And They Were Sisters

This week, Joho flips the script on Doctor Jon Paul, and puts them in the hot seat to talk alllll about their book, "Black, Fat, Femme: Revealing the Power of Visibly Queer Voices in Media and Learning to Love Yourself." Also, Joho has some words for furniture makers!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor Sean Paul LLC. Hey, everyone, welcome to another
episode of the blood pet Fan podcast, where all the
intersections of a dandy are celebrated. I am one of
your hosts, John also known as Doctor John Paul and Whoa, whoa, whoa.
I got my boots on the ground him at one

(00:25):
time that I am fresh out of the airport back
from Portland, and I'm mad that none of you niggas
told me how cold it was there. My god, I
got in my uber and I said, why does it
feel like Kansas out here?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Not Kansas?

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Like it was, Like I'm like, I genuinely was not expected.
Like I got out there thinking it was gonna be
l a cold, you know. La cold is like you
could throw in like a top, a jacket or something
and you'll be okay. You know, No, it was cold,
old duh. It was cold. But anyway, I leave for

(01:06):
New York tomorrow, and so yeah, I might have to
go ahead and throw on that pea coat.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, I did hear that it is yesterday herd was
a beautiful day yesterday in New York, So it might
be nice spring weather there Portland, you know, JK JK,
get yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
A national brain kill and some booze baby.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Okay, yeah, that's why I said I got my boots
on the ground because my where are my coats at?
What is it? What is the underwear?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
What do people wear.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Under their clothes when they cold? What are they called?

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Thermost?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah? Where my thumbs at him at one time? Oh
my god? But anyway, how are you queen Joe girl?

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah, the girl heard around the world famous Jordan Aka,
It's Joe aka Jr.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
And Jordan. How want say my name? Girl? I am
the girl.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
I am the other woman in this co hosting duo.
And I must tell y'all. I'll save it. I'll save
it more for my no man, Pam please, But yeah,
I just have to say furniture pieces that they come
from certain places.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
I won't name them because.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh we can't name them.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah, but you could be sponsored at some point in time,
t T. But it should not take two hours particular
night stand. It should not. It should not be this
hard like can y'll be so simple?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Me? Ball like a hard bitch? Am I doing thirty
nine doubls for this one thing? And the ship girl.
I just got trouble.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
I got problems, I got headaches, I got honestly, I'm
a I'm a a sue.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
And if it is the place I'm thinking about, all
their pieces are always really fucking small.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Oh my god, it's just it's a mess.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
But you know what, besides that, y'all, I am happy
to be here, happy to be queer. And today, my friends,
we are flipping the script a bit, so it's just
the two of us.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Today.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
I'm putting John in the hot seat because miss Thing
just dropped a book. My body is burning. It's gonna
be a splashy. But other day I'm gonna be interviewing
this off the rest storytelling.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Y'all.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Wait pause, so wait before we I'm I'm about to
break the third wall. I'm laughing because I'm watching this
this text message threat between us and our producer, and
one of our producers said, of course, no worries, and
Jo just sisters is all worried.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's all worries all the time, truly screaming.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh my god, Okay, I'm sorry, I had to break
says no worries.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
I'm always like baby, it's always yes, we are Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturdays,
every goddamn.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Day we are worried. Is nice?

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Nice, but go off. I'm sorry, like we always do.
Our girl, Miss sais Kim and I'm still here. Still
here segment. I want you to try to asking you
John to get dig into some serious business and tell
us how to write the book and make you realize
that you are still.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Here.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah. So all of this laughing and joy that y'all
are getting on this episode is pretty I'm pretty sure
it's delirious. He has a bitch of so goddamn tired.
But no, I'm really really First off, before I jump
into to answer your question, first off, thank you for
because you know how I am and you know how
I've been about this whole book thing. Right, I've been

(04:54):
really intentional about trying not to make it about me
and really making it about who and basically who I
wrote it for. Right, So, to everybody who has you know,
one who has been listening to the show, and then
two to everyone who has been really supportive of the
book and uplifting both you know me and me and

(05:16):
Jordan's journey and then also my journey with this book.
Thank you. I genuinely wanted to first say thank you
to all of our listeners. A lot of y'all have
reached out to me and said that you've gotten the book,
you've gotten the audiobooks. Some of you have said you
got both. It's it's been almost like tbh, it's been
almost a little overwhelming. How how just how everyone that

(05:37):
has responded. But it's a good overwhelming. It's a really
good feeling to know everyone sees me and supports me.
And as the show title is, you know, they are sisters.
That's what I see the book as I see the
book as the sister to the show we are telling.
More so, like I just I broke off and I
just said, I'm going to tell these specific stories about
how they've impacted me in relation to the stories that

(05:58):
we're telling on the show. So there's that. What I
will say to your question. To answer your question, I
think no one tells you know, no one tells you
when you write a book about how the process is
going to be and and really how a lot of
it is built in being a popularity contest. And I
think that's everywhere. Podcasting is a popularity contest. You know,

(06:20):
writing a book is a popularity contest. Work is a
popular anything you do is a one big popularity contest.
So at the beginning of the process, I was sort
of in my own head about this notion of why
do I need to write a book? Like, why is
it so important that doctor John Paul writes a book?
You know, you already have a podcast, You've already done
all these things. Why write a book?

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (06:41):
And for a minute, I really have this feeling that
wouldn't really go away, that even in the midst of
me writing and putting this book out, that no one
would care. Right. It's this notion of my my shine
is not big enough to write a book that people
will genuinely give the care about. And then when I
really started, you know, kind of thinking about it, uh

(07:02):
and and I'll say it was it really started the
day of the release.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
These last couple of of of of days have really
helped me understand. Wow, now I understand why I did it,
why I needed to do it, why I was encouraged
to do it, you know from messages that people have,
you know, said, oh, I've just got through Laterreesa's forward
and I'm already in tears right, or I've gotten people
who have said I finished the book, and it's it

(07:27):
blows my mind that people have finished this book, and
it's I'm not I'm not going to hold you and
say that it's a really hard book to read. This
is I intentionally did not write it from a scholarly angle.
I it's a it's a very easy read intentionally, so
people can really just you know, breeze through it because
I want them to feel like I'm just telling them
a series of stories.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
So I did that intentionally. But I think the thing
that has really reminded me the most, right this notion
of you know. I I've always seen myself as just
a highly educated Babey kid from Samford to know, right,
And I've gone through a lot, and I've had friends
reach out to me and say, wow, I had no
idea you went through that much to get to where

(08:06):
you are. But I'm so glad that you did. And
I'm so glad that you're still here to tell it
because now you're encouraging other people who have gone through
a lot of shit to let them know that they can.
And so I say all of that to say I'm
still here in the sense that I truly believe what
hasn't Like I always tell people what you can't break,

(08:27):
what you didn't make, and I genuinely believe that life
has really tried to break me in so many facets,
and I'm on con constantly in this place of like
you didn't make me, so you can't break me. And
I think that's why this book has really kind of
put me in this place of still being here and
the notion of like, you know, it may not be
the story you want to hear, but I'm still gonna

(08:49):
tell it. You know it may this book may not
be for you, and that's okay, you don't have to
read it. But the reality is that there are people
who do need it, and I'm so happy I got
to write it for them.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
I love hearing that so much, and truly the book.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
I think the book is like the epitome of still
here right then that like you know, yes, it's it
is a guide and a model for people to reveal
the power of you know, queer voices and media for themselves,
but also like a way for you to share how
how how you're still here.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
I'm gonna read a quick quote that I really appreciate
the book.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
I'm gonna bring it up.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Yeah, put me on the view, maybe put me on
the view, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
But for example, this is there's this quote and which
chapter is this?

Speaker 4 (09:36):
It is is on chapter nine, which also I'll say,
right that, so so like on each chapter that's a
little like word definition and this was visible able to
be seen, and that I think this right, This to
me is actually kind of a point, like kind of
like a big suggest as to why you wrote this book,
right could you say? When I got enough to understand
what it was I was dealing with in terms of
my own identity, I quickly learned how much media played

(09:58):
into that this. It would be up to me to
use whatever platform I had to change it. DA shapes
people's lives, It shapes people's narratives. But more than anything,
it also comes people figure out who they are and
where where they are being told who they have to
be and like like like to me, like like that's
me not too I reread that, but I was like,
I was like like that, like this is the entire

(10:19):
thesis of this book because it's all about right, like,
it's all about how we're shaped a by what we
see around us and how we have to have ownership
over that because it represents us. And so I just
really like, I love I love it so much, love,
I love this, I love you.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I love the book, you know, and I'm very excited
for us to really talk more about it today on
the show.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, all right, y'all. Now that Wiley got me out
here dancing like Joe Jackson, we are going to take
a break to pay these bills, and when we come back,
we're gonna have some more of the show. We'll be
back in a second.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
And we are by black fans.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
I was into a conversation today and this book I
want to I want to check out the conversation about
asking you's similar to the way I should them to.
Still here a section what just what did you justcover
about yourself through writing this sisters sister, this podcast? Right,
you're creating this BFF universe here, you know, one one
might say next and next the screens darling, So what
did you just give about yourself as you wrote the

(11:23):
companion to the show.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, as so, so they were sisters. That's what I
just keep thinking about because that's what I've been telling people,
you know, because some because you know, my feeling has been,
you know, I don't want people thinking that I wrote
this book to overshadow the podcast. No, this was just
like I said, this literally, So what a lot of
people I'm gonna give y'all some background. What a lot
of people don't know was that the book was actually

(11:46):
supposed to come before the podcast truly. And so when
I when I got tapped, well I should say we right,
I got tapped first. Obviously, I brought you into the fold.
The the the idea of what this show was was
literally the idea that I had for the book. It
just wasn't as fleshed out. And so now, you know,
looking back at it, right, I started writing, and I

(12:09):
tell I've said this on so many different you know,
in so many different ways. When I initially started the
book process back in twenties, I think it was twenty sixteen,
twenty seventeens when I really started playing with the idea
of writing the proposal. I genuinely was in this headspace
of like I said earlier, I don't know what I
want to write. I don't know what I have to say.
And I'm grateful for this podcast because this podcast gave

(12:31):
me a lot of It gave me three years to
flesh that out. Right, Like we started in twenty twenty one,
we're now in twenty twenty five. I wrote the book
in twenty twenty four, so it gave me that timeframe
to really understand, Oh, well, we've been talking massively about
the disillusion and the ways of the world is silencing
black queer voices. Now I can write about the folks

(12:53):
who impacted me personally, right and say that this book
is just an extension. We can't reach out to ondre Lean,
we can't reach out to you know, Luther Van Draws
and talk to them, so now I can just talk
about how they've impacted me. So that's kind of where
the book started, right. It was this notion of now
I have this place of I want to talk about
the people who've impacted me personally, and if we ever

(13:14):
do an extension where you know, Joho wants to go
out and do blackfatfem and they want to do something
on their end from blackfee, they can right. Like it
really is this notion of we we we are creating
a world. And so that was one of the things
I think I started to figure out very early in
this book writing process. But outside of that, I said,
you know, like Angela bassetid, we're doing the damn things.

(13:34):
The thing, yes, I will always that will always live
in me, right, But I feel like what I've really
got out of this right is like I I think
at the end of the book when I when I
when I finally got to a place where it was like, Okay,
it's going to publishing, I started to really understand that
a lot of what I've done throughout my whole entire

(13:56):
life has been done out of spite, Like it's been
done out of the notion of I have to prove
these niggas wrong, like I have to make sure, like
my whole family was that way because my hub and
I say this, you know, I talk about this in
my book. Nobody in my family ever expected me to
be doctor John Paul period, right. My mom did, my
brother has always you know, encouraged me, and my brother

(14:17):
would always say, you're gonna be super successful. I just
know it, right. So I had my mom and my
brother in my corner, but the rest of my family
they thought I was gonna be you know, I was
always told the only thing you're gonna ever be able
to do is own an ice cream truck right, Like,
and even at that time, right you think, oh, being
an ice cream truck driver is really sad when we
really think about it. Ice cream truck dealers are hustlers
because they got they truck, they got their ice cream.

(14:38):
They out there selling and making money on they ouse.
But really, you want to talk about it, they are a
business person. That's the home of the conversation for a
different days. So but initially, right before I wrote the book,
I never thought I'd ever get to this place. And
so now that I am in this place, I've kind
of stopped thinking that I have to like do stuff
to prove people wrong. Like I don't have to keep

(14:58):
vat wing or living and existing to be validated. Like
I've my whole life working on this idea that I
have to be bigger and better and that my lived
experience has to be somehow more immaculate than what it is.
And I'm okay now, Like I'm like John, you're you're
you're good, Like you're fine. You know, you've done a
lot of the stuff that you have done. You know,

(15:20):
the accolades either are there or they are coming right
right right. The accolades like this, and I think about
this a lot. I can I can say this is
an award winning podcast. Even if they pull the plug,
it is still an award winning podcast. How you're doing regardless, right,
And more awards are coming down the pipeline. We just
got nominated for something a couple of weeks ago, right,

(15:41):
we're currently working on so we can't say it. We
can't say it out loud yet, but we it's there right, right, right,
So we're nominated for stuff, and stuff is coming down
the pipeline. So I say all of that to say,
I think, you know, I think I'm just I'm okay.
I don't need to keep trying to prove the terrible
people in my life wrong. I don't need to prove

(16:03):
my teachers wrong. I don't need to like google me
bitch like I am you. When you type up Jonathan P. Higgins,
ship comes up. When you type doctor John Paul, ship
comes up like I don't have I don't owe anybody
any more explanations as to my success. And I think
that's the thing that this book finally kind of put
the period on.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
I love that so so much, and I love you
explaining how you know the BFF uversus being made as
well too. I'm gonna end up actually doing a BFF
stand up show, you know, I'm gonna be Ana, be
a woman comedian on the road.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's right. Tell me where to be were to do it.
I'm just staying though.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
But the thing you thank you so the book is
if she launched, we had this amazing launch event of
the plus bus.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Boutique in Los Angeles.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
You've put in all this workouse also say patious coming
soon'll you put in all this to get it ground?
Now you're in the actual tour phase.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
What's going through your mind? Now this part of the process.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Okay, this is the part where I was telling myself, bitch,
you ain't gonna be crying or nobody's mic this week,
I honestly, So I'll say this, I think Tuesday and
even since then, right, how loved I really am. And
I think the emotions that are coming from that is
from feelings that I've had prior to the book releasing.

(17:30):
So I'll say this, like, I often sit back and
think about how much I do for others and how
often I don't feel like it's returned. And that's no
shade to nobody. I'm just saying, I'm naturally a person
who just I will go if if you know me,
I will go to the ends of the earth for
you if you're if you're good in my book, right,
no cost, no time, no day, I will do whatever

(17:50):
I can to make sure that my people are good
all the time. I think on that night, I saw
so many people come out and really like not only
just love one me, but love on us, right. Like,
there's like a lot of the people who were there
are fans of our podcast, right, people who have been
on the show, people who have supported the show in
certain ways, people who have done stuff for us at

(18:12):
no cost for the show. Like, there are a lot
of There was just so many different people there, you know,
and it just showed me how love that was, you know.
I think about my friend Tennessee, who came to the
event after a long day at work. They could have
went home, right, Tennessee could have said, you know, great job, John,
have a nice day, I'm out of here, I'm going home.
But no, they came to the launch and then went
home after and I could see it in their face

(18:33):
that they were so tired. But it was just it
was so much love for me. I think about XD,
you know, friends of the show who came after all
he's dealing with in his life. He's been very transparent
about what's going on in his life on his show.
And the fact that he took time out of his
schedule to come to the show. Oh, I'm really trying
my hardest not to cry. Wow, even are at or

(19:00):
Chris what he's been dealing with in his life. The
fact that he made time to come it meant, like
the fact that you drove from San Diego to be
there for me. It just it. Oh my god. And
I have not had a chance to process this, And

(19:22):
I told myself I was not gonna do this on
the air. It was just y'all being in the room
with me on that day, and after months of me
feeling like I was so alone in a lot of
the stuff I was dealing with, And I looked around
that room and I saw all those people who came out,
who have supported me, who have uplifted me, who have

(19:43):
continued to support me in moments when I feel like
I didn't even have it to support myself. Oh my god,
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Don't be sorry. You're fucking loved that.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
It was just so y'all know it was standing room
only in that bitch whoa, it was a sitting room only.
But John, like you know, say, I just want to say,
as you know, as a friends, as family, I know
you and I talk about the idea of how hard
is to have community, but like the community for you
to shout out that.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
They did and they still do and there they still are.
And even the fact that, you know, when I had
very vocally it said online I didn't feel supported in
my book tour, how people like literally rallied around me
to make sure that I had the tour that I wanted.
And I have friends asking me day in and day out,
what do you need? Do you need help? Do you

(20:36):
need this? Do you need that? And it's just there's
just it's just I really, you know, I think about it,
and I think the other hard part of it is,
you know, what was really hard about that day was
a lot of and I've mentioned this on the show before,
my friend Carla passed away in twenty twenty two and
I've still been processing that and I'm still having a
very hard time with the fact that she's not here

(20:56):
and so having her like being able to honor her
and knowing that I know that she was, that she
was and she is and she's still so happy and
so proudably my friend Matt, who also passed away from COVID.
I just I feel like every day I get to
honor them in some type of way. And it just

(21:17):
you know, my best friend Loretta, who you know, passed
away years ago, and I still call her my best
friend because she will always be that to me, and
knowing I dedicated the book to them, and knowing that
that day they were there, like I could feel them
in the room with me, and that they were so
proud of me, and so it just it just I I,
like I said, I had, I've been dealing with a

(21:39):
lot around community and feeling isolated and feeling like nobody
sees me or understands me, or really you know, fucks
with my work the way that I wish it would
be fucked with, and that day really really really really
affirmed me on so many different levels. So and like
I said, I really, I genuinely did not want to

(22:01):
come on this episode and be crying all over the mic,
but that's just how I feel. I feel so loved
in this moment in a way that I don't think,
and it's I think it's what's even more, Oh shit, Okay,
I'm gonna say this one thing and then we're gonna
have to move on. I keep thinking about how alone

(22:23):
people feel now with all that we're going through, and
it's just I'm just how do I say this? I
wish that people knew how seen and supported they are,
and that they and knowing that the stuff that I

(22:46):
do is like and I keep saying this is not
for me, it has nothing to do with me. It
has everything to do with the notion that I want
another queer person to see themselves and know how valued
and how necessary they are, and how they're being and
how they're how who they are when they come into

(23:07):
a room, how it makes me somebody like me feel like,
thank God, you're still here. And so I think that's
why I'm so emotional right now with this is like
I appreciate people seeing me and reminding me that I'm
still here. And I'm hoping that everything I'm doing can
inspire whether you're black, whether you're not, whatever the case

(23:31):
may be. I'm really hoping that even this podcast is
episode where I'm crying. It's not it's snotting all over
to mic. I'm hoping that it reminds someone that there
is somebody who needs you here. There's it may not
be everybody, but we need you here and we need
you in community, and we need you to stay strong

(23:53):
so we can get through these next four years because
it is going to be hard, and it's getting harder
by the day and we are only in like month three,
and I'm just I really hope someone hears this, and
I hope someone reads the book, and I hope that
they get that message at the end of it. Oh
my god. But yeah, So that was your answer to that.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Thank you so much for sharing the m beings and
with us. Shout out to me for being a good
interviewer and asking that question. That's why everything on One
Bitch is okay.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm like, that's that journalism, my god.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Literally, like truly like it was like there's a moment
where a moment like when like when like it was Heather, Chris,
Francesca James and myself and I was like, oh my god,
John really has people of all iterations of their life

(24:53):
here right now or you know, of this past decade
here with here in this room with them to witness them,
and that was really special to be like, Wow, John's
built life with people who love them holy and fully
right and like like like like and and will be
here for anything.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
That was really special, really special to see. So I'm
I'm I'm glad.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
I'm really happy to hear you acknowledge how I loved
you are because you are so your book is about
revealing queer visibility in media, like the stories I have
impacted you in life?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Oh my god? Now you can you you?

Speaker 1 (25:28):
You?

Speaker 4 (25:28):
You also you can think in in your in your bio.
I'm also in queer media. Okay, sorry, you in your.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Life and you're and you know it focuses on sharing
it and sharing it in your way.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
So I'm curious to ask you can we this so
much on the show? I want to hear from you.
Why do you think it's important to tell your story authentically?
What does actually mean to you to be to tell
your story authentically?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (25:53):
So you know I I have had several people reach
out to me and they just say, thank you for
telling your story so authentically and the reason why I
was so help bent on that and that's why I
will say this like like bullshit. Aside of the publishing game.
There's a lot of stuff that goes into publishing a book,
and I'm not gonna spend a lot of time like

(26:13):
harping on that. I'm very grateful and thankful that Wiley
let me tell my story the way I wanted to
tell it. And I had people in like in the
process that were kind of like, Oh, I love what
you're wanting to do, but can you do this. Oh
I love what you're wanting to do, but can you
change that. Oh I love what you're wanting to do,
but if you do it this way, we'll we'll we'll

(26:34):
buy your book.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Right.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Wiley was never like that with me. Wiley basically saw
my proposal, They saw what I wanted to do, they
saw how I wanted to talk about it, and they
said do it, and and and and so. For for that,
I will always be grateful. Shout out to my editor
over at Wiley, Laura. You've been both Lauri and Gabby,
y'all both have been so so, so so amazing in

(26:58):
terms of of allowing to be my authentic self throughout
this process. What I will say is the reason why
I was so help bent on, even when other places
came to me and said, hey, we want to buy
your book, but we want you to change this, and
I said no, And I knew I was passing up
an opportunity with a big like a big publisher. I

(27:19):
wanted it to be this way because the world has
held been on silencing and eradicating our true stories. They
want our stories with sugar, They want our stories with fluff,
they want our stories with flowers, they want our our
they want our stories with rainbows when they're when when
the world never gives us that right, we never we
never get a chance to say authentically what you did

(27:42):
to me or what you said to me in this moment,
this is how it impacted me, and that shit was
fucked up, right, And that's you know, in so many words.
I don't say it that way in the book, but
that was the onus of what some of these chapters were.
People said and did these really fucked up things to me.
And I felt the need to highlight like that because
I see it happening to other people both in and

(28:04):
out of the media, right, and so I think you
know that I can't say that enough, like it's the
way the world tries to. It's the way the world
tried to silence me as a kid. It's the way
that the world tried to silence me in college, how
the world attempted to silence me in my career. It's
always someone telling me to tone it down or to

(28:25):
try to show up a bit more respectable or digestible.
And this book is a testament to saying, fuck these
oppressive systems. Right, Be who you want to be, Be
who you need to be for those who need to
see you. And I mean back to my original thought
of why I don't have to prove nothing to nobody,
Like the girls that get it, they get it, and

(28:45):
the girls that don't do out okay, right, Like I
don't need to change for somebody to say, oh I
really love doctor John Paul. No see me in all
of who I am, bitch like, don't. And I know
I'm being real crasp and I'm cussing like a sailor
because that's who who I truly am. And I know
I tend to not cuss that much on the mic,
but I'm really passionate in this moment because I think
you know I'm talking about something that you know on

(29:09):
a grand scheme. It can be very much a press
run of Oh I did this because I really no.
I did it because I knew that there was nobody
else doing it right. And again, I don't want I
don't want to. I don't want other authors catching strays
in me talking about my work.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
But I'm saying, like, you know, I even get asked
the question, well, why did you center fat in the
middle of the Black Fat and the film? Like as
much as I knew like, and I'm gonna say this
on air because I know some people were probably like, well,
black fat Femme, that's a part of the podcast. Why
didn't you include Joho in the book one? I didn't
make that decision. So let's be clear here that when

(29:47):
I went out to sell this book, the title of
the book was not my decision. I had to go
with what my editor wanted me to go with, and
they thought it was a great idea to title the
book black Fat fam So let's start there. But I
will also say that as much which is I center
black Fat fem as the title of this book, there
is still a how do I say this? It's a

(30:08):
it was a very intentional move. It was I knew.
I knew people were going to ask that question. But
it also was I could not tell my story without
centering something that has been so pivotal in my lived experience, right,
And and I felt like if we would have titled
it anything else, it wouldn't have made sense. There was
no there was no way for me to write this
book without centering the black fat or the fem and

(30:31):
the fat. Like I said, it was a political statement.
I knew people were going to have an issue with
me saying it's okay to say fat. It's okay for
you to say black fat fem in the title, right,
Like I don't need to hide anything in this book.
And so all that to be said, I think the
the short of it, the long short of it is

(30:54):
I have no intention in dimming my life for anyone
or anyone, and I don't believe that you do either.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
We don't.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
I'm encouraging people, in this moment of their life to
recognize that you have the right if somebody says, you
know what, your personality is too big, or you you
come in and you take up all the air out
of the room, Well get a what do you call
those things that you can you can breathe on the water. Uh,
get you a snarkle girl, Get you some co two, bitch,

(31:22):
I'm not. I'm not. If I take all the air
up out of the room, that's just then you need
to learn how to breathe.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Period.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I'm not. I'm not doing it anymore. I'm not doing it.
And I think that's really what this book is. This
book is telling other books that just center on blackness
or just center on queerness, that there is room for
us to tell our stories the way we want to. Okay,
So I feel like I've been talking a lot this segment.

(31:51):
So I want to ask you a question. I want
to ask you what went through your mind knowing that
I asked you to read the draft and being that
you were the first person to read the first draft,
how has being my ace in the process inspired you creatively?

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Good question.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
First, let me just say not people, not people. People
try and make us ops, like not trying to make
us ops for each other. That is crazy, y'ah. Officially,
it will never happen. I will never be John's op.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
No, like what Also, and I even want to say this, like,
let's talk about it like it could be. I want
to be transparent. I could I even could play into that.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
We had something come through our email last yesterday. I
don't know if you saw the email, but what did
I do in an email? Did you see the email?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Oh yes, yes, yes, and yeah, including in the email
like it's the first that came to me and said, oh,
I see your book and I see this about your podcast.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I would love to have you on my show. And
I said, okay, well, just no, FYI, when I do
anything about my show my sisters with me, you'll never
make us.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Ops.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
There was never an intent for me to overshine my
girl my like the like I said, this book was
in like I had been creating this book since twenty seventeen,
So let's talk about that. Which the reality of the
matter is that you're still here and you will you
will never be in my shadow like.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
You know and and and I will say like I
have like I I like I have.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Also I supposed to like why like like why why
why didn't John like like like have you on the book?
First of all, if you see, if you see in
the acknowledgmance page, I am actually where am i I'm
actually right here?

Speaker 2 (33:32):
In the first few pages.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
So people, so cloth the gag girl, because I actually
am in the book. Second, all, if I want to
write a book, I will. I would write a book.
Why because I'm sickening?

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Okay? Right if right?

Speaker 2 (33:44):
If I write a book like and like like.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
I don't I I don't need to like like like
this is John's lane, I do not need to be
hey girl, put like I don't need to hay girl,
put me in passenger seat on this lane. Like no,
like John, I, John and I have have have a
lane to get other in this show. And like and
then John has Lene this book and like what what
friend and family would I be if I was like,
how did you not have me on this book?

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Bitch? How did you? Like? How did you not like
not have me co write something for you?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Girl? And it's to say like like we can't co
write something in the future, like I that's I'm like, I'm.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Like, this is their first book you think read might
have me?

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Like right, I'm like we can co write something like things.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
Are not things are not things are not like things
are not like things are not like like one time
only like things like we are growing as people in
the world, like we are growing as people and we
will always gross, always gross people. So I just want
to like name like I mean for some folks, like
I appreciate all caring about us, maybe caring about me
in this way and being like oh Joe, like I

(34:49):
appreciate people like want want to see me shine blah
blah blah. I shine, and I trust me gird I
shine in other ways like I shine and the like
in any ways, and I am I am a gift
to support my sister shine like it is a gift
support my sister in this and in her moment, like
when I see that.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
And I just want to tell you when I see
this book, to your.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
Point right about having fat on fat on the cover,
if I saw this as a kid, my life would
be so different. Right if I saw a black fat
femo as a kid in my life will be so different.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
And so to your question, went through your mom, went
through my mom.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
When I actually read the first draft, I mean, I mean,
I mean I will say, I was like, John, let
me help you with this.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
My bag, My bag isn't my bag isn't isn't anything.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Pletely, please let I would love to read something if you,
if you want me to.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
You did I remember you saying that, And you know,
I think like you know and like and I like.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
John John John, you were like, girl, be honest with me,
give me the give me off feedback, right, I was like, girl,
I asked some feedback.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
You said, oh shit, girls, is gonna be bad.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
It actually was not bad at all, Like it was
not foun at all, you know, And like I think
for me, it was so special, Like I.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Feel being able to see someone's process, right.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Like I've read I read a lot of John stories
that that that that they've written, written and published, you know,
on different publications, but see the story that they wrote
for themselves and their own book is so different.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
So I think it was like.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
A you know, and John John to talk a lot,
and we talk all the time, but this is a
way into their life. And and I don't just see
right because this is like you're forced to sit and
write about this, so I have to like process and
understand this. And I think it was so special to
know how you inspire, how you inspire, right, Like when
you when you've you've mentioned every person right on the

(36:40):
show and then in this book you you've mentioned every
person that you wrote about on the show or the
conversations we've had, and this book allowed me to really
understand like why they were so important to you, right,
Like there are some things that you cannot get from
like talk about one, talk talking about one.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
You have to get from.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
Their actual written word. So like seeing that was so amazing.
I was honored that you asked me. I was excited
because I was like, I think, like exclusive, y'all game
my first look because looking.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Up, wait, y'all just go wait until March for this.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah you got to read it and stip tip, but.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah, maybe okay an file.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
So I think you know, I was honored for it.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
I was.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
It was exciting, like I really like and like in
the like my lens of feedback is never about like
this this trash.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
My feedback is like ooh.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Like I want to hear more of this. I think
I think this could be more. I think I think
you can shift this. And it was so to me.
It was it was a gift that John trusted me,
that you trust me enough to be able to hold
your story in this way and like you know and
you and get to add some thoughts and perspective to
how to how you know it could be different in
this capacity or something right, and.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Also like I'm not like I'm not attached to anything.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
So if you're like, yeah, girl, now then like work
you know, like I like, I I think people like
there are some people who are really tough ship that
like that if that is just like not my gig,
Like I like like John because said fuck you bitch
for for hav to see back, and I'll be like
why you know, like.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Like at the fool like you.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
But you know, but like but but I trust John
and John trust me, and so I think it was
really it was a beautiful experience. I was happy to
do it. It was you know, I love I love reading.
Reading is fundamental to me in my life. So I
really enjoyed able to sit at my laptop and read it,
you know, every night and just and it also like
it also posts questions to me, right, Like reading the
book isn't just about concerning John's life. It's also saying, oh,

(38:41):
how how have I been shaped by media in my life?

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right? Who people that I've seen in my life? Right, Like,
some people genre about I absolutely connect with and some
and someone did not.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
So I was like, oh, how like you know the
me thing about what are people that helped me tell
my story in life.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
And I think and how you know, how how doing
your ace your sis? It's probably creatively.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
I mean, I I think like I'm in I'm always
in awe of you. I'm in awe of your hustle
as a hustle that I know, Like I know, the
hustle wears you down. Expensive almost the too easy east
and expensive, but my.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
God, you know, I'm I'm always in awe of you.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
I think, you know, it definitely pushed me to be
more creative in my own ways, right, Like I like,
I've been doing more video work I've been doing you know, like.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Like I know that I like and I want to
do stuff that focuses on being a fat person in
the world.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
And so you know, reading this was like was like,
not only do I want to my own story, but
also like to your point, I want to be a
person that like I I want to be source material
for somebody, you know, like this book is source material.
This book is going to be referenced. My memphisis reference
and civilized, like you know, reference in twenty years, Like

(39:56):
I like, as source material for other for other books
or other other you know, people who speak on things.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Uh, like with the stuff that my id creatively, I
want to do that as well too.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
I want to be a source of person a stress
material for people to really to full to pull on
and say, oh, Joe, how did x y Z like
like in in in the name of fat and the
name of fat liberation, then in the name of black ration,
the name of couilboration. You're like, that's so, I feel
so pushed to do that by reading this book, and
I feel push to understand also my history, whether it's

(40:26):
my history of who I am and the history of
people who came before me so much more so.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, it is. It was a gift to read the
book before all us. It was a gift.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
It was a gift to really get to understanding in
a dimension because I also get to learn about John
this new way too, and that's really special to learn
about when you can always learn about your friends for
you know, like I've done John for a decade now, right,
so that I can learn more about them each time.
It is such a special gift. Like I never like,
I never want to say, oh I know I know

(40:58):
everything that there's no know.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Of this person. I want to be like, oh, I'm
always saying about them in the ways.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
That was such a gift and I appreciate I treasure
it so so much and I love it and I love.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
You so so much.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
They were sister, you been a man?

Speaker 4 (41:17):
Yes, yes, okay, damn Now that I'm you know, me
and John try and lock in this netflace deal, okay
and get a show like like a show like Michelle Buteau.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, that's so good. We have we have we we
got picks and have some meetings. Will be right back
in just as sad.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
All right, child, So this has been We're getting ready
to head into Uh so I'll go ahead and everybody
know we're gonna do another another segment of go love
yourself obviously, because my god, what a moment. And I've
been wanting to have this conversation for weeks, ever since
we had Marcy on and we were originally supposed to
get into it with Marcie. If you haven't had a
chance to go since to that episode, that's episode one,

(42:09):
we talked a lot about body image, but we never
got to the actual question that one of the questions
that I really wanted to like delve into. And so
I'm like, now that we've talked about the book, and
that's honestly, this question that I'm going to post has
been one of the questions that I have gotten as
I've been on my book tour and as I've been
talking and doing a lot of press around the book.

(42:30):
Someone asked me, you know, how are you loving on
yourself in the age of Wilsithink and will go Be?
And it kind of hit me because I was like,
oh shit, I hadn't even thought about that, and so
I was like, let me bring that to the show.
I would love for you know, especially because you know,
obviously the book is centered around black fat queerness and
this idea. And if you haven't had a chance to

(42:51):
go to read the book, read the book. If you
and I'll say this too, if you are a listener
who cannot afford the book, hit me, I will send
it to you. I want to make sure that people, everybody,
and I'm not saying now, I'm not gonna say everybody
hit me and say, oh, I'm I'm record. Mother got
to mother, mother's got to pay her bills too. But

(43:11):
I do want to put that out there that if
there is someone who really truly is in a place
of like, I just genuinely do not have the money.
I don't know when I'll have the money to buy
this book. Hit me up. I can get you an
audio book if you prefer, or I can get you
a copy of the book. But just wanting to make
sure that I can put that out there and and
yes I will be the one to send it to
you personally. But anyway, all that to be said, wanting

(43:32):
to get into this conversation around how are we loving
ourselves in the age of old zimpic and will go
v And so honestly, I will say this, I haven't
had much time or space to think or talk about it,
and honestly, it's really fucking hard, especially in the last
couple of weeks. I'm about to be very transparent here,
I've been dealing with a lot around my diabetes and

(43:53):
trying to uh navigate it and and and and handle it.
It's it's very hard to be on the road as
much as I am, and to be moving as much
as I am, and to still be making decisions that
remind me of like, girl, you still need to be
really worried about your fucking health, right, And so it
just one that's hard but also like the world makes

(44:15):
it very hard for you to love yourself as a
fat person. And then like you just see like this
notion a lot of people are like, well, why haven't
you tried ozimpic? Why haven't you tried with gov or.
You're seeing people make space and make room to justify
their use of whatgov or or o zimpic right, and

(44:35):
that getting into your head and then this notion of like, well,
why aren't you doing it too? Because that's kind of
the energy I'm getting from people right now. It's like, well,
you could be on ozimpic or what goov and you're
choosing not to, So why are you not doing it right?
And it's like, yes, I have the money, but I
still got to get a doctor to say yes, I
still don't know the long term impacts. I still have
no idea how it's going to impact my body. Those

(44:57):
are all the things that I shit, who even if
it's gonna even work for me? Right, I could start
jabbing myself with it and turn around and end up
with more problems than what I did before I started
taking it. So like it's just it's it's my point
in saying all of this is like it's like, no
matter how hard you fight to love yourself, there is
always something or someone trying to capitalize off of your insecurities.

(45:20):
And I think that's the thing I've been really having
a hard time processing, you know, in all of this, right,
how am I loving myself? Is really what I've been
asking myself a lot these days and reminding myself that
ninety percent of all crazes are are are are focused
on capitalizing on someone's body insecurity and offering them a

(45:42):
red peel that we truly have no idea is going
to go, how it's going to impact them later on
down the line. And so I think, for me, what
I've been saying every time I think about this o
zimpic and what Golbi trin, I always think to myself,
I am stronger than my insecurities.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
So you know, I think I want to be really
mindful of people like.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
You.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
There actually is like people are selling you band aids
for something that is actually like has a deeper issue
that's well and like like lovingly y'all, no amount of
a zembic or reg is what is when it changed,
like like like a core challenge you may have in

(46:28):
your life right, like like and like and I'm not
saying that weight is a core.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Challenge, what mom.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
What I'm saying is like, like, if you're using that,
do you have a if you're using that for not
the purpose that's used for, which is like you can
manage the health, manage ibs for people or other health conditions.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Right, we're using it to like just lose weight.

Speaker 4 (46:46):
That's not that's not going to solve actually like like
your image issues or body issue. Like lovingly, when you
lose weight, you will not do you like not be
like I'm such a bitch, I'm good to go, Like
you're gonna actually still experience a lot of a lot
of body it's morphia still. And actually I said that
from experience people in my life who have lost weight
and you in a different way, they.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Still experience bias morphia.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
You have to go to therapy, you have to like
do other things to actually work through the challenges that
that like, like that that you may have.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Also, your health is between you, you and your doctor.
If your doctor believes that's good for you work.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
But if you're just like girl, like you guys can
do other things, then like girl, do the things you
know it's like it's like we're like we're being offered
a quote unquote like like easy way out.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
I won't believe it's also not easy. Like people experience
a lot.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
Of gastroom test gastro intestinal issues on this people legit
like shooting themselves.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
People are having like real.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Really intensely like in like intense spikes in their in
the bood sugar or blood pressure. Right, the people who
are having health conditions come out, you know, months later
from something. I'm not I'm not gonna tell you that
it's bad for you because I'm not a doctor and
I'm I'm at the scentist wading test, but like I
actually but like there's a lot of questions about is
it good for you in the long one for these things? Right,

(48:00):
When people use it for what it's used for, yes,
to study show that helps them immensely. When people use
it for what it's not used for, ak like just
for weight loss, and you're and you're also here robbing
people of somewhat life saving medication that they could be
using for their actual health conditions. It's actually showing that
it's that it's should not not as good for your body.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
So like be mindful of that.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
I also was gonna say, I was gonna say, like also,
like it's not like you can't take it and then
stop and then and then you're done, Like you got
to know the part. So like, yeah, girl, think about
what's sustabled in your life. That's not sheally not gonna
be a sustainable thing for you. It's easier in the
moment to say I'll take my shot and let let
do the work for me. But like again, like they're

(48:41):
they're offering someone that is gonna do the work for you.
But but you have to keep doings of your life.
You will never be able to stop it. And truthfully,
you don't know what's to happen.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
And that's why I say half of you Ho's was so.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
Was so up in arms about a COVID vaccine and
I cannot trust that at all.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
But the second you said weight loss girl.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, I get to be skinny, and it's it's so like, yes,
you're yes. I not to cut you off, but I'm
sitting here listening to you going the the links at
which we as people go to.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
For bandy, the right for vanity is it is so wild,
Like I I just want we all want to look
good and feel good in ourselves.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
But like I don't want to look good, but like
you can feel good. You can feel good in.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
Yourself, and that's more important if you feel in yourself, right, Like,
it's just like it's just like we will go to
extreme lengths to look like the youngest my people person
in the room. And I like, and I do get
why because that's what that's right, That's how media has
shaped our narratives in life. Yeah, but there's more to
life than like than like putting your body if you

(49:48):
harm in.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
That way, but there's more to life than that.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Personally, for me, I think how I love myself in
the age of exempic right, you know, I'm seeing a
lot of people who I have looked up to for
years who got on the zem on, the the Zempi craze,
the Gobie craze and like listen, live, laugh, love.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I hope I hope they are happy in themselves.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
I really am. I hope they experienced much from this.
But it is also sad to be like, it's just
like I think it's hard. I think also because like
this is hard to say out loud, but like.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Is that really self care, Like is that really self care?

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Y'all?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Like, if you want to change your body, girl, I'm
happy for you.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
But like but but like but like like you like
like this is a way right like like you weren't
making changes to the things in your life. You just said,
I like let me get the inject and that to
me is like is definitely self care girl, And so
you know it's it's like I likely would never take this,

(51:02):
and like unless it about medical conditions, which my doctors
like this would be good for you for like for
like medical reasons, right like, then then I would probably
consider that, but like I'm not.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I'm not gonna take it for the sake of losing weight.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Yeah, and we might not have any other like challenges
in my body in that way, right like and the
and and and if I if I wanted to lose weight,
I would do it in like in a different way,
and so you know, like and like like and if
I like and if I do great, If I don't
great as well too, Like it's just like it's just

(51:35):
so hard. And then also the people who do Gimma
Zembi and magobi, they become fat phobic and it becomes
wild like y'all y'all.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Like, yeah, I think you know. I I saw somebody
say this years ago. They said, you can't hate yourself
into loving yourself. And I think there's a lot of
people who think that weight loss, especially a lot of
us big girls who have been treated poorly for our
size for years.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
And I want to make this very clear that I'm
not saying this is somebody who has always been fat.
You know, when when I, like I and again talk
about it in the book, I went through these really
insane weight things that I did in college to lose weight,
and I lost a lot of weight, and I saw
how the world responded to me, and I hated it.
I hated how I felt so invisible until I lost

(52:23):
the weight, and then I became even more visible when
I put the weight back on, because people were like,
ooh girl, you getting big again. Ooh girl. You know,
and you're realizing you can't shop where you want to shop,
and it's just it's stuff like that, right, And so
it's just I think we're feeding into and I say
this with love, you know, I'm putting my hand on
people's shoulder. I think we're getting into a place where

(52:44):
we're starting to recognize that, or at least I'm recognizing
that a lot of us are not well. And I
say this, I guess I say this with love. A
lot of us are not well, and we're, like you
said earlier, band aids, we're looking for stuff like ozempic
and will go vy to fix a lot of the
internal stuff that we need to be sitting down and

(53:05):
processing with someone with a degree in a journal, uh,
in a in a in a focus group, all all
of the things right on a pot. Again. I know
people are like, we don't need another podcast. Maybe you do.
Maybe having a podcast will help you process some of
the things that you've been dealing with in your own life,
and you don't know who it's gonna touch, right, I
just I really am in a place where I would

(53:27):
caution anybody who you know, again, and this is not
this is not a jab at anyone who has used
one of these products to lose weight, you know. I
I listen to other influencers who do, and I love
that journey for them. I am just caution. I'm cautioning
that weight loss will not be the thing that fixes

(53:47):
everything in your life. I just want to make that
I just that's that's the thing that I'm that that's
the hill. I'm willing willing to die, all right. Anyway,
now that we have no idea what Ozempic will do
in the sure, I do know what we have to
do in order to secure our future, and that's pay
Uncle scam. So we have to take a break, and

(54:09):
when we come back, we're take a break and pay
these bills. And when we get back, we're gonna get
back with your favorite segment, Yes ma'am and No Manpam.
We want to say, okay, y'all, we are back, and
we are going to close the show like we always
do with our yes ma'am and our no Manpam segment.

(54:31):
This is where we either give people flowers or we
throw them at them. And I feel like this week
we've got a lot of flowers, a lot of flowers
to hit people with. So I'm just gonna quickly say
this my yes ma'am. This week is kind of an
ode to this episode. I want to thank everybody who
has either left a review or has said I'm going
to leave a review when I finished the book somewhere

(54:52):
for my book, I don't know if you won't know,
I think folks don't fully understand the scope of why
reviews are so important. Reviews tell not only the publisher,
but it also tells the public why these books are
important and why top why topics like my book need
to be in spaces that they are. So if you
have not headed over to good Reads, please do. If

(55:13):
you haven't left the review at Barnes and Noble, please do. Amazon.
I don't I'm not telling nobody what to do over there,
but I will say this anywhere that you can see
my book, whether it be a you know, independent publisher,
whether it be a big name publisher, please leave review
Those reviews mean everything. And even if you read the
book and you're like, this is trash, feel free to

(55:35):
say it's trash. Well, it will help me. It will
help me on my next you know, my next book
venture right, It helped me become a better writer. It'll
you know, whatever feedback you give. Now, if you're just like,
if you're what I like to call it, if you're
like a trumper, or if you're somebody who's like, oh,
I'm just gonna be an asshole because I don't like
John and blah blah blah. Okay, girl, I will I
will literally eat the meat and spit out the bone

(55:55):
on that one. But I when it comes down to
like me truly wanting to hear folks who have been
impacted by this book, whether positively or not, I would
love for you to leave a review. So that's that.
On that, I quickly want to get through this story,
but it has some layers. So I simply just want
to say, for my nomn PAM this week, I would
like to say, oh God, period, fuck the guy who

(56:20):
sat in front of me on my flight to Portland.
And I'm going to tell you the story. And why
did I break this down to you already about what
happened to me? Okay, So as I'm so, Sunday I
left for Portland, right we're filming this. We're not filming this.
We're recording this a couple of days prior to me
leading to New York because I won't be able to
record this week. Blah blah blah blah. Anyway, Sunday, left

(56:42):
for Portland. Get on my flight, get situated in my seat.
All things are good. You know, my seat mate was
working on his work. I was trying to work on
my work, and I'm sitting in my chair and I
have my iPad out. So I just bought an iPad
pro keyboard because I was finding myself not like taking

(57:04):
out my laptop, especially when flying. It's just such a
pain in the ass, it really is. And so I
was like, I'm not gonna do this. I'm just going
to pull on MyPad, so have iPad. I'm working da
And the man who sits in front of me just
throws his seatback, throws his seatback, no care in the world.
Literally just pushes the button, throws his seatback. So my

(57:26):
iPad starts to close. So I finagle my seat and
I move my tray and I try to reinstitute my
iPad again. I'm working, working, working, working, this is only
a two hour flight. He gets up and goes to
the bathroom, comes back from the bathroom, throws his seat
back again, and I said, okay, so I normally don't

(57:47):
do this, but on this occasion I did this. I
tapped him and I said, excuse me, sir, I said,
I understand you're trying to get comfortable in your seat,
and say, hey, I have my iPad open, and you
keep throwing your seat back and it is closing. My iPad,
right what and yes he was. For everybody who's listening
to the story, yes he was. And I said, you

(58:10):
keep throwing your seatback and it is closing my iPad.
Can you not throw your seatback? Who are you to
tell me what I can and can't do with my seat?
And I said, that's not what I'm asking you to do, sir.
I'm just asking you, like when I get in my
seat and I push the button for it to go back,
I do it slowly, or I look behind me to

(58:32):
make sure that the person behind me doesn't have any drink, because,
mind you, the other part of what pissed me off
so much was he's throwing his seatback while I have
a soda next to my iPad.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Yeah. Girl, So if you throw.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Your seatback and then knock my drink off of my
table onto my iPad, then I'm fucked, right. So I'm
asking you politely just just to be careful about how
you're putting your seatpad. I don't care how far you
put it back, just be careful. So it becomes a argument,
you can't tell me what to do. And I said, look, sir,

(59:04):
this conversation, over look, this conversation is over. I said
what I said, If you do it again, we're going
to have a problem. Right, So this is not where
the story ends. So I put my AirPods back in
my ear and I continue to type on my iPad

(59:24):
because I got shipped to do this. Man stands up
when the plane lands and looks at me and like
huffs like he's about I said, oh, I said, so
you want so, And that's literally how I said. I said, oh,
so you want to meet me outside the airport. Then
I said, that's what this is, right, I said, So
now you're turning this into you mean you needing to
meet me outside of Portland Airport. And everybody on the

(59:46):
plane is looking around, like I said, baby, I said,
don't let these nails fool you. I said, don't let
these nails fool you. You don't want it. You don't
want it because you can get it. And the thing
is is, if you know this about me, Joeho, you
know this man. I never get buck with people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
For reason.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I am one of the kindest, nicest, most intentional. I'm
always demure in most moments. I'm really very demure because
I usually I'm always thinking about, Okay, well, what's the
repercussion of this gonna be it's gonna impact this, It's
gonna impact it. But in this moment, all that ship
went out the window. I was ready to squabble. So
he grabbed his bag and rushed off the airplane. I said, exactly,

(01:00:26):
that's what I thought. So to that man, I don't
know who you are. Took you and I hope you
had the day and the week you deserve. Joe, what
are yours?

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
I am screaming that is just.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Maybe knock if you buck but if you but if
but like but if it like if you knocking out
a buck back and you get you get scared.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Girl, you want to be a rowdy aboudy body body bitch.
Let me ride by, bye ba bitch girl.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Let's meet. Let's meet at deck one on in front
of the lift station.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Three. Let's go. I'll see you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
I'll see you at the train station. Girl, the bus
is not running. I will get you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
I will. We can. We can meet in downtown Portland
to finish this conversation if you want. I cannot.

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
Oh so my yes, ma'am. Ham is gonna be just
to miche but Toe's second season O the thickest.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
I really need to get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
It's so I.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Think this season is so good, like it just Kim
and kiming really strong. The storylines are amazing. I really
like the queer, like the two quicktra lines I love.
I love that that they brought one one of the
actions from Harlem into the show, which I love, Like
it's just such a quick It's just it's just it's
it's really queer in the best way, like I mean,

(01:01:50):
miche but is fun to watch on screen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
It was fun to watch. It's just it's a great season.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
I'm really just like so happy with it, Like I
think it's really fantastic, so good, great like great, great rientation,
great like themes themes of like queer, love, love yourself
an older age, yourself in a bigger body, just like
amazing shit, and I just love to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
It's it's just so good.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
So you're Sam, Pam to you, Michevy toe one day,
one day you'll be on our show.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Now you really can't wait for that day. That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
And then no, ma'am Pam, I was saying earlier, y'all,
there is uh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Insert online retailer here that provides furniture one could say.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
And hold on, paup. Are they online and also in store?

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Now that they are just online, they're just online.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Okay, So it's not who I thought it was.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
No, no, no, no, because I can't make sense like I
they have instructions, but they're very straightforward, and I understand
they're like isn annoying sometimes just like I came live
an IKEA shift like like that right, like like it
makes sense to me. They they are very I think,
gracious with their drawings. And you have some places are not.
Some places are. They're beautiful and cheap, but they have

(01:03:07):
like seventy five pieces and it says do this in
thirteen steps and two hours. On step three, it should
not take this to put together a nightstand.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
It's truly.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
Maybe seven pieces of wood together. Why do I need
to insert all the Also to me, I got dowels,
I got bolts, I got nuts, I got screws.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Why do you have all these things in one thing?
Can you just give me one or the other? Give
me a dowry screw? Also, how one of the things
I put together?

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
It was like it was like, don't tighten the bolts
and screws until the end, so you want me to
have this a wobbly ass deskbach until the very end,
I said enough that I'm doing I'm doing this shit now.
And guess what it turned out? Way Also, it said
don't use power tools. You think I would have done
this by hand, girl, because I tried the first two hours,

(01:04:03):
the first hour, I so let me trust my hand.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
And that said, oh, so my bobby shit a builder,
now Bobby.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
Sh and what world? In what world am I doing this?
This is crazy? Like, what the hell do you What
the hell do you mean, bitch?

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
The girl? Do you mean? Baby? Do you mean crazy?
What the hell? Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
Y'all have to be fucked up in the worst way
to be here talking about I need to Now he's
power tools, girl, I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Used a drill and that ship was done in thirty minutes.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
But just like, just just try, like and then it's like,
you need this many people and this many things also, don't.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I just I hate it. I hate it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
I'm right there with you. I have a shoe rack
that I need to have put together. Y'all can't see it,
but to the side of me, I have this. I
have a walking closet on my first floor, Okay, and
it has nothing but shoes in it, and it's just
the shoes are strown. I've cleaned it up substantially, actually
got rid of quite a few pair of shoes as well.
I donated them, but I still need to get the

(01:05:04):
shoe racked done and I have not had the time.
And it's been part of me that has wanted to
open the box and just do it myself. But then
I keep looking at these nails and how expensive they are,
and thinking about how expensive they are, and I just
keep going. When I get back from New York, I
swear I'm going to have somebody come and finish it.
So I I understand the struggle because that brand has
a habit of sending very complex stuff to you and

(01:05:26):
then being like, oh, you gotta Are you sure you
don't want to hire a building? No, you know, you
know I need one? And that's why that's why you
keep doing what you're doing, because it's it's it's all.
I hate capitalism, I really do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Yeah, but anyway, I am. I'm glad. Was it was
it for your bedroom or was it for your roommates?
It was? Uh, it was it was for friends for
a friend, Okay, for a dear friend. Oh goodness, And
how long did.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
I think it took us waste? I think it's us
four hours?

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Ah my god. And it's a bedroom stand.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
It was two night stands to four night stands.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
No, absolutely not. Yeah, you definitely shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
If they ever hear this episode, they know that I'll
do it again for them because I love.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Them right right and I love that journey from baby.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
I will call a task rabbit for us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
That's what I'm just watch at a task rabbit that ship.
Oh my god. Well, anyway, y'all, this has been one
of the most we I swear to god, we have
been on every single plane in this episode, So thank
you for a kid. If you made it this far,
my god, God bless you. You are a true You
are a true hero in my heart because this episode

(01:06:44):
has been we have been all over the place, but
I love it and I again, I love you, joho,
and just I say this to say thank you for
all ways being in my corner. You have been my
day one since day one, and I genuinely will like
you Like you said, there's not there and and and
the gag is this too? Like in our ten years

(01:07:06):
of friendship, I have never been made to feel like
I like, you know, sometimes in your friendships you're like,
I don't know this person's moving funny, this person makes
me feel never felt that, And I genuinely want you
to know that I will always have your back as
much as you have mine. So you know, to more
greatness and to four more years of a show, because

(01:07:26):
we just hit what this is what we're on in
your three year four of us being together as a
team and then year three of the pod being on
the air. So it has been just a blast to
to to be able to do a show with somebody
that you love. And yeah, I feel like I've kind
of beat that horse as much as I could. So

(01:07:49):
with that being said, please send us your thoughts, feedback
and email to Blackfefepod at gmail dot com. You can
also send us your thoughts via social media by interacting
with our post on Instagram and Twitter by using the
handle black fatfem Pod. I will also say this if
you email us with thoughts about ozempic and with govy,
make sure they're your own processed thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
I'm not your therapist today, baby, make.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Sure they're processed. Also, I'm not gonna argue for you, uh,
not arguing with you in the in the email, We're
not Our email is not a place for us to
go back and forth with your thoughts about something that
is personal to us. So if you have a personal
story you want to share with us about how that

(01:08:36):
conversation impacted you, please come on down share with us.
But the one thing I don't want in the email
is is, y'all GOVI is. I'm okay, okay, thank you baby.
I will say thank you for sending and that'll be
as much as you'll get. No shape, That's just what
it is, all right, Queen Jojo? Where can dolls find

(01:08:56):
you as you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Can every week?

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
My log from me and Johodanel's all socials or my
website or did Jordan? Oh girl can and somebody an
name Jordan Daniels dot com, who's the bish to get
through my God?

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
If not there, you will find me in bed. You
will find me in bed, girl. I am not leaving
my bag. I'm gonna be cancing all plans.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
I may say this is a rest week for me,
Please do not in buy me out, y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
I ain't trying to do nothing. Please check my ass home, girl.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
I absolutely wish as for me and mine, you will
find me three hours ahead Eastern Standard time. You will
also find me trying to find peace in these next
couple of weeks, which is just so much going on.
And I say this with just like both personally and professionally,

(01:09:52):
It's like nothing super bad. It's happening, right. I'm very
grateful for where I am, but it is so hard
to be a one person person handling everything. So I'm
gonna put this call out. I'm I'm gonna say this.
I would love a little bit of help with this tour.
If you are somebody who just needs a little bit

(01:10:13):
of change and would like to help me, please email me.
But please know I just it's so hard to find
good help. Please be serious, like, only serious inquiries, please,
if you're interested in helping me with this tour, only,
I'm gonna say one more time, only serious inquiries, only

(01:10:38):
serious query. I'm so I'm two seconds away from titling
this episode episode. Only serious inquiries, But I love we
are not going to but I say that to say
that that if somebody is serious about wanting to help me,
please inquire if you are serious? All right? Are we done?

(01:10:59):
Joe Holle.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
We done, girl, Okay, have to do with the bowl?

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Girl?

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
We got to go all right, y'all. We want to
thank our producer Bay Wang for always handling all the
logistics in everyone over at iHeartMedia for keeping the show
up and running and supporting us through through and through.
We would like to shout out a wonderful editor, Chris Rogers,
because without him we would have no audio or visuals
for down to the tubes of you. Chris, you are
a gym. We love you deep. This has been another show.

(01:11:27):
Stay black, fat, femine, fabulous, and remember what yo host.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
We may not be your cup of Teaba girl, drinks
some water.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Your dry ass probably needs it anyways, bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Amen, Amen, the weather is dry, Your elbows are ashy.
Your knees, your knees, Baby, look like you've been praying. Yeah,
it looks like you've been. Yes, just you need a
lot of it all honey. We love you for real. Bye,
by a bye, y'all.