September 17, 2019 • 29 mins
Money: It’s a stressful and often taboo topic that makes many people uncomfortable to even talk about.
But New York Times bestselling author Nicole Lapin and Entrepreneur Magazine editor-in-chief Jason Feifer say that’s the very problem, and one of the biggest reasons why so many people are in debt and suffer from money anxiety.
In this interview, no topic is off limits. Jason and Nicole debate the touchiest finance topics from their brand new podcast “Hush Money.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
I think that the reason why people are afraid to
talk about money is because we equit money with self worth,
and so when we are seeing ourselves struggle financially, we
feel like we are failures, and we compare ourselves and
how we do financially to other people, and we think
that the people who are making more money are simply
better than us. Hi. I'm doctor Oz and this is
(00:48):
the Doctor Oz podcast. Money, It's stressful, It's offten, a
taboo topic that makes many people uncomfortable. They don't even
talk about it. But my next guests say, that's the
very problem when the biggest reasons why so many people
are in debt and suffer from money and zodies so
today that no topics gonna be off limits. Will take
them all on New York Times best selling author and
(01:08):
good friend Nicole that been making it happen an Entrepreneur
magazine editor in chief Jason Phife for who just honored
Michelle Phife for your cousin or sister who she knows
we have no relation. I'm trying to help you. You
don't have to answer all the questions, Jason. Anyway, Jason
didn't put the shelf Fife for on the cover of
his magazine, Right Fife for making it happen. It's making
(01:29):
it happen. And I hear the debate to touches findance
topics from their brand new podcast Hush Money. It's very
intriguing title, what's the problem with money? Why is it
such a sensitive topic? I think we will talk about
everything at the dinner table before we talk about money.
You know, if you go to dinner with girlfriends or
your friends, you know, we'll talk about bikini waxes and
(01:49):
sexy time and everything. And then all of a sudden,
I say to my friends, so what's in your bank
account or how much are you making this year? And
it's crickets And I'm like, hey, lady, you just told
me about your who ha, Why are we so now
thinking money is off limits? And so I think it's
the language that keeps a lot of people out of
the conversation that sounds intimidating. Do you like, in that
(02:12):
same circle of girls, would you say, by the way,
I just made the X number of dollars on this book,
and I got to this investment. You do, yeah, I
go first, So I play the game of I'll show
you mine if you show me worse, and I do
that in my books. I actually talk about what I
made for my book in my books because I put
my money where my mouth is, quite literally. I knew
people would ask reading the book, like this girl talks
(02:33):
about money in the book, how much did she make?
So I was like, I didn't even ask the publisher.
I was like, okay, well here was my advance, Here's
how much I made at CNBC. Here's how much I
made at CNN. Yeah. I read that and I thought
I need to get into television business. Being both businesses,
I can assure you're right. So, Jason, difference between debt
stress and money and Zodi, what's through dvich Oh my gosh,
(02:56):
what you're like? Really just cutting too? I feel like
suddenly walking from last year, I toll those from you.
I didn't think there was a huge difference a debt
stress and money anxiety. Well, let me let me back
into that if I can. I think that the I
think that the reason why people are afraid to talk
about money is because we equate money with self worth,
(03:17):
and so when we are seeing ourselves struggle financially, we
feel like we are failures, and we compare ourselves and
how we do financially to other people, and we think
that the people who are making more money are simply
better than us. That's something that's been drilled into us,
and I think that that drives a lot of people crazy,
especially if you're not making a lot of money and
(03:39):
if you're in a mixed financial group. Which is the
reason why I always have a trouble talking about money
with friends, is because I feel like I either don't
want to reveal that I am making more than you
or less than you. I don't want to either make
you feel bad or make myself feel bad. And I
think that that drives a lot of the anxiety that
people have, because then you look at your own home
(04:00):
and you wonder, am I supporting my family properly? Am
I good enough? Mother? Father, wife? Husband? And you look,
you look at the money that you have or that
you don't have, and you start to worry that you
are that money. But were telegraph it anyway, And especially
in today's society, we're all lying. Everybody's walking around, you know,
(04:21):
with a car they can't afford, wearing clothes that they
bought on discount, pretending that you know their designers. Whatever.
We are all putting out there in the public eye
what we want people to think, how much money we have? Yes, yeah,
So it's not like it's we're all keeping it. Appreciate America.
Another country they give titles maybe the Lord or you
(04:44):
can buy one of those on titles exactly the titles,
but the in America we give people money, so the
titles don't seem to matter. So obviously a nation, we
seem to value it. And you really can't get around
the reality t that you are short of valued by
others and by how much money you make. That does
it doesn't come up. It's a barometer. It's not fair,
(05:08):
but it's a barometer that people used to. It's a
quick scale, you know, it's like a Phyco score, right,
there's a quick idea. But but not just how much
money you make, but how how disorganized and out of
control you might be. So if you're bankrupt and much
credit cards in debt, and every family members as there's
one people. If you have enough kids, one of them
is going to be in that bucket. They're not a
bad person, they just don't understand money, which is why
(05:31):
I wanted to have both of you on. They don't
appreciate that money is a weapon. Family well not o.
Our kids aren't old enough you have to have that
much debt. But we have family members that have issues,
and so we see it. And again I'm not making values.
I don't see them as lesser than I know that
they feel lesser that because they couldn't organize themselves. But
that's your own issues, right, So Jason and I disagree
(05:52):
shocking that's what makes us such a great cost hush money.
Nothing is hush hush nothing. But Jason doesn't want to
talk out his salary or what he got for his
book advance or anything like that. But you equate it
with self worth, I don't. I've met many very very
wealthy people who are not happy. So we know that
money doesn't equate happiness or self worth. You have to
(06:14):
look inward for that. So I know my self worth
doesn't equate to money, but that's from my own journey,
that's the own and I think it's important to demystify it.
I think that if we put so much emphasis on
it being taboo, I think when you talk about it
and address it, it takes away some of that power,
just like anything else. I mean, I have more issues
(06:35):
than Vogue or Entrepreneur when you talk about your problems.
If you talk about your issues, it it takes away
some of the power over you. Don't you think, I
don't know. I think I'm I'm more in the Jason
camp um, I'm not a topic I like to talk about.
I understand why you would want to. I just I
(06:56):
think it's more binary. I think if you have enough
money that it's that should not be causing you a problem,
then your issues are separate. People always say it's thought
about the money. Well it's that's true after a certain point,
but there is definitely a place where money makes a difference.
And you know, we we've had enough a couple of
guests on the show who have grown up an abject
poverty and it absolutely affects how they see the rest
(07:18):
of the world. If I can's talk about how people
manage money, which nicol and your experiences you try to
get people to to manage money more wisely. There's some
common pitfalls you probably witness that take them in the
wrong direction. Of course, I think that when people say
they blew their budget, the first question I say is
did you even have a budget to blow? You know,
I came up with the Money School because I felt
(07:39):
like there was such a void in financial literacy, and
so I asked people to first write down their goals.
It's really important to reverse engineer your goals, you know,
figure out the life you want, and then figure out
how to get the money to live the life you want. So,
like you said, moment, you know, it's not about all
the money, all about the money, and it's not about
not about the money. Is there somewhere in between? You
(08:00):
know when people sat down with me a couple of
weeks ago and we did a boot camp around this,
and people said, you know, I just don't work for
the money. I was like, I don't know what I
can say here. You have to pay the bills. You
can't be so self righteous about it. The answer is
somewhere in between. But I think coming up with a
plan and figuring out how to get the money to
live the life you want is the first step. Because
(08:21):
people will say, hey, I just want a million dollars.
If I just had a million dollars, like life would
be great. Like what do you want to do with
that million dollars? Maybe you need more than a million dollars.
Maybe you need less. I have no idea someone that
seems so obvious almost, But people, there's kind of financial
advice floating around that I know you disagree with, and
sometimes it's inadvertent. The undermining. People can give me an example,
(08:42):
something that you would not do. I would not cut
out the morning latte. You know. You hear financial experts
say this time and again, just cut out the cut
out the coffee, and you'll saves a year. And I say,
a financial diet is a lot like a regular diet.
You talk about this all the time on the show.
If you allow yourself all indulgences, you won't end up
binging later on. So when people say to me at
(09:03):
the first sever year, hey, I cut out that latte,
lap and making it happen, I'm making it happen to
come April, come June, you know, you know, But then
I bought this Gucci purse because I was so starved
and so deprived. But I cut out that morning latte.
I'm like, well, if you just allowed for that small
indulgence the equivalent of a financial Hershey's kiss and a diet,
(09:26):
so you don't end up binging on a big old
hunk of chocolate, cake in the middle of the night
because you're so hungry and so deprived. You know, though,
I mean, I do agree. I I like what you
say there. However, I like that morning latte thing because
I think that what it's really saying is think about
how you're spending your money, because then people often don't.
They just spend. They spend, and they don't break it
(09:46):
down to the small expenses and the way that money
just disappears. Because I think for a lot of people,
money just disappears. They don't know where it went. And
the thing is that sometimes it went to the latte,
and sometimes you can't afford the latte, and sometimes you
can afford the latte if you're not spending in other ways.
But when you start getting really granular about it, you
start to recognize the habits that you have and how
changing some of those habits can make you more financially responsible.
(10:10):
So I like, I like pointing out to people that
they are spending their money in ways that they might
not even be thinking about. So would you keep a
financial journal, so to speak, so that you know every
penny that goes out of your location? Sports well, no,
maybe once a week, not every day, but you need
to know how much you're spending. This is really just
(10:30):
because caffeine really gives any problems. Uh No, I do.
I I mean I think that if you are having
that kind of challenge where you really do not know
where your money is going, then yes, creating a journal
just to see it is really valuable. It's not like
you have to do this for the rest of your life,
but just to track it and understand where it's going.
I mean, I I think about this so, I mean,
I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the lots
(10:52):
every day if I wanted it, though I don't. But
I do think about it in terms of time, because
I think that we we we spend time and money,
uh recklessly, both of them. And I found that blocking
out my time in my calendar in really really specific
ways it allowed me to manage my day and manage
my time so much more effectively. And I think that
(11:14):
you could easily translate that to money as well, that
if you're just being very conscious of how you're spending it,
you will have more control of it. More questions after
the break, So what's the best financial advice you've ever gotten?
(11:35):
Excluding with the cold lapp and making it happen by
the the best financial you know what, the best financial advice.
And this this, I mean, this is this is It
sounds like a recipe for spending. But this is the
line that that always rings in my head. So my
my dad, my dad came from a poor family. He
is he was a dentist's retired now and made made
(11:57):
a good money and supported the family. And I am
very grateful for that. And uh he he always said
he has this line which he has said to me
so many times throughout my childhood, which is what's money for?
What's money for? Right? Like don't deprive yourself. I mean
this kind of goes back to the latte I guess
in a way. But like he spends, yes, yes Popififer
(12:18):
has been on the show, um he he he talks
about it where like you know, save and then spend
for that great vacation, right um um save and then
and then support your family in ways where you know
your your family is happy and feels cared for. What's
money for? Money is for spending so long as you're
spending it responsibly. And I I bring that up a
(12:39):
lot with my wife because my wife is more concerned
than I am about the way that we spend money. Um,
like I feel like we're making enough we can go
and enjoy the expensive dinner. We can go and enjoy
this vacation. Should be like I don't know, should we?
And I always say, what's money for? Why are we
working this hard to make this money if not to
spend it? Nicole, you've taught me over the years that
there are things we can goociate for that I did
(13:01):
not think we're negotiat a bowl. Everything is negotiatable because
again in Turkey, if you walk into a store to
the bazaar and you pay what they say, they're insulted.
Now that they're insulting, not you, because many things you
can do that at Sex, well we've done that for
Like you go to hotel. I don't think you can
know you do? You go to hotel its tet night,
(13:21):
you're gonna check in and you said you have what
you know, what rooms do you have? But who's in
the suite? Nobody? So that you have partial inventory there
because no one's coming in at ten o'clock tonight. So
I'll pay you half what you normally charge, which is
more money from me than you would have gotten for
the room you're gonna put me in, and everyone's happy
and there's no hurt feelings. And in Turkey again, if
you negotiate, you make friends with people you negotiate, you
(13:41):
don't call them an idiot and insult them. So what
we be negotiating it? How do we do? Lessons from
the Bazarez real negotiator. Yeah, you know it's it's your
hard earned money. You might as well fight for it.
So while I say get that latte or the equivalent
of a latte, it's not about the latte, it's whatever
does it for you. Nobody at a coffee shop. Jason
(14:03):
is so literal? Is it drive you crazy? He's like
the hardcore I have kids, I am, you know, more
concerned the normal family guy. She talks about it like
it's some foreign things in Chile and having all sort
Is it called hush money because you say, Jason, hush
frequently time. Do you guys have that at home too?
You have your own burden? Hush? Yes? I get that
(14:26):
quite There were eyebrows raised there. You know. She calls
me the Meddler. She bought me a Medler cape superhero
villain and love that someone came to me and said, oh,
just said that you wanted the downstairs cleaned. All the
boots are gone, all the coats are gone. You basically,
(14:47):
I can't wait for him to go back to work. Frankly, amazingly,
this is gonna catch you. But the winter boots and
the winter parkas are all hanging at the h as
they walked by it every day. You're called nagging unfinished tasks.
Now there's a task. There was never a task. Great
raincoats and mud puss anyway, Yes, so he's a meddler
(15:08):
and they're all sold. By the way, this is what
happens in our house. I feel like we're witnessing something else,
by the way. And there's great Turkish food there too, people,
Turkish people, Turkish food, all the best things, you know,
what you learn, you know in Turkey and in a
lot of the Middle East. I mean, my family's first
(15:31):
generation American too, and um, you know, my family grew
up in Israel and immigrated here, and that's that's sort
of the culture. But if you don't ask, the answer
is always no. Right, So just while you should allow
yourself whatever that small indulgence is for you, because that's
why you work. I mean, it's there's a middle ground
between thinking you're gonna live forever and thinking you're going
(15:51):
to die tomorrow. There's that sweet spot, right, and that's
where your money philosophy, I think should live. So when
you're negotiating, you know you miss hundred percent of chances
you don't take. I don't know who that was, Wayne
Gretzky or Marilyn Monroe or whoever that's been associated with,
but just like you can negotiate for that hotel sweet
because you had a lot of leverage in that. Actually,
Wayne Gretzky was don't be where the puck is, be
(16:14):
where it's gonna be. You tell me that the urinal once,
by the way, true story and true story and what
the what that was Jordan was, wasn't what Jordan said
that I missed every shy I didn't take. That's right.
And you know when I was on the show, I
negotiated a woman's APR. I was in her ear as
like a Serrano diverse rack type character, negotiating her cell
phone bill at the store, telling her what to say,
(16:35):
being like a dog on a bone, trying to get
more and more. Because there's services that do that because
some of us are just wretched. Like I will go
to the bazaar and then I'll ask them tell me
the price, and I'll say, is their tax with that?
So the opposite of a negotiator are then' see you,
I'm sure the worst, the worst negotiator that's actually a
really good big I'm just wondering, is there someone who
can get down or you know, call me start up
(17:00):
a business. No, there should be someone who could, because
a lot of people don't know how to negotiate their
bad I've done uncomfortable. I've done that for people that
we know. I've called up the different the five credit
cards they've gotten dead on, and I said, this person
of default and uh, or I'll pay you half what
you got. I'll pay you what they actually borrowed, not
(17:22):
the user interest rates that you've been charging when they
bought their textbooks for water Dodgers, and not nine thousand
dollars to debt. And they negotiate. So what you're saying,
you do not have time to open this business. What
you're saying, this business does not exist at the moment.
I don't know about the just pure negotiation, but certainly,
I mean there's a million types of financial advisors. And
also there's a lot of technology entering this field now,
(17:43):
where there are apps that are intelligently analyzing your spending
and identifying ways that you can improve that will budget
for you. So there's a lot that you can but
they won't get on the phone and how do you
do that? But that is a great tactic. You'll say
I have a certain amount of money, take it or
leave it, basically, and this happens for medical debt too.
(18:04):
In a lot of cases you can say like, hey,
I have half like smelly later you want money or
you don't want money, And so in a lot of
times they'll throw you a bone versus losing you as
a customer, or they'll throw you a bone versus getting nada.
How do you know how much to ask for? You
used to based on what you got to start high?
Start high, Yeah, and I think that you know. You
(18:24):
can also get other features, So you can call your
bill collectors, your cell phone provider, your cable provider, you know,
once a quarter, twice a year, whatever it is, and
you can get better features if it's not actually money off,
so you can get higher speeds, you can get an iPod.
I just talked to someone who got an iPad and
you know whatever, if you don't ask, then you don't
(18:46):
get another That's true. You know. That was the very
first thing that I ever did to just experiment with this,
to see if you can just go out into the
world and say, actually, I would like to pay you
less money and that they will say yes. Um. I
called my my cable TV provider and I said I
would like to spend less money. Then I was I
was just like competitor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I did.
I was, I was like, I think that I'm spending
too much on you, and I know that I can
go elsewhere and get less or I could just live
(19:08):
with less because I don't really need this service, So
what can you do for me? And what they always
do is they like disappear for a few minutes and
they come back with some special that they happen to
be running and they offer you that the manager does
and they could just you could just keep doing that.
I do it like once a year now. It's amazing. Yeah.
There was actually an awesome class at Stanford Business School,
I believe, and I'm all about the n b A
(19:30):
of the School of Hard Knocks, but they actually had
a class where you would have to go into a
store wherever, I don't know if it was Sacks, but
you had to leave with something for free. And I
think that's just a great life lesson, right, because you
have to get something, whether it's you talk your way
into that, and that's what so much big. Would you
buy something and get a free gift with it or
did you have to come first something free? That exactly
(19:56):
the paper with a bill in it, all right, So
Jason was a a nice survey for forms recently. Yeah,
that looked at I don't I don't discuss my competitors.
I just provide masking so you can you can diss
magazine that different and arguing that millennials the worst than
any other age group of managing their finance. And think
we're talking to two millennials right now. I'm a little older,
(20:19):
I think than a millennial. I'm thirty eight, you're millennial.
But what is the deal? What is the problem with
late mortgage payments and not paying the credit cards and
overdrawing accounts? What is what's a disconnect amongst the millennials
and finances? So I have to mount a vigorous defense
for millennials here, I absolutely despise any any articulation of
(20:42):
millennials as some kind of different, weird species that acts
and thinks unlike any previous generation. In fact, if you
go back throughout history, I have a podcast called Past
My Archive, another one where I dig intoitive pest archive
right where I dig into repetitive fears throughout history. We
look at why people resist things that today we think
of his commonplace. I just did an episode called Kids
(21:03):
These Days in which I tracked back things that people
say today about millennials to at least ancient Rome. So
it is that repetitive, So listen. There is But but
if you if you are going to look at some
hard data, and there is an actual data set which
I haven't seen here is saying that millennials are more
in depth than previous generations. Well, let's not think about
(21:26):
this as being some kind of flaw in the brains
of people who happened to be born in a certain year.
But instead, let's look at the economy that they happened
to come into. Because millennials entered the workforce in a recession,
in a terrible recession, and that changed not only I
think the way that they had to think about money
and the access that they had to money, but also
the way that they approached their careers. The reason I mean,
(21:48):
I'm at Entrepreneur magazine and I see an unbelievable boom
in entrepreneurship and that spirit, that spirit of self reliance
in young people, and I think that's because they graduated
in to a time in which that world of getting
a job at one company and they're just rising to
the top for an entire career just didn't exist anymore.
(22:08):
You have to go out and build things yourself. But
you know what, when you build things yourself, everyone at
this table knows it's rocky and it's hard for a while,
and you're not gonna get it right, and you're gonna
end up in debt. A lot of you are going
to end up in debt. And I think that is
what explains it. It is not the people, It is
the economy. Social media that could be part of it
as well. Nicole, Yeah, it's certainly there's a lot of
(22:30):
envy on social media, and we've done a ton of
stories around that. But I also go to the defense
of millennials. Tracking like Jason and I agree on this one,
you know, going through that rocky time. I think investing
in yourself ultimately will pay more dividends later on. And
sometimes you have to get into the you know, the red,
so to speak, to get into the black. And I
(22:52):
think that millennials are actually given a bad rap. And
I think growing up through the recession or seeing you know,
our parents generation and having less equity in their house
than fifty years ago, going through joblessness and unemployment and underemployment,
I think that instilled the fear of God and a
lot of millennials, and I think that there's more caution
actually of not getting into that situation and repeating their
(23:15):
parents history. There's lots more when we come back, all right,
So talking about money is often uncomfortable conversation. You guys
would go on there, you're not gonna hush up. Now
we're gonna let's get uncomfortable. People get uncomfortable to the
(23:35):
biggest many questions from our viewers are we ready ready?
Should marry couples really combine their finances And if you're
gonna do it, is there a good way of doing it? Yes?
I think yours mine and hours and then having the
hours account be waited. So if somebody makes, you know,
hundred thousand dollars, and somebody makes ten dollars, you're putting
ten percent or whatever, and that's a different actual dollar amount,
(23:57):
So it feels though the same. All right, what would
expends though? Because if you're married and you have a home,
I don't know what your wife does for a living,
but she's she's a freelance writer. I make more money
than her. Okay, so are you gonna make Are you
gonna divvy up the housing expenses accordingly? No? I mean,
I'll tell you what we do. We came up with
this crazy system that just happens to work for us.
We maintained our own individual bank accounts, but we put
(24:20):
each other on those bank accounts so we can have
access to it if we needed to. But we don't
like I don't go into her bank account. She doesn't
come into mind, and so we treat those checking accounts
as functionally separate. But we don't itemize. So I will
buy things, she'll buy things for the house. Whatever it is.
We don't like track it. So we have what are
really separate finances in a way, except that we're treating
(24:40):
them sort of like the same money. It's right. It's
like it doesn't really make sense, but it just makes
us little good check for the mortgage or the rent
um that one comes out of the mortgage, that one
comes out of me that I'll look up gonnave this.
She's gonna pick up childcare. She often gets the groceries.
I often get the utilities. Yeah, we just sort of
like split it up like that, and then we and
(25:01):
then we we opened up a Fidelity investment account where
we put our kind of excess money and then that's
our that's our growth, that's ours in Nicole's parlance. No,
I was just gonna say, what do you do with kids?
Because that as a whole another expense, the trust account,
the trust accounts for the kids that they've created. I
think what Lisa's is Lisa's in What's moments as Lisa's Yes,
(25:23):
old school. Actually, it's just I'm gonna say this. We
have talked abouts of the air. So a couple of
years ago, I was giving Lisa a hard time because
you know, she never actually deposited money, I said, into
the account, and I asked her. I was trying to
query her about if she knew how to deposit a check.
That's so happy now. And then all of her daughters
(25:45):
jumped on me and said, you have no idea how
to withdraw money from the account. You don't even know
how to deposit. Your secretary to deposit. But actually they're true,
they're not not. Neither of those are true. My checks
and your checks are both deposited by Donna. Yes, so
come on. But the dup shot was I didn't know
the code. That couldn't you know, I didn't know how
to do it. Thanks me for money. He's like, too
(26:05):
many cash do not know how to use an ATM machine.
But in our generation we married thirty or four years.
Now it comes this next question, so I'll get to
it in a second. But the money was always together.
I never I never tried to, never thought about it
because it was only one account. Didn't matter what checks.
This would almost always right to checks. She had no money,
(26:26):
negative money. He was still in school, but but she
was always right to check him in today and so
but it was a different culture. That's why the mindsets are.
And I took my own kids wore millennials. Some of
them are older to be millennials. But I think that
the other person regardless of who's actually writing the checks.
Needs to have some transparency into the past words and
(26:46):
knowing where accounts are because God forbid, if something happens
to your spouse, regardless, you just want to know where
the you know where the bodies are varying. Has time
to talk to your partner, your upcoming partner about finance
after sex? After sex? Really right? I would think before sex,
because if guys distracted interesting and you control all the okay,
(27:10):
that's how I man gonna happen. When to talk about
I think that having the talk is something that makes
a lot of couples uncomfortable. I think you frame it
around what your goals are, so it's not an interrogation
around like what's your credit score? By the way, I've
had first dates in my life where men think that
I'm somehow attracted to this, and so they'll ask me
(27:32):
to write credit score. That's like, not, that's too much.
But if you say, hey, baby, you know, grab a
glass of wine. What are your goals? They don't need
to be the same. They just need to be compatible.
Do you want to vacation every winter? Do you want
a housekeeper? Do you want these types of things out
of your life because those things cost money. So alcohol
(27:52):
I think it's it's a rolling conversation. Um I really
I like saying you don't want to you don't want
to raise the temperature, you don't want to say Okay,
now this is the moment where we're gonna have the
serious conversation, because then everyone gets tense and you feel
like there's like cards that you have to put on
the table. I think that this is something where I mean, listen,
there are times where people will have a piece of
information that they're very nervous to share with their significant other.
(28:16):
Like for example, on our show, we talked to this
this woman who had like a hundred thousand dollars in
student loan debt that would reveal that yet to her
her boyfriend now husband. She was very very nervous, like
in tears nervous to tell him that. And so at
that point, you just have you have to find a
moment in which I think both of you are feeling
comfortable and close and like it's you know, it's like
you know that time when it's when it's time to
(28:39):
like you feel like you've built trust. There's an opening
in this conversation where I can tell you something. I
think that's that's that moment, it's quiet, it's at home,
that's right, throw some of that on. But if you
don't say it, it's financial infidelity. I mean, that's infidelity. Yeah,
if you're not disclosing that, or if you owe somebody
money and you're getting into a relationship to see yeah,
(29:01):
I think that you need to do it in a
way in which you don't feel to yourself that you
are holding something or hiding something that you know. We
all know when we've reached the time where something should
be released. And if you have that internal feeling like
you know what, I'm holding onto this too long, it's
getting to like the red zone here, say it, find
the time to say it, just text to enter your
(29:21):
phone off. Thank you very very much. Hush Money name
of the popular podcast. We're joining it ourselves least and
I will be there sharing your intimate secrets. Thanks very much, guys,
thank you, thank you,
I think that the reason why people are afraid to
talk about money is because we equit money with self worth,
and so when we are seeing ourselves struggle financially, we
feel like we are failures, and we compare ourselves and
how we do financially to other people, and we think
that the people who are making more money are simply
better than us. Hi. I'm doctor Oz and this is
(00:48):
the Doctor Oz podcast. Money, It's stressful, It's offten, a
taboo topic that makes many people uncomfortable. They don't even
talk about it. But my next guests say, that's the
very problem when the biggest reasons why so many people
are in debt and suffer from money and zodies so
today that no topics gonna be off limits. Will take
them all on New York Times best selling author and
(01:08):
good friend Nicole that been making it happen an Entrepreneur
magazine editor in chief Jason Phife for who just honored
Michelle Phife for your cousin or sister who she knows
we have no relation. I'm trying to help you. You
don't have to answer all the questions, Jason. Anyway, Jason
didn't put the shelf Fife for on the cover of
his magazine, Right Fife for making it happen. It's making
(01:29):
it happen. And I hear the debate to touches findance
topics from their brand new podcast Hush Money. It's very
intriguing title, what's the problem with money? Why is it
such a sensitive topic? I think we will talk about
everything at the dinner table before we talk about money.
You know, if you go to dinner with girlfriends or
your friends, you know, we'll talk about bikini waxes and
(01:49):
sexy time and everything. And then all of a sudden,
I say to my friends, so what's in your bank
account or how much are you making this year? And
it's crickets And I'm like, hey, lady, you just told
me about your who ha, Why are we so now
thinking money is off limits? And so I think it's
the language that keeps a lot of people out of
the conversation that sounds intimidating. Do you like, in that
(02:12):
same circle of girls, would you say, by the way,
I just made the X number of dollars on this book,
and I got to this investment. You do, yeah, I
go first, So I play the game of I'll show
you mine if you show me worse, and I do
that in my books. I actually talk about what I
made for my book in my books because I put
my money where my mouth is, quite literally. I knew
people would ask reading the book, like this girl talks
(02:33):
about money in the book, how much did she make?
So I was like, I didn't even ask the publisher.
I was like, okay, well here was my advance, Here's
how much I made at CNBC. Here's how much I
made at CNN. Yeah. I read that and I thought
I need to get into television business. Being both businesses,
I can assure you're right. So, Jason, difference between debt
stress and money and Zodi, what's through dvich Oh my gosh,
(02:56):
what you're like? Really just cutting too? I feel like
suddenly walking from last year, I toll those from you.
I didn't think there was a huge difference a debt
stress and money anxiety. Well, let me let me back
into that if I can. I think that the I
think that the reason why people are afraid to talk
about money is because we equate money with self worth,
(03:17):
and so when we are seeing ourselves struggle financially, we
feel like we are failures, and we compare ourselves and
how we do financially to other people, and we think
that the people who are making more money are simply
better than us. That's something that's been drilled into us,
and I think that that drives a lot of people crazy,
especially if you're not making a lot of money and
(03:39):
if you're in a mixed financial group. Which is the
reason why I always have a trouble talking about money
with friends, is because I feel like I either don't
want to reveal that I am making more than you
or less than you. I don't want to either make
you feel bad or make myself feel bad. And I
think that that drives a lot of the anxiety that
people have, because then you look at your own home
(04:00):
and you wonder, am I supporting my family properly? Am
I good enough? Mother? Father, wife? Husband? And you look,
you look at the money that you have or that
you don't have, and you start to worry that you
are that money. But were telegraph it anyway, And especially
in today's society, we're all lying. Everybody's walking around, you know,
(04:21):
with a car they can't afford, wearing clothes that they
bought on discount, pretending that you know their designers. Whatever.
We are all putting out there in the public eye
what we want people to think, how much money we have? Yes, yeah,
So it's not like it's we're all keeping it. Appreciate America.
Another country they give titles maybe the Lord or you
(04:44):
can buy one of those on titles exactly the titles,
but the in America we give people money, so the
titles don't seem to matter. So obviously a nation, we
seem to value it. And you really can't get around
the reality t that you are short of valued by
others and by how much money you make. That does
it doesn't come up. It's a barometer. It's not fair,
(05:08):
but it's a barometer that people used to. It's a
quick scale, you know, it's like a Phyco score, right,
there's a quick idea. But but not just how much
money you make, but how how disorganized and out of
control you might be. So if you're bankrupt and much
credit cards in debt, and every family members as there's
one people. If you have enough kids, one of them
is going to be in that bucket. They're not a
bad person, they just don't understand money, which is why
(05:31):
I wanted to have both of you on. They don't
appreciate that money is a weapon. Family well not o.
Our kids aren't old enough you have to have that
much debt. But we have family members that have issues,
and so we see it. And again I'm not making values.
I don't see them as lesser than I know that
they feel lesser that because they couldn't organize themselves. But
that's your own issues, right, So Jason and I disagree
(05:52):
shocking that's what makes us such a great cost hush money.
Nothing is hush hush nothing. But Jason doesn't want to
talk out his salary or what he got for his
book advance or anything like that. But you equate it
with self worth, I don't. I've met many very very
wealthy people who are not happy. So we know that
money doesn't equate happiness or self worth. You have to
(06:14):
look inward for that. So I know my self worth
doesn't equate to money, but that's from my own journey,
that's the own and I think it's important to demystify it.
I think that if we put so much emphasis on
it being taboo, I think when you talk about it
and address it, it takes away some of that power,
just like anything else. I mean, I have more issues
(06:35):
than Vogue or Entrepreneur when you talk about your problems.
If you talk about your issues, it it takes away
some of the power over you. Don't you think, I
don't know. I think I'm I'm more in the Jason
camp um, I'm not a topic I like to talk about.
I understand why you would want to. I just I
(06:56):
think it's more binary. I think if you have enough
money that it's that should not be causing you a problem,
then your issues are separate. People always say it's thought
about the money. Well it's that's true after a certain point,
but there is definitely a place where money makes a difference.
And you know, we we've had enough a couple of
guests on the show who have grown up an abject
poverty and it absolutely affects how they see the rest
(07:18):
of the world. If I can's talk about how people
manage money, which nicol and your experiences you try to
get people to to manage money more wisely. There's some
common pitfalls you probably witness that take them in the
wrong direction. Of course, I think that when people say
they blew their budget, the first question I say is
did you even have a budget to blow? You know,
I came up with the Money School because I felt
(07:39):
like there was such a void in financial literacy, and
so I asked people to first write down their goals.
It's really important to reverse engineer your goals, you know,
figure out the life you want, and then figure out
how to get the money to live the life you want. So,
like you said, moment, you know, it's not about all
the money, all about the money, and it's not about
not about the money. Is there somewhere in between? You
(08:00):
know when people sat down with me a couple of
weeks ago and we did a boot camp around this,
and people said, you know, I just don't work for
the money. I was like, I don't know what I
can say here. You have to pay the bills. You
can't be so self righteous about it. The answer is
somewhere in between. But I think coming up with a
plan and figuring out how to get the money to
live the life you want is the first step. Because
(08:21):
people will say, hey, I just want a million dollars.
If I just had a million dollars, like life would
be great. Like what do you want to do with
that million dollars? Maybe you need more than a million dollars.
Maybe you need less. I have no idea someone that
seems so obvious almost, But people, there's kind of financial
advice floating around that I know you disagree with, and
sometimes it's inadvertent. The undermining. People can give me an example,
(08:42):
something that you would not do. I would not cut
out the morning latte. You know. You hear financial experts
say this time and again, just cut out the cut
out the coffee, and you'll saves a year. And I say,
a financial diet is a lot like a regular diet.
You talk about this all the time on the show.
If you allow yourself all indulgences, you won't end up
binging later on. So when people say to me at
(09:03):
the first sever year, hey, I cut out that latte,
lap and making it happen, I'm making it happen to
come April, come June, you know, you know, But then
I bought this Gucci purse because I was so starved
and so deprived. But I cut out that morning latte.
I'm like, well, if you just allowed for that small
indulgence the equivalent of a financial Hershey's kiss and a diet,
(09:26):
so you don't end up binging on a big old
hunk of chocolate, cake in the middle of the night
because you're so hungry and so deprived. You know, though,
I mean, I do agree. I I like what you
say there. However, I like that morning latte thing because
I think that what it's really saying is think about
how you're spending your money, because then people often don't.
They just spend. They spend, and they don't break it
(09:46):
down to the small expenses and the way that money
just disappears. Because I think for a lot of people,
money just disappears. They don't know where it went. And
the thing is that sometimes it went to the latte,
and sometimes you can't afford the latte, and sometimes you
can afford the latte if you're not spending in other ways.
But when you start getting really granular about it, you
start to recognize the habits that you have and how
changing some of those habits can make you more financially responsible.
(10:10):
So I like, I like pointing out to people that
they are spending their money in ways that they might
not even be thinking about. So would you keep a
financial journal, so to speak, so that you know every
penny that goes out of your location? Sports well, no,
maybe once a week, not every day, but you need
to know how much you're spending. This is really just
(10:30):
because caffeine really gives any problems. Uh No, I do.
I I mean I think that if you are having
that kind of challenge where you really do not know
where your money is going, then yes, creating a journal
just to see it is really valuable. It's not like
you have to do this for the rest of your life,
but just to track it and understand where it's going.
I mean, I I think about this so, I mean,
I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the lots
(10:52):
every day if I wanted it, though I don't. But
I do think about it in terms of time, because
I think that we we we spend time and money,
uh recklessly, both of them. And I found that blocking
out my time in my calendar in really really specific
ways it allowed me to manage my day and manage
my time so much more effectively. And I think that
(11:14):
you could easily translate that to money as well, that
if you're just being very conscious of how you're spending it,
you will have more control of it. More questions after
the break, So what's the best financial advice you've ever gotten?
(11:35):
Excluding with the cold lapp and making it happen by
the the best financial you know what, the best financial advice.
And this this, I mean, this is this is It
sounds like a recipe for spending. But this is the
line that that always rings in my head. So my
my dad, my dad came from a poor family. He
is he was a dentist's retired now and made made
(11:57):
a good money and supported the family. And I am
very grateful for that. And uh he he always said
he has this line which he has said to me
so many times throughout my childhood, which is what's money for?
What's money for? Right? Like don't deprive yourself. I mean
this kind of goes back to the latte I guess
in a way. But like he spends, yes, yes Popififer
(12:18):
has been on the show, um he he he talks
about it where like you know, save and then spend
for that great vacation, right um um save and then
and then support your family in ways where you know
your your family is happy and feels cared for. What's
money for? Money is for spending so long as you're
spending it responsibly. And I I bring that up a
(12:39):
lot with my wife because my wife is more concerned
than I am about the way that we spend money. Um,
like I feel like we're making enough we can go
and enjoy the expensive dinner. We can go and enjoy
this vacation. Should be like I don't know, should we?
And I always say, what's money for? Why are we
working this hard to make this money if not to
spend it? Nicole, you've taught me over the years that
there are things we can goociate for that I did
(13:01):
not think we're negotiat a bowl. Everything is negotiatable because
again in Turkey, if you walk into a store to
the bazaar and you pay what they say, they're insulted.
Now that they're insulting, not you, because many things you
can do that at Sex, well we've done that for
Like you go to hotel. I don't think you can
know you do? You go to hotel its tet night,
(13:21):
you're gonna check in and you said you have what
you know, what rooms do you have? But who's in
the suite? Nobody? So that you have partial inventory there
because no one's coming in at ten o'clock tonight. So
I'll pay you half what you normally charge, which is
more money from me than you would have gotten for
the room you're gonna put me in, and everyone's happy
and there's no hurt feelings. And in Turkey again, if
you negotiate, you make friends with people you negotiate, you
(13:41):
don't call them an idiot and insult them. So what
we be negotiating it? How do we do? Lessons from
the Bazarez real negotiator. Yeah, you know it's it's your
hard earned money. You might as well fight for it.
So while I say get that latte or the equivalent
of a latte, it's not about the latte, it's whatever
does it for you. Nobody at a coffee shop. Jason
(14:03):
is so literal? Is it drive you crazy? He's like
the hardcore I have kids, I am, you know, more
concerned the normal family guy. She talks about it like
it's some foreign things in Chile and having all sort
Is it called hush money because you say, Jason, hush
frequently time. Do you guys have that at home too?
You have your own burden? Hush? Yes? I get that
(14:26):
quite There were eyebrows raised there. You know. She calls
me the Meddler. She bought me a Medler cape superhero
villain and love that someone came to me and said, oh,
just said that you wanted the downstairs cleaned. All the
boots are gone, all the coats are gone. You basically,
(14:47):
I can't wait for him to go back to work. Frankly, amazingly,
this is gonna catch you. But the winter boots and
the winter parkas are all hanging at the h as
they walked by it every day. You're called nagging unfinished tasks.
Now there's a task. There was never a task. Great
raincoats and mud puss anyway, Yes, so he's a meddler
(15:08):
and they're all sold. By the way, this is what
happens in our house. I feel like we're witnessing something else,
by the way. And there's great Turkish food there too, people,
Turkish people, Turkish food, all the best things, you know,
what you learn, you know in Turkey and in a
lot of the Middle East. I mean, my family's first
(15:31):
generation American too, and um, you know, my family grew
up in Israel and immigrated here, and that's that's sort
of the culture. But if you don't ask, the answer
is always no. Right, So just while you should allow
yourself whatever that small indulgence is for you, because that's
why you work. I mean, it's there's a middle ground
between thinking you're gonna live forever and thinking you're going
(15:51):
to die tomorrow. There's that sweet spot, right, and that's
where your money philosophy, I think should live. So when
you're negotiating, you know you miss hundred percent of chances
you don't take. I don't know who that was, Wayne
Gretzky or Marilyn Monroe or whoever that's been associated with,
but just like you can negotiate for that hotel sweet
because you had a lot of leverage in that. Actually,
Wayne Gretzky was don't be where the puck is, be
(16:14):
where it's gonna be. You tell me that the urinal once,
by the way, true story and true story and what
the what that was Jordan was, wasn't what Jordan said
that I missed every shy I didn't take. That's right.
And you know when I was on the show, I
negotiated a woman's APR. I was in her ear as
like a Serrano diverse rack type character, negotiating her cell
phone bill at the store, telling her what to say,
(16:35):
being like a dog on a bone, trying to get
more and more. Because there's services that do that because
some of us are just wretched. Like I will go
to the bazaar and then I'll ask them tell me
the price, and I'll say, is their tax with that?
So the opposite of a negotiator are then' see you,
I'm sure the worst, the worst negotiator that's actually a
really good big I'm just wondering, is there someone who
can get down or you know, call me start up
(17:00):
a business. No, there should be someone who could, because
a lot of people don't know how to negotiate their
bad I've done uncomfortable. I've done that for people that
we know. I've called up the different the five credit
cards they've gotten dead on, and I said, this person
of default and uh, or I'll pay you half what
you got. I'll pay you what they actually borrowed, not
(17:22):
the user interest rates that you've been charging when they
bought their textbooks for water Dodgers, and not nine thousand
dollars to debt. And they negotiate. So what you're saying,
you do not have time to open this business. What
you're saying, this business does not exist at the moment.
I don't know about the just pure negotiation, but certainly,
I mean there's a million types of financial advisors. And
also there's a lot of technology entering this field now,
(17:43):
where there are apps that are intelligently analyzing your spending
and identifying ways that you can improve that will budget
for you. So there's a lot that you can but
they won't get on the phone and how do you
do that? But that is a great tactic. You'll say
I have a certain amount of money, take it or
leave it, basically, and this happens for medical debt too.
(18:04):
In a lot of cases you can say like, hey,
I have half like smelly later you want money or
you don't want money, And so in a lot of
times they'll throw you a bone versus losing you as
a customer, or they'll throw you a bone versus getting nada.
How do you know how much to ask for? You
used to based on what you got to start high?
Start high, Yeah, and I think that you know. You
(18:24):
can also get other features, So you can call your
bill collectors, your cell phone provider, your cable provider, you know,
once a quarter, twice a year, whatever it is, and
you can get better features if it's not actually money off,
so you can get higher speeds, you can get an iPod.
I just talked to someone who got an iPad and
you know whatever, if you don't ask, then you don't
(18:46):
get another That's true. You know. That was the very
first thing that I ever did to just experiment with this,
to see if you can just go out into the
world and say, actually, I would like to pay you
less money and that they will say yes. Um. I
called my my cable TV provider and I said I
would like to spend less money. Then I was I
was just like competitor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I did.
I was, I was like, I think that I'm spending
too much on you, and I know that I can
go elsewhere and get less or I could just live
(19:08):
with less because I don't really need this service, So
what can you do for me? And what they always
do is they like disappear for a few minutes and
they come back with some special that they happen to
be running and they offer you that the manager does
and they could just you could just keep doing that.
I do it like once a year now. It's amazing. Yeah.
There was actually an awesome class at Stanford Business School,
I believe, and I'm all about the n b A
(19:30):
of the School of Hard Knocks, but they actually had
a class where you would have to go into a
store wherever, I don't know if it was Sacks, but
you had to leave with something for free. And I
think that's just a great life lesson, right, because you
have to get something, whether it's you talk your way
into that, and that's what so much big. Would you
buy something and get a free gift with it or
did you have to come first something free? That exactly
(19:56):
the paper with a bill in it, all right, So
Jason was a a nice survey for forms recently. Yeah,
that looked at I don't I don't discuss my competitors.
I just provide masking so you can you can diss
magazine that different and arguing that millennials the worst than
any other age group of managing their finance. And think
we're talking to two millennials right now. I'm a little older,
(20:19):
I think than a millennial. I'm thirty eight, you're millennial.
But what is the deal? What is the problem with
late mortgage payments and not paying the credit cards and
overdrawing accounts? What is what's a disconnect amongst the millennials
and finances? So I have to mount a vigorous defense
for millennials here, I absolutely despise any any articulation of
(20:42):
millennials as some kind of different, weird species that acts
and thinks unlike any previous generation. In fact, if you
go back throughout history, I have a podcast called Past
My Archive, another one where I dig intoitive pest archive
right where I dig into repetitive fears throughout history. We
look at why people resist things that today we think
of his commonplace. I just did an episode called Kids
(21:03):
These Days in which I tracked back things that people
say today about millennials to at least ancient Rome. So
it is that repetitive, So listen. There is But but
if you if you are going to look at some
hard data, and there is an actual data set which
I haven't seen here is saying that millennials are more
in depth than previous generations. Well, let's not think about
(21:26):
this as being some kind of flaw in the brains
of people who happened to be born in a certain year.
But instead, let's look at the economy that they happened
to come into. Because millennials entered the workforce in a recession,
in a terrible recession, and that changed not only I
think the way that they had to think about money
and the access that they had to money, but also
the way that they approached their careers. The reason I mean,
(21:48):
I'm at Entrepreneur magazine and I see an unbelievable boom
in entrepreneurship and that spirit, that spirit of self reliance
in young people, and I think that's because they graduated
in to a time in which that world of getting
a job at one company and they're just rising to
the top for an entire career just didn't exist anymore.
(22:08):
You have to go out and build things yourself. But
you know what, when you build things yourself, everyone at
this table knows it's rocky and it's hard for a while,
and you're not gonna get it right, and you're gonna
end up in debt. A lot of you are going
to end up in debt. And I think that is
what explains it. It is not the people, It is
the economy. Social media that could be part of it
as well. Nicole, Yeah, it's certainly there's a lot of
(22:30):
envy on social media, and we've done a ton of
stories around that. But I also go to the defense
of millennials. Tracking like Jason and I agree on this one,
you know, going through that rocky time. I think investing
in yourself ultimately will pay more dividends later on. And
sometimes you have to get into the you know, the red,
so to speak, to get into the black. And I
(22:52):
think that millennials are actually given a bad rap. And
I think growing up through the recession or seeing you know,
our parents generation and having less equity in their house
than fifty years ago, going through joblessness and unemployment and underemployment,
I think that instilled the fear of God and a
lot of millennials, and I think that there's more caution
actually of not getting into that situation and repeating their
(23:15):
parents history. There's lots more when we come back, all right,
So talking about money is often uncomfortable conversation. You guys
would go on there, you're not gonna hush up. Now
we're gonna let's get uncomfortable. People get uncomfortable to the
(23:35):
biggest many questions from our viewers are we ready ready?
Should marry couples really combine their finances And if you're
gonna do it, is there a good way of doing it? Yes?
I think yours mine and hours and then having the
hours account be waited. So if somebody makes, you know,
hundred thousand dollars, and somebody makes ten dollars, you're putting
ten percent or whatever, and that's a different actual dollar amount,
(23:57):
So it feels though the same. All right, what would
expends though? Because if you're married and you have a home,
I don't know what your wife does for a living,
but she's she's a freelance writer. I make more money
than her. Okay, so are you gonna make Are you
gonna divvy up the housing expenses accordingly? No? I mean,
I'll tell you what we do. We came up with
this crazy system that just happens to work for us.
We maintained our own individual bank accounts, but we put
(24:20):
each other on those bank accounts so we can have
access to it if we needed to. But we don't
like I don't go into her bank account. She doesn't
come into mind, and so we treat those checking accounts
as functionally separate. But we don't itemize. So I will
buy things, she'll buy things for the house. Whatever it is.
We don't like track it. So we have what are
really separate finances in a way, except that we're treating
(24:40):
them sort of like the same money. It's right. It's
like it doesn't really make sense, but it just makes
us little good check for the mortgage or the rent
um that one comes out of the mortgage, that one
comes out of me that I'll look up gonnave this.
She's gonna pick up childcare. She often gets the groceries.
I often get the utilities. Yeah, we just sort of
like split it up like that, and then we and
(25:01):
then we we opened up a Fidelity investment account where
we put our kind of excess money and then that's
our that's our growth, that's ours in Nicole's parlance. No,
I was just gonna say, what do you do with kids?
Because that as a whole another expense, the trust account,
the trust accounts for the kids that they've created. I
think what Lisa's is Lisa's in What's moments as Lisa's Yes,
(25:23):
old school. Actually, it's just I'm gonna say this. We
have talked abouts of the air. So a couple of
years ago, I was giving Lisa a hard time because
you know, she never actually deposited money, I said, into
the account, and I asked her. I was trying to
query her about if she knew how to deposit a check.
That's so happy now. And then all of her daughters
(25:45):
jumped on me and said, you have no idea how
to withdraw money from the account. You don't even know
how to deposit. Your secretary to deposit. But actually they're true,
they're not not. Neither of those are true. My checks
and your checks are both deposited by Donna. Yes, so
come on. But the dup shot was I didn't know
the code. That couldn't you know, I didn't know how
to do it. Thanks me for money. He's like, too
(26:05):
many cash do not know how to use an ATM machine.
But in our generation we married thirty or four years.
Now it comes this next question, so I'll get to
it in a second. But the money was always together.
I never I never tried to, never thought about it
because it was only one account. Didn't matter what checks.
This would almost always right to checks. She had no money,
(26:26):
negative money. He was still in school, but but she
was always right to check him in today and so
but it was a different culture. That's why the mindsets are.
And I took my own kids wore millennials. Some of
them are older to be millennials. But I think that
the other person regardless of who's actually writing the checks.
Needs to have some transparency into the past words and
(26:46):
knowing where accounts are because God forbid, if something happens
to your spouse, regardless, you just want to know where
the you know where the bodies are varying. Has time
to talk to your partner, your upcoming partner about finance
after sex? After sex? Really right? I would think before sex,
because if guys distracted interesting and you control all the okay,
(27:10):
that's how I man gonna happen. When to talk about
I think that having the talk is something that makes
a lot of couples uncomfortable. I think you frame it
around what your goals are, so it's not an interrogation
around like what's your credit score? By the way, I've
had first dates in my life where men think that
I'm somehow attracted to this, and so they'll ask me
(27:32):
to write credit score. That's like, not, that's too much.
But if you say, hey, baby, you know, grab a
glass of wine. What are your goals? They don't need
to be the same. They just need to be compatible.
Do you want to vacation every winter? Do you want
a housekeeper? Do you want these types of things out
of your life because those things cost money. So alcohol
(27:52):
I think it's it's a rolling conversation. Um I really
I like saying you don't want to you don't want
to raise the temperature, you don't want to say Okay,
now this is the moment where we're gonna have the
serious conversation, because then everyone gets tense and you feel
like there's like cards that you have to put on
the table. I think that this is something where I mean, listen,
there are times where people will have a piece of
information that they're very nervous to share with their significant other.
(28:16):
Like for example, on our show, we talked to this
this woman who had like a hundred thousand dollars in
student loan debt that would reveal that yet to her
her boyfriend now husband. She was very very nervous, like
in tears nervous to tell him that. And so at
that point, you just have you have to find a
moment in which I think both of you are feeling
comfortable and close and like it's you know, it's like
you know that time when it's when it's time to
(28:39):
like you feel like you've built trust. There's an opening
in this conversation where I can tell you something. I
think that's that's that moment, it's quiet, it's at home,
that's right, throw some of that on. But if you
don't say it, it's financial infidelity. I mean, that's infidelity. Yeah,
if you're not disclosing that, or if you owe somebody
money and you're getting into a relationship to see yeah,
(29:01):
I think that you need to do it in a
way in which you don't feel to yourself that you
are holding something or hiding something that you know. We
all know when we've reached the time where something should
be released. And if you have that internal feeling like
you know what, I'm holding onto this too long, it's
getting to like the red zone here, say it, find
the time to say it, just text to enter your
(29:21):
phone off. Thank you very very much. Hush Money name
of the popular podcast. We're joining it ourselves least and
I will be there sharing your intimate secrets. Thanks very much, guys,
thank you, thank you,
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