Tim Hardaway Sr. Weighs In On State Of Miami Heat, Chicago Runs w/ MJ & LeBron, Signature Crossover

'The Crossover King' has entered the chat. On this weeks episode of ALL THE SMOKE, Matt and Stak are joined by 2022 Hall of Fame inductee, Tim Hardaway Sr. to talk all things hoops. Hardaway weighs in on the current state of the Miami Heat and looks back on his time with the franchise. Plus, he discusses Tim Hardaway Jr. playing in the NBA Finals and being so close to winning a title with the Mavericks this year. He also shares stories from winning a gold medal at the 2000 olympics and talks about the creation of his signature crossover, 'The Utep Two-Step'.

Hardaway reflects on Chicago summer runs with LeBron & MJ and the Chicago basketball scene. Additionally, he talks about the creation and impact of 'Run TMC', and the 1997 brawl between the Knicks & Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You can't be from Texas. And I know about Tim
Hardaway man the Texas two step. He was big growing
up for me, you know, to see the cross over,
to see the player.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
He grew up to be.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
The shoes and everything coming out of Texas was me
shoe mean shoe game. If you didn't know about the
shoes and you didn't go wearing Pro wings or something,
but I was wearing Pro Wings. Yeah I did too,
but that's before Tim Hardaway. When Tim Hardaway came out,
we could buy shoot, we had we had a.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Live not over here yet.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh, I probably know what I used to do, Jack,
No bullshit is I used.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
To get one good pair of shoes when I started
getting air Maxes, maybe like ninety to one hundred and ten,
and every two months I popped the aar sole take
them hose back.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
So I had probably four pairs during your school year.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
So you were super intelligent. I had to I played
warm to warm to the block.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I did everyone everywhere one pair of shoes, and today
was I had one pair for like four years.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Du just didn't discuss it now, but I think it
was obviously dope. I mean, we got, you know, be
third to run TMC. Yes, you know what I mean,
all we need is money. Quit dodgy, But I actually
motherly hasn't been dodged. I've seen Molley when I was
working with the Kings and he was where Golden State
because we in the Bay, we had the same work area.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
So he definitely said he wants to come on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
So we definitely got to get Chris Mullen, Yes, sir,
but to have Tim Hardaway, you know what he meant
in college with the what he meant with the crossover
run TMC.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
You know him talking about his son.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
You know, we're both dads with you know, kids at
hoop and what it was like having to watch his
son sit on the bench during the finals and getting
a fresh start to Detroit now.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
So really excited about him.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
I wish we had more time with him, but almost
felt like we almost had to rush him a little
bit because.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Sir Oscar was sitting on.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
There was a couple of questions I wanted to ask Tim,
like who were his toughest point guard matchups and everything,
But man, I think for the most part, yes, a
la if it happened, But I think for the most part, man,
we got a lot out of him. He had a
good time. Man, I'm looking for you guys checking this
episode out.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
What up y'all?

Speaker 4 (02:19):
We started on season five on the East Coast, so
come see us live in New York October seventh and
in Philly October ninth.

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Man, make sure y'all pull up New York, y'all have
to pull up.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
We having the one and only my text brother Larry Johnson,
grab myma in the building. And also on the ninth Philadelphia,
y'all know where I'm coming home, and we had to
pull up with our brothers Gilian Wallow. We came in
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It's gonna be a movie. Don't miss it.

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Get your tickets at all the Smoke Productions dot com
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Your other cousin that y'all don't know is cousin, but
y'all said, y'all was for cousins.

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All y'all come to the show. Bro All y'all come.

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We got merched, we got cocktails and Neil Yo's, we
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Everything you don't want to miss. The DJ's music, the
whole nine.

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Then Bootleg Snacks with glitter again. That's All the Smoke
Productions dot Com slash Tour. Get your tickets before it's
too late.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Don't miss it.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
We'll see y'all.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
There were calling on all our fans for this one.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Jack. This is special man.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
Over five years of work in two hundred episodes.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Releasing October eighth, is the All the Smoke Coffee table Book.
Been working hard on it. Were super excited. We used
guys to see it. But October eighth, we're releasing our
first All the Smoke Coffee table Book.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Three hundred pages, have never before seen pictures, untold stories
and highlights of our five year journey with All the Smoke.

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But before it releases, you can get yours on pre
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and Amazon All the Smoke Book.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
We might have some surprises in the book for you.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
So you don't have to wait till October eighth to
get yours pre order. Years and now so we can
run up on that bestsellers list. Man, we need you
guys help.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Man.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
We ain't asked them to me favorite. You're asking for
a favor now, man, Perfect holiday book, Birthday book, Coffee
table book, Dennis book, Jim book. Put that book anywhere. Man,
it's versus Tile All the Smoke Coffee table book. So
go get your book now. It's available at Amazon or
in the link in our bio. Welcome back All the Smoke.
We're out here in La right now. One of my
all time favorite players. Someone we've been trying to chase

(04:19):
down for a minute. I grew up here in a
lot of bottom growing up in Texas. Yeah, I mean,
five time NBA All Star, five time All NBA, one
of the originators of the crossover being Shy Town Hall
of Famer, Ship Talker, Sun God Game. But we're talking
to Pops today, man, Welcome to the show. Tim Hardaway,

(04:40):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (04:42):
It's been a minute. You know, we've been trying to
get together. Time have been right.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yes, I bumped in to you the air for we
we talked about it. Yeah, you like.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yeah, you're gonna come in like yeah, we're trying to
make it happen.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, So how's life?

Speaker 4 (04:55):
I seen you out here. You are your runner, you
run around the track still. I see you out here
keeping your cardio up and your health right.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
What's going on?

Speaker 5 (05:01):
I gotta keep mccardi r right. Kendall Gill, Chicago guy.
He implemented sixty forty things from his lou Hiss and
god Rich his soul from Illinois. They used to do
that right before they went into the n C Douba tournament.
And it's you run sixty jog forty and it's a
continuous run and it's a real nice workout, and you

(05:23):
do it on turf. You don't do it. You're on
your knee, cap oh, weight on your hibs, your kneecap,
your back, everything. So you know, it's a good way
of staying shape.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Kender Gill, he's still boxing. He can go twelve rounds.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Right now, right now, right now, right.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I heard he was always ultimate shape fighter.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Your family almost got a ring last season. Yes, Junior
was with Dallas. I want to talk to because we
were talking about before you came in. He went from
someone they paid that was playing a lot and then
all of a sudden just wasn't playing no more. And
you said a few things as a father, and I'm
a father of kids who play, so I know how
that gets. What was first of all as a father

(06:01):
with a son in the game, what was it like
trying to just keep his mental into it And what
were those conversations like during that time where he should
have been out there and just wasn't.

Speaker 5 (06:10):
I said, it's tough, first of all, as a pops.
Is tough knowing that your son is supposed to be
out there and you can help the team win. He
knowing that he can help the team win, but for
some reason, they're not telling nobody Jason Kidd Nico are
not telling nobody why he's not playing. What's the deal?

(06:31):
And that's the hard part. If a you know, if
a coach come to you, or if a general man
is coming to you and say, hey, this the reason
why I'm not playing you. I said, we could take that,
we grown men, and we could take that, but it's
disrespectful to me as I played with you on the

(06:53):
two thousand Olympic team. We got gold together, win Hall
of Fame together, we all in its fraternity together, and
you are coaching my son and you don't have the dignit,
dignity to go to my son and just have him
in the room and talk to him and just say, hey,

(07:14):
this x y Z that's why I'm not playing, and
we could with that. I'm just saying, you know, that's
just disrespect to me and my son. But I told
my son, I said, hey, I understand what you're going through.
I could see it in your face. Just root for
your teammates, be professional, be professional about it. Keep doing

(07:35):
what you're supposed to do in practice because you never
know when your number might be called. But another thing,
you know, I won't say. I won't say this. People
say when he gets in the game, he's supposed to
shoot the ball, he's supposed to make shots. You both
know rhythm. It's rhythm. Rhythm, it's rhythm. If you don't
get the ball three four, five minutes, you just playing defense.

(07:59):
When you when you get the ball, you gotta get
your rhythm together.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
I don't need to cut you off.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
For those that don't know, though, when coaches don't want
to play on their team or when they want it,
they trying to ship a guy, the person they do
is throw them and throw him in garbage minutes. When
They know he don't have enough time taxi show what
he can do, so he looks bad in those five
those five minutes, so that gives the team the reason
to trade them. That they do that on purpose. They've
done it to Alla Night, that to a lot of stars.
So a lot of y'all don't know that. They put

(08:24):
you into garbage time because they know you're a rhythm
guy and want They know you don't want to go
in at all, so you look bad and that gives
them the incentive to trade you.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
Go ahead, when you're just sitting in the corner, you
just go sit in the corner. I know Luca bad
boy one on one, he's a bad man. But if
like how howser from the Celtics when he comes in,
what do the Celtics find it? They we run an
offense for you right away, right now, right now, right now.
They run in place for Clay right now, right now,

(08:54):
right now. And I hope they do run place for
Clay this year. You know, it's all up to Luca,
because Luca running the whole show there, you know. So
if you don't run offense, your guys are just gonna
stand there and it's and it's gonna be problems. It's
gonna be problems and people you're not in rhythm. So
when when they was talking about my son not playing
and he coming in and he not shooting the ball, well,

(09:16):
first of all, you got to get the ball. You
gotta get the ball. First of all, you gotta have
somebody says some picks for you. You gotta you gotta
run some offense for me. And then another thing is
you got to get in the game. If you're not
in the game, you can't shoot, you can't play. So
so so it was frustrating for him to understand, to
know that he could go out there and help the team,

(09:37):
but for some reason, he didn't play. So I had to.
I had to talk to him. I was dead, talking
to him, I was dead, consoling him I was dead,
just like a father's supposed to be, and making him
understand it's gonna be alright. It's better days to come.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
So new chapter now for him and Detroit. Yes, a
team that hasn't played well. They got a new coach,
jb a friend of the program hoops and and expectations
for him this year to kind of find his rhythm again. Yeah, try,
He's still younger.

Speaker 5 (10:05):
Yeah, he turned in what he'll be thirty three next
year already already, Man, they've been heavier than my way heavier.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
And when you think about that, I mean obviously first bout,
Hall of Famer, All Star, All NBA, and just where
the money is today for players.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
I talked to a lot of former players when I
was playing. They would be like, I would give up
my rings to make the money. That's when we was
making the money that we was making, you know, like
four or five million dollars here in there. But I
just think, you know, they set the stage for us,

(10:47):
you know Magic, you know, Bob Coosey, who else, Rick Barry,
those guys set the stage for us, Bob McAdoo, you know.
So it's it's when I am talking, you know, it
frustrates them, but they got to understand that era was
that era, and what David S. Thurn did was turned

(11:11):
everything around and made it globally. And when it went global,
everything is everything now and social media.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
You know, if.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
Socbody's a brand now, Yes, everybody's a brand now. And
when I see the older players that played before us,
I always give them homage, you know, I always talk
to them, always and the young guys. You know, a
lot of these young guys don't know these guys and
they need to, you know, like Anthony Edwards, you need
to know these guys.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
What kind of seems like. And I got kids that are,
you know, fifteen, about to be sixteen. It seems like
this generation of maybe twenty five and younger don't I
wouldn't say they don't respect like this. Maybe there's just
so much other shit going on that they don't know
the history of what was before them.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
It's not not respect. Yeah, they they just got other ship.
There's a lot of stuff that matters, yeah to them. Yeah,
you know, you know, but but you're right, you're right
about that. And a lot of these a lot of
these kids need to brush up. Like you say, all right,
go look up Tim Martin or or go look up

(12:16):
Stephen Jackson. All right, go look up Mac Brown's go
look up out of side? Out of mind? How can
we don't talk about Coley? How come we don't talk
about Kobe the way we should talk about Cooby Kobe
was alive. We'll be talking about Kobe every day every day.
But I say, out of side, out of mind? They
everybody just skip over him.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean, we don't let him go crazy.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
I don't either.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
I don't either. Wait, we're missing a guy Kobe Bryant.
They'd be like, oh yeah, I'm.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
Like see, well, you know what's funny is that what
I what we found is people that played with or
against them don't miss him or or don't or do
speak about him. But it's I think against the media
that never played and all these people who are experts
in the game have bron jumping over everybody and right.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Up in that same colley, And that's not what that's
what we all do.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Respect to brout it incredible, yes, but I feel like
obviously there was a pecking order, and it always seems
like guys that played with or against Cobe have cob
at the top of the mountain as well.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Young you're just playing right now, Yeah, ask them. They
COVID at the top of SGA, all of them COVID
at the top of the list.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Let's talk about uh.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Your Miami Heat, Miami Boys right now. Y'all finished the
season off with a kind of rocky rough press conference.
The Godfather came out and you know, put his foot
down win going for this ship. This is my show,
and whoever gonna be here gonna be because I say
so kinda.

Speaker 6 (13:41):
You know, for him to say that, you know, I thought,
is that Jimmy trolling? Or is that Jimmy serious? You know,
if you're not on the court playing against Boston, around
the court playing against the New York next, you should
keep your mouth shut and your criticism of those things.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
What you think about that?

Speaker 5 (14:03):
I was I was waiting on that. I was waiting
on that. I knew something was gonna happen, I said,
I told some people, I said, pack on Talk this year,
pack On Talk this year especially. You know, he's tired
of a lot of things that's going on with the team.
He's tired of Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Butler Well and Tyler Hero too. Like he's been.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
He's been babying you and making you everybody was talking
about you the next He's been babying Tyler Hero for
a minute, and he just staying her.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
He ain't showed up yet either. But I think it's
I think you were talking to him and Jimmy.

Speaker 5 (14:36):
More so, if Jimmy didn't say nothing, you know about
other teams and you're not playing, you know, it would
have been all right, but when you came out and
say that, yeah, he's probably talking about both of them,
but I think he really Yeah directly, Yo, dude, you
haven't played in a lot of games this year, last year,
and especially in the playoffs. I need you to play

(14:58):
in the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
And I need you.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
I don't I don't if you play. If you play
more than seventy games, we wouldn't be in to playing
games two years in a row. All right, I need
you to play. And that's where you need to take
care of your body. You need to be in this gym.
Take care of your body. Not the gym, but the
weight room. Take care of your body and getting yourself straight.

(15:21):
And I was waiting on that, and we all understood
all my AMMI heat people understood where pat Rowley was
coming from. And you see what they didn't do. Yeah,
we're gonna wait. Yeah, they taking the Jerry Jones approach.
We're gonna wait.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Well, both of y'all. I want to ask both of
your aspects. Man, you're around the kids a lot too,
and they have so much access to so many different
things to keep their bodies. You know what I'm saying.
Ready to play on the court.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Why they missing so many games today, and not just
the NBA. I'm talking about all over. Even my son
in high school.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
They said, baby, because they're playing a lot of basketball
that could be but not in the NBA.

Speaker 5 (15:58):
You're not in the NBA. You're not playing that much,
and you're not practicing that much, right, practice, right, you know?
And like like like stan Van Gundy said, and a
great coach, and I love his commentary on TV too,
but he say, if you if you repetition your body
and position your body to play and condition your body

(16:19):
to play eighty two games, most people that played two
games don't get hurt.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Well, you got to think, I mean definitely when you
came in a while we came in, it was a
badger honored to play eighty two d you wanted to
play honor.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
It's like you got a reward by right, yes, and
didn't but you was out there eighty two games.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
And Jimmy tough, Jimmy one of the toughest guys that
I've known in the league that it just sucks to
he will miss so many games that important to that team.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Very important.

Speaker 5 (16:49):
He's very important to that team. And if he played
seventy two games, seventy five games. It's a totally different team.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Question.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
I got a question though, because you were someone who
had your career and then went into coaching and you
kind of obviously every generation, the area ever is different.
What is the difference between the players today and maybe
the players how they were when y'all played and then
kind of towards the end of your career and we
were coming in.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
We had basketball IQ. We understood basketball, We paid attention
to details, we wanted it, we understood what it took
to win. We put in the work to win. It
wasn't fake work. Some guys out there fake working because
they got to be out there and the camera on
and the camera on. You know, ah, you could you

(17:34):
could really look in their face and see if they
want to be out there, you know, like we wanted
to be out there. When we came out there, we
had a face on our face like yeah, yeah, it's
gonna be on right here when we come out, y'all,
people come out to shoot, and when they times to shoot, yeah,
we're not hugging a baby, We're not kissing this person,
We're not doing this, We're not doing that. We come

(17:56):
now here and we shooting a basketball. We our mind
is ready to play the game of basketball. We have
a job to do.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
You know.

Speaker 5 (18:04):
This ain't fun time. This is basketball time. This is
our job. This is our work, you know. And that's
what it was about today. It's about hey, you know,
kissing babies here like you want to be the pressure
about like like Chouncey Bill said, he said, somebody at

(18:26):
halftime he ran in there and looking at it and
posted his stuff at halftime the dunk yeah posted dunk
said what.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Are you doing?

Speaker 7 (18:33):
Man?

Speaker 5 (18:34):
Your mind is supposed to be in a game that
was getting blown out to see what I'm saying, saying, yeah,
I mean but right, Yeah, I would have said, you
gotta stay if you want to be back here, you
stay back here. You can't even come out to the bench.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
You know that.

Speaker 5 (18:49):
That's that's what That's what today's game is. But when
we played, we we had we had an attitude m.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Hm meant something.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
And you could be you could be cool just after
the game, right after the game, not during the game.
You might fight when your homeboys during the game and
then drink a beer with him after that exactly.

Speaker 5 (19:10):
That's the way it was.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
I would say, these kids are skilled as a motherfucker though.
I just think the skill level is higher than it's
ever been.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
I just think the i Q.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Playing without the ball, off the ball, understanding pick and rolls,
how to get off when you don't have the ball
in your hands. I think that's what a lot of
these kids and NBA players like these days past.

Speaker 5 (19:27):
Just staying right while you're standing. You're not going to
get the ball back. You know, why don't you cut?
Why don't you do something? But that's a lack of coaching. Coaching,
coaching to this error.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
To explain the errors, is this eraror they worried about
getting a bucket. We knew how to get somebody else
as bucket, right, And.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
That says a lot. That says a lot.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
That's why I like watching Golden State. I like watching Ballston,
you know, I like watching those teams because they move
the ball energy, they find its energy is fine. The
right person, you know, one past you might want to
shoot and that man open right there. Here you go,
no hesitation, I get you another one. That's where it's

(20:10):
supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
One thing I like about like coaches like Don Nels.
We talked about and and Rick Carli.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Those type of coaches that told me what they expected
me suspected from me to the beginning of the season.
So when the season went out started, I knew exactly
what my job was. You was talking about that by
Jay not having that conversation with your son. Suppose seems
like he's that type of coach. Supposed most likely would
be the coach for the nest Olympics here in LA
and I think it deserves it. But from from from

(20:40):
the outside looking in, give me a definition of coach
Bowl and why he's so great. I mean, of course,
coming up under Pat Rowley is makes it easy to
have their education, but he had to stand on his
own some way too personable.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
Yeah, somebody that you can connect to, Somebody that you
can talk to on and off the court, an educator,
somebody that's gonna watch film with you and go over
your game. That's what he started in the film right right.
And he started with Dwayne Wade. He said, let me
help Dwayne Wade. That's what Dwayne Wade got a lot

(21:14):
of his footwork from Dwayne was good, but you know,
some of his footwork he needed to work on, and
Eric exposure helped him out. With his footwork. That's when
Pat Rowley got more confident with eric exposure. But it's
all about communication and talking to the guys and looking
at film. Spoke film guy. It's big on film, watching film,

(21:35):
dissecting film. And when he he gonna show you, you know,
little clips, not thirty forty fifty clips. He gonna give
you about six seven clips. He's gonna give you four
bad ones for a good ones, show you what you're
doing wrong, what you need to correct, and we're gonna
go in practice and correct it.

Speaker 7 (21:53):
And he a lot.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
So so you know, they don't let the guys in
until the media in until after, you know, fifteen minutes
after they right before the practice is open. But Spoe
is actually out there working with guys on the court.
On the court. He's hands on with the guys on
the court.

Speaker 6 (22:14):
You know.

Speaker 5 (22:14):
Yeah, you gotta do it this way. We chopping it up.
And Pat used to be that like that too, you know, Pat,
Pat was young in his days. So he's come out there,
this is how we're gonna chop it up. This is
how we're gonna move and he go into the movement
of the defense and everything. So yeah, I'm just saying,
you know, that's how you gotta be. And you got
to talk to these guys. You gotta make him understand

(22:35):
what you need from you. Gotta make him understand how
you want them to play. And they and they would
adhere to that. If you don't do that, they're in
the water with sharks and don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Just got gold in the Olympics.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yes, you played on the two thousand Olympic team was
able to get gold as well. Talk to us about
what that experience was like representing the country and remind
us who was on that team.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Man.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
You know when you walk up and they give your
jersey U s A on, you got a big smile
on your face. You're like, damn all right. Now it's
bigger than the Miami Heat, Golden State Warriors. So the
Minnesota Timberwolves, this USA Kevin Garnet, Vince Carter, Alonzo, Morning,

(23:27):
Gary Payton, a kid no on that team, Van Bacon
and Toonio make dice Ray Allen.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Vince dunked over by right over him.

Speaker 5 (23:37):
But I'm gonna tell you see a lot of people
don't remember the most important play. We was down one
and Antonio make dice went in for uh we were
shooting a free throw and Antonio make dice. They put
in and Tonio make dice. He went up there and

(23:58):
he tipped in the ball. Guy box him out, but
you know how strong an athletic, he kind of jumped
over and tipped the ball in and we went up
by one. I think it was Lithuania. But we went
up by one and we had to go down and
play defense and somebody missed a three, got the rebound

(24:20):
and got it and we we won the game. But
we was in jeopardy that game. And if if mctonia
or mcdie didn't go in that game, we we would
not have won that game. Well, no, he came.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
It came out the room.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
Yeah, no, no he didn't. It wasn't in the rim.
He tipped it. He was supposed to be. It was
a free throw. Somebody was supposed to box him out,
and he tipped it in. He jumped over them and
tipped it in. But you know ano. Another thing about
fever roups. When we played in the nineties, it was fyscal,
So it was easy for us to go there and play.

(25:02):
When we these guys is they gotta get equipped for that.
They gotta get ready for that because they're not used
to that. There's no flopping it over there, you fall down.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
I watched the Friends game, the women's in the men.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, I've seen that.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
They was like that, that's not a foul. This is
this is this is Chicago, New York, l A. We
out on the street, were on the street. Look when
I call a foul, I call a foul. But other
than that, you better play some basketball. That's what we
gotta get acclimated to because we're not acclimated that. And

(25:43):
once they go through that and get acclimated to it,
then it'll be all right. But I mean, I mean,
I mean, not Danny be all right. But we we okay.
But you know, it's tough to go from what we're
doing here.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
And not flag football to te football.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, same thing, right to tackle football.

Speaker 5 (26:01):
That's kind of tough. It's tough. It's not easy.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
There was recently a video with the debate about your
crossover and ais crossover. Later you later came out and
said the video was bullshit. But I mean, you're you're
you tipped two step and then AI is hanging crossover.
I want to talk to you, where did your move
come from?

Speaker 5 (26:21):
Originally my move came from I practice. I practice. I practiced,
and so when I when I asked a kid, I said,
how come you can't go work out by yourself? He's like, well,
you know it's too hot outside. Well you know, I don't.

(26:43):
Then they'd be like, I don't know. I said, you
don't want it, you don't want it? I said, I
wanted it. I used to ride two miles, maybe a
mile and a half, with no seat on my bike,
put my ball in the frame, had two nets, get
to the park, climb up on the rim, put my

(27:04):
nets down, put on both sides, and I used to
play my mind that I'm playing against somebody I want
to kill. So if I'm playing against Isaiah Thomas, all right,
or if I'm playing against you, or I'm playing against you,
but y'all not in front of me, but I'm in
my mind, I'm going at you full game speed. So

(27:25):
a free throw line, have coret free throw line. I'm
the first ten. I'm making layups. First ten's up back,
I'm making laps. Then I'm shooting ten free throws. Then
after that I'm shooting all floaters up and down but
I'm doing moves and I'm crossing over and I you
know what, I didn't know I had to cross. So
I'm just out there dribbling. I'm just out there going

(27:46):
through stuff. Because everybody say when I was, you know,
coming up, that guy's betting you, that guy's betting you.
You got to prove yourself. I always had to prove myself.
So I work on my game because I wanted everybody
to be wrong about me. And that's how you work
on your game. You got to go out there and

(28:07):
do it yourself.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Creativity though everything, you just say, that's creativity out there
playing one on one against nuts.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
So right, you know, on on. So when I when
I came against you, I didn't done this so much.
I've I've been playing in my mind. I've been playing you.
So I do a move. It just was easy for me.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
How has the crossover evolved in these combinations of all
that just a little bit of We talked about the
skill level being, you know, as high as it's ever been.
But how do you think the crossover has evolved?

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Man?

Speaker 5 (28:39):
It evolved, Uh, tremendously. Everybody using it KD. You know,
Anthony Edwards, of course you got uh, Chris Paul Kyrie,
It's funny. I'm watching a game watching James Harden.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
He does it.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
He does it all the time. He does my crossover
all the time and gets to the rim all the time.
And I and I'm watching them. I said, they're going
my crossover. And my wife be laughing, like I saw
I rewind. She said, he showed did it? I said,
I said, he does it all the time, but nobody
speaks about it.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
You know, you was left right, he right left?

Speaker 5 (29:20):
No, I was, Yeah, I was left right, right, right,
left exactly. So I see it all the time and
I laugh. I'm like, he doing my crossover and he
gets open every time every time. But you know, like
I said, Chris Paul, of course, Steph. You know, and
it's a lot of other ball players out there. I mean,
I used to love watching my man do it. Uh uh.

(29:44):
That's now with Charlotte Hornet as an assistant coach. Ah,
I forget his name, but went to Ukon. He just retired, Yeah,
just retired. Walk.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, we got to take a second man, right, you know,
the big goal in the house.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, how you doing, Thanks for coming by. Thanks, I
get to tell.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Yeah, big what's happening? Oh yeah, yeah, you know every
time I see Archie Clark, he beats me down. You
know your cross so well ship, the bar let you had,
he was let you had heard heard no personal talking

(30:36):
to University of Cincinnati and I'm walking and I see you.
I said, it was like, I said, can you tell
you a picture of me with the big It was like, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Go back to Chicago. Uh, you grew up in the gang,
real the neighborhood. You said, there was nowhere to hide.
You just had to figure it out and basically use
your survival skills. How was growing up in Chicago?

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (31:01):
Man, it was very hard. A lot of people when
I tell the story. You know of the gangs in Chicago.
You know growing up in grammar school, you know high school,
it was tough man Grammar school, right, elementary grammar school.
You know, growing up in grammar school back in the seventies. Man,

(31:24):
it was tough man aar Rookings, the black gangs, disciples. Uh,
you know you seeing gang wars and gang fights and
you got to fight to get to school, You got
to fight get home from school. Something you running watch dressing? Man,
I stopped wearing a hat like blue hat, red hat,

(31:47):
walk straight. Yeah, you had to. You know, I got
tired of just every time I'm fixing my hat so much.
I was like, you know, I'm just gonna not wear hat.
I'm just I'm just gonna wear a scully, a black scuff,
you know, so nobody mess with me, you know. But yeah, man,
you walk around. Man, you had you if you had
your like this, they was like, oh, you see you

(32:08):
walking down the street. People three or four guys coming
off the bench. You just off the porch. You just
turned back around and walk the other wind, go around,
and then when you get towards where they can't see,
you just start breaking and running and stuff. I mean,
it was tough, man. It's about survival. It's about survival
and knowing how to survive and knowing who your friends
are and who wasn't your friends, who you can make, friends,

(32:31):
who you can believe in and trust and stuff like that.
So you know, once they and not my dad. You know,
my dad was a playground legend, and everybody knew my
dad and everybody knew his people. So once they knew
who I was and I was his son, I became cool.
Like now I'm off limits. So I was I was

(32:52):
real cool because everybody knew my dad and his people,
so it became kind of okay. Then I was cool.
You know, I was walking around and I know that
people are not gonna mess with me. I ain't gotta
run all the time, you know, I don't have to
fight all the time. So my dad was like six ' three.

(33:13):
My dad said, there's no positions out there on the court.
Go out there and play. Go out there and play.
Go out there. If you if you got if you're
on a big fella, you just gotta push him out.
You gotta play tougher than him. You gotta out, You
gotta box the mouth, you gotta rebound, and you gotta
you just and he and he told me how to
think the game. You gotta think the game. You gotta

(33:36):
understand how to think the game. Our guess guy out
think a guy you know, uh, you know, like Dennis
Robins used to push you and then he pushed you again.
You push him, He's not gonna do nothing. Then he
gets strong and next thing you know, you push him again,
he falls down.

Speaker 6 (33:51):
You know.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
That's why I used to hate about John Stock. John
Stock used to give me God my God, he used
to give me at least two times a game. I'm like,
we coming, we were bumping, and then he hit me.
Now hit him back. He don't do nothing, and he
hit me again. And then as soon as I get
strong hereim he falls And referee say, you just gotta
know how to play the game, That's all I mean.

(34:12):
But yeah, I mean that's the way it is. You
guys got to outthink your opponent.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
I credit a lot to my attitude and me being
straightforward and uh, you know, not really cutting nothing from
where I come from. When I speak, right, you one
of the best ship talkers of all times? Did you
learn that from Chicago streets?

Speaker 5 (34:30):
No question, question, real question. You know, if if it's
a lot of things that goes on and people when
they talk shit to you, you gotta make them understand
that you're not gonna beat it's not gonna be that way. Yeah,

(34:50):
I'm gonna talk ship back to you. And then after
while I'm talking ship to you, I'm gonna beat you down.
Yeah yeah, And this is gonna motivate me. You know,
but you know you knew you Like like I said before,
in Chicago, you gotta know who to talk ship to
them not to talk because game bangers, you know, they
used to they used to ball too, and there used

(35:11):
to be some hell of a hoopers out there, so
you can't talk ship to them and then think that
you was gonna get away with The killers are the
most one, right y'all very sensitive, so he had you know,
he talked ship to you be like okay, yeah, right, yeah,
you got it. Yeah, all right, here you go, all right,
cool foul there you go, all right cool because we

(35:32):
know the guys, we know who they are and what
they're about. They're gonna come out there and hoop and
they're gonna do their thing, and you you just it's
kind of like you let them do their thing because
it's not a win win situation because it's nothing and
it's fifty people with them. They come in with fifty people.

Speaker 7 (35:50):
Mm hm.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Talk about Chicago runs. We had summertime, summertime runs. We
had a great time, great conversation with one our brothers,
Antoine Walker, about about the runs and about MJ and Broun.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Can you talk to us about the runs?

Speaker 7 (36:04):
Man?

Speaker 5 (36:05):
So let me let me let me go to bron first.
So we's playing at hoops. What tim Grover used to
have and I ain't no bron at the time, and
they said he just came off entry, took off his
cast or whatever, and were playing, and you know, he

(36:27):
just recklarly. You know, he ain't showing nobody nothing, and
he was coming on a fast break and I faked
like I was gonna go to him, but I went
over here. It was like a three on two on.
I faked. That motherfucker just took off sixteen seventeen. That

(36:49):
motherfucker just took off from the free throw line. I
was like, he just took off from the free throw line.
He missed it, but he was way up there. He
just missed out. I get this was like his like
second time playing, so he was still frantic and getting
back out there for about after about four or five

(37:11):
weeks and not playing. That motherfucker took off. Man, I
was it was like a cartoon and everybody was like WHOA.
I was like, okay, that's the first time I saw
Brin And you know, he was still just regularly he
was still feeling everybody out. He wasn't really he was playing,
but he wasn't like, you know, he was just still
feeling everybody out. But yeah, man, I runs was fierce

(37:32):
in Chicago. I runs was fierce, and oh I got
a ton of a ton of stories. So I'm in college.
I'm going into my junior year of college. And a guy,
he he walks up to me and say, Heyo, we
got MJ coming.

Speaker 6 (37:50):
I was like, MJ.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
Who He's like, we got MJ? I said, MJ. Who
said this Chicago? Who was MJ? He said Michael Jordan.
I said, oh, well, he gonna get his ass busted
to ship this. I turned out. I had me Nick Kendall,
gill Uh named Donald Reeves. We had our Fred Q's

(38:12):
and his brother. We was rolling, We was rolling. They
brought in Michael Jordan, Terry Comings, Craig Hodges. I'm like,
you didn't tell me all this was coming. Y'all, y'all
got pros coming. We're not even the pros yet. We're
trying to get there if we're gonna make it. So
I'm like, okay, here we go, here we go. See

(38:33):
But a lot of people don't know. I studied Craig Hodges.
Move see Craig Hodges used to come down. He'll put
it in his right cross between his legs and he
has spin and like he and then he go to
the basket and let up. So A gotta be way
over here, and he's spending going back right. So I

(38:53):
knew when he was gonna do the move, and I
was sitting on it.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
He'll be a great guest.

Speaker 5 (38:59):
Yeah, he got a lot of oh man, oh man,
he talk about a lot. And I took the ball
away from one down court or whatever. But before the game,
the guy was like, atim, I got a bet. I said,
what's the bet? He said, I got a bet that
you're gonna score six points, four or six points with
Then Michael Jordan, I said, okay, said how much the bet?

(39:20):
He said about eighty thousand. I said eighty thousand. He
said yeah. I said okay. I said, but I need that.
It was an original Louis Vatan jacket that he got
made and I wanted that jacket. I said, I got
to have that jacket. I gave me ten thousand dollars.

(39:40):
I said, you got a many in thirty seconds, Man,
I gotta go play.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Let me know.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
He said, oh man, fuck you bet. I said, all right, cool,
So after we play, after I did Michael, I mean,
after I took the ball from crig Hodges. I went
up for a lift. They called timeout, timeout, timeount. He
was like, damn, you can't stick him. I said, no,
he can't stick me. Why don't you switch off on him?

(40:07):
You said it to M to m the crowd went, oh,
Mike just turned his head and just kept walking like man, no, no,
y'all got to do with that mont. He didn't want
that problem. It's plus, I'm at the crib too, I'm
in front of my crowd. I'm rolling to its nipping tuck.

(40:28):
He's supposed to have fouled out, but you know that's Mike.
They want a double old time. But I tell you this,
man Mike said after the game, he said, good game.
He looked me in my eye. He said, you got
a chance. You got a chance. At that particular point,
you still trying to feel yourself out, You still trying
to understand. You know, if you got a chance. That

(40:51):
door opened, and it's from m it open. When that
door opened an inch, I kick that motherfucker open.

Speaker 7 (41:00):
Man.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
Because you getting that from him, my confidence went to
another level and I was like, Wow, that's I mean.
And that's all he said. You got a change.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Sometimes that's all you need though, right, especially coming from him,
and you.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Know, we used to play. We had we had a
bunch of ball Isaiah Thomas, Doc Rivers, Mark Kuye, Terry
come As, Eddie Johnson. Everybody used to come to the
house and play. And we used to play against pros
all the time. So it was nothing for us to
play against pros. And that's why we got, you know,
so many pros that's in the league from Chicago because

(41:36):
we go back and we played against all these other
high school and college guys and taught them and you
know and talk to them, so you know that that's
where Chicago is what this is.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
I heard.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
I heard that that's the reason how the NBA, some
league and training cap got to Chicago because all of
the basketball players was going in and played in the
summertime and they they was already.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
So that's how the idea of came.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Because when I came, we came in all the sudden league,
the pre draft cap, all that was in Chicago for years, right,
And they said the reason why I started there because
of the Chicago runs.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
That's how it happened.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Yeah, it's always been big Chicago runs, and it's it's
starting to pick up again now and Sunny Parker got
a big summer league tournament that's going on right now.
But no, man, it's uh, it's been a big part
of our lives ever since I was in like seventh
eighth grade. You used to go and watch these guys play,

(42:31):
and I used to be at the gym. The game
started at seventh We at the gym at five because
it's getting crowded. At six o'clock, you couldn't even get
in there. Yeah, I mean you're watching Mark Guy. I've
seen Mark Guy get mad at referee and walk the
length of the court, throw his jersey down, and the
guy ran down the court, down the middle of the court,
grabbed that jersey, just a mess jersey with Mark Guy's

(42:55):
name on it, and just took off and ran with
We used to ask people for their sweaty jerseys after
the game after when it was over with. Man, that's
how big something lead.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
How many how many basketball players you you're in LA,
so it's probably different, but growing up, how many actual
NBA players do you actually get a chance to meet? Right,
you know what I'm saying. So, you know, I can
imagine how the kid felt like I got a chance
to get a jersey.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
Yeah, you know what I mean. And everybody's personal. You
walk up to him, all the graft to the pictures,
shake hands, high five. It was just all personal.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
You know.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
We had so much fun, man, just by being there
watching them and talking to them and just see and
just hearing the footsteps. And you know, Rod, he gets
used to play. He never missed a shot. That missed shot,
just missed the fund. Milt mm hmm. I mean that's
the way it was, man.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
We did.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
We love watching it.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Like fourteenth pick in the eighty nine draft, there was
rumors that Nelly bad talked to you, so you slid
to go to State at fourteen in truth to that,
did you know anything about that?

Speaker 5 (43:57):
Yes, that was true. Yes that was true. Fucking Nelly,
fucking NOLLI, fucking Nelly, great guy. Oh but I tell
you this, So I supposed to go down to last
day you go and work out fourteen trying to get
out of Chicago. It was a typhoon in Chicago. Couldn't
get out. Was at O'Hare airport to two am, couldn't

(44:19):
get out and never got to Oakland to work out
what the Warriors. Three days later that it was that Sunday,
so monday'll be able to work out. So we had
the draft Wednesday Thursday night, and I'm thinking, I swear
to here, I'm going to Minnesota, Bill Musselman, I'm going

(44:42):
to Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Going.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
Poor Richson. Okay, okay, Dick first six, I'm going to Indiana.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
What pick was Minnesota first?

Speaker 5 (44:55):
I think they was three and then I think Indiana
was four or five something like that. George McLeod. So
you gotta be kidding me. But I'm in my mind.
You know, I'm not showing no, you know nothing. And
then and I knew Boston like me too, And they

(45:16):
got the big fella from he lives here from b
y U. I forget his name, and I always forget
his name. Uh, but uh, come to find out, I
get the Golden State. After Golden State picked me, Nelly
was like, yeah, you know, no, not Sean Bradley. Uh

(45:37):
but yeah, he he's been telling everybody that got bad
knees and you should pick me. Yeah, telling everybody got
bad knees, you shouldn't pick him. And uh, he's gonna
be a bust in three years for you. And that's
what he and I know I know when when he
picked me, I know what they face looked like to

(45:59):
I know exactly what they face looked like. And but yeah, man,
that's what the story was. And after I got to Oakland,
Chris Mullins like, what you want to do? I said, Man,
I haven't shot ball in like two weeks. Man, I
want to go play some basketball.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
He's like, come on, let's go.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
So we wanted to go play. We played basketball for
like four hours.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
How cool was Moulley? I mean, we got a chance
when we came in with that we believe team. There
was still Mitch was still there, Molly was still there.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Just the energy.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
The team hadn't been good since you left, you know
what I mean, So there's been such a gap and
just playoff appearances. But what was that your first impression
of Oakland? Obviously you said Molly picked you up from
the Red But what was that first interaction like and
what was your first experience like out there in Oakland?

Speaker 5 (46:39):
You heard so much stuff about Oakland. I knew a
bunch of players from the East and Midwest that came
out to Oakland, you know, and got caught up in
that situation. Get you you know, it'd get you and wet.
They first ain't tell you leave that stuff alone, watch
you drink all that type of stuff. So you know,
not the name on names, but you knew the people

(47:01):
that was dead and that was you know, into that stuff.
You know. Fortunately I grew up around it, all that
stuff in Chicago, drugs, games, all that type of stuff,
so I knew how to handle myself when I got there, uh,
which was you know, helped me out tremendously. The fans, man,

(47:28):
the fans are unbelievable. They'll tell you if you're not playing,
they'll tell you if you you know, if you if
you're sitting on your ass and dogging it. They'll tell you.
Some of the greatest fans in the world. And you know,
you have some of the greatest people that came through there.
You know, Robert Parris played there before he went to Boston,
Rick Berry, Al Addams, those guys. You know, so it man.

(47:52):
I mean, the fans there.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
Will make a pit stop and yeah, yeah, yeah, well yep, yep.
Talk about Molley, I don't think he gets enough love money.
Got a lot a lot of game money.

Speaker 5 (48:06):
Quiet Molley, Quiet, you know, I always said this. He
was a two time Big East Player of the Year
and then we was with somebody. I said that, and
then Molly went like this three three three times Biggie's
played from the Big East? Was it too with Patrick Ewing,
Pearl Washington? You know, people from Connecticut and all that. Man,

(48:30):
come on, man, come on man, Chris Mullin, slow ass,
Chris Mallin, shoot your face out. And people think I'm hating.
People think I'm lying. But we, like I said before,
we never had social media. And when I say I
didn't seen Chris Mullen make a hundred threes in a row,

(48:51):
I didn't seen him make a hundred threes in a row.
And people be like, ah, you lying. I say, you
could take it for what you wanted to be there.
You had to be there like you was there for.
When you say Steph Curry made ninety five ninety six
in a row, that's cool. I understand that. But I
seen my man make a hunting in a row. I

(49:13):
didn't seen my man go for two and a half hours.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
And did not miss Is he the only one not
in the hall at all? Three?

Speaker 3 (49:21):
No, Chris is in.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
He's in the hall all three before you. Yeah, he
went in before me. It was Chris, Mitch and myself.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
He was twenty five fire miss too. Yes, it was
twenty four, was twenty five, five and four for five
straight years. Talk to us about run TMC. Where the
name is Mitch, where the name came from, and just
what that chemistry was like amongst you three.

Speaker 5 (49:43):
The chemistry just came just just because we love to
play basketball. After we practiced, we practiced for about two
two and a half hours and then we'll played three
on three whole court.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
We did that too, were not the whole court.

Speaker 5 (49:54):
But yeah, we played. Yeah, we played three on three
whole court. And then Chris Chris yourself and he said, Okay,
if you steal a ball, you can't score the ball
until everybody get over half court. Now, everybody gotta get
over Your team got to get over half court. And
I'm like, wait, come up with that. But it's all
about being in shape. It's all about having energy. So

(50:18):
if you sticking somebody and they're about to post you
up and Mitch get is steal at half court, I
gotta run from the baseline to half court before we
make a layup or we got to bring it back down. Yeah, everybody,
So yeah, man, I mean, we we just love to
play basketball. And we we had signs. You look, you look,
he'll go like this, Well he'll do his eyes Mitchell, Chris,

(50:42):
and I throw it right here past his ear and
he'll lay it up, or he'll be like, you know,
throw a lob and stuff like that. It was just
little stuff that we just practiced and we talked about.
And that's where the run teams she came. I hear
Chris on one side, here Mitchell on the other side.
When you right them on your left, Rod Higgins, I'm trailing.
You know, you can always hear Rod. I'm trailing. If

(51:04):
you need me, I'm trailing.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
You know.

Speaker 5 (51:05):
Sometimes I drop Rod off a bone or whatever. But
you can hit those you can hear those guys, man,
they coming down. Just get them ball. And you know,
it was like, who is you gonna come off of
You're in trouble. You know you can't you can't go
double team Mitch. You can't go double team myself or Chris.

(51:27):
But we're gonna we as unselfish. We'll pass the ball.
We know if it comes back to us. That's the
energy of the basketball. So but no, man, run timc Man.
We had so much fun and we when we go
when we came out east, we went out East, there
was so many people that wanted to see us that
we sold out. And you just you appreciate your work

(51:51):
when people come and see you. You you appreciate the
craft and the work you put in each and every
day that people come in and see you. And you
sell out in New York, you sell out in Boston.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
You sell out to lead by Storm.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
Yeah yeah, yeah Storm. Then Nelly traded him, But we're
not getting in that.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Were you there when when when s Webb was drafted?

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Yes, yes, I was there.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Man, How could the things have changed if him and
Nelly didn't bump his Oh?

Speaker 5 (52:20):
Man, this is what happened. So Nelly came downstairs and said,
we finally it was first they practice. We finally finally
signed him, and we practicing, and that's when I blew
up my ac that day, that day, that day. But

(52:43):
if I was there and I and I understood what
what because Molly came and was talking to me. He said, man,
it's time for you to start coming around. You gotta
start working out with the team or or working out,
you know, getting your knee together with your team. With
the team because they bump in his I ain't know
because I wasn't around. I didn't know how it was.
I was at practice, but I really, you know, was

(53:05):
doing my thing, and so it was kind of it
was tough. But I could have bridged the gap between
Nelly and with Web and made Web understand how cool
Nelly was, how cool Nelly was, and how he was
trying to take his game to another level. Web wanted
to just catch the ball and take his man one

(53:26):
on one. Nelly envisioned Web and doing the same thing
that he did in Sacramento in his later years, pointward,
point forward, like he could have done that his rookie
off the rip, But at that particular time, Web wasn't
interested in that. He was interested. I need the ball

(53:46):
over here, cleared out. Let me do my thing, all right.
I set a pick, we thought a lid. We'd do
this and that and this and that. But but I
think Web understood once he got to see sacramental what
what Nelly wanted when he was a rookie, because he
saw he saw what he had with his tools as

(54:07):
a basketball player. We saw it in Sacramento. If you
could have seen it early on he.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Believed in it. Even when we was go to State.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
He came back for a minute.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
He came back to that work, and then Nelly pulled
some bullsh on Web again, and Web just left.

Speaker 5 (54:22):
Yeah, I tell you this. If you yeah, Nelly will
do that. Nelly will do that. Nelly will do that.
He like, look, man, I mean he'll believed in you.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
But yeah, yeah, he's the same same coach that made
me a captain for the first time, but also the
first coach to ask me where.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
I wanted to get traded to.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
The time is up?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Son knocked my daughter. How you feel about where you
want to go?

Speaker 4 (54:48):
That sound like he gave me my first real job,
multi year deal and did some dirty ship to me
after my mom died. So yeah, I saw the best
of them.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Man.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I wanted to fuck him up.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
I saw I saw this.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
We was at Seattle preseason game. Oland Polynese was fucking
people up, just filing people for no reason at all.
Preseason game. Nelly said, till Mike Smreck, who.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Else was telling us, finish the story someone else.

Speaker 5 (55:20):
Told he said, He said, Mike, I want you going there.
Fuck Olden Polynese up. In the fourth quarter, he came back.
I mean after the game, in the fourth quarter, he
had twelve minutes to fuck open up. He had zero files.
Mike Schmarck. He went in with zero foles, came out

(55:42):
with zero foles. Nelly didn't say nothing. We go back
to Oakland. We got practice, so we started practicing, warming up,
doing some stuff. I Mike smrek one on one, all right,
he had to stop one person at a time. Okay,

(56:05):
two on one, three on one, four on one.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
I'm filing somebody three on one, two on one, fire,
getna file in five on one.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
He ain't filed nobody yet.

Speaker 5 (56:24):
We all brought it in. This went on for like
forty minutes. We all brought it in. All right, tell everybody, everybody,
tell Mike's freck, thank you and goodbye. This is last day.
And he walked out. I'm looking like, yo, yo, mom, this.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Is what happens.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
M just went on there.

Speaker 5 (56:50):
He got some mice on.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yo.

Speaker 5 (56:53):
I'm like, wow, yeah, man.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Mitch told us that story at All Star All Star.

Speaker 6 (56:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:59):
Man, I've never seen ship like that before in my life.
And Mike's from Reck say, hey man, thank y'all man,
I appreciate y'all. Blah blah blah, this and that and this,
and he went on to the Lakers got a ring.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
He kind of did something like that that Al harringson.
He told he wanted out to lose weight, and I
wasn't losing the weight. So we start weighing out before practice,
we start wearing get on the scale before practicing after practice.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
That shit was so belivling, But he did it.

Speaker 7 (57:27):
He did.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
He's gonna make you do something. If he wants you
to do it, he's gonna find a way to.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Get you out.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
He had us playing shuffle board, so just to be
a captain, uh Nike decorated athlete, decorated athlete in the nineties.
How did that deal come together? And random mean you
had a mean shoe game. Yeah, you had a nice collection. Bro,
Do you still get those? Can you get those still?

Speaker 7 (57:48):
No?

Speaker 5 (57:49):
I think the bacons are gone. You just still get there.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
But those the ones that's my favorite. Yeah, I like these.

Speaker 5 (57:56):
He's very like them too, very light. The only reason
why I couldn't whim is because it's got some type
of Muslim selling along. Oh yeah in the back, yeah yeah,
I lied something right here on the side, right here
on the back that so, but I was wearing the
Bacon's one day in practice shooting around and Pat.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Was like, uh oh, I see it.

Speaker 5 (58:17):
Now I'm gonna get a Pat just cuse yeah right there.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah that's fine.

Speaker 5 (58:22):
I didn't know that, but yeah, I was wearing them
in practice shooting around New York and Pat was like, hey, man,
Tim can wear those shoes in the game. I don't
want him wearing those shoes in the game. And I
kind of overheard him talking to the equipment. So after
shooting around, I grabbed my own shoe and I took
him with me and I brought them back and I
had them ready to go.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
For the game.

Speaker 5 (58:42):
He was telling that the equipment. Hey, I thought I
told you you take them shoes away from He said, look, man,
I tried. He wouldn't let me have what you want
me to fight him, then he won't be able to play.
He might hurt something. So Pat just let it go.
And after we won, Pat was like, man, I'm so
glad you wore those shoes, but.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Now I won't win. Man, it's all about whim. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:04):
That was fun commercial to the fund Police, the fun Police,
it was.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Just another night at fund Police headquarters.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
Fund police high go down offense called twenty second time
out going away.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
This is JUnit twenty one possible born basketball gaming progress Yo,
Unit ten on the way.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
We copy that.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
No, oh no, we knew.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
What's up?

Speaker 7 (59:42):
Dogs up, up, up up up, Let's go, let's go.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Right.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
Yeah, Now, it was just one game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Police, slow it down.

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
I'm gonna tell you something. I'm so I was doing it.
It was Spike Lee, and Spike Lee just said, man,
just be natural. Just go out there and do you
just start. So we started playing basketball and some guy
was just talking ship to me and he was like,
just he told I see I saw him. He just

(01:00:28):
told the guy just keep it rolling, don't stop filming.
So he kept he talked to me at times, but
he said, all right, let's keep going. Let's keep going.
And that's where I got skills. And some guy walked
past me in the airport about three months ago. I
just got to hear it. I said, what you gotta hear?
He just said, just said I got skilled. Yeah, I said,
he said thank you, that's all he said. But yeah, man,

(01:00:51):
it was fun commercials.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
That's the era that a lot of people hold on to.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
Man, we were raising that area that's the area we
came up in. Traded to the heat of ninety six
at the trade deadline. Pat Riley's first year coaching, what
was it, What was it like playing for him, and
what was the difference between.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Him and Nelly?

Speaker 7 (01:01:05):
Man?

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
All business? You know, Nelly like to have fun times.
I'm going golfing now I'm not. Won'ta be no golfing here.
It's straight two and a half hours here, work, work, work,
I asked pat one d said I was another best.
I said, why we practiced for two and a half
hours every day? He said, that's how long the game is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Make a mat of sense.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
I didn't say no more, and I went to practice
every day and did what I supposed to.

Speaker 7 (01:01:36):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:36):
But but no, man, it is paying attention to detail film,
just no nonsense. When you when you when you walked
in that gym, you just feeled energy. It's just dray business.
It's dray business. There's no bsing up here.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
When you.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
When you get from that locker room and you walking
up those stairs, it's like a you know, like a
prize fire. When he walking down that hallways, he'd be
like yeah, he'd be like, you know, you walking you
having fun and stuff. You're still talking, and then you
get halfway down that tunnguel You're like, that's how it is,
just in practice. Then you get up in that stairs

(01:02:20):
and you get or you come in through that that
that door work.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
That's all.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
It's about work, and it's all about repetition. Repetition, repetition, repetition.
Everything its repetition.

Speaker 7 (01:02:31):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:02:32):
A friend of mine said, Tim, why why you why
you doing what you're doing games? I said, Man, we
do this every day. We do this every day. My
body don't can't help but to do repetition. I'm coming
in and I'm just sliding and doing this defensive drills.
That's repetition. But I mean, I love playing for Pat.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
So how you build a championship mental?

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
And I love playing for Pa. I love going to
practice every day. I love to work, you know. I
love going out there and competing for him and for
the Mia Me. I enjoyed it. A lot of people,
you know, they I enjoyed it because I love I
grew up my my grammar school coach, just like Pat,
no nonsense. Come out. We're gonna work and this way
it is, and we're gonna bust people ass.

Speaker 4 (01:03:12):
Look at this picture right here. You guys ran into
the to the Knicks four straight years in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Van Gundy on the other bench. A lot of history there.
Zoe talked to us about this, uh this time right here,
you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
There in the mix. What were those battles like with
the Knicks, particularly in the playoffs?

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
Crazy wild fun.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Liquen We went to grab too? Oh he grabbing? Ok,
got all people?

Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
No Tim, Now, Tim, Tim, I know oak One's gonna
swing back on because we could anybody else, anybody else,
I would have probably came with help or something like that.
But I'm like, come on, oh come on. But yeah, man,
that that that particular fight that was that was I mean,

(01:03:57):
but the fight wasn't And so Larry right, it was
something different going on with that. I can't say, some
other ship going on. That was the way back when.
But they was trying to stop it. But yeah, man,
it was. It was battles.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
It started with Pat leaving and they had a hatred
for Pat. Talking about Pat rally, Pat right left New York.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Had King's ransom. He asked for some crazy and got it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
Look what he built.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
Fifty million dollar contract twenty five hundred dollars per diem
Limo rise to and from games.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
No, you don't, no, no, take that out. He don't
get you're talking about from it for the for the
uh New York Knicks. No, oh no, no, no, no,
he drives.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Okay, Well, Mark that scratched that the heat needed to
buy him out of LA New York Homes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Any truth to that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
No, he still got his LA home Man team president,
head coach. Yes, all that, and there's a billionaire now, yeah,
he got. He got a lot of paper.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Packed mafia ties between me and you, pop not far
from that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
No, he knows some people. He knows some people. I
tell you that he knows some people. I'm gonna tell
you this, but no, he don't. He don't get. He drives.
He drives sometimes. He drives old cars.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
He drives.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
He got some nice old cars too. He got some
real nice old cars. He got that one car that
I want that was sevestered salon in it and he
was uh undercovered police officer. That red thing that dropped
down had fire come out of it. Yes, boy, that
car that was a bad car right there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
He would be on my bucket list.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
You know, we used to pick the five people want
to have dinner with because I can imagine the stories.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
From the farm till now. A lot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
He has a lot because we played in the preseason
with Don Nelson and we walked into we played in
the forum against the Lakers. Kobe Fire met in two
minutes that in the first quarde again, but as walking
he was like.

Speaker 5 (01:06:04):
If these walls could talk, yeah, yeah, and I know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
He got yes.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
Despite the tremendous Hall of Fame career you had, you said,
if you could remember for one thing, it would be
that you changed.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
As a man.

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Can you speak to us about those changes you made
over the years or throughout your career, or just as
you continue to evolve as a man.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
Parenting never stopped and being a husband never stopped. And
I always always always been as me and my brother,
and I always had to take care of my brother,
my mom. My parents divorced that when I was a

(01:06:47):
young age, when I was sixth grade. So I was
always the man I always had, like I said, take
care of my mom, my brother, and each day is
it an experience for me?

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:07:03):
And I never discount what I said back in two
thousand and five that really hurt me and really hurt
my family. I'm talking about my whole family, my parents,
my brother, his kids, my kids, my wife's family. It
hurt us all. And I had to really really dig

(01:07:24):
deep down and search and I understood I was wrong
and I had to evolve as a man and don't
my dad said. My parents, my parents always say, don't
never shy away from nothing. If you wrong, deal with
it and make amends and help people, Okay, And That's

(01:07:49):
what I've been doing. I hear some people, I'm out.
I hear some people, I'd be like, yo, ya, y'all
need to comment down. You need to stop that. That's
not right, you know. And I make them understand why
it's not right. You know, they are people too. They
here to have fun too, and they should. Everybody should
have fun and enjoy themselves, no matter who they are
and what they are.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:13):
But each day, you know, when I watch my son play,
I know when he's going to call me. M I
gotta be up late that night. When my daughters call
me they got a problem. I gotta deal with the
problem my mom or my dad, my brother, you know,

(01:08:33):
so they expect, they expect me to be there so
I gotta be strong for a lot of folks, and
and I know how to deal with it. You could
grow up under a rock and not deal with it.
But this is my family. I'm all about family, and
I'm gonna take care of my family as as as
long as God keeps getting me up every day. That's

(01:08:58):
my mission. Take care of my family.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Love it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
And that's what it's about. And growing up as a man,
and and and it's not you know, it's not being
a man. There's a lot of women out here that
that that has a lot on their shoulders, but they
deal with it and they do what they're supposed to do,
and it's kudos to them. So it's how you deal
with it. It's how you deal with it and how

(01:09:25):
you could make it better for people. And that's what
I try to do. I try to solve the problem,
make it better, you know, and make and make them
understand what it's really going on. But it's gonna be
all right. It's definitely gonna be all right. Because I'm
from Chicago, man. I'm telling you what I went through

(01:09:48):
and how I had to just make it out of there.
It was a struggle and with our people behind me
and giving me confidence and support. When they said to
a village to raise a kid, it really takes a village.
But the kid got to listen.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Yeah, I got to buy in.

Speaker 5 (01:10:06):
You gotta buy in. If you don't buy in, you're
gonna fall through the cracks. So you gotta listen. And
I was one that listened, and I understood what I
need to do to get out and make some numb myself.
And that's what I keep doing it. And I go
back and I give back all the time to the
kids and talk to the kids in Chicago and make
them understand. Man, it's hard work.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
It was easy everybody to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
I posted something on my Instagram just wanting to to
to test to what you said. I say, don't get
addicted to escaping. Face your ship, handle your business and triumph.
No battles everyone by people who run. That's true, and
that goes to what you are today.

Speaker 5 (01:10:42):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
You gotta deal with it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
You gotta deal with you gotta face it. You know,
if you face it, it's gonna work its way out.
It's gonna work. If you don't face it, then you
get deep be there exactly when you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Come back to it's still gonna be there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
Quick hitters. Last thing before we get you up.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Three Nike models to wear for the rest of your life.
What are they?

Speaker 7 (01:11:03):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
Three Nike models. Oh Man air raids of course against
them now crossovers, original crossovers. Uh. And you know what
I got, I got. I gotta go with the air George,
I got to go with the air joints. The uh,
that's that, the uh the little concords. Now I'm talking

(01:11:28):
about the three court eleven yeah, elevens, the small, I mean,
but the low, the low. They're very comfortable. They very
come and of course you gotta have air Force ones
got to you got you got any color of them,
you got it. They so comfortable, gotta have them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
What you got on now? Bronze?

Speaker 5 (01:11:48):
Yeah, you know what I got? These are very comfortable.

Speaker 6 (01:11:53):
I got.

Speaker 5 (01:11:55):
Comfortable ship.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
As we get older, it's less about what they look
like and what they feel for the screen.

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
I'm walking in socks.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
I'm paying for comfort.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Only one thing you wish you were better at.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
Man, one thing I wish I was better at. You
know what I want. I want to get better at
being a parent. You know, it never stops, It never stops.

(01:12:32):
And you, and you gotta constantly, constantly, constantly be there
for them, and you gotta have ways to make them
understand how to get out of stuff. So it's parenting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
I would say music because a lot of videos of you,
you love R and B. You always sing, and I
thought you was gonna sing, That's what I said.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
Because you always no. No, I'm not gonna put that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
One album you could listen to with no skips.

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
One album, no skips. I will say, Frankie Beverly, he told.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
You he loved it. R and B. I know, Yeah,
you can't go wrong with.

Speaker 5 (01:13:08):
That class man or Off the Wall with Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
If you can have one guest on Guess on All
the Smoke, who would it be? But you have to
help us get your answer on the show, So it's
gotta be someone you're cool with, Pat whatever, Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
And I don't know how because money knows so much
about both of us.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
Or if you can get Ahold of the Big Old
and see if he want to come on the show.

Speaker 5 (01:13:32):
I mean, right there, you know what I I will say,
Chris Molley, Yeah, I will say Chris, y'all, y'all have
a great time. That's got to y'all will have great y'all,
y'all been here laughing Chris, Chris is funny.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
He's gonna tell some stories that we don't even remember, right, Yes, yes, well.

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
Tim man, we appreciate your time. Thank you for finally
getting a chance to sit down with us. We continue,
continue blessing to you and your family, and we'll be
rooting for you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Man New York. My fifth seven boys comes U and
l V let me kill Larry. Y'all said, let's go
ask where we should go, and y'all flooded it.

Speaker 6 (01:14:10):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
So we appreciate the love.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Like that, y'all coming out and showing us love. We
appreciate y'all. Mm hmmm mm hmm