My Silence is a Gift to You (Featuring Rasheed Newson)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Blackfat Film Podcast where all the intersections
of identity are celebrating. I am one of your hosts,
John also known as Doctor John Paul. And while we
might now be in summer, I have officially started my

(00:21):
countdown the Pumpkin Spice seasoned. Baby. We got like ninety
seven days and may be the way that I am
ready for pumpkin everything. I always we have a question,
are you a pumpkin girl?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Okay, okay, first of all, don't jump too far in
advance because you aren't think of pumpkin spices.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
And since I'm so waiting for thought girl, summer like
the sun.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Literally just came out yesterday when need calm down.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
But yes, yes, yes he is.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I am okay. I love that journey for us, and yeah,
I see again And that makes me happy because if
you were gonna tell me no, then I was gonna
have to say, well, this has been a great show.
I appreciate everything that for our season.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
It was so nice to me.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
This year has been fantastic, But I got to go.
But I love that you are a pumpkin spice girl
just like me. We'll get into that as we get
more towards uh the no vempus of the disambers. But
how are you girl?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I I just live. I am doing so good.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Family is you're an a k Joe Ho and I too,
I too go cuckoo for pumpkin puffs. So do not
worry about that, baby boo. I mean, you and I
are so similar in many my ways, right, but we
just this past week and we're that we we're both
horror girlies or for pumpkin spash girlies. I mean, it's
it's like it's like it's like we're meant to meant
to be BFFs. All say, though, Yo, I'm coming at

(01:41):
you live from the fourteenth hour of the BET Awards
because it just did not need to rent and a
reasonable time whatsoever last night. And every time they want
to commercial, they say and coming up, well, we'll be
back for more, and I'm like, no, like can't we
like maybe this does not need to be this song?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, y'all were better than me. I didn't watch it.
I felt like it was the Hip Hop Awards, and
I said, I'm not watching that.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I mean it really truly what I mean, you know, listen,
I'm I'm I met my sisters.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
We are a black house family. My brother was here,
my niece was here.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
My my sister and my niece were so high for
the BET Awards.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
They knew every person that was coming on screen.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I was, I cannot tell you about gros Club from
a love and hip hop girl, I cannot tell you.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I knew like three pole who and they knew every
single person.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
So they they were, they were hyped for it, and
I was just like, listen, I mean, I have some
criticis to some of some of the performances, and.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
They were going and I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
I was like, okay, y'all should have like a post
show review podcast or something.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Giving all these grids, I have thoughts, but I have
to be cautious because like four or five of the
people that I know that follow me, I know work
there and they have gotten me work with them. So
I'm like, I'm just go ahead and keep the draft
I'm going out keep these in the drafts. And that case,
I loved how long it was.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
I loved being there for four hours. Thank you so much.
I loved it. Thank show and the show six My
day is perfectly thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yes baby. Well, with that being said, this week we
have a special guest. I know it's been a minute
since we've had a guest on the show, but I'm
really excited that we have this guest. This guest has
been I will say this a little off script, but
this guest has been a trooper. We have been trying
to move schedules around and trying to make everything work. Today,
this this week, y'all, we made it work. So we're

(03:28):
gonna go ahead and insert some class there. You might
know him as a TV writer and you know, executive
producer of the his show Belair, but he is also
the writer of the amazing book My Government Means to
Kill Me, which if you haven't picked up or read it,
you should because you are truly doing yourself a disservice.
Please welcome offering to the Mike Rashid Newsom. Thank you

(03:50):
so much for being on the show. Are you.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm good? Thank you for having me. Doctor John. Hello Jordan,
I am thrilled to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
I love that you are here. I feel like this
is going to be so fun and we are going
to have a lot of good conversations as usual, and again,
thank you so much for just making the time. I
know you're busy. I know the strike is getting everybody up,
you know, has everybody everywhere.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
So well, yeah, this this is fun for me. And
this is also like an upgrade because my normal experience
is listening to you guys and just talking in my
car and y'all don't never answer me. Now, now we
can have the interaction I've been having in my mind.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yes, also, come on, nails, I see you nails.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
I was like, oh, come on, yes, gel, I have
I have the gel because they sort of last longer.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
You look so good, well set, Well, since you were here,
you you probably know what's next. We're gonna kick off
our show like like we should do with our old
Tatisha Campbell asking the question for our steel Hair segment.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
If you knew then what you knew now, what would
you do differently? Now?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I mean this and anyway that comes to you you
for myself, I'll say, because.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Happens in the car.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Listen, we are we are here to recreate your experience.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
So if you want to take us today where she
take us, take us to take us, take us home
first today and then we'll pass to me about the
John read with the answer.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Come on, I'll tell you and I and I tell
this to my I have a younger sister who's thirteen
years younger than me, and I say this all the time.
I mean, when I look back over my life, especially
in my twenties, the time I wasted on guys who
I just worried about and what did they think of me?
And none of them were worth it. It was the

(05:38):
worst investment of time. I just wish I had just
that moving, you know, I just because what what I
what I feel I've learned is i've gotten older. Is
the last thing you're going to do is change someone
else's mind like that. I mean, if you, I mean you,

(06:00):
that might happen to you four or five times in
this life where somebody goes, wow, you done set me straight,
and I'm changing my ways everybody else. Just let him
keep going. Just let him keep going.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Let him go, let him go, burn the bridge, let
him go. He's worth the time, not with the time. Yes,
oh love the love the okay, John John, how about you?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
You know so, I I guess I have a little
bit of a different take on it. I mean, I'm grateful.
I think for me, yes to chasing after Raggedy ass Man,
and I know that we eventually will get into that
conversation somewhere down the line. I think for me though,
I think for me would have been the choices that
I made. I was very self conscious about my family

(06:47):
and my friends and oh, I don't want to leave
you know, this area, and so I made a lot
of decisions based off of like not wanting to like
venture out into the world, and I had put down
that I would have definitely gone to an HBCU. I'm
very very jealous of my specifically my black queer friends
who went to HBCUs and built like I feel like
they have a very solid foundation of who they are

(07:08):
because they didn't have a choice. And even though I
had my own different issues at a PWI, it just
really felt like the HBCU experienced was something I really
needed and I didn't get. So that was one thing.
I think. The other thing too, is I would have
definitely grabbed myself by the neck and said, girl, don't
touch them suit loans. I think, no, being dead serious, like,

(07:29):
I know I needs them. But I think for me,
I wish I wouldn't have gotten so because I kept
having people going, oh, you're you know, And I made
a note about this, you know, having thinking about this
and knowing that there are a lot of people in
high reed who are extremely predatory towards black and queer people,
knowing that money is not free flow for us, right,
they'll throw all of that money at you and say, oh,

(07:49):
you'll be able to pay it back later. And I
had said, I, you know, I had this conversation shout
out to my friend Angela Chante. This is a plug
her new book, The Noisy Classroom actually out. But with
that being said, we had lunch the other day and
we were talking about that, right, about the ways that
education plays in our face, and really this notion too

(08:09):
of like how your identity develops in p wis and
how a lot of your identity is not your true identity,
if that makes sense, Like I've this on the show, right,
Like am I ugly or do I did? I just
spend a lot of time around white people and that's
something I've a lot about with being out a PWI,
And so I would tell myself, girl, move change your school,

(08:32):
go to on HBCU get the hell out of this
area because it's not good for you. And really would
have told myself too not to live in the nayavete
of you know what this world does to to like
black young people. I would have gotten more black friends.
I would have told myself, you know, you are truly
way better than what the world is giving you. And

(08:53):
so yeah, that that was my thought. But what about you, Johan.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Ooh okay, but before I shot, I do have like
one spot possibly spicy question, was is there a specific
HBC in which you would love to attend or is
it just any.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Now say, I haven't had a chance to think about
all that. I probably would have went to Clark Atlanta.
I probably would, and that's just based off of again
knowing a lot of the people that run in my
circle went there. That's that was just the easy answer
for me. But I probably would have done more research
on it. Again, I didn't even know HBCUs existed because
of the small city. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
No, no, I totally. I mean same like like I
don't think, I don't think any one person. When I
got to you high school, I went to an HBCU,
which is interesting because I was in a different super
diverse high school, Like we like we were all different,
all different discanson cultures. But I don't think we talked
about like I mean for me, I think also because
we're all pas to California, right, so it's like it's
you know, it's like we're all thinking U c C issues.

(09:44):
No one's thinking out of state or across the country
or to shbcus. So we're just super great point I
would say for myself, So I would say I would
say if what I know now, I would have told
if I could go back to when I was like
a kid, I have told myself to try sports and
authentically see if I enjoyed them, not caring particularly if
someone thought I was too fat to do something. Because

(10:06):
that's what I think about a lot, is like there's
like how much I actually enjoy sport now? I mean
like sports, I mean like I'm gonna be a I'm
not gonna be like a football player. My dad, my dad,
my dad's dream would have been for me to be
a linebacker.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
I don't know what that.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know what the position does. I don't know
if she scores free throws, I don't know she does hoops.
I don't know she does touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I know I know the term terminology, but like, but
I would I would have gone back in to say,
like just try sports and see which I think, actually
think about them and like do them without caring how
how people treat you, because I like I was shamed
out of it and like and I think so much
about like how how much more? As an adult I love
movement and I wish I conditioned my body when I
was younger to be able to adapt better.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
To movement today. You know what I'm saying, So I
go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
My husband and I have two kids, and the thinking
now today is that we just put kids anything and
we don't even they don't have to even be good
at it that I do. Just yeah, all we're trying
to get you to find things you're good at. Like
if they're good at it, great, if you like doing it,
we'll let you do it.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
We'll see it. You know.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I love you said that because because when I when
I when I talk to my mom about this now,
because my my I have have ass away few years ago.
My mom mother is now like her reasoning is she
she was she wasn't sure if I'd be good and
I'd be like made fun of and like and if
I and if I would have enjoyed it now and
and I told her is like I I wish I

(11:35):
wish that she would have just done it and like
and and have scene like I I understand, I totally
understand and fierce and understand the like need to want
to protect her child. Like that's when I I will
always like have gratude for And I wish they would
have just said, let's just let's just sign up for
this and like and like see what happens. Like I
did sports camp, I did like tans camp and like

(11:57):
during summertime, but like I didn't do like like I
suld to have a test club, right, So it's like
there wasn't actual school sport I was doing and so
I wish I would have. I wish I would encouraged
to do that. And that said, I know when I
have kids, I will be pushing to them like just
to do anything movement wise, because especially because now kids
are so attached to technology, Like I know, I want
my kids to be focused on like experiencing hours wow

(12:20):
the outside.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
Because the one thing that that gave me pause is
my daughter got blessed her for like six nine months.
She was into horseback riding, and I was like, where
is this going?

Speaker 1 (12:35):
We're going by oh my, And then she.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
Came home she was like yeah, I don't think. She
was like just done with it and sort of wanted
to move on. And I was like, oh, that's okay. Yeah,
I mean and by the way, I mean like and
I guess we would have bought I mean, but there
was a moment You're just like, where are we taking this? Like,
oh my god. So now she's got a guitar and
I'm like, guitar, go go.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Love that Jenny for her, Yes, love that Johnny for
I mean, you know, I mean.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I said likely, let's say like as a as a
p today, I'm I'm in a queer kickball league and
I love that. I plan on doing a queer villyball
league as well, so I'll continue those things. So I
am healing the inner Jordan who didn't get to do
sports because of it, because of how worthy was about
his body. And I'm doing it like like like because
of it, which is so nice. And speaking of what
I know now, I do know that right now, we

(13:27):
take me take our first break, So we all.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Do that and'll be back in just a moment.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
All right, y'all. So for this week's category, we are
going to get into a conversation with Rashid about the
important of voice. And I'm excited because, like I said,
not only am I a fan of their work in
terms of writing for television, but also their book really
centers this notion around that, you know, sometimes we have

(14:00):
to take a stand, or we have to use our
voice to create change. And so before we kind of
get into what the book is about and all of
the things kind of connected to kind of the history
of your work, I wanted to ask you, related to
the book, but also not related to the book, talk
to me about how you've been able to craft your
voice as a queer black person over time, and specifically

(14:24):
this notion around like how you've been able to kind
of find your voice in spaces where we're oftentimes not
encouraged to be our authentic selves.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Well, first, I was thrilled to talk about this with
voice because I've been thinking about this a lot. I
had voice as a writer before I had craft. And
what that means is when I was young and I
would write if everybody in the class wrote a paper
about the same thing. My teacher would take the names off.
You go well, Rashid wrote this one. There was in

(14:56):
my writing voice. I like it to people who can sing.
You may not no pitch, you may not know how
to read music yet, but you've got a voice. And
I've always had that, and that gave me tremendous confidence, because,
especially growing up initially, voice can compensate for a lack
of craft. You know, you can figure out the technical

(15:18):
stuff later. Sometimes people have such tremendous voice they never
bother to learn the craft, and that'll trip you up.
But I did. The biggest challenge as a professional writer
was not letting not letting my voice sort of get
co opted or have the edges shaved off of it.

(15:41):
When you join a television show, you are being asked
to sing with the choir. Yeah, every episode needs to
be in the same voice, which is probably not your
own right, And I still, in that case, tried to
find characters and moments that spoke to my to my
particular talents. One thing I think that's been very gratifying

(16:04):
with the book is that when you write a novel,
it's all you and you go anywhere you want. And
so my government needs to kill Me is written in
the first person because that really highlights voice, right, Like
you get to pick one and you've got a sore,
and that voice has to cure the audience to the
entire book. So that's been, that's been. That's been great

(16:26):
to sort of be able to just have that freedom
and storytelling. Yeah, it's but my voice over time is
something I've had to learn to value and to protect
and by the way teaching. I've been on shows which
I will not name, where you get in there and
it's just not for you, like this is not the
room for you. And I think sometimes people take that

(16:48):
sort of failure as it were, to heart, and boy
did we just shake it off. People were like, well,
that was not our show. Let's go find one that
matches what we have to offer.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Hmm, thank you, thank you for response so much. I
want to get a little bit into the book and
like being a voice to talk about, like the voice,
and like the setting of the voice, like where it
is and when it is a couple of the experience
of writing a book set in the middle of the
Aige crisis.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
But they are a black cord lens, which is.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
I mean, and please tell me if I'm wrong, because
like like like maybe I'm not a well read person,
but it's not a lens in which I think we
have yet seen in literature like like to this extent,
Like I think that I think a lot of like
plays like English and America or The Normal Heart AND's
like which gives a background, like like my backgrounds more
in theater, but like definitely not black centric whatsoever. I
can't and in Maydia, I can only think of Pose

(17:40):
as a TV show focusing on these experiences. So I'm
really curious to ask, like, what problems you do your
voice to this story that hasn't fully been explored yet.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Well, it's I saw the gap and I thought, well,
I know what to do there. I can I can
offer something in that space. I also feel and one
of the things I think is the strength of the
book is the further we get away from a subject,
the more truth we can tell. Yeah, So in those
immediate years afterwards, there's still an I mean, and I

(18:12):
mean it this way, there was just a lot of
whitewashing of that story. Yeah, because what they're trying to
do is get people to be sympathetic. They're trying to relate.
When I think of the gay movement in a lot
of ways, what I see as a movement that is
trying to make itself understandable to the people in power.

(18:33):
So if you've got congressmen who are all white, you
send down a white boy who could look like their son,
preferably someone who reads as you know, masculine, so they
don't have to think about what we do when we
get in bed with each other. And we've sort of
constructed a political messaging system based on their terms, based

(18:56):
on what they find palatable. I believe that's breaking down,
and so it's nice to be able to deliberately center
a story, uh not on someone young, someone black, someone effeminate,
and someone who is still having sex in the middle
of the age crisis, which is which has been something

(19:17):
that has been interesting in terms of people who come
up to me who live through the era saying, you know,
I'm glad somebody said it, because there's almost this feeling
and a lot of the stories when you go back,
everybody's being very chase and everybody's being I'm like, people
never stop having sex, And we just went through a
pandemic where they were like, y'all need to get away
from each other, and people kept people.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
That people yes, God, so yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
So to just be able to bring all that to
the forefront because I think, I think I wanted to
tell a story about someone who seemed like an unlikely
candidate to be a political advocate, but truly is very
effective because I think when we see those people, we
almost put them in this heroic light that absolves us
from having to do anything because we're like, well, I
could never be that good, and I'm like, baby, their

(20:18):
lives are as messy as yours, right, you know, they
just made a decision to find some place to donate
their talent and time and you can do the same.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, And I think it's I'm glad you mentioned that
because I know, you know, shout out to the entire
team over I don't want to say shout out to
Netflix specifically, but shout out to the team who over
at Netflix was behind the Baart Rusted. You know bayart
rustin movie. You know Coleman, I know is in that film.
And I think for me, the thing that I've been
thinking a lot about knowing that I've seen a lot

(20:49):
of documentaries and a lot of information about bart is
how messy his life was, even though he was a
part of both movements. Right, He was a part of
you know, the black movie. He was a part of
the queer liberation movement, and so being able. I appreciate
in your book that you note that, right, this notion
of and I think that's one of the things that
I think are one of the things that I think

(21:11):
people come to this show for is that it's not
a nuanced look at the black queer experience.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
There are a lot of ways that respectability politics kind
of pour into the ways we talk about history, the
way we talk about blackness in history, the way we
talk about queerness in history. And I love that your
book doesn't shy away from that. It's not saying that
we had to look at this in a specific way.
It really is this is what was happening, this is
how people were living with it, and this is how

(21:39):
it's impacted us even now in twenty twenty three. And
I did want to say very quickly too, for people
who are listening. I also think something that you said
that is very imperative for folks to hear is that
even though the AIDS crisis was major, and you know,
there was a lot of talk around it in the
nineteen eighties, and we kind of feel like that conversation

(22:00):
has died off. It's still a thing like That's the
thing I want to make sure that I make very
clear is that we are still dealing with high numbers
of HIV and AIDS cases. It's just not being purported
and being cared for or being talked about in the
ways that we talked about and then like the early
nineties of the two thousands.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
So I want to something you just said that. Just
like so for this book, my main character, Trey goes
to New York nineteen eighty five and he's just sort
of smack dab in the middle of the age crisis
and gets pulled into act up and he becomes this
sort of advocate while he's also just trying to figure
out his little young life. Right and he comes there,
it's like where am I going to live? Who are

(22:40):
my friends? Where am I going to work? Where am
I going to get laid? You know, like that that
hierarchy of basic.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Needs, mass hierarchy of needs, that's it right there.

Speaker 5 (22:50):
That's so he's doing all that the booty, and I
think that gives a lot of colors and influence to
the book.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
But I have n't interact with real people, and so
with with Rustin coming into the story, yeah, I mean
there was a moment where I pause and I'm like,
are we gonna do this? Because we have him in
a bath house, because there was this black bath house
in Saint Norris Baths in Harlem, which is sort of
amazing to me because they closed every single one except
the black one.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to why.
No one ever said, uh, we know why, we know why.
But I'm like, if I really got to put him there?
And then I came across that arrest record that, uh,
you know, mister Rustin got arrested in Pasadena where I live, uh,
for lude conduct. And here's what I love best about that.
It was with two other myth good on him.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
I said, Wow, Mama said she was going to live
her best life. Related but not related. My husband always
tells me a story about where he ran into who
is the baby that sings two dy fruity oh rudy,
you know, little Richard. Mama ran into little Richard down

(24:05):
down in Los Angeles and she was getting her life.
And I've said, good on you, Little Richard, good on you.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
I love At this point.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Little rich ain't with us no more.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
How when the story happened was little Richard.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I don't know Little Richard. I think we had to
have been in like her sixties at least, because I was.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
In the streets in her sixties.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I'm just give her life.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
So yeah, I want to say allegedly because I don't
want nobody coming for me, but story out there allegedly
of Mama being out there getting her life, and I say,
I love that journey for her. So so you know

(24:48):
now that we do talk about I guess one of
the things I wanted to ask is during your time, right,
you did a lot of this book, a lot of
your even just your writing in general is pretty much
kind of shaped by your lived experience, and it's and
from what I was able to see that you did
work with different centers, and you've done a lot of
work in terms of, you know, for the community. And

(25:10):
then all of a sudden, you kind of like me
with education, said I want to do this, No know
why I'm going to go work in Hollywood? Why what
made you what drew you to Hollywood and what specifically, like,
how did you maintain kind of that element of wanting
to kind of speak for or advocate for us when
I say us collectively us in an industry where oftentimes

(25:32):
we're not seen.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
Well, it's something that sort of happened and I discovered
about myself in my early twenties. I mean, I had
been a youth advocate since I was a teenager. There
was something called the President's Summit on Volunteerism when I
was sixteen, I was a youth delegate and I addressed everything.
I mean, I mean when I was that kid, I
was into that. I went to d C, went to

(25:56):
college at Georgetown. While I was there, I worked the
whole time for the National Crime Fritian Council, Youth's Resources,
the Center for Juvenile Justice, and that last job, the
Coalition of Juvenile Justice, was me primarily trying to make
sure that youth offenders weren't executed, that law was changed.

(26:19):
I mean, and if I die, I'm proud to have
played some small role in saying we have to stop
doing that, sentencing people younger than eighteen to death and
then executing waiting till they were grown, and then executing them,
which was our which was our which was our plan.
Back then, it was intense and I didn't have the
language for it, but I was beginning to experience burnout.

(26:41):
I was surrounded by other people who had been doing
this for twenty thirty years, and I watched them in
their fifties or middle age, really hit a wall. It
didn't bring you a lot of security. It was a
very draining way to work. Some people can do it,
but I was like, I don't think. I don't think
I have the stamina for this. I should also say that,

(27:05):
you know, George W. Bush was in his second term
when I finally was like, I'm going to LA. I
did not know Obama was coming, you know, like if
someone could have told me, I mean, I could have
worked in that White House, I could have been something
in domestic affairs. But I did not see that on
the horizon. One of my friends, one of my DZ friends,

(27:25):
is John Favreau, who became Obama's head speech writer. And
people would be like, oh my god, how did John
get that job? I go, that was not a hard
job to get when he applied for it. It's the
junior senator from Illinois. You know you're going to be
a speech writer for some guy. I mean, like, no
one saw where that was going to go. I mean, otherwise,
the line, the line of applicants would have would have

(27:46):
circled the district. So you some of it is just luck. Also,
when I stopped and thought about it, I was writing
short stories. I was doing creative things in my spare time.
You know, it was not like I was doing political
things in my spare time. So I thought, this is
who I am. I also believed wholeheartedly that I could
go to LA and if I failed, I could come

(28:08):
back to DC. You know, somebody would hire me and
pay me to write for them. So it seemed like
a safe bet, even if it looked like a big lead. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Interesting, Okay, so I had, so I had, I had.
I had a different question originally, But hearing this, I'm
shifting a little bit in real time, and so I'm
like trying to think of like how to really craft this.
But when I'm hearing from you in this conversation is
like there's a strong focus on work within community that
is really important to you, hie. And that's when that

(28:42):
is also I think very clear, very clear from the
book as well, and they'll be just like I haven't
I haven't read I haven't read the book, so but
hearing like from this conversation, like like the character Trey
is very involved in community and it's kind of thrust
into community and like and then finds that finds a
lot of joy and like power from it. I mean joy, joy,

(29:04):
joy within burnout because like the burnout leads to you're
happy to be here and you're also exhausted to be
here too. And so I'm I would be like, I'm
curious to ask, like because now the like and this
is something that I relate with a lot in my job,
Like the transition is that you transition from being into

(29:25):
in community to like now representing and in some.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Ways like being.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Like being in charge of storytelling of like community, which
is like a huge, a huge switch. And so I'm
I would love to hear a bit more about like
just how like how you're like like roodiness in community
committee practice and like work for community, like I'm actually
helps develop the stories that you want to tell or

(29:53):
you have or I have told today.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
Well, I'll say I wanted that's a good question. And
before I even tell you about the stories. I'll tell
you what that My being rooted in community affects the
environment of who we hire and how we treat people
while we're making the work. Right, I am always for
the person over the institution. Okay, the institution will figure

(30:16):
it out. The show be damned right. Like one of
the things I would teaching i became showrunners in bel Air,
I would say to people, I am not killing myself
for this, and neither should you, right, So whatever's going on,
just tell me we figure it out. I want to
still make I want to make the show great. I
want to do the best work we can. But I

(30:38):
will be sick to my stomach if I find out
people have made deep, serve personal sacrifices that were actually
just unnecessary to make. So I think it goes to
how I treat everybody before we even start talking about story,
I am interested in story. I mean, you're always trying,
friend to make the character do something interesting. I would

(31:00):
like to know how their place in the world informs
that decision. So I can give you an example with
bell Air. Season one of bel Air. This is the
conversations we're having in the room. Let's go with the
premise that every black person in America who's quote unquote
successful has had to come up with their personal plan

(31:22):
for dealing with racism in America. And I want to
see all those plans in action and in conflict. And
I know that sounds really heavy, but it gets really specific.
Between Will and Carlton, it was magic. It was magic
because it's not just Carlton getting on Will's nerves to

(31:44):
be a pest, and it's not Will just showing up
Carlton to sort of steal his thunder. What you have
happening is two black kids who are used to being
the special one, everyone's favorite, but they operate in different
ways of doing that. And now they're in a room
together and there can only be one winner. And that

(32:08):
is what's at the heart of that conflict of well,
who's going to be the top dog around here? Yeah,
and not knowing how to exist in any other way
as a black young man, like that's how you've survived,
that's how you've been rewarded. I want to see all
that in action.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
That It makes me feel something and it also makes
me question. You know, there are multi multitudes of questions
and thoughts that I have when you when you say that, right,
I know it's just a show, and I know it's
based off of the Fresh Prince, Right, but I even
think about maybe from your own personal standpoint, and again
just a thought, you know, the question of us having
to negotiate that too within our own like blackness and

(32:50):
our queerness. Right, this, like what does success mean like
in your own head? Right? How how you had to
like kind of built that out. I'm dealing with that currently, right,
you know, I'm having to tell myself every day, girl,
you are a hundred times further than where you started,
So give yourself some credit. Right, But there's still this
notion to feel like you have to be hard on

(33:10):
yourself to find success. But there's also this other piece
of me, this questioning you know what I hear you saying,
and and please correct me if I'm wrong with this
whole notion too, of like the crab and the barrel mentality. Right,
So this notion too of like there can only be
one black person who finds true success in a space
and not saying that that's true in any kind of

(33:31):
way in relation to the show, But I think a
lot of black people feel that and often kind of
tend with that too, right, especially in this industry where
black people are intentionally pushing out other black people, you know,
in front of buses and in front of trains to
be able to stay and in a lot of way.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
In a lot of ways, I mean, we've been playing
that game since we were children. Did you want to
be a starter on that team?

Speaker 3 (33:56):
You know?

Speaker 4 (33:56):
Did you want the lead role in the play right?

Speaker 1 (33:59):
You know?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Did you want to be Grandma's favorite of all the cousins?
I mean, all these things. You've been playing that game
a long time, and then you get out too the
workforce and it's it's I mean, they're not kidding. You know.
If you're sitting in a a in a lobby ready
to interview and there are three other black people there,
what you're going to do? Yeah, we can't all have

(34:22):
this job. I Am going in there to beat you. Yeah,
And it can be hard to turn.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
That off, yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
I mean my thing is, like, I get it, there's
a place for competition. You know. I'm a very competitive person.
I want to succeed. I am ambitious. But I've had
to learn to turn it off. And that took a while.
I mean, I was not I was a cold piece
of work in my twenties.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
I mean I'm actually in d like a cut through
a place like yeah you have to.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
And it would be I mean something as small as
I mean. I still I like to dress nice. I
like clothes. I like looking good and cute. I was smart.
I knew how to dress in a way that was
going to get someone's attention, get someone's face, just catch
your eye. I'm trying to stand out here. Yeah, you know.

(35:22):
And it just it's it's learning how not to let
that poison every aspect of your life. I mean, I
had a boyfriend in my early twenties, and I mean
what I could see is like even when we were together,
we would be debating and arguing and it was sort
of hot, but like we both had to win, like
it couldn't. I mean, it's just like I mean, at

(35:44):
some point, I was like, cold, God, we gotta stopped,
Like right, we gotta get out of this, Yeah, because
we couldn't turn it off.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
I Before I go to my next question, I think
the other part two that I think is imperative to know.
I love that you're talking about center care for folks now,
like the grown you and the change you it's more
care and that's kind of what this whole conversation around
community is. And also even with voice is knowing when

(36:12):
you know, and this is something that I talk to
a lot of people about too, and this whole like
allyship and this accomplished ship conversation, right, what can I do?
You know? A big part of it too is knowing
your place, knowing your privilege, knowing when to step up
and knowing when to step back. And I love that
there's an element of even in you talking about just
being in your rooms or in the work that you
do showing care and community for other people who look

(36:34):
and live like us, and that just really makes me
very happy. So I want to ask this question because
I know we have a few more and then we
have to jump to our next segment. But what I
did want to ask is, you know, each week it
feels like the government and really the world honestly is
doing all that it can to take away our voice.
And so besides writing, what are some things that you

(36:55):
do not only just within your work, but also like
personally And that this is something I'm asking this more
kind of selfishly because I'm in this place of like
I'm currently in my own head trying to figure out
who I am without the Moniker doctor John Paul. You know,
I've gotten so wrapped up in like I'm an educator
and I'm a writer, and you know, I do this
thing and I'm a podcaster and I do and so

(37:16):
everyone knows me for what I do. But it's like, girl,
who the fuck is you without all of those titles?
And I don't know that's something like who is John?

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Right?

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Like who is John? Who is Jonathan? And really thinking
about like how do I not lose my passion, you know,
when for using my voice or for being out there?
And so I guess that's one of the questions I
have for you, you know, in your journey and knowing
that you're constantly having to both fight inside and outside
of the system, you know, how do you continue to
recenter yourself and your voice in the in the process.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Well, part of it is I try to do my
service now, I mean whether or I think of like
being a parent as part of my service, but part
of trying to just put two people in the world
who are not going to cause more problems, you know.
But when I think of like the mentorship or the
volunteer work I do. Now, I'm trying to have it

(38:10):
be something that is not just good to do, like
eating your vegetables, but something that's fun and something that's fulfilling.
I also just want to remind like, if you're a
person of color, if you're on the LGBTQ I a spectrum,
we do not have to go like put out every
fire that's that's actually not that's not We didn't start

(38:33):
them and we don't have to put them out.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Didn't Did you talk about that last week?

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Joe?

Speaker 1 (38:38):
I'm sorry when we talked about that last week.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Go ahead, and so you know, so part of me
is I mean I have had this thing where I
always have it to do list, and I would get
to the end of the day and punish myself because
I never got this to do list. I never and
I had to just stop and be like you you
did enough. Whatever you did today, you did enough. That's
what you could do. That's what you can do. I mean,

(39:02):
I mean really, I mean some days, I'm like, you
know what, they should be happy. I came out and
smiled at them.

Speaker 6 (39:08):
Hello, Okay, right time I came and I got dressed,
I came down here.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
I smiled at y'all. There was somebody who was who
was mad at me because they had done me wrong.
But then they were mad at me and I saw
them briefly and I didn't say anything. I just kept
walking and they texted me later, you're not talking to me.
I can't believe I speaking to me. And I told
them my silence is my gift to you. Yeah, you

(39:37):
don't want to hear what I have to say. Well,
that's me being kind. That is my mercy. Okay. So
somedays some days I get home at the end of
the day and I go, what did you do today?
And I go, you did not tell that person off?

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Good for you, not me about the title this episode,
So my silence is a gift to you.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
I mean, I was like, you don't want to hear
what I have to say, Like, let me just go on.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
That's the dame of this episode. My silence is a
gift to you. Well, I know that's today. I felt
that deep in by Shondo because I even had stuff
about it earlier today in a meeting. I was like,
if I say how I really feel, y'all gonna leave
this meeting, it'd be very upset, So let's wrap this up.
Let's wrap this up. I love it.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
And by the way, and that's something and I don't
and I don't think it gets I mean, there's supposed
to be this idea that everything we're feeling can be
put into words that other people are gonna understand. Right right,
we are unique beings. We are really like we have
been living in existence. They are they barely can perceive,
like they're just now being like, oh, is that what

(40:51):
that was like for you? So we have feelings they
legitimately cannot handle. Yeah, jgitimately cannot handle. I mean I
had to do this and I love my family, but
in terms of coming out and stuff. And at one
point they were like, how have we hurt you? And
I was like, I can't put that into words. You will,
you will, you will if you hear what you've done,

(41:15):
it will so destabilize you. You will never be able
to look at me again because you will feel that bad.
So just here's my forgiveness. Let's move on from here.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Let's move on.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
You know, that's that's like, that's deeply empathetic in a
way that I haven't thought about before, because I mean,
because I think like, first of all, the idea of
our our signs, our signs being a gift to you
is like, I mean, I think it's such like it's
an interesting thing, right, because I hear that, and I'm
I'm holding like I'm holding the notion of like if

(41:49):
we're selling about our pain, like they like they will
kill us and say and say and say that that
we enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
But also like we.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Always like like we don't like we actually don't always
have to voice something because maybe because of your point,
like if if we tell you we're thinking of feeling,
it will actually change everything that you thought about yourself.
And the the danger in that is like then the
like then you'll be distracted from the actual work to repair,

(42:18):
like if I tell you what if I tell you
what we did wrong, you will only focus on how
you were wrong.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
That you won't focus on what you actually can do
right and stuck in the past forever exactly.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
And I mean when we just say, like about your family,
when I think about so much, because you give me
make a framework in which I haven't thought about to
work with because in my family, like in my conversations
are often like this notion of like what like, what
what could I have done better? When when you're growing up?
How could I have been this?

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Or you grow up?

Speaker 2 (42:49):
What did I do wrong? And I and they and
they're like the reason is like I like, I don't.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
I don't. I don't understand how me understand?

Speaker 2 (42:58):
And I think the way you frame it is actual
really great because it's like you actually don't have to
ever understand and we grew quite frankly, I don't want
you to understand it because it's painful.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
I don't want you to know this experience all.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
I just need you to know that that I've worked
through it and that like and then and that we
can work there because yeah, so just.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
And this is what I need and this is what
we need now. This is what I need now going forward.
And by the way, I I mean, Lord knows, I've
spout my mouth out of a lot, so I don't
want people to I am not exactly suffering. I'm silent,
but what I have had to I've had to learn
because there have been times I've blown up a room
and it's the only person who got hurt was me.
You only like they want like they want to come

(43:37):
talking like a thousand crazy things were said, and I'm
the one talking to hr. I mean, I don't I
don't understand it. So I have to be very clear
about where I am and make a call about will
this advance me? Like can they hear it? I mean,
I've been on I've been on seasons of television where
I know that that they were baiting me.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
Yeah, people were saying something to try to get me
to go out and step outside myself.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Which is which is? Which is? That happens a lot
for us? Yes, that is?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Are you up in the trap? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (44:14):
I like when I was in my twenties, I went
for it every time.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah, it's Charlie Brown with a football.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
You know what I wore this time? Yes, but.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Year old, we'd be like, God, know what you're doing
and they go work today. It don't go work today.
I see you, I see you.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
My favorite now is when people talking euphemisms. I go,
I play, I go, I go, tell me more. But
what do you what do you mean by what do
you mean?

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Please?

Speaker 4 (44:44):
I want to, I want to. I don't know, I
don't understand. I was on a show and I named
I named the character after my sister and my sister's
name is Aisha and a and a higher producer comes
in and says, I was just listen name. I mean,
I just wonder is that a common name? And I said,
it is in some parts of the world. What is

(45:06):
it your what is your question? And what we wanted
to get to was like, well, are we deciding that
this character is black?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (45:12):
And I was like, I'm like, and I'm like and
I I just like, I go, would that be a
problem for you if we made this character black? Would
you object to it? And then it's oh, now they're
backing out of my.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Office right because it's like asking questions, just keep going
what what's behind?

Speaker 4 (45:29):
I don't under because they're they're trying to get us
to explain ourselves. I want you to explain yourself.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
You go first, Yes, I really like, I really hate that.
Like I I I from a pr lens. I understand
the reasons why people are vague, but like what what sound?

Speaker 1 (45:47):
What sound is?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Like, I mean, it's it's sad because it's true, like
if they don't say the thing, then they can't be
in trouble for thinking the thing.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
They have to walk around the thing.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
But like, girl, just say the the thing, Like I'm
make make them say the thing, or if they don't
have the nerve, make them leave.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
M Okay, bitch, I have this literally literally literally in
my mind is like achievement a lot like that, like
like like leveling up, like like Joe's evolving into Joe, like.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Just so so much for this. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Wow. Okay, last question, I know not did the break
give me life?

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
You're giving, you're giving, Yes, it's giving, or we're doing
some reflection. I'd love to also ask for some inspiration
a little bit along the lot lines what John was asking, but.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Particularly like when.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Like thinking of our bff black Fat Fams who listens
to the show and who may work in this space,
what advice would you give them to master their voices
in the space of like writing, storytelling TV.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
I mean, what I the thing that's happened again? This
is so this sounds easier than it probably is. The
moment you can define your success and your joy outside
of the prescribed sort of package, the easier and the
better off you will be. Like I mean, I have

(47:17):
been I have been on shows where they didn't get me,
they didn't like me. I realized that and I was
able to let go like I think I have friends.
I have a friend now who's in a bad job
and it's and it's really punishing, and he's got this
thing of like I can't let them win. If I quit,
I let them I'm like, when what your time, your devotion?

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Get out of here, baby. The way I'm not about
to let nobody. My thing is is that if I
can't sleep at night, somebody's got the answer to that.
And I'm not get somebody else to do it. I
want to go to sleep. The two things I hate,
being as sleepy and hungry. I'm not doing it.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
I tell you, I mean this. Parenthood did this for me.
An age did this for me. There was a time
when I would work around the clock and I I mean,
I remember when I went to a show once. I
didn't leave the office of this show for forty eight hours.
We were in a mess and I just stayed. I
was a production assistant when I was in my twenties.
We'd be on location to two in the morning. I'd
be driving back on the highway, music blasted, wind, windows down,

(48:24):
slapping the inside of my thighs to stay awake. All
of this is ridiculous. All of them but now I
have these kids and they demand my attention in time,
and I'm gonna give it to you, and so I
don't have all night. I also, this is so silly.
I have been benign positional vertigo. There will never be

(48:45):
a telephone for this because it's just I get dizzy.
I get dizzy. I cannot and if I don't watch myself,
I will be laid out for three days. Wow. What
triggers it? Stress? Lack of sleep? Yeah, I gotta go
to sleep, baby, I just can't. And so if I
start to look at something and it looks like it's
gonna take all night, I just let her by know

(49:06):
it's gonna becoming a day later.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah, you know what you hit it with the Jane Jackson,
I got vertigo. I'm not doing this. I will cancel
everything because I think Janet she got vertigo, and she'll
cancel a tour in a second if she start to
feel dizzy. And I love that for you. I love
that for you. I think the thing that I'm hearing
and I think this is something you know. Every every
week we have someone tell us, oh we took something

(49:29):
different from me your show, And I think that the
thing I'm really in and I'm trying to like kind
of center these days, is that she can wait. Like,
I think that that's as much as we're talking about
voice and we're talking about who we are, I think
that we have gotten to a place's people, especially black people,
black queer people, where we feel like we have to
be perfect and we have to constantly be on and

(49:49):
we have to constantly be on to the next thing.
And I love that I hear you saying through your
voice to slow down and really kind of you know,
take a moment, take a beat. It's funny because Steven
says that to me Albatai Stephen Canal is another frint
Our show. He always tell her slow down, Yeah, And
so I love I love that That's what I'm hearing
in this conversation too. But with that being said, speaking

(50:12):
of voices, we are being told by the voice of
capitalism that we have to take a break to pay
some bills. But when we come back in a minute,
we are going to talk about healing more.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
In a second, fam we are back, and for this
week's segment, we're going to get into a how you
healing moment that focuses on something that our guests mentioned
in interview that I feel is so timely making time

(50:43):
for yourself.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
So I would love to ask, what is something that you've.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
That you've been doing or want to do to recenter
you and all that you do for the world. I'll
start first, Then I'll Pastor Rashida, then John Yep so
I will so so I'll be miss saying like the
way like the ways I feel the most centered is
when I'm like I for the most align with who
I am. When I'm cooking and when I am and
like and when I'm just enjoying nature in some capacity

(51:11):
with it means like walking, sitting outside, taking in sunlight
and like the wind.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
The elements, not all all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
So I would say, like when when in this one
that I've been talking about on the podcast trying to
do for a long time and really have not done
it yet because I keep telling myself and I don't
have time for en trying make myself time for it.
But like one thing about this week of you know,
like being here with the family and having things to
do at the end of the d the work day
is I'm going to spend my time cooking, Like cooking
makes me feel connected to who I am.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
A mix.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
It's like how I express love, It's how I express
like care for myself and others. And so it'll be
so like I am striving to make more time to
cook because I know that when I buy too much food,
that's when that's when life tells me that I become
too stressed. I am no longer in control of myself.
I'm too stressed to function, and so I cook to

(51:59):
like help myself self work with that. So cooking is
what I want to do to recenter myself. And walking,
because walking is like when I say, I don't have
to give in to the rush of life around me.
I can set aside this hour or so to just
like move my body through my area and that field
that that that that's that feels so good and and
and so my challenge right now is my challenges on

(52:19):
Shabbat on Fridays to spend an hour up to work
walking Like I got work early on Fridays. I don't
need to be running around around on my phone.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
I can take a walk and just enjoy mustard.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Bitch, shalom, bitch, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
As Moses said, he.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Picked up the grabinacles he said, shalom, bitch. Yes, that's
what BOS said. What about you? She?

Speaker 4 (52:48):
I thought about this and I was like, is this
gonna be too cheesy? But I'm just gonna go with it.
It's gonna leady, okay. So my kids go to this
like very progressive hippie school, like there's a farm big.
They do a thing called quiet tinkering, and it's just
like you're supposed to just drawing or whatever. And we
do it before bedtime, so they begin to climb their

(53:08):
bodies down and go to sleep. They do it to
school for okay. So I've been you have to do
we do it with them, do quiet tinkering. I have
suddenly gotten my son, who's five, all these lego castles,
like the Harry Potter ones and all this, and they're
like six thousand pieces seven thouand it takes days to
build them, right. It is the most soothing thing. And

(53:29):
I mean, I mean technically I bought them from him.
And then I'm like, is this what you wanted when
you were a child? Is this you? And by the way,
and he'll like sometimes wander off and I'm just like
I'll be back there. I'm like, I'm just still building
this by myself. Yeah, but there's this feeling of accomplishment.
It looks beautiful. You can sub out. We have so
many pieces. You can you can give it a little flair,

(53:49):
you can do it your own way. You don't, you
don't have to do what the box says. And then
two days later, after all this, you break it apart,
right like their kids, they break it apart. And I'm
still working on that, on accepting how nothing is permanent.
It goes and you can work on it really hard
and make it perfect and it's still gonna be in

(54:12):
pieces back here by the end of the week. And
that's part of it.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yes, So I will say this shout out to a
friend of mine who gave me the little flower. Once
she gave me the flower, uh, and I have yet
to put that thing together because I don't think I
have enough tenacity in me to sit and do it.
I'm one of those people that can't sit for a
long time. I don't know if it's underne you.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Do a piece by piece, literally, you do a pedal
by pedal, just you know, to do it in one sitting.
And by the way, some of them are so large.
What's great is you cannot this is meant to be
days and days.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Yeah, So I'm I'm gonna I'm piece by piece. I'm
gonna go ahead and try to get these flowers done.
I've been sitting. I have one done, but I need
to get the rest of them done. But all that
to be said, I appreciate you talking about, you know,
the walking and the cooking, because everybody knows that John
is not a cooker. I do not cook, but one
of the things that I do I've been thinking a

(55:12):
lot about is how much time do I give to myself?
And it's funny because I actually tweeted about this, you know,
I was going back and forth about what am I
gonna do for my birthday?

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Because I have not truly so like I.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Know, people have been like, oh, you've been in you know,
New Orleans, or you've been here, You've been in New York,
You've been here, you know, you went to France this year,
But everywhere I've gone has been for work. Like I have. Genuinely,
everything I have done for the last year, even though
it was like a really cool place, I still was
working literally ninety percent of the time while I was there,

(55:46):
and so I was like dumbing through. I call it
shout out to Carnival. If y'all want to sponsor this,
you can. I am a big I love carnival cruises.
I know people are probably like, oh, you make too
much money to be on a carnival cruise. Carnival cruises
are fun. They are They're just fun. I love the
idea of I can go for three days, I can't eat,

(56:06):
I can sleep, I can go to just three days
of just pure let me disconnect. And I'm in Mexico
on the mons.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Yes, Yes, I love.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
I love that. So that's that's my thing of like
giving myself more yeses and not making excuses for why
I can't do things. Cause I was trying to figure
out every single reason for why I couldn't go on
this cruise. I kept saying, oh, you know, my husband,
he's a banker and he doesn't have time for it,
and we don't. And I just looked at myself and
I said, girl, book the cruise. Just book the cruise

(56:40):
like you. You're not you never. So that's like, I
think that's the thing I'm just I'm doing more is
thinking about this notion of like you can take a
few days for yourself. You can go somewhere by yourself,
you can take days off to recalibrate. And I think
that that's really where I'm at, is like I know
I need to recalibrate. I'm feeling get in my body

(57:00):
in different ways. And you know, I hear people Saint John,
you need solow out, you need to rest. I hear
you all. I love y'all for taking care of me.
But I'm also in this place of yes, like I
really definitely need to take more time for myself. So
giving myself the time away is basically what I'm what
I will be doing.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Love and feel that for you so so much, and
I'll just say it like when when people don't When
people say, like, you need to rest, you need to
do this, my first thought is like, Okay, well, when
you can finance my rest, you let me know. When
you can finance the rest I need to take you,
let me know, girl, I will how we get the rest, Okay.
But I really am here for you giving more time
to yourself. You know I feel that I love that

(57:41):
myself too, And you know I'm in in in honor
of our of our still living legend Maxine Waters. We
are going to reclaim our time, and that's take some
time for our break because we said so, we'll be
back with our yes me men and no man PAMs
in just a few moments.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
All right, y'all, So this week for our yes ma'am
and I know manpads, I'm gonna go ahead and start off.
I know last week I flipped it, but this week
we're gonna go back to traditional my yes ma'am this week,
so I wanted to shout out all the folks who
are pushing back, specifically the judges, and I hate that
the bar is so low where we're like, yay, a
judge did something that was actually like nice, They actually

(58:27):
looked out for us. I hate that the bar is
so low, But I am excited if y'all have not
been paying attention, or if any of you may not
have been as connected to the news we saw this week.
In Arkansas, they overturned the band on gender firming care,
and then a judge in Florida gave that dumb drag
band the boot. And basically we're seeing more and more

(58:47):
states that are coming in and basically are saying and
making up laws to like band book bands, if that
makes sense. I know California has done it. I think
Illinois was another one who has done it. So there's
a lot of different states that are popping up and
saying we're not gonna ban anything over here. If y'all
want to learn the history, you're gonna get the full history.
And so I hate that we have to celebrate this,

(59:07):
but because you're like, this should be standard, this should
be the stuff that we're all really truly excited about,
and we shouldn't even be here. But at the same time,
I'm really grateful and thankful for the people who are
truly utilizing their voices to step up for us and
to make sure that people can just be themselves and
be happy and live, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

(59:30):
So with that being said, I just wanted to recognize that,
specifically with the last few months that we've had for
my no man Pam. So I really hate to do this.
I am a Starbucks card and I will also say this,

(59:52):
so I'm going to date myself and please jump in
if you can with me. Rashid, there was a time
where Starbucks had a gold cord where if you were
the girl that went to Starbucks daily like a or
worked there, because I did work there back in my heyday.
I was I was a barista, I was a green

(01:00:14):
bean handy. I ultimately I spent a lot of money
at Starbucks, and I will say that I have. I
still am like I actually went. I hate to say this.
I went to Starbucks this morning because I had to
do something and that was the quickest way for me
to get food. It was like literally ziped through the

(01:00:34):
drive through so I could get to where I needed
to go. Like I literally am that girl that if
Starbucks is there, I'm gonna go. However it's a hit
or minute. My heart is what's the word I'm looking for.
I'm conflicted. That's the word. I'm conflicted because Starbucks. I
don't know if if you all been following or if
you know, but Starbucks, uh, they're basically have been telling

(01:00:56):
their baristas not to put up anything related to Pride
this month. And for a company that, in my opinion,
used to be extremely inclusive and used to be very
supportive of LGBTQ people. Everybody's everybody, Like last week when
I saw I don't know if any of you know,

(01:01:17):
but there's like this massive boycott that's getting ready to
happen with a lot of boycott, but also folks are
actually striking too. There's folks saying I'm not going to
spend my money at Starbucks, but there's also people saying
I'm not going to go to work, and so it's
just kind of like the week before that I had
to get into Target's ass, and now I got to
get in a Starbucks ass, and it's like I was

(01:01:37):
root for you, but also at the same time, what
the fuck is my basic ass gonna do? No Target,
no Starbucks? Like, what what about me? What about my needs?
Where am I supposed to go?

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
It's almost Monique, it's almost there, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Since she got your degrees and you know, every fucking thing, right,
Like that's literally how I feel. But what about me?
What am I supposed to do? I'm just gonna say
this that I'm gonna pass it off to you, Rashid.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
I'm tired.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
I am really tired. Like between this striking Hollywood. Target
is now acting a food Starbucks is out here showing
a ass like what who am I gonna give my
my my queer coin to? Who am I?

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
What am I I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Know I know where to give my money, but still
you know, but.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
Here's the thing. I mean, like they think of your
utilities right, like you don't have an emotional attachment to
the to the to the power company. You just pay
the bill and the lights come on. And what's happened
is these corporations were like they get they got this
little game goings like love me like we're friends. It's
really just a place where you exchange you know, money
for goods and services. And it didn't have to be

(01:02:58):
the You ain't got to love them, Yeah, you just
you got to get the lowest price or whatever the
hell you buy it. That is it. And I mean
like you have I mean I love this like like
you have no affection for the power company. You don't
even think about it. You just that the bill comes,
you pay it right and then. And they're not trying
to be your friend either. They're not like in Edison

(01:03:19):
about what character.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
They said, we give you the ability to record your
podcast everybody at six p m.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
The money, Like I just think it's like just just
decoupling is almost what we need to do with somebody's company.
Like I don't you don't you clearly don't love me.
I ain't gotta love you, right, but I mean you still.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Give me cheto and let's go. I love that. I
mean well, I mean well that said it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
I mean I think it is a great point about branding,
like how I mean Target brands itself as this like
right place to get your life star brands and stuff,
as like as at this place where you like we.
I mean, it brings itself as like your neighborhood coffee store.
It brings itself as this place values of people that
come through doors. And yeah, I mean it, I mean

(01:04:05):
versus the electric company, they'll do branding like like like
like it is the basic need that we needed electricity.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
So they're like, we don't give a fun.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
They're exactly like you ain't got no options, baby, It's
either us or darkness.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
You want you want? That's done over here. There are
no other No I'll be out the transparent where I
live for those of you who know, you know where
I live, Like I am in a truly suburban area
and there are no other Like I would literally have
to drive thirty minutes out of my way to get
to a coffee bean, to get to a literal like
there is a coffee spot, but it's only open to

(01:04:44):
like literally maybe like one near me. And it's like,
you know, sometimes that's that's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
A law of judgment for Vocal Starbucks.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
But like, but but my privileges, I can watch a
coffee shop within five minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
That's not yeah, yeah, no, but all of that they're
also true. I'm just saying I'm tied. If you are
going going to screw me, screw me just like don't
don't like that's what I feel about these companies, and
you have a good point, Like, I guess that's what
my no, man, Pam is. I'm really truly annoyed with
these companies who have sold us this vision of like
we love you, we see you, we care for you,

(01:05:15):
and then turn around and fuck us. It's like, well,
if you're gon'na fuck me, girl, fuck me. But at
the same time, don't, like, don't don't don't try to
course me into believing that you are gently going to
take me to dinner when all you really truly wanted sex.
Let's just let's do the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
Girl, that's all they ever wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah, but if you're gonna fuck me, but don't name
at the title of this show, but I'm not gonna
do that. What about you, Rashid? What of your guests,
ma'am's and you know man pans this week?

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
Oh my my, yes, ma'am is. I mean, I think
everybody who I'm forty four and everybody who's younger gets
this horrible rap or whatever you know, and I I
can't tell you how an I am of the younger generation.
I love the fact that you guys are redefining your
your your relationship to work and to money and to life.

(01:06:09):
I think you guys have realized the world is on fire.
Most of this stuff it's bullshit, so I might as
well be happy while I'm here. I I you know,
I may have been born too soon. I really I
really find that inspiring. And I don't want you guys.
Don't let anybody my age tell you anything different.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Yes, yes, I receive that, because I'm can tell you
right now one thing about me. I will look at
somebody and go, I'm going to take a nap. I'm tired.
I'm not doing this with y'all. You could just be mad,
but I'm taking a nap. So yes, yes, but your
no no.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Man, Pam. And And it seems to happen every year,
and it happens as a member of the black community
and as a member of the queer community. You know,
Black History Month will come out or Pride will come out,
and then there always be somebody somewhere who has to
try to look at me get their attention moment by
telling us how they're not with any of this, how

(01:07:05):
they don't think all pride is not for me. I'm
not a Then go stay at home. You know, we
don't need you to actually carry out pride. You are
not an essential worker in the pride drama of our lives.
If you don't like it, leave it alone. I mean,
pride is there for the people who need that and
want that. I'm at the point that. Look I used

(01:07:27):
to I used to be the boy barely wearing anything,
going around having a good time. I'm not at that stage.
I'm not at that stage of life anymore. But I'm
there are people who aren't that stage of life, and
let them go get it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
You know, I got nothing to do with me.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
I'm always just sort of baffled. There's a there's a
piece in the New York Times when some somebody wrote
about pride.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Yeah, I was like I was like, I was like,
is this one giant to the article that was about
like I'm gay and I'll never be normal or something
like that, And it's like, I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
It's a total baby. You don't need to put this
in the time. You don't talk to a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Therapist, Mama, Okay, stop bothering the rest of us. Let's
talk about it to solve you. See, man, A lot
of it is self paid, That's what I There was
a tweet though, also there did you. I don't know
if y'all saw that tweet last week about that young
gentleman who and I don't know what their pronouns are,
so I'm just gonna say the young person. I'll scrap

(01:08:28):
and say young person. There was a person who was
on Twitter talking about I don't like pride. I don't
want to be anything about pride, And I'm going, baby,
this is reading like you don't you don't like you like.
This is not reading a thing of you having issues
with pride. This is a U issue.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
So confused. If you don't want to get dressed up
for Halloween, for instance, why do you have to tell
the rest of us about it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
What is that? What is that? An indictment on the
rest of us who want to ge dressed up for Halloween. Yeah, like,
I don't under like participate, don't participate, but basically decide
because you're not interested, the rest of us can't have it.
I'm just I'm just confused, And also like, I mean
this idea, like, is this your personality? Is this the
whole of you?

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Is this who we are?

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
I mean, if I if I had space in the
New York Times to tell you something about myself, Yeah,
this is what you chose. And do you not see
yourself being used? Darling? Like you don't like I always like,
I'm always thrown when they go to Trump round they
find the one black person there and they're just so
happy and smiling, And I'm like, do you not know
you're being used? Like the whole point of view is

(01:09:37):
that this is so this is so outside the mainstream,
it's supposed to be noteworthy, when in fact it's such
an anomaly it doesn't really need mentioning.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like, I don't like, I don't like squash,
but y'all don't see me going down the Panera bread
and knocking the squash soup out of people's can't like
that's not eatch a squash soup girl, make sure you
put some nuts in it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
But that ain't that ain't It also makes me feel
like like, I mean, am I wrong? Have we been
forcing pride on people? Are the parade kicking doors? Are
we walking through the houses the people who didn't want it? Like? Like,
are you? Can you be somewhere and studly find out
you were in the middle of a pride celebration you
did not want to be in. Are we doing pride
flash moobs? I mean you have to go there and

(01:10:19):
if you don't want to go there, stay your ass home.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Stay home. That's what I do. I don't there's too
many people for me, so I stay home.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Yeah, it's real.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
I love it. I loved it. What about well?

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
So so also say that my that my yes man
Pam was a response to that article because it's been
I mean, if there's one thing that that has united
the queer folks across the spectrum, has it has.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Been this article that we've been like okay, like the
person who wrote.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
It like for.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Like, yes it is. It's like it's it's giving self loathing,
it's giving self patrid it's giving, like like it really
is giving, like I mean like to me, like it
like it's pick me, choose me, love me, Like that's
how it feels because like they get.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
They put this out during Pride month. I'm sorry, but
I mean truly and I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Like and and I mean and and and and also
also I mean like like shame on your time for this,
Like I really am like n my t like of
all the bad stitues, this is when you're like, know
what this is an interesting perspective we have not yet shared,
Like this is this is the one that you were
like this is great. You know this why er they
went they went and they went and talking about oh

(01:11:32):
you know like I'm I'm I'm super uncool.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
I'm I'm a strag race. I don't even a fair island.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
My my skin care of routine is so like girl,
no one like no one cares. And also like like
like what's what's interesting is that like is like where
what were just demonstrates is like how vapid you think
we are? Like like all this tells me is that
like this is what you think being queer and trends
or across uh is Like that is like you like

(01:12:02):
you have been reductive for us, and this whole article
is reductive.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
And I'm like you are making a point about like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
How you know you'll never be normal, but honestly you
are because you're reducing us to nothing, like you are
being with the what the normal people do to our community,
and they're like they're their whole point of like like fight,
like why do we fight to normalizings? It's like like
to me, like part of me honestly is kind of like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Have you truly faced discrimination hey in the ways that
like many of us have no.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
Because if you can, because if you did, if you did,
then like like then you know that then you know
that our fight to normalize isn't to isn't to feel normal.
It's so people stop thinking that we're so like be
like be on comprehension that they stop stop trying to
kill us. Like it really it really is a very
like like simple thing like that's route is really really

(01:12:59):
simple that I'm like, like it was just really to article.
So I but I'm happy, yes, ma'am told the people
who respond to an article of like this is just
giving like Jock who became non Jock and callback and
like is just mad about it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
But I mean, and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Let's listen, like Keith Harmer says, if if this person
on the street, I wouldn't know a thing I would
I don't know who they are, like you know, like
maybe they are super fascinating person. I would love I
would love to you to know them actually hear actually
hear them in conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
But like this, this was not for me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
So yes, Mam paments reactions because I was like, wow,
for once as a like, for once, as a gay
amongst the sea of gays, we're all united against this
gay right here and live back for us my no, ma'am,
Pam is to one's to one Rondo scientists for discussing
for sharing Satan ron de Satan ron Ron to Satan,

(01:13:53):
thank you for discussing his his his his his idea
of immigration citizenship policy if you were if you were
to be elected president, which quite ffactly like I.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Don't think he would be.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
I think my way I care about Highman by Noman
Pam is that him bringing this to a national conversation
is going to give many others uning for president as
well to have that part. Are then not talking that
part of national conversation and like like I don't understand slash,
I don't I don't want to understand, Like what like
what the reasoning is?

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Like change his policy?

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Like like if you are truly building, like if you're
truly trying to build a great America that you believe
you want to build, then what then? Like then like
the whole the whole point is that people who are
born here like inherently become naturalized as citizens, So like
why like like why like why shift? Why shift that?
Like and besides that, I do not like these policies.

(01:14:48):
I'm like, do you do you think that this will
keep people away from coming here? But it won't, like
it like it will just keep them from from from
doing like safe and like safe things for themselves that
the the only keep them more safe there alive in
this country and like it, And I mean it's like
it's like it's it's like it's like a sad ploy

(01:15:09):
to you know, to keep America a certain way that
really isn't conducive or productive or good or good for
this country Like you are then you want to keep
more people out that like are here to mid this
country actually better.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
It's just it's so sad. It's like it's sad.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
It's it's like it's really it's like it's like like
you're reaching for policies that don't make sense at all
to shift and I really just like I don't understand,
and there's there's no very much I can ever see
this being like a remotely good thing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
And also he's just such a trash person. And also
I'm just like, wow, just trash Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Like I don't I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
I don't get to say, I don't get what people
want to be in this state.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
I'm trying so hard. He's hard. It's you happy to
learn he's nine points down. It sucks because he's nine
points down behind Trump, who is up twenty nine points.
So it sucks because he's still he's the worst of
the one, if that makes sense. And like and he
like he honestly is my fear, like like like just
like Dissenter saying, this is what makes me fear Trump

(01:16:06):
implementing that policy, right, because because Trump being relected is
a very real fear, Like it's a very real fear
that very.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Actually can happen that truly terrifies me. And like if
that becomes this policy oh, I can't again. So I
would say, put both of them in a you know,
a trash container and shoot them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
To the moon. I really I am so over both
of them, and I hope they choke. So with that
being said, thank you everybody for Thank you everybody who
continues to come and support the show. We would love
for you to see your thoughts, your feedback in your
email to blackfatfempodogymail dot com. You can also send us

(01:16:46):
your thoughts via social media by interacting with our post
on Instagram and Twitter by using the handle at black
fatfempod onto instagrams and also onto twitters. Rashid can you
tell us where the people can find you?

Speaker 4 (01:17:00):
Absolutely? On Twitter, I'm at Rashid Nussan. On TikTok, I'm
at Rashid nwsan.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Talk.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
I mean I'm the oldest person on TikTok. Please come
see me try my husband making the puss. They're good.
They're good though. And then on Instagram, I'm at Rashid
dot Newson dot author.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Yes, you can chase their book everywhere where books.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
Are sold right everywhere books yourself. Government needs to kill me,
please come and get it, you know, I mean my
thing is like you. People talk about they want more
stories of color. You gotta support the ones that actually
get through.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Come get a book. Okay, publishing situation, I'm going through
it right now and it has been hell. So I'm
just letting you know I feel you, I see it,
and I definitely support it. So yes, please buy their book.
Queen Joho, where can the dolls find you?

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Ofuse always my usual liege of subjects. You can find
me at Johodans across the landscape the interwebs, and if
not there, you will find me commenting on every every
picture of Beyonce post saying I love the showing for
you girl, I'm so happy for you. I love the
offor ship posting, I love the fashion. But where are
the visuals? Stop playing in our faces. I don't care

(01:18:16):
what you wore last night. I don't care if it's Cabali,
I don't care if it's me and you. I don't
care if it's Target.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
I just want you to let me know when the
visuals are coming out you. I need to know, please
that I tweeted that you know she's she You know
how last week she did the reading of the baby
and she's like, oh, it's gonna be a girl, and
everybody was like, well, I said, if that was me,
I would have passed her a note and it would
have been a gender revealed. But when she opened it,
it would have said where are the visuals? Like, I

(01:18:43):
don't I don't care about anything else. This tour could stop.
I just want to know what the visuals are.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
Listen hello the way I'm about to.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
I'm about to tweet everyone and her dancers and say,
dancers go on strike, don't until the visuals come out.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Her hairstylist follows me on Insta and I have been
messaging her almost every week and I'd be like, I
know you've seen in visuals? Where are they? And she
just puts the lol every single week because I'm on
her Yeah, because I know she's seen him. I'm like,
but where are they? But with that being said, I'm
right there with you. As for me, you can honestly

(01:19:20):
catch me going out of my way to go get
my liquid crack from Duncan until Starbucks get their damn
act together. You can also find me at doctor John
Paul Everywhere, or you can visit the website at ww
dot doctor John Paul dot com and Yeah. With that
being said, we want to say thank you to our
supervising producers Rebecca Ramos and Bey Wang for handling the logistics,

(01:19:42):
the scheduling, everything and everything related to the show. We
love y'all and we thank you for all that you do.
Our executive super producer Ana Hasnia and everyone over at
iHeartMedia for keeping the show up and running. We would
also like to shout out our wonderful editor and engineer
Chris Rogers, because without him, there would be what no show?

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
Okay this is?

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
This has been another one. Thank you all for listening
and remember that if they want to, they will. I
love us for real. Bye bye, Hie

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