BONUS: The Music

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
From Vice and I heart this is authentic. I'm Dexon
Thomas and this is the first of two bonus episodes
FIP hop. So today we're gonna do something a little

(00:34):
bit different. We're gonna do kind of a two version
of the round Table discussion, meaning that we can't actually
physically be around the round table, but we're gonna have
digitally me Tableau and Kyle, who is our composer and
sound engineer, and so yeah, I wanted to get us
together just to talk about the thing that's really at
the center of the series, which is music. So tab Lou,

(00:57):
we got you beaming in from your home in South Korea.
Tell was good to talk to you again, Hey guys. Yeah, yeah,
and we got, of course Kyle Murdock here, So Tableau,
I got to introduce you to Kyle Um. He's a
man behind the curtain. He's the sound designer, the sound
engineer for Vice Audio, and he actually fully composed all

(01:17):
the music for the entire series, including the theme song.
So I want to talk about that in a little
bit Um. But also Kyle is also a DJ and
a producer in his own right, and back in the
day he was signed to Rockets records with your group Pantasy,
Is that right, Rockets? Right? Yeah? Yeah, oh damn yeah,
I've heard your stuff. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, really anything

(01:41):
from Rockets I've I've heard, okay. Yeah, this is what okay,
And this is why I wanted to introduce you to
Right because you know, one of the big things that
brought us together is this really you know, deep and
I think important story. But the thing that really, you know,
taboo you and I brought us together fundamentally in the
background is music. Right. It's hip hop when we would

(02:05):
not have been having any of this conversation, but it
wasn't for that. And you know, even in the last
you know, a few months since we talked, Tableau, I
know a bunch has changed since we last met. You
released a whole album, which when we were talking it
was I think it was the track list was written
in in dry race marker on the door. You were

(02:25):
still trying to figure out the order. So that's out now,
and um and Kyle, you know, we we put together
the series and really put on all this work to
make it kind of sound cohesive. So one thing that
I think a lot about with with music right is
it's something we've lost with streaming, which is, you know,
streaming is great, but being able to go to somebody's

(02:47):
house and look at their CD collection or you know,
the iTunes collection just say okay, I get it. I
have a pretty good idea of who who this person is,
where their background is so tableau. If you were to
narrow it down just two or three, what would be
the records that made you you? You know what, what
turned young Dan Lee into tableau? I think Nirvana's never

(03:11):
Mind mm hmm uh and also Teller Quality, most de
Black Star album okay uh. And I hate to leave
Illmatic out of it, but I think I'm gonna have
to go with Snoop Dogg. Really yeah, his first album,

(03:36):
Doggy Style. Why that is? That is pretty eclectic? Yeah?
Dog Style? Like I could have guessed by listening to
your first record, I wouldn't have guessed Nirvana. I wouldn't
have guessed never Mind. Really, I was really into um, Nirvana,
Smashing Pumpkins. I've always loved hip hop and rock, and

(03:59):
it's sort of represents who I became when I was
listening to the to the albums that I just mentioned,
I think that's sort of where I I was becoming
who I was supposed to be. I felt very at
home with those records. Kyle, what about you. Let's see
a trap called quest my big huge tropical question. Um,

(04:24):
And I can't pick really between the low End Theory
and Midnight Marauders, so I'm just gonna say they'll take
up two of those three slots. Low end theory. Low
end theory, I mean low end theory. I got some fine.
I have fond memories of both, but yeah, I I
can lean towards lowand theory. That was the first cassette
tape I bought UM back in, which is crazy I'm

(04:47):
dating myself, but anyway, and I guess from my third
it would be De las So delas So is Dead.
Like I really love skits, which is probably why I
got into like sound design and creating scenes with sound
um and principle Like that album to me was like
the first time I had really heard anyone like use

(05:08):
you know, besides songs like have a thematic kind of
through line through an album, and I thought it was
really cool. And again that was I think so something
about that year. I was only eleven, but you were
listening to all this stuff too, right, that will Yeah,
try to call quest was actually a name that popped
up when you asked for three records. But you know,

(05:28):
it's kind of savage you're asking for asking someone to
choose a top three, like even a top five. You know,
I hate having to ever choose, you know, the top
five thing? Yeah, top three is just cruel. What are
your what are your top three albums? Then? For for

(05:48):
this question, Uh, I three is hard? Um obviously I
would say me is probably Wu Tang Forever, Dick over
thirty six Chambers. See I I I would taboo. You

(06:09):
and I have sort of a similar situation and that
our parents didn't really want us listen to this stuff,
and so I found Um, I don't know if you
know this, but Walmart back in the day would carry
sort of sanitized versions of all the big records. So
if your parents wouldn't let you have the explicit lyrics
go on, you could just go to the Walmart. They
had Wu Tang Forever at Walmart and you could buy

(06:30):
it and everything was edited out. But it was cooler
because it had kung Fu sound effects over the over
the curses, so it actually sounded cool. It wasn't just
it wasn't bleeps, it was burning. It was yo. I
highly recommend it to anybody. So if you basically did it,
oh no, you can tell you. You can tell. They

(06:51):
didn't give it to the A and R. They didn't
give it to the sensor. They said, Rizza, we need
you to make this and he said, okay, yeah, I
got a bunch of Kung Fu samples. I'll do it.
I would say that. And this compilation this uh, it
was MTV Amp two, but it was just a bunch
of electronic music, which is nobody around me listened to.

(07:11):
And I was just the only person. I'm listening to
drumm and bass and techno. I don't know what any
of this stuff is because nobody in my hometown knew
what this was. But it just, you know, that's what
actually got me into DJ and you know, doing college
radio stuff. Probably those and two very strange picks. Yeah
clean clean version of Utan Forever and MTV app Yeah

(07:32):
man too, because that's what that's what there was. That's
what they had at the store. Drum roll for the
third one, what's your third pick? Why? Cleft John's the Carnival.
I'm not saying that's my favorite record, But I am saying, yes,
the skits, the skits are phenomenal and just the through
line between everything he takes you just places you didn't

(07:55):
think you were gonna go the set? Are you talking
about the song? Pocket? You talking about? That was like
from another But if I was to take it to
things that I thought really hit me musically, it would
probably be Eric about duds debut a fourth Yo. You

(08:20):
you you went. You kind of fudged it to man,
Come on, You're allowed to do that. I'm the host,
bro okay, whatever, Okay, But but speaking speaking about that, okay,
I think we have all these but part of that,
I want to take this back a little bit. One
of the things that that we worked a lot on

(08:43):
is uh is the theme song. And so you know,
I know, I know you're you're usually in the other seat,
but maybe I'll ask you to sort of be the
music journalists here tableau. Um, the theme song? How do
you feel about theme song? For this one? I loved it,
And I also loved the rest of the audio production.
I mean it, I only heard the first two episodes

(09:06):
as we're doing this right now, and um, the audio
production was like miles above what I imagined it could
be because we just had conversations, but it became like
it became something because of the audio production and the music.

(09:29):
Everything was so so good. So Kyle like, seriously, thank you,
you did an amazing job. Yeah, it was awesome, man,
just working on it, just helping to tell your story,
you know, um, plus as a music producer, you know,
at the flex a little bit and just let people
know it's funny because tell what you may me not

(09:50):
realize this, but I listened to your early records and
I was putting that plus the stuff you were saying,
because I was kind of in the back of my mind,
I knew, Okay, we're gonna have to have a theme song.
Do we do this? So we were actually kind of
trying to reverse engineer young dan Lee Young tableau into
what sounds like something he would have dug And so

(10:12):
Kyle and I went back and forth on this. You know,
it's just all right, man. You know that there's gotta
be some horns in there that sounds like Pete Rock
and we we we were arguing over the bpm. He
added a hundred. I was just yo, slow, you gotta
slow down the nine four and he's all right, man,
we'll try it. And it was a lot. It was
a lot, So I'm gonna feel like it. That's a
very That's an interesting way to like produce a bat

(10:37):
you know, reverse engineering it so that it reflects someone's life. Yeah,
And like I've been making music about my story for
like two decades and I don't think I've ever done that.
It was a fun challenge to say the least. Shout
out to one of our producers, Stuff Big, because she

(11:01):
sent a Spotify playlist of like all your influences or
you know, like from from obviously Atomatic to um Bob Dylan,
and it was like, yo, what Yeah, it just has
to sound like the Atomatic and Bob Dylan. Yeah, right, right,
right right. I think when you do music and both

(11:24):
of you all can can speak this so just as
a creative like it should be a challenge, Like there's
no challenger. It makes the you know, the end result
like not as satisfying. You know, if if you think
about even just how it started, right and you know,
just I think when all the peoples are coming up,
we all grew up, you know, three separate places, and
we have these different influences, but there's something about just

(11:47):
how hip hop culture works, where if you're gonna do
it right, you have to have the background, you have
to have kind of this knowledge of it. I mean
even if you go way back to the first parties
and you know in New York, Yeah, it was this
new genre. But what were they playing. They were playing
their parents records, and so you had to know about

(12:08):
just all you have to know all of this different
music and I mean, tallow, that's something you could hear,
especially in your first few records. Yeah, like soul samples
weren't really a thing yet in Korea at the time.
Um and Uh. We we wanted to make sure that
the album reflected the things that we were listening to, um,

(12:34):
you know growing up that the music that we liked.
We wanted the first album to reflect the influences all
of those rappers and hip hop musicians that influenced us.
I didn't want it to just sound like illmatic. I
wanted it to sound like what Nas must have been
listening to when he was a kid. Yeah, and so

(12:58):
it had to be like a crash course for um,
everybody in Korea that you know, it was just finding
rap a novelty at the time. Um, we had to
explain like the whole sampling thing and how it's not plagiarism,
and there there's still debates about like sampling, like how

(13:20):
how can you take someone else's music and just put
some drums on it? And we're like a lot more
is happening than that. Yeah, and uh but but yeah,
like it's not like everyone's still it's not like everyone

(13:41):
already gets it immediately, but um, but it's it's a
lot better than before. Since you've if we've talked, you've
dropped an entire album and there's a whole bunch of stuff.
There's a big catalog we can go through. So I've
spent a bunch of time in your music. But also
know the Kyle has um, you know, what the hell

(14:01):
did you just do it? Like this? Kyle? You got
a favorite? You got a favorite track? You gotta favorite
every high song. I think the album that has kind
of you know, resonated with me the most map of
the human soul. I think it's really resonated just and
I can hear it like because it's it's interesting. Like
when I started listening to it, I had to go
and I was like, when when was this release? Because

(14:23):
now it makes sense that you're saying that you all
were somewhat playing cash up. We're not you, per se,
but the people in Korea listening because that style with
chopping up in the boom bap like almost like the
DJ Premier style with the cuts and stuff. We in
the US have been spoiled. We've been doing that since
like the you know, ill matic and p rocking Seale

(14:44):
smooth Gangstar like, so it's interesting to hear it's almost
like it was a few years later. But it's also
you gotta key perspective trying to keep it pool not
int Safina walk. So Hannibal this actlutely. I was working

(15:07):
with the producer. I told him, I want to do
something that sounds like de La Soul. So you're you're
totally right, Like, uh, we were trying to like capture
things that we felt for the for the decade building
up to when we released their first album. Because by

(15:28):
the time we released their first album, people had moved
on to like Swiss beats, beats um a lot of
meaty uh and you know the whole like chopping up
and using vinyl samples was sort of uh, not in
fashion at the time already. So in Korea, what was strange?

(15:49):
They just jumped from very amateurish beats too, like what
was trending, like Swiss beats um and also like you know,
the whole like Destiny's Child kind of beats, like very
highly produced and yeah yeah, and they had just skipped

(16:11):
over like the entire nineties with the with the cassio keyboards,
like I used to hate Swiss beats with the that
was his thing, like he would hit a key and
it would make a scratch. Let go, jigga, jigga. I
was like, dude, where that was great? And now it's amazing.
Now it's like now, yeah, man, people don't make beats

(16:34):
like Swiss beats and no more right, you know, you know, Okay,
I want to take this sort of a different direction
because mine, my personal favorite actually track is wish you
were Hm. That's it for me, man. For the last
few years, it's been so I've been to stay home

(16:55):
there my daughter to sell the pain and whisper stay
home and people's take. I have a lot of thoughts
about that, but I would love to hear yours. Where
where were you when you were making that? What what
prompted that? Yeah, like we didn't have this when that

(17:16):
album was done. Basically it was felt like the album
needed a proper last track, and you know, you know,
as producers, you know like, um, some beats and some
songs take like months to finish, yeah, and then there

(17:36):
are songs that like literally take ten fifteen minutes and
you feel like you have it. Yeah. I just went
into booth and I was like, I'm just gonna do
like one two lines at a time, and I'll try
to come up with the lyrics. And that's why it
sort of just sounds like half narration, not even really
a full rap. So what was it you were tapping into?

(17:58):
Because I'm the good about what you're saying, right, yeah? Um.
So at this time, uh, there was like this whole
thing going on like online, like in in hip hop
forums and even in our fan chats about like how

(18:19):
EPICCAI is. You know, they're all you know, two of
them are dads. Yeah, but you know like their dad's
you know, they're old. Some of our fans were just
shipping on us and someone called me like a stay
home dad and um, and I'm like, well, aren't we

(18:40):
all like stay home at this time? And that's where
like the whole uh exchange with my daughter thing happens
because I told her, I was like, you know, people
are calling me like a dad, which I am, but
you know, when you call a rapper a dad, I'm
I'm not sure that they mean it and a good way.

(19:00):
And She's like, I like it that you're you're a
stay at home dad. I mean, for me, this is
why I like it. Honestly for me, man, that track
is the best disk track of the last past few
years that I've heard it, hands down, Yes, bro it
that it's cold because I think in some ways it's

(19:26):
very you know, it's it's very thoughtful, right, But the
in in the back of it, I also here you
where are your priorities? You know what I mean. I'm
I'm being a great dad. How is that not something
you think is a good idea? We're all very used to.
And I love this stuff, right, I love listening to
rappers rap about you know, the cars and the money

(19:47):
and all this stuff. But yo, I'm chilling with my daughter. Yeah.
I mean, I think even with uh, the the stuff
that I went through, UM, which you know was at
the center of authentic UM. I think one of the
reasons why I was able to withstand it a bit.

(20:12):
It's because people usually attack what they think is important
to you, and in hip hop, they will attack your ego. Um,
they'll say something like, you know, you know, you're poor,
like your your record sales aren't doing good, you're washed up. Yeah,

(20:33):
you know, yeah, it's all status stuff. Yeah. But the
thing is, uh, none of that ever really mattered to me.
I'm not saying that like I'm above it, but it's
just I'm a different person and those things aren't at
the top of my priority list. Yeah. And that's kind
of what I was here, you know with even with
the title wish you were It's like, Yo, I'm I've evolved, man,

(20:56):
get on my level. I cook really good round from
my daughter. Dude, I am if we get together when
I'm in the States, I'm making Roman for you guys.
I am literally top like, not even top five, I'm
like top one or two Lamar or j Cole of Raman. Okay,

(21:20):
I want to keep going with this, but we gotta
take a quick break. We'll be right back. So we're back.
And and one thing I wanted to touch on a
little bit is, you know, aside from the music that

(21:41):
there's a sound design, right, which sometimes may not be
so obvious, but but it's really part of what what
helps you go to a place, what helps you feel
like you're somewhere. So I want to throw this to you, Kyle, Um,
was there was there anything that you found challenging about
bringing this ory sort of alive because you know, me,

(22:02):
me and Tally we just sort of chopped it up
for hours, right, you had to make people feel like
they were there in the room with us. At another
prior job, they used to cause audio animators and I
like that because it's like the idea of taking things
that you normally would see or image and using sound
to bring them to life. So, Um, I think about
two things stand out to me. Um. One of them

(22:23):
was Hung Day scene. That that scene in particular because
it reminded me of being in college. Yeah yeah, yeah, Kyle.
I mean love what you're saying here because a lot
of this, you know, the way, the thing that made
it work was being able to hear us there. So
I'm gonna play this right now. Hung Day is the
name for a neighborhood that's around hung University, and in

(22:46):
the early two thousand's it was the hip hangout for
young people who were into art and music all right,
one to one to check one two one two. During
the daytime hung they looked like any other college area,
small cafes, boutique shops, that kind of thing. But at night,

(23:06):
the local pubs, bars and clubs transformed the neighborhood. The
central gathering points was this neighborhood, and also specifically there
was most of the nightlife targeted young college kids, so
the drinks were cheap, the music was loud, and a
lot of the clubs were literally underground. It's amazing, um

(23:29):
because I actually lived it right and um, as I
was listening through, like hearing it right now, like with
my eyes closed. Um, it really does feel like I'm
back there, you know it just with the uh, with
the music, but also the way the noise is overlaid

(23:50):
on it. Um, it really does take you back. And
and I love that that phrase audio animator. I'm gonna
start using the I'm putting that on my LinkedIn like
because that's so accurate. Um. Yeah, I really believe where
in an age now where audio is is so much

(24:14):
more powerful than people know. How did you how do
you take us there? Just listening. And also I think
story beats, like making sure there's this room for like
literally the beats I'm putting into actually like breathe and
like hit four minutes, like to break up the narration.
Good writing. So shout out to our producer Stuff k

(24:37):
who wrote that episode. I've been working as an audio
animator since I left college in two thousand and one,
and obviously it takes iteration. It took some hours, and
like if people saw the amount of time I was spending,
particularly just doing one que and one scene, they'd be like,
that's crazy, But I'm like, no, that's art. Tabloo kind

(24:58):
of has the I think I've seen this before, the
sort of the I'm taking notes. Look, okay, I see this.
Hell's done. I'm thinking to myself, I need a beat
from Kyle. Yo. That can be a rain next time
we do something, I need to beat from Kyle because like, dude,
it's just it was really good. Thanks man, that's awesome.

(25:21):
I saw I saw you nod in your head as
it was going Yeah, when you're closing your eyes and
dot in your head. I felt that I need a
Kyle beat. Yeah, that are you kidding me? That's like
the greatest compliment. That's the biggest thing. I was asking
all the time, all the producers. I was like, yo,
I'm glad y'all like it, but I I would like
it like this is his story, you know what I'm saying.

(25:42):
Like he has to be proud of it too. So anyway,
that's thank you, that's awesome, and please let's collaborate for sure.
Yo yo yo. I think I think we we accomplished
something today. There's something Melson there speaking of Hungay, right,
there's the restaurant across the way the we went to.
You remember that one? Yeah, yet that you're going there?

(26:03):
So talking to j Win, it was wow because I
think the woman, probably the you know, was running the place.
It's the same person was running it. So I went
in and it's it's a tiny little place you're talking about,
the place with the the the grandma. Yes, okay, I
was there yesterday, no joke, no joke. She was really

(26:30):
mad at me for not showing up for a while.
Really yeah, she got really mad. But um, you know,
she she's like it's like it's like it's like a mother,
you know. And she tried to make us like just
leave without paying. So h one of us had to
distract her and then we we used the machine and

(26:51):
we we charged ourselves. Basically, what's interesting is the only
aartists that she uh remembers and still knows that that
was always there um is us and g Dragon and

(27:12):
Twang from Big Bang. So if you go there, you
must have seen the pictures. There aren't many pictures. It's
just Epiccai and she Dragon and Tang And I'm like
something was in the food because it's maybe the last
thing left of uh of at Piccai in Home Day

(27:40):
at that time. Yeah, everything else is gone. So there's
kind of speaking of that that early arrow, right, Um,
I know one of the things that we got into
in the episode, on some of the episodes a little
bit was just the ability to explore sort of different styles, right.
And then how in the early days, you know, hip
hoppy could be kind of kind of insular, you know,

(28:03):
I mean a very sort of No, it's got to
sound sound like this tablet wood, you know. How looking back,
how do you feel about that that time when you
know you were getting some static from the hardcore hip
hop heads about about your sound, you know, especially for
your third album. I mean, I didn't disagree with them.

(28:25):
You know, I was fully aware of what I was
doing and the uh backlash or whatever I would get.
I think it's just the way I was raised. Um
My parents, as you know now, were extremely strict. So
the more they try to make me not do something,

(28:49):
the more I would, you know, the harder I would
work to do it. And I think that was the
same case with with doing music in Korea. Like when
I came in into hip hop, like I really had
this fantasy expectation of you know, the hip hop scene

(29:11):
must be different. You know, there's the industry, but there's
the hip hop scene. And the hip hop scene in
Korea wasn't big at the time, so I felt like
it it should be very, very tight, and um, you know,
it's just it's like a it's like a whole underground
vibe and we're all in this together. We're experimenting and
all this stuff. But it was just as close minded

(29:36):
as the industry. Like immediately, um, you know, they didn't
want us to sound a certain way, and I did
hip hop because I wanted to like go against the grain.
But yeah, if I have to abide by these rules, uh,

(30:00):
I'm gonna hate doing this, and the only way I
can love it is going in the exact opposite direction
and pushing it so far that they eventually have to
accept it, which is actually what happened. Um, after we
did that for years and got basically shipped on by

(30:21):
the hip hop heads, they all started doing like E
D M and like you know, one PM, they all
started doing like vocal features MHM and and now and
now we're back to like just beats and wraps and stuff.
So yeah, it's hilarious how things change. Yeah, man, I mean, Kyle,

(30:46):
you were you were on rockies at this point. What
I mean, so you were in the middle of that conversation.
What was that like for you? Because artist wise, you know,
you're you're pretty contemporary to each other. Yeah. I signed
a rock Gison end of two thousand and five, so
I think it was right after Swan songs. And even
aside from rockets, it's a funny story that kind of

(31:07):
overlaps with epic High because back when I was an
audio animator, I worked for a company then called x
M Radio satellite radio, but now it's serious x and Radio,
And that was my day job as an audio animator engineer.
But in the on the side, I hosted a We
called it progressive hip hop because we didn't want to
say backpacker, independent, underground. We just went to brand the

(31:30):
different and we were trying to play stuff that was
just out the box, like you know, um And ironically
we were getting Service records from different places across the
world and we got epic Highs album. And it's funny because, yeah,
I think in a lot of ways, what you all
were doing with uh Fly was actually no one was

(31:54):
doing that in two thousand and five. Like the music
we were playing on the Service at the time was
probably was not sounded like that. So in a lot
of ways, you all were kind of ahead of the
trend that eventually I feel like it was adopted more
here where you would hear stuff again that's a little
bit more up tempo, a little bit more dance here
with with vocal features, because a lot of stuff we

(32:15):
played was more boom bab, you know, even in two
thousand and five, And the stuff that I was doing
on Rockets was kind of like was was probably more
akin to what you were doing on Fly. With my
group Pannasya, it was like the opposite thing. Like the
label folded in two thousand nine, and um, we we
went back to being independent and I got more into

(32:37):
radio and you know, so it's like not a dream
defer because I'm very happy that about that time, but
it's like, it's just cool to see that across the world.
And so this was happening to a group that was
similar and y'all, y'all did it. So yeah, it's really cool.
It's a cool story, that's an interesting overlap. It's it's

(33:00):
so weird. Yeah, yeah, I definitely remember getting the album.
It's so weird because yeah, like I said, y'all two
actually knew each other. You you two knew each other's work. Yeah,
and you didn't even know that. Yeah, and then here
it is, we're we're all working on the same project together.
And and of course, like the way we went against

(33:20):
the grain is kind of different from what other people
in the States or something like it might be used
to with like progressive. Um, but I've a I've always
been been a fan of that. Like trick called Quest
I loved for that precise reason. Gala Soul, Black Alicious,

(33:43):
Oh my god, yeah, Hieroglyphics, all of these artists were
even far side was you know, like perfect name because
it was really far out ye. And I've always been
a fan of that, and I just did it in
my in the way that was possible for me in

(34:04):
Korea at the time. So there's there's one thing taboo
that that you said to me during the course of
our interview, right, And you were talking about, you know,
suffering as an artist, right, and I it was something
like that. A lot of people say that, you know

(34:25):
that there's sort of this idea that we have of
the tortured artist, right, and it's suffering births great art.
And you said something that really hit me. Would you said,
it's it's not worth it? Yeah, Like, honestly, I liked
it until I became it mm hmmm. Uh. I had

(34:50):
and idealized, you know, view of that as well. Growing up,
I always identified with artists who had suffered a lot
until I became that artist and I realized, oh my god,
it's I'm human, and so so were all these artists

(35:11):
that I was looking up to. They shouldn't have had
to go through all of that to to give me
inspiration or give me a song, or give me a
film or a book. How do you communicate that to
a fan that Yo, this whole tortured artist narrative, this story,
this storyline is actually destructive. Yeah, because the love that

(35:42):
fans show an artist, I appreciate it fully, one, I
fully appreciate it. But we can't say that it's permanent. Yeah. Yeah,
I think just communicating that, or even even communicating they're

(36:02):
even having that conversation. It seems so so difficult because
I mean, as as you said in and well before
this thing dropped, right you newest record, um is that
you continue to have a lot to say. Obviously m
hm you you and the rest of Epic High you
are not out of stuff to say, which I mean,

(36:23):
you know, we can get into it. You're album just dropped. Yes,
how are you feeling When we were talking you were
in the middle of it. Yeah, I'm I'm very happy. Um.
People say that it speaks to them and they really
love the album. Um, maybe this has to be like
an end piece because I don't know, like I didn't

(36:47):
know people would love it this much. Okay, okay, hold on,
you're for for clarification because we're going to get a
lot of messages about this. If we do not clarify this,
you're not talking about stop making records. Are you I'm
not talking about like retiring or quitting uh Epicai, I
don't think that's even possible. We're more like a family now, right, Um.

(37:12):
But album wise, I don't know. I feel pretty content
with if this has to become the last album, like
if I don't know if it will. But I mean,
if any of us three suddenly like has financial troubles

(37:34):
and calls and it's like, it's like, get in the
studio and record for me because I am fucked, dude,
people are coming after me. I need I need to pay.
I need to pay help within the week or I'm gone. Um,
if that happens immediately, I'm I'm I'm in the studio

(37:56):
recording an album, right, you know to save two cuts? Right?
He said two cuts specifically? Yes. Ah. But if not
and and this this, like it just turns out to
be the last album, I would be happy with it too. Wow,

(38:18):
that's big man. I kind of want to like do
other things as well. And I feel like, um, I
don't know, I've always felt weird rapping ever since I
was forty, ever since I hit forty, And people always say, hey,
but there's jay Z yeah, jay Z has billions? What

(38:44):
does that change? I'm like they always say, but but
you know jay Z because they can't come up with
another name. Okay, okay, so what's next? If somebody you
can't wrap, you gotta stop, you gotta do something else.

(39:04):
I'm and and just to clarify for fans, I'm not
saying I'm quitting. I will. You know, music is a
part of my life. It's it's just it's it would
be akin to me not living. Yeah, as long as
I'm alive, you'll get you'll get music from me. But um,
I don't know. I feel like this is my last

(39:25):
chance to just again try something new. I I don't
know what it is, but I am interested in in
the whole world. Um, I'm interested in everything concerning the future.
And even if I even if I you know, I

(39:48):
have to start back at the bottom. I would love
to try new things as well. Would be a journalist,
maybe an audio animator. Hey, I'm I'm not saying I
don't want to be a journalist. But that's all right. Hey, listen,
it's not for everybody, man, It's not for this. You know,
there's reason I'm not a rapper. Aside from the fact

(40:08):
that I can't wrap. Um, it's like a rough gig.
That's also a big part of it. But other than that,
I don't think it's that important anymore. Okay, all right,
before we get into the disk track uh portion of
the podcast. UM, I think we probably got a rapid here. Yo.

(40:29):
Thank you so much both of y'all for taking the
time and just you know, sharing your music journeys. Um
tableau as always absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Like, UM,
you know, it's it's been a while since I've had
this kind of conversation. It took me back, UM, and
I feel like I'm, you know, back in college, like

(40:52):
listening to music, and you know, I might go out
and re buy some of these CDs. Like, I really
enjoyed this conversation. Kyle. I'm gonna hit you up for
a beat whenever I do something like in the States,
ok and Dexter, You're you're gonna wrap on it because oh,
if you if you want to see your sales plummet,

(41:15):
I can do that for you, my man, I'll do
the intro. Tell you what, tell you what? All right,
this is these official the official collab Kyle, You're making
the beats, tell who you're rapping, I will do some
sort of intro and it will call it a day perfect.
But yo, for everyone else, we have one more bonus
episode coming out next week, and that wasn't going to
be another deep dive into one of the main themes

(41:35):
of this series. You do not want to miss that.
Authentic is a production of Vice Audio and I Heart Media,
Produced and reported by Stephanie Karayuki, Minji Ko, Kate Osborne,
and myself with Janet Lee, Stephanie Brown, and Sam Egan.
Sound design and original music composition by Kyle Murdoch with

(41:59):
the Dish the support from Natasha Jacobs. Our supervising producer
is Janet Lee, editing from Lacy Roberts, fact checking by
Minji Kop and Nicole Pasuka. Our executive producer and VP
of Vice Audio is Kate Osborne. From I Heart Podcast Network,
executive producers Nikki Tore and Lindsay Hoffman. I'm Dexa Thomas Jr.

(42:21):
Follow this feed to not miss an episode when they drop, Rate,
review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be
sure to check us out on Twitter at Vice. See
you all next time.