The Conspiracy Theory (Featuring jarrett hill)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey, everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Black Fat Finn Podcast, where all the
intersections of identity are celebrated. I'm one of your hosts, John,
also known as Doctor John Paul. And you know, I
really hate having to yell when I when I had

(00:22):
when my mom yelled at me, it meant that she
loved me. How dare you? I'm just kidding, you know,
Mickey D's McDonald's. Okay, So come on in here, girl.
So the thing is, I already know that we're not
going leading. Yeah, got put the go ahead and open
the golden arches, go ahead and put them down. You know,

(00:44):
I know we're not supposed to eat there, babe. But
and I know I get it. I get it. I
get it, I get it, I get it. Okay, we're
boycotting everything. No fun whatsoever. Nobody have any fun. Be miserable,
sit down, there's nothing. You can't do nothing. But what
I will say is this McDonald's, girl, your breakfast is

(01:06):
not hitting the way it used to hit.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Girl.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's it's not it's not it's not for me. Babes,
you know, I know, you know that, there's just you
used to be that girl. What happens since like the
breakfast used to be tasty? I and maybe maybe just
because I was a fat kid, it was, but it
used your breakfast game used to be on lock and

(01:31):
now I have it and I'm like, what is this?
What is this? Honey? Like it used to give the
girls a good run for their ten am money, but
now a three dollar hash brown and it's greasy and
it's nasty, like you could just it's nasty. It's just

(01:53):
not good. I don't know, I don't know. I just
I just I don't know, I don't I don't know.
I'm just I was so disappointed this weekend I have
breakfast and I just was really like, really this is
what this is what we're giving now for eighteen dollars
for a breakfast? Okay, all right, but anyway, enough of

(02:13):
me about subpar food? How are you? My love?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know, I just when my voice sound like that,
oh my god, I just want to say, like it
really times is hard. Towns is hard for all of us,
more even for them them. Think at them, say gas
breakfast places. Yeah, it's it makes you said that things are.
Things are premium pricing, but not premium premum taste.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, and it makes.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Really sound and I just know, just know that I
pray for it. I pray for I pray for bad times.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I pray, I pray with.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
Time, time, time to change, lovies.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
It is your best Yoda, Judo girl, Jutdom today Judai
in Kansas, not moll.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Why don't I see a bird? When you said, Joe,
what what kind of bird? Y'all?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's early for some of us, Okay, So y'all go
to rock with it today. It's your best Sie Joho
or Jordan Nasty. And I just want to say that
that this is your sign to get the bodume application
that you wanted. You want fuller lips, get the filler sister,
you want a little extra shine, get that botox. It's

(03:22):
not my journey, but I love it for you. And
the world's burning anyway, so you might as well go
down looking the way that you want.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, I truly, like I.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Used to really know it, I can never and and
it's it's still I maintained I could never could not
be me. But who am I to say for someone
else's happenings? Just make sure that you acknowledge that gender care.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's what the work see. People like to play. Oh,
I wouldn't, got babe. That's jenderfer me is. Yes, it is.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
If you want a little augmentation, it's okay, part give me,
give me, give me a little extra silicone. It's some
general firm care like don't don't, don't, don't go for
the dolls who are the same things you do.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
And I will say this real quick before we introduce uh,
the star of the show this week. I remember watching
did you ever watch MTV's uh what was it? There
was an MTV show and they were they were I
think it was what was it called Man? I am
failing in my journalistic back today. It's practice. Like I said,

(04:23):
it's early. But it used to be an MTV show
and it used to be they would follow people around
with different stories. But there was one where a man God,
True life, Thank you. I was every show. Yes, yes,
True Life. Yes. I'm just gonna go ahead and intro
in this week we are great in our third seed

(04:43):
by someone who is known for clocking tea an award
winning journalist, once president of a U N A b
J L a USC Hey professor and writer of one
of your favorite books historically backphrases, The voice you hear
is my favorite Harvard grad graduate Jarrett with two t's Hill,
thank you for being here today. Back to my point life.

(05:06):
Remember there was an episode with a man who had
got got leg implants. Do y'all remember that.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
He literally got silicon.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yes, he got silicon. Yep, he got legs. So you
know how like the back of people, he had chicken legs,
and he was like a bodybuilder type situation, like he
was going to the gym all the time, and he
was setting very insecure about his legs. So he went
and got like silicone implants in the back of his legs.

(05:39):
I don't know what happened to that man, but I
always felt bad for him, Like I was like, you're
walking around with like silicon chicken cutlets in the back
of your legs because but again jender firm in care.
But anyway, that's what that reminded me of. This man.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Oh, who I pray is still here with us on
this earth who may listen to the show.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Just got triggered.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
Because you had to be like you have color legs.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
He did.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Now you look around like damn good time. Now he's now,
he's gonna start crying. He's gonna write our show even
be like, how dare you, bitch?

Speaker 1 (06:17):
I mean, I'm just here again, my ns. Today we're
here with journalism to talk the truth. We're here. We
are here to talk facts, and that is what we
plan to do. But how are you here with you?
How's your traveling going? I know you've been traveling.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I am doing very well, thank you. I'm I'm just
concerned about the guy with the caffine plants that certainly
listens to the show, and it's probably having better breakfast
at Wendy's than at McDonald's if you want to get
into it. Okayakfast sand which is a situation, but don't
get me started on that.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Okay, Okay, thank you for putting me on. I always
think kay at her breakfast. But it's just if you're
telling me it's better than McDonald's, I may have to
trust you.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Listen. I grew up with McDonald's as like this my
fast food breakfast standard, and then like really appreciated the
CRS sandwich when it came out at Burger came but
still amen McDonald's, Amen, Amen, baby, that breakfast baconator with
the side of potatoes, that situation that they have at Wendy's.

(07:23):
You gotta try it.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
And yeah, best, yes, I will definitely, you know what,
So I may end up it won't do I may
not do it today. I could do it tomorrow because
I got a meet in tomorrow. But I'm I'm I'm
definitely one of these days this week. I'm gonna go ahead,
and I'm gonna go ahead and slide through and see
see what it's given. But I am so happy that
you are here. Thank you for making time and uh

(07:45):
you know, and and being here, uh for the silliness
that is black fat fan, but also you know, for
all the fun that we're about to have.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
You know, I just wan point out that talk about
as I had won't complain to anybody for breakfast, So
just think about that anyway, share as we say, We're
so have you here that today you know that you
are the Queen of investigation? Yeah, I said no, no, no,
posession the time for a bottle.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
I'm so very sorry.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh wow, well I guess it's so no. Please please
please please please No. I was gonna completely unrelated to anything.
I'm like I don't think I've had the tackle Bell breakfast,
but that's.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Not I've never had it either.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I feel like I've tried one thing from there, but
I can't speak to it well enough to give you
like an analysis.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, when slash, if you return, because honestly, I would
never want to return if it was me.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Let me tell you.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
I hate it here, Okay, you know I think that
you should go to the drive through, give you something.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
And see what happens.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
I just know.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
I'm just saying they had to get a little breakfast retail,
which who doesn't love a prefast retail's delicious?

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Do they have tackle Bell where you are?

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yes, they do. And I hear that Taco Bell abroad
is actually better than Taco Bell.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
And you should live abroad.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Being out of America
getting Mexican food and at all is very difficult, and
I want to be clear to all of my Mexican family.
I know that Taco Bell is not Mexican food. I'm
very clear about that. I grew up in California, so
I could eat Mexican food. I could eat Mexican food
every day. But I know here because you know, I

(09:32):
can't get it, but I'm excited to try taco bell.
I do like trying fast food abroad, just to see
what's different. McDonald's here has all kinds of things that
I've never had.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
So I think I've told the story. Go ahead, go ahead.
I think I've told this story before on the air.
But when I was in France, I made it a
point to try to get to the air well. There
was a McDonald's near where I was staying, but I
literally didn't have time with what I was doing. When
I got to the airport, I was I gotta make
time to get to the McDonald's to try the McDonald's there,

(10:02):
and I ran out of time and I never got
to try it. So I'm still kicking myself because I'm like,
I really wish I could have said I had McDonald's
in France and I could compare what it was, you know,
But this was, you know, like I said, this is
two or three years ago. So we'll see. But one
day I'm gonna get there and try it.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Jerry, when you when you try it, I will be
really I will yearn for your report back to me.
Please write for your responsible Okay, actually, Joe this is
how she was good or Joe, you're wild, stop talking
about talking about and wrap it up as the mother
I said before Nancy Drew Adinet got ship on Jerry Hill.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
So this, as we always do, we gonna kick up.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
For a show some in the gloriosity gloriosity of our
Campbell who stills yet to be on a show, gir
we hope you come on a show soon.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Now remind the dolls.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
That we are still here even though life has tried us.
You want to start the show by asking, how are
you redefining black excellence to not feel so damn heavy
and heart on yourself?

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Maybe as a being changed for you over the years.
I'll start first, and then we'll go to John.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Now say for me, I've had to adjust my relationship
to the word excellence, probably because I think the world
is the word is the most adjacent to perfect like
we use it because we know we can't use perfection anymore, right,
so we say excellence instead by chanting the phrase. But
between the phrase doesn't like release the pressure that I

(11:32):
like that there is and in the phrasing. So I'm
trying to just the idea that I am aspiring for
black excellence and simply that maybe I just am black
excellence with a simpleness of like embracing what I am
the white person in this country, that like all of
us are inherently black black excellence simply by being who
we are.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Knowing that you know.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
That some folks are not as excellent as others for
a lot of for emultive reasons.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
That she knows what.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
I'm just saying.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
If I believe in the freedom of all people, then
even people who who I don't, who I may not
believe they're.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Excellence, are excellent.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Mm I agree.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Like I'm not saying, I'm not saying I have to
love it. I'm not saying that to love it best
the belief that was giving I love her love.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
I love her, love her, I love her anyways, Jared, Yes,
what do you think? How are you?

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Are you? So? I actually have a really complicated relationship
with like the concept of black excellence right now, because
I feel like it is kind of a double edged
sword in that one, I think it's always important to
celebrate our achievements and to highlight the ways in which
we are are defying the odds, right, But I also

(12:57):
find that a lot of black excellence tends to feel
like respectability politics, right in trying to show that we
are worthy or prove that we should be here or
or or have to like press our way to like
prove that we that we belong. And so I'm I'm
really like struggling with what I believe about black excellence

(13:20):
as a concept of something that we always push as
like really really important because a first happened, or you know,
and an extraordinary thing happened. I have a really mixed
feeling around the concept of black excellence.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, that's so real, as you should. And I think
a lot, like you said, a lot of it is
really rooted and based in respectability politics and this idea
of if other people deem you as excellent or great,
then you know, it never really comes down to this
idea of like how do you feel about you and
your accomplishments. And so I love that you mentioned that,

(13:57):
because I that was one of the things that I
in my response. I wish I would have kind of
like pointed, but I was gonna say. I actually sent
you a text this week. It said, girl, I'm out
of black around nobody, bitch, I am on e And
I I think It's important to note that a lot
of these systems that celebrate black excellence use the same

(14:19):
framework as the oppressor to make you feel like you're
not good enough, or to feel like even the good
that you've done is still Like I've been saying this
for like weeks and so many different iterations, right, It's like,
even when you do great things, you still have to
do something greater. It's like, you know, I've seen interviews
with certain celebrities, specifically black celebrities, and they'll be like, Oh,
this really great thing happened to you, so bitch, what's next?

(14:41):
And it's like, girl, can I just tell them?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:45):
It's like, oh, so you wrote a book, so what's
what's what are you doing next? And it's like, leave
me alone, like I And that was one of the
that was one of I will say the thing that
heaved me the most on my book tour was literally
that question every time people. And again, I know it's
coming from a really sweet place, Like I think people
they want to see you excel, and I know they

(15:05):
want you to keep doing great things because in their mind,
they're going, Wow, you just did this thing that a
lot of people truly can't do right. There are a
lot of people, you know. I even was talking to
a doctor when I went to the doctor last week,
and he was like, I've had an idea for a
book for years, and he's like the fact that you
finished yours is and you know, he was like, I
wish I could. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. But
even this idea, when even for him he was so,
what are you going to do next? It's like, girl,

(15:27):
can I just ask in the idea that I published
the book? Please? Like that's enough? And so anyway, I
just love that you asked this question now that we
have Jared on here, because I can throw it back
to him. A couple of years ago, me and Jared
had dinner and one of the things we were talking
about this conversation about black excellence is that how it
centers even when people don't think it does. It centers

(15:48):
the crab and the barrel mentality without asking why we're
in the barrel any damn way. And I remember you
saying that, and it sticks with me every time I
think about black excellence, anytime I think about respectability, politics,
anytime I think about anything related to that, I'm always
like that Jared quote sticks with me around asking why
we're in a barrel anyway, And so it's just it's
it's a lot of pressure we put on ourselves to

(16:08):
be better than the other when we know that that's oppression,
and when we're in this reality that we're fighting right now,
like right now, we're all fighting the same fight, especially
black people, and so you know, I think that's what
it means for me right now. It's like getting out
of the idea that I have to be better than
the next black person and looking for ways for us
to be better together. So like even in this conversation,

(16:30):
I'm like, I'm looking at three, like two people who
have done some really amazing things, like you on a
community level, Joho, Like you, you've got san Diego on
lock and I know that you're doing great things there,
you know, ghit Jared with two teas. I know you're
doing amazing things both locally and nationally and globally. And

(16:50):
it's just it's really nice to be able to just
be like, these are just two badass friends that I
have and that's okay. They're just bad asses and they
don't need to constantly, you know, keep going for black
excellence per se like they are Black excellence just by
being just being by being alive. I think your your
legacies will you know, will speak for themselves down the line.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
So I think I think one of the challenges with
the idea, with the ways that we talk about black
excellence as being this thing that everyone should be striving
for is kind of related to like, I'm always really
challenged by the ways in which we measure blackness by
whether or not you put hot sass on this or

(17:31):
if you saw that movie, or if you've been to
this place or if you know that reference or whatever,
and that makes you more or less black, and like
it's fun colloquially, but it's also starts to exclude certain
people and make them feel like they're not as black, right,
And I think there's the black excellence tends to the
need for black excellence all the time kind of makes

(17:53):
us have this idea that if we're not excellently black,
that we're not black enough, or that we're not worthy
of backness, or that we don't show up as black,
and that our blackness is not worthy of celebration or
commemoration more memorialization right back, that you're just showing up
every day as a black human being is not enough.
Like that is one of the things that I'm really

(18:15):
really challenged by with black excellence. And again, I think
it's important to celebrate the ways in which we strive
and defeat the odds and all of those different things.
And also I think it's important that we're we're thoughtful
about the ways in which we are are are centering
black excellence as as incredibly important all the time.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Real real, yeah wow.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Now that we have all told doctor Karrengaa Karanga, doctor
than doctor Karrenga that we are tired of.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
It's Kozie Jacquelea Cusi Jacquela.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
I just I knew my brain new was gonna be
tough for me.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
But I do know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
You are a fight for your life girl. I saw
you read it and you said, I said.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
But I do know what that means self determination?

Speaker 2 (19:13):
I do. I do know that.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Okay, my confquensis are intact. We're gonna take a quick
break to face some bills. When we get back, we're
gonna set some tea for this week's category.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Is all right, y'all. So to kick off this week's
category is segment we are Talking with our friends and
sister about the documentary that has many of you chipping

(19:43):
and chatting this week. We are discussing yes, girl, the
Jesse Smolet documentary, but we are doing it love and
care because you realize that so much of the story
hasn't done just that, and we don't want to add
to the mess. Like I'll be transparent and saying like
I went back and forth with Jared with Tutis, and

(20:03):
I asked them questions, and I wanted to make sure
that we handled this conversation in a way that didn't
feel like it didn't feel salacious, that it felt really
like we're talking about it from a place of we
we love and care for black where people regardless of
what the narrative is being created around them. So to start, Jared,
I would love to ask you, I actually will tell

(20:25):
you this. So I I knew you were connected to Jesse,
but I was gooped when I said, I was like,
oh my, I was like, my god, my sister is
in this documentary. I'm like, yes, I've been to her house.
Like yeah. It was one of those moments of like
I noticed this, I noticed lady, and so I was

(20:47):
a little like I was actually excited when that's actually
what kept me in it because I'll be transparent, I
didn't want to watch it, and a lot of people saying,
oh it came out, it came out and came out,
and I was like, grin, I'm I'm over, Like I'm
past it. I don't want not to be to be dismissive,
but I was just going like, I don't want to
have to watch something where I'm watching someone literally fight
for their livelihood. So that's where that was what I

(21:08):
had going into it in my head. And then when
I found out that you were in and I was like, Okay,
I'm locked in, so I'm gonna go ahead and stay here.
And so I didn't want to ask you. I would
love to know, like why was it important for you
to be involved with the project And is there anything
you wish that you might have, anything that not gonna
say even you that you think that the project would

(21:28):
have done differently or maybe handled differently.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
So taking the first question, why was it important for
me to be involved? One, thank you for the love
and supporting the documentary because I was in it. I
appreciate that I found it important to be a part
of this documentary. Because after getting to talk with Jesse
and also starting to look at the evidence that Shelley Stanley,

(21:53):
one of the investigative journalists or the investigative journalists who
worked on this case, We're starting to look at it
more and more. I started to move from this place
of uncertainty about the case, because it's always been a
case where it's like I don't know what happened here,
but something about what they say it ain't right. It

(22:13):
moved from that place to being like, oh, I believe
Jesse right looking at the evidence, looking at so many
different facets of the evidence. And so I found it
important because I also thought like as they were developing
the documentary, I had reached out to Jesse and said, hey,
I'm really interested in in telling this story, like what
is the status with it and Shelley and Abigail, Abigail

(22:36):
car we're already working on a documentary. And he said, like,
I'm not doing something about this, but I know these
people are if you want to talk, okay. And so
when I came into the conversation, it was important for
me to be a part of it because there was
not a black person that was behind there. There was
a queer person that was there, and I thought that

(22:57):
piece of the cultural element of this story was incredibly
important to your second question, and is there anything I
would have differently? I would have done a lot differently, right,
because we pitched this documentary for quite a while, and
Abigail did a lot of that pitching, and it didn't
go anywhere. No one bought it, no one picked it up.
But Raw, the company that later came along and produced

(23:20):
the documentary. They came on board with this Netflix deal,
and that is how the documentary ended up being made
and coming to Netflix. However, we had to give up
any editorial or produce oial input, so we were only
voices in the documentary, and so I would have done
a lot of things differently. I would have let us
produce it in the editorial control or input. And also

(23:44):
I felt like one of the things that really frustrated
me with the director his name is Gagan, one of
his goals, as he said in the press for this
was to leave people unsure, and I felt like that
was ethically irresponsible exactly. I found that to be irresponsible
for me as a journalist. I know Shelley feels that

(24:05):
way as a journalist. I know Abigail feels that way,
but Gagin is not a journalist. Gagin is a filmmaker,
and so his goal, his mission was very different than
that of the mission that we had in making this
documentary initially, and so he wanted to make some good entertainment,
which he did. It's an entertaining film. It gives you
the roller coaster a doubt of I believe this, now

(24:27):
I believe this. Maybe I believe that. Maybe I believe this,
But as a journalist and as a person who has
seen the evidence, who feels strongly about this, I felt
like it was incredibly irresponsible to handle it in the
way that they did. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
See, And I'm so glad that you say that, because
I didn't. You know, again, that wasn't what I took
away from it. But now that you say that, and
now that I know that, I can go okay. That's
as I was watching, and I had, like I said,
I was left with more questions, and I'm going, aren't
documented really supposed to be? Like They're either supposed to

(25:03):
uncover something or supposed to help you understand the situation better.
And I didn't. I walked away, And I mean, we
don't need to get into the questions that I had,
because I feel like a lot of the questions are
the same questions we all have had since twenty was
it twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen when this happened. So you know,
I'm going I don't necessarily need to we don't need
to dig more into those questions. But I, like I said,

(25:24):
I do appreciate you saying that because I think folks
who either have seen this feel the same way, or
people who might be wanting to watch this may it's
good for them to know that. It is really good
for them to know that.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Agreed, because I because I too, like I mean, I well,
after the end of it, I immediately understood that the
point of the film itself was to leave more questions.
And I was like, show Mike and you're hearing it
from that as like great, because I'm like, yeah, like
it did his job in that way, but I did.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I did the question who does ask.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
She help in this case?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Because is you know, it's interesting because when it first happened,
the first happened like like I I was an empire,
Like I watched empire start to finish, like I as
message that message that show was I was, I will,
I will watch the end of it, like I watch
the show like I.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
Really I loved watching it.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
I love the characters obviously, I love I love the actors,
and like like when this first happened, like I was
really glued to my to my to my TV. When
when when when this whole when came out that attacked
and that and that then.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
Watching it unfolded as possible hoax was just really and
like to me, it was like it was like all
like to me, I always was left like this just
doesn't feel right at the day because even if even
if this was a hoax, like this is this is
just like but this is like too orchestrated to like
be real to me, especially given it's like a polar votech.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Polar vortex, like like like like you can't pay me.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
That, you can't pay me three three three three, you
can't my house and the ice coll like they just know.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
So I like questions about it, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
So I want to touch on that, and like this
isn't something that I think sways people's opinions in any direction,
but it's one of the major talking points that people
have and reasons that they don't believe. Jesse was like,
you're going the subway at two o'clock in the morning
in the middle of a polar vortext. Nobody would do that, right,
And even prosecutors and all the different folks will say that,
But like for me, I mean I probably would if

(27:26):
I was hungry and they'd just come off the fly. However,
I think it's important. And Abigail says this in an
interview we just did with Angela Cross on her podcast
where we really go through a lot of the evidence
and I encourage them to go check that out after
they finished listening. Here, I would say, if you will
watch the surveillance video, Jesse was not in there by himself.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Right, there were other people there.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I saw that way is open twenty four hours, and
there were three other customers in the store. And so
people's justification for not believing Jesse always begins with nobody
should go do that. Nobody was outside, and it's like,
but they were up customers in there, just he had
to wait a yeah, it's important.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, but that and like and like and people the
way the form of police and TenneT like honed in on,
like the bag, like the subway bag the subody bag
was in pristine condition, or like the fact that he
got beat and brought it. If my ass got beat,
I'm I'm I'm actual hungry now I'm taking my bag
would be.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
So there. I want to take that with me.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Girl.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
It's like I.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Need to eat well. And again, I think that's such
an important Like when you listen to the documentary, I
was frustrated with superintendent, former Superintendent Eddie Johnson's depiction of
that because, as you said, he he refers to the
subway back as having been pristine, And I'm like, first
of all, this was on security cam footage. You weren't

(28:49):
even really able to look at the bag that closely.
Right in the story, as as Jesse tells it, Jesse
was on the phone and walking back to his home
when the attack happens. Right, So he's carrying his phone
and he's carrying the bag, and like he drops both
of them. And so after the attack happens, I guess
he was supposed to pick up his phone, but not

(29:10):
the bag, Like, what is that? What is the logic
behind that? Right, it's a great like point for.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Salwich is a subway of fifteen dollars not to cut out.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's that's so long. Ain't five dollars no more? Right,
I'm not about thirty five dollars sandwich, right.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Like yeah, no, I'm younger for sure.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
So I have been let me tell you, I'm I
know you have another question about. I have been in
car accidents and I have had food. Like I kid you,
on my very first car accident, I was just coming
I forget where I was coming back from, but I
remember having food and I remember getting in the car
accident and the officer being like, is there anything you
want to grab from the car, And you know what,
I grabbed the food that I had just ordered because

(29:50):
thank you that period, I just like, I just I.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Don't have the don't have the desire to argue someone's
from a response like that's w yeah, it's not my
business what you grow up so like yeah, and so
it's all just say like, yes, it is job in
terms of make you have more questions about. But I
was trustrating because because I was like, doesn't really help
anybody like by the end of this, right, And and
it's sad because part of me honestly, like like honestly

(30:15):
like for like like forgot about it and so part
of me does feel like, does this help them or
does this like reignite people's Like I had no need
of his tryal was in twenty twenty one that I
was like, oh, like I was deep in the deep
in the pandemic.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
I was not thinking on anything right right on my
own home, my own city.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
And so I you know, I do wonder about I
wanted to ask, like, you know, regardless of your views
are on the core, the core of the story, how
do you think the documentary explores our relationship with the
police and the criminal justice system, especially the city like
Chicago as so focal point.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I love this question because I think one of the
things that gets lost in this conversation a lot about
the Just Smallette story in general. What did I miss?

Speaker 1 (30:57):
So I produced this segment, and so when you said
you loved this question, I was like, Okay, but yeah, go.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
On, journalists. There's nothing I love more for my subject
to be like, oh, such a great question.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
I'm like, yeah, no, literally, I'm like, I go ahead.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
But I think that what often gets lost in this
conversation is the proximity or the timeline of what was
happening with Jesse's story. So Essee torrey happens on January
twenty ninth, twenty nineteen, right eleven days before this happened,
the Lakwa McDonald case comes to a close with one
of the officers being sentenced to five and a half

(31:35):
years in prison I believe it was, and the other
officers being acquitted. This was eleven days before. And if
you remember the Laqua McDonald case, that case exposed for
us the Chicago Police department's level of corruption with doing
all kinds of untoured things in that case over the
course of four or five years of trial, right, and
so the Chicago Police department was coming under consent decree

(31:57):
where the federal government was like, y'all roll some bullshit,
and we're gonna come in here and start paying attention
to what y'all are doing. Yeah, And so those things
often get left out of the conversation when we're thinking
about the Chicago Police Department then two weeks later being
the source of all of this information that's coming out
into the public about what they believe happened in the
just Small case. And so when I think about the

(32:18):
ways in which we feel about the police, black folks
have this really interesting relationship with the police, where it
can be very fuck the police, a cab and all
that on one side. But then when the police come
out and say something happened, oftentimes to a black queer person,
right or to a woman or someone else, then we're
inclined to believe what they have to say. Can I right?

(32:40):
Because there was so much well talk about Angelica pointed
this out and made that correlation, which was with Lil
nas X. Everyone's like, Oh, he's high out of his mind.
This is just what he gets for being so out
of control. And then like days later, when we find
out that there were no drugs in his system, right,
there's not as many mets as about that piece of it, right, Like, actually,

(33:03):
that's not what happened and we got it wrong. That's
been a similar case here right with the just Small
att case. I've been really fascinated to see the ways
in which major media that covered this in the ways
that they did back in twenty nineteen and through the trial.
They haven't been as loud about the fact that the
Supreme Court came back and overturned that case. Conda haven't

(33:23):
been quite as noisy about the new information that came
out in this documentary ever since, because, as I love
to point out, this is not the first Esse Smullett documentary.
It's not even the second Just Smullett documentary. Right. CNN
died an hour long piece on this, and Fox Nation
did a multi episode piece about this, but neither one
there was a podcast, and there's a podcast Polity that

(33:46):
was really fantastic that really helped me to see this
in a different kind of way and connect with Shelley
and the others. And so for me, it's been interesting
to see the ways in which those documentaries never talk
to any of the witnesses who were in this case. Right.
They never go through any of the evidence that wasn't
a part of the public narrative about this case. They

(34:07):
never talked to Jesse because Jussy wasn't interested in talking.
But they all seem they all approached this as if
they are definitive. Right. But in this documentary, we at
least get to see other pieces of evidence that were
in court and that were not a part of public narrative.
And for the first time here Jesse's story. Right. We
had a Robin Roberts interview where he spoke about what
happened briefly, but like not at length and with you know,

(34:29):
more questions and different things like that. So it's frustrating
to me to see the ways in which people automatically
believe the Chicago Police Department right after saying fuck them,
right right after saying like, oh, they're on some bullshit.
And we know that there's one hundred years of corruption
in this police department, which Eddie Johnson even says.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
In the documentary.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
So I have really really frustrating feelings around the ways
in which we addressed the police piece of this.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, and it's you know, so this is the thing
that I've I've been struggling a lot with, not even
just with this case, but I just think in general,
you know, I think a lot of folks are just
not They're not they're not out a place to understanding
that a lot of these systems are not for us.
And that's the thing that's immediately even even in all
of this, I just that was the thing I always

(35:17):
kind of kept at the forefront. I said, these systems,
and I say these systems meaning police, all of that,
they don't they're not here for us, and they're not
here to protect us. They've never been here to protect us.
And so that for me is what has helped me
be able to kind of keep this idea of like
I'm gonna trust And I even tweeted this and it
was or not tweeted. I posted this on threads. I said,

(35:38):
I don't care what nobody says. I'm gonna go ahead
and just believe just the off, just just off principle,
because I don't trust police, right, Like that's literally where
my where, where my heart comes into it, because I've
never trusted the police, and I'm seeing not even just
what's happening in Chicago, but seeing what's happened in LA,
knowing people that I know, and the things that have
happened in different states, even seeing you know, I've had

(36:00):
friends talk about stuff going on with Portland PD and
how they've you know, harmed black people, blackquear people, you know,
in Portland. I just I just can't get behind the
idea of believing a police officer before I believe another
blackquaar person. I'm sorry, I just can't. Yeah. But anyway,
all that to be said, regardless of how we all
might feel in regards to this case, one of the

(36:21):
questions that I had or one of the things I
was thinking about was, you know. Smilett noted on several
occasions that he felt emasculated by the public's reaction. I
would love to know, from your standpoint, as both a
friends to Jesse and also just you know, think, just
knowing what we know about ourselves as square people, how
has the stock deepened the conversation around emotions and how

(36:43):
does it deepens or complicate the understanding of false accusations
when it comes to LGBTQ people.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, I think about this a lot now. Every time
I'm hearing a story about a celebrity did this, or
even not just celebrities, but like when we see like
media narratives about a story, it makes me a lot
more skeptical right about what I believe. And also not

(37:12):
just because I'm always thinking like the person is always
telling the truth, but because I know that there's a
vested interest in getting clicks. There's a vested interest in
getting people to stay on your cable news channel or
to tune into your show, or to do whatever, And
so it makes me much more curious to hear what
the person has to say about what happened to them,
Because if we look at the feedback to this seminary.

(37:34):
One of the most consistent things that I've seen is
I don't know Jesse's telling the truth, but I don't
believe in brothers, right, and like people are able to
listen to a person's story and decide for themselves what
they think or believe or are questioning about it. And
when I think about false accusations, people often say like, oh, well,
because of this case, then no one's ever gonna believe

(37:56):
victims again, or and we hear that every time there's
some kind of story where a person is accused of
of making a false accusation. But I'm like, y'all wasn't
believing people in the first place, right, You didn't believe women,
you didn't believe queer people, you don't believe trans people.
So this case didn't hit right. You didn't believe them
when they first told you what happened to them, So

(38:18):
what are we talking about? Right? And so the idea
that this case or anybody's case, we think about this
with Cassie with Ditty and like the people who are
coming out and making accusations against against Diddy and people
believing those people or not right with r Kelly cases
and those are like enormous cases and just the case,

(38:40):
to be clear, is nowhere near that right of what
he's accused of. And I think about the ways in
which we talk about victims in our culture, and like
we we have such a hard time believing victims, especially
when they are women or people that are a part
of any other marginalized group.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Mmmm.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
You know I I I touched upon a point in
your question John about like the like feeling a masculated
because that's something that that I was I found very interesting.
I just one because like I like that that just
like was not not a thought that will come to
mind in this entire situation. And I and like, and
there are several points about like the right way to

(39:25):
be a man in the like, both from Jesse and
from the Brothers, and that I just felt like that
that's just really interesting to me because it's also madly
think of like like like so many conversations like around
black man in danger don like manhood in that way.
And that's not that I don't always like because I

(39:48):
think like I think bestn Ash has like my thing
I think likest like a lot to do with like
how violence can happen, right, But like Tolly devoided that
because he was attacked and beat up at then like
cared for was I thought, was like was interesting. I
mean not that that's the reason why he was mastilate,
but like that just this that's just really that was
just like really interesting to me that I like, I'm

(40:10):
still like if it's anything that I was like not
feeling the best about in watching this, it was like
just that that like that thread one thing I think,
I think I keep questioning during the film in this case,
so to your point and like and the retelling of
of of what happened is to your point, it frames
how we think about the consequences for queer and trans
folks and black folks communities facing hate crimes, like whether

(40:33):
believable or not.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
And I personally like I feel some type.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Of way the way about the way non queer folks
or non block reporters would like that they would but
they would say how this case made queer folks escape
got right, or it would or.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
Would make black queer folks not be able to balance
against and.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Like and like like not because I don't like I
don't agree with them, like I I I do agree
like in the case if like if someone is caught
not like not share the truth. I do believe, Yes,
it does contribute to us not being believed more. But
part of me is like, but y'all are the cause
of that, like like non black reporter, like you're also

(41:15):
the call like you you you're porptualing the symptom itself,
Like you're saying, how how this moment makes it makes
us not be believed more, But like you're part of that,
You're you contribute to that, but to that as well too.
So I just wish the report before we had checked
themselves on that. Like, yes, at end of the day,
you are correct if this this and this this is

(41:37):
not true. It does contribute to us being believed less.
But you don't have a You don't how you don't
have a stake and how we're believed or not. So
like we're doing your job in trying to make sure
that things are truthful or or represent actually because you
also do to your your point, Jarrett, like don't believe
any don't believes anyways, you already under report or misreport

(41:58):
in the first.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
That's just one thing I feel. But do not ask
or Jared, sorry, I saw you have like a.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Well I think this piece about emasculation, just really quickly.
I think, like oftentimes I feel like people never ask
a second question. Right. As a journalist, I'm always like
thinking about.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
The follow the follow up question.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, yeah, And like I think one of the follow
up questions here would be like, for this person who
is an out queer person, who is already catching plenty
of hell for being an out queer person, why would
this be the thing that they would fake on themselves, right,
the thing where two men come up and beat their ass. Right,
But we're thinking about a person who's in a culture

(42:43):
that is always trying to get the acceptance of straight men,
of trying to prove masculinity or trying to be a man,
for a person like a Jessee Smollett who is a
queer man, right, And the idea that like I'm going
to have two men beat my ass and and that
that that always was like a weird kind of thing
because it is the masculating right, It's not something that

(43:06):
that that would be like the first thing that will
come to mind of like how a person would would
set up a hope on themselves if I think about
that often as well. But I know you had another question.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah, well when also the point like like like they
were also trying to like link it, like link it
to his drug usage, and.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
I'm like, girl, I've been high a lot of times.
I'm not even high.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
I'm not thinking of a whole hoax get myself beat out.
I was like that was like it's a very poor
threat that they try to pick up, and I'm like no, JK.
So I do want to ask, also, how does this
case or can't create space for us to reflect broader
on the cultural debate, especially right now about truth, media

(43:50):
and justice and like contemporary America.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
I think a lot about our need for One of
my the things that I hate the most is when
people are like, we need to have a conversation about
I'm like bit people having a conversation about everything everywhere.
But I think that we are in a moment where
media literacy is at an all time low and people
are not paying attention to like where they're getting their

(44:16):
information and what that information is, or asking a follow
up question or doing any research on what they're reading.
And that is the thing that comes to mind for
me right when people are reading information online, like are
you even looking at what the website is are you
looking at who the reporter is? Are you paying any
attention to the nuance and the language that they're using?
Because I know for myself, and I'm a journalism professor,

(44:39):
so I get it. I look at this in a
different kind of way. But I'm always wondering, like, as
I'm reading an article, I'm thinking to myself, like, oh,
do we recognize like the ways in which they're characterizing
this story and the ways in which that shapes the
way the person listens to the story or reads the
story and understands the information. And I think that's a
really really important piece because I don't think that we

(45:02):
have enough media literacy happening, because everybody's got a platform,
and people believe media when they read it, whether it's
on Twitter or threads or Instagram or TikTok or YouTube
or whatever it is. If you hear a person say something,
people immediately are inclined to like take it as law,
especially if it's from a person that they recognize or
think that is credible. And so I think a lot

(45:24):
about media literacy.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
In this way. Yeah, it's the fact all time, little baby,
It's in hell. But I also want folks who are
listening to this, right, and I think, you know, oh,
you know, this is not the time to be a
conspiracy therapy baby, Yes it is. This is the time
for us to be thinking deeper about the stuff that

(45:47):
we see and that we hear. And like you said that,
the concept of media literacy being at all time low,
people know that folks are going to trust the media
before they trust an educator, a journalist, or somebody who
has quote unquote done the research. Right. And so if
we can get media to live in the depths of hell,
and we can get media to keep people dumb, it's

(46:07):
easier for us to to basically win over a nation
of people, you know, And so I really wish go ahead.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I get frustrated with how quickly we can call anything
a conspiracy theory, right, And I want to be clear,
there are plenty of crazy ass conspiracy theories out there
that you're like, no, girl, what and a piece of right,
But I also want to acknowledge, like if we just
look at the case that Donald Trump was brought up

(46:39):
on in Georgia, right, which was a rico case with
him working with a bunch of other people to try
and steal the election, what is the definition of a
conspiracy people working together right in an untoured way to
accomplish an unlawful goal. Now that would be I don't
know a conspiracy, right. We have the idea that a

(47:03):
conspiracy is something that is crazy and wild and unbelievable
and all these other things, and it's like, no conspiracies
actually happen all the time. If you think about Project
twenty twenty five, conspiracy people conspiring to work together on
this project conspiring is not something that is not happening
or that is wild or crazy or what have you.

(47:24):
And so when people dismiss everything as a conspiracy theory,
I'm always like, yeah, but like, there's also a lot
of evidence that supports what this person is talking about,
when there's going to great amount of research that shows
what they're talking about is genuine or is at least
worthy of question. And so I get frustrated with the
ways in which using the phrase or termed conspiracy theory

(47:46):
immediately dismisses someone's point of view.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, and I was just going to say, like I.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
John, you're making a point about how people believe media
first before anything. And that's been the I found the
most interesting because like We're at a time where people
are constantly critiquing media, and I think a lot of
the New York Times, and in this instance because like
people have shot on the New York Times when it
comes to reporting that they don't agree with, but the
second they agree with the reporting, it's like like it's

(48:16):
the very first media that they will then refer to
as truth and like. And that's like my biggest critique
about how people struggle with being media literate because like
you like, like you can't slam a publication because the
reports with that you don't like, but then but then
use it for everything everything that everything that you do,

(48:38):
Like I'm not and I'm not trying to defend any application,
like I think many publications have had a lot of
like like like, especially especially especially when's comp especially it's
completely reporting the reporting.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
About past time.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
But like, like, there are there are many there are
many things that I think could be critiqued and like
and like may have not been good or like like
or could be better, like you can't like I I
I get frustrated when people will then like slam a
publication for that and then the next day be like
and the next day post exact exact same complications.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I've seen people do that too, like yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
New story, like you like you like, and like you
have to understand how reporting also actually works, like like
like that's how we're like the system reporting is built on,
not built the way you think it's actually built and
which people understood that so much more because that makes
me so so frustrated because and I think a lot
about I went on this group trip years ago and

(49:33):
this girl, this girl was like media does not move
culture whatsoever and I and I was like, you're you're
fucking way if you think that media is one of
the like why the movers of culture, Like it's the
first thing people sae when they wake up and often
the last thing that they see when they go go bad.
Like media and any in any form is exactly what

(49:54):
helped shape and move culture and so like, and so
you have to be vigilant and you sus sermon and
really really like clear tactile ways and understanding how media
actually works and also understand what truth actually looks like
in media, like you how to get so that That's
why like any gyl must that he has been training
is going to say, you have to look at multiple
news sources, not just one it's just even they talk

(50:14):
to and make sure it's not just one person. Like
there is clear worit of training that people do not
understand that you need to get to like to really
understand what joans really is and just wish people like
sorry like Grant just like it's it's it's it's it's
like it's sad, it's sad, Like it's sad when you're
trained in that and people and like the thing that
you see one post, that bad post comes wildfire and

(50:37):
nothing else, well then we'll like, well then dispel that
for anybody, and you just to sit there and be
like that's actually not literal like literacy, but like right,
like go off, go off.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yea. Myself, I'm very much with you here. I think
that oftentimes I'm a defender of the media right, like
as DJ people talk talking about. I was president of
National Association of Black Journalists in Los Angeles and been
a member of NABJ for a long time and often
find or found myself defending the media right and more
specifically journalists and journalism. But I also as I've been

(51:14):
like I've been away in grad school for the last
year and a half and like off on break and
trying to figure out, you know, the things I'm going
to be doing next, and kind of wrestling with like oh.
But also the media is a big part of the problem, right, yes,
yes to the conversation, especially corporate media, right. And I
think that you made reference to Gaza, right, and like

(51:37):
the ways in which we see American media talking about
Israel and Gaza and the way we see world news
talking about Israel and Gaza are very right. And America
has invested interest in talking about Israel Gaza in one
kind of way and maintaining a certain narrative, right, corporate
media and billionaires. I think about this specifically when we

(51:59):
were looking at the twenty six, twenty four election, when
certain newspapers the New York Times, LA Times, in Washington
Post would not endorse Kamala Harris, even at the advising
of their editorial boards, right because these papers run by billionaires. Right,
The New York Times is different a little bit, but still,
but like we see those endorsements not happen because there's

(52:24):
a vested interest in a certain narrative and the idea
of what journalism is supposed to be. The way journalism
is supposed to work is showing up differently. And so
we have to also recognize that the CNN and MSNBC
and the Fox News and all of them, they're all
corporate media and their mission is making money.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I remember being in school and one of my media
teachers asking us, like, what is the purpose of television?
And if you think about it, if you don't think
about it long enough, you'll be like, oh, storytelling and
television shows and blah blah blah blah blah. No no, no, no, no, honey.
A purpose of television is to make money, to sell
ad space, and we can put in between advertisements, we

(53:06):
will do and if it's sports, if it's a sitcom,
if it's a documentary, if it's a film, if it's whatever,
if we can sell these ads, that is what we're
here for. And I think with cable news, one of
the things that I remember being at CNN, and CNN
has always been running studies on their viewers, and back
when I was there, which was you know, two thousand

(53:28):
and nine, it's been a while, but like they had
data that always that showed that more than fifty percent
of their viewers at that time, again, this was two
thousand and nine ish, more than fifty percent of their
viewers always had a second screen present, which was a
phone or a laptop or an iPad, And if they
had split screens on the screen, people tended to watch longer.

(53:48):
So if you watch CNN, they tend to have split
screens up more than any of the other networks. But
they also know that they can kick people to the phone,
they can kick people to iPad. This is all to
make money, right, And so when we're trusting corporate media,
we have to be discerning, as you said, Joho, we
have to be discerning and paying extra attention to like
what we're what is being said, how it's being framed,

(54:10):
and maybe follow up somewhere else that we're being given.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, I've always said the number one thing that I
wish people did more was question the source of the
media that they that they take in. And I you know,
people especially and again, you know when it's like when
I don't I don't want to say I spent too
much time with conservatives, but when I have people around
me who are invested in conservative news or you know,

(54:37):
all I watch is Fox News, I'm going, well, what
are you doing to diversify that, Like, what are you
doing to question that information that you're taking in? And
when someone tells me, oh, I only watch CNN, I'm
going we'll grow. Why Like, why are you, like even
even for liberals, right, if you're a liberal person, why
are you only watching one news source? Yeah, if there's
defying your new source, and so I and again, I
know they teach that in journalism, you know. And I don't,

(54:59):
like I said, I don't purport myself to be a journalist,
but I do have a common degree. I took a
lot of journalists courses, you know, because of being a
PR major. And so with that being said, it is
important for folks to to you know, I think even
watching this doc you know, kind of to bring this
back with the bow before we take it to break.
I think it is very important for folks, you know,

(55:19):
I would say, don't just watch this one doc and
make a decision about how you feel about this or anything.
Listen to the podcast, watch the other documentaries, try to
find old articles help you know, go back to the
article I wrote in twenty nineteen, follow the stuff Jared did. Like,
there was a lot of stuff that was being talked
about in this, And like I said, I think the
one thing that I do appreciate is, you know, I

(55:41):
forget the name of the person who was going who
basically was fighting to get that ten seconds in that clip,
because they were saying, hey, that ten seconds is missing.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
We need.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Like I appreciate other thank you. I love naming names
around here. I think it is imperative for us to
keep you know, I think the point of us talking
about this is not only just the question media, but
if there's something you believe to be true, if there's
something that you believe is false, fight for it. Continue
to keep making a point about whatever it is that

(56:13):
you're wanting to make a point for, because there's gonna
be a legion of people who may need that. And
like I said, I think the thing for me that
I took from this that I really appreciated was that
the director would not let their foot off of the
Chicago p d's neck. It wasn't even about Jesse at
one point for me, it was there's some corrupt ask
people over there, and we need to be paying attention

(56:33):
to that. And so I think that's the thing for
me that I take in all of this is that
we need to constantly keep questioning all of the stuff
that we're taking in and more than anything, just believe
queer black people when they talk to you about their experiences.
We ain't out here lying for clicks, honey. A lot
of the stuff that's happening to us is really happening

(56:54):
to us. And honestly, we wouldn't have a podcast if
it wasn't. You wouldn't even have a show if it
was as rosy as y'all believe it to be. But anyway,
with that being said, now that I have to take
my gum shoe coat down to the cleanest and find
more fingerprint powder, we're gonna take a break and when
we come back, we're gonna come. We're gonna hit you

(57:14):
with our what's What's popping segment more than a second.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
All right, fam, we are back, and we are b
black ass always, and we cannot have you back, Jarrett,
some of our writers of historically black phrases. And now
that you're to talk about blackness and black ass shit,
so let's if we're talking about we're talking about some
black culture, particularly black subcultures, in non conventional way, and
that's okay with y'all.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
I asked that, well, that's okay with you anyways because you're.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Here, so yes, what's something that you believe that black
folks love that you think no, none of people talk about, right,
Like what's a really dope subculture of blackness that you
feel for me? With me and passage and my John
for me is black folks and anime like I grew
up as like such such I'm such a.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Is that funny?

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Is that I have not gonna share your story and
they will, but like I am.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
A blurred out heart right and the black black ame
is like a sub community of like black like of
like black no culture and like and I think like
it's it's beyond the big ones like another tour bleach
or one piece like lately. The anime often has super compelling,
story driven shows that's to be fun, engaging, gory, messy

(58:35):
fest of life like really dopes up and I know
like growing up like my dad, my dad, my dad
was if you on me watching us, he would say
cartoons like.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Black like like like like like what like that?

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Like I was like like when I when I beg
to stay up.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
To watch Tami Cutt Netberk, which is the anime like
and when I was growing up and my dad was
always like, you do you see a late and like
like watch those damn cartoons. I was like, they're not cartoons,
like and I made. It's often about world building and
constrtion and like storyline, right, it's about character development, like
and I feel like that to me, Like it feels
like like actually, let not let me not say like

(59:15):
people I want to say about I do not think
people long cooking, so it's fine, but like people like
it right, like like the same way that there is
a like black and culture of sci fi I think
I think works a lot in that way, Like it
is about constructing a different reality and strutting a new
world in which like in which like you have like
like really moving experience, really moving stories, and I and

(59:38):
I like love and like and I think we have
like growing up, I was often like I know I
was willing for it. People are like you like you
like like like you little freak, you want to like watch.

Speaker 4 (59:48):
Not like.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Which which which I will say, like I think black
fooks have actually long have long had a connection like
a connection to like Japanese culture in some ways.

Speaker 4 (59:59):
And and yeah, like I just feel like to me,
like black folk's nimes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Really it's really amazing like black like black subculture that
I really want to experience when I when I would
go to like in conventions and see black folks stressed
up in their fair characters, video games and comics and
shows like, that's the ship I loved and lived for,
you know, shut shout out to shows like to shows
like Black.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
People Love Pair More and Our Girl and Our Girl Sequoia.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Like who show like like explores the idea about black subcultures.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So that's the ship I love. Jared, how about you
or John?

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
I had a point, I'm gonna care this real quick
point in the story. So I was gonna say, when
you said that black people love Japanese culture, I just
thought about Sierra being like me son, and I was like, yes,
I've been with and yeah has been on it forever.
That was literally, I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Mean fine, yea, you know and like you and like
that point right like like like like Nicki Minajen she
was when she would do like harjagubarbi right like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yes, please you know really that yes, you got smuck,
you got smuckun swant yes, Dicky was it that case?
He's I'm all right, I got you. Yes, yes, even

(01:01:29):
though it's problematic as fun and we know that was problematic,
but yes, a different time, but yeah, how about you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
I I hate to like reflect back on something I
was saying earlier, but like I think about whenever I
hear black folks don't do something, black folks don't like that,
black folks don't do that, black folks don't go there,
black folks don't eat that. I'm always like realist this
in a similar way as I feel like we've heard

(01:02:01):
so many of our trans siblings saying to us, we've
always been here. Yeah, we are not new, and like
our queer siblings say the same things, right, like we
have always been here, And like trey Velle Anderson, who
is co author of Black Phrases, We've talked about this
many many times. But like the idea of us just

(01:02:23):
showing up on the scene, like Laverne Cox was not
the first trans person in America, right, and like the
idea that these things are new is always really frustrating
to me. And I think about that with blackness as well.
As I'm traveling around Europe and seeing black folks in
the different places that I'm going, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, baby,
black folks are everywhere. We may not be in high

(01:02:44):
concentrations everywhere, but blackness has been everywhere, right, Yeah, And
in that same way like blackness does everything, Blackness has
been everywhere, and blackness can be or do anything right.
And so whenever I hear someone saying, oh, black folks
don't where black folks wouldn't or black folks haven't, I'm like,

(01:03:04):
what is that based on? Right? Where you get in
that information? And so that's what comes to mind as
I'm thinking about was Yeah, but you know, black folks
embrace that that is maybe not expected in culture.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yeah. I love that you say that, because we we
aren't a lot of different spaces, like I was even
you mentioning that. So I have two thoughts. I want
to throw it back to your your point, because I
do I really want to share the story. But I
was also going to say, I think about the whole
conversation about black people being and so I don't know
if you saw, but like Scottish black Scottish people on TikTok,

(01:03:37):
that's like a whole thing currently people being like, oh,
I didn't know black people lived in Scotland, and I'm like, yeah,
of course black people are in Scotland, just because you
don't see them or we're not talking about it out right,
like I mean, for me, it's always like a of course,
like we're everywhere, and regardless of if people are not
talking about it or not, we are a part of
and a lot of times people just wish that they
could be us, even in these spaces, and that's why

(01:03:59):
there's so much tension and issues, because we just make
shit cooler. But I was gonna say, so, Chris, You're
gonna have to bleep this. I had a roommate name
back in college that nigga was the most anime nigga.
He would wake up at six a am doing what

(01:04:19):
was that dance Dance Revolution, listening to fucking anime music,
and he he was a black anime character, and people
made fun of him. If you know me, you already
know where what I'm talking to. You know who I'm
talking about if you know me, But that nigga made
my life hell for a year. Even his mama, his

(01:04:43):
mama would come to the house too, and his mama
was a black anime character. It was just there was
a lot of happening around that person. But yes, that
Nigga was an anime character through and through and he
made my life a living hell for the year that
I lived with him. But you know, we can't clarified.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
The life wasn't hell because he loved anime.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
I was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
He was a terrible given give me bad rap. He
was just a terrible person. It was time and place
like Nigga, I don't need you listening to anime music
at six am in the morning when I'm like, like,
who does that? But yeah, yeah, and his and it
would be so loud, and I'm like, girl, if you don't, Yeah,

(01:05:26):
that was a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
There's here's the thing though, speaking of like things that
people say are or are not black, Like we used
to say this about country music right like in the country,
and I think Beyonce and many other people have dispelled
that and have been working on that in the last
few years. But like, I don't want to hear Cowboy
Carter at six o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
So that part whatever part okay? Wait, now wait a minute,
sis you to turn that on at ten ten in
the house? I don't anything.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Birls who are mourning people and I'm just one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
And I mean, I am a morning person and I
still don't want to hear Giselle at six am, Like
I love her down, but please make sure you only
cut that on around and seven o'clock when I'm trying
to get to that. That's a fight. I'm ready to fight,
and somebody wakes me up at six am with some bullshit.
But anyway, I was gonna say for me, one of
my favorite subcultures right now, I love so and a

(01:06:32):
lot of my TikTok and Instagram is this so I
if you open up my TikTok er you open up
my Instagram, it's nothing but cats. I just love cats.
Everybody knows Lily. I have a kiddy. She is twelve.
That is my heart. Lily is my heart. I love Lily.
I literally would go to the ends of the earth
for my cat. But I love that there is this
subculture of black people talking about what it's like to

(01:06:53):
be a cat owner or to be an animal owner
in general. And even my mom, my mom for years
will be like, I don't love animals. I don't like animals.
My mom every time I call her, every time I
get Edwina on the phone, one of her favorite questions
is how is my baby? And that's because my mom,
as much as she tries to act like she doesn't
care for animals and she doesn't care for cats, she'd

(01:07:14):
be worried about Lily, and she'd be worried about making
sure Lily is doing okay and has everything that she needs.
But I just I just love that niggas love cats,
and I love the videos I see on my feeds
about black people rescuing cats naming their animals black ass names.
I saw video a couple of weeks ago this black
man had two cats, and I think one of the
cats was the name I could remember was Cat Tavious,

(01:07:36):
and he told the lady what the what the name Cat?
What she did, is that his real name? He canna
get us my cat's name. I just I think there's
a man on TikTok who takes care two squirrels. I
don't know if you've seen those videos. There was one
video recently where one of the squirrels went away and
he was worried that something had happened to it, and
the squirrel came back and it was just he and

(01:07:57):
you could tell the squirrels knew him and that he
knew the squirrel. And it's just a beaut It's just
a really beautiful thing. I don't know. I feel like
just the way black people take care of black animals
even look the whole my animal is black, Like, my
animal knows not to do black stuff. Like I'll look
at Lily. Lily will sometimes look I can see it
in her face that she's getting ready to jump on
the counter in the kitchen, and I'll look at her

(01:08:19):
and I'll go, if you I wish you would. And
it's literally such a black thing to tell an animal,
I wish you would. And you could just see it
in her face. Does she know better?

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Right? Like you?

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Just just like I love black people talking to the
animals like children, Like it's just such a beautiful thing.
I just love. Uh shout out to the black lady
who went viral who dances with her cat. She has
two cats that runs around with her and she waves
wands and stuff, and it's just it's such a cute
thing to me. I love black people and animals. It's
just it's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
So if you are of a particular if you're of
a particular age, this wishing culture that you're talking about
entertainer reference from Yes, the original comedy I wish you would.
I just want to shout out to the elder millennials
and those that go up go up above.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Uh huh, it's such a millennial thing. That is such
a millennial thing, like im not not. And my favorite
thing to yell at Lily is I know you know better.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
I know you don't. I know, I act like you
have some home training.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
I say, don embarrass me in front, in front, in
front of our guests, like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
The way I will yell I know you know better
to Lily, and she'll just look at me and you
already know you are. Just because half of you is
white does not mean you get the chance to act
the fool in here. You know better, you know better.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I love that the pets have the genetic makeup of
their parents. Like because Lily is half white, that's that's
hysterical to me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yeah, okay, well he is a biracial.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
We always, as I always call for Nanda we cats,
a biracial cat. Because you're black and white too. I'm like,
I'm like, this isn't this this little mixedba You're doing?
Crazy assh Yeah, stop stop girls, She gets wanted.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
She's so funny. I love for us, I love you,
I live ohky maam.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Well let me have you thinking about what's the culture
you would like to join and be a part of.
We gotta take one more break. We will be back
with the y'all stair sentment in just a bit, all right, ch'ell.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
So we are going to wrap up the show like
we always do, and in this segment of our guests,
ma'am and our no man PAMs. This is where we
either give people flowers or we throw them at them.
And so this week I would love for my guests, ma'am,
I wanted to shout out you know, I know a
lot of people have said and so the thing to
know about me, and I'm going to keep putting this

(01:10:49):
out here until the universe responds. I would love to
work on a documentary or be a part of a documentary.
And so when I was watching these documentaries, I was like,
oh my god, I would have loved to have had
my hands in the mid some kind of way. And
so with that being said, I definitely wanted to shout
out both sets of the New Orleans Katrina documentary. So

(01:11:09):
there was the Hulu documentary, and then there was also
the Netflix documentary and I if you want to know personally,
DM me and I will tell you which one I
thought was better. I don't want to say that on
the air, but what I will say is that I
believe that all of it, all of the documentaries did
such a beautiful job in really telling the story of

(01:11:31):
what truly happened during that time and really set us
up to understand what we're going through now. And as
much as people probably didn't take that away as they
were watching it, I'm I'm I was watching it with
the eye of oh, that's how we got here in
terms of media and the ways that we talk about
covering things in the media. So that was just my
takeaway for that. So if you haven't had a chance,

(01:11:53):
go watch the Hulu dot, go watch the Netflix one.
Make your own decision about which one that you really
truly love. But what I will tell you is that
both of them are great story like they're great stories
to listen to, and it's a great way to show storytelling.
I also wanted to shout out I think it's important
also note the folks that were missed in Mississippi in
parts of Texas that were looked over. I think it's

(01:12:14):
imperative for us to give them love as well, because
I'm sure that they went through a lot of shit
too with Katrina and no one, no one ever really
talked about it, and that was one of the things
that I definitely wanted to highlight. So I just wanted
to say, just shout out too, great documentary work, anyone
who's putting in the effort to tell a story, and
for all of us, we are all storytellers, and whatever

(01:12:35):
fast that we want to we want to talk about it.
It's a hard job and it's sometimes really hard to
figure out what do you want to say, how do
you want to say it, What story is important enough
to make it to you know, the cutting room floor,
all of these different things, and so all that to
be said, I just I don't know. I was just
very I was left one of them. I want to
keep it oblivious or what is it not oblivious? But

(01:12:58):
I want to keep it andous, thank you. I want
to keep it ambiguous because I don't want folks feeling
like I picked one over the other. There was one
scene in one in particular doc where I was balling
and it just for me was like, this is good,
this is a good this is what good storytelling looks like.
When even for me, as somebody who's very critical of storytelling,

(01:13:20):
is bawling, I'm like, I was here for it. So anyway,
such such great documentaries and if you haven't had a
chance to watch it, please go do that. My no man, Pam,
So this is silly, but at the same time, it's
life for me in this current moment, and so it's
my reality. Fuck anybody who's price gouging on La Boo boos.
I just want to go ahead and say that because

(01:13:42):
some of y'all price gouging on fake ones, and like,
there's a special place in hell for you for raising
the price of a La Boo boo to two hundred,
three hundred, four hundred, five hundred dollars and knowing that
it's not real. There's a special place in hell for you,
especially because we are all broke, and as much as

(01:14:02):
people like to make you believe that some of us
with these podcasts and you see us on documentaries and
you see us floating around the country that we got money.
Nobody has money. Nobody has money.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
What I'm hearing is, though, is buying a la Boobo's
a choice. I just want to point out.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
But but when you buy a la boo boo for
thirty dollars and you're selling it for five hundred dollars, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:14:31):
But a la booboo also should be cost sufficient.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
And I'm with you when you're right right, So what
I'm saying is you know that this La buo boo
is not even real. It's a ten dollars lttle boo boo, thanks,
not a lafufu, and you're selling it for five hundred dollars.
That's that there's a special place in hell for people
who are buying and selling fake la boo boos at
exorbitly like expensive prices. I just I needed to go

(01:14:56):
on record and say that. However, if you want to
send me a real little boo boo, DM me and
I'll send you my address. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
I I just want to know. After coming out of
Divinity School over the last year, I always love when
there's a special place of Hell for anything. I'm always like,
what is the hell behind the velvet rope giving I'm like, like,
the real bad girls are going there, and I'm like, oh,

(01:15:25):
they must be doing some next level.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Ship, nasty work girl.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
You know what, Like, is there bottle service there?

Speaker 4 (01:15:33):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
What is the special place in Hell? Giving?

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
I just want Trader Joe's on a Friday afternoon. That's
what special place in Orama.

Speaker 4 (01:15:45):
I feel like, I feel like Hell it's just a
hot resort. I feel like I feel like the VIP
section of Hell. I feel like, well, yeah it can
be like Palings cried.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
It's just hot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
But yeah, I'm not mad at it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
I mean, I'm gonna end up there anyways, I might
as well go to the VIP section.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Like I'm just listening, I should say, for the those
who are wondering, I don't. I don't believe in Hell
as a concept, but I love the concept of like
the special place that has a list.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Right in here, like the inner circles where they reside.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
So okay, well I'll get to my yes, ma'am, Pam,
I will say, pam, yes, ma'am. I have the prefaces
by saying. One of my weird traits as a friend
to the people in my life is when someone gets
laid off or like leaves their job, I am the

(01:16:50):
friend who's like excited for them, and they're like, bitch,
I am not here for your woo woo, there's something
else for you kind of energy. But like that's very
much how I feel when people lose their jobs. So
my yes, ma'am is thinking about all of these people
who have We've seen like data in the last couple
of weeks about black three hundred and fifteen thousand Black

(01:17:12):
women who have lost their jobs, many of them coming
out of the government or coming out of diversity, equity
inclusion roles and different things like that. But also, like
we know, black unemployment is at its highest level, and
a lot of folks who have been that aren't even
necessarily black, but they may be browner in other marginalized
communities or white folks who have been doing that work.
I'm really curious and excited about what those people do next. Right,

(01:17:36):
because those people who have been in high level executive
roles or as creatives, or as philanthropists, or who have
been building community and networks and all kinds of different things.
I'm really feeling excited and called to like that group
of people who are going to be creating whatever we

(01:17:56):
do next. Right, They're going to be working on the
next project. They are going to be the people who
are going to be dreaming up, hoping for developing, creating
whatever is going to come after this, after you know
this ship so that we're in And so yes, ma'am
to those people, I'm calling out Pam and saying yes
and saying I want to know where those people are.

(01:18:20):
I want to hear from those people because I'm I'm
I know that you're frustrated or confused or unsure or
having an identity crisis about losing your work and those
different kinds of things. But like, I'm really really curious
about where those people will be, and I want to
speak to those people, convene those people, encourage those people,
converse with them, and support them. So that's my yes, ma'am.

(01:18:43):
I feel like my no, ma'am to sister Pam, you
going to Pam is like, now why am I in it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:54):
Own business?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Yes, I I'm just going for like the very one
that is consistently in my spirit, it is a fuck
Donald Trump, fu eyes, fuck the Department of War and
this entire regime. And if that's controversial to say, then
to these people who are always saying fuck you to
me at every intersection that I'm in, then tell me
why I shouldn't be saying it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Hello, ok, yeah, yeah, no, you this is this. You
are on the right podcast to say fuck Donald Trump.
You like you are literally like, there's no better place
like I could give you a ticket to come back
here to say it on my microphone if you would
like to fly into lax I to kick you up

(01:19:38):
and drive you to my home. Oh God, plug in
my microphone and say, Jared, you've got the mic, Donald Trump.
You are at the right place at the right time.
It is always a good time to say.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
That the right place.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
There's no other place there that what's that rather be song?
There's no there isn't. I'd rather be with the Coca Cola. Yeah,
that's it. That's it. You are in the right place. Honey.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
I'm thinking about Ray Charles and was it the Pepsi
commercial back when we were kids. You got the right one, baby, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
You got the right one? Baby? Yeah? Mmm, you do
you do it? And I said, I said it, and
I'm gonna keep saying it. It will be a glorious
day when we get to celebrate that big beautiful bituary.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Let me tell you, I love that you called it
the big beautiful bituary. Notuary I just want to point
that out. But I will say that I have been
waiting for no one morens the Wicked to be Yes,
I've been saying to my best friend, I want the
Broadway cast of Wicked to be outside of wherever that

(01:20:45):
funeral is happening, giving us singing fan kicks and all
the things during the eulogy loud enough to be heard inside.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
I want that character who cut Glinda off from Remember
when Glinda she was singing and he was like, no
one more. Glinda was my bitch. I need him being outside,
just singing, screaming and hollering nobody more Wicked. Amen, Amen,

(01:21:16):
what a moment, What a moment. Yohies, my god, I live.
I live for you, Micha, Ma and Pam.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
I'll start with that first. Also, fuck your rf K Junior,
because and the whole ma and the whole Maha movement.
What is Maha is that American health, make America healthy again, bitches,
Mahi Mahi, Mahi.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Maha.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
It's not into single mahi.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Like cause I mean, Mahi bi is just one. It's
just with mahi because I'm nothing hungry. The Maha Maha
movement make America Healthy Again, which I have to tell
you I had not know existed until recently.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
And the appetiteser serving is this the single man.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
Just just just.

Speaker 4 (01:22:11):
Exactly exactly. You know, you have two miles, he's for
dinner one moment.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Stupid, go ahead, go ahead, no just but I knew the.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
MAHA movements except for quite some time until recently. I
had I met this guy who I would like, like
he like lives like lives near me and like we're
working working like all the issue together, and he was
like so so nice, so so sweet and men in person,
and I was like, make America healthy again.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
And I was like, oh no, no, you're MAGA like
like I was like, and.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
I was like and and I was like, oh it sucks.
I'm like he was his nice person.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
I was like, no, this is so bad. And I
was like, I was like now my whole the whole time, I.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
Was like, how can I exit this conversation with this man?

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
But I'll just say the new guidance on on on
vaccines that would be given for this this new year,
it's just it's just pissed poor.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
It makes me sad to know that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
I mean, I'm not surprised if it's sad to know
that your government doesn't give a shit about us, even
more so than before. And now it's just like it's
just like making it harder for people to access the
care that they want and need, or it's like to
make people feel safe, especially with like COVID searching again.

Speaker 4 (01:23:15):
So I just wish people and I and also to
people who are like, is that still exists?

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Is that still a thing?

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:23:21):
Maybe people are still being disabled by it, so like
how about you check yourself?

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
Like a colleague just like messaged me this morning saying
that they have COVID like you know, like like like like.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Like, I like, I am all for you want just
life to be fun again for you, gir go ahead,
like I like, I get, I get like like I
do things much differently than than they.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Used to before.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
And also I'm not trying to get sick again girl,
and like and people are at the least still being
harmed by it, so like please stop saying shit like
oh oh.

Speaker 4 (01:23:50):
It's still a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
Yeah, girl, it's still thing. Unfortunately when tries you might
not be will be a thing. So I don't have
hinder that I guess. Ma'm pam is to two VMA things.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:24:01):
Everyone watched the Vmazon Sweet when.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
A Sabine Carpenter because she brought the dolls out for
her song.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Her song is.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
But she had Simone, she had Lesi Loved, She had
will One, which I was like, what an interesting placement.

Speaker 4 (01:24:13):
She had a gone to which I lived. She had
Honey in Siaga, she had de Sean Wesley.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
M Moore and I was like, no, what Sabrina. I
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
Yeah, I love Sabrina. She deserves went for Short and Sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
It was the best.

Speaker 4 (01:24:26):
It was, it was the best pop album. She's the
best and down also.

Speaker 3 (01:24:32):
Want to give it to Mariah Carey, not because she
won the Vio Vanguard Ward, even though she did deserve it.
I will say Mariah Carey did give us videos of
our time for sure, But my yes fan pam to
her is because she is the best at being Mariah Carey.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
Because this woman could not walk money more than one
step at a time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
She and you could see her face.

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
She was like step step step, breathe note step so
like it was she was getting she was getting a robot,
and I lived.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
She tried, she tried bend down to touch a fan.
The girl could not ben moan that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
Girl.

Speaker 4 (01:25:04):
I would be like, baby, it's your fine adjusted because
I can tell she cannot move more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
No, it's that we had almost too tight. That's what
it was. She's notorious for being like literally they literally
have to like surgically put her into a lot of
the stuff that she and I believe that that was
part of the reason why she could barely move last night.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
Well, I mean she was giving, she was giving RuPaul
and I was and I was living. I was like,
this is how Paul moves and know what she deserves
it and I love it, you know, like she's an
icon regardless. Go ahead, girl, do you think I live so? Yes,
vampam to those.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Yeah, I love Mariah for just being Mariah. Yeah, and
I'll give her this. Her mic was on, her mic
was on, Her mic was on at certain points, but yes,
her mic was wow.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Wow. No, I'm I just the use of the words
surgically about the at the outfit. I'm like, I'm imagining
her going under anesthesia, like having to wake up from
one hundred right, and she wakes up like a Valentino gown.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
They started like they started like a am like okay, girl,
we'll see you in about nine hours to get nice
little nappy poo.

Speaker 4 (01:26:23):
Don't you worry, Mariah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:24):
When you wake up, you're you're you're you're ready, and
she but, but, but she also has to be put
into a good chamber because she can't lay down, because
she has really a good chamber standing still.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
And I love that she didn't even like she was
holding the moon man and she was like giving Ariana
like tap taps on the back of her. I just
love that from so far away, no matter what, like
it's just it's it's it's so Mariah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
And I love this Earth heel that day, Earth healed
last night because some people were like they have a
few going on and Earth healed.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
I've never thought they had a few.

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
When when I first.

Speaker 3 (01:27:01):
Came out, people were like, she's coming for Riah's gig.
They're like, there's some interview.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
So I remember, ari are we going down this road?

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
I remember.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
I think it was Arianna and Jennifer Hudson and Mariah's
like Christmas video.

Speaker 4 (01:27:21):
Yeah, that was the first moment and was the first
moment They're not fine.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
I have a I have a hard time believing that
Mariah is that insecure and that part, like Nicki Minaj
kind of way no, because I live as well dot
dot dot do. But I just don't understand the idea
that Mariah Carey would be insecure about Arianna Grande also
having a whistle register.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
Never, I don't think. I don't think Arianna could touch
even half of Mariah's cattalalg personally. I just you know,
And again I'm not an out out. People know this
about me. Mariah is not. I am not a life
I will say that with all respects those who are.
I love that journey for you. But what I will
say is that I know talent when I see it,

(01:28:07):
and Mariah is talented. And I will say that that
is one of the things that I just I never
I never picked that up. I've never picked up that
Mariah was in a place of like, oh, this girl
is coming from me or coming for my my career.
I mean, I feel like a lot of the stuff
that I feel like some of the stuff with Nikki
when she was on American Idol. You can go back
and watch it if you want to know what that's

(01:28:28):
about was orchestrated for good television. But I definitely do
believe that Mariah is very much, way more talented than
what Ariana could ever see or do. No shae to
Ariana either, because I love Arianna. You know everybody knows
that what's that song about her?

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
Uh? This? Not?

Speaker 3 (01:28:47):
It was this?

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
What is this? There's a song that she has that
is my fucking jam positions that is my that is
my shi. Position is my ship. If you know, if
there's one song by Ariana Grandi that I am going
to know word for word, it is that song that
is my ship. But ultimately, I just I don't know.
I love that they were cool with each other and

(01:29:10):
that Arianna was able to give her the award that
she long deserves.

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
So well, please sinish your thoughts, beback, emails out, go ahead,
she got your dreams.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
I was giving a dumb a girl. Go ahead, chake
my gig. I'm gone a sixty eight show. W I
need to go email, go ahead? You know everything your

(01:29:57):
grand and well I.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
Didn't say okay, such.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
A key, but yes, send us your dogs via social media.
By interacting, I can see I literally can see Bay
and Joey looking at the clock like bitch, I got
places to go? Yes, yes, yes, My interacting with their
post Instagram and Twitter. Not Twitter, bitch, Why is Twitter
still here? God damn it? Threads, that'should say threads. Let
me change that because this is this ain't dot some

(01:30:39):
ship threads by using the handle at Black Fat Firm
Pod Jared, where can the Dolls find you? When you're
not playing Karmen san Diego?

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
You can? You can find me even as I'm traveling
as Carmen san Diego or or or maybe Carmen Inglewood,
I don't know. You can find me everywhere at Jared
Hill to ours two TA. I have a TikTok that
I don't use, but it's Jarret Hill on the TikTok
I couldn't get Jarrett Hill. So but yes, you can

(01:31:08):
follow me on all the social media.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
Then okay, we will definitely put that in our show notes.
Queen Jojo, where can the dogs find you? My love?
Of course?

Speaker 4 (01:31:17):
Maybe if you can findan.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
Jojo Danwel's across all socials website Joan Dale's dot comment.
If not there, you can find me also seeking the
Mariah Kaye treatment because I would love to go to
be knock the fuck out for nine hours and wake
up in voluntino gown.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Thank you very much, silly. Well as for me and
for minds, you can find me and details about where
I will be, We actually have any I'm not gonna
announce it yet, but we do have a date in
mind for another bookstop. So I will probably be talking
about that in the coming episode. Uh and there will

(01:31:50):
be a special guest that will be in the seat
with me that will be doing the talk back. So
once we get the details locked in, we'll definitely mention that. Yes,
if you want to learn more about my book ww
dot Doctor John Paul dot com. You can also find
me on Socials by using the same thing, Doctor John Paul,
buy the book. Tell you Auntie, your mama is your
cousins to buy the book and if you already got

(01:32:11):
the book, by another one, because all we need to
do is just keep running it up. Also, you can
watch my spot on ABC Our America Who I Am
Meant to Be And yeah, you can just find us
anywhere and everywhere. I'll here paying Bill's Girl, you know,
trying to keep our sugars low and trying to make
sure that we take care of ourselves. We want to
thank our superproducers Joey pat and Bei Wang for handling

(01:32:31):
all the logistics, and everyone over at I Heeartmedia for
continuing to keep the show up and running. It is
such a blessing to be on this network. I love
everybody who keeps this show up and running. We'd also
want to shout out our wonderful editor Chris Rogers, because
without him, we would have no audio or no visuals.
You would be the visuals baby down. Okay, so you

(01:32:52):
are the visuals baby. So we are grateful that we
have Chris who helps us put all that together. This
has been another show. Stay black, fat, femine fact be list.
Remember what yo hope.

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
We may not be your cup of tea girl, but
drink some water with some akalon because you iar changed,
you're in your pH bounce will be off.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
Just it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Yeah, girl, the reason why you are irritated, it's not
the moon, it's your pH balance all So yeah, go
ahead and grab you some water with al kaline. You'll
be fine. You'll be all right. Also, you know, put
some ice under your arm pit. It's hot outside. That'll
product a little bit more too. Anyway, I love us
for real, see you next week. Bye bye,

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