Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I have to say that when I learned that this
was one person, I was a little flabbergasted. I really was,
because these artists, yes, they're all around the same period,
but their styles are very, very different, and he did
(00:22):
a good job. I mean, there are other fakes in
art history, and as I used to like to joke
when I gave talks, the best fakes are still hanging
on people's walls. You know, they don't even know or
suspect that they're fakes. By two thousand two, an unlikely
trio of con artists had grown rich from their forgery
(00:45):
Schemepra Rosalez had worked her charms and unearthed a dazzling
collection of abstract Expressionist paintings destined for Ann Friedman to
acquire for the Knodler Gallery, and convinced herself that the
works were genuine. She was desperate to squeeze every dollar
(01:06):
of profit she could from the mysterious works works that
had no provenance. Anne had bought the paintings for unthinkably
low prices and sold them at sky high markups. The
profit margin was so high that the Knodler had come
to rely on the mr X Junior collection for its
very survival. Meanwhile, the fraudsters were living the American dream.
(01:33):
Carlos Bergantinos, the ideas man, patient, Kuon the artist, and
Glepara Rosalez, the resourceful salesperson, had executed a scheme that
was paying enormous dividends. Along with rising profits, however, came
increased risk. By two thousand two, Jack and Fan Levy
(01:53):
had spent upwards a four point three million dollars acquiring
master works from Knodler. The biggest prize was a two
million dollar Jackson pollock, identified simply as untitled nine. It
had a greenish cast and measured twelve by eighteen inches.
It was small for a pollock, but impressive all the same.
(02:16):
Before the sale could be finalized, however, Jack Levy insisted
that the pollock be vetted by Eye Far the International
Foundation for Art Research. Up to this point, none of
the works brought in by Glafira Rosalee had been subjected
to forensic scrutiny, and Friedman was so convinced of the
(02:38):
works authenticity that she readily agreed to the Leavi's terms.
The work was already owned by Jack Leavy, so Noodler
was not quote the client or the person who submitted
the work to eye FAR. There's a lot of misunderstanding
in the field about that. I am share and flesher.
(03:00):
I'm executive director of the International Foundation for Art Research,
which is much better known under the acronym FAR. I
FAR as experts provide a thorough and impartial analysis of
visual works of art through profnance research and forensic testing.
I FAR is also well known for their pioneering work
(03:23):
and art theft, having created the first database of stolen art.
I spoke with Sharon in her corner office overlooking the
New York Public Library. I FAR, now a fifty year
old institution, works with researchers and forensics experts to help
authenticate artwork submitted from all over the world. Jack Levy
(03:44):
purchased his pollock from the Knodler with no inkling that
it might be fake. Signing up for an eye FAR
analysis was a mere legal nicety, or so he thought.
Despite the many pollocks that came through I FAR. Sharon
too had no doubts that the Levy pollock would prove
to be right maas initial assumption was, of course, this
would be great. We're going to find a new pollock,
(04:07):
because it would never entered my mind that a work
that wouldn't be good would have been sold through the
Ndler galery. Sharon was unaware of the deal Jack Levy
had struck with Ann Friedman and Nodler, but to her,
having the sale of the Pollock be contingent upon I
far determination of authenticity made a lot of sense. My
(04:30):
logic said to me that someone who purchases a seventh
figure work from a reputable gallery, if the work turns
out not to be what that person hopes and expects
it to be, that they will turn right around to
the gallery and try to get their money back. Usually,
(04:50):
when a buyer asks a gallery for their money back,
the gallery writes them a check instantly as a matter
of course. Reputations, after all, are at stake. But what
if the gallery insists the painting Israel and refuses to
give the buyer their money back. Acting on her gut,
Sharon took an extra measure to protect herself and I
(05:11):
far I insisted that the node Le gallery sign an agreement,
saying they would not sue because there would be nothing
protecting us. Because if we didn't come up with the
positive review I assumed we would. I could just see
exactly what would happen. It would be returned, He'd get
(05:34):
the money back, and then the gallery would say, well,
how can you prove that it's not you're defaming our name,
our character or whatever. It was just a vision I had,
and so I insisted that they signed something, and they did.
I Far began working on the Leavey Pollock using the
same methods they would apply to any painting submitted for authenticity.
(05:58):
There are some steps that are consistent for every painting,
and then each project takes on a slight life of
its own. So we are very committed in general to
what I like to think of as a three pronged process,
which is scholarly research, connoisseurship, the expert eyes. We had
(06:19):
actually quite a few specialists who examined this work, in
some cases more than once, and the physical properties of
the work, which sometimes includes a detailed lab examination forensic examination.
Right away, the scholarly research aspect of I Far work
(06:39):
turned up red flags for starters. The paintings lack of
provenance was a problem for Sharon. We were sent the
skimpiest possible provenance information that one can be sent for
a work that is of a major artist, and of
seven figure value essentially enough. And I actually personally called
(07:02):
Anne I knew an and cultured to give them the
benefit of the doubt, saying, we can be more helpful
on this project if you supply more information to us.
And at that time she actually said, you're researching the provenance,
as I said, of course, we always researched the provenance.
(07:27):
What did you think? And she said, I thought you
would just bring experts together to look at the work
and say whether it's good. I said, we're doing that
as well, But of course we research the provenance and
was in a predicament I far as work was thorough
(07:47):
and consistent. And because Jack Levy had officially submitted the
work to I Far not Nodler, there was nothing Anne
could do to finesse her way out of the problem.
Sitting on Sharon's desk, a deeper I Far dug into
the history of the Levy Pollock the more nervous and
seemed to become for Sharon. The backstory just wasn't adding up.
(08:10):
It was just simply said and relayed to us. It
was acquired through Osario. This was it. The Osorio story
conjured up by gap Rozalice had now made its way
through Ann Friedman to Sharon and I Far. Alfonso Osario
had died, but his longtime partner ted Dragon was still alive.
(08:31):
So I contacted Dragon simply to find out, after he
lived with Osario from many years, could he provide information?
Is he familiar with this work, is he aware of
Osorio ever having dealt with it? And what was Ted
Dragon's reaction? He had never seen the work. He didn't
(08:52):
think there was any connection whatsoever to Osario because had
there been, given his in amit relationship with Osario over
so many years and particularly at that period, that he
would have known if there was a connection. And we
did other research as well, and we could find nothing
(09:14):
to substantiate the Osorio connection. The Osorio provenance was crumbling
under scrutiny from I Far. The whole notion of Osorio
serving as a middleman between dealers and artists went nowhere.
But what about the painting itself. This particular work was
(09:34):
canvas mountain on masonite, which is a type of fiberboard.
Paula did have canvases mounted on masonite. In this case
it was mounted on the rough side of the masonite.
Most of the ones of his that were mounted were
mounted on the smooth side of the masonite, but he
(09:54):
also painted directly on masonite. I can't tell you that
one of the specialists to examine this work immediately was upset.
They felt that it was mounted on that mason I
just so that we couldn't see the back of the canvas.
That's why they're doing it, you know, to hide this.
(10:16):
I put here on the cover of a detail of
the painting. Sharon was showing me the cover of one
of I Far's publications from two thousand sixteen, titled Hindsight
Lessons from the Noler Rosalee Affair. On the cover are
two rectangular photos of Jackson Pollock's signatures on paintings. Red
(10:38):
arrows indicate that one is an actual Pollock, the other
a fake. The photos are zoomed in to show the
detail of the signature itself and the canvas. Here's the
signature Jackson Pollock that's signed on that painting, and this
is the bottom you can see. Here, here's the canvas,
and here's the mason I when Pollock did it, first
(11:01):
of all, he did it on the other side of
the masonite, on the smooth side, and he put some
sizing on it, and over the fifty year period from
nine to two thousand, the masonite with his sizing had
aged and colored completely differently than the masonite in this work.
(11:21):
How interesting. Wow, So you really had there was maybe
a first red flag. For sure. It was more than
the first red flag. We already had some red flags,
as I said earlier, not just the provenance any connection
whatsoever to Pollock. Are their photo archives that show this
work in the background. Are their letters that mentioned a
(11:42):
work that fits this description? We did all of that.
These were the kind of telltale details that led I
far to issue its shocking opinion. We said, we cannot
accept the work as a work by Jackson Pollock. It
(12:03):
is the same as saying I'm writing a catalog raison
A and I'm not including your work in the catalog
raisin A. We couched our words because we couldn't hammer
that nail in the coffin. Absolutely, Anne was pretty ticked,
was she not. Did she not speak publicly and disparage
(12:25):
and she certainly spoke privately and disparaged us two people,
because it got back to me all the time years
later when she felt free to talk about the Leavy
Pollock and I far As rejection of it, and would
blithely say, quote, there was a recent history of bad
feeling between I Far and Knoedler unquote, Hi far As
(12:46):
experts were biased and implied that was why I Far
had nixed the painting, where I felt she impugned our
integrity by saying there was a history of bad feelings,
therefore she wanted to dismiss what we said. First of all,
there was no history of bad feelings that I knew of,
and certainly not during my tenure, and I had already
(13:07):
been here a few years. But more importantly, to assert
that even if there were bad feelings, it might change
our report. I was incredulous that anyone would make such
a statement, because we only exist because of our good
name and our reputation for integrity. We're not going to
(13:30):
assulliate and I'm not going to let anyone else sully it.
With Far's final judgment on the Levee Pollic in two
thousand three, and took the painting back very discreetly. She
returned the two million dollars to Jack Levy contractually, she
(13:51):
had no choice. Shortly after the sale, was refunded and
called a Canadian collector, David Mervish, with news that she
had a wonderful deal for him. Anne was absolutely sure.
She said that I Far had been wrong and that
the painting was legitimate to back up her claim, and
suggested that she herself by a one third interest in
(14:15):
Untitled nineteen forty nine. The gallery would buy a partial share,
as would Mervish. Certainly they would sell the painting at
some point for a fortune. Mervish agreed, and Untitled nineteen
forty nine was duly put aside for that future day.
It's I Far status kept quiet, but the damage was done.
(14:38):
As Anne later said in Vanity Fair, quote, it was
a backfire because Ted Dragon went crazy. Osorio would never
have hidden anything from me unquote. That cast a paul
over the painting and the whole story of Osorio as
middleman for mister and Missus X. Anne asked Glypha, could
mister and Missus X have been wrong had they or
(15:01):
their son confused Osorio with someone else? Glafira promised to
address the issue and then came back with a change
in the story more in a minute, As it turned out,
and was right. Osorio had been in the mix, but
(15:22):
only marginally, Sofia said. The dealer who had handled most
of those paintings for Mr and Mrs X was actually
an art handler named David Herbert. She was so sorry
for any confusion. This is one of those iffy moments
in the story where you raised out one but two
(15:42):
eyebrows and think, wait a minute, how were you not
suspicious when the entire backstory suddenly shifted. That's author Maria Kannakova. Again.
It shows a few things the part of the con artists, obviously,
it shows rate ingenuity and once again listening because Anne
(16:04):
inadvertently told them what to say, because she said, these
are the holes, these are the things that people are
suspicious of. And she even had suggestions, right, maybe was
it this? Was it that? So she threw out things
that they could then use. Once again, the con artists here,
your job is to listen and to figure out, Okay,
(16:26):
what do I need to change? What are they reacting to,
what's working, what's not working? David Herbert working wonderful. Let's
keep him in and try to figure out, you know how,
how we can change the story to the elements that
aren't working, to fill in the parts of the narrative
that are causing us problems. Now, the other element, of course,
(16:49):
is if you're an how in the world do you
not see this. One of the things that I've argued
over and over again is that it's impossible to judge
from the outside, because from the outside your objective. From
the inside, once you're already in the middle of it,
once you're already emotionally involved, your objectivity is gone. It's
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really difficult. It takes a very specific, strong person who
probably would not have gotten into the situation to begin with,
to be able to see clearly in the heat of
the moment, and most people just cannot do that. I
think that she was already so deep in the con
that it didn't strike her as weird. It just struck her.
(17:31):
As we're getting more information, it's on a need to
know basis, as I need to know more, they tell
me more. Whereas for us, when we're looking at this,
we're shaking our heads and thinking, wait, no, no, you're
not allowed to change the story. If you're and you're thinking, oh, okay,
that makes sense, great, wonderful. David Herbert, Now, the key
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figure in the back story was a brilliant race He
was a real person whose modest life and times fit
the larger story a dealer many in the art world
had known. Almost certainly, Anne had heard about Herbert through
Haimi Andrade, since Herbert had been Andrada his best friend
for decades. Also convenient, David Herbert had died just seven
(18:22):
years prior. In his executor none other than Heimi Andrade.
Into Andrade's hands went all of Herbert's files upon his death.
Possibly those files contained bits that might embellish gafa's story
of mister and Mrs X. From what Anne now understood,
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David Herbert had been more than a middleman between downtown
artists and Mr X, setting up sales and taking commissions.
Herbert had been Mr X's lover during long periods in
the nineteen fifties in New York. Once again, for Ann,
and the result was the opportunity to access newly discovered masterpieces.
(19:07):
One key link between David Herbert and the art world
he inhabited was the legendary dealer Sydney Janis. After a
humble start in the garment industry, Janis had made his
fortune by inventing a two pocket men's Oxford shirt. His
true passion however, was contemporary art that led him to
become a dealer, eventually representing many of the mid century greats.
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In eight he opened a fifth floor gallery on Street,
down the hall from another emerging and important dealer, Betty Parsons.
Much to parsons indignation, by nineteen fifty two, some of
her top artists had left her stable and moved down
the hall to Sydney Janis. She was more of an
artist than a dealer. She couldn't quite sell any of
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the works of the artist. That was the problem. That's
Carol Janis, one of Sydney Janis's two sons, who worked
in the gallery with his father for years. One of
the artists who came down the hall from Betty Parsons
was Jackson Pollock. Carol's father liked Pollock's work. He was
also sympathetic to the struggles that came with being an artist.
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He bought a little painting from him during that year four.
He told me that he bought it because Pollock was
so poor that he just felt that he should buy something.
To Betty Parsons lifelong fury. Pollock would move to the
Sydney Janis Gallery for the remainder of his career. Mark
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Rothko came down the hole too. After issuing a modest plea,
he told Sydney Janie that he had to earn seventy
dollars a year to support his family. Could the Janis
Gallery promise him that much? Janis thought it was possible.
In the first year he made fifteen fans and wow,
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he that was big money in nineteen fifty two, over
thousand dollars. Today, most downtown artists survived on a lot less,
some so strapped that they sold paintings out of the
back door, as it were, privately, without the involvement of
their dealer. That was how David Herbert played into the story.
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Herbert was no figment of Ann Friedman's imagination. He was
an art insider who, at different times in the nineteen
fifties worked for both Betty Parsons and Carol's father, Sidney Janice.
Herbert brought clients to various artists studios, introduced those clients
to the artists, and handled the occasional back door selling
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of paintings to help them scrape by in tough times.
He was about five nine. I think he had a
little mustache. He worked with Betty for a couple of years.
I suppose partly as ann handler and partly to talk
the clients coming in. He was not very successful with Penny,
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but Betty came over and somehow take my dad into
giving him a job, which he did give him. He
was also gregarious and liked to talk to the clients.
Everybody started to do was to take clients to artists
studios and tried to sell them works out of the studios.
(22:28):
At first, Sydney Jannis didn't mind. It was something he
was doing and as long as he was doing it
with any of the hundreds of artists in New York
who were not with the gallery and didn't say anything. Unfortunately,
David Herbert's eagerness to help these far flung artists and
(22:49):
perhaps to profit from them, led to a bad end.
Carol recalls Herbert handling money for one very important artist
who was in fact a Jenna artist, Willem de Kooning.
Gave to then and they asked him for an advance
for his studio. He had gave him what he asked for,
fifty dollars, and then the next year he came and
(23:13):
he asked again for not a fifty and then that
was quite a lot in those days. They told him no,
he wouldn't lend into him. So that meant cooning at
the start, selling out of his studio because he needed
the money to pay for the gallery. Yeah, and the
handle that directly because he loved the coon, and the
(23:36):
ning loves the gallery. And now they were at as
because he was selling out of his studio but not
giving the gallery of commission, and David Herbert was in
the thick of it, paying the cooning for works the
painter was selling for money he desperately needed. Herbert had
to go. So one my dad found out about Mattie Well,
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he let him go of imediately. It was easy to
imagine how Anne Friedman could have believed the story of
a feckless art handler who bought and sold works on
his own. By the nineteen seventies and eighties, almost everyone
in the art world knew of David Herbert. He remained
a droll character from the same Demi mond As, Alfonso
(24:21):
Asorio and Jim Andrade. Painter Bill Draper would give two
day parties, as one dealer says, and Herbert would be
there along with his dear friends him Andrade and Richard
brown Baker. There too would be brook Aster, Mayor John Lindsay,
and art Maven Marian Javits. It was an indulgent and
(24:42):
freer time. By then, Herbert had begun to struggle. He
threw in with the distinguished dealer Richard Faken for a
short lived venture no managerial skills at all. Fiken later grumbled.
Despite his lack of funds, her Bert never lost his
sense of humor. He would come into the Knoedler and
(25:04):
pretend he was a collector. It calls a Knodler staffer.
Herbert would say, I'm furious that Kndler has not delivered
my art for three months. I've been calling. I've paid
for it already unquote. He was funny, says the staffer.
By the time David Herbert died, he'd become almost a destitute.
(25:25):
He had a very hard last couple of years, recalls
a friend from his gallery. He was basically living on
friends and really had no retirement money. As long as
David Herbert was alive, these paintings weren't going to come out,
and Friedman said in vanity fair quote. The fear was
that if the paintings came out, while Herbert was alive,
(25:47):
Herbert might have been extremely upset and he might have
revealed the identity of the owner. There's no question that
the paintings would have been paid for with cash. Tax
is not paid, assets not declared, and you can go
to jail for that end quote. So sure was Anne
about the newly modified back story that she even gave
(26:09):
a new name to the paintings coming from Glypia Rosalis.
The paintings, she said, now constituted the David Herbert collection
once David Herbert passed away, and said, that's when Mr
x Jr. Felt he could release these paintings. More than
one Knodler staffer saw a victim in retrospect, him Andrade.
(26:33):
Perhaps Andrade had told Anne stories of his old friend
David Herbert. Maybe he had acknowledged that Herbert might have
sold some of these paintings on the slide. Still, if
he had colluded with Anne and Glyphia, where was the
profit in it for him? Himie did not profit from it.
He never got a commission, so there's nothing on him,
(26:54):
says an ex Nodler staffer. He was horrified by all
that happened. The staffer adds, I you're very sorry for him.
He's a gentleman of the older kind. And now all
and Ratty had was a ghostly cobweb department filled with
South American art next door to the gallery he loved
so much. As for David Herbert, he too seemed a victim,
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even if a posthumous one. It's very easy to put
something on him, because he's not around to dispute it,
said Herbert's friend from the gallery. What should have been
early red flags at the Knoedler Gallery, those early deep
and Corn drawings, that brilliant Rothko and now the returned
Levy Pollock instead remained art world secrets. For now, none
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of them stirred any attention because sales of the works
remained confidential. As it turned out, the Levy Pollock that
I far had judged to be not a legitimate work
was actually one of several Pollocks that Ann Friedman would
eventually snatch up from Gfia Rosales more art fraud in
(28:10):
a minute, No one knew the true story of the
Knodler Galleries finances. Later, when the galleries money manager testified
at trial, he would say that the paintings of the
David Herbert collection were not merely helpful to the galleries
bottom line. They were essential. Without those sales, the k
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Nobler would have been losing big money. By two thousand four,
thanks to his paintings, the Kndler was at least getting by.
Joe Stephens, the Notler's long serving art handler, sensed the
true state of the gallery when he was abruptly fired
after nearly forty five years on the job. My heart
and soul was in that place. I'd love to work
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in there, and I was good at it. To be honest,
I wanted to kill her. I hated hug Guts and
I don't hate anybody, but she made life miserable for
me and the girls by keeping him there. Everything. She
walked three blocks and she's home. I think she knew that.
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I knew things were going on. That's probably why I
got dumped. I don't know for sure. Can we put
it that way as your suspicion? And was now squarely
focused on selling works from the David Herbert collection, and
that was becoming a very dangerous enterprise. By two thousand five,
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the contemporary art market had soared thanks to a fivefold
increase in new billionaires since the nineteen eighties, and the
billionaires loved contemporary art. They loved the status it conferred to.
Most of all, they loved the profits many contemporary artists
were general rating. The new meme was art as an asset.
(30:05):
The market was now more than a place to buy
and sell art. It was a lifestyle. Wealthy collectors jetted
to art fares around the world, greeting each other like
old friends. They attended glittering parties held by the biggest
and most powerful dealers at the Venice Bionale at Art
Basel in Switzerland, and at the Freeze Fairs in London,
(30:25):
l A and New York. Entree to the club didn't
require old money or expertise in art, not anymore. All
you needed to join the club with money and a
willingness to spend it. Art has become the status symbol,
as dealer Gavin Brown put it, the lingua franca of
the wealthy. At some point in the early two thousands,
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Cfra and Carlos attempted to open their own gallery in
the Chelsea neighborhood of New York City. It was aloft
on Nineteenth Street. Carlos called it King's Fine Art. Records
suggest he staged exactly one opening a trio of Cuban
American artists who went nowhere found the gallery ridiculous. You know,
(31:12):
he was a show off, and he wants to presume
that he was a businessman. Of course, did you work
with him at that gallery or now? It? Well, not really,
like I said, It was occasionally in and he was
the one who was putting it together. The Chelsea Loft
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that Carlos opened was a bush league effort to join
the art market in earnest serious dealers. Those who, for
starters dealt in authentic art were in a whole other world,
one that Carlos and could only dream of. By now,
the best abstract expressionist works were all but impossible to
(31:53):
acquire unless she were willing to pay stratospheric prices. Hedge
fund manager Ken Griffin would become famous for buying a
dacooning and a pollock in a package deal for five
hundred million dollars. With all this frenzy, the contemporary art
market rose from roughly twenty billion in two thousand to
(32:15):
sixty three billion in two thousand eight. In the midst
of this hyperactive market, Anne had begun publicly showcasing works
from the David Herbert collection. The mecca for New York
art dealers was the annual Armory Show, hosted by the
Art Dealers Association of America or a d a A.
The Park Avenue Armory is a vast, high vaulted space
(32:38):
that once sheltered Union military troops and their horses. Any
dealer worth their salt was compelled to rent a booth
at the Armory Show, seemingly confident that her latest works
from the David Herbert collection were genuine, and began displaying
the paintings at each a d a a Show. Every
time we got a painting from Glyphira, we'd hang it
(33:00):
in the Knodler's booth at the Armory, and later told
Vanity Fair had anyone found anything wrong, she noted, believe me,
I would have been told take that down off the wall.
She would never take more than one of those to
the Armory Show, notes one ex staffer. It might be
flanked by a great Milton Avery landscape, or maybe a
(33:21):
Robert Motherwell, so it was surrounded by the creme de
la creme with impeccable provenance. It wasn't some po dunk Pollock.
Another ex staffer rolls his eyes at that there was
either a Pollock or a Newman on display at the
Kndler booth. The staffer recalls of one year's display. People
began whispering, you have to go look, but don't say anything.
(33:44):
Everyone knew it was fake. Everyone was laughing about it,
But as Patricia Cohen of The New York Times notes,
they were all instructed by lawyers not to say anything.
Why the fear of being sued. As those brilliant but
baffling works kept popping up, Freedman's fellow dealers made a
blood sport and speculating about which, if any, of the
(34:06):
paintings in the David Herbert collection were real, and why
did Anne Freeman keep promoting pictures one after another that
had no provenance, as one Armory show followed another, and
believe that her paintings were acquiring provenance by simply being exhibited.
(34:26):
Dealers found that absurd bullshit, that it's a building block
toward authentication. One dealer snorted, she kept trotting out this
ship at the Armory shows. I saw the Barnet Newman there,
the roth Coo there, the Pollock there. All were fake,
the dealer muttered to his colleagues. Yet Anne seemed oblivious
(34:47):
to their inauthenticity. The dealer said, if you don't have
an eye, and you don't have the ability to discern
differences in an artist's work, you're lost. I don't care
how much secondary research you do, and left those Armory
shows with a sense of exultation. Her masterpieces had survived
(35:07):
another gauntlet. A few of her rival dealers even through
her a word of affirmation, a vague word or two,
but enough for Ann to go on the Levy Pollock
declared all but fake by e far had incensed Anne
worse and had jeopardized the business she'd worked so hard
to keep afloat The Nodler needed a miracle. Magically, GPA
(35:34):
would conjure up a Jackson Pollock painting so brilliant that
no one would cast doubt on its authenticity, one that
would ultimately command the highest price ever paid for a work.
Emerging from Patient Kwan's garage in Queens must have been
January two twenty and he started talking to me about
(35:54):
the Nobler case. He was warning a tuxedo so as
I was a big formal wedding, and I and well,
somebody told me that Pierre Legrange was a really stupid person.
I said, I think that buying a painting for Man Friedman,
he must be a real dumb shit. He got screwed
for seventeen million dollars. And he looked at me and
he said, on Pierre Le Grand, the seventeen million dollar
(36:19):
Jackson Pollock. That's next time on Art Fraud, Love Last
at a King HEGs, don't be the thing on the
Street of Dreams, Dreams broken into can't be made like
(36:41):
new on the Street of Dreams. Art Fraud is brought
to you by my Heart Radio and Cavalry Audio. Our
executive producers are Matt del Piano, Keegan Rosenberger, Andy Turner, myself,
and Michael sn Ayerson. We're produced by Brandon Morgan and
(37:03):
Zach McNeice. Zach also edited and mixed this episode. Lindsay
Hoffman is our managing producer. Howard Writer is Michael Schneyerson.