November 3, 2025 • 33 mins
Last week we dove into the topic of the menhaden fishing industry or pogie boats along the Louisiana coast, and the growing concerns from recreational fisherman and wildlife biologist. This week we will be hearing from a representative from menhaden industry to share their side of the story. The timing of this crucial because this Thursday, November 6, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries Commission will be voting to potentially change some of the buffer zone laws, which directly affects where these menhaden boats are legally able to fish.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the first ever bonus drop of Backwoods University.
As many of you know, Backwoods University is traditionally a
bi weekly show. However, last week we put out an
episode titled Hogy Boats, and in that show, we dove
into the growing concern and controversy surrounding the commercial min
haden fishing industry. And one of the things that I
(00:24):
specifically notated in that show was that I wanted to
be able to present both sides, but unfortunately I cannot
find anyone from the commercial fishing side to speak with me. However,
that has since changed. I have someone from the industry
to talk to. And also, this is a very time
sensitive issue. There are a few potential law and regulation
(00:45):
changes in boats taking place this very Friday in Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So, as I.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Promised, my aim is not to tell you how to think,
but to simply present the facts in both sides of
the story. So here's my conversation with the commercial fishing representatives. So, so,
Ben Landry, you are the vice president of Public Affairs
and you oversee regulatory communications for ocean harvesters.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is that that correct?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, it's correct. So we have.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Two facilities in the Gulf. We've won in Moss Pointe, Mississippi.
We have won in Abbeyville, Louisiana. We also harvest been
Hayden on the East coast in Reidville, Virginia.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so what I'm gonna do? I have I have
some questions that I want to ask you. But but
at the point that this episode will come out, the
original Pokey Boat episode will have been out for about
a week, maybe a little bit more. And so one
thing I wanted to be sure to do was just
kind of give you an open floor if you you've
(01:47):
had a chance to you know, see some of the
stuff that came out, see some you know, hear the episode,
hear what was talked about. So before I have you,
before I have any of the questions that I have
for you, I want to just give you an opportunity
or to respond to any of the off that was
covered in the episode as is.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Okay, So you know, thank you, And you know, having
watched the video, the podcast, and you know, live this
life for twenty years, you know there's a lot of
misconceptions about the fishery, and you know, the guys that
you had in the video are incredibly passionate. I would
(02:26):
never suggest that they don't know what they're talking about.
I mean, they seem to be experts in their field.
But I do think there's other perspectives, you know, the
concept of well. First off, the one thing that just
always gets me is this foreign ownership being a factor
in any of this, and it's simply not the case.
Both fishing companies, both ocean harvesterers, and our competitor who
(02:52):
we've kind of been working shoulder to shoulder with on
these regulatory issues, West Bank Fisheries, the both American ome
American owned, American operated. The processing where we deliver Manhaden two.
That company Omega Protein, and their's is Daybrook Fisheries. Those
(03:13):
are owned by a Canadian company in a South African company.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
But in terms of the fishing, the vessels that people see,
those are American owned.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And you know, I heard one of your guests just
you know, it always just strikes me as kind of
a scare tactic, this idea that foreign entities are coming
and taking us men Hayden, And one, it's not true.
In two, it hasn't changed in any way the fishing operation.
I worked for the company prior to the acquisition, at
(03:47):
least the Cook acquisition in twenty seventeen. And I can
show you our fisheries prosecuted the exact same. I can't
speak for the other company, but you know we harvest
the same fashion. We we don't. There hasn't been a
change in philosophy of becoming more aggressive or you know,
let's uh, you know, create or be damned with user conflicts.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
That's not what's going on here.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I mean, there's Americans working there flying the US flag,
and you know, when we're perceived as outsiders, uh, it's
a bit offensive to us. So that's one thing, I
you know, just off the top. I wanted to mention.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
One thing that that I that I appreciated from the
guys that I heard from, because there was three different
individuals on that episode, and all three of them weighed
in and saying like, hey, our in engineers not to
you know, because it's not not to shut anyone down
or cost anyone. They're very clear in saying that, and
I thought that was respectable of them. One of the
(04:51):
things that they were they were pushing for is that
the the or the hot the hotter of the topics
is this buffer zone, right and We saw some of
that as well in the YouTube shorts, in the social
media post. You know, maybe there's a lot of talk
in folks wanting to extend.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The buffer zone.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I know there's talk now about wanting to take the
buffer zone away. Why is that so crucial to your operation?
What is that buffer zone? How does it affect you?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, this is what this is all about.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
To me again, I worked, I started, I came over
to a Mega Protein and now you know, I'm on
the fishing side in two thousand and five, and we
didn't have any of these issues until that twenty twenty
and it was all about where you can fish and
(05:46):
to us, I mean, the simple question is that's where
the manhaden are.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
You know. Unfortunately, that's where the prize.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Sports fisher are as well, close to shore. So you
just have an inherent user conflict. I mean I grew up.
You probably passed through my hometown when you went down
to grand Isle. I grew up in Thibodeau in Lafouche Parish.
So I've been to grand Isle countless times and have
recreationally harvested fish for as long as I can. Where
(06:15):
my dad goes as often as he can user conflicts
occur within sectors, right. You know, if you're fishing and
you see two other boats come near you that are
recreational fishing, you get kind of upset too. We obviously
have a much bigger footprint there because you can see
us on the horizon a little bit faster, a little
bit easier. But I just think this has always been
(06:38):
about user conflicts of moving us moving those boats away
from the coast, and you know, there hasn't been any
data that illustrates that that's better than something else, and
particularly if that's where the bulk of the menhad a
going to be, then we believe we should have the
right to harvest in those waters. You know, we saw
(07:03):
the buffer zone get moved back a little bit and
then you know, obviously Grandu has the much bigger buffer
because there was some acknowledgment that that's kind of a
recreational fishing hotspot. There was no disagreement from the fishery.
There was a gentleman's agreement to stay three miles off
of the island itself dating back probably two decades. So
(07:24):
getting that into the code a few years ago, you know,
it was something that we didn't fight or anything we
honestly kind of hope that it would happen, you know.
And then another buffer was put in front of Holly
Beach and Cameron Parish in southwest Louisiana to protect those
tourism dollars because we understand that, but you know, we
(07:45):
believe that you know, outside of those areas and other
recreational fishing hotspots, you know, this company should have every
right to harvest those fish as anyone else. And you know,
we would always ask for respect full fishing out there.
And I talked to my captains a lot, and I say, listen,
you can legally go catch that fish, but you know,
(08:09):
if there's a bunch of boats around, maybe consider passing
on that set and go and find them elsewhere. We
don't go out looking for for user conflicts. And yeah,
I think that's something that you know, just from communication,
we could all improve.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
On, right.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And so that's what that leads me to something that
like I have to ask about probably one of the
more notable ones. I think it's about like a you know,
a couple months back, it was recent and it was
before I mean as well, before I had even started
working on this episode. There was a video some guys
were tarp and fishing I think a couple of tarpating
(08:44):
up on the net. Obviously I wasn't there, but like
the record from from several of the folks that were
there was that the story went that there was communication
between them and the commercial boats and there was there
was unication going, hey, we're fishing tarpin right here, you know,
please stay out something along those lines, and then they
(09:06):
came in any way.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And tarpin were killed. That's how that's how it came across. Yeah,
I heard, I heard the story right right.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
How I mean, you look at instances like that, uh,
and it's like there's got to be a way one like,
was that was it right for those guys to carry
out their commercial fishing in that way? Is that a
kind of instance that can be avoided? Because that's that's
where like those instances as far as like if I'm
(09:38):
if I'm taking off the unbiased hat and I'm trying
to say, you know, if I'm on the side of
commercial fishing, I'm like, hey, guys, we want to avoid
that one. That would be my standpoint. But explain to
me from your perspective, like how something like that happens
do you try to avoid something like that?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Is that a worry? Just just kind of break that
down for me.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Well, no, that's great, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.
The vessels that there were, as I remember, there were
two Menhaden vessels that came nearby some Tarpaid fishers fishermen.
And I will say this, those two vessels were operated
by whom I believe are the best Man Hayden captains
(10:21):
in the Gulf. I mean, these aren't green fishermen. These
are really impressive fishermen. So I called him and said,
what give me the scoop?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What happened?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Because we track where every boat is every second of
every day. We have it on GPS. You know, our
vice president of fishing operations looks.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
At it like you know, a risk board. He just
he looks at his computer all day. So I called
him and he.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Said that they had seen they had been put on
those Man Hayden by a Spoder aircraft. They were unaware
of the Tarpin fishermen nearby, but they saw the boats.
They said, there were about three quarters of a mile
away from the Tarpin fishermen and they made their sets.
They made two sets, and I guess that's when the
(11:10):
chatter on the radio occurred. I don't know, you know,
I'm not gonna I don't know what happened on the radio.
But they made their two sets, and then they saw
they had a number of sharks and I think maybe
one or two tarpin is what the captains told me
they observed. And then they saw the recreational boats come
(11:31):
to them. You know, so they're three quarters of a mile
away and the REG boats are coming to them with
their cameras out and filming, and I guess that's where
they got their footage. They each boat made two sets
and then they took off, so it's probably there maybe
there an hour. They said they could see that the
reg boats had stayed in that area for a while.
I guess trying to I don't know what they were doing,
(11:56):
but he said that he thought they were trying to
see if any tarpin floated. And he said that he
saw the shark and the tarpain when he basically rolled
out his net like after the set was over, and
he you know, unlatched it and brought it back in.
He said that he saw the tarpain and and the
sharks swim away. So he did not report any any
(12:18):
dead tarpaun or shark. But you know, I think that's
just you know, what gets caught in there. But I
do think, you know, I would suggest to to both sides,
you know, we can throttle down this this rhetoric and
this this animosity, and my guys can probably do a
(12:39):
little better in some instances. And you know, I know
the recreational guys. You know, I've heard reports and I've
seen video of them come and look for trouble near us.
And you know, I think sometimes this this rhetoric just
gets too high.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, man, man and it and I realized that not
from and not speaking of I will say if it
did come across in the episode, like all three of
the guys that I talked to remained a respectable tone
the entire time when talking about the industry. They acknowledge
there's conflict there. Where I did see some some vitriol
was on social media, you know, I saw some definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Like who this is a hot topic, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
But the thing is, man, it's like and and again
I tried my best to address that in the original episode,
like this is a complex issue. I understand that you know,
there's there's guys on the recreational side, there's also charter guides.
They're thinking about the resource or thinking about their jobs.
What you're doing on the commercial side. Uh, there's jobs involved,
there's livelihoods there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I understand that.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Where I'm trying to find is, like I guess the
thing that I was talking about with the other guys, like,
is there a way in your opinion, is there a
way where you can where you can find a way
to operate that minimizes conflict? So you know whether the
whether that Tarpin died or not, you know, whether is
(14:00):
there a way that we can minimize those sort of
events where the recreational guys, the charter fishing guides can
be happy. There's we can look forward to, like, hey,
what we're doing here for the resource is sustainable. Is
there a way where we can find that ground for
everybody to work.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I mean, we hope to. We hope to.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So you know, as you noted, the Manhaden fishery has
been you know, harvesting in the Atlantic probably going back
one hundred and forty five years. In the golf it's
probably closer to eighty or ninety years again, we never
had these conflicts until a handful of years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
My sense is that recreational fishermen weren't just biting their
tongue that whole time. You know, I don't know what changed,
and if it was a new narrative or you know,
a special interest group on their side said hey, we
should make this an issue. I don't know, but I
do know that we try to adhere to the best
(15:09):
available science when we conduct our fishing operations, and that
starts with most recent stock assessment. You know, what is
being harvested is that at a sustainable level, or key
predators being receiving enough menhaden and their diet so that
(15:29):
their populations are not are not dipping. And I think
those are the you know, the questions we need to ask. Secondly,
by catch a huge issue, right, I mean that that's
that the user conflict in bycatch is what I hear
the most of. And you know, as you talked about
in your in your episode, you know, a really landmark
(15:52):
bycatch report was released, you know, a few months ago,
and you know it you could get anything you wanted
out of that, right, you know, recreational anglers saw something
and they found, you know, oh, bycatch is problematic. I
think the commercial side said, well, listen, we were told
that red drum bycatch was through the roof, and this
(16:14):
survey indicated that perhaps it's not. You know, so I
think to me, it's do or the regulators being kept
up at night because of too many fish being removed
or bycatch, and you know, I guess we have not
seen that, you know, that reaction from the fisheries managers
and the golf that. You know, I believe them to
(16:37):
be unbiased and independent, and if they don't believe that
there's a there's a concern or a need for extra regulation,
then let's go fish. Then it goes back on the
sectors to make sure that you know, user conflicts or
minimized as best we can.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
That would be the way that I would answer that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
So when you saw I think the number I without
looking at the whole you know, through the numbers that
entire report, I think it was like twenty two thousand
breeds as redfish. So you as an industry, like y'all thought,
I mean, obviously y'all just think that that's not a
very concerning number as far as the population as a
whole in population effects. That's not a concerning number.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Now, well I think we it was.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
It was a number, and it was a goal to
shoot for, to try to reduce. So, you know, one
thing we learned, I mean, this bycatch report is the
big part of it is obviously understanding what's in the bycatch,
but we looked at it as an industry of what
can be approved, and we learned that rollover bycatch, you know,
(17:54):
bycatch it stays in the net the whole time throughout
the set had a success rate, you know, eighty six percent,
eighty five, eighty six percent if it stays in the
net throughout the pumping. If it goes into the pump
and onto the vessel, survivability was incredibly low. So what
(18:19):
can we do as an industry to make sure that
those fish don't go in the in the fish hose.
So before the season started, we configured a different hose
cage so that there were more bars to ensure that
(18:41):
larger fish bump off of those bars and don't get
sucked up the hose. We then throughout the year we
just kind of kept tinkering with it. You know what
if we ed at a bar here and I don't
think that the final story on that is told. But
our goal is to have a host cage that when
(19:04):
it's in operation that twenty two thousand number reduces so
that they stay in the fishole and then when you
let go of the net and the set is over,
these guys the bycatchup scientists stayed and they said, are
we seeing these fish swim away? And they did at
a at a rate of about eighty six percent survival rate.
(19:26):
So that was kind of the impetus of the industry
trying to improve our operations to lower that twenty two
and again we're just talking about red drum but for
all fish, lowering that number and keeping them in the
water because we did find out that and you know,
hand up, we didn't. We thought that they had a
(19:46):
higher survivability if it went on the vessel and went
off to the other side, but it doesn't. So you know,
we've got to do our best to keep them in
that water as long as possible.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So y'all are y'all are like seeking out ways to
reduce that by catch and reduce mortality.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
So again, there was not a standardized hose cage even
within the plants, like I work in the Abbeyville facility.
The vessels had different cages between themselves, and then obviously
we had a different one than the west Bank vessels
out of Empire and Moss Point. So we worked with
(20:27):
them pretty closely over at west Bank and we said,
let's design a cage that is standardized throughout the fishery.
And I think we're still just tinkering with it to
see what works and what doesn't. Now, the season wrapped
up this week, but we were able to run with
some different designs over the course of this season to
try and reduce that gotcha.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Going back to buffer zone, like, I know there's a
lot of talk. I think there's something coming up on
this next Friday that implications for buffer zones everything I know.
Like again, going back to the guys that I interviewed
on the recreational side, A lot of their a lot
of the factor that they were hinging on on finding
(21:12):
common common ground was that buffer zone. Right are y'all
are you in favor of maintaining a half mile buffer zone?
Do you think there shouldn't be any buffer zone except
for in a few areas like Grand Isle?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
What are your views on buffer zones?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So we support a proposal that would keep the half
mile buffer in place, and then with the exception of
a handful of areas that were identified that are less
recreational fishing hotspots. So you know, I've seen online a
great deal and listen where the where the villain being
(21:51):
attacked most of the time. But you know, it was
never going. We've never suggested on a coast wide basis
moving in from from a half mile to a quarter.
We what we did is identified areas that when we're
out fishing, do you see recreational anglers in this area?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Do you see camps? You know, if it's if it's marsh.
Could you move that buffer from a half to a
quarter in those areas, but maintain the bigger areas that
recreational anglers love. That would not change at all under
what we suggested. Now what wildlife from fisheries is ultimately
(22:35):
going to do. But listen, it would have been easy
to say all three hundred linear miles of Louisiana coastline
move into a quarter, but we didn't do that. We
took a concerted approach to say, you know, let's pick
our spots here. You know, and I think what the
(22:56):
map that we had kind of worked up was roughly
maybe a order of those miles would go from a
half to a quarter and everything else would stay the
same as is.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
M Yeah, so I guess the question there is and
the reason it came to mind is that going back
to that by catch study is I think, I mean,
it is important to notate that that study was taking
place when those are those buffer places, that are those
buffer zones that are now so one one could reasonably
be presumed like, hey, if we reduce these buffer zones
(23:29):
in any stretch like that could that couldn't mean that
bycatch is going to go up.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I don't think it would go up in any order
of magnitude from what we've understood. And you know, as
we understand that bycatch reportant, again, these guys run our
vessels for a year, right, you would almost have to
go out miles to see any material bycatch reduction, you know,
So it's you know, I think we're talking at a
(23:58):
half mile of a quarter mile. My understanding of what
the bycatch report said is that you would not see
a dramatic difference in that quarter of a mile.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And so and you're like, if they wanted to do
like a three mile wide buffer zone like they were
talking about in the first episode. That's not feasible, is
that what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
No, it really isn't. And and man haden. So what
what man Aiden do is they come out in the
early morning and then during the bulk of the day
they go inside the marsh. Because if you're a man Hayden,
you're always in a school, right, you're always schooled up.
A single Manhayden's going to be gobbled up by a predator.
(24:39):
And then you know, late in the afternoon they come
out again.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
And you know, do we.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Catch fish outside of three miles of course, but the
bulk of those fish or I would say, you know
near shore, and you know that's where they are. So
you know, we just feel that we have the same right.
It's a livelihood to us. And listen to those guys,
(25:12):
they seem to acknowledge it.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
I'll give you the I'll give them.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Credit in that regard that you know, nobody said but
shut them down. But I think if you were three
miles an out, even one mile and out, I think
you would see a dramatic reduction in fish catch. And again,
this is how these guys get paid. They get paid
on fish catch. And I've just and I hope this
(25:35):
is not, you know, offensive to your audience, but I've
always suggested that a man's livelihood should, you know, at
least be treated equally, if not more preferred, than another
man's hobby. Now, I understand charter fishing is different, and
you know, we're.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Happy to work with those guys.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
But if these guys don't catch fish between Monday and Friday,
they don't get paid. And you know that's incredibly important
to me.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Mm hmm, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And it's like the questions I have coming from the
other side are it's like, well, or the arguments that
I hear going the other way, it's like, well, at
the rate of the way they're catching fish, the amount
of men haden they're bringing in, the bycatch, the habitat
loss or habitat degradation, Like there's concerns around the longevity
(26:27):
is that, you know what I mean, like the longevity
of like how long can is Do you believe the
way that y'all are harvesting min haden, now, do you
believe that that is sustainable for not just for min hayden,
but for the industry for the entire fishery for the
Gulf in that area.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Well, I do, and I think the proof is in
the you know, the fact that we're a very old fishery.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That we've been doing this.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
And listen, I wasn't around in the sixties and seventies,
but when there were no buffer zone and they were,
you know, double the amount of pokey boat captains out there,
I'm certain that they got right up on that beach.
You know, now that there is a greater scrutiny on you,
I think you're seeing.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
That this degree of harvest is not unusual. It's been.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
It's been occurring in the Gulf. In Louisiana. There are
three golf plants now and just in the nineteen nineties
there were six or seven. And you know, they've always
been around and Pogy is still around. And you got
to remember Louisiana calls itself Louisiana Sportsman's Paradise, and that
(27:43):
Moniker came when they were double the Pogy plants or
triple the Pogy plants and double the vessels. So I
think the attention being shown to the fishery now, you know,
we should always be harvesting stainably and responsibly on the water.
But I think if you say, if you saw a
(28:05):
collapse in the fishery at any time, you would have
probably seen it when there were more vessels in greater effort,
you know, out on the water.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
If you kind of kind of final question here for you, Ben,
you can tell me if my assumption is wrong. But
I would reasonably assume that, like the kind of the
amount of conflict that's happening between commercial and recreational is
not ideal for anybody, right, Like, nobody's like, man, we
(28:37):
love this more conflict. No one's doing that, right. So
when I talked to the guys on the recreational side
and the charter guys, like they drew up their idea
of like how we could solve this.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Issue where you know, we know the resources.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Okay, we can do our jobs and the commercial guys
can do their jobs. On your end, what is your
eye deal scenario for sustainable take operating a commercial fishery
and minimize conflict with recreational guys?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
What would you draw up if you had a magical No?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Well, thanks, I mean I would I would love to
see this die down. I mean, I think the rhetoric's
gotten out of control. I think if everyone acknowledged and
respected the other party too often, where you know, I
see and again I'm incredibly sensitive to this. The fishermen
that that I represent or vilified and we need to
(29:35):
take you know, take the pressure out of that kettle.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Now is there more? Is there more.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Steps that could occur? Like we're we're trying to reduce
the bycatch by adding you know, different hose configurations. We've
the companies combined to spend over three million dollars on
getting stronger, different nets to reduce the number of fish
(30:03):
spills and net tears. And you've seen that reduced dramatically,
you know, probably I think a few years ago there
were you know, fifteen to twenty maybe now this year,
I think there were two in those instances where you know,
the vessel just the net got under the vessel. So,
(30:25):
you know, I think we're doing what we can to
be as responsible as possible on the water, and we
abide by all the regulations that are put on us.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
So I think that's where we are.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I mean, all we can do is control what we do,
play within the rules, and we always have an open door.
I've met with the recreational anglers these groups, you know,
CCA members listen to a number of those guys I
consider friends. We always have an open door. Those discussions
have not led to any any great place, but we're
(31:00):
always willing to do it. You know, sometimes I think
perhaps some of these groups don't, you know, they kind
of like the the fervor and the campaign. But we
always have an open door and we'll meet with anybody
to try and figure this out because it is better
for everyone when there's not as much tension out there
(31:23):
in the water, because ultimately it's about safety and we
don't want anything to escalate to a bad place.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Well, man, like I said, I can tell you what
I'm for and like when I when I do this show,
especially when I do.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
A formal episode.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I've said it all the time on several episodes, like
my job is not to tell anyone how to think.
My job is to try my best to present both
sides and let people make up their own mind what
they want to do. Like, one thing that I am
unequivocally advocate and advocate for is sustainable habitats are not
you know, the safety and the longevity of our natural resources.
So with all that being said, man, unless you have
(31:58):
anything else to add, I am I'm appreciative of your time,
and I thank you for being willing to come on
and share you know, this side of it.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Sure happy to listen. You you're a Missippi.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Guy, right, yep, yep, born and raised.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Listen, you have a you have an open door at
our Moss Point facility if you ever want to come
over there obviously in Abbyville, Louisiana, if you ever want
to come. You know, we believe as a company we
have a great story to tell. We just try to
seek audiences to tell it too. So if you ever,
you know, down on the coast and and have a
few hours, just give us a call. We'd love to
(32:34):
toy you around.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Sure, thank you, Ben all right, man, have it going,
and that's going to wrap us up with this bonus episode.
If you have it yet, be sure to also go
back and listen to the Pokey Boat episodes so you
can be equipped with both perspectives. And if you care
to do any further research, you can find more of
those published studies at the.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
T RCP website.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I want to thank all of you for listening to
Backwards University as well as bear grease in this country life.
It means a whole lot to all of us here,
and
Speaker 2 (33:02):
We'll see all next work
Welcome to the first ever bonus drop of Backwoods University.
As many of you know, Backwoods University is traditionally a
bi weekly show. However, last week we put out an
episode titled Hogy Boats, and in that show, we dove
into the growing concern and controversy surrounding the commercial min
haden fishing industry. And one of the things that I
(00:24):
specifically notated in that show was that I wanted to
be able to present both sides, but unfortunately I cannot
find anyone from the commercial fishing side to speak with me. However,
that has since changed. I have someone from the industry
to talk to. And also, this is a very time
sensitive issue. There are a few potential law and regulation
(00:45):
changes in boats taking place this very Friday in Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So, as I.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Promised, my aim is not to tell you how to think,
but to simply present the facts in both sides of
the story. So here's my conversation with the commercial fishing representatives. So, so,
Ben Landry, you are the vice president of Public Affairs
and you oversee regulatory communications for ocean harvesters.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is that that correct?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, it's correct. So we have.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Two facilities in the Gulf. We've won in Moss Pointe, Mississippi.
We have won in Abbeyville, Louisiana. We also harvest been
Hayden on the East coast in Reidville, Virginia.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so what I'm gonna do? I have I have
some questions that I want to ask you. But but
at the point that this episode will come out, the
original Pokey Boat episode will have been out for about
a week, maybe a little bit more. And so one
thing I wanted to be sure to do was just
kind of give you an open floor if you you've
(01:47):
had a chance to you know, see some of the
stuff that came out, see some you know, hear the episode,
hear what was talked about. So before I have you,
before I have any of the questions that I have
for you, I want to just give you an opportunity
or to respond to any of the off that was
covered in the episode as is.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Okay, So you know, thank you, And you know, having
watched the video, the podcast, and you know, live this
life for twenty years, you know there's a lot of
misconceptions about the fishery, and you know, the guys that
you had in the video are incredibly passionate. I would
(02:26):
never suggest that they don't know what they're talking about.
I mean, they seem to be experts in their field.
But I do think there's other perspectives, you know, the
concept of well. First off, the one thing that just
always gets me is this foreign ownership being a factor
in any of this, and it's simply not the case.
Both fishing companies, both ocean harvesterers, and our competitor who
(02:52):
we've kind of been working shoulder to shoulder with on
these regulatory issues, West Bank Fisheries, the both American ome
American owned, American operated. The processing where we deliver Manhaden two.
That company Omega Protein, and their's is Daybrook Fisheries. Those
(03:13):
are owned by a Canadian company in a South African company.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
But in terms of the fishing, the vessels that people see,
those are American owned.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And you know, I heard one of your guests just
you know, it always just strikes me as kind of
a scare tactic, this idea that foreign entities are coming
and taking us men Hayden, And one, it's not true.
In two, it hasn't changed in any way the fishing operation.
I worked for the company prior to the acquisition, at
(03:47):
least the Cook acquisition in twenty seventeen. And I can
show you our fisheries prosecuted the exact same. I can't
speak for the other company, but you know we harvest
the same fashion. We we don't. There hasn't been a
change in philosophy of becoming more aggressive or you know,
let's uh, you know, create or be damned with user conflicts.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
That's not what's going on here.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I mean, there's Americans working there flying the US flag,
and you know, when we're perceived as outsiders, uh, it's
a bit offensive to us. So that's one thing, I
you know, just off the top. I wanted to mention.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
One thing that that I that I appreciated from the
guys that I heard from, because there was three different
individuals on that episode, and all three of them weighed
in and saying like, hey, our in engineers not to
you know, because it's not not to shut anyone down
or cost anyone. They're very clear in saying that, and
I thought that was respectable of them. One of the
(04:51):
things that they were they were pushing for is that
the the or the hot the hotter of the topics
is this buffer zone, right and We saw some of
that as well in the YouTube shorts, in the social
media post. You know, maybe there's a lot of talk
in folks wanting to extend.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The buffer zone.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I know there's talk now about wanting to take the
buffer zone away. Why is that so crucial to your operation?
What is that buffer zone? How does it affect you?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, this is what this is all about.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
To me again, I worked, I started, I came over
to a Mega Protein and now you know, I'm on
the fishing side in two thousand and five, and we
didn't have any of these issues until that twenty twenty
and it was all about where you can fish and
(05:46):
to us, I mean, the simple question is that's where
the manhaden are.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
You know. Unfortunately, that's where the prize.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Sports fisher are as well, close to shore. So you
just have an inherent user conflict. I mean I grew up.
You probably passed through my hometown when you went down
to grand Isle. I grew up in Thibodeau in Lafouche Parish.
So I've been to grand Isle countless times and have
recreationally harvested fish for as long as I can. Where
(06:15):
my dad goes as often as he can user conflicts
occur within sectors, right. You know, if you're fishing and
you see two other boats come near you that are
recreational fishing, you get kind of upset too. We obviously
have a much bigger footprint there because you can see
us on the horizon a little bit faster, a little
bit easier. But I just think this has always been
(06:38):
about user conflicts of moving us moving those boats away
from the coast, and you know, there hasn't been any
data that illustrates that that's better than something else, and
particularly if that's where the bulk of the menhad a
going to be, then we believe we should have the
right to harvest in those waters. You know, we saw
(07:03):
the buffer zone get moved back a little bit and
then you know, obviously Grandu has the much bigger buffer
because there was some acknowledgment that that's kind of a
recreational fishing hotspot. There was no disagreement from the fishery.
There was a gentleman's agreement to stay three miles off
of the island itself dating back probably two decades. So
(07:24):
getting that into the code a few years ago, you know,
it was something that we didn't fight or anything we
honestly kind of hope that it would happen, you know.
And then another buffer was put in front of Holly
Beach and Cameron Parish in southwest Louisiana to protect those
tourism dollars because we understand that, but you know, we
(07:45):
believe that you know, outside of those areas and other
recreational fishing hotspots, you know, this company should have every
right to harvest those fish as anyone else. And you know,
we would always ask for respect full fishing out there.
And I talked to my captains a lot, and I say, listen,
you can legally go catch that fish, but you know,
(08:09):
if there's a bunch of boats around, maybe consider passing
on that set and go and find them elsewhere. We
don't go out looking for for user conflicts. And yeah,
I think that's something that you know, just from communication,
we could all improve.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
On, right.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And so that's what that leads me to something that
like I have to ask about probably one of the
more notable ones. I think it's about like a you know,
a couple months back, it was recent and it was
before I mean as well, before I had even started
working on this episode. There was a video some guys
were tarp and fishing I think a couple of tarpating
(08:44):
up on the net. Obviously I wasn't there, but like
the record from from several of the folks that were
there was that the story went that there was communication
between them and the commercial boats and there was there
was unication going, hey, we're fishing tarpin right here, you know,
please stay out something along those lines, and then they
(09:06):
came in any way.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And tarpin were killed. That's how that's how it came across. Yeah,
I heard, I heard the story right right.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
How I mean, you look at instances like that, uh,
and it's like there's got to be a way one like,
was that was it right for those guys to carry
out their commercial fishing in that way? Is that a
kind of instance that can be avoided? Because that's that's
where like those instances as far as like if I'm
(09:38):
if I'm taking off the unbiased hat and I'm trying
to say, you know, if I'm on the side of
commercial fishing, I'm like, hey, guys, we want to avoid
that one. That would be my standpoint. But explain to
me from your perspective, like how something like that happens
do you try to avoid something like that?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Is that a worry? Just just kind of break that
down for me.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Well, no, that's great, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.
The vessels that there were, as I remember, there were
two Menhaden vessels that came nearby some Tarpaid fishers fishermen.
And I will say this, those two vessels were operated
by whom I believe are the best Man Hayden captains
(10:21):
in the Gulf. I mean, these aren't green fishermen. These
are really impressive fishermen. So I called him and said,
what give me the scoop?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What happened?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Because we track where every boat is every second of
every day. We have it on GPS. You know, our
vice president of fishing operations looks.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
At it like you know, a risk board. He just
he looks at his computer all day. So I called
him and he.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Said that they had seen they had been put on
those Man Hayden by a Spoder aircraft. They were unaware
of the Tarpin fishermen nearby, but they saw the boats.
They said, there were about three quarters of a mile
away from the Tarpin fishermen and they made their sets.
They made two sets, and I guess that's when the
(11:10):
chatter on the radio occurred. I don't know, you know,
I'm not gonna I don't know what happened on the radio.
But they made their two sets, and then they saw
they had a number of sharks and I think maybe
one or two tarpin is what the captains told me
they observed. And then they saw the recreational boats come
(11:31):
to them. You know, so they're three quarters of a mile
away and the REG boats are coming to them with
their cameras out and filming, and I guess that's where
they got their footage. They each boat made two sets
and then they took off, so it's probably there maybe
there an hour. They said they could see that the
reg boats had stayed in that area for a while.
I guess trying to I don't know what they were doing,
(11:56):
but he said that he thought they were trying to
see if any tarpin floated. And he said that he
saw the shark and the tarpain when he basically rolled
out his net like after the set was over, and
he you know, unlatched it and brought it back in.
He said that he saw the tarpain and and the
sharks swim away. So he did not report any any
(12:18):
dead tarpaun or shark. But you know, I think that's
just you know, what gets caught in there. But I
do think, you know, I would suggest to to both sides,
you know, we can throttle down this this rhetoric and
this this animosity, and my guys can probably do a
(12:39):
little better in some instances. And you know, I know
the recreational guys. You know, I've heard reports and I've
seen video of them come and look for trouble near us.
And you know, I think sometimes this this rhetoric just
gets too high.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, man, man and it and I realized that not
from and not speaking of I will say if it
did come across in the episode, like all three of
the guys that I talked to remained a respectable tone
the entire time when talking about the industry. They acknowledge
there's conflict there. Where I did see some some vitriol
was on social media, you know, I saw some definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Like who this is a hot topic, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
But the thing is, man, it's like and and again
I tried my best to address that in the original episode,
like this is a complex issue. I understand that you know,
there's there's guys on the recreational side, there's also charter guides.
They're thinking about the resource or thinking about their jobs.
What you're doing on the commercial side. Uh, there's jobs involved,
there's livelihoods there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I understand that.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Where I'm trying to find is, like I guess the
thing that I was talking about with the other guys, like,
is there a way in your opinion, is there a
way where you can where you can find a way
to operate that minimizes conflict? So you know whether the
whether that Tarpin died or not, you know, whether is
(14:00):
there a way that we can minimize those sort of
events where the recreational guys, the charter fishing guides can
be happy. There's we can look forward to, like, hey,
what we're doing here for the resource is sustainable. Is
there a way where we can find that ground for
everybody to work.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I mean, we hope to. We hope to.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So you know, as you noted, the Manhaden fishery has
been you know, harvesting in the Atlantic probably going back
one hundred and forty five years. In the golf it's
probably closer to eighty or ninety years again, we never
had these conflicts until a handful of years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
My sense is that recreational fishermen weren't just biting their
tongue that whole time. You know, I don't know what changed,
and if it was a new narrative or you know,
a special interest group on their side said hey, we
should make this an issue. I don't know, but I
do know that we try to adhere to the best
(15:09):
available science when we conduct our fishing operations, and that
starts with most recent stock assessment. You know, what is
being harvested is that at a sustainable level, or key
predators being receiving enough menhaden and their diet so that
(15:29):
their populations are not are not dipping. And I think
those are the you know, the questions we need to ask. Secondly,
by catch a huge issue, right, I mean that that's
that the user conflict in bycatch is what I hear
the most of. And you know, as you talked about
in your in your episode, you know, a really landmark
(15:52):
bycatch report was released, you know, a few months ago,
and you know it you could get anything you wanted
out of that, right, you know, recreational anglers saw something
and they found, you know, oh, bycatch is problematic. I
think the commercial side said, well, listen, we were told
that red drum bycatch was through the roof, and this
(16:14):
survey indicated that perhaps it's not. You know, so I
think to me, it's do or the regulators being kept
up at night because of too many fish being removed
or bycatch, and you know, I guess we have not
seen that, you know, that reaction from the fisheries managers
and the golf that. You know, I believe them to
(16:37):
be unbiased and independent, and if they don't believe that
there's a there's a concern or a need for extra regulation,
then let's go fish. Then it goes back on the
sectors to make sure that you know, user conflicts or
minimized as best we can.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
That would be the way that I would answer that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
So when you saw I think the number I without
looking at the whole you know, through the numbers that
entire report, I think it was like twenty two thousand
breeds as redfish. So you as an industry, like y'all thought,
I mean, obviously y'all just think that that's not a
very concerning number as far as the population as a
whole in population effects. That's not a concerning number.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Now, well I think we it was.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
It was a number, and it was a goal to
shoot for, to try to reduce. So, you know, one
thing we learned, I mean, this bycatch report is the
big part of it is obviously understanding what's in the bycatch,
but we looked at it as an industry of what
can be approved, and we learned that rollover bycatch, you know,
(17:54):
bycatch it stays in the net the whole time throughout
the set had a success rate, you know, eighty six percent,
eighty five, eighty six percent if it stays in the
net throughout the pumping. If it goes into the pump
and onto the vessel, survivability was incredibly low. So what
(18:19):
can we do as an industry to make sure that
those fish don't go in the in the fish hose.
So before the season started, we configured a different hose
cage so that there were more bars to ensure that
(18:41):
larger fish bump off of those bars and don't get
sucked up the hose. We then throughout the year we
just kind of kept tinkering with it. You know what
if we ed at a bar here and I don't
think that the final story on that is told. But
our goal is to have a host cage that when
(19:04):
it's in operation that twenty two thousand number reduces so
that they stay in the fishole and then when you
let go of the net and the set is over,
these guys the bycatchup scientists stayed and they said, are
we seeing these fish swim away? And they did at
a at a rate of about eighty six percent survival rate.
(19:26):
So that was kind of the impetus of the industry
trying to improve our operations to lower that twenty two
and again we're just talking about red drum but for
all fish, lowering that number and keeping them in the
water because we did find out that and you know,
hand up, we didn't. We thought that they had a
(19:46):
higher survivability if it went on the vessel and went
off to the other side, but it doesn't. So you know,
we've got to do our best to keep them in
that water as long as possible.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So y'all are y'all are like seeking out ways to
reduce that by catch and reduce mortality.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
So again, there was not a standardized hose cage even
within the plants, like I work in the Abbeyville facility.
The vessels had different cages between themselves, and then obviously
we had a different one than the west Bank vessels
out of Empire and Moss Point. So we worked with
(20:27):
them pretty closely over at west Bank and we said,
let's design a cage that is standardized throughout the fishery.
And I think we're still just tinkering with it to
see what works and what doesn't. Now, the season wrapped
up this week, but we were able to run with
some different designs over the course of this season to
try and reduce that gotcha.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Going back to buffer zone, like, I know there's a
lot of talk. I think there's something coming up on
this next Friday that implications for buffer zones everything I know.
Like again, going back to the guys that I interviewed
on the recreational side, A lot of their a lot
of the factor that they were hinging on on finding
(21:12):
common common ground was that buffer zone. Right are y'all
are you in favor of maintaining a half mile buffer zone?
Do you think there shouldn't be any buffer zone except
for in a few areas like Grand Isle?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
What are your views on buffer zones?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So we support a proposal that would keep the half
mile buffer in place, and then with the exception of
a handful of areas that were identified that are less
recreational fishing hotspots. So you know, I've seen online a
great deal and listen where the where the villain being
(21:51):
attacked most of the time. But you know, it was
never going. We've never suggested on a coast wide basis
moving in from from a half mile to a quarter.
We what we did is identified areas that when we're
out fishing, do you see recreational anglers in this area?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Do you see camps? You know, if it's if it's marsh.
Could you move that buffer from a half to a
quarter in those areas, but maintain the bigger areas that
recreational anglers love. That would not change at all under
what we suggested. Now what wildlife from fisheries is ultimately
(22:35):
going to do. But listen, it would have been easy
to say all three hundred linear miles of Louisiana coastline
move into a quarter, but we didn't do that. We
took a concerted approach to say, you know, let's pick
our spots here. You know, and I think what the
(22:56):
map that we had kind of worked up was roughly
maybe a order of those miles would go from a
half to a quarter and everything else would stay the
same as is.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
M Yeah, so I guess the question there is and
the reason it came to mind is that going back
to that by catch study is I think, I mean,
it is important to notate that that study was taking
place when those are those buffer places, that are those
buffer zones that are now so one one could reasonably
be presumed like, hey, if we reduce these buffer zones
(23:29):
in any stretch like that could that couldn't mean that
bycatch is going to go up.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I don't think it would go up in any order
of magnitude from what we've understood. And you know, as
we understand that bycatch reportant, again, these guys run our
vessels for a year, right, you would almost have to
go out miles to see any material bycatch reduction, you know,
So it's you know, I think we're talking at a
(23:58):
half mile of a quarter mile. My understanding of what
the bycatch report said is that you would not see
a dramatic difference in that quarter of a mile.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And so and you're like, if they wanted to do
like a three mile wide buffer zone like they were
talking about in the first episode. That's not feasible, is
that what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
No, it really isn't. And and man haden. So what
what man Aiden do is they come out in the
early morning and then during the bulk of the day
they go inside the marsh. Because if you're a man Hayden,
you're always in a school, right, you're always schooled up.
A single Manhayden's going to be gobbled up by a predator.
(24:39):
And then you know, late in the afternoon they come
out again.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
And you know, do we.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Catch fish outside of three miles of course, but the
bulk of those fish or I would say, you know
near shore, and you know that's where they are. So
you know, we just feel that we have the same right.
It's a livelihood to us. And listen to those guys,
(25:12):
they seem to acknowledge it.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
I'll give you the I'll give them.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Credit in that regard that you know, nobody said but
shut them down. But I think if you were three
miles an out, even one mile and out, I think
you would see a dramatic reduction in fish catch. And again,
this is how these guys get paid. They get paid
on fish catch. And I've just and I hope this
(25:35):
is not, you know, offensive to your audience, but I've
always suggested that a man's livelihood should, you know, at
least be treated equally, if not more preferred, than another
man's hobby. Now, I understand charter fishing is different, and
you know, we're.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Happy to work with those guys.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
But if these guys don't catch fish between Monday and Friday,
they don't get paid. And you know that's incredibly important
to me.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Mm hmm, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And it's like the questions I have coming from the
other side are it's like, well, or the arguments that
I hear going the other way, it's like, well, at
the rate of the way they're catching fish, the amount
of men haden they're bringing in, the bycatch, the habitat
loss or habitat degradation, Like there's concerns around the longevity
(26:27):
is that, you know what I mean, like the longevity
of like how long can is Do you believe the
way that y'all are harvesting min haden, now, do you
believe that that is sustainable for not just for min hayden,
but for the industry for the entire fishery for the
Gulf in that area.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Well, I do, and I think the proof is in
the you know, the fact that we're a very old fishery.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That we've been doing this.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
And listen, I wasn't around in the sixties and seventies,
but when there were no buffer zone and they were,
you know, double the amount of pokey boat captains out there,
I'm certain that they got right up on that beach.
You know, now that there is a greater scrutiny on you,
I think you're seeing.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
That this degree of harvest is not unusual. It's been.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
It's been occurring in the Gulf. In Louisiana. There are
three golf plants now and just in the nineteen nineties
there were six or seven. And you know, they've always
been around and Pogy is still around. And you got
to remember Louisiana calls itself Louisiana Sportsman's Paradise, and that
(27:43):
Moniker came when they were double the Pogy plants or
triple the Pogy plants and double the vessels. So I
think the attention being shown to the fishery now, you know,
we should always be harvesting stainably and responsibly on the water.
But I think if you say, if you saw a
(28:05):
collapse in the fishery at any time, you would have
probably seen it when there were more vessels in greater effort,
you know, out on the water.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
If you kind of kind of final question here for you, Ben,
you can tell me if my assumption is wrong. But
I would reasonably assume that, like the kind of the
amount of conflict that's happening between commercial and recreational is
not ideal for anybody, right, Like, nobody's like, man, we
(28:37):
love this more conflict. No one's doing that, right. So
when I talked to the guys on the recreational side
and the charter guys, like they drew up their idea
of like how we could solve this.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Issue where you know, we know the resources.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Okay, we can do our jobs and the commercial guys
can do their jobs. On your end, what is your
eye deal scenario for sustainable take operating a commercial fishery
and minimize conflict with recreational guys?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
What would you draw up if you had a magical No?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Well, thanks, I mean I would I would love to
see this die down. I mean, I think the rhetoric's
gotten out of control. I think if everyone acknowledged and
respected the other party too often, where you know, I
see and again I'm incredibly sensitive to this. The fishermen
that that I represent or vilified and we need to
(29:35):
take you know, take the pressure out of that kettle.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Now is there more? Is there more.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Steps that could occur? Like we're we're trying to reduce
the bycatch by adding you know, different hose configurations. We've
the companies combined to spend over three million dollars on
getting stronger, different nets to reduce the number of fish
(30:03):
spills and net tears. And you've seen that reduced dramatically,
you know, probably I think a few years ago there
were you know, fifteen to twenty maybe now this year,
I think there were two in those instances where you know,
the vessel just the net got under the vessel. So,
(30:25):
you know, I think we're doing what we can to
be as responsible as possible on the water, and we
abide by all the regulations that are put on us.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
So I think that's where we are.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I mean, all we can do is control what we do,
play within the rules, and we always have an open door.
I've met with the recreational anglers these groups, you know,
CCA members listen to a number of those guys I
consider friends. We always have an open door. Those discussions
have not led to any any great place, but we're
(31:00):
always willing to do it. You know, sometimes I think
perhaps some of these groups don't, you know, they kind
of like the the fervor and the campaign. But we
always have an open door and we'll meet with anybody
to try and figure this out because it is better
for everyone when there's not as much tension out there
(31:23):
in the water, because ultimately it's about safety and we
don't want anything to escalate to a bad place.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Well, man, like I said, I can tell you what
I'm for and like when I when I do this show,
especially when I do.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
A formal episode.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I've said it all the time on several episodes, like
my job is not to tell anyone how to think.
My job is to try my best to present both
sides and let people make up their own mind what
they want to do. Like, one thing that I am
unequivocally advocate and advocate for is sustainable habitats are not
you know, the safety and the longevity of our natural resources.
So with all that being said, man, unless you have
(31:58):
anything else to add, I am I'm appreciative of your time,
and I thank you for being willing to come on
and share you know, this side of it.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Sure happy to listen. You you're a Missippi.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Guy, right, yep, yep, born and raised.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Listen, you have a you have an open door at
our Moss Point facility if you ever want to come
over there obviously in Abbyville, Louisiana, if you ever want
to come. You know, we believe as a company we
have a great story to tell. We just try to
seek audiences to tell it too. So if you ever,
you know, down on the coast and and have a
few hours, just give us a call. We'd love to
(32:34):
toy you around.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Sure, thank you, Ben all right, man, have it going,
and that's going to wrap us up with this bonus episode.
If you have it yet, be sure to also go
back and listen to the Pokey Boat episodes so you
can be equipped with both perspectives. And if you care
to do any further research, you can find more of
those published studies at the.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
T RCP website.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I want to thank all of you for listening to
Backwards University as well as bear grease in this country life.
It means a whole lot to all of us here,
and
Speaker 2 (33:02):
We'll see all next work
Host
Clay Newcomb
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