The Money Ain't Moneying (Featuring Mandi Woodruff)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat FEM Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the BLACKFATFM podcast where all the intersections of
identity are celebrated. I am one of your hosts, John
also known as Doctor John Paul, and it is upsetting
to me and my homegirls. That's the cost of everything

(00:22):
continues to go up. Will our wages do not like
if somebody please make it make sense? And I mean
since as in CeON ts make it make sense. Honey,
why is a bag to send a book eleven dollars
at the ups store? Eleven doll has? You know they

(00:45):
went up. And the other thing, the thing that gooped
me the most is the idea that Arizona ice he
said two years ago, we are not gonna raise our
prices because this is who we are as a company.
We we want you to be able to afford the
ninety nine cents iced tea. Bitch, you know they went

(01:07):
up to a dollar.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Twitter, not too much of my girls, Arizona.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Okay, girl, the tariffs don't not too much of my Girlsona.
They've been flying inflation forever, forever ever ever.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I said, Oh my God, it's a shame how they
mess around with mahas a shame. Yay ya, the way
they hurt. Please, we're gonna be talking a lot about
finances today and so I just told that that was
the perfect way for us to start. But how are you,
my love? He said?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
If you can't have Arizona teen n nine cents, what
can you do? You can't do my homes? Its the
belle of dreams.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Where the fuck can you go?

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Where you go?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hey, Levies, it is your best c Joe ho aka Jordan.
I remember, it's your best see Jordan aka Joe Hoo.
Girls early in the streets and I'm so to be
up today early with y'all. It's at am on our side,
and who the day is kicking off for me and
I'm here for it. Okay, the day is actually taking
me down and I'm fighting for my life.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Although I'm not gonna lie it's raining outside, I'm kind
of here for it. It's a nice cool word.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's been human.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
I don't know if it's been human for you, John,
but it's been like it's very three percent humidity every
day at like seventy degrees, So it feels like eighty
seven with and I'm just it's been nasty. So the
fact that's now I'm disgusting. It's gonna be so cute
and noise. I'm here for it.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, it's giving, it's giving. Uh, we're officially in fall,
which I know we're not. I know that we're still
good number tamps, but we're moving the summer turns.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh my god, you way.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Oh yes, We're gonna have so much pumpkin spice. And
I can actually have it this year because my sugars
are under.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Control period a year.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
But with that being said, I'm excited to tell y'all
about the guest. Guest we have coming on the show today.
She runs the award winning Brown Ambition podcast, a show
that focuses on inspiring women of color to build wealthy lives. Honey, healthy, wealthy,
you know your health as well? How you doing? You know?
And she means that in every sense of the word.

(03:24):
And then they support, you know, this notion of making
bold and brilliant life choices. I think that's also something
we don't talk enough about, this idea of making bold choices.
And I'm so glad that our girl is here to
talk to us about it. Please give it up for
our girl, Mandy money. How you do with this?

Speaker 4 (03:42):
Hey, how y'all do when I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I'm happy to have you here. We are happy to
have you here.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Eight am where I'm at. So I'm feeling good.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, you're sipping on your coffee and everything. I was
a little jealous, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was like, she got coffee already. I cannot wait.
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
But now, but now that I realized that is PSL Susan,
I'm I'm gonna order me a little ps some moment.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I don't know from where, but I'm gonna find a
place so I have yesterday from coffee Bean.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Congratulations on your sugars being down. That is just listen,
we take our wings where we can get them.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
For literally that it's not literally that. I'm just under
the live by.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
I lived by the rule by. Like if you just
have Greek yogurt with everything, then your sugars will be fine.
Greek yogurt, A little Greek yogurt, they'll take care of that.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Week.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yogurt is the vapor rub of my life.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
I love it right down, right down, John, that's title,
Yes man, you were still to have you with the
same we're excited to learn from and with you, we're
you kick up for show what we do every week
with our still hair Simon, and today she'll be focused
since she'll be focusing on the bolden brilliant choices of wealth.
We'd love to ask you when did you start being

(05:17):
serious about your finances and how'd you sceee training on
it to do so?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Did you receive training?

Speaker 5 (05:21):
It all?

Speaker 4 (05:22):
Like?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
For you know, so I'll start, I will all start.
We'll pass too many they'll pass to John, that's say
for me, like I wasn't so serious with my finances
until the pandemic, Like I you know, like I ain't
I have like a big girl job until I had.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
I graduated from.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
School, so I was like twenty eighteen anyways, and where
you used it, there was the pandemic And while I
happened my first time my big jar job, I definitely was.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Like I I go with a parent who manage.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Money well, and I'm always trying to help me understand
how to manage money as well too, like my my
my mom paticularly, she like she was able to buy
to buy her by her by her own house in
her thirties.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
She's always like saved really well.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
When she was working, she was a corporate girl, often
often a single girl having to do stuff herself.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
So she really tried to help me teach me that.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
And when I my first job, I was my first
like big person job.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I had many a ChEls before, but my first big
girl job.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
No job as a second job except.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Right, my first my first higher paying job.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
When you were able to put on.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Some health care why, yes, yes, some healthcare. Yes.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
But but during during the pandemic, while the payment was
like rough for me, mentally, I was financially the best
position ever. Like I was stacking money away because I
wasn't going out, I was in travel. A lot of
people were like it was really it was really amazing,
And that's when I was like, oh, like I need
to be serious about Like that's when I realized I
never want to have like less than.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
This amount in my savings account because I want to shoot.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
I have an X amount month savings for like like
for rent to something that happens to me, or if
I lose my job. And so that was really that
was just like really really really amazing and also a
huge privilege, right, Like it's it's it's a privilege to
be able to to.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
To have that.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
But it was also interesting because I think I think
it was also like like by like by my income,
I was I was like still like living patriot to
paycheck in some ways, but but like still like having
having the ability to save during that time was really
really really special. And to be frugal during that pandemonium.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Was who show?

Speaker 3 (07:27):
That was just like a lot. So yeah, so that's
that's what was for me. Maybe I'm curious to hear
about you in this process.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
Oh gosh, Yeah, So I I was a great recession graduate.
So I graduated from college with a degree in journalism
print journalism at that so your girl was not. I
was not supposed to survive very long in these streets,
and I quickly had to figure my shit out. I

(07:56):
took like an eat prey love kind of break after school.
I'm very proud of myself despite what was happening in
the economy. My gut just said, I don't want to
be in a swivel chair right now. I don't want to.
I had worked so hard in college, I like paid
my way through and I worked two jobs. You know,
on top of going to classes, I just I didn't
want to take up student loans and a lot of

(08:20):
my friends were not living that lifestyle. But I was
like working through the summer and yeah, after four years,
I was like, I just want to have fun. So
I traveled and I came back to the recession was raging.
I'm originally from Atlanta, Georgia, and Atlanta it was old
Atlanta then. It was not popping like it is now,
especially not for jobs, like for people in media. And

(08:42):
I was fortunate enough to get an opportunity to move
to New York and work for a magazine. And I
was like, oh my god, I'm the exception and I
this recession can't touch me. I am a snowflake.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
All that.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Two months later, honey, I was lego.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
And damn yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
And that for me, It's not that I needed a
wake up call because I was raised by a single
mom and we were not well off. Things were very tight.
I have where I'm one of four and my mom,
you know, raised us ranging from like age six to fifteen.
My parents got divorced, and so I definitely had this

(09:21):
fear of being financially insecure. And then that layoff on
top of it pissed me right on off because I
was I'm trying to not end up like that, but
I've barely even gotten started and I'm already kicked out
on my butt, and you know I can't. I bounced back.
I was able to find another job. It was very stressful,

(09:41):
and then I was like, let me use my career
path and see if I can't merge my two passions,
my passions for journalism and storytelling and media with financial
personal finance and investing in wealth building. And I was
I didn't really know how that was going to manifest.
But Business Insider was coming on the scene at the

(10:04):
time and they were starting a personal finance vertical and
I got an opportunity to interview, and somehow, some way
they gave me that job because I sure didn't have
a knowledge, but I could. I could, I could tell stories.
I could, I could you know, I could do journalism.
And that really set me up to I mean, every day,

(10:25):
all day, all I got to do was for free
talk to the smartest people in finance and business and
ask them all of my questions. And then I got
to and then I got to teach it. So I
was like I was learning it twice. I was like
getting the information, I was packaging stories, and that really
was my kicking. That was my launch pad. It was
a wrap after that, you know. By the end. I

(10:47):
started my four one K when I was twenty four,
and I love that girl so much, so smart y'all,
she really set me up.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, let's come on past you pass Mandy said, I
got you.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yes, past Maddy is looking out for the current.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Is so grateful because I don't have some kids, I
had a very different experience during the pandemic. Everything got
more expensive. So yeah, but through it all, my passion
really began with like how can I take care of myself?
And it remains to this day like that.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's actually really very similar to my journey as well.
And I love that you say that, like how do
I take care of myself? That was something I was
always thinking about in the back of my mind and
and this question. So I'll say this very transparently for
those who are listening. There used to be a time
in my life where anytime people will talk about money,

(11:48):
I would immediately run finances. Literally gate made my stomach
drop because you know, I I just knew and This
is the thing that I think that we don't talk
enough of when we talk about finances, right, Like the
system for a lot of marginalized people, the system is
set up for us to be broke. Like even in
the idea of like, you know, this whole idea of

(12:10):
like saving and getting a good job and all of that, like,
we're still not paid what we should be paid as
marginalized people. We're still not giving opportunities to understand finances
the way, and so for because of that, I used
to get so upset and I used to be so
frustrated that I didn't even want to engage the conversation
of finances because it would it may It literally enraged
me when I thought about how systematically we were basically

(12:34):
set up to be poor. And when I say we collectively,
what I'm talking about is black women, queer women, you know,
like quick, trans people, non binary people, like we were
just it always felt that And so for me, what
really kind of was my wake up call was when
I you know, so for many folks who know me
and know my past history, I used to work on campus,

(12:56):
I was living on campus. But at the same time,
people thought, oh, well, you're not paying rent and you
should you know, you should be stacking all of your money.
And it was like, actually, no, I was like taking
care of my family and I was also taking care
of me at the same time. So I never had
any money. I was always basically always broke. My credit
was shot. It just I was in a very very

(13:16):
bad place. And then it like when I started looking
for an apartment, I started realizing, like I actually left
that job and had to like find my own apartment.
I started realizing how hard it was like for you
to find a decent place if your credit was shot.
And it's like it's not that you can't, it's just
there's all of these things that you have to go

(13:38):
through in order for you to get an apartment. And
so that was kind of like my first real wake
up call was like, oh my god, I don't want
to be homeless again, you know, our houseless again. I like,
I gotta do something different. And so, you know, once
I started, you know, quote unquote, when I when I
went out on my own in twenty seventeen, I stepped
out on my own and I started actually being able

(14:01):
to start saving and getting my credit together, and you know,
all of these things it was like, oh, okay, I
actually can figure this out. I can actually you know,
study a little bit more. And I started, like, I
leaned into it. I started listening to podcasts that were,
you know, focusing on finances, and I was I intentionally
was listening to black women talk about finances, like, you know,

(14:22):
folks like yourself, because I didn't want it to come
from a privileged place, right, A lot of white men
give advice, but it's coming from a place stuff. I've
always had wealth, so it's easy for me to talk about. Well,
I wanted to hear from people who were like I
struggled and I went through this and I went through that,
and this is how I was able to get over it.
And so I just I really really wanted to get

(14:42):
out of you know, if that was my number one
thing was I just don't want to have bad credit
because everyone in my family has bad credit, and I
that was my biggest thing. And again I also want
to note we know that credit is is slash was
created again as another way to create you know, create
oppression around black people, and so that was something I
also had to learn how to play the game of.

(15:04):
But I definitely think about you know, my experiences of
getting bad loans and my experiences of not being able
to find a place to live and all of that.
And that's why now I'm like super super super helping
on not only just saving, because I'm in the same place.
Once I start to see that number, the window on
my savings like, ain't no more, no more bags, Ain't
no more eat now, Ain't no more going to the

(15:25):
Ain't no more going to the movies. Girl, I can't
get no popcorn. We're gonna have to watch it in
the house. And that's kind of the move I'm in
right now. But the reality is, I'm very very very
very grateful to say I've been able to kind of
get out of those bad habits. And you know, I
do have a little bit of coins. That credit is
definitely looking amazingly better because she she up there and excellent.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
I see that.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
Everything is up. I'm reading that sign behind you.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yes, yes, it's everything.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Credits as up dance. It's multi.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Dance, honey if it's yeah, So you know, and and
and I and I just I definitely want to say this,
you know, I know, I know the head of this
podcast listens to the show. I am so every day,
I am so thankful for this podcast because it gave
me another source of income and it has allowed me

(16:35):
to be able to do the things that I need
to do to survive. And I think that's the thing
that we don't talk enough about, is you know, opportunity,
like it like you can't have good credit, you can't
have wealth if you don't have opportunity. And so every
day I'm so grateful for not only just the job
that i have working with queer youth, but I'm grateful
to have a podcast that's not only reaching people, but

(16:56):
also it's putting money in my pocket to be able
to save. And so I'm just I'm very, very grateful
and thankful for that. So yeah, you know, one thing
I want to.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Say before before I cut through a commercial is just
like I'm about housing ange on. It is such a
It's such a great point because like like like ask
them that who owns a home and is and is
a landlord? Like I think like the folks I've had
rent my place and only I've had two people, but
like I what I what I was interested in what
their credit score was, Like they just wasn't like like

(17:28):
and it's sad because it's it's it really isn't. It's
an arbitrary tool like the you use it to like
assess risk, but not because like it's it's it's not
like these these housing uh like rent agencies have like
have like you must have the score because it's really
about them like assessing their own risk and like, okay,
I get assessing risks, but like but it becomes such
a becomes such a barrier for people, and there are

(17:48):
so many people who actually like who like who can't
afford to you can't afford to rent housing, but they
won't because of an issue that happened in their past
that that messed up their credit score. Yeah, like and
the and the and so it's like it's the immediate
right off for like for for for mental places, like well,
your risk is too high and I'm like my girl
like like to me, it makes you think of like
like it's such a it's such a dispassionate too, and

(18:11):
like also just it's not meant for nuance and context.
But like the folks that I've had read like our
folks that I was like, okay, like I know you're
your credits is low, okay, Like like let's discuss what
actually means to you, Like I'm I like, I know
you have a job.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I know, like I know, and also like when when
you like when you run a credit report and like
if you're.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
If you run those credit report in that way like
like like a background check, like you actually just see
all of the financial information and so because you have
a lot of information and be like no, girl, like
I know you actually have like you actually have the
money to do so, and so like I mean, and
I'm not trying.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I'm not giving myself a pound the back for like
for not using.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
Reports like I like I ought to.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
I think you know strong, Yes, thank you.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
I struggle with the idea of like like like like
when when people say like some more because I'm like
owning something renting out, it just feels it feels challenging
in general.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
But like but I do like I do for me,
I appreciate, like I know, like the whole person circumstance.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
I'm like right, not like I know and and what's
and and what's the crazy thing.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Is like your credit score typically doesn't include on time
rent payments exactly. When people it's like and people, it's
like if I'm not going to pay a bill.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
It's not it's going to be I'm going to skip
the you know, like credit card payment, paying my rent, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Which I will say, like for me, I use zilo
and so and so zillow when you when I appreciate Zilos,
like if you use their portal when like when you
pay on time, it will actually.

Speaker 6 (19:46):
Report to report a lot of companies do now which
a lot of right, and but if you don't pay,
then it won't report which I which which I appreciate,
was like reporting a late payment just won't report all
and so and so I'm like, to me, like it's
a gift.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Just it's like a privilege to say like, hey, like
use this portal when you pay on time, it will
reflect in your cards score and so then that like
you can help someone build credit as well, and that's
really that to me is like a big part of gift.
But like people who use crushers in that way and
like use it to night people. I'm just like, girl,
like you can do like you can do that, you
can do better and you can do different. Right Like

(20:21):
I high, I had a huge privilege of always have
of always having good credit and shout to my mom
for always the person like she had put me on
all of her credit cards when I would just gonna
be on credit cards, and like that immediately helped me,
like gain gain a credit history.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
And so I think so with girl because the way
my family was set up, but none of that was
given to me. I even. And the last thing I
say before we go to commercial is that it's you know,
the both of y'all's point is it's extremely expensive to
be poor. And that's the thing that I don't think

(20:56):
people truly get is how like I mean it literally
is like like, okay, you you you know you're making
twenty five hundred dollars a month and you're ran, you know,
and this is just me throwing out arbitrary numbers, right,
but if you're rent as one thousand dollars, you know
that only leaves you a fifteen hundred dollars. And then
if your car note five hundred dollars and I only
leaves you with one thousand dollars, you know they leaves
you with fifteen hundred. But now you're down to one

(21:17):
thousand dollars. And so if you have you know, if
you get sick and you don't have insurance and your copay,
you know, or they're charging you two thousand dollars for
a doctor's visit, You're fucked, you know what I mean. Like,
that's literally what it comes down to. And that's the
stuff I don't think people see is like it's it
has it has everything to do with the idea. And

(21:37):
that's what I was saying at the top of the show.
As much as I was joking, I was being very serious.
It is so expensive right now, and I don't think
people get that. Are not like the wages are not
going up, and that's if you even have a wage.
I know so many people who you know, who just
don't have a job right now, and they're frustrated because
they're going it just keeps getting more expensive and I

(21:59):
can't afford it, you know. So what is to be alive?
What's time to be alive?

Speaker 3 (22:05):
You can see we're talking a lot about money and bills.
This week, we got to take a first quick break.
We come back with a more with Mandy for a
Cagariat segment more in.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Justice that Yeah, I know, yeah, it's trauma, it really is,
you know.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, those years where you're living paycheck to paycheck and
you are, like you are going from bad loan, title
loan paid, you know, payday loans like these these toxic
products like the stress and the anxiety and waking up
with your heart racing, Like I think that is it
is a form of trauma. And I'm wondering, like now, John,
if I can ask you a question, Professor Hick, like,

(22:52):
do you do you feel even though the bank account
is reflecting more money?

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Now?

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Do you do you feel it? Do you feel okay?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Safe? Who? That is a that is a question. No,
I don't feel safe, I will say. I will say
very transparently, I am especially now, like there was a
moment where I was starting to feel really good about
my finances and then I started noticing, you know, the
whole real the whole rollback on DEI has meant that

(23:24):
I'm not getting as many speaking gigs and I'm not
getting as many consulting opportunities. And so now I'm looking
at this idea of like I have a full time
job which pays me okay, and then I have this gig,
you know, I have this this podcast, which is great, right,
but there's still this idea of like people don't seem
to understand how expensive it is to live in California.

(23:48):
And when I say like there is, everyone's like, oh,
you know where you live, even in the Inland Empire.
I'm like, the Inland Empire is expensive now, Like people
like there's just people don't get it, Like there's just
there's this thing of like, yes, I can afford it, right,
I'm grateful that I can, but there's still this element
of like when is the shoe gonna When is the

(24:09):
other shoe gonna drop? And I'm always worried about that.
So as much as I buy, I am too.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
I don't ask that to make you feel I just
I think we're all feeling that, And I just want
to hold space for people who even just listening to this,
Like I think you mentioned like before, when you come
across financial topics or you hear about finances, you would
look the other way. And I think it is so
anxiety inducing and the world is so full of other

(24:37):
things we can do to like dull that anxiety, and
like the hardest thing and the most beautiful, the hardest
thing about the financial journey is looking at everything and
like looking up past mistakes and looking at what you
where you are now, and like pushing forward, and I
just think it's great we're having any conversation where you know,

(25:00):
as a group we can sort of like support each other.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Yeah, sometimes we just need someone to like hold your
hand and say, yeah, your past doesn't define you, and yeah,
thank you for that. It is a new day.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
The hardest thing for me right now, and I will
be transparent and saying this is the feeling of the
pressures of I don't own a home and I can't
I like feeling like I'm never going to ever be
able to afford one right, And everyone's like, well, why
don't you move, Why don't you move? You should move
away from California. And I'm going, y'all, like, it's so
easy to tell someone to move away when you don't

(25:34):
have to worry about being black, queer and a different
and a place where you're not safe, right, And I
tell people all the time, like the only places that
I know for And it's not even to say that
I'm safe in California, because I'm really not. But what
I'm saying is is that I know, like I always
tell people I stay in California because I know the racism.
I understand it. I comprehend it. I know the places

(25:54):
in California where I can be, and I know the
places in coun California where I shouldn't be, and it's
it's it's you know, I like the dream of mine
would be able to, you know, move up to San
Francisco and be closer to my two best friends up there,
and have a home up there, and be able to,
you know, do what I do here, and all of
that is a dream. But I look around and I'm
just going like, I don't know if you saw the
report that just came out, but California is the most like, like,

(26:19):
homes are the most expensive in our country in California,
eight hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars is the standard
for where we live. And it's just it's I beat
myself up for it a lot, like I think about too. Yeah,
And that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
House caperty taxes.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
They were saying, there's a story I just read it.
The whole article was saying that what's eating people up
is not the mortgage, it's the property taxes. So you're
paying four thousand dollars a month for your mortgage now,
but you're also paying three thousand dollars a month for
property taxes, So who in their right mind has.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
Just hand dollars?

Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's me, the drama. It's me. How do I know
that Taylor Swift song when I don't even like her?
But yeah, I'm just saying, like, that's the thing that
I think eats me up more than anything is. You know,
there's all these things that I should like. I look
at my bank account and I think about how much
money I bring in and I think about it, and
I'm going, damn, you should be able to afford a home,

(27:22):
and I can't, you know, so, because I'm making the
choice to stay here, and I know people who are
listening are probably like, you should just just move, and
I'm like, I wish it was that simple.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
But you know what, you can also build equity in
an investment portfolio while you're waiting for the housing situation
to work out, Like you could be investing, and screw
anyone who makes you feel bad for renting and not
owning a home, because it is not all that. And
also it's a lot of it's a lot of people
who buy homes because of pressure, and they buy at

(27:54):
the wrong time, and prices right now are so inflated.
I'm fortunate that I bought my I'm lucky, I should say,
not fortunate. Timing just worked in my favor. I got
my house in twenty eighteen. I live thirty minutes north
of Manhattan and the Burbs, and like I got my
house in twenty eighteen, mortgage rates were very cute. It
was like three point or four point per something percent,

(28:15):
and then the pandemic hit and all of a sudden,
my home value was shooting up.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
I look like a gen.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
But now I'm just with a low interest rate. Second,
no nothing else.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Wag wake that up, Andy, because because like my interest
rate is like you will never find I'll never find
an interest rate like that. Like I'm like right, but
like i'd I'll never never fun that again. It's really
usually challenging and like John.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Let me say, like.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Like your house, your houses, I am, I imagine it's
like you don't see you don't see short term return,
like you just don't see it. And so like I
all the time, I'm like I did this all was
pressured and like sure, I was like I was like
I was pressure. I'm like more like sure, like maybe
like in ten, like like five to ten years, I'll

(29:07):
see the return on it. But like, but like society
in the world, the way the way the way the
world's built isn't giving you space to think about the
next ten years. My thought is, right, girl, can I
for this mortgage in the next six months or not?
Like right like it's like it's like I don't like
like I like not everyone actually has the like, the

(29:27):
ability capacity or bandwidth to think about to think about
like a long term investment in that way. So I
really really is chudged, like I I honestly, I honestly
can't say if I know for sure that I that
I think that that I think like like like like
if I like when I do it again, I'm honestly
not sure like or if or like or if I

(29:47):
do again, if I do it again, I would make
sure that I'm gonna stay in this place for like
ten years and not care to do so, like because
also for me, like having a home and then moving
out of it was like also challenging because like I
did all this work and I and I.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Thought like I thought, oh I I did the thing
that's to bring me joy. It brought me more debt.
It brought me like it brought me more stress, more anxiety.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, I will say that you were not the same
person when you were living in that house or when
you were dealing with yeah you know when you were Yeah,
you're just a totally different person now, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
And so I think, like I like I do want
to like show you and anybody like that that idea
of like like like that idea of this is what
life's supposed to be. I think, like I I think
it's more fallacy than it is fat And I think
like I don't want and when to depress themselves to
make that the type of decision because that they also

(30:40):
decisions like it also holds you like other than they
it holds.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
You for a long time.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Now I will be extra clear saying you don't own
the house, girl, I don't own the house. The bank
own's house. Well, I'm also it's still my landlords, Okay.
I like like like it is a titleholder and leanholder.
I still have to pay the bank, like like like
for the FLA space. And so I think like Washington mutual,
I miss yes, yes at a certain age.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Like just like just like to be for real like
it is.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
I think if people want you and they can do
it great, but like I don't actually think, especially in
the way the world set up now, like like there's
so many things you have to do as the owner
that like some things are handled, Like sometimes it's actually
easier working for someone's life, temp a rental because like like.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Things all the time is easier to yeah, yeah, let's
talk about that. Yeah yeah, but you got it in best,
Like you know, I'd love to talk about wealth building
because I think especially in underserved communities and we're all black,
especially in black communities, black neighborhoods, black families, like there's

(31:51):
not a lot of like home ownership does feel like
the only option, Like oh, but that's what it means
to be. If it's not a house, then it's like
other things. It's car you know, it's jewelry, it's like
it's nice things. And I think that there's not enough
education about like the silent wealth that happens that's invisible,
that happens in your portfolio, that happens you know, when

(32:13):
you learn how to invest and you know, make your
money work for you. And I do think we like
especially like I'll speak for myself, growing up in Atlanta,
I didn't really have any financial education from either side
of my family. My mom is white, my dad's black,
And it felt like, damn, if only someone had just

(32:36):
taught a little bit, you know, taught a little bit
about the form one kay, taught a little bit about
you know, index funds and how to make your money
work for you, all of us could have been so
much better and I wouldn't feel this like enormous pressure
to like help and you know, be the one who
like did okay, and I I don't like that for us.

(32:57):
I want us. I want us, And I think one
of the good things about the pandemic was like there
was a ton more interest in personal finance content and education.
But then you see, in like black and brown communities,
it became about crypto and let me go buy a
commercial truck and let me start a trucking business, let
me do drop shipping, and it's not you know, it's

(33:19):
it just didn't feel as holistic as it could be.
And that's what I like to focus on a Brown ambition.
It's like, we talk about making your money work for you.
I love talking about like, you know, creating different revenue
streams and really seeing yourself as a as a business
in and of itself as you navigate your career. Yeah,

(33:39):
so that you can get to a place where you
feel like maybe you don't have all the physical trappings
of wealth, but like you have that core of like,
oh I'm going to be okay, yeah, it's like real wealth.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
M Yeah, so I want to I think what I
love about part of your framework is that we you know,
you talk a lot about this idea that we all
deserve better opportunities and to be paid your worth without
having to always kind of pay your dues. And we've
talked about this in a lot of our own conversations,

(34:13):
this idea of like the oppressive framework of you got
to pay your dues before you actually And it's like,
and you were even talking about that, right, Like I
think that was something we saw in the early recession
of two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, you know,
and we hear this too now millennials have not paid
their dues and so and it's like, girl, can you
just give me to check? I have three degrees? Can
we not just off just just run me my money?

(34:36):
I guess the you know, to kind of put us
back on track. How do we help people get out
of the mindset of having to pay their dues before
they can find this success or that they can find
the money to be able to do the things that
they want to do.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
Yeah, I mean, if you're talking about that in terms
of your career, I think I'm I'm obviously a black woman,
and I don't have y'all's experience, but I know that
black women, like we often are expected to be so
grateful to get anything that the sense that we would
ask for more really infuriates people. It'll piss them right

(35:12):
on off. And we're like, and now what else can
we have? Or now I deserve this as well. It's like,
but you're here, you got a paycheck, Like why are
you asking?

Speaker 2 (35:20):
How to dare you?

Speaker 4 (35:22):
And I got very tired of that quite quickly in
my career, And I think for me what helped was
I had a great mentor who since passed away, the
great journalist from Atlanta and his name was Ray and
he's the first one when I was not when I
was negotiating my salary at Business Insider, and I was
trying to like ask for more money. I had been promoted,

(35:43):
like my editor got fired and I swept in like
game of thrones, like give me the throne and furiously,
and I was trying to negotiate, and I remember going
to my you know, going to Ray and like an
email and asking him what I should say, and he
was like, listen, you can ask for more money, but
you need to be looking for other opportunities at the
same time because if they say whether they say yes

(36:05):
or they say no, you don't want to just leave
it up to your one single employer to determine your
earnings potential. And he really taught me a great lesson
keep and looking beyond my employer and not feeling the
sense of loyalty and the sense of oh but I
if I just stay and I keep ticking their boxes,
I'll get what I deserve. I think that's another way

(36:25):
of like paying your dues, is I'm gonna work my
way up from like this level to the next level.
And you're you're going, you're like listening at the all hands,
You're listening to your manager. Here's what you got to
do in the next six months to get this blah
blah blah. It's all bullshit, really, because companies will find
money if they are afraid to, if they think they're
going to lose you, They'll fine, they'll throw out that promotion,

(36:49):
you know, step by step plan real fast. So I
think we need to teach more people of color in
general how to keep the options open professionally, so that
they can attract multiple offers, they can get competing offers,
and so that you're constantly keeping a stream of knowledge
about what your real worth is.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Each one. What was that?

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Love?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I said, Maddy, say each one? Teach one?

Speaker 2 (37:21):
You know I love I like really like I love
her organic.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
This conversation has been this far, and like, I have
so many questions I want, like I want us to
ask you honestly because they think like like like one
thing I think about is I wish.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
We could go into like how do you negotiate your salary?
That is a skill that people we.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Don't have time for that.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Why can't we do that? I love talking about you
know you have the time keep the showing for a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
But I mean, I think I have a whole workshop
called the Maker.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
I was just like, I tell us that we that
we can.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
What we can do is that when when we have
you back to to like maybe maybe we've been like
other ways, say to work with you right, like we were.
We're constantly thinking of things to create more content and
things are really helpful, and I think like this would
be a great thing, especially especially knowing that our community
is black, flat them so black carean trans folks who
like who ext who exists at the level of like

(38:23):
who exists at the level of being like under certain
under resource by like by by by the world. So
I think, like, there's my mind's been with a lot
of stuff. I think we would definitely love to work
to work with you on I think I do have
a question, you know, because you've been doing this work
for over a decade, getting your start, as you said,
running a business insider, and then you joined Yahoo Yahoo

(38:44):
Finances Vertical, which I've read your stuff many times.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
I will say say that like by Yah Yahoo finance verticle.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
What to me like like was like was my game
teanger during the pandemic where had time to read and
was like, oh, I like this is how me understand.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Much more so, having had millions.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Of hits across all your piece of content, what do
you think has been the easiest advice for people to
integrate into their lives without having to have tons of money,
especially in times like now when it feels like the
money ain't money, and.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Like get used to.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
I think we could all, well, this is the thing,
all the personal finance advice that I want to say,
and I struggle with this. It all feels like bullshit.
And this time, this day and age. One of my
favorite things to talk about previously was lifestyle inflation and
how you know we can avoid like eating up our
additional earnings. You start earning more money than you start

(39:36):
buying nicer things, you get the nicer apartment.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Hey, hey, hey, I'm complimating getting your nails done twice
a month instead of one.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
Lifestyle inflation is real, and it's lifestyle creep or whatever
you want to call it, and I want to like,
that's my one of my things that And listen, I
have two kids, and there's no nothing worse for your
finances than having them kids. I'll tell you that, right
damn Now, I love them babies. But I'm like, oh, yeah,
I was good at this before, and now the money
is gone. The mortgage and the daycare bill are almost

(40:09):
the exact same cost, and it's taken. But anyway, so
I was going to say lifestyle inflation, but then you
have a world where we have these tariffs that are
causing all this like inflation that's not within our control.
So we're just trying to buy the same damn eggs
and bread at the store and now it's like the
inflation is happening to us. So one thing I want

(40:31):
to say is this is this is not normal times.
This is this is a this is the time for
if you're stressing, you have debt, you have credit card debt,
you know what to do, that's right, but you're having
to make the best of bad choices. My biggest piece
of advice right now is to lean on one another,
open up about it with some trusted, confident on so
that you are not dealing with the stress alone. Because

(40:54):
I worry about the crushing weight of financial anxiety and
how it is present and it is suffocating so many families,
so many of us the anxiety around it, and I
just worry about what that means for us long term,
and I leaning on each other and communicating is is
one way to just like help relieve some of that pressure.
And it's so hard to do and that may not

(41:16):
be what you were looking.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
For, but no, they're not really And then it's really
helpful because like one thing I've I've worked on, especially
in my friendship's relationships, is like like I and my
friendships we always like we strive to have salary salary transparency,
like how many workplaces encourage you and not share your
salary and like and like, yeah, I don't know in California,

(41:40):
Like in California, it's not illegal to talk about you're
just told not to talk about you told you shouldn't
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Legal anywhere to talk about yourary.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
And and the end of the way, discussing it has
helped me and my friends advocate for more money, like
like and it's sad because like like like places are
you made. Places are scared for you to ask for
more and they judge you for asking for more. But girl,
like girl, it is is it is a hard world,
like we like we like you see the cost of inflation,

(42:06):
you see how cost of living is rising.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
And you aren't. You aren't paying me like that, you
aren't paying me.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
You you weren't helping me make up a difference in
the middle of what I'm being paid and what it
costs to live and so you know, like I like,
I I appreciate you saying how some people you trust
because I and share with them because it's so it's
so true, like I, I, I don't want to hide
in friendships places like I'm not like I'm go buy

(42:34):
a post about it on like social media.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
It's a whole different thing. But like I like I,
I don't want to shrink.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
I want to shrink or be scared to talk about
it one because I like, I know I'm not making
it as much as as some friends and like and
and some friends I am making more than, so I
want their friends I'm making more then to say, Okay,
I know what I actually can be worth and I
can like talk about this and advocate and advocate for
more for myself and like info friends who we're making more,

(43:01):
I know how I can advocate for more, or like
or we talk about tools to save money, like I,
I don't. I don't want anybody to feel like I
don't want to feel like to your point, financially anxiety,
it's challenging and it's hard, and the more we try
to break that down for ourselves, the more chances of

(43:22):
like we have of actually being more financially successful. Like
if I can talk, if you can talk, to your
friends or your family about what your finances are and
with what what what they look like without judgment. You're
such a place to say, like, no, girl, let me
help you out today. Let me like, let's let's let's uh, let's.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Say, somebody please send me a dollar? Yes, you know,
or like like like I I've had.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Many like I am definitely somebody who like who like
like I have done. I have a friend who they
have to.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
These several times and said, girl, let's figure out what
you're going out budget is because you be buying too
many coffees and in the month, I'm like you, right, girl,
but I have a little treats Like the treats you
is good girl, but you also aren't paying this bill today,
so you need to figure out what the.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Treat what we can do we can do instead.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
Having the people around you also can sit you down
and say, let's discuss what your game pun is for
for making more or saving more as really as Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
So so with that being said, uh, we we've talked
a lot about debt and money and things, so right
now we have to take a break from talking about
our student loan debt and the collectors and all the
things between them, because y'all know I still got them, honey,
getting them back right. When we get back, we're gonna

(44:42):
come back and we're gonna tell you what's popping in
our next dec Man.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Fam, we are of a lock and this week we're
gonna dive into our West popping tagment, talk about what's
popping and popping tags. By popping tags, I mean personal
finance girl, because as you said earlier, you know I
were talking earlier, we want to discuss tools and strategies
to astromor avocy for yourself.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
And man, it was like, but can't we be like no, Actually,
it's our show and we can and we can into
it and we wail some of.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
You know, you know, knowing that you have a show
all all about this, take us through how you friend
the conversation, how you tee it up, how you show
people the best ways to.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
For themselves astromore get more right. So I have this.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
I have a five step negotiation masterclass that I have
been teaching for four years now and it's my So
it's a it's a five step process called the Maker
method because I love our literations. A basic bitch many
moneymaker nothing And I can go through that really quickly,
and I'll encourage all if you're listening and you want

(45:58):
to learn more. I'm not the kind of person who
can do a SoundBite to give you a full thing.
So like I have like a ninety minute masterclass that
you can go to Mandy money dot com and get
my negotiation scripts and all my other freak I have
more freedom like that, but I'll run through it really fast.
So the m in the maker method is to make

(46:18):
them excited to hire you. And the I know that
the what y'all might expect is for me to say,
like you have to ask, you have to ask. But
if you don't have enough clout and you don't have
enough like of a reputation built up as someone who's
very good at what they do, other people want you to,
you know, come work for them. Like you're in demand
that you are, You're you're out there. People are respecting

(46:43):
your thought leadership, they're expect they're respecting what you're saying
about whatever skills that you have or what an industry
you're in. So are you speaking at conferences? Are you
are you connected well within your industry so that companies
they know like, oh, if you'll heard about on John
does that amazing, you know, and you have to build

(47:03):
that up and that takes time. So making them excited
to hire you is key. And when you're when you're
doing that well, this is when you know you're doing
it well. As if you're getting inbound requests on LinkedIn
from recruiters asking you about opportunities, they're coming to you.
And if you're in boxes dry, no one's coming to
you with opportunities, no one is like coming to you

(47:25):
with jobs you're actually interested in, then you have a
there's something that you can be doing more to put
yourself out there to make people excited about you. The
second thing the letter A is for attract multiple offers,
so you you have no better leverage than when you
have multiple companies coming for you or multiple opportunities you know,
coming to your plate. Now, we can't time this all

(47:46):
the time. I've had clients who have ended up with
three offers at one time and managed to get like,
you know, have huge bargaining power and managed to negotiate
really well. But even your current job can be seen
as an all time alternative offer. So if you have
another company, who's who you've attracted and they're looking for
you as talent. You can use the fact that you're

(48:07):
currently employed as lever to like go in with more confidence.
But how are in attracting multiple offers? Especially for my
shy girls who feel like, oh, I'm introverted, I don't know,
I'm shy, I don't want to like, I don't I'm
nervous about saying what I'm worth. Well, then let them
do it for you. Nothing more more than a cold,
hard offer that says Mandy is actually worth ninety five

(48:29):
K and y'all they're paying her, you know, sixty five k?
Yeah you do is bring that sheet of paper that
email and be like, so there's this I will I'm
just gonna leave us here like either I'm leaving and
taking this or you guys can give me more. So
that's the attract multiple offers. And if you're if you're
following each method like each step, if you're making people

(48:52):
excited to hire you and work with you, you will
attract multiple offers. K is know your value. So this
is market re search, which if you're attracting multiple offers,
that's the best kind of market research. And what you
said earlier when you said I have my friends we
talk about our salaries. I love that so much. My
heart my heart smiled. So you have to be talking

(49:14):
to your peers. You have to be you know, looking
at job posting, see what salaries they have, interviewing as
you can, because you'll get like real time market data.
No one's going to sell their house based on what
it was worth last year. They're going to look at
the comps from today. So think of yourself like an
investment property in that way. I have a client right
now who has gotten some feedback during the interview process that, oh,

(49:35):
the management's really excited about you. They just don't know
if you're the this is the right fit for you.
And that, for me, is what the EA is all about.
Eliminate their objections. And I think there's one thing that
we know how to do. It's how to like doubt
ourselves and be our own hater. And this is the
one time I'm going to allow you to think about it.
So think about what someone may have to object against
you in this position, so that we can start building

(49:56):
a case and like building what you're going to say
in practice, how you're going to you know, tell yoursel
story in a way that eliminates those objections. And then
the last step is you get that offer. Pray like pray,
you get that offer, and then you have to negotiate.
You have to rock the counter offer. So I have
like a bunch of different methods. Like I teach about

(50:16):
the compensation cupcake. You think about your total compensation package
as a cupcake, not as just the cake itself. The
salary is the cake, but then you have the icing,
which can be your signing bonus, it can be equity
in the company, it can be even funds for like
professional development. Then you get.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Sprinkles for a k match.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
And then I you know other benefits like flexible work
from home, like those sprinkles, those additionals, and then the
cherry on top. For me, I call this like the
equalizer cherry. As a black woman, like we just got
to add ten percent to whatever it is that we
think we are worth, just to make up for the
years of being just to make up for just to
hedge against am I still undervaluing myself because it can

(51:01):
always use a little bit more? So I have a
little eques. That's the maker method to you. I'm not
short winded, no, it's and it's okay that you're not.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I guess the other question I would have is what
about folks who are currently in a role and have
not seen a pay bump in you know, I e.
I'm talking about me, Like, what about people who have
been in jobs for a minute and they're worried of
like how do I go to my bass, especially when
you're in a nonprofit saying like, hey, what I'm making

(51:31):
is not right what I'm what I'm making is.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
A way with so much shit for making people feel
like they don't have money. And it may be true
if you have like a grassroots smaller, but a lot
of nonprofits are still like they're a for profit, they're
making money. But just to answer your question, if you're
currently employed and a lot of people are, this economy
is tough. We have not a ton of jobs and
we have a lot of people who are sheltering in place.

(51:54):
You have a job, you're scared shitless because people are
losing their jobs. Got doge over here eliminating positions at
the federal level, even federal drift government job.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
And so I get it at all.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
We don't want to be rocking any boat right now,
and so you're putting less people move from their jobs,
which leaves the people who are unemployed waiting much longer
to find a new job. It's extremely frustrating to be
in this in the interview process right now. Then you
have people who you're currently at You're afraid, am I
going to ask for more now? Like what if they

(52:30):
get mad at me? And you know, and what if
I'm penalized for this. The best thing you can do
is to have patients. It's not going to be like
it was back in twenty twenty one, where you have
as many companies coming to you with competing offers and
it's just not the market it was a few years ago.
It may take several months before you get to the

(52:51):
place where you have an offer from another company that
can give you leverage where you currently work. That being said,
I encourage anyone to still have that conversation with the
management team. Let them know that you know that you're
being underpaid. This is a great time. This is after
labor Day if you're listening to this podcast, now, this
is a great time to start preparing your manager for

(53:12):
asking for a raise before you have to wait, like
don't wait for the annual review time like in January,
when you're getting your you're getting your performance review, like
by that time, in a lot of cases, it may
be too late to ask for a significant raise because
budgets have to be approved. So I always encourage people
if you're asking for promotion, especially or compensation adjustment, which

(53:33):
is like I'm vastly underpaid compared to the market, I
need to ask for something significant like fifteen twenty percent
rais or more. Then ask for that heading into Q
four because your manager is going to need to get
that approved and come correct, like, come with a rationalization
or an argument for why you're asking for what you're

(53:53):
asking for. Do your market research, you know, look at
your compensation, at other roles, at competitors, and just come
with those kinds of receipts.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
You don't always have to.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
You don't have to have a competing offer. It's amazing
if you do. But just the fact that you're looking
at other companies and looking outside should give the hint
that I am clocking what's going on here and you
may lose this talent. Now it's up to them how
they respond to that, but you have to at least ask.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah, and she will and she will because the way
the life is life, and right now you know mother's
going have to ask for some extra trump change. But no,
I appreciate you sharing that because I think you know.
The two of it is is there are people who
are like I have friends who have just found new jobs,
and I think that is you know, they're thinking, oh,
I'm just grateful that I've gotten an offer, and so

(54:45):
I think that that's kind of where we're at. Two
people are just like, just be grateful that you even
got an offer, right when we're in a world that
has no money for me. The bigger thing is someone
who's been in their job for almost five years and
has not seeing a pay bump. It is still very
very hard.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
We have a comment from one of the listeners, akay
Ore Presician team, and that they asked, like what if
you don't have it keeping offers yet?

Speaker 2 (55:10):
And I and like like, like one one thing I'm
thinking about and I just would love to get by
a back.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
So I think like it's when I've had to do
that done in my job, like like I let my
job know, like hey, I like I'm not I let
my management know I'm not looking for the jobs. Like
I love where I do I love where I'm at,
and and I know that I'm not the level that
I another level that I could be at, and so

(55:37):
where are the ways in which I could get to
that level?

Speaker 2 (55:40):
How can we get there together?

Speaker 3 (55:42):
No, no, when you're know when your fiscal year is
right like no, no, no when the fiscal year ends,
because you want you want to get ahead a few
months before too many spot my budgets are being done
to say.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Hey girl, let's make sure the budget includes my little
bump and salary.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
You know, I think, like I don't think you always
have to And as mint Man said, it's a case
you don't have to be in offers either, like especially
if you trust with like with your manager or the
people the people that that you work with, like it's
it's it's probably an ongoing conversation like yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Love you know, I love what I do here.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
You know you know I do great work right Like Also,
as many said, you also got to make sure that
you really like that that like that that you come correct, Like,
I know I do excellent work at my job.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
So when I go and when I went to my
bosses and said, hey, I know I do great work.
I know y'all love me.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
I love being here, and I know that the cost
of living is a lot. How can you know if yeah,
if you if you, if you're nonprofit, check your nine
nineties you're like, hey, I know that because the nineties
often they'll put the top owners over one hundred thousand,
the top hundred owners of over one hundred k on your.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Nine to ninety forms.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
If if you're like if you're a team of like ten,
people are like, hey, happy y'all making one twenty year more?
You know, I you know I have pete that you
have great salaries. I'm so happy that you again pay
what you deserve. That's so amazing in this sprey of equity.
I also love to get paid what I deserve too,
and I would love to know what you know, how
I can get there as well. Obviously, if you're not

(57:13):
a nonprofit, you may not have access to that kind
type of information. Some some places do with they're like companies,
some places do. That's just the info, you know, but
like like like really like knowing all their mission, knowing
what like what is that you make, what's what's possibly
the pay disparity between you and other people? Just also
why I say, like talk about without with with your coworkers,
Like I've had coworkers where we've talked about what our

(57:35):
salaries are and we've been like, oh, like like you
make less than this person, or I make less than
this person. This person not like and we like we
or or talk people in the same role as you
in other places like no in this role. You know,
as as Man said, do your market research and those
are all great tools to come up to the negotiating

(57:55):
plate with your like with your managers and teams and stuff.
All right, fam, Well, this has been such a thrilling conversation.
We got so much to think and talk about, and
hopefully y'all as listeners and even us as the ones
having the conversation have a lot to learn and work
with and how to get more. Okay, we gotta take

(58:15):
one more break. When we come back, we'll get we'll
be here with y'all's favorite segment, No Man PAMs more
in just a second.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
All right, y'all, So this week we are jumping into
our guest ma'ams and I know Man PAMs and mine
is just very very simple. I see yours Jordan in
lol to what you have for your yes ma'am's and
your no MAM's that is funny. So for me, I'm
just simply mine are very very simple. This this week,
I am for my guest, ma'am. I am sending all

(58:52):
of my yes, ma'am. Is not what happened to Little
nas X. I am very much in the mind of
I'm just I'm very much in love with the way
that everyone is showing love to Little naz X and
I too, even though their music is not for me.
It's not for me, babes. I am very much in
the mind that you can still love someone and their
their creativity and their art even if it's not for you.

(59:14):
And I'm just very very happy to see that people
are loving Little naz X the way that they deserve.
So yes, thank I'm so thankful to that now. My
nomn Pam. We were just talking about this off the record,
the economy. Just I'm gonna do my best not to
fall into a rant. I will say this, it is

(59:36):
extremely frustrating. I'm in a place right now where I'm
extremely frustrated and I'm trying not to let it get
the best of me. Where it's like and I've maybe
talked about this in the past. But it's like, you've
done everything that the world has told you to do,
and you've played quote unquote, you've played the game.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
So I went to school for almost twelve years, put
myself in a lot of debt over going the school.
I have all of this experience. I've done all of
these things. I've released a book, our podcast has won awards.
There's all these things that we have done, and now
we're being told, oh, there are no jobs, there's no opportunity.
And oddly enough, I'm still seeing people get hired for things,

(01:00:14):
but it's not us getting hired for things. So maybe
we'e I'm pack that later down the line, but I
will just say I'm very frustrated in this day and
age with the idea that I have the experience I have.
I have all of the things that the world has
told me I'm supposed to have, and I still don't
feel like I make what I'm supposed to be making.
And it's just extremely frustrating. So I'm just gonna chop

(01:00:37):
that up to the economy. But I'm also in the
mind of I don't I don't really, you know, and
and I hate that I'm in this place but it's like,
you know, even my husband, he's been like, are you
afraid that your boss and your coworkers are going to
find out that you're talking so openly about wanting a
new job? And it's like, no, I No, I don't
care if other people at my current job know that

(01:00:58):
I'm currently searching. I'm going to play stuff. I'm not
being paid when I'm supposed to be paid for what
I do and for the expertise I bring to the
job that I do, and I don't think that it's fair.
And so I'm saying very much openly on the mic
that there are a lot of people who are being
very underpaid because of their because of them doing good work,

(01:01:19):
and I hate that. Worring a free little nausis that's funny.
I just I'm you know, you gotta laugh to keep
from crying. But I'm just in this very frustrated state
feeling like I can't get out of the situation that
I'm currently in. So the economy is going to be
the thing that I point at. Anyway, what are your yes,

(01:01:40):
ma'ms and your no mams for this week? Mandy, Oh, well,
this is my first ever. This is not just like
a casual week for me.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
I don't know if I'm ever going to get to
come back and do another no mam, Yes ma'am, Yeah,
and you will. All I have to say is I'm
very proud of you for saying that out loud. I
also think you need to flip it and instead of
like saying you're underpaid, start telling people so they can
help you your listeners. Start telling folks what it is
that you do so you can get another opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
There, So people love underpaying us for jobs that are
for us and for like in that you know, we're
giving back and we're supporting love my yes, ma'am. This week,
I'm gonna say almost wrote my no ma'am, no ma'am
to talking about your friends on podcasts and on the internet,
and yes ma'am to Nicolandria Hive because Nicolandria Hive.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
I don't know if you guys, I don't, but I'm familiar.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
I I don't want to talk about any of the
other things that are happening right now, so I'm going
to keep it cute and just say yes ma'am to
Nicolandria and no ma'am to everyone who's hating them, and
want and hate love.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
At a time like this, I have a question. All
of the is all of the hooton and holler and
that's happening right now in the last day or so.
Is that connected to like the is it two different seasons?
Is it? Or is it all connected? Is it the
same thing? I don't know what's happening. I just know

(01:03:12):
there's a lot of a lot of people are talking
about something, but I don't know what it is because
I'm not engaged.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
I would say at this point, not worth your time.
Don't get in tad. I'm not I have no have
been invested since the beginning of the summer. I need
a little bit of an outlet. But I just love love,
and I also love a black woman, a dark skinned
black woman who is securing the bag and a man
who supports her. And I just it's that beautiful black
girl and that white boy right the landry.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Everybody's talking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Yes, I don't know, I know any of their names.

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
Yeah, all you got to know is that it's a
woman who America has tried to tear down, lift up,
and bring down, and you know, and I just I
really love to see her come out of that situation
and be so smart and so business savvy and be
setting up all these multiple revenue streams and really still
knowing her worth despite all the hate and all the

(01:04:06):
racism and sexism of it all. And that's always for
me going to be a hell. Yes, ma'am, I think
our biggest I could talk about anything, I could talk about,
you know, what's happening in Palestine. I could talk about
the fact that there was another school shooting yesterday, and
I have, and there's there's so much wrong. But the
thing that is so beautiful about the space that y'all

(01:04:27):
have created and I've created with Brown Ambition, is that
I always have a space and a place I can
come to like celebrate us and to celebrate you know,
the goods that is happening in our communities. And so, yeah,
it may sound maybe I started it off a little silly.
It's like love Island, It's all that, But nah Alandria
Karthen is that girl, and she is I just want

(01:04:48):
to know, let y'all know, y'all need to keep.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Your eye on her.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
And if you're looking for inspiration for especially what you
were talking about, Professor, about how we are undervalued and
how do you how do you get up and keep
going when you're undervalued? And how do you find that confidence?
This girl everybody has undervalued her her whole life, but
she nevers she's never undervalued herself. And we are seeing

(01:05:12):
the manifestation of what happens when a woman bets on
herself and and keeps it going even in spite of
all of that hate.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
And I just I love that. I absolutely love that.
What a moment. All right, Joho, what are your guest ma'ms?
And no mams for this week?

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
So so my yes, ma'am's. It's just silly. It's just
Cardiby on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Trial was not funny, but it's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
We said, we were, you know, we were talking about
Cardi b in not great ways, but this trial, the
trial funny because of the question, Like I will say this,
the way she was going on trial, it is the
way I think I was on trial because they were.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
Every time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
It's just it's just like, what is happening?

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
It was multiple trials, so what what Okay, we don't
have but I'm like, what the fuck is even this?

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
She's on trial because when she were pregnant in twenty eighteen,
she had went to the the O G I M
and the parent was an altercation with his Kurity Garden
at the ogyn and so assuing her allegedly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Now Cardi Cardi allegends that there was no actual altercation
between them, but so.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Someone someone allegid I don't know who said what, but
leg work but so but like but so like it's
like but par they're saying, right, is that is that
like Cardi like beat her ash or like attached her right,
and so Cardi is this thing is like I were
pregnant and the procesctor was like, well, like, what do
you do when you're pregnant?

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
And She's like, bitch, I'm pregnant. What do you think
I do want I'm pregnant. And every time I was laughing, like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
And then and then she and then she was like hello,
and then and then and then the was like hello,
I'm here, and she's and I'm like, bruh, you do
not you don't speak her language that you don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
He's not girl.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
I love I love that she is herself no matter what,
always even in her even when she says, since are
fucked up, Like one thing you can say is that
she's not who she's not who she says she is.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
But he's so funny. I hate it, but she's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
I live, I live, I live, So you're sad hand
of that and no, man, Pam is two things. When
is our take on Little nas X? Because like and
like there's so much around.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
It, Like I like, I don't really know what happened,
like right, like like I don't think we really know
what happened. A lot of people are like, like the
news was odein and everyone's like freaking out about that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
I love that. So many people.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
The comments are like, y'all have not hung out with
y'all have not hung out with a gay but at
two am, at two am and and before lay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
His behavior but I saw the videos. His behavior to
me was actually not that wild.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
I was like, this is my friends on a Saturday
evening after doing poppers like it should.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Like just you know, damn good to body I was
by was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Underwear and a little ziper. I was like, okay in
the little white boots, I said. I said, no, no,
you cannot say.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
You cannot say my boot is on some ship because
they knew what they were doing when they came out
in the white ties and the white boots.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
They said, I'm cohesive.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
So I was just like, you got to coordinate.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
You gotta co coordinated.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
If you have if you had coordinate, if you had
the wherewithal to coordinate, you're good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
You're good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
And so I think you know, like, like I I
appreciate people are bringing up conversations like black mental health,
that's really important, but like I want to be careful
of like I don't want to make it about things
that isn't until we actually know the full story, right,
and so like right, like like like let the please
please please, like let's not let's just not make things
about make things about other things when like we don't

(01:09:07):
know the full story that two. Synor Williams, I'm so
sad to say this. I'm like, so it hurts my
it hurts me to say this. But Serena Williams taking
GP one. Yeah, and I want everyone to feel I
want everyone to feel like, do what you want to
do for your own body and your own weight. I
my struggle is that you have arguably the best athlete

(01:09:29):
of all time in the world saying I still need
to lose weight, and that to me is just like
what right, like like like it'd be one thing that
the conversation was that was about bloodsticker. The conversation was
about like die by complications, right, But but like the
messaging was, I need to lose thirty pounds and so
I took GP one to have those thirty pounds and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Like it just it just it makes me sucks.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
I think to the messaging one is like you can
be athlete all you want and you still gotta take
this like like like like like like her like her
beautiful body, right, It's not it's not gonna be something
like thin some like thin tiny body like like you
have a like your body is built like like you
have so you have so much muscle on you and

(01:10:15):
that like like like and that's still like that still
is enough like like a define like to define beauty
for yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Like I think I just I struggle a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
I've been struggling with that makes you sad because I'm
like you're like like you're all your choice. You you
do what you want to do for your health, and
like if it's actually for your health, but like I
have a heart, I just have a hard time believing
in seeing that one of the world's best, if not
the world's best athlete in the world still like it's
like it still has to take zempic we go.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
It's yeah, the game of what if. If If Serena
Williams is having to say I gotta take a d P.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
One of these people will say, there's no hope. Where's
the Yeah, where's the hope for me?

Speaker 4 (01:10:56):
You know, that's what she wants because it's her man's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Because it's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Money, because because I'm just like, what.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Like when I saw I said, girl, you cannot you
cannot tell me that, you what, There's no fucking way, Like,
it's just it just it makes me, it makes me sign.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
But again, also it's money, right if they can, if
they can, you know, with Serena, and that's what I've
had to cut. Like that's the thing I've kind of
I've come to like accept that the regression of folks
wanting to go back to the thin is in and
take this thing and lose the weight and all that.
It's it's a money maker. It's it's a way if

(01:11:40):
we can keep reminding people that their body is not perfect, right,
it's just gonna keep it's gonna keep the money coming in.
And that's what it is. People are like, we're regressing it.
It's like, no, we're not regressing. What people are focusing on.
It's capitalism. Folks are in the mind of if we
can get people to keep thinking that their body is
never going to be perfect and g O p ones

(01:12:01):
is going to be the only way for them to
keep their body quote unquote perfect, then that's money in
people's pocket. So it's a marketing ploy. It's all marketing.
And I hate that we're here, but you know, it
is what it is. To the girls who are taking
you know, their ol ZMP shots like me for their
blood sugar, to keep their blood sugar under control. Shout
out to y'all. It's not easy to keep telling people

(01:12:23):
it works. Medicine works for the right reasons. But also
we need to also be having longer and deeper conversations
about the mentality of of of of quick fixes, things
that don't eat. Just just love your body. Just love

(01:12:44):
your body. That's really all it is, honey, Just love
your body, please do that's the message.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Too many of us were raised by mothers who didn't
and so like hard maybe the next generation was being
raised by a white mom in the South, like, girl,
what is the most weight?

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
You know, get surprised at.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
The end of the summer and mean, you want to
go to the gym. Your thighs are already big enough?

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Like, yeah, I gotta.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
It's hard to learn to love yourself that this generation
and the next the kid, the babies that way about Olympia.
Is Olympia gonna love herself?

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
Okay is a good mom. I think she'll say it
in the right way. We just got to, like I think,
be good examples for the chief.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
We have to for the babies. We got to. But
that being said, this episode has been so full of
so many amazing gems and I'm just so grateful Maddy
for you being here. For those of you who want
to send your thoughts to your feedback, you can send
us an email over at blackfatfempod at gmail dot com.
We love getting your feedback. We love hearing from you
all listeners, and we know that they're like I said,

(01:13:50):
there was just a wealth you see what I did.
There a wealth of knowledge in this episode, and so
we're just so grateful. We would love to hear from you,
and we want to hear your feedback. But that being said,
you can also visit us online by interacting with our
posts on Instagram and Blue Skies and Threads, and also
down to the youtubes by using the handle Blackfatfilm Pod Mandy.

(01:14:10):
Where can the dolls find you?

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
Well, I hope the dolls will come listen to Brand Ambition.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
I hope y'all will come.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
I'd love to have y'all on. It's good time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
I'd love to be yes a busy schedules.

Speaker 4 (01:14:23):
Make sure my husband's not here making noise. I love
to have you all on. But Brand Ambition we air.
We have three episodes per week, so you can catch
us on Wednesday, Friday and Sundays. You can also go
if you were more interested in like the career coaching
offerings that I have and negotiation coaching and go to
Mandy Money and it's Mandy with an I mandymoney dot

(01:14:44):
com and check out all my my essentials there. And
I have a couple of spots left in my VIP
one on one coaching. I have like a very few
clients that I work with one on one, So you
want to apply for that. You can find that application
at mandymoney dot com as well. And yeah, I'm just
gonna be out here in these streets fighting for us,
making sure we earn our wealth and such a flood.

(01:15:04):
Thanks for sharing space with me and I just adore
all y'all are doing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
And thank you baby. We love that. We love to
have you here. Queen Joe Ho working the dolls. Find
you this weekend, love you this every week.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
You can find me and Johjo Danael's across all socials,
my mom say John Nies dot comm If not there,
you can find me staring at the blank page before
me and open up the dirty window. So the sun
coulinated the words I cannot find okay, reaching for steping
in a distance.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
So yeah, almost tasted releasing my ambitions my skin.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
And it is raining in San Diego today, so yeah,
you can't go out and the rain on your skin. Yes,
release your business.

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
That's a good hype song before you negotiate, no life.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Yeah yeah, the rest is still unwritten on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
My college, have my money more money?

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Yes, yes, yes, the rest is still unwritten. Uh as
for me and and mine, you can find me down
to theww dot doctor John Paul dot com tour. I
did want to say quickly shout out to uh Nafa.
I was hanging literally Nafa uh tigris everybody down to uh.

(01:16:18):
Just this past weekend we were up in sand uh San,
France slash Oakland area. We were in Alameda at Books Inc.
And we got a chance to talk about our books
and the work that we're doing around trying to keep
this world from being locked into their way, and it
was just such a beautiful, such a beautiful experience, So
thank you to everybody who came out for that. But
with that being said, you can also find me in

(01:16:39):
socials at Doctor John Paul. You can go buy my book.
That's one way you can also keep keep some money
in some some folks pockets is making sure you buy
my book. And if you want to see my ABC spot,
I'm just gonna keep plugging that because I am so
proud of it. It's our America who I meant to be,
where I get to celebrate this show and the work
that we're doing around black fat fems throughout the countries.

(01:17:00):
So I'm just very very grateful for that. And other
than that, you can catch me making my way downtown,
walking fast faces past as I'm home bound, staring blankly Hadley,
making my way through the crowd. Yes, yes, So with

(01:17:20):
that being said, we want to thank our super producers
Joey Pat and Bei Wang for handling all of the logistics,
and everyone down to iHeartMedia who keeps the show up
and running. We also want to thank our wonderful editor
Chris Rogers because without him, we would have no audio
and we would have no visuals for the tubes of you.
With that being said, please stay black, fat famine fabulous,

(01:17:40):
and remember what joho.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
We may not be a cup of tea girl, but
it's PSL seasons. Get yourself some pumpkins, spots lot to
get together.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Okay, yes, yeah, yes, yes, As I wrap myself in
my fall gowns, yes, and I put on my boots
and I tipped down the streets like Taylor Swift, being
basic in all its grandiosity. But that being said, I
love us for real. We'll see you next week. Bye y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Bye,

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