April 27, 2023 • 35 mins
In this episode of 50 Years of Hip Hop Podcast series, we go back in time when rap was not played on radio and New York City radio stations like WBLS and WHBI would play rap on the air during the weekends. This episode will dive into the uprise of rap hitting the airways, causing a shift in radio. Episode guests include Kurtis Blow. DJ Envy. Daddy-O. Monie Love. Ed Lover. Charlamagne Tha God. Russell Simmons. Doc Wynter.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
From iHeart Podcasts, I Am Fab five Freddy and this
this fifty years of Hip Hop podcast series. As rap
music hip hop culture began to make a louder noise,
began to have a more dominant impact, it became clear,
and it was clear to a lot of people that
really understood how the cultural pieces fall that where we
(00:26):
were as a time, particularly Black Americans coming out of
the struggles of the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It was a.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Culture of you know, typified by George Jefferson's show, you know,
moving on up, putting that three piece suit on, and
you know, come getting off the corner and being able
to get into those executive suites in a deluxe apartment
up in the sky. So that's where a lot of
the mindset was, particularly of a lot of people that
were controlling things, or the few black executives that had
(00:57):
some cloud that were running things at radio, even doing
things like you know, Don Cornelius hosting Soul Trained. A
lot of these cats were not checking for this hip
hop wrap energy attitude so wagger all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
They were like, what are you doing. I'm not down
with that energy at all.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And that was a problem, and that was a big
barrier that this rap music thing had to overcome.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You had to be real clever about doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And once again, Christmas Wrapping was one of those records
that was able to get into the door. And once
we got into the door, a lot of people knew,
let's hold that door open and let the rest of
the homies on there. So the resistance was real and
once again cultural even I remember when Curtis Blow was
on Soul Train, John Cornelius wasn't totally cool, kind of dismissive,
(01:48):
like this is a passing fad, I'm sure you know.
Was the attitude that many had, I mean not just black, white,
everybody they were up against and.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
In resistance to the force.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
The attitude, once again, the swagger, everything that hip hop is.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It was a problem.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Russell Simmons, record executive and entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I used to promote records in nineteen seventy nine, right,
I was a record promoter when Christmas Rapping came out.
The only black guy that really enlightened me with the
ball Bob Bill Haywood. He died, but listen like me,
he would go to club hopping with. He would see
me take him from the South Bromp to Harlem to Midtown.
(02:30):
The differences were profound in the club by this bean
Jay love different kind of people. To Midtown, we go
to bed Leaus and the Bittigars and Pegasus and Justine's
and all these woodgey club where.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
He felt like his soup fit right.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And then we'd go downtown to the Punk rock Club,
to the Peppermint Loune, to the Munt Club, into the World,
and then we would go to the gay club. We
would go, which is where the records had to play
or they wouldn't play on the radio. We don't play
in the gay club, Frankie Croxin, So we had to
play in the garage, in the law and we had
to play in better days, we had to play in
(03:05):
the gallery those famous d J so influenced radio because
they were gay club and that's all we had was.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Gay disco on the radio.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So Frankie cross on one night on Christmas Eve heard
and I was there Christmas Rapper in the Paradise garage
next morning on Christmas morning, he played it one time,
never played it again for until a year later. But
that's how it got played. Larry Levan played, so you
know in the gay club was very eclusive. Can't get
(03:35):
in there from straight but we as Holland we figure
out a way. We smoked us to go to k
Club because that was where and he had aspiration being music,
and you know, we would go check out you know,
let Fion, but we really that was really the place
to go if you wanted to play music, because that
was what Julie Weinstein said to me. To make the
(03:55):
final point, black music made easy for white people to
dance too. That's what they called disco, and she was
the boss that she had disco DJs all over the country.
In that chart, the disco chart was more important the
black radio in New York. There was no funk on
that chart. So that chart with WBLS and w k
(04:16):
TU and the radio stations that played what we called
black music, but it was never black music. It was
black music made simple with white people today. And during
the same time that bunk was everywhere else, we were
locked out of the bunking creator All.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Russell's reminded me, man, it's just how many incredible clubs
we had in New York City up until not that
long ago, y'all. It really makes me think, man, I
mean there you can go to a different club every night,
different flavor, different kind of music. You know, mostly on
the downtown scene, but there was so many places to
go and party in New York.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Paradise Garage. I was up in there too.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
It was a gay club, but on Friday it was
very mixed and some of the hot chicks used to
go through the And that sound system Larry Levan had
in the garage was something to behold, designed by the
legendary audio designer rest in Peace Richard Long. But I
just also want to add it was when Rudy Giuliani
(05:15):
was mayor. Yeah, that guy that he put in all
these laws in effect that totally devastated the New York
club scene. Like he enacted these cabaret laws and everything.
That took a lot of the fun out of New
York City and really was a big part in just
a lot of people that had club they just couldn't
do it because it took lots of money to get
(05:36):
these licenses and stuff. And that's really fascinating to just
remember what it used to be. As Russell Lazy Down
Curtis Blows Christmas Rapping, which was released back in nineteen
seventy nine. This was the first Christmas wrap record. Of course,
you know, very few rap records at the time, but
this was the first one all about Christmas, a real
(05:58):
clever move, and it was also the first rap record
on a major record label. This was released on Mercury Records,
and this thing was the first record to get significant
radio play across the board. And of course largely behind
this was Russell Simmons, Curtis Blow's manager at the time.
(06:20):
Curtis Blow legendary rapper and hip hop's first rap superstar.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
I remember it was very, very difficult back in the
days when radio would not play rap music, and that
was a big problem for many of the artists. Christmas
rapping was so instrumental and the success to hip hop
(06:45):
because it was our first holiday classic song. Its plays
every year, and it was by design. I remember my
producers coming to me and saying that look, it's coming up.
We were in studio in August and Rappers of Light
was the number one thing all over the Natian right then,
(07:07):
and so we were thinking, well, how can we capitalize
on this rap on record, and so we came up
with the idea of doing a Christmas rap a holler
day rap song that would play every year during Christmas time.
(07:27):
So that was the greatest concept. And of course you
know the spiritually Christmas is the birthday of Christ, so
you know, we can't lose doing a song about Jesus' birthday.
So it has the longevity because it plays every year.
(07:50):
And of my hat goes out to all of the
radio stations around the nation. Thank you, thank you, thank
you for playing that song. Like Nat King cole Man
Man Man, you made my legacy, you made my career,
and not only me, but my family and all of
my fans all love. I'll say friends. I don't have
(08:12):
fans anymore. I only have friends, and so we thank
you because you made it happen and it was so
important because I'll tell you when the song came out,
it was a monster hit on the radio, and not
only on the radio but in the clubs. And I'll
tell you why it was so hot because it played
(08:33):
not only on doing Christmas. The song came out December nineteenth,
in nineteen seventy nine, but it played all the way
through to the summer of nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
At Lover Rapper. Actor radio personality and former mtvvj.
Speaker 6 (08:52):
Oh God the rail Stays were playing whatever whatever was
popular in disco, whatever was popular at the time, whether
whatever kind of R and B was popular. We used
to listen to Frankie Krocer or one of the greatest
New York air personalities, or wblas And then Disco ninety
two came along and they played a whole lot of
(09:12):
disco that was w k tu. So whatever was popular
except if they played it, whether it was a fat
back band, a confunction or Mini Repertand or earth Ring
in Fire or Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson and the
Jackson Five, all of that stuff got played on the
radio all the time. You got to hear anything remotely
(09:36):
considered hip hop was on those tapes, and you know,
the breakout Barren and the breakout for in the Cold
Crush Brothers and the Fantastic Romantic Fives. You got to
hear that stuff that was going on, and the mid
to late seventies you got to hear that.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
But before that it was all it was all disco.
Got the.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Aday Phanta Monica and for all of Los Angeles we
are the hit breakers.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
But that was a little taste of Kday fifteen eighty
on the AM Doll in the Los Angeles area. Yes,
K Day was the first radio station in the country
twenty four hours to play hip hop You Feel Me,
and it was so important.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
This is back in the eighties, the early eighties.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
On K Day was the move and Greg Mack was
the genius behind it all. Brave guy that stepped out there,
got this station fifteen eighty on the AM dow. All
you West Coast people, la, et cetera, y'all gonna know
what I'm talking about, And that was just so impactful.
They also had these mixed masters right on weekends. These
(10:50):
two DJs would put these incredible mixes together. Two of
those mixed masters was DJ Yeller and Doctor Dre Yes
Doctor Dre. But at this time they was in the
world class record crew NWA and all that good hip
hop energy hadn't happened yet. We just want to make
sure everybody knows this is where it begins on the
(11:12):
twenty four hour.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
To Doc Winter.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
iHeartMedia, President of Hip Hop and R and B Programming
and program director at Real ninety two point three in La.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
So let's say I think hip hop the record The
first records were like in eighty two, so King ten third,
and then later on was Rappers Delight. Those records were
relegated to basically play them in the house. Somebody was
playing them on the radio. I get to Saint Louis
and eighty nine and ninety and I can't remember what
(11:44):
year how ninety seven started playing it. I remember that
towards like maybe ninety two ninety three. It was relegated
to six pm to nine pm, and I was a
Quiet stormhost, so I came on at nine o'clock. So
the guy that had that six to nine shift, his
name was Kevy keV by the way, still with his
(12:06):
good brother. That was the guy that played rap. And
that was the only time you can hear it on
the radio. Never heard it in Morning Drive, never heard it.
It was six pm to nine pm was when the
rap records came on, and he was he was, other
than the Quiet Storm guy, the most popular DJ on
the station because he played the music that the audience
(12:26):
was just so excited to hear and what was really
good for me And not really realizing this until later
on in life. I'd grown up in New York City,
so I had, you know, I grew up on a
New York palette of music and taste and whatnot. And
then I went to Connecticut, you know, northern, and then
I go to the Midwest, and I'm in the Midwest.
(12:49):
And so now because I'm in the Midwest, I'm not
only getting the New York music, I'm also getting the
West Coast music molsto probably more of the West Coast
music now. So you know, as time goes on, I'm
beginning to get ice Cube after Trey and Tupac. I'm
getting this education where it was quite possible that if
I was in New York at the time, I was
(13:09):
probably only going to get the New York sound. If
I was in LA, I was only going to get
the LA soundside I got a nice palat of music.
And so, you know, those records were coming through Man,
and it was like, Man, we were afraid in our
mind if those records came on before six or after nine,
(13:30):
it was going to hurt us from a ratings.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Perspective of from an advertisers perspective.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
And so then we began to experiment playing them a
little more earlier on the weekends. Like you know, it
may come on at two o'clock on a Saturday or
on a Saturday and on a Sunday because that was
you know, that was the Devil's Music.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
DJ MVY radio personality and host of the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
At that time, it was very local and it was
just growing outside of New York. You got to remember
back then, it wasn't too many people playing hip hop.
So Hot ninety seven and you know when WBLS played
the little you know, hours here and hours there. Hot
ninety seven gave dedicated radio station to hip hop and
R and B, which was really amazing. They gave a
(14:13):
bunch of artists and it gave a bunch of people
from our community a chance to pay their bills, a
chance to go on tour, a chance to be heard.
And if it wasn't for that station and taking the chance,
I don't know where hip hop will be right now.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, you know, it was just a part of the
game at that time as rap was growing, coming up,
having more impact, convincing people like, no, this is not
a trend, We're not going nowhere.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
We're gonna be here for a while.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
And a lot of people in charge, program directors at
various radio stations, record execs, you know, those few that
had those positions, particularly on the black side would just
not check them for it.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It was shocking to them. It was just not what
they were.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
You know, if you think of R and B and
casts wearing slick suits and doing really flying with I
still love of this, but this was diametrically opposed and
I mean absolutely different in every sense of the word.
And you folks that you know from the hood and
know what I'm talking about when you can remember, like
you saw that that whole rap attitude, you know, like
(15:16):
when you standing there in a B boy stands you know,
you know what, your arms folded with an ice grill
on your face.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
A lot of it was just posing.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
But it was shocking to the cats that were running
the game, and so they were resistant. So these were
major battles, barriers that had to be broken down, and
they did. Russell Simmons definitely played a key part in
that he understood this struggle as when a few young
black execs that really came out of the scene at
that time, and these were the battles that were fought,
(15:48):
and like I said, fifty years in the game, baby,
these battles were won. Daddy Oh, rapper, producer, Deep Thinker
and founding member of classic Brooklyn rap group Stetso Sonic.
Speaker 9 (16:03):
The first time we ever got radio play was a
guy there was There was a station in New York
called w k TU that used to play mostly like
Dance Medgan. It was a guy named Paco on KTU
that played King Tim the Third, which was a fatback
band record that had a rapping and it was kt
(16:24):
you that played rappers Delight Perks.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I'm talking about in the daytime.
Speaker 9 (16:28):
I'm not talking about Awesome Too or Mister Magic. Do
ain't need them, you know, affricase long enough, but on
the daytime, you know. And I don't know what happened
upon you know, he stayed on the radio, But I
can imagine Paco got yelled at. I'm really killing see
him getting yelled at for play.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Ye?
Speaker 9 (16:48):
What are you playing this red?
Speaker 7 (16:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 9 (16:51):
Like like like, I don't know if they thought it
was like street music or it was gonna bring bad
ju ju. I don't know what they thought, but it
wasn't to their liking. And the other thing I think is,
and this probably is not a bad thing on it,
but we didn't really know how to make rackets in
(17:14):
the beginning so our records was like thirteen minutes four.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know what I'm saying, Like, I'll be brutal.
Speaker 9 (17:21):
When we got side, you know, we got our deal
through a context, right, we want a contest, and we
got our record deal. But when we had a demo
and the name of that demo was stets of signing.
That was the name of the demo, no hook. When
Tommy Silverman heard the record or the demo or whatever,
he said, this is good.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I like what y'all are doing.
Speaker 9 (17:43):
Where's the hook?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And I said, what are you talking?
Speaker 9 (17:47):
Like a chorus like something that repeats, And he said, yeah,
ain't no hook, Like ain't no hook, and none of
these ain't no hooking the message and you know what
I'm saying, like like, well, the message kind of handle hook,
but the rest of the didn't really have no hook.
And he said that thing that you say at the end, daddyo,
if you can't say it all, just say step. That
(18:08):
would be a nice hook. And so we went and
re recorded it and the record became just say step,
which was our first thing.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 9 (18:17):
But the bottom line is that I say this all
the time, and the beginning none of us knew what
we was doing.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
You listened to the.
Speaker 9 (18:23):
First sugar Hill Gang album. They singing on half of
it and rapping on half of so we didn't know
what to do. Yeah, I always give Russell and Running
them the credit.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Larry Smith, God bless the debt.
Speaker 9 (18:38):
But when Run came out with a full rap out,
we said, holy crap, we could do a rap out.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
A lot of younger people, they.
Speaker 9 (18:47):
Might not realize or might not even pring to the
information that back in the days hip hop wasn't as
it was. Everything is on demand now, so you know,
if if Flunk Mass the Flex Debut was a song
on Hot ninety seven and miss it, you could just
go to YouTube, or you could just go to whatever
(19:09):
five minutes later and hear it. But back in those days, man,
I remember sitting by the radio just waiting to hear
certain songs like Dana Dang Nightmas. That song just really
blew my mind because it was such a conceptual thing,
and you know, it was on the almost like the
(19:30):
hip hop version of the thriller, you know as Nightmares,
and of course Slick Rick and Dougie Fresh to show.
I remember uh Goo.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
She mad Goo Goo Goo She.
Speaker 9 (19:45):
Read like rock saying rock saying all of those records.
I was even though I was a little kid, I
knew it was a difference between what they was doing
and what New Audition was doing and what a lot
of other people was doing. I knew it was I
knew it was rap music. I knew it was a difference.
(20:06):
But back in those days New York radio, it wasn't
segregated like how it is now. So you had KITSELM WBLS.
Those are the two main stations, and they would play everything.
They would play Madonna, they would play luster Vandros, they
would play New addition, they would play Michael Jackson, they
(20:27):
would play Patti Label. But they would also play hip hop.
But hip hop would only be played certain times of
the day, believe it or not. You know, now he
turned on the radio and you want to hear a
rap song immediately, damn there. But back in those days,
early eighties, he would only hear it like certain times
(20:49):
a day. So I used to just stay by the
radio and I had my teeny K or Maxell cassette
tapes and I had it there, and I was just
wanted to be so on point, like I discovered that
when you want to record something off the radio instead
of having to run and plus playing record at the
(21:11):
same time. Our most boombox was set up you hit
the pause, but and then you hit playing record. So
when your song came on that you wanted, all you
got to do is press pause and then you start recording.
And later I'm not saying I invented the term, but later,
you know, some people would call those pores tapes.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You know, I'm definitely not taking.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
Credit for none of that, but you know, I just
did it. You think about all the way back to
like eighty two or eighty three, it was just coming
on the radio, even though it was.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Out in the street.
Speaker 9 (21:44):
Before that, it wasn't really getting like super crazy radio
play in like the late seventies and maybe like super
super early eighties. I was I was a little too young,
so I don't don't remember if it did, but from
what I understand, it wasn't really getting that much played
like in the late saturnies and been Dawn of the eightiing,
(22:06):
but like eighty three, when like Runding scenes started breaking
and Houdini and all of those guys started making noise
and curves blow, it would just be hearing all of
these new songs, you know, like damn it, Like every Weeda,
every other week, a new song was coming out, song Pepper,
and you know you just sit by the radio just
(22:26):
so you can just feel an energy.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, And so basically keep in mind in this fiftieth
year of rap music and hip hop culture just dominating
the whole global music space. Back at this time, if
you didn't have a cassette, a homie that knew was
able to tell.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
A friend to telephrame what was really going on, you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Really didn't hear any rap music on the radio. It
was a cassette, you know what I'm saying. Or maybe
you was lucky enough to be on the block with
those DJ's were actually doing that thing, you know what
I mean. You know, as we talked about in previous episodes,
banging into the base of the street light, plugging in
them wires to the right wires you don't get electrocuted,
(23:09):
plugging in their sound system, them amps, them speakers, and
let the music play.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That's how I went down for sure, and.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
Love it because we were so considered mainstream at that
time that if you did a record like you know,
the first time I got protect your Neck and met
the man. It wasn't on LOUD, it was on wool
Tang Records, and it was on a tape, so we
(23:40):
we wasn't not we ain't gonna play that. We weren't
playing that.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
That was too. That was like a year before they
even signed to LOUD.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
So they got at me at at the Beach at
Jones Beach, at the Greek Greek Picnic at Jones Beach
and gave it to me, gave it to me on tape,
you know. So they didn't really have no real major
label backing that, so they wasn't going to get that.
So that's where the stretching by Bethos came in and
Awesome Fools came in, and even the Supreme Team you
(24:08):
know before that they were there as the outlet for
these underground artists that was coming up that didn't have
that financial back in from a major l Curtis.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Blood, I was on a major label. I was guaranteed
radio play. As a matter of fact, I started making
these radio records and got criticized for it.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
But that's okay because I did.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
A sacrificial move, the sacrifice of making the kind of
music that was radio friendly was so very important to
spreading of course, this culture around the country. That was
by design. It was a sacrifice. This is what I'm saying.
And his two parts to that. Number one was I
(24:55):
met a reverend Jesse Jackson in nineteen eighty came up
to me, pulled me to the side and said, listen, Curtis,
this thing hip hop, this thing rap is incredible. You guys,
you and your you and your fellas are the new
(25:15):
icons of the community. And I'm going to give you
a message. I want you to take back to your fellas
and you tell them. I said that this is an
incredible this culture of hip hop. But if you guys
wanted to really big, successful and spread around the world,
(25:39):
you have to keep it clean and then they will
play it. They will make it successful, all right. So
I went back to Grand Master Flash and the sugar
Hill Gang. We were doing our first national interview on radioscope.
(25:59):
So I went at them before the interview and I
told them what Jesse Jackson had said, the red had said,
and they all agreed, all right, all right, right then
and there we started what we call the code of ethics,
not cursing on our songs, not using for Van and
d and not being disrespectful, just keeping it clean so
(26:24):
we could spread it around the country.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Courtis blow talking about his sacrifices were also strategic chess
moves that broke down the barriers of resistance to the music,
to the culture. I'm talking about hip hop and lover.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Everybody had to make a clean verse, like a squeaky
clean version. We played clean version, no spin back. Spin
back came later all that. No, you went into the
studio after you made your dirty version and you made
a completely clean version for the radio. It was another
of that spin back. It wasn't none that point. It
wasn't none of them, dude, none of that woo, none
(27:05):
of that.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
You made a.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
Completely clean version. Well snoop of them did that when
he did the Doggie Style album. The stuff we played
was completely clean. It wasn't no beepouts, it wasn't no
backwards spins, it wasn't nothing. Even sometimes having to absolutely
change the lyrics so that it could be clean. There
was no even a reference towards anything. The word was
(27:31):
you didn't hear it on the radi. You just you
couldn't hear all the your ads.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
You know.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
That's why it was always with Biggie when we played Juicy,
when we first started playing Juicy, it was always if
you don't know now you know, you know you didn't
say they didn't beat out, they didn't spend beginning backwards. No,
the SCC wasn't having that. So you know, everybody had
gone through what they was going to go through. You know,
look at them, how they thing with the Supreme Court
(27:58):
and all of that. I remember, you always have to
play the completely clean versions of their video when they
would re edit the video for your TV rats. You know,
we couldn't play We didn't play Straight out of Compton
on your own TV rat. We're gonna play that video
because of the imagery and all of that other stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
No, we couldn't play that, couldn't play it.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
There was a completely clean version of that song too,
so you know, you had to have what was palatable
to the public, what parents would not complain about, and
what passed FCC regulations without you getting a fine, And
that was a completely clean version. Everybody did it. Acts,
dre act, cuff acts Russell. Everybody was like, give me
(28:41):
the clean version so I could service rate completely claim
without all that what they do now you know that
stuff didn't exist.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
It was clean claim super claim.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yes, Ed, you took me back like an eight track
right there, man, that's right, another strategic move in getting
this culture to wear it clean versions of all the records.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Hey man, listen, it was a necessary thing to do.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
But I'm sure for Ed even particular, like being a
guy that was on the radio, you really knew we
could only play the clean version, no matter how dope
it was. But as soon as you left the radio,
you knew what was being played, right y'all. Frankie Crocker,
Frankie Hollywood Crocker, huge influence on me and my musical taste.
(29:27):
And if you came up in New York seventies into
the eighties from four pm to eight pm, like he
used to say, if Frankie Crocker isn't on your radio,
your radio isn't really on. Frankie took that whole black
radio Jacques aesthetic, cleaned it up, polished, poised, enunciated. But
(29:49):
he had so much flavor, was so cool, and Frankie
specifically wanted to elevate black radio from where it had
been once again in New York, the main black radio
station for years had been sixteen hundred on the AM
dollar was WWRL. Frankie Krocker brought it to FM, you know,
(30:09):
it was originally WLIBFM. Then they switched it up. They
let Frankie have total control. So Frankie was not just
the main DJ that put together all the other DJs
on WBLS. He was also the program director. Frankie had
his ear attuned to the mobile DJs, the disco DJs
(30:30):
that preceded hip hop. And when he was at those
parties and he saw the crowd go crazy to records
he didn't hear about. He went to the DJ, got
the name of a song, went and brought that record
and was playing it on WBLS within days. And he
broke so many records that later became what we.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Know of as disco.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Frankie was a true pioneer with incredible music tastes, but
his taste was broad. If the records would dope, Frankie
play and so he broke out of just a strict
you know, black music, R and B so funk thing,
and he would play something by the Rolling Stones if
it was dope, something by David Bowie if it was dope.
(31:13):
When Frankie played those artists, he got a lot of
black folks that really weren't exposed to that kind of
music open and then into them. So Frankie was a
true music leader taste maker. But once again, like a
lot of older folks or folks from the previous generation
of smooth R and B and soul and funk and
all those things, Frankie wasn't really checking for hip hop.
(31:35):
This was a musical revolution going on, and so he
was rather resistant to what was coming. Eventually, Frankie had
to give in and let it go because it was
Frankie that okay, bringing mister Magic, who was on WHBI
where the Supreme Team, just a lot of superstars, Ce
Devine the Mastermind were coming on in the middle of
(31:58):
the week.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
That's super dupa late hours.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
You had to have your cassette on pause ready to
record if you wanted to get any kind of real
hip hop. But Frankie saw what was going on, he
saw the numbers, he saw of game changing, so he
brought mister Magic over. Because Frankie probably played a handful
of rap records sugar Hill Gang Rappers, Delight or whatever,
but it wasn't his thing, so it was changing of
the guard. But Frankie Crocker huge influence from style wise,
(32:24):
music wise, for so many reasons.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Go on YouTube and just google up Frankie Crocker.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
You can find some pieces of him in action and
get a taste of that Frankie Krocker flake doc Winter.
Speaker 7 (32:36):
So as I got a little older, I mean in
my room and that's I got older, and I started
driving to school or going getting in the car with
my brother or my friends, they would always have BLS on,
and man like I just I was immediately entranced by
Frankie Crocker, Like I had never heard a brother speak
(32:56):
so smoothly, speak so well, be so articulate and cool,
and just like, man, this dude is This dude is
the man you know. And obviously you can don't imagine
what it was like for me years later to actually
meet him.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It was it was just surreal.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
By the time I had left for college, you know,
it was a huge I've become a huge R and
B fan.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I was able to.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
Distinguish the fact that WBLS was the heritage station in
New York City. When Frankie Crocker was on the radio,
you were loyal like you just didn't turn the dial
because it was blasphemy. And then Kiss came on, and
then you know, sometimes Frankie Crocker would you know, he
might just decide he wanted to play an hour of
(33:45):
jazz and you'd be like, oh, that's interesting, and then
you might sneak over.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And listen to Kiss and maybe playing new Edition or something.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
You're like, whoa.
Speaker 7 (33:54):
And it was like kind of like my first lesson
before I became a program director. Even Volert about the
power of you know, playing the hits at love.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
His voice, his delivery, the fact that Frankie wasn't be
programmed at that time. Either Frankie play whatever Frankie wanted
to play, and that was the cool thing about it night.
If you listen to Frankie, you wasn't going to get
the same music you got yesterday. It might be a
standout record that he was really into that he would
(34:25):
play or find out later on he was taking a
little money too. But Frankie played for Frankie wanted to play,
which made Frankie so dope. He was a gold standard
definitely of radio. He was a cool dude of radio.
He missed the boat on hip hop too, but can't
be mad at him because he was already into doing
his own thing, you know. But definitely one of the
(34:47):
dudes that I thought was super dope was Frankie krock Sure.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
Daddy Oh Tyron Williams Fly Todd tells me the story
of how Frankie Kraker and a few of them other
d actually got together and started talking to other DJs
and saying, Yo, if y'all stopped playing hip hop, we'll
give you more salary and all of that kind of stuff.
Like it just it was, I don't know, I think
(35:14):
we were the same threat that we were to everybody else,
you know what I mean, Like there was a lot
of people that saw their ending in our beginning.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
On the next episode of fifty Years of Hip Hop
podcast series, we'll continue with all the Hits and No Rap,
Part two, The imminent Shit that helped change the landscape
of radio top to bottom and to end. This episode
has been executive produced by Dolly S. Bishop, hosted and
produced by your Boy five to five Freddy. Produced by
(35:46):
Aaron A. King Howard. Edit, mixed sound by Dwayne Crawford,
music scoring by Trey Jones, Talent booking by Nicole spence
From iHeart Podcasts, I Am Fab five Freddy and this
this fifty years of Hip Hop podcast series. As rap
music hip hop culture began to make a louder noise,
began to have a more dominant impact, it became clear,
and it was clear to a lot of people that
really understood how the cultural pieces fall that where we
(00:26):
were as a time, particularly Black Americans coming out of
the struggles of the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It was a.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Culture of you know, typified by George Jefferson's show, you know,
moving on up, putting that three piece suit on, and
you know, come getting off the corner and being able
to get into those executive suites in a deluxe apartment
up in the sky. So that's where a lot of
the mindset was, particularly of a lot of people that
were controlling things, or the few black executives that had
(00:57):
some cloud that were running things at radio, even doing
things like you know, Don Cornelius hosting Soul Trained. A
lot of these cats were not checking for this hip
hop wrap energy attitude so wagger all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
They were like, what are you doing. I'm not down
with that energy at all.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And that was a problem, and that was a big
barrier that this rap music thing had to overcome.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You had to be real clever about doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And once again, Christmas Wrapping was one of those records
that was able to get into the door. And once
we got into the door, a lot of people knew,
let's hold that door open and let the rest of
the homies on there. So the resistance was real and
once again cultural even I remember when Curtis Blow was
on Soul Train, John Cornelius wasn't totally cool, kind of dismissive,
(01:48):
like this is a passing fad, I'm sure you know.
Was the attitude that many had, I mean not just black, white,
everybody they were up against and.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
In resistance to the force.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
The attitude, once again, the swagger, everything that hip hop is.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It was a problem.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Russell Simmons, record executive and entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I used to promote records in nineteen seventy nine, right,
I was a record promoter when Christmas Rapping came out.
The only black guy that really enlightened me with the
ball Bob Bill Haywood. He died, but listen like me,
he would go to club hopping with. He would see
me take him from the South Bromp to Harlem to Midtown.
(02:30):
The differences were profound in the club by this bean
Jay love different kind of people. To Midtown, we go
to bed Leaus and the Bittigars and Pegasus and Justine's
and all these woodgey club where.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
He felt like his soup fit right.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And then we'd go downtown to the Punk rock Club,
to the Peppermint Loune, to the Munt Club, into the World,
and then we would go to the gay club. We
would go, which is where the records had to play
or they wouldn't play on the radio. We don't play
in the gay club, Frankie Croxin, So we had to
play in the garage, in the law and we had
to play in better days, we had to play in
(03:05):
the gallery those famous d J so influenced radio because
they were gay club and that's all we had was.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Gay disco on the radio.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So Frankie cross on one night on Christmas Eve heard
and I was there Christmas Rapper in the Paradise garage
next morning on Christmas morning, he played it one time,
never played it again for until a year later. But
that's how it got played. Larry Levan played, so you
know in the gay club was very eclusive. Can't get
(03:35):
in there from straight but we as Holland we figure
out a way. We smoked us to go to k
Club because that was where and he had aspiration being music,
and you know, we would go check out you know,
let Fion, but we really that was really the place
to go if you wanted to play music, because that
was what Julie Weinstein said to me. To make the
(03:55):
final point, black music made easy for white people to
dance too. That's what they called disco, and she was
the boss that she had disco DJs all over the country.
In that chart, the disco chart was more important the
black radio in New York. There was no funk on
that chart. So that chart with WBLS and w k
(04:16):
TU and the radio stations that played what we called
black music, but it was never black music. It was
black music made simple with white people today. And during
the same time that bunk was everywhere else, we were
locked out of the bunking creator All.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Russell's reminded me, man, it's just how many incredible clubs
we had in New York City up until not that
long ago, y'all. It really makes me think, man, I
mean there you can go to a different club every night,
different flavor, different kind of music. You know, mostly on
the downtown scene, but there was so many places to
go and party in New York.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Paradise Garage. I was up in there too.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
It was a gay club, but on Friday it was
very mixed and some of the hot chicks used to
go through the And that sound system Larry Levan had
in the garage was something to behold, designed by the
legendary audio designer rest in Peace Richard Long. But I
just also want to add it was when Rudy Giuliani
(05:15):
was mayor. Yeah, that guy that he put in all
these laws in effect that totally devastated the New York
club scene. Like he enacted these cabaret laws and everything.
That took a lot of the fun out of New
York City and really was a big part in just
a lot of people that had club they just couldn't
do it because it took lots of money to get
(05:36):
these licenses and stuff. And that's really fascinating to just
remember what it used to be. As Russell Lazy Down
Curtis Blows Christmas Rapping, which was released back in nineteen
seventy nine. This was the first Christmas wrap record. Of course,
you know, very few rap records at the time, but
this was the first one all about Christmas, a real
(05:58):
clever move, and it was also the first rap record
on a major record label. This was released on Mercury Records,
and this thing was the first record to get significant
radio play across the board. And of course largely behind
this was Russell Simmons, Curtis Blow's manager at the time.
(06:20):
Curtis Blow legendary rapper and hip hop's first rap superstar.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
I remember it was very, very difficult back in the
days when radio would not play rap music, and that
was a big problem for many of the artists. Christmas
rapping was so instrumental and the success to hip hop
(06:45):
because it was our first holiday classic song. Its plays
every year, and it was by design. I remember my
producers coming to me and saying that look, it's coming up.
We were in studio in August and Rappers of Light
was the number one thing all over the Natian right then,
(07:07):
and so we were thinking, well, how can we capitalize
on this rap on record, and so we came up
with the idea of doing a Christmas rap a holler
day rap song that would play every year during Christmas time.
(07:27):
So that was the greatest concept. And of course you
know the spiritually Christmas is the birthday of Christ, so
you know, we can't lose doing a song about Jesus' birthday.
So it has the longevity because it plays every year.
(07:50):
And of my hat goes out to all of the
radio stations around the nation. Thank you, thank you, thank
you for playing that song. Like Nat King cole Man
Man Man, you made my legacy, you made my career,
and not only me, but my family and all of
my fans all love. I'll say friends. I don't have
(08:12):
fans anymore. I only have friends, and so we thank
you because you made it happen and it was so
important because I'll tell you when the song came out,
it was a monster hit on the radio, and not
only on the radio but in the clubs. And I'll
tell you why it was so hot because it played
(08:33):
not only on doing Christmas. The song came out December nineteenth,
in nineteen seventy nine, but it played all the way
through to the summer of nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
At Lover Rapper. Actor radio personality and former mtvvj.
Speaker 6 (08:52):
Oh God the rail Stays were playing whatever whatever was
popular in disco, whatever was popular at the time, whether
whatever kind of R and B was popular. We used
to listen to Frankie Krocer or one of the greatest
New York air personalities, or wblas And then Disco ninety
two came along and they played a whole lot of
(09:12):
disco that was w k tu. So whatever was popular
except if they played it, whether it was a fat
back band, a confunction or Mini Repertand or earth Ring
in Fire or Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson and the
Jackson Five, all of that stuff got played on the
radio all the time. You got to hear anything remotely
(09:36):
considered hip hop was on those tapes, and you know,
the breakout Barren and the breakout for in the Cold
Crush Brothers and the Fantastic Romantic Fives. You got to
hear that stuff that was going on, and the mid
to late seventies you got to hear that.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
But before that it was all it was all disco.
Got the.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Aday Phanta Monica and for all of Los Angeles we
are the hit breakers.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
But that was a little taste of Kday fifteen eighty
on the AM Doll in the Los Angeles area. Yes,
K Day was the first radio station in the country
twenty four hours to play hip hop You Feel Me,
and it was so important.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
This is back in the eighties, the early eighties.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
On K Day was the move and Greg Mack was
the genius behind it all. Brave guy that stepped out there,
got this station fifteen eighty on the AM dow. All
you West Coast people, la, et cetera, y'all gonna know
what I'm talking about, And that was just so impactful.
They also had these mixed masters right on weekends. These
(10:50):
two DJs would put these incredible mixes together. Two of
those mixed masters was DJ Yeller and Doctor Dre Yes
Doctor Dre. But at this time they was in the
world class record crew NWA and all that good hip
hop energy hadn't happened yet. We just want to make
sure everybody knows this is where it begins on the
(11:12):
twenty four hour.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
To Doc Winter.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
iHeartMedia, President of Hip Hop and R and B Programming
and program director at Real ninety two point three in La.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
So let's say I think hip hop the record The
first records were like in eighty two, so King ten third,
and then later on was Rappers Delight. Those records were
relegated to basically play them in the house. Somebody was
playing them on the radio. I get to Saint Louis
and eighty nine and ninety and I can't remember what
(11:44):
year how ninety seven started playing it. I remember that
towards like maybe ninety two ninety three. It was relegated
to six pm to nine pm, and I was a
Quiet stormhost, so I came on at nine o'clock. So
the guy that had that six to nine shift, his
name was Kevy keV by the way, still with his
(12:06):
good brother. That was the guy that played rap. And
that was the only time you can hear it on
the radio. Never heard it in Morning Drive, never heard it.
It was six pm to nine pm was when the
rap records came on, and he was he was, other
than the Quiet Storm guy, the most popular DJ on
the station because he played the music that the audience
(12:26):
was just so excited to hear and what was really
good for me And not really realizing this until later
on in life. I'd grown up in New York City,
so I had, you know, I grew up on a
New York palette of music and taste and whatnot. And
then I went to Connecticut, you know, northern, and then
I go to the Midwest, and I'm in the Midwest.
(12:49):
And so now because I'm in the Midwest, I'm not
only getting the New York music, I'm also getting the
West Coast music molsto probably more of the West Coast
music now. So you know, as time goes on, I'm
beginning to get ice Cube after Trey and Tupac. I'm
getting this education where it was quite possible that if
I was in New York at the time, I was
(13:09):
probably only going to get the New York sound. If
I was in LA, I was only going to get
the LA soundside I got a nice palat of music.
And so, you know, those records were coming through Man,
and it was like, Man, we were afraid in our
mind if those records came on before six or after nine,
(13:30):
it was going to hurt us from a ratings.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Perspective of from an advertisers perspective.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
And so then we began to experiment playing them a
little more earlier on the weekends. Like you know, it
may come on at two o'clock on a Saturday or
on a Saturday and on a Sunday because that was
you know, that was the Devil's Music.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
DJ MVY radio personality and host of the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
At that time, it was very local and it was
just growing outside of New York. You got to remember
back then, it wasn't too many people playing hip hop.
So Hot ninety seven and you know when WBLS played
the little you know, hours here and hours there. Hot
ninety seven gave dedicated radio station to hip hop and
R and B, which was really amazing. They gave a
(14:13):
bunch of artists and it gave a bunch of people
from our community a chance to pay their bills, a
chance to go on tour, a chance to be heard.
And if it wasn't for that station and taking the chance,
I don't know where hip hop will be right now.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, you know, it was just a part of the
game at that time as rap was growing, coming up,
having more impact, convincing people like, no, this is not
a trend, We're not going nowhere.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
We're gonna be here for a while.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
And a lot of people in charge, program directors at
various radio stations, record execs, you know, those few that
had those positions, particularly on the black side would just
not check them for it.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It was shocking to them. It was just not what
they were.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
You know, if you think of R and B and
casts wearing slick suits and doing really flying with I
still love of this, but this was diametrically opposed and
I mean absolutely different in every sense of the word.
And you folks that you know from the hood and
know what I'm talking about when you can remember, like
you saw that that whole rap attitude, you know, like
(15:16):
when you standing there in a B boy stands you know,
you know what, your arms folded with an ice grill
on your face.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
A lot of it was just posing.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
But it was shocking to the cats that were running
the game, and so they were resistant. So these were
major battles, barriers that had to be broken down, and
they did. Russell Simmons definitely played a key part in
that he understood this struggle as when a few young
black execs that really came out of the scene at
that time, and these were the battles that were fought,
(15:48):
and like I said, fifty years in the game, baby,
these battles were won. Daddy Oh, rapper, producer, Deep Thinker
and founding member of classic Brooklyn rap group Stetso Sonic.
Speaker 9 (16:03):
The first time we ever got radio play was a
guy there was There was a station in New York
called w k TU that used to play mostly like
Dance Medgan. It was a guy named Paco on KTU
that played King Tim the Third, which was a fatback
band record that had a rapping and it was kt
(16:24):
you that played rappers Delight Perks.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I'm talking about in the daytime.
Speaker 9 (16:28):
I'm not talking about Awesome Too or Mister Magic. Do
ain't need them, you know, affricase long enough, but on
the daytime, you know. And I don't know what happened
upon you know, he stayed on the radio, But I
can imagine Paco got yelled at. I'm really killing see
him getting yelled at for play.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Ye?
Speaker 9 (16:48):
What are you playing this red?
Speaker 7 (16:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 9 (16:51):
Like like like, I don't know if they thought it
was like street music or it was gonna bring bad
ju ju. I don't know what they thought, but it
wasn't to their liking. And the other thing I think is,
and this probably is not a bad thing on it,
but we didn't really know how to make rackets in
(17:14):
the beginning so our records was like thirteen minutes four.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know what I'm saying, Like, I'll be brutal.
Speaker 9 (17:21):
When we got side, you know, we got our deal
through a context, right, we want a contest, and we
got our record deal. But when we had a demo
and the name of that demo was stets of signing.
That was the name of the demo, no hook. When
Tommy Silverman heard the record or the demo or whatever,
he said, this is good.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I like what y'all are doing.
Speaker 9 (17:43):
Where's the hook?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And I said, what are you talking?
Speaker 9 (17:47):
Like a chorus like something that repeats, And he said, yeah,
ain't no hook, Like ain't no hook, and none of
these ain't no hooking the message and you know what
I'm saying, like like, well, the message kind of handle hook,
but the rest of the didn't really have no hook.
And he said that thing that you say at the end, daddyo,
if you can't say it all, just say step. That
(18:08):
would be a nice hook. And so we went and
re recorded it and the record became just say step,
which was our first thing.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 9 (18:17):
But the bottom line is that I say this all
the time, and the beginning none of us knew what
we was doing.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
You listened to the.
Speaker 9 (18:23):
First sugar Hill Gang album. They singing on half of
it and rapping on half of so we didn't know
what to do. Yeah, I always give Russell and Running
them the credit.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Larry Smith, God bless the debt.
Speaker 9 (18:38):
But when Run came out with a full rap out,
we said, holy crap, we could do a rap out.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
A lot of younger people, they.
Speaker 9 (18:47):
Might not realize or might not even pring to the
information that back in the days hip hop wasn't as
it was. Everything is on demand now, so you know,
if if Flunk Mass the Flex Debut was a song
on Hot ninety seven and miss it, you could just
go to YouTube, or you could just go to whatever
(19:09):
five minutes later and hear it. But back in those days, man,
I remember sitting by the radio just waiting to hear
certain songs like Dana Dang Nightmas. That song just really
blew my mind because it was such a conceptual thing,
and you know, it was on the almost like the
(19:30):
hip hop version of the thriller, you know as Nightmares,
and of course Slick Rick and Dougie Fresh to show.
I remember uh Goo.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
She mad Goo Goo Goo She.
Speaker 9 (19:45):
Read like rock saying rock saying all of those records.
I was even though I was a little kid, I
knew it was a difference between what they was doing
and what New Audition was doing and what a lot
of other people was doing. I knew it was I
knew it was rap music. I knew it was a difference.
(20:06):
But back in those days New York radio, it wasn't
segregated like how it is now. So you had KITSELM WBLS.
Those are the two main stations, and they would play everything.
They would play Madonna, they would play luster Vandros, they
would play New addition, they would play Michael Jackson, they
(20:27):
would play Patti Label. But they would also play hip hop.
But hip hop would only be played certain times of
the day, believe it or not. You know, now he
turned on the radio and you want to hear a
rap song immediately, damn there. But back in those days,
early eighties, he would only hear it like certain times
(20:49):
a day. So I used to just stay by the
radio and I had my teeny K or Maxell cassette
tapes and I had it there, and I was just
wanted to be so on point, like I discovered that
when you want to record something off the radio instead
of having to run and plus playing record at the
(21:11):
same time. Our most boombox was set up you hit
the pause, but and then you hit playing record. So
when your song came on that you wanted, all you
got to do is press pause and then you start recording.
And later I'm not saying I invented the term, but later,
you know, some people would call those pores tapes.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You know, I'm definitely not taking.
Speaker 9 (21:32):
Credit for none of that, but you know, I just
did it. You think about all the way back to
like eighty two or eighty three, it was just coming
on the radio, even though it was.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Out in the street.
Speaker 9 (21:44):
Before that, it wasn't really getting like super crazy radio
play in like the late seventies and maybe like super
super early eighties. I was I was a little too young,
so I don't don't remember if it did, but from
what I understand, it wasn't really getting that much played
like in the late saturnies and been Dawn of the eightiing,
(22:06):
but like eighty three, when like Runding scenes started breaking
and Houdini and all of those guys started making noise
and curves blow, it would just be hearing all of
these new songs, you know, like damn it, Like every Weeda,
every other week, a new song was coming out, song Pepper,
and you know you just sit by the radio just
(22:26):
so you can just feel an energy.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, And so basically keep in mind in this fiftieth
year of rap music and hip hop culture just dominating
the whole global music space. Back at this time, if
you didn't have a cassette, a homie that knew was
able to tell.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
A friend to telephrame what was really going on, you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Really didn't hear any rap music on the radio. It
was a cassette, you know what I'm saying. Or maybe
you was lucky enough to be on the block with
those DJ's were actually doing that thing, you know what
I mean. You know, as we talked about in previous episodes,
banging into the base of the street light, plugging in
them wires to the right wires you don't get electrocuted,
(23:09):
plugging in their sound system, them amps, them speakers, and
let the music play.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That's how I went down for sure, and.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
Love it because we were so considered mainstream at that
time that if you did a record like you know,
the first time I got protect your Neck and met
the man. It wasn't on LOUD, it was on wool
Tang Records, and it was on a tape, so we
(23:40):
we wasn't not we ain't gonna play that. We weren't
playing that.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
That was too. That was like a year before they
even signed to LOUD.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
So they got at me at at the Beach at
Jones Beach, at the Greek Greek Picnic at Jones Beach
and gave it to me, gave it to me on tape,
you know. So they didn't really have no real major
label backing that, so they wasn't going to get that.
So that's where the stretching by Bethos came in and
Awesome Fools came in, and even the Supreme Team you
(24:08):
know before that they were there as the outlet for
these underground artists that was coming up that didn't have
that financial back in from a major l Curtis.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Blood, I was on a major label. I was guaranteed
radio play. As a matter of fact, I started making
these radio records and got criticized for it.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
But that's okay because I did.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
A sacrificial move, the sacrifice of making the kind of
music that was radio friendly was so very important to
spreading of course, this culture around the country. That was
by design. It was a sacrifice. This is what I'm saying.
And his two parts to that. Number one was I
(24:55):
met a reverend Jesse Jackson in nineteen eighty came up
to me, pulled me to the side and said, listen, Curtis,
this thing hip hop, this thing rap is incredible. You guys,
you and your you and your fellas are the new
(25:15):
icons of the community. And I'm going to give you
a message. I want you to take back to your fellas
and you tell them. I said that this is an
incredible this culture of hip hop. But if you guys
wanted to really big, successful and spread around the world,
(25:39):
you have to keep it clean and then they will
play it. They will make it successful, all right. So
I went back to Grand Master Flash and the sugar
Hill Gang. We were doing our first national interview on radioscope.
(25:59):
So I went at them before the interview and I
told them what Jesse Jackson had said, the red had said,
and they all agreed, all right, all right, right then
and there we started what we call the code of ethics,
not cursing on our songs, not using for Van and
d and not being disrespectful, just keeping it clean so
(26:24):
we could spread it around the country.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Courtis blow talking about his sacrifices were also strategic chess
moves that broke down the barriers of resistance to the music,
to the culture. I'm talking about hip hop and lover.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Everybody had to make a clean verse, like a squeaky
clean version. We played clean version, no spin back. Spin
back came later all that. No, you went into the
studio after you made your dirty version and you made
a completely clean version for the radio. It was another
of that spin back. It wasn't none that point. It
wasn't none of them, dude, none of that woo, none
(27:05):
of that.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
You made a.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
Completely clean version. Well snoop of them did that when
he did the Doggie Style album. The stuff we played
was completely clean. It wasn't no beepouts, it wasn't no
backwards spins, it wasn't nothing. Even sometimes having to absolutely
change the lyrics so that it could be clean. There
was no even a reference towards anything. The word was
(27:31):
you didn't hear it on the radi. You just you
couldn't hear all the your ads.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
You know.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
That's why it was always with Biggie when we played Juicy,
when we first started playing Juicy, it was always if
you don't know now you know, you know you didn't
say they didn't beat out, they didn't spend beginning backwards. No,
the SCC wasn't having that. So you know, everybody had
gone through what they was going to go through. You know,
look at them, how they thing with the Supreme Court
(27:58):
and all of that. I remember, you always have to
play the completely clean versions of their video when they
would re edit the video for your TV rats. You know,
we couldn't play We didn't play Straight out of Compton
on your own TV rat. We're gonna play that video
because of the imagery and all of that other stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
No, we couldn't play that, couldn't play it.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
There was a completely clean version of that song too,
so you know, you had to have what was palatable
to the public, what parents would not complain about, and
what passed FCC regulations without you getting a fine, And
that was a completely clean version. Everybody did it. Acts,
dre act, cuff acts Russell. Everybody was like, give me
(28:41):
the clean version so I could service rate completely claim
without all that what they do now you know that
stuff didn't exist.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
It was clean claim super claim.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yes, Ed, you took me back like an eight track
right there, man, that's right, another strategic move in getting
this culture to wear it clean versions of all the records.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Hey man, listen, it was a necessary thing to do.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
But I'm sure for Ed even particular, like being a
guy that was on the radio, you really knew we
could only play the clean version, no matter how dope
it was. But as soon as you left the radio,
you knew what was being played, right y'all. Frankie Crocker,
Frankie Hollywood Crocker, huge influence on me and my musical taste.
(29:27):
And if you came up in New York seventies into
the eighties from four pm to eight pm, like he
used to say, if Frankie Crocker isn't on your radio,
your radio isn't really on. Frankie took that whole black
radio Jacques aesthetic, cleaned it up, polished, poised, enunciated. But
(29:49):
he had so much flavor, was so cool, and Frankie
specifically wanted to elevate black radio from where it had
been once again in New York, the main black radio
station for years had been sixteen hundred on the AM
dollar was WWRL. Frankie Krocker brought it to FM, you know,
(30:09):
it was originally WLIBFM. Then they switched it up. They
let Frankie have total control. So Frankie was not just
the main DJ that put together all the other DJs
on WBLS. He was also the program director. Frankie had
his ear attuned to the mobile DJs, the disco DJs
(30:30):
that preceded hip hop. And when he was at those
parties and he saw the crowd go crazy to records
he didn't hear about. He went to the DJ, got
the name of a song, went and brought that record
and was playing it on WBLS within days. And he
broke so many records that later became what we.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Know of as disco.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Frankie was a true pioneer with incredible music tastes, but
his taste was broad. If the records would dope, Frankie
play and so he broke out of just a strict
you know, black music, R and B so funk thing,
and he would play something by the Rolling Stones if
it was dope, something by David Bowie if it was dope.
(31:13):
When Frankie played those artists, he got a lot of
black folks that really weren't exposed to that kind of
music open and then into them. So Frankie was a
true music leader taste maker. But once again, like a
lot of older folks or folks from the previous generation
of smooth R and B and soul and funk and
all those things, Frankie wasn't really checking for hip hop.
(31:35):
This was a musical revolution going on, and so he
was rather resistant to what was coming. Eventually, Frankie had
to give in and let it go because it was
Frankie that okay, bringing mister Magic, who was on WHBI
where the Supreme Team, just a lot of superstars, Ce
Devine the Mastermind were coming on in the middle of
(31:58):
the week.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
That's super dupa late hours.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
You had to have your cassette on pause ready to
record if you wanted to get any kind of real
hip hop. But Frankie saw what was going on, he
saw the numbers, he saw of game changing, so he
brought mister Magic over. Because Frankie probably played a handful
of rap records sugar Hill Gang Rappers, Delight or whatever,
but it wasn't his thing, so it was changing of
the guard. But Frankie Crocker huge influence from style wise,
(32:24):
music wise, for so many reasons.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Go on YouTube and just google up Frankie Crocker.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
You can find some pieces of him in action and
get a taste of that Frankie Krocker flake doc Winter.
Speaker 7 (32:36):
So as I got a little older, I mean in
my room and that's I got older, and I started
driving to school or going getting in the car with
my brother or my friends, they would always have BLS on,
and man like I just I was immediately entranced by
Frankie Crocker, Like I had never heard a brother speak
(32:56):
so smoothly, speak so well, be so articulate and cool,
and just like, man, this dude is This dude is
the man you know. And obviously you can don't imagine
what it was like for me years later to actually
meet him.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It was it was just surreal.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
By the time I had left for college, you know,
it was a huge I've become a huge R and
B fan.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I was able to.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
Distinguish the fact that WBLS was the heritage station in
New York City. When Frankie Crocker was on the radio,
you were loyal like you just didn't turn the dial
because it was blasphemy. And then Kiss came on, and
then you know, sometimes Frankie Crocker would you know, he
might just decide he wanted to play an hour of
(33:45):
jazz and you'd be like, oh, that's interesting, and then
you might sneak over.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And listen to Kiss and maybe playing new Edition or something.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
You're like, whoa.
Speaker 7 (33:54):
And it was like kind of like my first lesson
before I became a program director. Even Volert about the
power of you know, playing the hits at love.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
His voice, his delivery, the fact that Frankie wasn't be
programmed at that time. Either Frankie play whatever Frankie wanted
to play, and that was the cool thing about it night.
If you listen to Frankie, you wasn't going to get
the same music you got yesterday. It might be a
standout record that he was really into that he would
(34:25):
play or find out later on he was taking a
little money too. But Frankie played for Frankie wanted to play,
which made Frankie so dope. He was a gold standard
definitely of radio. He was a cool dude of radio.
He missed the boat on hip hop too, but can't
be mad at him because he was already into doing
his own thing, you know. But definitely one of the
(34:47):
dudes that I thought was super dope was Frankie krock Sure.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
Daddy Oh Tyron Williams Fly Todd tells me the story
of how Frankie Kraker and a few of them other
d actually got together and started talking to other DJs
and saying, Yo, if y'all stopped playing hip hop, we'll
give you more salary and all of that kind of stuff.
Like it just it was, I don't know, I think
(35:14):
we were the same threat that we were to everybody else,
you know what I mean, Like there was a lot
of people that saw their ending in our beginning.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
On the next episode of fifty Years of Hip Hop
podcast series, we'll continue with all the Hits and No Rap,
Part two, The imminent Shit that helped change the landscape
of radio top to bottom and to end. This episode
has been executive produced by Dolly S. Bishop, hosted and
produced by your Boy five to five Freddy. Produced by
(35:46):
Aaron A. King Howard. Edit, mixed sound by Dwayne Crawford,
music scoring by Trey Jones, Talent booking by Nicole spence
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.