February 6, 2024 • 43 mins
Joe Biden secured a victory in the Democratic primary in 2020 after Rep. Jim Clyburn threw his support, and that of his Black constituents in South Carolina, behind the candidate. Black voters – and young Black voters in particular – appear to be much less enthusiastic about Biden these days. They’re the most unenthusiastic they’ve been about a Democratic president in decades. Republicans have also intentionally thrown roadblocks in front of efforts to mobilize the full power of the Black vote: think gerrymandering, voter ID laws and the like. Nia-Malika Henderson is a political columnist for Bloomberg Opinion.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Crash Course, the podcast about business, political, and
social disruption and what we can learn from it. I'm
Tim O'Brien. Today's Crash Course. Black voters versus the twenty
twenty four election. When last we visited, we talked about
the central role Latina voters could play in the twenty
twenty four election. The same, of course, is true of
(00:23):
the black community. Joe Biden secured a victory in the
Democratic primary in twenty twenty after Representative Jim Clyburn through
his support and that of his black constituents in South
Carolina behind the candidate. Biden went on to take the
presidency away from Donald Trump, and the pair now seems
headed for a rematch. Black voters and young black voters
(00:45):
in particular, appear to be much less enthusiastic about Biden
these days. They're the most unenthusiastic they've been about a
Democratic president in decades. Multiple polls suggest as much. Some
of this is due to the Democratic Party deploying policy
drive bys during elections. Promises made are too frequently unkept.
(01:06):
Black voters, who represent more than twelve percent of total
eligible voters in the US, have come to expect it
Republicans have also intentionally thrown roadblocks in front of efforts
to mobilize the full power of the black vote. Think
jerry mandering, voter id laws, and the like. Most local
legislatures won't be addressing it anytime soon, and the Supreme
(01:30):
Court has empowered states to do as they please around
voting access. Joining us today is Nia Malika Henderson, a
political columnist for Bloomberg Opinion and a savant when it
comes to decoding the forces royaling the American political landscape.
That was Nia laughing at my description of her, because
she just doesn't apparently know the highest theme in which
(01:53):
I hold her.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
This care will too.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
By the end of this conversation, because she's a smarty Henia.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Hey there, I love that inagury deduction, and I've gotta
I'm gonna let my mom hear this.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I'll record it for her. Yeah, So let's just jump
into it, you know, in a very broad way. What's
at stake for black voters in this election.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, listen, I think if you think about the state
in which African Americans were living under a Trump presidency,
the sort of psychic toll, the emotional toll of living
in a country led by someone who really engages in
(02:32):
the kind of bigotry and race bating that he engaged in,
you know, in the lead up to his election, where
he was talking about Barack Obama and the whole Birtherism thing,
and just the rhetoric he employed throughout his presidency, calling
African nations shithold countries, and any number of incidents that
(02:55):
just showed, I think, to African Americans and listen to
other groups as well, sort of gave a feeling that
Black Americans were other that he was perfectly fine using
race and blackness as a kind of wedge issue. So
that's part of the conversation that I think African Americans
are having, and part of the conversations with somebody like
(03:16):
Jim Kleibern is having too, is he goes around to
African American communities, particularly in South Carolina, and talks to
them about white supremacy, about what it was like to
live in a country that was led by Donald Trump.
So that's sort of the sort of emotional tool that
I think was at play in Trump's administration and is
part of what I think people are calculating as they
(03:38):
think about who they're going to vote for moving forward.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Don't forget. Also, when he was calling majority black countries shitholes,
he was also waking up new names for countries in Africa,
like Nambia, which doesn't exist right, right, And he's never
been very good at like finding things on maps, but yeah,
but he was inventing, you know, African country's whole cloth,
which was yes, I don't think any press has done that.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think that's right. And so you think about the
assaults on democracy, the assaults on freedom, whether it's the
literal assault on democracy that we saw on January sixth,
and just the continued undermining of institutions, and then issues
like abortion, which get it sort of freedom and liberty.
And so if you think about the way in which Biden,
some of his surrogates, somebody like Vice President Harris, is
(04:23):
trying to frame these issues to African American voters, it
is about white supremacy. It is about the economy, it
is about freedom, It is about this idea of do
you want to return to the days of living in
a country led by such an erratic And some people
would obviously say racist president.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, and we'll get into some of those issues, but
I am perplexed given that Trump is an overtly hostile
person to people of color, right, and he doesn't really
hide it, and he's also enabled other people to be
openly hostile. Our civic dialogue has degraded. It's translated into
pow to see positions that I don't think are in
(05:02):
the interests of communities of color. And yet all of
the kind of polling around turnout suggests that a lot
of black voters are thinking of just staying home, that
they're not going to turn out. So you would think
if Trump was that bleak of a prospect, that that
would translate into more enthusiasm for Biden. And there's quite
(05:24):
a bit. I think Iden got ninety two percent of
the black vote in twenty twenty, more or less, and
then Trump got eight percent, and it's still black voters
prefer the Democratic Party. I've got no doubt that Biden
will get a big majority of black voters again. But
it's really important, actually in swing states that black voters engage.
(05:44):
And there appears, I think, and I'm always a little
bit tentative with polls, right, but it appears that there's
this lack of enthusiasm, and I think that that could
actually have a destructive impact on the interests of black
voters if they don't turn out. So why is that,
Why is there lack of enthusiasm?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, listen, I think there was never a huge enthusiasm
for Biden, right, There was always an enthusiasm for kicking
Trump out of office. So we of course remember when
it was finally declared that there was a President Biden,
that he had won, there was dancing in the street, right.
I mean, it was like a dictator had fallen. People
were so kind of relieved to see him lose. And
(06:24):
so you think about the polls now, and I think
about Cornell Belcher, who's this great after American pollster.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I'm sure you're familiar with.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
He is a polster, he does focus groups, but he's
also very mindful of the fact that the campaign has
just begun. Right. Campaigns are built to persuade voters, to
make them enthusiastic, to give them a binary choice, and
that is what's happening now. I talked to some folks
at the Biden campaign, and listen, they are very aware
(06:53):
of what the polls showed.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
They're very aware of what you mentioned, which is that
historically it's been like sols to the polls. You know,
a couple of weeks before November, not a lot of
money put into GOTV efforts, And they're doing something very
differently this go around. They're putting a lot of money
in early and seeing those voters as voters they have
(07:18):
to persuade and mobilize, not just the voters who are
going to automatically show up. I will say this, I
do think that the polling and I hate to be
sort of a polling truther, but the polling has been
really off.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
In terms of African American voters, and off for quite
a while.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah. Like, if you think about the lead up to
twenty twenty to twenty eighteen, there's all these like, oh
my gosh, Republicans are going to get twenty percent of
African American voters, and it just it hasn't really materialized.
I think there obviously has been a shift, very very minimally,
but it is not as much as the polls suggest.
(07:55):
But again, we talk about these swing states, places like Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona,
those margins manager Georgia. Yeah, exactly all of this is
going to matter. But listen it's ramping up now. I'm
actually going to South Carolina in the lead up to
the Democratic primary, where Biden, of course will win. Kamala
(08:18):
Harris will be there. She's going to an HBCU South
Carolina state in Orangeburg, and so it'll be interesting to
see what her message is to those voters in particular, right,
young educated African American voters who have lots of discontent
with Joe Biden. And again, they were never huge Joe
Biden fans, right, there were Obamocrats, right, There is no
(08:41):
parallel to that when it comes to Biden supporters. Older
members of the African American community love Biden. My mom
is one of those folks. She's eighty six, eighty five,
and she'll be pulling the lever for Joe Biden as
well all of her church friends. But then there is
this other, younger, more working class population of African Americans
(09:02):
that have some you know, skepticism, and they're going to
need to be convinced and mobilized.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And you know, you just invoked the secret weapon of
Barack Obama, right, which has not been activated yet by Democrats,
and you know, marching Barack Obama with his myriad gifts
as an orator and a truth teller and a very
unusually charismatic politician. In all those states, maybe he would
(09:28):
campaign with Taylor Swift, and you could just have like
this twin engine, like a jet engine of voter enthusiasm push.
So it'll be interesting to see how and when and
where Obama gets activated, because I can't imagine he won't be.
But I want to come back and even within the
flaw of the polls about the percentage of votes Republicans
(09:49):
might or might not get, that data point concerns me
less than turnout does. And I just want to turn
to this in a second, because I think of twenty sixteen, right, like,
obviously Obama turns out black voters like no candidate has
I think ever, at least since in the post World
War two era. And then in twenty sixteen, you know,
black voters did not really turn out for Hillary Clinton.
(10:10):
And you could pinpoint the states in which that created
tipping points Michigan, Wisconsin, et cetera, et cetera. I was
in both states in twenty twenty talking to black voters,
and one of the things that came up repeatedly in
conversations I had with them is you know, Hillary flew
in here at the last minute, like she didn't come
to Detroit until the last week of October or something
(10:32):
like that, and they all said, we just didn't feel
we felt taken for granted. And in fact, that's how
her campaign ruled. They thought they were going to flip Texas,
Georgia and Florida, and they didn't campaign in Michigan, Wisconsin,
and Pennsylvania. And I just you know, this is possibly
this election this year, the twenty twenty four election will
(10:52):
turn on a knife's edge in terms of pluralities, is
in a handful of states, and so I wonder less
about the total vote going to the Republicans and more
about just people showing up for Democrats.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think it's a huge concern. Democrats obviously mindful of it.
And sort of add to that, you do have Republicans
campaigning for black.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Voters in a way that they haven't before.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I mean, some of it is sort of cynical, and
the ultimate goal is to have black voters stay home
not necessarily vote for Republican candidates, but you do have
some real efforts. I think it was Matt Gates, So
I hate to quote, but here I am said that,
you know, for every maybe college educated white person that
a Republican might lose, they would gain a jamal Or
I think you said.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Jose because he's such a sensitive person.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yes, exactly, and this is true, right. I mean, there
is this resorting of the parties, right, and some of
this is along class lines and some of it is
along racial lines as well. Sort of the sorting, particularly
among Hispanics, is much more noticeable going from the Democratic
Party to the Republican Party. It isn't is noticeable yet
(12:01):
among African Americans, particularly African American working class men. But
that is what's going on. And to me, I mean
sort of the argument that you hear Donald Trump making
is one I think that is in some ways wrapped
up in his masculinity, right, in his strength.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
He gave some speech recently where he was.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Like, you know, a country needs a strong man, and
I think he meant it in both ways, right, and
that does I think resonate with young men, particularly young
working class men, who have also been sort of told
that their masculinity is you know, under assault. That there's
sort of feminization. I mean, listen, if you watch ESPN,
there are all these commercials about this generation of men
(12:41):
having the lowest testosterone ever. I would know, but you know,
those are the kind of messages that I think could
resonate with any number of groups and lead either to
kind of low turnout among those groups who are Democrats,
or actually some of these groups that have traditionally been
voting for Democrats voting for Republicans, particularly Donald Trump, not
(13:01):
necessarily sort of down ballot, but just seeing in Donald
Trump somebody who they admire, the strength, the pretty wife,
the beautiful kids, whatever it is, and obviously a billionaire status, right,
I mean that is all.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Live in the dream exactly, dream, yeah, rolling like he
wants to jet like exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah. And you know, I know you're a hip hop fan, tim,
and Donald Trump was hugely popular in hip hop in
the nineties and in two thousand, just as a symbol
of bling and success and sort of the lavish life.
And so some of that stuff still resonates.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah. Russell Simmons said to me once that he called
Trump the bling, bling white man.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And you know they were welcome at marl Lago and
they'd be in the steam room and Donald show up
with a tray of orange juice. In his red tie
and blue suit, even the steam room. That's not a
subject for our discussion today. Yeah, but you know, it
is interesting that that sector of the black community venerates them.
(14:02):
But I think it's because of celebrity and wealth. Right,
it's not really about politics, right, policy at all, But
it's this image, and I think that has a lot
of attraction with working class white voters too.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
That's exactly right. I mean this kids to the personality,
the cult of personality built up around Donald Trump, which
has been so effective. You know, the idea that he's
a successful millionaire, a billionaire. Excuse me, he's not, even
though he probably is only just a millionaire. But listen,
you know this success of him and sort of the
lavishness and the gold toilets and the supermodel wife who
(14:35):
isn't really a supermodel, nor does she speak seven languages,
but never mind.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And she's an immigrant, by the way, which is point
out he married an immigrant. Yes, yes, and some of
them are nice people. But on this issue again of
turn out. You know, just in the statistics, black voters
about twelve percent of eligible voters in twenty twenty, they
maybe fourteen percent and twenty four white voters are about
sixty eight percent of eligible voters, but end up being
(15:03):
seventy five percent of the voters who cast balance. Those
numbers are always so fascinating to me because they speak
to people's sense of how their vote empowers them or not.
It sometimes pains me to see that the black community
doesn't have as much faith in the power of their
(15:25):
vote as clearly the white community does. I think we
know the reasons for some of those things, but it's
undoubtedly at work in this election too.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think that's right. You think back to two thousand
and eight and all of the joy and pride among
African Americans that the country had elected a black man,
a black man named Barack who say Obama, And there
was a lot of hope, right. There was some just
silly hope about, you know, a post racial America, but
(15:55):
then there was real hope about conditions in black communities
being changed because of Obama being in office. And I
think you look around and that didn't really happen, right,
And even I think some of the discontent among say
thirty something black folks forty something black folks, there is
(16:16):
kind of looking back at Barack Obama with some disappointment, right,
that we put so much, African Americans will say into
having him in office, but what do we get in return?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And so then Hillary comes and obviously Trump gets in office,
and then Biden and there's obviously some discontent, specific discontent
right about promises not met, whether it's around voting rights
or student loans. So, you know, and now I think
a real sort of animating conversation for this group of voters,
(16:52):
young African Americans is what's going on with the Palestinians
and the idea. You know, Joe Biden has gone to
some events and there will be people and some of
these are African Americans who are standing upholding signs and
calling him genocide Joe. So this is a a real
kind of animating force and animating conversation that's going on,
(17:14):
and not in a good way for Joe Biden's re
election prospects among young African Americans.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
On that note, I want to take a quick break
so we can hear from our sponsor, and then we
will come right back to this conversation. I'm back with
Nia Malika Henderson, a political columnist with Bloomberg Opinion. Nia,
we were just talking about black voters disappointment with Biden,
(17:42):
and I wanted to just dig into some of the
highlight policy issues, the things that are most important to
the black community, and from a policy perspective, the things
that are fueling some of their disappointment. Voting rights and
the enforcement of voting rights and the access to the
voting booth seems to me to be something well worth
(18:03):
focusing on in this But you can dissuade me if
it's not.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
No, I think that's right. This is something that Joe
Biden campaigned on. This is something that people believed that
a needed to get done and could get done right,
particularly in the aftermath of George Floyd. Right, you remember
those sort of hidy days of the racial recogning and
this idea that the country and companies wanted to get
(18:28):
right in terms of race, and so what happened.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
For police reform.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I think that's exactly right. And so there were conversations
around that. But one of the big hopes around that
was that there would be some sort of voting rights bill.
So there was one that went to senate, it past
the House and it failed, right, it failed.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And there was also the John L.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Lewis Voting yeah, there were two separate ones, right, and
ultimately failed because Democrats. Two Democrats in particular who I
don't think will be in the Senate going forward, Christen
Cinema and Joe Manchin.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
They were too, they really democrats, right.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so you know, there's an
idea that maybe they could scuttle the philibuster just for
this bill to pass, and it turns out that they
didn't want to do that. And of course we know
the philibuster has been used to scuttle lots of civil
rights legislation historically. That's sort of the point of it. Yes,
and so that history repeating itself. So sure, there's that
(19:27):
lack of movement on that. And listen, you're gonna hear
from Biden on this again, right, You're going to hear
from Kamala Harris on this again. I'm sure when there's
another anniversary of the Bloody Sunday in March, right, they'll
make a big deal about pushing for this and voting rights.
But the fact of the matter is it didn't get done.
Nothing really has been done on police reform.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Voting rights. Yeah, black community blame the Biden White House
for not getting legislation through a Senate that has repeatedly
torpedoed any legislation that would be helpful to Biden politically.
We're in the middle of this right now. In immigration,
a bipartisan tax bill didn't get through Chuck Grassley and
I owe Republicans said, yeah, might be a good bill,
(20:13):
but it would help Biden in the election. So reason
to do this? Yeah? Yeah? And and voting rights. Are
black voters seeing past the fact and maybe the answer
to this is obvious, but are they seeing past the
fact that this is something they do and should care
deeply about, and the fact that the White House might
be sort of handcuffed because they have a racalcia tren Congress.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Right, you know, listen, I think sure, I mean, I
think there is some recognition that there is a huge
roadblock in the Republican Party in terms of advancing any
number of you know, democratic causes, progressive causes. And that'll
be part of what Biden talks about, right, and Harris
talks about when they go before these audiences, when they
talk about abortion, for instance, the idea that they need
(20:59):
a more democratic House and democratic Senate, so send more
Democrats and he can get things done. But there is
I think, and this isn't specific to the Black community.
I think there is a sense among average voters that
presidents are sort of all powerful, right. It is the
office that most people are familiar with. They don't necessarily
(21:21):
pay attention to who their local congress person is or
their senators. But there is a sense, I think among
just average voters that presidents, through their power of persuasion
and we voted for you, that you should be able
to deliver on these issues, and if you don't, it
is demoralizing. It could be a failing on your part,
and it could mean that we stay home because I
(21:43):
haven't seen.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Any deliverables for giving you my vote.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
So you know, this is a conversation that is going
to have to be had in all sorts of ways,
sort of the traditional ways of campaigning, but then on
Facebook and TikTok and the Gram and all of those
social media platforms and the View and Charlemagne the God
places like that where we're African Americans, particularly young African Americans,
are very tuned into those sites and those folks.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
He wrote a great column about Nikki Haley and her
effort to sort of I guess disappear slavery as a
factor in the Civil War. We are in the midst
of this, I think, literal whitewashing of African American history
and the Civil War perpetrated by the Republicans and the
right for political reasons, and white supremacy, white nationalism, racism,
(22:35):
and discrimination are also a paramount issue for the black community.
Do black voters see Biden in light of all of that,
acting as a you know, an agent of change and protection?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
You know, listen, I'm just going to be blunt here.
Biden is eighty one. I think she isn't someone I
think that average Black people, average people right looked to
as a pillar of strength. He's older, and some of
that is literally his age, and some of that is
probably just the burdens of the presidency and grief, quite frankly,
(23:10):
because he's had so many losses in his life. I
definitely think to a certain segment of African Americans, older
African Americans, sort of the church going set of African Americans,
they see by not necessarily as a sort of protector,
but as a good, decent human being. And that sort
(23:30):
of sounds, you know, not like high praise, but it
is high praise to just ordinary folks that he just
has a core goodness to him and a decency. You know,
there is a video that's circulating online now of him
comforting one of the families of one of the soldiers
that was just killed, and this was a black family
(23:51):
in Georgia, I believe, And just the humanity and the
connection and the sense of heart and under standing in
empathy that he displays almost more than any politician I
can think of in recent history. It's almost pastoral. I
think that goes a long way with African Americans. It
(24:12):
isn't that he's going to sort of stand between Donald Trump,
stand between the racists and protect African Americans, but there
is a sense I think that African Americans do feel
like his heart is in the right place, that he
understands African Americans and that he's on the side of
African Americans. And he's trying to go to South Carolina
and say you had my back back in twenty twenty,
(24:35):
and I'm going to have your back as well. So
I do think that goes a long way. And also
I think they're going to remind people that he was
Obama's vice president, right he was loyal to Obama. I
remember in twenty twenty hearing so many black people talk
about that, right, the idea that here he was the
right hand man to America's first black president, and it
(24:58):
was you were loyal to Obama. We're going to stand
by you and be loyal to you, Joe Biden. So
list before I came on with you today, I was thinking,
you know, maybe they should give some sort of joint
care of view in sixty minutes, right, it's sort.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Of a you know, I'm sure they will do something
or joint appearances. It's just I think that's a strength
they both can play to. And he was a model
vice president for Obama. You know, he filled the role
the way you'd want a vice president to fill it.
They I think developed a friendship unexpectedly during that presidency
because there was hostility in the beginning. You know, one
(25:30):
other sort of broad category, and I think of this
as you know, a democratic problem more generally and not
Biden specifically, but is you know the idea of broad
investment in black communities, whether it's education or infrastructure or
small business loans, healthcare, an array of different investments that
will make communities independent and thriving. And when I sometimes
(25:53):
think of this issue of promises broken or promises not kept,
it is the historical legacy of the Democrats that they
had tried to deliver some of those solutions to black communities.
And is that a thing that hangs over this as
well for the black community or do you think there's
other things that are front of mind for black.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Voters, meaning the failure to deliver or at least this
sort of effort to deliver. I think that's right. I
think that's yes. And this will also be a way
that I think Republicans will try to dissuade black people
from voting or actually have Black people vote for Republicans.
The idea that listen, you've been giving your votes to
(26:30):
Democrats for all these generations in many ways, and what
have they done. What do your schools look like, what
do your communities look like? There's still under investment in
education and infrastructure, And so I think, yes, that is
something that you hear. But then I think there's a
(26:50):
choice here, Right, Democrats say they want to do better,
Oftentimes they can't for any number of reasons. Often that
is Republicans being obstructionists, and then they're Republicans, right, who
don't even really have any ideas for improvement and investment
in these African American communities. What does Biden always say,
(27:10):
don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative.
And so I think that's the argument they'll make. But
listen again, I think it goes back to some of
that discontent around Obama. There's so much hope invested in Obama,
so much hope invested in Joe Biden, and then when
you get down to it, materially, a lot of these
(27:31):
communities haven't changed, even though listen at, the unemployment rate
is record low among African Americans, child poverty is on
the decline, more investments in HBCUs, so they do have
something to talk about, and listen. I live in a
fairly diverse, working class ish area in Washington, DC. Yeah,
and sometimes I'm like, you know, I go into Marshalls
(27:53):
and Target. It's packed, right, It's packed with folks who
are buying all sorts of things they don't need, particularly
from Marshalls. And I do think there is a sense
that and you see some of this in the consumer
confidence number, is that the economy is people are starting
to sort of feel it and that it's better than
they thought, and so those things I think will matter
as well.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
All right, let's take another quick break right there, Nia,
and then we will come back and continue this very
interesting conversation. I'm back in having a great conversation with
Nia Malika Henderson, a political columnist with Bloomberg Opinion. We're
talking about black voters and the twenty twenty four election.
(28:33):
I wanted to talk about mobilizing. We've touched on it
on and off. I was intrigued both by Ohio and
Virginia this year, where similar you know, there were differences,
but issues came up before voters around abortion, access to
reproductive healthcare, reproductive rights. Governors of both of those states
(28:54):
were trying to impose much more restrictive measures around abortion,
and black votevoters got busy and they really got activated
around that issue. And we're pivotal in both states and
not only turning back those policies, but in Virginia's case,
actually establishing a majority in the state legislature. Clearly people
(29:16):
were paying attention to the issue. Clearly people got around
those voters and made it happen. And it does offer
an example of what can be done at this microcosmic
local level with the right issue and the right organization,
and you get both great policy results and you get
a good political outcome if you're a Democrat. Is that
something that Democrats could mobilize nationally between now in November,
(29:39):
finding those themes and turning the voters out.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah. And obviously abortion is going to be a huge issue.
You have Kamala Harris taking the lead on that, framing
it as a matter of rights and freedom and equality.
And we've seen every time it's either sort of the
pro choice or pro life movement in these different states.
In some red states as you mentioned Ohio for instance,
(30:04):
the pro choice side has won. So you've got some
efforts by Democratic activists, women's rights activists trying to put
some of these ballot measures in states to galvanize voters.
You know, Democrats didn't want to talk about abortion for
years and years and years, and now they found their
voice on it. A lot of that has to do
with Kama Harris, as I mentioned, and just this idea,
(30:27):
you know, she gave a speech two weeks ago, this
idea that who do these people think they are right?
There's a kind of anger and righteous indignation. I think
that African Americans women in particular, feel this idea that
America now is less free because of the fall of
Row and some of these states that have very restrictive
(30:48):
abortion laws anti abortion laws, that America is less free
now than it was in the Roe v. Wade era. So,
you know, you look at that, and I think for
African Americans who have been on the front lines expanding rights,
this idea that you're going backwards in terms of the
kind of rights in Americans enjoy. It is an issue
(31:09):
that I think is going to come up a lot,
and it will be effective for Democrats to argue around that,
and I think it's going to be the centerpiece of
what Democrats do in terms of mobilizing voters.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know, in the context of all that, I just
want to like briefly touch on your own journey, because
I find it both I'll embarrass you, but I find
it both admirable and inspiring. Your native of South Carolina.
You went to Duke, you graduated cum laude, You got
graduate degrees from Yale and Columbia, and then a string
of high profile journalism jobs Politico, The Washington Post, CNN,
(31:42):
and now you're stuck with me, and you wrote, I'll
embarrass you further by reading your own words to you.
But you wrote a beautiful column about Black History Month.
And you're also a mother, I should add, because that's
relevant to that. You know, you're a successful black woman,
you're a successful mother, you're a successful professional in a
world that can line up against that in so many
different ways. And you're writing about the relevancy and utility
(32:05):
of Black History Month, and you wrote across the country
at colleges and corporations, diversity and inclusion initiatives are being targeted,
as are black academics. Black books are among the most banned.
The post George Floyd racial reckoning faced a huge backlash
and never quite materialized for any sustained period of time. Sure,
(32:26):
there are now bandages that match the skin of black people.
Imagine that. And Auntchemima and Uncle Ben are no more.
But is that all? And then you go on in
this very poignant, beautifully written column to talk about, well,
you look at your daughter and you look at her
world compared to yours, and that there's things in her
world you didn't have growing up, and you had things
(32:47):
your mother didn't have, and you have some optimism baked
into that. I wonder do you think that that optimism
translates into the political process for enough Black voters these days.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That's an excellent question, listen. I think optimism is at
the core of the African American experience, right, this imagining
of a world that didn't exist and fighting for that world.
You know, it's our heritage. I mean, I grew up
with parents who my father in particular, as a young man,
(33:20):
marched with doctor King. It wasn't you know, there were
a series of marches around Bloody Sunday. I think there
were three up together. He was at the second one.
So on Martin Luther King Day, I was able to
show my daughter a picture of her grandfather, who is
no longer with us, standing on the steps of Brown
Am Chapel with Martin Luther King sort of over his shoulder.
(33:41):
And I'm also, obviously, I'm a woman, I'm black. I'm
also a lesbian, right and so to see the trajectory
of the country go from being very hostile to same
sex marriage to myself being married to a woman and
having a beautiful daughter, I am definitely somebody who I'm
a prisoner of hope for lack of a better phrase,
(34:02):
and sometimes I feel, you know, naive. After I wrote
that column, I was sort of thinking of my academic
friends that were like, Oh, they're going to read this
and be like, Oh, she's very naive. But in so
many ways, I kind of wrote that for my mom,
right somebody who she was born in nineteen thirty eight.
She was born in Chicago, saw the civil rights movement,
Women's rights movement, had four kids, and really tried to
(34:25):
create a black world right and black pride in her
kids and did it in the best way she could,
but she also wanted it for my friends and neighbors
who lived in houses nearby. And the black books she
had she would often go and read to kids at school.
And so now here I am very easily being able
to kind of cultivate a black life for my kid
(34:49):
with black books and the Black History Museum, which she's
gone to a couple of times already, and black dolls
and black panther And it really is amazing to see
that that kind of journey just in my own life.
And partly I think we have to be optimistic to
honor people who have fought for where we are now
right to sort of discount the progress is to discount
(35:13):
the movement, discount the activists who pushed for this reality
we live in now.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Are things perfect? Absolutely not. Is there more work to
be done? Absolutely? But I myself can just say someone
who is closeted in college and in high school and
who's now living as an openly gay black woman and
working in what is really my dream job?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Tim, I think I told you that.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I'm so happy that it is.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah, you know, this idea in kind of political discourse,
people often kind of think of African Americans as not
being patriotic, right, And often I see black people have
pushed this country to really live up to its ideals, right,
And so in that way, you know, politically, I think
if you're somebody like Joe Biden, you're the Dems, you're
(36:00):
trying to connect that struggle.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
He goes to Mother Emmanuel as one of his first speeches,
where those nine African Americans were killed by white supremacists,
and talks about that history, talks about white supremacy, and
then talks about advancement too, and some of the deliverables
of his administration, and this idea that you know, just
the struggle continues. So listen, we'll see what African Americans
(36:24):
do in terms of coming out to vote. I will
also say this, I think every cycle Life covered it
is the exact same story. Black voters. Are they going
to turn out based? I mean literally even Obama right, Obama,
by the time he was standing for reelection, had come
out for same sex marriage, and all these stories about
is this going to hamper his ability to get African
(36:47):
American voters to turn out for him?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Obviously it did not.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
And so this is listen, if you go back every election,
there is this question, and we'll just see how it
turns out.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
You mentioned Kamala he earlier. You mentioned Biden talking directly
to Black voters and the aspirations and dreams you've had
as a person. And I always think in these elections
about connecting hopes and dreams to the practical battle on
the streets of the hard work of winning votes. And
we could do a whole episode about Kamala Harris, and
I'm going to avoid that here because we'd go on
(37:19):
and on, but only in the context of whether or
not the Democratic Party is good at recruiting, training, and
getting exposure for candidates of color, black candidates or any
candidate of color. And I think one of the mysteries
to me is I think the Republicans are very good
structurally at messaging, recruitment, and talent development. I think some
(37:43):
of the talents they develop have become a freak show,
but that's the direction they chose to do some of
their talent development. But is the Democratic Party structured in
a way now where it is recruiting bright prospects and
getting them the training and exposure they need to be
great candidates.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Assuming you're meaning African American candidates, right, listen. I think
the big barrier to that is America.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
It's sort of the anti blackness that is part of
our heritage as Americans. It is incredibly hard for an
African American mayor in Birmingham, Alabama or Tuskegee, Alabama to
go on and win that state statewide, right because of racism.
Quite frankly, there have been moments I remember post Obama, Gweneifel,
(38:31):
who I'm sure you knew, wrote a great book that
really was this idea that there were going to be
these other candidates in the wake of Obama that would
reach heights in American politics. Kama Harris was one of them.
I think check mark the prediction there was a good one.
But a lot of those folks in that book just
(38:51):
couldn't break through, right, breakthrough from going to Congress to
the House to the Senate, for instance, from a mayoral
position to a higher position. So I don't even know
that it's the Democratic Party's fault. I think the Democratic
Party is faced with the reality that it's just hard
(39:13):
to break through these kind of barriers that limit black
aspiration in other areas. Do the same thing in the
political arena, you know. Now you think about the mayor
or the governor, I should say, of Maryland, Wes Moore,
can he go anywhere? Right beyond that? Is there a
(39:34):
next Obama? For instance? I think that's sort of at
the root of it, right Who is the next Obama?
I wrote a story years ago when I was at
the Washington Post, and the title is something like, who
is the next Obama? Nobody because of just the cynicism
I think around, how do you get a black candidate
(39:55):
who's able to be as gifted as somebody as Obama was,
who can resonate with white voters and black voters and
Latino voters listen. I would amend that now, and I
would say I think one of the most gifted black
politicians on the scene now is Raphael Warnock in Georgia,
the Senator of Georgia, who's able to do this amazing
(40:17):
thing which has become Senator of Georgia over and over again.
And so I think he has this real great combination
of just being able to relate to regular folks of
all stripes in Georgia and then the sort.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Of power of his oration.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
He obviously has a background in divinity and preaching.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
So we'll see in watching this election, this election cycle
this year, what are you learning that you didn't know before?
What has the big aha ben for you?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Thus far?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
I am constantly amazed at how engaged voters are. I mean,
in some ways this sounds like a cliche, but I
think voters are catching all on to the stakes, right,
And I think part of that was what they saw
in twenty sixteen, right. And so you see this sort
of level of engagement with the candidates with policy in
(41:13):
a way that I think always surprises me. And talking
to voters. I did listen to a focus group of
Trump to Biden voters and they had been paying attention
not only to the sort of gaffes of Donald Trump
or Joe Biden, but you know, kind of policy issues, right,
And so I think it's partly because people saw what
happened with Donald Trump. People saw what that meant for
(41:35):
foreign policy, for the Supreme Court, for any number of
policy issues, and so now they're engaged in a way
that they weren't before. I think the Georgia elections also
showed that. And so you know, when I hear people say, oh,
voters might stay home and they're not going to be enthused,
I tend to think they will be. Given the past
(41:56):
couple of elections that we've seen the past few cycles
post to twenty sixteen, you do see I think a
level of engagement and if not enthusiasm, but at least
a recognition that every vote counts, because we've seen many
elections where it's come down to the very very margins,
and I think twenty twenty four is going to be
(42:17):
the exact same way.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
We're out of time. Nia, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Thank you so much, Tim, This was great.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Nia. Malika Henderson is a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. You
can find her columns on the Bloomberg Opinion website and
the Bloomberg Terminal. You can also find her on Twitter
at Nia Malika h Here at crash Course, we believe
that collisions can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising, and always instructive.
(42:45):
In today's crash Course, I learned that there might be
more hope for black turnout in the twenty twenty four
election than I previously believe. But I'm also a cynic,
so I'm going to adopt a weight and see attitude.
What did you learn? We'd love to hear from you.
You can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion handle at Opinion
or me at Tim O'Brien using the hashtag Bloomberg Crash Course.
(43:09):
You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening
right now and leave us a review. It helps more
people find the show. This episode was produced by the
indispensable and highly motivated Ana Mazarakis and me. Our supervising
producer is Magnus Hendrickson, and we had editing help from Sagebauman,
Jeff Grocott, Mike Nizza, and Christine Benden. Bilard Blake Maples
(43:32):
is our sound engineering and our original theme song was
composed by Luis Gara. I'm Tim O'Brien. We'll be back
next week with another crash course.
Welcome to Crash Course, the podcast about business, political, and
social disruption and what we can learn from it. I'm
Tim O'Brien. Today's Crash Course. Black voters versus the twenty
twenty four election. When last we visited, we talked about
the central role Latina voters could play in the twenty
twenty four election. The same, of course, is true of
(00:23):
the black community. Joe Biden secured a victory in the
Democratic primary in twenty twenty after Representative Jim Clyburn through
his support and that of his black constituents in South
Carolina behind the candidate. Biden went on to take the
presidency away from Donald Trump, and the pair now seems
headed for a rematch. Black voters and young black voters
(00:45):
in particular, appear to be much less enthusiastic about Biden
these days. They're the most unenthusiastic they've been about a
Democratic president in decades. Multiple polls suggest as much. Some
of this is due to the Democratic Party deploying policy
drive bys during elections. Promises made are too frequently unkept.
(01:06):
Black voters, who represent more than twelve percent of total
eligible voters in the US, have come to expect it
Republicans have also intentionally thrown roadblocks in front of efforts
to mobilize the full power of the black vote. Think
jerry mandering, voter id laws, and the like. Most local
legislatures won't be addressing it anytime soon, and the Supreme
(01:30):
Court has empowered states to do as they please around
voting access. Joining us today is Nia Malika Henderson, a
political columnist for Bloomberg Opinion and a savant when it
comes to decoding the forces royaling the American political landscape.
That was Nia laughing at my description of her, because
she just doesn't apparently know the highest theme in which
(01:53):
I hold her.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
This care will too.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
By the end of this conversation, because she's a smarty Henia.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Hey there, I love that inagury deduction, and I've gotta
I'm gonna let my mom hear this.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I'll record it for her. Yeah, So let's just jump
into it, you know, in a very broad way. What's
at stake for black voters in this election.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, listen, I think if you think about the state
in which African Americans were living under a Trump presidency,
the sort of psychic toll, the emotional toll of living
in a country led by someone who really engages in
(02:32):
the kind of bigotry and race bating that he engaged in,
you know, in the lead up to his election, where
he was talking about Barack Obama and the whole Birtherism thing,
and just the rhetoric he employed throughout his presidency, calling
African nations shithold countries, and any number of incidents that
(02:55):
just showed, I think, to African Americans and listen to
other groups as well, sort of gave a feeling that
Black Americans were other that he was perfectly fine using
race and blackness as a kind of wedge issue. So
that's part of the conversation that I think African Americans
are having, and part of the conversations with somebody like
(03:16):
Jim Kleibern is having too, is he goes around to
African American communities, particularly in South Carolina, and talks to
them about white supremacy, about what it was like to
live in a country that was led by Donald Trump.
So that's sort of the sort of emotional tool that
I think was at play in Trump's administration and is
part of what I think people are calculating as they
(03:38):
think about who they're going to vote for moving forward.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Don't forget. Also, when he was calling majority black countries shitholes,
he was also waking up new names for countries in Africa,
like Nambia, which doesn't exist right, right, And he's never
been very good at like finding things on maps, but yeah,
but he was inventing, you know, African country's whole cloth,
which was yes, I don't think any press has done that.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think that's right. And so you think about the
assaults on democracy, the assaults on freedom, whether it's the
literal assault on democracy that we saw on January sixth,
and just the continued undermining of institutions, and then issues
like abortion, which get it sort of freedom and liberty.
And so if you think about the way in which Biden,
some of his surrogates, somebody like Vice President Harris, is
(04:23):
trying to frame these issues to African American voters, it
is about white supremacy. It is about the economy, it
is about freedom, It is about this idea of do
you want to return to the days of living in
a country led by such an erratic And some people
would obviously say racist president.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, and we'll get into some of those issues, but
I am perplexed given that Trump is an overtly hostile
person to people of color, right, and he doesn't really
hide it, and he's also enabled other people to be
openly hostile. Our civic dialogue has degraded. It's translated into
pow to see positions that I don't think are in
(05:02):
the interests of communities of color. And yet all of
the kind of polling around turnout suggests that a lot
of black voters are thinking of just staying home, that
they're not going to turn out. So you would think
if Trump was that bleak of a prospect, that that
would translate into more enthusiasm for Biden. And there's quite
(05:24):
a bit. I think Iden got ninety two percent of
the black vote in twenty twenty, more or less, and
then Trump got eight percent, and it's still black voters
prefer the Democratic Party. I've got no doubt that Biden
will get a big majority of black voters again. But
it's really important, actually in swing states that black voters engage.
(05:44):
And there appears, I think, and I'm always a little
bit tentative with polls, right, but it appears that there's
this lack of enthusiasm, and I think that that could
actually have a destructive impact on the interests of black
voters if they don't turn out. So why is that,
Why is there lack of enthusiasm?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, listen, I think there was never a huge enthusiasm
for Biden, right, There was always an enthusiasm for kicking
Trump out of office. So we of course remember when
it was finally declared that there was a President Biden,
that he had won, there was dancing in the street, right.
I mean, it was like a dictator had fallen. People
were so kind of relieved to see him lose. And
(06:24):
so you think about the polls now, and I think
about Cornell Belcher, who's this great after American pollster.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I'm sure you're familiar with.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
He is a polster, he does focus groups, but he's
also very mindful of the fact that the campaign has
just begun. Right. Campaigns are built to persuade voters, to
make them enthusiastic, to give them a binary choice, and
that is what's happening now. I talked to some folks
at the Biden campaign, and listen, they are very aware
(06:53):
of what the polls showed.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
They're very aware of what you mentioned, which is that
historically it's been like sols to the polls. You know,
a couple of weeks before November, not a lot of
money put into GOTV efforts, And they're doing something very
differently this go around. They're putting a lot of money
in early and seeing those voters as voters they have
(07:18):
to persuade and mobilize, not just the voters who are
going to automatically show up. I will say this, I
do think that the polling and I hate to be
sort of a polling truther, but the polling has been
really off.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
In terms of African American voters, and off for quite
a while.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah. Like, if you think about the lead up to
twenty twenty to twenty eighteen, there's all these like, oh
my gosh, Republicans are going to get twenty percent of
African American voters, and it just it hasn't really materialized.
I think there obviously has been a shift, very very minimally,
but it is not as much as the polls suggest.
(07:55):
But again, we talk about these swing states, places like Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona,
those margins manager Georgia. Yeah, exactly all of this is
going to matter. But listen it's ramping up now. I'm
actually going to South Carolina in the lead up to
the Democratic primary, where Biden, of course will win. Kamala
(08:18):
Harris will be there. She's going to an HBCU South
Carolina state in Orangeburg, and so it'll be interesting to
see what her message is to those voters in particular, right,
young educated African American voters who have lots of discontent
with Joe Biden. And again, they were never huge Joe
Biden fans, right, there were Obamocrats, right, There is no
(08:41):
parallel to that when it comes to Biden supporters. Older
members of the African American community love Biden. My mom
is one of those folks. She's eighty six, eighty five,
and she'll be pulling the lever for Joe Biden as
well all of her church friends. But then there is
this other, younger, more working class population of African Americans
(09:02):
that have some you know, skepticism, and they're going to
need to be convinced and mobilized.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And you know, you just invoked the secret weapon of
Barack Obama, right, which has not been activated yet by Democrats,
and you know, marching Barack Obama with his myriad gifts
as an orator and a truth teller and a very
unusually charismatic politician. In all those states, maybe he would
(09:28):
campaign with Taylor Swift, and you could just have like
this twin engine, like a jet engine of voter enthusiasm push.
So it'll be interesting to see how and when and
where Obama gets activated, because I can't imagine he won't be.
But I want to come back and even within the
flaw of the polls about the percentage of votes Republicans
(09:49):
might or might not get, that data point concerns me
less than turnout does. And I just want to turn
to this in a second, because I think of twenty sixteen, right, like,
obviously Obama turns out black voters like no candidate has
I think ever, at least since in the post World
War two era. And then in twenty sixteen, you know,
black voters did not really turn out for Hillary Clinton.
(10:10):
And you could pinpoint the states in which that created
tipping points Michigan, Wisconsin, et cetera, et cetera. I was
in both states in twenty twenty talking to black voters,
and one of the things that came up repeatedly in
conversations I had with them is you know, Hillary flew
in here at the last minute, like she didn't come
to Detroit until the last week of October or something
(10:32):
like that, and they all said, we just didn't feel
we felt taken for granted. And in fact, that's how
her campaign ruled. They thought they were going to flip Texas,
Georgia and Florida, and they didn't campaign in Michigan, Wisconsin,
and Pennsylvania. And I just you know, this is possibly
this election this year, the twenty twenty four election will
(10:52):
turn on a knife's edge in terms of pluralities, is
in a handful of states, and so I wonder less
about the total vote going to the Republicans and more
about just people showing up for Democrats.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think it's a huge concern. Democrats obviously mindful of it.
And sort of add to that, you do have Republicans
campaigning for black.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Voters in a way that they haven't before.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I mean, some of it is sort of cynical, and
the ultimate goal is to have black voters stay home
not necessarily vote for Republican candidates, but you do have
some real efforts. I think it was Matt Gates, So
I hate to quote, but here I am said that,
you know, for every maybe college educated white person that
a Republican might lose, they would gain a jamal Or
I think you said.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Jose because he's such a sensitive person.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yes, exactly, and this is true, right. I mean, there
is this resorting of the parties, right, and some of
this is along class lines and some of it is
along racial lines as well. Sort of the sorting, particularly
among Hispanics, is much more noticeable going from the Democratic
Party to the Republican Party. It isn't is noticeable yet
(12:01):
among African Americans, particularly African American working class men. But
that is what's going on. And to me, I mean
sort of the argument that you hear Donald Trump making
is one I think that is in some ways wrapped
up in his masculinity, right, in his strength.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
He gave some speech recently where he was.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Like, you know, a country needs a strong man, and
I think he meant it in both ways, right, and
that does I think resonate with young men, particularly young
working class men, who have also been sort of told
that their masculinity is you know, under assault. That there's
sort of feminization. I mean, listen, if you watch ESPN,
there are all these commercials about this generation of men
(12:41):
having the lowest testosterone ever. I would know, but you know,
those are the kind of messages that I think could
resonate with any number of groups and lead either to
kind of low turnout among those groups who are Democrats,
or actually some of these groups that have traditionally been
voting for Democrats voting for Republicans, particularly Donald Trump, not
(13:01):
necessarily sort of down ballot, but just seeing in Donald
Trump somebody who they admire, the strength, the pretty wife,
the beautiful kids, whatever it is, and obviously a billionaire status, right,
I mean that is all.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Live in the dream exactly, dream, yeah, rolling like he
wants to jet like exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah. And you know, I know you're a hip hop fan, tim,
and Donald Trump was hugely popular in hip hop in
the nineties and in two thousand, just as a symbol
of bling and success and sort of the lavish life.
And so some of that stuff still resonates.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah. Russell Simmons said to me once that he called
Trump the bling, bling white man.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And you know they were welcome at marl Lago and
they'd be in the steam room and Donald show up
with a tray of orange juice. In his red tie
and blue suit, even the steam room. That's not a
subject for our discussion today. Yeah, but you know, it
is interesting that that sector of the black community venerates them.
(14:02):
But I think it's because of celebrity and wealth. Right,
it's not really about politics, right, policy at all, But
it's this image, and I think that has a lot
of attraction with working class white voters too.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
That's exactly right. I mean this kids to the personality,
the cult of personality built up around Donald Trump, which
has been so effective. You know, the idea that he's
a successful millionaire, a billionaire. Excuse me, he's not, even
though he probably is only just a millionaire. But listen,
you know this success of him and sort of the
lavishness and the gold toilets and the supermodel wife who
(14:35):
isn't really a supermodel, nor does she speak seven languages,
but never mind.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
And she's an immigrant, by the way, which is point
out he married an immigrant. Yes, yes, and some of
them are nice people. But on this issue again of
turn out. You know, just in the statistics, black voters
about twelve percent of eligible voters in twenty twenty, they
maybe fourteen percent and twenty four white voters are about
sixty eight percent of eligible voters, but end up being
(15:03):
seventy five percent of the voters who cast balance. Those
numbers are always so fascinating to me because they speak
to people's sense of how their vote empowers them or not.
It sometimes pains me to see that the black community
doesn't have as much faith in the power of their
(15:25):
vote as clearly the white community does. I think we
know the reasons for some of those things, but it's
undoubtedly at work in this election too.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think that's right. You think back to two thousand
and eight and all of the joy and pride among
African Americans that the country had elected a black man,
a black man named Barack who say Obama, And there
was a lot of hope, right. There was some just
silly hope about, you know, a post racial America, but
(15:55):
then there was real hope about conditions in black communities
being changed because of Obama being in office. And I
think you look around and that didn't really happen, right,
And even I think some of the discontent among say
thirty something black folks forty something black folks, there is
(16:16):
kind of looking back at Barack Obama with some disappointment, right,
that we put so much, African Americans will say into
having him in office, but what do we get in return?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And so then Hillary comes and obviously Trump gets in office,
and then Biden and there's obviously some discontent, specific discontent
right about promises not met, whether it's around voting rights
or student loans. So, you know, and now I think
a real sort of animating conversation for this group of voters,
(16:52):
young African Americans is what's going on with the Palestinians
and the idea. You know, Joe Biden has gone to
some events and there will be people and some of
these are African Americans who are standing upholding signs and
calling him genocide Joe. So this is a a real
kind of animating force and animating conversation that's going on,
(17:14):
and not in a good way for Joe Biden's re
election prospects among young African Americans.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
On that note, I want to take a quick break
so we can hear from our sponsor, and then we
will come right back to this conversation. I'm back with
Nia Malika Henderson, a political columnist with Bloomberg Opinion. Nia,
we were just talking about black voters disappointment with Biden,
(17:42):
and I wanted to just dig into some of the
highlight policy issues, the things that are most important to
the black community, and from a policy perspective, the things
that are fueling some of their disappointment. Voting rights and
the enforcement of voting rights and the access to the
voting booth seems to me to be something well worth
(18:03):
focusing on in this But you can dissuade me if
it's not.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
No, I think that's right. This is something that Joe
Biden campaigned on. This is something that people believed that
a needed to get done and could get done right,
particularly in the aftermath of George Floyd. Right, you remember
those sort of hidy days of the racial recogning and
this idea that the country and companies wanted to get
(18:28):
right in terms of race, and so what happened.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
For police reform.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I think that's exactly right. And so there were conversations
around that. But one of the big hopes around that
was that there would be some sort of voting rights bill.
So there was one that went to senate, it past
the House and it failed, right, it failed.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And there was also the John L.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Lewis Voting yeah, there were two separate ones, right, and
ultimately failed because Democrats. Two Democrats in particular who I
don't think will be in the Senate going forward, Christen
Cinema and Joe Manchin.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
They were too, they really democrats, right.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so you know, there's an
idea that maybe they could scuttle the philibuster just for
this bill to pass, and it turns out that they
didn't want to do that. And of course we know
the philibuster has been used to scuttle lots of civil
rights legislation historically. That's sort of the point of it. Yes,
and so that history repeating itself. So sure, there's that
(19:27):
lack of movement on that. And listen, you're gonna hear
from Biden on this again, right, You're going to hear
from Kamala Harris on this again. I'm sure when there's
another anniversary of the Bloody Sunday in March, right, they'll
make a big deal about pushing for this and voting rights.
But the fact of the matter is it didn't get done.
Nothing really has been done on police reform.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Voting rights. Yeah, black community blame the Biden White House
for not getting legislation through a Senate that has repeatedly
torpedoed any legislation that would be helpful to Biden politically.
We're in the middle of this right now. In immigration,
a bipartisan tax bill didn't get through Chuck Grassley and
I owe Republicans said, yeah, might be a good bill,
(20:13):
but it would help Biden in the election. So reason
to do this? Yeah? Yeah? And and voting rights. Are
black voters seeing past the fact and maybe the answer
to this is obvious, but are they seeing past the
fact that this is something they do and should care
deeply about, and the fact that the White House might
be sort of handcuffed because they have a racalcia tren Congress.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Right, you know, listen, I think sure, I mean, I
think there is some recognition that there is a huge
roadblock in the Republican Party in terms of advancing any
number of you know, democratic causes, progressive causes. And that'll
be part of what Biden talks about, right, and Harris
talks about when they go before these audiences, when they
talk about abortion, for instance, the idea that they need
(20:59):
a more democratic House and democratic Senate, so send more
Democrats and he can get things done. But there is
I think, and this isn't specific to the Black community.
I think there is a sense among average voters that
presidents are sort of all powerful, right. It is the
office that most people are familiar with. They don't necessarily
(21:21):
pay attention to who their local congress person is or
their senators. But there is a sense, I think among
just average voters that presidents, through their power of persuasion
and we voted for you, that you should be able
to deliver on these issues, and if you don't, it
is demoralizing. It could be a failing on your part,
and it could mean that we stay home because I
(21:43):
haven't seen.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Any deliverables for giving you my vote.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
So you know, this is a conversation that is going
to have to be had in all sorts of ways,
sort of the traditional ways of campaigning, but then on
Facebook and TikTok and the Gram and all of those
social media platforms and the View and Charlemagne the God
places like that where we're African Americans, particularly young African Americans,
are very tuned into those sites and those folks.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
He wrote a great column about Nikki Haley and her
effort to sort of I guess disappear slavery as a
factor in the Civil War. We are in the midst
of this, I think, literal whitewashing of African American history
and the Civil War perpetrated by the Republicans and the
right for political reasons, and white supremacy, white nationalism, racism,
(22:35):
and discrimination are also a paramount issue for the black community.
Do black voters see Biden in light of all of that,
acting as a you know, an agent of change and protection?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
You know, listen, I'm just going to be blunt here.
Biden is eighty one. I think she isn't someone I
think that average Black people, average people right looked to
as a pillar of strength. He's older, and some of
that is literally his age, and some of that is
probably just the burdens of the presidency and grief, quite frankly,
(23:10):
because he's had so many losses in his life. I
definitely think to a certain segment of African Americans, older
African Americans, sort of the church going set of African Americans,
they see by not necessarily as a sort of protector,
but as a good, decent human being. And that sort
(23:30):
of sounds, you know, not like high praise, but it
is high praise to just ordinary folks that he just
has a core goodness to him and a decency. You know,
there is a video that's circulating online now of him
comforting one of the families of one of the soldiers
that was just killed, and this was a black family
(23:51):
in Georgia, I believe, And just the humanity and the
connection and the sense of heart and under standing in
empathy that he displays almost more than any politician I
can think of in recent history. It's almost pastoral. I
think that goes a long way with African Americans. It
(24:12):
isn't that he's going to sort of stand between Donald Trump,
stand between the racists and protect African Americans, but there
is a sense I think that African Americans do feel
like his heart is in the right place, that he
understands African Americans and that he's on the side of
African Americans. And he's trying to go to South Carolina
and say you had my back back in twenty twenty,
(24:35):
and I'm going to have your back as well. So
I do think that goes a long way. And also
I think they're going to remind people that he was
Obama's vice president, right he was loyal to Obama. I
remember in twenty twenty hearing so many black people talk
about that, right, the idea that here he was the
right hand man to America's first black president, and it
(24:58):
was you were loyal to Obama. We're going to stand
by you and be loyal to you, Joe Biden. So
list before I came on with you today, I was thinking,
you know, maybe they should give some sort of joint
care of view in sixty minutes, right, it's sort.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Of a you know, I'm sure they will do something
or joint appearances. It's just I think that's a strength
they both can play to. And he was a model
vice president for Obama. You know, he filled the role
the way you'd want a vice president to fill it.
They I think developed a friendship unexpectedly during that presidency
because there was hostility in the beginning. You know, one
(25:30):
other sort of broad category, and I think of this
as you know, a democratic problem more generally and not
Biden specifically, but is you know the idea of broad
investment in black communities, whether it's education or infrastructure or
small business loans, healthcare, an array of different investments that
will make communities independent and thriving. And when I sometimes
(25:53):
think of this issue of promises broken or promises not kept,
it is the historical legacy of the Democrats that they
had tried to deliver some of those solutions to black communities.
And is that a thing that hangs over this as
well for the black community or do you think there's
other things that are front of mind for black.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Voters, meaning the failure to deliver or at least this
sort of effort to deliver. I think that's right. I
think that's yes. And this will also be a way
that I think Republicans will try to dissuade black people
from voting or actually have Black people vote for Republicans.
The idea that listen, you've been giving your votes to
(26:30):
Democrats for all these generations in many ways, and what
have they done. What do your schools look like, what
do your communities look like? There's still under investment in
education and infrastructure, And so I think, yes, that is
something that you hear. But then I think there's a
(26:50):
choice here, Right, Democrats say they want to do better,
Oftentimes they can't for any number of reasons. Often that
is Republicans being obstructionists, and then they're Republicans, right, who
don't even really have any ideas for improvement and investment
in these African American communities. What does Biden always say,
(27:10):
don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative.
And so I think that's the argument they'll make. But
listen again, I think it goes back to some of
that discontent around Obama. There's so much hope invested in Obama,
so much hope invested in Joe Biden, and then when
you get down to it, materially, a lot of these
(27:31):
communities haven't changed, even though listen at, the unemployment rate
is record low among African Americans, child poverty is on
the decline, more investments in HBCUs, so they do have
something to talk about, and listen. I live in a
fairly diverse, working class ish area in Washington, DC. Yeah,
and sometimes I'm like, you know, I go into Marshalls
(27:53):
and Target. It's packed, right, It's packed with folks who
are buying all sorts of things they don't need, particularly
from Marshalls. And I do think there is a sense
that and you see some of this in the consumer
confidence number, is that the economy is people are starting
to sort of feel it and that it's better than
they thought, and so those things I think will matter
as well.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
All right, let's take another quick break right there, Nia,
and then we will come back and continue this very
interesting conversation. I'm back in having a great conversation with
Nia Malika Henderson, a political columnist with Bloomberg Opinion. We're
talking about black voters and the twenty twenty four election.
(28:33):
I wanted to talk about mobilizing. We've touched on it
on and off. I was intrigued both by Ohio and
Virginia this year, where similar you know, there were differences,
but issues came up before voters around abortion, access to
reproductive healthcare, reproductive rights. Governors of both of those states
(28:54):
were trying to impose much more restrictive measures around abortion,
and black votevoters got busy and they really got activated
around that issue. And we're pivotal in both states and
not only turning back those policies, but in Virginia's case,
actually establishing a majority in the state legislature. Clearly people
(29:16):
were paying attention to the issue. Clearly people got around
those voters and made it happen. And it does offer
an example of what can be done at this microcosmic
local level with the right issue and the right organization,
and you get both great policy results and you get
a good political outcome if you're a Democrat. Is that
something that Democrats could mobilize nationally between now in November,
(29:39):
finding those themes and turning the voters out.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah. And obviously abortion is going to be a huge issue.
You have Kamala Harris taking the lead on that, framing
it as a matter of rights and freedom and equality.
And we've seen every time it's either sort of the
pro choice or pro life movement in these different states.
In some red states as you mentioned Ohio for instance,
(30:04):
the pro choice side has won. So you've got some
efforts by Democratic activists, women's rights activists trying to put
some of these ballot measures in states to galvanize voters.
You know, Democrats didn't want to talk about abortion for
years and years and years, and now they found their
voice on it. A lot of that has to do
with Kama Harris, as I mentioned, and just this idea,
(30:27):
you know, she gave a speech two weeks ago, this
idea that who do these people think they are right?
There's a kind of anger and righteous indignation. I think
that African Americans women in particular, feel this idea that
America now is less free because of the fall of
Row and some of these states that have very restrictive
(30:48):
abortion laws anti abortion laws, that America is less free
now than it was in the Roe v. Wade era. So,
you know, you look at that, and I think for
African Americans who have been on the front lines expanding rights,
this idea that you're going backwards in terms of the
kind of rights in Americans enjoy. It is an issue
(31:09):
that I think is going to come up a lot,
and it will be effective for Democrats to argue around that,
and I think it's going to be the centerpiece of
what Democrats do in terms of mobilizing voters.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know, in the context of all that, I just
want to like briefly touch on your own journey, because
I find it both I'll embarrass you, but I find
it both admirable and inspiring. Your native of South Carolina.
You went to Duke, you graduated cum laude, You got
graduate degrees from Yale and Columbia, and then a string
of high profile journalism jobs Politico, The Washington Post, CNN,
(31:42):
and now you're stuck with me, and you wrote, I'll
embarrass you further by reading your own words to you.
But you wrote a beautiful column about Black History Month.
And you're also a mother, I should add, because that's
relevant to that. You know, you're a successful black woman,
you're a successful mother, you're a successful professional in a
world that can line up against that in so many
different ways. And you're writing about the relevancy and utility
(32:05):
of Black History Month, and you wrote across the country
at colleges and corporations, diversity and inclusion initiatives are being targeted,
as are black academics. Black books are among the most banned.
The post George Floyd racial reckoning faced a huge backlash
and never quite materialized for any sustained period of time. Sure,
(32:26):
there are now bandages that match the skin of black people.
Imagine that. And Auntchemima and Uncle Ben are no more.
But is that all? And then you go on in
this very poignant, beautifully written column to talk about, well,
you look at your daughter and you look at her
world compared to yours, and that there's things in her
world you didn't have growing up, and you had things
(32:47):
your mother didn't have, and you have some optimism baked
into that. I wonder do you think that that optimism
translates into the political process for enough Black voters these days.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That's an excellent question, listen. I think optimism is at
the core of the African American experience, right, this imagining
of a world that didn't exist and fighting for that world.
You know, it's our heritage. I mean, I grew up
with parents who my father in particular, as a young man,
(33:20):
marched with doctor King. It wasn't you know, there were
a series of marches around Bloody Sunday. I think there
were three up together. He was at the second one.
So on Martin Luther King Day, I was able to
show my daughter a picture of her grandfather, who is
no longer with us, standing on the steps of Brown
Am Chapel with Martin Luther King sort of over his shoulder.
(33:41):
And I'm also, obviously, I'm a woman, I'm black. I'm
also a lesbian, right and so to see the trajectory
of the country go from being very hostile to same
sex marriage to myself being married to a woman and
having a beautiful daughter, I am definitely somebody who I'm
a prisoner of hope for lack of a better phrase,
(34:02):
and sometimes I feel, you know, naive. After I wrote
that column, I was sort of thinking of my academic
friends that were like, Oh, they're going to read this
and be like, Oh, she's very naive. But in so
many ways, I kind of wrote that for my mom,
right somebody who she was born in nineteen thirty eight.
She was born in Chicago, saw the civil rights movement,
Women's rights movement, had four kids, and really tried to
(34:25):
create a black world right and black pride in her
kids and did it in the best way she could,
but she also wanted it for my friends and neighbors
who lived in houses nearby. And the black books she
had she would often go and read to kids at school.
And so now here I am very easily being able
to kind of cultivate a black life for my kid
(34:49):
with black books and the Black History Museum, which she's
gone to a couple of times already, and black dolls
and black panther And it really is amazing to see
that that kind of journey just in my own life.
And partly I think we have to be optimistic to
honor people who have fought for where we are now
right to sort of discount the progress is to discount
(35:13):
the movement, discount the activists who pushed for this reality
we live in now.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Are things perfect? Absolutely not. Is there more work to
be done? Absolutely? But I myself can just say someone
who is closeted in college and in high school and
who's now living as an openly gay black woman and
working in what is really my dream job?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Tim, I think I told you that.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I'm so happy that it is.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah, you know, this idea in kind of political discourse,
people often kind of think of African Americans as not
being patriotic, right, And often I see black people have
pushed this country to really live up to its ideals, right,
And so in that way, you know, politically, I think
if you're somebody like Joe Biden, you're the Dems, you're
(36:00):
trying to connect that struggle.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
He goes to Mother Emmanuel as one of his first speeches,
where those nine African Americans were killed by white supremacists,
and talks about that history, talks about white supremacy, and
then talks about advancement too, and some of the deliverables
of his administration, and this idea that you know, just
the struggle continues. So listen, we'll see what African Americans
(36:24):
do in terms of coming out to vote. I will
also say this, I think every cycle Life covered it
is the exact same story. Black voters. Are they going
to turn out based? I mean literally even Obama right, Obama,
by the time he was standing for reelection, had come
out for same sex marriage, and all these stories about
is this going to hamper his ability to get African
(36:47):
American voters to turn out for him?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Obviously it did not.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
And so this is listen, if you go back every election,
there is this question, and we'll just see how it
turns out.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
You mentioned Kamala he earlier. You mentioned Biden talking directly
to Black voters and the aspirations and dreams you've had
as a person. And I always think in these elections
about connecting hopes and dreams to the practical battle on
the streets of the hard work of winning votes. And
we could do a whole episode about Kamala Harris, and
I'm going to avoid that here because we'd go on
(37:19):
and on, but only in the context of whether or
not the Democratic Party is good at recruiting, training, and
getting exposure for candidates of color, black candidates or any
candidate of color. And I think one of the mysteries
to me is I think the Republicans are very good
structurally at messaging, recruitment, and talent development. I think some
(37:43):
of the talents they develop have become a freak show,
but that's the direction they chose to do some of
their talent development. But is the Democratic Party structured in
a way now where it is recruiting bright prospects and
getting them the training and exposure they need to be
great candidates.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Assuming you're meaning African American candidates, right, listen. I think
the big barrier to that is America.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
It's sort of the anti blackness that is part of
our heritage as Americans. It is incredibly hard for an
African American mayor in Birmingham, Alabama or Tuskegee, Alabama to
go on and win that state statewide, right because of racism.
Quite frankly, there have been moments I remember post Obama, Gweneifel,
(38:31):
who I'm sure you knew, wrote a great book that
really was this idea that there were going to be
these other candidates in the wake of Obama that would
reach heights in American politics. Kama Harris was one of them.
I think check mark the prediction there was a good one.
But a lot of those folks in that book just
(38:51):
couldn't break through, right, breakthrough from going to Congress to
the House to the Senate, for instance, from a mayoral
position to a higher position. So I don't even know
that it's the Democratic Party's fault. I think the Democratic
Party is faced with the reality that it's just hard
(39:13):
to break through these kind of barriers that limit black
aspiration in other areas. Do the same thing in the
political arena, you know. Now you think about the mayor
or the governor, I should say, of Maryland, Wes Moore,
can he go anywhere? Right beyond that? Is there a
(39:34):
next Obama? For instance? I think that's sort of at
the root of it, right Who is the next Obama?
I wrote a story years ago when I was at
the Washington Post, and the title is something like, who
is the next Obama? Nobody because of just the cynicism
I think around, how do you get a black candidate
(39:55):
who's able to be as gifted as somebody as Obama was,
who can resonate with white voters and black voters and
Latino voters listen. I would amend that now, and I
would say I think one of the most gifted black
politicians on the scene now is Raphael Warnock in Georgia,
the Senator of Georgia, who's able to do this amazing
(40:17):
thing which has become Senator of Georgia over and over again.
And so I think he has this real great combination
of just being able to relate to regular folks of
all stripes in Georgia and then the sort.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Of power of his oration.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
He obviously has a background in divinity and preaching.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
So we'll see in watching this election, this election cycle
this year, what are you learning that you didn't know before?
What has the big aha ben for you?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Thus far?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
I am constantly amazed at how engaged voters are. I mean,
in some ways this sounds like a cliche, but I
think voters are catching all on to the stakes, right,
And I think part of that was what they saw
in twenty sixteen, right. And so you see this sort
of level of engagement with the candidates with policy in
(41:13):
a way that I think always surprises me. And talking
to voters. I did listen to a focus group of
Trump to Biden voters and they had been paying attention
not only to the sort of gaffes of Donald Trump
or Joe Biden, but you know, kind of policy issues, right,
And so I think it's partly because people saw what
happened with Donald Trump. People saw what that meant for
(41:35):
foreign policy, for the Supreme Court, for any number of
policy issues, and so now they're engaged in a way
that they weren't before. I think the Georgia elections also
showed that. And so you know, when I hear people say, oh,
voters might stay home and they're not going to be enthused,
I tend to think they will be. Given the past
(41:56):
couple of elections that we've seen the past few cycles
post to twenty sixteen, you do see I think a
level of engagement and if not enthusiasm, but at least
a recognition that every vote counts, because we've seen many
elections where it's come down to the very very margins,
and I think twenty twenty four is going to be
(42:17):
the exact same way.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
We're out of time. Nia, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Thank you so much, Tim, This was great.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Nia. Malika Henderson is a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. You
can find her columns on the Bloomberg Opinion website and
the Bloomberg Terminal. You can also find her on Twitter
at Nia Malika h Here at crash Course, we believe
that collisions can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising, and always instructive.
(42:45):
In today's crash Course, I learned that there might be
more hope for black turnout in the twenty twenty four
election than I previously believe. But I'm also a cynic,
so I'm going to adopt a weight and see attitude.
What did you learn? We'd love to hear from you.
You can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion handle at Opinion
or me at Tim O'Brien using the hashtag Bloomberg Crash Course.
(43:09):
You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening
right now and leave us a review. It helps more
people find the show. This episode was produced by the
indispensable and highly motivated Ana Mazarakis and me. Our supervising
producer is Magnus Hendrickson, and we had editing help from Sagebauman,
Jeff Grocott, Mike Nizza, and Christine Benden. Bilard Blake Maples
(43:32):
is our sound engineering and our original theme song was
composed by Luis Gara. I'm Tim O'Brien. We'll be back
next week with another crash course.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.