff to look forward to this year as we
continue this great journey. Mike, you know I love you.
You're my favorite crampus. I love you. I love you too.

(01:15:28):
M