December 26, 2023 • 43 mins
Things get real (and real personal) as Amy and T.J. open up about their own challenges to their therapist for all to hear.
As we’re all in the midst of the “Happy” Holidays, the advice they’re getting from Dr. Jeff Gardere will help you too.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is Amy, this is TJ. And this is Amy
and TJ. Good to have more here. Thank you always
as always for listening. How are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I mean, it's a big day because it's the day
after Christmas, and yet you're so festive with your tea.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yes, it's eggnogging. Everybody's giving me a hard time. I'm
drinking tea, right, I'm a tea drink. Everybody knows and
this is this was a bad choice.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, it's smelling up the room, eggnog all over the place.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's an eggnog and flavor. But our producer here with us,
Andy said, said what he told us about this tea.
He thought, like nobody drinks that it was given to us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
And yet here you go. You're just trying to keep
the Christmas spirit alive.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
You don't want to let go of Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's over.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's a little eggnog tea.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Christmas spirit is So it's the twenty six, yeah, y'all.
And look in a recent episode, actually asked us, and
this picks up on this point about the twenty six,
asked us if we were seeing a marriage counselor excuse
meship or relationship if we were open to doing so.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
You believe that still, you know what, the holidays are
stressful and it stresses us individually, and I definitely believe
it puts a lot of relationships on edge.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
We are not immune. We were doing this walking into
the studio today and we were talking about something completely random,
and I just turned and looked at I said, do
you think the holidays are having an or have had
an impact on us? And I would have to There
was some stuff going on with us in the past
couple of days that I'm not used to seeing, and
it's a little stressful. And look, you said you've had
(01:50):
therapists in the past. We do not have a couple's
counselor we didn't believe that we needed one. We might
have spoken too soon.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, we had, we had a We have at least
I would say we definitely have a moment a week.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Probably call them hiccups, okay, disagreement. Some of them are
bigger than others.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
See okay, I would disagree with that. See well, I
don't think we have made I don't think we have
major I wouldn't call it a major hookup. Hiccup a
week certainly not a fight or argument, disagreement.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
A hiccup did a little small like a little tiny hiccup.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Okay, Well, since we made that very bold declaration that
we do not need a couple's counselor, we will tell
you all that there has been one night that Robick
and I spent a part that can specifically be blamed
and attributed to a fight. That we had a fight,
(02:46):
a disagreement and argument, a tiff of of what a
lover's quarrel? What would you call it?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean yes, And we needed space from each
other and I think it did us good.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Space is good sometimes.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Okay, Now this was and a lot of people can
relate to this. It was something small. It was so small,
and it started creeping up. We let it fester.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Exactly what it was well for me what sent me
over the edge. And we've had this conversation so many
times about.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Your sleeping hat.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I'm so nervous, okay, And you like to stay on
the couch, you like to not go to bed, you'd
like to stay up. You started to like make a
meal at midnight, and I just was frustrated. I was like,
can we please just go to bed? It had been
a long day. We had a lot of obligations work
and fun, but fun obligations aren't that fun sometimes and
(03:42):
we were tired.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And okay, we were emotionally exhausted.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It was done.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
There was some pride, there was some ego, there was
some alcohol.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
I was done at the end of the night.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, but tell it. We literally spent a night apart
because of a fighting cat.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I think a lot of couples can relate to that.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I mean, we separate apartments, so it's it's kind of
nice actually have space. You know, in New York City apartments,
you don't have other bedrooms a lot of times, so
you're stuck with each other.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean, I guess there's always the couch, which is one.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Of your favorites, and I know you hate that just
and you would prefer that I leave than to sleep
on a couch.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I just I'd rather you come into bed. That would
be the optimum.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Anyway, So as we now relive this, we're now acknowledging
and I think a lot of a lot of couples,
a lot of individuals have all dealt with holidays. For us,
how it affects you and your relationships, your family, your children.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
We're not at our best, okay, And this happened for
us smack dab in the middle of what this hectic
holiday season. We got really folks family. This happened where
we got family coming in town the next day. We
have family obligations and outings and events and social events.
And not only that, this happened the night before, we
(04:58):
had to come into studio and work together. So I
can't even get away from it. Some people can let me,
let me go to work, and I can at least
get away from you to work. That she is.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Still coming to work together.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, you take a different train, No, take the same train.
But here we are. We are in the studio. But
look what, I'm embarrassed. And I don't think I admitted
this to you, but I was embarrassed after the fight
that my first thought wasn't that I need to make
sure she's okay and we're okay and let me apologize,
or my first thought, and it's embarrassing to say, was well,
(05:33):
we got to make sure we're all right because families
come into town and we got to put on a
good face. We are gold to go into the studio together,
so we have to make sure we are upbeat and
make sure we don't lead on that anything's wrong. That
was one of my first thoughts. I am embarrassed that
that was the case.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
We talked about this, that so much of what led
us to this moment in our lives is finally getting
to a place where we can start living our truth.
And I say, I know so many of us pretend
we're good, pretend we're happy, not just for other people
so that they think we're good, but we're actually pretending
(06:08):
to ourselves. And so I think by being open and
being honest and acknowledging the tough times, the tough moments,
the frustrations, and really having the conversation and not sweeping
it under the rug or pretending all is okay, that
is a part of healing and living a much better
life ultimately because you're living your truth.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
It's so much harder than it seems.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We have talked about this now, and given what we've
gone through the past year, a lot of what's happened
since they've gone through, it sounds like we were suffering
and greatly. And I know it's hard to do comparative suffering,
but for what we did experience, it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Was a tough year.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was a tough year, but authenticity is what we
got out of it. So we go through our a
lot a lot of people ending the year and you,
it's hard to even go back. It's been twelve months
and we think so often about what happened to us,
but so much has happened for a lot of people
over the past year, and we have to go back.
And you and I starting the year twenty twenty three,
we lost somebody the two of us who was a dear,
(07:10):
dear friend of ours and who was someone who was
so special to us and helped us through some of
the darkest times and who was our absolute guardian angel.
And as soon as we resolve things with where we
used to work and it was done, and now here
we are coming out of it after a full year,
and he's not here to actually be here and not
(07:31):
just support us, but share I would be very proud
to share this with him. And we lost him at
the beginning of the year.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Howard Brack And he is and was the most incredible
crisis manager. And my god, I don't think a week
has gone by where we haven't said what would Howard say?
Would Howard tell us to do Howard guide us, and
so I'm I like to think he's with us, and
he's watching and he's smiling, and that's an important part
of it. But it's also I think so many people
can take this time and these holidays. They're not always
(07:58):
joyful and have for everyone. People lose people dearly, They've
had tough times, and these are the days and weeks
where you're reminded of it more than any other time, perhaps.
And I lost my grandma this year. She was my
last grandparent.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I know, at my age it was amazing to have
had my grandparents for as long as I did.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
But Grandma Dorothy Roebach passed at the age of ninety one.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And one of one of the.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Quotes, well, this was the quote, the EPI quote, And
I'd take this with me everywhere, because you know, she
used to watch every day and loved watching us on TV.
So my dad had to explain to her what happened
and why I wasn't on television anymore. I get emotional
because I was worried about what she would say and
what she would think.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
And my dad called me and said, you want to
hear what grandma had to say?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
This is probably just like maybe two months before she died,
she said, tell Amy, these things happened.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
That's someone who's lived.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I was just floored.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And so now we like to look at each other
when things hit the fan and we just say, eh,
these things happen.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So thank you, Grandma.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
That was an amazing quote to end a beautiful life
with that we will continue to use and think of
you often.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
But really, for your family is having a first Christmas
without this person who's been in you all's life for
so long. A lot of people are experiencing that a
lot of people are having and experiencing health issues. We
haven't talked about this, but not too long ago, we
found ourselves in NYU Hospital for I think it's fair
to call an urgent exam. Your doctor saw some previous
(09:37):
results and say you need to get your butt into
the doctor's office immediately and we need to run these tests.
And then after that we had to We were there
and we left and had to just wait by the
phone for a call that was essentially a life or
death call in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And anyone who has had cancer knows when you have
a scare of a potential recurrence or another new cancer.
You're going in for a test, and it's not just
any test. It's a test where you feel like you're
going to get a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
It can be that dramatic. And so yes, waiting for
those test res offs for twenty four hours was unnerving
to say the least, but it was positive and meaning
that it was positive news and it was not anything
(10:16):
to be concerned about. But yeah, you get those moments
and all of a sudden your life flashes in front
of you again.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And then here we are, two of us sitting here
this year as well, finalized divorces. Yeah, this year as well.
Not long ago, there was a move into a new apartment.
We launched this new venture here with iHeart been working
on this for the past six months plus all that
stuff going on behind the scenes. Folks didn't know a
lot of that work going though. That was a huge transition,
and at the same time we were trying to get
our kids adjusted to new realities of family. We've got
(10:43):
to figure out the holidays, who goes where when and
what time, and who goes in the morning and who
comes over in the evening. And so with all of
that that we went through in the year and you
all a lot of you had similar stories or experiences.
So after we went through all that and talked about it,
it turns out we do need a relationship counselor.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, and it turns out we decided what better place
to talk about all of this than right here on
our podcast so that you all can ride along with
us and maybe write a few things down. Because we
have someone who we have loved and known for decades.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Now. Yeah, we invited him to be here. We invited
him before we had the fight, so he didn't know
he was going to come on and have to be
our relationship counselor. But hey, here we are. But he
is absolutely someone we just adore in one of our
favorite people we have ever interviewed in our careers. It's
our pleasure to welcome author, professor, minister TV host, an
(11:38):
expert in the field of mental health, our friend and
America's psychologist, doctor Jeff Guard. Dear young fellow.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Amy TJ's so great to be with you again. It's
been a minute. The world has changed, so much has
gone on, you guys have Oh my god, I put.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Up with and experience so much.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
But I'm glad that we are all here to talk
about the holiday season, what we've been through, what we're expecting,
what the promise of tomorrow is all about, what some
of the issues are that we still need to work around.
But you know, this is great information that you're giving
(12:21):
out today, and I'm glad that we're talking about this,
and I'm happy to be your therapist if you.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Say that.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Now, just wait, doctor Guardier.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's funny because we all have these expectations about this
time of year. It's the most wonderful time of the year.
And I remember being in a storybugs actually what that
song was playing when things were really not great, and
I started crying.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
But just hearing that song set me off.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
What is it about this time of year that can
cause such dramatic reactions and difficulties with individuals and families
and relationships.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Well, in this time of year, of course, we are
very emotionally aroused. There are a lot of expectations, as
you talked about, as far as being on being present,
being able to be there for family members, to be
joyous that this is the expectation that comes along with
this time of year, and when we're not really feeling it,
(13:21):
when we're going through our own thing when we're not
particularly feeling joyous. But again, the expectation is you have
to smile even though your heart is breaking. That is
a challenge, that is a weight that you carry upon
your shoulders, because in some ways, it's not even the
expectations of others, Amy, it's also the expectations you have
(13:46):
on yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, doctor Gardia, how dangerous is that if we put
ourselves in that position to always try to be chipper
and a Starbucks when we hear a song, to always
smile because you know what, I just got that Christmas
card in the mail and that was the perfect little
family with the dog and the two kids, and right
everybody's life and on Instagram everybody looks like they're having
a wonderful time of the year. What's the danger in
(14:09):
setting that expectation.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Well, before we.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Talk about the danger, let's talk about perhaps how it
can help when we do get those little cards and
so on, because it can cheer us up a little bit.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
But that can only go so far.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
And so the danger is that people are looking at
you and expecting you to smile. You are expecting yourself
to now be happy. You even begin to minimize some
of the things that you're feeling. You begin to blame
yourself and say, well, maybe something's wrong with me, maybe
(14:45):
this is something that I deserve or that I'm doing
to myself.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
And therefore we take all the.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
Responsibilities away from other people and then we put it
all on ourselves, and as I said, we become our
own harshest critic. And then that makes our emotions. It
makes the angst that we're feeling, the depression, the sadness,
the anxiety, it makes it so much worse.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
And now we feel like we.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Are carrying the weight of the world on our shoulders,
and we don't given ourselves enough grace in this time.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I feel validated, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
You know what, we are going to continue this conversation
because we talked about the why and acknowledging that we're
kind of all in this together. I don't think anyone's
immune to what you just described. Let's talk about now
next what we can do about it, and welcome back everyone.
(15:47):
We have doctor Jeff Garder with us talking about something
we've all been experiencing. I'm fairly certain this holiday season
that's stress, that's anxiety, that's relationship difficulties and lost. This
forced feeling of I should be happy that somehow creates
quite the opposite feeling and a lot of us. So
we're talking about something I think most of us know
(16:09):
unfortunately very well, but we have such an amazing person
with us to talk about what we can do about it.
And Jeff, someone once told me this, and it makes
sense kind of, but I want to get your take
on it. Don't avoid conflicts, value them. That seems like
something you wouldn't want to pursue. But sometimes with all
(16:30):
of the stress and conflict we may have with one another,
there can be really important, incredible takeaways and growth. Yes,
how do we get our head around that and look
at it from that vantage point?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I think perhaps the person to talk to you is
very psychologically minded, because really one of the basic tenets
in dealing with conflict or resolution is to actually deal
with the conflict. Too often we want to avoid any
kind of issues that are difficult for us, especially in relationships,
whether it's a personal or professional relationship, whether it's a
(17:04):
family relationship. But the conflicts are there for a reason.
There are unresolved issues that have to be taken care of.
The more that we put them in the corner. The
more that we can partmentalize them, the more strength that
they gain. The more dysfunction that we see, we become
even much more uncomfortable, and our relationships strain even more. So.
(17:28):
At some point you can run, but you cannot hide
from that particular issue or conflict. And that's why it's
important to say, yes, there is an issue here, let's
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
But do you have to talk about it then? Because
I did say so. We had our little tiff the
other week.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And that's really understating it. I needed to leave. I
needed to leave. No, she didn't leve. I put her out,
Doctor God, I put out. And then the.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Next day, when some of us up, we could we
could talk about it in a calm way and actually
have company results. Do you encourage taking time and taking
some space and letting yourself calm down before you actually
engage in the conflict resolution.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
So I was listening to your opening talk, of course,
and a couple of points that you all made that
I think we really should pay attention to number one,
even though I believe that whatever conflict we're having, at
the end of the night, we should be in bed together.
You know, and kind of just put that to the
(18:35):
side for the time. It's just my opinion there, TJ.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
But you know you should.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Sleep in that same bed because it does show that solidarity.
But you will learn since I'm going to become your
therapist or a couple therapists anyway, I'm announcing it to
the world. But you know, the thing that you did do,
both of you did that I thought was important. You
felt that it was something too big to manage at
the time, so you gave yourselves space. And that is
(19:03):
the proper thing to do, whether it be in another
room or if you're fortunate enough to have your own
living space to be able to retreat to that.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
That's good because, as I like to say.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
No one can hear you screaming at one another in space, right,
so that gives you time to calm things down. Secondly,
you said there was you know, perhaps a little you know,
social drinking involved. And the next rule is when you
have some social drinking, probably not a good idea to
(19:36):
try to resolve issues because it makes our tongues a
little bit looser, the impulse control is it a little
bit less, So wait until your completely sober to talk
about it. And getting directly to your point. Amy, Yes,
sometimes you should wait and say, Okay, things are two heated,
(19:57):
let's take a time out, Let's give it a couple
of and then when we can come back and talk
about it with our rational minds, not so much the
reptilian mind of I gotta win, I gotta make my point.
It's more of it's not about winning, it's about sharing.
It's about learning. It's about growing so we can deal
(20:19):
with the next conflict that comes along, because you know,
they keep on coming, right, and we want to be
better each time. And I think if we follow that
kind of a process, there isn't anything that we can't
solve in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
How did we come out of this one? Would you say?
How did we result? Because we didn't. We started texting
at the end of the morning, and then what I'm you.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Came, I'm actually proud. We've come a long way.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I mean, I think even as friends, we fought like
we thought as coworkers in front, so.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We're not Yeah, but then I knew I could go home.
I don't have to stick it out with you care guys, but.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I do think we have learned. I'm proud we I
think we're pretty good with impulse control. We're not shouting
at each other, we're not none of that's happening. But
I think they're just kind of going to shut down mode.
But yes, the texting is usually how we get back.
I think we both told each other that we missed
each other and that we loved each other.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Okay, you know that's a very good way to open
it up with words of affirmation, words of love. You know,
we don't hear the three most important words in the
world often enough.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
I love you.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
And when you open up any kind of discussion with
your partner with I love you, but I need to
say this, I love you, but this is what I felt.
It really does kind of like open up a door
in a very gentle way to be able to listen
to one another because you're saying, I'm giving you unconditional
(21:46):
positive regard no matter where this discussion goes.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
You said three words. She has a favorite four words.
It's I love you, but no, no kind of. But
it's what comes after the butt that gets us in
trouble there, guard dear, Look, we're dogging here about family
world relationships here, but there's so much people talk about
family during the holidays, and we're still getting through the
(22:12):
end of this holiday season. People spend a lot of
time with family, and you hear the jokes like I
gotta deal with my this, I gotta deal with my
in laws, I gotta deal with my mom and somebody's
giving me a hard time. And but that has a
negative connotation to it around the holidays when it comes
to family. But also isn't family wonderful to be leaning
on in this very difficult time? And we should probably
(22:35):
Oh well, I'll let you say it, if it's the case,
be leaning on our family like this year.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
Round and now more than ever, in this very fractured, divided,
violent world that we live in.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
What do we really have family?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
You know, you talked about Amy, you talked about your
your I believe your grandma passed away. You talked about
your good friend Howard who passed away. We have to
rely and my condolences. Of course, we have to rely
on the people that we love to be our anchors.
And so I know for my Christmas, I really was
(23:15):
very anxious about seeing.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
My family, my in laws.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
You know, some of the people that I grew up with,
Because when you get together at that dinner table. No
matter how old you are, how far you've come, what
you have achieved, it goes back to those basic family dynamics. Right,
Mom always loved you best. Oh, you were the one
who got all the attention. I was the middle child
(23:42):
and I was ignored. So we replay those dynamics. But
this is an opportunity for us to have an emotional replay,
to use our minds in a way where we are
in present day and dealing with a lot of the
past issues, but using our intelligence, our cognition to be
(24:03):
able to talk about these unresolved issues and to address them.
We may not solve them then and there, but it's
important that we be able to continue to address them,
and it may take years, but at least we're talking
to one another. At least we're there, because you never
know who may not be there in the next holiday
(24:26):
Erish who you have right now, because in this uncertain world,
we never know from one day to the next. Love
that person that you are with right now.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's so true, and you know, I think we all
need to be reminded of that during this holiday season.
It's interesting. Obviously TJ and I have had some incredibly
like very very significant life changes, family changes, different dynamics.
And I have now my twenty one year old daughter
(24:59):
from college in the apartment right now with us, my
seventeen year old who's stressed out. She's getting college acceptances
and deferrals as we speak, and so there's just a
lot of I don't want to say tension, but there's
just there's a lot of energy in the apartment.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
And you may want to say tension.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yes, that yep, that absolutely is a part of it.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And then you're throw in her black boyfriend. Oh my god,
doctor Guardia, you talk about stress.
Speaker 5 (25:31):
WHOA, Well, that's that that that listen, that's stability right there,
that's stability.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
If you're hearing it from a black therapist.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
What what is the best way to diffuse the situation
when you've got people who might not always be living
together around each other suddenly thrown into an apartment together.
You know, even as a parent, as a sibling, is
do the rules stay the same based on who you are,
a role you play in the family. How to best
(26:07):
diffuse a situation and to not be triggered? And I
think we all I hear my daughters use that word
all the time. You're triggering me.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Okay, I don't even know what that means, but all right, and.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Whose responsibility is it to maintain their reaction to the trigger?
Speaker 6 (26:22):
Right?
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Right, the right word was tension. So with you, with
your twenty one year old and your seventeen year old
there they are going through a very challenging time of
their lives, as you are going through a challenging time
in your lives, you know, Amy and TJ. So sometimes
(26:44):
we may not have the bandwidth to be able to
look at what it is that, you know, our children
are experiencing. But at the end of the day, as adults,
we are the leaders of the pack.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
We are the alphas.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
So we have to be able to find a way
to allow them to be able to express themselves in
a very constructive way, even if they are irrational, even
if they're feeling a lot of emotion, even if they're
you know, striking out or what have you. It for
you as the leader, it's allowing them to have that space,
(27:21):
yet at the same time being able to give them
the guardrails to say it's okay, it's okay to have
your emotions, it's okay to be anxious. It's okay to be,
you know, overly excited to the point of where you're
stepping on some toes, but learn how to temper that
(27:41):
because that's part of our lives, that's the way that
we do function in a more constructive way.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
We're talking about seventeen to twenty year old here her daughters,
and you talk about potentially being irrational and there of
a certain age, But do you need to extend that
grace to everybody throughout your life? Right? There are grown
folks who can be a rational and we're all looking
for a way, certainly when we're stressed out. And I
wasn't gonna say it, but thank you for that out there.
(28:09):
I didn't want to say it. But what can you
what can you do there to manage people? How much
of yourself should you extend for somebody else's trigger? As
you say, you.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
Know, we we have to try to live up to
a higher standard and not own other people's.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Anks and not own.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
They're some of there. And I'm not talking about your daughters.
I'm talking about sometimes in the general public and what
the two of you have gone through.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Other people's projections.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
We can't own those things and it's so easy to
absorb that negative energy. And when I speak to my patients,
I say, the way that you do that is to
understand what it is that's being thrown at you, expressed it.
You may not have anything to do with you at all.
That is their own intra psychic conflicts, unresolved baggage that
(29:09):
they're carrying around, and they get into something called splitting
where they then project a lot of their insecurities onto
you because they don't want to own their own thing. So,
in some ways, I like to call it flipping the
script and tricking the devil. That person that may come
against you in that particular way, or who may be
(29:31):
rude in front of you, or who may even be
part of your family and is acting out in a
certain way.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
You have to show them.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
You don't have to, but it makes you the better
person to show the grace and understanding of saying, hey,
what's really going on here? How is it that I
can help you, but also showing the grace and understanding
to yourself to be able to say, there are boundaries here,
and there's only so far that you can go where
(30:01):
I either tell you you stop or I pull back
and walk away.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Ro certainly so far that you can go or I'm
going to step back and pull back and I'm gonna
walk away, Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
It's so hard not to be defensive in those moments.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I mean, I have, I have failed a million times
in how I've reacted, and I do think it's okay,
and I've found this to be a very powerful tool.
I say I'm sorry a lot. I don't always get
it right. I don't get it right a lot of times.
And you know, as parents, I always tell my daughters,
I don't have a handbook. I don't know, and I'm like,
(30:38):
you know, talk to your therapist about it.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'm kidding, I'm not, but no, I don't. There isn't
a rule book for any of this.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We Doug, Doug Dougarder, we are to you. When you
say I'm sorry, it drives me crazy. Why because i'm
sorry comes twenty four hours later, and that's great, that's great.
But I'm always the guy of It's not a matter
of it's how you react in the moment that makes
all the difference in the world, because in that moment,
we have a chance to go this way or this way,
(31:07):
and if you go that way, I'm out. I'm done. Wow,
you know I'm done. I'm checked out for the DAB.
I'm not done done.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Are you How long are you done for?
Speaker 6 (31:22):
When you say your death?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
It's two days?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
No, it's two days, Jeff, it's two days.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I know. I admit that, doctor guardia and that's something
maybe you can't help us with. But I am. I
am really really bad about this. I don't scream, I
don't yell, I don't do anything. I don't name call,
I don't get aggressive and nothing. But I will check
out and you're gonna have to wait until I get it.
I don't need you to say I'm sorry. I don't
need you to help me. I have to work through it,
(31:49):
and I'm I'm trying to get better at doing it quicker,
but it hasn't so far.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Now, well, let's get Jeff's take on this when we
come back. I can't wait. I am taking notes here.
Maybe actually, TJ, could you take notes?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I will do Okay, I'm taking this seriously. We have
a trained professional here, and this is something that we
deal with. I know other people deal with as well,
But how people deal with conflicts arguments in a relationship
and how to get past them and quickly. Sometimes doctor
Gardier is what seems like should be the motivation, But
should that be should that be a goal to get
(32:33):
over it as quickly as possible.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
I think the goal really should be to learn as
much as possible, and if you could learn as much
as possible, that'll help you. Amy said something that I
really like, those two words that we also don't hear
enough in relationships or in the world. I'm sorry. And
when you're saying I'm sorry, it's showing empathy and giving validation,
(32:56):
but it's also taking responsibility as a partners, as a
as a parent, saying yeah, maybe I could have done better.
I don't quite understand why you're so angry at me,
but I'm sure there's something that I could have done,
and I'm going to work on taking more responsibility with that.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Moving on to TJ.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Now, yes, and two days I think I think it
went on to TJ right there.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
I think TJ heard something there. So this so this thing.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
TJ of you know very quickly, it takes you a
day or two to work out your thing. And I'm
saying this to you with all due respect. Sometimes it
can be a little bit selfish when we need to
take that day or two to work it out, and
our partner is left trying to figure out what's going on.
(33:48):
So one of the things that you can do, which
maybe you are doing, is in that one or two
days that you take, you know, to get yourself together,
to reregulate, get your hormonal system working and balanced again,
so you can deal in a positive way in the relationship.
Is checking in yes, I'm working on this, Yes I'm okay, Yes,
(34:12):
how are you doing while I work it out? Those
sorts of things allow you to have the space to
really pull it together.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Okay, And I heard hormonal. So you're saying it's not
my fault, I have a chemical imbalance.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Well, listen, I mean this is all about the brain.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
One of the things we know is you can't separate,
you know, spiritual from psychological from the brain. You know,
a lot of the things that happen when we go
into conflict also affects our brain, our dopamine, our neurotransmitters.
So when we go into fight or flight, it becomes
a very chemical thing where either we stay and work
(34:51):
it out, or we run away, or we freeze. And
so when we reregulate our brains. When we calm down,
then it allows us to see things with a more
rational mind versus with the more emotional mind.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I mean, honestly, I would rather have him yell at
me than freeze me out for two days.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I'm just I'm spiral.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I'm like, I don't know what to say, what to do,
what he thinks some we've tried this before it gets
to that place, and we've only had a couple doozies
where this has happened. But we tried playfully at a
better point to have a safe word when someone starts
doing something or saying something that you know could potentially
take our relationship off the rails.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
We say, what.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Dan Steely? And the reason is that's our safe for it.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
But what is that word?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's is Dan Steely, but it's something that makes us
laugh because the band is Steely.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Dan, right, and TJ had never heard of the band,
and when he was trying to recall it later, he goes,
what's that band called Dan Steely? And I died laughing, No,
it's Steely Dan. But then we decided because it made
us laugh, yes, why not have that be our safe
I guess it's a safe phrase.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
It's not a safe word.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That has a different connotation.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, I know, I know it's safe phrase. All right.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
What do you think about that concept? I think it's
helped a couple of times.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
I think.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
I think when you have a safe word that really
does say let's take the time out and we trust
one another because we agree on that safe word. So
if we're talking about Dan Steely, then we can say,
you know what, Amy, I will come back to you.
Oh he knows, of course, I know Steely, Dan, Come on.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
What song is that I'm sorry?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Come back to it is?
Speaker 6 (36:46):
Peg guy will come back to you?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Right wow? Yeah, y'all got me on this one in
our last few moments here.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
But I gotta ask you, I gotta I gotta ask
you this TJ very quick. So when you take that
day or two away from Amy, it's a way for
you to reregulate, to work through things so you can
be your better self. But are you aware that that's
(37:16):
also pretty painful for her because it's easy for her
to interpret that as he is also being very passive aggressive.
Not only is he healing, but he's also denying me
his presence that I really need in my time of pain.
So might be something you might want to consider, because
(37:39):
we do it all the time, not thinking about perhaps
what the other person might be feeling at that time.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
We had plenty of time for the question. But the
answer is complex. I will tell you I have a
very bad habit. I don't let a lot of people in.
And there are people in my life that I have well,
you know, maybe just friends or colleagues or something. You
you you burn me one time. You do one time,
and I'm done with you, and I will shut people
(38:08):
out and I'm not very forgiving. That is true. But
if I have somebody in my life like this, that's
this close to me, that is the the the person
who brought the pain that I'm feeling. This person is
not going to leave my life. I get that, but
I am still dealing with that thing and grappling with
being hurt so so, so bad, and then trying to
(38:31):
go back and give love or receive love from that
person that pain me. I know, that's what everything you
said I agree with one hundred percent, but that is
oftentimes what's happening with me, and I'm not again. I
don't go away for two days. We don't just stop
talking for two days. But it's not the same. It's different.
I am a very warm and loving and person and
(38:52):
when that goes away, I'm sure that doesn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Oh it's awful.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Sorry, so awful.
Speaker 6 (38:58):
Sorry, And I think I think what might add.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
But thank you for saying I'm sorry, you know, because
that those words are very important, and you're really listening
as to what it is you know that Amy needs
as she listens as to what it is that you need.
You need some of that space sometimes. But I want
the two of you to consider that, you know, everyone
has been through something, you know, really really soul shaking
(39:25):
in their lives. You know you've been You've all been
through things. Other couples have been through things, and so on.
We know this is a very complex matter, but just
focusing on the two of you in the here and now,
consider that even though you have this extremely strong love
(39:49):
and are united in this way, that you're.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Still hurting very much.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
You know, you both smile, you both, you know, appear
to the cameras, you both do your professional gigs, you
both take care of your families, your combined families, but
the two of you are still still in emotional pain
and you're getting stronger every day, but being in that
(40:19):
pain may make things even much more, put you both
in a more vulnerable place when you're dealing with issues
amongst one another.
Speaker 6 (40:30):
Really actually having one another.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
But yeah, that's really powerful. Thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
And I think anyone out there, you know, our situation
isn't unique. It's just unique in that it's been blasted
everywhere and put in a very public space. But I
think so many people can relate to those types of issues.
When you have painful periods in your life, you tend
to take it out, or feel that emotional stress, you
(40:56):
put it onto the person you love the most.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
I think that, well, let's not sugarcoat it's been life
changing for the two of you, what the two of
you have gone through. But what's really important, there's something
called post traumatic growth. We've all heard of post traumatic
stress disorder, where a trauma happens and then you know,
we go through anxiety and depression and you know, flashbacks
(41:20):
and nightmares and conflicts and so on. But post traumatic
growth is about going from being a victim to a
survivor to then being a victor. And I think we
talked about this, you know, way back when where when
(41:41):
you go down that rabbit hole and come out of it,
you are stronger than you ever went in. And hopefully
that is the promise of the two of you to
one another and to your children and to your families,
that you really do become beacons on how to work
through some of the hardest issues, relationship issues that anyone
(42:06):
really can face.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Well, we didn't expect this necessarily to turn into a
relationship counseling session, but it did for us great and
for a lot of folks, because a lot of people
can absolutely use the advice you just gave. And look,
we appreciate it because how much of the relationship counselor
here in New York, Wow, at least three three hundred.
But all we got to do is buy him a lunch.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
When Jeff, thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
There go, thank you so much. We truly appreciate your
incredible words of wisdom.
Speaker 6 (42:37):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
And for folks, as you're getting through the holidays and
you're approaching the New year's now, please remember don't be
so hard on yourself, don't pretend, don't feel that you
have to be everywhere and do everything. Now is the
time to take care of yourself, especially if you need love,
(43:00):
especially if you need the care of your own soul
so that you can eventually be there for others, but
you have to be there for yourself first.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Wow, that's a perfect way to end. Jeff, thank you
so much. We love you, and we'll talk soon, really soon.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Actually, yes, and everybody, thank you so much for listening.
I'm TJ.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
I'm Amy.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
You can catch us, of course on Instagram you can
find us, but also you can follow our show at
Amy and TJ Podcast on Instagram.
Welcome back everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is Amy, this is TJ. And this is Amy
and TJ. Good to have more here. Thank you always
as always for listening. How are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I mean, it's a big day because it's the day
after Christmas, and yet you're so festive with your tea.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yes, it's eggnogging. Everybody's giving me a hard time. I'm
drinking tea, right, I'm a tea drink. Everybody knows and
this is this was a bad choice.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, it's smelling up the room, eggnog all over the place.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's an eggnog and flavor. But our producer here with us,
Andy said, said what he told us about this tea.
He thought, like nobody drinks that it was given to us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
And yet here you go. You're just trying to keep
the Christmas spirit alive.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
You don't want to let go of Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's over.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's a little eggnog tea.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Christmas spirit is So it's the twenty six, yeah, y'all.
And look in a recent episode, actually asked us, and
this picks up on this point about the twenty six,
asked us if we were seeing a marriage counselor excuse
meship or relationship if we were open to doing so.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
You believe that still, you know what, the holidays are
stressful and it stresses us individually, and I definitely believe
it puts a lot of relationships on edge.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
We are not immune. We were doing this walking into
the studio today and we were talking about something completely random,
and I just turned and looked at I said, do
you think the holidays are having an or have had
an impact on us? And I would have to There
was some stuff going on with us in the past
couple of days that I'm not used to seeing, and
it's a little stressful. And look, you said you've had
(01:50):
therapists in the past. We do not have a couple's
counselor we didn't believe that we needed one. We might
have spoken too soon.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, we had, we had a We have at least
I would say we definitely have a moment a week.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Probably call them hiccups, okay, disagreement. Some of them are
bigger than others.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
See okay, I would disagree with that. See well, I
don't think we have made I don't think we have
major I wouldn't call it a major hookup. Hiccup a
week certainly not a fight or argument, disagreement.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
A hiccup did a little small like a little tiny hiccup.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Okay, Well, since we made that very bold declaration that
we do not need a couple's counselor, we will tell
you all that there has been one night that Robick
and I spent a part that can specifically be blamed
and attributed to a fight. That we had a fight,
(02:46):
a disagreement and argument, a tiff of of what a
lover's quarrel? What would you call it?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean yes, And we needed space from each
other and I think it did us good.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Space is good sometimes.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Okay, Now this was and a lot of people can
relate to this. It was something small. It was so small,
and it started creeping up. We let it fester.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Exactly what it was well for me what sent me
over the edge. And we've had this conversation so many
times about.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Your sleeping hat.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I'm so nervous, okay, And you like to stay on
the couch, you like to not go to bed, you'd
like to stay up. You started to like make a
meal at midnight, and I just was frustrated. I was like,
can we please just go to bed? It had been
a long day. We had a lot of obligations work
and fun, but fun obligations aren't that fun sometimes and
(03:42):
we were tired.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And okay, we were emotionally exhausted.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It was done.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
There was some pride, there was some ego, there was
some alcohol.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
I was done at the end of the night.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, but tell it. We literally spent a night apart
because of a fighting cat.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I think a lot of couples can relate to that.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I mean, we separate apartments, so it's it's kind of
nice actually have space. You know, in New York City apartments,
you don't have other bedrooms a lot of times, so
you're stuck with each other.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean, I guess there's always the couch, which is one.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Of your favorites, and I know you hate that just
and you would prefer that I leave than to sleep
on a couch.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I just I'd rather you come into bed. That would
be the optimum.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Anyway, So as we now relive this, we're now acknowledging
and I think a lot of a lot of couples,
a lot of individuals have all dealt with holidays. For us,
how it affects you and your relationships, your family, your children.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
We're not at our best, okay, And this happened for
us smack dab in the middle of what this hectic
holiday season. We got really folks family. This happened where
we got family coming in town the next day. We
have family obligations and outings and events and social events.
And not only that, this happened the night before, we
(04:58):
had to come into studio and work together. So I
can't even get away from it. Some people can let me,
let me go to work, and I can at least
get away from you to work. That she is.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Still coming to work together.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, you take a different train, No, take the same train.
But here we are. We are in the studio. But
look what, I'm embarrassed. And I don't think I admitted
this to you, but I was embarrassed after the fight
that my first thought wasn't that I need to make
sure she's okay and we're okay and let me apologize,
or my first thought, and it's embarrassing to say, was well,
(05:33):
we got to make sure we're all right because families
come into town and we got to put on a
good face. We are gold to go into the studio together,
so we have to make sure we are upbeat and
make sure we don't lead on that anything's wrong. That
was one of my first thoughts. I am embarrassed that
that was the case.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
We talked about this, that so much of what led
us to this moment in our lives is finally getting
to a place where we can start living our truth.
And I say, I know so many of us pretend
we're good, pretend we're happy, not just for other people
so that they think we're good, but we're actually pretending
(06:08):
to ourselves. And so I think by being open and
being honest and acknowledging the tough times, the tough moments,
the frustrations, and really having the conversation and not sweeping
it under the rug or pretending all is okay, that
is a part of healing and living a much better
life ultimately because you're living your truth.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
It's so much harder than it seems.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We have talked about this now, and given what we've
gone through the past year, a lot of what's happened
since they've gone through, it sounds like we were suffering
and greatly. And I know it's hard to do comparative suffering,
but for what we did experience, it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Was a tough year.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was a tough year, but authenticity is what we
got out of it. So we go through our a
lot a lot of people ending the year and you,
it's hard to even go back. It's been twelve months
and we think so often about what happened to us,
but so much has happened for a lot of people
over the past year, and we have to go back.
And you and I starting the year twenty twenty three,
we lost somebody the two of us who was a dear,
(07:10):
dear friend of ours and who was someone who was
so special to us and helped us through some of
the darkest times and who was our absolute guardian angel.
And as soon as we resolve things with where we
used to work and it was done, and now here
we are coming out of it after a full year,
and he's not here to actually be here and not
(07:31):
just support us, but share I would be very proud
to share this with him. And we lost him at
the beginning of the year.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Howard Brack And he is and was the most incredible
crisis manager. And my god, I don't think a week
has gone by where we haven't said what would Howard say?
Would Howard tell us to do Howard guide us, and
so I'm I like to think he's with us, and
he's watching and he's smiling, and that's an important part
of it. But it's also I think so many people
can take this time and these holidays. They're not always
(07:58):
joyful and have for everyone. People lose people dearly, They've
had tough times, and these are the days and weeks
where you're reminded of it more than any other time, perhaps.
And I lost my grandma this year. She was my
last grandparent.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I know, at my age it was amazing to have
had my grandparents for as long as I did.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
But Grandma Dorothy Roebach passed at the age of ninety one.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And one of one of the.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Quotes, well, this was the quote, the EPI quote, And
I'd take this with me everywhere, because you know, she
used to watch every day and loved watching us on TV.
So my dad had to explain to her what happened
and why I wasn't on television anymore. I get emotional
because I was worried about what she would say and
what she would think.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
And my dad called me and said, you want to
hear what grandma had to say?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
This is probably just like maybe two months before she died,
she said, tell Amy, these things happened.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
That's someone who's lived.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I was just floored.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
And so now we like to look at each other
when things hit the fan and we just say, eh,
these things happen.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So thank you, Grandma.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
That was an amazing quote to end a beautiful life
with that we will continue to use and think of
you often.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
But really, for your family is having a first Christmas
without this person who's been in you all's life for
so long. A lot of people are experiencing that a
lot of people are having and experiencing health issues. We
haven't talked about this, but not too long ago, we
found ourselves in NYU Hospital for I think it's fair
to call an urgent exam. Your doctor saw some previous
(09:37):
results and say you need to get your butt into
the doctor's office immediately and we need to run these tests.
And then after that we had to We were there
and we left and had to just wait by the
phone for a call that was essentially a life or
death call in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And anyone who has had cancer knows when you have
a scare of a potential recurrence or another new cancer.
You're going in for a test, and it's not just
any test. It's a test where you feel like you're
going to get a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
It can be that dramatic. And so yes, waiting for
those test res offs for twenty four hours was unnerving
to say the least, but it was positive and meaning
that it was positive news and it was not anything
(10:16):
to be concerned about. But yeah, you get those moments
and all of a sudden your life flashes in front
of you again.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And then here we are, two of us sitting here
this year as well, finalized divorces. Yeah, this year as well.
Not long ago, there was a move into a new apartment.
We launched this new venture here with iHeart been working
on this for the past six months plus all that
stuff going on behind the scenes. Folks didn't know a
lot of that work going though. That was a huge transition,
and at the same time we were trying to get
our kids adjusted to new realities of family. We've got
(10:43):
to figure out the holidays, who goes where when and
what time, and who goes in the morning and who
comes over in the evening. And so with all of
that that we went through in the year and you
all a lot of you had similar stories or experiences.
So after we went through all that and talked about it,
it turns out we do need a relationship counselor.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, and it turns out we decided what better place
to talk about all of this than right here on
our podcast so that you all can ride along with
us and maybe write a few things down. Because we
have someone who we have loved and known for decades.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Now. Yeah, we invited him to be here. We invited
him before we had the fight, so he didn't know
he was going to come on and have to be
our relationship counselor. But hey, here we are. But he
is absolutely someone we just adore in one of our
favorite people we have ever interviewed in our careers. It's
our pleasure to welcome author, professor, minister TV host, an
(11:38):
expert in the field of mental health, our friend and
America's psychologist, doctor Jeff Guard. Dear young fellow.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Amy TJ's so great to be with you again. It's
been a minute. The world has changed, so much has
gone on, you guys have Oh my god, I put.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Up with and experience so much.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
But I'm glad that we are all here to talk
about the holiday season, what we've been through, what we're expecting,
what the promise of tomorrow is all about, what some
of the issues are that we still need to work around.
But you know, this is great information that you're giving
(12:21):
out today, and I'm glad that we're talking about this,
and I'm happy to be your therapist if you.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Say that.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Now, just wait, doctor Guardier.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's funny because we all have these expectations about this
time of year. It's the most wonderful time of the year.
And I remember being in a storybugs actually what that
song was playing when things were really not great, and
I started crying.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
But just hearing that song set me off.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
What is it about this time of year that can
cause such dramatic reactions and difficulties with individuals and families
and relationships.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Well, in this time of year, of course, we are
very emotionally aroused. There are a lot of expectations, as
you talked about, as far as being on being present,
being able to be there for family members, to be
joyous that this is the expectation that comes along with
this time of year, and when we're not really feeling it,
(13:21):
when we're going through our own thing when we're not
particularly feeling joyous. But again, the expectation is you have
to smile even though your heart is breaking. That is
a challenge, that is a weight that you carry upon
your shoulders, because in some ways, it's not even the
expectations of others, Amy, it's also the expectations you have
(13:46):
on yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, doctor Gardia, how dangerous is that if we put
ourselves in that position to always try to be chipper
and a Starbucks when we hear a song, to always
smile because you know what, I just got that Christmas
card in the mail and that was the perfect little
family with the dog and the two kids, and right
everybody's life and on Instagram everybody looks like they're having
a wonderful time of the year. What's the danger in
(14:09):
setting that expectation.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Well, before we.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Talk about the danger, let's talk about perhaps how it
can help when we do get those little cards and
so on, because it can cheer us up a little bit.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
But that can only go so far.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
And so the danger is that people are looking at
you and expecting you to smile. You are expecting yourself
to now be happy. You even begin to minimize some
of the things that you're feeling. You begin to blame
yourself and say, well, maybe something's wrong with me, maybe
(14:45):
this is something that I deserve or that I'm doing
to myself.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
And therefore we take all the.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
Responsibilities away from other people and then we put it
all on ourselves, and as I said, we become our
own harshest critic. And then that makes our emotions. It
makes the angst that we're feeling, the depression, the sadness,
the anxiety, it makes it so much worse.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
And now we feel like we.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Are carrying the weight of the world on our shoulders,
and we don't given ourselves enough grace in this time.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I feel validated, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
You know what, we are going to continue this conversation
because we talked about the why and acknowledging that we're
kind of all in this together. I don't think anyone's
immune to what you just described. Let's talk about now
next what we can do about it, and welcome back everyone.
(15:47):
We have doctor Jeff Garder with us talking about something
we've all been experiencing. I'm fairly certain this holiday season
that's stress, that's anxiety, that's relationship difficulties and lost. This
forced feeling of I should be happy that somehow creates
quite the opposite feeling and a lot of us. So
we're talking about something I think most of us know
(16:09):
unfortunately very well, but we have such an amazing person
with us to talk about what we can do about it.
And Jeff, someone once told me this, and it makes
sense kind of, but I want to get your take
on it. Don't avoid conflicts, value them. That seems like
something you wouldn't want to pursue. But sometimes with all
(16:30):
of the stress and conflict we may have with one another,
there can be really important, incredible takeaways and growth. Yes,
how do we get our head around that and look
at it from that vantage point?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I think perhaps the person to talk to you is
very psychologically minded, because really one of the basic tenets
in dealing with conflict or resolution is to actually deal
with the conflict. Too often we want to avoid any
kind of issues that are difficult for us, especially in relationships,
whether it's a personal or professional relationship, whether it's a
(17:04):
family relationship. But the conflicts are there for a reason.
There are unresolved issues that have to be taken care of.
The more that we put them in the corner. The
more that we can partmentalize them, the more strength that
they gain. The more dysfunction that we see, we become
even much more uncomfortable, and our relationships strain even more. So.
(17:28):
At some point you can run, but you cannot hide
from that particular issue or conflict. And that's why it's
important to say, yes, there is an issue here, let's
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
But do you have to talk about it then? Because
I did say so. We had our little tiff the
other week.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And that's really understating it. I needed to leave. I
needed to leave. No, she didn't leve. I put her out,
Doctor God, I put out. And then the.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Next day, when some of us up, we could we
could talk about it in a calm way and actually
have company results. Do you encourage taking time and taking
some space and letting yourself calm down before you actually
engage in the conflict resolution.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
So I was listening to your opening talk, of course,
and a couple of points that you all made that
I think we really should pay attention to number one,
even though I believe that whatever conflict we're having, at
the end of the night, we should be in bed together.
You know, and kind of just put that to the
(18:35):
side for the time. It's just my opinion there, TJ.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
But you know you should.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Sleep in that same bed because it does show that solidarity.
But you will learn since I'm going to become your
therapist or a couple therapists anyway, I'm announcing it to
the world. But you know, the thing that you did do,
both of you did that I thought was important. You
felt that it was something too big to manage at
the time, so you gave yourselves space. And that is
(19:03):
the proper thing to do, whether it be in another
room or if you're fortunate enough to have your own
living space to be able to retreat to that.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
That's good because, as I like to say.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
No one can hear you screaming at one another in space, right,
so that gives you time to calm things down. Secondly,
you said there was you know, perhaps a little you know,
social drinking involved. And the next rule is when you
have some social drinking, probably not a good idea to
(19:36):
try to resolve issues because it makes our tongues a
little bit looser, the impulse control is it a little
bit less, So wait until your completely sober to talk
about it. And getting directly to your point. Amy, Yes,
sometimes you should wait and say, Okay, things are two heated,
(19:57):
let's take a time out, Let's give it a couple
of and then when we can come back and talk
about it with our rational minds, not so much the
reptilian mind of I gotta win, I gotta make my point.
It's more of it's not about winning, it's about sharing.
It's about learning. It's about growing so we can deal
(20:19):
with the next conflict that comes along, because you know,
they keep on coming, right, and we want to be
better each time. And I think if we follow that
kind of a process, there isn't anything that we can't
solve in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
How did we come out of this one? Would you say?
How did we result? Because we didn't. We started texting
at the end of the morning, and then what I'm you.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Came, I'm actually proud. We've come a long way.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I mean, I think even as friends, we fought like
we thought as coworkers in front, so.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We're not Yeah, but then I knew I could go home.
I don't have to stick it out with you care guys, but.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I do think we have learned. I'm proud we I
think we're pretty good with impulse control. We're not shouting
at each other, we're not none of that's happening. But
I think they're just kind of going to shut down mode.
But yes, the texting is usually how we get back.
I think we both told each other that we missed
each other and that we loved each other.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Okay, you know that's a very good way to open
it up with words of affirmation, words of love. You know,
we don't hear the three most important words in the
world often enough.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
I love you.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
And when you open up any kind of discussion with
your partner with I love you, but I need to
say this, I love you, but this is what I felt.
It really does kind of like open up a door
in a very gentle way to be able to listen
to one another because you're saying, I'm giving you unconditional
(21:46):
positive regard no matter where this discussion goes.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
You said three words. She has a favorite four words.
It's I love you, but no, no kind of. But
it's what comes after the butt that gets us in
trouble there, guard dear, Look, we're dogging here about family
world relationships here, but there's so much people talk about
family during the holidays, and we're still getting through the
(22:12):
end of this holiday season. People spend a lot of
time with family, and you hear the jokes like I
gotta deal with my this, I gotta deal with my
in laws, I gotta deal with my mom and somebody's
giving me a hard time. And but that has a
negative connotation to it around the holidays when it comes
to family. But also isn't family wonderful to be leaning
on in this very difficult time? And we should probably
(22:35):
Oh well, I'll let you say it, if it's the case,
be leaning on our family like this year.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
Round and now more than ever, in this very fractured, divided,
violent world that we live in.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
What do we really have family?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
You know, you talked about Amy, you talked about your
your I believe your grandma passed away. You talked about
your good friend Howard who passed away. We have to
rely and my condolences. Of course, we have to rely
on the people that we love to be our anchors.
And so I know for my Christmas, I really was
(23:15):
very anxious about seeing.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
My family, my in laws.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
You know, some of the people that I grew up with,
Because when you get together at that dinner table. No
matter how old you are, how far you've come, what
you have achieved, it goes back to those basic family dynamics. Right,
Mom always loved you best. Oh, you were the one
who got all the attention. I was the middle child
(23:42):
and I was ignored. So we replay those dynamics. But
this is an opportunity for us to have an emotional replay,
to use our minds in a way where we are
in present day and dealing with a lot of the
past issues, but using our intelligence, our cognition to be
(24:03):
able to talk about these unresolved issues and to address them.
We may not solve them then and there, but it's
important that we be able to continue to address them,
and it may take years, but at least we're talking
to one another. At least we're there, because you never
know who may not be there in the next holiday
(24:26):
Erish who you have right now, because in this uncertain world,
we never know from one day to the next. Love
that person that you are with right now.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's so true, and you know, I think we all
need to be reminded of that during this holiday season.
It's interesting. Obviously TJ and I have had some incredibly
like very very significant life changes, family changes, different dynamics.
And I have now my twenty one year old daughter
(24:59):
from college in the apartment right now with us, my
seventeen year old who's stressed out. She's getting college acceptances
and deferrals as we speak, and so there's just a
lot of I don't want to say tension, but there's
just there's a lot of energy in the apartment.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
And you may want to say tension.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yes, that yep, that absolutely is a part of it.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And then you're throw in her black boyfriend. Oh my god,
doctor Guardia, you talk about stress.
Speaker 5 (25:31):
WHOA, Well, that's that that that listen, that's stability right there,
that's stability.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
If you're hearing it from a black therapist.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
What what is the best way to diffuse the situation
when you've got people who might not always be living
together around each other suddenly thrown into an apartment together.
You know, even as a parent, as a sibling, is
do the rules stay the same based on who you are,
a role you play in the family. How to best
(26:07):
diffuse a situation and to not be triggered? And I
think we all I hear my daughters use that word
all the time. You're triggering me.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Okay, I don't even know what that means, but all right, and.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Whose responsibility is it to maintain their reaction to the trigger?
Speaker 6 (26:22):
Right?
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Right, the right word was tension. So with you, with
your twenty one year old and your seventeen year old
there they are going through a very challenging time of
their lives, as you are going through a challenging time
in your lives, you know, Amy and TJ. So sometimes
(26:44):
we may not have the bandwidth to be able to
look at what it is that, you know, our children
are experiencing. But at the end of the day, as adults,
we are the leaders of the pack.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
We are the alphas.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
So we have to be able to find a way
to allow them to be able to express themselves in
a very constructive way, even if they are irrational, even
if they're feeling a lot of emotion, even if they're
you know, striking out or what have you. It for
you as the leader, it's allowing them to have that space,
(27:21):
yet at the same time being able to give them
the guardrails to say it's okay, it's okay to have
your emotions, it's okay to be anxious. It's okay to be,
you know, overly excited to the point of where you're
stepping on some toes, but learn how to temper that
(27:41):
because that's part of our lives, that's the way that
we do function in a more constructive way.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
We're talking about seventeen to twenty year old here her daughters,
and you talk about potentially being irrational and there of
a certain age, But do you need to extend that
grace to everybody throughout your life? Right? There are grown
folks who can be a rational and we're all looking
for a way, certainly when we're stressed out. And I
wasn't gonna say it, but thank you for that out there.
(28:09):
I didn't want to say it. But what can you
what can you do there to manage people? How much
of yourself should you extend for somebody else's trigger? As
you say, you.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
Know, we we have to try to live up to
a higher standard and not own other people's.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Anks and not own.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
They're some of there. And I'm not talking about your daughters.
I'm talking about sometimes in the general public and what
the two of you have gone through.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Other people's projections.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
We can't own those things and it's so easy to
absorb that negative energy. And when I speak to my patients,
I say, the way that you do that is to
understand what it is that's being thrown at you, expressed it.
You may not have anything to do with you at all.
That is their own intra psychic conflicts, unresolved baggage that
(29:09):
they're carrying around, and they get into something called splitting
where they then project a lot of their insecurities onto
you because they don't want to own their own thing. So,
in some ways, I like to call it flipping the
script and tricking the devil. That person that may come
against you in that particular way, or who may be
(29:31):
rude in front of you, or who may even be
part of your family and is acting out in a
certain way.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
You have to show them.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
You don't have to, but it makes you the better
person to show the grace and understanding of saying, hey,
what's really going on here? How is it that I
can help you, but also showing the grace and understanding
to yourself to be able to say, there are boundaries here,
and there's only so far that you can go where
(30:01):
I either tell you you stop or I pull back
and walk away.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Ro certainly so far that you can go or I'm
going to step back and pull back and I'm gonna
walk away, Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
It's so hard not to be defensive in those moments.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I mean, I have, I have failed a million times
in how I've reacted, and I do think it's okay,
and I've found this to be a very powerful tool.
I say I'm sorry a lot. I don't always get
it right. I don't get it right a lot of times.
And you know, as parents, I always tell my daughters,
I don't have a handbook. I don't know, and I'm like,
(30:38):
you know, talk to your therapist about it.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'm kidding, I'm not, but no, I don't. There isn't
a rule book for any of this.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
We Doug, Doug Dougarder, we are to you. When you
say I'm sorry, it drives me crazy. Why because i'm
sorry comes twenty four hours later, and that's great, that's great.
But I'm always the guy of It's not a matter
of it's how you react in the moment that makes
all the difference in the world, because in that moment,
we have a chance to go this way or this way,
(31:07):
and if you go that way, I'm out. I'm done. Wow,
you know I'm done. I'm checked out for the DAB.
I'm not done done.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Are you How long are you done for?
Speaker 6 (31:22):
When you say your death?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
It's two days?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
No, it's two days, Jeff, it's two days.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I know. I admit that, doctor guardia and that's something
maybe you can't help us with. But I am. I
am really really bad about this. I don't scream, I
don't yell, I don't do anything. I don't name call,
I don't get aggressive and nothing. But I will check
out and you're gonna have to wait until I get it.
I don't need you to say I'm sorry. I don't
need you to help me. I have to work through it,
(31:49):
and I'm I'm trying to get better at doing it quicker,
but it hasn't so far.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Now, well, let's get Jeff's take on this when we
come back. I can't wait. I am taking notes here.
Maybe actually, TJ, could you take notes?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I will do Okay, I'm taking this seriously. We have
a trained professional here, and this is something that we
deal with. I know other people deal with as well,
But how people deal with conflicts arguments in a relationship
and how to get past them and quickly. Sometimes doctor
Gardier is what seems like should be the motivation, But
should that be should that be a goal to get
(32:33):
over it as quickly as possible.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
I think the goal really should be to learn as
much as possible, and if you could learn as much
as possible, that'll help you. Amy said something that I
really like, those two words that we also don't hear
enough in relationships or in the world. I'm sorry. And
when you're saying I'm sorry, it's showing empathy and giving validation,
(32:56):
but it's also taking responsibility as a partners, as a
as a parent, saying yeah, maybe I could have done better.
I don't quite understand why you're so angry at me,
but I'm sure there's something that I could have done,
and I'm going to work on taking more responsibility with that.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Moving on to TJ.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Now, yes, and two days I think I think it
went on to TJ right there.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
I think TJ heard something there. So this so this thing.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
TJ of you know very quickly, it takes you a
day or two to work out your thing. And I'm
saying this to you with all due respect. Sometimes it
can be a little bit selfish when we need to
take that day or two to work it out, and
our partner is left trying to figure out what's going on.
(33:48):
So one of the things that you can do, which
maybe you are doing, is in that one or two
days that you take, you know, to get yourself together,
to reregulate, get your hormonal system working and balanced again,
so you can deal in a positive way in the relationship.
Is checking in yes, I'm working on this, Yes I'm okay, Yes,
(34:12):
how are you doing while I work it out? Those
sorts of things allow you to have the space to
really pull it together.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Okay, And I heard hormonal. So you're saying it's not
my fault, I have a chemical imbalance.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Well, listen, I mean this is all about the brain.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
One of the things we know is you can't separate,
you know, spiritual from psychological from the brain. You know,
a lot of the things that happen when we go
into conflict also affects our brain, our dopamine, our neurotransmitters.
So when we go into fight or flight, it becomes
a very chemical thing where either we stay and work
(34:51):
it out, or we run away, or we freeze. And
so when we reregulate our brains. When we calm down,
then it allows us to see things with a more
rational mind versus with the more emotional mind.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I mean, honestly, I would rather have him yell at
me than freeze me out for two days.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I'm just I'm spiral.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I'm like, I don't know what to say, what to do,
what he thinks some we've tried this before it gets
to that place, and we've only had a couple doozies
where this has happened. But we tried playfully at a
better point to have a safe word when someone starts
doing something or saying something that you know could potentially
take our relationship off the rails.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
We say, what.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Dan Steely? And the reason is that's our safe for it.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
But what is that word?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's is Dan Steely, but it's something that makes us
laugh because the band is Steely.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Dan, right, and TJ had never heard of the band,
and when he was trying to recall it later, he goes,
what's that band called Dan Steely? And I died laughing, No,
it's Steely Dan. But then we decided because it made
us laugh, yes, why not have that be our safe
I guess it's a safe phrase.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
It's not a safe word.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That has a different connotation.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, I know, I know it's safe phrase. All right.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
What do you think about that concept? I think it's
helped a couple of times.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
I think.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
I think when you have a safe word that really
does say let's take the time out and we trust
one another because we agree on that safe word. So
if we're talking about Dan Steely, then we can say,
you know what, Amy, I will come back to you.
Oh he knows, of course, I know Steely, Dan, Come on.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
What song is that I'm sorry?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Come back to it is?
Speaker 6 (36:46):
Peg guy will come back to you?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Right wow? Yeah, y'all got me on this one in
our last few moments here.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
But I gotta ask you, I gotta I gotta ask
you this TJ very quick. So when you take that
day or two away from Amy, it's a way for
you to reregulate, to work through things so you can
be your better self. But are you aware that that's
(37:16):
also pretty painful for her because it's easy for her
to interpret that as he is also being very passive aggressive.
Not only is he healing, but he's also denying me
his presence that I really need in my time of pain.
So might be something you might want to consider, because
(37:39):
we do it all the time, not thinking about perhaps
what the other person might be feeling at that time.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
We had plenty of time for the question. But the
answer is complex. I will tell you I have a
very bad habit. I don't let a lot of people in.
And there are people in my life that I have well,
you know, maybe just friends or colleagues or something. You
you you burn me one time. You do one time,
and I'm done with you, and I will shut people
(38:08):
out and I'm not very forgiving. That is true. But
if I have somebody in my life like this, that's
this close to me, that is the the the person
who brought the pain that I'm feeling. This person is
not going to leave my life. I get that, but
I am still dealing with that thing and grappling with
being hurt so so, so bad, and then trying to
(38:31):
go back and give love or receive love from that
person that pain me. I know, that's what everything you
said I agree with one hundred percent, but that is
oftentimes what's happening with me, and I'm not again. I
don't go away for two days. We don't just stop
talking for two days. But it's not the same. It's different.
I am a very warm and loving and person and
(38:52):
when that goes away, I'm sure that doesn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Oh it's awful.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Sorry, so awful.
Speaker 6 (38:58):
Sorry, And I think I think what might add.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
But thank you for saying I'm sorry, you know, because
that those words are very important, and you're really listening
as to what it is you know that Amy needs
as she listens as to what it is that you need.
You need some of that space sometimes. But I want
the two of you to consider that, you know, everyone
has been through something, you know, really really soul shaking
(39:25):
in their lives. You know you've been You've all been
through things. Other couples have been through things, and so on.
We know this is a very complex matter, but just
focusing on the two of you in the here and now,
consider that even though you have this extremely strong love
(39:49):
and are united in this way, that you're.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Still hurting very much.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
You know, you both smile, you both, you know, appear
to the cameras, you both do your professional gigs, you
both take care of your families, your combined families, but
the two of you are still still in emotional pain
and you're getting stronger every day, but being in that
(40:19):
pain may make things even much more, put you both
in a more vulnerable place when you're dealing with issues
amongst one another.
Speaker 6 (40:30):
Really actually having one another.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
But yeah, that's really powerful. Thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
And I think anyone out there, you know, our situation
isn't unique. It's just unique in that it's been blasted
everywhere and put in a very public space. But I
think so many people can relate to those types of issues.
When you have painful periods in your life, you tend
to take it out, or feel that emotional stress, you
(40:56):
put it onto the person you love the most.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
I think that, well, let's not sugarcoat it's been life
changing for the two of you, what the two of
you have gone through. But what's really important, there's something
called post traumatic growth. We've all heard of post traumatic
stress disorder, where a trauma happens and then you know,
we go through anxiety and depression and you know, flashbacks
(41:20):
and nightmares and conflicts and so on. But post traumatic
growth is about going from being a victim to a
survivor to then being a victor. And I think we
talked about this, you know, way back when where when
(41:41):
you go down that rabbit hole and come out of it,
you are stronger than you ever went in. And hopefully
that is the promise of the two of you to
one another and to your children and to your families,
that you really do become beacons on how to work
through some of the hardest issues, relationship issues that anyone
(42:06):
really can face.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Well, we didn't expect this necessarily to turn into a
relationship counseling session, but it did for us great and
for a lot of folks, because a lot of people
can absolutely use the advice you just gave. And look,
we appreciate it because how much of the relationship counselor
here in New York, Wow, at least three three hundred.
But all we got to do is buy him a lunch.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
When Jeff, thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
There go, thank you so much. We truly appreciate your
incredible words of wisdom.
Speaker 6 (42:37):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
And for folks, as you're getting through the holidays and
you're approaching the New year's now, please remember don't be
so hard on yourself, don't pretend, don't feel that you
have to be everywhere and do everything. Now is the
time to take care of yourself, especially if you need love,
(43:00):
especially if you need the care of your own soul
so that you can eventually be there for others, but
you have to be there for yourself first.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Wow, that's a perfect way to end. Jeff, thank you
so much. We love you, and we'll talk soon, really soon.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Actually, yes, and everybody, thank you so much for listening.
I'm TJ.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
I'm Amy.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
You can catch us, of course on Instagram you can
find us, but also you can follow our show at
Amy and TJ Podcast on Instagram.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.