A Web3 Primer with Jarrod Dicker

Jarrod Dicker, the former Commercial VP of Washington Post and CEO of Po.et, is back on Adlandia in his new role as General Partner at TCG (The Chernin Group).  

Jarrod talks through the fundamentals of Web3, if and where brands should be hopping in, who on the client-side should be leading the charge, and his thoughts on legacy media co-existing with on-chain up-and-comers.     

We also jam on why early content marketing signaled the current state of advertising and marketing, and the future of membership and community. 

If anyone understands the intersection of legacy media and Web3 it’s Jarrod - this one’s not to be missed. 

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Happy Holidays at Landia. Alexa and I wanted to bring
you a conversation that we had a few weeks back
just after Thanksgiving with three pet guests, Jared Dicker. Jared
Dicker is back to talk to us about all things
web three. As the Web three n f T Crypto
Conversation continues on, we wanted to take a step back
and really dig into some of the fundamentals around what

(00:26):
we need to know as marketers and the implications and
applications as we turned the page into twenty two. Hope
you enjoy I'm off my game today. No, you're not.
People are going to have to start making better content.
I think we're gonna be talking about this for a
long time. When you program for everyone, you program for
no one. I think it's a were purpose driven platform,
like we're trying to get to substance. How was that?

(00:49):
Are you happy with that? This is marketing therapy right
now and it really is. What's up? I'm Laura Currency
and I'm Alexa Kristen. Welcome back Landia. Happy holidays at Landia.
Because you know, I have a very big family, all
of which convenes at my house every year. This is

(01:09):
a tradition, right, yes, longtime tradition in my house watching
the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, and it was the first
time and very relevant to this conversation, I had heard
the word n f T s in such a mainstream setting.
You know, so much of what I've been following in
the n f T space either comes from you or

(01:31):
Web three, Twitter. And it was part of the parade
where they were talking about Disney putting out a series
of n f T s and special moments, which I
think you picked up as well. Yeah, there was a
bunch of a R work that they did. Actually, there
was a balloon. If no one saw this. My daughter,
my six year old daughter watches Macy's Day parade, so
I was sitting there with her and there was a

(01:53):
R balloon and a whole are Millennium falcon that came
onto the screen. It actually looked very real. She thought
it was a real balloon, and then it flew away
into the sky. It was amazing. But what was exciting
about it? This is why it was cool. To your point,
it was like super mainstream. As our producer Ryan shared,
it doesn't get more mainstream than the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade,

(02:17):
and then I want to step further and just looking
into it, Macy's was auctioning off ten n f T s,
all proceeds going to make a Wish Foundation and releasing
upwards of free n f T s. So are we
at an interesting inflection point. N f t S Crypto
Web three did not come up at my Thanksgiving table,

(02:37):
but I imagine it came up at many others, And
so we thought it was the perfect time Alexa to
have a long time friend and guests of Atlantia come
back on the show. Our three Pete Jared Dicker, general
partner at the Chairning Group ECG. He is coming back
to join us. And one of the things that Laura
and I have been talking a lot about is how

(02:59):
does the community in the show really become a bridge
from where we are today to where we're going tomorrow.
And Jared is a great guest who's always been kind
of not only open to but pushing towards a very
kind of real future. Really, like, here's the infrastructure that's
being built. These are the things that I can point

(03:20):
to and I know for certain that these are the
things that are being thought about, invested in, built, and
so we're going to continue to do that, continue to
have those types of guests and conversations. Jared is one
of those people. He has a really interesting kind of
background and I think perspective and all of that really
makes sense to where he is today. But music journalism,

(03:40):
do technology to media company, running ad tech and running
the advertising products at Washington Post now too, building funding
and finding the best in the crypto media space. What
was really interesting about the Jared conversation is this idea

(04:04):
of brands having the ability to drive value in ways
that they have never had. That the idea about getting
away from the just transactional, just advertising side of things. Again,
advertising is not bad. This is not a versus. This

(04:25):
is an and it's also it's an iteration, but it's
really about how do you start taking content again which
has been happening for the last ten to fifteen years,
and not just create value for your view but now
it's about creating value with your viewer, with your audience.

(04:47):
I think we're gonna have a lot more CEOs and
see a lot more CEOs in particular starting to look
at where they can extend their business, where can they
actually start to find more value market opportunities through web
three and specifically on the quote unquote brand side, specifically

(05:09):
on how that company starts to translate in new places.
I thought you were going to say transact because it
is a new way of thinking about transacting. That too,
That too, we are there with transaction, new transaction models,
new payment methods and models. I mean you can look
at Square, to coin based, to any kind of crypto wallet,

(05:32):
etcetera huge huge changes in this and how we buy,
how we invest right is completely changing. And one example
of that I will give you coin Based. The CEO
recently said, I see us eventually and probably near future
rather than far future, looking more like Instagram. Why because

(05:57):
that's how people interact. But to your point, transaction and payment,
how we pay and transact is completely changing into something
that I think is much more mainstream and how we live.
And you can look at shop you know, you can
look at Shopify, you can look at e commerce, you

(06:18):
can look at what Rachel Typographs started doing with McMackin
thinking about how do you bring the transaction and the
experience much closer together or one and the same. Um
I think that's influenced how we transact. I'm thinking a
lot about from the brand marketing side, what are the implications.

(06:38):
And there's two ways in right now that I am
able to start to begin to understand. The first one
is about loyalty and providing tokens two consumers, presumably in
a similar way you give people loyalty points. The loyalty

(07:01):
points from my experience, particularly in retail, you buy something,
your crew points to use those points to unlock offers
that could be free shipping and handling, for example, right
that could be early access to holiday sales. What I'm
learning in this space is having a token also gives
you access into this community. And it's really interesting to

(07:24):
think about how a token allows you access into a
curated dinner um with a hundred other people who are
interested in said brand that want to come together and
talk about specific industry. Right. So this idea of moving
from loyalty for more consumption now can become loyalty for

(07:46):
more content, loyalty for more experience, loyalty for more access,
loyalty for more like minded conversations ownership. So there's that
angle of it, and then the other one is the
transaction element. We've been tracking over the last few weeks.
The creation of the Constitution Dow. A number of people
got together and said, there is a copy of the

(08:09):
Constitution coming up for auction at South of Bees. We're
going to begin to crowdsource the funds to bid on
a copy of the U S Constitution one and twenty
and it created fractionalized ownership. So the spoiler is unfortunately
the Constitution Dow was outbid during this auction by a

(08:30):
single bitter, by a single bidder. But there's some amazing
statistics that came with this record number of money crowdfunded
uh in less than seventy two hours was over twenty
million dollars. I read on the Constitution Dow Twitter. They
had seventeen thousand, four d and thirty seven donors, with
the median donation size of two hundred and six dollars
six cents, with a significant percentage of these donations coming

(08:54):
from wallets that had been initialized for the first time.
This thing took off in a way that was fascinating
to watch, and despite the fact that they were outbid,
proof of concept in fractionalized ownership. Thinking about a future

(09:14):
where people are going to come together to buy things,
it's just fascinating to think about all of the different
things that this type of infrastructure can make possible totally.
And what I thought was the most exciting was that
it wasn't about a board ape, which I love board

(09:36):
eight yacht club. That's not it. But I think that
the world UM that's starting to learn about n f
t S and learning about taos, there's a lot of
skepticism right around the money that's spent, the things that
are being created, digital art, etcetera, etcetera. And for the
first time, I think that we saw a major historical

(09:58):
coveted artif act that people got around UM not only
with their dollars and their wallets, they got around in philosophy.
It made sense. And here's the thing. The thing that's
different about the DOW is that it says also says
as much about your identity and your belief system, what

(10:21):
you do and who you are as much as you know,
maybe the board ape you buy or the bio you
have for yourself and the work that you do, well,
your wallet becomes your bio right and there you go,
which is pretty crazy. Like if you start to think

(10:41):
about what you buy, what you invest in, and the
taos or the communities that you belong to that starts
making up an identity for you. Um that is maybe
more meaningful than your identity on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, cetera. Well,
it's because what you're actually investing in. It's about where

(11:04):
you're putting your wallet. And with that, we'll be right
back all right at Landia. We are back with our
partners that yield Mo, and this mini series we take
on how contextual targeting is being reimagined as brands make
every interaction with their consumer meaningful. Welcome Lisa Bradner, GM

(11:27):
of Data and Analytics from yield Mo. Thank you so much,
great to be back. Always great to talk to you guys, Lisa.
Every brand, every marketer is chasing the customer and the
consumer what they want, and brands really need to have
a perspective on where they show up, how they show up,
and what those consumers need. And I think it really

(11:47):
changes how marketers actually process and move through not only
their marketing organizational structure, but maybe more importantly right now,
their marketing process. How does that change the role of
the marketer and really getting more closely aligned with the need,
like a specific need of the consumer. First of all,

(12:08):
I would say I would argue we've swung too far
to sort of this insecure running after our customers hoping
they'll pay attention to us, as opposed to going back
to the brand d n A and saying, who am I,
what do I stand for? How do I show up?
What do I offer? And what cultural moments do I

(12:28):
belong in and building from there. So it's a mix, right,
It's it's what cultural moments are important to my consumers,
but what cultural moments are important to my consumers that
also fit for me. It's really closer to product management
in the sense of, yes, sure you do research and
you know what the market needs, and you understand what
competitors are offering, and you know what people are looking for.

(12:50):
But you've got a really clear brand value proposition and
you're clear where that belongs and where that doesn't, and
you're willing to sacrifice some of the you know, constant
running to have bigger impact in key moments. And I
think that that's part of it too, that sure, there's

(13:11):
an always on strategy and the media will always have
a level of always on, but that you're really thinking
about the cultural moments or the seasonal moments or the
audience moments where you need to be there and how
you show up there, and you're crafting and experience around
that that your media and creative partners are helping you

(13:31):
build soup nuts. I wish more media buyers, creative directors,
chief creative officers would actually think of themselves and by
the way, cmos would think of themselves as product marketers
in the way you're talking about, because it actually upends
the way you start to think about your media. It

(13:53):
starts to become a playground where you can get so
close to the consumer in visa V and text and
visa VI really testing those different signals. Um that it
actually just changes the whole kind of role of a
media person, a media buyer or or a creative Well,
and you just said something really important, right, the testing.

(14:15):
I mean, let's keep building on the product analogy. Right,
here's a prototype, here's an m v P. Let's put
it out, Let's let's see how people react to it.
Let's pull it back, maybe tweak it a little more.
Now we're ready for our big launch. But this notion,
and you know what it is, it's rooted in sort
of twentieth century TV campaigns. We have the campaign tadah

(14:36):
um versus real time data, analytics and learning that can
let us constantly iterate and get smart. You know, it's
thinking like a direct marketer, but not in the way
that we think of that sort of brand and performance line.
Is it performing from brand metrics, Is it performing from

(14:56):
sales metrics? Is it performing from long term brand health metri?
Is it performing in terms of next step of sales happening?
And everybody in your organization, brand or demand needs to
be incentive across all of those kpi s, so they're
working together. How does this then potentially bring brand and
direct response closer together? A few years ago we've talked

(15:18):
about it. You know, when you think like this, it
completely collapses the funnel. Is that what you're saying, and
and how do you think about that and really guide
your clients into um kind of that test and learned
mindset collapse the funnel. I totally understand why people use
that firm, but I think it's potentially dangerous because then

(15:40):
the temptation is to turn every single add into a
direct response add right, or try to cram that call
to action in your brand campaign. I think that the
real time nature of data and putting a dr message
in a brand message out in the same place and
testing and seeing which one people engaging with, which one's

(16:01):
working for you, which one is getting the next thing
to happen. And you know, constantly running your brand health
metrics so you make sure you're not undercutting your brands
to drive sales, Constantly running your sales metrics and making
sure that you're getting getting the sales numbers you need.
So it's it's more subtle in the sense of understanding

(16:27):
what each medium is best at, but then testing that
hypothesis constantly. Um, so you're testing like a direct marketer.
But that doesn't mean everything is a direct marketing message.
So Lisa, three things just to recap this conversation that
marketers need in their contextual toolbox, connecting media and creativity,

(16:48):
finding moments of serendipity, and common sense. How is yield
MO helping advertisers achieve one, two, or all three of
those things to get started on the roadmap to contextual reimagined. Absolutely, Uh,
you know the easiest way to get started is to
start now. And I think the common sense part of

(17:09):
this is starting to test and learn the reimagining context
rule and what that means. We have pre curated deals
that can be bought through your your trading desk and
can quickly be executed, So you can start to get
that data, you can start getting reporting, you can start
to understand how we're reimagining context rule the signals that

(17:31):
are available, and you can start imagining for your own
company all the ways that those signals could be used
to guide your marketing effort. You know, that's just one
of many ways to start. I love to talk to
about dynamic content a bunch of other things, but let's
start there. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you so much to you and the team at
yield Mo for this conversation and for supporting Atlantia. Thank

(17:52):
you so much for having me. It's always fun. M
Welcome back at Lantia. We have a good friend and
a third time at Landia guest, Jared Dicker, the general
Partner at Cherning Group BCG. Welcome back, Jared. Hello, great

(18:19):
to be here. So Jared, you have had this unlikely,
very nonlinear career. You started at out as a journalist,
You ran technology UH and the whole innovation advertising group
at Washington Post. You went over to be the founding
CEO of poet, a block chain startup that was looking

(18:42):
at how decentralization and journalism and blockchain was going to work.
And now now you're leading the crypto practice for the
Churning Group. How did you get here? It's um uh?
I mean, how do I describe? I like very much
accidentally have fallen into all of these different jobs that

(19:06):
have been extremely fun. Um. You know, as you mentioned,
I started as a music journalist. I'm a I'm a
huge music head, and you know, it was pretty sure
that that was going to be my life. And accidentally
got a job at the Hufbon and Post off Craigslist
and found, you know, found it so exciting to be
building that's a new fact. I didn't know it was Craigslist. Yeah,

(19:28):
I mean, and and like this wasn't even too long ago.
Like I worked at the Huffing and Post in two
thousand and ten, two thousen so um people were still
I guess looking for jobs off Craigslist then, or I
just didn't know what I was doing. But I ended
up at the Huffing and Post and really just started
to fall in love with the business side of media.
Found that it was a pretty low bar, I'm sure

(19:48):
many of the people who listened to this show listened
to the show in order to be inspired and kind
of think about how to lift that bar. And I
just found that to be a very like liberating, amazing experience,
so stayed in media for a while. UM My venture
into blockchain the first time was really a result of
kind of things that I was seeing in the media business.
Um you know, very obvious ones like big news and

(20:10):
deep bigs, but even more so, like the sentiment that
many media companies have, which is their content is valuable,
they invest talent, it's better than their competitors. But when
you looked at the um all the business models that
reward that content, it's all effectively the same. Like a
three million dollar investigative journalism piece from the New York
Times could render the same financial results as a buzz feed,

(20:34):
you know, viralistical article, even though so much money was
put into one and barely any investment was going into
the other. So that was kind of the main um
patalyst for me wanting to get into blockchain. The technology was, well,
what if all digital content starts to go on chain?
And what are really cool things that we can do

(20:54):
both in terms of leveraging provenance but also ownership and
control to kind of put more value on creative works
way too early, UM, but really kind of got me, UM,
got me obsessed with this space. And now you know,
I've been at Turning Group for about five six months. UM.
I get to work with all of these founders that

(21:14):
are now building you know, many of what you're building
on that vision or aligned with that vision that you know,
poet poet like originally seeked out to to solve. And
it's been absolutely phenomenal. And I'm I like love people
and love hanging out with people, and I'm extremely eight peeks.
So there's no better job for me than to work
with a million companies at once, So, Jared, so much

(21:36):
of the hype, intrigue, and interest around Web three is
seemingly coming at us from all angles, very very heavy
in Twitter and following, certainly your Twitter handle, which if
you're not following at Jared Dicker. There's so much Web
two to Web three insight knowledge being dropped. But let's
go to the one oh one Can you take us too?

(21:56):
And its most simplistic form, the definition or at least
the fundamental principles of Web three. What do we need
to abandon or or build from in Web two to
really understand the power and impact of Web three. Yeah.
So one thing I'll start with, since this is at
Landia and there's a lot of marketers that listen to this,

(22:17):
is that I think I think we're hearing a lot
more about web free because it is such a better
brand and name to market than crypto and blockchain for
the masses. You know, Web three has been a term
that's been thrown around, and there's you know, there's there's
some people that argue that we're we're not in Web three,
We're in Web four, you know, blah blah blah. But

(22:38):
like putting that all aside, I think Web three as
a um, as a description and as a marketing term
to describe what's happening as really stuck. And you know,
it's kind of become a bit obvious when people are
looking at differentiation and the evolution of how we're moving
from you know, social mobile web into blockchain has been

(22:59):
something that's really stock. So I think that that's been
a great marketing victory UM and one that I've been
leveraging and leading on very heavily as well. UM. The
ways that kind of like there's a bunch of different
directions really think about Web three, but the biggest I
think is um this bottoms up approach versus top down approach.
So when you think about media, I think it's a
great way to UM kind of really visualize this is

(23:21):
that you know, media for the past five years on
the Internet has been really top down, right, it's the
brand and you know, the brand owned distribution at one point,
you know, helps manage the audience, provides content and programming
that keeps people engaged, UM. But the relationship with the
consumer or the reader or the user UM is very

(23:42):
transactional and kind of one side. It's like you either
pay for content with money through a subscription and you
get access to it and it kind of ends there.
Or you know, you get content for free by means
of attention and advertising and the content is there, but
there's really been like no strong benefit for uh, the
individual consumer and reader beyond the programming and content itself.

(24:04):
And that's because of this top down approach. And Web
three is really leaning it on this bottom stuff approach.
So a great way to really kind of visualize this
as well is UM if you write for sub stack
In Web two, you're writing on a platform. You know,
you have a newsletter, Uh, you are um making money,

(24:25):
you know, or driving subscriptions off of your newsletter. So
Jared Dicker has a newsletter, He's making money off it.
You know. I'm like, I kind of want substack to succeed,
but I'm pretty indifferent, right because I'm not really incentivized.
Like if substack doesn't exist tomorrow, I can move my
blog over to you know, mirror or or medium or
other types of platforms. I'm like, okay, if other readers

(24:46):
are competitors, succeed, but again, like that's really not an
incentive that I have. I'm more interested, you know, if
my newsletter does well. And with Web three and bottoms up,
you effectively are incentivized to do all three. Right, You
as publisher want to make money and drive value off
of your work. Because of the way that token mechanics work,
you effectively have equity in that platform. So not only

(25:09):
are you making money and driving value out of your work,
but if the platform succeeds, you succeed as well. And
you're kind of rooting for all other writers and contributors
to be successful too, because that makes the platform more successful.
So it's a way more bottoms up collective kind of
holistic approach. And UM, what I'd say is like, I
don't think Web two and Web three is binary, and

(25:33):
we could go deeper on this, like I think there's
you know, there's there's areas of opportunity for both sides.
But the way I would think about web free is
a completely new evolution, new business models, new ways of
working together and coordinating, um, and really kind of an
unlocked from what we've traditionally been locked into, especially on
the media side, which has been advertising and subscriptions. What

(25:56):
pushed this frenzy around n f t S and as
you're going into it, practicality of how that's going to expand, shape, grow, etcetera.
So I think very quite simply like you could just
think of n f t S as bringing digital ownership
to the Internet. Um. You know, in all of its
existence of the Internet, UM, we have presumed that anything

(26:18):
published or put online can easily be replicated, mimicked, stolen,
and we built entire businesses around that, right, like Napster
basically deconstructed music and then we built music again back
up through Spotify, an Apple and SoundCloud. Et cetera. Um,
we saw it in digital media, right, Like you know,
the whole entire business of the Huffing and Post was

(26:39):
around paraphrasing New York Times articles but winning in search
and social because we wanted we if we got more traffic,
we would drive more revenue through advertising. So the whole
kind of ethos of the Internet was that nothing that
was really done digitally to be probably owned. Thus we
built no business models around that. And the main disruptor

(26:59):
with n f t S is that, for the first
time ever, digital ownership has probably come to the Internet,
and um, you know that's that's a massive impact that
can't be overstated, but I think is very underappreciated and
not yet understood because we've just been trained and have

(27:19):
worked and have you know, engaged on a web where
that just has never been the case. So the main,
the main thing to know with n f t S
is that it is a function and digital ownership. I
think people focus on what's transacting on openca and looking
at JPEG's and digital art and they start to think
about n f t S in this very macro vision,
which is like everything needs to be a hundred thousand

(27:41):
dollars or everything's collectible or everything's tradeable UM. But it's
really important to not think about n f t s
as a product. You really have to think of NTS
as a process, which is, you know, when you put
something online, you want to be able to prove ownership
UM and provenance of that sort of information. So right
now we're seeing that happen in digital art UM. We're

(28:02):
seeing a massive kind of acceleration towards music. But my
my point of view is that every single piece of
content or i P or information that goes on the
Internet will start as an n f t and and
we're going to very quickly enter a world where every
single thing is an n f t UM. You know,

(28:23):
everyone is going to be able to seek prominance of
information who created what. It really opens up like massive
opportunities throughout a variety of industries. I mean, one of
which is ticketing. Right Like if all tickets were n
f t s, UM a lot of like league owners.
Let's say you know, the owner, the owner of the
New York Giants UM sells primary tickets and then in

(28:47):
the secondary market when they go on StubHub, they you know,
see no value return of that right, The fans who
buy the tickets could resell them, resell them, resell them,
resell them, and the owners, you know, get no benefits
there if tickets become an en T. That's a really
good example, by the way, Yeah, because if tickets become
an n f T, all the like royalties are programmable

(29:08):
through smart contracts. So if you issue a ticket as
an n f T, you say, you know, primary sales
are a hundred dollars and all subsequent secondary sales ten
percent goes back to the owner. And that happens completely programmably,
Like there doesn't need to be a human intermediary. It's
just every time that ticket is resold and goes from
a wallet to another wallet, ten percent goes back to

(29:29):
the owner. So now you live in a world where owners, right,
or artists or whomever right, Like it could be musicians
who are selling tickets. They don't just benefit from secondary markets,
but now they encourage it. Right. The idea of StubHub
is actually fascinating, and um there is there's like some
conversations happening where you know, eventually secondary markets may be

(29:49):
more lucrative or artists or owners or you know, people
that work in creative entertainment type businesses or secondary just
is a lot more lucrative than primary. What I think
it's also important to think about, like as I mentioned,
Web two two, Web three is kind of evolutionary um
and Chris Dixon has a great point about things being skew.
More pick is that we're kind of in that phase

(30:13):
of blockchain, which was very similar to when we went
from linear and print to the web to mobile, where
you know, until it becomes very obvious what's foundational and native.
Everybody has like a mobile strategy and a mobile website
and thinking about how to retrofit this new technology into

(30:33):
their existing models, and then all of a sudden, right
the app store comes out and it's a holy ship
moment where oh, this is what mobile is, and this
is how mobile native things are built, and you know,
like that kind of really sparks and becomes obvious to
the masses what this new industry is. In blockchain, we
are in that intermediary phase where there's a lot of
companies thinking about their blockchain strategy or how they can

(30:56):
leverage it with their existing business, or what their blockchain
angle is going to be, and all of a sudden,
something's going to happen rather quickly. That is very blockchain
foundational and obvious where we're going to see, right, the
blockchain native companies start to rise and be pure Web three,
and it's just going to become very obvious that we're
in this next space. So I'd be careful to like

(31:16):
focus too much on how blockchain works for your existing
business and pay more attention to, you know, the things
that are truly decentralized in the Web three that are
going to become foundational and lead us in this next half. Yes,
what are you creating new and who are you creating with?
I think is the way I think about it and
process right, and it is a whole new process. So Jared,

(31:38):
I want to I want to break down a couple
of things because for a lot of our listeners, their marketers,
their marketing leaders breakdown Providence. It's actually so I was
an art student and Providence came from art, right, So
the way you knew who created a work and then
who owned that work was Providence. There was a date,

(32:01):
a history of that ownership passed down quite literally on paper,
and the value of that particular asset, and so talk
about why Providence. You've said it a few times in
the conversation, is so critical to the idea, the process
of blockchain of web three. And then what I also

(32:23):
think is under talked about, especially in on the marketing side,
a smart contract. Mm hmmm, yeah, so on the provident
side of things. I mean, I think like this is
again blockchains. You know, the biggest core value you know,
being being you know, effectively an immutable database is that

(32:44):
you are able to kind of see where information derives
from um and then you could effectively build things on
top of that. So UM I said before that I believe,
you know, I'd like to think about n f T
is not just as a product, but as a process.
And no, and that all digital content is going to
be an n f team means that every single like

(33:05):
inception of an idea or i P frankly, whenever it's
published to something M is going to store all the
information of who created it, you know, who were the collaborators,
who purchased it, what hands it exchange And you could
really kind of drill that down and you know to
the point that you were making with art. And I
think while we're seeing so much um, so much adoption

(33:28):
and excitement happening in the digital art world is because
it is carrying that ethos over right. You can see, um,
get artists from original creators. You know, that value is
perceived and purchased, and then you could see like a
lot of people find value in purchasing something that might
have been owned by you know, Alexa Christian previously, like
there's there's a value apprual that is built on top

(33:51):
of this sort of providence and blockchain you know, really
kind of opens and enables that. Um. What I loved
about it in the early IT days was, you know,
and this was like a time work. Fake news was
really you know, the topic to sure was that, you know,
there could be a world where you're going through your
Facebook news feed and you see a video of Obama

(34:11):
speaking and it may look like Obama and sound like
Obama and have the CNN logo. Um, but it might not.
It might be a deep fake. It might have been
created by someone else, you know, maybe false information. And
I believe that there's going to be more value brought
to the Internet by being able to kind of expose
and bring that information up. So the main kind of

(34:32):
ethos of that is that you are able to kind
of like build a supply chain around everything that is
happening and you're able to kind of track it down
to its inception, which you know is great information and
data to have, but also so important when it comes
to perceive value and ability to transact and and um
kind of better understand like purchased a good and truth. Yeah,

(34:55):
I mean it gets pretty heavy in terms of truth
and verifying truth yeah, um, which is I think pretty exciting,
especially when you go back to the fake news, which
I don't think we're out of. Yeah, And like smart contracts,
you know, just quickly go hand in hand. It's like
if you're if all information is going to be put
on chain, then you want to be able to programmably
set the rules of operations of how that's going to work,

(35:17):
so you know the price of it being purchased, you
know what secondary markets set up start to look like
we're really trying to figure out how you build more
efficiency in that. And that's kind of goes the whole
ethos of kind of the ownership economy, right. It's like
we are we are for the first time, like able
to prove ownership digitally on digital content on the Internet.

(35:39):
And what's fascinating is that, Yes, we're like seeing all
of these new platforms and crypto native opportunities emerge that
are built off of that. But think about how much
we have to rethink how we've structured our businesses on
the Internet for the past twenty years. Right, we assume
that digital ownership wasn't possible because it wasn't and now

(36:00):
all of a sudden its So I think we're going
to see a lot of existing like industries and businesses
really start to rethink, like one, how this affects them
and to what the opportunity could possibly be for them
to build better businesses because for most of them, um,
you know, the Internet was highly disruptive for a lot
of these legacy businesses, whether it was like newspapers, record labels,

(36:20):
um or broadcast stations, and pre Internet was really an
error where they owned everything. They didn't just like own
the assets, but they own their audience, they own distribution,
and you know, this idea of digital ownership could bring
a lot of that back. So I think it's interesting
to look at both sides of the coin and brands
have had to keep pace with that. I think a
lot of marketing teams cmos are thinking about how does

(36:44):
this impact my communication strategy, How does this impact my
marketing plan? How does this impact what I'm buying, How
I'm buying, where I'm buying, why I'm buying. What would
your advice be, two brands, because to me, this isn't
a should I. This is a matter of when I
and what's the process brands have to go through to

(37:06):
adapt to what will become the next iteration of the web,
I mean the whole i E conversation and what's happening
in this space with kind of n f T s
and and and p fps which are kind of the
profile pictures, the board at clubs, the crypto punks, the
ones that are kind of umm becoming people's identity. Is

(37:30):
that I p starting to become compossible, which is fascinating.
So a lot of these major n f T projects,
you know, namely board Apiacht Club. Um they've sold ten
thousand apes and if you purchase one of these apes,
you have full commercial rights to do whatever you want
with that ape. So um they have, like the creators

(37:52):
of board apes, like make money off the first purchase
and make money off all subsequent purchases. However, if you
buy that ape. You could use that for whatever you want.
You can build t shirts, you can sell them, you
can leverage their likeness. Um. A friend of mine built
a character out of his board a called Jenkins the valet. Um.
There their their literary writers. Um, they built this entire character,

(38:17):
you know, wrote this entire story and created this narrative
around this ape who was the valet at the board
a yacht club and all the things that he sees
and experiences, and uh, it got massive. You started selling merch,
you know, physical merch, digital merchant. Now he's signed the
cia UM to do a book deal and as a
huge following on Discord I follow Yeah, a massive following

(38:40):
on Discord. But it's like it would be a situation
where like Disney would create a new movie and effectively say, well,
any of the fans who purchase or part of the
community could go and build on top of that I
P and monetize. Right. So it's a completely new way
of thinking about I P UM and the compossibility of
i P which effectively is like i P is put

(39:01):
into you know, into the ether, and then other people
could build on top of it as they please. But
that's a major shift, um and I think it's a
shift that a lot of brands need to think about
because there's definitely a lot of benefit to enable that,
to open that up, to get people more deeply engaged,
to have more affinity with brands, um you know, but

(39:22):
arguably like isn't going to work everywhere, Like you're not
going to see Marvel or Disney or others kind of
brushed to that too quickly. Um. So that's a big
thing that I think is like worth everyone who's listening
to this spending their time on like really kind of
seeing all of them building of IP and leverage of
IP that's happening in the n f T world, and
that is because of just how the business model and

(39:43):
structure is set up. You have to be very authentic
in this space. Uh. I think I think you could
probably say that for everything, like for every um you know,
big marketing trend or you know. The way the way
I've been saying and now is like once it makes
the like digital or ad week or ad age um
like things, things, things start to bubble up. And I

(40:03):
think it's very important in this space to remain authentic
if you want to reach the right audience and you know,
be perceived well and bring the most value because this space,
more than any is just very tribal. Right, people have
to build reputation like both like socially but like quite
literally on chain, Like everything you do with your cryptoolities

(40:25):
is like reported. So like you know, people people build reputation. Um,
you have to like be in and spend time and
spend energy like really kind of showing value. And I
think you know, brands that may try to come in
and do an n f T drop um, you know,
could often come across as like an authentic So I
think there needs to be a lot of time really

(40:46):
put in and thought about how how brands play, where
they play, what that value actually is. Because I think
for most, at least at this time, since it's early,
it's better for them to stay out of it than
for them to just artificially be in it. Here's what
I think it's really exciting. I actually think for the
true brand strategist, right, and that's not just marketing, that's

(41:08):
looking at the brand, the business, the business models, those
types of things. For the true brand strategist, this is
an incredibly exciting time. So it's not just about associating
your brand and your product right and thinking about how
does it live in this new world. It's really about
how to extend that brand ethos and purpose and philosophy

(41:34):
right into all new spaces and places. That to me,
when you say authenticity, that's what I think about, and
that it's like almost the possibility in my mind. Why
I get so excited when you were talking to you
see me like bouncing. Why I get so excited is
because for the true kind of business minded marketer and strategist,

(41:58):
this is kind of a turn almost to a classic
era of marketing that actually drives new marketplace value. And
if you're thinking about your brand like that, if you're
thinking about your infrastructure like that, you will win Alexa.
As you're saying that, I'm thinking about there's ten thousand

(42:19):
iterations of the board eight. There is only one iteration
of most legacy brand logos. You would never dream of
iterating on a logo that has been in the market
for over a hundred years, that that identity and the
equity that exists there. Thinking about breaking up one of
those logos into ten thousand pieces and then handing it

(42:40):
as too shareholders who can make it their own now
instead of having this one vertical identity. There are ten
thousand ways to move into new spaces and places that
all will come back to a central ethos, right, I
mean is that fair to say? Yeah? A way to
really just boil that down in one sentence is that

(43:03):
every single one of your customers becomes a paid influencer, right, So,
like right now, like I'm drinking like a spin drift,
and I have an iPhone and you know these are
like utilities and things I consume, but anyone who sees me,
I'm effectively marketing their products for them, right, But right
now I don't get any benefit out of that. Um

(43:26):
And of course, like you know, there's an argument that
I should, right, And that's not the way it's set
up in Web three. It's different right in Web three,
because you are both, like I wrote a piece called
wise subscribe when you can invest, right, you're effectively a
consumer and a shareholder of that brand. Right. You are
thus incentivized right to to promote it, to be a

(43:47):
part of it. So if you're building native Web three,
you know you are really thinking about each of your
customers as like an influencer. You know, a subscriber as
someone who shares mutually beneficial value and tries to push
the brands. And that's how you really kind of need
to set things up. That's also why right the the
authenticity is so important because I do believe that in

(44:10):
Web three, the biggest opportunity today, right is in the
active consumer. I think like the biggest things that we're
seeing unlocked, at least from an investment perspective, And what
I'm looking at is this notion of seven consumer, so
people being able to participate and engage around the clock, right,
not limited on time. Um, we kind of saw that

(44:33):
unlock with point base right point based basically said you
don't have to trade markets between not like nine and five,
and not over the weekends, because that's when it opened
into encloses. You trade on your time, and there's you know,
we're seeing that across a variety of industries, Like we
invested in a company called z dot Run, which is
a virtual horse racing game where people purchase horses right
as n f T s. They could breathe them, they

(44:54):
could raise them, and then they could earn value and
upside right if their horse places whenever they want. You
don't have to purchase the physical horse. You don't have
to go to the derby. You know, you're not constricted
by physical limitations. And on the other side, right, it's
like this idea of like ownership, like ownership is massive
and it is unlocking a ton of different things. So
it is it is foundationally something that is completely new

(45:17):
UM and you know that is going to take a
lot of like infrastructure focus and the architecture of how
things currently exist in order to get comfortable doing that,
which is why I believe like a lot of these
things are going to happen natively in blockchain first before
they're really going to happen in more legacy environments. Some
of the things you're saying. And also this idea makes

(45:39):
me think so much of bology, Sir ronson um inheriting
versus founding, and it is everyone should read it. It
is brilliant and it is right. And we've been in
this kind of um inheritance world and I want to
this is all jump us into media. You know, if
you think about all the major media at companies in

(46:01):
the world, they've been inherited literally passed down from families, right,
and you think about that, and now web three is
this opportunity and blockchain has created this opportunity that to
your point, if you are a practitioner, if you like
really learn the technology, really understanding get involved with the community,

(46:25):
then you become a practitioner. The idea and the potential
for partnership and founding. I think we're going to see
a completely kind of new twist. So that takes us too.
What is the future of media? Jared? Yeah, So, I um,
I mean you you head on a topic that will

(46:46):
segue nicely into this. I always believed for like years
that you know, the media business was somewhat evolutionary that
you know, we had advertising and subscriptions and you know,
all kind of innovations for new models kind of emerged
out of that. So you know, e commerce was effectively
a part of advertising, and you know, subscriptions kind of
moved through like membership type models. But basically we had

(47:09):
to foundational pillars that were built out of and Web
three is really kind of the first time, like in
you know, a hundred years, that we've had a very
revolutionary type model and it kind of has to do
with we're seeing like a lot of people that are
building in media leveraging it right now. So the ability
to basically crowdfund your media business before it launches as

(47:32):
an n f T. So there's some companies that are like,
I'm going to write about this topic. You know, this
is our editorial plan. We're going to do it for
six months. This is the amount that we need to raise.
Right In exchange, you get this n f T, which
gives you, you know, kind of like founder type relationships
with the media company itself. You may get social tokens

(47:54):
out of that that if you governance right, so you
can help us decide what we should cover, what topics
are interesting, if there's treasury, what events we should do.
But really kind of like reinventing the idea of how
media companies need to be structured versus traditional VC or
advertising models or subscription models or billionaire buyers like and

(48:17):
what's amazing with that sort of structure is that your
readers are, you know, kind of foundational in the success
of your company. And it's kind of built up a
sentiment that I think we have today, right, Like I
subscribe to a lot of substacks. I subscribe to some
media UM and like at least like news media or

(48:37):
written media UM. For the most part, I'm doing it
right in in a somewhat altruistic way, like I may
read the content, but I may but I really like
the topic, and I want them to continue writing because
I think it's important. And I may want to support
the writer because they're my friends, and all of those
kind of feelings could completely be stronger if you know,

(48:57):
I moved over to feeling more like an investor because
that's kind of what I want to do, right, Like
the content is cool, but I really believe in what
you're doing. I want to support you, and how can
I start to align incentives to do that. So that's
really where I think Web three revolutionizes media in a
very fantastic way. UM, where you know, you really have

(49:18):
this core group of people who effectively are baked in distribution,
right because they're incentivized to do so. They want to
share this content, um, they're hyper incentivized to engage, so
there's no like gimmix to get people to click or
to get people to spend time in the chat. Anyone
who spends time in these discords or these dows or
like sees the activity happening there because everyone is kind

(49:40):
of sharing the same purpose as opting in and seeking
and and and finding value and kind of what they're doing.
And that's kind of like I always use the hufband
and Post example, right, because we kind of did this
in twenty ten. Um. The success of the hufband and
Post really wasn't about the content um going viral right
or winning search and social, which is very important. It

(50:02):
was about the comments section, if you remember, like so
many people would spend time there, they comment, they'd gauge
a conversation. We've built an intrinsic badging mechanism which basically,
the more you participated, the more you completed, the more
you unlocked. Maybe you were able to curate conversations or
be a leap moderator. Eventually, blog on the post and
crypto is that what three? Is that with extrinsic added

(50:26):
on as well, So not only is it valuable for
you socially, but now it can also be valuable for
you financially. And that changes the whole ethos. That kind
of how we think about this. And that's not going
to be possible for like you know, WAPO or Wall
Street Journal or buzz Feed or others to really do right.
They have their existing business and they'll probably leverage n
f T s and there'll be great things that they

(50:46):
could test and do there. But to really see the
revolutionized mechanisms that are going to happen, We're going to
see things happen more foundationally, and I think like we'll
see that, like the creator economy was a great bridge
to that because people were leaving aditional jobs. They're building
on their own, don't realize, hey, this is really hard. Um.
I want to find other like minded people to build with,

(51:07):
and they're gonna effectively build their own media companies that
I am very hopeful that they're going to build those
on top of platforms like Mirror and like you know,
these Web three type platforms that have built these functions
and mechanisms for them to do that. What happens to
CNNs and NBCs even more important? I look at Netflix.
Netflix is still a one pipe distribution. They own it,

(51:29):
they decide, right, they decide the content, the programming, they
own it, and they distribute it. Yeah. So my feelings here,
and I kind of said this before, is that I
feel Web three at this moment is really about the
active consumer. Um. I think the passive consumer platforms are
more powerful than ever and more valuable than ever. Like
I think it's going to be very hard to disrupt Spotify,

(51:52):
where I get all the music in real time for
ten dollars. Netflix has the best programming. Um, you know,
when I consume Netflix kind of sitting back, I want
to be told what to watch. Um. Same with CNN.
So I think that there's a place, Like I said, like,
I don't think it's binary. I don't think Web three
needs to sweep through. That's why I do believe the biggest,

(52:14):
like the biggest like holy Ship moments are going to
come from foundationally Web three properties that show us how
these things you're done from the ground up, because I
do think, you know, like a great examples Twitter, I
think Web three conversation and crypto has made Twitter, a
web to centralized platform, more powerful than ever. Where people

(52:34):
are spending time, that's where the conversations are, That's where
people are putting their n f t s as their
profile pictures. So there's definitely a place. I think the
focus for Web three and the excitement for Web three
should be around the active consumer. How you can better
incentivize people to engage or do things. Thinking about both
the intrinsic social and extrinsic financial mechanics that crypto unlocks
and really try to see how those could you know,

(52:56):
better affect your business. As you're talking about the implication
stions for the media industry around subscription versus investing that transition,
I really don't see much of a difference on the
brand side either. On our last episode with MICHAELA. Solar March,
who was the former CMO of Tishman, we were talking

(53:18):
about dows and the idea of consumers coming in um
around brand, around spaces, around clubs, whatever the case is,
and actually having that level of ownership through investment. What
are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean I feel
like if you go to like my ethos that all
digital content will be n f T s, then like

(53:40):
the biggest opportunity I think for brands is, you know,
anything that they do physically should have something UM connected
to them digitally, right because now there's a lot of
value and perceived function on that. So, like I think,
like the fashion industry, you know, we're seeing like in
games like rollblocks or even you know more kind of
blockchain based games, people are paying a lot of money

(54:03):
for like assets, you know what they look like, um,
you know how they could use them within the functions
of how they work within kind of more virtual worlds.
I was going to say metaverse, but I promised myself
I wouldn't say metavers on this and this on this thing.
But like I think, I think for brands like a
philosophical way and like very like you know, kind of
heavy way to think about it. Is this, right, we

(54:27):
we spend more time than ever online. Um, Like I
talk to probably hundreds of people a day online who
know me through my Twitter avatar or through my email
address or you know, through Instagram. Like, however, however I'm
communicating with them. Rarely anyone sees me physically, right besides

(54:48):
my family and maybe some when I meet for dinner.
And the whole movement of web three is more people
living online, right, Like how we make money online, you know,
how we spend our time. Time and identity and status
are massive unlocks and opportunities on the brand side for
what it looks like when we live online, Like I

(55:09):
wear this hat, I wear this shirt at tattoos. Right,
It's like, if more people see me online and I
care about my presence, then I'm going to want to
represent the brands that I love. Have the kind of
perceived you know, kind of notion and identity that I want.
And that's where I think brands really start to start
to really push on lock and the whip three, the

(55:30):
captis and you guys don't know the stat better. Like
the early days of e com, remember it was like, oh, women,
women like aren't spending money online? And now what like
I think they make up? But think about web three.
It's like, right now people are transacting with meta masks
wallets and they're buying things on open sea. But one

(55:53):
thing to note is like, and I don't have the
science behind this, but I am way more willing to
spend thousands of dollars out of my meta mask wallet
that I am to spend thousands of dollars out of
my actual wallet. Like just the functions we talked about us,
but the functions of being able to make that purchasing
decision and buy it because digital goods hold value is
a way easier decision for marketers to think about then

(56:14):
be actually like spending money out of my pocket. Um.
But the second thing is is that right now it's
it's mostly dues, right, and if blockchain and this sort
of way to transact and digital ownership is basically going
to be taking over e commerce. Think about the opportunity
for brands and all of these companies that are going

(56:35):
to bring in those audiences, and that should be where
the focus is. The focus should be like how do
I bring everything that I do and the value that
is perceived on me physically digitally because now I have
the functions to do it, and how do I bring
my customers for that ride? And I think there will
be a massive opportunity there. Chris Dixon was just on

(56:55):
Tim Ferris. It was actually it was a great to do.
Listen to that podcast. It was great, it was fantastic.
And one of the things Christic since that was he
was like, point based didn't need marketing, doesn't need marketing.
Coin Based now has a CMO, but whatever, Right, this
person didn't need marketing. This person didn't need marketing because
their fans and members are also owners and those people

(57:21):
and this is what you're going back to, Like the influencer, right,
It puts so much more meaning around the influencer. Those
people are doing the marketing. Naturally, they're incentivized to do
the marketing. But I think what's really interesting for marketers
and to your point about like brands getting involved in
this and looking for the right partners and those types
of things is like, in a bit, it's kind of like, also,

(57:43):
look no further right than your best customer, and how
are you working with them, How are you leveraging them,
how are you investing in them versus what they're buying
from you? The marketing teams now need to be thinking
about thousand residents totally. I think that's the great idea.
The biggest thing that and and and this already exists, right,

(58:07):
these brands and marketers and whatever. Companies just have to
like send an internal note and asking like I get
you know, tons of d ms a day from people
that work in agencies or media companies or elsewhere that
you know, um wanted like are fascinated with this space,

(58:28):
like people people at Washington Post. I had a group
of like fifteen people who were into crypto, who deeply
understood the space. Who were you know, frankly like expert consumers.
And the way the way to really go about it
if you're one of these larger companies and you're trying
to figure out what's going on, is one ask who's involved,
Like talk to people within your organization. Guarantee there's many

(58:51):
of them that are buying n f t s that
are in the discord, groups that contribute to dows Um,
that are building again, like I said earlier, reputation around
their work and making the connections and figure out how
to pull those people up. It's kind of like and
this is like so like philosophically sound for dows right,
Like why I love dallos Um for like many sorts

(59:12):
of reasons, one of which is like, you aren't like
categorizing value and talent based on a hierarchy, Like anyone
who's worked in a large company knows that, like the
sea level makes the decision there acratic hierarchy exactly and
DAWs effectively like break up that hierarchy. Everyone could contribute,

(59:33):
could share ideas. You know, everything is pretty much like
discussed and you know what kind of brought to a
vote in terms of governance, but it really kind of
breaks down that structure. And you could argue right that
there is a ton of value lost in companies being
structured this way. I don't think like all companies should

(59:54):
be dallas Um by any means, but I think there
should be certain groups or areas, or at least certain
decisions like, Hey, we're a media company and we want
to figure out if we should be doing things in
you know, um like this new platform, and if we
should invest in it. Traditionally, they'll write a memo, they'll

(01:00:15):
discuss it with the executive team, and the executive team
makes a call. What they should really be doing is
grabbing the twenty five people that work at that company
who are experts to actually live this world and let
them figure it out together and make that decision. Yeah. Well,
I think it's really interesting in the big shift because
I worked at you for a long time and it
is the company that actually built the manager right to

(01:00:36):
find what middle management was is that, Yes, grab the people,
hire the practitioner and work with them to figure this out.
But also go and work with your customer. I think
that customers right want very specific things, and they know

(01:00:56):
your brand sometimes and I think more so now and
is going to be increasingly better than the marketing manager
working on the brand. Yeah, of course, of course. And
like that's where again like to really kind of go
full circle in the conversation. It's really a bottom suck mentality.

(01:01:17):
It's welcoming in you know, your your your collaborators, your colleagues,
your employees, your customers, and really trying to build a
new way to come to better decisions, to kind of
move forward value value right, And it's probably doing that.
I mean, dows are still early, right, Like we we

(01:01:39):
wrote about this one article on dark Star, which is
probably my favorite one so far, which was basically like
that these crypto communities are the MC mansions of the Internet.
So basically like digital ownership is here and everyone is
like launching an n F team project and building a
community and setting up a dowb um. And it's kind
of like in the eighties or nineties when everyone like
moved to like rural areas and their mega mansions, right,

(01:02:03):
but there was like no downtown. No one spent time
building community activities. It was just like a mortgage lender
and a bank. And now like a lot of them
are deserted or you know people people no longer live there,
they move back to the cities. So it's very important,
I think to focus on programming when it comes to
like building these relationships and building these communities. And I

(01:02:25):
think some dows, depending on who's in them, will do
that very well. But I think to assume that all
dows are going to do that isn't necessarily the case.
So I think like programming is very important. People that
are spending time and helping to coordinate and drive conversations
will be critical to like seeing seeing these things succeed
long term. So Jared, what should marketers be watching in

(01:02:47):
the media space or who should they be watching in
the media space? Yeah, I mean I think like Twitter,
like Twitter is the best place for this um, you know,
especially if you want to keep up to date on
you know, certain thought leadership. UM. I call it like
business fiction UM, where like people are just coming up

(01:03:09):
with crazy ideas that they just work to make factum,
which I find very like motivating UM. Or like what
new like n f T projects or products or programs
are really coming out? UM. People people do great lists,
so like I would like check out like Koopa. Troopa
is a great handle who creates these lists of like
who you should follow if you want to learn more

(01:03:29):
about Taos, if you want to learn more about n
f T s UM. I feel like those things are
more like like are just so more and more common.
But that's the best way. I mean a lot of
the builders and the thinkers and um, you know people
who are spending time they're not like writing articles, are
necessarily doing interviews. I mean some are obviously like we're here,
but for the most part, people are spending most of

(01:03:50):
their time on Twitter, creating content, putting ideas out there,
having discourse with one another. So to really go deep,
one like find the right people, which you easily account
on Twitter, and two you have to put in the effort,
like if you want to learn about web three, sign
up for a wallet, you know, get on Twitter, get
into the discords, like really throw yourself in it for

(01:04:12):
two weeks. I guarantee you'll get like addicted and it'll
just kind of open your eyes as for what's possible,
and you'll both be inspired but also pretty convinced that
this is, you know, the next the next front, here
an opportunity. Who are you watching from a media company
standpoint me, you're leading the crypto practice presumably, I mean
the Turning Group is but investing in media companies and

(01:04:34):
new media companies entertainment for a while. Now. This is
obviously not investment advice, just disclaimer. So i'd like, I
don't really I believe that there is opportunity in bottoms
of media that is going to happen through dows and
you know companies like mirror Um which don't necessarily need

(01:04:57):
investment or funding because they're basic doing that with the community,
with the people UM. I actually have yet to really
get super excited about traditional media companies and web three
I think and exists and new media companies and web

(01:05:18):
three that are outside of those like smaller kind of
like bottoms up consortiums. I actually think that the brands,
like the companies that are building like platforms, whether that's
around like learning, you know, different ways to engage with
blockchain or gaming, are actually going to become the media companies.
Like I think we're like it's funny, right, we always

(01:05:39):
talked about brands publisher and it became such like a
weird like b S type thing UM. But in the
case of it wasn't originally of course, like all Laura's
clients do it the best. But in like this space,
like some of the most provocative thinkers and workers are
the CEOs or the people that work at these platforms
and they're creating content and they're bringing community, and I

(01:06:01):
think like the media companies that will kind of look
at and consume, and you know, in like like like
focus our energy on, are actually going to be companies
that provide a service and value that want to like
target more top of funnel, create content, focus on distribution,
and media companies are kind of built out of that.
I mean a big one, a big one that I

(01:06:23):
always talked about that I think is like very relatable,
is like if local news was it now, So if
local news effectively you're gonna need another show. There's so
much innovation going on in this area. By the way,
there's so much innovation. I just want to like for
marketers out there. Local news used to be a service, right, Like,

(01:06:44):
its role was really informing the community around you know, crime,
new business, selections, government, um et cetera. And then just
because of the business models, they had to move away
from that, right, advertising became a scale game. So your
local newspapers started focusing on national actions and national stories
and you were like, I don't need them for this, right, Like,
I think the cool idea for this would be if

(01:07:06):
there was a community that you know, each household purchased
a token right that gave them ownership of the local newspaper,
and that token allowed them to kind of choose and
vote who to hire, as like the editor um allowed
them governance on what to cover, so like basically, you know,

(01:07:28):
the residents would be able to say, don't cover you know,
the mid term elections, cover why this five G tower
is in my backyard and who's funding it, and like
let's get to the bottom of this, like really being
hands on with getting local news to like service the community.
That's an amazing use case and it's less And this
is what I love about Web three. People focus so
much on the financials, but that is way less about

(01:07:50):
the financials and way more about the influence and more
about saying, I'm not investing in this because I want
to make money and dairy drives the bottom line. Of course, Jared,
you have to come back. We have a part two,
Part three. We didn't even get to secondary markets. There's
so much more to unpack on the brand side. But
as you know, before you go, we need the jard

(01:08:11):
Dicker Web three bye bye bye. So what am I buying?
I am I am actually buying Meta like not the stock,
but I love the even though like I know there's
so much discussion around like Facebook et cetera, and the announcement.

(01:08:32):
I am very butt in on the idea of what
oculus has done and how quickly it's been able to move,
and I think there's a lot of like outside innovation
that needs to influence it. But I am pretty bought
in on that area of meta in the future. Okay,
what are you saying goodbye to? By? What am I

(01:08:53):
saying goodbye to? Um? Honestly, I think I think I
think I'm saying about it. I mean, this is a
is me being totally roped into Web three, but I'm
definitely saying about the traditional advertising. Yeah, well, thank you.
I hope we all are so there will not be
banner ads on the blockchain. No, I think I think
brand dollars will exist, But I think brand should start
focusing on like n f t s, building stronger communities,

(01:09:15):
how to like build more loyal audiences, like just use
your money elsewhere right, Like, Because if brands are purchasing
advertising in order to reach audiences and convert to purchase goods,
you know what better way, going back to the example earlier,
if you could start to build mechanisms where if you
are you know, effectively advertising for a brand, but that
brand is also like recognizing that now and rewarding you.

(01:09:39):
Then do they really need to be spending money to
target you or do you actually start to find those
brands find that value because you're incentimized to do that. So,
I mean, that's right obvious and that writing is on
the wall. But a lot of people will challenge that
and be like, you know, it's you know whatever, gazillion
dollar market and the dollars need to go somewhere. You know,
I do believe that that that that marketers, you know,

(01:09:59):
especially one is listening right here, and you know, advertisers
should get smart about where that goes. It doesn't just
mean reallocate display or targeting users. It should go to
like how do you functionally start to invest in your customer? Yes? Also,
is it fair to say that will be the end
of the CPM model? I mean, I mean that's really
up to you guys. Okay, Well, I think here's the thing, right, Well,

(01:10:23):
here's the thing. The ad like object on digital. The
banner AD came out of right remnant inventory. The battery
ad right basically came out of the transitionary moment, which
is from printed digital where where newspapers didn't want to

(01:10:44):
spend any energy on digital advertising because print was their
business and they put one person on it that designed
the page in an exact replica of the printed and
put the ads on the side and didn't stop it.
So Google came in and said, hey, we'll figure out
how you monetize that, and then all of a sudden
they own their business. I mean traditional like media companies

(01:11:06):
give that business away Goog Google didn't take it. They
didn't put any attention for time on that. And we're
in that moment right now. This is why, like when
people you go back to and I think maybe we
spend maybe part of session to episode two with Jared
dicker on this is the content evolution because I think
that for marketers, they looked at it is like another

(01:11:27):
place to do advertising rather than creating valuable, right, something
valuable And like, let's look at that fucking arc by
the way, you follow that, Excuse me, I get so excited,
But you look at that arc and then you can
see where Web three is going. Yeah, well it finally
is what. Content is not an afterthought or an add

(01:11:48):
on or an ancillery project. It is the path, Yes,
it is, yes, content and programming, it's programming and then
you want to talk about the the agency model. Now
is the time where agencies have the opportunity to go
and create. You have to shift. There are so many
freaking amazing storytellers and creatives and in innovators and under

(01:12:11):
they understand the fact that there are thousands of creatives
sitting in advertising agencies still making thirty second adds when
they could be creating these phenomenal experiences and value for
the consumer blows my mind. So when you're no longer
confined to a thirty second time frame orny nine bucks,

(01:12:33):
it changes the game. But before you go, what are
you doing yourself? The last by B why what is
Jared Dicker doing? What am I doing myself? D I? Y? Yes,
Oh my goodness. Oh it's Christmas time. I'm gonna be
putting together all the kids towards Jared Dicker. You're coming back.
If you're not following at Jared Dicker, be sure to

(01:12:56):
go hit the follow button. So much unfolded in the feed, Jared.
Always a pleasure when we can find you. We appreciate you.
Know how many texts have Jared? Where are you? Are
you there? Oh? Well, thank you Jared, and come back

(01:13:21):
from part with you, of course, so always a fascinating
conversation with Jared. We're fortunate enough to get our own
version of Jared Dicker consulting on the group text, but
appreciate Jared coming by. This is like conversation one of

(01:13:41):
a hundred and getting deeper into an understanding, uh, everything
that this new Web three space has to offer. And
I think what's really interesting, Alexas you don't have to
wait for your organization to get into Web three to
start to think about the application of principles for how
we market today. You shouldn't wait. I think that's the

(01:14:03):
big thing. Like, you shouldn't wait, and you should be
hiring people and talent and partners and talking to lots
of people about where you can kind of uniquely start
to experiment. I was talking to a really good friend
of ours the other day, Nick Dasarian at Target, and
we were talking about maybe now more than ever, brand

(01:14:23):
marketers and media folks who have been on the media
side really have the opportunity to think and act and
start to function in their organization more like product people
or product marketers. And why that's important is because understanding, again,
you always have to go back to understand that consumer

(01:14:46):
and what they're about, what they're doing, and what they're
interested in, and then how to bring them value. Plus,
the whole world basically is driven by media right now.
And I think Jared prompts us in this the media
model for how we buy, how we look at media,
where we buy media, who we're buying it from, how

(01:15:07):
we're actually transacting on that media has got to change.
So there's huge change. I don't know how that's going
to happen, but you know one thing that I would
love to do is invite the Atlantia community to come
and start to think about that with us. So Atlantia,
we've got a lot of things to solve out there
and we love to hear from you. How are you

(01:15:28):
thinking about Web three, what are you doing, what are
your questions, who are you talking to and how do
we start to think about media buying, selling and strategy
for Web three. We want to hear from you, So
hit us up at Landia podcast on Twitter. We want
to hear from you. So that is it. At Landia

(01:15:50):
coming to a close. Thank you so much for listening
to all of our great conversations this year. Big thank
you to all of our guests for stopping guy and
I heart for supporting us, Alexa Ryan, our producer, and
I wishing you all the best. In two we'll be
back with all new episodes, and be sure to follow
us on Twitter at Atlantia Podcast to hear what's coming next.

(01:16:12):
H