Phoebe Lapine: The Truth About Carbs – How to Eat for Gut Health Without Fear - A Really Good Cry

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Especially for women in their child bearing years. That's a
lot of stress to put the body under, and a
lot of women will lose their periods or fine changes
to their cycle. That should be a big red flag
that this diet is not necessarily productive.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I wanted to ask why you think carbohydrates have been
so demonized in society these days, Phoebe, thank you so
much for coming on the podcast. You have a book
that's been released called Carbavul, but you've already written four
other books.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Over the years. There was, like Atkins in the nineties
when we went low fat. What happened was the carb
count and everything we ate just went up exponentially. So
kind of the example that I give is whole milk yogurt.
When you take out the fat, lactose is an actual sugar,
so the sugars just go way up. As a result,
we also have less fat less protein to kind of

(00:46):
slow our carbs roll to our bloodstream. My biggest pet
peeve with the wellness world is.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
That I'm Razibluka and on my podcast a really Good Cry,
we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Phoebe,
thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm
so excited to have you here, and I cannot tell

(01:13):
you how many questions I have for you.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh my gosh, I'm so ready. So you have.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
A book that's been released called carbevol But you've already
written four other books, right.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yes, this is my fourth, and they've you know, spanned
a whole broad range of topics.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I would love to know how you got to where
you are now and got interested in the work that
you do.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Absolutely so. I've cooked for as long as I can remember,
and I graduated college, and I had a corporate job,
and this is in the dinosaur age of food blogging.
But I started a blog like dot blog spot at
the very beginning and got a cookbook deal really early on,
which was so amazing. And I hate it when women
say I was lucky, but you know, it was kind

(01:52):
of like the right niche at the right time. And
so I quit my corporate job and kind of took
on this weird assortment of odd food jobs to make
it work.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
And then some of the odd food jobs I need to.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh, I mean just teaching classes in people's homes, which
was really funny in New York. You know, at first
I thought I was going to get murdered every single time,
just like showing up alone at these strangers' houses. But
that was actually one of the more fun things I did.
And I don't know, just food styling, private chefing, catering,
like really anything that involved food. And then I had

(02:27):
this diagnosis. I was diagnosed with hashimotives thyroid idis, which
is an autoimmune disease that affects with thyroid gland and
it was by my normal childhood PCP. And you know,
in retrospect, I know that I was really lucky to
be diagnosed at all. But I was twenty two, so
I was really naive and immature, and my doctor was like,
it's no big deal, It's very common for women your age.

(02:49):
I'll just have to be on this medication for the
rest of your life. And I was like, you know,
record scratch what. And I think, you know, I had
the right idea that, you know, just taking a pill
as a band aid fix was not going to be
my path. But I also wasn't experiencing kind of any
symptoms that I could link to this mysterious diagnosis, and

(03:10):
so I just went on living my life and pretended
the conversation had never happened, and then slowly kind of
like wound down health mountainto my version of rock bottom. Also,
like working a lot of odd food jobs, it was
very physical and exhausting, especially in New York. It's like
the schlep is real. And so I found myself like

(03:31):
exhausted all the time, and I kind of chalked it
up to just you know, working a really hard job.
I used to like run, and I started getting these cramps,
like within half a block. My hair was falling out,
my skin was a mess. And ultimately it was kind
of the vanity aspect that got my attention. I mean,
why not. So I did find my way into the

(03:52):
office of someone with a more holistic mindset and did
my first elimination diet, kind of learned that gluten and
I do not get along. Didn't learn like kind of
the connection with hashimotos at the time, but really, you know,
it was just very scary to be an aspiring food
professional and to have any sort of dietary restriction on
the horizon. I mean, even today, this is a long

(04:14):
time ago, but you know, there was like a tiny
little corner in the supermarket of gluten free food. Now
it's a whole aisle and it's great, but even today
it's kind of hard to be a food professional with
any sort of dietary restrictions. So at the time, I just,
you know, kind of had to pivot both personally and professionally,
and I just went down the rabbit hole as like

(04:34):
a twenty something of trying to figure out how to
balance these kind of extreme holistic laundry list of things
that I was being told to change about my life with,
you know, kind of the Western side of things, which is,
you know, food doesn't matter, it's not medicine. But I
don't know. I think because I was a chef and
I love food so much, my point of view was like, okay,

(04:56):
well food is medicine, but it's not just medicine. And
I find this balance between you know, my life of
hedonism and this new path of health, and that kind
of became the subject of my second book. I ended
up designing this whole like my life is a guinea
pig experiment of different things to change, like across a
whole spectrum of wellness topics, the Wellness Project.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh course, different experiments on yourself.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, it was inspired by Gretchen Rubin's The Happiness Project.
But I was like, have me take this kind of
like semi type a approach, and you know, not my hypothesis.
But my goal wasn't to be like one hundred percent better.
It was really to find like that sweet spot where
health and hedonism overlapped and where I could just kind
of let go of a lot of the shame and

(05:43):
the guilt about the things I wasn't doing and latch
onto the many self care practices that actually did bring
me joy. And have you know a real impact on
my physical health?

Speaker 2 (05:53):
And what were some of the practices that you found
when you were doing all those experiments that really made
a difference for you?

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay, Well, well, the first month I went, I went hard.
I did. I did no added sugar, no caffeine, and
no alcohol, cold turkey, and it was really interesting. I
found sugar to actually be the hardest. And it's you know,
definitely part of the subject matter of this book right now,
in terms of how to find that balance. So it

(06:20):
wasn't something that I knew I was going to be
you know, cold turkey for the rest of my life.
The kind of the idea was always a fine moderation
after but I had this horrible perioral dermatitis issues. Do
you know it?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Well, how then did you cow should go full just
a month? And what were the effects that you found?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, Well, I had perioral dermatitis on and off like
since high school, so for like almost ten years. And
you know, I just like would go through the revolving
door of the dermatologist office. They'd give me an antibiotic
or a steroid or a cream and it would be better,
but then like a few weeks later I would come back.
So I was just on this merry ground for so
so long, and I'm sure like doing catastrophic damage my gut.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
What with the stems you was seeing on your face
with perial dermatize, it's.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Just like a like literally a rash shadow.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, it's like little little bumps on your skin, very tiny.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I think, like worse than acne because you can't cover
it up.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
No, even when you cover it, it still looks rough under
the skin.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, there's like no makeup you combat that. So I
have like my before and after pictures, like it was
really really bad. And this was like kind of the
first thing I did besides whatever my dermatologist told me
to do. And I kid you not, it was gone
by the end of the month, like smooth skin and
never really came back, which was the amazing thing thing.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
I have to tell you. I am on day sixteen
of noahdas sugar. It's the first time I've ever been
able to do it. Wow. But I I would really
give up on day one. I used to find it
so difficult. I actually don't really have.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
The hardest thing. It's so not in your head.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
It is by a one hundred percent of drug Sugar
is one hundred percent of drugs. And I gave it
up because you know what, Normally I'll say I'm giving
up and then day one off of really stress at
the end of the day and I'm just like, fine,
I'll just have a spoon of something. But what I'd
realized was whenever I get into those moments, for me,
eating has always been linked to my emotions, and so
sugar because I was like, well, I don't drink alcohol,

(08:16):
I never have, I don't do caffeine. Okay, fine, let
me just have a bit of sugar like, isn't that bad,
but it actually is just as bad. And so I
would have What I would start noticing was after every meal,
my body would tell me, even if I was so full,
it's time to have a sugary snap. And day one
I made it through day one. After day one, it
got so much easier. I was like, oh wow, okay,

(08:37):
I made it to day one. And I wouldn't tell
myself I'm doing it for a certain amount of time.
I was like, I'm just going to see how it goes.
There's due day day at time. Because every time I
would tell myself I'm giving up for a month, I'd
be like, my body would send me panic. But I
had this rash that same kind of dermatize this on
my forehead. It would not go. It was all these
tiny bumps. I got facials, I got it's like.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
The foliation, but it doesn't always work.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
I did it all three to four days in and
by the way, this had been going on on and
off for a while and it kept coming and going,
and so I was like, I wonder what's causing this.
I kind of wasn't even expecting it to be to
go away from the sugar but I literally four days
in I was like, hold on, I looked at my skin.
My skin is so much better.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
You look gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
You were, but it made such a difference. And I
think what happens with sugar is it really dulls you
from the inside. And I know you were saying you
may change because of aesthetics before, but in Iraada, it
talks about how your skin, your hair, all the extremities
of your body that you can see, all the externals
that you can see, they are the things that are

(09:45):
basically showing up to tell you there is something wrong.
So it'll start telling you from the inside and you
might not listen, but as soon as you start seeing
on the outside, that just shows that it's got to
that level where it's had to show up on the
outside to tell you. I'm screaming at you now, I
tell you something is wrong in my body. I need
you to listen. And so, yes, you may have done
it because of externals, but really it's your externals telling you.

(10:08):
Your internals have to do. I have to change, and.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
So my skin is our biggest organ and it is besides,
you know what happens in the bathroom, like the quickest
exit ramp for anything that's causing inflammation or just not
agreeing with us.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I really noticed that when my gut is a little
bit upset, I will sweat more, and not to be
too much, but it will. It will smell worse, and
I will definitely notice the difference between when I eat
out or eat certain oils. When I'm out eat certain
like foods, and then how my sweat is the next
day or when I'm working out, I'm like, oh God,
I don't normally smell like this, but today I do.

(10:45):
So that. Yeah, I think it's a really good indication. Actually, Okay,
So your new book is called Carbivore. Love the name.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Back to the subject of shit.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Carbivore I am. Let me just tell you I have
and always will be a carboholic. I love carbo. I
grew up where my mum would buy fresh, incredible bread
at the beginning of the week. She would have to
hide the bread from me. No, no, she would actually
have a cupboard that she hid the bread. Eventually, thank goodness,
I figured out what cupboard it was. But she would

(11:14):
hide the bread because she'd buy a loaf and by
midday a quarter of the loaf would have gone because
all I wanted was butter and bread. So I A, yeah,
I loved the name of your book, But more than that,
I wanted to ask you, so I love that you
wrote a book about carbohydrates, because I wanted to ask
why you think carbohydrates have been so or cobs have

(11:35):
been so demonized in society these days, and I would
love to hear your perspective on that.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, well, there have been different like flavors of low
carb diets over the years. There was like Atkins in
the nineties. But I do think that where we're at
today with like the extreme vilification, it is in part
because of where we went wrong in the nineties. You know,
it's not completely out of nowhere. It's not for no reason.
Like in the nineties when we you know, went low fat,

(12:02):
what happened was the carb count and everything we ate
just went up exponentially. So kind of the example that
I give is with just you know, like whole milk yogurt,
when you take out the fat, lactose is an actual sugar,
so the sugars just go way up in that and
you know, as a result, we also have less fat,
less protein to kind of slow our carbs roll to

(12:22):
our bloodstream. So kind of my theme with this book
is I say it's slow carb not low carb, because
it's really just about how the carbs can interact in
a more productive way in our body. But yeah, in
terms of, you know, the way that our industrialized food
system has changed, the way grains have changed, you know,

(12:43):
I think that conversation as it's grown, has just spurred
more and more fear around carbs. And I honestly think
that you know, where we've kind of gone wrong is
that we've separated kind of the carb conversation from the
conversation around sugar. So you'll see kind of people in
the low carb movement or people who are paleo, you know,
they're making cookies, you know, with almond flour. Sure that

(13:05):
like lowers the carb count, but then putting you know,
just as much honey or maple syrup or anything into them.
And so the question is is it actually having an
impact at all on our blood sugar? Which, you know,
if we're gonna hone in on the carb conversation, and
you know what's changed over the years, like of course,
like obesit is soaring, diabetes is soaring, so it's not
like there's no problem and that carbs didn't play any

(13:28):
role in it. But in terms of how we can
change things and how we can eat the foods that
we love without having such a negative impact on our bodies,
I think there is kind of a middle road there
that doesn't require such an intense omission. And I feel
like with any omission, I mean you kind of said
a little bit with the sugar element, it's really hard

(13:48):
to go cold turkey on something long term, especially like
for women. Our bodies are really really sensitive. So finding
you know, a practical way to have moderation or life
I think is actually really healthier long term.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
True, I have to caveat me saying I've given up
sugar with saying my saving grace has been stewed apples,
like stewing fruit, adding on some like yogurt on top,
and like having something like that. Just knowing that I
have an option that is somewhat sweet was really helpful.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I canch whole fruit in from my experience.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, definitely, I think that makes such a difference. You
mentioned that this I find really interesting that you said
low fat ends up being higher carbohydrates, and I think
most people I think labels are really tricky, like these days.
Labels are so tricky because you see one thing and
it says loafat gluten free. It was naturally gluten free
in the first place, but like loafat gluten free zero

(14:42):
percent cholesterol. Nothing has cholesterol in it anyway, but the
labels that you see, so you can see something with
all these no added this, know this, know this, but
you don't realize what it's actually saying, right, You don't
realize what's actually in the product to make it that way.
And so I find even with a lot of gluten
free products at the beginning, my family have some autoimmune

(15:02):
disorders and so a lot of people in my family
have given up gluten. And this was ten or more
years ago, and so yeah, they came.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
My camp, the sad Free Girl Camp.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Where there was really not that many options, and what
there were the options were things which were gluten free
but had ridiculous ingredients you didn't even know or understand.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Highly processed, highly processed. Definitely healthier, yes.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Exactly, but do you find you know you mentioned the
keto diet. Is the keto diet a good diet? And
is it sustainable?

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Like so Okay, My biggest pet peeve with the wellness
zeitgeys the wellness world is that a lot of these
diets are data backed but for a therapeutic application, so
for a short term period. And I think anything can
be helpful in a short term period, but that doesn't
necessarily mean it has to be a lifestyle. And you know,
if you're someone who's done keto and it works for

(15:57):
you long term, great, Also cave like a lot of
these studies are not done in women. Yeah, but I
think you know, again, when we go on any of
these short term sprints, it leaves room for falling off
the wagon. And I think, you know a lot of
people really struggle with disordered eating, and that's not talked
enough about with these extreme diets. So ketosis is like

(16:20):
a really intense thing to put your body through to
find fuel from within to turn fat into readily available energy.
And again, especially for women, especially for women in their
child bearing years, that's a lot of stress to put
the body under and a lot of women you know
will lose their periods or fine changes to their cycle
that you know should be a big red flag that

(16:42):
this diet is not necessarily productive. So there are other
ways again to kind of go about it. And it's
not to say that, you know, a short term period
of keto if you have some sort of gut dysfunction
or you know, or you know, insulin sensitivity, that it
can't be helpful for you. But like that's the whole
point of a therapeutic diet. It is kind of to

(17:02):
you know, do a short term sprint and then avoid
the place where you kind of reach a point of
diminishing returns.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
So would you say copple hydrates are an essential part
of a body to survive and be healthy. And what
are the repercussions of, you know, removing carbohydrates from the
body because I know you mentioned people using the menstrual
cycle or women using the eventstrual cycle. Is there a
link between carbohydrates and women's hormones?

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Absolutely? So, first of all, you know, when we say carbs,
it's kind of slang for starch, you know, bread, potatoes, grains,
what we think of as traditional traditional carbs. But carbohydrates
is a macronutrient that literally includes all plants on earth.
So you know, I can get into a sparring war
with some carnivores out there, but I personally believe that

(17:50):
the majority of the data points to the fact that
we would you know, be exponentially increasing our mortality rate
if we took out all plants from our diet. So,
you know, when we talk about low carb and keto
is again an extreme version of this that includes a
lot of starchy vegetables, but you know, most of the
time we're just talking about reducing starch. However, you know,

(18:14):
I personally am of the belief and my third book
was all about gut health that like diversity is the
spice of life. You know, our gut health is so
important for our overall health, our immune system, our moods,
so many different functions, and we know that how to
you know, kind of foster as diverse an ecosystem as
possible within our body is to eat as diverse, you know,

(18:36):
an array of plants as possible. So I think that's
kind of the central argument against going too low carb
because you know, just like what we said about low fat,
you know, increasing carbs. When we reduce you know, our
plate and take away a major macronutrient or take away
you know, a whole swath of plants, we're taking away
our diversity and we're increasing the ratios of other things

(19:00):
that might be healthy and moderation but aren't once they
start taking up too big a quadrant. So I think
that's you know, one argument. And then second of all
is women's hormones. You know, we need readily available glucose,
our simplest form of energy to make certain hormones, and
especially for all my thyroid girlies out there, to make

(19:20):
our thyroid hormones. So yeah, there have been some studies
about keto and going super low carb for people with
thyroid issues that can show, you know, it can actually
increase some of those really annoying symptoms of hypothyroidism, like
the fatigue, because again, like our body can't catch up,
and you know, there's always kind of you know, a

(19:42):
goldilocks issue for everyone. I think it's the point of
the book and the point of this conversation is that
you know, super low carb and super high carb you know,
are not useful for the average person, Like the average
person needs to fall somewhere in the middle.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
And what would you say is considered super low cab?
What is too low?

Speaker 1 (20:01):
I mean, keto is you know, one of the lowest
complete removal, yeah, or carnivore.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's so funny. I knew this person who there was
this guy that I knew, and he was such uh wait,
what's it called? Uh not carbivore? Thinking he wasn't a carbivore.
He was such a carnival that he would only eat me.
He literally believed that vegetables and fruits were really bad

(20:28):
for you. And I guess there is a big following
in that. I didn't realize that, but he but to
the point where he would get his meals prepped and
sent to him and everything would come out of plastic
packaging and it was all meals that you warm up
in the microwave, but all pure meat based. And I
was like, wait, do you know if she was like

(20:49):
no ver? She was a really bad few. And I'm like,
what about your microbiome? What about your gut?

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Do you pooh?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Like? What's happening? Like? What's happening with your gut? I
need to know the details because I can't understand how
you're functioning with such low fiber, because really, when you
cut out carbohydrates and vegetables, you're so low in fiber,
and then on top of that, you have such an
extreme level of protein and whenever I've tried to increase
my protein or I've heard other people have, it really

(21:15):
does take a while for you'll get to adapt to
that level of protein in the body. Sometimes your body
can't even process that amount. So there you are with
your high protein, zero fiber, and no fruits and vegetables.
So where are you getting your nutrients from? Probably, like
I didn't win the argument because he was a serious carnival,
but I was like, I can't put my head around it.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
No, And I'm so glad you brought up fiber because
fiber is a carbohydrate. So I get it really annoyed
with people who, you know, talk about low carb and
you know, they're like, it's just you know, to have
more plants on your plate. I'm like, okay, yeah, fiber
is super important. It's super important for kind of improving
our carb tolerance. But it is a carbohydrate, so like,

(21:58):
you can't be super low quote unquote carb.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Have you heard of lots of products now saying net carbs? No?
Oh my gosh. So it's so interesting. I've been seeing
this quite a bit. I don't want to shout out,
I don't want to like scrutinize any specific brands. I'll
tell you later, but there are some brands who will
say like four grams net carbs, and what they've now
been doing is counting the cabs based on removing soluble

(22:22):
fiber or something like. They don't count the soluble fiber,
and so they'll have bagels or breads or things like
that that they say four grams net carbs and then
you look at the back and it says total carbs
minus the fiber, and so you have four grams of
net carbs. And it's a weird label that they've now
brought out because I'm like, you still got your thirty

(22:43):
grams of cabs and that baby.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
I mean, I understand what they're going for. You can
say it because I can't not wrong per se. But
you know, it's kind of doing the math for people.
You know, if you're trying to eat if a brass
as food, you know that has the ingredient list on
the back and a label, you kind of want it
to reflect the reality of a whole food. So you know, fruits,

(23:07):
let's say, have five times as much sugar as fiber,
so like you're kind of it's like a one to
five ratio. So anything that kind of exceeds that you're like, oh,
that's way too high sugar in terms of starches. You know,
I'm not quite sure that the ratio kind of ranges
depending on what it is. But so that's like one
way to think about it is that the fiber is
kind of offsetting the carbs to a certain extent. And

(23:30):
I don't know, but it can be misleading. That's the
problem with packaged foods is that fiber that is pulverized
into microscopic bits, it doesn't have the protective effects as
even the fiber that's in fructose enhanced food like you know,
like whole fruit. It just so what fiber does is

(23:52):
essentially it's a chain of glucose, so again carbohydrate, but
that chain can't be broken down again, so that glucose
enters our system through the small intestine. It just carries
on and goes to our large intestine, where it has
an extremely important function of feeding our good gut critters.
It's their favorite food. But along the way it kind

(24:13):
of creates this sludge in our small intestiness like kind
of a gross visual, but you know, all those seeds,
all those skins form an actual protective layer so that
whatever carbs, what simple sugars come into our system can't
just like go through like a fine mesh sieve, like
a waterfall. It's going to be much more of like
a drip drip, a slow carb effect, rather than an

(24:36):
obstructed stream. So that's kind of the reason why carbs
have gotten a bad name. The reason why carbs have,
you know, in the highly processed food era, caused a
lot more damage is simply because the fiber has been
removed or we've kind of, you know, we haven't learned
how to incorporate that fiber in a productive way, like

(24:56):
eating a salad before our meal, or in Italy like
an antipos musty, or in Japan the etemame. You know,
if you look at different cultures, there are examples of
how fiber can be protective for our body that are
just kind of baked into the cuisines.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, I think it. I think it's so right. I
understand the concept behind it. But at the same time,
I think a lot of labels are used to mislead,
and that's the that's the fine line where it's like,
are you actually saying it to help or are you
saying it to mislead so that people buy it and
think that it's something that it's not.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, so like so in the in the case of
processed food, like if we're looking at, you know, a
red lentil pasta versus a regular whole wheat pasta or
just a regular white pasta, you know, the fiber on
the back of the package is going to be much
higher because there's so much naturally occurring dietary fiber in lagomes. However,
it's been pulverized into the point of flour to make

(25:49):
the noodles. You know, you're not going to have that
in the small intestine as a protective measure, Like, it's
not going to slow our carbs roll at all to
our bloodstream. It may feed our gut critters to a
certain extent once it gets to large intestine, but no anything.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
It's another reason why you know, smoothies. If we're you know,
throwing all these whole fruits into a smoothie, it's also
not going to have as much of that protective effect.
Since I'm a cook, I like to use the visual
of like what literally happens if you muddle like raspberries
in a sieve. I have a recipe in the book
for like a raspberry lime curd tart. Yea, And so

(26:25):
make the tart and just like think about actually the
lessons of your blood for your metabolism as you do it.
But no, if you try and push that raspberry through
the sieve again, it's going to get clogged with all
those seeds and whatnot. But if you were to puade
those raspberries in a high speed blender, it's going to
go through the sieve a lot more quickly and again
not create that that helpful sledge way.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
That's so true. So would you say that a lot
of these You know, because I eat lentil pasta, I
have to get high a protein in. But I wonder
even when it comes to protein powders, for example, if
the protein is plated in that way and pulverized to
a certain extent and created into powders, would you say
that that has a different effect to having proteins that

(27:10):
are from beans puls like you know, lentail.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Everything is, you know, everything goes through a degree of
processing unless it's a literal whole food. And almond is
very different than almond flour, than almond milk, like again,
like almond milk, I guess on the side the back
of the package is higher fiber, but like you kind
of know, like that's not really like, uh, you know,
that's not the way fiber is meant to function. So

(27:34):
it's not to say not to eat these things. And that,
you know, protein powder lentil pasta isn't a good source
of fiber or protein if you're looking at your macros.
I'm not sure, you know, I would love to think
a little bit more about the protein powder pressure because
kind of the way in terms of our blood sugar,
the way that you know, protein kind of functions is
and same with fat, is to kind of slow down

(27:56):
the emptying of our stomach. So again it's just like
slowing down the diget a process, which, by the way,
if you have certain issues, that's not necessarily a good thing.
You know, certain acute gut issues you know, kind of
are problems of stagnation. My third book was all about
CIBO and IBS, and so there's kind of like a
different lesson plan for that community. But yeah, I'm curious,
you know, when the work is done for your body

(28:20):
before the food enters the body, you know, naturally, I
think it's it's to some degree in a good way
easier to assimilate. Yeah, exactly, But again, when it comes
to your blood sugar, that can be kind of like
a different goal set.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yes, definitely. What do you think, you know, with a
lot of these protein Pod has just reminded me, have
a lot of alternate sweetness and monk fruit or yeah,
do all of those? Is there enough evidence to show
that they actually don't spike your blood sugar levels? And
are there some negative effects with stevia, monk fruit, all
these additional sweetness that are now put into products to

(28:55):
say they're low sugar.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, so stevia and monk fruit are probably the best
from you know, a blood sugar perspective. I do think,
and I don't know if you've found this in your experiments,
but there is an addictiveness to sweetness, you know. There
It doesn't have the same impact on our brain, but
our taste buds for sure. So I do think, you know,
people have to think about that a little bit with

(29:17):
you know, it can be a baby step for people
in the right direction, of course, to replace like certain
types of sugar with even like quote unquote natural sweeteners
or you know, stevia and monk fruit. But I am
glad that you're kind of, you know, looking at you know,
tuned in and aware of what happens at the end
of the meal, because I had to do that too,
And I like to analyze, like why do I want

(29:37):
something sweet? What am I really craving here? Is it comfort?
Is it like just to signal to myself that the
meal is over? Is it like, you know, a reward
at the end of the.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Day or the above.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, And there's nothing wrong with any of those things.
I think it's just worth processing and being aware of,
like how we use certain foods emotionally.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I just didn't want to be have something that had
that much control all over me. I think that's what
it was like. I feel like I'm able to be
quite regimented in other areas of my life, but food
has always been something which I'm so happy about, that
I love and have so much interest in, but at
the same time has had a lot of control over
me emotionally from a young age. And so when I
do get to a point where I'm like telling myself,

(30:18):
you don't need it, but I still end up having it.
That to me is like I'm not in control anymore.
Like I'm not in control of my body of what
it wants, of what it needs. It's skewed because my
senses have overtaken my body and my mind. And I
think that's what throws me off, where I'm like, my
body is actually telling me what it needs, my mind
is telling me what's right for me, but my senses

(30:40):
overtake that and say, no, I need a chocolate. No
you have to have this because and you just to
start telling, you start trying to convince your body and
your mind of why you deserve it or why you
need it. And so I think that ends up being
a tricky kind of cycle that you get trapped into
and the next thing, you know, every single night you're
like reaching for something sweet. And I think having something
small totally okay. I think I just needed to know

(31:02):
that it wasn't dependent on it totally.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
And having these resets again, like therapeutic short time sprints
are so important because it like breaks the cycle. It
gives us a little bit of a reset. So even
if you kind of you know, creep back to you know, it's.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
A week, I'm like, yeah, I can have a little
tree here and there, But I feel like, now I
know that I won't necessarily go all in, and I
know I can get away from it, which.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Is totally You're totally capable if you ever need a reset,
it's there for you.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, exactly. In your book, you talk about your like
top sources of carbohydrates or like the best type of sources.
What would you say at the top three sources of
carbohydrates that you recommend people should have, because I think
of eight categories, right.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, I have, so the book is organized by type
of carb but I like, you know, I think the
beauty of carbs is that they're affordable for a lot
of people. They're pantry stable. Kind of the idea for
this book what became out of the pandemic because so
many people were like in need of rounding out their
meals every week with these shelves stable cars. And I

(32:00):
think a lot of people like who were home cooking
for the first time, like actually had a better relationship
with them. On the other end, people were making sour
dough bread and whatnot. But I would say, you know,
I'm talking about carbohydrates like vegetables, fiber rich vegetables. Absolutely,
I'm a huge fan of using seeds and nuts and
various and various combinations. There's there are five different recipes

(32:23):
for nut and seeds sprinkles, which are like a great
way to just add instead of takeaway. That's kind of
always my philosophy.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
It is like, how can you get yeah, how can we.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Add things that are you know, gonna create more flavor,
more texture, make our meals more delicious and kind of
I guess according to the math of the food labels
these days offset the carbs, but really it's just about
slowing them down. So I would say those and then
you know, whole grains again in terms of you know,
kind of hedging your bets plant wise. I mean, buckweed

(32:54):
is super nutritious, quene, wa, millet, all these different ancient
grains that have been around for a while and aren't
that different today than they were in their quote unquote
ancient ancient iterations. But I also have you know, I
have potatoes, which, like the skin of potatoes has a
huge amount of fiber in them. They have a lot

(33:14):
of resistant starch. There's also ways that you can you know,
pack your carbs to have more resistant starch and whatnot.
But really the book there's a place for everything. So
there's bread, there's pasta. It's kind of about feeding your
cravings while again kind of like adding more of you know,
the healthy fats and the lean protein and the fiber
and the nut and seed sprinkles that you know, up

(33:36):
the nutrition value and then also slow the carbs down.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
What are your favorite secret but also secret collpacs.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Oh my gosh, So resistant starch is one of them.
So resistant starch is really similar to fiber in the body.
So again it's a type of starch i e. Type
of carb quote unquote complex carb. But it can't be
broken down again, so again it passes through our system
and feeds our good gut critters in our large intestine.
And most you know, raw carbs have you know, a

(34:04):
certain degree of resistance starch, and they lose it once
they get cooked. So for example, if you're doing an
overnight oat preparation like raw oats, that's gonna be higher
and resistance starch than cooking the oats. However, if you
cool your cooked carbs down afterwards, even if you reheat
them again, you're gonna have a higher percentage of resistance starch.

(34:27):
It helps kind of redevelop the resistant starch so lowering
the carb count in your food and then again creating
something that's like yummy, happy food for our gut critters.
And I don't again, I'm not crazy about any of
these things. I like to just live in the world
and not you know, have the mental monkeying around carbs.
But I do think to myself, you know, when I
make pasta and I eat it the next day, I'm like, oh,

(34:49):
this is going to be you know a little bit.
Have gon to be a little steadier from this. I maybe,
you know, don't have to add such a huge portion
of salad or vegetables to my plate.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Offright, So cold left pizza, yeah is better. Yeah, it's perfect.
So I'm gonna always buy my pizza and then leave
it the next day and eat it the next egg.
Great pulled pizza is always.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Better, I know. So yeah, you don't have to be
crazy about it. You don't have to like every time
you make pasts, so like I'm gonna freeze it and
then reheat it immediately in one fell swoop. No, it's
just something to think about. And then also like lagomes
have a huge percentage of resistance starch an dietary fiber.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, and you mentioned in Europe having the you know,
having your veggies and stuff before before your CBS. Right,
that's a great one. Why do you think oats have
become such a hot point lately? I've just been seeing
so many reels and videos about people just hating on oats,
and I'm like, No, oats have been yeah, so great

(35:45):
for so long. Why are we Why do we hate
them now?

Speaker 1 (35:48):
They're a whole grain. I mean, I think there's like
the pesticide side of the pesticide side of the conversation.
Oat milk has really come under fire. And I do
think that that one, you know, holds. I get that,
I get that, but again it's like that's a highly
processed version of the oats. You know, the quick microwave

(36:08):
packets of like instant oats. Again, that's taking the whole oat,
but pulverizing it more, cutting it down to smaller pieces
so it cooks faster. So again, you know, kind of
the steel cut oat, which is you know, not pressed
versus the quick cooking oat. Those are going to have
different effects on the body. So I mean, again, like
the slow carb idea is oftentimes convenience, is you know,

(36:33):
gonna make something a little bit less good for your
blood sugar.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Shouldn't be People don't have to cut all the oats, no,
and then oat milk.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
You know, I actually think it's delicious. It's like one
of the creamier plant based milks, but it is higher
carb and I think people who use it first thing
in the morning on an empty stomach in their coffee
or their tea or cereal, that's what we have to
look at. I still have it in some of my
bake because I'm like, yeah, I'm like it's going to
make a really good cake and you're eating cakes, so

(37:04):
like exactly either way, yeah, get over it. But you know,
we know that when we have simple sugars or carbs
that are you know, really quickly assimilated on an empty stomach,
they can reach our bloodstream within five minutes, and that
is going to have the biggest impact in the morning
because we've fasted overnight, so our stomach couldn't be emptier
than it is first thing in the morning. And when

(37:26):
we have you know, any sort of volatility in the
morning in terms of our blood sugar, it's going to
have kind of a negative halo effect later in the day.
So it's just again It's about thinking about how we
change our habits around certain ingredients, how we eat certain things,
not necessarily the what of it all, and removing that entirely.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
I asked some of my audience on Instagram, the community
on Instagram, about some questions that they wanted to know
about cappohydrates, and one of them that came up a
lot was can I really increase my muscle and reduce
my fat percentage by still eating carbohydrates? And it's so
interesting that people have such a people really believe that

(38:07):
carbohydrates can prevent you from doing that. What's your yeah, perspective.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
On the It's really funny. So I'm not a practitioner
of any sort, and I'm certainly not an extreme sportsman
nor body builder in any way, so in terms of
building muscle, like, I can't really speak to that so much.
But so many athletes, you know Carbolot, they eat a
ton of carbs, And it's kind of one situation where

(38:33):
you know you're moving your muscles a lot, you're using
the machine of your body where you can get away
with eating more carbs because you actually do need more
readily accessible energy. So I have a couple experiments of
the book for you to kind of see how carbs
affect you. But one of them is, you know, again
on an empty stomach in the morning, like eating kind
of a high carb breakfast and then going for you know,

(38:53):
a ten to fifteen minute walker before a workout and
seeing how that same food affects you, you know, with
the exercise app versus just being sedentary. And that's not
to say you need to you know, work off your calories,
work off your carbs. I do not live my life
according to that, and I would never put that out
into the world. But it's just again thinking about you know,
our muscles are are using fuel from our bodies. So

(39:17):
if if we're using them in any sort of capacity,
any you know, energy that's hanging out in our bloodstream
is going to get gobbled up more quickly. So you
know a lot of marathoners are extreme athletes, are you know,
having those like sugar gels, Like that's not a health food,
but they need it actually to fuel really long runs.
So I'm actually curious about, yeah, about athletes who are

(39:39):
super low car because I think it's not necessary. So
if I'm obssessed with tennis, we talked about this a
little bit before, and there are like Italian tennis players
who are like, I've literally never had a meal that
didn't evolve pos up.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Like so good, so good. I mean that feels like
a good way to be an athlete.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, they're like stick thin and like full, like pure muscle.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Why do you think that colbs make people feel so
lethologic and heavy, because I find that a lot most
people feel And I get that if I eat too
many cats at lunch time, I definitely get that crack
downward crash. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
So yeah, that's totally just a blood sugar thing. So
like what goes up must come down. And I feel
like there's a lot of talk about blood sugar spikes
in the wellness world, and it's not a peeve of mine,
for se, but I do think we're getting like a
little bit too focused on that because really the idea
is that we want as little volatility as possible, So
we don't want huge spikes huge declines all the time.

(40:39):
You know, we kind of want to like flatten the
curve a little bit. But naturally, every time we eat,
our blood sugar is going to go up and down.
It's the n ague of the beats. Even if we're eating,
you know, like a handful of almonds, like it's still
going to go up and down. So yeah, I think
it's again just looking at what else we're doing, what
else we're adding to those carbs, what we're doing afterwards
if you do feel yourself have that blood sugar crash afterwards,

(41:02):
because you know, that's not great. We don't want to
have uneven energy. We don't want to have to take
a nap under our desk mid day, and we don't
want to have cravings, you know by three o'clock in
the afternoon, so far away from dinner.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
So maybe that's a good sign for people that if
they are feeling that way, I imagine that's maybe you
are having maybe too many cbs or you're not eating
them in the right way. Yeah, so that's be a
good sign that it doesn't mean that you have to
cut them out either do some of the hacks that
you recommended, or take a walk offt I find that
helps me. As soon as I met my main meal
or like my ofternoon meal, I'll get on the treadmill
just walk taking my next meeting, and I definitely don't

(41:36):
get that extreme low to my meal.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
It doesn't have to be exercise. You can just like
walk up sixty once there's ris it's just doing little
small things.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Would you say there's a Is there a best time
to eat calobohydrates in no day?

Speaker 1 (41:52):
I think it's again there's kind of like a Goldilock system,
but probably later in the day actually, you know, kind
of one of the side effects that some people experience
with keto is keto insomnia. It's a thing, and so yeah,
at dinner time. It's again a little bit of a
balance to find because going super low carb can't affect
our sleep, but then of course you don't want to
have a blood sugar spike, you know, while you're actually

(42:15):
under the covers. So it's figuring out a nice happy
medium there.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, that makes sense. Is that? Have you seen any
research based on whether people should be having coppahuders before
they work out or not on whether that benefits. Have
always been interested in that.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Correlation, but the benefit. But I would think that would
be the best time to have them, honestly a workout
and the worst time we do know is in the morning.
So if there's ever a time to kind of focus
a little bit more on protein or healthy fats or
at least making sure we have those things and fiber
on her plate in addition to the carbs. It would
be first thing in the morning. And it's also, you know,

(42:49):
a time that you know, culturally we're most used to
eating sugar. So yeah, it's really just breaking up with
that idea. And again it's like I want to redirect
the conversation. For most people, it's not about reducing the carbs,
is about reducing the sugar. You know, we can just
start off by having anything that follows a more savory
avenue in the morning and like put our best foot

(43:10):
forward you.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
I was actually at Dinny yesterday and three people around
the table told me that they hit cibo. I would
love for you to explain SEBO and any advice that
you have for people out there based on it, because
it seems to be very common.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
It's very common. And so what happens with CEBO is
it's called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and it's kind of
an issue of location, not type. So you have bacteria
that's colonizing too far up in your intestinal track. So
our small intestine again is where we absorb our nutrients.
So there's really no role for bacteria to be there.

(43:46):
They're competing for our food resources there, and then more importantly,
when they eat our food, they're releasing gas. And in
the small intestine so far up there's no easy exit
ramp anymore, so that gets trapped. You know, kind of
the hallmark symptoms of SEBA are really uncomfortable like inner
tube like distension and bloating, and then you know kind

(44:09):
of other classic IBS symptoms like issues you know with
diarrhea or constipation. But it can be really really hard
to eradicate for people, and again one of these chronic
problems that can cause so much misery, and a lot
of people you know, with CIBO do get like very
fearful of food because it's not in their head the
fact that the symptoms are a direct correlation of eating food.

(44:32):
It's that's absolutely true, but it's just that the bacteria
is in the wrong place. So unfortunately a lot of
people will have to go through, you know, some sort
of treatment plan that actually kills the bacteria or you know,
and adopting some strategies to kind of encourage it to
move to the right place. But you know, kind of

(44:54):
the hypothesis with CIBO and why it occurs for a
lot of people is that there's some sort of of stagnation.
So our small intestines are twenty five feet long, like
more surface area than a football field. It's very easy
for anything to get lost in the labyrinth there, for
bacteria to like pull off the side of the highway

(45:15):
and be like, oh, I'm going to like stay a while,
there's a lot of food here and build a little colony.
But what kind of is our preventative measure in our
body is this nerve wave called the migrating motor complex.
And when I wrote the Wellness Product, I did a
ton of research on gut health and I did not
come across, you know, this very essential function. And so

(45:36):
what happens is it essentially is like a street sweeper
wave that clears debris after a meal. So you know,
we have you know, muscles that move the food through,
but then again through this long, windy, craggy area of
the body. We need something that kind of sweeps the decks.
And that's what the migrating motor complex does. And what
I find so interesting about it and why I'm always

(45:58):
talking about it, is that it doesn't kick in unless
you're in a fasting state of ninety minutes or more so,
a lot of people who are snacking all the time.
And again, like we're in a culture that encourages that.
You know, around every corner advertises it, you know, in
every food commercial that we should be snacking. There are
a lot of people say you might have to have
lots of little meals throughout the day versus you know,

(46:20):
three main ones, And maybe that works for you, But
in terms of how you're migrating motor complex works this,
you know, biological process, you're not going to be getting
that benefit that's street sweeper waves. So I wouldn't say
that that is like a main cause of CEBO. There
are so many corem morbidities. There's so many kind of catalysts.
But in terms of thinking about how we eat versus

(46:42):
what we eat, I think it's an important thing to
keep in the back of the mind. And I think
it's a really interesting place where what we know about
our blood sugar overlaps with what we know about our
digestive health because again that volatility. If we're eating all
the time, even if it's something healthy, we're requiring a
lot of energy from our organs. We're requiring a lot
of processes to happen over and over and over again.

(47:03):
So personally, I'm not so into inter minute fasting, but
I do try and space my meals out, and I
do try and you know, take a look at what's
going on with my meals and my blood sugar if
I can't make it, you know, four hours until dinner time,
because that's kind of a sign again that you have
to work a little bit on your blood sugar in
order to get there.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
So that makes so much sense, because that's why in
our Veda talks about having a minimum of three hour
gap between your meals, minimum of three hours, but it's
never been explained to me like that. But it also
makes sense because it says that when you end up eating,
when you end up eating again off your body is
still processing food and still eliminating food from your body.

(47:46):
It increases the likelihood of toxins building up, which is
similar to what you're saying. The toxins build up in
your gut, in your body, and so then that those
toxins end up causing gas floating and all those other bits,
because it's basically the food is fermenting in your stomach.
You're not giving it have time to fully process through.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
And then you're giving the bacteria even more recent to
stick around.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, I didn't realize that that mechanism doesn't kick in,
Yeah till nineteen minutes off CBE.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
And I will say, there are all these other things
that you know can cause dysfunction, with the migraine motor
complex hashimotives being one of them. You know, a lot
of autoimmune issues being part of that picture. A lot
of people with Celiac disease also, you know, kind of
have issues with their motility. But yeah, that's kind of
like a big piece of the pie. And people who
get CIBO. And I will also say, because you know

(48:34):
it's kind of cold season, flu season, any sort of
food poisoning or like stomach bug, you know, you may
not notice it in the moment. Well you'll notice it
in the moment. You'll be miserable in the moment in
terms of a stomach bug, but you know, a week
later you may feel back to normal. But it's what
happens three weeks or a month after that, once our

(48:55):
nerve damage has had the time to kind of kick in,
and the stagnation builds over time, and then it becomes
really hard for people to connect any sort of digestive
issues with what happened like a month before.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
That's what happened to my friend who was saying that,
I say, two people said they go food poisoning and
then directly off to that CIBO. So what's the difference
between CIBO and IBS then.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
So a lot of specialists say that there's a pretty
big overlap. You know, IBS is kind of this like
blanket band aid diagnosis. It's really just a collection of symptoms.
It's not really an explanation for why they're happening. And
so a lot of people do think that CEBO, you know,
covers a large portion of the IBS population, but there

(49:39):
are other things too, these you know, yeast or fungal overgrowth,
cee FOE and you know, many other things that it
can be. Cebo's becoming one of the easier ones to
test for. So I think that's why it's feeling more common,
especially as awareness grows within the medical community and people
think to test for it. But it's not always the
only thing. And then it there is often an overlap,

(50:01):
you know, with a fungal or YaST growth too, because
it's really a mechanical issue. Yes, so anything can overgrow
if you have, you know, the mechanical issue.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
What can people do to avoid getting sebo or the
specific foods not to eat?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
No, So I think it's less again about the foods
and more about just like keeping your motility in the
back of your mind, changing how you eat. I say,
like chewing your food. It's like such a common sense thing,
but like we really don't do it, and you know,
just giving our digestive system the leg up that it
was intended to have versus like, you know, swallowing our
food whole.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
So many of us do. I literally have to consciously
sit and tell myself, I suddenly notice how chewing and
I'm takeing five bites and I'm swallowing it. And my
granddad always used to say, we have to take like
thirty bites before you swallow and then watch him and
he would be really particular about it. Make all of
us do it.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
And now our mother was the same way. She was
like the last person by half an hour at the table.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
We're all like, yes, but imagine how good digestion was.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Yeah, so I think that's something to pay attention to.
And then honestly, like our sleep and our stress levels.
They really do affect our motility, they affect our digest
and they affect our blood sugar. And then, you know,
I'll just like caveat some things that were said earlier
because now that we're talking about cbel you'll understand why.
But some people with ce bow, you know, blood sugar
may come second, Like you may want to have those

(51:24):
smoothies or those you know, purade soups, broads, things that
are kind of easier again that like don't require so
much work for your digestive system because it is, you know,
under fire, it's not functioning optimally to begin with.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
You mentioned intimate enfosting idea, and in your book you
say that especially for women, that intimate and fostering isn't recommended.
So would you recommend intimate enfosting to people.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Or I think again, there's like such a broad range
of how people apply that. You know, like twelve hours
for me, that's easy. I don't even have to think
about that. You usually go to twelve hours, and that
for some people is considered into minute fasting. I don't
think of it as that. I think of that as
like a good spacing. But you know, going like sixteen
and basically anything that can be read by the body

(52:13):
is starving. I don't think is helpful for women. Again, yes,
it increases our stress hormones, and if we're already stressed out,
which like let's be honest, like we all are, then
that's only going to kind of light some of those
symptoms on fire. And then again for women in their
child bearing years, you know, I think any sign of starvation,
you know, that's a sign in the body that it's
not a good time to incubate another life. So it's

(52:36):
just something to think about if you are trying to
conceive or you know, have that on your mind at all.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah, I think we always see stress in the physical
body in terms of in the mind. We always think
of stress as being I'm anxious or I feel stressed.
But I think sometimes we miss the symptoms of stress
that our physical body tells us well, the things that
we're doing that is putting stress on all bodies. And
I think that mind shift is really important because even

(53:03):
certain workouts or exercises that women do, like high intensity
interval training, actually for someone with hormonal issues, thyroid issues,
actually doing these high intensity training workouts can throw off
your hormones so much can throw off so much in
your body and create more stress and more harm than good.
And so yeah, I think that's a that's really tricky

(53:25):
because you're like, oh, I really want to lose weight
or I really want to get fit, so I'm going
to do all this intense work and then you don't
realize it's raising your quarters ale levels. So what happens
when your quarterle levels rise, your body's holding onto the
fat more than they usually work exactly, and then you'll
keep doing all these intense workouts and you're thinking, why
am I not losing weight when when I'm trying so hard,
I'm eating the right foods because your body's holding onto it.

(53:47):
And so doing lower impact workouts walking sometimes you'll notice
that you'll reduce all these high intense workouts start just
simply walking or doing weight training that isn't too intense,
and your body's like slowly, genterly letting go.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
I think you know, most people, at least those who
are kind of wellness oriented and paying attention, you know,
to a lot of these conversations. It is not high
intensity anything that we need, like we need to be gentler,
like everything would probably be better if we're just a
little bit into living.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, I feel like I need more. I feel like
it's a lot of.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
People we saybo too. It's like everyone wants to muscle
through it, and unfortunately, like you kind of just have
to extend the runway and be willing to just be
gentle for a long stretch of time, and the.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Healing process longer generally is always better. Like even in Ivade,
it talks about how we're so used to all these
quick fixes, and that's just in every single part of
our life. And the problem is everything becomes faster, and
then we become faster, and then our expectations like I mean, look,
I love Amazon, but like even the fact that we're
so used to like oh I want this and I

(54:54):
can have it in twenty four hours. But then our
mind becomes like that with our body too, and it's like,
but how long have you been damaging your body for?
And you're aspecting the result of health and wellness within
twenty four hours forty eight hours a week, and so
you have to think about the amount of time that
you have spent harming your body potentially, and then think

(55:15):
about at least of that amount of time to help
heal it. Your body will take time to get used
to your new habits, and so giving yourself time is
so important. Should you modify your carbohydrate intake doing pregnancy
and breastfeeding or can you keep it the same?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
You know, I think there I've never breastped, but I
think a lot of people actually do require more carbs
because again, you're, you know, using a lot of energy
in the body to produce breast milk to feed another thing.
So I think it's yeah, one of those areas where
complex carbs are really important. And again complex cars just
need starches, so whole grains and adding things like that

(55:51):
whenever possible, and just not being too you know, too
worried about you know, the carb counts and things, you know,
simple sugar. But again, it's like when you're kind of
running on fumes, like you do need a little bit
more help in terms of readily available energy a lot
of the time, like digestion is not where it needs
to be postpartums. So yeah, just being again a little

(56:15):
gentle with yourself and paying attention to what actually makes
you feel fueled. You don't really want to like restrict
in that time period.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
You know that reminded me of the other thing that
I had to change when it came to cutting out
sugar was also all the lifestyle habits that were surrounding that.
Because if I was running from thing to think to thing,
and I was in high anxiety, you need.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
A quick fix.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I just I'm like, I just need something, And so
slowing down and being an even if it's just the
small amount of stone and cutting one thing out of
my day made such a difference the pacing of my
life as I changed that. It really helped with not
craving as much and also having more time to like
invest into what foods am I eating. Of course I'm

(56:59):
going to be craving sugar because my meals weren't substantial.
I didn't have the right balance of nutrients that I needed.
I didn't have the right balance of all the food
groups that I needed. So half an hour after that,
I'm hungry again because and then I want the instant
fuel because I don't have time to think about how
to make other things. So that was something that really
helped me too.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Yeah, I would say nutrient density something focused on. Yeah,
but that doesn't mean low carb. It's adding more more
good instead of like taking away. So add some nuts
and seeds to your oatmeal and actually different alm and
butter and you'll be good, all.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Right, myth or truth, let's do it. Bread in Europe
is better than bread in the USA. Better for you.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Okay, I would say truth, I'm really bad, I guess
or no questions by the way, I'm like, but I
would love to explain, but you okay.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
So bread is a really interesting one and kind of
goes back. And I actually like talking about pasta too,
because a lot of people, again I've been gluten free
for fifteen years, a lot of people are like, oh,
I go to Europe and I eat pasta and Italy
and I feel totally fine. But when I'm here, I'm
really bloated. Or I go to you know, France and
I epagetz and it's like totally fine. But I eat
you know, sandwich bread in the US and I feel
like crap. And really, I think, you know, there is

(58:13):
a narrative to be had about again, how things are grown.
That round up isn't used over there as much, but
you know there things are slipping over there as well.
But I think it's more about like the artisanal methods
of how we make our food. And that's why I love,
you know, why it's important to me to write a
cookbook instead of just like a book about all this stuff,

(58:36):
because how we prepare our food really does affect our
blood sugar really does affect our digestion. And you know,
in terms of you know, authentic sourdough, the slow the
slow process, the slow rise time, the fermentation that takes time,
our bacteria is actually eating some of the carb count,
it's eating some of the gluten, you know, and it's

(58:57):
just maybe going to be a little bit easier to
digest as the result for people and give people a
little steadier blood sugar as a result. But the pasta
situation I think is really interesting. So in Italy, you know,
the way that authentically or historically traditionally you make pastas
to slow dry it, you know sometimes outside, you know,

(59:19):
to get it hard. And people are saying, oh, well,
like you know, Italian pasta is lower in gluten because
of you know, the type of flower they use, and
I'm like, no, honey, it's actually higher in gluten because
it's semolina flower. It's actually a high protein glutens of protein,
high gluten flower because you want your pasta to have
that beautiful bite and elasticity, you want it to wind

(59:40):
around a noodle properly. So the Italians know that because
they know everything. But what they do is, you know,
instead of kind of flash drying it in an industrial process,
and of course like some Italian brands do that too,
I mean industrialized food. But the difference there is in
just what happens to the gluten. So if you think

(01:00:00):
about how you cook, you know, animal protein. Sorry, but
if you take a steak and you put it in
a hot skillet, it's going to shrink up and like
really really constrict. And that's what happens with protein. So
the same thing happens in our pasta when we change
the temperature drastically and really quickly, is that the gluten
is just going to be like much more of a
tight knit sweater versus like a nice loose weave, and

(01:00:22):
that's going to be a lot harder for our gut
to process. So it's just one of the reasons, and
it's not the only reason, but it's the one I
feel like is not talked about enough in terms of
our digestive system.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
So you're saying that the ones that are done industrially.
The way that they do the heating process is worse
because in Italy they sun dry them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah, it's just a slower process. And you can find,
you know, brands that do sell here that say Lenta
on the front or it'll say slow dried. And that's
just something to keep in mind.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Oh my god, that's such a good hag. Okay, slow
drive pasta everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah, you don't have to go to Italy. You can
look on the and it really is just on the
supermarket shelf you can usually find it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
So good to know, actually sour doough bread is better
for you. Yes, okay, great. Calbs make you bloated?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Oh myth, Yeah, myth.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
All carbs cause glucose spikes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Oh that's a tricky one. I mean, I would say fact,
but you know it depends what type of carb.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
You know, and gucospipes are normal.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Yeah exactly. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Calbs make you fat.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Again, like myth doesn't have to again, it depends how
high that glucose spike is going in your insolent situation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Thank you so much. This has honestly been like one
of the most informative I'm so sorry. I shot so
many questions at you, but I thought it was such
an interesting topic and I really appreciate the way that
you shared. It made so much sense. And I feel like,
hopefully carb before your new incredible book and this conversation
will help people love carbs and they're bodies a lot

(01:02:00):
more and I really hope that. So thank you so much,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
That's my mission. Thank you for sharing it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Of course. M

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Phoebe Lapine: The Truth About Carbs – How to Eat for Gut Health Without Fear

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Radhi Devlukia

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Phoebe Lapine: The Truth About Carbs – How to Eat for Gut Health Without Fear