June 27, 2018 • 25 mins
Bridget and Yves explore what it means to be an activist and organizer with one of the Black Lives Matter founders, Patrisse Khan-Cullors.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On June, Dylan Ruth walked into a Charleston, South Carolina
church and shot and killed nine black churchgoers. This racist
terror attack was meant to spark fear in the hearts
of black folks, to say you weren't safe even in
your houses of worship. Ten days later, Bree Knewsom scaled
(00:24):
the thirty foot flagpole at the South Carolina Statehouse and
unhooked the Confederate flag in that moment, high above the
police presence growing below her. Bree says she wasn't even
afraid if she was about to be arrested. She didn't care.
It was just like, yes, taking me to jail. But
(00:46):
what people didn't see is the planning behind that act.
How many people were on the scene during the I
was not nine of us. Okay, so there's a whole
group of you that did this together. Oh yeah, it
was coordinated. Brees says the act was actually the result
of the coordinated efforts of a team of organizers. A
team on the ground in South Carolina laid the groundwork
(01:07):
in the week's brier. They knew whoever was chosen to
climb the flagpole and whoever was chosen to stand guard
were risking arrest. That iconic viral image of Brion Latin.
The flag only tells a snippet of a story and
the spark that led us to that moment. I'm brigittad.
You're listening to Afropunk Solution Sessions. Afropunk is a safe place,
(01:30):
a blank space to freak out in, to construct a
new reality, to live our lives as we see fit
while making sense of the world around us. Here at
afro Punk, we have the conversations that matter to us,
conversations that lead to solutions. In this episode, we're exploring
the spark that drives activism and social movements. Activism is
(01:50):
like an iceberg. Sometimes the end result, that galvanizing moment
that makes headlines is only the tip you can see
peeking out of the ocean. It's the result of a
churning as sum play line of strategists, organizers and volunteers,
all ignited by our respective spark from within, coming together
to do the organizing work towards a shared goal good.
(02:16):
Our co host Eves and I went to the Civil
Rights Center in Atlanta, a living archive of global human
and civil rights, where that reality of activism is on
full display. We often think of activists as these larger
than live figures who put their lives on the line
for huge causes, and they do, but we have to
remember that even the smallest contributions help in sight change well,
(02:39):
not only that they're necessary. There was a room full
of doctor King memorabilia, his hamwritten speeches, letters to him,
the briefcase he carried the day he was assassinated, and
there was this letter of supplies. This list is so
powerful because you sort of realize the logistics and the
(02:59):
real that he have this kind of work that you know,
it seems very mythical and mystical sometimes, but then you know,
people need baby food, people need vinegar, people need you know,
salt and baking ZDA. And this list of the things
people need it is compelling, a good reminder that these
are real human people doing actual work and yeah, you
(03:20):
know fairy tales, Yeah I think so too, And just
seeing it in a hard copy like this, it's just
it's so powerful. It makes it that much more tangible
to see how much specificity and care was put into
it too, taking it in you know, all at once,
I guess, just knowing that he was holding up in
(03:42):
and running on this paper. To see it right in
front of me, um just makes it that much more real.
And I really this isn't that like profound or anything,
but I'm really really into how intense these scratch marks are.
Like that wasn't the right word, and it wasn't the
right word at all. It's not it's not just one
line through it. It's like he's really deliberate with what
(04:04):
he's saying. You know, I'm all about reminders that our
civil rights leaders were human and that they dance and
playpool and drink and partied and wrote and all the
things that we do they do and they were complex people.
I think reminders that remind us of King's humanity are
visit important. Afro Punk is a hub of expressions of
(04:27):
black activism and culture. People come to see bands, but
it's not just about the performances. It's about every aspect
of our identities, our clothes, our hair, our art to
express the spirit of resistance and the ways that black
joy can be radical. Our correspondent Corey Oliver asked attendees
about how activism shows up in their lives at afro
Punk Atlanta. Do you consider yourself an activists? Uh? Do
(04:49):
you how how important do you think activism is to
like young black people? All, Well, I feel there's a
lot of different levels of activism, and so I'm happy
for the people who are political. I'm happy for the
people are like, you know, into the legislative process. I'm
happy for the marchers. I'm more aggressive. It's so like
I always say, just call me when we started shooting,
(05:13):
I'll be there. I'll show up for that. Let's take
a quick break. So there's this concept called the story
of self, and it was one of the first things
I ever learned when I was just sort of getting
started as an activist and an organizer. And basically this
concept is all about getting really really clear about why
it is that you're interested in social change. So maybe
it's something that happened to you. Maybe it's something that
(05:35):
you know it was part of your upbringing, or something
that you witness as a child, or that felt really unfair,
it made you feel really angry. So what was that
thing that spark that really made you want to act?
I'm wondering, bridget Um, what was that moment for you?
Do you have a story of self? Uh, you're giving
me flashbacks. It was one set of training a story
of self training, and I had thought about what my
(05:58):
story of self was going to be, and when it
came time to share, I was like, I guess I
don't have one, and my trainer was very disappointed. I've
had a couple over the years. The one that I
come back to again is tough because I've heard so
many good stories of self over the years doing social
change work, and oftentimes they are stories that make the
person telling them sound very valiant or very you know, empathetic,
(06:20):
or it presents a very good version of who they are.
And my story of self it's a time or I
did not feel like I lived my values. So I
went to college in the South. I went to East
Carolina University, and it's a college that is if you
know North Carolina, it's kind of exactly what you're thinking,
you know, lots of guys and cargo shorts and pastel
(06:41):
colored you. So I'm like you, you're thinking that fondly
right now. It was a tough four years. I was
I had to be I had to be drunk the
entire time, clearly, UM to deal with it. And I'll
never forget um. You know how when you go to
college You're sitting in the common room of the dorms
watching TV. And this is when her Kane Katrina just happened.
(07:02):
We were all sitting in the common room of the
dorm watching this unfold on TV. And it was families,
it was women, it was kids, was people losing everything,
it was people dying. It was this the kind of
thing that I probably never thought I would see happening
in this country. I mean, I was very young. It
was like I was watching a horror movie, you know,
That's how I felt. I felt like I was watching
(07:23):
something fictional. I thought, this, this can't be happening. This
can't be happening. And there was this one image of
a of a mother clinging to her baby, and the
look on her face is just pure agony. You can
feel it in that image. And I was thinking, you know, fun, like,
this is our country, this is a situation. And I
was so horrified. And I was listening to these guys
(07:45):
talk in the common room and one of them said
to the other, they're just niggers. And he said it
like it was the most casual thing in the world,
as if, of course, this has to be exactly exactly
and you know, it was just a comment that he made,
But in that moment, it was clear to me that
he was sort of pathologizing these people in a kind
(08:07):
of way, that of course this is happening to them,
like it was no big deal, and that they kind
of way brought it on themselves. And you know, adult
me looks back on that moment and thinks, I wish
I would have done this. I wish I would have
stormed over there, slapped that fucking baseball hat off of
his head and said something. But I didn't say anything.
(08:28):
I didn't say anything. I just sort of gasped and
I said nothing. And it was a moment where I
was presented with a choice and I chose wrong. And
I think about that moment quite a bit. I think
about why I didn't say anything, why I didn't do anything,
why I chose not to live my values, And I
think it was a lot of things. I think it's
(08:48):
being young. I think it's being you know, in a
new place and sort of wanting to fit in and
not wanting to be the person who you know is
always calling out racism um. And I sort of made
a silent pack with myself that I would never not
live my values again, and that even if it meant
(09:09):
I was going to always be that weird black girl
who had something to say, and I was never popular
and no one ever want to go out with me,
and all of those things, I didn't care that I
was never going to feel like I felt in college, frozen,
feeling guilt and shame and fear and all of these horrible, horrible,
horrible feelings all linked up inside of me in the
(09:31):
pit of my stomach. I was never going to feel
that way again. And when I'm doing social change work,
that's what I think. I think, if I get that
feeling like I have to say something, I say it,
and I think back to the version of me who
couldn't say it, and I say it for her. You know,
listening to a lot of stories of self, something that
comes out is so many of us have dealt with really,
(09:51):
really big, intense stuff in our lives. I've heard people
share their story of self and it's about being undocumented
and what that's like. I've heard people tell their story
of self and it's about being abused and all of
this really really traumatic, heavy stuff, and that's very real.
But I also think that it's important to remember that
the thing that drives you to be interested in social
change can be something commonplace and every day. It can
(10:15):
be something very big and very real and very scary
and very traumatic, but it can also be that small
thing too. It's good to know that you didn't blame
yourself afterwards, and you use that kernel, and you use
that moment and turnedness is something that was really inspiring
and encouraging and positive, and you used it to go
in a good direction. And I think it's great to
(10:36):
hear you say that's because a lot of people may
look back and say, like, Ship, I funked up, like
I wasn't good enough, I didn't do the right thing.
But it's like we've been dealing with this for centuries.
We have centuries of this this burden laying on our
backs of having to be the person with more integrity,
the person who always does the right thing, the person
who always called somebody out. But it's not our fucking job,
you know, it's not our job. So I'm really glad
(10:57):
to hear that's what your story of self was, because
it's a good reminder that that you don't necessarily have
to be this superhero. You don't have to wear a cape,
when you find your voice when you're marginalized. Sometimes the
thing that draws you to activism is as simple as
just trying to exist. I never would have thought that,
you know, I'd be on the front lines of the
(11:19):
new flax deborations, that you might know Patrice Kan Colors
from her work with Black Lives Matter. My name is
the Truth, can Colors. I am one of the co
founders a Black Lives Matter and founder of a local
organization of upsends with called Dignity and Felling Out. I
(11:41):
grew up in a small suburb, working class suburb outside
of the inner city Van I, California. And unless you
grew up the month Denders, you probably don't know where
that place is. But it was um in the eighties
and nineties and early two thousands, a neighborhood that was
mostly people of color, mostly working class um UH, mostly
(12:07):
Mexican and Mexican immigrants, and we were one of two
black families on the block, and the neighborhood super over police.
Lots of helicopter policing for this small town, this small
submers lots of security just policing UM and also a
lot of folks being arrested and and homes being raided,
(12:29):
and so this was very my early childhood memories of
my neighborhood. It was against that backdrop of surveillance and
over policing that young Patrise experienced the moment that made
her perfect down. I was eighteen years old, I think
that's just graduated from high school. I was in the
park with my girlfriend at the time. We were totally
(12:51):
kissing and making out, and then this guy ran upon us,
is over gentlemen and curse about you know, pulls. We
were freaks and and it was totally humiliating, and I
just remember feeling terrible, but really quickly I was like,
we have to protest it, and I called on my friends.
(13:13):
You know, was pre social media, so so I made
phone calls and I think there was six people showed
up to the house on a Sudday and we um
they signed and they signs, and we walked down to
that park at that same part and totally like held
a little protest, and it was well small, and I
(13:36):
didn't necesarily have a target. There was something about showing
up for myself and I'm not allowing that demand to
have the last word about what I do with my body.
And my girlfriends. What was that moment about for you?
It definitely was about reclaiming of a public space, but
it was also reclaiming of my dignity. I was humiliated
(13:59):
by him. I was already young and really battling my
own internalized homophobia, and I needed to kind of feel
like I wasn't doing something bad or wrong. And part
of that was showing up again and being like, this
is my I deserve to be here too, I matter too.
And I think that's where the courage, you know, my
(14:21):
courage came from. It's like, no, I did nothing wrong.
I'm in love with this person. I get to show
the world and if I want to, and I get
to be in this part that I've been going to
since I was a child. Following in the tradition of
famed civil rights activist Ella Baker, who championed a decentralized
leadership style, Patrice's work is very much rooted in her
(14:42):
intersecting identities and building movements that don't need to rely
on one leader to be powerful, but rather they reflect
the power of the collective coming together to push for
a shared vision. How do you feel like your identity
as a black queer woman has gone on to impact
the work that you do. Obviously it was very central.
How does it show up now? I think my queerness,
(15:04):
my blackness, my woman miss, the fact that I was
raised for all of that contribute to how I build
this movement. Um, I think there's this movement wouldn't be
the way it is right now that wasn't for this
sort of leadership and vision of black queer women many
of us raised for. I think it's our labor and
(15:24):
work that has created a movement that is the centralized
as economents. That is, you know, doing the everyday work
of building, um what el Baker was building group centers,
you know, readership, building a movement that didn't need a
charismatic into the jeweling there. Like a lot of people
who do movement work, Patrice doesn't even necessarily see yourself
(15:46):
as an activist. If an activist is the face of
a campaign or movement, an organizer is the one doing
the work behind the scenes. They're making sure folks are trained,
They're bringing others into the movement, and while it can
be a lot less exciting, it's the lifeblood of social shape.
That was definitely an activist, but very quickly I turned
into an organizer. And this actually comes from one of
my mentors, Eric Man, who I joined this organization when
(16:10):
I was sevyteen years old, and the first thing he
said is you're an organizer and your job is to
bring more people into the movement. An activist signs the petition,
they show up to the march, but an organizer is
organizing that march. The organizers the one who figured out
the petition and why we do the position, and an
organizer is building the power of those most directly impacted,
(16:34):
most marginalized by this system. Social change is key to
who Patrice is, but she also sees the ways that
black women are burdened by being the ones that have
to do the work of teaching others while not getting
a lot of support in return. It's a role that
can sometimes be a bit thankless. I think what this
challenges to people is to actually not forced black women
to have to carry everything the emotional labor. Be the
(16:57):
ones who are the campaign strategists, Be the ones who
are raising the children, Be the ones who are fighting
for their children after they've been killed or murdered or incorporated. Right,
what end up happening is black women end up bearing
the burden of the world. And so that's the challenge
for us. I don't think black woman should stop teaching people.
We just shouldn't have to be the one holding everything,
(17:19):
and folks should show up and be present. And part
of that showing up and being present is needing a
culture shift. We did change the culture in which black
women become the end all, be all for everything. And
this burden on black women isn't just in the US,
it's global. That's Mariel Franco and you're listening to the
(17:43):
last public speech she ever delivered. She spent years advocating
against state violence in Brazil. While sitting in her car
following this speech about police killings, she was shot and killed.
Her death sparked waves of protests in Brazil, and her
murderers were not caught. Many agree that Mariel was assassinated
in Marielia Alia, secuted by the states and police forces
(18:04):
were vary to make her way into politics and vary
to speak out there. That they consign of Marielli by
her voice in her fine who were only multiplied. You're
gonna make sure it does. Brazil has a powerful movement
um specifically against the police and being led by black people.
(18:24):
The unfortunate death of Mariem who was a city council
member in Brazil, black woman, out and queer and was
fascinated by the police about the government. But their movement
is sovigorating all throughoutlantin America and Buddhas and the movement
with black books and indigenous people for patrice, activism and
(18:45):
shared struggle or what unite black folks no matter where
they live. Yeah, black people around the world, I mean
are just doing some incredible, credible works, and even in
America with the presidential administration that's hell bent on criminalizing,
surveilling under my and destabilizing Black communities here and abroad.
It's these shared goals and struggles that keep a trice going.
(19:06):
I think there are some clear goals, especially under this
current administration, which are how do we make sure that
we are building the power of Black communities, most marginalized communities.
And I want to make sure that we're changing the
material conditions for our communities. You know, That's what I
think about every single day when I wake up. Am
I changing the material conditions for Black people? Am I
(19:28):
making more space and room so that we could be
free and we could be freer. And I think that's
the work to them, and that's the work for all
of us to be doing. Um, whether you're black, white,
not the next a Asian indigenous, we should be thinking
about how we change the material conditions for those most marginalized.
We'll hear more solution sessions after this quick break. Algiers
(20:01):
is a band from Atlanta. Like Patrise, they're interested in
building bridges, putting global movements and struggles in conversation with
each other. They do it through music, like when they
perform songs about resistance at Afropunk Atlanta. The band says
that nam al Jeers is about colonialism, specifically the resistance
to white colonialism that led to the Algerian Revolution. The
Black Panthers were inspired by the Algerian Revolution. People in
(20:24):
Palestine or inspired by the Algerian Revolution. Radicals in the
US were inspired by the Algerian Revolution. For Algiers, this
represents a kind of intersectional unity, the connection of global struggles,
a meeting of the minds across oceans and ideologies. There's
unity in difference, but there's also unity and antagonism against
something that brings politics to our door. They point out
(20:45):
whether it's rising up against Trump and creeping fascism in
the United States or against global capitalism. Algeria represents meeting
oppression with unity and antagonism. This unity is something that Frank,
the band's vocalist, tries to represent through music and callbacks
to cultural touchstones. You know, those are things that we
espouse as a band and as individuals, and that's something
(21:08):
that I think is too greater or less extent was
reflected by the afropunk postegal music exposed to meats through politics.
So punk rock and the reason why afropunk was important
for me is because I was in up punk rock
and I was in a hardcore band and all that
kind of stuff, and it was exclusionary. It was hye,
m mail and macho, and it was very much uh herod,
heteronormative and everything That's Ryan. If you can't tell Ryan
(21:30):
is white, he plays bass in Lgiars. Ryan was raised
in Atlanta with Frank, where they grew up playing music. Music,
Ryan says, is what helped to become politically and socially aware.
When afropunk came along, it really kind of exposed a
lot of things. I remember the documentary in two thousand
seven eight, and it was really exposed in quite a
lot about the scene itself, and I thought this is
important because this this taught me about politics, has taught
(21:52):
me about racism, has taught me about sexism and homophobia
and everything else that was involved, the same way that
Patrice's activism was a rooted in claiming space for herself,
Ryan says music is would helped him want to claim
space and incite important conversations like this is this is
also a politics on a mascot that's talking about mass movement,
is talking about claiming your own space. I remember in
(22:14):
that video, the Fight the Power video, you know, public
gonna be Fight the Power video. It's incredible. It's like
this is claiming a space. It's like we own the
street and we're actually a descendants of the Black Power movement.
And this is music as well. This is what music is.
Music actually represents society and it's something that can for
once of a better word of power. Listen, if you're
(22:36):
missing y'all swinging while I'm swinging, Hey, no more about
knowing while the black bands swinging in the river ro
rowing what we want, y'all us what we need? I
don't let's freed them up there. We got to fight
the powers that be the power. What advice would you
(23:08):
get for someone out there who's listening, who wants to
follow in your footsteps and do the kind of work
that you do. Um a few things. One, what's your lane?
What are you look excited about? Are you excited about
the arts? Are you excited about you know, the operation
side of things? Are you excited about all the things
that are related to ending police violence? Just think about
what's your lane? What's your lane in this? And then
(23:29):
go look for an organization to be a part of.
I don't think we need to build a bunch of organizations.
I think doing like cool projects and debating them and
said organizations aren't necessary. What do you feel like no
organization is doing what you want to be doing or
what you think is a great need. Then change it
and start your own organizations. Who am I? And what
(23:59):
am I called to you? These were the questions between
left us with If you want to make social change,
that first step isn't necessarily to show up at a
value or event. It's to look within for the answers
to these questions. Who are you? What do you stand for?
Who is your community. What do you want to build together?
What makes you fucking angry? How can you harness that
(24:19):
anger for action instead of apathy. We can all be
activists because we all have that spark inside of us
telling us to fight back. We just have to find it.
What's the solution, Bridget. Prioritize your well being. What's the solution? Bridget?
Don't be afraid to start your own organization. What's the solution? Bridget?
Take action in a way that moves you. What's the solution? Bridget?
(24:42):
Find what ignites you. Afropunk Solution Sessions is a co
production between Afro Punk and How Stuff Works. Your hosts
are Bridget Todd and Eve's Jeffcote. Executive producers are Julie Douglas,
Jocelyn Cooper, and Kuan latif Hill. Dylan Fagan is supervising
(25:05):
producer and Kathleen Quillian is audio engineer. Many many thanks
to Casey Pegram and Annie Reese for their production and
editorial oversight, and many thanks to her on the ground
Atlanta Crue, Ben Boland, Corey Oliver, and Noel Brown. The
Underside of Power is performed by Al Jeers. Connect with
us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at afropunk and thanks
(25:26):
to the Center for Civil and Human Rights in Atlanta, Georgia.
On June, Dylan Ruth walked into a Charleston, South Carolina
church and shot and killed nine black churchgoers. This racist
terror attack was meant to spark fear in the hearts
of black folks, to say you weren't safe even in
your houses of worship. Ten days later, Bree Knewsom scaled
(00:24):
the thirty foot flagpole at the South Carolina Statehouse and
unhooked the Confederate flag in that moment, high above the
police presence growing below her. Bree says she wasn't even
afraid if she was about to be arrested. She didn't care.
It was just like, yes, taking me to jail. But
(00:46):
what people didn't see is the planning behind that act.
How many people were on the scene during the I
was not nine of us. Okay, so there's a whole
group of you that did this together. Oh yeah, it
was coordinated. Brees says the act was actually the result
of the coordinated efforts of a team of organizers. A
team on the ground in South Carolina laid the groundwork
(01:07):
in the week's brier. They knew whoever was chosen to
climb the flagpole and whoever was chosen to stand guard
were risking arrest. That iconic viral image of Brion Latin.
The flag only tells a snippet of a story and
the spark that led us to that moment. I'm brigittad.
You're listening to Afropunk Solution Sessions. Afropunk is a safe place,
(01:30):
a blank space to freak out in, to construct a
new reality, to live our lives as we see fit
while making sense of the world around us. Here at
afro Punk, we have the conversations that matter to us,
conversations that lead to solutions. In this episode, we're exploring
the spark that drives activism and social movements. Activism is
(01:50):
like an iceberg. Sometimes the end result, that galvanizing moment
that makes headlines is only the tip you can see
peeking out of the ocean. It's the result of a
churning as sum play line of strategists, organizers and volunteers,
all ignited by our respective spark from within, coming together
to do the organizing work towards a shared goal good.
(02:16):
Our co host Eves and I went to the Civil
Rights Center in Atlanta, a living archive of global human
and civil rights, where that reality of activism is on
full display. We often think of activists as these larger
than live figures who put their lives on the line
for huge causes, and they do, but we have to
remember that even the smallest contributions help in sight change well,
(02:39):
not only that they're necessary. There was a room full
of doctor King memorabilia, his hamwritten speeches, letters to him,
the briefcase he carried the day he was assassinated, and
there was this letter of supplies. This list is so
powerful because you sort of realize the logistics and the
(02:59):
real that he have this kind of work that you know,
it seems very mythical and mystical sometimes, but then you know,
people need baby food, people need vinegar, people need you know,
salt and baking ZDA. And this list of the things
people need it is compelling, a good reminder that these
are real human people doing actual work and yeah, you
(03:20):
know fairy tales, Yeah I think so too, And just
seeing it in a hard copy like this, it's just
it's so powerful. It makes it that much more tangible
to see how much specificity and care was put into
it too, taking it in you know, all at once,
I guess, just knowing that he was holding up in
(03:42):
and running on this paper. To see it right in
front of me, um just makes it that much more real.
And I really this isn't that like profound or anything,
but I'm really really into how intense these scratch marks are.
Like that wasn't the right word, and it wasn't the
right word at all. It's not it's not just one
line through it. It's like he's really deliberate with what
(04:04):
he's saying. You know, I'm all about reminders that our
civil rights leaders were human and that they dance and
playpool and drink and partied and wrote and all the
things that we do they do and they were complex people.
I think reminders that remind us of King's humanity are
visit important. Afro Punk is a hub of expressions of
(04:27):
black activism and culture. People come to see bands, but
it's not just about the performances. It's about every aspect
of our identities, our clothes, our hair, our art to
express the spirit of resistance and the ways that black
joy can be radical. Our correspondent Corey Oliver asked attendees
about how activism shows up in their lives at afro
Punk Atlanta. Do you consider yourself an activists? Uh? Do
(04:49):
you how how important do you think activism is to
like young black people? All, Well, I feel there's a
lot of different levels of activism, and so I'm happy
for the people who are political. I'm happy for the
people are like, you know, into the legislative process. I'm
happy for the marchers. I'm more aggressive. It's so like
I always say, just call me when we started shooting,
(05:13):
I'll be there. I'll show up for that. Let's take
a quick break. So there's this concept called the story
of self, and it was one of the first things
I ever learned when I was just sort of getting
started as an activist and an organizer. And basically this
concept is all about getting really really clear about why
it is that you're interested in social change. So maybe
it's something that happened to you. Maybe it's something that
(05:35):
you know it was part of your upbringing, or something
that you witness as a child, or that felt really unfair,
it made you feel really angry. So what was that
thing that spark that really made you want to act?
I'm wondering, bridget Um, what was that moment for you?
Do you have a story of self? Uh, you're giving
me flashbacks. It was one set of training a story
of self training, and I had thought about what my
(05:58):
story of self was going to be, and when it
came time to share, I was like, I guess I
don't have one, and my trainer was very disappointed. I've
had a couple over the years. The one that I
come back to again is tough because I've heard so
many good stories of self over the years doing social
change work, and oftentimes they are stories that make the
person telling them sound very valiant or very you know, empathetic,
(06:20):
or it presents a very good version of who they are.
And my story of self it's a time or I
did not feel like I lived my values. So I
went to college in the South. I went to East
Carolina University, and it's a college that is if you
know North Carolina, it's kind of exactly what you're thinking,
you know, lots of guys and cargo shorts and pastel
(06:41):
colored you. So I'm like you, you're thinking that fondly
right now. It was a tough four years. I was
I had to be I had to be drunk the
entire time, clearly, UM to deal with it. And I'll
never forget um. You know how when you go to
college You're sitting in the common room of the dorms
watching TV. And this is when her Kane Katrina just happened.
(07:02):
We were all sitting in the common room of the
dorm watching this unfold on TV. And it was families,
it was women, it was kids, was people losing everything,
it was people dying. It was this the kind of
thing that I probably never thought I would see happening
in this country. I mean, I was very young. It
was like I was watching a horror movie, you know,
That's how I felt. I felt like I was watching
(07:23):
something fictional. I thought, this, this can't be happening. This
can't be happening. And there was this one image of
a of a mother clinging to her baby, and the
look on her face is just pure agony. You can
feel it in that image. And I was thinking, you know, fun, like,
this is our country, this is a situation. And I
was so horrified. And I was listening to these guys
(07:45):
talk in the common room and one of them said
to the other, they're just niggers. And he said it
like it was the most casual thing in the world,
as if, of course, this has to be exactly exactly
and you know, it was just a comment that he made,
But in that moment, it was clear to me that
he was sort of pathologizing these people in a kind
(08:07):
of way, that of course this is happening to them,
like it was no big deal, and that they kind
of way brought it on themselves. And you know, adult
me looks back on that moment and thinks, I wish
I would have done this. I wish I would have
stormed over there, slapped that fucking baseball hat off of
his head and said something. But I didn't say anything.
(08:28):
I didn't say anything. I just sort of gasped and
I said nothing. And it was a moment where I
was presented with a choice and I chose wrong. And
I think about that moment quite a bit. I think
about why I didn't say anything, why I didn't do anything,
why I chose not to live my values, And I
think it was a lot of things. I think it's
(08:48):
being young. I think it's being you know, in a
new place and sort of wanting to fit in and
not wanting to be the person who you know is
always calling out racism um. And I sort of made
a silent pack with myself that I would never not
live my values again, and that even if it meant
(09:09):
I was going to always be that weird black girl
who had something to say, and I was never popular
and no one ever want to go out with me,
and all of those things, I didn't care that I
was never going to feel like I felt in college, frozen,
feeling guilt and shame and fear and all of these horrible, horrible,
horrible feelings all linked up inside of me in the
(09:31):
pit of my stomach. I was never going to feel
that way again. And when I'm doing social change work,
that's what I think. I think, if I get that
feeling like I have to say something, I say it,
and I think back to the version of me who
couldn't say it, and I say it for her. You know,
listening to a lot of stories of self, something that
comes out is so many of us have dealt with really,
(09:51):
really big, intense stuff in our lives. I've heard people
share their story of self and it's about being undocumented
and what that's like. I've heard people tell their story
of self and it's about being abused and all of
this really really traumatic, heavy stuff, and that's very real.
But I also think that it's important to remember that
the thing that drives you to be interested in social
change can be something commonplace and every day. It can
(10:15):
be something very big and very real and very scary
and very traumatic, but it can also be that small
thing too. It's good to know that you didn't blame
yourself afterwards, and you use that kernel, and you use
that moment and turnedness is something that was really inspiring
and encouraging and positive, and you used it to go
in a good direction. And I think it's great to
(10:36):
hear you say that's because a lot of people may
look back and say, like, Ship, I funked up, like
I wasn't good enough, I didn't do the right thing.
But it's like we've been dealing with this for centuries.
We have centuries of this this burden laying on our
backs of having to be the person with more integrity,
the person who always does the right thing, the person
who always called somebody out. But it's not our fucking job,
you know, it's not our job. So I'm really glad
(10:57):
to hear that's what your story of self was, because
it's a good reminder that that you don't necessarily have
to be this superhero. You don't have to wear a cape,
when you find your voice when you're marginalized. Sometimes the
thing that draws you to activism is as simple as
just trying to exist. I never would have thought that,
you know, I'd be on the front lines of the
(11:19):
new flax deborations, that you might know Patrice Kan Colors
from her work with Black Lives Matter. My name is
the Truth, can Colors. I am one of the co
founders a Black Lives Matter and founder of a local
organization of upsends with called Dignity and Felling Out. I
(11:41):
grew up in a small suburb, working class suburb outside
of the inner city Van I, California. And unless you
grew up the month Denders, you probably don't know where
that place is. But it was um in the eighties
and nineties and early two thousands, a neighborhood that was
mostly people of color, mostly working class um UH, mostly
(12:07):
Mexican and Mexican immigrants, and we were one of two
black families on the block, and the neighborhood super over police.
Lots of helicopter policing for this small town, this small
submers lots of security just policing UM and also a
lot of folks being arrested and and homes being raided,
(12:29):
and so this was very my early childhood memories of
my neighborhood. It was against that backdrop of surveillance and
over policing that young Patrise experienced the moment that made
her perfect down. I was eighteen years old, I think
that's just graduated from high school. I was in the
park with my girlfriend at the time. We were totally
(12:51):
kissing and making out, and then this guy ran upon us,
is over gentlemen and curse about you know, pulls. We
were freaks and and it was totally humiliating, and I
just remember feeling terrible, but really quickly I was like,
we have to protest it, and I called on my friends.
(13:13):
You know, was pre social media, so so I made
phone calls and I think there was six people showed
up to the house on a Sudday and we um
they signed and they signs, and we walked down to
that park at that same part and totally like held
a little protest, and it was well small, and I
(13:36):
didn't necesarily have a target. There was something about showing
up for myself and I'm not allowing that demand to
have the last word about what I do with my body.
And my girlfriends. What was that moment about for you?
It definitely was about reclaiming of a public space, but
it was also reclaiming of my dignity. I was humiliated
(13:59):
by him. I was already young and really battling my
own internalized homophobia, and I needed to kind of feel
like I wasn't doing something bad or wrong. And part
of that was showing up again and being like, this
is my I deserve to be here too, I matter too.
And I think that's where the courage, you know, my
(14:21):
courage came from. It's like, no, I did nothing wrong.
I'm in love with this person. I get to show
the world and if I want to, and I get
to be in this part that I've been going to
since I was a child. Following in the tradition of
famed civil rights activist Ella Baker, who championed a decentralized
leadership style, Patrice's work is very much rooted in her
(14:42):
intersecting identities and building movements that don't need to rely
on one leader to be powerful, but rather they reflect
the power of the collective coming together to push for
a shared vision. How do you feel like your identity
as a black queer woman has gone on to impact
the work that you do. Obviously it was very central.
How does it show up now? I think my queerness,
(15:04):
my blackness, my woman miss, the fact that I was
raised for all of that contribute to how I build
this movement. Um, I think there's this movement wouldn't be
the way it is right now that wasn't for this
sort of leadership and vision of black queer women many
of us raised for. I think it's our labor and
(15:24):
work that has created a movement that is the centralized
as economents. That is, you know, doing the everyday work
of building, um what el Baker was building group centers,
you know, readership, building a movement that didn't need a
charismatic into the jeweling there. Like a lot of people
who do movement work, Patrice doesn't even necessarily see yourself
(15:46):
as an activist. If an activist is the face of
a campaign or movement, an organizer is the one doing
the work behind the scenes. They're making sure folks are trained,
They're bringing others into the movement, and while it can
be a lot less exciting, it's the lifeblood of social shape.
That was definitely an activist, but very quickly I turned
into an organizer. And this actually comes from one of
my mentors, Eric Man, who I joined this organization when
(16:10):
I was sevyteen years old, and the first thing he
said is you're an organizer and your job is to
bring more people into the movement. An activist signs the petition,
they show up to the march, but an organizer is
organizing that march. The organizers the one who figured out
the petition and why we do the position, and an
organizer is building the power of those most directly impacted,
(16:34):
most marginalized by this system. Social change is key to
who Patrice is, but she also sees the ways that
black women are burdened by being the ones that have
to do the work of teaching others while not getting
a lot of support in return. It's a role that
can sometimes be a bit thankless. I think what this
challenges to people is to actually not forced black women
to have to carry everything the emotional labor. Be the
(16:57):
ones who are the campaign strategists, Be the ones who
are raising the children, Be the ones who are fighting
for their children after they've been killed or murdered or incorporated. Right,
what end up happening is black women end up bearing
the burden of the world. And so that's the challenge
for us. I don't think black woman should stop teaching people.
We just shouldn't have to be the one holding everything,
(17:19):
and folks should show up and be present. And part
of that showing up and being present is needing a
culture shift. We did change the culture in which black
women become the end all, be all for everything. And
this burden on black women isn't just in the US,
it's global. That's Mariel Franco and you're listening to the
(17:43):
last public speech she ever delivered. She spent years advocating
against state violence in Brazil. While sitting in her car
following this speech about police killings, she was shot and killed.
Her death sparked waves of protests in Brazil, and her
murderers were not caught. Many agree that Mariel was assassinated
in Marielia Alia, secuted by the states and police forces
(18:04):
were vary to make her way into politics and vary
to speak out there. That they consign of Marielli by
her voice in her fine who were only multiplied. You're
gonna make sure it does. Brazil has a powerful movement
um specifically against the police and being led by black people.
(18:24):
The unfortunate death of Mariem who was a city council
member in Brazil, black woman, out and queer and was
fascinated by the police about the government. But their movement
is sovigorating all throughoutlantin America and Buddhas and the movement
with black books and indigenous people for patrice, activism and
(18:45):
shared struggle or what unite black folks no matter where
they live. Yeah, black people around the world, I mean
are just doing some incredible, credible works, and even in
America with the presidential administration that's hell bent on criminalizing,
surveilling under my and destabilizing Black communities here and abroad.
It's these shared goals and struggles that keep a trice going.
(19:06):
I think there are some clear goals, especially under this
current administration, which are how do we make sure that
we are building the power of Black communities, most marginalized communities.
And I want to make sure that we're changing the
material conditions for our communities. You know, That's what I
think about every single day when I wake up. Am
I changing the material conditions for Black people? Am I
(19:28):
making more space and room so that we could be
free and we could be freer. And I think that's
the work to them, and that's the work for all
of us to be doing. Um, whether you're black, white,
not the next a Asian indigenous, we should be thinking
about how we change the material conditions for those most marginalized.
We'll hear more solution sessions after this quick break. Algiers
(20:01):
is a band from Atlanta. Like Patrise, they're interested in
building bridges, putting global movements and struggles in conversation with
each other. They do it through music, like when they
perform songs about resistance at Afropunk Atlanta. The band says
that nam al Jeers is about colonialism, specifically the resistance
to white colonialism that led to the Algerian Revolution. The
Black Panthers were inspired by the Algerian Revolution. People in
(20:24):
Palestine or inspired by the Algerian Revolution. Radicals in the
US were inspired by the Algerian Revolution. For Algiers, this
represents a kind of intersectional unity, the connection of global struggles,
a meeting of the minds across oceans and ideologies. There's
unity in difference, but there's also unity and antagonism against
something that brings politics to our door. They point out
(20:45):
whether it's rising up against Trump and creeping fascism in
the United States or against global capitalism. Algeria represents meeting
oppression with unity and antagonism. This unity is something that Frank,
the band's vocalist, tries to represent through music and callbacks
to cultural touchstones. You know, those are things that we
espouse as a band and as individuals, and that's something
(21:08):
that I think is too greater or less extent was
reflected by the afropunk postegal music exposed to meats through politics.
So punk rock and the reason why afropunk was important
for me is because I was in up punk rock
and I was in a hardcore band and all that
kind of stuff, and it was exclusionary. It was hye,
m mail and macho, and it was very much uh herod,
heteronormative and everything That's Ryan. If you can't tell Ryan
(21:30):
is white, he plays bass in Lgiars. Ryan was raised
in Atlanta with Frank, where they grew up playing music. Music,
Ryan says, is what helped to become politically and socially aware.
When afropunk came along, it really kind of exposed a
lot of things. I remember the documentary in two thousand
seven eight, and it was really exposed in quite a
lot about the scene itself, and I thought this is
important because this this taught me about politics, has taught
(21:52):
me about racism, has taught me about sexism and homophobia
and everything else that was involved, the same way that
Patrice's activism was a rooted in claiming space for herself,
Ryan says music is would helped him want to claim
space and incite important conversations like this is this is
also a politics on a mascot that's talking about mass movement,
is talking about claiming your own space. I remember in
(22:14):
that video, the Fight the Power video, you know, public
gonna be Fight the Power video. It's incredible. It's like
this is claiming a space. It's like we own the
street and we're actually a descendants of the Black Power movement.
And this is music as well. This is what music is.
Music actually represents society and it's something that can for
once of a better word of power. Listen, if you're
(22:36):
missing y'all swinging while I'm swinging, Hey, no more about
knowing while the black bands swinging in the river ro
rowing what we want, y'all us what we need? I
don't let's freed them up there. We got to fight
the powers that be the power. What advice would you
(23:08):
get for someone out there who's listening, who wants to
follow in your footsteps and do the kind of work
that you do. Um a few things. One, what's your lane?
What are you look excited about? Are you excited about
the arts? Are you excited about you know, the operation
side of things? Are you excited about all the things
that are related to ending police violence? Just think about
what's your lane? What's your lane in this? And then
(23:29):
go look for an organization to be a part of.
I don't think we need to build a bunch of organizations.
I think doing like cool projects and debating them and
said organizations aren't necessary. What do you feel like no
organization is doing what you want to be doing or
what you think is a great need. Then change it
and start your own organizations. Who am I? And what
(23:59):
am I called to you? These were the questions between
left us with If you want to make social change,
that first step isn't necessarily to show up at a
value or event. It's to look within for the answers
to these questions. Who are you? What do you stand for?
Who is your community. What do you want to build together?
What makes you fucking angry? How can you harness that
(24:19):
anger for action instead of apathy. We can all be
activists because we all have that spark inside of us
telling us to fight back. We just have to find it.
What's the solution, Bridget. Prioritize your well being. What's the solution? Bridget?
Don't be afraid to start your own organization. What's the solution? Bridget?
Take action in a way that moves you. What's the solution? Bridget?
(24:42):
Find what ignites you. Afropunk Solution Sessions is a co
production between Afro Punk and How Stuff Works. Your hosts
are Bridget Todd and Eve's Jeffcote. Executive producers are Julie Douglas,
Jocelyn Cooper, and Kuan latif Hill. Dylan Fagan is supervising
(25:05):
producer and Kathleen Quillian is audio engineer. Many many thanks
to Casey Pegram and Annie Reese for their production and
editorial oversight, and many thanks to her on the ground
Atlanta Crue, Ben Boland, Corey Oliver, and Noel Brown. The
Underside of Power is performed by Al Jeers. Connect with
us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at afropunk and thanks
(25:26):
to the Center for Civil and Human Rights in Atlanta, Georgia.
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